FabSwingers.com > Forums > Politics > The rise of populism
The rise of populism
Jump to: Newest in thread
 |
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
The rise of populism is gaining momentum and it already happened in usa with trump, europe is following suit with elections coming up in france with marine le pen, germany and other countries, the backlash against establishment have started, can populism work or is it a challenge for the democratic system? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
like anything it will be used by those who seek power as a means to use those who think change is as easy as voting in a party who say 'we are different and will change the system'..
funny enough its the emperors new clothes..
again.. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"violence is the only way to change anything. why do you think they keep starting wars?"
I really hope violence isn't the only way to change things as I believe in non-violent, peaceful protest, people giving enough of a fuck to stand up and be counted and speaking truth to power.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *orum TrollWoman
over a year ago
•+• Access Denied •+• |
"violence is the only way to change anything. why do you think they keep starting wars?
I really hope violence isn't the only way to change things as I believe in non-violent, peaceful protest, people giving enough of a fuck to stand up and be counted and speaking truth to power.
"
i used to believe in that. it changes nothing but the populace, so things like how we conduct ourselves between ourselves changes to a degree.
but it doesn't affect the people in power at all. in fact there's been so many protests against poverty and yet the poor are getting poorer and having their services taken away from them more than ever. and there are peaceful protests against this all the time. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
I think people have had enough of the government's swaying to far to the left, the UK and USA have turned into places where people get offended by anything that's not deemed PC, hillary was obviously not fit for the Whitehouse and the American people clearly saw that. People are not happy with how government's run things today, they wanted change and trump offered it. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"violence is the only way to change anything. why do you think they keep starting wars?
I really hope violence isn't the only way to change things as I believe in non-violent, peaceful protest, people giving enough of a fuck to stand up and be counted and speaking truth to power.
i used to believe in that. it changes nothing but the populace, so things like how we conduct ourselves between ourselves changes to a degree.
but it doesn't affect the people in power at all. in fact there's been so many protests against poverty and yet the poor are getting poorer and having their services taken away from them more than ever. and there are peaceful protests against this all the time."
Violent protests end up with them dead quicker. The people with the money have the best machines for killing and they then use other poorer people to deploy them. Or, worse now, drones, which take out the human element altogether and turn killing in to nothing more than a computer game.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *orum TrollWoman
over a year ago
•+• Access Denied •+• |
"I think people have had enough of the government's swaying to far to the left, the UK and USA have turned into places where people get offended by anything that's not deemed PC, hillary was obviously not fit for the Whitehouse and the American people clearly saw that. People are not happy with how government's run things today, they wanted change and trump offered it."
there's a huge backlash against liberals right now i've noticed, amongst anarchists. in the UK as well as over there.
peace is coming to an end and it actually is more down to the far right taking over with their violence and hate that is prompting this, imo. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *orum TrollWoman
over a year ago
•+• Access Denied •+• |
"violence is the only way to change anything. why do you think they keep starting wars?
I really hope violence isn't the only way to change things as I believe in non-violent, peaceful protest, people giving enough of a fuck to stand up and be counted and speaking truth to power.
i used to believe in that. it changes nothing but the populace, so things like how we conduct ourselves between ourselves changes to a degree.
but it doesn't affect the people in power at all. in fact there's been so many protests against poverty and yet the poor are getting poorer and having their services taken away from them more than ever. and there are peaceful protests against this all the time.
Violent protests end up with them dead quicker. The people with the money have the best machines for killing and they then use other poorer people to deploy them. Or, worse now, drones, which take out the human element altogether and turn killing in to nothing more than a computer game.
"
they daren't use that stuff in the western world though. not yet.
water cannons, maybe? nobody does nothing at the violent protests we have now as it is. and they do happen, just nobody tells you about it. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I think people have had enough of the government's swaying to far to the left, the UK and USA have turned into places where people get offended by anything that's not deemed PC, hillary was obviously not fit for the Whitehouse and the American people clearly saw that. People are not happy with how government's run things today, they wanted change and trump offered it.
there's a huge backlash against liberals right now i've noticed, amongst anarchists. in the UK as well as over there.
peace is coming to an end and it actually is more down to the far right taking over with their violence and hate that is prompting this, imo."
I only see the left , smashing up cities, beating people in the streets , setting stuff on fire and stopping the general public from going about their normal day |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *rp861Man
over a year ago
Notts |
"I think people have had enough of the government's swaying to far to the left, the UK and USA have turned into places where people get offended by anything that's not deemed PC, hillary was obviously not fit for the Whitehouse and the American people clearly saw that. People are not happy with how government's run things today, they wanted change and trump offered it.
there's a huge backlash against liberals right now i've noticed, amongst anarchists. in the UK as well as over there.
peace is coming to an end and it actually is more down to the far right taking over with their violence and hate that is prompting this, imo."
All the violence is coming from the "tolerant" left. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *orum TrollWoman
over a year ago
•+• Access Denied •+• |
"I think people have had enough of the government's swaying to far to the left, the UK and USA have turned into places where people get offended by anything that's not deemed PC, hillary was obviously not fit for the Whitehouse and the American people clearly saw that. People are not happy with how government's run things today, they wanted change and trump offered it.
there's a huge backlash against liberals right now i've noticed, amongst anarchists. in the UK as well as over there.
peace is coming to an end and it actually is more down to the far right taking over with their violence and hate that is prompting this, imo.
I only see the left , smashing up cities, beating people in the streets , setting stuff on fire and stopping the general public from going about their normal day "
punching nazis? 
what else we supposed to do? put up with shit? our ancestors died so we could have workers rights, not even fair and equal rights but the rights to something better than being killed if we asked for more food. too right we ain't putting up with shit. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
And we're back to "it's the left"/"it's the right" as debate. That's the domain of the politics board.
Tolerance isn't about only tolerating the views you already hold being spouted by people saying what you want to hear.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *rp861Man
over a year ago
Notts |
"I think people have had enough of the government's swaying to far to the left, the UK and USA have turned into places where people get offended by anything that's not deemed PC, hillary was obviously not fit for the Whitehouse and the American people clearly saw that. People are not happy with how government's run things today, they wanted change and trump offered it.
there's a huge backlash against liberals right now i've noticed, amongst anarchists. in the UK as well as over there.
peace is coming to an end and it actually is more down to the far right taking over with their violence and hate that is prompting this, imo.
I only see the left , smashing up cities, beating people in the streets , setting stuff on fire and stopping the general public from going about their normal day
punching nazis?
what else we supposed to do? put up with shit? our ancestors died so we could have workers rights, not even fair and equal rights but the rights to something better than being killed if we asked for more food. too right we ain't putting up with shit."
They also died for society where leaders are democratically elected. Workers do have rights. Who has been killed for asking for food? And if you want something better, you work for it! What makes everyome thinnk theyre so entitled?! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I think people have had enough of the government's swaying to far to the left, the UK and USA have turned into places where people get offended by anything that's not deemed PC, hillary was obviously not fit for the Whitehouse and the American people clearly saw that. People are not happy with how government's run things today, they wanted change and trump offered it.
Neither country has been governed by "the left" in a long time. Slightly left of centre maybe.
That's actually the real problem, through changes of government, there has been real change.
It's the same people in charge, just different ties..."
No real change...
That "no" is quite important to the whole bloody post!
;-) |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *orum TrollWoman
over a year ago
•+• Access Denied •+• |
"I think people have had enough of the government's swaying to far to the left, the UK and USA have turned into places where people get offended by anything that's not deemed PC, hillary was obviously not fit for the Whitehouse and the American people clearly saw that. People are not happy with how government's run things today, they wanted change and trump offered it.
there's a huge backlash against liberals right now i've noticed, amongst anarchists. in the UK as well as over there.
peace is coming to an end and it actually is more down to the far right taking over with their violence and hate that is prompting this, imo.
I only see the left , smashing up cities, beating people in the streets , setting stuff on fire and stopping the general public from going about their normal day
punching nazis?
what else we supposed to do? put up with shit? our ancestors died so we could have workers rights, not even fair and equal rights but the rights to something better than being killed if we asked for more food. too right we ain't putting up with shit.
