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What the other Brexit half thinks 2

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By *LCC OP Couple over a year ago

Cambridge

"We currently have FTA with Norway, Turkey, Switzerland and South Korea (to name just a few).

Does anyone dispute that we will lose these FTA in March 2019 or whenever the article 50 negotiations are concluded?

When will we sign new FTA with these countries?

So no Leaver can answer this?

Can any Remainer answer it?

But you keep saying how good brexit will be for free trade, but these are FTA that we currently have, but will lose.

The question was when will we sign new agreements. How the fook can anyone answer that, leaver or remainer?

Right, so can you finally accept that we will have less FTA when we leave, than we have today?

So still no Brexiter willing to accept reality then? "

we probably will have yes and so will the EU. So what? We will make deals on our terms. You think the EU will get as good as deals as they would have without the UK being a part of it? Not a chance. They will need to do a good deal with the UK just to stand still. Are you a defeatist about everything? "

At least someone from the Brexit side finally accepts that we will have less free trade agreements when we leave the EU than we do today.

There is absolutely nothing defeatist about accepting the reality of the situation.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

sounds like you have a crystal ball and can predict the future

then again, perhaps not

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"We currently have FTA with Norway, Turkey, Switzerland and South Korea (to name just a few).

Does anyone dispute that we will lose these FTA in March 2019 or whenever the article 50 negotiations are concluded?

When will we sign new FTA with these countries?

So no Leaver can answer this?

Can any Remainer answer it?

But you keep saying how good brexit will be for free trade, but these are FTA that we currently have, but will lose.

The question was when will we sign new agreements. How the fook can anyone answer that, leaver or remainer?

Right, so can you finally accept that we will have less FTA when we leave, than we have today?

So still no Brexiter willing to accept reality then? "

At least someone from the Brexit side finally accepts that we will have less free trade agreements when we leave the EU than we do today.

There is absolutely nothing defeatist about accepting the reality of the situation.

At the precise moment we leave the EU, yes, we will have less free trade agreements. But...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"We currently have FTA with Norway, Turkey, Switzerland and South Korea (to name just a few).

Does anyone dispute that we will lose these FTA in March 2019 or whenever the article 50 negotiations are concluded?

When will we sign new FTA with these countries?

So no Leaver can answer this?

Can any Remainer answer it?

But you keep saying how good brexit will be for free trade, but these are FTA that we currently have, but will lose.

The question was when will we sign new agreements. How the fook can anyone answer that, leaver or remainer?

Right, so can you finally accept that we will have less FTA when we leave, than we have today?

So still no Brexiter willing to accept reality then? "

At least someone from the Brexit side finally accepts that we will have less free trade agreements when we leave the EU than we do today.

There is absolutely nothing defeatist about accepting the reality of the situation.

are all the trade agreements that the EU have arranged for us beneficial to us now? Do you know?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I fail to see any Brexit benefits there is no way you can convince a logical person that leaving a market that account for 44% of your exports will be better for you ..I just fail to see the logic in that

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By *ercuryMan over a year ago

Grantham

"I fail to see any Brexit benefits there is no way you can convince a logical person that leaving a market that account for 44% of your exports will be better for you ..I just fail to see the logic in that "

And agreements can't be renegotiated?

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By *LCC OP Couple over a year ago

Cambridge

"sounds like you have a crystal ball and can predict the future

then again, perhaps not

It is nothing to do we having a crystal ball. By what mechanism do we retain our FTAs with Norway and Switzerland and South Korea and Turkey (and others) on the day after we leave the EU. Explain it to me.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

And agreements can't be renegotiated? "
you join a gym you pay the membership fee ..you decide you don't like it you stop paying fee and leave the gym ...now you go back to the gym manager to negotiate a deal to use the gym and not pay the fee

.how do you Think that conversation is gona go?

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By *LCC OP Couple over a year ago

Cambridge

"We currently have FTA with Norway, Turkey, Switzerland and South Korea (to name just a few).

Does anyone dispute that we will lose these FTA in March 2019 or whenever the article 50 negotiations are concluded?

When will we sign new FTA with these countries?

So no Leaver can answer this?

Can any Remainer answer it?

But you keep saying how good brexit will be for free trade, but these are FTA that we currently have, but will lose.

The question was when will we sign new agreements. How the fook can anyone answer that, leaver or remainer?

Right, so can you finally accept that we will have less FTA when we leave, than we have today?

So still no Brexiter willing to accept reality then? "

At least someone from the Brexit side finally accepts that we will have less free trade agreements when we leave the EU than we do today.

There is absolutely nothing defeatist about accepting the reality of the situation.

are all the trade agreements that the EU have arranged for us beneficial to us now? Do you know?"

You are asking is having a FTA better than not having a FTA? So I'm assuming you dont believe in FTA then? I thought the Brexit plan was to turn us into a beacon of free trade?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

And agreements can't be renegotiated? you join a gym you pay the membership fee ..you decide you don't like it you stop paying fee and leave the gym ...now you go back to the gym manager to negotiate a deal to use the gym and not pay the fee

.how do you Think that conversation is gona go?"

poor example, gym is a one way service

try harder

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By *ercuryMan over a year ago

Grantham

.how do you Think that conversation is gona go?"

It's going to go as all negotiations go, when BOTH parties have something that the other wants.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

.how do you Think that conversation is gona go?

poor example, gym is a one way service

try harder"
I could use many examples in any business or political partnership both parties are there because of mutual gain

.the whole point of Brexit is because the some people think the UK is not getting enough for what it's paying ...so tell me what is there for the EU to Gain by giving Britain a better deal than it already had when it was a member?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

.how do you Think that conversation is gona go?

It's going to go as all negotiations go, when BOTH parties have something that the other wants."
and what does the UK have that the EU doesn't have and so desperately wants?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

.how do you Think that conversation is gona go?

poor example, gym is a one way service

try harder I could use many examples in any business or political partnership both parties are there because of mutual gain

The EU countries will gain continued trade, of which they trade more to us they we do to them, do you not agree

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By *ercuryMan over a year ago

Grantham

.how do you Think that conversation is gona go?

It's going to go as all negotiations go, when BOTH parties have something that the other wants. and what does the UK have that the EU doesn't have and so desperately wants?"

A huge market place

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By *ercuryMan over a year ago

Grantham

.how do you Think that conversation is gona go?

poor example, gym is a one way service

try harder I could use many examples in any business or political partnership both parties are there because of mutual gain

I see that you are from the affluent south. If you ever venture upto the wastelands of the middle and the North, then you will see that Brexit wasn't just or ever about our contribution.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

.how do you Think that conversation is gona go?

poor example, gym is a one way service

try harder I could use many examples in any business or political partnership both parties are there because of mutual gain

The EU countries will gain continued trade, of which they trade more to us they we do to them, do you not agree"
no they don't total UK exports to the EU 44% total EU exports to the UK 7% ...now some individual countries export more and make more money from the UK like Germany BUT no EU country can negotiate trade deals on its on you can only negotiate with the whole EU or non of it so I ask which is more 44% or 7%?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

.how do you Think that conversation is gona go?

