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Pension Age to Rise because of Brexit

By *LCC OP Couple over a year ago

Cambridge

So it looks as though the pension age is going to have to rise significantly due to reduced immigration as a result of Brexit.

Less immigrants means less tax payers supporting our retired population. To balance that we will need to delay the pension age for millions of people.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/12/brexit-migration-cuts-could-push-state-pension-age/?WT.mc_id=tmgliveapp_androidshare_AnXNR39j6Xcf

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Seems to me all you do is look for things to blame on Brexit

Pension age was rising way before the referendum

You come across as a very sad bitter little man who cant accept the result of the referendum

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By *is_Collared_SubWoman over a year ago

London

Already planning my own exit route from this country. I imagine many other higher rate tax payers are having the same thoughts as me.

Whatever pension I have I'll be extracting out of the country with the rest of them, thus reducing the economy further.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

By the time i retire in the 2040s i expect nothing to be left in the state pension pot.Pension age wil be 85 or more.

I have property that should support me.Many will have to work til they die though.

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By *oi_LucyCouple over a year ago

Barbados

On a related, but more immediate note, an open letter from 30 major food and drink industry bodies has just warned that the food and rinks industry is facing its worst shortage in labour since 2004 due to drop in EU nationals which account for 90% of the workforce in that industry:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/13/uk-labour-shortages-brexit-as-eu-worker-numbers-fall

-Matt

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By *LCC OP Couple over a year ago

Cambridge

"Seems to me all you do is look for things to blame on Brexit

Pension age was rising way before the referendum

You come across as a very sad bitter little man who cant accept the result of the referendum

It's headline news everyday! You must completely ignore all news if you are not seeing it, and this is from the Telegraph, a Leave supporting paper.

I see you completely dismiss the article and dedicated more words to attacking me, rather than debating the issue. If the thread isn't of interest to you, you dont need to comment on it.

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By *oi_LucyCouple over a year ago

Barbados

"Already planning my own exit route from this country. I imagine many other higher rate tax payers are having the same thoughts as me.

Whatever pension I have I'll be extracting out of the country with the rest of them, thus reducing the economy further."

...but exit to where? Seems like the world in general is going to hell in a handbasket at the moment.

-Matt

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

More automation and robots mean less people are needed in some types of jobs.

Probably be less jobs because of this.

Maybe the company should pay tax on the robots they have.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

More automation and robots mean less people are needed in some types of jobs.

Probably be less jobs because of this.

Maybe the company should pay tax on the robots they have.

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By *estivalMan over a year ago

borehamwood

Pension age was 65 when i first started work since then my pension age has risen twice and that was before brexit.ive known for years i will have to work till i drop dead.seems to me people are just blaming everything on brexit now.the worlds been going to shit for the last twenty years or more.has got more to do with people at the top wanting more and more.gave up voting years ago as no matter who is in power the rich get richer and the poor dont get a fucking thing

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"More automation and robots mean less people are needed in some types of jobs.

Probably be less jobs because of this.

Maybe the company should pay tax on the robots they have.

"
yeah the robots are comming 30% of UK jobs will be automated by 2030s.Robots dont pay tax though.You can tax the buiseness that are automated to make up the short fall in revenue,but this will dti2ve them out of the country.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Pension age was 65 when i first started work since then my pension age has risen twice and that was before brexit.ive known for years i will have to work till i drop dead.seems to me people are just blaming everything on brexit now.the worlds been going to shit for the last twenty years or more.has got more to do with people at the top wanting more and more.gave up voting years ago as no matter who is in power the rich get richer and the poor dont get a fucking thing"
The poor will be surplus to requirements by mid century. I can see them getting a universal basic income.As their labour isnt required anymore.Unless they can diversify into tech fields.

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By *LCC OP Couple over a year ago

Cambridge

So a bad situation is being made worse by Brexit then.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I think its important to keep up with all possible positive and negative factors where Brexit is the driving factor in the run up to the actual crunch time of leaving.

No point in only focusing on just one side or the other.

Though to be honest the forcasts are mainly going heavily in one direction on the negative side at the moment due to so much uncertainty.

Only after any deal is struck will we have any possibility to see if any posatives can catch up and over take the negatives.

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By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

Pension age won't be rising for me as I have a private pension. It's doing very well at the moment due to the rise of the FTSE 100 so many people with private pensions could potentially retire earlier than planned if the FTSE 100 keeps performing the way it has since Brexit.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Pension age won't be rising for me as I have a private pension. It's doing very well at the moment due to the rise of the FTSE 100 so many people with private pensions could potentially retire earlier than planned if the FTSE 100 keeps performing the way it has since Brexit.

"
Yep i will be fine with property here and abroad and investments. Looks you'll do great .What about the 50% of UK citizens with no pension. ?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Seems to me all you do is look for things to blame on Brexit

Pension age was rising way before the referendum

You come across as a very sad bitter little man who cant accept the result of the referendum

It's headline news everyday! You must completely ignore all news if you are not seeing it, and this is from the Telegraph, a Leave supporting paper.

I see you completely dismiss the article and dedicated more words to attacking me, rather than debating the issue. If the thread isn't of interest to you, you dont need to comment on it."

No need to read the article its a fact pensionable age was rising well before the referendum

And its not a personal attcack but an observation of your posts since the referendum

Do you deny the pension age was rising before Brexit then

Do you deny all you do is scan the papers and news services for everything bad about Brexit and then start a post about it

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

So a bad situation is being made worse by Brexit then."

See !!!! Cant help yourself can you

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

I work in the state pension.... and this story is a stretch at best

Pension ages will go up... but brexit isn't the reason why

The truth is that the people who come into the country are the young... so they come in and contribute more as a net than the older people who leave to retire abroad

Brexit may compound that issue and that may be a talking point

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I work in the state pension.... and this story is a stretch at best

Pension ages will go up... but brexit isn't the reason why

The truth is that the people who come into the country are the young... so they come in and contribute more as a net than the older people who leave to retire abroad

Brexit may compound that issue and that may be a talking point "
So what we need is a baby boom to alter the demographics. Maybe offering free child care will help kick start people reproducing. Increasing immigration is off the table for the next decade .Or stop pensions going abroad and you could also lose the right to NHS care if you live abroad for more than a few years.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"So it looks as though the pension age is going to have to rise significantly due to reduced immigration as a result of Brexit.

Less immigrants means less tax payers supporting our retired population. To balance that we will need to delay the pension age for millions of people.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/12/brexit-migration-cuts-could-push-state-pension-age/?WT.mc_id=tmgliveapp_androidshare_AnXNR39j6Xcf"

What part of "Could" do you not understand, you are making it out as a certainty,

aliens "could" also invade the earth

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By *obka3Couple over a year ago

bournemouth

What we need to do is to "persuade" the 1.5 million unemployed to work and maybe raise wages in some of these jobs, I dont recall any member of the leave side saying that any non brit was being kicked out or stopping any immigration if we need workers we need workers so its a non story

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By *LCC OP Couple over a year ago

Cambridge

"What we need to do is to "persuade" the 1.5 million unemployed to work and maybe raise wages in some of these jobs, I dont recall any member of the leave side saying that any non brit was being kicked out or stopping any immigration if we need workers we need workers so its a non story "

So you didn't see the conservative manifesto that said about reducing immigration to less than 100,000?

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By *LCC OP Couple over a year ago

Cambridge

It's fairly simple, you need X number of working people to support someone who is retired.

If you reduce the number of working people by reducing the immigration figures, whilst at the same time having a rising number of retirees due to demographics, you either need to raise taxes, or reduce pensioner benefits, or reduce the number of pensioners by changing the pension age.

Does anyone disagree with that?

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By *obka3Couple over a year ago

bournemouth

"It's fairly simple, you need X number of working people to support someone who is retired.

Does anyone disagree with that? "

Even in your strange world you can see that reducing immigration to 100,000 is not the same as sending people home or stopping any new immirants comming in, the pension age will have to rise regardless as the baby boomers age and with much improved health and with millions expected to live into the high 80's we all have a choice save more or work longer. Have you ever research how any years the average pensioner now live beyond retirement compared to when it was first introduced, that is where the problem lies, would you rather retire at 65 and die at 73 or retire at 70 and live to 85?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"It's fairly simple, you need X number of working people to support someone who is retired.

Does anyone disagree with that? "

and reduce the level of immigration because before long they become pensioners. Do you agree with that?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"It's fairly simple, you need X number of working people to support someone who is retired.

