FabSwingers.com > Forums > Politics > Brexit bill is passed in Parliament
Brexit bill is passed in Parliament
Jump to: Newest in thread
"Yesssssssssssss!!!!!
Parliament has now voted on the Brexit bill to give Teresa May the power to trigger article 50. MP's voted in favour with a majority of 498 MP's and only 114 voted against the bill. There will be debate next week in Parliament for ammendments to the bill but the momentum is clearly with Brexit now. Now Teresa May has been given the authority to trigger article 50 there is no stopping the UK's withdrawal from the EU.
As a side note I'd love to see the look on Gina Miller's face right now.  "
Gina Miller is delighted.
It has been done legally ; that's all she wanted.
And now the government has to continue acting legally. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
Amazing, post after post about brexit, facts and lies thrown about, personal abuse etc and now it's been passed you can almost see the tumbles....not a bad thing I suppose, now we can get back to talking about sex. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
 |
By *atcoupleCouple
over a year ago
Suffolk - East Anglia |
"Amazing, post after post about brexit, facts and lies thrown about, personal abuse etc and now it's been passed you can almost see the tumbles....not a bad thing I suppose, now we can get back to talking about sex. "
But getting out of the EU is the next best thing to sex.  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Amazing, post after post about brexit, facts and lies thrown about, personal abuse etc and now it's been passed you can almost see the tumbles....not a bad thing I suppose, now we can get back to talking about sex. "
Lol, I think the Remainers are in shock. Think they thought it would never get passed. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Amazing, post after post about brexit, facts and lies thrown about, personal abuse etc and now it's been passed you can almost see the tumbles....not a bad thing I suppose, now we can get back to talking about sex.
Lol, I think the Remainers are in shock. Think they thought it would never get passed. "
....but that was never going to happen, surely everyone knew this. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Amazing, post after post about brexit, facts and lies thrown about, personal abuse etc and now it's been passed you can almost see the tumbles....not a bad thing I suppose, now we can get back to talking about sex.
Lol, I think the Remainers are in shock. Think they thought it would never get passed. "
On the contrary; there was never a doubt that it would be passed.
It is excellent news that the government has had to behave legally;
It is sad that they had to be taught how the constitution works;
It is good that they have been made to debate the most important issue facing the UK for over 50 years, even though it was rushed.
It is great that they will now have to do the right thing, and explain what they are doing, instead of doing deals in secret.
It is good that the debate exposed a number of other elements, which the government would have " buried" such as the issue of Euratom.
It is good that there will now be questioning of government actions, and ( almost) proper scrutiny of what they do.
It has exposed the fact that the government still has no idea what it is going to do, and has no plan whatsoever.
And that the various departments charged with achieving BREXIT, are in utter chaos. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Amazing, post after post about brexit, facts and lies thrown about, personal abuse etc and now it's been passed you can almost see the tumbles....not a bad thing I suppose, now we can get back to talking about sex.
Lol, I think the Remainers are in shock. Think they thought it would never get passed. "
Or just fed up explaining stupidity to a brick wall. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"Amazing, post after post about brexit, facts and lies thrown about, personal abuse etc and now it's been passed you can almost see the tumbles....not a bad thing I suppose, now we can get back to talking about sex. "
Now it's been passed? Brexit hasnt even started yet. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago
Barbados |
"Amazing, post after post about brexit, facts and lies thrown about, personal abuse etc and now it's been passed you can almost see the tumbles....not a bad thing I suppose, now we can get back to talking about sex.
Lol, I think the Remainers are in shock. Think they thought it would never get passed.
On the contrary; there was never a doubt that it would be passed.
It is excellent news that the government has had to behave legally;
It is sad that they had to be taught how the constitution works;
It is good that they have been made to debate the most important issue facing the UK for over 50 years, even though it was rushed.
It is great that they will now have to do the right thing, and explain what they are doing, instead of doing deals in secret.
It is good that the debate exposed a number of other elements, which the government would have " buried" such as the issue of Euratom.
It is good that there will now be questioning of government actions, and ( almost) proper scrutiny of what they do.
It has exposed the fact that the government still has no idea what it is going to do, and has no plan whatsoever.
And that the various departments charged with achieving BREXIT, are in utter chaos."
Indeed. Still a shame they couldn't get the white paper together before the debate... seems a bit daft debating something *before* you set out your plan. But I guess the government still don't actually have a plan to show yet.
But yes, very glad that this has all gone through legally and the government didn't try to set a precedent for using royal prerogative to overturn things that were inconvenient to it.
-Matt |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Yesssssssssssss!!!!!
Parliament has now voted on the Brexit bill to give Teresa May the power to trigger article 50. MP's voted in favour with a majority of 498 MP's and only 114 voted against the bill. There will be debate next week in Parliament for ammendments to the bill but the momentum is clearly with Brexit now. Now Teresa May has been given the authority to trigger article 50 there is no stopping the UK's withdrawal from the EU.
As a side note I'd love to see the look on Gina Miller's face right now.
Gina Miller is delighted.
It has been done legally ; that's all she wanted.
And now the government has to continue acting legally."
Exactly though he does seem to try and put people down at any opportunity even if he's factually incorrect, which is quite often  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Amazing, post after post about brexit, facts and lies thrown about, personal abuse etc and now it's been passed you can almost see the tumbles....not a bad thing I suppose, now we can get back to talking about sex.
Lol, I think the Remainers are in shock. Think they thought it would never get passed.
On the contrary; there was never a doubt that it would be passed.
It is excellent news that the government has had to behave legally;
It is sad that they had to be taught how the constitution works;
It is good that they have been made to debate the most important issue facing the UK for over 50 years, even though it was rushed.
It is great that they will now have to do the right thing, and explain what they are doing, instead of doing deals in secret.
It is good that the debate exposed a number of other elements, which the government would have " buried" such as the issue of Euratom.
It is good that there will now be questioning of government actions, and ( almost) proper scrutiny of what they do.
It has exposed the fact that the government still has no idea what it is going to do, and has no plan whatsoever.
And that the various departments charged with achieving BREXIT, are in utter chaos.
Indeed. Still a shame they couldn't get the white paper together before the debate... seems a bit daft debating something *before* you set out your plan. But I guess the government still don't actually have a plan to show yet.
But yes, very glad that this has all gone through legally and the government didn't try to set a precedent for using royal prerogative to overturn things that were inconvenient to it.
-Matt"
White paper with detailed plan will be published today. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Amazing, post after post about brexit, facts and lies thrown about, personal abuse etc and now it's been passed you can almost see the tumbles....not a bad thing I suppose, now we can get back to talking about sex.
Lol, I think the Remainers are in shock. Think they thought it would never get passed.
On the contrary; there was never a doubt that it would be passed.
It is excellent news that the government has had to behave legally;
It is sad that they had to be taught how the constitution works;
It is good that they have been made to debate the most important issue facing the UK for over 50 years, even though it was rushed.
It is great that they will now have to do the right thing, and explain what they are doing, instead of doing deals in secret.
It is good that the debate exposed a number of other elements, which the government would have " buried" such as the issue of Euratom.
It is good that there will now be questioning of government actions, and ( almost) proper scrutiny of what they do.
It has exposed the fact that the government still has no idea what it is going to do, and has no plan whatsoever.
And that the various departments charged with achieving BREXIT, are in utter chaos.
Indeed. Still a shame they couldn't get the white paper together before the debate... seems a bit daft debating something *before* you set out your plan. But I guess the government still don't actually have a plan to show yet.
But yes, very glad that this has all gone through legally and the government didn't try to set a precedent for using royal prerogative to overturn things that were inconvenient to it.
-Matt
White paper with detailed plan will be published today. "
Let's see what the " detailed plan" is.....
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"
As a side note I'd love to see the look on Gina Miller's face right now. "
It is this sort of snide comment that makes you look really petty.... because if you knew anything about the case it was brought as a joint case between one person on the remain side and one on the leave side.. and about how the proceed lawfully post vote
My grandmother was a smart and blunt telling woman... here would have been her sage words
"Instead of acting all smug and belittling people on the other side, if you won, act like you have been there before!"
I'd be tempted to listen because right now you are coming across as a grade a (word deleted) |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"Amazing, post after post about brexit, facts and lies thrown about, personal abuse etc and now it's been passed you can almost see the tumbles....not a bad thing I suppose, now we can get back to talking about sex.
Lol, I think the Remainers are in shock. Think they thought it would never get passed.
On the contrary; there was never a doubt that it would be passed.
It is excellent news that the government has had to behave legally;
It is sad that they had to be taught how the constitution works;
It is good that they have been made to debate the most important issue facing the UK for over 50 years, even though it was rushed.
It is great that they will now have to do the right thing, and explain what they are doing, instead of doing deals in secret.
It is good that the debate exposed a number of other elements, which the government would have " buried" such as the issue of Euratom.
It is good that there will now be questioning of government actions, and ( almost) proper scrutiny of what they do.
It has exposed the fact that the government still has no idea what it is going to do, and has no plan whatsoever.
And that the various departments charged with achieving BREXIT, are in utter chaos.
Indeed. Still a shame they couldn't get the white paper together before the debate... seems a bit daft debating something *before* you set out your plan. But I guess the government still don't actually have a plan to show yet.
But yes, very glad that this has all gone through legally and the government didn't try to set a precedent for using royal prerogative to overturn things that were inconvenient to it.
-Matt
White paper with detailed plan will be published today. "
Yet the debate and vote was yesterday  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Amazing, post after post about brexit, facts and lies thrown about, personal abuse etc and now it's been passed you can almost see the tumbles....not a bad thing I suppose, now we can get back to talking about sex.
Lol, I think the Remainers are in shock. Think they thought it would never get passed.
On the contrary; there was never a doubt that it would be passed.
It is excellent news that the government has had to behave legally;
It is sad that they had to be taught how the constitution works;
It is good that they have been made to debate the most important issue facing the UK for over 50 years, even though it was rushed.
It is great that they will now have to do the right thing, and explain what they are doing, instead of doing deals in secret.
It is good that the debate exposed a number of other elements, which the government would have " buried" such as the issue of Euratom.
It is good that there will now be questioning of government actions, and ( almost) proper scrutiny of what they do.
It has exposed the fact that the government still has no idea what it is going to do, and has no plan whatsoever.
And that the various departments charged with achieving BREXIT, are in utter chaos.
Indeed. Still a shame they couldn't get the white paper together before the debate... seems a bit daft debating something *before* you set out your plan. But I guess the government still don't actually have a plan to show yet.
But yes, very glad that this has all gone through legally and the government didn't try to set a precedent for using royal prerogative to overturn things that were inconvenient to it.
-Matt
White paper with detailed plan will be published today.
Yet the debate and vote was yesterday "
Indeed; though technically legal, not accepted procedure.
And the ignorance of the EU and international affairs by UK Politicians is appalling .
We shall see what happens in the committee stages and beyond.
Sadly, now they have had their vote, I guess they will lose interest and return to ignoring the rest of the world for another 40 years.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
As a side note I'd love to see the look on Gina Miller's face right now.
It is this sort of snide comment that makes you look really petty.... because if you knew anything about the case it was brought as a joint case between one person on the remain side and one on the leave side.. and about how the proceed lawfully post vote
My grandmother was a smart and blunt telling woman... here would have been her sage words
"Instead of acting all smug and belittling people on the other side, if you won, act like you have been there before!"
I'd be tempted to listen because right now you are coming across as a grade a (word deleted)"
I make no apologies for belittling Gina Miller. This arrogant woman's only intention with that court case was an attempt at sabotage of Brexit, you know it, I know it and everyone else knows it. Maybe now she can crawl back under the rock from whence she came now her attempt at sabotage has fallen flat on its face. If she is crying in her cornflakes this morning then I'll happily take great pleasure in it.
As for proceeding lawfully maybe you forgot that 3 supreme court judges rules in favour of the government and the use of Royal Perogative, the law is a matter of interpretation so the government were not doing anything illegal in the eyes of 3 supreme court judges. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"
As a side note I'd love to see the look on Gina Miller's face right now.
It is this sort of snide comment that makes you look really petty.... because if you knew anything about the case it was brought as a joint case between one person on the remain side and one on the leave side.. and about how the proceed lawfully post vote
My grandmother was a smart and blunt telling woman... here would have been her sage words
"Instead of acting all smug and belittling people on the other side, if you won, act like you have been there before!"
I'd be tempted to listen because right now you are coming across as a grade a (word deleted)
I make no apologies for belittling Gina Miller. This arrogant woman's only intention with that court case was an attempt at sabotage of Brexit, you know it, I know it and everyone else knows it. Maybe now she can crawl back under the rock from whence she came now her attempt at sabotage has fallen flat on its face. If she is crying in her cornflakes this morning then I'll happily take great pleasure in it.
As for proceeding lawfully maybe you forgot that 3 supreme court judges rules in favour of the government and the use of Royal Perogative, the law is a matter of interpretation so the government were not doing anything illegal in the eyes of 3 supreme court judges. "
Well done centaur for actually proving that you don't read what people write.... so let me try this again really..........really slowly for you
The case against the government was brought by TWO people, one who voted to leave, one who voted to remain
Those TWO people BOTH argued points of constitutional law where the judges decided for them
The case was arguing about the way to proceed going forward, not about stopping the process!
Jesus you can be a prize tit at times..... |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
As a side note I'd love to see the look on Gina Miller's face right now.
It is this sort of snide comment that makes you look really petty.... because if you knew anything about the case it was brought as a joint case between one person on the remain side and one on the leave side.. and about how the proceed lawfully post vote
My grandmother was a smart and blunt telling woman... here would have been her sage words
"Instead of acting all smug and belittling people on the other side, if you won, act like you have been there before!"
I'd be tempted to listen because right now you are coming across as a grade a (word deleted)
I make no apologies for belittling Gina Miller. This arrogant woman's only intention with that court case was an attempt at sabotage of Brexit, you know it, I know it and everyone else knows it. Maybe now she can crawl back under the rock from whence she came now her attempt at sabotage has fallen flat on its face. If she is crying in her cornflakes this morning then I'll happily take great pleasure in it.
As for proceeding lawfully maybe you forgot that 3 supreme court judges rules in favour of the government and the use of Royal Perogative, the law is a matter of interpretation so the government were not doing anything illegal in the eyes of 3 supreme court judges. "
Usual mangling if the facts and reality;
It matters not a jot whether 3 judges disagreed;
The court as a whole, deemed that the government was circumventing the law, so de facto, that is the case.
Gina Millar will be celebrating today, that she was the citizen who forced the government to behave lawfully.
She is a national hero for preventing the government from permanently undermining the UK constitution.
As can be seen from everything, including the debate, and the prevarication over the white paper, the government continues to do its best to avoid being accountable to parliament.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
As a side note I'd love to see the look on Gina Miller's face right now.
It is this sort of snide comment that makes you look really petty.... because if you knew anything about the case it was brought as a joint case between one person on the remain side and one on the leave side.. and about how the proceed lawfully post vote
My grandmother was a smart and blunt telling woman... here would have been her sage words
"Instead of acting all smug and belittling people on the other side, if you won, act like you have been there before!"
I'd be tempted to listen because right now you are coming across as a grade a (word deleted)
I make no apologies for belittling Gina Miller. This arrogant woman's only intention with that court case was an attempt at sabotage of Brexit, you know it, I know it and everyone else knows it. Maybe now she can crawl back under the rock from whence she came now her attempt at sabotage has fallen flat on its face. If she is crying in her cornflakes this morning then I'll happily take great pleasure in it.
As for proceeding lawfully maybe you forgot that 3 supreme court judges rules in favour of the government and the use of Royal Perogative, the law is a matter of interpretation so the government were not doing anything illegal in the eyes of 3 supreme court judges. "
.. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
In the voting lies the latest example of whinging, Left wing, re-moaning hypocrisy, as fifty of the MPs who voted against the implementation of Article 50 voted FOR the Referendum Bill. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Its always amazes me that brexiters were angry and bitter before the referendum and are still bitter and angry even when they've won.Life's to short to suck lemons daily.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Its always amazes me that brexiters were angry and bitter before the referendum and are still bitter and angry even when they've won.Life's to short to suck lemons daily.
