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May & Trump... How will it go?
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By *oo hot OP Couple
over a year ago
North West |
Two opinions seem to be prevailing:
1) May is getting in early to reinforce the special relationship and convince Britain and the world that the UK can still performon the big stage.
2) May is walking into a Trump trap, to be used as a means for the US to break up the EU and thereby have the ability to negotiate US favourable trade deals with a large number of smaller economies as opposed to a net equal trade deal with the equivalent EU economy.
What are you thoughts?
I hope that I am wrong, but I think that May is being too hasty and that Trump will later state or tweet comments made between him and May that will ultimately prove unhelpful for the UK and to which May will be forced to either rebuke and weaken the UK or accept and compromise herself. My opinion is that Trump wants to destroy the EU and he sees the UK as his vehicle to do that. |
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By *oo hot OP Couple
over a year ago
North West |
"Why would he want to destroy the EU? Because the corporations that run it are turning it into a low wage sweatshop like China?"
In case you didn't hear it...
"America First"
In case you don't know how trade deals work...
"Bigger economies call the shots and it would be far more beneficial for America to have preferential individual deals with Germany and France as opposed to an economically equal deal with the whole of the EU."
Trump knows that May is in a pickle and he sees an opportunity to further his America First agenda by using May. As for a quick trade deal... In my game, my quick deals with short sellers don't really benefit those who really need to make a deal... any deal. Quick deals are rarely bilaterally beneficial because one side can't afford to do the take away. |
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"Why would he want to destroy the EU? Because the corporations that run it are turning it into a low wage sweatshop like China?
In case you didn't hear it...
"America First"
In case you don't know how trade deals work...
"Bigger economies call the shots and it would be far more beneficial for America to have preferential individual deals with Germany and France as opposed to an economically equal deal with the whole of the EU."
Trump knows that May is in a pickle and he sees an opportunity to further his America First agenda by using May. As for a quick trade deal... In my game, my quick deals with short sellers don't really benefit those who really need to make a deal... any deal. Quick deals are rarely bilaterally beneficial because one side can't afford to do the take away. "
I'm watching Newsnight on BBC 2 now and they did a segment on this very issue at the start of the programme. Teresa May also has Donald Trump over a barrel because he has said he wants to do bilateral deals with countries instead of dealing with big blocks. Teresa May needs a trade deal with USA for economic reasons, Trump needs a bilateral trade deal with the UK politically to prove a point. They both need to make this deal happen for their own personal reasons. |
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"Why would he want to destroy the EU? Because the corporations that run it are turning it into a low wage sweatshop like China?
In case you didn't hear it...
"America First"
In case you don't know how trade deals work...
"Bigger economies call the shots and it would be far more beneficial for America to have preferential individual deals with Germany and France as opposed to an economically equal deal with the whole of the EU."
Trump knows that May is in a pickle and he sees an opportunity to further his America First agenda by using May. As for a quick trade deal... In my game, my quick deals with short sellers don't really benefit those who really need to make a deal... any deal. Quick deals are rarely bilaterally beneficial because one side can't afford to do the take away.
I'm watching Newsnight on BBC 2 now and they did a segment on this very issue at the start of the programme. Teresa May also has Donald Trump over a barrel because he has said he wants to do bilateral deals with countries instead of dealing with big blocks. Teresa May needs a trade deal with USA for economic reasons, Trump needs a bilateral trade deal with the UK politically to prove a point. They both need to make this deal happen for their own personal reasons. "
Newsnight is shit |
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"Why would he want to destroy the EU? Because the corporations that run it are turning it into a low wage sweatshop like China?
In case you didn't hear it...
"America First"
In case you don't know how trade deals work...
"Bigger economies call the shots and it would be far more beneficial for America to have preferential individual deals with Germany and France as opposed to an economically equal deal with the whole of the EU."
Trump knows that May is in a pickle and he sees an opportunity to further his America First agenda by using May. As for a quick trade deal... In my game, my quick deals with short sellers don't really benefit those who really need to make a deal... any deal. Quick deals are rarely bilaterally beneficial because one side can't afford to do the take away.
I'm watching Newsnight on BBC 2 now and they did a segment on this very issue at the start of the programme. Teresa May also has Donald Trump over a barrel because he has said he wants to do bilateral deals with countries instead of dealing with big blocks. Teresa May needs a trade deal with USA for economic reasons, Trump needs a bilateral trade deal with the UK politically to prove a point. They both need to make this deal happen for their own personal reasons.
Newsnight is shit"
And America could eat us whole. |
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"Why would he want to destroy the EU? Because the corporations that run it are turning it into a low wage sweatshop like China?
In case you didn't hear it...
"America First"
In case you don't know how trade deals work...
"Bigger economies call the shots and it would be far more beneficial for America to have preferential individual deals with Germany and France as opposed to an economically equal deal with the whole of the EU."
Trump knows that May is in a pickle and he sees an opportunity to further his America First agenda by using May. As for a quick trade deal... In my game, my quick deals with short sellers don't really benefit those who really need to make a deal... any deal. Quick deals are rarely bilaterally beneficial because one side can't afford to do the take away.
I'm watching Newsnight on BBC 2 now and they did a segment on this very issue at the start of the programme. Teresa May also has Donald Trump over a barrel because he has said he wants to do bilateral deals with countries instead of dealing with big blocks. Teresa May needs a trade deal with USA for economic reasons, Trump needs a bilateral trade deal with the UK politically to prove a point. They both need to make this deal happen for their own personal reasons.
Newsnight is shit
And America could eat us whole."
But you know, Brexit is best  |
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By *oo hot OP Couple
over a year ago
North West |
"Why would he want to destroy the EU? Because the corporations that run it are turning it into a low wage sweatshop like China?
In case you didn't hear it...
"America First"
In case you don't know how trade deals work...
