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Self Sufficient ?

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

With all the doom and gloom about trade from the Be Moaners

Why not look at been as self sufficient as possible ?

I've already dealt with defence on another thread .

Surely we can feed ourselves

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By *LCCCouple over a year ago

Cambridge

Have you had any tea or coffee this morning?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Surely we can feed ourselves

Maybe if we cull half the population and those that are left get used to not eating very much.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Surely we can feed ourselves

Maybe if we cull half the population and those that are left get used to not eating very much."
.

You've got my vote

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

If we had to we could yes

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By *LCCCouple over a year ago

Cambridge

"If we had to we could yes"

I challenge you to try it for a week!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"If we had to we could yes

I challenge you to try it for a week! "

Easy.

I challenge you to stop talking out of your arse for a week!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"If we had to we could yes

I challenge you to try it for a week!

Easy.

I challenge you to stop talking out of your arse for a week!"
..

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

If you stop eating all of the fancy stuff and stick to basic food less meat more veg might be a boring diet mind as we have become too used to the finer things in life.

But we have too many people in the uk for our land to feed on the scale that people are eating.

Mind you it might not be such a bad thing health wise

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By *LCCCouple over a year ago

Cambridge

"If we had to we could yes

I challenge you to try it for a week!

Easy.

I challenge you to stop talking out of your arse for a week!"

Right, so no tea or coffee, no pepper, no wine, no olive oil, no chocolate, virtually no fruit, probably no tomatoes or tomato based products. That's just for starters.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 29/12/16 12:16:42]

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Turnips and potatoes for everyone.Youll have pick them yourselves once we pull up the draw bridge.

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By *LCCCouple over a year ago

Cambridge

And of course I challenge the OP to try too!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

We actually grow fruit all year round here in the UK....I know crazy hey

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Who needs a banana if you have a good pair of plums?

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By *otlovefun42Couple over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

"If we had to we could yes

I challenge you to try it for a week!

Easy.

I challenge you to stop talking out of your arse for a week!

Right, so no tea or coffee, no pepper, no wine, no olive oil, no chocolate, virtually no fruit, probably no tomatoes or tomato based products. That's just for starters."

Tea and coffee? No problem, drink beer.

Pepper? Wouldn't miss it much.

Wine? What about the wonderful English wines?

Fruit? Lots of it grown in the UK.

Tomatoes? That is the easiest one of the lot. Anyone remember Guernsey or Blackpool tomatoes?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"We actually grow fruit all year round here in the UK....I know crazy hey

We also make prize winning wines. Export shit loads of rape seed oil (better than olive oil). We have some of the largest salt deposits in Europe (towns ending in wich are a big clue)....

But it's not about being self sufficient in everything...it's about being efficient....and trading.

Since we joined the common market...which morphed into the EU.....our trade with Europe has fallen from 56% of total down to 41%......

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By *enard ArgenteMan over a year ago

London and France

Soylent Green......

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

And there are machines that can do the picking now

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

They grow tea in Devon!.

Not much I'll admit but you'd be surprised what can be grown here, figs apricots nectarines olives kiwis.

The question is a bit misleading, we could just about grow enough calories to feed everybody here, it's really a question of options for choice.

Commercially grown fruit is not a patch on home grown freshly picked, you just can't store the taste

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By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

Surely we can feed ourselves

Maybe if we cull half the population and those that are left get used to not eating very much."

The celebrities on 'I'm a celebrity get me out of here' get used to eating Rice and beans pretty quick. Some of them come out of the show looking more healthy for it too.

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By *LCCCouple over a year ago

Cambridge

Surely we can feed ourselves

Maybe if we cull half the population and those that are left get used to not eating very much.

The celebrities on 'I'm a celebrity get me out of here' get used to eating Rice and beans pretty quick. Some of them come out of the show looking more healthy for it too.

Got many rice paddies in Cannock?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The "Good life" of raising pigs and ploughing your lawn to plant spuds is a dystopian nightmare.How exactly does this work in a block flats in Birmingham or london.

We would be one step from hunter gatherers.

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By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

"If we had to we could yes

I challenge you to try it for a week!

Easy.

I challenge you to stop talking out of your arse for a week!

Right, so no tea or coffee, no pepper, no wine, no olive oil, no chocolate, virtually no fruit, probably no tomatoes or tomato based products. That's just for starters."

Which UK do you live in? Doesn't seem to be the same one as me. I don't drink tea or coffee, mainly I drink just plain old water, either out the tap or bottled and the UK produces many varieties of bottled water. I never use pepper on my food either.

Wine is produced here in the UK.

I don't eat much chocolate.

Lots of fruit is grown here in the UK, we grow tonnes of Pears and apples, where do you think UK cider comes from? You can grow tomatoes here in the UK, someone already mentioned a couple of commercial varieties of UK tomatoes and thousands, (probably millions) of tomatoes are grown on private UK allotments all over the UK each year. Just have a look on your average local allotment, it's amazing what ordinary folk grow in the UK these days. I live near cannock chase forest, go for a walk over there and you'll see tonnes of rasberries and blackberries growing wild there. We also produce tonnes of strawberries each year, all of the strawberries supplied to Wimbledon tennis tournament are UK strawberries.

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By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

Surely we can feed ourselves

Maybe if we cull half the population and those that are left get used to not eating very much.

The celebrities on 'I'm a celebrity get me out of here' get used to eating Rice and beans pretty quick. Some of them come out of the show looking more healthy for it too.

Got many rice paddies in Cannock? "

Knew you would say that. Of course we don't grow rice in the UK, but the idea of I'm a celebrity get me out of here shows how cutting out a lot of crap from your diet and being able to manage on a more basic diet would actually make a lot of folk more healthy. The obesity problems in this country wouldn't be half as bad.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Surely we can feed ourselves

Maybe if we cull half the population and those that are left get used to not eating very much.

The celebrities on 'I'm a celebrity get me out of here' get used to eating Rice and beans pretty quick. Some of them come out of the show looking more healthy for it too.

Got many rice paddies in Cannock?

If I wanted to have no choice over the food I eat and subsist on rice, I'd move to a developing-world country. But blame it all on obese people if you like, I'll crack on here with my chosen foods, thanks.

