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Early Warning Signs of Emerging Fascism
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"From the Holocaust Museum... * Powerful and continuing nationalism * Disdain for human rights * Identification of enemies as a unifying cause * Supremacy of the military * Rampant sexism * Controlled mass media * Obsession with national security * Religion and government intertwined * Corporate power protected * Labour suppressed * Disdain for intellectuals & the arts * Obsession with crime & punishment * Rampant cronyism & corruption * Fraudulent elections Bearing in mind that this list was from decades ago and we live in a different world now, still it is interesting that a few on that list can already be ticked off and others going in the appropriate direction." nope, we live in a far better world today; life is wonderful | |||
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"The Alt. Right are just a lower case KKK. "whats KKK? | |||
"The Alt. Right are just a lower case KKK.
whats KKK?"Looks like you have been taking notes from CandMs debating style  | |||
"The Alt. Right are just a lower case KKK.
whats KKK?"That's not even funny | |||
"The Alt. Right are just a lower case KKK.
whats KKK?
That's not even funny "not meant to be funny, direct question the person who wrote it | |||
"The Alt. Right are just a lower case KKK.
whats KKK?
That's not even funny
not meant to be funny, direct question the person who wrote it"Stevie if your going to troll at least have a sense of humour. Your better than that.Where is the witty come back. | |||
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"You really compare Trump to Hitler serious "Yeah steve i did , have you googled KKK yet. | |||
"You really compare Trump to Hitler serious "Boris Johnson compared the French PM to a concentration camp guard. | |||
"nope, we live in a far better world today; my life is wonderful" FTFY | |||
"nope, we live in a far better world today; my life is wonderful FTFY "thank you for your kindness, actually most peoples lives are much better today, I often chat to my elderly parents in there 90's they remind me of what days were like with outside toilets, lack of heating, rationed food, 2nd world war I would say again for most "life is good" some just do not know it | |||
"nope, we live in a far better world today; my life is wonderful FTFY "Yeah America became great again the moment the black guy left the whitehouse..  | |||
"nope, we live in a far better world today; my life is wonderful FTFY thank you for your kindness,
actually most peoples lives are much better today, I often chat to my elderly parents in there 90's they remind me of what days were like with outside toilets, lack of heating, rationed food, 2nd world war
I would say again for most "life is good" some just do not know it "You are absolutely right but why not put the country and its people down by telling them its shit - "but we can make it great again." | |||
"nope, we live in a far better world today; my life is wonderful FTFY thank you for your kindness,
actually most peoples lives are much better today, I often chat to my elderly parents in there 90's they remind me of what days were like with outside toilets, lack of heating, rationed food, 2nd world war
I would say again for most "life is good" some just do not know it
You are absolutely right but why not put the country and its people down by telling them its shit - "but we can make it great again.""Precisely, when did Britain stop being great? I know things have been difficult since the 2008 financial crisis, and progress overall plateaued out, but lets face it, where would you rather live, here or one of the less developed latin american countries, here or in one of the less developed south east asian countries...China? India? Daniel Hanan, a long time leave supporter even wrote a column explaining how he felt the Brexit won, Trump won, Bernie Sanders and Corbyn rose in influence, hugely helped by the ill management of the 2008 crash and resentment at how cost of living has gone up against wages, whilst the rich have got richer. | |||
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"Numerous Arab/muslim fascist states fit that description perfectly." ...  | |||
"You really compare Trump to Hitler serious "You can easily; So many parallels; only differences so far are; Trump is Rich, Hitler was poor ( which drove his fanatical actions) Hitler was far more coherent. And Hitler was initially very well thought of by many in the rest of Europe and the west. The ways Trump ( or rather the actual President, Steve Bannon) is acting and the track they are following is almost identical. | |||
"nope, we live in a far better world today; my life is wonderful FTFY Yeah America became great again the moment the black guy left the whitehouse.. "Yep they are not colour predjudiced; they have an orange man now | |||
" actually most peoples lives are much better today, I often chat to my elderly parents in there 90's they remind me of what days were like with outside toilets, lack of heating, rationed food, 2nd world war I would say again for most "life is good" some just do not know it " No it really isn't. People have more material things; more " comforts", but life has lost community, mutual support, integrated families, neighbourliness, and personal quality of life; It's has lost culture, truth and education. That's what really matters. | |||
" actually most peoples lives are much better today, I often chat to my elderly parents in there 90's they remind me of what days were like with outside toilets, lack of heating, rationed food, 2nd world war I would say again for most "life is good" some just do not know it No it really isn't. People have more material things; more " comforts", but life has lost community, mutual support, integrated families, neighbourliness, and personal quality of life; It's has lost culture, truth and education. That's what really matters. " . you Speak for yourself with the above . Life is great, large home, nice cars, home comforts and more importantly, land, 5 acres is plenty for me, gives the opportunity of "The good life", growing own crops, land for the animals, and isolation if needed, but we do have a fantastic rural community, great schooling, classes of 16 or under and less in Primary schools, neighbours are fantastic although nearest is 100 yards away but always a welcome and always available for loan of farming equipment either way. . I help out elderly neighbours, cutting grass, cutting back hedges, tree's, cutting back drive ways too. . life is great, and rural community living is amazing as is the scenery and wildlife, I love it so much I don't even hunt now. . perhaps if yo cut back on your trips to france, trips to UK, trips here and there, then perhaps community life could grow with you, you need to be able to "give" to enable yourself also to receive . its sad you feel you have such a shit life as you say above  | |||
" actually most peoples lives are much better today, I often chat to my elderly parents in there 90's they remind me of what days were like with outside toilets, lack of heating, rationed food, 2nd world war I would say again for most "life is good" some just do not know it No it really isn't. People have more material things; more " comforts", but life has lost community, mutual support, integrated families, neighbourliness, and personal quality of life; It's has lost culture, truth and education. That's what really matters. . you Speak for yourself with the above . Life is great, large home, nice cars, home comforts and more importantly, land, 5 acres is plenty for me, gives the opportunity of "The good life", growing own crops, land for the animals, and isolation if needed, but we do have a fantastic rural community, great schooling, classes of 16 or under and less in Primary schools, neighbours are fantastic although nearest is 100 yards away but always a welcome and always available for loan of farming equipment either way. . I help out elderly neighbours, cutting grass, cutting back hedges, tree's, cutting back drive ways too. . life is great, and rural community living is amazing as is the scenery and wildlife, I love it so much I don't even hunt now. . perhaps if yo cut back on your trips to france, trips to UK, trips here and there, then perhaps community life could grow with you, you need to be able to "give" to enable yourself also to receive . its sad you feel you have such a shit life as you say above "Rural isolation heaven for some hell for others. | |||
"You really compare Trump to Hitler serious
You can easily;
So many parallels; only differences so far are; Trump is Rich, Hitler was poor ( which drove his fanatical actions)
Hitler was far more coherent.