"Bigger economies call the shots and it would be far more beneficial for America to have preferential individual deals with Germany and France as opposed to an economically equal deal with the whole of the EU."
Trump knows that May is in a pickle and he sees an opportunity to further his America First agenda by using May. As for a quick trade deal... In my game, my quick deals with short sellers don't really benefit those who really need to make a deal... any deal. Quick deals are rarely bilaterally beneficial because one side can't afford to do the take away.
I'm watching Newsnight on BBC 2 now and they did a segment on this very issue at the start of the programme. Teresa May also has Donald Trump over a barrel because he has said he wants to do bilateral deals with countries instead of dealing with big blocks. Teresa May needs a trade deal with USA for economic reasons, Trump needs a bilateral trade deal with the UK politically to prove a point. They both need to make this deal happen for their own personal reasons. "
Of course he doesn't want to do economically neutral trade deals with big blocs. He would much rather bully economically smaller nations so that the larger American economy will always get more favourable terms.
We are living in a strange world right now where it seems that what people think and want actually becomes the truth. It unfortunately is not like that in the real world. The UK will have to accept a deal worse than TTIP but will subsequently celebrate it as proof that the UK doesn't need the EU and Trump will wave a trade deal that is far better for the US than TTIP to validate his one nation, one deal preference. |
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"Why would he want to destroy the EU? Because the corporations that run it are turning it into a low wage sweatshop like China?
In case you didn't hear it...
"America First"
In case you don't know how trade deals work...
"Bigger economies call the shots and it would be far more beneficial for America to have preferential individual deals with Germany and France as opposed to an economically equal deal with the whole of the EU."
Trump knows that May is in a pickle and he sees an opportunity to further his America First agenda by using May. As for a quick trade deal... In my game, my quick deals with short sellers don't really benefit those who really need to make a deal... any deal. Quick deals are rarely bilaterally beneficial because one side can't afford to do the take away.
I'm watching Newsnight on BBC 2 now and they did a segment on this very issue at the start of the programme. Teresa May also has Donald Trump over a barrel because he has said he wants to do bilateral deals with countries instead of dealing with big blocks. Teresa May needs a trade deal with USA for economic reasons, Trump needs a bilateral trade deal with the UK politically to prove a point. They both need to make this deal happen for their own personal reasons.
Of course he doesn't want to do economically neutral trade deals with big blocs. He would much rather bully economically smaller nations so that the larger American economy will always get more favourable terms.
We are living in a strange world right now where it seems that what people think and want actually becomes the truth. It unfortunately is not like that in the real world. The UK will have to accept a deal worse than TTIP but will subsequently celebrate it as proof that the UK doesn't need the EU and Trump will wave a trade deal that is far better for the US than TTIP to validate his one nation, one deal preference."
No, Trump needs this trade deal with the UK politically. If he fails to get a bilateral trade deal going with the UK then his critics in the USA will be all over it and they will come down on him like a ton of bricks. This is why Teresa May has quite a bit of leverage to get a good deal from the USA if we are the first ones in the queue (and I suspect we are because Teresa May will be the first foreign leader to meet President Trump this Friday in the White House).
On your other point about TTIP, Trump will already know a TTIP style deal will be a non starter. Trump will have talked about Brexit at length with Nigel Farage and Farage will have told him don't try for a TTIP style deal because it will fail. |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
Think the first thing on the agenda will be "passport" deals for the banking sector. Beneficial to both parties.
How long do you think that a EU - America trade deal will take? Canada's deal has taken over 7 years and is still not implemented fully! Trump is a economic realist and a quick trade deal with the UK would be a credible option.
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"Why would he want to destroy the EU? Because the corporations that run it are turning it into a low wage sweatshop like China?
In case you didn't hear it...
"America First"
In case you don't know how trade deals work...
"Bigger economies call the shots and it would be far more beneficial for America to have preferential individual deals with Germany and France as opposed to an economically equal deal with the whole of the EU."
Trump knows that May is in a pickle and he sees an opportunity to further his America First agenda by using May. As for a quick trade deal... In my game, my quick deals with short sellers don't really benefit those who really need to make a deal... any deal. Quick deals are rarely bilaterally beneficial because one side can't afford to do the take away.
I'm watching Newsnight on BBC 2 now and they did a segment on this very issue at the start of the programme. Teresa May also has Donald Trump over a barrel because he has said he wants to do bilateral deals with countries instead of dealing with big blocks. Teresa May needs a trade deal with USA for economic reasons, Trump needs a bilateral trade deal with the UK politically to prove a point. They both need to make this deal happen for their own personal reasons.
Of course he doesn't want to do economically neutral trade deals with big blocs. He would much rather bully economically smaller nations so that the larger American economy will always get more favourable terms.
We are living in a strange world right now where it seems that what people think and want actually becomes the truth. It unfortunately is not like that in the real world. The UK will have to accept a deal worse than TTIP but will subsequently celebrate it as proof that the UK doesn't need the EU and Trump will wave a trade deal that is far better for the US than TTIP to validate his one nation, one deal preference.
No, Trump needs this trade deal with the UK politically. If he fails to get a bilateral trade deal going with the UK then his critics in the USA will be all over it and they will come down on him like a ton of bricks. This is why Teresa May has quite a bit of leverage to get a good deal from the USA if we are the first ones in the queue (and I suspect we are because Teresa May will be the first foreign leader to meet President Trump this Friday in the White House).
On your other point about TTIP, Trump will already know a TTIP style deal will be a non starter. Trump will have talked about Brexit at length with Nigel Farage and Farage will have told him don't try for a TTIP style deal because it will fail. "
Forget fucking Farage ;
The US does want, and has clearly aimed for, aTTIP type deal. It's the only worthwhile deal you can make with UK;
It will involve the US " investing" in UK infrastructure, hospitals etc ( check who already actually owns U.K. Hospitals, and who owns the companies that provide " contracted services" to the NHS.