Does anyone disagree with that? "
Not me its common sense.The goverment will tinker with figures.They'll move money out of NHS into social care and councils will increase council tax to make up short fall.Still it wont be anywhere close to whats required.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"On a related, but more immediate note, an open letter from 30 major food and drink industry bodies has just warned that the food and rinks industry is facing its worst shortage in labour since 2004 due to drop in EU nationals which account for 90% of the workforce in that industry:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/13/uk-labour-shortages-brexit-as-eu-worker-numbers-fall

-Matt"

can we not train Brittish ppl to do these jobs !!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/13/uk-labour-shortages-brexit-as-eu-worker-numbers-fall

-Matt

can we not train Brittish ppl to do these jobs !!"

what was the 'problem' in 2004?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/13/uk-labour-shortages-brexit-as-eu-worker-numbers-fall

-Matt

can we not train Brittish ppl to do these jobs !!"

The problem is the UK mentality to the benefit system. Why work in a low paid job when you can just sit on your arse and get money for nothing.

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By *oi_LucyCouple over a year ago

Barbados

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/13/uk-labour-shortages-brexit-as-eu-worker-numbers-fall

-Matt

can we not train Brittish ppl to do these jobs !!"

That keeps getting touted as the answer to staffing shortages in various sectors. Great... but why aren't we? What are we going to do tomorrow to train those people that we were not doing yesterday? Is it a training issue? Is it a cultural issue? Is it a societal issue? Is it a financial issue?

-Matt

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By *oi_LucyCouple over a year ago

Barbados

So you didn't see the conservative manifesto that said about reducing immigration to less than 100,000? "

Bear in mind May was directly questioned about this in the select committee. She was asked about if the reduction in immigration was at odds with the requirements for more workers, and if so which one would take priority. Despite being asked many times, she would not answer.

Oh, and that will be the target she missed so badly as Home Secretary.

And the will be the manifesto in which Tories states that they would ‘we will safeguard British interests in the single market’. Which is Tory-speak for 'walk away from it'.

-Matt

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/13/uk-labour-shortages-brexit-as-eu-worker-numbers-fall

-Matt

can we not train Brittish ppl to do these jobs !!

The problem is the UK mentality to the benefit system. Why work in a low paid job when you can just sit on your arse and get money for nothing."

This is very true, and we need to break that mentality.

Anyone who gets benefits should be paired with a job that suits their skill set.

Also the person who is paired with that job should be means tested (properly) ro see what their outgoings and incomings would be.

If most of the people who are on benefits state the wage is to low for them to give up benefits then the wage can be topped up using those same benefits,

Surely that would be cheaper than paying full benefits to them.

Also proper apprenticeships should be re introduced for school leavers and get them away from the faux uni degrees.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/13/uk-labour-shortages-brexit-as-eu-worker-numbers-fall

-Matt

can we not train Brittish ppl to do these jobs !!

The problem is the UK mentality to the benefit system. Why work in a low paid job when you can just sit on your arse and get money for nothing."
I cant blame anyone not going to work for an extra 50 quid compared to benefits.You need to increase the minimum wage to alter this mentality. Or cut benefits.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Your fervent hard on for mass immigration and Left wing colonialism from the 3rd world using the 'aging society' argument is actually illegal in business. lt's essentially a pyramid scheme in with you must import and ever increasing size of immigrant waves (who become old too : an amazing fact) to take care of the previous elderly waves is absolutely untenable and highlights that you are motivated by dogma rather than outcome.

l am at the point that part of me wants your vision of Britain and European culture to come true so you have to live in the 3rd world cesspool it will create.

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By *unandbuckCouple over a year ago

Sheffield

The report says that if we don't continue receiving 600,000 immigrants per year, then the retirement age 'could' be pushed up by 18 months as a result.

Further, that is for sometime currently under 40, by the time they reach 66-67.

So, OP, presumably, your preferred option is to just stick with what we've got and the additional 16.2 Million people will pay the pensions, and everything else will be fine and dandy?

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By *oo hotCouple over a year ago

North West

"Your fervent hard on for mass immigration and Left wing colonialism from the 3rd world using the 'aging society' argument is actually illegal in business. lt's essentially a pyramid scheme in with you must import and ever increasing size of immigrant waves (who become old too : an amazing fact) to take care of the previous elderly waves is absolutely untenable and highlights that you are motivated by dogma rather than outcome.

l am at the point that part of me wants your vision of Britain and European culture to come true so you have to live in the 3rd world cesspool it will create. "

Not all economic migrants stay and dig roots. I was an economic migrant to an EU country in the early 1990's and stayed for ten years (aged 30-40). Of all the Brits my age(ish) when went at the same time only a couple remain and they are the ones who got matrried to locals and/or created very successful businesses.

I don't have facts and figures to back up my assumptions but I would suspect that many, young migrants in the service sector will similarly return home at some stage unless they do very well and then why would we as a country not want them to stay?

The hysteria created in the Mail, Express etc and the words used by people like you, only look to exarcebate a problem that isn't there. "Third word cesspit", "waves of migrants" - these expressions exist only to inflame emotions and are just not representative of what is actually happening.

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By *estivalMan over a year ago

borehamwood

So a bad situation is being made worse by Brexit then."

dont think brexit is making it worse or better have no doubt things will get worse wether we are in the e.u or not

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By *osieWoman over a year ago

Wembley

"More automation and robots mean less people are needed in some types of jobs.

Probably be less jobs because of this.

Maybe the company should pay tax on the robots they have.

And that is the real reason for unskilled and semi-skilled jobs disappearing. Nobody needs a guy standing besides an assembly line putting in ten bolts and tightening nuts around those

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By *LCC OP Couple over a year ago

Cambridge

"Seems to me all you do is look for things to blame on Brexit

Pension age was rising way before the referendum

You come across as a very sad bitter little man who cant accept the result of the referendum

It's headline news everyday! You must completely ignore all news if you are not seeing it, and this is from the Telegraph, a Leave supporting paper.

I see you completely dismiss the article and dedicated more words to attacking me, rather than debating the issue. If the thread isn't of interest to you, you dont need to comment on it.

No need to read the article its a fact pensionable age was rising well before the referendum

And its not a personal attcack but an observation of your posts since the referendum

Do you deny the pension age was rising before Brexit then

Do you deny all you do is scan the papers and news services for everything bad about Brexit and then start a post about it

Of course, why would you possibly want to read something that might challenge your world view? Is it really so fragile that reading one article might bring it crashing down.

Like I said, no need to scan the papers, bad news Brexit stories are headline news across all media outlets. The Telegraph was a pro Leave paper and even they are running these stories day in day out.

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By *LCC OP Couple over a year ago

Cambridge

"It's fairly simple, you need X number of working people to support someone who is retired.

Does anyone disagree with that?

I haven't said that reducing immigration to 100,000 is the same as stopping it, why are you saying that I did?

The point is, the more its reduced, the quicker the pensionable age rises, or the higher the taxes rises will have to go.

Surely everyone understands that there is a certain ratio of workers to pensioners.

If the number of pensioners increases, then more workers are needed to support them. Right?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"It's fairly simple, you need X number of working people to support someone who is retired.

Does anyone disagree with that?

I haven't said that reducing immigration to 100,000 is the same as stopping it, why are you saying that I did?

The point is, the more its reduced, the quicker the pensionable age rises, or the higher the taxes rises will have to go.

Surely everyone understands that there is a certain ratio of workers to pensioners.

If the number of pensioners increases, then more workers are needed to support them. Right? "

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By *LCC OP Couple over a year ago

Cambridge

"More automation and robots mean less people are needed in some types of jobs.

Probably be less jobs because of this.

Maybe the company should pay tax on the robots they have.

And that is the real reason for unskilled and semi-skilled jobs disappearing. Nobody needs a guy standing besides an assembly line putting in ten bolts and tightening nuts around those"

Although automation will account for some job losses, I would say that globalisation causes a lot of those unskilled or semi-skilled jobs to move overseas. It's not as though there is a world shortage of unskilled workers, India and China have hundreds of millions of them.

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By *LCC OP Couple over a year ago

Cambridge

Surely everyone understands that there is a certain ratio of workers to pensioners.

If the number of pensioners increases, then more workers are needed to support them. Right?

no"

No? So explain it to me then. Let's for arguments sake say we need 10 workers for every 1 pensioner.