And Hitler was initially very well thought of by many in the rest of Europe and the west.
The ways Trump ( or rather the actual President, Steve Bannon) is acting and the track they are following is almost identical.
"That is a very distorted view of the facts. His book Mein Kampf made him a multi millionaire . Similar like this dude in the US he never paid proper taxes on this royalty income. And the NSDAP had great and wealthy sponsors from Krupp, Flick , IG Farben etc. make your home work in research | |||
"The Alt. Right are just a lower case KKK.
whats KKK?
That's not even funny "Took me a while to get it Muito bem | |||
"The Alt. Right are just a lower case KKK.
whats KKK?
That's not even funny
Took me a while to get it
Muito bem " | |||
"You really compare Trump to Hitler serious
You can easily;
So many parallels; only differences so far are; Trump is Rich, Hitler was poor ( which drove his fanatical actions)
Hitler was far more coherent.
And Hitler was initially very well thought of by many in the rest of Europe and the west.
The ways Trump ( or rather the actual President, Steve Bannon) is acting and the track they are following is almost identical.
That is a very distorted view of the facts. His book Mein Kampf made him a multi millionaire . Similar like this dude in the US he never paid proper taxes on this royalty income. And the NSDAP had great and wealthy sponsors from Krupp, Flick , IG Farben etc. make your home work in research"Unfortunately it isn't; It's an accurate set of facts; I know my 20th century history. I omitted to point out that his book made him ( theoretically) wealthy; but it's irrelevant to the argument. But the point you chose to ignore ( and I didn't make clear) is that Hitler's political drive was because he came from a poor ( relatively poor) background, which partially formed his beliefs, as did his hatred of the officer class from his army experience. Trump comes from a wealthy background, and many of his values go back generations, which were " screw the other guy and make a buck" He uses the same tool as Hitler though, by appealing to a dissatisfied and frustrated, working and middle class who see themselves ( and who he encourages to see themselves) as luring their priveledges, and to feel angry at being " underprivileged. And finds ways to divert their anger at " people not like us" | |||
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" actually most peoples lives are much better today, I often chat to my elderly parents in there 90's they remind me of what days were like with outside toilets, lack of heating, rationed food, 2nd world war I would say again for most "life is good" some just do not know it No it really isn't. People have more material things; more " comforts", but life has lost community, mutual support, integrated families, neighbourliness, and personal quality of life; It's has lost culture, truth and education. That's what really matters. . you Speak for yourself with the above . Life is great, large home, nice cars, home comforts and more importantly, land, 5 acres is plenty for me, gives the opportunity of "The good life", growing own crops, land for the animals, and isolation if needed, but we do have a fantastic rural community, great schooling, classes of 16 or under and less in Primary schools, neighbours are fantastic although nearest is 100 yards away but always a welcome and always available for loan of farming equipment either way. . I help out elderly neighbours, cutting grass, cutting back hedges, tree's, cutting back drive ways too. . life is great, and rural community living is amazing as is the scenery and wildlife, I love it so much I don't even hunt now. . perhaps if yo cut back on your trips to france, trips to UK, trips here and there, then perhaps community life could grow with you, you need to be able to "give" to enable yourself also to receive . its sad you feel you have such a shit life as you say above Rural isolation heaven for some hell for others. "Don't be fooled, There are many things to do in Rural locations, & many are just a short drive from major towns & cities but without the hassle  | |||
"From the Holocaust Museum... * Powerful and continuing nationalism * Disdain for human rights * Identification of enemies as a unifying cause * Supremacy of the military * Rampant sexism * Controlled mass media * Obsession with national security * Religion and government intertwined * Corporate power protected * Labour suppressed * Disdain for intellectuals & the arts * Obsession with crime & punishment * Rampant cronyism & corruption * Fraudulent elections Bearing in mind that this list was from decades ago and we live in a different world now, still it is interesting that a few on that list can already be ticked off and others going in the appropriate direction." . Absolutely I agree but it's been going on for decades I really wonder how anybody has missed this?....I mean where have you all been living for 40 fucking years. Cronyism... Bush, Blair, Clinton, Obama, Thatcher, Reagan, Nixon. Obsession with crime... Err big clue Clinton jailed more people than any president in history!. Controlled mass media... Network won the best Oscar in 1976 for Christ sake the entire film is about mass madness from corporation controlled media. . . You have meddled with the primal forces of nature, Mr. Beale, and I won't have it! Is that clear? You think you've merely stopped a business deal. That is not the case! The Arabs have taken billions of dollars out of this country, and now they must put it back! It is ebb and flow, tidal gravity! It is ecological balance! You are an old man who thinks in terms of nations and peoples. There are no nations. There are no peoples. There are no Russians. There are no Arabs. There are no third worlds. There is no West. There is only one holistic system of systems, one vast and immane, interwoven, interacting, multivariate, multinational dominion of dollars. Petro-dollars, electro-dollars, multi-dollars, reichmarks, rins, rubles, pounds, and shekels. It is the international system of currency which determines the totality of life on this planet. That is the natural order of things today. That is the atomic and subatomic and galactic structure of things today! And YOU have meddled with the primal forces of nature, and YOU... WILL... ATONE! Am I getting through to you, Mr. Beale? You get up on your little twenty-one inch screen and howl about America and democracy. There is no America. There is no democracy. There is only IBM, and ITT, and AT&T, and DuPont, Dow, Union Carbide, and Exxon. Those are the nations of the world today. What do you think the Russians talk about in their councils of state, Karl Marx? They get out their linear programming charts, statistical decision theories, minimax solutions, and compute the price-cost probabilities of their transactions and investments, just like we do. We no longer live in a world of nations and ideologies, Mr. Beale. The world is a college of corporations, inexorably determined by the immutable bylaws of business. The world is a business, Mr. Beale. It has been since man crawled out of the slime. And our children will live, Mr. Beale, to see that... perfect world... in which there's no war or famine, oppression or brutality. One vast and ecumenical holding company, for whom all men will work to serve a common profit, in which all men will hold a share of stock. All necessities provided, all anxieties tranquilized, all boredom amused. And I have chosen you, Mr. Beale, to preach this evangel.... | |||