It's going to go as all negotiations go, when BOTH parties have something that the other wants. and what does the UK have that the EU doesn't have and so desperately wants?

A huge market place"
ok so turn around on its head if no deal is made the EU lose access to 65 million customers...and the UK lose access to 450 million customers so who has the most to lose?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

.how do you Think that conversation is gona go?

poor example, gym is a one way service

try harder I could use many examples in any business or political partnership both parties are there because of mutual gain

The EU countries will gain continued trade, of which they trade more to us they we do to them, do you not agree no they don't total UK exports to the EU 44% total EU exports to the UK 7% ...now some individual countries export more and make more money from the UK like Germany BUT no EU country can negotiate trade deals on its on you can only negotiate with the whole EU or non of it so I ask which is more 44% or 7%?"

Do YOU; honestly, truthfully think that "we" the UK are going to be the only country to leave the EU ???

Truthful answer now

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Instead of focusing on what the Uk will lose try looking objectively at what the Eu will lose and if you cannot see that try looking at the direction in which the Eu is going.

Myself personally I would rather have stayed a member of the Eu but sadly we cannot have it both ways.

The Eu needs to change how it operates and they are blatantly not going to do that and if anything is pushing for further integration while ignoring a massive chunk of its citizens europe wide.

I honestly do not think the Uk will be the last to leave.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

.how do you Think that conversation is gona go?

It's going to go as all negotiations go, when BOTH parties have something that the other wants. and what does the UK have that the EU doesn't have and so desperately wants?

A huge market place ok so turn around on its head if no deal is made the EU lose access to 65 million customers...and the UK lose access to 450 million customers so who has the most to lose?"

It is not a tit for tat process. We both have the potential to lose and gain in various ways.

The EU are not going to say "Stuff free trade." It would not be in their interests.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"We currently have FTA with Norway, Turkey, Switzerland and South Korea (to name just a few).

Does anyone dispute that we will lose these FTA in March 2019 or whenever the article 50 negotiations are concluded?

When will we sign new FTA with these countries?

So no Leaver can answer this?

Can any Remainer answer it?

But you keep saying how good brexit will be for free trade, but these are FTA that we currently have, but will lose.

The question was when will we sign new agreements. How the fook can anyone answer that, leaver or remainer?

Right, so can you finally accept that we will have less FTA when we leave, than we have today?

So still no Brexiter willing to accept reality then? "

At least someone from the Brexit side finally accepts that we will have less free trade agreements when we leave the EU than we do today.

There is absolutely nothing defeatist about accepting the reality of the situation.

are all the trade agreements that the EU have arranged for us beneficial to us now? Do you know?

You are asking is having a FTA better than not having a FTA? So I'm assuming you dont believe in FTA then? I thought the Brexit plan was to turn us into a beacon of free trade? "

no I am not asking that. I am asking if we could have got better deals. You can have a free trade deal but protect one particular sector for example. You know when you said on the other thread you're not an idiot?

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By *LCC OP Couple over a year ago

Cambridge

"We currently have FTA with Norway, Turkey, Switzerland and South Korea (to name just a few).

Does anyone dispute that we will lose these FTA in March 2019 or whenever the article 50 negotiations are concluded?

When will we sign new FTA with these countries?

So no Leaver can answer this?

Can any Remainer answer it?

But you keep saying how good brexit will be for free trade, but these are FTA that we currently have, but will lose.

The question was when will we sign new agreements. How the fook can anyone answer that, leaver or remainer?

Right, so can you finally accept that we will have less FTA when we leave, than we have today?

So still no Brexiter willing to accept reality then? "

At least someone from the Brexit side finally accepts that we will have less free trade agreements when we leave the EU than we do today.

There is absolutely nothing defeatist about accepting the reality of the situation.

are all the trade agreements that the EU have arranged for us beneficial to us now? Do you know?

You are asking is having a FTA better than not having a FTA? So I'm assuming you dont believe in FTA then? I thought the Brexit plan was to turn us into a beacon of free trade?

Which FTA that was negotiated between 500m people EU and a 3rd country do you think will be better when negotiated by a 65m UK and the same third country?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

.how do you Think that conversation is gona go?

poor example, gym is a one way service

try harder I could use many examples in any business or political partnership both parties are there because of mutual gain

Do YOU; honestly, truthfully think that "we" the UK are going to be the only country to leave the EU ???

Truthful answer now"
and what do you think will happen when more countries in the EU start leaving...the EU is the second largest trading block in the world if that ends and the euro goes down the pan it will be a global recession talking Britain down with it

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

.how do you Think that conversation is gona go?

poor example, gym is a one way service

try harder I could use many examples in any business or political partnership both parties are there because of mutual gain

Do YOU; honestly, truthfully think that "we" the UK are going to be the only country to leave the EU ???

Truthful answer now and what do you think will happen when more countries in the EU start leaving...the EU is the second largest trading block in the world if that ends and the euro goes down the pan it will be a global recession talking Britain down with it "

Remember we are already in the process of leaving, has the world gone to hell, no, we continue to get on with life, and it will be no different when other countries sign up to leave

welcome to change

things never stay the same for ever

How do YOU deal with change (and no, its not an interview question) do you relish it

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"We currently have FTA with Norway, Turkey, Switzerland and South Korea (to name just a few).

Does anyone dispute that we will lose these FTA in March 2019 or whenever the article 50 negotiations are concluded?

When will we sign new FTA with these countries?

So no Leaver can answer this?

Can any Remainer answer it?

But you keep saying how good brexit will be for free trade, but these are FTA that we currently have, but will lose.

The question was when will we sign new agreements. How the fook can anyone answer that, leaver or remainer?

Right, so can you finally accept that we will have less FTA when we leave, than we have today?

So still no Brexiter willing to accept reality then? "

At least someone from the Brexit side finally accepts that we will have less free trade agreements when we leave the EU than we do today.

There is absolutely nothing defeatist about accepting the reality of the situation.

are all the trade agreements that the EU have arranged for us beneficial to us now? Do you know?

You are asking is having a FTA better than not having a FTA? So I'm assuming you dont believe in FTA then? I thought the Brexit plan was to turn us into a beacon of free trade?

Which FTA that was negotiated between 500m people EU and a 3rd country do you think will be better when negotiated by a 65m UK and the same third country? "

pretty much any of them

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"We currently have FTA with Norway, Turkey, Switzerland and South Korea (to name just a few).

