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US House of Representatives votes to allow the mentally ill to buy guns
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By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago
West London |
House vote to end rule that prevents people with mental illness from buying guns.
You couldn't make this up!
The Independent
http://newscdn.newsrep.net/h5/nrshare.html?r=3&lan=en_GB&pid=14&id=1J844de4f52_uk&app_lan=&mcc=234&declared_lan=en_GB&pubaccount=ocms_0&referrer=200620&showall=1&mcc=234 |
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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
Not all mental illness makes you likely to kill people and it's more likely that those who do want to kill people are not diagnosed as mentally ill. As I don't support America's stance on gun ownership anyway, I hope this is fake news.
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By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago
West London |
"Not all mental illness makes you likely to kill people and it's more likely that those who do want to kill people are not diagnosed as mentally ill. As I don't support America's stance on gun ownership anyway, I hope this is fake news.
"
I agree, but depression and schizophrenia aren't good to mix with weapons. Self-harm more of a concern I think.
Not fake news. Actual news. |
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"Not all mental illness makes you likely to kill people and it's more likely that those who do want to kill people are not diagnosed as mentally ill. As I don't support America's stance on gun ownership anyway, I hope this is fake news.
I agree, but depression and schizophrenia aren't good to mix with weapons. Self-harm more of a concern I think.
Not fake news. Actual news."
It is real news;
but the precise fact is that they law that has been overturned was that the Social Security Agency was required to release information on mental health to the National background check agency .
That did not, in itself, mean that there was a blanket ban on people with mental illnesses from owning guns; merely gave additional information to those considering the background checks.
That has been over turned by the House .
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By *ammskiMan
over a year ago
lytham st.annes |
"Not all mental illness makes you likely to kill people and it's more likely that those who do want to kill people are not diagnosed as mentally ill. As I don't support America's stance on gun ownership anyway, I hope this is fake news.
I agree, but depression and schizophrenia aren't good to mix with weapons. Self-harm more of a concern I think.
Not fake news. Actual news.
It is real news;
but the precise fact is that they law that has been overturned was that the Social Security Agency was required to release information on mental health to the National background check agency .
That did not, in itself, mean that there was a blanket ban on people with mental illnesses from owning guns; merely gave additional information to those considering the background checks.
That has been over turned by the House .
"
who,s house,Hector,s lol |
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"Not all mental illness makes you likely to kill people and it's more likely that those who do want to kill people are not diagnosed as mentally ill. As I don't support America's stance on gun ownership anyway, I hope this is fake news.
I agree, but depression and schizophrenia aren't good to mix with weapons. Self-harm more of a concern I think.
Not fake news. Actual news.
It is real news;
but the precise fact is that they law that has been overturned was that the Social Security Agency was required to release information on mental health to the National background check agency .
That did not, in itself, mean that there was a blanket ban on people with mental illnesses from owning guns; merely gave additional information to those considering the background checks.
That has been over turned by the House .
who,s house,Hector,s lol "
No , Trumps..... |
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By *ammskiMan
over a year ago
lytham st.annes |
"Not all mental illness makes you likely to kill people and it's more likely that those who do want to kill people are not diagnosed as mentally ill. As I don't support America's stance on gun ownership anyway, I hope this is fake news.
I agree, but depression and schizophrenia aren't good to mix with weapons. Self-harm more of a concern I think.
Not fake news. Actual news.
It is real news;
but the precise fact is that they law that has been overturned was that the Social Security Agency was required to release information on mental health to the National background check agency .
That did not, in itself, mean that there was a blanket ban on people with mental illnesses from owning guns; merely gave additional information to those considering the background checks.
That has been over turned by the House .
who,s house,Hector,s lol
No , Trumps....."
Bollocks,and you know it is |
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"Not all mental illness makes you likely to kill people and it's more likely that those who do want to kill people are not diagnosed as mentally ill. As I don't support America's stance on gun ownership anyway, I hope this is fake news.
I agree, but depression and schizophrenia aren't good to mix with weapons. Self-harm more of a concern I think.
Not fake news. Actual news.
It is real news;
but the precise fact is that they law that has been overturned was that the Social Security Agency was required to release information on mental health to the National background check agency .
That did not, in itself, mean that there was a blanket ban on people with mental illnesses from owning guns; merely gave additional information to those considering the background checks.
That has been over turned by the House .
who,s house,Hector,s lol
No , Trumps..... Bollocks,and you know it is "
Do try to keep up;
It's the House of Representatives; controlled by Republicans, ( as is the Senate) so supports Trump.
The republicans have fought against any gun control ; they have sought to overturn or prevent any gun control laws;
The NRA funds the Republicans, and has been vociferously supporting Trump.