They also died for society where leaders are democratically elected. Workers do have rights. Who has been killed for asking for food? And if you want something better, you work for it! What makes everyome thinnk theyre so entitled?!"
democratically? ok, so who is representing everyone right now? is trump really supporting muslims, and mexicans in his country? i don't think so. how about people in the uk, is anybody being financially punished right now? and yes i use the word punished, sanctions are punishments. so is being given 'incentives' to work when you're disabled by having your money cut.
if you're working class your ancestors, and people who exist now if we think about it, have been treated terribly by the state/people in power. always. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"The rise of populism is gaining momentum and it already happened in usa with trump, europe is following suit with elections coming up in france with marine le pen, germany and other countries, the backlash against establishment have started, can populism work or is it a challenge for the democratic system?"
It's not populism. It is a dumbed down society being played by fear.
Brexit - fear of immigration, swarms of them, new cities having to be built and the Turks are coming. Remember your FB friends who shared Britain First posts thinkingbit was patriotic?
Trump - Fear of Muslims, fear of Globalism, suspicion of bad hombres and trade deals weighted against US
Social media helps by targeting you with messages that you "like" and thereby sleepwalk you into an echo chamber where you only hear what you want to hear.
Personally, I feel now like I did at the time of the WMD debate and realising that Politicians were just glorified humanoid opinion polls who sail with the prevailing wind. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I think people have had enough of the government's swaying to far to the left, the UK and USA have turned into places where people get offended by anything that's not deemed PC, hillary was obviously not fit for the Whitehouse and the American people clearly saw that. People are not happy with how government's run things today, they wanted change and trump offered it.
there's a huge backlash against liberals right now i've noticed, amongst anarchists. in the UK as well as over there.
peace is coming to an end and it actually is more down to the far right taking over with their violence and hate that is prompting this, imo.
I only see the left , smashing up cities, beating people in the streets , setting stuff on fire and stopping the general public from going about their normal day
punching nazis?
what else we supposed to do? put up with shit? our ancestors died so we could have workers rights, not even fair and equal rights but the rights to something better than being killed if we asked for more food. too right we ain't putting up with shit."
You are a perfect example of why people vote Trump and brexit !
Cheers keep it up |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *orum TrollWoman
over a year ago
•+• Access Denied •+• |
"I think people have had enough of the government's swaying to far to the left, the UK and USA have turned into places where people get offended by anything that's not deemed PC, hillary was obviously not fit for the Whitehouse and the American people clearly saw that. People are not happy with how government's run things today, they wanted change and trump offered it.
there's a huge backlash against liberals right now i've noticed, amongst anarchists. in the UK as well as over there.
peace is coming to an end and it actually is more down to the far right taking over with their violence and hate that is prompting this, imo.
I only see the left , smashing up cities, beating people in the streets , setting stuff on fire and stopping the general public from going about their normal day
punching nazis?
what else we supposed to do? put up with shit? our ancestors died so we could have workers rights, not even fair and equal rights but the rights to something better than being killed if we asked for more food. too right we ain't putting up with shit.
You are a perfect example of why people vote Trump and brexit !
Cheers keep it up "
most people are misinformed and need telling how to live their life. nothing to do with me at all. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The rise of populism is gaining momentum and it already happened in usa with trump, europe is following suit with elections coming up in france with marine le pen, germany and other countries, the backlash against establishment have started, can populism work or is it a challenge for the democratic system?
It's not populism. It is a dumbed down society being played by fear.
Brexit - fear of immigration, swarms of them, new cities having to be built and the Turks are coming. Remember your FB friends who shared Britain First posts thinkingbit was patriotic?
Trump - Fear of Muslims, fear of Globalism, suspicion of bad hombres and trade deals weighted against US
Social media helps by targeting you with messages that you "like" and thereby sleepwalk you into an echo chamber where you only hear what you want to hear.
Personally, I feel now like I did at the time of the WMD debate and realising that Politicians were just glorified humanoid opinion polls who sail with the prevailing wind. "
People are struggling to get with the programme and being herded by government and media without knowing it. There needs to be a move away from nationalism to globalism. A move to living the good life not the work/consume thread mill that is the destroying quality of life and the planet.
Change is happening faster and faster, deal with it, adapt, learn, better yourself, embrace other cultures, be open minded and tolerant, work hard and be nice to others while you're at it.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I think people have had enough of the government's swaying to far to the left, the UK and USA have turned into places where people get offended by anything that's not deemed PC, hillary was obviously not fit for the Whitehouse and the American people clearly saw that. People are not happy with how government's run things today, they wanted change and trump offered it.
there's a huge backlash against liberals right now i've noticed, amongst anarchists. in the UK as well as over there.
peace is coming to an end and it actually is more down to the far right taking over with their violence and hate that is prompting this, imo.
I only see the left , smashing up cities, beating people in the streets , setting stuff on fire and stopping the general public from going about their normal day
punching nazis?
what else we supposed to do? put up with shit? our ancestors died so we could have workers rights, not even fair and equal rights but the rights to something better than being killed if we asked for more food. too right we ain't putting up with shit.
You are a perfect example of why people vote Trump and brexit !
Cheers keep it up
most people are misinformed and need telling how to live their life. nothing to do with me at all."
Hitler would be proud of that Quote !!!
It makes me laugh how the left don't realise how Fascist they Are !!! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *orum TrollWoman
over a year ago
•+• Access Denied •+• |
"I think people have had enough of the government's swaying to far to the left, the UK and USA have turned into places where people get offended by anything that's not deemed PC, hillary was obviously not fit for the Whitehouse and the American people clearly saw that. People are not happy with how government's run things today, they wanted change and trump offered it.
there's a huge backlash against liberals right now i've noticed, amongst anarchists. in the UK as well as over there.
peace is coming to an end and it actually is more down to the far right taking over with their violence and hate that is prompting this, imo.
I only see the left , smashing up cities, beating people in the streets , setting stuff on fire and stopping the general public from going about their normal day
punching nazis?
what else we supposed to do? put up with shit? our ancestors died so we could have workers rights, not even fair and equal rights but the rights to something better than being killed if we asked for more food. too right we ain't putting up with shit.
You are a perfect example of why people vote Trump and brexit !
Cheers keep it up
most people are misinformed and need telling how to live their life. nothing to do with me at all.
Hitler would be proud of that Quote !!!
It makes me laugh how the left don't realise how Fascist they Are !!! "
i'm not left wing. i'm anarchist.
i laugh when bourgeois people stick up for the oligarchy. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"The rise of populism is gaining momentum and it already happened in usa with trump, europe is following suit with elections coming up in france with marine le pen, germany and other countries, the backlash against establishment have started, can populism work or is it a challenge for the democratic system?
It's not populism. It is a dumbed down society being played by fear.
"
Wasn't the Remain campaign in the EU referendum a campaign of fear though and that's why it got the nickname Project Fear. Also rather than being dumbed down I would say with the advent of the Internet people are more well informed now than they have ever been. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"The rise of populism is gaining momentum and it already happened in usa with trump, europe is following suit with elections coming up in france with marine le pen, germany and other countries, the backlash against establishment have started, can populism work or is it a challenge for the democratic system?
It's not populism. It is a dumbed down society being played by fear.
Wasn't the Remain campaign in the EU referendum a campaign of fear though and that's why it got the nickname Project Fear. Also rather than being dumbed down I would say with the advent of the Internet people are more well informed now than they have ever been. "
You'd think that with more access to information, people would eb better informed. Regrettably, it's seems like the opposite is true. Half baked ideas combined with half wits is never a good combination |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I've said it before, populism is just a word used as a derogatory term by people who dislike democracy. Mainly used by the 'Liberal Establishment', or whatever you call them, when they can't understand or accept why other peoples' policies/ideas, left, right or wherever are more popular than their own |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The rise of populism is gaining momentum and it already happened in usa with trump, europe is following suit with elections coming up in france with marine le pen, germany and other countries, the backlash against establishment have started, can populism work or is it a challenge for the democratic system?
It's not populism. It is a dumbed down society being played by fear.
