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Libelous Slanderous UKIP
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By *LCC OP Couple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
Another UKIP MEP has been found guilty of libel, slander and deformation relating to accusing 3 MPs of knowing about child abuse in Rotherham and not doing anything. Jane Collins is now having to pay £150,000 in compensation and £196,000 in costs.
This is yet another UKIP politician being caught doing this. Caven Vines, a UKIP councillor in Rotherham had to pay £80,000 in damages to two MPs for saying similar things. Vines was convicted in June last year. |
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It doesn't mean that the MPs were ignorant of what was going on, just that she was unable to prove that they knew.
There are so many public representatives in the area who did know about the widespread abuse which was happening, yet chose to ignore it, so would one be surprised if the national representatives were not privy to the same information as the local representatives?
Not so much not guilty as not proven, I'd venture, on the balance of probabilities. |
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"Another UKIP MEP has been found guilty of libel, slander and deformation relating to accusing 3 MPs of knowing about child abuse in Rotherham and not doing anything. Jane Collins is now having to pay £150,000 in compensation and £196,000 in costs.
This is yet another UKIP politician being caught doing this. Caven Vines, a UKIP councillor in Rotherham had to pay £80,000 in damages to two MPs for saying similar things. Vines was convicted in June last year."
I wonder if you would have posted that if it was the other way around.  |
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"It doesn't mean that the MPs were ignorant of what was going on, just that she was unable to prove that they knew.
There are so many public representatives in the area who did know about the widespread abuse which was happening, yet chose to ignore it, so would one be surprised if the national representatives were not privy to the same information as the local representatives?
Not so much not guilty as not proven, I'd venture, on the balance of probabilities."
Now say that on youtube facebook or some other non anonymous place and see how long it takes for you to be made prove the voracity of your statement...
Of course you wont be doing that will you because you know it will cost you everything you own or ever will own. |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"Another UKIP MEP has been found guilty of libel, slander and deformation relating to accusing 3 MPs of knowing about child abuse in Rotherham and not doing anything. Jane Collins is now having to pay £150,000 in compensation and £196,000 in costs.
This is yet another UKIP politician being caught doing this. Caven Vines, a UKIP councillor in Rotherham had to pay £80,000 in damages to two MPs for saying similar things. Vines was convicted in June last year.
I wonder if you would have posted that if it was the other way around. "
a) does it matter
b) why are people trying to defend this...
c) all of the money that has been awarded is actually going to child charities....
d) they shouldn't have said it... and if you are going to try and defend any of the allegation, you put the site at risk... and your own pocket! |
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By *LCC OP Couple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"It doesn't mean that the MPs were ignorant of what was going on, just that she was unable to prove that they knew.
There are so many public representatives in the area who did know about the widespread abuse which was happening, yet chose to ignore it, so would one be surprised if the national representatives were not privy to the same information as the local representatives?
Not so much not guilty as not proven, I'd venture, on the balance of probabilities."
It's not that either of the UKIP politicians couldn't prove it, it's that no one has proven it, not the police, not the independent enquiry into it, no council emails to the MPs proving they were aware, nothing. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Another UKIP MEP has been found guilty of libel, slander and deformation relating to accusing 3 MPs of knowing about child abuse in Rotherham and not doing anything. Jane Collins is now having to pay £150,000 in compensation and £196,000 in costs.
This is yet another UKIP politician being caught doing this. Caven Vines, a UKIP councillor in Rotherham had to pay £80,000 in damages to two MPs for saying similar things. Vines was convicted in June last year.
I wonder if you would have posted that if it was the other way around. "
That's the Priblem with the Left ! They wouldn't have !!! |
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Obviously a big mistake saying those things and paying a hefty price for it now. Also a pity for all sides to tie up valuable time and resources on something like this. Glad to hear the money is being handed to childrens charities.
OP , careful the thread title could be construed as meaning the whole of ukip, only these people have been convicted not the whole party.
Hopefully focus can resume on helping the real victims of what happened in the town, convicting the perpetrators and ensuring nothing like it can ever happen again. |
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By *LCC OP Couple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"
I wonder if you would have posted that if it was the other way around.
That's the Priblem with the Left ! They wouldn't have !!!"
It's a problem with the left? So you wouldn't say its a problem with the right? Ok, so show me someone from the right who has started a thread about this topic then. |
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"Another UKIP MEP has been found guilty of libel, slander and deformation relating to accusing 3 MPs of knowing about child abuse in Rotherham and not doing anything. Jane Collins is now having to pay £150,000 in compensation and £196,000 in costs.