If more people retire, and we now only have 7 workers to each pensioner, how will that pensioner receive the same level of support, without those workers paying a higher percentage of taxes?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I work in the state pension.... and this story is a stretch at best

Pension ages will go up... but brexit isn't the reason why

The truth is that the people who come into the country are the young... so they come in and contribute more as a net than the older people who leave to retire abroad

Brexit may compound that issue and that may be a talking point So what we need is a baby boom to alter the demographics. Maybe offering free child care will help kick start people reproducing. Increasing immigration is off the table for the next decade .Or stop pensions going abroad and you could also lose the right to NHS care if you live abroad for more than a few years."
I can answer that question! Fact although I have paid UK tax & NI contributions - sufficient for a full UK pension & never claimed any benefits I moved to France 3 year's ago and I am now in the French system. I do not qualify for any treatment on the NHS I have to take travel insurance when I go back to UK. In France I pay 24% NI plus tax plus I have a private health insurance to cover my medical care. Having paid fully into the UK system and taken nothing out and having removed myself from the UK - the state has made a profit on me. Most UK citizens are retired in Europe and that represents a saving of £4300 per retiree. Depending on what happens with regards to settlement agreements the UK could have around 1,000,000 pensioners returning -a potential cost to NHS of £43,000,000 per annum. That will really screw things up.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Surely everyone understands that there is a certain ratio of workers to pensioners.

If the number of pensioners increases, then more workers are needed to support them. Right?

No? So explain it to me then. Let's for arguments sake say we need 10 workers for every 1 pensioner.

If more people retire, and we now only have 7 workers to each pensioner, how will that pensioner receive the same level of support, without those workers paying a higher percentage of taxes? "

You are assuming that they pay taxes. If all new workers were earnin £50,000 plus or whatever you might have a point but people on minimum wage probably don't cover their own needs through taxation nevermind that of pensioners, so no, the answer is not simply more workers

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By *obka3Couple over a year ago

bournemouth

Surely everyone understands that there is a certain ratio of workers to pensioners.

If the number of pensioners increases, then more workers are needed to support them. Right?

No? So explain it to me then. Let's for arguments sake say we need 10 workers for every 1 pensioner.

If more people retire, and we now only have 7 workers to each pensioner, how will that pensioner receive the same level of support, without those workers paying a higher percentage of taxes? "

Then in 20 years we will need a few million more and then in 20 more etc etc by the end of 2099 we could need 12o million people in this country on your logic, just what the world needs is ever increasing population, NOT again you havent answered the question people are living longer would you rather retire at 65 and die at 73 or retire at 70 and die at 85 ?

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By *LCC OP Couple over a year ago

Cambridge

Surely everyone understands that there is a certain ratio of workers to pensioners.

If the number of pensioners increases, then more workers are needed to support them. Right?

No? So explain it to me then. Let's for arguments sake say we need 10 workers for every 1 pensioner.

If more people retire, and we now only have 7 workers to each pensioner, how will that pensioner receive the same level of support, without those workers paying a higher percentage of taxes?

You know capitalism and the history of the human race is all a pyramid scheme right? Is this suddenly coming as a shock to you?

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By *LCC OP Couple over a year ago

Cambridge

"NOT again you havent answered the question people are living longer would you rather retire at 65 and die at 73 or retire at 70 and die at 85 ? "

People don't have much choice over when they die, or when they retire.

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By *osieWoman over a year ago

Wembley

"More automation and robots mean less people are needed in some types of jobs.

Probably be less jobs because of this.

Maybe the company should pay tax on the robots they have.

And that is the real reason for unskilled and semi-skilled jobs disappearing. Nobody needs a guy standing besides an assembly line putting in ten bolts and tightening nuts around those

There cheap labour is even cheaper than robots so yes, some of these jobs do move there

In Western Europe, where manufacturing still exists, it is largely using technology rather than skilled/semi-skilled labour. People go off sick, want more money, better conditions, etc. Robots don't have these issues

If we had uncontrolled immigration from India and China and got rid of our employment and health & safety regulations, the robots will end up on the scrap-heap

So, as the previous poster suggested, increase taxes on these conglomerates. Treat each robot as a person and the 'employer' pays NI, etc

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By *LCC OP Couple over a year ago

Cambridge

Surely everyone understands that there is a certain ratio of workers to pensioners.

If the number of pensioners increases, then more workers are needed to support them. Right?

No? So explain it to me then. Let's for arguments sake say we need 10 workers for every 1 pensioner.

If more people retire, and we now only have 7 workers to each pensioner, how will that pensioner receive the same level of support, without those workers paying a higher percentage of taxes?

So what is the answer? How can 7 workers support 1 pension to the same standard as 10 workers to 1 pensioner without raising taxes?

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By *LCC OP Couple over a year ago

Cambridge

"More automation and robots mean less people are needed in some types of jobs.

Probably be less jobs because of this.

Maybe the company should pay tax on the robots they have.

And that is the real reason for unskilled and semi-skilled jobs disappearing. Nobody needs a guy standing besides an assembly line putting in ten bolts and tightening nuts around those

There cheap labour is even cheaper than robots so yes, some of these jobs do move there

If we had uncontrolled immigration from India and China and got rid of our employment and health & safety regulations, the robots will end up on the scrap-heap

So, as the previous poster suggested, increase taxes on these conglomerates. Treat each robot as a person and the 'employer' pays NI, etc "

Why do they need to come here to make the item? They can already make it over there with low wages, low regulation, and poor H&S regs.

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By *osieWoman over a year ago

Wembley

"More automation and robots mean less people are needed in some types of jobs.

Probably be less jobs because of this.

Maybe the company should pay tax on the robots they have.

And that is the real reason for unskilled and semi-skilled jobs disappearing. Nobody needs a guy standing besides an assembly line putting in ten bolts and tightening nuts around those

There cheap labour is even cheaper than robots so yes, some of these jobs do move there

If we had uncontrolled immigration from India and China and got rid of our employment and health & safety regulations, the robots will end up on the scrap-heap

So, as the previous poster suggested, increase taxes on these conglomerates. Treat each robot as a person and the 'employer' pays NI, etc

Why do they need to come here to make the item? They can already make it over there with low wages, low regulation, and poor H&S regs."

And they do. And we then pay to import those items, which are mostly sub-standard

Better to either increase taxes on corporations here or even better still, increase the skill levels so that people here are gainfully employed, designing better robots

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Surely everyone understands that there is a certain ratio of workers to pensioners.

If the number of pensioners increases, then more workers are needed to support them. Right?

No? So explain it to me then. Let's for arguments sake say we need 10 workers for every 1 pensioner.

If more people retire, and we now only have 7 workers to each pensioner, how will that pensioner receive the same level of support, without those workers paying a higher percentage of taxes?

So what is the answer? How can 7 workers support 1 pension to the same standard as 10 workers to 1 pensioner without raising taxes? "

You've got to raise taxes for now but a scheme has to be put in place so that a higher percentage of wages goes towards your pension. How about if people coming to this country had to pay say 20% of their earnings into the pension pot otherwise they wouldn't be allowed to work. Fair?

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By *obka3Couple over a year ago

bournemouth

"NOT again you havent answered the question people are living longer would you rather retire at 65 and die at 73 or retire at 70 and die at 85 ?

People don't have much choice over when they die, or when they retire. "

Can always tell when you no you have lost the argumment you try to deflect the question. So you think from your other answer that the world can sustain uncontrolled population growth, well it cant and we have to control numbers or our decendents will end up fighting over the last few drops of water and food, pensions will be the least of their worries

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By *oi_LucyCouple over a year ago

Barbados

"Better to either increase taxes on corporations here or even better still, increase the skill levels so that people here are gainfully employed, designing better robots

Shame May is doing neither of those things.

-Matt

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The key word in that headline is "could" it's pure speculation I don't think anyone knows what will happen post Brexit, but back to the topic of the article it seems a moot point when there are still high numbers of the unemployed; a great number of which are on benefits and are unemployed because they choose to be and choose to live a life on benefits.

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By *LCC OP Couple over a year ago

Cambridge

"NOT again you havent answered the question people are living longer would you rather retire at 65 and die at 73 or retire at 70 and die at 85 ?

People don't have much choice over when they die, or when they retire.

When are you going to die? I don't know when I'm going to die, have you already got your death planned?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *LCC OP Couple over a year ago

Cambridge

Surely everyone understands that there is a certain ratio of workers to pensioners.

If the number of pensioners increases, then more workers are needed to support them. Right?

No? So explain it to me then. Let's for arguments sake say we need 10 workers for every 1 pensioner.

If more people retire, and we now only have 7 workers to each pensioner, how will that pensioner receive the same level of support, without those workers paying a higher percentage of taxes?