"
They can't bring themselves to admit that it is a clusterfuck of biblical proportions ;
So just mindlessly attack anyone who raises any concern whatsoever.
It would be funny, if it didn't show how fucked the UK is.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Its always amazes me that brexiters were angry and bitter before the referendum and are still bitter and angry even when they've won.Life's to short to suck lemons daily.
They can't bring themselves to admit that it is a clusterfuck of biblical proportions ;
So just mindlessly attack anyone who raises any concern whatsoever.
It would be funny, if it didn't show how fucked the UK is.
"
..biblical proportions.?? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Its always amazes me that brexiters were angry and bitter before the referendum and are still bitter and angry even when they've won.Life's to short to suck lemons daily.
They can't bring themselves to admit that it is a clusterfuck of biblical proportions ;
So just mindlessly attack anyone who raises any concern whatsoever.
It would be funny, if it didn't show how fucked the UK is.
..biblical proportions.?? "
Yes;
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Its always amazes me that brexiters were angry and bitter before the referendum and are still bitter and angry even when they've won.Life's to short to suck lemons daily.
They can't bring themselves to admit that it is a clusterfuck of biblical proportions ;
So just mindlessly attack anyone who raises any concern whatsoever.
It would be funny, if it didn't show how fucked the UK is.
..biblical proportions.??
Yes;
"
your going to have shit hemeridge when le Pen is voted in then.
.. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *obka3Couple
over a year ago
bournemouth |
"Its always amazes me that brexiters were angry and bitter before the referendum and are still bitter and angry even when they've won.Life's to short to suck lemons daily.
They can't bring themselves to admit that it is a clusterfuck of biblical proportions ;
So just mindlessly attack anyone who raises any concern whatsoever.
It would be funny, if it didn't show how fucked the UK is.
..biblical proportions.??
Yes;
your going to have shit hemeridge when le Pen is voted in then.
.."
As much as part of me wishes she would win I cant see it myself, but after last year you never know |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago
Barbados |
"As for proceeding lawfully maybe you forgot that 3 supreme court judges rules in favour of the government and the use of Royal Perogative, the law is a matter of interpretation so the government were not doing anything illegal in the eyes of 3 supreme court judges. "
Great, so does that mean you'll now shut the fuck up complaining that 48% of the vote results were for a different viewpoint to you?
-Matt |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
I make no apologies for belittling Gina Miller. This arrogant woman's only intention with that court case was an attempt at sabotage of Brexit, you know it, I know it and everyone else knows it. Maybe now she can crawl back under the rock from whence she came now her attempt at sabotage has fallen flat on its face. If she is crying in her cornflakes this morning then I'll happily take great pleasure in it.
As for proceeding lawfully maybe you forgot that 3 supreme court judges rules in favour of the government and the use of Royal Perogative, the law is a matter of interpretation so the government were not doing anything illegal in the eyes of 3 supreme court judges. "
But ukip are all about 'taking back control' aren't they?, in 6 months Miller has done more to assert parliamentary sovereignty than Farage has in a lifetime of pocketing expenses. As for your 3 judges you know full well the other 8 saw the arguement for what it was. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I've been a bit busy with work to keep up of late.
Am I right in thinking they had the vote on triggering Article 50 BEFORE they got the White Paper on it to debate? "
Yep;
The government were forced to comply with the law;
They did manage to undermine the process to get a debate on something that did not exist, though,
So their attempts to undermine the constitution continue.
At least they will be required to follow a process which is nearly correct, and parliament will have a very small opportunity to examine what they are up to.
It's rather ironic that " take back control" means " let the 1922 committee run the country" |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I've been a bit busy with work to keep up of late.
Am I right in thinking they had the vote on triggering Article 50 BEFORE they got the White Paper on it to debate?
Yep;
The government were forced to comply with the law;
They did manage to undermine the process to get a debate on something that did not exist, though,
So their attempts to undermine the constitution continue.
At least they will be required to follow a process which is nearly correct, and parliament will have a very small opportunity to examine what they are up to.
It's rather ironic that " take back control" means " let the 1922 committee run the country""
Also funny that Tim Farron and the Lib dems couldn't even be arsed to turn up and engage in the Brexit debate in Parliament before the vote which they so desperately said they wanted. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I've been a bit busy with work to keep up of late.
Am I right in thinking they had the vote on triggering Article 50 BEFORE they got the White Paper on it to debate?
Yep;
The government were forced to comply with the law;
They did manage to undermine the process to get a debate on something that did not exist, though,
So their attempts to undermine the constitution continue.
At least they will be required to follow a process which is nearly correct, and parliament will have a very small opportunity to examine what they are up to.
It's rather ironic that " take back control" means " let the 1922 committee run the country"
Also funny that Tim Farron and the Lib dems couldn't even be arsed to turn up and engage in the Brexit debate in Parliament before the vote which they so desperately said they wanted. "
Funny how you didn't see them there.
More Breitbart alternative facts....
Pointless debate anyway really.
But it did make the beleavers squirm a bit. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I've been a bit busy with work to keep up of late.
Am I right in thinking they had the vote on triggering Article 50 BEFORE they got the White Paper on it to debate?
Yep;
The government were forced to comply with the law;
They did manage to undermine the process to get a debate on something that did not exist, though,
So their attempts to undermine the constitution continue.
At least they will be required to follow a process which is nearly correct, and parliament will have a very small opportunity to examine what they are up to.
It's rather ironic that " take back control" means " let the 1922 committee run the country"
Also funny that Tim Farron and the Lib dems couldn't even be arsed to turn up and engage in the Brexit debate in Parliament before the vote which they so desperately said they wanted.
Funny how you didn't see them there.
More Breitbart alternative facts....
Pointless debate anyway really.
But it did make the beleavers squirm a bit."
Yes Farron was there for all of 10 minutes. Pitiful attendance on a debate which he claimed he so desperately wanted to have in Parliament. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
As a side note I'd love to see the look on Gina Miller's face right now.
It is this sort of snide comment that makes you look really petty.... because if you knew anything about the case it was brought as a joint case between one person on the remain side and one on the leave side.. and about how the proceed lawfully post vote
My grandmother was a smart and blunt telling woman... here would have been her sage words
"Instead of acting all smug and belittling people on the other side, if you won, act like you have been there before!"
I'd be tempted to listen because right now you are coming across as a grade a (word deleted)"
You mention SMUG , Gina miller is a smug ******* ! The look on her face when she left court
I doubt very much that she was interested in the constitution !
Hopefully will never see or hear of her again |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"I
Also funny that Tim Farron and the Lib dems couldn't even be arsed to turn up and engage in the Brexit debate in Parliament before the vote which they so desperately said they wanted. "
My god you really are trying to bait and switch today and it's not doing you any favours....
Sit down and have a cup of tea.... then when you brain decides to function again come back
At the moment you are like a hand grenade of pish and tosh |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *obka3Couple
over a year ago
bournemouth |
"I've been a bit busy with work to keep up of late.
Am I right in thinking they had the vote on triggering Article 50 BEFORE they got the White Paper on it to debate?
Yep;
The government were forced to comply with the law;
They did manage to undermine the process to get a debate on something that did not exist, though,
So their attempts to undermine the constitution continue.
At least they will be required to follow a process which is nearly correct, and parliament will have a very small opportunity to examine what they are up to.
It's rather ironic that " take back control" means " let the 1922 committee run the country"
Also funny that Tim Farron and the Lib dems couldn't even be arsed to turn up and engage in the Brexit debate in Parliament before the vote which they so desperately said they wanted.
Funny how you didn't see them there.
More Breitbart alternative facts....
Pointless debate anyway really.
But it did make the beleavers squirm a bit.
Yes Farron was there for all of 10 minutes. Pitiful attendance on a debate which he claimed he so desperately wanted to have in Parliament. "
Diane Abbott had a very convenient migrane so she was unable to vote to trigger art 50 looks like she didnt want to have to go against her ex |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"
You mention SMUG , Gina miller is a smug ******* ! The look on her face when she left court
I doubt very much that she was interested in the constitution !
Hopefully will never see or hear of her again "
For the love of god how many times does it have to be mentioned that TWO people brought forward the question in law, one person voted leave, one remain
It was done that way so it didn't look like it was done by one side complaining... they BOTH had the same legal question arising from the results
No wonder the poor lady got so much abuse, so many people don't have a clue |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I
Also funny that Tim Farron and the Lib dems couldn't even be arsed to turn up and engage in the Brexit debate in Parliament before the vote which they so desperately said they wanted.
My god you really are trying to bait and switch today and it's not doing you any favours....
Sit down and have a cup of tea.... then when you brain decides to function again come back
At the moment you are like a hand grenade of pish and tosh "
The only one name calling on here Fabio is you. It's clear you've lost the argument if all you can do is hurl insults. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
You mention SMUG , Gina miller is a smug ******* ! The look on her face when she left court
I doubt very much that she was interested in the constitution !
Hopefully will never see or hear of her again
For the love of god how many times does it have to be mentioned that TWO people brought forward the question in law, one person voted leave, one remain
It was done that way so it didn't look like it was done by one side complaining... they BOTH had the same legal question arising from the results
No wonder the poor lady got so much abuse, so many people don't have a clue "
It was Gina Miller who went out of her way to get her mug on telly at every opportunity though wasn't it. This is the woman who said that the Brexit vote on June 23rd last year made her feel physically sick. It's clear what her motivations behind the case were and it wasn't protecting the sovereignty of Parliament. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"
The only one name calling on here Fabio is you. It's clear you've lost the argument if all you can do is hurl insults. "
Again.... bait and switch
You are not making any coherent sense at the moment which is why I suggested a cup of tea
No point having a debate with you at the moment because you are all over the shop
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"
You mention SMUG , Gina miller is a smug ******* ! The look on her face when she left court
I doubt very much that she was interested in the constitution !
Hopefully will never see or hear of her again
For the love of god how many times does it have to be mentioned that TWO people brought forward the question in law, one person voted leave, one remain
It was done that way so it didn't look like it was done by one side complaining... they BOTH had the same legal question arising from the results
No wonder the poor lady got so much abuse, so many people don't have a clue
It was Gina Miller who went out of her way to get her mug on telly at every opportunity though wasn't it. This is the woman who said that the Brexit vote on June 23rd last year made her feel physically sick. It's clear what her motivations behind the case were and it wasn't protecting the sovereignty of Parliament. "
For Christ sake, when in a hole stop digging.... it's obvious what you are doing so I'm done with this thread |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
You mention SMUG , Gina miller is a smug ******* ! The look on her face when she left court
I doubt very much that she was interested in the constitution !
Hopefully will never see or hear of her again
For the love of god how many times does it have to be mentioned that TWO people brought forward the question in law, one person voted leave, one remain
It was done that way so it didn't look like it was done by one side complaining... they BOTH had the same legal question arising from the results
No wonder the poor lady got so much abuse, so many people don't have a clue
It was Gina Miller who went out of her way to get her mug on telly at every opportunity though wasn't it. This is the woman who said that the Brexit vote on June 23rd last year made her feel physically sick. It's clear what her motivations behind the case were and it wasn't protecting the sovereignty of Parliament.
For Christ sake, when in a hole stop digging.... it's obvious what you are doing so I'm done with this thread "
Sure go and watch some CNN, the fake news on there may act as a comfort blanket to you. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
You mention SMUG , Gina miller is a smug ******* ! The look on her face when she left court
I doubt very much that she was interested in the constitution !
Hopefully will never see or hear of her again
For the love of god how many times does it have to be mentioned that TWO people brought forward the question in law, one person voted leave, one remain
It was done that way so it didn't look like it was done by one side complaining... they BOTH had the same legal question arising from the results
No wonder the poor lady got so much abuse, so many people don't have a clue
It was Gina Miller who went out of her way to get her mug on telly at every opportunity though wasn't it. This is the woman who said that the Brexit vote on June 23rd last year made her feel physically sick. It's clear what her motivations behind the case were and it wasn't protecting the sovereignty of Parliament. "
Gina Miller is a nothing. She's had her 15 minutes of fame now and will go crawling back into the sewer where she belongs, until she's either given a peerage or she appears on Celebrity Get Me Out of Here. The next vote she will be involved with is whether she eats the kangaroo testicles or not
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
You mention SMUG , Gina miller is a smug ******* ! The look on her face when she left court
I doubt very much that she was interested in the constitution !
Hopefully will never see or hear of her again
For the love of god how many times does it have to be mentioned that TWO people brought forward the question in law, one person voted leave, one remain
It was done that way so it didn't look like it was done by one side complaining... they BOTH had the same legal question arising from the results
No wonder the poor lady got so much abuse, so many people don't have a clue "
I was talking about being smug and the look on her face when she left court and numerous times after was so fucking smug !
I understand why the case was brought and wasn't really bothered either way
But don't tell me I haven't got a clue on the premise of one post , you don't know me well enough to do that !!! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Amazing, post after post about brexit, facts and lies thrown about, personal abuse etc and now it's been passed you can almost see the tumbles....not a bad thing I suppose, now we can get back to talking about sex. "
Looks like I spoke too soon  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"
Gina Miller is a nothing. She's had her 15 minutes of fame now and will go crawling back into the sewer where she belongs, until she's either given a peerage or she appears on Celebrity Get Me Out of Here. The next vote she will be involved with is whether she eats the kangaroo testicles or not
"
Gina Miller is a "nothing" in the same way everyone on this forum is a nothing. She's not a billionaire, not newspaper owner, not a senior politician, not a union leader, not the CEO of a huge company. She's an ordinary private citizen, who held the government to account to make sure that they acted constitutionally.
It was a British citizen bringing a legal case to British judges sitting in British courts deciding on British laws. Exactly what the leave side campaigned for.
I cannot comprehend why you would want to illegally leave the EU, rather than legally leave the EU. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
The thread has shown unsurprising, though none the less appalling and unacceptable levels of xenophobia and naked hatred against those who dare to question any aspect of BREXIT.
And an unacceptable level of hatred against a British citizen who exercised her right to question the government. And who was proven correct.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
"Its always amazes me that brexiters were angry and bitter before the referendum and are still bitter and angry even when they've won.Life's to short to suck lemons daily.
They can't bring themselves to admit that it is a clusterfuck of biblical proportions ;
So just mindlessly attack anyone who raises any concern whatsoever.
It would be funny, if it didn't show how fucked the UK is.
..biblical proportions.??
Yes;
"
We still have the economic armageddon, world war 3, and the plague of locusts to come yet. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *obka3Couple
over a year ago
bournemouth |
"I see bannon wants a war with China.
"
Yet again more missinformation from you, he said that the US will be involved in a war with china, not that he wanted it and it was nine months ago, ah the good old alternative post truth facts , wrong again dear boy |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
He is now Trumps chief strategist.
The phone call with Taiwan was a strategy that had been developed since before the election.
They are posturing for war. China will not accept threats to them in the South China Sea.
I expect one of their responses will be to start to call in the debt. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Its always amazes me that brexiters were angry and bitter before the referendum and are still bitter and angry even when they've won.Life's to short to suck lemons daily.
They can't bring themselves to admit that it is a clusterfuck of biblical proportions ;
So just mindlessly attack anyone who raises any concern whatsoever.
It would be funny, if it didn't show how fucked the UK is.
..biblical proportions.??
Yes;
We still have the economic armageddon, world war 3, and the plague of locusts to come yet. "
2 out of 3 then;
We haven't had a serious plague of Locusts since they devastated Mali and Sudan and threatened Moroccan agriculture in 2004.