This is yet another UKIP politician being caught doing this. Caven Vines, a UKIP councillor in Rotherham had to pay £80,000 in damages to two MPs for saying similar things. Vines was convicted in June last year.
I wonder if you would have posted that if it was the other way around. "
I'm not sure what you mean by 'if it was the other way round' but if you mean if some other person had been proven in a court of law to havre made unsubstantiated or false statements against a UKIP MP would I have posted it? I don't know for sure but then I didn't post this one either. One think I do know is is that I definitely wouldn't be making posts either defending or condoning in anyway the persons making such unsubstantiated and false statements. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Some say; a good MP; is an MP that does not get caught, for all the corruption that they are involved in behind the scenes
?
I wonder how many of these MP's are sitting in Westminster
just a thought. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"That's a huge sum... I doubt those poor young girls that were abused by those evil scum will get no where near that amount. "
Vines was right to take action.
Convicted fraudster and New Labour MP Dennis Macshane for Rotherham for 18 years admitted to turning a blind eye in a BBC interview in 2014:
"..Mr MacShane, who resigned in 2012 over an expenses fraud for which he was later jailed, insisted no-one came to him with child abuse allegations during his 18 years in Parliament, but admitted he should have “burrowed into” the issue.
Admitting he had been guilty of doing too little, he said he had been aware of the problem of cousin marriage and “the oppression of women within bits of the Muslim community in Britain” but: “Perhaps yes, as a true Guardian reader, and liberal leftie, I suppose I didn’t want to raise that too hard.”
He recalled having a “huge row” with another local MP and council grandees because they were complaining about a newspaper investigation into child sexual exploitation in Rotherham, which unearthed uncomfortable truths they did not want to hear."
And Rotherham goes on but thankfully justice delayed isn't always denied. Last week six paedophile, gang rapist, child traffickers were sent to prison for offences committed between 1999-2001 with two of the vile racist paedophiles reportedly shouting "Allah Akbar" as they were sent down to the cells.
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"That's a huge sum... I doubt those poor young girls that were abused by those evil scum will get no where near that amount.
Vines was right to take action.
"
Local Councillor Caven Vines said in a TV interview in 2015 that local MPs John Healey and Sir Kevin Barron 'knew what was going on' , since the reports in The Times newspaper in 2012, but failed to act.
They successfully sued him for damages, since his allegations could not be proven, for around £50k each for damage to their reputation.
The two MPs have retained their MP position throughout, Healey also being Shadow state secretary for housing, and Sir Kevin Barron also Chairman of the Standards and privileges committee. They have not mentioned giving their damages to charity.
Caven Vines has been declared bankrupt.
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"Typical UKIP. Sadly the damage to Labour has already been done"
The labour MPs who were MPs for the area during the years of horrendous abuse and rape of 1,400 children, continue to be MPs now in the same constituencies, as well as holding nice shadow minister positions.
Hopefully these MPs will use the same vigour that they used in the slander case, in fixing the problems that allowed evil people to commit these acts while people in authority stood by and did nothing. |
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I thought an enquiry had found the council were "knowledgable" of the offences committed and had taken no action. The labour councilors gripe was the hate mail they received during elections, no council member should have to know what a community thinks about them or their actions....poor chaps. |
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"Another UKIP MEP has been found guilty of libel, slander and deformation relating to accusing 3 MPs of knowing about child abuse in Rotherham and not doing anything. Jane Collins is now having to pay £150,000 in compensation and £196,000 in costs.
This is yet another UKIP politician being caught doing this. Caven Vines, a UKIP councillor in Rotherham had to pay £80,000 in damages to two MPs for saying similar things. Vines was convicted in June last year.
I wonder if you would have posted that if it was the other way around.
a) does it matter
b) why are people trying to defend this...
c) all of the money that has been awarded is actually going to child charities....
d) they shouldn't have said it... and if you are going to try and defend any of the allegation, you put the site at risk... and your own pocket!"
A. Not really. it's just that the snowflake left are very selective in the stories like like to highlight.
B. I'm not.
C. Alleged but not proven.
D. Probably not but (as in B) I'm not defending anything. However even if I was (which I'm not) I'd like to see anyone chase me through a German court.  |
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By *LCC OP Couple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
For all those above claiming that the left are selective about which stories they post threads about, please give us a link to a story that you have highlighted that was critical of the last politcal party that you voted for. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"For all those above claiming that the left are selective about which stories they post threads about, please give us a link to a story that you have highlighted that was critical of the last politcal party that you voted for. "
I'm not happy that Farage voted against the Ivory Ban ! |
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By *LCC OP Couple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"For all those above claiming that the left are selective about which stories they post threads about, please give us a link to a story that you have highlighted that was critical of the last politcal party that you voted for.