Does anyone dispute that we will lose these FTA in March 2019 or whenever the article 50 negotiations are concluded?

When will we sign new FTA with these countries?

So no Leaver can answer this?

Can any Remainer answer it?

But you keep saying how good brexit will be for free trade, but these are FTA that we currently have, but will lose.

The question was when will we sign new agreements. How the fook can anyone answer that, leaver or remainer?

Right, so can you finally accept that we will have less FTA when we leave, than we have today?

So still no Brexiter willing to accept reality then? "

At least someone from the Brexit side finally accepts that we will have less free trade agreements when we leave the EU than we do today.

There is absolutely nothing defeatist about accepting the reality of the situation.

are all the trade agreements that the EU have arranged for us beneficial to us now? Do you know?

You are asking is having a FTA better than not having a FTA? So I'm assuming you dont believe in FTA then? I thought the Brexit plan was to turn us into a beacon of free trade?

Which FTA that was negotiated between 500m people EU and a 3rd country do you think will be better when negotiated by a 65m UK and the same third country? "

The trouble with negotiating a trade deal from within the EU is the number of member states with vested self interests. I don't have any real knowledge of the ins and outs of the deals that have been negotiated so cannot comment on the outcomes but a deal negotiated directly between our country and another is likely to be quicker, easier and more tailored to us than done from within the EU.

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By *LCC OP Couple over a year ago

Cambridge

"We currently have FTA with Norway, Turkey, Switzerland and South Korea (to name just a few).

Does anyone dispute that we will lose these FTA in March 2019 or whenever the article 50 negotiations are concluded?

When will we sign new FTA with these countries?

So no Leaver can answer this?

Can any Remainer answer it?

But you keep saying how good brexit will be for free trade, but these are FTA that we currently have, but will lose.

The question was when will we sign new agreements. How the fook can anyone answer that, leaver or remainer?

Right, so can you finally accept that we will have less FTA when we leave, than we have today?

So still no Brexiter willing to accept reality then? "

At least someone from the Brexit side finally accepts that we will have less free trade agreements when we leave the EU than we do today.

There is absolutely nothing defeatist about accepting the reality of the situation.

are all the trade agreements that the EU have arranged for us beneficial to us now? Do you know?

You are asking is having a FTA better than not having a FTA? So I'm assuming you dont believe in FTA then? I thought the Brexit plan was to turn us into a beacon of free trade?

Which FTA that was negotiated between 500m people EU and a 3rd country do you think will be better when negotiated by a 65m UK and the same third country?

Or the alternative way to look at it, is the reason why trade blocks develop is because collective bargaining means everyone gets a better deal than if they were trying to negotiate alone. 500m customers are a lot more attractive than 65m.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"We currently have FTA with Norway, Turkey, Switzerland and South Korea (to name just a few).

Does anyone dispute that we will lose these FTA in March 2019 or whenever the article 50 negotiations are concluded?

When will we sign new FTA with these countries?

So no Leaver can answer this?

Can any Remainer answer it?

But you keep saying how good brexit will be for free trade, but these are FTA that we currently have, but will lose.

The question was when will we sign new agreements. How the fook can anyone answer that, leaver or remainer?

Right, so can you finally accept that we will have less FTA when we leave, than we have today?

So still no Brexiter willing to accept reality then? "

At least someone from the Brexit side finally accepts that we will have less free trade agreements when we leave the EU than we do today.

There is absolutely nothing defeatist about accepting the reality of the situation.

are all the trade agreements that the EU have arranged for us beneficial to us now? Do you know?

You are asking is having a FTA better than not having a FTA? So I'm assuming you dont believe in FTA then? I thought the Brexit plan was to turn us into a beacon of free trade?

Which FTA that was negotiated between 500m people EU and a 3rd country do you think will be better when negotiated by a 65m UK and the same third country?

Or that the members of the trade block get a compromised deal.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"We currently have FTA with Norway, Turkey, Switzerland and South Korea (to name just a few).

Does anyone dispute that we will lose these FTA in March 2019 or whenever the article 50 negotiations are concluded?

When will we sign new FTA with these countries?

So no Leaver can answer this?

Can any Remainer answer it?

But you keep saying how good brexit will be for free trade, but these are FTA that we currently have, but will lose.

The question was when will we sign new agreements. How the fook can anyone answer that, leaver or remainer?

Right, so can you finally accept that we will have less FTA when we leave, than we have today?

So still no Brexiter willing to accept reality then? "

At least someone from the Brexit side finally accepts that we will have less free trade agreements when we leave the EU than we do today.

There is absolutely nothing defeatist about accepting the reality of the situation.

are all the trade agreements that the EU have arranged for us beneficial to us now? Do you know?

You are asking is having a FTA better than not having a FTA? So I'm assuming you dont believe in FTA then? I thought the Brexit plan was to turn us into a beacon of free trade?

Which FTA that was negotiated between 500m people EU and a 3rd country do you think will be better when negotiated by a 65m UK and the same third country?

if a free trade deal is a free trade deal what difference does numbers make?

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By *asyukMan over a year ago

West London

When I originally posted this thread I asked if the the leave side could reassure the remainers.

It was, and is, a simple request.

Nobody has even tried.

If Brexit is going to work, the country needs to function together as a unit, but in my experience telling nearly half the population that they are whinging, negative fools is unlikely to achieve that.

Does anyone want to try? Telling us that "we will get great deals", "beautiful deals" is a bit empty.

I'd welcome a general plan that is a bit more than a wish list.

However, if you prefer here are two basic questions:

Why would the EU give us a better deal than they give to their own members?

What do we have in the asymmetric economic relationship between the USA or China that means that we can secure trade deals that give us access to their markets but doesn't threaten our industries?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"When I originally posted this thread I asked if the the leave side could reassure the remainers.

It was, and is, a simple request.

Nobody has even tried.

Does anyone want to try? Telling us that "we will get great deals", "beautiful deals" is a bit empty.

I'd welcome a general plan that is a bit more than a wish list.

However, if you prefer here are two basic questions:

Why would the EU give us a better deal than they give to their own members?

What do we have in the asymmetric economic relationship between the USA or China that means that we can secure trade deals that give us access to their markets but doesn't threaten our industries?"

You did indeed, which in itself is a skewed question.

I could ask what the stay side could do to reassure leavers that the EU would make things better (and, perhaps, to survive as an organisation). Your question was weighted, as of course it would be. The problem you have there is that Mr Cameron approached the EU and got told exactly what the EU were prepared to do. Fook all.

A better deal? Well, that depends on the deal, and your view of it. You, too, seem to think that the EU will not offer us a "better deal" than their member states enjoy. How do you define "better?" It is not a tit-for-tat situation.

As for deals with others that do not threaten our own industries, that is a very complex issue indeed. Bloody economists, eh? I read an article on BBC News today about economic theories on free trade agreements. I can't admit to following it all. Have a look yourself.