A US/U.K. "Deal " will go only one way; "deals with the US only ever benefit the US,
1.Trump needs a deal to show he can make outside deals
2. May desperately needs a deal, any deal , to "prove " that U.K. can go it alone, so will take anything she can get.
3. In addition to the normal way of US deals, Trumps " good deals" are only " I win, you lose"
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By *oo hot OP Couple
over a year ago
North West |
"........... In addition to the normal way of US deals, Trumps " good deals" are only " I win, you lose"
"
And indeed in his own words.. "the only good deal is where I win and you lose." |
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In my opinion May should not go and openly publicly and convincingly speak out against farts stance on torture . But no she will toddle over and let the world know the UK wants to be little America and lap dogs to a fart
If any other head of country had advocated torture the UK would normally have condemned and boycotted a relationship
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"In my opinion May should not go and openly publicly and convincingly speak out against farts stance on torture . But no she will toddle over and let the world know the UK wants to be little America and lap dogs to a fart
If any other head of country had advocated torture the UK would normally have condemned and boycotted a relationship
"
2 words....Saudi Arabia. 
Other countries like China also have less than satisfactory records on human rights but I don't see you or others calling for a boycott of Chinese or Saudi relations?
Just like these feminist extremists who marched in protest at the weekend, where was their condemnation of women's rights in China, Iran, and many other middle eastern countries? They won't make a peep about Saudi or Iran though because it doesn't fit in with their lefty agenda of being apologists for hard line Islamist countries. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
It's all about the trade.... Everybody on here says it is, that's the only thing that matters in this whole fucking stinking shit hole of a planet.... HOW MUCH MONEY CAN I MAKE  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Why would he want to destroy the EU? Because the corporations that run it are turning it into a low wage sweatshop like China?
In case you didn't hear it...
"America First"
In case you don't know how trade deals work...
"Bigger economies call the shots and it would be far more beneficial for America to have preferential individual deals with Germany and France as opposed to an economically equal deal with the whole of the EU."
Trump knows that May is in a pickle and he sees an opportunity to further his America First agenda by using May. As for a quick trade deal... In my game, my quick deals with short sellers don't really benefit those who really need to make a deal... any deal. Quick deals are rarely bilaterally beneficial because one side can't afford to do the take away. "
Read an interesting article about the USA - Australian trade deal - record deal in less than a year - some years ago. Today it's apparently not such a good deal - all stacked in US favour and not what the Auzzies thought it would be?
Apparently Trumps take on a deal is he wins you lose according to his book?
Tread carefully would be wise. As May has said before - No deal is better than a bad deal! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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May and trump is only the warm up bout. The Mexican president arrives next week, and he said that Mexico won't be paying for the wall, under any circumstances. Your move donnie  |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
The other issue is that trump is on the warpath against countries that have high trade imbalances with the us... be that China.. or Japan.. or Mexico etc.....
The trade between the uk and the us is about 2 to 1 in the uk favour... so what is in the us interests and their America first policy to give the uk some sort of beneficial sweetheart trade deal?
It's not...... |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"May and trump is only the warm up bout. The Mexican president arrives next week, and he said that Mexico won't be paying for the wall, under any circumstances. Your move donnie "
Trump is already laying the ground to be able to claim they will...
What will happened is that they will look at money homeland security gives to Mexico for example in aid they give to them to fight their war on the drug cartels.. and channel that money to the wall instead |
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"The other issue is that trump is on the warpath against countries that have high trade imbalances with the us... be that China.. or Japan.. or Mexico etc.....
The trade between the uk and the us is about 2 to 1 in the uk favour... so what is in the us interests and their America first policy to give the uk some sort of beneficial sweetheart trade deal?
It's not...... "
It absolutely is in Trumps interest for the reasons I already gave on this thread. Plus if Trump really wants to undermine the EU and tempt other countries to leave the EU he must make sure Brexit is a success. |
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"We cant have a deal for 2 years anyway so by that time Trump will be half way through his term in office and things in the EU will have changed too."
Sod the EU's 2 year rule on us making any trade deals, other EU countries frequently break EU rules. Anyway what are they gonna do if we break it? Throw us out of the EU?  |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"The other issue is that trump is on the warpath against countries that have high trade imbalances with the us... be that China.. or Japan.. or Mexico etc.....
The trade between the uk and the us is about 2 to 1 in the uk favour... so what is in the us interests and their America first policy to give the uk some sort of beneficial sweetheart trade deal?
It's not......
It absolutely is in Trumps interest for the reasons I already gave on this thread. Plus if Trump really wants to undermine the EU and tempt other countries to leave the EU he must make sure Brexit is a success."
It doesn't work in an America first context
for domestic consumption if this deal gets done as quick as you guys think it will, it will be done in the run up to the 2020 US general election where his opponents are going to beat him up saying he is not doing good deals in his nations interest!
You guys have to realise giving any sweetheart deal to the uk is not going to win him votes! Especially if your deal ends up widening trade defecits! And his budgets widen and increase the us debt! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"May and trump is only the warm up bout. The Mexican president arrives next week, and he said that Mexico won't be paying for the wall, under any circumstances. Your move donnie
Trump is already laying the ground to be able to claim they will...
What will happened is that they will look at money homeland security gives to Mexico for example in aid they give to them to fight their war on the drug cartels.. and channel that money to the wall instead "
...so Mexico will then say,fight the drug cartels yourself. Don't know if that would work. |
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"We cant have a deal for 2 years anyway so by that time Trump will be half way through his term in office and things in the EU will have changed too.
Sod the EU's 2 year rule on us making any trade deals, other EU countries frequently break EU rules. Anyway what are they gonna do if we break it? Throw us out of the EU? "
I don't know what they can do but its better to stick to the rules then they cant do anything. |
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"Teresa May also has Donald Trump over a barrel"
She really, really, really does not.