So what is the answer? How can 7 workers support 1 pension to the same standard as 10 workers to 1 pensioner without raising taxes?

Right, so you DO need to raise taxes then. Like I said.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Surely everyone understands that there is a certain ratio of workers to pensioners.

If the number of pensioners increases, then more workers are needed to support them. Right?

No? So explain it to me then. Let's for arguments sake say we need 10 workers for every 1 pensioner.

If more people retire, and we now only have 7 workers to each pensioner, how will that pensioner receive the same level of support, without those workers paying a higher percentage of taxes?

So what is the answer? How can 7 workers support 1 pension to the same standard as 10 workers to 1 pensioner without raising taxes?

Right, so you DO need to raise taxes then. Like I said. "

no, you said you need more workers.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *osieWoman over a year ago

Wembley

"NOT again you havent answered the question people are living longer would you rather retire at 65 and die at 73 or retire at 70 and die at 85 ?

People don't have much choice over when they die, or when they retire.

When are you going to die? I don't know when I'm going to die, have you already got your death planned? "

Individuals don't know the exact hour of their death but average life spans in Western Europe are on the increase and are documented. It is also how insurance companies work out premiums. They are not in cahoots with the grim reaper, although sometimes it appears as if they were

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By *osieWoman over a year ago

Wembley

Surely everyone understands that there is a certain ratio of workers to pensioners.

If the number of pensioners increases, then more workers are needed to support them. Right?

No? So explain it to me then. Let's for arguments sake say we need 10 workers for every 1 pensioner.

If more people retire, and we now only have 7 workers to each pensioner, how will that pensioner receive the same level of support, without those workers paying a higher percentage of taxes?

So what is the answer? How can 7 workers support 1 pension to the same standard as 10 workers to 1 pensioner without raising taxes?

Right, so you DO need to raise taxes then. Like I said. "

You said, "more workers are needed"

"If the number of pensioners increases, then more workers are needed to support them. Right?"

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *obka3Couple over a year ago

bournemouth

"NOT again you havent answered the question people are living longer would you rather retire at 65 and die at 73 or retire at 70 and die at 85 ?

People don't have much choice over when they die, or when they retire.

When are you going to die? I don't know when I'm going to die, have you already got your death planned? "

Yep I'm going to die about three minutes after my heart stops

. I take it you cant think of an decent answer then, you know one that contributes to the discussion

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *LCC OP Couple over a year ago

Cambridge

Surely everyone understands that there is a certain ratio of workers to pensioners.

If the number of pensioners increases, then more workers are needed to support them. Right?

No? So explain it to me then. Let's for arguments sake say we need 10 workers for every 1 pensioner.

If more people retire, and we now only have 7 workers to each pensioner, how will that pensioner receive the same level of support, without those workers paying a higher percentage of taxes?

So what is the answer? How can 7 workers support 1 pension to the same standard as 10 workers to 1 pensioner without raising taxes?

Right, so you DO need to raise taxes then. Like I said.

You said, "more workers are needed"

"If the number of pensioners increases, then more workers are needed to support them. Right?""

Did I also say "you either need to raise taxes, or reduce pensioner benefits, or reduce the number of pensioners by changing the pension age."?

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By *LCC OP Couple over a year ago

Cambridge

"NOT again you havent answered the question people are living longer would you rather retire at 65 and die at 73 or retire at 70 and die at 85 ?

People don't have much choice over when they die, or when they retire.

When are you going to die? I don't know when I'm going to die, have you already got your death planned?

Yep I'm going to die about three minutes after my heart stops

. I take it you cant think of an decent answer then, you know one that contributes to the discussion "

Is your question related to a political decision? Unless you are going to suggest euthanasia, then no it's not.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *osieWoman over a year ago

Wembley

Surely everyone understands that there is a certain ratio of workers to pensioners.

If the number of pensioners increases, then more workers are needed to support them. Right?

No? So explain it to me then. Let's for arguments sake say we need 10 workers for every 1 pensioner.

If more people retire, and we now only have 7 workers to each pensioner, how will that pensioner receive the same level of support, without those workers paying a higher percentage of taxes?

So what is the answer? How can 7 workers support 1 pension to the same standard as 10 workers to 1 pensioner without raising taxes?

Right, so you DO need to raise taxes then. Like I said.

You said, "more workers are needed"

"If the number of pensioners increases, then more workers are needed to support them. Right?"

Did I also say "you either need to raise taxes, or reduce pensioner benefits, or reduce the number of pensioners by changing the pension age."?"

Possibly; but you did certainly say that "more workers are needed"

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *LCC OP Couple over a year ago

Cambridge

Surely everyone understands that there is a certain ratio of workers to pensioners.

If the number of pensioners increases, then more workers are needed to support them. Right?

No? So explain it to me then. Let's for arguments sake say we need 10 workers for every 1 pensioner.

If more people retire, and we now only have 7 workers to each pensioner, how will that pensioner receive the same level of support, without those workers paying a higher percentage of taxes?

So what is the answer? How can 7 workers support 1 pension to the same standard as 10 workers to 1 pensioner without raising taxes?

Right, so you DO need to raise taxes then. Like I said.

You said, "more workers are needed"

"If the number of pensioners increases, then more workers are needed to support them. Right?"

Did I also say "you either need to raise taxes, or reduce pensioner benefits, or reduce the number of pensioners by changing the pension age."?

Possibly; but you did certainly say that "more workers are needed"

Yes, unless you want to pay more tax, or change the pensionable age.

Most people dont want to pay more tax. Most people dont want to work longer.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *osieWoman over a year ago

Wembley

Surely everyone understands that there is a certain ratio of workers to pensioners.

If the number of pensioners increases, then more workers are needed to support them. Right?

No? So explain it to me then. Let's for arguments sake say we need 10 workers for every 1 pensioner.

If more people retire, and we now only have 7 workers to each pensioner, how will that pensioner receive the same level of support, without those workers paying a higher percentage of taxes?

So what is the answer? How can 7 workers support 1 pension to the same standard as 10 workers to 1 pensioner without raising taxes?

Right, so you DO need to raise taxes then. Like I said.

You said, "more workers are needed"

"If the number of pensioners increases, then more workers are needed to support them. Right?"

Did I also say "you either need to raise taxes, or reduce pensioner benefits, or reduce the number of pensioners by changing the pension age."?

Possibly; but you did certainly say that "more workers are needed"

Yes, unless you want to pay more tax, or change the pensionable age.

Most people dont want to pay more tax. Most people dont want to work longer."

How do you know what most people want?

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By *obka3Couple over a year ago

bournemouth

Possibly; but you did certainly say that "more workers are needed"

Yes, unless you want to pay more tax, or change the pensionable age.

Most people dont want to pay more tax. Most people dont want to work longer."

Tough they will have to regardless of brexit the french are trying to increase their retirement age,people live longer so they will have to work longer or save harder the choice is theirs and its pretty simple, our retirement age has been increasing for a while and will continue to brexit or no brexit but you carrying on finding things to blame on brexit if it makes you feel a bit better,mean while in the real world we will carry on

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Average life expectancy increases, length of working life increases to subsidise it. Non story.

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By *osieWoman over a year ago

Wembley

Long time ago, the SPA for women increased from 60 to 65 to bring it in line with the men. Then it increased to 66 for everyone and now for me, it is already 67. It might even go to 68

None of this was anything to do with Brexit and everything to do with the life expectancy increasing

Taxes will increase and people will have to work for longer

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *LCC OP Couple over a year ago

Cambridge

"Long time ago, the SPA for women increased from 60 to 65 to bring it in line with the men. Then it increased to 66 for everyone and now for me, it is already 67. It might even go to 68

None of this was anything to do with Brexit and everything to do with the life expectancy increasing

Taxes will increase and people will have to work for longer"

So you can't see how that trend can be exacerbated by a fall in workers coming to the UK?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *osieWoman over a year ago

Wembley

"Long time ago, the SPA for women increased from 60 to 65 to bring it in line with the men. Then it increased to 66 for everyone and now for me, it is already 67. It might even go to 68

None of this was anything to do with Brexit and everything to do with the life expectancy increasing

Taxes will increase and people will have to work for longer

So you can't see how that trend can be exacerbated by a fall in workers coming to the UK? "

I can see more pensioners in the making. Can you not see that?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *LCC OP Couple over a year ago

Cambridge

"Long time ago, the SPA for women increased from 60 to 65 to bring it in line with the men. Then it increased to 66 for everyone and now for me, it is already 67. It might even go to 68

None of this was anything to do with Brexit and everything to do with the life expectancy increasing

Taxes will increase and people will have to work for longer

So you can't see how that trend can be exacerbated by a fall in workers coming to the UK?

