FabSwingers.com > Forums > Politics > Trump to order a temporary ban to refugees

Trump to order a temporary ban to refugees

By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

I heard on the news this morning that trump is marking a draconian shift in US policy, he issued an executive order on friday that will deny syrian refugees and immigrants from certain muslim-majority countries entry. UN urges him to let them in, what is your view on it?

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By *bandjam91Couple over a year ago

London

"I heard on the news this morning that trump is marking a draconian shift in US policy, he issued an executive order on friday that will deny syrian refugees and immigrants from certain muslim-majority countries entry. UN urges him to let them in, what is your view on it?"

I think it's disgusting, particularly as he issued it on Holocaust Memorial Day

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 28/01/17 14:41:00]

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

I think it's disgusting, particularly as he issued it on Holocaust Memorial Day"
Yes and think the same as it was on the same day as the memorial.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 28/01/17 14:42:32]

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I think it's disgusting, particularly as he issued it on Holocaust Memorial DayYes and think the same as it was on the same day as the memorial."
..president Carter done the same thing with Iranian students.. No outcry then.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

How would a muslim refugee end up in America anyway?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It's just cheap shots at things that won't cost the USA in order to placate some people who voted for him... Like all the other bullshit mandates he's done so far.

You gotta keep your die hard fans happy when you've only got a small base of fans

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"How would a muslim refugee end up in America anyway?"
. From the camps in Jordan same way they end up here or Australia

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

its not just refugees... its everyone from those countries.....

its basically the beginning of his muslim ban by the back door.......

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"its not just refugees... its everyone from those countries.....

its basically the beginning of his muslim ban by the back door......."
.

He's not done Saudi Arabia though

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"How would a muslim refugee end up in America anyway?"
..the last president invited them..well not all of them.. He left the Christians to their fate.

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"How would a muslim refugee end up in America anyway?"

actually it is a more stingent system than the on the uk and the unhcr use... and it takes 3-4 years to get thru the entire process......

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"It's just cheap shots at things that won't cost the USA in order to placate some people who voted for him... Like all the other bullshit mandates he's done so far.

You gotta keep your die hard fans happy when you've only got a small base of fans"
..hardly a small Base..he won the election.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"It's just cheap shots at things that won't cost the USA in order to placate some people who voted for him... Like all the other bullshit mandates he's done so far.

You gotta keep your die hard fans happy when you've only got a small base of fans..hardly a small Base..he won the election."
.

Not with die hard fans he didn't, five will get you ten half the people who voted for him would have voted for any donkey except Hillary

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Isn't it just a temporary ban until they get more stingent controls in place to keep people who may be a threat out?

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

question time....

from the countries that trump has now banned their citizens from entering the us.... how many of their citizens since 1975 have been linked to any attack on us citizens?

i'll tell you in 15 minutes......

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"question time....

from the countries that trump has now banned their citizens from entering the us.... how many of their citizens since 1975 have been linked to any attack on us citizens?

i'll tell you in 15 minutes......"
...now look at the attacks in Europe.. The Americans do watch the news.

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"question time....

from the countries that trump has now banned their citizens from entering the us.... how many of their citizens since 1975 have been linked to any attack on us citizens?

i'll tell you in 15 minutes.........now look at the attacks in Europe.. The Americans do watch the news."

cool....

So it was moroccan's involved in the madrid bombing, belgians and french in the paris attacks, a tunisian in the nice attack, and 4 brits for the july 7th attacks.....

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"question time....

from the countries that trump has now banned their citizens from entering the us.... how many of their citizens since 1975 have been linked to any attack on us citizens?

i'll tell you in 15 minutes.........now look at the attacks in Europe.. The Americans do watch the news."
That is right and they have probably seen how it went in sweden.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"question time....

from the countries that trump has now banned their citizens from entering the us.... how many of their citizens since 1975 have been linked to any attack on us citizens?

i'll tell you in 15 minutes.........now look at the attacks in Europe.. The Americans do watch the news.

cool....

So it was moroccan's involved in the madrid bombing, belgians and french in the paris attacks, a tunisian in the nice attack, and 4 brits for the july 7th attacks....."
...and who was doing the raping and murdering.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Maybe he's doing it as revenge against Madonna. Stop her adopting more children

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"and who was doing the raping and murdering. "

the answer to that is not people from the countries of the people who he has put the ban on..... thanks for answering my question!!!!

all those countries on the list DO have something in common though.... none of them have any trump properties!

there are countries where attackers have come from that do have trump business interests in them... none of them are on the list !

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Basically a Trump is actually doing what he said he would do.

Building a wall

Putting a stop on certain people entering "until we know wtf is going on"

Replacing "Obama care"

Putting a UK trade deal at the front of the line (not the back of the queue as Obama was fed by Cameron)

Taxing US companies who outsource to cheap foreign labour etc....

While we may not agree with some of his actions these are all things he said he would do.

A politician actually doing what he promised to do....refreshing change!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"and who was doing the raping and murdering.

the answer to that is not people from the countries of the people who he has put the ban on..... thanks for answering my question!!!!

all those countries on the list DO have something in common though.... none of them have any trump properties!

there are countries where attackers have come from that do have trump business interests in them... none of them are on the list !"
..it was a Syrian refugee who raped a 10 years old boy in Germany.

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By *oo hotCouple over a year ago

North West

Putting Iran on the list only illustrates his ignorance. Shia's have not committed a single atrocity in the West and the fact they are being targeted because they represent a threat is absurd and will only flame suspicion and hostility.

Trump's "Take the oil" message by the way is being used very effectively in Iraq by groups looking to destabilise the country. The unintended consequence of which is to place the US forces in Iraq under threat of attack.

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By *hetalkingstoveMan over a year ago

London

"and who was doing the raping and murdering.

the answer to that is not people from the countries of the people who he has put the ban on..... thanks for answering my question!!!!

all those countries on the list DO have something in common though.... none of them have any trump properties!

there are countries where attackers have come from that do have trump business interests in them... none of them are on the list !..it was a Syrian refugee who raped a 10 years old boy in Germany. "

And?

How many British people do you think have gone to Germany and committed crimes in the last year? I'm guessing it's more than one.

Better ban all people from going anywhere, I guess.

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By *obka3Couple over a year ago

bournemouth

"Basically a Trump is actually doing what he said he would do.

Building a wall

Putting a stop on certain people entering "until we know wtf is going on"

Replacing "Obama care"

Putting a UK trade deal at the front of the line (not the back of the queue as Obama was fed by Cameron)

Taxing US companies who outsource to cheap foreign labour etc....

While we may not agree with some of his actions these are all things he said he would do.

A politician actually doing what he promised to do....refreshing change!"

unlike obama who said one of his first tasks would be to shut down guantanamo bay and didnt

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"question time....

from the countries that trump has now banned their citizens from entering the us.... how many of their citizens since 1975 have been linked to any attack on us citizens?

i'll tell you in 15 minutes......"

makes you wonder why they would want to go there anyway. How many US citizens are murdered by US citizens every year? Its worse than most 3rd world countries and Obama made it even worse. Whats it like in Chicago these days?

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By *oxychick35Couple over a year ago

thornaby

He is basically doing wot he sed he wud do so I don't see why ppl r shocked pity more politicians don't do the same it's only temporary anyway

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By *hetalkingstoveMan over a year ago

London

"Basically a Trump is actually doing what he said he would do.

Building a wall

Putting a stop on certain people entering "until we know wtf is going on"

Replacing "Obama care"

Putting a UK trade deal at the front of the line (not the back of the queue as Obama was fed by Cameron)

Taxing US companies who outsource to cheap foreign labour etc....

While we may not agree with some of his actions these are all things he said he would do.

A politician actually doing what he promised to do....refreshing change!"

Trump hasn't 'replaced Obamacare'. He's taken some steps to counter it but the republicans are still to even propose what they are replacing it with.

He hasn't put Britain at the front of anything. He made some vaguely positive sounds and Michael Gove leapt on them and drew conclusions.

He hasn't built a wall. He's signed some papers. Let's see how much actually gets built and if Mexico ever pay a dime for it before we consider Trump as being true to his word.

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By *oxychick35Couple over a year ago

thornaby

So wot about him banning I migrants from certain country's didn't he say he was Guna do that then ????

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By *oftfocusMan over a year ago

EDINBURGH

"......and who was doing the raping and murdering."

Generally, it would be men of all colours,races and creeds.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

My view, he can do what he wants, he is their president they voted for him. If you do not like it, the only thing you can do boycott American goods and products. So make a choice, do not buy American stuff, but the problem is how much of you stop buying from American owned companies such as Coca Cola or Pepsi or McDonald's, Pizza Hut, ben and jerrys, Burger King, KFC, TFI's, or watch American made movies, or electronics, literally anything which is American? I guess not!