We are possibly due another soon. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
The final vote on the Brexit bill has now been passed in The House of Commons. The Brexit bill has flown through The Commons unamended and the third reading of the bill had almost 500 MP's voting in favour of it, just a little over 100 MP's voted against. A great day for democracy and it's good to see the House of Commons respect the result of the referendum and carry out the Instruction given to them by the British public. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"The final vote on the Brexit bill has now been passed in The House of Commons. The Brexit bill has flown through The Commons unamended and the third reading of the bill had almost 500 MP's voting in favour of it, just a little over 100 MP's voted against. A great day for democracy and it's good to see the House of Commons respect the result of the referendum and carry out the Instruction given to them by the British public. "
Yet you didn't even want them to have a vote on it! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"The final vote on the Brexit bill has now been passed in The House of Commons. The Brexit bill has flown through The Commons unamended and the third reading of the bill had almost 500 MP's voting in favour of it, just a little over 100 MP's voted against. A great day for democracy and it's good to see the House of Commons respect the result of the referendum and carry out the Instruction given to them by the British public.
Yet you didn't even want them to have a vote on it! "
Let's be honest it has all been a bit pointless, you may aswel have given Teresa May permission to use Royal Perogative, would've been the same result. I said on here at the time of the Supreme court ruling it was irrelevant because Parliament would still vote in favour of it with a good majority anyway.
All it has done is to divide the Labour party even more than it was before and to undermine Corbyn's authority more, lol. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"The final vote on the Brexit bill has now been passed in The House of Commons. The Brexit bill has flown through The Commons unamended and the third reading of the bill had almost 500 MP's voting in favour of it, just a little over 100 MP's voted against. A great day for democracy and it's good to see the House of Commons respect the result of the referendum and carry out the Instruction given to them by the British public.
Yet you didn't even want them to have a vote on it!
Let's be honest it has all been a bit pointless, you may aswel have given Teresa May permission to use Royal Perogative, would've been the same result. I said on here at the time of the Supreme court ruling it was irrelevant because Parliament would still vote in favour of it with a good majority anyway.
All it has done is to divide the Labour party even more than it was before and to undermine Corbyn's authority more, lol. "
Yet you were dead set against parliament voting on it, dead set against the High Court ruling on it, and dead set against the Supreme Court ruling on it.
You can laugh all you want at Corbyn, but really you should be kissing his feet. No other Labour leader for a generation would have three line whipped their party to vote for Brexit, in fact they might have three line whipped them to vote the other way for it. Had that happened it would have given cover for more than one Tory to vote against the government and then it could have been a very different story.
You should be thanking your lucky stars for Corbyn. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ammskiMan
over a year ago
lytham st.annes |
"The final vote on the Brexit bill has now been passed in The House of Commons. The Brexit bill has flown through The Commons unamended and the third reading of the bill had almost 500 MP's voting in favour of it, just a little over 100 MP's voted against. A great day for democracy and it's good to see the House of Commons respect the result of the referendum and carry out the Instruction given to them by the British public.
Yet you didn't even want them to have a vote on it! "
And you never wanted brexit to succeed either,tuff luck old chap |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"The final vote on the Brexit bill has now been passed in The House of Commons. The Brexit bill has flown through The Commons unamended and the third reading of the bill had almost 500 MP's voting in favour of it, just a little over 100 MP's voted against. A great day for democracy and it's good to see the House of Commons respect the result of the referendum and carry out the Instruction given to them by the British public.
Yet you didn't even want them to have a vote on it!
Let's be honest it has all been a bit pointless, you may aswel have given Teresa May permission to use Royal Perogative, would've been the same result. I said on here at the time of the Supreme court ruling it was irrelevant because Parliament would still vote in favour of it with a good majority anyway.
All it has done is to divide the Labour party even more than it was before and to undermine Corbyn's authority more, lol.
Yet you were dead set against parliament voting on it, dead set against the High Court ruling on it, and dead set against the Supreme Court ruling on it.
You can laugh all you want at Corbyn, but really you should be kissing his feet. No other Labour leader for a generation would have three line whipped their party to vote for Brexit, in fact they might have three line whipped them to vote the other way for it. Had that happened it would have given cover for more than one Tory to vote against the government and then it could have been a very different story.
You should be thanking your lucky stars for Corbyn."
I've said all along Corbyn is a Brexiteer at heart. I said it on here during the referendum campaign last year before the referendum vote on June 23rd. His Euroscepticism is obvious if you look at the history of his career in politics. Corbyn has played a blinder, I still think he secretly wants Brexit in his heart and is a Brexit mole in the Labour party. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"It was about 83% for, 17% against. A resounding parliamentary majority.
Just waiting for certain remainers on here to point out that it's only 500 people voted for it; what about the other 67,999,400 people in the country? "
I remember being on the wrong side of the Iraq war debate and being told that it was obvious we had to sort out Saddam and that you had to be stupid not to see that.
As for the Brexit vote today, I feel like I did at the time of the Iraq war vote. Politicians are simply humanoid opinion polls. Every single amendment was voted down including the commitment to spend £350 million a week on the NHS.
So be it. The country deserves what is coming albeit we deserve politicians who are able to make an argument, stand their ground and make difficult decisions that are based on considered opinion rather than keeping their job amongst an increasingly dumbed down society.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"The final vote on the Brexit bill has now been passed in The House of Commons. The Brexit bill has flown through The Commons unamended and the third reading of the bill had almost 500 MP's voting in favour of it, just a little over 100 MP's voted against. A great day for democracy and it's good to see the House of Commons respect the result of the referendum and carry out the Instruction given to them by the British public.
Yet you didn't even want them to have a vote on it!
Let's be honest it has all been a bit pointless, you may aswel have given Teresa May permission to use Royal Perogative, would've been the same result. I said on here at the time of the Supreme court ruling it was irrelevant because Parliament would still vote in favour of it with a good majority anyway.
All it has done is to divide the Labour party even more than it was before and to undermine Corbyn's authority more, lol.
Yet you were dead set against parliament voting on it, dead set against the High Court ruling on it, and dead set against the Supreme Court ruling on it.
You can laugh all you want at Corbyn, but really you should be kissing his feet. No other Labour leader for a generation would have three line whipped their party to vote for Brexit, in fact they might have three line whipped them to vote the other way for it. Had that happened it would have given cover for more than one Tory to vote against the government and then it could have been a very different story.
You should be thanking your lucky stars for Corbyn.
I've said all along Corbyn is a Brexiteer at heart. I said it on here during the referendum campaign last year before the referendum vote on June 23rd. His Euroscepticism is obvious if you look at the history of his career in politics. Corbyn has played a blinder, I still think he secretly wants Brexit in his heart and is a Brexit mole in the Labour party. "
A Brexit mole? More like a fucking Tory mole. Corbyn has one mission and that is to smash the Labour party right into the ground. If we had a US style election system where we voted directly for a PM and the two candidates were Corbyn and Jimmy Savile, our new PM would be meeting world leaders in gold chains, track suits and smoking a cigar. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
It is strange how so many either don't know how our parliamentary system works. The Article 50 bill has not passed through parliament, and it is not inevitable it will.
The Article 50 bill has passed through the House of Commons. It still has to pass through the House of Lords and then receive the Royal Accent.
I accept that it is unlikely that the Lords will seriously delay the bill. But being as it is an unelected chamber and therefore its members do not have to answer to anyone but their consciousness the bill may still be slowed or gutted. Further the Monarch may refuse the Royal Accent. Again this is even more unlikely than the Lords holding up the legislation but may happen.
So please people lets wait till the bill is law before saying its through parliament. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
I have to concede the PLP were right.
I thought they were wrong not to give him a chance. I thought, and still do think that he is a decent moral man of mostly admirable principles.
But my god he is a dangerously incompetent leader, whose priorities are ridiculous. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"It is strange how so many either don't know how our parliamentary system works. The Article 50 bill has not passed through parliament, and it is not inevitable it will.
The Article 50 bill has passed through the House of Commons. It still has to pass through the House of Lords and then receive the Royal Accent.
I accept that it is unlikely that the Lords will seriously delay the bill. But being as it is an unelected chamber and therefore its members do not have to answer to anyone but their consciousness the bill may still be slowed or gutted. Further the Monarch may refuse the Royal Accent. Again this is even more unlikely than the Lords holding up the legislation but may happen.
So please people lets wait till the bill is law before saying its through parliament. "
Keep clutching at those straws. It would be political suicide for the Lords to block this bill, and would almost certainly lead to the abolition of the House of Lords if they block it. The country voted to leave in a referendum and now The House of Commons have voted with a thumping majority for this Bill, do the unelected Lords really want to go against the will of the people and a big majority in the Commons? It's a fight they cannot win. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
Not clutching at anything, I am sure the bill will pass into law, and Ms May will trigger Article 50. Just I would rather that you and the other brexiteers wait until it is actually completes its passage through parliament before you claim it has.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
Is it a bad thing that government answers to Parliament? Yes/No
Is it a bad thing that a private citizen is able to question if their government is acting legally? Yes/No
Is it a bad thing that government has to follow the rule of law? Yes/No
Is 8 significantly bigger than 3 (73% to 23%)? Yes/No
I know some people don't like answering direct questions, but it's instructive when they refuse to  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I wonder how popular this government will be in two years time?
Apparently Article 50 isn't irreversible. "
Depends which bit of "news" you read on that.
Donald Tusk actually stated that it IS irreversible during the ore bite debate. I think he, of all people, should know that? Unless it was another if the fibs on both sides? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The final vote on the Brexit bill has now been passed in The House of Commons. The Brexit bill has flown through The Commons unamended and the third reading of the bill had almost 500 MP's voting in favour of it, just a little over 100 MP's voted against. A great day for democracy and it's good to see the House of Commons respect the result of the referendum and carry out the Instruction given to them by the British public.
Yet you didn't even want them to have a vote on it!
Let's be honest it has all been a bit pointless, you may aswel have given Teresa May permission to use Royal Perogative, would've been the same result. I said on here at the time of the Supreme court ruling it was irrelevant because Parliament would still vote in favour of it with a good majority anyway.
All it has done is to divide the Labour party even more than it was before and to undermine Corbyn's authority more, lol. "
Let's chuck this one into the conspiracy theory pot. The government wanted to push it through without a parliamentary vote so that Corbyn would NOT be damaged. Nothing to do with law, rules or anything else.
They WANT him to remain in post so that they will landslide the next election and witness the total destruction of the Labour Party?
Maybe he is a Tory mole...if so he has been a long term "sleeper". Some say Scargill was a Tory mole, Derek Hatton certainly was! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *obka3Couple
over a year ago
bournemouth |
"Not clutching at anything, I am sure the bill will pass into law, and Ms May will trigger Article 50. Just I would rather that you and the other brexiteers wait until it is actually completes its passage through parliament before you claim it has.
"
But you often claim brexit is a disaster already ??????? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *obka3Couple
over a year ago
bournemouth |
"The final vote on the Brexit bill has now been passed in The House of Commons. The Brexit bill has flown through The Commons unamended and the third reading of the bill had almost 500 MP's voting in favour of it, just a little over 100 MP's voted against. A great day for democracy and it's good to see the House of Commons respect the result of the referendum and carry out the Instruction given to them by the British public.
Yet you didn't even want them to have a vote on it!
Let's be honest it has all been a bit pointless, you may aswel have given Teresa May permission to use Royal Perogative, would've been the same result. I said on here at the time of the Supreme court ruling it was irrelevant because Parliament would still vote in favour of it with a good majority anyway.
All it has done is to divide the Labour party even more than it was before and to undermine Corbyn's authority more, lol.
Let's chuck this one into the conspiracy theory pot. The government wanted to push it through without a parliamentary vote so that Corbyn would NOT be damaged. Nothing to do with law, rules or anything else.
They WANT him to remain in post so that they will landslide the next election and witness the total destruction of the Labour Party?
Maybe he is a Tory mole...if so he has been a long term "sleeper". Some say Scargill was a Tory mole, Derek Hatton certainly was!"
The government must be laughing at the people who brought the case to court, the judges made it clear that the SNP cant stop art 50 being trigged through the courts with any case they attempt delaying the date TM could trigger A50, had the government won the case then it may well have been taken to the european court further delaying A50, the judges decision avoided the government appearing to fight the devolved parliaments over their powers, I would loved to have heard NS views on how she had been out thought |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"But you often claim brexit is a disaster already ???????"
No I don't, in fact I am very careful not to claim brexit is anything.
I continually point out that we are still in the EU and have not even triggered article 50. I continually point out that the £ has lost some 20% of its value against the $ since the referendum. I continually point out that once article 50 is triggered the reality is we have no say in the deal the EU offers us. I also continually point out that the EU leaders keep telling up we will not get to cherry pick what we want and regardless of what those who believe we are in a strong position I believe we are in an incredibly weak position. And I continually ask those in favour of brexit why they are so unwilling to even acknowledge that they may be wrong.
I know I may be wrong, I know if I am wrong I have nothing but pleasant surprises waiting for me. If those who support brexit are wrong at what point will you admit that you were lied to and start wanting to get some payback from Nige, Boris, Gove, Reese Mog and co., or will you continue with your 'I don't want to hear that!' attitude as our economy collapses and blame it all on the 33% who voted remain and the 30% who did not vote? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"But you often claim brexit is a disaster already ???????
No I don't, in fact I am very careful not to claim brexit is anything.
I continually point out that we are still in the EU and have not even triggered article 50. I continually point out that the £ has lost some 20% of its value against the $ since the referendum. I continually point out that once article 50 is triggered the reality is we have no say in the deal the EU offers us. I also continually point out that the EU leaders keep telling up we will not get to cherry pick what we want and regardless of what those who believe we are in a strong position I believe we are in an incredibly weak position. And I continually ask those in favour of brexit why they are so unwilling to even acknowledge that they may be wrong.
I know I may be wrong, I know if I am wrong I have nothing but pleasant surprises waiting for me. If those who support brexit are wrong at what point will you admit that you were lied to and start wanting to get some payback from Nige, Boris, Gove, Reese Mog and co., or will you continue with your 'I don't want to hear that!' attitude as our economy collapses and blame it all on the 33% who voted remain and the 30% who did not vote? "
Even if there is a negative price to pay for leaving the EU (I don't think there will be) it will still be worth it in my opinion. The EU is heading towards a federal European superstate (a united states of Europe), and personally I think any price is worth paying to avoid being involved with that because it will be a catastrophe. The EU is already crumbling and coming apart at the seams as we speak. The sooner we are out the better as far as I'm concerned. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *oyce69Man
over a year ago
Driffield |
"But you often claim brexit is a disaster already ???????
No I don't, in fact I am very careful not to claim brexit is anything.
I continually point out that we are still in the EU and have not even triggered article 50. I continually point out that the £ has lost some 20% of its value against the $ since the referendum. I continually point out that once article 50 is triggered the reality is we have no say in the deal the EU offers us. I also continually point out that the EU leaders keep telling up we will not get to cherry pick what we want and regardless of what those who believe we are in a strong position I believe we are in an incredibly weak position. And I continually ask those in favour of brexit why they are so unwilling to even acknowledge that they may be wrong.
I know I may be wrong, I know if I am wrong I have nothing but pleasant surprises waiting for me. If those who support brexit are wrong at what point will you admit that you were lied to and start wanting to get some payback from Nige, Boris, Gove, Reese Mog and co., or will you continue with your 'I don't want to hear that!' attitude as our economy collapses and blame it all on the 33% who voted remain and the 30% who did not vote?
Even if there is a negative price to pay for leaving the EU (I don't think there will be) it will still be worth it in my opinion. The EU is heading towards a federal European superstate (a united states of Europe), and personally I think any price is worth paying to avoid being involved with that because it will be a catastrophe. The EU is already crumbling and coming apart at the seams as we speak. The sooner we are out the better as far as I'm concerned. "
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
Who, on this site or politician has said that they are trying to stop the UK exiting the EU as specified in the referendum?
Let's take an extreme example of a bill and why you might oppose its introduction even though you would pass its intention. It's fundamental to how our Parliament and democracy functions.
