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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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What is your view of it? Is it good or bad? We had a good discussion of it in my other thread about it, sweden is the only country that have feminism in the coalision government. |
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in that ideal world there will be no need for a movement that exists to have a level playing field where we are treated equally regardless of the nature of our gender..
equal pay act/equality act..?
oh yes we've had it for nigh on 37 years but there are still issues.. |
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By *ty31Man
over a year ago
NW London |
A good thing in the same way that the civil rights movement is/was. It's given women rights which they were previously denied and created opportunities which weren't available before.
It's about equality between the genders, not man bashing or superiority.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
It's about equality between the genders, not man bashing or superiority.
"
It has become the latter though.
All these proud misandrists knocking around
#drinkmaletears or something to that effect? |
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"
It's about equality between the genders, not man bashing or superiority.
It has become the latter though.
All these proud misandrists knocking around
#drinkmaletears or something to that effect? "
The 'drink male tears' things is a actually intended as parody, because feminists are always accused of hating men.
I don't think it's particularly funny or helpful, but it's not some serious feminist movement either. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The first two feminist movements - the suffragettes and the equality movements of the 1960s-1980's were vital to an equal society and we should still remember and learn about them.
Currently, the third feminist movement seems to be broken into two sections sadly.
On the one hand, you have groups of people trying to ensure that in this country and other developed nations, that equality acts in regards to wages and rights are upheld and enforced, whilst trying to direct feminism into wider society. For example, helping young women from working class backgrounds know, that if they choose so, they can go off and do a career in science, or politics, or set up their own business ect. Which should be done, part of the reason why men still earn more than women overall is because more women chose low pay, low skill jobs compared to men - if that's their choice fair enough, but if they were not encouraged to better themselves from a young age then we should work to stop that from repeating itself.
However, there is an ugly side to feminism which seems to have emerged recently which is centred around men hating, or blaming everything on men, or men in power.
Luckily, this is currently not much of an issue, most of the attention is focused away from this and on equality. Unless you read the traditionalist crap that the internet can spout from time to time. |
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By *ty31Man
over a year ago
NW London |
"
It's about equality between the genders, not man bashing or superiority.
It has become the latter though.
"
It hasn't. Feminism is an umbrella term which covers a wide range of types including militant feminists, black feminism, socialist feminists etc.... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
It's about equality between the genders, not man bashing or superiority.
It has become the latter though.
It hasn't. Feminism is an umbrella term which covers a wide range of types including militant feminists, black feminism, socialist feminists etc...."
For some reason though, in America and pro-conservative media outlets, they focus on the 'militant feminism', by which I mean the type most frequent for going on 'blame men rants.
I presume it's because they want some to undermine the movement to try and get back to the 'family values' narrative? |
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By *ty31Man
over a year ago
NW London |
"
It's about equality between the genders, not man bashing or superiority.
It has become the latter though.
It hasn't. Feminism is an umbrella term which covers a wide range of types including militant feminists, black feminism, socialist feminists etc....
For some reason though, in America and pro-conservative media outlets, they focus on the 'militant feminism', by which I mean the type most frequent for going on 'blame men rants.
I presume it's because they want some to undermine the movement to try and get back to the 'family values' narrative?"
Or maybe shock, horror, moral outrage and bad news creates villains and sells newspapers and media content? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The mitilitant stuff isn't really in the main stream, more so on Twitter and specialist websites... But it gets diluted down as it filters through the more PC channels to the point that (some) girls are growing up fearful of rapers on every corner. We live in rape culture after all (supposedly)
My question is why not rebrand to equalism or something like that? And why favour inequality in one group over the many other forms of inequality?  |
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" And why favour inequality in one group over the many other forms of inequality? "
Why do some people and organisations focus on gay rights? Or fighting racism? There are different movements and groups for all kinds of causes. Not sure why you think this is a problem for feminism. |
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"The blatant absurdity in this thread is that it is dominated by males.  "
Haha, true. This does tend to happen with a lot of the debate on the subject. Not that feminism isn't something men can contribute to, but often it gets stuck at this 'is it a good thing' level, which is fairly pointless and I'm stopping now  |
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By *yrdwomanWoman
over a year ago
Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum |
"The blatant absurdity in this thread is that it is dominated by males.