"From the Holocaust Museum... * Powerful and continuing nationalism * Disdain for human rights * Identification of enemies as a unifying cause * Supremacy of the military * Rampant sexism * Controlled mass media * Obsession with national security * Religion and government intertwined * Corporate power protected * Labour suppressed * Disdain for intellectuals & the arts * Obsession with crime & punishment * Rampant cronyism & corruption * Fraudulent elections Bearing in mind that this list was from decades ago and we live in a different world now, still it is interesting that a few on that list can already be ticked off and others going in the appropriate direction.. Absolutely I agree but it's been going on for decades I really wonder how anybody has missed this?....I mean where have you all been living for 40 fucking years. Cronyism... Bush, Blair, Clinton, Obama, Thatcher, Reagan, Nixon. Obsession with crime... Err big clue Clinton jailed more people than any president in history!. Controlled mass media... Network won the best Oscar in 1976 for Christ sake the entire film is about mass madness from corporation controlled media. . . You have meddled with the primal forces of nature, Mr. Beale, and I won't have it! Is that clear? You think you've merely stopped a business deal. That is not the case! The Arabs have taken billions of dollars out of this country, and now they must put it back! It is ebb and flow, tidal gravity! It is ecological balance! You are an old man who thinks in terms of nations and peoples. There are no nations. There are no peoples. There are no Russians. There are no Arabs. There are no third worlds. There is no West. There is only one holistic system of systems, one vast and immane, interwoven, interacting, multivariate, multinational dominion of dollars. Petro-dollars, electro-dollars, multi-dollars, reichmarks, rins, rubles, pounds, and shekels. It is the international system of currency which determines the totality of life on this planet. That is the natural order of things today. That is the atomic and subatomic and galactic structure of things today! And YOU have meddled with the primal forces of nature, and YOU... WILL... ATONE! Am I getting through to you, Mr. Beale? You get up on your little twenty-one inch screen and howl about America and democracy. There is no America. There is no democracy. There is only IBM, and ITT, and AT&T, and DuPont, Dow, Union Carbide, and Exxon. Those are the nations of the world today. What do you think the Russians talk about in their councils of state, Karl Marx? They get out their linear programming charts, statistical decision theories, minimax solutions, and compute the price-cost probabilities of their transactions and investments, just like we do. We no longer live in a world of nations and ideologies, Mr. Beale. The world is a college of corporations, inexorably determined by the immutable bylaws of business. The world is a business, Mr. Beale. It has been since man crawled out of the slime. And our children will live, Mr. Beale, to see that... perfect world... in which there's no war or famine, oppression or brutality. One vast and ecumenical holding company, for whom all men will work to serve a common profit, in which all men will hold a share of stock. All necessities provided, all anxieties tranquilized, all boredom amused. And I have chosen you, Mr. Beale, to preach this evangel...." I've been meaning to download this film I've seen plenty of clips on youtube.You're right money and power trumps democracy ,if democracy has ever existed. | |||
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"I've seen plenty of clips on youtube.You're right money and power trumps democracy ,if democracy has ever existed. " . It is probably the greatest prophetic film of all time!. . If you haven't watched it, you don't know what your missing, in fact watching it today is even more eye opening | |||
"I've seen plenty of clips on youtube.You're right money and power trumps democracy ,if democracy has ever existed. . It is probably the greatest prophetic film of all time!. . If you haven't watched it, you don't know what your missing, in fact watching it today is even more eye opening "If you want an unexpectedly prophetic film watch Idiocracy. Society has become its own parody. | |||
" Life is great, large home, nice cars, home comforts and more importantly, land, 5 acres is plenty for me, gives the opportunity of "The good life", growing own crops, land for the animals, and isolation if needed, but we do have a fantastic rural community, great schooling, classes of 16 or under and less in Primary schools, neighbours are fantastic although nearest is 100 yards away but always a welcome and always available for loan of farming equipment either way..." ...and then you woke up and got off the bus | |||
"From the Holocaust Museum... * Powerful and continuing nationalism * Disdain for human rights * Identification of enemies as a unifying cause * Supremacy of the military * Rampant sexism * Controlled mass media * Obsession with national security * Religion and government intertwined * Corporate power protected * Labour suppressed * Disdain for intellectuals & the arts * Obsession with crime & punishment * Rampant cronyism & corruption * Fraudulent elections Bearing in mind that this list was from decades ago and we live in a different world now, still it is interesting that a few on that list can already be ticked off and others going in the appropriate direction." We can add: * Supression of the press * Loss of judicial independence After all, the press are conspiring against the Donald, the U.S. Attorney General "betrayed" her country and US District Judge James Robart is now a "so called" judge  | |||
"nope, we live in a far better world today; my life is wonderful FTFY thank you for your kindness,
actually most peoples lives are much better today, I often chat to my elderly parents in there 90's they remind me of what days were like with outside toilets, lack of heating, rationed food, 2nd world war
I would say again for most "life is good" some just do not know it "So why leave the EU? | |||
"Numerous Arab/muslim fascist states fit that description perfectly." They do. That does not make the point any less pertinent does it? | |||
"From the Holocaust Museum... * Powerful and continuing nationalism * Disdain for human rights * Identification of enemies as a unifying cause * Supremacy of the military * Rampant sexism * Controlled mass media * Obsession with national security * Religion and government intertwined * Corporate power protected * Labour suppressed * Disdain for intellectuals & the arts * Obsession with crime & punishment * Rampant cronyism & corruption * Fraudulent elections Bearing in mind that this list was from decades ago and we live in a different world now, still it is interesting that a few on that list can already be ticked off and others going in the appropriate direction. We can add: * Supression of the press * Loss of judicial independence After all, the press are conspiring against the Donald, the U.S. Attorney General "betrayed" her country and US District Judge James Robart is now a "so called" judge "The story written in " It can't happen here" By Sinclair Lewis in 1935 is unfolding almost exactly at this minute. | |||
