FabSwingers.com > Forums > Politics > Uk fastest growing economy
Uk fastest growing economy
Jump to: Newest in thread
 |
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
The UK is forecast to be the fastest growing economy of the G7 up until 2050. Outstripping Germany, France and Italy for the next 33 years.
All despite Brexit. Who'd a thunk it eh?
well, me for 1  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Forecast by economists? A profession that you shit all over when you don't like what they say, but hail when you do like what they say?  "
I've never shat on anybody thank you. So you disagree with them now then? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"The UK is forecast to be the fastest growing economy of the G7 up until 2050. Outstripping Germany, France and Italy for the next 33 years.
All despite Brexit. Who'd a thunk it eh?
well, me for 1 "
If it turns out to be true that will be brilliant.
If we'd have grown faster without Brexit,that would be a shame but something is better than nothing.
That is a pretty much impossible time period to predict though. Who did this prediction come from?
This assumes that international "events" don't happen I assume... |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"The UK is forecast to be the fastest growing economy of the G7 up until 2050. Outstripping Germany, France and Italy for the next 33 years.
All despite Brexit. Who'd a thunk it eh?
well, me for 1
If it turns out to be true that will be brilliant.
If we'd have grown faster without Brexit,that would be a shame but something is better than nothing.
That is a pretty much impossible time period to predict though. Who did this prediction come from?
This assumes that international "events" don't happen I assume..."
You can find the details in most papers. Even the rag called the Guardian |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"Forecast by economists? A profession that you shit all over when you don't like what they say, but hail when you do like what they say?
I've never shat on anybody thank you. So you disagree with them now then?"
Well from the quoted parts in the telegraph it says that there will be less trade with the EU, but on the other thread you said that wouldn't happen, so who is right? PwC or you? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Forecast by economists? A profession that you shit all over when you don't like what they say, but hail when you do like what they say?
I've never shat on anybody thank you. So you disagree with them now then?
Well from the quoted parts in the telegraph it says that there will be less trade with the EU, but on the other thread you said that wouldn't happen, so who is right? PwC or you? "
I actually said we are not moving trade from anywhere, I never mentioned the amount. But considering trade with the EU has been shrinking anyway compared to the rest of the world that is understandable. So do you think PwC are right or do you think that you are right and we face economic disaster? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Forecast by economists? A profession that you shit all over when you don't like what they say, but hail when you do like what they say?
I've never shat on anybody thank you. So you disagree with them now then?
Well from the quoted parts in the telegraph it says that there will be less trade with the EU, but on the other thread you said that wouldn't happen, so who is right? PwC or you?
I actually said we are not moving trade from anywhere, I never mentioned the amount. But considering trade with the EU has been shrinking anyway compared to the rest of the world that is understandable. So do you think PwC are right or do you think that you are right and we face economic disaster?"
Perhaps also worth you mentioning that the trade we do have with the rest of the EU is massively in deficit......in other words it costs us a fortune to deal with them, and they make a huge profit.
In whose best interest is it to keep this trade flowing freely? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Forecast by economists? A profession that you shit all over when you don't like what they say, but hail when you do like what they say?
I've never shat on anybody thank you. So you disagree with them now then?
Well from the quoted parts in the telegraph it says that there will be less trade with the EU, but on the other thread you said that wouldn't happen, so who is right? PwC or you?
I actually said we are not moving trade from anywhere, I never mentioned the amount. But considering trade with the EU has been shrinking anyway compared to the rest of the world that is understandable. So do you think PwC are right or do you think that you are right and we face economic disaster?
Perhaps also worth you mentioning that the trade we do have with the rest of the EU is massively in deficit......in other words it costs us a fortune to deal with them, and they make a huge profit.
In whose best interest is it to keep this trade flowing freely?"
you did it for me  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago
Barbados |
"
Perhaps also worth you mentioning that the trade we do have with the rest of the EU is massively in deficit......in other words it costs us a fortune to deal with them, and they make a huge profit.
In whose best interest is it to keep this trade flowing freely?"
Hahahahahahah! Oh, this forum gets funnier and funnier by the day.
-Matt |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"
I actually said we are not moving trade from anywhere, I never mentioned the amount. But considering trade with the EU has been shrinking anyway compared to the rest of the world that is understandable. So do you think PwC are right or do you think that you are right and we face economic disaster?"
No, EU trade is not shrinking. International trade is growing. There is a bigger cake so EU trade is a smaller proportion. It's still a huge proportion and there is no benefit it making it more difficult. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"
Perhaps also worth you mentioning that the trade we do have with the rest of the EU is massively in deficit......in other words it costs us a fortune to deal with them, and they make a huge profit.
In whose best interest is it to keep this trade flowing freely?"
No, that is not what a trade deficit means. It's a differential.
The existence of a huge amount of trade with the EU means that we sustain a large number of companies and jobs to sell these goods and services to the EU. We purchase more from them because they provide those goods or services more cheaply or at a higher quality or uniquely.
If we did not trade freely with the EU then all that economic activity would not occur so even if we were in surplus we wouldn't have the same number of companies or jobs or we would be paying more for inferior goods and services.