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By *LCCCouple over a year ago

Cambridge

"If we had to we could yes

I challenge you to try it for a week!

Easy.

I challenge you to stop talking out of your arse for a week!

Right, so no tea or coffee, no pepper, no wine, no olive oil, no chocolate, virtually no fruit, probably no tomatoes or tomato based products. That's just for starters.

Wine is produced here in the UK.

I don't eat much chocolate.

It's December

You are going to struggle to find that stuff, grown in the UK, in the middle of winter.

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By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

"The "Good life" of raising pigs and ploughing your lawn to plant spuds is a dystopian nightmare.How exactly does this work in a block flats in Birmingham or london.

We would be one step from hunter gatherers."

Plenty of people in London (and Birmingham) own allotments, have you never watched Eastenders or Only fools and horses?

Half of the UK is covered with farmers fields. I think the OP was suggesting we buy UK produced goods from the supermarket.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"If we had to we could yes

I challenge you to try it for a week!

Easy.

I challenge you to stop talking out of your arse for a week!

Right, so no tea or coffee, no pepper, no wine, no olive oil, no chocolate, virtually no fruit, probably no tomatoes or tomato based products. That's just for starters.

Wine is produced here in the UK.

I don't eat much chocolate.

It's December

You are going to struggle to find that stuff, grown in the UK, in the middle of winter. "

we tin it

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By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

Surely we can feed ourselves

Maybe if we cull half the population and those that are left get used to not eating very much.

The celebrities on 'I'm a celebrity get me out of here' get used to eating Rice and beans pretty quick. Some of them come out of the show looking more healthy for it too.

Got many rice paddies in Cannock?

You can still stuff your face with crisps from the Walkers factory from UK grown potatoes if you like and you can still get your fish and chips from the local chippy with fish caught in UK waters and chips made from UK potatoes.

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By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

"If we had to we could yes

I challenge you to try it for a week!

Easy.

I challenge you to stop talking out of your arse for a week!

Right, so no tea or coffee, no pepper, no wine, no olive oil, no chocolate, virtually no fruit, probably no tomatoes or tomato based products. That's just for starters.

Wine is produced here in the UK.

I don't eat much chocolate.

It's December

You are going to struggle to find that stuff, grown in the UK, in the middle of winter.

we tin it

I don't think CLCC understands the concept of the harvest, where you grow enough through spring, summer and autumn to see you through the winter time.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It's December

You are going to struggle to find that stuff, grown in the UK, in the middle of winter. "
.

Well you won't find strawberries growing in Spain naturally this time of year.... It's north Africa you go if you want them!.

Spanish one's come in about late February early march

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"If we had to we could yes

I challenge you to try it for a week!

Easy.

I challenge you to stop talking out of your arse for a week!

Right, so no tea or coffee, no pepper, no wine, no olive oil, no chocolate, virtually no fruit, probably no tomatoes or tomato based products. That's just for starters.

Wine is produced here in the UK.

I don't eat much chocolate.

It's December

You are going to struggle to find that stuff, grown in the UK, in the middle of winter.

we tin it

I don't think CLCC understands the concept of the harvest, where you grow enough through spring, summer and autumn to see you through the winter time. "
.

That's the whole point of jams and chutneys

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

On another note most Spanish fruit is grown in huge airfield size polytunnels.

They simply don't have enough water without using them

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

We also over produce dairy products which means we could eat more ice cream which means more blokes would turn gay which means there would be more women to go around for those who refrain

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By *LCCCouple over a year ago

Cambridge

"We also over produce dairy products which means we could eat more ice cream which means more blokes would turn gay which means there would be more women to go around for those who refrain

Vanilla ice cream? Nope

Chocolate maybe? Nope

Strawberry ice cream? We'll have to wait six months

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By *LCCCouple over a year ago

Cambridge

"On another note most Spanish fruit is grown in huge airfield size polytunnels.

They simply don't have enough water without using them"

And would you like the British countryside to look like that?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"On another note most Spanish fruit is grown in huge airfield size polytunnels.

They simply don't have enough water without using them

And would you like the British countryside to look like that? "

we've got plenty of water

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By *illwill69uMan over a year ago

moston

In 1940 the population was around 48 million and we could not feed ourselves.

Today the population is around 60 million. Why would anyone think that with an extra 12 million mouths to feed we could do it now when we couldn't then?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"We also over produce dairy products which means we could eat more ice cream which means more blokes would turn gay which means there would be more women to go around for those who refrain

Vanilla ice cream? Nope

Chocolate maybe? Nope

Strawberry ice cream? We'll have to wait six months"

if you can grow a meat free burger I'm sure you could flavour ice cream

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By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

"On another note most Spanish fruit is grown in huge airfield size polytunnels.

They simply don't have enough water without using them

And would you like the British countryside to look like that?

we've got plenty of water"

I did wonder why the British keep complaining about all the rain we get here.

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By *LCCCouple over a year ago

Cambridge

"On another note most Spanish fruit is grown in huge airfield size polytunnels.

They simply don't have enough water without using them

And would you like the British countryside to look like that?

we've got plenty of water"

We would need them for heat, not water. Spain is warmer than the UK.

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By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

"In 1940 the population was around 48 million and we could not feed ourselves.

Today the population is around 60 million. Why would anyone think that with an extra 12 million mouths to feed we could do it now when we couldn't then?"

Technology. The technology in farming methods has moved on a fair bit since 1940.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"In 1940 the population was around 48 million and we could not feed ourselves.

Today the population is around 60 million. Why would anyone think that with an extra 12 million mouths to feed we could do it now when we couldn't then?

Technology. The technology in farming methods has moved on a fair bit since 1940. "

the war taught us the need to be more self sufficient and by the 80's we grew 70% of our needs even though we didn't have to. Ye food might get a bit boring but it can be done

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By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

"On another note most Spanish fruit is grown in huge airfield size polytunnels.

They simply don't have enough water without using them

And would you like the British countryside to look like that?

we've got plenty of water

We would need them for heat, not water. Spain is warmer than the UK.