Brexit - fear of immigration, swarms of them, new cities having to be built and the Turks are coming. Remember your FB friends who shared Britain First posts thinkingbit was patriotic?
Trump - Fear of Muslims, fear of Globalism, suspicion of bad hombres and trade deals weighted against US
Social media helps by targeting you with messages that you "like" and thereby sleepwalk you into an echo chamber where you only hear what you want to hear.
Personally, I feel now like I did at the time of the WMD debate and realising that Politicians were just glorified humanoid opinion polls who sail with the prevailing wind.
People are struggling to get with the programme and being herded by government and media without knowing it. There needs to be a move away from nationalism to globalism. A move to living the good life not the work/consume thread mill that is the destroying quality of life and the planet.
Change is happening faster and faster, deal with it, adapt, learn, better yourself, embrace other cultures, be open minded and tolerant, work hard and be nice to others while you're at it.
"
What tosh and contradiction. Your world is a tyranny in which people are denied the right to self determination because that is too "Tribal". Is gender too divisive as well? You want a monoculture Earth in which there is no ethnic and national groups.
Embrace other cultures? In their entirity? So you don't mind things like arranged marriages, bullfighting, FGM, and all the other barbaric shit from around the world? You can embrace all the shitty cultures of the world if you wish but do it there and don't the make us live with it.
Send me a postcard from Somalia btw. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I think people have had enough of the government's swaying to far to the left, the UK and USA have turned into places where people get offended by anything that's not deemed PC, hillary was obviously not fit for the Whitehouse and the American people clearly saw that. People are not happy with how government's run things today, they wanted change and trump offered it.
there's a huge backlash against liberals right now i've noticed, amongst anarchists. in the UK as well as over there.
peace is coming to an end and it actually is more down to the far right taking over with their violence and hate that is prompting this, imo.
I only see the left , smashing up cities, beating people in the streets , setting stuff on fire and stopping the general public from going about their normal day
punching nazis?
what else we supposed to do? put up with shit? our ancestors died so we could have workers rights, not even fair and equal rights but the rights to something better than being killed if we asked for more food. too right we ain't putting up with shit.
You are a perfect example of why people vote Trump and brexit !
Cheers keep it up "
...  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago
Barbados |
"I've said it before, populism is just a word used as a derogatory term by people who dislike democracy. Mainly used by the 'Liberal Establishment', or whatever you call them, when they can't understand or accept why other peoples' policies/ideas, left, right or wherever are more popular than their own"
No, populism is democracy turned on its head.
Democracy is where the people get to vote of the political route they believe best works for them and their values
Populism is politicians saying whatever they deem to be popular in order to win a vote. And at the moment, it seems, without scant thought for the outcome or effect on others.
-Matt |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I've said it before, populism is just a word used as a derogatory term by people who dislike democracy. Mainly used by the 'Liberal Establishment', or whatever you call them, when they can't understand or accept why other peoples' policies/ideas, left, right or wherever are more popular than their own
No, populism is democracy turned on its head.
Democracy is where the people get to vote of the political route they believe best works for them and their values
Populism is politicians saying whatever they deem to be popular in order to win a vote. And at the moment, it seems, without scant thought for the outcome or effect on others.
-Matt"
I rest my case  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"I've said it before, populism is just a word used as a derogatory term by people who dislike democracy. Mainly used by the 'Liberal Establishment', or whatever you call them, when they can't understand or accept why other peoples' policies/ideas, left, right or wherever are more popular than their own"
I think that you are wrong because populism is a reaction to fear, and fear is a significant motivator, Populism actually reflects the political ideals of people who are scared of the changing world around them and who feel that they are helpless to change it. This fear is very easily inflamed by the choice use of language by Politicians. Populism is a politically correct way of for simple people to react to simple politics, it is the very opposite of a derogatory term. It should be called dumbism.
Take Trump as an example. Populist President of the dumbest country on the planet. He barrages his disciples daily and stokes their darkest fears to keep them motivated. His tweets are designed to do one thing only - keep people afraid and thereby keep them on side.
The really frightening thing is that history has shown us how people can be manipulated by Leaders who peddle fear and we appear to have not learned that lesson. Today people are bombarded on their own social media by stories that that suit their agenda simply because of the things they like and algorithms sending them more and more of what they like. It then becomes a chore to go out of their way to find an alternative message.
Trump peddles lies and he generates an idea of an open border through which terrorists are flooding in. It just is not true and never has been. But if you are a simple person and are afraid of change you want a tough guy to solve this problem - even if the problem does not even exist.
Similar things with Brexit, remember the use of words by some politicians and news outlets.
Swarms of refugees
Breaking point
Massing on the border
Millions of Turks ready to come
Etc etc etc
If you don't want, or don't care to fully examine these claims because it is easier to simply believe them then you are reacting to dumbism... I mean populism. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I've said it before, populism is just a word used as a derogatory term by people who dislike democracy. Mainly used by the 'Liberal Establishment', or whatever you call them, when they can't understand or accept why other peoples' policies/ideas, left, right or wherever are more popular than their own
I think that you are wrong because populism is a reaction to fear, and fear is a significant motivator, Populism actually reflects the political ideals of people who are scared of the changing world around them and who feel that they are helpless to change it. This fear is very easily inflamed by the choice use of language by Politicians. Populism is a politically correct way of for simple people to react to simple politics, it is the very opposite of a derogatory term. It should be called dumbism.
Take Trump as an example. Populist President of the dumbest country on the planet. He barrages his disciples daily and stokes their darkest fears to keep them motivated. His tweets are designed to do one thing only - keep people afraid and thereby keep them on side.
The really frightening thing is that history has shown us how people can be manipulated by Leaders who peddle fear and we appear to have not learned that lesson. Today people are bombarded on their own social media by stories that that suit their agenda simply because of the things they like and algorithms sending them more and more of what they like. It then becomes a chore to go out of their way to find an alternative message.
Trump peddles lies and he generates an idea of an open border through which terrorists are flooding in. It just is not true and never has been. But if you are a simple person and are afraid of change you want a tough guy to solve this problem - even if the problem does not even exist.
Similar things with Brexit, remember the use of words by some politicians and news outlets.
Swarms of refugees
Breaking point
Massing on the border
Millions of Turks ready to come
Etc etc etc
If you don't want, or don't care to fully examine these claims because it is easier to simply believe them then you are reacting to dumbism... I mean populism."
and again you prove my point |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The rise of populism is gaining momentum and it already happened in usa with trump, europe is following suit with elections coming up in france with marine le pen, germany and other countries, the backlash against establishment have started, can populism work or is it a challenge for the democratic system?
It's not populism. It is a dumbed down society being played by fear.
Wasn't the Remain campaign in the EU referendum a campaign of fear though and that's why it got the nickname Project Fear. Also rather than being dumbed down I would say with the advent of the Internet people are more well informed now than they have ever been. "
Most of those fears are coming through but you lack the objectivity to see it. I'm talking about going a level higher, building a strong society where everybody is economically OK and all of a sudden the bullshit rhetoric about swamped NHS systems or wage deflation as an excuse to attack they neighbour is seen for how silly it really is. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The rise of populism is gaining momentum and it already happened in usa with trump, europe is following suit with elections coming up in france with marine le pen, germany and other countries, the backlash against establishment have started, can populism work or is it a challenge for the democratic system?
It's not populism. It is a dumbed down society being played by fear.
Brexit - fear of immigration, swarms of them, new cities having to be built and the Turks are coming. Remember your FB friends who shared Britain First posts thinkingbit was patriotic?
Trump - Fear of Muslims, fear of Globalism, suspicion of bad hombres and trade deals weighted against US
Social media helps by targeting you with messages that you "like" and thereby sleepwalk you into an echo chamber where you only hear what you want to hear.
Personally, I feel now like I did at the time of the WMD debate and realising that Politicians were just glorified humanoid opinion polls who sail with the prevailing wind.
People are struggling to get with the programme and being herded by government and media without knowing it. There needs to be a move away from nationalism to globalism. A move to living the good life not the work/consume thread mill that is the destroying quality of life and the planet.