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By *asyukMan over a year ago

West London

You did indeed, which in itself is a skewed question.

It's not at all skewed. Remain lost as is constantly repeated. What Cameron and the EU did is now utterly irrelevant.

How do you reassure remainders and unite the country?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

You did indeed, which in itself is a skewed question.

It's not at all skewed. Remain lost as is constantly repeated. What Cameron and the EU did is now utterly irrelevant.

How do you reassure remainders and unite the country?"

if remain had won, how would you unite the country?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

You did indeed, which in itself is a skewed question.

It's not at all skewed. Remain lost as is constantly repeated. What Cameron and the EU did is now utterly irrelevant.

How do you reassure remainders and unite the country?"

Oh yes it is. Oh no it isn't. Behind you.

How would you have reassured the leavers and have united the country?

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By *asyukMan over a year ago

West London

if remain had won, how would you unite the country?"

It didn't though did it? So, how about answering the relevant question?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The EU has created the first generation who will be worse off than their parents. Thousands of youngsters are fleeing Europe. When will remainers open their eyes?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

if remain had won, how would you unite the country?

It didn't though did it? So, how about answering the relevant question?"

I answered your post. Try answering some yourself.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

if remain had won, how would you unite the country?

It didn't though did it? So, how about answering the relevant question?"

because as I said before, it is up to you!

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By *asyukMan over a year ago

West London

Oh yes it is. Oh no it isn't. Behind you.

How would you have reassured the leavers and have united the country?"

Again, to you as well we are leaving the EU so the only pertinent question is how you get the UK to function under those circumstances.

Also, continuing to say all this trade stuff is complicated I don't know how it will work out but I'm certain it will be better is not a very strong argument. If you can offer more than hope and belief then please have the courtesy to explain.

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By *asyukMan over a year ago

West London

"The EU has created the first generation who will be worse off than their parents. Thousands of youngsters are fleeing Europe. When will remainers open their eyes? "

Same in the US. They are not in the EU I believe.

Perhaps there's another mechanism at work?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Oh yes it is. Oh no it isn't. Behind you.

How would you have reassured the leavers and have united the country?

Again, to you as well we are leaving the EU so the only pertinent question is how you get the UK to function under those circumstances.

It really is not the only pertinent question. You believe that staying was the better option. Do you think that was the perfect scenario?

Since you are saying that we will be so much worse off, please use valid comparisons.

I am not saying that life after Brexit will be a land of milk and honey but I do believe it will be better. No EU restrictions on trade deals. No massive contributions. No acceptance of the European cultural legal system.

That sort of thing. As opposed to staying in a system that does not suit us.

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By *oo hotCouple over a year ago

North West

"The EU has created the first generation who will be worse off than their parents. Thousands of youngsters are fleeing Europe. When will remainers open their eyes? "

I didn't know that Australia and the United States of America were in the EU? Oddly, they have the same problems. Fuck it - blame the EU, it is flavour of the month even if it is complete bollocks.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The EU has created the first generation who will be worse off than their parents. Thousands of youngsters are fleeing Europe. When will remainers open their eyes?

Same in the US. They are not in the EU I believe.

Perhaps there's another mechanism at work?"

then its time for change is it not. Look at the poverty levels and unemployment rates across the EU caused by protectionism and the inability to trade and the disaster that is the euro. It is an idea that just doesn't work and I struggle to understand why you can't see it

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By *oo hotCouple over a year ago

North West

The really illogical thing that no amount of sound bytes and flag waving will change is that the UK went into the EEC simply because successive governments had realised that a post war, ex Colonial nation that was in economic decline could no longer punch its weight on the world's stage. Economic union and strength through numbers has seen the UK change from being the sick man of Europe to becoming one of the strongest economies in the world.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The really illogical thing that no amount of sound bytes and flag waving will change is that the UK went into the EEC simply because successive governments had realised that a post war, ex Colonial nation that was in economic decline could no longer punch its weight on the world's stage. Economic union and strength through numbers has seen the UK change from being the sick man of Europe to becoming one of the strongest economies in the world. "

That is the most illogical flag-waving post that I have ever read on a Brexit thread.

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By *asyukMan over a year ago

West London

It really is not the only pertinent question. You believe that staying was the better option. Do you think that was the perfect scenario?

Since you are saying that we will be so much worse off, please use valid comparisons.

That sort of thing. As opposed to staying in a system that does not suit us."

Actually, relative to you asking me how to unite the country if we'd remained then it is very much more pertinent.

If you have no answer or do not think it's worth worrying about then just say so.

No, it was not perfect. I don't believe that anyone has ever said that it was so I don't really understand why you'd ask again and again.

Valid comparison of what with what?

So you are saying definitely "better" trade? You're also saying that our "unrestricted" trade will definitely be better than what we have now?

Are there any consequences from no longer having any influence in one of the world's three largest economic blocks?

If you believe that the only measure of an investment is an immediate, direct financial benefit and that there are no other measures of value then fine.

Will we be able to replicate the continental scale of science, medical, pharmaceutical and technology investment in the UK to which we currently benefit from?

Is there a possibility that we'll be worse off out of the EU?

I'm very willing to say that there is a possibility that we could completely control immigration and increase the level of international trade with fantastic negotiations and generate growth in industries that generate good, well paying jobs then I will definitely be wrong.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

That is the most illogical flag-waving post that I have ever read on a Brexit thread."
true that not many BREXITers will tell you that the UK was broke and had to be bailed out by the imf before it joined the EU..but now it's the world's 5th largest economy they still say that the EU was bad for Britain

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By *asyukMan over a year ago

West London

That is the most illogical flag-waving post that I have ever read on a Brexit thread."

Except that it's objectively true.

However, data is just numbers. Feelings are what we should base decisions on.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

That is the most illogical flag-waving post that I have ever read on a Brexit thread.

Except that it's objectively true.

However, data is just numbers. Feelings are what we should base decisions on."

Eh? Isn't that a subjective judgement?

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By *isandreTV/TS over a year ago

Durham

"Feelings are what we should base decisions on."

Nailed it.

Fear and emotion trumped logic and reasoning for brexiters unfortunately. Even intelligent people are slaves to how evolution shaped their unconscious mind.

The post truth, fitting arguments to meet a predetermined position rather than arriving at a conclusion based on information is confirmation of that, not to mention the shameful campaign of lies. (cue - you lied too! project fear bullshit, as if it compares to the fucking bus and the nazi style racist posters).

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Feelings are what we should base decisions on.

Nailed it.

Fear and emotion trumped logic and reasoning for brexiters unfortunately. Even intelligent people are slaves to how evolution shaped their unconscious mind.