In this case, actually, Trump didn't actually start this one; it was going to happen the moment that the new house sessions started; but they knew Trump (Bannon) would wave it through.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The US stance on their gun laws is ludicrous, I remember reading about this sometime last year so can't blame Trump for this one. Given the levels of gun crime and shootings they've had I'd love to see their government stand up to the NRA and push for their constitution to be amended to try and protect their citizens more. Unfortunately I can't see this happening any time soon. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The US stance on their gun laws is ludicrous, I remember reading about this sometime last year so can't blame Trump for this one. Given the levels of gun crime and shootings they've had I'd love to see their government stand up to the NRA and push for their constitution to be amended to try and protect their citizens more. Unfortunately I can't see this happening any time soon."
Simple solution !
No Guns , No Shootings ! |
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By *asyuk OP Man
over a year ago
West London |
"
Simple solution !
No Guns , No Shootings ! "
It is. I agree. I believe that's been suggested. If you could please explain how to implement the "simple solution" that would be splendid  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I dont see the problem.Natural selection works beautifully. Americans are big consumers of the world's resources. They only make up a tiny 5% of the global population yet consume 25% of its resources. The more guns the better.Everyone should have at least 2 guns.The only problem is Americans keep replicating. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Actually they have less guns per capita than Canada but Canada has a fraction of the gun shootings?.
Seems there's a little more to it than just owning a gun |
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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago
Hereford |
"Actually they have less guns per capita than Canada but Canada has a fraction of the gun shootings?.
Seems there's a little more to it than just owning a gun"
Or Switzerland, if I recall correctly. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Actually they have less guns per capita than Canada but Canada has a fraction of the gun shootings?.
Seems there's a little more to it than just owning a gun
Or Switzerland, if I recall correctly. "
.
Quite possibly |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Actually they have less guns per capita than Canada but Canada has a fraction of the gun shootings?.
Seems there's a little more to it than just owning a gun
Or Switzerland, if I recall correctly. .
Quite possibly"
Seem to recall Switzerland has one of the higher rates of suicide by gun. |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"House vote to end rule that prevents people with mental illness from buying guns.
You couldn't make this up!
The Independent
http://newscdn.newsrep.net/h5/nrshare.html?r=3&lan=en_GB&pid=14&id=1J844de4f52_uk&app_lan=&mcc=234&declared_lan=en_GB&pubaccount=ocms_0&referrer=200620&showall=1&mcc=234"
Must be because Donald Trump wants to buy a gun lol |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Actually they have less guns per capita than Canada but Canada has a fraction of the gun shootings?.
Seems there's a little more to it than just owning a gun
Or Switzerland, if I recall correctly. .
Quite possibly
Seem to recall Switzerland has one of the higher rates of suicide by gun."
.
That would make sense if they have a lot of guns but the real question is do they have a higher suicide rate because of guns?.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Actually they have less guns per capita than Canada but Canada has a fraction of the gun shootings?.
Seems there's a little more to it than just owning a gun
Or Switzerland, if I recall correctly. .
Quite possibly
Seem to recall Switzerland has one of the higher rates of suicide by gun..
That would make sense if they have a lot of guns but the real question is do they have a higher suicide rate because of guns?.
"
Perhaps it's just cheaper than Dignatis, but seriously if someone is hellbent on killing themselves it'll be done by any means guns are probably just easier to get hold of |
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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago
Hereford |
"Actually they have less guns per capita than Canada but Canada has a fraction of the gun shootings?.
Seems there's a little more to it than just owning a gun
Or Switzerland, if I recall correctly. .
Quite possibly
Seem to recall Switzerland has one of the higher rates of suicide by gun."
That would make sense. As I recall, everybody does national service in Switzerland, and I think they keep their firearm afterwards. If you were gonna top yourself and you had a firearm handy, it'd probably be a darn sight less hassle then finding other, more novel ways to kill yourself. |
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"Seem to recall Switzerland has one of the higher rates of suicide by gun..
That would make sense if they have a lot of guns but the real question is do they have a higher suicide rate because of guns?.
"
Every male between the age of 17 and 55 is a member of the Swiss armed forces. They each have an issued assault rifle and 80 rounds (if I remember correctly) that they store in their homes. Not only does Switzerland have one of the highest suicide by gun rate in the world it also has one of the highest rates of domestic gun crime in the world and the most used weapon is a military issue assault rifle. The Swiss government are not so keen on publishing the numbers so many of the shootings are dealt with by military courts on the grounds that when a military weapon and ammunition are used by a reservist it is a military offence.
As for Canada there are estimated to be 9.1 million firearms in circulation that is 31 per 100 of the population.
In the USA there are estimated to be between 270 and 350 million firearms in circulation, that is 112 per 100 of the population.