Many UK farmers already use polytunnels to grow strawberries (and other produce). Sorry to disappoint you but its already happened.

Do you also object to wind farms and solar farms for our energy needs because they ruin the look of the countryside?

You seem to want to let in an unlimited amount of immigrants, are you ok with developing on the green belt and destroying the countryside in order to build more houses for them?

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By *illwill69uMan over a year ago

moston

"Technology. The technology in farming methods has moved on a fair bit since 1940. "

Why do people come out with rubbish like this? Is it because they genuinely believe this claptrap or do they just refuse to listen to the experts when they are told things they don't want to hear?

Try to understand this...

All land has a maximum sustainable production level, if you use chemicals to force extra production from land you strip it of its natural nutrients and eventually make the land baron. We did that in the 70's, 80's, and 90's. We are now looking at the potential collapse of pollinating insect populations across the world. Are you suggesting more of the same? Can you really be that myopically stupid? Or is it just that you know better than the experts?

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By *enard ArgenteMan over a year ago

London and France

"The "Good life" of raising pigs and ploughing your lawn to plant spuds is a dystopian nightmare.How exactly does this work in a block flats in Birmingham or london.

We would be one step from hunter gatherers.

Plenty of people in London (and Birmingham) own allotments, have you never watched Eastenders or Only fools and horses?

Half of the UK is covered with farmers fields. I think the OP was suggesting we buy UK produced goods from the supermarket.

Actually 73% of the UK is agricultural land.( that includes land such as the fells where the only possible agriculture is sheep farming)

The UK self sufficiency for food is approximately 70% as at 2015; ( depending how we calculate it)

By 2025 it will be 53%; by 2035 it will be about 40%.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I Think some think pre war food was great.Spam and tinned peaches.Its was a culinary wasteland.

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By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

"I Think some think pre war food was great.Spam and tinned peaches.Its was a culinary wasteland.

No so many obese people around then though as there are in today's society.

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By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

"Technology. The technology in farming methods has moved on a fair bit since 1940.

Why do people come out with rubbish like this? Is it because they genuinely believe this claptrap or do they just refuse to listen to the experts when they are told things they don't want to hear?

Try to understand this...

The land we have is managed. Please point out where on this thread I said it wasn't. If you don't think technology has moved on since 1940 I'd say it's you who is myopically stupid. Technology in farming goes far beyond the use of chemicals which seems to be the only thing you can come up with?

We already produce too much food in some areas, such as potatoes, Walkers export their crisps all over the world.

Someone else already mentioned on the thread we also produce too much Dairy products, UK cheese is exported.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I Think some think pre war food was great.Spam and tinned peaches.Its was a culinary wasteland.

No so many obese people around then though as there are in today's society. "
There is any easier solution tax fat and sugar in food and use the money to subsidize vegetables and fruit.Although you cant force people to eat healthy you can make it easier and cheaper.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 29/12/16 14:43:04]

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I cant see them work for average wage, helping the farmers in the fields, this is the playstation generation and not the 1950s.

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By *hetalkingstoveMan over a year ago

London

What a ridiculous discussion. Is this where Brexit has taken us? Discussing not eating any foreign food? Good grief.

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By *LCCCouple over a year ago

Cambridge

"What a ridiculous discussion. Is this where Brexit has taken us? Discussing not eating any foreign food? Good grief."

Its a brave new world

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By *ELLONS AND CREAMWoman over a year ago

stourbridge area

Do u mean an allotment ... chickens and pigs in the garden .....as in "The good life "

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By *mmabluTV/TS over a year ago

upton wirral

"Have you had any tea or coffee this morning? "
If there was no tea I would start a revolution tea is what makes us British

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"If we had to we could yes

I challenge you to try it for a week! "

Lol ok

But seriously with modern methods I'm sure we could grow tea and coffee beans here if we wanted to !

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Good was just one example .

I'd like to see us do our own manufacturing like we used to !

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Good was just one example .

I'd like to see us do our own manufacturing like we used to !"

I wouldn't. I'd have to pay much more for everything I wanted to buy. If people had a burning desire to buy British, the market would be filling that desire. They don't, so it doesn't.

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By *illwill69uMan over a year ago

moston

"The land we have is managed. Please point out where on this thread I said it wasn't. If you don't think technology has moved on since 1940 I'd say it's you who is myopically stupid. Technology in farming goes far beyond the use of chemicals which seems to be the only thing you can come up with?

We already produce too much food in some areas, such as potatoes, Walkers export their crisps all over the world.

Someone else already mentioned on the thread we also produce too much Dairy products, UK cheese is exported. "

OMG!

You really do need to do some catching up when it comes to agriscience.

There is even a name for what you seem to want to reintroduce. Its called making monoculture deserts. The land looks healthy and produces high yields for a few years and then production collapses. There is a reason why we are being given wildflower seeds for free. There is a reason that farmers are now being paid to replant hedges and leave wide uncultivated field margins. It is because intensive farming has proven itself to be unsustainable. Attempting to become self sufficient has caused untold damage to our ecosystem and wildlife and now threatens very existence. That anyone would be ignorant of such an important issue is very disturbing.

This country can not viably support its population without food imports. But as you say Walkers export crisps so all is well in the world and I am wrong...

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By *anes HubbyCouple over a year ago

Babbacombe Torquay

I've got news for the deluded Brexiteers......the British palate has moved on from the 1950's, the people of this great island are not prepared to 'make do and mend', they work hard and they want to spend those hard earned pennies on luxury goods, including foods that cannot be grown in the U.K.

You are living in la la land.....

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

We already produce too much food in some areas, such as potatoes, Walkers export their crisps all over the world.

Someone else already mentioned on the thread we also produce too much Dairy products, UK cheese is exported.

OMG!

You really do need to do some catching up when it comes to agriscience.

This country can not viably support its population without food imports. But as you say Walkers export crisps so all is well in the world and I am wrong...

"
So true and lets not forget the pollinating insects are dieing in numbers never seen before.Its a looming catastrophe for agriculture.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

PJ tips tea comes from afrika

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By *anes HubbyCouple over a year ago

Babbacombe Torquay

"PJ tips tea comes from afrika

Most black tea comes from East Africa, that is where it is blended and auctioned. Kenya is the source for most of our breakfast tea, although it's often blended with tea from India in massive tea warehouses in Mombasa.