Change is happening faster and faster, deal with it, adapt, learn, better yourself, embrace other cultures, be open minded and tolerant, work hard and be nice to others while you're at it.
What tosh and contradiction. Your world is a tyranny in which people are denied the right to self determination because that is too "Tribal". Is gender too divisive as well? You want a monoculture Earth in which there is no ethnic and national groups.
Embrace other cultures? In their entirity? So you don't mind things like arranged marriages, bullfighting, FGM, and all the other barbaric shit from around the world? You can embrace all the shitty cultures of the world if you wish but do it there and don't the make us live with it.
Send me a postcard from Somalia btw."
It's the opposite. Your world is a tyranny because people can't think for themselves out of fear.
You strike me as someone who has read alot (in the echo chamber) but not travelled much. Where you see enemies in people who don't look like you, I see potential friends. You don't see the good in people because you haven't experienced it and you don't get that people are generally only violent when deprived or provoked.
I don't agree with all cultural practices the same as I don't agree with your brits first culture or celeb culture or consumer culture. You can be as ethnic as you want but don't attack others for doing the same. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Populism - Orwellian Newspeak for democracy
Populism - politically correct description of dumb politics for dumb people "
thanks again
see my earlier post on derogatory term and inability to accept other views |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Nothing will change in politics! The colours may change, but it's the same old thing. Once upon a time people went into politics to serve the country - now it's a career! Not bad pay £74,000 basic pay, expenses and a pension most of us can only dream about. After 15 years in the job a pot of £900,000 & 20 years £1.2m. They have no idea what it's like to be on "the bread line" they are fully protected. Politicians look after themselves, first & foremost and spin the " alternative facts". If brexit works for the UK they will be heroes - quite right too! BUT if it doesn't how many will "fall on their sword" & quit? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I've said it before, populism is just a word used as a derogatory term by people who dislike democracy. Mainly used by the 'Liberal Establishment', or whatever you call them, when they can't understand or accept why other peoples' policies/ideas, left, right or wherever are more popular than their own
I think that you are wrong because populism is a reaction to fear, and fear is a significant motivator, Populism actually reflects the political ideals of people who are scared of the changing world around them and who feel that they are helpless to change it. This fear is very easily inflamed by the choice use of language by Politicians. Populism is a politically correct way of for simple people to react to simple politics, it is the very opposite of a derogatory term. It should be called dumbism.
Take Trump as an example. Populist President of the dumbest country on the planet. He barrages his disciples daily and stokes their darkest fears to keep them motivated. His tweets are designed to do one thing only - keep people afraid and thereby keep them on side.
The really frightening thing is that history has shown us how people can be manipulated by Leaders who peddle fear and we appear to have not learned that lesson. Today people are bombarded on their own social media by stories that that suit their agenda simply because of the things they like and algorithms sending them more and more of what they like. It then becomes a chore to go out of their way to find an alternative message.
Trump peddles lies and he generates an idea of an open border through which terrorists are flooding in. It just is not true and never has been. But if you are a simple person and are afraid of change you want a tough guy to solve this problem - even if the problem does not even exist.
Similar things with Brexit, remember the use of words by some politicians and news outlets.
Swarms of refugees
Breaking point
Massing on the border
Millions of Turks ready to come
Etc etc etc
If you don't want, or don't care to fully examine these claims because it is easier to simply believe them then you are reacting to dumbism... I mean populism."
Say what you see .Call it out.  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"violence is the only way to change anything. why do you think they keep starting wars?"
That is right it is as they have to move with time and not live in the past.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Why are people upset that those on left punch nazis .I would have them against the wall and the next of kin sent a bill for the bullet.People seem to think the left are tolerant.Not me i have zero tolerance for the new alt right.
Ive never been liberal but i do want capitalism to be socially responsible. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"what is the difference in populism and democracy?"
Nothing. Populism is dumbed down politics where political leaders pray on the insecurities of people as a means to get power in order to shaft the very people who were manipulated to vote. (Example - look how Trump is suuccessfully draining the swamp whilst reminding his disciples every day about the enemy at the door).
Democracy "should" be about people making informed decisions having reasonably expected to have been told the truth about the issues that they are voting on. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"what is the difference in populism and democracy?
Nothing. Populism is dumbed down politics where political leaders pray on the insecurities of people as a means to get power in order to shaft the very people who were manipulated to vote. (Example - look how Trump is suuccessfully draining the swamp whilst reminding his disciples every day about the enemy at the door).
Democracy "should" be about people making informed decisions having reasonably expected to have been told the truth about the issues that they are voting on."
Some aspects might be dumbed down, some aspects might just be saying what people think. For many years we have seen all the mainstream parties at conference time, saying things like 'what policies do we need to introduce, to ensure we get in power next time?'
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"violence is the only way to change anything. why do you think they keep starting wars?Very sad reflection on life maybe in part true but we must find better ways"
Its a necessary tool for our times.Some people only understand violence.We haven't evolved as much as we like to think.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *orum TrollWoman
over a year ago
•+• Access Denied •+• |
"most of my people are probably left wing though.
What is an anarchist to you?"
no hierarchy state, mainly. and that the people know what they need more than the state does.
PS:
People who say that violence doesn't accomplish anything have not read history. I don't celebrate that reality, but there you have it.
Cleve Jones
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
Some people on this thread need to look up the meaning of the word Populism in the Dictionary.
From the Oxford English dictionary, the definition of Populism is as follows - Support for the concerns of ordinary people.
There it is in a nutshell. The liberal elite and the career politicians have stopped listening to the concerns of ordinary people. They look down on ordinary people, they sneer at the concerns of ordinary people. When ordinary people raise concerns about immigration they get labelled as racist or xenophobic. Populist leaders like Donald Trump and populist movements like Brexit listen to and support the concerns of ordinary people. They listen and offer solutions.
By contrast the liberal elite and the career politicians don't listen, they ignore the concerns of ordinary people, they live the good life in their ivory towers and they don't have a clue how ordinary people live or the struggles that ordinary people go through in their daily lives.
Now finally ordinary people are waking up and are saying they've had enough!
It's time for change, big change, huge change and I think Brexit and Trump are just the start. There will be a few more upsets for the liberal elite in elections this year and the upsets will continue until the liberal elite and the career politicians start listening to and taking seriously the concerns of ordinary people.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"most of my people are probably left wing though.
What is an anarchist to you?
no hierarchy state, mainly. and that the people know what they need more than the state does.
PS:
People who say that violence doesn't accomplish anything have not read history. I don't celebrate that reality, but there you have it.
Cleve Jones
"
Similar libertarianism. I think the people often dont see the big picture.I'd prefer a meritocratic system or technocratic. Democracy has served its purpose. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Some people on this thread need to look up the meaning of the word Populism in the Dictionary.
From the Oxford English dictionary, the definition of Populism is as follows - Support for the concerns of ordinary people.
There it is in a nutshell. The liberal elite and the career politicians have stopped listening to the concerns of ordinary people. They look down on ordinary people, they sneer at the concerns of ordinary people. When ordinary people raise concerns about immigration they get labelled as racist or xenophobic. Populist leaders like Donald Trump and populist movements like Brexit listen to and support the concerns of ordinary people. They listen and offer solutions.
By contrast the liberal elite and the career politicians don't listen, they ignore the concerns of ordinary people, they live the good life in their ivory towers and they don't have a clue how ordinary people live or the struggles that ordinary people go through in their daily lives.
Now finally ordinary people are waking up and are saying they've had enough!
It's time for change, big change, huge change and I think Brexit and Trump are just the start. There will be a few more upsets for the liberal elite in elections this year and the upsets will continue until the liberal elite and the career politicians start listening to and taking seriously the concerns of ordinary people.
"
Definition of the word liberal? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *orum TrollWoman
over a year ago
•+• Access Denied •+• |
"most of my people are probably left wing though.
What is an anarchist to you?
no hierarchy state, mainly. and that the people know what they need more than the state does.
PS:
People who say that violence doesn't accomplish anything have not read history. I don't celebrate that reality, but there you have it.