She is going to be desperately kissing his arse for a half decent trade deal to show that she can maybe make Brexit work. Brexit is going to make or break her career.
By contrast, Britain is nothing at all to Trump.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Teresa May also has Donald Trump over a barrel
She really, really, really does not.
She is going to be desperately kissing his arse for a half decent trade deal to show that she can maybe make Brexit work. Brexit is going to make or break her career.
By contrast, Britain is nothing at all to Trump.
"
It could be as good as Bush and Blair relationship. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"We cant have a deal for 2 years anyway so by that time Trump will be half way through his term in office and things in the EU will have changed too.
Sod the EU's 2 year rule on us making any trade deals, other EU countries frequently break EU rules. Anyway what are they gonna do if we break it? Throw us out of the EU? "
A good point, but not well thought out!
If we declare "UDI" and break the rules on the EU, which incidentally we had a major part in drafting, we would have to face the consequences:
We alienate our biggest partner - which would certainly lead to a trade war- yes we buy more off them... but Germany only SELL 9% of their GDP to us.
When we leave or are kicked out as a result of defaulting we then have to apply for membership of WTO part of the process is all existing members agreeing to our membership.
IF we break the rules - what would be the international response? Trust would be damaged and that would affect foreign investment which we need to survive - due to our massive current account deficit.
So the EU need London - but there are other financial centre's which could "STEAL" the business. Yes London is the largest but Paris is the second largest in Euro derivatives.
in the end brexit is going to be tough enough without throwing a spanner in the works. Thank God your not on the negotiating team. |
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"Teresa May also has Donald Trump over a barrel
She really, really, really does not.
She is going to be desperately kissing his arse for a half decent trade deal to show that she can maybe make Brexit work. Brexit is going to make or break her career.
By contrast, Britain is nothing at all to Trump.
"
Britain is nothing to Trump? Hahahaha, have a listen to yourself. Trump is half British ffs, his mother was Scottish! His close personal friend Piers Morgan has said Trump told him he feels half British and he loves Britain. |
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"Teresa May also has Donald Trump over a barrel
She really, really, really does not.
She is going to be desperately kissing his arse for a half decent trade deal to show that she can maybe make Brexit work. Brexit is going to make or break her career.
By contrast, Britain is nothing at all to Trump.
Britain is nothing to Trump? Hahahaha, have a listen to yourself. Trump is half British ffs, his mother was Scottish! His close personal friend Piers Morgan has said Trump told him he feels half British and he loves Britain. "
You really believe that?
He is a hard ass cynical businessman who will do and say anything to get his way .
He could not give a flying fuck about UK apart from building golf courses and hotels on it, and currently to use the UK to give himself some semblance if acceptability. |
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"We cant have a deal for 2 years anyway so by that time Trump will be half way through his term in office and things in the EU will have changed too.
Sod the EU's 2 year rule on us making any trade deals, other EU countries frequently break EU rules. Anyway what are they gonna do if we break it? Throw us out of the EU? A good point, but not well thought out!
If we declare "UDI" and break the rules on the EU, which incidentally we had a major part in drafting, we would have to face the consequences:
We alienate our biggest partner - which would certainly lead to a trade war- yes we buy more off them... but Germany only SELL 9% of their GDP to us.
When we leave or are kicked out as a result of defaulting we then have to apply for membership of WTO part of the process is all existing members agreeing to our membership.
IF we break the rules - what would be the international response? Trust would be damaged and that would affect foreign investment which we need to survive - due to our massive current account deficit.
So the EU need London - but there are other financial centre's which could "STEAL" the business. Yes London is the largest but Paris is the second largest in Euro derivatives.
in the end brexit is going to be tough enough without throwing a spanner in the works. Thank God your not on the negotiating team."
Newsflash, we ALREADY alienated the EU by voting for Brexit. Go and watch some of the Brexit footage in the European Parliament on YouTube, the EU are spitting feathers.
You sound just like François Hollande who thinks Britain should be 'punished' for voting to Leave (in which case Boris Johnson was correct to compare him to a ww2 prison commendant wanting to dish out punishment beatings to anyone who tried to escape).
As far as trade goes we have a huge trade deficit with the EU, we buy much more from them than they buy from us (figures quoted from House of commons library by Conservative MP Bill Cash say some £65 billions worth of deficit each year). Tens of thousands of EU jobs depend on trade with Britain, and seeing as the unemployment rates in countries like Greece, Spain, Italy, Portugal and many other southern European countries are sky high the EU can ill afford to lose those jobs. So its the EU who needs us more than we need them. As Teresa May rightly said in her Brexit speech last week "No Deal is better than a bad deal for Britain". The EU can like it or lump it! |
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"Teresa May also has Donald Trump over a barrel
She really, really, really does not.
She is going to be desperately kissing his arse for a half decent trade deal to show that she can maybe make Brexit work. Brexit is going to make or break her career.
By contrast, Britain is nothing at all to Trump.
Britain is nothing to Trump? Hahahaha, have a listen to yourself. Trump is half British ffs, his mother was Scottish! His close personal friend Piers Morgan has said Trump told him he feels half British and he loves Britain.
You really believe that?
He is a hard ass cynical businessman who will do and say anything to get his way .
He could not give a flying fuck about UK apart from building golf courses and hotels on it, and currently to use the UK to give himself some semblance if acceptability."
Your French jealousy of Trumps favour towards Britain is more than obvious. |
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"Teresa May also has Donald Trump over a barrel
She really, really, really does not.
She is going to be desperately kissing his arse for a half decent trade deal to show that she can maybe make Brexit work. Brexit is going to make or break her career.
By contrast, Britain is nothing at all to Trump.