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By *enard ArgenteMan over a year ago

London and France

"My view, he can do what he wants, he is their president they voted for him. If you do not like it, the only thing you can do boycott American goods and products. So make a choice, do not buy American stuff, but the problem is how much of you stop buying from American owned companies such as Coca Cola or Pepsi or McDonald's, Pizza Hut, ben and jerrys, Burger King, KFC, TFI's, or watch American made movies, or electronics, literally anything which is American? I guess not! "

It's not difficult

I never consume Coca Cola or Pepsi or McDonald's, Pizza Hut, ben and jerrys, Burger King, KFC, TFI's, I don't know anyone who does, even in UK.

Seldom watch American movies or TV shows; they are mostly crap anyway.

My electronics are Japanese/ European; with the exception of iPhones and iPads which are an American company; ( though the stuff is actually made in China).

My cars and motorcycles are European;

In fact I can't think of a single thing that I have that is American;

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It's not difficult

I never consume Coca Cola or Pepsi or McDonald's, Pizza Hut, ben and jerrys, Burger King, KFC, TFI's, I don't know anyone who does, even in UK.

Seldom watch American movies or TV shows; they are mostly crap anyway.

My electronics are Japanese/ European; with the exception of iPhones and iPads which are an American company; ( though the stuff is actually made in China).

My cars and motorcycles are European;

In fact I can't think of a single thing that I have that is American;

"
hardly any of any of those things are imported from the US anyhow most of them are made in France or the UK if you consume them there and Ben and Jerry's is a subsidiary of Unilever I think and that Anglo Dutch... So munch away

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By *enard ArgenteMan over a year ago

London and France

It's not difficult

I never consume Coca Cola or Pepsi or McDonald's, Pizza Hut, ben and jerrys, Burger King, KFC, TFI's, I don't know anyone who does, even in UK.

Seldom watch American movies or TV shows; they are mostly crap anyway.

My electronics are Japanese/ European; with the exception of iPhones and iPads which are an American company; ( though the stuff is actually made in China).

My cars and motorcycles are European;

In fact I can't think of a single thing that I have that is American;

hardly any of any of those things are imported from the US anyhow most of them are made in France or the UK if you consume them there and Ben and Jerry's is a subsidiary of Unilever I think and that Anglo Dutch... So munch away

Very true;

Well most food can't be imported from US because it doesn't meet safe food standards;

Electrical good are useless;

Etc etc

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It's not difficult

I never consume Coca Cola or Pepsi or McDonald's, Pizza Hut, ben and jerrys, Burger King, KFC, TFI's, I don't know anyone who does, even in UK.

Seldom watch American movies or TV shows; they are mostly crap anyway.

My electronics are Japanese/ European; with the exception of iPhones and iPads which are an American company; ( though the stuff is actually made in China).

My cars and motorcycles are European;

In fact I can't think of a single thing that I have that is American;

Very true;

Well most food can't be imported from US because it doesn't meet safe food standards;

Electrical good are useless;

Etc etc

"
.

That's why they call it globalisation

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By *enard ArgenteMan over a year ago

London and France

It's not difficult

I never consume Coca Cola or Pepsi or McDonald's, Pizza Hut, ben and jerrys, Burger King, KFC, TFI's, I don't know anyone who does, even in UK.

Seldom watch American movies or TV shows; they are mostly crap anyway.

My electronics are Japanese/ European; with the exception of iPhones and iPads which are an American company; ( though the stuff is actually made in China).

My cars and motorcycles are European;

In fact I can't think of a single thing that I have that is American;

Very true;

Well most food can't be imported from US because it doesn't meet safe food standards;

Electrical good are useless;

Etc etc

That's why they call it globalisation

Except most US produced goods are not globalised, since they use completely different ( inferior) safety standards and other standards to the rest of the world;

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It's not difficult

I never consume Coca Cola or Pepsi or McDonald's, Pizza Hut, ben and jerrys, Burger King, KFC, TFI's, I don't know anyone who does, even in UK.

Seldom watch American movies or TV shows; they are mostly crap anyway.

My electronics are Japanese/ European; with the exception of iPhones and iPads which are an American company; ( though the stuff is actually made in China).

My cars and motorcycles are European;

In fact I can't think of a single thing that I have that is American;

Very true;

Well most food can't be imported from US because it doesn't meet safe food standards;

Electrical good are useless;

Etc etc

That's why they call it globalisation

Except most US produced goods are not globalised, since they use completely different ( inferior) safety standards and other standards to the rest of the world; "
.

They don't need to they've got a great big domestic market, they choose to have shit standards so they get cheap goods... And then if you want them even cheaper you can make them in China and lower the standards even more.

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By *enard ArgenteMan over a year ago

London and France

It's not difficult

I never consume Coca Cola or Pepsi or McDonald's, Pizza Hut, ben and jerrys, Burger King, KFC, TFI's, I don't know anyone who does, even in UK.

Seldom watch American movies or TV shows; they are mostly crap anyway.

My electronics are Japanese/ European; with the exception of iPhones and iPads which are an American company; ( though the stuff is actually made in China).

My cars and motorcycles are European;

In fact I can't think of a single thing that I have that is American;

Very true;

Well most food can't be imported from US because it doesn't meet safe food standards;

Electrical good are useless;

Etc etc

That's why they call it globalisation

Except most US produced goods are not globalised, since they use completely different ( inferior) safety standards and other standards to the rest of the world; .

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By *LCCCouple over a year ago

Cambridge

It's not just refugees, or new visa applicants. Existing visa holders, US residents who happened to be out of the country can no longer return.

Imagine if you were seperated from your home, your family, your work, your studies and your community.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It seems there is much support for this in the forum.Would the same people who support this measure like a similar ban on the same countries citzens traveling to the UK.?

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By *illwill69uMan over a year ago

moston

"It seems there is much support for this in the forum.Would the same people who support this measure like a similar ban on the same countries citzens traveling to the UK.? "

Yep I think they would, and for exactly the same reasons...

Although like donny the fart they will not come out and proudly own their reason.

I wonder why?

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By *LCCCouple over a year ago

Cambridge

It also covers people with dual citizenship like a Tory MP who has British and Iraqi citizenship who is now not allowed to go to the US.

Mo Farah has UK and Somali citizenship, and works/trains in the US. Unfortunately for him, he is visiting Ethiopia and then competing in the UK. He will be unable to return to the US where he lives and works.

Does that sound fair to anyone?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"It also covers people with dual citizenship like a Tory MP who has British and Iraqi citizenship who is now not allowed to go to the US.

Does that sound fair to anyone? "

yes

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"It also covers people with dual citizenship like a Tory MP who has British and Iraqi citizenship who is now not allowed to go to the US.

Does that sound fair to anyone?

yes"

and congrats we have just hit a new low even for the forums.......

bravo!!!!!

i don't suppose you would know anyone who has been affected by this to take such a flippant view..... unfortunately i do!!! and now they are going to have to tell their kids the disney trip they were planning to florida for easter is off....

so cheerlead and troll as much as you.... I am not even disgusted... i truely pity you.... i really really do

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By *oo hotCouple over a year ago

North West

"It also covers people with dual citizenship like a Tory MP who has British and Iraqi citizenship who is now not allowed to go to the US.

Does that sound fair to anyone?

yes"

Sad reflection of life today.

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By *illwill69uMan over a year ago

moston

"and congrats we have just hit a new low even for the forums.......

bravo!!!!!

so cheerlead and troll as much as you.... I am not even disgusted... i truely pity you.... i really really do"

Mario, don't take it to heart. Truth is every now and then people let their true bigoted selves show through in a single word. Just remember that post and every time they try to to be anything but the bigot they are remind everyone of how they really feel.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

sorry did not clarify,if the company is American owned boycott it.

Inferior products? Well when we leave the eu and if mayhem gets her way, we will be quaffing on the rubbish from that country!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I definately don't agree with his executive order, but he does need to take care of America, first. America is a fucked up place, in case some of you didnt know. I live in the City of Brotherly Love, does anyone know the crime rate in Philadelphia?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

A federal judge has stayed the deportation orders for people who have arrived from the countries affected with a valid visa. The stay is to last until a full review and hearing can be held in February. Thank you ACLU! It's only a temporary win, but I'll take it for now.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Before the shit starts, I didnt vote for that asshole. We didnt have much of a choice but my vote wasnt for him

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By *avidnsa69Man over a year ago

Essex

"It also covers people with dual citizenship like a Tory MP who has British and Iraqi citizenship who is now not allowed to go to the US.

Does that sound fair to anyone?

yes"

You have a bizarre view of fairness then.....

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Before the shit starts, I didnt vote for that asshole. We didnt have much of a choice but my vote wasnt for him"

well time of protest is over, it's time to resist, time to boycott life under trump.

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By *isandreTV/TS over a year ago

Durham

brexiters costing up to trump costing up to racists and nazis and white supremacists.

And they fucking protested they weren't the same.