It's in everyone's best interest to trade freely. That is why the EU exists. We have chosen to leave so either we surrender that access or pay for it. It's perfectly logical that this will cost more than membership if we want to pick and choose. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
Perhaps also worth you mentioning that the trade we do have with the rest of the EU is massively in deficit......in other words it costs us a fortune to deal with them, and they make a huge profit.
In whose best interest is it to keep this trade flowing freely?
No, that is not what a trade deficit means. It's a differential.
The existence of a huge amount of trade with the EU means that we sustain a large number of companies and jobs to sell these goods and services to the EU. We purchase more from them because they provide those goods or services more cheaply or at a higher quality or uniquely.
If we did not trade freely with the EU then all that economic activity would not occur so even if we were in surplus we wouldn't have the same number of companies or jobs or we would be paying more for inferior goods and services.
It's in everyone's best interest to trade freely. That is why the EU exists. We have chosen to leave so either we surrender that access or pay for it. It's perfectly logical that this will cost more than membership if we want to pick and choose."
NO Easyuk you have it all wrong...
The main theme of Brexit is to shut the fucking door on every fucker and return ourselves to the fucking stone age that'll teach them fucking forigen twats
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *obka3Couple
over a year ago
bournemouth |
"
If we did not trade freely with the EU then all that economic activity would not occur so even if we were in surplus we wouldn't have the same number of companies or jobs or we would be paying more for inferior goods and services.
It's in everyone's best interest to trade freely. That is why the EU exists. We have chosen to leave so either we surrender that access or pay for it. It's perfectly logical that this will cost more than membership if we want to pick and choose."
You said it. Its in everyones interests to trade freely, so why would the EU want to impose tariffs ? The reason the EU exists today is for political reasons
not trade, they have trade deals with other countries without political tie ups. Tariffs will hurt them more than us, the only reason they will refuse to have a free trade deal is because the european superstate dream will die if other countries want to escape from the political dogma |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"
You said it. Its in everyones interests to trade freely, so why would the EU want to impose tariffs ? The reason the EU exists today is for political reasons
not trade, they have trade deals with other countries without political tie ups. Tariffs will hurt them more than us, the only reason they will refuse to have a free trade deal is because the european superstate dream will die if other countries want to escape from the political dogma "
The EU exists today for both political and trade reasons. There are also economies of scale that flow from centrally generating a single set of regulations and allocating research spending.
There is also a benefit in developing the economies and institutions of poorer states. They create a larger, wealthier market.
There is a cost to all of this. If we do not wish to contribute that's fine, but it's odd to expect to benefit.
Nobody in any thread has told me why they think that the EU should offer us a better deal than they do to themselves. Any thoughts?
I often see the statement that reduced trade will hurt them more than. Full-face.org
The value of trade to the UK and the rest of the EU—we exported about £220 billion worth of goods and services to the rest of the EU in 2015, according to UK data, while the rest of the EU exported somewhere around £290 billion to us. These figures differ if you use EU data. What this means is that the rest of the EU sells more to us than we sell to it.
What those exports are as a proportion of all exports—by this measure about 44% of the UK’s exports go to other EU countries, while somewhere between 8-17% of exports from other EU countries go to the UK (depending on how you measure it).
The value of that trade to the UK and other EU countries’ economies—exports to the rest of the EU are worth about 13% of the UK’s economy, and exports from other EU countries to the UK are worth about 3-4% of the value of those countries’ economies taken as a whole.
This means that if the arrangement ends we will have to refocus our economic activity to compensate for that lost trade by an order of magnitude more than countries within the EU. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I don't see it as getting a better deal with the EU just a different deal that's all.
Business will always find a way it's the nature of trade, the EU will still want to deal with the UK just in a different way.
As for migrant workers that will always happen but in a more controlled way instead of a free for all.
Too many times do we see some companies taking advantage of low paid immigrant workers because they will work for peanuts and make big profits for some of these back street factories as they would have to register the fact they are working for who ever is employing them.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"I don't see it as getting a better deal with the EU just a different deal that's all.
Business will always find a way it's the nature of trade, the EU will still want to deal with the UK just in a different way.
As for migrant workers that will always happen but in a more controlled way instead of a free for all.
Too many times do we see some companies taking advantage of low paid immigrant workers because they will work for peanuts and make big profits for some of these back street factories as they would have to register the fact they are working for who ever is employing them.
"
some people don't seem to mind the modern day slave trade. After all, they have a better life here don't they  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"I don't see it as getting a better deal with the EU just a different deal that's all.
Business will always find a way it's the nature of trade, the EU will still want to deal with the UK just in a different way.
As for migrant workers that will always happen but in a more controlled way instead of a free for all.
Too many times do we see some companies taking advantage of low paid immigrant workers because they will work for peanuts and make big profits for some of these back street factories as they would have to register the fact they are working for who ever is employing them.
"
This situation requires business to find a way rather than getting on with investing and becoming more profitable and efficient.
If migrant workers are only here because their visas are tied to a single job with a single employer to whom their entire life is tied do you think they will feel able to turn down working longer hours or meeting unreasonable targets? It's bad enough if you are free to leave and find another job. Imagine having to leave the country and uproot yourself and perhaps even your family?