Britain is nothing to Trump? Hahahaha, have a listen to yourself. Trump is half British ffs, his mother was Scottish! His close personal friend Piers Morgan has said Trump told him he feels half British and he loves Britain.
You really believe that?
He is a hard ass cynical businessman who will do and say anything to get his way .
He could not give a flying fuck about UK apart from building golf courses and hotels on it, and currently to use the UK to give himself some semblance if acceptability.
Your French jealousy of Trumps favour towards Britain is more than obvious. "
Do please explain what you mean by my " French Jealousy".......
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
I didn't realise this. The average tariff between the EU and the US is only about 2% though obviously no, very complicated, regulatory agreement.
http://newscdn.newsrep.net/h5/nrshare.html?r=3&lan=en_GB&pid=14&id=OK7ce289f0o_uk&app_lan=&mcc=234&declared_lan=en_GB&pubaccount=ocms_0&referrer=200620&showall=1&mcc=234
What's to gain then? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Teresa May also has Donald Trump over a barrel
She really, really, really does not.
She is going to be desperately kissing his arse for a half decent trade deal to show that she can maybe make Brexit work. Brexit is going to make or break her career.
By contrast, Britain is nothing at all to Trump.
Britain is nothing to Trump? Hahahaha, have a listen to yourself. Trump is half British ffs, his mother was Scottish! His close personal friend Piers Morgan has said Trump told him he feels half British and he loves Britain. "
His father's ancestor came from Germany.
On a different note he's related to Heinz. You know what they about too much beans!?!? |
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"I didn't realise this. The average tariff between the EU and the US is only about 2% though obviously no, very complicated, regulatory agreement.
http://newscdn.newsrep.net/h5/nrshare.html?r=3&lan=en_GB&pid=14&id=OK7ce289f0o_uk&app_lan=&mcc=234&declared_lan=en_GB&pubaccount=ocms_0&referrer=200620&showall=1&mcc=234
What's to gain then?"
Nothing at all;
In fact any " deal" with the US will probably be worse .
And the " deal" will be under trump's " 30 day cancellation " policy ( as he stated today) so there will be no protection.
But don't let the believers worry about it.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Sadly folks like lot's of subjects in this country people have got to the point they don't want to hear proven facts about any subject unless it suits there side of the argument. Cherry pick the facts that suit you ignore all the other's.
Yes there has been many stories made up to discredit Trump but people who support him don't want to hear the true facts. You will never win a argument against anything he say's or does no matter how many true facts you quote. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"We cant have a deal for 2 years anyway so by that time Trump will be half way through his term in office and things in the EU will have changed too.
Sod the EU's 2 year rule on us making any trade deals, other EU countries frequently break EU rules. Anyway what are they gonna do if we break it? Throw us out of the EU? A good point, but not well thought out!
If we declare "UDI" and break the rules on the EU, which incidentally we had a major part in drafting, we would have to face the consequences:
We alienate our biggest partner - which would certainly lead to a trade war- yes we buy more off them... but Germany only SELL 9% of their GDP to us.
When we leave or are kicked out as a result of defaulting we then have to apply for membership of WTO part of the process is all existing members agreeing to our membership.
IF we break the rules - what would be the international response? Trust would be damaged and that would affect foreign investment which we need to survive - due to our massive current account deficit.
So the EU need London - but there are other financial centre's which could "STEAL" the business. Yes London is the largest but Paris is the second largest in Euro derivatives.
in the end brexit is going to be tough enough without throwing a spanner in the works. Thank God your not on the negotiating team.
Newsflash, we ALREADY alienated the EU by voting for Brexit. Go and watch some of the Brexit footage in the European Parliament on YouTube, the EU are spitting feathers.
You sound just like François Hollande who thinks Britain should be 'punished' for voting to Leave (in which case Boris Johnson was correct to compare him to a ww2 prison commendant wanting to dish out punishment beatings to anyone who tried to escape).
As far as trade goes we have a huge trade deficit with the EU, we buy much more from them than they buy from us (figures quoted from House of commons library by Conservative MP Bill Cash say some £65 billions worth of deficit each year). Tens of thousands of EU jobs depend on trade with Britain, and seeing as the unemployment rates in countries like Greece, Spain, Italy, Portugal and many other southern European countries are sky high the EU can ill afford to lose those jobs. So its the EU who needs us more than we need them. As Teresa May rightly said in her Brexit speech last week "No Deal is better than a bad deal for Britain". The EU can like it or lump it!"
You have made an assumption - like a lot of other's. Brits regard the EU as a trade club & that's all. The Europeans regard it as a security zone. Unlike the UK they have experienced 2 world wars on their soil and the EU binds them together, the brits don't see it that way. So it may well result in a different outcome to what is expected by the British government. However time will tell and neither of us pontificating will influence the matter. Just wait and see and all will be revealed. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I think May wants to be an American. Her speech made it sound like the UK wants to be our Little sister. We will take care of you guys, don't worry. I think she may have blew Donald Dictator today. She is one hell of a talker and not much of a looker. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Looks like a cunt will be grabbing the cunt of another cunt... and we're the ones getting fucked up the arse...
xx"
and she will give our nhs away just to get some crumbs of trade ,this is what the tories have wanted for a long time |
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"We cant have a deal for 2 years anyway so by that time Trump will be half way through his term in office and things in the EU will have changed too.
Sod the EU's 2 year rule on us making any trade deals, other EU countries frequently break EU rules. Anyway what are they gonna do if we break it? Throw us out of the EU? A good point, but not well thought out!
If we declare "UDI" and break the rules on the EU, which incidentally we had a major part in drafting, we would have to face the consequences:
We alienate our biggest partner - which would certainly lead to a trade war- yes we buy more off them... but Germany only SELL 9% of their GDP to us.
When we leave or are kicked out as a result of defaulting we then have to apply for membership of WTO part of the process is all existing members agreeing to our membership.