Bill: All paedophiles should be arrested and imprisoned
Option A: All paedophiles should be arrested and imprisoned without trial or appeal
Option B:All paedophiles should be arrested and imprisoned following a court trial
Parliament is there to question government as to how the bill will be implemented and introduce amendments to guarantee that it will be achieved appropriately.
If government does not respond in a satisfactory manner then it is completely appropriate to vote against the bill and continue to do so until it is presented in an acceptable way.
Is that not reasonable?
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Even if there is a negative price to pay for leaving the EU (I don't think there will be) it will still be worth it in my opinion. The EU is heading towards a federal European superstate (a united states of Europe), and personally I think any price is worth paying to avoid being involved with that because it will be a catastrophe. The EU is already crumbling and coming apart at the seams as we speak. The sooner we are out the better as far as I'm concerned. "
For once I like your post Centaur. I think it is the most honest you have been up till now. I do not agree with your position but I understand it.
I think you are correct about where the EU is going, a USE is the logical final destination for the EU. I also agree that the EU is in grave danger from Nationalism at present, however your assertion that Nationalism is the way forward I would suggest is misguided and makes our world a much more dangerous place. To make my point i would ask you to name one time in history where the breakup of a political or economic union has proven beneficial, I think you will find it hard to find a single example in history, I would further suggest that when examined dispassionately all that reductions in size do is foster extremism and conflict. The only people to benefit from such reductions are those who hold extreme political and xenophobic view. Of course such people are always willing to sacrifice anything to advance their cause and do so cheerfully.
Thank you for being so honest about who and what you are Centaur. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *obka3Couple
over a year ago
bournemouth |
"Even if there is a negative price to pay for leaving the EU (I don't think there will be) it will still be worth it in my opinion. The EU is heading towards a federal European superstate (a united states of Europe), and personally I think any price is worth paying to avoid being involved with that because it will be a catastrophe. The EU is already crumbling and coming apart at the seams as we speak. The sooner we are out the better as far as I'm concerned.
For once I like your post Centaur. I think it is the most honest you have been up till now. I do not agree with your position but I understand it.
I think you are correct about where the EU is going, a USE is the logical final destination for the EU. I also agree that the EU is in grave danger from Nationalism at present, however your assertion that Nationalism is the way forward I would suggest is misguided and makes our world a much more dangerous place. To make my point i would ask you to name one time in history where the breakup of a political or economic union has proven beneficial, I think you will find it hard to find a single example in history, I would further suggest that when examined dispassionately all that reductions in size do is foster extremism and conflict. The only people to benefit from such reductions are those who hold extreme political and xenophobic view. Of course such people are always willing to sacrifice anything to advance their cause and do so cheerfully.
Thank you for being so honest about who and what you are Centaur."
I have said several times the USE is why I voted out, I sincerely believe that it could and would never work we are just too different, maybe a union of the northern states might just but the 27 not a chance,I have also said that if it went back to the common market then I would vote for that too.
In response to your question look at the USSR far wealthier than they were as a single block ruled from the centre by an elite that feathered their own nest,sound familiar? Yes they now have Putin who is taking them in a bad direction and many have become billionaires at the expense of others but we can and must avoid that mistake by taking power away from the elite who have gained most under the EU way and are fighting hardest to stop it failing. I wonder how many of these russian billionaires were high up in the old soviet block power structures, Putin certainly was |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Amazing, post after post about brexit, facts and lies thrown about, personal abuse etc and now it's been passed you can almost see the tumbles....not a bad thing I suppose, now we can get back to talking about sex.
Lol, I think the Remainers are in shock. Think they thought it would never get passed. "
I never doubted for a moment that it would pass and said many times that I couldn't understand why BREXITers were so worried about it. They should have always supported getting the backing of Parliament as this now, unfortunately from my point of view, makes BREXIT an absolute and uncontestably legal certainty.
Now if BREXITers stop trying to get BREXIT as quickly as possibly and instead concentrate on getting a good, legally secure BREXIT that addresses the real problems and difficulties BREXIT could produce then we might actually start moving forward.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *imiUKMan
over a year ago
Hereford |
"The final vote on the Brexit bill has now been passed in The House of Commons. The Brexit bill has flown through The Commons unamended and the third reading of the bill had almost 500 MP's voting in favour of it, just a little over 100 MP's voted against. A great day for democracy and it's good to see the House of Commons respect the result of the referendum and carry out the Instruction given to them by the British public.
Yet you didn't even want them to have a vote on it!
Let's be honest it has all been a bit pointless, you may aswel have given Teresa May permission to use Royal Perogative, would've been the same result. I said on here at the time of the Supreme court ruling it was irrelevant because Parliament would still vote in favour of it with a good majority anyway.
All it has done is to divide the Labour party even more than it was before and to undermine Corbyn's authority more, lol.
Yet you were dead set against parliament voting on it, dead set against the High Court ruling on it, and dead set against the Supreme Court ruling on it.
You can laugh all you want at Corbyn, but really you should be kissing his feet. No other Labour leader for a generation would have three line whipped their party to vote for Brexit, in fact they might have three line whipped them to vote the other way for it. Had that happened it would have given cover for more than one Tory to vote against the government and then it could have been a very different story.
You should be thanking your lucky stars for Corbyn.
I've said all along Corbyn is a Brexiteer at heart. I said it on here during the referendum campaign last year before the referendum vote on June 23rd. His Euroscepticism is obvious if you look at the history of his career in politics. Corbyn has played a blinder, I still think he secretly wants Brexit in his heart and is a Brexit mole in the Labour party. "
I think that Corbyn is as ambivolent on BREXIT as I was - I'm not sure that the machinations of European capitalist federalism are really an issue for the left. I'm with Tony Benn, ideologically speaking on the EU.
Corbyn knows, however, that the majority of working class labour voters are pro brexit, and nobody can say that Corbyn isn't pro-democracy, ergo the three-line whip.
It's funny how the labour party has apparently been destroyed by Corbyn, and yet they have the fastest growing membership of any party in the UK. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"It is strange how so many either don't know how our parliamentary system works. The Article 50 bill has not passed through parliament, and it is not inevitable it will.
The Article 50 bill has passed through the House of Commons. It still has to pass through the House of Lords and then receive the Royal Accent.
I accept that it is unlikely that the Lords will seriously delay the bill. But being as it is an unelected chamber and therefore its members do not have to answer to anyone but their consciousness the bill may still be slowed or gutted. Further the Monarch may refuse the Royal Accent. Again this is even more unlikely than the Lords holding up the legislation but may happen.
So please people lets wait till the bill is law before saying its through parliament. "
I think it's extremely unlikely that the Lords will not pass the bill. They may add an amendment or two but don't hold your breath on it. As for the Queen not giving Royal Accent; that's just never going to happen.
I'm afraid to say that, for all intent, the bill is passed and the only real chance of either blocking (which I never believed would happen) or seriously amending it has gone.
I think if Labour had gone along the line of only voting the bill through if some of the amendments tabled had been passed then it's possible they may have encouraged some Conservative rebels to vote against to but, whether because they lacked the backbone or Corbyn is actually a BREXITer, It's too late now. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"The final vote on the Brexit bill has now been passed in The House of Commons. The Brexit bill has flown through The Commons unamended and the third reading of the bill had almost 500 MP's voting in favour of it, just a little over 100 MP's voted against. A great day for democracy and it's good to see the House of Commons respect the result of the referendum and carry out the Instruction given to them by the British public.
Yet you didn't even want them to have a vote on it!
Let's be honest it has all been a bit pointless, you may aswel have given Teresa May permission to use Royal Perogative, would've been the same result. I said on here at the time of the Supreme court ruling it was irrelevant because Parliament would still vote in favour of it with a good majority anyway.
All it has done is to divide the Labour party even more than it was before and to undermine Corbyn's authority more, lol.
Yet you were dead set against parliament voting on it, dead set against the High Court ruling on it, and dead set against the Supreme Court ruling on it.
You can laugh all you want at Corbyn, but really you should be kissing his feet. No other Labour leader for a generation would have three line whipped their party to vote for Brexit, in fact they might have three line whipped them to vote the other way for it. Had that happened it would have given cover for more than one Tory to vote against the government and then it could have been a very different story.
You should be thanking your lucky stars for Corbyn.
I've said all along Corbyn is a Brexiteer at heart. I said it on here during the referendum campaign last year before the referendum vote on June 23rd. His Euroscepticism is obvious if you look at the history of his career in politics. Corbyn has played a blinder, I still think he secretly wants Brexit in his heart and is a Brexit mole in the Labour party.
I think that Corbyn is as ambivolent on BREXIT as I was - I'm not sure that the machinations of European capitalist federalism are really an issue for the left. I'm with Tony Benn, ideologically speaking on the EU.
Corbyn knows, however, that the majority of working class labour voters are pro brexit, and nobody can say that Corbyn isn't pro-democracy, ergo the three-line whip.
It's funny how the labour party has apparently been destroyed by Corbyn, and yet they have the fastest growing membership of any party in the UK. "
And, as quickly as the membership grows, It's percentage of the vote, according to the poles, drops |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *imiUKMan
over a year ago
Hereford |
"The final vote on the Brexit bill has now been passed in The House of Commons. The Brexit bill has flown through The Commons unamended and the third reading of the bill had almost 500 MP's voting in favour of it, just a little over 100 MP's voted against. A great day for democracy and it's good to see the House of Commons respect the result of the referendum and carry out the Instruction given to them by the British public.
Yet you didn't even want them to have a vote on it!
Let's be honest it has all been a bit pointless, you may aswel have given Teresa May permission to use Royal Perogative, would've been the same result. I said on here at the time of the Supreme court ruling it was irrelevant because Parliament would still vote in favour of it with a good majority anyway.
All it has done is to divide the Labour party even more than it was before and to undermine Corbyn's authority more, lol.
Yet you were dead set against parliament voting on it, dead set against the High Court ruling on it, and dead set against the Supreme Court ruling on it.
You can laugh all you want at Corbyn, but really you should be kissing his feet. No other Labour leader for a generation would have three line whipped their party to vote for Brexit, in fact they might have three line whipped them to vote the other way for it. Had that happened it would have given cover for more than one Tory to vote against the government and then it could have been a very different story.
You should be thanking your lucky stars for Corbyn.
I've said all along Corbyn is a Brexiteer at heart. I said it on here during the referendum campaign last year before the referendum vote on June 23rd. His Euroscepticism is obvious if you look at the history of his career in politics. Corbyn has played a blinder, I still think he secretly wants Brexit in his heart and is a Brexit mole in the Labour party.
I think that Corbyn is as ambivolent on BREXIT as I was - I'm not sure that the machinations of European capitalist federalism are really an issue for the left. I'm with Tony Benn, ideologically speaking on the EU.
Corbyn knows, however, that the majority of working class labour voters are pro brexit, and nobody can say that Corbyn isn't pro-democracy, ergo the three-line whip.
It's funny how the labour party has apparently been destroyed by Corbyn, and yet they have the fastest growing membership of any party in the UK.
And, as quickly as the membership grows, It's percentage of the vote, according to the poles, drops "
If the polls failed to predict BREXIT, and Trump..... How much store are we putting in polls nowadays? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *aucy3Couple
over a year ago
glasgow |
"The final vote on the Brexit bill has now been passed in The House of Commons. The Brexit bill has flown through The Commons unamended and the third reading of the bill had almost 500 MP's voting in favour of it, just a little over 100 MP's voted against. A great day for democracy and it's good to see the House of Commons respect the result of the referendum and carry out the Instruction given to them by the British public.
Yet you didn't even want them to have a vote on it!
Let's be honest it has all been a bit pointless, you may aswel have given Teresa May permission to use Royal Perogative, would've been the same result. I said on here at the time of the Supreme court ruling it was irrelevant because Parliament would still vote in favour of it with a good majority anyway.
All it has done is to divide the Labour party even more than it was before and to undermine Corbyn's authority more, lol.
Yet you were dead set against parliament voting on it, dead set against the High Court ruling on it, and dead set against the Supreme Court ruling on it.
You can laugh all you want at Corbyn, but really you should be kissing his feet. No other Labour leader for a generation would have three line whipped their party to vote for Brexit, in fact they might have three line whipped them to vote the other way for it. Had that happened it would have given cover for more than one Tory to vote against the government and then it could have been a very different story.
You should be thanking your lucky stars for Corbyn.
I've said all along Corbyn is a Brexiteer at heart. I said it on here during the referendum campaign last year before the referendum vote on June 23rd. His Euroscepticism is obvious if you look at the history of his career in politics. Corbyn has played a blinder, I still think he secretly wants Brexit in his heart and is a Brexit mole in the Labour party.
I think that Corbyn is as ambivolent on BREXIT as I was - I'm not sure that the machinations of European capitalist federalism are really an issue for the left. I'm with Tony Benn, ideologically speaking on the EU.
Corbyn knows, however, that the majority of working class labour voters are pro brexit, and nobody can say that Corbyn isn't pro-democracy, ergo the three-line whip.
It's funny how the labour party has apparently been destroyed by Corbyn, and yet they have the fastest growing membership of any party in the UK. "
And losing voters even faster.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *imiUKMan
over a year ago
Hereford |
"The final vote on the Brexit bill has now been passed in The House of Commons. The Brexit bill has flown through The Commons unamended and the third reading of the bill had almost 500 MP's voting in favour of it, just a little over 100 MP's voted against. A great day for democracy and it's good to see the House of Commons respect the result of the referendum and carry out the Instruction given to them by the British public.
Yet you didn't even want them to have a vote on it!
Let's be honest it has all been a bit pointless, you may aswel have given Teresa May permission to use Royal Perogative, would've been the same result. I said on here at the time of the Supreme court ruling it was irrelevant because Parliament would still vote in favour of it with a good majority anyway.
All it has done is to divide the Labour party even more than it was before and to undermine Corbyn's authority more, lol.
Yet you were dead set against parliament voting on it, dead set against the High Court ruling on it, and dead set against the Supreme Court ruling on it.
You can laugh all you want at Corbyn, but really you should be kissing his feet. No other Labour leader for a generation would have three line whipped their party to vote for Brexit, in fact they might have three line whipped them to vote the other way for it. Had that happened it would have given cover for more than one Tory to vote against the government and then it could have been a very different story.
You should be thanking your lucky stars for Corbyn.
I've said all along Corbyn is a Brexiteer at heart. I said it on here during the referendum campaign last year before the referendum vote on June 23rd. His Euroscepticism is obvious if you look at the history of his career in politics. Corbyn has played a blinder, I still think he secretly wants Brexit in his heart and is a Brexit mole in the Labour party.
I think that Corbyn is as ambivolent on BREXIT as I was - I'm not sure that the machinations of European capitalist federalism are really an issue for the left. I'm with Tony Benn, ideologically speaking on the EU.
Corbyn knows, however, that the majority of working class labour voters are pro brexit, and nobody can say that Corbyn isn't pro-democracy, ergo the three-line whip.
It's funny how the labour party has apparently been destroyed by Corbyn, and yet they have the fastest growing membership of any party in the UK.
And losing voters even faster.
"
And gaining other voters, apparently.
I'm not a massive fan of the Labour Party, but the mad scramble to smear Corbyn, either with things that may have happened or things that didn't actually happen does prove to me that the establisment is really worried about him. The juxtaposition between this and what they are saying about him is almost amusing. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Amazing, post after post about brexit, facts and lies thrown about, personal abuse etc and now it's been passed you can almost see the tumbles....not a bad thing I suppose, now we can get back to talking about sex.
Lol, I think the Remainers are in shock. Think they thought it would never get passed.
On the contrary; there was never a doubt that it would be passed.
It is excellent news that the government has had to behave legally;
It is sad that they had to be taught how the constitution works;
It is good that they have been made to debate the most important issue facing the UK for over 50 years, even though it was rushed.
It is great that they will now have to do the right thing, and explain what they are doing, instead of doing deals in secret.
It is good that the debate exposed a number of other elements, which the government would have " buried" such as the issue of Euratom.
It is good that there will now be questioning of government actions, and ( almost) proper scrutiny of what they do.