Ha ha. Found out.

Anyone not bowing to their demands have been the subject of threats, insults and intimidation.

This is going to be a long war but in the end you are not only going to lose but you will be shown up for what you are and once again rejected. Hopefully you'll slink off for more than 70 years this time.

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By *illwill69uMan over a year ago

moston

"I definately don't agree with his executive order, but he does need to take care of America, first. America is a fucked up place, in case some of you didnt know. I live in the City of Brotherly Love, does anyone know the crime rate in Philadelphia?"

My brother lived in an apartment on Lake Shore Drive (Chicago) for 6 years, so I guess the love does not travel far from the city centre if it gets out of the apartment blocks that have 24 hr security...

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By *enard ArgenteMan over a year ago

London and France

But you don't " take care of America" by this sort of action;

America's problems are not terrorists ( that this measure won't affect anyway) , mor Mexican immigrants, or even drugs.

America's problems come from the separation of rich and poor, ( which is increasing, and which Trump and his millionaire buddies will increase), the continued race issues ( however much the US thinks it has civil rights, and equality; it doesn't;) it's there, mostly only slightly hidden, but often in plain view.

This bigoted white ( orange) man and his white millionaire backers won't do much to fix that either ( after all they can't afford to let down David Duke and his friends).

All this measure has done is to give the racists, bigots and suchlike more validation for their beliefs.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

He is President, he was voted in by the majority, he is entitled to decide who gets in and who doesn't,

if you don't like it, don't go to the usa, I will, I love the states, and think Trump is the best thing to happen in a long time

thumbs up to President trump

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

He is President, he was voted in by the majority, he is entitled to decide who gets in and who doesn't,

if you don't like it, don't go to the usa, I will, I love the states, and think Trump is the best thing to happen in a long time

thumbs up to President trump"

A judge has suspended deportations. TM has spoken against it since it affects Brits. Google are recalling their staff in case they get stuck.

Also I just travelled yesterday. The queues were horrendous and saw the extra checks for US flights. Haven't seen this since post 9/11 flights.

But the judge ruling shows the president is not above the law.

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By *enard ArgenteMan over a year ago

London and France

He is President, he was voted in by the majority, he is entitled to decide who gets in and who doesn't,

if you don't like it, don't go to the usa, I will, I love the states, and think Trump is the best thing to happen in a long time

thumbs up to President trump"

You would; you are a racist and a bigot.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"It also covers people with dual citizenship like a Tory MP who has British and Iraqi citizenship who is now not allowed to go to the US.

Does that sound fair to anyone?

yes"

Gone Fishing

You got a bite of everyone one of them shoal living creatures. What a haul

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Basically a Trump is actually doing what he said he would do.

Building a wall

Putting a stop on certain people entering "until we know wtf is going on"

Replacing "Obama care"

Putting a UK trade deal at the front of the line (not the back of the queue as Obama was fed by Cameron)

Taxing US companies who outsource to cheap foreign labour etc....

While we may not agree with some of his actions these are all things he said he would do.

A politician actually doing what he promised to do....refreshing change!

Trump hasn't 'replaced Obamacare'. He's taken some steps to counter it but the republicans are still to even propose what they are replacing it with.

He hasn't put Britain at the front of anything. He made some vaguely positive sounds and Michael Gove leapt on them and drew conclusions.

He hasn't built a wall. He's signed some papers. Let's see how much actually gets built and if Mexico ever pay a dime for it before we consider Trump as being true to his word. "

Clearly he hasn't started laying bricks yet [duh].......but it now has the go-ahead.

He has passed legislation to roll back "obamacare"....he always said they would need to find a workable replacement.

Why is anyone surprised about the travel ban...he said he would do it...and he has. (The courts may stop him...but that's not the point. The point is he is simply doing what he promised to do?)

We cannot sign any trade deals until we actually leave the EU in 2019...... but we can put the framework in place, and this is the first step to getting it started.

My point was simple. He is doing (as far as his powers allow) exactly what he said he would.

Can anyone recall many other politicians who have done this so plainly and quickly?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

If you dont agree with Trump it's time for some backlash. Dont buy anything american.Fuck them.Its easy.Put your disdain on your facebook status or on Twitter.That hate towards the usa will grow.Stand-up be counted otherwise dont complain.Fuck Emperor Trump and fuck the roaches who support him.

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By *hetalkingstoveMan over a year ago

London

My point was simple. He is doing (as far as his powers allow) exactly what he said he would.

Can anyone recall many other politicians who have done this so plainly and quickly?"

Yes, I understood your point. And my point was equally simple, that he hasn't actually done anything yet other than sign some papers. If you want to get excited about that, go ahead.

It is also very easy to appear to be fulfilling your promises when you make dramatic and outlandish ones. Rather harder to instantly fulfill useful, long term goals.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"It also covers people with dual citizenship like a Tory MP who has British and Iraqi citizenship who is now not allowed to go to the US.

Does that sound fair to anyone?

yes

and congrats we have just hit a new low even for the forums.......

bravo!!!!!

so cheerlead and troll as much as you.... I am not even disgusted... i truely pity you.... i really really do"

get over yourself

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"If you dont agree with Trump it's time for some backlash. Dont buy anything american.Fuck them.Its easy.Put your disdain on your facebook status or on Twitter.That hate towards the usa will grow.Stand-up be counted otherwise dont complain.Fuck Emperor Trump and fuck the roaches who support him.

"
...in 2011..Obama banned all Iraqi refugees for six months.. Did you go into revolution mode then...if no..why not.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"and congrats we have just hit a new low even for the forums.......

bravo!!!!!

so cheerlead and troll as much as you.... I am not even disgusted... i truely pity you.... i really really do

Of course it isn't fair, it was a ridiculous question which deserved a ridiculous reply and has got a ridiculous response. And you sir a one of the biggest bigots on here, so you get over yourself too

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"It also covers people with dual citizenship like a Tory MP who has British and Iraqi citizenship who is now not allowed to go to the US.

Does that sound fair to anyone?

yes

Gone Fishing

You got a bite of everyone one of them shoal living creatures. What a haul

easy innit?

Some people are so up themselves and dim

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

...in 2011..Obama banned all Iraqi refugees for six months.. Did you go into revolution mode then...if no..why not. "
I liked Obama i wouldn't piss on emperor trump.I dont protest much.Although I haven't bought any Israeli products or food for years.I protest with my wallet.

Its all good.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

...in 2011..Obama banned all Iraqi refugees for six months.. Did you go into revolution mode then...if no..why not. I liked Obama i wouldn't piss on emperor trump.I dont protest much.Although I haven't bought any Israeli products or food for years.I protest with my wallet.

Its all good."
...so do you think Obama was a bigot and a racist for what he done in 2011.?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Its all good....so do you think Obama was a bigot and a racist for what he done in 2011.?"
No

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 29/01/17 10:00:02]

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

But surely the only way of regaining control of who is coming into you're country and for what perpose is to stop the whole thing and restart with processes in place to vet and filter out people who you think would be a problem.

I know it seems harsh and there will and are some people who will be put out until they are OK'd to enter but his administration is doing what they think is best in the short term.

The USA has always been quite strict on who they aloow in it's just never been so much in the news as now.

For years there have been 100's of refusals to enter per day it's just now the press runs with every story they can toy sell papers

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Its all good....so do you think Obama was a bigot and a racist for what he done in 2011.?No

In which case you sir support bigots and racists. You are the exact scum you claim to dispise. Hypocrite

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By *enard ArgenteMan over a year ago

London and France

"It also covers people with dual citizenship like a Tory MP who has British and Iraqi citizenship who is now not allowed to go to the US.

Does that sound fair to anyone?

yes

Gone Fishing

You got a bite of everyone one of them shoal living creatures. What a haul

easy innit?

Some people are so up themselves and dim"

Yes you are

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By *LCCCouple over a year ago

Cambridge

Its all good....so do you think Obama was a bigot and a racist for what he done in 2011.?No

In which case you sir support bigots and racists. You are the exact scum you claim to dispise. Hypocrite "

This isn't just about refugees. This affects people who are legally resident in the US, who may have been there for years. This will impact whole families who were on holiday when Trump signed his EO.

Now those people cant get back home, they can't go to work, their children can't go to school. What are they meant to do? Stay on holiday for 4 months?

Would your boss be OK with that? Would your landlord/mortgage company be ok without payment for 4 months?