I can see more pensioners in the making. Can you not see that?"

No, because that is not the trend of EU migration.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *osieWoman over a year ago

Wembley

"Long time ago, the SPA for women increased from 60 to 65 to bring it in line with the men. Then it increased to 66 for everyone and now for me, it is already 67. It might even go to 68

None of this was anything to do with Brexit and everything to do with the life expectancy increasing

Taxes will increase and people will have to work for longer

So you can't see how that trend can be exacerbated by a fall in workers coming to the UK?

I can see more pensioners in the making. Can you not see that?

No, because that is not the trend of EU migration."

Really? What is the 'trend'?

Do tell me so as an EU migrant, I find out

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *LCC OP Couple over a year ago

Cambridge

Possibly; but you did certainly say that "more workers are needed"

Yes, unless you want to pay more tax, or change the pensionable age.

Most people dont want to pay more tax. Most people dont want to work longer.

Nigel Farage famously said that he didn't want to live next door to a Romanian family. I don't see why people who are happy to live next door to Romanians should have to pay more tax, and or work longer, because some people don't want to live next to Romanians.

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By *obka3Couple over a year ago

bournemouth

"Long time ago, the SPA for women increased from 60 to 65 to bring it in line with the men. Then it increased to 66 for everyone and now for me, it is already 67. It might even go to 68

None of this was anything to do with Brexit and everything to do with the life expectancy increasing

Taxes will increase and people will have to work for longer

So you can't see how that trend can be exacerbated by a fall in workers coming to the UK?

I can see more pensioners in the making. Can you not see that?

No, because that is not the trend of EU migration."

My local town had a large polish influx during WW2 they married had kids and they are now retired, dont you think that a decent proportion of immigrants that have come in the last twenty years will do exactly the same? There kids will be british in thought and many wont want to go to live in the land of their parent(s) just as those that fled here in the war didnt rreturn.

Youre in a hole(again) best stop digging

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By *osieWoman over a year ago

Wembley

Possibly; but you did certainly say that "more workers are needed"

Yes, unless you want to pay more tax, or change the pensionable age.

Most people dont want to pay more tax. Most people dont want to work longer.

So you want to move to Romania?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *osieWoman over a year ago

Wembley

"Long time ago, the SPA for women increased from 60 to 65 to bring it in line with the men. Then it increased to 66 for everyone and now for me, it is already 67. It might even go to 68

None of this was anything to do with Brexit and everything to do with the life expectancy increasing

Taxes will increase and people will have to work for longer

So you can't see how that trend can be exacerbated by a fall in workers coming to the UK?

I can see more pensioners in the making. Can you not see that?

No, because that is not the trend of EU migration.

Youre in a hole(again) best stop digging "

Exactly

I wasn't even planing to stay here. I was on my way back home and paid $20 for a stop-over for 3 days

Every year, when I go home to see my family, I promise myself that this is the year I will return home. Never happens; my house and my job are here. All my friends, barring childhood friends, are here; I will probably die here

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By *LCC OP Couple over a year ago

Cambridge

"Long time ago, the SPA for women increased from 60 to 65 to bring it in line with the men. Then it increased to 66 for everyone and now for me, it is already 67. It might even go to 68

None of this was anything to do with Brexit and everything to do with the life expectancy increasing

Taxes will increase and people will have to work for longer

So you can't see how that trend can be exacerbated by a fall in workers coming to the UK?

I can see more pensioners in the making. Can you not see that?

No, because that is not the trend of EU migration.

Really? What is the 'trend'?

Do tell me so as an EU migrant, I find out"

The trend is for EU citizens to come here for a relatively short period of time, a few years, and then leave. Obviously I don't need to point out that saying something is a trend is different to saying that that is the case for every single person.

As an EU migrant, perhaps you can answer these two questions.

1. Is it an EU Treaty right to work in other member states?

2. Is it an EU Treaty right to retire in other member states?

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By *illwill69uMan over a year ago

moston

"I can see more pensioners in the making. Can you not see that?"

Nope...

I can see a return to a time when all but the aristocracies and merchant princes had to work from cradle to grave, and the majority knew their place and stepped aside, tugged their forelock when their betters passed and were grateful for any scraps thrown their way after the dogs had been fed.

Of course it will have to be done subtly. We can start by raising the state retirement age and quietly privatise the state pension (if we package that one well we can get the prols to volunteer to hand over their state pension pots to the bankers and insurance companies). If we are really clever we can get them to buy never ending mortgages on their homes too. Then all we need to do is wait a while,engineer a financial crisis and we can have it all and get the prols to give us everything that they have bought over the last century. If we do it right the prols will blame the ones who want to stop us and hand us total power at the same time!

It's going to be great!

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By *osieWoman over a year ago

Wembley

"Long time ago, the SPA for women increased from 60 to 65 to bring it in line with the men. Then it increased to 66 for everyone and now for me, it is already 67. It might even go to 68

None of this was anything to do with Brexit and everything to do with the life expectancy increasing

Taxes will increase and people will have to work for longer

So you can't see how that trend can be exacerbated by a fall in workers coming to the UK?

I can see more pensioners in the making. Can you not see that?

No, because that is not the trend of EU migration.

Really? What is the 'trend'?

Do tell me so as an EU migrant, I find out

As an EU migrant, perhaps you can answer these two questions.

1. Is it an EU Treaty right to work in other member states?

2. Is it an EU Treaty right to retire in other member states? "

No, you are wrong. That is not the trend

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *mmabluTV/TS over a year ago

upton wirral

"Seems to me all you do is look for things to blame on Brexit

Pension age was rising way before the referendum

You come across as a very sad bitter little man who cant accept the result of the referendum

"
So very true

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *osieWoman over a year ago

Wembley

"I can see more pensioners in the making. Can you not see that?

Nope...

It's going to be great!

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *LCC OP Couple over a year ago

Cambridge

"Long time ago, the SPA for women increased from 60 to 65 to bring it in line with the men. Then it increased to 66 for everyone and now for me, it is already 67. It might even go to 68

None of this was anything to do with Brexit and everything to do with the life expectancy increasing

Taxes will increase and people will have to work for longer

So you can't see how that trend can be exacerbated by a fall in workers coming to the UK?

I can see more pensioners in the making. Can you not see that?

No, because that is not the trend of EU migration.

Really? What is the 'trend'?

Do tell me so as an EU migrant, I find out

As an EU migrant, perhaps you can answer these two questions.

1. Is it an EU Treaty right to work in other member states?

2. Is it an EU Treaty right to retire in other member states?

No, you are wrong. That is not the trend"

I think you'll find it is

By the way, you forgot to answer the questions...

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *osieWoman over a year ago

Wembley

"Long time ago, the SPA for women increased from 60 to 65 to bring it in line with the men. Then it increased to 66 for everyone and now for me, it is already 67. It might even go to 68

None of this was anything to do with Brexit and everything to do with the life expectancy increasing

Taxes will increase and people will have to work for longer

So you can't see how that trend can be exacerbated by a fall in workers coming to the UK?

I can see more pensioners in the making. Can you not see that?

No, because that is not the trend of EU migration.

Really? What is the 'trend'?

Do tell me so as an EU migrant, I find out

As an EU migrant, perhaps you can answer these two questions.

1. Is it an EU Treaty right to work in other member states?

2. Is it an EU Treaty right to retire in other member states?

No, you are wrong. That is not the trend"

Answering to your questions

I have not only the right to work here but also the right of abode and if I wished, to become a naturalised UK citizen. I wouldn't take UK citizenship as Germany does not permit dual citizenship and I have no wish to give up my German citizenship

When I reach State pension age, I will receive a State Pension from the British government. I also have an occupational pension here which will become payable here

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *osieWoman over a year ago

Wembley

"Long time ago, the SPA for women increased from 60 to 65 to bring it in line with the men. Then it increased to 66 for everyone and now for me, it is already 67. It might even go to 68

None of this was anything to do with Brexit and everything to do with the life expectancy increasing

Taxes will increase and people will have to work for longer

So you can't see how that trend can be exacerbated by a fall in workers coming to the UK?

I can see more pensioners in the making. Can you not see that?

No, because that is not the trend of EU migration.

Really? What is the 'trend'?

Do tell me so as an EU migrant, I find out

As an EU migrant, perhaps you can answer these two questions.

1. Is it an EU Treaty right to work in other member states?

2. Is it an EU Treaty right to retire in other member states?

No, you are wrong. That is not the trend

I think you'll find it is

By the way, you forgot to answer the questions..."