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"War is inevitable now." Are you lot pissed again | |||
"War is inevitable now.Are you lot pissed again " Do you read anything? Steve Bannon ( Trumps master) has over the years, advocated total war on Islam. He has also stated that War against China is inevitable. He pulls Trump's strings. | |||
"From the Holocaust Museum... * Powerful and continuing nationalism * Disdain for human rights * Identification of enemies as a unifying cause * Supremacy of the military * Rampant sexism * Controlled mass media * Obsession with national security * Religion and government intertwined * Corporate power protected * Labour suppressed * Disdain for intellectuals & the arts * Obsession with crime & punishment * Rampant cronyism & corruption * Fraudulent elections Bearing in mind that this list was from decades ago and we live in a different world now, still it is interesting that a few on that list can already be ticked off and others going in the appropriate direction. We can add: * Supression of the press * Loss of judicial independence After all, the press are conspiring against the Donald, the U.S. Attorney General "betrayed" her country and US District Judge James Robart is now a "so called" judge "Next think these people will calling Judges and defenders of the law "anti democratic" or even "enemies of the people". | |||
"From the Holocaust Museum... * Powerful and continuing nationalism * Disdain for human rights * Identification of enemies as a unifying cause * Supremacy of the military * Rampant sexism * Controlled mass media * Obsession with national security * Religion and government intertwined * Corporate power protected * Labour suppressed * Disdain for intellectuals & the arts * Obsession with crime & punishment * Rampant cronyism & corruption * Fraudulent elections Bearing in mind that this list was from decades ago and we live in a different world now, still it is interesting that a few on that list can already be ticked off and others going in the appropriate direction. We can add: * Supression of the press * Loss of judicial independence After all, the press are conspiring against the Donald, the U.S. Attorney General "betrayed" her country and US District Judge James Robart is now a "so called" judge
Next think these people will calling Judges and defenders of the law "anti democratic" or even "enemies of the people". "It's not just the US ; UK has already done it. | |||
"From the Holocaust Museum... * Powerful and continuing nationalism * Disdain for human rights * Identification of enemies as a unifying cause * Supremacy of the military * Rampant sexism * Controlled mass media * Obsession with national security * Religion and government intertwined * Corporate power protected * Labour suppressed * Disdain for intellectuals & the arts * Obsession with crime & punishment * Rampant cronyism & corruption * Fraudulent elections Bearing in mind that this list was from decades ago and we live in a different world now, still it is interesting that a few on that list can already be ticked off and others going in the appropriate direction. We can add: * Supression of the press * Loss of judicial independence After all, the press are conspiring against the Donald, the U.S. Attorney General "betrayed" her country and US District Judge James Robart is now a "so called" judge
Next think these people will calling Judges and defenders of the law "anti democratic" or even "enemies of the people". "No,anti democratic will likely still be reserved, for the people who fail to accept the democratic vote. . No matter how vigorously, the Remainers claim not to be Anti democratic, A more perfect example would be hard to find. | |||
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"Why do we never see threads about warning Signs for Emerging Communism ????" Because communism is not re-emerging. In fact it has disappeared. | |||
"Why do we never see threads about warning Signs for Emerging Communism ???? Because communism is not re-emerging. In fact it has disappeared. " Good !!! But my point is thuer would be silence on here if it were !!! | |||
"Why do we never see threads about warning Signs for Emerging Communism ???? Because communism is not re-emerging. In fact it has disappeared. Good !!! But my point is thuer would be silence on here if it were !!! " I doubt it very much; There would be equal uproar. | |||
"Why do we never see threads about warning Signs for Emerging Communism ???? Because communism is not re-emerging. In fact it has disappeared. Good !!! But my point is thuer would be silence on here if it were !!! I doubt it very much; There would be equal uproar." But I don't think thier would be ? I think this is mainly a Liberal left forum  | |||
"Why do we never see threads about warning Signs for Emerging Communism ???? Because communism is not re-emerging. In fact it has disappeared. Good !!! But my point is thuer would be silence on here if it were !!! I doubt it very much; There would be equal uproar. But I don't think thier would be ? I think this is mainly a Liberal left forum "Communism is not liberal. There are plenty of right wing and intolerant views expressed in this forum so I don't think that assertion holds true. | |||
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" No,anti democratic will likely still be reserved, for the people who fail to accept the democratic vote. . No matter how vigorously, the Remainers claim not to be Anti democratic, A more perfect example would be hard to find. " Well, actually the judges in the Article 50 case were branded as anti-democratic. Is an independent judiciary anti-democratic? If a government is elected does that mean that there should be no opposition for five years whilst it does whatever it wants? Is that how democracy functions? Why is a referendum result based on a 4% margin any different? Just for the record: The Ukip leader speaks to the Mirror’s Associate Editor Kevin Maguire and warns that a '52-48 result would be unfinished business' https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/nigel-farage-wants-second-referendum-7985017.amp You're right. Providence is a strange thing | |||
" No,anti democratic will likely still be reserved, for the people who fail to accept the democratic vote. . No matter how vigorously, the Remainers claim not to be Anti democratic, A more perfect example would be hard to find. Well, actually the judges in the Article 50 case were branded as anti-democratic. Is an independent judiciary anti-democratic? If a government is elected does that mean that there should be no opposition for five years whilst it does whatever it wants? Is that how democracy functions? Why is a referendum result based on a 4% margin any different? Just for the record: The Ukip leader speaks to the Mirror’s Associate Editor Kevin Maguire and warns that a '52-48 result would be unfinished business' https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/nigel-farage-wants-second-referendum-7985017.amp You're right. Providence is a strange thing "
Anti-democratic-opposed to the principles or practice of democracy.