The majority of those exploited in sweatshops now are non EU immigrants who aren't even allowed to work due to their visa terms. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Compare this to China, India, Indonesia, Brazil, Nigeria and even a country like Pakistan and you'll begin to realize how g7 economies are beginning to decline. To be honest every European economy seems like they're struggling to rejuvenate themselves nevermind the g7. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Compare this to China, India, Indonesia, Brazil, Nigeria and even a country like Pakistan and you'll begin to realize how g7 economies are beginning to decline. To be honest every European economy seems like they're struggling to rejuvenate themselves nevermind the g7."
True but it seems that people are starting to realise that the UK is now in a better position than the members of the EU |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I don't see it as getting a better deal with the EU just a different deal that's all.
Business will always find a way it's the nature of trade, the EU will still want to deal with the UK just in a different way.
As for migrant workers that will always happen but in a more controlled way instead of a free for all.
Too many times do we see some companies taking advantage of low paid immigrant workers because they will work for peanuts and make big profits for some of these back street factories as they would have to register the fact they are working for who ever is employing them.
some people don't seem to mind the modern day slave trade. After all, they have a better life here don't they "
so if the above is correct and businesses will always find a way around what do you think will happen ? Do you think the businesses will suddenly increase workers wages and cut into their own profits? Or do you think they will move the factories to the cheap labour and continue if not increase profits? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"I don't see it as getting a better deal with the EU just a different deal that's all.
Business will always find a way it's the nature of trade, the EU will still want to deal with the UK just in a different way.
As for migrant workers that will always happen but in a more controlled way instead of a free for all.
Too many times do we see some companies taking advantage of low paid immigrant workers because they will work for peanuts and make big profits for some of these back street factories as they would have to register the fact they are working for who ever is employing them.
some people don't seem to mind the modern day slave trade. After all, they have a better life here don't they so if the above is correct and businesses will always find a way around what do you think will happen ? Do you think the businesses will suddenly increase workers wages and cut into their own profits? Or do you think they will move the factories to the cheap labour and continue if not increase profits?"
why haven't they already moved to the cheap labour? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I don't see it as getting a better deal with the EU just a different deal that's all.
Business will always find a way it's the nature of trade, the EU will still want to deal with the UK just in a different way.
As for migrant workers that will always happen but in a more controlled way instead of a free for all.
Too many times do we see some companies taking advantage of low paid immigrant workers because they will work for peanuts and make big profits for some of these back street factories as they would have to register the fact they are working for who ever is employing them.
some people don't seem to mind the modern day slave trade. After all, they have a better life here don't they so if the above is correct and businesses will always find a way around what do you think will happen ? Do you think the businesses will suddenly increase workers wages and cut into their own profits? Or do you think they will move the factories to the cheap labour and continue if not increase profits?
why haven't they already moved to the cheap labour?"
because of free movement of people there is no need when the people can come freely |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
You said it. Its in everyones interests to trade freely, so why would the EU want to impose tariffs ? The reason the EU exists today is for political reasons
not trade, they have trade deals with other countries without political tie ups. Tariffs will hurt them more than us, the only reason they will refuse to have a free trade deal is because the european superstate dream will die if other countries want to escape from the political dogma
The EU exists today for both political and trade reasons. There are also economies of scale that flow from centrally generating a single set of regulations and allocating research spending.
There is also a benefit in developing the economies and institutions of poorer states. They create a larger, wealthier market.
There is a cost to all of this. If we do not wish to contribute that's fine, but it's odd to expect to benefit.
Nobody in any thread has told me why they think that the EU should offer us a better deal than they do to themselves. Any thoughts?
I often see the statement that reduced trade will hurt them more than. Full-face.org
The value of trade to the UK and the rest of the EU—we exported about £220 billion worth of goods and services to the rest of the EU in 2015, according to UK data, while the rest of the EU exported somewhere around £290 billion to us. These figures differ if you use EU data. What this means is that the rest of the EU sells more to us than we sell to it.
What those exports are as a proportion of all exports—by this measure about 44% of the UK’s exports go to other EU countries, while somewhere between 8-17% of exports from other EU countries go to the UK (depending on how you measure it).
The value of that trade to the UK and other EU countries’ economies—exports to the rest of the EU are worth about 13% of the UK’s economy, and exports from other EU countries to the UK are worth about 3-4% of the value of those countries’ economies taken as a whole.
This means that if the arrangement ends we will have to refocus our economic activity to compensate for that lost trade by an order of magnitude more than countries within the EU."
I take it you missed Newsnight on BBC 2 last night then? They had the prime minister of Finland on the programme, and he was saying it's in the EU's interest as well as Britain's to get a mutually beneficial deal, a deal which could be along the lines of a bilateral free trade deal within the 2 year period after article 50 is triggered. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"I don't see it as getting a better deal with the EU just a different deal that's all.
Business will always find a way it's the nature of trade, the EU will still want to deal with the UK just in a different way.
As for migrant workers that will always happen but in a more controlled way instead of a free for all.