Eh? What is that about?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Many are leaving uk as a result of it, it is like pre ww2, they saw the signs earlier and escaped.

Lets hope scotland dont get dragged down with uks sinking ship.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It really is not the only pertinent question. You believe that staying was the better option. Do you think that was the perfect scenario?

Since you are saying that we will be so much worse off, please use valid comparisons.

That sort of thing. As opposed to staying in a system that does not suit us.

Actually, relative to you asking me how to unite the country if we'd remained then it is very much more pertinent.

If you have no answer or do not think it's worth worrying about then just say so.

No, it was not perfect. I don't believe that anyone has ever said that it was so I don't really understand why you'd ask again and again.

Valid comparison of what with what?

So you are saying definitely "better" trade? You're also saying that our "unrestricted" trade will definitely be better than what we have now?

Are there any consequences from no longer having any influence in one of the world's three largest economic blocks?

If you believe that the only measure of an investment is an immediate, direct financial benefit and that there are no other measures of value then fine.

Will we be able to replicate the continental scale of science, medical, pharmaceutical and technology investment in the UK to which we currently benefit from?

Is there a possibility that we'll be worse off out of the EU?

I shall try to answer:

The EEC was formed as a trading block which in itself was a perfect ideal for the time.

after half a century it has evolved into a superstate with its own unelected leaders.

We vote for MEP's yet have no vote or control over their bosses. Laws, regulations ect are done in secret without consultation with member states the MEP's are then shown them and asked to basically ratify.

The EU has driven forward with more unification including an army which at this time is still forging ahead under the guise that Trump will pull the plug on nato (the plans for an army have been ongoing for almost 20 years, long before Trump)

Turkey is joining the EU and the rubbish about it still being far from completing the necessary steps before they are allowed entry is just sound bite. Hungary and Bulgaria were allowed entry before they had completed the necessary steps too.

The trade deal we have with the EU is not just free trade, it is trade protectionism too. It protects french farmers interests, spanish fishing ect.. which is why the UK fishermen cannot fish their own waters and British farmers are actually paid to not farm.

The trade block also inhibits cheaper food stuff from non eu countries to enter this country due to high taxes to help protect EU suppliers.

The future of britain is outside the EU.

Yes europe has a market of 500m people, China has over a billion alone. The difference is we cannot use a trade deal at this moment because it has to go through the EU once we leave we can forge our own trade deal that suits us and we can also do that with the US over another billion customers.

As for immigration it annoys me when I hear all this twaddle abour brexiteers being racists.

How can exchanging predominantly white immigrants from the EU be racist when you will be replacing them with others from outside the EU from continents like africa and Asia. (Ps immigration will not fall the workers will just come from elsewhere because we will still need them)

On a personal note I wish we were not leaving but we are and its about time we started looking at the positives of the situation.

Lets not forget we have not left yet. There is still time for us to change our minds and for the EU to start listening to its members. Otherwise other countries will take the same route.

My opinion only.

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By *mmabluTV/TS over a year ago

upton wirral

"We currently have FTA with Norway, Turkey, Switzerland and South Korea (to name just a few).

Does anyone dispute that we will lose these FTA in March 2019 or whenever the article 50 negotiations are concluded?

When will we sign new FTA with these countries?

So no Leaver can answer this?

Can any Remainer answer it?

But you keep saying how good brexit will be for free trade, but these are FTA that we currently have, but will lose.

The question was when will we sign new agreements. How the fook can anyone answer that, leaver or remainer?

Right, so can you finally accept that we will have less FTA when we leave, than we have today?

So still no Brexiter willing to accept reality then? "

At least someone from the Brexit side finally accepts that we will have less free trade agreements when we leave the EU than we do today.

There is absolutely nothing defeatist about accepting the reality of the situation.

are all the trade agreements that the EU have arranged for us beneficial to us now? Do you know?"
Part 2 give it a break for heavens sake when the negotiation is done you will know it should not be public knowledge as we go along.

I am sure that nobody will be 100%happy with it but that is to be expected there will be give and take.

I am sure you will be totally displeased with it as you are a scared of change,now stop moaning and get a life,try some swinging

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By *mmabluTV/TS over a year ago

upton wirral

"We currently have FTA with Norway, Turkey, Switzerland and South Korea (to name just a few).

Does anyone dispute that we will lose these FTA in March 2019 or whenever the article 50 negotiations are concluded?

When will we sign new FTA with these countries?

So no Leaver can answer this?

Can any Remainer answer it?

But you keep saying how good brexit will be for free trade, but these are FTA that we currently have, but will lose.

The question was when will we sign new agreements. How the fook can anyone answer that, leaver or remainer?

Right, so can you finally accept that we will have less FTA when we leave, than we have today?

So still no Brexiter willing to accept reality then? "

At least someone from the Brexit side finally accepts that we will have less free trade agreements when we leave the EU than we do today.

There is absolutely nothing defeatist about accepting the reality of the situation.

How will the EU lose any free trade deals as a result of the UK leaving? If you are counting the single market as 1 FTA rather than 27/8 then the UK leaving doesn't effect the number of FTA that the EU has."
There is more to being in the EU than free trade,we woulds all like that but there must be sacrifice for the greater good

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

If we already have a FTA then all we need to do is re-sign them, exactly as they are the day after...it's a no brainier....if you have a brain....regardless of what side you are on!

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By *LCC OP Couple over a year ago

Cambridge

"If we already have a FTA then all we need to do is re-sign them, exactly as they are the day after...it's a no brainier....if you have a brain....regardless of what side you are on!"

And that FTA agreement says that if there are any problems that can be sorted at the European court of justice, happy to re-sign that?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"If we already have a FTA then all we need to do is re-sign them, exactly as they are the day after...it's a no brainier....if you have a brain....regardless of what side you are on!

And that FTA agreement says that if there are any problems that can be sorted at the European court of justice, happy to re-sign that? "

I am sure minor tweaks would not take two years if thats what they decide to do.

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By *imiUKMan over a year ago

Hereford

"The EU has created the first generation who will be worse off than their parents. Thousands of youngsters are fleeing Europe. When will remainers open their eyes?

Same in the US. They are not in the EU I believe.

Perhaps there's another mechanism at work?"

Surely not....

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By *asyukMan over a year ago

West London

Except that it's objectively true.

However, data is just numbers. Feelings are what we should base decisions on.

Eh? Isn't that a subjective judgement?"

Well, yes. That was sarcasm.

A subjective opinion is all that is ever offered to support leaving. Have you not noticed?

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By *asyukMan over a year ago

West London

"If we already have a FTA then all we need to do is re-sign them, exactly as they are the day after...it's a no brainier....if you have a brain....regardless of what side you are on!"

If you really believe that this is how international agreements work, then I suppose that this does seem easy.

If a working couple has a mortgage and gets divorced and one buys the other out, do they get the same mortgage terms?