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By *LCCCouple over a year ago

Cambridge

"and congrats we have just hit a new low even for the forums.......

bravo!!!!!

so cheerlead and troll as much as you.... I am not even disgusted... i truely pity you.... i really really do

So if Trumps policy isn't fair, why not come out and say so. Tell us how bigoted and xenophobic and islamophobic it is.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Its all good....so do you think Obama was a bigot and a racist for what he done in 2011.?No

In which case you sir support bigots and racists. You are the exact scum you claim to dispise. Hypocrite "
i am not a liberal

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"and who was doing the raping and murdering.

the answer to that is not people from the countries of the people who he has put the ban on..... thanks for answering my question!!!!

all those countries on the list DO have something in common though.... none of them have any trump properties!

there are countries where attackers have come from that do have trump business interests in them... none of them are on the list !..it was a Syrian refugee who raped a 10 years old boy in Germany. "
.....it was American soldiers who killed around half a million Iraqi civilians while"freeing" them.

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By *ools and the brainCouple over a year ago

couple, us we him her.

You humans make me laugh, petty squabbling.

You will soon find out that your "planet earth" is not the centre of the universe and you are but tiny specks of dust in the cosmos.

It's about time you stated to respect each other and your planet.

Annoying insects!

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By *ools and the brainCouple over a year ago

couple, us we him her.

Started.

Damn these tentacles

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Started.

Damn these tentacles "

I feel like we've ventured into japanese anime porn here.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Its all good....so do you think Obama was a bigot and a racist for what he done in 2011.?"

Obama did it because of intelligence and a threat from Iraq. Then they lifted it.

Trump's reasons? It seems he is doing it because people reacted to it more. The will of "the people". Plus it is causing chaos, people around the world detained, split from families etc.

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

Sorry I wasn't just really annoyed by the total lack of empathy that some of the people showed here.....

I am a dual national... I hold onto it for personal reasons, and I am proud to have it and honour both sides of my family

And the irony of it is there have been more attacks on us citizens holding U.K. Passports than that entire list of countries he did ban has combined.......

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"and congrats we have just hit a new low even for the forums.......

bravo!!!!!

so cheerlead and troll as much as you.... I am not even disgusted... i truely pity you.... i really really do

So if Trumps policy isn't fair, why not come out and say so. Tell us how bigoted and xenophobic and islamophobic it is."

I did. But aren't there exceptions on a case by case basis? And if its Islamophobic, why doesn't it apply to all muslim countries?

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By *eavenscentitCouple over a year ago

barnstaple

"Sorry I wasn't just really annoyed by the total lack of empathy that some of the people showed here.....

I am a dual national... I hold onto it for personal reasons, and I am proud to have it and honour both sides of my family

And the irony of it is there have been more attacks on us citizens holding U.K. Passports than that entire list of countries he did ban has combined......."

Totally in support of you

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By *LCCCouple over a year ago

Cambridge

"and congrats we have just hit a new low even for the forums.......

bravo!!!!!

so cheerlead and troll as much as you.... I am not even disgusted... i truely pity you.... i really really do

So if Trumps policy isn't fair, why not come out and say so. Tell us how bigoted and xenophobic and islamophobic it is.

I did. But aren't there exceptions on a case by case basis? And if its Islamophobic, why doesn't it apply to all muslim countries?"

I must have missed where you came out and attacked the policy then.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Its all good....so do you think Obama was a bigot and a racist for what he done in 2011.?

Obama did it because of intelligence and a threat from Iraq. Then they lifted it.

Trump's reasons? It seems he is doing it because people reacted to it more. The will of "the people". Plus it is causing chaos, people around the world detained, split from families etc.

What is Trump's Agenda? We already know the pipeline will use give money to his friends business. We can take a guess that the Americans will pay for the wall. I wonder who will get the contract and the money."
.....and who creates these threats.. I would imagine families pulling the stone dead bodies of their children out of the rubble on their bombed out home after another Obama drone attack.

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

I did. But aren't there exceptions on a case by case basis? And if its Islamophobic, why doesn't it apply to all muslim countries?"

The only exception at the moment are those of religious minority's.... no other exceptions... not for dual nationality... not for green card holders! .... not for those who have left the us either on business or on holiday...which is why companies like google were scrambling to try and get staff back!

And why did it not apply to all Muslim countries... well the common factor of the country's they did hit is that all of them have not trump business ties... whereas for example Pakistan, Saudi, UAE, turkey, Egypt where their citizens have attacked us citizens do have large trump business interests

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I did. But aren't there exceptions on a case by case basis? And if its Islamophobic, why doesn't it apply to all muslim countries?

the list of countries it applies to are the ones considered to be a threat. And that list was drawn up by .... Obama

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By *LCCCouple over a year ago

Cambridge

I did. But aren't there exceptions on a case by case basis? And if its Islamophobic, why doesn't it apply to all muslim countries?

the list of countries it applies to are the ones considered to be a threat. And that list was drawn up by .... Obama "

Still not hearing you condemn the policy...

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

the list of countries it applies to are the ones considered to be a threat. And that list was drawn up by .... Obama "

but as i said.... since 1975 no nationals from ANY of countries on the list have been convicted of any terrorist attack on US citizens....

the UK has more people convicted, and Germany, and france, and sweden (threw that one in for shags) and brazil, and mexico ect........

there ARE muslim countries that have had their citizens that have been convicted of attacks on us citizens... saudi, egypt, turkey, UAE, Qatar, Bahrain, Pakistan, Indonesia... but none of those are on the list, and all of them have substansial trump company holdings and business interest.......

of course there is a terrorist watch list... guess what... the UK has a terrorist watch list as well!!!!!!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

But you don't " take care of America" by this sort of action;

America's problems are not terrorists ( that this measure won't affect anyway) , mor Mexican immigrants, or even drugs.

This bigoted white ( orange) man and his white millionaire backers won't do much to fix that either ( after all they can't afford to let down David Duke and his friends).

All this measure has done is to give the racists, bigots and suchlike more validation for their beliefs.

The problem with America is America, built on a promise which fails to deliver. When the accumulation of wealth is the only way to measure success, it's a sad situation. The only people who can sort out their own problems is Americans, as long as they do not interfere in other countries affairs.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I did. But aren't there exceptions on a case by case basis? And if its Islamophobic, why doesn't it apply to all muslim countries?

the list of countries it applies to are the ones considered to be a threat. And that list was drawn up by .... Obama

Still not hearing you condemn the policy...

what did you think 'of course it isn't fair' meant?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I watched his announcement yesterday. He really loves being the boss and giving orders. There's an old saying in Ireland, the further the monkey climbs up the tree,the more you can see of his ass.

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By *LCCCouple over a year ago

Cambridge

I did. But aren't there exceptions on a case by case basis? And if its Islamophobic, why doesn't it apply to all muslim countries?

the list of countries it applies to are the ones considered to be a threat. And that list was drawn up by .... Obama

Still not hearing you condemn the policy...

what did you think 'of course it isn't fair' meant?"

That's it is it? That's as vocal a condemnation as you are going to give?

You have written more words questioning is it islamophobic, or is it Obama's fault, or how do refugees get to America than you have condemning the policy. I think that speaks volumes about how you really feel about it.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I watched his announcement yesterday. He really loves being the boss and giving orders. There's an old saying in Ireland, the further the monkey climbs up the tree,the more you can see of his ass.

"
The more i see of him, the more i see parallels between trump and African dictators.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I did. But aren't there exceptions on a case by case basis? And if its Islamophobic, why doesn't it apply to all muslim countries?

the list of countries it applies to are the ones considered to be a threat. And that list was drawn up by .... Obama

Still not hearing you condemn the policy...

what did you think 'of course it isn't fair' meant?

That's it is it? That's as vocal a condemnation as you are going to give?

who gives a fuck what you think?

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

if you now want a rough figure to put this into context.... according to sky news...

because it affects dual nationals... about 250,000 british nationals were born in iraq, iran and somalia.... that doesn't include the other 4 countries affected by the ban...... are now affect by this ban

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By *enard ArgenteMan over a year ago

London and France

"if you now want a rough figure to put this into context.... according to sky news...

Since the US has made a direct ban on UK citizens; then the very least that should happen is that the US ambassador should be summoned first thing tomorrow for an " expression of displeasure " as it is called in diplomatic circles.

A bollocking, in everyday language.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I did. But aren't there exceptions on a case by case basis? And if its Islamophobic, why doesn't it apply to all muslim countries?

the list of countries it applies to are the ones considered to be a threat. And that list was drawn up by .... Obama

Still not hearing you condemn the policy...

what did you think 'of course it isn't fair' meant?

That's it is it? That's as vocal a condemnation as you are going to give?

who gives a fuck what you think?"
It is hard to find a fuck to give in these Orwellian times.

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By *LCCCouple over a year ago

Cambridge

To all of those who say things like "why do you always call us bigotted?" its because you're not on here condemning bigoted actions.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"To all of those who say things like "why do you always call us bigotted?" its because you're not on here condemning bigoted actions."
...no its the likes of you who cherry pick what's racist.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"if you now want a rough figure to put this into context.... according to sky news...

A bollocking, in everyday language."
that won't happen Westminster wouldn't want to upset trump in anyway before a trade deal ...goes back to the old saying ..better the devil you know than the one you don't

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

". America is a fucked up place, in case some of you didnt know. I live in the City of Brotherly Love, does anyone know the crime rate in Philadelphia?