Cleve Jones
Similar libertarianism. I think the people often dont see the big picture.I'd prefer a meritocratic system or technocratic. Democracy has served its purpose. "
technocratic should be what we're aiming for, and we kind of are because computers have been calculating decisions for us for decades already.
even my teenage son, who has special needs, has asked what will happen when robots take over all the jobs and i told him nobody is preparing us for that. and nobody is. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
Democracy works best with an educated population not suffering from threat. In fact, it functions very well under these circumstances.
However, under economic pressure when times are not good people don't want choice. The problems and choices in priorities needed to run country are intricate and complex. People don't want this. They want a simple answer that will make their lives better. Sadly this often takes the form of blaming the "other". This has happened countless times in history.
This is perhaps the first time when we've been able to blame three things at the same time; the EU, immigrants and Muslims.
Lucky us. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"
I think that you are wrong because populism is a reaction to fear, and fear is a significant motivator, Populism actually reflects the political ideals of people who are scared of the changing world around them and who feel that they are helpless to change it. This fear is very easily inflamed by the choice use of language by Politicians. Populism is a politically correct way of for simple people to react to simple politics, it is the very opposite of a derogatory term. It should be called dumbism.
Take Trump as an example. Populist President of the dumbest country on the planet. He barrages his disciples daily and stokes their darkest fears to keep them motivated. His tweets are designed to do one thing only - keep people afraid and thereby keep them on side.
The really frightening thing is that history has shown us how people can be manipulated by Leaders who peddle fear and we appear to have not learned that lesson. Today people are bombarded on their own social media by stories that that suit their agenda simply because of the things they like and algorithms sending them more and more of what they like. It then becomes a chore to go out of their way to find an alternative message.
Trump peddles lies and he generates an idea of an open border through which terrorists are flooding in. It just is not true and never has been. But if you are a simple person and are afraid of change you want a tough guy to solve this problem - even if the problem does not even exist.
Similar things with Brexit, remember the use of words by some politicians and news outlets.
Swarms of refugees
Breaking point
Massing on the border
Millions of Turks ready to come
Etc etc etc
If you don't want, or don't care to fully examine these claims because it is easier to simply believe them then you are reacting to dumbism... I mean populism."
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Some people on this thread need to look up the meaning of the word Populism in the Dictionary.
From the Oxford English dictionary, the definition of Populism is as follows - Support for the concerns of ordinary people.
There it is in a nutshell. The liberal elite and the career politicians have stopped listening to the concerns of ordinary people. They look down on ordinary people, they sneer at the concerns of ordinary people. When ordinary people raise concerns about immigration they get labelled as racist or xenophobic. Populist leaders like Donald Trump and populist movements like Brexit listen to and support the concerns of ordinary people. They listen and offer solutions.
By contrast the liberal elite and the career politicians don't listen, they ignore the concerns of ordinary people, they live the good life in their ivory towers and they don't have a clue how ordinary people live or the struggles that ordinary people go through in their daily lives.
Now finally ordinary people are waking up and are saying they've had enough!
It's time for change, big change, huge change and I think Brexit and Trump are just the start. There will be a few more upsets for the liberal elite in elections this year and the upsets will continue until the liberal elite and the career politicians start listening to and taking seriously the concerns of ordinary people.
"
.....Well said....I'm looking forward to Frances new Madam president and the EU collapsing in the next two years. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"
Wasn't the Remain campaign in the EU referendum a campaign of fear though and that's why it got the nickname Project Fear. Also rather than being dumbed down I would say with the advent of the Internet people are more well informed now than they have ever been. "
I had a leaflet with a map marked with Turkey and Syria on it.
I saw a poster with a "swarm" of refugees on the other side of a fence.
You are right though, fear is a pretty nasty political tool to deploy and the remain campaign shouldn't have used it.
It worked for the Conservative party in the general election though.
It would be interest interesting to know why not in London for the Mayor |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Some people on this thread need to look up the meaning of the word Populism in the Dictionary.
From the Oxford English dictionary, the definition of Populism is as follows - Support for the concerns of ordinary people.
There it is in a nutshell. The liberal elite and the career politicians have stopped listening to the concerns of ordinary people. They look down on ordinary people, they sneer at the concerns of ordinary people. When ordinary people raise concerns about immigration they get labelled as racist or xenophobic. Populist leaders like Donald Trump and populist movements like Brexit listen to and support the concerns of ordinary people. They listen and offer solutions.
By contrast the liberal elite and the career politicians don't listen, they ignore the concerns of ordinary people, they live the good life in their ivory towers and they don't have a clue how ordinary people live or the struggles that ordinary people go through in their daily lives.
Now finally ordinary people are waking up and are saying they've had enough!
It's time for change, big change, huge change and I think Brexit and Trump are just the start. There will be a few more upsets for the liberal elite in elections this year and the upsets will continue until the liberal elite and the career politicians start listening to and taking seriously the concerns of ordinary people.
.....Well said....I'm looking forward to Frances new Madam president and the EU collapsing in the next two years."
Yes, because that will be a great outcome... |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"
.....Well said....I'm looking forward to Frances new Madam president and the EU collapsing in the next two years.
Yes, because that will be a great outcome..."
Because the break up of the EU is the singletons important evil that humanity has ever faced and its destruction is far more important than anything including kindness, tolerance the rule of law and facts before belief.
Obviously |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
It does make me laugh how some on here deride populists as thick, stupid and dumb. Yet how much more thick, stupid and dumb must those be who oppose populism if they lose the debate and subsequent votes (Brexit and Trump). It's clear to me who really are the dumbed down section of society. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"Some people on this thread need to look up the meaning of the word Populism in the Dictionary.
From the Oxford English dictionary, the definition of Populism is as follows - Support for the concerns of ordinary people.
There it is in a nutshell. The liberal elite and the career politicians have stopped listening to the concerns of ordinary people. They look down on ordinary people, they sneer at the concerns of ordinary people. When ordinary people raise concerns about immigration they get labelled as racist or xenophobic. Populist leaders like Donald Trump and populist movements like Brexit listen to and support the concerns of ordinary people. They listen and offer solutions.
By contrast the liberal elite and the career politicians don't listen, they ignore the concerns of ordinary people, they live the good life in their ivory towers and they don't have a clue how ordinary people live or the struggles that ordinary people go through in their daily lives.
Now finally ordinary people are waking up and are saying they've had enough!
It's time for change, big change, huge change and I think Brexit and Trump are just the start. There will be a few more upsets for the liberal elite in elections this year and the upsets will continue until the liberal elite and the career politicians start listening to and taking seriously the concerns of ordinary people.
Definition of the word liberal?"
What about the definitioon of elite?? I mean how can anyone say that elitism is on its way out and point to Donald Trump as the means to achieve it.
Donald Trump (seems legit!).... "I am going to make America great again. I am going to change things by appointing more billionnaires just like me and we are definately going to change things so people like us can't be billionaires anymore. Yep, we are going to drain the swamp of millionaires and replace them with billionaires and we will do that just beautifully whilst I have got you scared shitless of Muslims and bad hombres. You dopey fucking twats" |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"most of my people are probably left wing though.
What is an anarchist to you?
no hierarchy state, mainly. and that the people know what they need more than the state does.
PS:
People who say that violence doesn't accomplish anything have not read history. I don't celebrate that reality, but there you have it.
Cleve Jones
Similar libertarianism. I think the people often dont see the big picture.I'd prefer a meritocratic system or technocratic. Democracy has served its purpose.
technocratic should be what we're aiming for, and we kind of are because computers have been calculating decisions for us for decades already.
even my teenage son, who has special needs, has asked what will happen when robots take over all the jobs and i told him nobody is preparing us for that. and nobody is."
Technocracy would be my choice also.In many ways its here behind the scenes.The big money has moved out of oil into the tech firms.Just about everything that benfits humanity is based on science and technology. The advent of the comming singularity will be the final nail in democracies coffin.Your son is right in 20 years 30% of all jobs will be done by robots.People like elon musk will help pave the way. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *orum TrollWoman
over a year ago
•+• Access Denied •+• |
"most of my people are probably left wing though.
What is an anarchist to you?
no hierarchy state, mainly. and that the people know what they need more than the state does.