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By *oo hotCouple over a year ago

North West

It really is not the only pertinent question. You believe that staying was the better option. Do you think that was the perfect scenario?

Since you are saying that we will be so much worse off, please use valid comparisons.

That sort of thing. As opposed to staying in a system that does not suit us.

Actually, relative to you asking me how to unite the country if we'd remained then it is very much more pertinent.

If you have no answer or do not think it's worth worrying about then just say so.

No, it was not perfect. I don't believe that anyone has ever said that it was so I don't really understand why you'd ask again and again.

Valid comparison of what with what?

So you are saying definitely "better" trade? You're also saying that our "unrestricted" trade will definitely be better than what we have now?

Are there any consequences from no longer having any influence in one of the world's three largest economic blocks?

If you believe that the only measure of an investment is an immediate, direct financial benefit and that there are no other measures of value then fine.

Will we be able to replicate the continental scale of science, medical, pharmaceutical and technology investment in the UK to which we currently benefit from?

Is there a possibility that we'll be worse off out of the EU?

I shall try to answer:

The EEC was formed as a trading block which in itself was a perfect ideal for the time.

after half a century it has evolved into a superstate with its own unelected leaders.

The trade block also inhibits cheaper food stuff from non eu countries to enter this country due to high taxes to help protect EU suppliers.

The future of britain is outside the EU.

As for immigration it annoys me when I hear all this twaddle abour brexiteers being racists.

On a personal note I wish we were not leaving but we are and its about time we started looking at the positives of the situation.

Lets not forget we have not left yet. There is still time for us to change our minds and for the EU to start listening to its members. Otherwise other countries will take the same route.

My opinion only.

Good luck appeasing the Brexit anti globalisation camp proposing a free trade deal with China. They will of course use China as an argument against being a member of the EI, but the reality of a free trade deal with China or indeed India would be far worse for U.K. manufacturing than what we had with the EU.

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By *asyukMan over a year ago

West London

It really is not the only pertinent question. You believe that staying was the better option. Do you think that was the perfect scenario?

Since you are saying that we will be so much worse off, please use valid comparisons.

That sort of thing. As opposed to staying in a system that does not suit us.

Actually, relative to you asking me how to unite the country if we'd remained then it is very much more pertinent.

If you have no answer or do not think it's worth worrying about then just say so.

No, it was not perfect. I don't believe that anyone has ever said that it was so I don't really understand why you'd ask again and again.

Valid comparison of what with what?

So you are saying definitely "better" trade? You're also saying that our "unrestricted" trade will definitely be better than what we have now?

Are there any consequences from no longer having any influence in one of the world's three largest economic blocks?

If you believe that the only measure of an investment is an immediate, direct financial benefit and that there are no other measures of value then fine.

Will we be able to replicate the continental scale of science, medical, pharmaceutical and technology investment in the UK to which we currently benefit from?

Is there a possibility that we'll be worse off out of the EU?

I shall try to answer:

The EEC was formed as a trading block which in itself was a perfect ideal for the time.

after half a century it has evolved into a superstate with its own unelected leaders.

The trade block also inhibits cheaper food stuff from non eu countries to enter this country due to high taxes to help protect EU suppliers.

The future of britain is outside the EU.

As for immigration it annoys me when I hear all this twaddle abour brexiteers being racists.

On a personal note I wish we were not leaving but we are and its about time we started looking at the positives of the situation.

Lets not forget we have not left yet. There is still time for us to change our minds and for the EU to start listening to its members. Otherwise other countries will take the same route.

My opinion only.

Thank you for making the effort to write a considered response. I disagree with a lot and it doesn't help me think that there will be a benefit in leaving, but I don't think that you believe that either.

The EEC was always a political organisation as well as a an economic one. Just because the word "Economic" was in the name it doesn't mean that's what it was all about. We fought very, very hard to get in.

Once again, our governments select Commissioners and no EU law even starts without the Council of Ministers agreeing to it. Again, our governments. The EU has been a very convenient whipping boy which we are about to lose.

Does our Parliament rubber stamp our government policy? What's the difference?

As with many things, the UK was never going to join an EU army. We have had for years a completely unique deal compared to everyone else.

If you think Turkey is joining the EU, particularly with recent political developments then fine. That's belief.

Trade deals are protectionist. Absolutely. Agriculture and industry and services.

We certainly will get cheaper goods if we drop all of our tariffs. We'll also see all of our industries vanish.

Just for the record, agriculture is a strategic industry. As a country we need to know how to produce food. That's why we protect it. Are we comfortable decimating the rural economy?

That said, food costs are a smaller proportion of income than its ever been. We import lots of food from Africa and South America.

We sold our fishing licenses to other EU countries for profit. That's why they are in our waters. No conspiracy.

80% of our economy is services. Common regulatory structures are what allow cross-border functioning. Tariffs for agricultural and manufactured good really are easy compared to this.

We do not have trade deals with the US and China because they involve actual negotiations between states of equivalent scale. In fact, EU citizens via the Parliament buried TTIP despite what the Commission may have wanted...

What negotiation actually happens in an asymmetric discussion?

Switzerland has a trade agreement with China. Essentially China can export any manufactured goods (subject to meeting standards, EU ones ironically) whilst Switzerland exports luxury goods because that's all that China wants from them. Finance, chemicals and pharmaceuticals, the biggest Swiss industries, are specifically excluded.

Of course accusations of racism are lazy, but will immigration from other parts of the world prove to be any more acceptable than from the EU? Will we be more comfortable with the indentured labour in the Middle East?

It's happening though and the hard leavers don't seem to mind if the country remains permanently split over this because no compromise is possible. That makes any negotiation with anyone interesting.

Shame.

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By *laclkguyMan over a year ago

Pontefract

It really is not the only pertinent question. You believe that staying was the better option. Do you think that was the perfect scenario?

Since you are saying that we will be so much worse off, please use valid comparisons.

That sort of thing. As opposed to staying in a system that does not suit us.

Actually, relative to you asking me how to unite the country if we'd remained then it is very much more pertinent.

If you have no answer or do not think it's worth worrying about then just say so.

No, it was not perfect. I don't believe that anyone has ever said that it was so I don't really understand why you'd ask again and again.

Valid comparison of what with what?

So you are saying definitely "better" trade? You're also saying that our "unrestricted" trade will definitely be better than what we have now?

Are there any consequences from no longer having any influence in one of the world's three largest economic blocks?

If you believe that the only measure of an investment is an immediate, direct financial benefit and that there are no other measures of value then fine.

Will we be able to replicate the continental scale of science, medical, pharmaceutical and technology investment in the UK to which we currently benefit from?

Is there a possibility that we'll be worse off out of the EU?