Haha, true. This does tend to happen with a lot of the debate on the subject. Not that feminism isn't something men can contribute to, but often it gets stuck at this 'is it a good thing' level, which is fairly pointless and I'm stopping now "
No, its because the moment a woman contributes she is accused of being shrill. We've learned our lesson boys, we just stay very quiet about it.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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" And why favour inequality in one group over the many other forms of inequality?
Why do some people and organisations focus on gay rights? Or fighting racism? There are different movements and groups for all kinds of causes. Not sure why you think this is a problem for feminism. "
Because Feminism claims to be for everyone. |
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"Why Don't the Feminist Movement ever speak out against Islam ?"
A simple bit of research would show they do: Southall Black Sisters is an organisation supporting women in ethnic groups that have misogynistic attitudes. They are a brilliant organisation that campaigns against forced marriages, FGM, burkas etc. Many are feminist and muslim but they appreciate and love the freedom Western secular society offers.
Sadly a some people on the Left, (the types that excuse such backward attitudes as "cultural") seem to view them as a bit of an embarrassment. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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" And why favour inequality in one group over the many other forms of inequality?
Why do some people and organisations focus on gay rights? Or fighting racism? There are different movements and groups for all kinds of causes. Not sure why you think this is a problem for feminism.
Because Feminism claims to be for everyone. "
Have you got the hump? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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" And why favour inequality in one group over the many other forms of inequality?
Why do some people and organisations focus on gay rights? Or fighting racism? There are different movements and groups for all kinds of causes. Not sure why you think this is a problem for feminism.
Because Feminism claims to be for everyone.
Have you got the hump?"
To a small extent yes as in it's current (average, as I perceived it, as its so amorphous and inconsistent about what it even is) format I see it as a source of great silliness, distraction and some disharmony in the world relative to what are diminishing returns in real equality.
In principle I'm libertarian and if it was packaged differently and was effective in tackling real inequality I would be in favour of it. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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" And why favour inequality in one group over the many other forms of inequality?
Why do some people and organisations focus on gay rights? Or fighting racism? There are different movements and groups for all kinds of causes. Not sure why you think this is a problem for feminism.
Because Feminism claims to be for everyone.
Have you got the hump?
To a small extent yes as in it's current (average, as I perceived it, as its so amorphous and inconsistent about what it even is) format I see it as a source of great silliness, distraction and some disharmony in the world relative to what are diminishing returns in real equality.
In principle I'm libertarian and if it was packaged differently and was effective in tackling real inequality I would be in favour of it. "
It amuses me that some men see it like that |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Why Don't the Feminist Movement ever speak out against Islam ?
A simple bit of research would show they do: Southall Black Sisters is an organisation supporting women in ethnic groups that have misogynistic attitudes. They are a brilliant organisation that campaigns against forced marriages, FGM, burkas etc. Many are feminist and muslim but they appreciate and love the freedom Western secular society offers.
Sadly a some people on the Left, (the types that excuse such backward attitudes as "cultural") seem to view them as a bit of an embarrassment. "
Good on them !
But your last sentence is what I'm getting at !
I just don't get it !
That's why tho I'm on the Right , I have a lot of Respect for Peter Tatchell !
He doesn't seem to mind who he stands up to !
Wrong is Wrong ! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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That's a bit lazy, if I am so mistaken show me the light?
Or am I simply relegated to the "lost boy/he's just not getting with the program(ming)/bad man" not worth engaging with classification?  |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Why Don't the Feminist Movement ever speak out against Islam ?In sweden they welcome it and it have gone all wrong there."
I also want to add another reason and that is, because there is no room for power and political agendas in islam for western feminists.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"That's a bit lazy, if I am so mistaken show me the light?
Or am I simply relegated to the "lost boy/he's just not getting with the program(ming)/bad man" not worth engaging with classification? "
The minute you mentioned 'real' inequality my eyes did this  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Why Don't the Feminist Movement ever speak out against Islam ?In sweden they welcome it and it have gone all wrong there."