I'm not happy that Farage voted against the Ivory Ban ! "
But did you start a thread about it? From that I take it you voted for UKIP, so did you start any thread attacking UKIP? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Typical UKIP. Sadly the damage to Labour has already been done"
Typical Labour. Happy to wilfully ignore crimes against children for votes, causing them (the children) incalculable physical and emotional damage in their future lives. Labour: rotten to the core. |
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By *LCC OP Couple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"Typical UKIP. Sadly the damage to Labour has already been done
Typical Labour. Happy to wilfully ignore crimes against children for votes, causing them (the children) incalculable physical and emotional damage in their future lives. Labour: rotten to the core."
I like the way that this is a thread about two people having been found guilty of libel and slander for saying exactly what you are saying. I guess some people never learn.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"And your evidence of this is????
There is no proof, thats what it has cost these two UKIP politicians hundreds of thousands of pounds for their lies."
seriously, who do you believe though? |
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By *LCC OP Couple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"And your evidence of this is????
There is no proof, thats what it has cost these two UKIP politicians hundreds of thousands of pounds for their lies.
seriously, who do you believe though?"
The courts |
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Political dogma allowed those 1,400 girls to be abused and raped. They had no-where to turn because they were completely and utterly failed by people who were supposed to protect them.
Now, the justice being sought is by MPs who have have been able to show they were ignorant of the problem.
Lots of people will wish they showed the same determination to seek justice and protection for the poor girls who were the real victims in that town. |
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By *LCC OP Couple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"Political dogma allowed those 1,400 girls abused and raped. They had no-where to turn because they completely and utterly failed by people who were supposed to protect them.
Now, the justice being sought is by MPs who have have been able to show they were ignorant of the problem.
Lots of people will wish they showed the same determination to seek justice and protection for the poor girls who were the real victims in that town."
I blame the perpetrators of the abuse, but you blame the politicians |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"And your evidence of this is????
There is no proof, thats what it has cost these two UKIP politicians hundreds of thousands of pounds for their lies.
seriously, who do you believe though?
The courts"
an opinion? Having no proof of something doesn't make it a lie does it? |
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"And your evidence of this is????
There is no proof, thats what it has cost these two UKIP politicians hundreds of thousands of pounds for their lies.
seriously, who do you believe though?
The courts
an opinion? Having no proof of something doesn't make it a lie does it?"
No, I don't. I blame the perpetrators for their actions. I blame the local politicians, police and social services for failing to act, and therefore allowing it to continue. |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"And your evidence of this is????
There is no proof, thats what it has cost these two UKIP politicians hundreds of thousands of pounds for their lies.
seriously, who do you believe though?"
CandM
I know you normally try to defend thru very rosy glasses... but before you go down this particular avenue on this subject, I would strongly, STRONGLY advised that you actually read the judges notes on the case.....
it is really damning on the UKIP MEP and the attempts that she went to both avoid and slow down the case |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"And your evidence of this is????
There is no proof, thats what it has cost these two UKIP politicians hundreds of thousands of pounds for their lies.
seriously, who do you believe though?
CandM
I know you normally try to defend thru very rosy glasses... but before you go down this particular avenue on this subject, I would strongly, STRONGLY advised that you actually read the judges notes on the case.....
it is really damning on the UKIP MEP and the attempts that she went to both avoid and slow down the case"
I'm not trying to defend anybody |
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"And your evidence of this is????
There is no proof, thats what it has cost these two UKIP politicians hundreds of thousands of pounds for their lies.
seriously, who do you believe though?
The courts
an opinion? Having no proof of something doesn't make it a lie does it?"
Caven Vines made statements that he 'thought' were correct and many other people might 'think' were correct. He believed it, because the things were so well known within the council. However he has no proof that the MPs in question knew. Therefore the slander case against him was accepted by the judge.
CLCC, in terms of libel, he hasn't been 'convicted' , as he hasn't been found guilty of a criminal act. This was a civil case. |
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By *LCC OP Couple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"And your evidence of this is????
There is no proof, thats what it has cost these two UKIP politicians hundreds of thousands of pounds for their lies.
seriously, who do you believe though?
The courts
an opinion? Having no proof of something doesn't make it a lie does it?