But you don't " take care of America" by this sort of action;

America's problems are not terrorists ( that this measure won't affect anyway) , mor Mexican immigrants, or even drugs.

All this measure has done is to give the racists, bigots and suchlike more validation for their beliefs.

"
.

Equality in the law exists.... The trouble is that equality is worth diddly shit with the current system of wealth inequality, let's start from the point it isn't about giving rich people's money to poor people, it's about giving every child born as equal a chance as all the rest.... We like to make big deals out of the mark zukenbergs or the bill gates but the reality is 90% of everybody is thrown on the scrap heap at birth, wealth inequality isn't just about the physical money you earn but the school's you go, the health system you have, the spare time your parents have to guide you, the friends you mingle with, the harshness of life you escape from, we take the brightest from the ten % who have some equality, the pool of talent shrinks smaller and smaller by the year back in the 40s FDR brought together the brightest people to push the new deal, all brilliant talented people, but alot of them were ordinary people from poor backgrounds who'd made something of themselves from having more equity in life, they weren't all Harvard and Yale graduates but they were all geniuses with an understanding of equality.

Today 40% of the Olympic squad were private school attendees,70% of the cabinet are traditionally private school,top university, all the "think tanks" are chocka block with top university people, there clever, they've worked hard, there deserving it's meritocracy of the enlightened and I'm not saying it's a bad thing but there's definitely something coming from it that's pushing the agenda... All these trade deals come from bright clever lawyers, politicans, CEOs, lobbyists, there well meaning but unrealistic because they have no understanding of coming from poverty they've only ever known equity and parity...I don't think Germans just put workers on boards just for fairness but for seeing things from different perspectives...50% of Americans earn less than 25k dollars, that's barely enough to get by on before you drop down to the bottom 20% who earn 4 dollars an hour and in a meritocracy we say well there not educated there not working harder that's all they deserve!!.

I'm not defending trump the guys a tit but at the same time I can't defend the system we have that feeds the trumpers of the world

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

now that the petition to stop the state visit is more than 100,000 on the gov website, it now has to be brought up for consideration in a debate... even though the government will say they will not stop it....we all know trumps likes "optics" well 3 hours of MP's Slaughtering him in a debate is not going to go down well...

in fact the protests if he did come here would be epic!!!!

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By *LCCCouple over a year ago

Cambridge

"To all of those who say things like "why do you always call us bigotted?" its because you're not on here condemning bigoted actions....no its the likes of you who cherry pick what's racist."

No, it's all the people who say "I didn't vote for Brexit based on immigration, and I'm not racist" who then don't come out to say this is wrong (or first say it's fair, then later say it isnt)

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By *enard ArgenteMan over a year ago

London and France

"if you now want a rough figure to put this into context.... according to sky news...

A bollocking, in everyday language. that won't happen Westminster wouldn't want to upset trump in anyway before a trade deal ...goes back to the old saying ..better the devil you know than the one you don't "

Well May of course can't do it, as she has already compromised herself by rushing to Trump.

Any shred of credibility she had is now really fucked;

Though I see that Boris has grown at least one ball and made a ( very lightweight) comment about the US policy.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"You humans make me laugh, petty squabbling.

You will soon find out that your "planet earth" is not the centre of the universe and you are but tiny specks of dust in the cosmos.

It's about time you stated to respect each other and your planet.

Annoying insects! "

Sounds good to me bro, now go talk to Daesh and ask thme the same thing about respecting each others beliefs and way of life and human right ect ect ect

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 29/01/17 13:34:19]

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"To all of those who say things like "why do you always call us bigotted?" its because you're not on here condemning bigoted actions....no its the likes of you who cherry pick what's racist.

No, it's all the people who say "I didn't vote for Brexit based on immigration, and I'm not racist" who then don't come out to say this is wrong (or first say it's fair, then later say it isnt)"

If that is aimed at me then yes I voted for Brexit partly based on immigration but no, I am not racist. That does not make you racist. And what Trump has done is patently not fair, you asked a stupid question to which you got a stupid answer. Now I'll ask a question. Was Merkel being fair to the German people by allowing the sudden influx of so many 'refugees' into their country?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"To all of those who say things like "why do you always call us bigotted?" its because you're not on here condemning bigoted actions....no its the likes of you who cherry pick what's racist.

No, it's all the people who say "I didn't vote for Brexit based on immigration, and I'm not racist" who then don't come out to say this is wrong (or first say it's fair, then later say it isnt)"
...what I do is look at the whole picture when l look to see who created the mess the world is in.. You see halos above their heads. When I don't.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I watched his announcement yesterday. He really loves being the boss and giving orders. There's an old saying in Ireland, the further the monkey climbs up the tree,the more you can see of his ass.

The more i see of him, the more i see parallels between trump and African dictators."

Why single out African dictators? Thats a bit racist

I condemn dictators regardless of nationality, race, religion, colour, sexual persuasion, hair colour, etc etc.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I watched his announcement yesterday. He really loves being the boss and giving orders. There's an old saying in Ireland, the further the monkey climbs up the tree,the more you can see of his ass.

The more i see of him, the more i see parallels between trump and African dictators.

Why single out African dictators? Thats a bit racist

I condemn dictators regardless of nationality, race, religion, colour, sexual persuasion, hair colour, etc etc.

"
I can see where your comming from hes a similar to little kim of north korea.Hes all about the money the pussy and the silly hair and gold bathroons.Very african dictator with a dash of north korean.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 29/01/17 14:59:21]

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By *LCCCouple over a year ago

Cambridge

"I watched his announcement yesterday. He really loves being the boss and giving orders. There's an old saying in Ireland, the further the monkey climbs up the tree,the more you can see of his ass.

The more i see of him, the more i see parallels between trump and African dictators.

Why single out African dictators? Thats a bit racist

I condemn dictators regardless of nationality, race, religion, colour, sexual persuasion, hair colour, etc etc.

Well unfortunately there is quite a history of this in Africa. For about 20 years there has been a $1m prize for any democratically elected African head of state who steps down peacefully at the end of their term and hands over to the next democratically elected head of state. So far no one has won it.

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By *LCCCouple over a year ago

Cambridge

"To all of those who say things like "why do you always call us bigotted?" its because you're not on here condemning bigoted actions....no its the likes of you who cherry pick what's racist.

No, it's all the people who say "I didn't vote for Brexit based on immigration, and I'm not racist" who then don't come out to say this is wrong (or first say it's fair, then later say it isnt)...what I do is look at the whole picture when l look to see who created the mess the world is in.. You see halos above their heads. When I don't. "

Trump created this travel ban. No one else.

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By *LCCCouple over a year ago

Cambridge

"To all of those who say things like "why do you always call us bigotted?" its because you're not on here condemning bigoted actions....no its the likes of you who cherry pick what's racist.

No, it's all the people who say "I didn't vote for Brexit based on immigration, and I'm not racist" who then don't come out to say this is wrong (or first say it's fair, then later say it isnt)...what I do is look at the whole picture when l look to see who created the mess the world is in.. You see halos above their heads. When I don't. "

Let's be honest, the only people you praise are people who attack foreigners, either verbally or politically like Trump has done.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"To all of those who say things like "why do you always call us bigotted?" its because you're not on here condemning bigoted actions....no its the likes of you who cherry pick what's racist.

No, it's all the people who say "I didn't vote for Brexit based on immigration, and I'm not racist" who then don't come out to say this is wrong (or first say it's fair, then later say it isnt)...what I do is look at the whole picture when l look to see who created the mess the world is in.. You see halos above their heads. When I don't.

Let's be honest, the only people you praise are people who attack foreigners, either verbally or politically like Trump has done."
...attack foreigners... The jets bombing the hell out of the middle east isn't the Farnborough air show.

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By *LCCCouple over a year ago

Cambridge

"To all of those who say things like "why do you always call us bigotted?" its because you're not on here condemning bigoted actions....no its the likes of you who cherry pick what's racist.

No, it's all the people who say "I didn't vote for Brexit based on immigration, and I'm not racist" who then don't come out to say this is wrong (or first say it's fair, then later say it isnt)...what I do is look at the whole picture when l look to see who created the mess the world is in.. You see halos above their heads. When I don't.

Let's be honest, the only people you praise are people who attack foreigners, either verbally or politically like Trump has done....attack foreigners... The jets bombing the hell out of the middle east isn't the Farnborough air show."

But aren't you supporting measures to ensure that people can't escape those jets? Haven't you been praising Putin who is bombing civilians as well as Assad?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"To all of those who say things like "why do you always call us bigotted?" its because you're not on here condemning bigoted actions....no its the likes of you who cherry pick what's racist.