I shall try to answer:

The EEC was formed as a trading block which in itself was a perfect ideal for the time.

after half a century it has evolved into a superstate with its own unelected leaders.

The trade block also inhibits cheaper food stuff from non eu countries to enter this country due to high taxes to help protect EU suppliers.

The future of britain is outside the EU.

As for immigration it annoys me when I hear all this twaddle abour brexiteers being racists.

On a personal note I wish we were not leaving but we are and its about time we started looking at the positives of the situation.

Lets not forget we have not left yet. There is still time for us to change our minds and for the EU to start listening to its members. Otherwise other countries will take the same route.

My opinion only.

I mostly agree

but the vote was mainly about race

you are right that we'll have to wait and see what the deal will be

my guess is that we'll end up with almost the same deal as we have now, in or outside the EU

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By *oo hotCouple over a year ago

North West

I mostly agree

but the vote was mainly about race

you are right that we'll have to wait and see what the deal will be

my guess is that we'll end up with almost the same deal as we have now, in or outside the EU

Careful what you say on here making accusations about the referendum being about race. The full on, closet and recreational racists who voted for Brexit are now stating that they voted purely on economic and legal issues (yet cant give any reasons why we we will be better off being a champion of free trade whilst isolating ourselves from the largest free market economy that lives just next door).

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By *ercuryMan over a year ago

Grantham

I mostly agree

but the vote was mainly about race

you are right that we'll have to wait and see what the deal will be

my guess is that we'll end up with almost the same deal as we have now, in or outside the EU

May I show that response to the Polish man that I directly employ?

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By *oo hotCouple over a year ago

North West

I mostly agree

but the vote was mainly about race

you are right that we'll have to wait and see what the deal will be

my guess is that we'll end up with almost the same deal as we have now, in or outside the EU

May I show that response to the Polish man that I directly employ? "

Do whatever you want, if you can identify as one of those groups - wear the cap

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By *LCC OP Couple over a year ago

Cambridge

I mostly agree

but the vote was mainly about race

you are right that we'll have to wait and see what the deal will be

my guess is that we'll end up with almost the same deal as we have now, in or outside the EU

May I show that response to the Polish man that I directly employ? "

And you can tell him that the government wants to keep his name on a register, and wants to charge you £1,000 for hiring him over a British worker.

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By *ercuryMan over a year ago

Grantham

I mostly agree

but the vote was mainly about race

you are right that we'll have to wait and see what the deal will be

my guess is that we'll end up with almost the same deal as we have now, in or outside the EU

May I show that response to the Polish man that I directly employ?

And you can tell him that the government wants to keep his name on a register, and wants to charge you £1,000 for hiring him over a British worker.

Then that will be £1000 well spent.

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By *LCC OP Couple over a year ago

Cambridge

I mostly agree

but the vote was mainly about race

you are right that we'll have to wait and see what the deal will be

my guess is that we'll end up with almost the same deal as we have now, in or outside the EU

May I show that response to the Polish man that I directly employ?

And you can tell him that the government wants to keep his name on a register, and wants to charge you £1,000 for hiring him over a British worker.

Then that will be £1000 well spent."

If he is worth £1,000 more than a British worker, I'm sure he will be thrilled to know that that £1,000 wont be going into his pocket for his hard work, but will instead be paid to the government. I bet that will make him feel all warm and fluffy inside.

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By *ercuryMan over a year ago

Grantham

I mostly agree

but the vote was mainly about race

you are right that we'll have to wait and see what the deal will be

my guess is that we'll end up with almost the same deal as we have now, in or outside the EU

May I show that response to the Polish man that I directly employ?

And you can tell him that the government wants to keep his name on a register, and wants to charge you £1,000 for hiring him over a British worker.

Then that will be £1000 well spent.

I don't speak for him. His opinions are his, and his alone. He is happy to be here with his family, happy to be working and contributing and i'm happy to have him do work for me.

Like him, I see the benefits of migration. Migration is good, the level of migration is not good.

But then if certain remainers want to play the race card, then I would suggest that that says more about them than me

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By *LCC OP Couple over a year ago

Cambridge

I mostly agree

but the vote was mainly about race

you are right that we'll have to wait and see what the deal will be

my guess is that we'll end up with almost the same deal as we have now, in or outside the EU

May I show that response to the Polish man that I directly employ?

And you can tell him that the government wants to keep his name on a register, and wants to charge you £1,000 for hiring him over a British worker.

Then that will be £1000 well spent.

I don't speak for him. His opinions are his, and his alone. He is happy to be here with his family, happy to be working and contributing and i'm happy to have him do work for me.

Like him, I see the benefits of migration. Migration is good, the level of migration is not good.

But then if certain remainers want to play the race card, then I would suggest that that says more about them than me

Are you saying that pointing out government plans is racist?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Sadly people ONLY choose the facts that suits there side of the argument for leaving the EU, it will have certain benefits but will also have losses to this country but all people want to do is bury there head in the sand to the facts that do not support there view.

Like you said we will lose trade agreements already in place but yes new ones can be signed up with countries outside the EU just don't mention that ANY trade agreement takes years to negotiate be it with a EU country or non EU country.

Lot's of people want to 'cherry pick' what this country get's from Brexit but the simple fact if we were still part of the EU and another country was leaving and wanting to 'cherry pick' what they wanted we would be saying no chance.

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By *immyXXMan over a year ago

Pontypridd

.how do you Think that conversation is gona go?

poor example, gym is a one way service

try harder I could use many examples in any business or political partnership both parties are there because of mutual gain

Do YOU; honestly, truthfully think that "we" the UK are going to be the only country to leave the EU ???

Truthful answer now"

I see that you have all choose not ignore this point!!!!!!!!

We are the first to leave but let's face facts we will probably not the only ones that will leave, Germany, France, Italy, just for starters are not stupid enough to think that there is not very strong possibility of them leaving in the near future,,, and I'm sure that will be a big part of any plans the ok has when negotiations take place,

I think the bravery of brexit by the uk is the start of something, not the end as many (those that have) think,

Politics has changed dramatically in the last year, THE MAJORITY understand this, and the sooner everyone else wakes up and stops going on about their 48% rubbish argument the better

There is no action reply or time machine, nick clegg is not going to change anyone's mind, and the world will continue,, slightly different but possibly better?? X

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By *ercuryMan over a year ago

Grantham

I mostly agree

but the vote was mainly about race

you are right that we'll have to wait and see what the deal will be

my guess is that we'll end up with almost the same deal as we have now, in or outside the EU

May I show that response to the Polish man that I directly employ?

And you can tell him that the government wants to keep his name on a register, and wants to charge you £1,000 for hiring him over a British worker.

Then that will be £1000 well spent.

I don't speak for him. His opinions are his, and his alone. He is happy to be here with his family, happy to be working and contributing and i'm happy to have him do work for me.