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By *leasure domMan over a year ago

Edinburgh

The world's best tea is grown in Scotland. It's very expensive though, with limited production.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I've got news for the deluded Brexiteers......the British palate has moved on from the 1950's, the people of this great island are not prepared to 'make do and mend', they work hard and they want to spend those hard earned pennies on luxury goods, including foods that cannot be grown in the U.K.

You are living in la la land.....

what does this subject have to do with Brexiteers? Do you think 17 million live on dripping and tripe and don't work hard? well apart from darning their socks?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

You are living in la la land.....

what does this subject have to do with Brexiteers? Do you think 17 million live on dripping and tripe and don't work hard? well apart from darning their socks?"

The first post in the thread made it about Brexiteers.

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By *anes HubbyCouple over a year ago

Babbacombe Torquay

You are living in la la land.....

what does this subject have to do with Brexiteers? Do you think 17 million live on dripping and tripe and don't work hard? well apart from darning their socks?"

The OP made it about Brexit.....you need to get to Specsavers in the New Year......

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"PJ tips tea comes from afrika

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

You are living in la la land.....

what does this subject have to do with Brexiteers? Do you think 17 million live on dripping and tripe and don't work hard? well apart from darning their socks?

The OP made it about Brexit.....you need to get to Specsavers in the New Year......

ah, Be Moaners, sorry I get it now.

Right, off to plough my lawn

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By *oi_LucyCouple over a year ago

Barbados

Might this all be a bit of a moot point until we develop a self-sufficient enough vehicle fuel to replace all the diesel we need to move the produce around the UK? I mean, yes keep the food miles down by all means, but we are still going to need to move things about.

And yes renewables will certainly help in terms of energy production, but we don't yet have a wide enough network of hydrogen filling points to move that energy about in vehicles.

-Matt

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By *andS66Couple over a year ago

Derby

"If we had to we could yes

I challenge you to try it for a week!

Easy.

I challenge you to stop talking out of your arse for a week!

Right, so no tea or coffee, no pepper, no wine, no olive oil, no chocolate, virtually no fruit, probably no tomatoes or tomato based products. That's just for starters."

There is tea grown in England

There are vineyards here too

Our sparkling wine now gives most champagnes a run for their money

Tomatoes are grown here

Plenty of different fruits

All you have to do is google

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By *anes HubbyCouple over a year ago

Babbacombe Torquay

I think if you were in the food supply trade you would appreciate a little more how important imported food stuffs are, there are other important things to consider such as production costs, which most British producers cannot compete on when it comes to many everyday goods.

Your everyday cup of tea in a cafe for example would well be eight to ten times more expensive if using British produced Tea.....and the tea they produce and blend is more likely to be found in Harrods food hall than Tesco.

It's a great idea....but in reality is a dream that could and would never work on the real world.

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By *oi_LucyCouple over a year ago

Barbados

"If we had to we could yes

I challenge you to try it for a week!

Easy.

I challenge you to stop talking out of your arse for a week!

Right, so no tea or coffee, no pepper, no wine, no olive oil, no chocolate, virtually no fruit, probably no tomatoes or tomato based products. That's just for starters.

There is tea grown in England

There are vineyards here too

Our sparkling wine now gives most champagnes a run for their money

Tomatoes are grown here

Plenty of different fruits

All you have to do is google

So, if all you have to do is google, then you will have seen that we produce about 4.5 million bottles of wine in the UK per annum. And the British public consume about 1.8 billion bottles per annum. So as you are so clever you will be able to divide those two numbers (google has a calculator you can use) and you will then know that the current UK wine production would need to be scaled 400 times to meet our demand for wine.

So... no problem there then. Here, hold this bucket... I'll go plant some more vines... I'll be right back in a jiffy.

I'll leave you to google how our tea and tomato volumes fair.

-Matt

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By *anes HubbyCouple over a year ago

Babbacombe Torquay

I personally know Jon who runs the Tregothnan Estate in Cornwall, he is the foremost tea producer in the UK, we met at a food trade show in 2012 in Exeter called 'The Source', where he was looking for distributors and wholesalers.

He isn't producing everyday breakfast teas, he only produces and blends specialist teas like Earl Grey and Fruit teas.

Jons teas can be found mainly in Harrods and Fortnum & Mason.....that's the reality.

The reason?........he couldn't possibly compete with African or Indian tea growers in the every day market.

I think people need to wake up to a bit of reality.....

This utopian world where Britain produces al of the food and drink consumed here will never be realised, it's all a deluded dream.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Might this all be a bit of a moot point until we develop a self-sufficient enough vehicle fuel to replace all the diesel we need to move the produce around the UK? I mean, yes keep the food miles down by all means, but we are still going to need to move things about.

And yes renewables will certainly help in terms of energy production, but we don't yet have a wide enough network of hydrogen filling points to move that energy about in vehicles.

-Matt"
.

Moot points?.

So where you getting the hydrogen from?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Moot points?.

How much petroleum energy in a potato grown in new Zealand and exported here?.

You might be interested to know it's more energy than what's in the potatoe?.

Sustainable?.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Nearly everybody on this thread is blissful unaware of energy and consumption.

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By *oi_LucyCouple over a year ago

Barbados

And yes renewables will certainly help in terms of energy production, but we don't yet have a wide enough network of hydrogen filling points to move that energy about in vehicles.

-Matt.

Moot points?.

So where you getting the hydrogen from?"

Well, the theory is that it would be generated using the power from renewables... but we are nowhere near that level of production and distribution yet. We'll be dependant on importing liquid energy (e.g. diesel) for a long time yet for vehicles.

-Matt

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

And yes renewables will certainly help in terms of energy production, but we don't yet have a wide enough network of hydrogen filling points to move that energy about in vehicles.

-Matt.

Moot points?.

So where you getting the hydrogen from?

-Matt"
.

It's utter nonsense, they tell you this stuff to keep you quiet.