.
To be honest Andy,I give very little credence,to anything Nigel farage says. | |||
" No,anti democratic will likely still be reserved, for the people who fail to accept the democratic vote. . No matter how vigorously, the Remainers claim not to be Anti democratic, A more perfect example would be hard to find. Well, actually the judges in the Article 50 case were branded as anti-democratic. Is an independent judiciary anti-democratic? If a government is elected does that mean that there should be no opposition for five years whilst it does whatever it wants? Is that how democracy functions? Why is a referendum result based on a 4% margin any different? Just for the record: The Ukip leader speaks to the Mirror’s Associate Editor Kevin Maguire and warns that a '52-48 result would be unfinished business' https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/nigel-farage-wants-second-referendum-7985017.amp You're right. Providence is a strange thing "Funny though isn't it that the referendum in Wales on devolution in 1997 had a much smaller margin I think the winning side had only 50.3% to the losers on 49.7% yet that result was accepted without question. As Nigel Evans MP pointed out in the Brexit debate in parliament last week MP's got on with the Job of implementing the decision of the Welsh people and the Welsh people accepted the result. The turnout for the referendum in Wales in 1997 was only 50.1% much smaller than the high turnout of 72.2% in the EU referendum (biggest turnout for any vote in the last 25-30 years). Why should this EU referendum be any different to the Welsh referendum? There was none of this bitching and moaning and wailing and knashing of teeth from the losing side in Wales, they accepted the result gracefully on a much smaller margin of victory and a much smaller turnout. Remainers are just like the SNP in Scotland, sore anti democratic losers! Also the margin of victory in the EU referendum was 1 and a half million people. Leave got one and a half million more votes than Remain, that is not a small margin and the Brexit vote of 17.5 million votes is the biggest vote for anything ever in the history of the UK. | |||
" Well, actually the judges in the Article 50 case were branded as anti-democratic. Is an independent judiciary anti-democratic? If a government is elected does that mean that there should be no opposition for five years whilst it does whatever it wants? Is that how democracy functions? Why is a referendum result based on a 4% margin any different? " The Farage quote was amusing for the display of cognitive dissonance that it generates
Please feel free to address the more pertinent points too  | |||
"Why do we never see threads about warning Signs for Emerging Communism ???? Because communism is not re-emerging. In fact it has disappeared. Good !!! But my point is thuer would be silence on here if it were !!! I doubt it very much; There would be equal uproar. But I don't think thier would be ? I think this is mainly a Liberal left forum
Communism is not liberal.
There are plenty of right wing and intolerant views expressed in this forum so I don't think that assertion holds true."Some ! But a minority , not that that makes it Right either , excuse the Pun
Tho I think the Word Libersl has morgen into Non Liberal half the time now ! | |||
"From the Holocaust Museum... * Powerful and continuing nationalism * Disdain for human rights * Identification of enemies as a unifying cause * Supremacy of the military * Rampant sexism * Controlled mass media * Obsession with national security * Religion and government intertwined * Corporate power protected * Labour suppressed * Disdain for intellectuals & the arts * Obsession with crime & punishment * Rampant cronyism & corruption * Fraudulent elections Bearing in mind that this list was from decades ago and we live in a different world now, still it is interesting that a few on that list can already be ticked off and others going in the appropriate direction. We can add: * Supression of the press * Loss of judicial independence " We can also add: * Decline in democratic values and the refusal of the population to accept legitimate democratic votes and outcomes. | |||
"You really compare Trump to Hitler serious "Ronald Reagan was also compared to Hitler by some sections of the Media when he was elected, turned out to be a great President. | |||
"War is inevitable now." Lol, have you been living in a cave cut off from the world since you were born or something? There has always been war. | |||
"From the Holocaust Museum... * Powerful and continuing nationalism * Disdain for human rights * Identification of enemies as a unifying cause * Supremacy of the military * Rampant sexism * Controlled mass media * Obsession with national security * Religion and government intertwined * Corporate power protected * Labour suppressed * Disdain for intellectuals & the arts * Obsession with crime & punishment * Rampant cronyism & corruption * Fraudulent elections Bearing in mind that this list was from decades ago and we live in a different world now, still it is interesting that a few on that list can already be ticked off and others going in the appropriate direction. We can add: * Supression of the press * Loss of judicial independence After all, the press are conspiring against the Donald, the U.S. Attorney General "betrayed" her country and US District Judge James Robart is now a "so called" judge
Next think these people will calling Judges and defenders of the law "anti democratic" or even "enemies of the people". ""Weapons of mass reasoning" | |||
"From the Holocaust Museum... * Powerful and continuing nationalism * Disdain for human rights * Identification of enemies as a unifying cause * Supremacy of the military * Rampant sexism * Controlled mass media * Obsession with national security * Religion and government intertwined * Corporate power protected * Labour suppressed * Disdain for intellectuals & the arts * Obsession with crime & punishment * Rampant cronyism & corruption * Fraudulent elections Bearing in mind that this list was from decades ago and we live in a different world now, still it is interesting that a few on that list can already be ticked off and others going in the appropriate direction. We can add: * Supression of the press * Loss of judicial independence We can also add: * Decline in democratic values and the refusal of the population to accept legitimate democratic votes and outcomes. " Refer to controlled mass media above 