Like him, I see the benefits of migration. Migration is good, the level of migration is not good.

But then if certain remainers want to play the race card, then I would suggest that that says more about them than me

Are you saying that pointing out government plans is racist?

I was responding to the post that the vote was about race.

I respect all opinions that are put. As I've said before, the reasons that people voted out (or remain for the matter), are varied and equally valid. Reasons in Boston are going to be different to those in Bracknell to those in Barmouth. People who use generalisations that the vote was "about race", either don't understand or don't wish to understand.

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By *LCC OP Couple over a year ago

Cambridge

I mostly agree

but the vote was mainly about race

you are right that we'll have to wait and see what the deal will be

my guess is that we'll end up with almost the same deal as we have now, in or outside the EU

May I show that response to the Polish man that I directly employ?

And you can tell him that the government wants to keep his name on a register, and wants to charge you £1,000 for hiring him over a British worker.

Then that will be £1000 well spent.

I don't speak for him. His opinions are his, and his alone. He is happy to be here with his family, happy to be working and contributing and i'm happy to have him do work for me.

Like him, I see the benefits of migration. Migration is good, the level of migration is not good.

But then if certain remainers want to play the race card, then I would suggest that that says more about them than me

Are you saying that pointing out government plans is racist?

I was responding to the post that the vote was about race.

I think it would be naive to think that racism didn't play a part in the minds of some voters.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I mostly agree

but the vote was mainly about race

you are right that we'll have to wait and see what the deal will be

my guess is that we'll end up with almost the same deal as we have now, in or outside the EU

May I show that response to the Polish man that I directly employ?

And you can tell him that the government wants to keep his name on a register, and wants to charge you £1,000 for hiring him over a British worker.

Then that will be £1000 well spent.

I don't speak for him. His opinions are his, and his alone. He is happy to be here with his family, happy to be working and contributing and i'm happy to have him do work for me.

Like him, I see the benefits of migration. Migration is good, the level of migration is not good.

But then if certain remainers want to play the race card, then I would suggest that that says more about them than me

Are you saying that pointing out government plans is racist?

I was responding to the post that the vote was about race.

I think it would be naive to think that racism didn't play a part in the minds of some voters."

so what? They can be racist if they want to be can't they? Or would you have them gassed?

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By *oo hotCouple over a year ago

North West

"............

I think the bravery of brexit by the uk is the start of something, not the end as many (those that have) think,

Politics has changed dramatically in the last year, THE MAJORITY understand this, and the sooner everyone else wakes up and stops going on about their 48% rubbish argument the better

There is no action reply or time machine, nick clegg is not going to change anyone's mind, and the world will continue,, slightly different but possibly better?? X"

Which "facts" (your word) should we face to illustrate your point that other European countries will follow the UK out of the EU?

I suggest your facts are more represented by your thoughts that being British makes you big and much cleverer than the other Europeans but like in history - as Britain leads the way, so others shall follow.

Let me remind you that the UK joind the EEC as the sick man of Europe. Post war Britain was in a terminal decline and the world had no place or time for an ex colonial country who had more history than future. Membership of the EU transformed the UK into what it is today as we vote to go back to where we were before we joined the EEC.

Mrs May, for all her Brexit speeches is living in a parallel world and she is leading the Brexit fanatics up an ever narrowing alleyway. The future is global co-operation and not isolation. There is no logic whatsoever in aiming to be a world champion of free trade by removing yourself from the largest free trade area in the world which is right on our doorstep.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"............

I think the bravery of brexit by the uk is the start of something, not the end as many (those that have) think,

Politics has changed dramatically in the last year, THE MAJORITY understand this, and the sooner everyone else wakes up and stops going on about their 48% rubbish argument the better

There is no action reply or time machine, nick clegg is not going to change anyone's mind, and the world will continue,, slightly different but possibly better?? X

Which "facts" (your word) should we face to illustrate your point that other European countries will follow the UK out of the EU?

this 'sick man of Europe' is a load of crap, we were the 5th biggest economy in the world before we joined the common market, the problem was with the unions and they were sorted under Thatcher because the people were sick of them, nothing to do with the 'EU'

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ercuryMan over a year ago

Grantham

I mostly agree

but the vote was mainly about race

you are right that we'll have to wait and see what the deal will be

my guess is that we'll end up with almost the same deal as we have now, in or outside the EU

May I show that response to the Polish man that I directly employ?

And you can tell him that the government wants to keep his name on a register, and wants to charge you £1,000 for hiring him over a British worker.

Then that will be £1000 well spent.

I don't speak for him. His opinions are his, and his alone. He is happy to be here with his family, happy to be working and contributing and i'm happy to have him do work for me.

Like him, I see the benefits of migration. Migration is good, the level of migration is not good.

But then if certain remainers want to play the race card, then I would suggest that that says more about them than me

Are you saying that pointing out government plans is racist?

I was responding to the post that the vote was about race.

I think it would be naive to think that racism didn't play a part in the minds of some voters."

I totally agree. Some of the dubious rubbish spouted by all sides was both disgusting and harmful to all parties.

Would be interesting to hear people's views on how and why they voted, but I fear another shit-storm!

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"............

I think the bravery of brexit by the uk is the start of something, not the end as many (those that have) think,

Politics has changed dramatically in the last year, THE MAJORITY understand this, and the sooner everyone else wakes up and stops going on about their 48% rubbish argument the better

There is no action reply or time machine, nick clegg is not going to change anyone's mind, and the world will continue,, slightly different but possibly better?? X

Which "facts" (your word) should we face to illustrate your point that other European countries will follow the UK out of the EU?

Myself and family were discussing this - many of them voted leave out of either a desire for change in how UK politics is done, or confidently because they viewed the EU as currently failing europe and unreformable - on the whole they actually liked the idea of europe acting as a trade and political block.

Anyway, we were discussing it, and most of them feel as though there is not enough thought being put into this.

If you look, most countries who are not in a trade block and really do THRIVE - not just prosper but actually thrive, have a niche market, or a resource they can monopolise on.

South Korea, Taiwan and Japan do computer components, biotech, regulated banking, and software design. Norway has oil and a small population to distribute wealth between. Singapore is like the london of SEA but it works as once again, they have a small population to distribute wealth between.

Nations like Australia, America and Canada are so large with so many resources that that could, if need be, get away with not trading - not that they'd want to.

So, what will Britains niche be? Because we have a small landmass, big population, great wealth inequality, very few high value natural resources which we can capitalise on.

Most of the people who voted leave in old industrial estates and towns I know did so because they wanted manufacturing back - and many of them said, if it's not feasible to bring those jobs back, give us something else to capitalise on. Currently, Mrs May seems to just want to lower tax to keep London attractive.

That will not rejuvenate the country. S what do we do?