Too many times do we see some companies taking advantage of low paid immigrant workers because they will work for peanuts and make big profits for some of these back street factories as they would have to register the fact they are working for who ever is employing them.
some people don't seem to mind the modern day slave trade. After all, they have a better life here don't they so if the above is correct and businesses will always find a way around what do you think will happen ? Do you think the businesses will suddenly increase workers wages and cut into their own profits? Or do you think they will move the factories to the cheap labour and continue if not increase profits?
why haven't they already moved to the cheap labour? because of free movement of people there is no need when the people can come freely "
exactly. People trafficking is easier with EU free movement. Why do you think the modern day slave trade has grown over recent years? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I don't see it as getting a better deal with the EU just a different deal that's all.
Business will always find a way it's the nature of trade, the EU will still want to deal with the UK just in a different way.
As for migrant workers that will always happen but in a more controlled way instead of a free for all.
Too many times do we see some companies taking advantage of low paid immigrant workers because they will work for peanuts and make big profits for some of these back street factories as they would have to register the fact they are working for who ever is employing them.
some people don't seem to mind the modern day slave trade. After all, they have a better life here don't they so if the above is correct and businesses will always find a way around what do you think will happen ? Do you think the businesses will suddenly increase workers wages and cut into their own profits? Or do you think they will move the factories to the cheap labour and continue if not increase profits?
why haven't they already moved to the cheap labour? because of free movement of people there is no need when the people can come freely
exactly. People trafficking is easier with EU free movement. Why do you think the modern day slave trade has grown over recent years?"
how is it people trafficking if the people come here themselves and applying for jobs? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"I don't see it as getting a better deal with the EU just a different deal that's all.
Business will always find a way it's the nature of trade, the EU will still want to deal with the UK just in a different way.
As for migrant workers that will always happen but in a more controlled way instead of a free for all.
Too many times do we see some companies taking advantage of low paid immigrant workers because they will work for peanuts and make big profits for some of these back street factories as they would have to register the fact they are working for who ever is employing them.
some people don't seem to mind the modern day slave trade. After all, they have a better life here don't they so if the above is correct and businesses will always find a way around what do you think will happen ? Do you think the businesses will suddenly increase workers wages and cut into their own profits? Or do you think they will move the factories to the cheap labour and continue if not increase profits?
why haven't they already moved to the cheap labour? because of free movement of people there is no need when the people can come freely
exactly. People trafficking is easier with EU free movement. Why do you think the modern day slave trade has grown over recent years?how is it people trafficking if the people come here themselves and applying for jobs? "
they're not applying for jobs. They are put to work, in production, housework, agriculture, catering and sex. Maybe read up on it |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Go to any of the car you washes and back street factories and you will find loads of them usually run by a gang master taking a cut of wages because he is the one getting them the job and ensuring they have regular work.
It goes in no matter how much it's denied |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"
I take it you missed Newsnight on BBC 2 last night then? They had the prime minister of Finland on the programme, and he was saying it's in the EU's interest as well as Britain's to get a mutually beneficial deal, a deal which could be along the lines of a bilateral free trade deal within the 2 year period after article 50 is triggered. "
Alexander Stubb the former Finnish Prime Minister?
We watched different interviews then. He did think that there would be a functioning Brexit but I don't recall anything about bilateral free trade deals within 2 years.
I've never said that the EU wouldn't want to do the best possible deal, but that doesn't mean that we get everything that we want. That's what a negotiation is.
“I for one will be trying to make the best out of a very difficult situation.”
“There are people on the Continent who want to punish Britain for this – I don’t want to do that, I actually want to find a good deal for Britain and for Europe as well.
“We have to live with this new reality, but we have to understand that it weakens everyone.”
"you never get everything you want”
“I think usually a list is a starting position of the negotiations,”
“It’s impossible to say at this stage [what Britain will miss out on]. The Brexit negotiations, themselves, are going to take about two years and they, of course, at the end of the day what we decide one of two things: the exit date and the second one is probably linked to money.
“It would be wonderful if she did [get her favoured deal] but I think we need to work in that direction."
“No-one wants to isolate the UK in terms of trade, there is no question about that. In terms of taking control of your own laws, yes that will happen but first, you’ll have to take lock, stock and barrel at 200,000 pages of our key [laws] and start moulding those around.”
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/news/uk/764066/Theresa-May-warned-of-Brexit-bullying-European-Union-Alexander-Stubb/amp |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"
exactly. People trafficking is easier with EU free movement. Why do you think the modern day slave trade has grown over recent years?how is it people trafficking if the people come here themselves and applying for jobs?
they're not applying for jobs. They are put to work, in production, housework, agriculture, catering and sex. Maybe read up on it"
Ah Brexit is to look after EU immigrants rights. I might have been more inclined to vote out had that been given more publicity.
I don't doubt that this happens and it will be great if the exploitation of EU immigrants stops.
Then what? At this point in time we either find another source of cheap labour such that we can be internationally competitive in any low skilled industries and that local workers aren't inclined to.
Will this be better? Chinese and South Asian and African workers are frequently exploited.