Caven Vines made statements that he 'thought' were correct and many other people might 'think' were correct. He believed it, because the things were so well known within the council. However he has no proof that the MPs in question knew. Therefore the slander case against him was accepted by the judge.
CLCC, in terms of libel, he hasn't been 'convicted' , as he hasn't been found guilty of a criminal act. This was a civil case."
God, you are tedious.
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CLCC, in terms of libel, he hasn't been 'convicted' , as he hasn't been found guilty of a criminal act. This was a civil case.
God, you are tedious.
"
You are normally a stickler for terminology, I didn't want anyone to think your were accusing the man of being a criminal. |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"And your evidence of this is????
There is no proof, thats what it has cost these two UKIP politicians hundreds of thousands of pounds for their lies.
seriously, who do you believe though?
The courts
an opinion? Having no proof of something doesn't make it a lie does it?
Caven Vines made statements that he 'thought' were correct and many other people might 'think' were correct. He believed it, because the things were so well known within the council. However he has no proof that the MPs in question knew. Therefore the slander case against him was accepted by the judge.
CLCC, in terms of libel, he hasn't been 'convicted' , as he hasn't been found guilty of a criminal act. This was a civil case."
Slander and libel are always civil cases as individuals always have to prove damage has been done to them....
The other thing you have left out is that on several occasions they were asked to retract the statement and allegations.. of which they refused... and that is why it ended up in court |
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By *LCC OP Couple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"
CLCC, in terms of libel, he hasn't been 'convicted' , as he hasn't been found guilty of a criminal act. This was a civil case.
God, you are tedious.
You are normally a stickler for terminology, I didn't want anyone to think your were accusing the man of being a criminal."
Just guilty and bankrupt, I don’t know either way if he is also a criminal or not. |
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"
CLCC, in terms of libel, he hasn't been 'convicted' , as he hasn't been found guilty of a criminal act. This was a civil case.
Slander and libel are always civil cases as individuals always have to prove damage has been done to them....
The other thing you have left out is that on several occasions they were asked to retract the statement and allegations.. of which they refused... and that is why it ended up in court "
Yes, I know, I can imagine the situation between them all. It will be an escalated mirror of what happens in this forum.
The man is a fool for saying it and not retracting it either.
The sad part for me is these political egoists spend their time doing these things when there are much more important issues to solve, especially in that town. |
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By *LCC OP Couple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"
CLCC, in terms of libel, he hasn't been 'convicted' , as he hasn't been found guilty of a criminal act. This was a civil case.
Slander and libel are always civil cases as individuals always have to prove damage has been done to them....
The other thing you have left out is that on several occasions they were asked to retract the statement and allegations.. of which they refused... and that is why it ended up in court
Yes, I know, I can imagine the situation between them all. It will be an escalated mirror of what happens in this forum.
The man is a fool for saying it and not retracting it either.
The sad part for me is these political egoists spend their time doing these things when there are much more important issues to solve, especially in that town."
MPs have no responsibility for, or authority to act, in policing or social services. |
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"
The sad part for me is these political egoists spend their time doing these things when there are much more important issues to solve, especially in that town.
MPs have no responsibility for, or authority to act, in policing or social services."
No, but MPs have the ability to see problems within their communities. They have the ability to take up issues between agencies and government bodies, if they see the need.
The problems in that town were perpetuated by political dogma. Political leaders have a responsibility to ensure that does not happen. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
CLCC, in terms of libel, he hasn't been 'convicted' , as he hasn't been found guilty of a criminal act. This was a civil case.
Slander and libel are always civil cases as individuals always have to prove damage has been done to them....
The other thing you have left out is that on several occasions they were asked to retract the statement and allegations.. of which they refused... and that is why it ended up in court
Yes, I know, I can imagine the situation between them all. It will be an escalated mirror of what happens in this forum.
The man is a fool for saying it and not retracting it either.
The sad part for me is these political egoists spend their time doing these things when there are much more important issues to solve, especially in that town.
MPs have no responsibility for, or authority to act, in policing or social services."
so they have no influence? And what exactly do they have responsibility for? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
MPs have no responsibility for, or authority to act, in policing or social services.
...so they have no influence? And what exactly do they have responsibility for?"
Convicted fraudster and former New Labour MP Denis MacShane admitted that he didn't want to know anything about grooming and child abuse which would have suited the relevant authorities and 'child protection conferences' perfectly. I would like to see the minutes of those meetings...if of course they were actually taken!? |
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