IF we break the rules - what would be the international response? Trust would be damaged and that would affect foreign investment which we need to survive - due to our massive current account deficit.
So the EU need London - but there are other financial centre's which could "STEAL" the business. Yes London is the largest but Paris is the second largest in Euro derivatives.
in the end brexit is going to be tough enough without throwing a spanner in the works. Thank God your not on the negotiating team.
Newsflash, we ALREADY alienated the EU by voting for Brexit. Go and watch some of the Brexit footage in the European Parliament on YouTube, the EU are spitting feathers.
You sound just like François Hollande who thinks Britain should be 'punished' for voting to Leave (in which case Boris Johnson was correct to compare him to a ww2 prison commendant wanting to dish out punishment beatings to anyone who tried to escape).
As far as trade goes we have a huge trade deficit with the EU, we buy much more from them than they buy from us (figures quoted from House of commons library by Conservative MP Bill Cash say some £65 billions worth of deficit each year). Tens of thousands of EU jobs depend on trade with Britain, and seeing as the unemployment rates in countries like Greece, Spain, Italy, Portugal and many other southern European countries are sky high the EU can ill afford to lose those jobs. So its the EU who needs us more than we need them. As Teresa May rightly said in her Brexit speech last week "No Deal is better than a bad deal for Britain". The EU can like it or lump it!"
Well that depends on what 'no deal' actually is. But either way, if 'no deal is better than a bad deal' with are biggest trading partner (the EU) then surely 'no deal is better than a bad deal' with are second biggest trading partner (the US).
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"I didn't realise this. The average tariff between the EU and the US is only about 2% though obviously no, very complicated, regulatory agreement.
http://newscdn.newsrep.net/h5/nrshare.html?r=3&lan=en_GB&pid=14&id=OK7ce289f0o_uk&app_lan=&mcc=234&declared_lan=en_GB&pubaccount=ocms_0&referrer=200620&showall=1&mcc=234
What's to gain then?"
Removing tariffs between the US and UK would be a good thing, in same way that introducing tariffs between the UK and the EU would be a bad thing. However tariffs are not the real barriers trade, regulations are. Currently we have a common system of regulations with the EU so there are few if any hidden barriers. That's not the situation with the US. Removing those non tariff barriers is what trade negotiations is all about.
For example, are we going to allow US firms access to health care provision in the UK? Are we going to allow American foods and agricultural products to be sold in the UK, because currently most are banned because they don't meet British and/or EU standards? Where is the any court of arbitration and conflict resolution going to sit? Will any court of arbitration base its rullings on British Law, US Law or some other neutral system of law.
The only thing that could be agreed in 90 days would be removal of tariffs, the rest will take years and quiet possibly a lot of years to agree. And at the end of it all we may get a trade deal with the US but if it works better for the UK than the US then Donald just gives us 30 days notice and the deal is over.
So we do a deal which works in favour of the US or we really have no deal at all. Centura is right 'no deal is better than a bad deal' but what's the point of even beginning to negotiate a deal with the US if the only choice is a deal that works for the US or no real, long lasting deal at all? |
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As a point of information.
We do about £250 billion of trade with the EU
We do about £30 billion of trade with the US.
What this means is that if we lost 10% of our trade with the EU even an increase by 100% of our trade with the US would only just about make up the difference.
Go figure which relationship is more important to get right. |
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"I didn't realise this. The average tariff between the EU and the US is only about 2% though obviously no, very complicated, regulatory agreement.
http://newscdn.newsrep.net/h5/nrshare.html?r=3&lan=en_GB&pid=14&id=OK7ce289f0o_uk&app_lan=&mcc=234&declared_lan=en_GB&pubaccount=ocms_0&referrer=200620&showall=1&mcc=234
What's to gain then?
Removing tariffs between the US and UK would be a good thing, in same way that introducing tariffs between the UK and the EU would be a bad thing. However tariffs are not the real barriers trade, regulations are. Currently we have a common system of regulations with the EU so there are few if any hidden barriers. That's not the situation with the US. Removing those non tariff barriers is what trade negotiations is all about.
For example, are we going to allow US firms access to health care provision in the UK? Are we going to allow American foods and agricultural products to be sold in the UK, because currently most are banned because they don't meet British and/or EU standards? Where is the any court of arbitration and conflict resolution going to sit? Will any court of arbitration base its rullings on British Law, US Law or some other neutral system of law.
The only thing that could be agreed in 90 days would be removal of tariffs, the rest will take years and quiet possibly a lot of years to agree. And at the end of it all we may get a trade deal with the US but if it works better for the UK than the US then Donald just gives us 30 days notice and the deal is over.
So we do a deal which works in favour of the US or we really have no deal at all. Centura is right 'no deal is better than a bad deal' but what's the point of even beginning to negotiate a deal with the US if the only choice is a deal that works for the US or no real, long lasting deal at all?"
Very true that tariffs are not the big issue ( though tant UK US deal will not be better than the existing tariffs).
The key will be standards and certification.
If UK wishes to export to the EU it will continue to have to obey EU laws; anything technical, for instance, will have to have an EU Certificate if Conformity ( cars, machinery, medical goods, etc etc)
Goods will still have to confirm to CE standards,
Services must also conform to the standards.
Presently it is easy as members of the EU, as an outside agency, it will be more difficult.
Trading goods and services with the US will require many different standards ; this is not something simple.
Any manufacturer who exports to both the US and the EU and rest of the world already knows the hoops they have to jump through.
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By *oo hot OP Couple
over a year ago
North West |
"I didn't realise this. The average tariff between the EU and the US is only about 2% though obviously no, very complicated, regulatory agreement.
http://newscdn.newsrep.net/h5/nrshare.html?r=3&lan=en_GB&pid=14&id=OK7ce289f0o_uk&app_lan=&mcc=234&declared_lan=en_GB&pubaccount=ocms_0&referrer=200620&showall=1&mcc=234
What's to gain then?