What new system goes in it's place. As I said, having your visa tied to your job makes you legally very vulnerable to exploitation except this is "legal". Have a look at what happens in the Middle East or even domestically in China.
You exchange one problem for another.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *omaMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
"The UK is forecast to be the fastest growing economy of the G7 up until 2050. Outstripping Germany, France and Italy for the next 33 years.
All despite Brexit. Who'd a thunk it eh?
well, me for 1 "
We are all told that a Scorching Hot Summer is forecast too!
I rest my case |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Forecast by economists? A profession that you shit all over when you don't like what they say, but hail when you do like what they say? "
Would you consider the fact that we have good growth forecast in the short and medium term to be good news? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Forecast by economists? A profession that you shit all over when you don't like what they say, but hail when you do like what they say?
Would you consider the fact that we have good growth forecast in the short and medium term to be good news?"
5th post on the thread |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Forecast by economists? A profession that you shit all over when you don't like what they say, but hail when you do like what they say?
Would you consider the fact that we have good growth forecast in the short and medium term to be good news?
5th post on the thread "
Great, well done (to you) |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"
exactly. People trafficking is easier with EU free movement. Why do you think the modern day slave trade has grown over recent years?how is it people trafficking if the people come here themselves and applying for jobs?
they're not applying for jobs. They are put to work, in production, housework, agriculture, catering and sex. Maybe read up on it
Ah Brexit is to look after EU immigrants rights. I might have been more inclined to vote out had that been given more publicity.
I don't doubt that this happens and it will be great if the exploitation of EU immigrants stops.
Then what? At this point in time we either find another source of cheap labour such that we can be internationally competitive in any low skilled industries and that local workers aren't inclined to.
Will this be better? Chinese and South Asian and African workers are frequently exploited.
What new system goes in it's place. As I said, having your visa tied to your job makes you legally very vulnerable to exploitation except this is "legal". Have a look at what happens in the Middle East or even domestically in China.
You exchange one problem for another.
"
why would your visa tie you to your job? What would stop you applying for another? What if the company went bust, do you think you would be kicked out of the country after securing residency and paying taxes? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Forecast by economists? A profession that you shit all over when you don't like what they say, but hail when you do like what they say?
Would you consider the fact that we have good growth forecast in the short and medium term to be good news?"
good news for the country, bad news for him |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago
Barbados |
"
exactly. People trafficking is easier with EU free movement. Why do you think the modern day slave trade has grown over recent years?how is it people trafficking if the people come here themselves and applying for jobs?
they're not applying for jobs. They are put to work, in production, housework, agriculture, catering and sex. Maybe read up on it
Ah Brexit is to look after EU immigrants rights. I might have been more inclined to vote out had that been given more publicity.
I don't doubt that this happens and it will be great if the exploitation of EU immigrants stops.
Then what? At this point in time we either find another source of cheap labour such that we can be internationally competitive in any low skilled industries and that local workers aren't inclined to.
Will this be better? Chinese and South Asian and African workers are frequently exploited.
What new system goes in it's place. As I said, having your visa tied to your job makes you legally very vulnerable to exploitation except this is "legal". Have a look at what happens in the Middle East or even domestically in China.
You exchange one problem for another.
why would your visa tie you to your job? What would stop you applying for another? What if the company went bust, do you think you would be kicked out of the country after securing residency and paying taxes?"
Well that is how it works in the US with, e.g. H1B visas. If I was working in the US with one and had to change jobs I'd need to file for a new visa. Although I don't know all the ins and outs of it. I believe that if a company laid me off they are responsible for the costs of repatriating me home out of the US again, so it is in their interest to help me find a new H1B visa sponsor.
But either way, there would be pressure on me to remain in my job even if being exploited in some way as if I were to leave my future in the US would be uncertain.
-Matt |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"
exactly. People trafficking is easier with EU free movement. Why do you think the modern day slave trade has grown over recent years?how is it people trafficking if the people come here themselves and applying for jobs?
they're not applying for jobs. They are put to work, in production, housework, agriculture, catering and sex. Maybe read up on it
Ah Brexit is to look after EU immigrants rights. I might have been more inclined to vote out had that been given more publicity.
I don't doubt that this happens and it will be great if the exploitation of EU immigrants stops.
Then what? At this point in time we either find another source of cheap labour such that we can be internationally competitive in any low skilled industries and that local workers aren't inclined to.
Will this be better? Chinese and South Asian and African workers are frequently exploited.
What new system goes in it's place. As I said, having your visa tied to your job makes you legally very vulnerable to exploitation except this is "legal". Have a look at what happens in the Middle East or even domestically in China.
You exchange one problem for another.
why would your visa tie you to your job? What would stop you applying for another? What if the company went bust, do you think you would be kicked out of the country after securing residency and paying taxes?
Well that is how it works in the US with, e.g. H1B visas. If I was working in the US with one and had to change jobs I'd need to file for a new visa. Although I don't know all the ins and outs of it. I believe that if a company laid me off they are responsible for the costs of repatriating me home out of the US again, so it is in their interest to help me find a new H1B visa sponsor.