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" Some ! But a minority , not that that makes it Right either , excuse the Pun
Tho I think the Word Libersl has morgen into Non Liberal half the time now !"Non-liberal left wing opinions are no more prevalent than right,wing ones on here. Your periods your own, as is mine. Neither of us can claim objectivity. Lots of flavours in between. I think this reflects society at large. I hope so. | |||
" Well, actually the judges in the Article 50 case were branded as anti-democratic. Is an independent judiciary anti-democratic? If a government is elected does that mean that there should be no opposition for five years whilst it does whatever it wants? Is that how democracy functions? Why is a referendum result based on a 4% margin any different? The Farage quote was amusing for the display of cognitive dissonance that it generates
Please feel free to address the more pertinent points too "Tum te tum. In your own time. | |||
"From the Holocaust Museum... * Powerful and continuing nationalism * Disdain for human rights * Identification of enemies as a unifying cause * Supremacy of the military * Rampant sexism * Controlled mass media * Obsession with national security * Religion and government intertwined * Corporate power protected * Labour suppressed * Disdain for intellectuals & the arts * Obsession with crime & punishment * Rampant cronyism & corruption * Fraudulent elections Bearing in mind that this list was from decades ago and we live in a different world now, still it is interesting that a few on that list can already be ticked off and others going in the appropriate direction. We can add: * Supression of the press * Loss of judicial independence After all, the press are conspiring against the Donald, the U.S. Attorney General "betrayed" her country and US District Judge James Robart is now a "so called" judge
Next think these people will calling Judges and defenders of the law "anti democratic" or even "enemies of the people".
"Weapons of mass reasoning""I don't follow. Could you clarify as I have no idea if I should agree or disagree or just remain perplexed | |||
" Some ! But a minority , not that that makes it Right either , excuse the Pun
Tho I think the Word Libersl has morgen into Non Liberal half the time now !
Non-liberal left wing opinions are no more prevalent than right,wing ones on here.
Your periods your own, as is mine. Neither of us can claim objectivity.
Lots of flavours in between.
I think this reflects society at large. I hope so."I'm not including you in this to be fair | |||
" Well, actually the judges in the Article 50 case were branded as anti-democratic. Is an independent judiciary anti-democratic? If a government is elected does that mean that there should be no opposition for five years whilst it does whatever it wants? Is that how democracy functions? Why is a referendum result based on a 4% margin any different? The Farage quote was amusing for the display of cognitive dissonance that it generates
Please feel free to address the more pertinent points too
Tum te tum.
In your own time.
"The pink blushing emoticon is very apt. When are you going to realise no one owes you any kind of reply on here, you do this on multiple threads, you are embarrassing yourself. | |||
"From the Holocaust Museum... * Powerful and continuing nationalism * Disdain for human rights * Identification of enemies as a unifying cause * Supremacy of the military * Rampant sexism * Controlled mass media * Obsession with national security * Religion and government intertwined * Corporate power protected * Labour suppressed * Disdain for intellectuals & the arts * Obsession with crime & punishment * Rampant cronyism & corruption * Fraudulent elections Bearing in mind that this list was from decades ago and we live in a different world now, still it is interesting that a few on that list can already be ticked off and others going in the appropriate direction. We can add: * Supression of the press * Loss of judicial independence After all, the press are conspiring against the Donald, the U.S. Attorney General "betrayed" her country and US District Judge James Robart is now a "so called" judge
Next think these people will calling Judges and defenders of the law "anti democratic" or even "enemies of the people".
"Weapons of mass reasoning"
I don't follow. Could you clarify as I have no idea if I should agree or disagree or just remain perplexed "Like the myth of weapons of mass distruction The judges being arbiters of reasoning, fairness and objectivity (in principle at least) | |||
" Well, actually the judges in the Article 50 case were branded as anti-democratic. Is an independent judiciary anti-democratic? If a government is elected does that mean that there should be no opposition for five years whilst it does whatever it wants? Is that how democracy functions? Why is a referendum result based on a 4% margin any different? The Farage quote was amusing for the display of cognitive dissonance that it generates
Please feel free to address the more pertinent points too
Tum te tum.
In your own time.
The pink blushing emoticon is very apt. When are you going to realise no one owes you any kind of reply on here, you do this on multiple threads, you are embarrassing yourself. "Nobody does. Great answer. Very clear. Thank you | |||
" Like the myth of weapons of mass distruction The judges being arbiters of reasoning, fairness and objectivity (in principle at least) " If the current process is unacceptable, then how should legal decisions be made? | |||
" Well, actually the judges in the Article 50 case were branded as anti-democratic. Is an independent judiciary anti-democratic? If a government is elected does that mean that there should be no opposition for five years whilst it does whatever it wants? Is that how democracy functions? Why is a referendum result based on a 4% margin any different? The Farage quote was amusing for the display of cognitive dissonance that it generates
Please feel free to address the more pertinent points too
Tum te tum.
In your own time.
The pink blushing emoticon is very apt. When are you going to realise no one owes you any kind of reply on here, you do this on multiple threads, you are embarrassing yourself.
Nobody does.
Great answer. Very clear.