Removing tariffs between the US and UK would be a good thing, in same way that introducing tariffs between the UK and the EU would be a bad thing. However tariffs are not the real barriers trade, regulations are. Currently we have a common system of regulations with the EU so there are few if any hidden barriers. That's not the situation with the US. Removing those non tariff barriers is what trade negotiations is all about.
For example, are we going to allow US firms access to health care provision in the UK? Are we going to allow American foods and agricultural products to be sold in the UK, because currently most are banned because they don't meet British and/or EU standards? Where is the any court of arbitration and conflict resolution going to sit? Will any court of arbitration base its rullings on British Law, US Law or some other neutral system of law.
The only thing that could be agreed in 90 days would be removal of tariffs, the rest will take years and quiet possibly a lot of years to agree. And at the end of it all we may get a trade deal with the US but if it works better for the UK than the US then Donald just gives us 30 days notice and the deal is over.
So we do a deal which works in favour of the US or we really have no deal at all. Centura is right 'no deal is better than a bad deal' but what's the point of even beginning to negotiate a deal with the US if the only choice is a deal that works for the US or no real, long lasting deal at all?"
These are very good points and you are quite right to make the observation that trade is more about regulation than tariffs. The CE kite mark makes life so much easier for everyone and it has been a barrier for US companies exporting into the EU. Do we drop our standards so that US companies can export to the UK? |
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"
So Do we drop our standards so that US companies can export to the UK? "
This is the burning issue;
US goods are, by and large, unable to attain EU or UK standards for safety, recyclability, reliability or quality , or emissions.
US food largely cannot pass standards for quality, levels of pesticides, or levels of antibiotics, nor can US goods largely pass the bar for many other ecological or ethical reasons ( the US hate that).
So it is entirely pusdible that UK may have to drop standards to accept US goods.
The US certainly won't up their standards to UK demands; it will be take it or leave it.
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"I didn't realise this. The average tariff between the EU and the US is only about 2% though obviously no, very complicated, regulatory agreement.
http://newscdn.newsrep.net/h5/nrshare.html?r=3&lan=en_GB&pid=14&id=OK7ce289f0o_uk&app_lan=&mcc=234&declared_lan=en_GB&pubaccount=ocms_0&referrer=200620&showall=1&mcc=234
What's to gain then?
Removing tariffs between the US and UK would be a good thing, in same way that introducing tariffs between the UK and the EU would be a bad thing. However tariffs are not the real barriers trade, regulations are. Currently we have a common system of regulations with the EU so there are few if any hidden barriers. That's not the situation with the US. Removing those non tariff barriers is what trade negotiations is all about.
For example, are we going to allow US firms access to health care provision in the UK? Are we going to allow American foods and agricultural products to be sold in the UK, because currently most are banned because they don't meet British and/or EU standards? Where is the any court of arbitration and conflict resolution going to sit? Will any court of arbitration base its rullings on British Law, US Law or some other neutral system of law.
The only thing that could be agreed in 90 days would be removal of tariffs, the rest will take years and quiet possibly a lot of years to agree. And at the end of it all we may get a trade deal with the US but if it works better for the UK than the US then Donald just gives us 30 days notice and the deal is over.
So we do a deal which works in favour of the US or we really have no deal at all. Centura is right 'no deal is better than a bad deal' but what's the point of even beginning to negotiate a deal with the US if the only choice is a deal that works for the US or no real, long lasting deal at all?
These are very good points and you are quite right to make the observation that trade is more about regulation than tariffs. The CE kite mark makes life so much easier for everyone and it has been a barrier for US companies exporting into the EU. Do we drop our standards so that US companies can export to the UK? "
The real big question is who decides what's a real standard and what's just a hidden trade barrier.
Take chickens for example. In the US they are allowed to wash their Chicken meat in Chlorinated water whereas in the EU this is banned. (Chlorinated water is what we all get from our types both here, in the US and the EU).
Clearly a high level of Chlorine in the water could be harmful but also, just as clearly, levels of Chlorine in the water used to wash the chicken meat at about the same level as we currently drink from our taps probably isn't too much of a risk to anyone.
So is this a real safety standard or a hidden trade barrier? More importantly who decides. Does the US decide - They clearly don't see the levels of Chlorine used as harmful so they would decide it's a hidden trade barrier. Does the UK decide - We believe that Chlorine is dangerous as should only be used where no other method of cleaning is possible so no Chlorine is always safer than any Chlorine.
The only way around these sorts of problems is to have an independent body look at all the evidence and make a ruling on what is a safety standard and what is really just a hidden trade barrier - Maybe we'd call such a body the North Atlantic Court of Justice?
For a truly free trade agreement to work at all WE (the UK) will have to accept rulings on arbitration from a court, tribunal or what ever you want to call it, that is not bound or solely answerable to UK. There is no way round it. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"
The real big question is who decides what's a real standard and what's just a hidden trade barrier.
Take chickens for example. In the US they are allowed to wash their Chicken meat in Chlorinated water whereas in the EU this is banned. (Chlorinated water is what we all get from our types both here, in the US and the EU).
Clearly a high level of Chlorine in the water could be harmful but also, just as clearly, levels of Chlorine in the water used to wash the chicken meat at about the same level as we currently drink from our taps probably isn't too much of a risk to anyone.
So is this a real safety standard or a hidden trade barrier? More importantly who decides. Does the US decide - They clearly don't see the levels of Chlorine used as harmful so they would decide it's a hidden trade barrier. Does the UK decide - We believe that Chlorine is dangerous as should only be used where no other method of cleaning is possible so no Chlorine is always safer than any Chlorine.
The only way around these sorts of problems is to have an independent body look at all the evidence and make a ruling on what is a safety standard and what is really just a hidden trade barrier - Maybe we'd call such a body the North Atlantic Court of Justice?