But either way, there would be pressure on me to remain in my job even if being exploited in some way as if I were to leave my future in the US would be uncertain.
-Matt"
There is an annual H1b visa limit which is usually used up by April at which point you have no options.
Regardless you have between a week and a month to get a new job and for your new employer to file for a new visa. That period seems to depend on the mood of the immigration officer. Otherwise your last employer just pays for your ticket home.
That's the USA, but we don't know what our system will be. The mood music that the rules should be rough though. That was a big part of the Brexit campaign. That's fair enough but I therefore don't see us being kind  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"
exactly. People trafficking is easier with EU free movement. Why do you think the modern day slave trade has grown over recent years?how is it people trafficking if the people come here themselves and applying for jobs?
they're not applying for jobs. They are put to work, in production, housework, agriculture, catering and sex. Maybe read up on it
Ah Brexit is to look after EU immigrants rights. I might have been more inclined to vote out had that been given more publicity.
I don't doubt that this happens and it will be great if the exploitation of EU immigrants stops.
Then what? At this point in time we either find another source of cheap labour such that we can be internationally competitive in any low skilled industries and that local workers aren't inclined to.
Will this be better? Chinese and South Asian and African workers are frequently exploited.
What new system goes in it's place. As I said, having your visa tied to your job makes you legally very vulnerable to exploitation except this is "legal". Have a look at what happens in the Middle East or even domestically in China.
You exchange one problem for another.
why would your visa tie you to your job? What would stop you applying for another? What if the company went bust, do you think you would be kicked out of the country after securing residency and paying taxes?
Well that is how it works in the US with, e.g. H1B visas. If I was working in the US with one and had to change jobs I'd need to file for a new visa. Although I don't know all the ins and outs of it. I believe that if a company laid me off they are responsible for the costs of repatriating me home out of the US again, so it is in their interest to help me find a new H1B visa sponsor.
But either way, there would be pressure on me to remain in my job even if being exploited in some way as if I were to leave my future in the US would be uncertain.
-Matt
There is an annual H1b visa limit which is usually used up by April at which point you have no options.
Regardless you have between a week and a month to get a new job and for your new employer to file for a new visa. That period seems to depend on the mood of the immigration officer. Otherwise your last employer just pays for your ticket home.
That's the USA, but we don't know what our system will be. The mood music that the rules should be rough though. That was a big part of the Brexit campaign. That's fair enough but I therefore don't see us being kind "
What's the deal with non-EU workers now? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"
exactly. People trafficking is easier with EU free movement. Why do you think the modern day slave trade has grown over recent years?how is it people trafficking if the people come here themselves and applying for jobs?
they're not applying for jobs. They are put to work, in production, housework, agriculture, catering and sex. Maybe read up on it
What's the deal with non-EU workers now?"
Because you were deeply concerned about the plight of EU immigrants being brought here and exploited. I thought you'd be equally concerned about how Non-EU immigrants after we close the borders but still want cheap labour to ship in from somewhere.
My mistake. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"
exactly. People trafficking is easier with EU free movement. Why do you think the modern day slave trade has grown over recent years?how is it people trafficking if the people come here themselves and applying for jobs?
they're not applying for jobs. They are put to work, in production, housework, agriculture, catering and sex. Maybe read up on it
What's the deal with non-EU workers now?
Because you were deeply concerned about the plight of EU immigrants being brought here and exploited. I thought you'd be equally concerned about how Non-EU immigrants after we close the borders but still want cheap labour to ship in from somewhere.
My mistake."
what do you mean, close the borders, stop being dramatic. All I asked was what is the sitution now for non EU workers? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I dont understand the problem people who voted remai have with immigration.
I am all for immigration and totally understand the benefits.
However do we really need to have open borders to all, with no checks as to whether they have a criminal history or no checks on their mental well being.
Free trade goes hand in hand with free movement of labour, so why cant that labour only come to a new country when they have an actual job to go to.
I see immigrants on our streets living rough, selling the big issue, begging. Is this what free movement is all about !!!
Is this what not just this government but subsequent ones wanteIf people want to come to this country and work then thats great, but have money to live on, have a job to come to, have medical insurance, this goes both ways so anyone wanting to move to another country from here then same rules apply. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *osieWoman
over a year ago
Wembley |
"The UK is forecast to be the fastest growing economy of the G7 up until 2050. Outstripping Germany, France and Italy for the next 33 years.
All despite Brexit. Who'd a thunk it eh?
well, me for 1 "
A fastest growing economy based on what, exactly?
High-tech?
Auto manufacturing?
Power generation?
Financial services?
Or
Flower arranging and a_omatherapy? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"
what do you mean, close the borders, stop being dramatic. All I asked was what is the sitution now for non EU workers?"
I'm tempted to say "Maybe educate yourself and you wouldn't have to keep asking people here". Remember that phrase?
However I'll answer you instead. I really don't know as the the rules are spectacularly complicated. I've only had a look at H1b visa to work in the USA and I didn't need anything to live and work in Italy for three years.
I will also apologise for misunderstanding the tone of your question. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"
A fastest growing economy based on what, exactly?
High-tech?