No, it's all the people who say "I didn't vote for Brexit based on immigration, and I'm not racist" who then don't come out to say this is wrong (or first say it's fair, then later say it isnt)...what I do is look at the whole picture when l look to see who created the mess the world is in.. You see halos above their heads. When I don't.

But aren't you supporting measures to ensure that people can't escape those jets? Haven't you been praising Putin who is bombing civilians as well as Assad? "
..no.

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By *LCCCouple over a year ago

Cambridge

"To all of those who say things like "why do you always call us bigotted?" its because you're not on here condemning bigoted actions....no its the likes of you who cherry pick what's racist.

No, it's all the people who say "I didn't vote for Brexit based on immigration, and I'm not racist" who then don't come out to say this is wrong (or first say it's fair, then later say it isnt)...what I do is look at the whole picture when l look to see who created the mess the world is in.. You see halos above their heads. When I don't.

But aren't you supporting measures to ensure that people can't escape those jets? Haven't you been praising Putin who is bombing civilians as well as Assad? ..no."

Right, so you are fully against a refugee ban then?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"To all of those who say things like "why do you always call us bigotted?" its because you're not on here condemning bigoted actions....no its the likes of you who cherry pick what's racist.

No, it's all the people who say "I didn't vote for Brexit based on immigration, and I'm not racist" who then don't come out to say this is wrong (or first say it's fair, then later say it isnt)...what I do is look at the whole picture when l look to see who created the mess the world is in.. You see halos above their heads. When I don't.

But aren't you supporting measures to ensure that people can't escape those jets? Haven't you been praising Putin who is bombing civilians as well as Assad? ..no.

Right, so you are fully against a refugee ban then?

"
....I disagree with it.. But hope a more reliable vetting system is put in place for the security of the American people...they have enemies.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

I think it's disgusting, particularly as he issued it on Holocaust Memorial DayYes and think the same as it was on the same day as the memorial...president Carter done the same thing with Iranian students.. No outcry then."
I think it depends what person is saying it and as well there wasnt a immigration crisis back then.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"To all of those who say things like "why do you always call us bigotted?" its because you're not on here condemning bigoted actions....no its the likes of you who cherry pick what's racist.

No, it's all the people who say "I didn't vote for Brexit based on immigration, and I'm not racist" who then don't come out to say this is wrong (or first say it's fair, then later say it isnt)...what I do is look at the whole picture when l look to see who created the mess the world is in.. You see halos above their heads. When I don't.

But aren't you supporting measures to ensure that people can't escape those jets? Haven't you been praising Putin who is bombing civilians as well as Assad? ..no.

Right, so you are fully against a refugee ban then?

....I disagree with it.. But hope a more reliable vetting system is put in place for the security of the American people...they have enemies. "

Lots of enemies

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"I disagree with it.. But hope a more reliable vetting system is put in place for the security of the American people...they have enemies. "

so what part of the current system is not reliable?

if you are going to use a "talking point" like that, then at least know what already happens

the point is that it already takes 3-4 years for a refugee to be able to get clearence to come to the US..... and they go thru both UN and US process's

and on top of that syrian refugees go thru further process's of vetting....

all the attacks the have happened to us citizens... fort hood, san bernedino, orlando.... were all done by people born and raised in the us....

if they are trying to stop people being radicalised they would probably have to try and ban the internet!!!!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Good UK should do the same

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By *LCCCouple over a year ago

Cambridge

"I disagree with it.. But hope a more reliable vetting system is put in place for the security of the American people...they have enemies.

so what part of the current system is not reliable?

if you are going to use a "talking point" like that, then at least know what already happens

the point is that it already takes 3-4 years for a refugee to be able to get clearence to come to the US..... and they go thru both UN and US process's

and on top of that syrian refugees go thru further process's of vetting....

all the attacks the have happened to us citizens... fort hood, san bernedino, orlando.... were all done by people born and raised in the us....

if they are trying to stop people being radicalised they would probably have to try and ban the internet!!!!"

The refugees even need to pay back the cost of their flights to the US.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I disagree with it.. But hope a more reliable vetting system is put in place for the security of the American people...they have enemies.

so what part of the current system is not reliable?

if you are going to use a "talking point" like that, then at least know what already happens

the point is that it already takes 3-4 years for a refugee to be able to get clearence to come to the US..... and they go thru both UN and US process's

and on top of that syrian refugees go thru further process's of vetting....

all the attacks the have happened to us citizens... fort hood, san bernedino, orlando.... were all done by people born and raised in the us....

if they are trying to stop people being radicalised they would probably have to try and ban the internet!!!!

The refugees even need to pay back the cost of their flights to the US."

I suppose all that is down to Trump

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By *obka3Couple over a year ago

bournemouth

"I disagree with it.. But hope a more reliable vetting system is put in place for the security of the American people...they have enemies.

so what part of the current system is not reliable?

if you are going to use a "talking point" like that, then at least know what already happens

the point is that it already takes 3-4 years for a refugee to be able to get clearence to come to the US..... and they go thru both UN and US process's

and on top of that syrian refugees go thru further process's of vetting....

all the attacks the have happened to us citizens... fort hood, san bernedino, orlando.... were all done by people born and raised in the us....

if they are trying to stop people being radicalised they would probably have to try and ban the internet!!!!

The refugees even need to pay back the cost of their flights to the US."

Are you saying that a country cant decide who does and doesnt enter? Do you let anyone into your house or would you keep out those who might raise concerns? I am sure dual nationals will get back in

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By *LCCCouple over a year ago

Cambridge

"I disagree with it.. But hope a more reliable vetting system is put in place for the security of the American people...they have enemies.

so what part of the current system is not reliable?

if you are going to use a "talking point" like that, then at least know what already happens

the point is that it already takes 3-4 years for a refugee to be able to get clearence to come to the US..... and they go thru both UN and US process's

and on top of that syrian refugees go thru further process's of vetting....

all the attacks the have happened to us citizens... fort hood, san bernedino, orlando.... were all done by people born and raised in the us....

if they are trying to stop people being radicalised they would probably have to try and ban the internet!!!!

The refugees even need to pay back the cost of their flights to the US.

I suppose all that is down to Trump"

It's been that way since at least Bush, possibly much longer.

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

Are you saying that a country cant decide who does and doesnt enter? Do you let anyone into your house or would you keep out those who might raise concerns? I am sure dual nationals will get back in "

don't be silly..... of course a country can decide who comes in and who doesn't... even the uk does that and i am glad they do

but that is based on "individuals" rather than countries

so for example... do i ban gert wilders (the dutch mp who has been banned for inciting religious hatred)... or do i go and ban everyone from the entire country... and everyone who happens to have duel-dutch nationality... based on him?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"now that the petition to stop the state visit is more than 100,000 on the gov website, it now has to be brought up for consideration in a debate... even though the government will say they will not stop it....we all know trumps likes "optics" well 3 hours of MP's Slaughtering him in a debate is not going to go down well...

in fact the protests if he did come here would be epic!!!! "

The anti-Trump hysteria is already epic.

Algeria, Bangladesh, Brunei, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq (except Iraqi Kurdistan), Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya, Malaysia, Oman, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Syria, United Arab Emirates and Yemen do not allow anyone with an Israel passport to enter their territory.

In addition, Iran, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Syria and Yemen do not allow entry to anyone who has even visited Israel!?

Hypocrisy, double standards and needless to say no PC online petitions against these long-term, hate-filled, resolutely anti-Semitic countries.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"It also covers people with dual citizenship like a Tory MP who has British and Iraqi citizenship who is now not allowed to go to the US.

Does that sound fair to anyone?

yes

and congrats we have just hit a new low even for the forums.......

bravo!!!!!

so cheerlead and troll as much as you.... I am not even disgusted... i truely pity you.... i really really do"

Are you not aware there is a "Disney" in France, you are now, - tell your friends

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Absolutely Disgraceful

What the hell is in Trump's mind to do such a thing for such a short period, it should be for years, if not for life, hopefully President trump will see the error of his ways and make this a lifetime ban

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By *asyukMan over a year ago

West London

The Donald is doing what he said he'd do. It's, nasty and counter productive and will lead to American Muslims or anyone who "might" be a Muslim being vilified and feeling vulnerable in their own country. A mosque has already burned in Texas.

This is our new reality. Bitter and angry and finger pointing and unnuanced and unable to accept how complicated the world is and that there are no simple answers.

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By *oi_LucyCouple over a year ago

Barbados

"I disagree with it.. But hope a more reliable vetting system is put in place for the security of the American people...they have enemies.

so what part of the current system is not reliable?

if you are going to use a "talking point" like that, then at least know what already happens

the point is that it already takes 3-4 years for a refugee to be able to get clearence to come to the US..... and they go thru both UN and US process's

and on top of that syrian refugees go thru further process's of vetting....

all the attacks the have happened to us citizens... fort hood, san bernedino, orlando.... were all done by people born and raised in the us....

if they are trying to stop people being radicalised they would probably have to try and ban the internet!!!!"