For a truly free trade agreement to work at all WE (the UK) will have to accept rulings on arbitration from a court, tribunal or what ever you want to call it, that is not bound or solely answerable to UK. There is no way round it. "
Chlorine washing allows you to sterilise meat that has been stored in sub-optimal conditions. The process is safe, the point is about why it is employed.
That doesn't alter your basic premise though which is the complicated bit. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Looks like a cunt will be grabbing the cunt of another cunt... and we're the ones getting fucked up the arse...
xx
and she will give our nhs away just to get some crumbs of trade ,this is what the tories have wanted for a long time "
It was only the UK that was enthusiastic about this in TTIP. I'm not sure that our political class is very good at making trade decisions, but we are going to give them full control. Oh, wait we're getting control, or is it Parliament? What control? Perhaps we should have a referendum?  |
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"Looks like a cunt will be grabbing the cunt of another cunt... and we're the ones getting fucked up the arse...
xx
and she will give our nhs away just to get some crumbs of trade ,this is what the tories have wanted for a long time
It was only the UK that was enthusiastic about this in TTIP. I'm not sure that our political class is very good at making trade decisions, but we are going to give them full control. Oh, wait we're getting control, or is it Parliament? What control? Perhaps we should have a referendum? "
Exactly
The EU sank TTIP because they found that the US would not budge on the matter of the US having total control.
U.K. Was protected at the time, by that, even though the UK government was fighting hard for TTIP to be implemented.
The UK population has no protection from it now; and the UK government wants TTIP as it needs money for short term funding of the NHS ;it will liquidate capital by selling assets and service providing to the US companies, which is simply an extension of the PFI deal, which is one of the reasons that the NHS is now bankrupt.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Two opinions seem to be prevailing:
1) May is getting in early to reinforce the special relationship and convince Britain and the world that the UK can still performon the big stage.
2) May is walking into a Trump trap, to be used as a means for the US to break up the EU and thereby have the ability to negotiate US favourable trade deals with a large number of smaller economies as opposed to a net equal trade deal with the equivalent EU economy.
What are you thoughts?
I hope that I am wrong, but I think that May is being too hasty and that Trump will later state or tweet comments made between him and May that will ultimately prove unhelpful for the UK and to which May will be forced to either rebuke and weaken the UK or accept and compromise herself. My opinion is that Trump wants to destroy the EU and he sees the UK as his vehicle to do that."
So far it has gone very well for both, even with the BBC trying to stir shit and fuck things up before both countries get a chance. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"
So far it has gone very well for both, even with the BBC trying to stir shit and fuck things up before both countries get a chance."
Trump did his best to blow it up by indicating how splendid torture is  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
So far it has gone very well for both, even with the BBC trying to stir shit and fuck things up before both countries get a chance.
Trump did his best to blow it up by indicating how splendid torture is "
He did continue to say he backs it, but he has been over ridden, and respects advice of "the man in charge" |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
So far it has gone very well for both, even with the BBC trying to stir shit and fuck things up before both countries get a chance.
Trump did his best to blow it up by indicating how splendid torture is
He did continue to say he backs it, but he has been over ridden, and respects advice of "the man in charge""
Seeing May and Trump are committed to NATO. How much more will we have to contribute? |
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By *osieWoman
over a year ago
Wembley |
"Is it just me or is everyone else having
a problem with the right hand side of
long lines not displaying properly?
"
You lot from ooop Norf come over here; take all our jobs and our women and break our forum |
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"Is it just me or is everyone else having
a problem with the right hand side of
long lines not displaying properly?
You lot from ooop Norf come over here; take all our jobs and our women and break our forum "
It's my pleasure.  |
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By *aucy3Couple
over a year ago
glasgow |
"Two opinions seem to be prevailing:
1) May is getting in early to reinforce the special relationship and convince Britain and the world that the UK can still performon the big stage.
2) May is walking into a Trump trap, to be used as a means for the US to break up the EU and thereby have the ability to negotiate US favourable trade deals with a large number of smaller economies as opposed to a net equal trade deal with the equivalent EU economy.
What are you thoughts?
I hope that I am wrong, but I think that May is being too hasty and that Trump will later state or tweet comments made between him and May that will ultimately prove unhelpful for the UK and to which May will be forced to either rebuke and weaken the UK or accept and compromise herself. My opinion is that Trump wants to destroy the EU and he sees the UK as his vehicle to do that."
3)the UK is coveted by two competing forces.
Let the competition begin.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
So far it has gone very well for both, even with the BBC trying to stir shit and fuck things up before both countries get a chance.
Trump did his best to blow it up by indicating how splendid torture is
He did continue to say he backs it, but he has been over ridden, and respects advice of "the man in charge"
Seeing May and Trump are committed to NATO. How much more will we have to contribute? "
as May said; we will continue paying our 2% and we will encourage all other member countries to do the same |
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They clearly don't get on;
Body language tells all;
She dislikes him immensely, but I think she must have stood up to him, as his stance told us that he was a bit on the back foot ; obviously he doesn't like a woman standing her ground.
They didn't say much in the conference except platitudes;
He went off on one about his torture and walk; and also showed a complete misunderstanding of UK's position in Europe.
May's NATO ambush was perhaps a good idea, but clumsy; she clearly had it on her list to get something out of him on NATO, but he obviously hadn't said to her he was 100% committed" to NATO; she out the words out there in an attempt to get him supporting NATO publicly, but he actually clammed when she said it and it really annoyed him.
She jet her guard down when he grabbed her hand; big PR mistake.
She was clearly glad when it was over; she was shitting bricks.
But good on her for getting through it.
The end result is that for those who think May and Trump are good; it looked good and reinforced that view;
For those that think they are both a pair of cunts, it reinforced their view.
May did about as good as she could. |
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