Auto manufacturing?
Power generation?
Financial services?
Or
Flower arranging and a_omatherapy?"
Services. These is by far the hardest to negotiate trade deals on as it's regulations that balance these not tariffs. Once. You have one negotiation in place then you have less flexibility for the next one because different regulatory rules for every country would be a nightmare... |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"I dont understand the problem people who voted remai have with immigration.
I am all for immigration and totally understand the benefits.
However do we really need to have open borders to all, with no checks as to whether they have a criminal history or no checks on their mental well being.
Free trade goes hand in hand with free movement of labour, so why cant that labour only come to a new country when they have an actual job to go to.
I see immigrants on our streets living rough, selling the big issue, begging. Is this what free movement is all about !!!
Is this what not just this government but subsequent ones wanteIf people want to come to this country and work then thats great, but have money to live on, have a job to come to, have medical insurance, this goes both ways so anyone wanting to move to another country from here then same rules apply."
I've never had a problem with controlled immigration. However, those aren't the rules of the club which treats labour as a commodity just like any other. This is what prevents capital and jobs moving to,areas of cheap labour within the EU. The labour moves instead.
However, in wanting to control immigration we are forced to give up the other benefits of EU membership. I don't think the gain in controlling immigration will make up for the loss by quite some margin. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *osieWoman
over a year ago
Wembley |
"
A fastest growing economy based on what, exactly?
High-tech?
Auto manufacturing?
Power generation?
Financial services?
Or
Flower arranging and a_omatherapy?
Services. These is by far the hardest to negotiate trade deals on as it's regulations that balance these not tariffs. Once. You have one negotiation in place then you have less flexibility for the next one because different regulatory rules for every country would be a nightmare..."
What kind of services? Tourism? That alone could not propel the UK economy ahead of all the Industrialised nations in Europe. And it is not as if others in Europe don't have tourism as a service
The banks are threathing to move out of the UK; some have already started the process
I am afraid that the 'forecast' is probably grossly over-inflated |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"The UK is forecast to be the fastest growing economy of the G7 up until 2050. Outstripping Germany, France and Italy for the next 33 years.
All despite Brexit. Who'd a thunk it eh?
well, me for 1 "
I was quite astonished at this report. I thought it might be by a completely disreputable source, so I was surprised it is from Price Waterhouse Coopers.
One of the positive things about Brexit (and one of the disadvantages of being part of the EU) is that we will have flexibility to respond quicker to circumstances and we can tailor things much better to our own particular circumstances. I'm happy to acknowledge that without pointing out the double edged sword or the many other aspects that far outweigh this (in my opinion).
It's a positive outlook and report, on the face of it. I'm happy to ignore that long term forecasting has almost as much credibility as mystic meg and concede that it could be an outcome, depending on the assumptions and variables included along the way.
So, then I looked at what they might be.
It says
'developing successful trade and investment links with faster-growing emerging economies will be CRITICAL to achieving this, offsetting probable weaker trade links with the EU after Brexit.'
This major assumption/factor practically destroys the forecast on it's own.
It goes on to say
'the UK economy will not escape entirely unscathed from the decision to leave the bloc and that it will dampen growth prospects in the short term. But the brunt of the impact would be felt by 2020 and in the years that follow the UK would outperform its peers thanks to its relatively large working age population and its flexible economy.'
It is quite something to suggest that, considering there is virtually no-one with any credibility that thinks by April 2019, two years after Article 50 is triggered, there will be anything approaching a deal with the EU, let alone with any other countries or trading blocs.
Even then, has anyone in this government shown any competence at all that suggests they can get a 'good deal'?
It also says that
'growth depended on the country “remaining open to talented people from around the world after Brexit”.
At the moment, it doesn't seem like this is likely to even remain at current levels and the pressure, unless the brexiteers roll back on even the anti-immigration agenda.
A big factor in the forecast relies on population demographics. We are supposed to be shutting down immigration. That fucks that assumption up.
I'm afraid the forecast is almost worthless. I mean, how did it decide the degree our trade links with europe will probably be weaker?
PWC are a serious firm. I smell a rat somewhere. What was the brief? Is it being reported accurately? Is there an agenda? Are there other forecasts based on shit deals taking many more years than predicted in this forecast?
Every other forecast suggests our problems only properly beginning in 2020, not nearly over!
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I dont understand the problem people who voted remai have with immigration.
I am all for immigration and totally understand the benefits.
However do we really need to have open borders to all, with no checks as to whether they have a criminal history or no checks on their mental well being.
Free trade goes hand in hand with free movement of labour, so why cant that labour only come to a new country when they have an actual job to go to.
I see immigrants on our streets living rough, selling the big issue, begging. Is this what free movement is all about !!!
Is this what not just this government but subsequent ones wanteIf people want to come to this country and work then thats great, but have money to live on, have a job to come to, have medical insurance, this goes both ways so anyone wanting to move to another country from here then same rules apply.
I've never had a problem with controlled immigration. However, those aren't the rules of the club which treats labour as a commodity just like any other. This is what prevents capital and jobs moving to,areas of cheap labour within the EU. The labour moves instead.