Ban the internet?! FFS... don't give him ideas. Oh. Wait. Theresa May was over there last week, so probably already told him that idea

-Matt

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By *LCCCouple over a year ago

Cambridge

Absolutely Disgraceful

Hopefully the xenophobia is only temporary. I hope in time you also stop judging people based upon the country they were born in.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

...in 2011..Obama banned all Iraqi refugees for six months.. Did you go into revolution mode then...if no..why not. "

Fact checked, Obama put a pause on ALL applications from iraq for 6 months because it was found that two refugees were affiliated with terrorists groups in Iraq. Measured response in relation to a threat.

Trump has done this

Ban entry to the US for people born in seven majority Muslim countries - Syria, Iraq, Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and Yemen - including holders of legal green cards and visas - for 90 days

Suspending the Syrian refugee plan indefinitely

Suspending entire refugee plan for 120 days

Bans entry to the US for dual-nationality passport holders - meaning citizens of the above countries who also hold, for example, a British passport, are also banned for 90 days.

Prioritise Christian refugees over Muslims

Capped refugee total to 50,000

Did it out of the blue

Trump came up with his Muslim ban following the Orlando nightclub shooting, an attack committed not by refugees or migrants, but by a US citizen who was born in New York.

Of all the fatal terror attacks carried out on US soil since 9/11, exactly zero have been committed by immigrants from the seven majority Muslim countries targeted by the ban

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"To all of those who say things like "why do you always call us bigotted?" its because you're not on here condemning bigoted actions....no its the likes of you who cherry pick what's racist."

so what racist to you then?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Good UK should do the same "

A little biased considering Cyprus and its recent history.

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

...in 2011..Obama banned all Iraqi refugees for six months.. Did you go into revolution mode then...if no..why not.

Trump has done this

Ban entry to the US for people born in seven majority Muslim countries - Syria, Iraq, Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and Yemen - including holders of legal green cards and visas - for 90 days

Suspending the Syrian refugee plan indefinitely

Suspending entire refugee plan for 120 days

Bans entry to the US for dual-nationality passport holders - meaning citizens of the above countries who also hold, for example, a British passport, are also banned for 90 days.

Prioritise Christian refugees over Muslims

Capped refugee total to 50,000

Did it out of the blue

Trump came up with his Muslim ban following the Orlando nightclub shooting, an attack committed not by refugees or migrants, but by a US citizen who was born in New York.

Of all the fatal terror attacks carried out on US soil since 9/11, exactly zero have been committed by immigrants from the seven majority Muslim countries targeted by the ban

can you not ruin this thread by supplying "actual and proveable" fact please.......

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"A federal judge has stayed the deportation orders for people who have arrived from the countries affected with a valid visa. The stay is to last until a full review and hearing can be held in February. Thank you ACLU! It's only a temporary win, but I'll take it for now."

It looks like the white house has said that the executive order will be carried out - regardless of the stay issued by federal judges. Congressmen, armed with the stay order from federal judges have been turned away by border control at Dulles airport.

Democracy, huh? Upholding the constitution? What a sad day in America. Regardless of how you view the ban itself, ignoring the rule of law is a step away from democracy.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

19 out of what was it 21 of the 911 hijackers were Saudi nationals, bin laden was a Saudi national his second in command bin zawedi was a Saudi national, most of their money comes from Saudi, their Qurans definitely come from Saudi....I mean if you were remotely serious about implementing some ban then Saudi is your starting point.... Of course they also have a 3 trillion state fund investing in US bonds, investments and shares so that's probably why they haven't.

Like I said at the beginning of the thread it's just another bullshit policy aimed at his core voters

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

Democracy, huh? Upholding the constitution? What a sad day in America. Regardless of how you view the ban itself, ignoring the rule of law is a step away from democracy. "

that is worrying but probably not surprising with Trump knee jerking policy and most likely not listening to those who are meant to be advising him how the system works..

someone once said something about legislation on the hoof or rushed though being a mess..

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By *icketysplitsWoman over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

Democracy, huh? Upholding the constitution? What a sad day in America. Regardless of how you view the ban itself, ignoring the rule of law is a step away from democracy. "

It is beginning to feel like Trump believes he is the law.

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By *LCCCouple over a year ago

Cambridge

Democracy, huh? Upholding the constitution? What a sad day in America. Regardless of how you view the ban itself, ignoring the rule of law is a step away from democracy. "

American Judges in American courts making decisions on American laws? How dare they! Enemies of the people! Its almost as bad as British Judges ruling on British laws in British courts!

Ignoring the rule of law is awful, a real step towards a dictatorship.

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By *LCCCouple over a year ago

Cambridge

It sounds like a very dangerous situation with 5,000 protesters just at T4 JFK. That many people are very hard to control and can be unpredictable. The people they are wanting to talk to are armed.

I don't think it will be very long before someone ends up getting seriously hurt or worse as a result of one of Trump's policies.

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By *ultry SuccubusTV/TS over a year ago

London

I found his ideas are 'interesting'.

He's trying to protect his country in a new way. Might be successful, might be not.

I think we do it too, at our level, for example, not simply allowing anybody to enter our home and we do stereotype people based on their looks, their attire etc.

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By *ultry SuccubusTV/TS over a year ago

London

Hopefully the xenophobia is only temporary. I hope in time you also stop judging people based upon the country they were born in. "

Born in or brought up in.

I think it does matter because the social, environment, economy, education system, culture, religion etc play a big role in creating/forming a person.

Maybe it's wrong to judge but I think it's quite natural, as first impression, to stereotype people based on the country they were born and brought up in.

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By *LCCCouple over a year ago

Cambridge

Hopefully the xenophobia is only temporary. I hope in time you also stop judging people based upon the country they were born in.

Born in or brought up in.

I think it does matter because the social, environment, economy, education system, culture, religion etc play a big role in creating/forming a person.

Maybe it's wrong to judge but I think it's quite natural, as first impression, to stereotype people based on the country they were born and brought up in. "

Yes you're right, that is wrong, that's either racist or xenophobic (depending on how many people you are making such judgements about). How would you feel about people having blanket judgements on the whole of the trans community?

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By *oi_LucyCouple over a year ago

Barbados

Democracy, huh? Upholding the constitution? What a sad day in America. Regardless of how you view the ban itself, ignoring the rule of law is a step away from democracy.

that is worrying but probably not surprising with Trump knee jerking policy and most likely not listening to those who are meant to be advising him how the system works..

someone once said something about legislation on the hoof or rushed though being a mess.."

According to this CNN article it seems, indeed, Trump didn't consult with any of the operational or legal branches in constructing this ban:

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/01/28/politics/donald-trump-travel-ban/

-Matt

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Canada’s immigration minister says the country will offer temporary residency permits to travelers who become stranded here by President Donald Trump’s order banning travelers from seven Muslim-majority nations."

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By *ultry SuccubusTV/TS over a year ago

London

Hopefully the xenophobia is only temporary. I hope in time you also stop judging people based upon the country they were born in.

Born in or brought up in.

I think it does matter because the social, environment, economy, education system, culture, religion etc play a big role in creating/forming a person.

Maybe it's wrong to judge but I think it's quite natural, as first impression, to stereotype people based on the country they were born and brought up in.

That's what I meant.

It's natural.

People tend to make first impression on certain group without knowing them and usually based on something common (stereotype) or what being fed to them (media, experience etc).

The wiser ones will give it a chance to get to know/screen through and then judge.

The rash ones will immediately judge based on their 1st impression.

But it's a natural thing.

Just like your example (trans), I also happened to be muslim too and exposed to all sorts of stereotyping/judgement.

Some can be accepted some are not. I take it as a crticism.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

This is all getting a bit boring; we all know it was Obama that initially picked out these countries, Trump is just following up and tightening regulations.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

This is all getting a bit boring; we all know it was Obama that initially picked out these countries, Trump is just following up and tightening regulations."
That is right, sweden would do very good if they also introduced extreme vetting to restore order.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

This is all getting a bit boring; we all know it was Obama that initially picked out these countries, Trump is just following up and tightening regulations."
....I wonder why obama /trump didn't ban Saudi's, after all it was them who crashed 2 planes into the wtc. I guess oil= immunity

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By *oo hotCouple over a year ago

North West

This is all getting a bit boring; we all know it was Obama that initially picked out these countries, Trump is just following up and tightening regulations."

The USA already has the toughest border controls of any Western country, there is nothing more to tighten. Why include Shia's who have not conducted a single atrocity in the West and why not incluide Saudi Arabia?

This action by Trump is golden platter sent from Allah for the Daesh recruiters. Finally the message that they have been saying along is now being openly broadcast by the President of the USA.

On a rerlated matter, I would not want to be one of those US military advisors on the ground in Iraq at the moment now that their own President and C-I-C has just put a target on their back.