PS:
People who say that violence doesn't accomplish anything have not read history. I don't celebrate that reality, but there you have it.
Cleve Jones
Similar libertarianism. I think the people often dont see the big picture.I'd prefer a meritocratic system or technocratic. Democracy has served its purpose.
technocratic should be what we're aiming for, and we kind of are because computers have been calculating decisions for us for decades already.
even my teenage son, who has special needs, has asked what will happen when robots take over all the jobs and i told him nobody is preparing us for that. and nobody is.
Technocracy would be my choice also.In many ways its here behind the scenes.The big money has moved out of oil into the tech firms.Just about everything that benfits humanity is based on science and technology. The advent of the comming singularity will be the final nail in democracies coffin.Your son is right in 20 years 30% of all jobs will be done by robots.People like elon musk will help pave the way."
jaques fresco as well. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"most of my people are probably left wing though.
What is an anarchist to you?
no hierarchy state, mainly. and that the people know what they need more than the state does.
PS:
People who say that violence doesn't accomplish anything have not read history. I don't celebrate that reality, but there you have it.
Cleve Jones
Similar libertarianism. I think the people often dont see the big picture.I'd prefer a meritocratic system or technocratic. Democracy has served its purpose.
technocratic should be what we're aiming for, and we kind of are because computers have been calculating decisions for us for decades already.
even my teenage son, who has special needs, has asked what will happen when robots take over all the jobs and i told him nobody is preparing us for that. and nobody is.
Technocracy would be my choice also.In many ways its here behind the scenes.The big money has moved out of oil into the tech firms.Just about everything that benfits humanity is based on science and technology. The advent of the comming singularity will be the final nail in democracies coffin.Your son is right in 20 years 30% of all jobs will be done by robots.People like elon musk will help pave the way.
jaques fresco as well. "
Yeah hes a great guy! with great ideas.Unfortunately he doesn't elons billions to build the future.A resource based society is inevitable. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *orum TrollWoman
over a year ago
•+• Access Denied •+• |
"most of my people are probably left wing though.
What is an anarchist to you?
no hierarchy state, mainly. and that the people know what they need more than the state does.
PS:
People who say that violence doesn't accomplish anything have not read history. I don't celebrate that reality, but there you have it.
Cleve Jones
Similar libertarianism. I think the people often dont see the big picture.I'd prefer a meritocratic system or technocratic. Democracy has served its purpose.
technocratic should be what we're aiming for, and we kind of are because computers have been calculating decisions for us for decades already.
even my teenage son, who has special needs, has asked what will happen when robots take over all the jobs and i told him nobody is preparing us for that. and nobody is.
Technocracy would be my choice also.In many ways its here behind the scenes.The big money has moved out of oil into the tech firms.Just about everything that benfits humanity is based on science and technology. The advent of the comming singularity will be the final nail in democracies coffin.Your son is right in 20 years 30% of all jobs will be done by robots.People like elon musk will help pave the way.
jaques fresco as well. Yeah hes a great guy! with great ideas.Unfortunately he doesn't elons billions to build the future.A resource based society is inevitable. "
he's had these ideas longer than the computers have been running things. but i like how he's got to live in his society by now.
i'll be gutted when he dies. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The rise of populism is gaining momentum and it already happened in usa with trump, europe is following suit with elections coming up in france with marine le pen, germany and other countries, the backlash against establishment have started, can populism work or is it a challenge for the democratic system?"
Are you using the correct term there....populism means it is popular..... so isn't that already in place..... populism feeds democracy....? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"
Are you using the correct term there....populism means it is popular..... so isn't that already in place..... populism feeds democracy....?"
The word populism is being misused as a term of derision. However, if that is the case you probably have to accept that the term liberal is being abused in the same way don't you? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"The rise of populism is gaining momentum and it already happened in usa with trump, europe is following suit with elections coming up in france with marine le pen, germany and other countries, the backlash against establishment have started, can populism work or is it a challenge for the democratic system?
Are you using the correct term there....populism means it is popular..... so isn't that already in place..... populism feeds democracy....?"
Yes I think I do there, isnt it people power against establishment? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"most of my people are probably left wing though.
What is an anarchist to you?
no hierarchy state, mainly. and that the people know what they need more than the state does.
PS:
People who say that violence doesn't accomplish anything have not read history. I don't celebrate that reality, but there you have it.
Cleve Jones
Similar libertarianism. I think the people often dont see the big picture.I'd prefer a meritocratic system or technocratic. Democracy has served its purpose.
technocratic should be what we're aiming for, and we kind of are because computers have been calculating decisions for us for decades already.
even my teenage son, who has special needs, has asked what will happen when robots take over all the jobs and i told him nobody is preparing us for that. and nobody is.
Technocracy would be my choice also.In many ways its here behind the scenes.The big money has moved out of oil into the tech firms.Just about everything that benfits humanity is based on science and technology. The advent of the comming singularity will be the final nail in democracies coffin.Your son is right in 20 years 30% of all jobs will be done by robots.People like elon musk will help pave the way.
jaques fresco as well. Yeah hes a great guy! with great ideas.Unfortunately he doesn't elons billions to build the future.A resource based society is inevitable.
he's had these ideas longer than the computers have been running things. but i like how he's got to live in his society by now.
i'll be gutted when he dies."
yes a true visionary.A great futurist and so likeable .A great human being. Luckily we have others like Jacques with billions to spend on the future.The new generation of billionaire philanthropists. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"What's this singularity bob? "
The technological singularity (also, simply, the singularity) is the hypothesis that the invention of artificial superintelligence will abruptly trigger runaway technological growth, resulting in unfathomable changes to human civilization. According to this hypothesis, an upgradable intelligent agent (such as a computer running software-based artificial general intelligence) would enter a 'runaway reaction' of self-improvement cycles, with each new and more intelligent generation appearing more and more rapidly, causing an intelligence explosion and resulting in a powerful superintelligence that would, qualitatively, far surpass all human intelligence.The singularity is predicted to occur in the 2030s.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"What's this singularity bob? The technological singularity (also, simply, the singularity) is the hypothesis that the invention of artificial superintelligence will abruptly trigger runaway technological growth, resulting in unfathomable changes to human civilization. According to this hypothesis, an upgradable intelligent agent (such as a computer running software-based artificial general intelligence) would enter a 'runaway reaction' of self-improvement cycles, with each new and more intelligent generation appearing more and more rapidly, causing an intelligence explosion and resulting in a powerful superintelligence that would, qualitatively, far surpass all human intelligence.The singularity is predicted to occur in the 2030s."
Wow, that is quite a concept and also has plausibilty.
As a side note, it's funny how a thread about the rise of Populism morphs into other fields! Not a criticism, just amusing!
I'm going to fit big mechanical on/off switches and bottles of salt water alongside my PCs now!
As the 'internet of things' grows this singularity concept gets even more intrusive.... |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *oyce69Man
over a year ago
Driffield |
"What's this singularity bob? The technological singularity (also, simply, the singularity) is the hypothesis that the invention of artificial superintelligence will abruptly trigger runaway technological growth, resulting in unfathomable changes to human civilization. According to this hypothesis, an upgradable intelligent agent (such as a computer running software-based artificial general intelligence) would enter a 'runaway reaction' of self-improvement cycles, with each new and more intelligent generation appearing more and more rapidly, causing an intelligence explosion and resulting in a powerful superintelligence that would, qualitatively, far surpass all human intelligence.The singularity is predicted to occur in the 2030s.
Wow, that is quite a concept and also has plausibilty.
As a side note, it's funny how a thread about the rise of Populism morphs into other fields! Not a criticism, just amusing!
I'm going to fit big mechanical on/off switches and bottles of salt water alongside my PCs now!
As the 'internet of things' grows this singularity concept gets even more intrusive...."
Wow! you mean you understand what bob was saying, he lost me in the first sentence.  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
Wow! you mean you understand what bob was saying, he lost me in the first sentence. "
A big super-clever computer links up with the others and controls what it wants. Would be a purposely over-simplistic version. Could be feasible.....