However, in wanting to control immigration we are forced to give up the other benefits of EU membership. I don't think the gain in controlling immigration will make up for the loss by quite some margin."
So it's open borders then and anyone can come as and when they want !!!!
would you not say the system is open to abuse
Isn't movement of labour with the surety of a job the way forward, and why would that then stop free movement on trade, surely there must be restrictions of some kind on what can come into and out of the country trade wise, and if so why not the same for labour. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"
So it's open borders then and anyone can come as and when they want !!!!
would you not say the system is open to abuse
Isn't movement of labour with the surety of a job the way forward, and why would that then stop free movement on trade, surely there must be restrictions of some kind on what can come into and out of the country trade wise, and if so why not the same for labour."
Well yes. That's what it's been for the last 40 years. The major problems were created by the UK choosing as a sovereign state not to restrict immigration from the New eastern European states as they were entitled to do. Due to the big economic differential this led to a flood of immigration which was dealt with terribly.
The purpose of a common market is that you create what is essentially one, big domestic market without restriction.
As far as I'm aware, EU immigrants are no more likely to be claiming benefits or be out of work than UK ones.
As I said before, if labour can't move then capital will to set up factories in low cost areas of the trading area. If you then restrict capital movement as well you defeat the object of the exercise.
There are probably constructive ways around it but I don't think we've been very creative. Perhaps a job offer would be a good way to work, but then you have to register Pete and track their movement which adds cost and slows the process. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago
Barbados |
"I dont understand the problem people who voted remai have with immigration.
I am all for immigration and totally understand the benefits.
However do we really need to have open borders to all, with no checks as to whether they have a criminal history or no checks on their mental well being.
"
But that is a bit of a straw man argument, is it not? We already have checks for criminal history, that is one of the things that we have being a part of the EU, access to a shared database of criminal history. I'm not sure about mental well being though, or how you'd even go about assessing that with a view to immigration. I mean, where would you draw the line?
-Matt |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"
What kind of services? Tourism? That alone could not propel the UK economy ahead of all the Industrialised nations in Europe. And it is not as if others in Europe don't have tourism as a service
The banks are threathing to move out of the UK; some have already started the process
I am afraid that the 'forecast' is probably grossly over-inflated"
Everything from finance to insurance to advertising to restaurants.
The forecast that far out is a guesstimate at best as it certainly can't account for anything beyond an assumption that things continue more or less the same. That's the one thing we no isn't going to be the case. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I dont understand the problem people who voted remai have with immigration.
I am all for immigration and totally understand the benefits.
However do we really need to have open borders to all, with no checks as to whether they have a criminal history or no checks on their mental well being.
But that is a bit of a straw man argument, is it not? We already have checks for criminal history, that is one of the things that we have being a part of the EU, access to a shared database of criminal history. I'm not sure about mental well being though, or how you'd even go about assessing that with a view to immigration. I mean, where would you draw the line?
-Matt"
Considering that the UK is unable to do anything about the mental health of the population, its a bit optimistic talking about checking people coming in.... |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I dont understand the problem people who voted remai have with immigration.
I am all for immigration and totally understand the benefits.
However do we really need to have open borders to all, with no checks as to whether they have a criminal history or no checks on their mental well being.
But that is a bit of a straw man argument, is it not? We already have checks for criminal history, that is one of the things that we have being a part of the EU, access to a shared database of criminal history. I'm not sure about mental well being though, or how you'd even go about assessing that with a view to immigration. I mean, where would you draw the line?
-Matt
Considering that the UK is unable to do anything about the mental health of the population, its a bit optimistic talking about checking people coming in...."
Yes indeed. Let's not forget Do Nothing May's speech about how important mental health is, complete with £0 additional funding. But she said some words, so that's all good. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"Forecast by economists? A profession that you shit all over when you don't like what they say, but hail when you do like what they say? "
But you allway believe them.
Anyway it is impossible to forcast that far ahead,most of us will be dead,well I will be anyway lol.
I do think by 2050 we will be halfway through the century |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"
A fastest growing economy based on what, exactly?
High-tech?
Auto manufacturing?
Power generation?
Financial services?
Or
Flower arranging and a_omatherapy?
Services. These is by far the hardest to negotiate trade deals on as it's regulations that balance these not tariffs. Once. You have one negotiation in place then you have less flexibility for the next one because different regulatory rules for every country would be a nightmare...
What kind of services? Tourism? That alone could not propel the UK economy ahead of all the Industrialised nations in Europe. And it is not as if others in Europe don't have tourism as a service
The banks are threathing to move out of the UK; some have already started the process
I am afraid that the 'forecast' is probably grossly over-inflated"
Your very polite it is a silly forcast totally stupid |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
The other thing about it is that it kind of suggests that Britain leading the G7 in growth is because we will leave the EU.
In fact, prior to joining the EU the U.K. had the slowest growth of the G7. Since joining we have had the highest average annual growth of the G7.
That does two things. Firstly it suggests that the EU did not stifle us. Secondly, It calls into question the forecast that we would grow when outside the EU. We didn't before. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
» Add a new message to this topic