Does Sweden still have the second highest number of rapes in the world, after South Africa? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Why Don't the Feminist Movement ever speak out against Islam ?In sweden they welcome it and it have gone all wrong there.
Does Sweden still have the second highest number of rapes in the world, after South Africa? "
Yes they have and they are are even above south afrika, they are worlds nr1 country, women are afraid to walk out on their own. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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In Islamic countries men tell women to wear the hijab or burkha in western countries men tell these women to take off the burkha or hijab.The problem isnt women its men. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"That's a bit lazy, if I am so mistaken show me the light?
Or am I simply relegated to the "lost boy/he's just not getting with the program(ming)/bad man" not worth engaging with classification?
The minute you mentioned 'real' inequality my eyes did this "
There is a degree of perception with everything. But things can also be measured objectively and there are greater and less forms of inequality based on scale and severity |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Why Don't the Feminist Movement ever speak out against Islam ?In sweden they welcome it and it have gone all wrong there.
Does Sweden still have the second highest number of rapes in the world, after South Africa? Yes they have and they are are even above south afrika, they are worlds nr1 country, women are afraid to walk out on their own."
Tragic. Who would have thought it. Sweden turned into a cesspit by its leaders and their continuing open door, mass immigration policy. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"That's a bit lazy, if I am so mistaken show me the light?
Or am I simply relegated to the "lost boy/he's just not getting with the program(ming)/bad man" not worth engaging with classification?
The minute you mentioned 'real' inequality my eyes did this
There is a degree of perception with everything. But things can also be measured objectively and there are greater and less forms of inequality based on scale and severity "
Like i said...i'm just gonna leave you with your opinion |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Why Don't the Feminist Movement ever speak out against Islam ?In sweden they welcome it and it have gone all wrong there.
Does Sweden still have the second highest number of rapes in the world, after South Africa? Yes they have and they are are even above south afrika, they are worlds nr1 country, women are afraid to walk out on their own.
Tragic. Who would have thought it. Sweden turned into a cesspit by its leaders and their continuing open door, mass immigration policy."
That is right, that is why I dont visit sweden as I want to have the good memories when it was eden, maybe the situation will be better one day, there is a good saying, history will judge them hard, that is why other countries have to see how bad mass immigration can be for a country and learn from history. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"... that is why I dont visit sweden as I want to have the good memories when it was eden, maybe the situation will be better one day, there is a good saying, history will judge them hard, that is why other countries have to see how bad mass immigration can be for a country and learn from history."
You're right to a point and it's why Eastern European countries like Poland don't let them in. The current German Fuhrer however knows best and is training both police and the media in how NOT to confront, arrest and report on the sex crimes of her guests. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Why Don't the Feminist Movement ever speak out against Islam ?In sweden they welcome it and it have gone all wrong there."
There should be a distinction made between 'feminism' as a political and social ideology and 'feminism' as being adopted as policy in Sweden. Which I pointed out in your last thread.
The current coalition government in Sweden have enshrined feminist and general egalitarian ideals in their policies, which informs their decision making. The government is NOT a feminist government.
I would really have hoped that you would have clarified this point to be honest. As I pointed out then, the Feminist Initiative have no seats in the Riksdag and are not part of the coalition government. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Why Don't the Feminist Movement ever speak out against Islam ?In sweden they welcome it and it have gone all wrong there.
There should be a distinction made between 'feminism' as a political and social ideology and 'feminism' as being adopted as policy in Sweden. Which I pointed out in your last thread.
The current coalition government in Sweden have enshrined feminist and general egalitarian ideals in their policies, which informs their decision making. The government is NOT a feminist government.
I would really have hoped that you would have clarified this point to be honest. As I pointed out then, the Feminist Initiative have no seats in the Riksdag and are not part of the coalition government. "
I know, but you have to live in sweden to know the situation better of how the government work, you just know it by paper, these are fundamentalists and have a big say in what is happening and decision making. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Why Don't the Feminist Movement ever speak out against Islam ?In sweden they welcome it and it have gone all wrong there.