The USA is number 1 in the world for firearms per capita, Serbia is No 2, Yemen 3 and Switzerland 4. The UK ranks 82... |
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"Seem to recall Switzerland has one of the higher rates of suicide by gun..
That would make sense if they have a lot of guns but the real question is do they have a higher suicide rate because of guns?.
Every male between the age of 17 and 55 is a member of the Swiss armed forces. They each have an issued assault rifle and 80 rounds (if I remember correctly) that they store in their homes. Not only does Switzerland have one of the highest suicide by gun rate in the world it also has one of the highest rates of domestic gun crime in the world and the most used weapon is a military issue assault rifle. The Swiss government are not so keen on publishing the numbers so many of the shootings are dealt with by military courts on the grounds that when a military weapon and ammunition are used by a reservist it is a military offence.
As for Canada there are estimated to be 9.1 million firearms in circulation that is 31 per 100 of the population.
In the USA there are estimated to be between 270 and 350 million firearms in circulation, that is 112 per 100 of the population.
The USA is number 1 in the world for firearms per capita, Serbia is No 2, Yemen 3 and Switzerland 4. The UK ranks 82..."
And yet the numbers of murders by firearms per million is about 0.2 in the UK and 40 in the US which puts the UK in 44th place and the US in 10th. So clearly, whilst there is a link between gun ownership and gun crime, it's not a simple linier relationship
Also it's interesting to note that in the 10 years after 1997 (the year hand guns were banned in the UK) the actually amount of gun crime in the UK didn't drop, it increased.
Banning hand guns in the UK, a bit like The Dangerous Dogs ban, was a simplistic solution to a complex problem and, like most simplistic solutions to complex problems, it didn't solve the problem. That's not say that I agree with the US position on the right to hold arms nor that I'm against the UK ban on hand guns but just that the problem is more complex than it at first might seem. |
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"And yet the numbers of murders by firearms per million is about 0.2 in the UK and 40 in the US which puts the UK in 44th place and the US in 10th. So clearly, whilst there is a link between gun ownership and gun crime, it's not a simple linier relationship"
Well that's quite interesting. However I would suggest that you are misinterpreting the figures because you do not have the full facts.
There was a little publicised (but in the public domain) study done by NATO in the late 70's to identify why British troops preformed so much better than the troops of all other NATO countries when it came to rounds fired to kill ratio. The conclusions were so stark that the study was expanded to include those convicted of violent gun crimes and the results remained the same.
Most troops (regardless of training) shoot to miss. They spray fire in a general direction without aiming and subconsciously adjust the aim point to shoot the sky and refused to acknowledge any kills they may have scored. British troops did not do this, they consciously aimed to kill and used every skill or aid available to score hits and were proud or even boastful when they scored hits. The same proved true when criminals were examined.
The conclusion of the report was that British reserve is a bottled up rage and blood lust, and that we all have it bubbling under the surface. As a result when we loose control we are trying to kill whoever is the cause of our fear and target of our rage. However in most of the rest of the world when people loose control they use violence as a means to escape.
Maybe this is why although we have very low gun ownership we have relatively high violent crime and homicide rates. I would further suggest that if we had the same sort of levels of gun ownership as the USA our streets would be run red with the blood of our dead and make the USA look like a kindergarten. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I always find British people discussing American gun culture to be interesting. I'm American and I barely understand it and yet everyone in the UK seems to know what's up.
I shouldn't be surprised though -Piers Morgan did such a great job telling the Americans what they needed to change regarding our gun laws while he was there.  |
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"And yet the numbers of murders by firearms per million is about 0.2 in the UK and 40 in the US which puts the UK in 44th place and the US in 10th. So clearly, whilst there is a link between gun ownership and gun crime, it's not a simple linier relationship
Well that's quite interesting. However I would suggest that you are misinterpreting the figures because you do not have the full facts.
There was a little publicised (but in the public domain) study done by NATO in the late 70's to identify why British troops preformed so much better than the troops of all other NATO countries when it came to rounds fired to kill ratio. The conclusions were so stark that the study was expanded to include those convicted of violent gun crimes and the results remained the same.
Most troops (regardless of training) shoot to miss. They spray fire in a general direction without aiming and subconsciously adjust the aim point to shoot the sky and refused to acknowledge any kills they may have scored. British troops did not do this, they consciously aimed to kill and used every skill or aid available to score hits and were proud or even boastful when they scored hits. The same proved true when criminals were examined.
The conclusion of the report was that British reserve is a bottled up rage and blood lust, and that we all have it bubbling under the surface. As a result when we loose control we are trying to kill whoever is the cause of our fear and target of our rage. However in most of the rest of the world when people loose control they use violence as a means to escape.