It has exposed the fact that the government still has no idea what it is going to do, and has no plan whatsoever.
And that the various departments charged with achieving BREXIT, are in utter chaos."
Can I ask you why would Brexit matter ? In approx. 4 weeks 15th March Holland goes to the polls and it seems that Mr Wilders will be sitting there with his PPV party with 25-28% of the votes. The other major parties will lose out and will not be able to put a government together...So we have a "Belgium" situation a "care taker" PM
In approx. 2 1/2 months France goes to the polls the middle and lower classes of France are sick of the liberal political establishment and will either not vote or vote for the Front National / Mrs Marine. In the 2nd round the middle right voters will not vote for the left candidate and thus Mrs Marine (Le Pen) will be sitting there with her threat to remove France from the EU.
Let us all not forget that per end of July Greece has to repay to the IMF approx Euro 11 billion. With what ? Empty coffers - so this time Greece as Germany will not support anymore payments (election year) will drop out of the Euro - a little domino in a big game.
But this sets off the domino of Italy with 52% of 18-35 out of work who are becoming more and more far right and listening to Signore Grillo of the 5 star movement. He wants Italy out of the Euro end of immigration (Italy has till now accepted 450'000 immigrants), taxation of all foreign companies, state programs to rid the unemployment
And you are going on about Brexit... in 24 months there is no EU as it is...the Eastern countries give a shit what Brussels says (See Hungary) and do not fulfill the guide lines set by Brussels in human rights, spending or other areas...
So - maybe in 24 months there is no Brexit as there is no EU left...has anyone thought of that? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *aucy3Couple
over a year ago
glasgow |
"The final vote on the Brexit bill has now been passed in The House of Commons. The Brexit bill has flown through The Commons unamended and the third reading of the bill had almost 500 MP's voting in favour of it, just a little over 100 MP's voted against. A great day for democracy and it's good to see the House of Commons respect the result of the referendum and carry out the Instruction given to them by the British public.
Yet you didn't even want them to have a vote on it!
Let's be honest it has all been a bit pointless, you may aswel have given Teresa May permission to use Royal Perogative, would've been the same result. I said on here at the time of the Supreme court ruling it was irrelevant because Parliament would still vote in favour of it with a good majority anyway.
All it has done is to divide the Labour party even more than it was before and to undermine Corbyn's authority more, lol.
Yet you were dead set against parliament voting on it, dead set against the High Court ruling on it, and dead set against the Supreme Court ruling on it.
You can laugh all you want at Corbyn, but really you should be kissing his feet. No other Labour leader for a generation would have three line whipped their party to vote for Brexit, in fact they might have three line whipped them to vote the other way for it. Had that happened it would have given cover for more than one Tory to vote against the government and then it could have been a very different story.
You should be thanking your lucky stars for Corbyn.
I've said all along Corbyn is a Brexiteer at heart. I said it on here during the referendum campaign last year before the referendum vote on June 23rd. His Euroscepticism is obvious if you look at the history of his career in politics. Corbyn has played a blinder, I still think he secretly wants Brexit in his heart and is a Brexit mole in the Labour party.
I think that Corbyn is as ambivolent on BREXIT as I was - I'm not sure that the machinations of European capitalist federalism are really an issue for the left. I'm with Tony Benn, ideologically speaking on the EU.
Corbyn knows, however, that the majority of working class labour voters are pro brexit, and nobody can say that Corbyn isn't pro-democracy, ergo the three-line whip.
It's funny how the labour party has apparently been destroyed by Corbyn, and yet they have the fastest growing membership of any party in the UK.
And losing voters even faster.
And gaining other voters, apparently.
I'm not a massive fan of the Labour Party, but the mad scramble to smear Corbyn, either with things that may have happened or things that didn't actually happen does prove to me that the establisment is really worried about him. The juxtaposition between this and what they are saying about him is almost amusing. "
He's the conservatives fantasy opposition leader.
Even in their wildest dreams,
they could not have imagined,
A more unelectable leader of the opposition
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"The final vote on the Brexit bill has now been passed in The House of Commons. The Brexit bill has flown through The Commons unamended and the third reading of the bill had almost 500 MP's voting in favour of it, just a little over 100 MP's voted against. A great day for democracy and it's good to see the House of Commons respect the result of the referendum and carry out the Instruction given to them by the British public.
Yet you didn't even want them to have a vote on it!
Let's be honest it has all been a bit pointless, you may aswel have given Teresa May permission to use Royal Perogative, would've been the same result. I said on here at the time of the Supreme court ruling it was irrelevant because Parliament would still vote in favour of it with a good majority anyway.
All it has done is to divide the Labour party even more than it was before and to undermine Corbyn's authority more, lol.
Yet you were dead set against parliament voting on it, dead set against the High Court ruling on it, and dead set against the Supreme Court ruling on it.
You can laugh all you want at Corbyn, but really you should be kissing his feet. No other Labour leader for a generation would have three line whipped their party to vote for Brexit, in fact they might have three line whipped them to vote the other way for it. Had that happened it would have given cover for more than one Tory to vote against the government and then it could have been a very different story.
You should be thanking your lucky stars for Corbyn.
I've said all along Corbyn is a Brexiteer at heart. I said it on here during the referendum campaign last year before the referendum vote on June 23rd. His Euroscepticism is obvious if you look at the history of his career in politics. Corbyn has played a blinder, I still think he secretly wants Brexit in his heart and is a Brexit mole in the Labour party.
I think that Corbyn is as ambivolent on BREXIT as I was - I'm not sure that the machinations of European capitalist federalism are really an issue for the left. I'm with Tony Benn, ideologically speaking on the EU.
Corbyn knows, however, that the majority of working class labour voters are pro brexit, and nobody can say that Corbyn isn't pro-democracy, ergo the three-line whip.
It's funny how the labour party has apparently been destroyed by Corbyn, and yet they have the fastest growing membership of any party in the UK.
And losing voters even faster.
And gaining other voters, apparently.
I'm not a massive fan of the Labour Party, but the mad scramble to smear Corbyn, either with things that may have happened or things that didn't actually happen does prove to me that the establisment is really worried about him. The juxtaposition between this and what they are saying about him is almost amusing.
He's the conservatives fantasy opposition leader.
Even in their wildest dreams,
they could not have imagined,
A more unelectable leader of the opposition
"
It's true, some people ridiculously claim that the Tories are scared of him, hardly, they are pissing themselves laughing. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Amazing, post after post about brexit, facts and lies thrown about, personal abuse etc and now it's been passed you can almost see the tumbles....not a bad thing I suppose, now we can get back to talking about sex.
Lol, I think the Remainers are in shock. Think they thought it would never get passed.
On the contrary; there was never a doubt that it would be passed.
It is excellent news that the government has had to behave legally;
It is sad that they had to be taught how the constitution works;
It is good that they have been made to debate the most important issue facing the UK for over 50 years, even though it was rushed.
It is great that they will now have to do the right thing, and explain what they are doing, instead of doing deals in secret.
It is good that the debate exposed a number of other elements, which the government would have " buried" such as the issue of Euratom.
It is good that there will now be questioning of government actions, and ( almost) proper scrutiny of what they do.
It has exposed the fact that the government still has no idea what it is going to do, and has no plan whatsoever.
And that the various departments charged with achieving BREXIT, are in utter chaos.
Can I ask you why would Brexit matter ? In approx. 4 weeks 15th March Holland goes to the polls and it seems that Mr Wilders will be sitting there with his PPV party with 25-28% of the votes. The other major parties will lose out and will not be able to put a government together...So we have a "Belgium" situation a "care taker" PM
In approx. 2 1/2 months France goes to the polls the middle and lower classes of France are sick of the liberal political establishment and will either not vote or vote for the Front National / Mrs Marine. In the 2nd round the middle right voters will not vote for the left candidate and thus Mrs Marine (Le Pen) will be sitting there with her threat to remove France from the EU.
Let us all not forget that per end of July Greece has to repay to the IMF approx Euro 11 billion. With what ? Empty coffers - so this time Greece as Germany will not support anymore payments (election year) will drop out of the Euro - a little domino in a big game.
But this sets off the domino of Italy with 52% of 18-35 out of work who are becoming more and more far right and listening to Signore Grillo of the 5 star movement. He wants Italy out of the Euro end of immigration (Italy has till now accepted 450'000 immigrants), taxation of all foreign companies, state programs to rid the unemployment
And you are going on about Brexit... in 24 months there is no EU as it is...the Eastern countries give a shit what Brussels says (See Hungary) and do not fulfill the guide lines set by Brussels in human rights, spending or other areas...
So - maybe in 24 months there is no Brexit as there is no EU left...has anyone thought of that? "
yes you're right and it might not even take 24 months. The sad thing is people are still praising the EU and do not understand or accept the problems it has caused. Meanwhile those at the top stick their fingers in their ears because they know best obviously and carry on fiddling while Rome burns |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"The final vote on the Brexit bill has now been passed in The House of Commons. The Brexit bill has flown through The Commons unamended and the third reading of the bill had almost 500 MP's voting in favour of it, just a little over 100 MP's voted against. A great day for democracy and it's good to see the House of Commons respect the result of the referendum and carry out the Instruction given to them by the British public.
Yet you didn't even want them to have a vote on it!
Let's be honest it has all been a bit pointless, you may aswel have given Teresa May permission to use Royal Perogative, would've been the same result. I said on here at the time of the Supreme court ruling it was irrelevant because Parliament would still vote in favour of it with a good majority anyway.
All it has done is to divide the Labour party even more than it was before and to undermine Corbyn's authority more, lol.
Yet you were dead set against parliament voting on it, dead set against the High Court ruling on it, and dead set against the Supreme Court ruling on it.
You can laugh all you want at Corbyn, but really you should be kissing his feet. No other Labour leader for a generation would have three line whipped their party to vote for Brexit, in fact they might have three line whipped them to vote the other way for it. Had that happened it would have given cover for more than one Tory to vote against the government and then it could have been a very different story.
You should be thanking your lucky stars for Corbyn.
I've said all along Corbyn is a Brexiteer at heart. I said it on here during the referendum campaign last year before the referendum vote on June 23rd. His Euroscepticism is obvious if you look at the history of his career in politics. Corbyn has played a blinder, I still think he secretly wants Brexit in his heart and is a Brexit mole in the Labour party.
I think that Corbyn is as ambivolent on BREXIT as I was - I'm not sure that the machinations of European capitalist federalism are really an issue for the left. I'm with Tony Benn, ideologically speaking on the EU.
Corbyn knows, however, that the majority of working class labour voters are pro brexit, and nobody can say that Corbyn isn't pro-democracy, ergo the three-line whip.
It's funny how the labour party has apparently been destroyed by Corbyn, and yet they have the fastest growing membership of any party in the UK.
And, as quickly as the membership grows, It's percentage of the vote, according to the poles, drops "
I'm not sure the Labour party membership is growing anymore, I saw it mentioned on the news or one of the political programmes on telly that Labour had lost 7,000 members in the last week or two. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"The final vote on the Brexit bill has now been passed in The House of Commons. The Brexit bill has flown through The Commons unamended and the third reading of the bill had almost 500 MP's voting in favour of it, just a little over 100 MP's voted against. A great day for democracy and it's good to see the House of Commons respect the result of the referendum and carry out the Instruction given to them by the British public.
Yet you didn't even want them to have a vote on it!
Let's be honest it has all been a bit pointless, you may aswel have given Teresa May permission to use Royal Perogative, would've been the same result. I said on here at the time of the Supreme court ruling it was irrelevant because Parliament would still vote in favour of it with a good majority anyway.
All it has done is to divide the Labour party even more than it was before and to undermine Corbyn's authority more, lol.
Yet you were dead set against parliament voting on it, dead set against the High Court ruling on it, and dead set against the Supreme Court ruling on it.
You can laugh all you want at Corbyn, but really you should be kissing his feet. No other Labour leader for a generation would have three line whipped their party to vote for Brexit, in fact they might have three line whipped them to vote the other way for it. Had that happened it would have given cover for more than one Tory to vote against the government and then it could have been a very different story.
You should be thanking your lucky stars for Corbyn.
I've said all along Corbyn is a Brexiteer at heart. I said it on here during the referendum campaign last year before the referendum vote on June 23rd. His Euroscepticism is obvious if you look at the history of his career in politics. Corbyn has played a blinder, I still think he secretly wants Brexit in his heart and is a Brexit mole in the Labour party.
I think that Corbyn is as ambivolent on BREXIT as I was - I'm not sure that the machinations of European capitalist federalism are really an issue for the left. I'm with Tony Benn, ideologically speaking on the EU.
Corbyn knows, however, that the majority of working class labour voters are pro brexit, and nobody can say that Corbyn isn't pro-democracy, ergo the three-line whip.
It's funny how the labour party has apparently been destroyed by Corbyn, and yet they have the fastest growing membership of any party in the UK.
And, as quickly as the membership grows, It's percentage of the vote, according to the poles, drops
I'm not sure the Labour party membership is growing anymore, I saw it mentioned on the news or one of the political programmes on telly that Labour had lost 7,000 members in the last week or two. "
Don't believe the fallacy that all new members love Corbyn. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"
yes you're right and it might not even take 24 months. The sad thing is people are still praising the EU and do not understand or accept the problems it has caused. Meanwhile those at the top stick their fingers in their ears because they know best obviously and carry on fiddling while Rome burns"
If you're view is that Europe would be better of as a number of small states competing with each other and being used as geopolitical tools by Russia, the USA, China and probably India that's fine.
If you feel that we are a big enough market to not be pushed into being a low tax, low regulation economy by multinationals then fine.
If you feel that we are such a wealthy, important country that we can dictate our own course on our own in this environment just like in the "good old days" then again, fine.
The EU has major problems but they are significantly less than being alone in the world.
We will just have to wait and see but I do know that I am 20% poorer when I leave this country than I was before and everything that I buy will be 10-20% more expensive as company currency hedges run out. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
yes you're right and it might not even take 24 months. The sad thing is people are still praising the EU and do not understand or accept the problems it has caused. Meanwhile those at the top stick their fingers in their ears because they know best obviously and carry on fiddling while Rome burns
If you're view is that Europe would be better of as a number of small states competing with each other and being used as geopolitical tools by Russia, the USA, China and probably India that's fine.
If you feel that we are a big enough market to not be pushed into being a low tax, low regulation economy by multinationals then fine.
If you feel that we are such a wealthy, important country that we can dictate our own course on our own in this environment just like in the "good old days" then again, fine.
The EU has major problems but they are significantly less than being alone in the world.
We will just have to wait and see but I do know that I am 20% poorer when I leave this country than I was before and everything that I buy will be 10-20% more expensive as company currency hedges run out."
20% poorer where? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
yes you're right and it might not even take 24 months. The sad thing is people are still praising the EU and do not understand or accept the problems it has caused. Meanwhile those at the top stick their fingers in their ears because they know best obviously and carry on fiddling while Rome burns
If you're view is that Europe would be better of as a number of small states competing with each other and being used as geopolitical tools by Russia, the USA, China and probably India that's fine.
If you feel that we are a big enough market to not be pushed into being a low tax, low regulation economy by multinationals then fine.
If you feel that we are such a wealthy, important country that we can dictate our own course on our own in this environment just like in the "good old days" then again, fine.
The EU has major problems but they are significantly less than being alone in the world.
We will just have to wait and see but I do know that I am 20% poorer when I leave this country than I was before and everything that I buy will be 10-20% more expensive as company currency hedges run out."
actually this post and attitude sums up why the EU will fall. When you leave the country? Millions of Europeans can't afford to leave the house nevermind the country. Try telling them that being in a bloc is better for them. Try telling them that competition is bad. Or ask them if they give a fuck about geo politics. The EU has problems you say, well thats all we hear, so what are they and what are they doing to solve them? Nada |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *obka3Couple
over a year ago
bournemouth |
"
yes you're right and it might not even take 24 months. The sad thing is people are still praising the EU and do not understand or accept the problems it has caused. Meanwhile those at the top stick their fingers in their ears because they know best obviously and carry on fiddling while Rome burns
If you're view is that Europe would be better of as a number of small states competing with each other and being used as geopolitical tools by Russia, the USA, China and probably India that's fine.