Thank you "Maybe not clear enough. It's attention seeking, cringeworthy, in a 'look at me I'm so important, everyone must reply to my posts' kind of way. | |||
" I think this reflects society at large. I hope so. I'm not including you in this to be fair "As you can see, not everyone agrees with you on this point
The reality is that everyone's view lie on a continuum. How acceptable they are to you are relative to your own outlook.
Everyone sees themselves as the hero. Nobody thinks that they are the bad guy. If that means that you have absolute certainty that you are right then anyone who questions that view is wrong and against you. This can only create conflict as sweeping generalisations about racism or hating your country are used.
None of this helps. A compromise is needed to create a solution for things that everyone cares about.
So, I try not to accuse anyone of anything. Perhaps I fail. I can't really judge because that's down to individual perceptions. I do ask questions. Perhaps incessantly
I do that to try and understand what the reasoning is behind a point of view that I don't understand. How else can I find out? This can be challenging particularly as I ask for a process or mechanism to reach an outcome rather than an assertion because that's the hard part. Everyone knows what they want, it's far harder to identify how to get it.
Some people engage. Some don't | |||
"Why do we never see threads about warning Signs for Emerging Communism ???? Because communism is not re-emerging. In fact it has disappeared. Good !!! But my point is thuer would be silence on here if it were !!! I doubt it very much; There would be equal uproar. But I don't think thier would be ? I think this is mainly a Liberal left forum
Communism is not liberal.
There are plenty of right wing and intolerant views expressed in this forum so I don't think that assertion holds true."You can be non-liberal, left and also not a Communist, but I think thats news to some. Also; if you've read the politics forum and think it is "liberal left" leaning, then you must be coming from either very far to t he right, or not actually know what the liberal left is. | |||
I would say the forum has a surprisingly alt.right element.Some neo liberalism.A few tree huggers.A few lefty liberals.The rest down the middle.Pretty mixed. | |||
" The pink blushing emoticon is very apt. When are you going to realise no one owes you any kind of reply on here, you do this on multiple threads, you are embarrassing yourself. Nobody does. Great answer. Very clear. Thank you
Maybe not clear enough. It's attention seeking, cringeworthy, in a 'look at me I'm so important, everyone must reply to my posts' kind of way. "It seems that you personally dislike me. I don't believe that I've ever been rude or accused you of having any extreme views. That's a matter for you, not me. You have spent some time criticising me personally but not addressing the questions pertinent to the thread. You are not the only person who responds to polite questions in this way. You can say that you know exactly how to answer but you don't want to respond to the likes of me. You could stick out your tongue and blow a raspberry too. I can only assume that you are unable to answer. Which is fine. | |||
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"When we have had a period of middle ground, it follows that extremism on both sides will rise up and try and claim the next period. " Do you think it's because we forget and start sweating the small stuff until we break everything and then remember about the big stuff again? | |||
"When we have had a period of middle ground, it follows that extremism on both sides will rise up and try and claim the next period. " You're right.Its cyclical.I think what comes after the next 8 years of trump and the new right will be very interesting.The right will push the world politics to a tipping point. | |||
" Well, actually the judges in the Article 50 case were branded as anti-democratic. Is an independent judiciary anti-democratic? If a government is elected does that mean that there should be no opposition for five years whilst it does whatever it wants? Is that how democracy functions? Why is a referendum result based on a 4% margin any different? The Farage quote was amusing for the display of cognitive dissonance that it generates
Please feel free to address the more pertinent points too
Tum te tum.
In your own time.
The pink blushing emoticon is very apt. When are you going to realise no one owes you any kind of reply on here, you do this on multiple threads, you are embarrassing yourself.
Nobody does.
Great answer. Very clear.
Thank you
Maybe not clear enough. It's attention seeking, cringeworthy, in a 'look at me I'm so important, everyone must reply to my posts' kind of way. "Someone needs a mirror...  | |||
" Well, actually the judges in the Article 50 case were branded as anti-democratic. Is an independent judiciary anti-democratic? If a government is elected does that mean that there should be no opposition for five years whilst it does whatever it wants? Is that how democracy functions? Why is a referendum result based on a 4% margin any different? The Farage quote was amusing for the display of cognitive dissonance that it generates
Please feel free to address the more pertinent points too
Tum te tum.
In your own time.
The pink blushing emoticon is very apt. When are you going to realise no one owes you any kind of reply on here, you do this on multiple threads, you are embarrassing yourself.
Nobody does.
Great answer. Very clear.
Thank you
Maybe not clear enough. It's attention seeking, cringeworthy, in a 'look at me I'm so important, everyone must reply to my posts' kind of way.
Someone needs a mirror...
"In my on going mission to get attention and embarrass myself I've noticed that there are still no answers though | |||
"Why do we never see threads about warning Signs for Emerging Communism ???? Because communism is not re-emerging. In fact it has disappeared. Good !!! But my point is thuer would be silence on here if it were !!! I doubt it very much; There would be equal uproar. But I don't think thier would be ? I think this is mainly a Liberal left forum
Communism is not liberal.
There are plenty of right wing and intolerant views expressed in this forum so I don't think that assertion holds true."And being liberal does not necessarily mean you're left of centre. Take a look at the Dutch VVD party, which is a Liberal party, if you want to know how right wing liberals can actually be. Also, don't forget that the Conservative Party's full name is actually the "Conservative and Liberal Unionist Party". | |||
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"Why do we never see threads about warning Signs for Emerging Communism ???? Because communism is not re-emerging. In fact it has disappeared. Good !!! But my point is thuer would be silence on here if it were !!! I doubt it very much; There would be equal uproar. But I don't think thier would be ? I think this is mainly a Liberal left forum
Communism is not liberal.
There are plenty of right wing and intolerant views expressed in this forum so I don't think that assertion holds true.
And being liberal does not necessarily mean you're left of centre. Take a look at the Dutch VVD party, which is a Liberal party, if you want to know how right wing liberals can actually be. Also, don't forget that the Conservative Party's full name is actually the "Conservative and Liberal Unionist Party".