There should be a distinction made between 'feminism' as a political and social ideology and 'feminism' as being adopted as policy in Sweden. Which I pointed out in your last thread.
The current coalition government in Sweden have enshrined feminist and general egalitarian ideals in their policies, which informs their decision making. The government is NOT a feminist government.
I would really have hoped that you would have clarified this point to be honest. As I pointed out then, the Feminist Initiative have no seats in the Riksdag and are not part of the coalition government. I know, but you have to live in sweden to know the situation better of how the government work, you just know it by paper, these are fundamentalists and have a big say in what is happening and decision making."
As I said in the last thread, you don't live there now. Haven't for 10 years and don't intend to return? I feel you are being disingenuous to be honest. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Why Don't the Feminist Movement ever speak out against Islam ?In sweden they welcome it and it have gone all wrong there.
There should be a distinction made between 'feminism' as a political and social ideology and 'feminism' as being adopted as policy in Sweden. Which I pointed out in your last thread.
The current coalition government in Sweden have enshrined feminist and general egalitarian ideals in their policies, which informs their decision making. The government is NOT a feminist government.
I would really have hoped that you would have clarified this point to be honest. As I pointed out then, the Feminist Initiative have no seats in the Riksdag and are not part of the coalition government. I know, but you have to live in sweden to know the situation better of how the government work, you just know it by paper, these are fundamentalists and have a big say in what is happening and decision making.
As I said in the last thread, you don't live there now. Haven't for 10 years and don't intend to return? I feel you are being disingenuous to be honest. "
I know, but I still follow the news on what is happening there, we just have to disagree to agree. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Why Don't the Feminist Movement ever speak out against Islam ?In sweden they welcome it and it have gone all wrong there.
There should be a distinction made between 'feminism' as a political and social ideology and 'feminism' as being adopted as policy in Sweden. Which I pointed out in your last thread.
The current coalition government in Sweden have enshrined feminist and general egalitarian ideals in their policies, which informs their decision making. The government is NOT a feminist government.
I would really have hoped that you would have clarified this point to be honest. As I pointed out then, the Feminist Initiative have no seats in the Riksdag and are not part of the coalition government. I know, but you have to live in sweden to know the situation better of how the government work, you just know it by paper, these are fundamentalists and have a big say in what is happening and decision making.
As I said in the last thread, you don't live there now. Haven't for 10 years and don't intend to return? I feel you are being disingenuous to be honest. I know, but I still follow the news on what is happening there, we just have to disagree to agree."
That sounds like a cop out, but I don't have the head for an argument. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Why Don't the Feminist Movement ever speak out against Islam ?In sweden they welcome it and it have gone all wrong there.
There should be a distinction made between 'feminism' as a political and social ideology and 'feminism' as being adopted as policy in Sweden. Which I pointed out in your last thread.
The current coalition government in Sweden have enshrined feminist and general egalitarian ideals in their policies, which informs their decision making. The government is NOT a feminist government.
I would really have hoped that you would have clarified this point to be honest. As I pointed out then, the Feminist Initiative have no seats in the Riksdag and are not part of the coalition government. I know, but you have to live in sweden to know the situation better of how the government work, you just know it by paper, these are fundamentalists and have a big say in what is happening and decision making.
As I said in the last thread, you don't live there now. Haven't for 10 years and don't intend to return? I feel you are being disingenuous to be honest. I know, but I still follow the news on what is happening there, we just have to disagree to agree.
That sounds like a cop out, but I don't have the head for an argument. "
No it dont, as it would go on forever. |
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To echo an earlier post, I also think it's strange that there are hardly any women in this thread to give us a real informed view on this subject. The thing is until you are a woman who has experienced gender disadvantage, it is very hard to really see it from the inside out.
Feminism wouldn't be needed if every man treated women like they could be a sister, mother, aunt, grandmother etc. The bitter truth is we don't and that's why feminism is needed to remind us that we are all equal. Personally for me, I cringe when I come across men with very Neanderthal attitudes towards women. I know some in my own family and it still makes me cringe, |
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