If you feel that we are a big enough market to not be pushed into being a low tax, low regulation economy by multinationals then fine.
If you feel that we are such a wealthy, important country that we can dictate our own course on our own in this environment just like in the "good old days" then again, fine.
The EU has major problems but they are significantly less than being alone in the world.
We will just have to wait and see but I do know that I am 20% poorer when I leave this country than I was before and everything that I buy will be 10-20% more expensive as company currency hedges run out."
The pound is 10% down against the euro andaround 17 against the dollar,the things you buy that are imported will be higher but by far less than any currency drop, but hey why let the truth get in the way isnt it called post trut by remainers now. We are the fifth largest economy in the world and are one of the five permanent members of the UN security council so I think we ight just squeeze by on our own,you do remember being told that the euro zone has the world's worst growth record, will everything be honey and roses I doubt it but it sure as hell wont be as bad as the doom mongers fear and I sincerely hope that those who have fared badly while we have been in the EU get a fairer deal |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"
actually this post and attitude sums up why the EU will fall. When you leave the country? Millions of Europeans can't afford to leave the house nevermind the country. Try telling them that being in a bloc is better for them. Try telling them that competition is bad. Or ask them if they give a fuck about geo politics. The EU has problems you say, well thats all we hear, so what are they and what are they doing to solve them? Nada"
Well they can, because they've come here, which you object to.
Everyone does care about geopolitics when it starts to effect them. Nobody cared about credit default swaps a few years ago.
It doesn't matter anymore what the EU does or does not do because they're leaving, unless of course it does collapse at which point...er...geopolitics may be a concern. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
actually this post and attitude sums up why the EU will fall. When you leave the country? Millions of Europeans can't afford to leave the house nevermind the country. Try telling them that being in a bloc is better for them. Try telling them that competition is bad. Or ask them if they give a fuck about geo politics. The EU has problems you say, well thats all we hear, so what are they and what are they doing to solve them? Nada
Well they can, because they've come here, which you object to.
Everyone does care about geopolitics when it starts to effect them. Nobody cared about credit default swaps a few years ago.
It doesn't matter anymore what the EU does or does not do because they're leaving, unless of course it does collapse at which point...er...geopolitics may be a concern."
I don't object to them coming here at all, its the system/manner in which they come I object to. So can you answer the questions, what is wrong with or what are the problems with the EU and what are they doing to resolve them? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
yes you're right and it might not even take 24 months. The sad thing is people are still praising the EU and do not understand or accept the problems it has caused. Meanwhile those at the top stick their fingers in their ears because they know best obviously and carry on fiddling while Rome burns
If you're view is that Europe would be better of as a number of small states competing with each other and being used as geopolitical tools by Russia, the USA, China and probably India that's fine.
If you feel that we are a big enough market to not be pushed into being a low tax, low regulation economy by multinationals then fine.
If you feel that we are such a wealthy, important country that we can dictate our own course on our own in this environment just like in the "good old days" then again, fine.
The EU has major problems but they are significantly less than being alone in the world.
We will just have to wait and see but I do know that I am 20% poorer when I leave this country than I was before and everything that I buy will be 10-20% more expensive as company currency hedges run out."
The EU has problems so why don't they do something about it then? If they fixed the "problems" the UK would not have voted to leave. Imo |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"
The pound is 10% down against the euro and around 17 against the dollar,the things you buy that are imported will be higher but by far less than any currency drop, but hey why let the truth get in the way isnt it called post trut by remainers now. We are the fifth largest economy in the world and are one of the five permanent members of the UN security council so I think we ight just squeeze by on our own,you do remember being told that the euro zone has the world's worst growth record, will everything be honey and roses I doubt it but it sure as hell wont be as bad as the doom mongers fear and I sincerely hope that those who have fared badly while we have been in the EU get a fairer deal "
Dollar pricing has a larger affect due to most commodities including oil and gas being priced this way.
That is why I quoted a range. This depends on how much of the increased cost that UK based companies can absorb. However, if we don't pay more, they earn less money which feeds into lower pay rises despite increased living expenses.
Growth is not all. The EU is a mature market. It has an incredibly high disposable income. There's a useful infographic on movehub.
Small changes in a poor country lead to huge improvements and fast growth. That doesn't mean that they have that much to spend. Much more is needed to achieve modest gains in mature economies. Every economy will slow. However, a small percentage of a big number can be more than a large percentage of a large number.
The EU is also currently our domestic market. The second biggest on the planet. We are about to give that up to be the 5th or 6th and believe that we can negotiate deals from just as strong a position? Regardless these will be external.
It may not be "that" bad, but that's hardly a ringing endorsement. How will any of this help those who have fared badly up to now. What will actually change to improve their lot? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
The pound is 10% down against the euro and around 17 against the dollar,the things you buy that are imported will be higher but by far less than any currency drop, but hey why let the truth get in the way isnt it called post trut by remainers now. We are the fifth largest economy in the world and are one of the five permanent members of the UN security council so I think we ight just squeeze by on our own,you do remember being told that the euro zone has the world's worst growth record, will everything be honey and roses I doubt it but it sure as hell wont be as bad as the doom mongers fear and I sincerely hope that those who have fared badly while we have been in the EU get a fairer deal
Dollar pricing has a larger affect due to most commodities including oil and gas being priced this way.
That is why I quoted a range. This depends on how much of the increased cost that UK based companies can absorb. However, if we don't pay more, they earn less money which feeds into lower pay rises despite increased living expenses.
Growth is not all. The EU is a mature market. It has an incredibly high disposable income. There's a useful infographic on movehub.
Small changes in a poor country lead to huge improvements and fast growth. That doesn't mean that they have that much to spend. Much more is needed to achieve modest gains in mature economies. Every economy will slow. However, a small percentage of a big number can be more than a large percentage of a large number.
The EU is also currently our domestic market. The second biggest on the planet. We are about to give that up to be the 5th or 6th and believe that we can negotiate deals from just as strong a position? Regardless these will be external.
It may not be "that" bad, but that's hardly a ringing endorsement. How will any of this help those who have fared badly up to now. What will actually change to improve their lot?"
Even the leader of the Britain stronger in Europe referendum campaign Stuart Rose admitted when he appeared before a commons select committee that Brit workers wages would rise if we leave the EU.
There was an interesting programme on BBC 2 at 9pm last Thursday night about the EU I think it was called Europe after Brexit or something like that. It showed how people in Italy and even France have become worse off as a result of EU policies and the introduction of the euro. Factories in Italy and France closing and moving production to Eastern European countries in the EU. There is a lot of resentment building up in the EU, it also looked at the problems in Greece and how the people there are living in poverty. Then it showed Angela Merkels right hand man in the German government saying how the EU had been great for Germany, well no shit sherlock but look at what is happening to the other countries in the EU it's not great for them is it. You go on about the currency devaluation of the pound but you had the ex EU commissioner from Germany Martin shultz on the programme saying how great the euro had been for Germany because it enabled Germany to devalue it's currency from the strong German Mark to the weak Euro. Devaluation has done wonders for the Germans economy. But even in Germany now resentment is building because the German people don't like bailing other countries out who have been destroyed by the Euro like Greece and if the Italian banks go pop and want bailing out you can forget it. AFD are making big gains and getting a lot of support in Germany. You think the EU has problems now they are going to have a whole lot more come the end of this year after the elections in France, Netherlands and Germany. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *obka3Couple
over a year ago
bournemouth |
"It never seems to work out too well for Europe when the far right come to power. I'm not quite sure why you are so keen on it. "
I dont think many want a return to the extreme right from the past but perhaps the PC pro euro fanatics need to realise that the disaffected always go to the far sides of politics if they feel left behind,the warning signs are there but the pro euro brigade have their heads in the sand and dismiss any anti eu feeling as racist/thick/old/nationlists, ask yourself what caused the rise of the far right in germany in the 30's |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"It never seems to work out too well for Europe when the far right come to power. I'm not quite sure why you are so keen on it.
I dont think many want a return to the extreme right from the past but perhaps the PC pro euro fanatics need to realise that the disaffected always go to the far sides of politics if they feel left behind,the warning signs are there but the pro euro brigade have their heads in the sand and dismiss any anti eu feeling as racist/thick/old/nationlists, ask yourself what caused the rise of the far right in germany in the 30's "
It's not just the far right as a far left government was elected in Greece. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *obka3Couple
over a year ago
bournemouth |
"It never seems to work out too well for Europe when the far right come to power. I'm not quite sure why you are so keen on it.
I dont think many want a return to the extreme right from the past but perhaps the PC pro euro fanatics need to realise that the disaffected always go to the far sides of politics if they feel left behind,the warning signs are there but the pro euro brigade have their heads in the sand and dismiss any anti eu feeling as racist/thick/old/nationlists, ask yourself what caused the rise of the far right in germany in the 30's
It's not just the far right as a far left government was elected in Greece. "
Thats why I said the far sides, both are as bad in my view,I dont think UKIP are far right, although some of their members are |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"The final vote on the Brexit bill has now been passed in The House of Commons. The Brexit bill has flown through The Commons unamended and the third reading of the bill had almost 500 MP's voting in favour of it, just a little over 100 MP's voted against. A great day for democracy and it's good to see the House of Commons respect the result of the referendum and carry out the Instruction given to them by the British public.
Yet you didn't even want them to have a vote on it!
Let's be honest it has all been a bit pointless, you may aswel have given Teresa May permission to use Royal Perogative, would've been the same result. I said on here at the time of the Supreme court ruling it was irrelevant because Parliament would still vote in favour of it with a good majority anyway.
All it has done is to divide the Labour party even more than it was before and to undermine Corbyn's authority more, lol.
Yet you were dead set against parliament voting on it, dead set against the High Court ruling on it, and dead set against the Supreme Court ruling on it.
You can laugh all you want at Corbyn, but really you should be kissing his feet. No other Labour leader for a generation would have three line whipped their party to vote for Brexit, in fact they might have three line whipped them to vote the other way for it. Had that happened it would have given cover for more than one Tory to vote against the government and then it could have been a very different story.
You should be thanking your lucky stars for Corbyn.
I've said all along Corbyn is a Brexiteer at heart. I said it on here during the referendum campaign last year before the referendum vote on June 23rd. His Euroscepticism is obvious if you look at the history of his career in politics. Corbyn has played a blinder, I still think he secretly wants Brexit in his heart and is a Brexit mole in the Labour party.
I think that Corbyn is as ambivolent on BREXIT as I was - I'm not sure that the machinations of European capitalist federalism are really an issue for the left. I'm with Tony Benn, ideologically speaking on the EU.
Corbyn knows, however, that the majority of working class labour voters are pro brexit, and nobody can say that Corbyn isn't pro-democracy, ergo the three-line whip.
It's funny how the labour party has apparently been destroyed by Corbyn, and yet they have the fastest growing membership of any party in the UK.
And, as quickly as the membership grows, It's percentage of the vote, according to the poles, drops
If the polls failed to predict BREXIT, and Trump..... How much store are we putting in polls nowadays?"
The polls generally have a 2% to 5% so, although both BREXIT and Trump were not predicted by the polls the polls did predict both as close and both Trump and BREXIT were within the margins of error. Labour with Corbyn is not even within a statistical possibility of winning and definitely no where near any margin of error. WAKE-UP and smell the coffee for god's sake before it's too late!! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"
I don't object to them coming here at all, its the system/manner in which they come I object to. So can you answer the questions, what is wrong with or what are the problems with the EU and what are they doing to resolve them?"
I'll just quote your words back to you again as it seems that you don't have to respond to questions but I do: "Maybe educate yourself and you wouldn't have to keep asking people here".
However, I will continue to try to answer as well as I can manage whilst you continue to avoid responding to anything that doesn't fit your opinion.
The EU expanded to include the Eastern European states as full members too early both economically and politically. However they faced a situation where they wanted to provide a benefit to moving away from communism and cut off the potential of totalitarian regimes arising as in parts of the former USSR.
What they could have done, and still could with some difficult discussion, is move money with immigration from the EU to net recipients. This would help cover the infrastructure spending which comes from a localised population shock. Schools, GP surgery etc.
Part of the free movement could specify a minimum language ability as poor communication breeds intolerance. However, checking this would add cost although I would assume this would also be required for any future immigration control system.
The EU has not actively demonstrated where and what it has contributed to the UK infrastructure and economy or explained how it functions as an organisation. That should be explained clearly. However, it's pretty clear that a large numbers of UK citizens don't know how our legislature functions either.
The migration of the European Parliament should be stopped as it is a conspicuous waste of money.
Waste in the bureaucracy (although no higher than national governments) should be conspicuously squeezed out.
The spending of EU grant money should be more tightly overseen to ensure that it is spent on economically useful expenditure rather than vanity projects although this is more bureaucracy and impinging on the right of sovereign governments to waste money as they see fit.
Add more if you can. Problems and solutions.
Could you contribute some potential drawbacks of Brexit and how they could be overcome? No straw men please. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"
The polls generally have a 2% to 5% so, although both BREXIT and Trump were not predicted by the polls the polls did predict both as close and both Trump and BREXIT were within the margins of error. Labour with Corbyn is not even within a statistical possibility of winning and definitely no where near any margin of error. WAKE-UP and smell the coffee for god's sake before it's too late!!"
The problem is having a dysfunctional opposition when the country is at such a critical turning point.
With the referendum margin so close there is no justification for a hard Brexit. Leave the EU for sure but do so in actual accord with the will of the people.
Any leavers actually have a sensible compromise or is it completely impossible to visualise anything other than hard Brexit? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *obka3Couple
over a year ago
bournemouth |
"
The polls generally have a 2% to 5% so, although both BREXIT and Trump were not predicted by the polls the polls did predict both as close and both Trump and BREXIT were within the margins of error. Labour with Corbyn is not even within a statistical possibility of winning and definitely no where near any margin of error. WAKE-UP and smell the coffee for god's sake before it's too late!!
The problem is having a dysfunctional opposition when the country is at such a critical turning point.
With the referendum margin so close there is no justification for a hard Brexit. Leave the EU for sure but do so in actual accord with the will of the people.
Any leavers actually have a sensible compromise or is it completely impossible to visualise anything other than hard Brexit?"
The EU wont accept us staying in the single market without free movement so there is very little option, had they been more flexible in the talks with DC then the result might have been different, they called the UK's bluff and they called wrong now the senario has to play out, unless of course they admit they were wrong and back down |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"
The EU wont accept us staying in the single market without free movement so there is very little option, had they been more flexible in the talks with DC then the result might have been different, they called the UK's bluff and they called wrong now the senario has to play out, unless of course they admit they were wrong and back down"
No then and it was of course the fault of the EU
You do understand the economic logic of free movement of labour don't you? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *obka3Couple
over a year ago
bournemouth |
"
The EU wont accept us staying in the single market without free movement so there is very little option, had they been more flexible in the talks with DC then the result might have been different, they called the UK's bluff and they called wrong now the senario has to play out, unless of course they admit they were wrong and back down
No then and it was of course the fault of the EU
You do understand the economic logic of free movement of labour don't you?"
Free movement no controlled movement yes, very different .
The only ones who will make life difficult might be the EU for purely political reasons,you do understand the economic logic of free trade in europe dont you. Then perhaps you could explain it to the EU |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"
Free movement no controlled movement yes, very different .
The only ones who will make life difficult might be the EU for purely political reasons,you do understand the economic logic of free trade in europe dont you. Then perhaps you could explain it to the EU"
So controlled movement of goods and capital too?
Again, the initial UK negotiating position is that we want everything that we have now but not pay for any of it. This would mean the UK having a better deal than EU member states. Is that feasible?