"Depends on your definition. Liberal here (Netherlands) means you have the liberty to live your life no matter your status. Which is not communism, which forces people to be equal. So they are in fact two ends of the scale. VvD is liberal and conservative. They keep traditional ways or conserve the ways of running government. I'd say Tories are liberal conservatives. UKIP are left conservatives. Corbyn is left ... Not sure if they are progressive or conservatives. Not familiar with their policies. In fact there is no progressive party I know of in Britain. | |||
"Why do we never see threads about warning Signs for Emerging Communism ???? Because communism is not re-emerging. In fact it has disappeared. Good !!! But my point is thuer would be silence on here if it were !!! I doubt it very much; There would be equal uproar. But I don't think thier would be ? I think this is mainly a Liberal left forum
Communism is not liberal.
There are plenty of right wing and intolerant views expressed in this forum so I don't think that assertion holds true.
And being liberal does not necessarily mean you're left of centre. Take a look at the Dutch VVD party, which is a Liberal party, if you want to know how right wing liberals can actually be. Also, don't forget that the Conservative Party's full name is actually the "Conservative and Liberal Unionist Party".
Depends on your definition. Liberal here (Netherlands) means you have the liberty to live your life no matter your status. Which is not communism, which forces people to be equal.
So they are in fact two ends of the scale. VvD is liberal and conservative. They keep traditional ways or conserve the ways of running government. I'd say Tories are liberal conservatives. UKIP are left conservatives. Corbyn is left ... Not sure if they are progressive or conservatives. Not familiar with their policies.
In fact there is no progressive party I know of in Britain."Both the LidDems and Labour consider themselves Progressive but I would argue that only the LibDems actually are. In many ways the Labour Party is more conservative than the Conservative Party. | |||
"Why do we never see threads about warning Signs for Emerging Communism ???? Because communism is not re-emerging. In fact it has disappeared. Good !!! But my point is thuer would be silence on here if it were !!! I doubt it very much; There would be equal uproar. But I don't think thier would be ? I think this is mainly a Liberal left forum
Communism is not liberal.
There are plenty of right wing and intolerant views expressed in this forum so I don't think that assertion holds true.
And being liberal does not necessarily mean you're left of centre. Take a look at the Dutch VVD party, which is a Liberal party, if you want to know how right wing liberals can actually be. Also, don't forget that the Conservative Party's full name is actually the "Conservative and Liberal Unionist Party".
Depends on your definition. Liberal here (Netherlands) means you have the liberty to live your life no matter your status. Which is not communism, which forces people to be equal.
So they are in fact two ends of the scale. VvD is liberal and conservative. They keep traditional ways or conserve the ways of running government. I'd say Tories are liberal conservatives. UKIP are left conservatives. Corbyn is left ... Not sure if they are progressive or conservatives. Not familiar with their policies.
In fact there is no progressive party I know of in Britain.
Both the LidDems and Labour consider themselves Progressive but I would argue that only the LibDems actually are. In many ways the Labour Party is more conservative than the Conservative Party."Seeing how the Conservative party is willing to trash the constitution the Conservative party don't seem to be very conservative anymore. | |||
"Why do we never see threads about warning Signs for Emerging Communism ???? Because communism is not re-emerging. In fact it has disappeared. Good !!! But my point is thuer would be silence on here if it were !!! I doubt it very much; There would be equal uproar. But I don't think thier would be ? I think this is mainly a Liberal left forum
Communism is not liberal.
There are plenty of right wing and intolerant views expressed in this forum so I don't think that assertion holds true.
And being liberal does not necessarily mean you're left of centre. Take a look at the Dutch VVD party, which is a Liberal party, if you want to know how right wing liberals can actually be. Also, don't forget that the Conservative Party's full name is actually the "Conservative and Liberal Unionist Party".
Depends on your definition. Liberal here (Netherlands) means you have the liberty to live your life no matter your status. Which is not communism, which forces people to be equal.
So they are in fact two ends of the scale. VvD is liberal and conservative. They keep traditional ways or conserve the ways of running government. I'd say Tories are liberal conservatives. UKIP are left conservatives. Corbyn is left ... Not sure if they are progressive or conservatives. Not familiar with their policies.
In fact there is no progressive party I know of in Britain.
Both the LidDems and Labour consider themselves Progressive but I would argue that only the LibDems actually are. In many ways the Labour Party is more conservative than the Conservative Party.
Seeing how the Conservative party is willing to trash the constitution the Conservative party don't seem to be very conservative anymore."Certainly not progressive. Regressive? | |||
"From the Holocaust Museum... * Powerful and continuing nationalism * Disdain for human rights * Identification of enemies as a unifying cause * Supremacy of the military * Rampant sexism * Controlled mass media * Obsession with national security * Religion and government intertwined * Corporate power protected * Labour suppressed * Disdain for intellectuals & the arts * Obsession with crime & punishment * Rampant cronyism & corruption * Fraudulent elections Bearing in mind that this list was from decades ago and we live in a different world now, still it is interesting that a few on that list can already be ticked off and others going in the appropriate direction." Sounds like China & Russia to me | |||
"From the Holocaust Museum... * Powerful and continuing nationalism * Disdain for human rights * Identification of enemies as a unifying cause * Supremacy of the military * Rampant sexism * Controlled mass media * Obsession with national security * Religion and government intertwined * Corporate power protected * Labour suppressed * Disdain for intellectuals & the arts * Obsession with crime & punishment * Rampant cronyism & corruption * Fraudulent elections Bearing in mind that this list was from decades ago and we live in a different world now, still it is interesting that a few on that list can already be ticked off and others going in the appropriate direction. Sounds like China & Russia to me "Some are pro Russian. Although I know many Russians who became Dutch to be part of the EU. So some Russians are pro EU. | |||
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