Maybe this is why although we have very low gun ownership we have relatively high violent crime and homicide rates. I would further suggest that if we had the same sort of levels of gun ownership as the USA our streets would be run red with the blood of our dead and make the USA look like a kindergarten."
I am actually aware of the kill rate statistics you quote although I wasn't aware that it applied to crime as well as conflict. But it actually goes to the point of what I'm saying that it's not just the number of guns or their accessibility that leads to higher or lower numbers of gun crimes. |
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"I am actually aware of the kill rate statistics you quote although I wasn't aware that it applied to crime as well as conflict. But it actually goes to the point of what I'm saying that it's not just the number of guns or their accessibility that leads to higher or lower numbers of gun crimes."
WoW! I am impressed.
May I ask how you are aware of the statistics? They are not widely know outside military circles. |
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"I am actually aware of the kill rate statistics you quote although I wasn't aware that it applied to crime as well as conflict. But it actually goes to the point of what I'm saying that it's not just the number of guns or their accessibility that leads to higher or lower numbers of gun crimes.
WoW! I am impressed.
May I ask how you are aware of the statistics? They are not widely know outside military circles."
I heard about them in relation to the kill rates of British and US forces compared to Iraqi forces. At the time I heard about them the reasoning for the difference was put down to the more intense training given to British and US forces (so a little different from the report you mention). It's also been known since WWI that most soldiers actually try to avoid a kill shot unless intensely trained to do so. There is a downside to the increased kill rate of British and US forces and that is that British and US forces are far more likely to suffer PTSD. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Seem to recall Switzerland has one of the higher rates of suicide by gun..
That would make sense if they have a lot of guns but the real question is do they have a higher suicide rate because of guns?.
Every male between the age of 17 and 55 is a member of the Swiss armed forces. They each have an issued assault rifle and 80 rounds (if I remember correctly) that they store in their homes. Not only does Switzerland have one of the highest suicide by gun rate in the world it also has one of the highest rates of domestic gun crime in the world and the most used weapon is a military issue assault rifle. The Swiss government are not so keen on publishing the numbers so many of the shootings are dealt with by military courts on the grounds that when a military weapon and ammunition are used by a reservist it is a military offence.
As for Canada there are estimated to be 9.1 million firearms in circulation that is 31 per 100 of the population.
In the USA there are estimated to be between 270 and 350 million firearms in circulation, that is 112 per 100 of the population.
The USA is number 1 in the world for firearms per capita, Serbia is No 2, Yemen 3 and Switzerland 4. The UK ranks 82..."
.
It's very interesting though as Canada could be said to be very close culturally to the USA, close geographically and similar sort of access to weapons but far less gun crime?.
This is alot more complex than you first think.
You'd have to conclude that the USA live in a statistical anomaly and due to that then maybe they're the very people that need access restricting for their own good |
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"Seem to recall Switzerland has one of the higher rates of suicide by gun..
That would make sense if they have a lot of guns but the real question is do they have a higher suicide rate because of guns?.
Every male between the age of 17 and 55 is a member of the Swiss armed forces. They each have an issued assault rifle and 80 rounds (if I remember correctly) that they store in their homes. Not only does Switzerland have one of the highest suicide by gun rate in the world it also has one of the highest rates of domestic gun crime in the world and the most used weapon is a military issue assault rifle. The Swiss government are not so keen on publishing the numbers so many of the shootings are dealt with by military courts on the grounds that when a military weapon and ammunition are used by a reservist it is a military offence.
As for Canada there are estimated to be 9.1 million firearms in circulation that is 31 per 100 of the population.
In the USA there are estimated to be between 270 and 350 million firearms in circulation, that is 112 per 100 of the population.
The USA is number 1 in the world for firearms per capita, Serbia is No 2, Yemen 3 and Switzerland 4. The UK ranks 82....
It's very interesting though as Canada could be said to be very close culturally to the USA, close geographically and similar sort of access to weapons but far less gun crime?.
This is alot more complex than you first think.
You'd have to conclude that the USA live in a statistical anomaly and due to that then maybe they're the very people that need access restricting for their own good"
Canada is very different, culturally, from the USA ( mindvyou, different parts of the USA are very culturally different from each other too.
You can't make that generalisation . |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
This is alot more complex than you first think.
You'd have to conclude that the USA live in a statistical anomaly and due to that then maybe they're the very people that need access restricting for their own good
Canada is very different, culturally, from the USA ( mindvyou, different parts of the USA are very culturally different from each other too.
You can't make that generalisation ."
.
I dunno I can't tell the difference between a yank and a Canuck...I know I'm a giant racist there  .
I think civil wars especially very brutal ones cut very deep and leave very long wide scars |
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