If you want to extract hydrogen from sea water it takes more energy to extract it than you get from the hydrogen you get.

So not only would you have to scale renewables to the 40 million barrels of oil a day we currently use on transport but you'd have to factor in the energy wastage... So that's about 60 million barrels of oil a day in today's rate.

That's before you even factor in growth.... You know the world revolves around growth.

There isn't enough precious metals on earth to build these solar panels!.

Sooner or later we're going to run into the wall, by the evidence I'd say it's sooner rather than later

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I don't care what you claim your religion is...... Your actually all following the petroleum God!.

And he's a vengeful evil fucker that makes Mohammed look like a pussy.

So keep praying, your gonna need him

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By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

We already produce too much food in some areas, such as potatoes, Walkers export their crisps all over the world.

Someone else already mentioned on the thread we also produce too much Dairy products, UK cheese is exported.

OMG!

You really do need to do some catching up when it comes to agriscience.

This country can not viably support its population without food imports. But as you say Walkers export crisps so all is well in the world and I am wrong...

We've not been attempting to become self sufficient though. As I said the land we have is already managed and farmers leave fields fallow while they plant others and it goes around in a cycle so as not to overwork the soil, and still we produce too much for our own needs and we export lots of food produce all over the world. Where fields do become depleted in nutrients then farmers use manure and muck spreading machines to replace the nutrients in the soil.

If anyone has seen the film starring Matt Damon where he is stranded on Mars called 'The Martian', you'll see he calculated he wouldn't have enough rations to survive on so needed to grow his own food. He had no suitable soil on Mars to grow food in so in effect he used human waste as a manure. The science in the film is sound and realistic so if someone can grow potatoes on Mars without any soil and limited water and limited oxygen /carbon dioxide it stands to reason we can grow more than enough here in the UK. Pretty sure there are no bees on Mars either.

People seem to be missing the point of the thread, we don't need to become self sufficient and of course we will Continue to export and import after Brexit, but if push comes to shove and we did need to be self sufficient as in a war situation then we could produce enough to sustain our own population.

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By *oi_LucyCouple over a year ago

Barbados

And yes renewables will certainly help in terms of energy production, but we don't yet have a wide enough network of hydrogen filling points to move that energy about in vehicles.

-Matt.

Moot points?.

So where you getting the hydrogen from?

-Matt.

It's utter nonsense, they tell you this stuff to keep you quiet.

If you want to extract hydrogen from sea water it takes more energy to extract it than you get from the hydrogen you get.

That's before you even factor in growth.... You know the world revolves around growth.

There isn't enough precious metals on earth to build these solar panels!.

Sooner or later we're going to run into the wall, by the evidence I'd say it's sooner rather than later"

You seem to be misunderstanding me, I think. Maybe I wasn't clear. I totally agree with your points. My post was saying that hydrogen is *not* going to be the practical solution to our energy needs any time soon.

-Matt

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By *oi_LucyCouple over a year ago

Barbados

"If anyone has seen the film starring Matt Damon where he is stranded on Mars called 'The Martian', you'll see he calculated he wouldn't have enough rations to survive on so needed to grow his own food. He had no suitable soil on Mars to grow food in so in effect he used human waste as a manure. The science in the film is sound and realistic so if someone can grow potatoes on Mars without any soil and limited water and limited oxygen /carbon dioxide it stands to reason we can grow more than enough here in the UK. Pretty sure there are no bees on Mars either.

Ummm... you do know that film is fiction right? I mean, yes, some of the science may check out... but... really? I mean, given the option of dying on Mars or living of potatoes, then I'd take potatoes, of course.

But I'm not stuck on Mars. I live in a vaguely civilised country and have a choice of what I eat and drink and where I go etc. Given a choice of living off a diet of potatoes in the UK or moving to another country that is not so belligerent then I'd probably move somewhere else. But I'd rather hope we don't go down the potatoe route to be honest!

-Matt

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By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

"Do u mean an allotment ... chickens and pigs in the garden .....as in "The good life ""

No the allotment as in The Fowler family's allotment in Eastenders and Del boys allotment in only fools and horses.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Do u mean an allotment ... chickens and pigs in the garden .....as in "The good life "

No the allotment as in The Fowler family's allotment in Eastenders and Del boys allotment in only fools and horses.

"
when i lived in Manchester there was a ten year waiting list for allotments

Have you ever tried getting one

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By *enard ArgenteMan over a year ago

London and France

"Do u mean an allotment ... chickens and pigs in the garden .....as in "The good life "

No the allotment as in The Fowler family's allotment in Eastenders and Del boys allotment in only fools and horses.

Allotments; marvellous places; but despite laws which are supposed to prevent councils from closing them, over 200 allotments ( that is allotment sites, not individual allotments: so in the region of 15,000 actual allotments) have been closed and built on in the last 15 years .

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

I've enjoyed reading the replys

But I must stress I do realise we couldn't change overnight !

But we could start to put things in place and yes some things would cost more but hopefully we would all earn more .

We could start re training , re building , designing , re searching !

Aim for Quality !

Then even if we didn't import much , other country's would buy off us because our goods would be the Best

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *oncupiscentTonyMan over a year ago

Kent

"If we had to we could yes

I challenge you to try it for a week!

Easy.

I challenge you to stop talking out of your arse for a week!

Right, so no tea or coffee, no pepper, no wine, no olive oil, no chocolate, virtually no fruit, probably no tomatoes or tomato based products. That's just for starters.

Wine is produced here in the UK.

I don't eat much chocolate.

It's December

You are going to struggle to find that stuff, grown in the UK, in the middle of winter.

we tin it

I don't think CLCC understands the concept of the harvest, where you grow enough through spring, summer and autumn to see you through the winter time. "

Every uk grown potato you eat between now and Easter is now sitting in cold storage and it still won't be enough. The UK has been importing thousands of tonnes of food for the last 200 years, it's not a new phenomenon and it's not just strawberries in December or the finest Italian plonk either.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I've enjoyed reading the replys

But I must stress I do realise we couldn't change overnight !

But we could start to put things in place and yes some things would cost more but hopefully we would all earn more .