We can go in circles with this one

I think you'll find it isn't

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *LCC OP Couple over a year ago

Cambridge

"Long time ago, the SPA for women increased from 60 to 65 to bring it in line with the men. Then it increased to 66 for everyone and now for me, it is already 67. It might even go to 68

None of this was anything to do with Brexit and everything to do with the life expectancy increasing

Taxes will increase and people will have to work for longer

So you can't see how that trend can be exacerbated by a fall in workers coming to the UK?

I can see more pensioners in the making. Can you not see that?

No, because that is not the trend of EU migration.

Really? What is the 'trend'?

Do tell me so as an EU migrant, I find out

As an EU migrant, perhaps you can answer these two questions.

1. Is it an EU Treaty right to work in other member states?

2. Is it an EU Treaty right to retire in other member states?

No, you are wrong. That is not the trend

Answering to your questions

When I reach State pension age, I will receive a State Pension from the British government. I also have an occupational pension here which will become payable here"

Right so you should be able to state the EU Treaty that grants you the right to retire here then.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *osieWoman over a year ago

Wembley

"Long time ago, the SPA for women increased from 60 to 65 to bring it in line with the men. Then it increased to 66 for everyone and now for me, it is already 67. It might even go to 68

None of this was anything to do with Brexit and everything to do with the life expectancy increasing

Taxes will increase and people will have to work for longer

So you can't see how that trend can be exacerbated by a fall in workers coming to the UK?

I can see more pensioners in the making. Can you not see that?

No, because that is not the trend of EU migration.

Really? What is the 'trend'?

Do tell me so as an EU migrant, I find out

As an EU migrant, perhaps you can answer these two questions.

1. Is it an EU Treaty right to work in other member states?

2. Is it an EU Treaty right to retire in other member states?

No, you are wrong. That is not the trend

Answering to your questions

When I reach State pension age, I will receive a State Pension from the British government. I also have an occupational pension here which will become payable here

Right so you should be able to state the EU Treaty that grants you the right to retire here then."

No, you do that and nitpick

All I need is my State Pension projection which I asked for and was provided

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *LCC OP Couple over a year ago

Cambridge

"Long time ago, the SPA for women increased from 60 to 65 to bring it in line with the men. Then it increased to 66 for everyone and now for me, it is already 67. It might even go to 68

None of this was anything to do with Brexit and everything to do with the life expectancy increasing

Taxes will increase and people will have to work for longer

So you can't see how that trend can be exacerbated by a fall in workers coming to the UK?

I can see more pensioners in the making. Can you not see that?

No, because that is not the trend of EU migration.

Really? What is the 'trend'?

Do tell me so as an EU migrant, I find out

As an EU migrant, perhaps you can answer these two questions.

1. Is it an EU Treaty right to work in other member states?

2. Is it an EU Treaty right to retire in other member states?

No, you are wrong. That is not the trend

Answering to your questions

When I reach State pension age, I will receive a State Pension from the British government. I also have an occupational pension here which will become payable here

Right so you should be able to state the EU Treaty that grants you the right to retire here then.

No, you do that and nitpick

All I need is my State Pension projection which I asked for and was provided"

Hmm

maybe retiring in another member state ISN'T a treaty right after all then?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *unandbuckCouple over a year ago

Sheffield

Surely everyone understands that there is a certain ratio of workers to pensioners.

If the number of pensioners increases, then more workers are needed to support them. Right?

No? So explain it to me then. Let's for arguments sake say we need 10 workers for every 1 pensioner.

If more people retire, and we now only have 7 workers to each pensioner, how will that pensioner receive the same level of support, without those workers paying a higher percentage of taxes?

Nail on the head. Bringing in hundreds of thousands of people on minimum wage, or 'looking for work' does not help anything.

Get uk citizens off benefit and working, whether they like it or not.

Bring in migrants only for true skill gaps, where a job offer is in place, at a level where they are clearly contributing, e.g £25k plus salaried positions.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *osieWoman over a year ago

Wembley

"Long time ago, the SPA for women increased from 60 to 65 to bring it in line with the men. Then it increased to 66 for everyone and now for me, it is already 67. It might even go to 68

None of this was anything to do with Brexit and everything to do with the life expectancy increasing

Taxes will increase and people will have to work for longer

So you can't see how that trend can be exacerbated by a fall in workers coming to the UK?

I can see more pensioners in the making. Can you not see that?

No, because that is not the trend of EU migration.

Really? What is the 'trend'?

Do tell me so as an EU migrant, I find out

As an EU migrant, perhaps you can answer these two questions.

1. Is it an EU Treaty right to work in other member states?

2. Is it an EU Treaty right to retire in other member states?

No, you are wrong. That is not the trend

Answering to your questions

When I reach State pension age, I will receive a State Pension from the British government. I also have an occupational pension here which will become payable here

Right so you should be able to state the EU Treaty that grants you the right to retire here then.

No, you do that and nitpick

All I need is my State Pension projection which I asked for and was provided

Hmm

maybe retiring in another member state ISN'T a treaty right after all then?

Wotever

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *LCC OP Couple over a year ago

Cambridge

"Long time ago, the SPA for women increased from 60 to 65 to bring it in line with the men. Then it increased to 66 for everyone and now for me, it is already 67. It might even go to 68

None of this was anything to do with Brexit and everything to do with the life expectancy increasing

Taxes will increase and people will have to work for longer

So you can't see how that trend can be exacerbated by a fall in workers coming to the UK?

I can see more pensioners in the making. Can you not see that?

No, because that is not the trend of EU migration.

Really? What is the 'trend'?

Do tell me so as an EU migrant, I find out

As an EU migrant, perhaps you can answer these two questions.

1. Is it an EU Treaty right to work in other member states?

2. Is it an EU Treaty right to retire in other member states?

No, you are wrong. That is not the trend

Answering to your questions

When I reach State pension age, I will receive a State Pension from the British government. I also have an occupational pension here which will become payable here

Right so you should be able to state the EU Treaty that grants you the right to retire here then.

No, you do that and nitpick

All I need is my State Pension projection which I asked for and was provided

Hmm

maybe retiring in another member state ISN'T a treaty right after all then?

Wotever

But doesn't that kind of ruin your arguement that they are going to come here and retire if they don't even have that right?

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By *illwill69uMan over a year ago

moston

"When I reach State pension age, I will receive a State Pension from the British government. I also have an occupational pension here which will become payable here"

Will you?

And will you?

I think you are taking a lot of things for granted...

10 years ago I was looking forward to getting my bus pass at 60 and state pensions (I was expecting 2) at 65. Now that I am 60 I will have to wait till I'm 67 to get my bus pass and 1 of my pensions is effectively gone. I have a nasty feeling that by the time I get to 67 the retirement age will have moved again and my bus pass will be a thing of history.

I think rather than saying "when I reach retirement age" we should be saying "if I reach retirement age" and then "I may (if I am lucky and qualify) receive a state subsistence income, and if my private pension fund managers and trustees have not raided my pension fund to line their personal and company pockets there may be a small pension for me that in all likelihood the government will use to justify removing my state pension right.

But don't worry as you can see reading this and other threads everyone will blame it all on the foreigners.

As I said...

It's going to be great!

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By *unandbuckCouple over a year ago

Sheffield

But don't worry as you can see reading this and other threads everyone will blame it all on the foreigners.

As I said...

It's going to be great!

I don't think most people are blaming that situation on foreigners. The question is, is indefinite unlimited immigration a solution to that problem?

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By *icketysplitsWoman over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

I've already worked 34 years and I have another 15 to go before I reach retirement age. If Brexit is to push that up further then the plan to reduce the pension welfare bill will be achieved by my age group working until we drop.

Insert shrug emoticon.

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By *LCC OP Couple over a year ago

Cambridge

Surely everyone understands that there is a certain ratio of workers to pensioners.

If the number of pensioners increases, then more workers are needed to support them. Right?

No? So explain it to me then. Let's for arguments sake say we need 10 workers for every 1 pensioner.

If more people retire, and we now only have 7 workers to each pensioner, how will that pensioner receive the same level of support, without those workers paying a higher percentage of taxes?

Nail on the head. Bringing in hundreds of thousands of people on minimum wage, or 'looking for work' does not help anything.

Get uk citizens off benefit and working, whether they like it or not.

Bring in migrants only for true skill gaps, where a job offer is in place, at a level where they are clearly contributing, e.g £25k plus salaried positions.

Well the two things you say there DO help things.