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"What's this singularity bob? The technological singularity (also, simply, the singularity) is the hypothesis that the invention of artificial superintelligence will abruptly trigger runaway technological growth, resulting in unfathomable changes to human civilization. According to this hypothesis, an upgradable intelligent agent (such as a computer running software-based artificial general intelligence) would enter a 'runaway reaction' of self-improvement cycles, with each new and more intelligent generation appearing more and more rapidly, causing an intelligence explosion and resulting in a powerful superintelligence that would, qualitatively, far surpass all human intelligence.The singularity is predicted to occur in the 2030s.
Wow, that is quite a concept and also has plausibilty.
As a side note, it's funny how a thread about the rise of Populism morphs into other fields! Not a criticism, just amusing!
I'm going to fit big mechanical on/off switches and bottles of salt water alongside my PCs now!
As the 'internet of things' grows this singularity concept gets even more intrusive...."
Colossus - The Forbidden Project. A film in the 70s.
On TV when I was young. The US defence computer becomes sentient, does a deal with the Russian one and takes over the world, for our benefit because we're such numpties.
On current experience there's something to be said for that... |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
Wow! you mean you understand what bob was saying, he lost me in the first sentence.
A big super-clever computer links up with the others and controls what it wants. Would be a purposely over-simplistic version. Could be feasible.....
"
Yep, my company is quite into machine learning for spotting anomalies within networks. Learning how the flows work at any given point and looking for what does not fit.
The next stage would then be to automatically take steps to verify these anomalous events and rectify when required.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
On TV when I was young. The US defence computer becomes sentient, does a deal with the Russian one and takes over the world, for our benefit because we're such numpties.
On current experience there's something to be said for that..."
Yes. Let's say all the tech firms get together and build a a huge artificial intelligence computer to solve the world of its problems. It might decide that humans are the ones destroying the world and its creatures and therefore fix the problem..... |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
On TV when I was young. The US defence computer becomes sentient, does a deal with the Russian one and takes over the world, for our benefit because we're such numpties.
On current experience there's something to be said for that...
Yes. Let's say all the tech firms get together and build a a huge artificial intelligence computer to solve the world of its problems. It might decide that humans are the ones destroying the world and its creatures and therefore fix the problem....."
Super computers already exist now. Google the D-wave quantum computer and have a look at it. It's the next generation in super computers/quantum computing and many times more powerful than our most advanced conventional super computers. A D-wave computer costs millions and one already controls the large hadron collider at CERN on the France/Switzerland border. Some are saying the D-wave quantum computer is so powerful it could become self aware and artificially intelligent. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I'm optimistic that it won't happen. But it could I guess.
What I know of AI is that is intelligent in a very focused domain and stupid in the others.. Doing one task extremely well. For now |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I'm optimistic that it won't happen. But it could I guess.
What I know of AI is that is intelligent in a very focused domain and stupid in the others.. Doing one task extremely well. For now"
Yes. The idea of artificial intelligence is to crack the way to allow it gain knowledge in the same way as a human brain would.
At the moment things tend to be programmed to do specific tasks. Some AI can learn thing like learning the best method round a maze i.e very basic stuff.
But technology advances at a rapid rate. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I'm optimistic that it won't happen. But it could I guess.
What I know of AI is that is intelligent in a very focused domain and stupid in the others.. Doing one task extremely well. For now
Yes. The idea of artificial intelligence is to crack the way to allow it gain knowledge in the same way as a human brain would.
At the moment things tend to be programmed to do specific tasks. Some AI can learn thing like learning the best method round a maze i.e very basic stuff.
But technology advances at a rapid rate."
We are way beyond mazes.IBMs watson for example or the british deepmind start up bought by google.Even autonomous drones dropped from a fighter jet are a reality now .Swarms of them select targets. kurzweil is the man you need to look up.Hes at Google .
Google has bought almost every machine-learning and robotics company it can find, or at least, rates.Google has gone on an unprecedented shopping spree spending billions and is in the throes of assembling what looks like the greatest artificial intelligence laboratory on Earth.Its a when not if it happens situation.It will be the last invention of the human race,because the AI will invent everything therafter.One of its first tasks will be to create a faster better AI then the intelligence explosion begins..We will be like snails are to us on the IQ scale compared to AI.Some fear it as they say our species will be obsolete. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I'm optimistic that it won't happen. But it could I guess.
What I know of AI is that is intelligent in a very focused domain and stupid in the others.. Doing one task extremely well. For now
Yes. The idea of artificial intelligence is to crack the way to allow it gain knowledge in the same way as a human brain would.
At the moment things tend to be programmed to do specific tasks. Some AI can learn thing like learning the best method round a maze i.e very basic stuff.
But technology advances at a rapid rate."
"AI" is way beyond " learning mazes" .
It can learn, it can do complex decision making, and appear almost equal to human intelligence. In some cases, it can out perform human intelligence, including making quite complex decisions based on data and probabilities.
However, and this is the biggest problem, it has not yet got the most important human qualities of intuition and solving of dilemmas . And indeed " original thinking".
That key thing which as humans, having looked at every available fact, we " know" that it is better to do something else.
AI is an extremely powerful tool ( frightening in some cases) and is fantastic if used correctly as an aid to decision making , because it can calculate faster than humans, but it presently cannot solve the difficult dilemmas we are faced with constantly. Much of which is based on " morality " and feeling.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ammskiMan
over a year ago
lytham st.annes |
"I'm optimistic that it won't happen. But it could I guess.
What I know of AI is that is intelligent in a very focused domain and stupid in the others.. Doing one task extremely well. For now
Yes. The idea of artificial intelligence is to crack the way to allow it gain knowledge in the same way as a human brain would.Who programmes it's human ?
At the moment things tend to be programmed to do specific tasks. Some AI can learn thing like learning the best method round a maze i.e very basic stuff.
But technology advances at a rapid rate.
"AI" is way beyond " learning mazes" .
It can learn, it can do complex decision making, and appear almost equal to human intelligence. In some cases, it can out perform human intelligence, including making quite complex decisions based on data and probabilities.
However, and this is the biggest problem, it has not yet got the most important human qualities of intuition and solving of dilemmas . And indeed " original thinking".
That key thing which as humans, having looked at every available fact, we " know" that it is better to do something else.
AI is an extremely powerful tool ( frightening in some cases) and is fantastic if used correctly as an aid to decision making , because it can calculate faster than humans, but it presently cannot solve the difficult dilemmas we are faced with constantly. Much of which is based on " morality " and feeling.
"
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
But technology advances at a rapid rate.
"AI" is way beyond " learning mazes" .
It can learn, it can do complex decision making, and appear almost equal to human intelligence. In some cases, it can out perform human intelligence, including making quite complex decisions based on data and probabilities.
However, and this is the biggest problem, it has not yet got the most important human qualities of intuition and solving of dilemmas . And indeed " original thinking".
That key thing which as humans, having looked at every available fact, we " know" that it is better to do something else.
AI is an extremely powerful tool ( frightening in some cases) and is fantastic if used correctly as an aid to decision making , because it can calculate faster than humans, but it presently cannot solve the difficult dilemmas we are faced with constantly. Much of which is based on " morality " and feeling.
"
I agree, the learning mazes example is very old. As the other poster noted, google is adept at this. That is one of the main reasons the search engine is so good as it learns good useful sites and how to link them to search phrases in a way that is useful to a human.
The biggest problem is morality. A young child is very intelligent and can learn quickly, but it will also push another child in the face to get the toy train. A hyper capable AI system linked to other machines around the world would be a difficult thing to contain if it had 'intelligence' but no morality. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ammskiMan
over a year ago
lytham st.annes |
"
But technology advances at a rapid rate.
"AI" is way beyond " learning mazes" .
It can learn, it can do complex decision making, and appear almost equal to human intelligence. In some cases, it can out perform human intelligence, including making quite complex decisions based on data and probabilities.
However, and this is the biggest problem, it has not yet got the most important human qualities of intuition and solving of dilemmas . And indeed " original thinking".
That key thing which as humans, having looked at every available fact, we " know" that it is better to do something else.