We could start re training , re building , designing , re searching !

Aim for Quality !

Then even if we didn't import much , other country's would buy off us because our goods would be the Best

Can you explain how we'd earn more?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"I've enjoyed reading the replys

But I must stress I do realise we couldn't change overnight !

But we could start to put things in place and yes some things would cost more but hopefully we would all earn more .

We could start re training , re building , designing , re searching !

Aim for Quality !

Then even if we didn't import much , other country's would buy off us because our goods would be the Best

Can you explain how we'd earn more? "

Hopefully in time the jobs would be skilled and high paid , we would be making things again , I'm not saying it would be easy , but in time hopefully we would be all better off

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I've enjoyed reading the replys

But I must stress I do realise we couldn't change overnight !

But we could start to put things in place and yes some things would cost more but hopefully we would all earn more .

We could start re training , re building , designing , re searching !

Aim for Quality !

Then even if we didn't import much , other country's would buy off us because our goods would be the Best

Can you explain how we'd earn more?

Hopefully in time the jobs would be skilled and high paid , we would be making things again , I'm not saying it would be easy , but in time hopefully we would be all better off

So who is farming the land to grow all the food and working in the factories to make all the stuff?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *oncupiscentTonyMan over a year ago

Kent

"I've enjoyed reading the replys

But I must stress I do realise we couldn't change overnight !

But we could start to put things in place and yes some things would cost more but hopefully we would all earn more .

We could start re training , re building , designing , re searching !

Aim for Quality !

Then even if we didn't import much , other country's would buy off us because our goods would be the Best

Can you explain how we'd earn more?

Hopefully in time the jobs would be skilled and high paid , we would be making things again , I'm not saying it would be easy , but in time hopefully we would be all better off

So who is farming the land to grow all the food and working in the factories to make all the stuff?"

I don't know about elsewhere but in my neck of the woods (which has quite a few strawberry patches) they don't have a local accent

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"I've enjoyed reading the replys

But I must stress I do realise we couldn't change overnight !

But we could start to put things in place and yes some things would cost more but hopefully we would all earn more .

We could start re training , re building , designing , re searching !

Aim for Quality !

Then even if we didn't import much , other country's would buy off us because our goods would be the Best

Can you explain how we'd earn more?

Hopefully in time the jobs would be skilled and high paid , we would be making things again , I'm not saying it would be easy , but in time hopefully we would be all better off

So who is farming the land to grow all the food and working in the factories to make all the stuff?"

People in jobs changing jobs and people who haven't got jobs

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *LCCCouple over a year ago

Cambridge

"I've enjoyed reading the replys

But I must stress I do realise we couldn't change overnight !

But we could start to put things in place and yes some things would cost more but hopefully we would all earn more .

We could start re training , re building , designing , re searching !

Aim for Quality !

Then even if we didn't import much , other country's would buy off us because our goods would be the Best

Can you explain how we'd earn more?

Hopefully in time the jobs would be skilled and high paid , we would be making things again , I'm not saying it would be easy , but in time hopefully we would be all better off

So who is farming the land to grow all the food and working in the factories to make all the stuff?

People in jobs changing jobs and people who haven't got jobs

So once our service industry has disappeared, all those merchant bankers and corporate lawyers can start picking fruit instead, I'm sure they will be thrilled at the idea!

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I've enjoyed reading the replys

But I must stress I do realise we couldn't change overnight !

But we could start to put things in place and yes some things would cost more but hopefully we would all earn more .

We could start re training , re building , designing , re searching !

Aim for Quality !

Then even if we didn't import much , other country's would buy off us because our goods would be the Best

Can you explain how we'd earn more?

Hopefully in time the jobs would be skilled and high paid , we would be making things again , I'm not saying it would be easy , but in time hopefully we would be all better off

So who is farming the land to grow all the food and working in the factories to make all the stuff?

People in jobs changing jobs and people who haven't got jobs

But why is farming and manufacturing suddenly paying more than it does now?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *oi_LucyCouple over a year ago

Barbados

"I've enjoyed reading the replys

But I must stress I do realise we couldn't change overnight !

But we could start to put things in place and yes some things would cost more but hopefully we would all earn more .

We could start re training , re building , designing , re searching !

Aim for Quality !

Then even if we didn't import much , other country's would buy off us because our goods would be the Best

Can you explain how we'd earn more?

Hopefully in time the jobs would be skilled and high paid , we would be making things again , I'm not saying it would be easy , but in time hopefully we would be all better off

So who is farming the land to grow all the food and working in the factories to make all the stuff?

People in jobs changing jobs and people who haven't got jobs

Well, why aren't our jobless all doing these jobs now then? I mean, you seem to think that we could pay them a suitably high wage to sustain them... why don't we do that now? Perhaps because to pay them a higher wage would mean those goods would be more expensive. And would the consumers buy those things at a premium? All the fruits and other food things that we either imported or got cheaper labour to farm here? I'd wager the majority of people would balk at the increased price and look to buy imported goods cheaper instead. How would the UK ensure that our more expensive home-grown goods would compete financially with the cheaper competition from overseas? The govt would have to impose some sort of fee or tariff on the imports... but aren't we meant to be negotiating free trade deals with the world now?

-Matt

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By *obka3Couple over a year ago

bournemouth

We could grow enough food in this country provided consumers were prepared to pay the extra cost . We would need to eat more food in season and would lose access to some of the more exotic friuts and veg but most of what we eat can be grown here, production of milk could be increased over a three year period to make up the shortfall as we are only around 80% self sufficient we over produce cereals currently but most of this surplus would go to feed the extra pigs and cows we would need,we have a surplus of lamb, but sheep will thrive in places where little else will. It wont ever happen as all governments want cheap food to keep their voters happy so they have extra cash to buy a new telly and phones

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"I've enjoyed reading the replys

But I must stress I do realise we couldn't change overnight !

But we could start to put things in place and yes some things would cost more but hopefully we would all earn more .

We could start re training , re building , designing , re searching !

Aim for Quality !

Then even if we didn't import much , other country's would buy off us because our goods would be the Best

Can you explain how we'd earn more?