1. A person working a minimum wage job. Great

they pay taxes and buy food, rent a house, buy a car, go to the pub, spend their money in our economy. Great.

2. A person comes here looking for work, they rent a place to live, go to the pub, buy some food, buy some clothes etc. Spending money in our economy Great.

They can't claim any benefits, and then at the end of the 6 months they either have to leave as they are not exercising a treaty right, or they get a job (see point 1)

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By *osieWoman over a year ago

Wembley

"When I reach State pension age, I will receive a State Pension from the British government. I also have an occupational pension here which will become payable here

Will you?

And will you?

I think you are taking a lot of things for granted...

But don't worry as you can see reading this and other threads everyone will blame it all on the foreigners.

As I said...

It's going to be great!

Yes. The first projection I asked for, some years ago, was for 65. Then 66; last year I was told, 67. I know that it will certainly be more than 67 before I get anywhere near that age

Worse is that my occupational pension is now tied to the SPA too

The good news is that my contributions are up-to-date. So someone is happy

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By *unandbuckCouple over a year ago

Sheffield

Well the two things you say there DO help things.

1. A person working a minimum wage job. Great

they pay taxes and buy food, rent a house, buy a car, go to the pub, spend their money in our economy. Great.

2. A person comes here looking for work, they rent a place to live, go to the pub, buy some food, buy some clothes etc. Spending money in our economy Great.

They can't claim any benefits, and then at the end of the 6 months they either have to leave as they are not exercising a treaty right, or they get a job (see point 1)

A person in position 1 will be minimal/ zero contributor to hmrc.

Do you think they will be buying a car and at the pub, after renting a house on minumum wage?

Thats before accounting for any healthcare or education they receive.

They will not be a contributor and certainly 10 such people won't be supporting a pension.

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By *LCC OP Couple over a year ago

Cambridge

Well the two things you say there DO help things.

1. A person working a minimum wage job. Great

they pay taxes and buy food, rent a house, buy a car, go to the pub, spend their money in our economy. Great.

2. A person comes here looking for work, they rent a place to live, go to the pub, buy some food, buy some clothes etc. Spending money in our economy Great.

They can't claim any benefits, and then at the end of the 6 months they either have to leave as they are not exercising a treaty right, or they get a job (see point 1)

A person in position 1 will be minimal/ zero contributor to hmrc.

Do you think they will be buying a car and at the pub, after renting a house on minumum wage?

Thats before accounting for any healthcare or education they receive.

They will not be a contributor and certainly 10 such people won't be supporting a pension."

Someone working full time on the national living wage pays approximately £3,744 tax and national insurance per year, so 10 of them would be paying around £37,000 a year. You dont think that would help support a pensioner?

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By *illwill69uMan over a year ago

moston

"I don't think most people are blaming that situation on foreigners. The question is, is indefinite unlimited immigration a solution to that problem?"

Really?

I notice that this thread is supposed to be about retirement age and pensions. I have made 2 posts, in one I attempt to subtlety point out how the financial industry is using slight of hand strip most of us of our pensions and the government is actively complicit in the fraud and how open some are about their involvement, I even drop a not too subtle hint that it is an international problem. Reaction, one person posted 3 green laughing faces...

My second post was even more in your face and pointed out that no pension is safe, I even named the people who steal pensions! And what part of the post do you react to? The paragraph about how not to worry the foreigners will get the blame! Maybe you should go back to the start of this thread and look at how many posts are about who should be here or not. Then read my posts again and tell me I do not understand whats going on while you continue to argue over migration while ignoring corporate fraud and the buying of companies like BHS by the likes of Philip Green to raid their pension funds while asset stripping them and driving them into bankruptcy making 10's of thousands unemployed and causing destitution in old age to buy a bigger yacht or to have your own name on a jumbo jet!

Trump, Green and their mates must be pissing themselves laughing at us!

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By *tillup4funMan over a year ago

Wakefield

Well the two things you say there DO help things.

1. A person working a minimum wage job. Great

they pay taxes and buy food, rent a house, buy a car, go to the pub, spend their money in our economy. Great.

2. A person comes here looking for work, they rent a place to live, go to the pub, buy some food, buy some clothes etc. Spending money in our economy Great.

They can't claim any benefits, and then at the end of the 6 months they either have to leave as they are not exercising a treaty right, or they get a job (see point 1)

A person in position 1 will be minimal/ zero contributor to hmrc.

Do you think they will be buying a car and at the pub, after renting a house on minumum wage?

Thats before accounting for any healthcare or education they receive.

They will not be a contributor and certainly 10 such people won't be supporting a pension."

But will be claiming a pension in the furture.

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By *LCC OP Couple over a year ago

Cambridge

Well the two things you say there DO help things.

1. A person working a minimum wage job. Great

they pay taxes and buy food, rent a house, buy a car, go to the pub, spend their money in our economy. Great.

2. A person comes here looking for work, they rent a place to live, go to the pub, buy some food, buy some clothes etc. Spending money in our economy Great.

They can't claim any benefits, and then at the end of the 6 months they either have to leave as they are not exercising a treaty right, or they get a job (see point 1)

A person in position 1 will be minimal/ zero contributor to hmrc.

Do you think they will be buying a car and at the pub, after renting a house on minumum wage?

Thats before accounting for any healthcare or education they receive.

They will not be a contributor and certainly 10 such people won't be supporting a pension.

But will be claiming a pension in the furture.

I'll believe you if you can tell me what treaty grants them that right

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By *osieWoman over a year ago

Wembley

Gov.uk website:

"European Economic Area (EEA) countries and Switzerland

You only need to claim your state pension in the last country where you lived or worked. Your claim will cover all EEA countries (including the UK) and Switzerland. You don’t need to claim for each country separately."

"The European Economic Area (EEA)

The EEA includes EU countries and also Iceland, Liechtenstein and Norway. It allows them to be part of the EU’s single market.

Switzerland is neither an EU nor EEA member but is part of the single market - this means Swiss nationals have the same rights to live and work in the UK as other EEA nationals.

There has been no change to the rights and status of EU nationals in the UK, and UK nationals in the EU, as a result of the referendum."

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By *andS66Couple over a year ago

Derby

"So it looks as though the pension age is going to have to rise significantly due to reduced immigration as a result of Brexit.

Less immigrants means less tax payers supporting our retired population. To balance that we will need to delay the pension age for millions of people.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/12/brexit-migration-cuts-could-push-state-pension-age/?WT.mc_id=tmgliveapp_androidshare_AnXNR39j6Xcf"

Yes, totally because of Brexit. Its got absolutely fuck all to do with the fact that we are all living way longer than we were just a generation ago.

And the increases in the pension age over the last decade or so? Well, that was because of the foresight of governments thinking of the possibility of a Brexit.

I mean, all EU member states have decreased their retirement age, haven't they?

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By *illwill69uMan over a year ago

moston

"Gov.uk website:

"European Economic Area (EEA) countries and Switzerland

"The European Economic Area (EEA)

The EEA includes EU countries and also Iceland, Liechtenstein and Norway. It allows them to be part of the EU’s single market.

Switzerland is neither an EU nor EEA member but is part of the single market - this means Swiss nationals have the same rights to live and work in the UK as other EEA nationals.

There has been no change to the rights and status of EU nationals in the UK, and UK nationals in the EU, as a result of the referendum."

But that is not quite true...

Nothing has changed as a result of the referendum, but everything will change once we leave the EU as we are leaving the single market and the EEA are essentially the same and require the same 4 freedoms of movement. That is people, goods, services and capital. We have stated that there can be no freedom of movement for people after we leave the EU therefore there can be no continued membership of the EEA, therefore EEA pension rights will be lost.

It always helps to read and understand what has been written not what you think has been written.

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By *osieWoman over a year ago

Wembley

"Gov.uk website:

"European Economic Area (EEA) countries and Switzerland

"The European Economic Area (EEA)

The EEA includes EU countries and also Iceland, Liechtenstein and Norway. It allows them to be part of the EU’s single market.

Switzerland is neither an EU nor EEA member but is part of the single market - this means Swiss nationals have the same rights to live and work in the UK as other EEA nationals.

There has been no change to the rights and status of EU nationals in the UK, and UK nationals in the EU, as a result of the referendum."

But that is not quite true...

It always helps to read and understand what has been written not what you think has been written.

"The decision about when to trigger Article 50 and start the formal process of leaving the EU will be for the new Prime Minister. The UK remains a member of the EU throughout this process, and until Article 50 negotiations have concluded.

.....