So where is the compromise? In the wording. Free movement of "labour". You can come without a visa but you have to have a job and I'd you lose it you have a limited period to stay, claiming benefit in the same way as a UK resident. Cost and bureaucracy but the same would be necessary for any immigration control. We pay a contribution to fund the bureaucracy required to run a free market and a bit more for headquarters EU departments and access research funding maybe?
A better start than is apparently possible under any circumstances because Johnny Foreigner is so very spiteful... |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *obka3Couple
over a year ago
bournemouth |
"
Free movement no controlled movement yes, very different .
The only ones who will make life difficult might be the EU for purely political reasons,you do understand the economic logic of free trade in europe dont you. Then perhaps you could explain it to the EU
So controlled movement of goods and capital too?
Again, the initial UK negotiating position is that we want everything that we have now but not pay for any of it. This would mean the UK having a better deal than EU member states. Is that feasible?
So where is the compromise? In the wording. Free movement of "labour". You can come without a visa but you have to have a job and I'd you lose it you have a limited period to stay, claiming benefit in the same way as a UK resident. Cost and bureaucracy but the same would be necessary for any immigration control. We pay a contribution to fund the bureaucracy required to run a free market and a bit more for headquarters EU departments and access research funding maybe?
A better start than is apparently possible under any circumstances because Johnny Foreigner is so very spiteful..."
So if free trade with controlled movement is a better deal than other members get you are saying that free movement isnt good and combined with all the costs then you are saying that the EU isnt such a good idea. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"
So if free trade with controlled movement is a better deal than other members get you are saying that free movement isnt good and combined with all the costs then you are saying that the EU isnt such a good idea. "
No. Bold interpretation though. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
yes you're right and it might not even take 24 months. The sad thing is people are still praising the EU and do not understand or accept the problems it has caused. Meanwhile those at the top stick their fingers in their ears because they know best obviously and carry on fiddling while Rome burns
If you're view is that Europe would be better of as a number of small states competing with each other and being used as geopolitical tools by Russia, the USA, China and probably India that's fine.
If you feel that we are a big enough market to not be pushed into being a low tax, low regulation economy by multinationals then fine.
If you feel that we are such a wealthy, important country that we can dictate our own course on our own in this environment just like in the "good old days" then again, fine.
The EU has major problems but they are significantly less than being alone in the world.
We will just have to wait and see but I do know that I am 20% poorer when I leave this country than I was before and everything that I buy will be 10-20% more expensive as company currency hedges run out."
(m) answering this part as due to my profession. Since approx. 3 months Vulture Hedge Funds (yes that is the correct name) have been taking long term "bets" (specially constructed Futures) against the Euro.
In simple terms they (the funds) expect that the Euro will either split in two (a strong and a week) Euro's dragging the value of the Euro down against the other major currencies such as US$, GBP, CHF, Yen and Renminbi (China).
Therefore the statement I shall be poor is not correct but simple a possibility. The Euro in real terms is overvalued and in the BIZ (Bank for International Settlement Basle) the estimate is that the Euro is overvalued by 20-38% due to the factors:
Aging (Population is grown old and therefore the productivity is growing less)
Debt (Italy has a debt factor is 132% vs. GDP [Luxemburg is just behind])
Youth unemployment
So again please before "screaming" do research in dedicated forums and websites as such statements as that "we shall be 20% poorer" are just party political statements... Like Mr Osbourne and his "Great Britain will be swallowed by a mountain of debt within 2 weeks after Brexit"  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"
(m) answering this part as due to my profession. Since approx. 3 months Vulture Hedge Funds (yes that is the correct name) have been taking long term "bets" (specially constructed Futures) against the Euro.
In simple terms they (the funds) expect that the Euro will either split in two (a strong and a week) Euro's dragging the value of the Euro down against the other major currencies such as US$, GBP, CHF, Yen and Renminbi (China).
Therefore the statement I shall be poor is not correct but simple a possibility. The Euro in real terms is overvalued and in the BIZ (Bank for International Settlement Basle) the estimate is that the Euro is overvalued by 20-38% due to the factors:
Aging (Population is grown old and therefore the productivity is growing less)
Debt (Italy has a debt factor is 132% vs. GDP [Luxemburg is just behind])
Youth unemployment
So again please before "screaming" do research in dedicated forums and websites as such statements as that "we shall be 20% poorer" are just party political statements... Like Mr Osbourne and his "Great Britain will be swallowed by a mountain of debt within 2 weeks after Brexit" "
I did actually say that I am poorer. This holds for short term which I don't think that you are disagreeing with.
A Euro split would be interesting. How would that work?
A second central bank?
We face the same demographic factors and may throttle growth prospects further with a tightening of skills shortages.
I guess that household debt relative to the Eurozone has also been priced in?
So what will the Dollar exchange move to?
I also said that we'd have to wait and see. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
The polls generally have a 2% to 5% so, although both BREXIT and Trump were not predicted by the polls the polls did predict both as close and both Trump and BREXIT were within the margins of error. Labour with Corbyn is not even within a statistical possibility of winning and definitely no where near any margin of error. WAKE-UP and smell the coffee for god's sake before it's too late!!
The problem is having a dysfunctional opposition when the country is at such a critical turning point.
With the referendum margin so close there is no justification for a hard Brexit. Leave the EU for sure but do so in actual accord with the will of the people.
Any leavers actually have a sensible compromise or is it completely impossible to visualise anything other than hard Brexit?"
You keep saying the margin of victory was close. Sure it sounds close when you say 52-48% or leave won by only a 4% margin but that 4% equates to 1 AND A HALF MILLTON VOTES. It's really not a close vote at all when Leave got 1 and a half million more votes than Remain.
Furthermore the Welsh referendum on devolution was a much smaller margin of victory, less than 1% margin of victory yet the result of the Welsh referendum was accepted and implemented without question. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"
With the referendum margin so close there is no justification for a hard Brexit. Leave the EU for sure but do so in actual accord with the will of the people.
Any leavers actually have a sensible compromise or is it completely impossible to visualise anything other than hard Brexit?
You keep saying the margin of victory was close. Sure it sounds close when you say 52-48% or leave won by only a 4% margin but that 4% equates to 1 AND A HALF MILLTON VOTES. It's really not a close vote at all when Leave got 1 and a half million more votes than Remain.
Furthermore the Welsh referendum on devolution was a much smaller margin of victory, less than 1% margin of victory yet the result of the Welsh referendum was accepted and implemented without question. "
So no sensible compromise then. No surprise I guess.
As I've said elsewhere the consequences of devolution are nothing like as substantive. Why do you think nobody as worried about the result? It was not a bitterly fought campaign and the effect on day to day life has been minimal.
The Scottish referendum result was far bigger for In but passions are still very high with those wanting independence. Would you care explain that?
1.5 million votes difference out of 33.5 million is a close margin. That's why you use percentages in order to gauge the difference relative to the total.
The referendum means that we are leaving the EU. Yes. Nobody has said otherwise. It's quite a stretch claiming that you or anybody else knows exactly what people's views of what the details of the final form of this should be considering the question asked. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"It never seems to work out too well for Europe when the far right come to power. I'm not quite sure why you are so keen on it.
I dont think many want a return to the extreme right from the past but perhaps the PC pro euro fanatics need to realise that the disaffected always go to the far sides of politics if they feel left behind,the warning signs are there but the pro euro brigade have their heads in the sand and dismiss any anti eu feeling as racist/thick/old/nationlists, ask yourself what caused the rise of the far right in germany in the 30's "
Growing inequality - check
Growing inflation - check
Politicians blaming one section of society - check
Attacks on the intelligentsia - check
Yeah, the same kind of conditions as Brexit. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
The EU wont accept us staying in the single market without free movement so there is very little option, had they been more flexible in the talks with DC then the result might have been different, they called the UK's bluff and they called wrong now the senario has to play out, unless of course they admit they were wrong and back down
No then and it was of course the fault of the EU
You do understand the economic logic of free movement of labour don't you?
Free movement no controlled movement yes, very different .
The only ones who will make life difficult might be the EU for purely political reasons,you do understand the economic logic of free trade in europe dont you. Then perhaps you could explain it to the EU"
Do you understand what free trade anywhere actually means or the difference between free trade, freer trade, open trade and fair trade? Because if you did you'd realise that you can not have free movement if goods, services and capital without free movement of labour to. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
The EU wont accept us staying in the single market without free movement so there is very little option, had they been more flexible in the talks with DC then the result might have been different, they called the UK's bluff and they called wrong now the senario has to play out, unless of course they admit they were wrong and back down
No then and it was of course the fault of the EU
You do understand the economic logic of free movement of labour don't you?
Free movement no controlled movement yes, very different .
The only ones who will make life difficult might be the EU for purely political reasons,you do understand the economic logic of free trade in europe dont you. Then perhaps you could explain it to the EU
Do you understand what free trade anywhere actually means or the difference between free trade, freer trade, open trade and fair trade? Because if you did you'd realise that you can not have free movement if goods, services and capital without free movement of labour to. "
so what is NAFTA? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"
Do you understand what free trade anywhere actually means or the difference between free trade, freer trade, open trade and fair trade? Because if you did you'd realise that you can not have free movement if goods, services and capital without free movement of labour to.
so what is NAFTA?"
The vocabulary is very unhelpful here.
The EU is actually in a customs union. This is absolutely the most open economic relationship possible internal trade is uninhibited just like your domestic economy. It becomes your domestic economy.
Free trade is not free trade. It is a more open agreement with different tariffs on different goods and services but lower than those of the WTO default regulations on whatever you have decided you want to lower them on. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
The EU wont accept us staying in the single market without free movement so there is very little option, had they been more flexible in the talks with DC then the result might have been different, they called the UK's bluff and they called wrong now the senario has to play out, unless of course they admit they were wrong and back down
No then and it was of course the fault of the EU
You do understand the economic logic of free movement of labour don't you?
Free movement no controlled movement yes, very different .
The only ones who will make life difficult might be the EU for purely political reasons,you do understand the economic logic of free trade in europe dont you. Then perhaps you could explain it to the EU
Do you understand what free trade anywhere actually means or the difference between free trade, freer trade, open trade and fair trade? Because if you did you'd realise that you can not have free movement if goods, services and capital without free movement of labour to.
so what is NAFTA?"
North American Free Trade Agreement.
I did feel the urge to point out every time Obama said we should stay in Europe that if NAFTA had allowed freedom of movement from Mexico, no US President would have signed off on it in a million years for fear of the backlash. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
The EU wont accept us staying in the single market without free movement so there is very little option, had they been more flexible in the talks with DC then the result might have been different, they called the UK's bluff and they called wrong now the senario has to play out, unless of course they admit they were wrong and back down
No then and it was of course the fault of the EU
You do understand the economic logic of free movement of labour don't you?
Free movement no controlled movement yes, very different .
The only ones who will make life difficult might be the EU for purely political reasons,you do understand the economic logic of free trade in europe dont you. Then perhaps you could explain it to the EU
Do you understand what free trade anywhere actually means or the difference between free trade, freer trade, open trade and fair trade? Because if you did you'd realise that you can not have free movement if goods, services and capital without free movement of labour to.
so what is NAFTA?
North American Free Trade Agreement.
I did feel the urge to point out every time Obama said we should stay in Europe that if NAFTA had allowed freedom of movement from Mexico, no US President would have signed off on it in a million years for fear of the backlash. "
NAFTA (North American Free Trade Agreement) is no where near as extensive in either scope or ambition as the EU is. It would be better compared to EFTA (European Free Trade Area) but even less so than that. NAFTA could really be called a Freer Trade deal rather than a free trade deal. NAFTA does not allow complete free movement of goods, services and capital therefor there is not the requirement for the same levels of free movement of labour either. However Chapter 16 of the NAFTA agreement did address movement of people across the Canadian and Mexican borders and lead to a relaxation of immigration controls between the 3 countries. It's wording says 'temporary cross-border movement of business travellers within the NAFTA region'. Here is a link to a fuller explanation of what is allowed under NAFTA movement of Labour rules.
http://www.sice.oas.org/trade/nafta/chap-162.asp
It's no where near as extensive or permissive as EU rules on free movement are but then NAFTA itself is no where near as permissive of free trade as even EFTA, never mind the EU, is.
Also, one of reasons why many people argue that many businesses in the US have relocated to Mexico as a result of NAFTA is because there is not enough free movement of Labour to make the freedoms of movement in goods, capital and services work properly, see this NAFTA critical page as an example of the argument.
http://www.combatingglobalization.com/articles/free_movement_of_citizens.html
Free Trade and Free Movement of Labour are always linked. The more free trade you have the more free movement of labour is required. The more restricted your movement of labour is the less free trade you can realistically allow. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
Again, the initial UK negotiating position is that we want everything that we have now but not pay for any of it. This would mean the UK having a better deal than EU member states. Is that feasible?
"
Not want to pay for it?
I do believe we pay the third highest next to Germany and France
Also some member states actually pay nothing towards the EU but still get all the benefits.
Free trade does not automatically involve free movement of labour.
You can have a customs union without free movement of labour. Just because the EU does not want that does not mean it isn't possible. Just because I sell you my car does it mean you have to give me the right to move into your house too? (Simplistic I know)
The simple problem with the EU is they do not see that it is a repeat of history. Other blocs have tried and failed.
You cannot have 28 countries and expect them all to gain from a customs union when they all want different things from the union. We can't even get that with the home nations let alone a continent wide group..
The EU was and should have always been nothing more than a customs union not this federal superstate straight out of the novel 1984.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
(m) answering this part as due to my profession. Since approx. 3 months Vulture Hedge Funds (yes that is the correct name) have been taking long term "bets" (specially constructed Futures) against the Euro.
In simple terms they (the funds) expect that the Euro will either split in two (a strong and a week) Euro's dragging the value of the Euro down against the other major currencies such as US$, GBP, CHF, Yen and Renminbi (China).
Therefore the statement I shall be poor is not correct but simple a possibility. The Euro in real terms is overvalued and in the BIZ (Bank for International Settlement Basle) the estimate is that the Euro is overvalued by 20-38% due to the factors:
Aging (Population is grown old and therefore the productivity is growing less)
Debt (Italy has a debt factor is 132% vs. GDP [Luxemburg is just behind])
Youth unemployment
So again please before "screaming" do research in dedicated forums and websites as such statements as that "we shall be 20% poorer" are just party political statements... Like Mr Osbourne and his "Great Britain will be swallowed by a mountain of debt within 2 weeks after Brexit"
I did actually say that I am poorer. This holds for short term which I don't think that you are disagreeing with.
A Euro split would be interesting. How would that work?
A second central bank?
We face the same demographic factors and may throttle growth prospects further with a tightening of skills shortages.
I guess that household debt relative to the Eurozone has also been priced in?
So what will the Dollar exchange move to?
I also said that we'd have to wait and see."
(m) answering your questions
The split suggested by several "leading" brains (the five wise men of Germany) would see that the Southern states of the EU (Spain/Malta/Portugal/France/Italy etc [throwing in Ireland]) would receive an Euro with a difference of 30% to the Northern Euro (covering countries like Germany/Holland etc.)
There is no need for two European Central Banks as it is the same "currency" but traded in a different manner... there are enough examples for such splits from the past banking history like the "old" Rubel (export/inland).
I disagree with the statement that Britain faces the same as rest of Europe with over-aging, due to the simple fact "Jobs". The EU is running a job deficit since 1994 and as the UK is the strongest growing "works" market in Europe younger unemployed EU citizens with high qualifications will move to the UK. This reduces the age "gap" and since 2002 the average age in the UK has dropped against the other major EU markets such as Germany and France.
Look at how many young highly qualified Greece's, Italians, French, Germans etc have moved to the UK [not only to the London area] to find work or set up their own businesses.
As long as the UK still has the Anglo-Saxon "dish washer to millionaire" possibilities then these young people will arrive; as in certain countries you can never ever break out of the "class system".
The IMF has accepted the above and has found (internally) that all their 2016 remarks were incorrect and misleading.