Hopefully in time the jobs would be skilled and high paid , we would be making things again , I'm not saying it would be easy , but in time hopefully we would be all better off

So who is farming the land to grow all the food and working in the factories to make all the stuff?

People in jobs changing jobs and people who haven't got jobs

So once our service industry has disappeared, all those merchant bankers and corporate lawyers can start picking fruit instead, I'm sure they will be thrilled at the idea!

What a good idea

Now your talking !

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"I've enjoyed reading the replys

But I must stress I do realise we couldn't change overnight !

But we could start to put things in place and yes some things would cost more but hopefully we would all earn more .

We could start re training , re building , designing , re searching !

Aim for Quality !

Then even if we didn't import much , other country's would buy off us because our goods would be the Best

Can you explain how we'd earn more?

Hopefully in time the jobs would be skilled and high paid , we would be making things again , I'm not saying it would be easy , but in time hopefully we would be all better off

So who is farming the land to grow all the food and working in the factories to make all the stuff?

People in jobs changing jobs and people who haven't got jobs

But why is farming and manufacturing suddenly paying more than it does now? "

Hopefully Thier would before demand , also we don't really do any manufacturing now , hopefully on time we would be a high producing high wage economy

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *oi_LucyCouple over a year ago

Barbados

"We could grow enough food in this country provided consumers were prepared to pay the extra cost . We would need to eat more food in season and would lose access to some of the more exotic friuts and veg but most of what we eat can be grown here, production of milk could be increased over a three year period to make up the shortfall as we are only around 80% self sufficient we over produce cereals currently but most of this surplus would go to feed the extra pigs and cows we would need,we have a surplus of lamb, but sheep will thrive in places where little else will. It wont ever happen as all governments want cheap food to keep their voters happy so they have extra cash to buy a new telly and phones"

"provided consumers were prepared to pay the extra cost " but that is the main question isn't it? I mean, we've just embarked on a massive upheaval to leave the EU in part because people think a couple of quid a week each for the privilege is too much. I would guess that the 'weekly shop' is probably one area that so many people are sensitive to price increase in. With the growing use of food banks over recent years, I'm guessing that hiking the cost of food is going to be a hard one for people to accept.

-Matt

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By *oi_LucyCouple over a year ago

Barbados

"I've enjoyed reading the replys

But I must stress I do realise we couldn't change overnight !

But we could start to put things in place and yes some things would cost more but hopefully we would all earn more .

We could start re training , re building , designing , re searching !

Aim for Quality !

Then even if we didn't import much , other country's would buy off us because our goods would be the Best

Can you explain how we'd earn more?

Hopefully in time the jobs would be skilled and high paid , we would be making things again , I'm not saying it would be easy , but in time hopefully we would be all better off

So who is farming the land to grow all the food and working in the factories to make all the stuff?

People in jobs changing jobs and people who haven't got jobs

But why is farming and manufacturing suddenly paying more than it does now?

Hopefully Thier would before demand , also we don't really do any manufacturing now , hopefully on time we would be a high producing high wage economy

"
]

But why would there be more demand? Pure patriotism? I doubt that will wash. Unless you artificially restrict access to imported equivalents somehow, I just don't see where this demand will come from.

-Matt

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By *imiUKMan over a year ago

Hereford

Are you an agronomist?

We haven't been self-sufficient in grain since before WW1 - we used to import lots from the colonies (esp Canada). THis is why protecting the Atlantic convoys was so important in WW2.

We still don't grow enough bread-quality grain for milling, we are a net importer of pork and beef. We do, however produce about 120% of our sheep meat consumption.

Dairying is ultra-efficient now - it has to be, the margins are tiny.

We possibly could be self-suficient in future if: People grew their own veg (this would be a hell of a lot more efficient in urban areas if it was done as a community project), kept more poultry (fed on scraps) and if pigs went back to doing what they were domesticated for (ie producing meat from waste), however this would require a change in both disease regs and public attitude.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"I've enjoyed reading the replys

But I must stress I do realise we couldn't change overnight !

But we could start to put things in place and yes some things would cost more but hopefully we would all earn more .

We could start re training , re building , designing , re searching !

Aim for Quality !

Then even if we didn't import much , other country's would buy off us because our goods would be the Best

Can you explain how we'd earn more?

Hopefully in time the jobs would be skilled and high paid , we would be making things again , I'm not saying it would be easy , but in time hopefully we would be all better off

So who is farming the land to grow all the food and working in the factories to make all the stuff?

People in jobs changing jobs and people who haven't got jobs

But why is farming and manufacturing suddenly paying more than it does now?

Hopefully Thier would before demand , also we don't really do any manufacturing now , hopefully on time we would be a high producing high wage economy

]

-Matt"

Yes I think we could severely restrict imports of goods we could ourselves

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Politcal suicide for someone.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I've enjoyed reading the replys

But I must stress I do realise we couldn't change overnight !

But we could start to put things in place and yes some things would cost more but hopefully we would all earn more .

We could start re training , re building , designing , re searching !

Aim for Quality !

Then even if we didn't import much , other country's would buy off us because our goods would be the Best

Can you explain how we'd earn more?

Hopefully in time the jobs would be skilled and high paid , we would be making things again , I'm not saying it would be easy , but in time hopefully we would be all better off

So who is farming the land to grow all the food and working in the factories to make all the stuff?

People in jobs changing jobs and people who haven't got jobs

But why is farming and manufacturing suddenly paying more than it does now?

Hopefully Thier would before demand , also we don't really do any manufacturing now , hopefully on time we would be a high producing high wage economy

]

-Matt

Yes I think we could severely restrict imports of goods we could ourselves "

But if we want to export stuff to other countries (which presumably we do) then why would those other countries agree to trade with us on those terms?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *imiUKMan over a year ago

Hereford

"I've enjoyed reading the replys

But I must stress I do realise we couldn't change overnight !

But we could start to put things in place and yes some things would cost more but hopefully we would all earn more .

We could start re training , re building , designing , re searching !

Aim for Quality !