AI is an extremely powerful tool ( frightening in some cases) and is fantastic if used correctly as an aid to decision making , because it can calculate faster than humans, but it presently cannot solve the difficult dilemmas we are faced with constantly. Much of which is based on " morality " and feeling.
I agree, the learning mazes example is very old. As the other poster noted, google is adept at this. That is one of the main reasons the search engine is so good as it learns good useful sites and how to link them to search phrases in a way that is useful to a human.
The biggest problem is morality. A young child is very intelligent and can learn quickly, but it will also push another child in the face to get the toy train. A hyper capable AI system linked to other machines around the world would be a difficult thing to contain if it had 'intelligence' but no morality."
Who programs it,a human ? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
But technology advances at a rapid rate.
"AI" is way beyond " learning mazes" .
It can learn, it can do complex decision making, and appear almost equal to human intelligence. In some cases, it can out perform human intelligence, including making quite complex decisions based on data and probabilities.
However, and this is the biggest problem, it has not yet got the most important human qualities of intuition and solving of dilemmas . And indeed " original thinking".
That key thing which as humans, having looked at every available fact, we " know" that it is better to do something else.
AI is an extremely powerful tool ( frightening in some cases) and is fantastic if used correctly as an aid to decision making , because it can calculate faster than humans, but it presently cannot solve the difficult dilemmas we are faced with constantly. Much of which is based on " morality " and feeling.
I agree, the learning mazes example is very old. As the other poster noted, google is adept at this. That is one of the main reasons the search engine is so good as it learns good useful sites and how to link them to search phrases in a way that is useful to a human.
The biggest problem is morality. A young child is very intelligent and can learn quickly, but it will also push another child in the face to get the toy train. A hyper capable AI system linked to other machines around the world would be a difficult thing to contain if it had 'intelligence' but no morality.Who programs it,a human ?"
Nope, humans would not be able to program to that level. We are running out of steam. Many routines are now being created by machines.
The new output of a program is a program. As this accelerates so will the ability of the AI.
It will be a nearly-AI machine, that creates the true AI... |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
But technology advances at a rapid rate.
"AI" is way beyond " learning mazes" .
It can learn, it can do complex decision making, and appear almost equal to human intelligence. In some cases, it can out perform human intelligence, including making quite complex decisions based on data and probabilities.
However, and this is the biggest problem, it has not yet got the most important human qualities of intuition and solving of dilemmas . And indeed " original thinking".
That key thing which as humans, having looked at every available fact, we " know" that it is better to do something else.
AI is an extremely powerful tool ( frightening in some cases) and is fantastic if used correctly as an aid to decision making , because it can calculate faster than humans, but it presently cannot solve the difficult dilemmas we are faced with constantly. Much of which is based on " morality " and feeling.
I agree, the learning mazes example is very old. As the other poster noted, google is adept at this. That is one of the main reasons the search engine is so good as it learns good useful sites and how to link them to search phrases in a way that is useful to a human.
The biggest problem is morality. A young child is very intelligent and can learn quickly, but it will also push another child in the face to get the toy train. A hyper capable AI system linked to other machines around the world would be a difficult thing to contain if it had 'intelligence' but no morality.Who programs it,a human ?
Nope, humans would not be able to program to that level. We are running out of steam. Many routines are now being created by machines.
The new output of a program is a program. As this accelerates so will the ability of the AI.
It will be a nearly-AI machine, that creates the true AI..."
Sorry it won't be AI, it will just be a different sort of Intelligence, potentially virtually a new "species". Let's hope they like us... |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
Don't worry, the companies creating these machines have put in a complex and foolproof method of ensuring the machines don't run away with power.
They all run on Windows, so they periodically freeze. If the machine gets out of hand we simply refuse to re-boot. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
But technology advances at a rapid rate.
"AI" is way beyond " learning mazes" .
It can learn, it can do complex decision making, and appear almost equal to human intelligence. In some cases, it can out perform human intelligence, including making quite complex decisions based on data and probabilities.
However, and this is the biggest problem, it has not yet got the most important human qualities of intuition and solving of dilemmas . And indeed " original thinking".
That key thing which as humans, having looked at every available fact, we " know" that it is better to do something else.
AI is an extremely powerful tool ( frightening in some cases) and is fantastic if used correctly as an aid to decision making , because it can calculate faster than humans, but it presently cannot solve the difficult dilemmas we are faced with constantly. Much of which is based on " morality " and feeling.
I agree, the learning mazes example is very old. As the other poster noted, google is adept at this. That is one of the main reasons the search engine is so good as it learns good useful sites and how to link them to search phrases in a way that is useful to a human.
The biggest problem is morality. A young child is very intelligent and can learn quickly, but it will also push another child in the face to get the toy train. A hyper capable AI system linked to other machines around the world would be a difficult thing to contain if it had 'intelligence' but no morality.Who programs it,a human ?
Nope, humans would not be able to program to that level. We are running out of steam. Many routines are now being created by machines.
The new output of a program is a program. As this accelerates so will the ability of the AI.
It will be a nearly-AI machine, that creates the true AI...
Sorry it won't be AI, it will just be a different sort of Intelligence, potentially virtually a new "species". Let's hope they like us..."
The hard problem to solve is consciousness. What is it.Can we recognise it in machines. Will a conscious machine make itself known. Will it just wait and watch and learn.
I dont think we can or should put humam morality or any other human emotion onto machine intelligence . Let’s face it. Humans are a species that, while having some very honorable traits, are also known to do some terribly foolish things.Genocides, slavery, child labor are just a few of them.Yet we consider ourselves having morals. Silcon intelligence will be very different from carbon based intelligence.Many like stephen hawkings think we will make our species obsolete.
When the first AI makes a super intelligent AI.We will be like snails incomparison on a IQ scale. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Don't worry, the companies creating these machines have put in a complex and foolproof method of ensuring the machines don't run away with power.
They all run on Windows, so they periodically freeze. If the machine gets out of hand we simply refuse to re-boot."
Just as nuclear fusion researchers consider the problem of containment of fusion reactions as one of the primary problems of their field, it seems inevitable that issues of control and safety will become central to AI .Some have suggested placing it in a faraday cage.Once out on the net, it would be free and unstoppable. I think from the outset we should be nice to it.By placing a super intelligence in a cage, might start us off on the wrong foot.  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I would argue that Google is much less useful than it used to be. It's no longer an honest search... It curates based on people playing seo games and advertising. It also assumes what you want to see, or more so what it wants you to see.
Give me the pre 2010 Internet any day.
I'm waiting for a smart entrepreneur to get together a competiting suite offering for a fee and zero data collection. I would gladly pay |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
I think that unbiased intelligence would conclude that humans should be tightly constrained, preventing further great damage to out home planet and fellow life-forms. AI may be built to a design that would prevent it doing this - but it may also redesign itself. Restricting or ceasing food, energy and other basic supplies would very quickly lead to chaos in our western societies. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *orum TrollWoman
over a year ago
•+• Access Denied •+• |
"I think that unbiased intelligence would conclude that humans should be tightly constrained, preventing further great damage to out home planet and fellow life-forms. AI may be built to a design that would prevent it doing this - but it may also redesign itself. Restricting or ceasing food, energy and other basic supplies would very quickly lead to chaos in our western societies. "
If it could sort out our mental health problems first then maybe not so much chaos? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
All the AI we have created so far is working on pre-programmed algorithms.... not actually free-thinking. As such artificial "true" intelligence is as far away now as it was decades ago.
However google is still an evil empire! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *aucy3Couple
over a year ago
glasgow |
"Don't worry, the companies creating these machines have put in a complex and foolproof method of ensuring the machines don't run away with power.
They all run on Windows, so they periodically freeze. If the machine gets out of hand we simply refuse to re-boot.Just as nuclear fusion researchers consider the problem of containment of fusion reactions as one of the primary problems of their field, it seems inevitable that issues of control and safety will become central to AI .Some have suggested placing it in a faraday cage.Once out on the net, it would be free and unstoppable. I think from the outset we should be nice to it.By placing a super intelligence in a cage, might start us off on the wrong foot. "
Arnold schwarzenegger already owns the franchise.
 |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
» Add a new message to this topic