The Dollar is a "demand" currency, same as CHF (Swiss Francs) the more conflicts there are the higher the currency exchange rates go up. With the Fed thinking of increasing the interest rates by .25% within the next 3 months the move of "foreign" Dollars back to the States will continue as investors will pull out of other markets such as Brazil etc due to the high risk factors.
Hope that gives an explanation |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
You keep saying the margin of victory was close. Sure it sounds close when you say 52-48% or leave won by only a 4% margin but that 4% equates to 1 AND A HALF MILLTON VOTES. It's really not a close vote at all"
It's not even "1 AND A HALF MILLION VOTES" difference though is it.
Leave = 17,410,742 = 51.89%
Remain = 16,141,241 = 48.11%
= 1,269,501 difference = 3.78% difference over the entire votes cast.
3.78% doesn't equate to a landslide victory at all like you are attempting to shout from the roof tops.
Though what you might want to shout about is the the % difference between the 2 results which is over 7% |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago
Barbados |
"
You keep saying the margin of victory was close. Sure it sounds close when you say 52-48% or leave won by only a 4% margin but that 4% equates to 1 AND A HALF MILLTON VOTES. It's really not a close vote at all
It's not even "1 AND A HALF MILLION VOTES" difference though is it.
Leave = 17,410,742 = 51.89%
Remain = 16,141,241 = 48.11%
= 1,269,501 difference = 3.78% difference over the entire votes cast.
3.78% doesn't equate to a landslide victory at all like you are attempting to shout from the roof tops.
Though what you might want to shout about is the the % difference between the 2 results which is over 7%"
...and hence why for referendums that are legally binding, and not merely advisory they generally require a super-majority of something like 60% for a 'win'.
-Matt |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
Again, the initial UK negotiating position is that we want everything that we have now but not pay for any of it. This would mean the UK having a better deal than EU member states. Is that feasible?
Not want to pay for it?
I do believe we pay the third highest next to Germany and France
Also some member states actually pay nothing towards the EU but still get all the benefits.
Free trade does not automatically involve free movement of labour.
You can have a customs union without free movement of labour. Just because the EU does not want that does not mean it isn't possible. Just because I sell you my car does it mean you have to give me the right to move into your house too? (Simplistic I know)
The simple problem with the EU is they do not see that it is a repeat of history. Other blocs have tried and failed.
You cannot have 28 countries and expect them all to gain from a customs union when they all want different things from the union. We can't even get that with the home nations let alone a continent wide group..
The EU was and should have always been nothing more than a customs union not this federal superstate straight out of the novel 1984.
"
The EU is the the only trade block in the world that has free movement of people as a stipulation of membership. Membership of the EU comes with many shitty strings attached, it is so much more than just a trade deal now, it is a political project, a political union with ever closer union as a core principle. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"It never seems to work out too well for Europe when the far right come to power. I'm not quite sure why you are so keen on it.
I dont think many want a return to the extreme right from the past but perhaps the PC pro euro fanatics need to realise that the disaffected always go to the far sides of politics if they feel left behind,the warning signs are there but the pro euro brigade have their heads in the sand and dismiss any anti eu feeling as racist/thick/old/nationlists, ask yourself what caused the rise of the far right in germany in the 30's
Growing inequality - check
Growing inflation - check
Politicians blaming one section of society - check
Attacks on the intelligentsia - check
Yeah, the same kind of conditions as Brexit."
That's incorrect. Growing inflation is not a check. The bank of England did a reassessment of inflation the other week and it's now projected to be lower than their previous forecast. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago
Barbados |
"
Again, the initial UK negotiating position is that we want everything that we have now but not pay for any of it. This would mean the UK having a better deal than EU member states. Is that feasible?
Not want to pay for it?
I do believe we pay the third highest next to Germany and France
Also some member states actually pay nothing towards the EU but still get all the benefits.
Free trade does not automatically involve free movement of labour.
You can have a customs union without free movement of labour. Just because the EU does not want that does not mean it isn't possible. Just because I sell you my car does it mean you have to give me the right to move into your house too? (Simplistic I know)
The simple problem with the EU is they do not see that it is a repeat of history. Other blocs have tried and failed.
You cannot have 28 countries and expect them all to gain from a customs union when they all want different things from the union. We can't even get that with the home nations let alone a continent wide group..
The EU was and should have always been nothing more than a customs union not this federal superstate straight out of the novel 1984.
The EU is the the only trade block in the world that has free movement of people as a stipulation of membership. Membership of the EU comes with many shitty strings attached, it is so much more than just a trade deal now, it is a political project, a political union with ever closer union as a core principle. "
The EU is a political union?! Fuck me... why didn't anyone every tell me that before?
-Matt |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"
Again, the initial UK negotiating position is that we want everything that we have now but not pay for any of it. This would mean the UK having a better deal than EU member states. Is that feasible?
Not want to pay for it?
I do believe we pay the third highest next to Germany and France
Also some member states actually pay nothing towards the EU but still get all the benefits.
Free trade does not automatically involve free movement of labour.
You can have a customs union without free movement of labour. Just because the EU does not want that does not mean it isn't possible. Just because I sell you my car does it mean you have to give me the right to move into your house too? (Simplistic I know)
The simple problem with the EU is they do not see that it is a repeat of history. Other blocs have tried and failed.
You cannot have 28 countries and expect them all to gain from a customs union when they all want different things from the union. We can't even get that with the home nations let alone a continent wide group..
The EU was and should have always been nothing more than a customs union not this federal superstate straight out of the novel 1984.
"
I said the UK negotiating position for leaving the EU.
As ever how much countries pay in now vs how much they get back is rather complicated.
The general principle is that you pay relative to size of economy. The UK is the only country that receives a rebate which I believe is for just being the UK.
We were the second biggest economy, now the third. We are the 2nd biggest net contributor. We are the 4th biggest gross contributor. We are the 6th biggest contributor per head. We contribute the smallest proportion of national income.
Every country pays a contribution. The poorest make a net gain and the richest a net loss in cash terms.
Every country receives EU money. 40% is spent on agricultural subsidies. The majority of spending in poor countries is on infrastructure with the intention of improving their economies such that they grow business and industry become richer and the market (the cake) gets bigger for everyone to trade their goods.
Cash payments do not account for benefits that accrue from joint research and grants, the location of research facilities and larger possible scale and the location of EU agency headquarters.
The UK benefits from a high proportion of European headquarters of international companies.
We do £220 billion of sales to the EU every year. Even an extremely conservative assumption that only 10% of this is facilitated by the seamless trade zone that exists, that amounts to £22 billion, dwarfing the £8 billion net contribution to the EU.
Trade agreements do not require the movement of labour. However, restricting this means that if a country has labour costs that are too high or lack of necessary skills, at a certain point it becomes more economical to build a new factory somewhere else within the trade zone moving jobs, the associated spending in the economy and taxation somewhere else. If labour moves then the company remains in the same location.
I'm not sure what repetition of history the EU is. I do not know of another association of independent states that created an international superpower within a few years of having tried to destroy each other.
A grouping this big is messy, but the goal is the same. Wealth and stability. This sore likely to be achieved by working together with the complex and messy compromise this involves than assuming a zero sum game where for you to win you ensure that the other guy loses.
The EU and its predecessors were always a political as well as an economic project coming from the consequences of WW2 and the rise of Communism.
These points have been made and a decision has been reached, but please don't claim that any of these decisions that come are easy or that the outcome does not hold the potential of working out very badly for UK relative to the, admittedly imperfect, existing situation. I'm yet to be convinced of the upside as it is so nebulous.
I can only wait and see like the rest of us. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
Again, the initial UK negotiating position is that we want everything that we have now but not pay for any of it. This would mean the UK having a better deal than EU member states. Is that feasible?
Not want to pay for it?
I do believe we pay the third highest next to Germany and France
Also some member states actually pay nothing towards the EU but still get all the benefits.
Free trade does not automatically involve free movement of labour.
You can have a customs union without free movement of labour. Just because the EU does not want that does not mean it isn't possible. Just because I sell you my car does it mean you have to give me the right to move into your house too? (Simplistic I know)
The simple problem with the EU is they do not see that it is a repeat of history. Other blocs have tried and failed.
You cannot have 28 countries and expect them all to gain from a customs union when they all want different things from the union. We can't even get that with the home nations let alone a continent wide group..
The EU was and should have always been nothing more than a customs union not this federal superstate straight out of the novel 1984.
The EU is the the only trade block in the world that has free movement of people as a stipulation of membership. Membership of the EU comes with many shitty strings attached, it is so much more than just a trade deal now, it is a political project, a political union with ever closer union as a core principle. "
Think you got you lines crossed there. The EU has no where in the guide lines sent down the "Free Movement of People". Further if you read the declaration of the EU you will find it is a mirror to the American declaration however with a big "small" difference.
This difference is that the US citizens have the right to elect, however in the EU only the European parliament has the right to elect.
This and many more are misinformation from pro Brexit and anti Brexit parties... The Freedom of Movement is not a ground right in the EU...sorry |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
Again, the initial UK negotiating position is that we want everything that we have now but not pay for any of it. This would mean the UK having a better deal than EU member states. Is that feasible?
Not want to pay for it?
I do believe we pay the third highest next to Germany and France
Also some member states actually pay nothing towards the EU but still get all the benefits.
Free trade does not automatically involve free movement of labour.
You can have a customs union without free movement of labour. Just because the EU does not want that does not mean it isn't possible. Just because I sell you my car does it mean you have to give me the right to move into your house too? (Simplistic I know)
The simple problem with the EU is they do not see that it is a repeat of history. Other blocs have tried and failed.
You cannot have 28 countries and expect them all to gain from a customs union when they all want different things from the union. We can't even get that with the home nations let alone a continent wide group..
The EU was and should have always been nothing more than a customs union not this federal superstate straight out of the novel 1984.
The EU is the the only trade block in the world that has free movement of people as a stipulation of membership. Membership of the EU comes with many shitty strings attached, it is so much more than just a trade deal now, it is a political project, a political union with ever closer union as a core principle.
Think you got you lines crossed there. The EU has no where in the guide lines sent down the "Free Movement of People". Further if you read the declaration of the EU you will find it is a mirror to the American declaration however with a big "small" difference.
This difference is that the US citizens have the right to elect, however in the EU only the European parliament has the right to elect.
This and many more are misinformation from pro Brexit and anti Brexit parties... The Freedom of Movement is not a ground right in the EU...sorry "
The likes of Jean Claude Juncker, Donald Tusk and Martin Shultz love trotting out the "free movement of people is a core principle of the EU" line, they say it over and over again, so either it is a core principle or they are telling lies. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"
Think you got you lines crossed there. The EU has no where in the guide lines sent down the "Free Movement of People". Further if you read the declaration of the EU you will find it is a mirror to the American declaration however with a big "small" difference.
This difference is that the US citizens have the right to elect, however in the EU only the European parliament has the right to elect.
This and many more are misinformation from pro Brexit and anti Brexit parties... The Freedom of Movement is not a ground right in the EU...sorry
The likes of Jean Claude Juncker, Donald Tusk and Martin Shultz love trotting out the "free movement of people is a core principle of the EU" line, they say it over and over again, so either it is a core principle or they are telling lies. "
It began as the free movement of workers and developed into European citizenship and the free movement of people to work, study and live.
Those that do move are inherently no more likely to claim benefits or commit a crime or be more of a burden on any public service than a local.
The problem always was the sudden impact in local areas which could have been prevented by the UK government with restrictions at the time. Having failed to do that we could have negotiated for EU funds for infrastructure and simple things like language classes. We didn't do that either.
However, in return we have had one of the fastest growing economies in the world in large part because we have bypassed domestic skills shortages.
That's the reason that freedom of movement is so enmeshed with moving goods and capital and with economic growth. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
Again, the initial UK negotiating position is that we want everything that we have now but not pay for any of it. This would mean the UK having a better deal than EU member states. Is that feasible?
Not want to pay for it?
I do believe we pay the third highest next to Germany and France
Also some member states actually pay nothing towards the EU but still get all the benefits.
Free trade does not automatically involve free movement of labour.
You can have a customs union without free movement of labour. Just because the EU does not want that does not mean it isn't possible. Just because I sell you my car does it mean you have to give me the right to move into your house too? (Simplistic I know)
The simple problem with the EU is they do not see that it is a repeat of history. Other blocs have tried and failed.
You cannot have 28 countries and expect them all to gain from a customs union when they all want different things from the union. We can't even get that with the home nations let alone a continent wide group..
The EU was and should have always been nothing more than a customs union not this federal superstate straight out of the novel 1984.
The EU is the the only trade block in the world that has free movement of people as a stipulation of membership. Membership of the EU comes with many shitty strings attached, it is so much more than just a trade deal now, it is a political project, a political union with ever closer union as a core principle.
Think you got you lines crossed there. The EU has no where in the guide lines sent down the "Free Movement of People". Further if you read the declaration of the EU you will find it is a mirror to the American declaration however with a big "small" difference.
This difference is that the US citizens have the right to elect, however in the EU only the European parliament has the right to elect.
This and many more are misinformation from pro Brexit and anti Brexit parties... The Freedom of Movement is not a ground right in the EU...sorry
The likes of Jean Claude Juncker, Donald Tusk and Martin Shultz love trotting out the "free movement of people is a core principle of the EU" line, they say it over and over again, so either it is a core principle or they are telling lies. "
Sadly it is a lie - but do you believe an alcoholic, a left leaning socialist and a politician that was in all principles "chased" out his country?
Mr Schulz is well known in Germany and most people do not take him for real ... Mr Junkers the person who damns countries such as Holland, Switzerland and others for the taxes but enabled companies to be in Luxemburg for 3% and Mr Tusk who has no idea of history...
Those are the people heading the EU or were...Mr Schulz saw the writing on the wall and has vanished |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"
Again, the initial UK negotiating position is that we want everything that we have now but not pay for any of it. This would mean the UK having a better deal than EU member states. Is that feasible?
Not want to pay for it?
I do believe we pay the third highest next to Germany and France
Also some member states actually pay nothing towards the EU but still get all the benefits.
Free trade does not automatically involve free movement of labour.
You can have a customs union without free movement of labour. Just because the EU does not want that does not mean it isn't possible. Just because I sell you my car does it mean you have to give me the right to move into your house too? (Simplistic I know)
The simple problem with the EU is they do not see that it is a repeat of history. Other blocs have tried and failed.
You cannot have 28 countries and expect them all to gain from a customs union when they all want different things from the union. We can't even get that with the home nations let alone a continent wide group..
The EU was and should have always been nothing more than a customs union not this federal superstate straight out of the novel 1984.
The EU is the the only trade block in the world that has free movement of people as a stipulation of membership. Membership of the EU comes with many shitty strings attached, it is so much more than just a trade deal now, it is a political project, a political union with ever closer union as a core principle.
Think you got you lines crossed there. The EU has no where in the guide lines sent down the "Free Movement of People". Further if you read the declaration of the EU you will find it is a mirror to the American declaration however with a big "small" difference.
This difference is that the US citizens have the right to elect, however in the EU only the European parliament has the right to elect.
This and many more are misinformation from pro Brexit and anti Brexit parties... The Freedom of Movement is not a ground right in the EU...sorry
The likes of Jean Claude Juncker, Donald Tusk and Martin Shultz love trotting out the "free movement of people is a core principle of the EU" line, they say it over and over again, so either it is a core principle or they are telling lies.
Sadly it is a lie - but do you believe an alcoholic, a left leaning socialist and a politician that was in all principles "chased" out his country?
Mr Schulz is well known in Germany and most people do not take him for real ... Mr Junkers the person who damns countries such as Holland, Switzerland and others for the taxes but enabled companies to be in Luxemburg for 3% and Mr Tusk who has no idea of history...
Those are the people heading the EU or were...Mr Schulz saw the writing on the wall and has vanished"
Depends on if May, Boris, Fox and Davis are more reliable  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
» Add a new message to this topic
. I'm truly happy.