I have lived in the UK for more than 5 years. What does the vote to leave the EU mean for me?

EU nationals who have lived continuously and lawfully in the UK for at least 5 years automatically have a permanent right to reside. This means that they have a right to live in the UK permanently, in accordance with EU law. There is no requirement to register for documentation to confirm this status.

EU nationals who have lived continuously and lawfully in the UK for at least 6 years are eligible to apply for British citizenship if they would like to do so. The eligibility requirements can be found here."

Google and read the rest

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By *illwill69uMan over a year ago

moston

"I have lived in the UK for more than 5 years. What does the vote to leave the EU mean for me?

Google and read the rest"

Nice try, but it seems you really fail to understand.

When we leave the EU we leave the EEA.

Once the UK leaves the EEA your transferred pension will no longer be valid therefore if you stay here you will only be entitled to whatever pension you have accrued in the UK, all pension rights accrued in other EU countries will be lost. Similarly all UK pension rights will be lost by anyone moving to the EU unless there is a reciprocal pensions agreement made by the UK with the EU. The EU have stated that we will not get to cherry pick what parts of the single market we keep its an all or nothing deal. I would advise you to believe them and plan accordingly.

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By *osieWoman over a year ago

Wembley

[Removed by poster at 14/02/17 02:38:17]

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By *osieWoman over a year ago

Wembley

"I have lived in the UK for more than 5 years. What does the vote to leave the EU mean for me?

Google and read the rest

Nice try, but it seems you really fail to understand.

When we leave the EU we leave the EEA.

You are the one misunderstanding

I am NOT leaving and therefore the projections sent to me will be honoured plus any further pension which I continue to contribute towards until my contribution reaches 35 years, which will be in another 11 years (maximum of 9 more years after Brexit finally materialises)

What you are ALSO really, really, failing to understand is that I do not have any pension accrued in Germany as I have only ever worked and contributed into the UK State Pension

I suggest reading comprehension lessons for you

Nice try but you must try harder

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By *illwill69uMan over a year ago

moston

"You are the one misunderstanding

What you are ALSO really, really, failing to understand is that I do not have any pension accrued in Germany as I have only ever worked and contributed into the UK State Pension

I suggest reading comprehension lessons for you

Nice try but you must try harder"

I am not your enemy. I am not attacking you. I will be more than happy if your state pension is not effected by brexit. But I genuinely do not believe it will be as smooth as many think. I believe that many EU citizens living here and UK citizens living in other parts of the EU are in for some very unpleasant surprises, and the more I hear the more I fear that we may well witness scenes reminiscent of those when India was partitioned and maybe even as bad as some of what happened when Yugoslavia split up in the 80's.

I truly believe we are sleepwalking into a dystopian nationalist nightmare across Europe and that by the time we wake up it will be too late to halt the process.

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By *osieWoman over a year ago

Wembley

"You are the one misunderstanding

What you are ALSO really, really, failing to understand is that I do not have any pension accrued in Germany as I have only ever worked and contributed into the UK State Pension

I suggest reading comprehension lessons for you

Nice try but you must try harder

I truly believe we are sleepwalking into a dystopian nationalist nightmare across Europe and that by the time we wake up it will be too late to halt the process."

Everything I have quoted is from the UK government website and applies pre and post Brexit for EU citizens currently in the UK and who have resided in the UK for 5 or more years

Any future, post Brexit EU citizens arriving in the UK may well be subject to different regulation. And there you are correct; we just do not know what that regulation will look like

It is now too late too halt this current process. But who knows if the UK won't be back in the EU again 20 years from now

For now, the cheap labour from the former Eastern bloc will dry up. Probably good as we will now have to upskill our (I am speaking as I was British, which I am not) people and get them off benefits and back into gainful employment

On a seperate note, I would be the biggest fool on the planet if I were to rely on just State Pension. I have an occupational pension too (not a hit and miss annuity purchase) and also a pension in Germany which isn't a State Pension but one which is regulated by my professional body and not an insurance / pension company. I sometimes do wonder how anyone can live on just State Pension, but clearly, some people do

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By *LCC OP Couple over a year ago

Cambridge

"You are the one misunderstanding

What you are ALSO really, really, failing to understand is that I do not have any pension accrued in Germany as I have only ever worked and contributed into the UK State Pension

I suggest reading comprehension lessons for you

Nice try but you must try harder

I truly believe we are sleepwalking into a dystopian nationalist nightmare across Europe and that by the time we wake up it will be too late to halt the process.

Everything I have quoted is from the UK government website and applies pre and post Brexit for EU citizens currently in the UK and who have resided in the UK for 5 or more years

Any future, post Brexit EU citizens arriving in the UK may well be subject to different regulation. And there you are correct; we just do not know what that regulation will look like

It is now too late too halt this current process. But who knows if the UK won't be back in the EU again 20 years from now

I thought you said "I do not have any pension accrued in Germany"

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Absolutely

At this moment for every £600 you pay into AVC's for your pension pot, you get £400 added tax rebate, so if you pay in £1200 each month, that is £2000 per month going into AVC's

It soon mounts up, worth paying your annual bonus into AVC's too, but remember the Max you can pay in is £40k per year, it soon adds up and nests the way to a lovely retirement at 55 years of age or earlier

You don't get many better returns at this moment.

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By *osieWoman over a year ago

Wembley

"You are the one misunderstanding

What you are ALSO really, really, failing to understand is that I do not have any pension accrued in Germany as I have only ever worked and contributed into the UK State Pension

I suggest reading comprehension lessons for you

Nice try but you must try harder

I truly believe we are sleepwalking into a dystopian nationalist nightmare across Europe and that by the time we wake up it will be too late to halt the process.

Everything I have quoted is from the UK government website and applies pre and post Brexit for EU citizens currently in the UK and who have resided in the UK for 5 or more years

Any future, post Brexit EU citizens arriving in the UK may well be subject to different regulation. And there you are correct; we just do not know what that regulation will look like

It is now too late too halt this current process. But who knows if the UK won't be back in the EU again 20 years from now

I thought you said "I do not have any pension accrued in Germany"

Not State Pension. It is a private pension regulated by my professional body there as I am licenced to practice there too. I transfer tax-paid sums to my pension fund in Germany. I have no intention of moving money around when I take early retirement and spend some of my time with my family at home

It is just like the private pension you probably have here except that in all probability, your pension fund will have to be used to purchase an annuity at the time it matures

The only State pension I have is here, which on the full rate (£155.65 per week) is not a whole lot for anything much

You really should read before you start commenting. I have written this in my earlier comment too. I guess you are trying to deflect from supporting your statement that Brexit is responsible for a rise in the State Pension age. And that is complete nonsense. The State Pension age is rising all across Western Europe and the reason is that the population is living longer

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By *unandbuckCouple over a year ago

Sheffield

A person in position 1 will be minimal/ zero contributor to hmrc.

Do you think they will be buying a car and at the pub, after renting a house on minumum wage?

Thats before accounting for any healthcare or education they receive.

They will not be a contributor and certainly 10 such people won't be supporting a pension.

Well, on min wage they actually pay about £1500 per year.

If they have kids in school, or ever use a doctor or the hospital, then scrub that and good luck working out the cost to the government.

Fact remains, making British citizens do the same work pays back double - reduced benefits plus tiny bit of tax, no extra health or education costs.

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By *LCC OP Couple over a year ago

Cambridge

"You are the one misunderstanding

What you are ALSO really, really, failing to understand is that I do not have any pension accrued in Germany as I have only ever worked and contributed into the UK State Pension

I suggest reading comprehension lessons for you

Nice try but you must try harder

I truly believe we are sleepwalking into a dystopian nationalist nightmare across Europe and that by the time we wake up it will be too late to halt the process.

Everything I have quoted is from the UK government website and applies pre and post Brexit for EU citizens currently in the UK and who have resided in the UK for 5 or more years

Any future, post Brexit EU citizens arriving in the UK may well be subject to different regulation. And there you are correct; we just do not know what that regulation will look like

It is now too late too halt this current process. But who knows if the UK won't be back in the EU again 20 years from now

I thought you said "I do not have any pension accrued in Germany"

It is just like the private pension you probably have here except that in all probability, your pension fund will have to be used to purchase an annuity at the time it matures

The only State pension I have is here, which on the full rate (£155.65 per week) is not a whole lot for anything much

I'm sure you know more about pensions than the government's pensions adviser, Kings College London, Oxford Institute of Population Ageing etc. I'm sure you're right and they're wrong

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By *ammskiMan over a year ago

lytham st.annes