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By *LCCCouple over a year ago

Cambridge

The UN has just come out to say that the ban is illegal under human rights law.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-muslim-travel-ban-illegal-un-rights-chief-a7552991.html

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The UN has just come out to say that the ban is illegal under human rights law.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-muslim-travel-ban-illegal-un-rights-chief-a7552991.html"

So what? As if Trump is the first to break those and get a pat on the back. The Saudis break them on a weekly basis.

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By *LCCCouple over a year ago

Cambridge

"The UN has just come out to say that the ban is illegal under human rights law.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-muslim-travel-ban-illegal-un-rights-chief-a7552991.html

So what? As if Trump is the first to break those and get a pat on the back. The Saudis break them on a weekly basis."

Two wrongs don't make a right. It's not good when Presidents break the law.

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By *anes HubbyCouple over a year ago

Babbacombe Torquay

"The UN has just come out to say that the ban is illegal under human rights law.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-muslim-travel-ban-illegal-un-rights-chief-a7552991.html

So what? As if Trump is the first to break those and get a pat on the back. The Saudis break them on a weekly basis."

The Saudis are not world leaders though.....

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The UN has just come out to say that the ban is illegal under human rights law.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-muslim-travel-ban-illegal-un-rights-chief-a7552991.html

So what? As if Trump is the first to break those and get a pat on the back. The Saudis break them on a weekly basis.

The Saudis are not world leaders though....."

They aren't? And here l thought that they provided the World with oil. They have influence but you wouldn't hold them to the same standards as they West, would you? l mean they still enforce the punishment of Crucifixion.

Go UN!!

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By *anes HubbyCouple over a year ago

Babbacombe Torquay

"The UN has just come out to say that the ban is illegal under human rights law.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-muslim-travel-ban-illegal-un-rights-chief-a7552991.html

So what? As if Trump is the first to break those and get a pat on the back. The Saudis break them on a weekly basis.

The Saudis are not world leaders though.....

Go UN!!"

No they aren't.....having an abundance of oil doesn't make you a world leader.

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By *anes HubbyCouple over a year ago

Babbacombe Torquay

Let's face it it's all about the US distrust of Iran, all of the seven countries involved in the ban are heavily influenced by Iran, many are bankrolled by Iran.....

Trump spoke often about his distaste and distrust of Iran in the lead up to his election, but very little criticism of Saudi Arabia or Egypt from within the Trump camp.....both leading vocal adversaries of Iran.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Its all good....so do you think Obama was a bigot and a racist for what he done in 2011.?

Obama did it because of intelligence and a threat from Iraq. Then they lifted it.

Trump's reasons? It seems he is doing it because people reacted to it more. The will of "the people". Plus it is causing chaos, people around the world detained, split from families etc.

What is Trump's Agenda? We already know the pipeline will use give money to his friends business. We can take a guess that the Americans will pay for the wall. I wonder who will get the contract and the money......and who creates these threats.. I would imagine families pulling the stone dead bodies of their children out of the rubble on their bombed out home after another Obama drone attack. "

Why do you think I'm a fan of Obama? I know what the wrath of the US foreign policies. I do not wish it upon anyone.

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By *LCCCouple over a year ago

Cambridge

"The UN has just come out to say that the ban is illegal under human rights law.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-muslim-travel-ban-illegal-un-rights-chief-a7552991.html

So what? As if Trump is the first to break those and get a pat on the back. The Saudis break them on a weekly basis.

The Saudis are not world leaders though.....

Go UN!!

No they aren't.....having an abundance of oil doesn't make you a world leader.

Is Saudi a nuclear power? No.

Is Saudi a permanent member of the UN Security Council? No.

Do the have global military reach? No.

Do they have global soft power influence? No.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The UN has just come out to say that the ban is illegal under human rights law.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-muslim-travel-ban-illegal-un-rights-chief-a7552991.html

So what? As if Trump is the first to break those and get a pat on the back. The Saudis break them on a weekly basis.

The Saudis are not world leaders though.....

Go UN!!

No they aren't.....having an abundance of oil doesn't make you a world leader.

Nahhh. Having the largest abundance of oil in a world that runs on oil is a sure way to have no influence.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The UN has just come out to say that the ban is illegal under human rights law.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-muslim-travel-ban-illegal-un-rights-chief-a7552991.html

So what? As if Trump is the first to break those and get a pat on the back. The Saudis break them on a weekly basis.

The Saudis are not world leaders though.....

Go UN!!

No they aren't.....having an abundance of oil doesn't make you a world leader.

Is Saudi a nuclear power? No.

Is Saudi a permanent member of the UN Security Council? No.

Do the have global military reach? No.

Do they have global soft power influence? No."

Saudi's do have military reach. Are you fucking kidding? They are even using the Euro fighter typoon and Pakistan has nukes so no doubt they have too.

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By *anes HubbyCouple over a year ago

Babbacombe Torquay

"The UN has just come out to say that the ban is illegal under human rights law.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-muslim-travel-ban-illegal-un-rights-chief-a7552991.html

So what? As if Trump is the first to break those and get a pat on the back. The Saudis break them on a weekly basis.

The Saudis are not world leaders though.....

Go UN!!

No they aren't.....having an abundance of oil doesn't make you a world leader.

Nahhh. Having the largest abundance of oil in a world that runs on oil is a sure way to have no influence.

So influence and being a World Leader is the same in your eyes?.....Influence through being a good supplier of oil and being a soft touch for military exports doesn't make any country a world leader.

So influence and leadership not always the same thing.....

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

So a man who gains power be promisingredients to make his country great again to take control of his borders to fight for the working man ...then takes control and immediately singles out a whole religion...you couldn't make this shit up its like Trump had a copy of mein kamp on his bedside table ...and people in this country who moan the lost of life from the last time this happend ever single year support trump...lease we forget

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By *anes HubbyCouple over a year ago

Babbacombe Torquay

"The UN has just come out to say that the ban is illegal under human rights law.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-muslim-travel-ban-illegal-un-rights-chief-a7552991.html

So what? As if Trump is the first to break those and get a pat on the back. The Saudis break them on a weekly basis.

The Saudis are not world leaders though.....

Go UN!!

No they aren't.....having an abundance of oil doesn't make you a world leader.

Is Saudi a nuclear power? No.

Is Saudi a permanent member of the UN Security Council? No.

Do the have global military reach? No.

Do they have global soft power influence? No.

Saudi's do have military reach. Are you fucking kidding? They are even using the Euro fighter typoon and Pakistan has nukes so no doubt they have too.

The Saudis use other nations that they deem as lesser to themselves to fight their wars.....bombing innocents in Yemen hardly makes the Saudis a renowned fighting force.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The UN has just come out to say that the ban is illegal under human rights law.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-muslim-travel-ban-illegal-un-rights-chief-a7552991.html

So what? As if Trump is the first to break those and get a pat on the back. The Saudis break them on a weekly basis.

The Saudis are not world leaders though.....

Go UN!!

No they aren't.....having an abundance of oil doesn't make you a world leader.

Nahhh. Having the largest abundance of oil in a world that runs on oil is a sure way to have no influence.

So influence and being a World Leader is the same in your eyes?.....Influence through being a good supplier of oil and being a soft touch for military exports doesn't make any country a world leader.

So influence and leadership not always the same thing.....

Power is power.

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By *anes HubbyCouple over a year ago

Babbacombe Torquay

If Saudi Arabia ran out of oil tomorrow the western world wouldn't lift a finger to stop the likes of Iran from smashing them into the sands.....

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

I will do a part 2

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"If Saudi Arabia ran out of oil tomorrow the western world wouldn't lift a finger to stop the likes of Iran from smashing them into the sands.....

Funnily enough Germany and China are on a race to producing energy from almost nothing. That would make oil redundant.

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By *LCCCouple over a year ago

Cambridge

"The UN has just come out to say that the ban is illegal under human rights law.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-muslim-travel-ban-illegal-un-rights-chief-a7552991.html

So what? As if Trump is the first to break those and get a pat on the back. The Saudis break them on a weekly basis.

The Saudis are not world leaders though.....

Go UN!!

No they aren't.....having an abundance of oil doesn't make you a world leader.

Is Saudi a nuclear power? No.

Is Saudi a permanent member of the UN Security Council? No.

Do the have global military reach? No.

Do they have global soft power influence? No.

Saudi's do have military reach. Are you fucking kidding? They are even using the Euro fighter typoon and Pakistan has nukes so no doubt they have too.

Ok, so provide some proof then for your statement about their nuclear capabilities. Are they land-based? If so mobile or static launchers? Air delivered? If so on which airframe? Submarine based?

Saudi have never fought a war outside of the middle East, so how do you know they have global military reach? What is their strategic airlift capability? What amphibious assault capabilities do they have? How many carriers and subs do they have? How many bases outside of the kingdom do they have in third countries or on islands?

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