Then even if we didn't import much , other country's would buy off us because our goods would be the Best

Other countries do buy the stuff we produce a surplus of and it does have a reputation for quality, as it goes.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Ok, so at the moment about 30% of the food in this country gets thrown away or wasted so if we can grow 66% of our needs and eat it all we're sorted

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *oi_LucyCouple over a year ago

Barbados

"Ok, so at the moment about 30% of the food in this country gets thrown away or wasted so if we can grow 66% of our needs and eat it all we're sorted

Lol

-Matt

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"I've enjoyed reading the replys

But I must stress I do realise we couldn't change overnight !

But we could start to put things in place and yes some things would cost more but hopefully we would all earn more .

We could start re training , re building , designing , re searching !

Aim for Quality !

Then even if we didn't import much , other country's would buy off us because our goods would be the Best

Can you explain how we'd earn more?

Hopefully in time the jobs would be skilled and high paid , we would be making things again , I'm not saying it would be easy , but in time hopefully we would be all better off

So who is farming the land to grow all the food and working in the factories to make all the stuff?

People in jobs changing jobs and people who haven't got jobs

But why is farming and manufacturing suddenly paying more than it does now?

Hopefully Thier would before demand , also we don't really do any manufacturing now , hopefully on time we would be a high producing high wage economy

]

-Matt

Yes I think we could severely restrict imports of goods we could ourselves

But if we want to export stuff to other countries (which presumably we do) then why would those other countries agree to trade with us on those terms?"

Because we make our stuff so good that everyone will want it wether we buy off them or not

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Ok, so at the moment about 30% of the food in this country gets thrown away or wasted so if we can grow 66% of our needs and eat it all we're sorted

Sounds good

Why don't more people look at the glass half full not half empty

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I've enjoyed reading the replys

But I must stress I do realise we couldn't change overnight !

But we could start to put things in place and yes some things would cost more but hopefully we would all earn more .

We could start re training , re building , designing , re searching !

Aim for Quality !

Then even if we didn't import much , other country's would buy off us because our goods would be the Best

Can you explain how we'd earn more?

Hopefully in time the jobs would be skilled and high paid , we would be making things again , I'm not saying it would be easy , but in time hopefully we would be all better off

So who is farming the land to grow all the food and working in the factories to make all the stuff?

People in jobs changing jobs and people who haven't got jobs

But why is farming and manufacturing suddenly paying more than it does now?

Hopefully Thier would before demand , also we don't really do any manufacturing now , hopefully on time we would be a high producing high wage economy

]

-Matt

Yes I think we could severely restrict imports of goods we could ourselves

But if we want to export stuff to other countries (which presumably we do) then why would those other countries agree to trade with us on those terms?

Because we make our stuff so good that everyone will want it wether we buy off them or not

So why aren't we making all this good stuff now? And without experience, how is our stuff going to be so good?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"I've enjoyed reading the replys

But I must stress I do realise we couldn't change overnight !

But we could start to put things in place and yes some things would cost more but hopefully we would all earn more .

We could start re training , re building , designing , re searching !

Aim for Quality !

Then even if we didn't import much , other country's would buy off us because our goods would be the Best

Can you explain how we'd earn more?

Hopefully in time the jobs would be skilled and high paid , we would be making things again , I'm not saying it would be easy , but in time hopefully we would be all better off

So who is farming the land to grow all the food and working in the factories to make all the stuff?

People in jobs changing jobs and people who haven't got jobs

But why is farming and manufacturing suddenly paying more than it does now?

Hopefully Thier would before demand , also we don't really do any manufacturing now , hopefully on time we would be a high producing high wage economy

]

-Matt

Yes I think we could severely restrict imports of goods we could ourselves

But if we want to export stuff to other countries (which presumably we do) then why would those other countries agree to trade with us on those terms?

Because we make our stuff so good that everyone will want it wether we buy off them or not

So why aren't we making all this good stuff now? And without experience, how is our stuff going to be so good? "

I don't know why we don't .

And quality would take time , but wouldn't it be great to have a go

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I've enjoyed reading the replys

But I must stress I do realise we couldn't change overnight !

But we could start to put things in place and yes some things would cost more but hopefully we would all earn more .

We could start re training , re building , designing , re searching !

Aim for Quality !

Then even if we didn't import much , other country's would buy off us because our goods would be the Best

Can you explain how we'd earn more?

Hopefully in time the jobs would be skilled and high paid , we would be making things again , I'm not saying it would be easy , but in time hopefully we would be all better off

So who is farming the land to grow all the food and working in the factories to make all the stuff?

People in jobs changing jobs and people who haven't got jobs

But why is farming and manufacturing suddenly paying more than it does now?

Hopefully Thier would before demand , also we don't really do any manufacturing now , hopefully on time we would be a high producing high wage economy

]

-Matt

Yes I think we could severely restrict imports of goods we could ourselves

But if we want to export stuff to other countries (which presumably we do) then why would those other countries agree to trade with us on those terms?

Because we make our stuff so good that everyone will want it wether we buy off them or not

So why aren't we making all this good stuff now? And without experience, how is our stuff going to be so good?

I don't know why we don't .

And quality would take time , but wouldn't it be great to have a go

Not really, no. Optimism and pride is great, but there needs to be a foundation of reality and possibility that's absent in this.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"I've enjoyed reading the replys

But I must stress I do realise we couldn't change overnight !

But we could start to put things in place and yes some things would cost more but hopefully we would all earn more .

We could start re training , re building , designing , re searching !

Aim for Quality !

Then even if we didn't import much , other country's would buy off us because our goods would be the Best

Can you explain how we'd earn more?

Hopefully in time the jobs would be skilled and high paid , we would be making things again , I'm not saying it would be easy , but in time hopefully we would be all better off

So who is farming the land to grow all the food and working in the factories to make all the stuff?

People in jobs changing jobs and people who haven't got jobs

But why is farming and manufacturing suddenly paying more than it does now?

Hopefully Thier would before demand , also we don't really do any manufacturing now , hopefully on time we would be a high producing high wage economy

]

-Matt

Yes I think we could severely restrict imports of goods we could ourselves

But if we want to export stuff to other countries (which presumably we do) then why would those other countries agree to trade with us on those terms?

Because we make our stuff so good that everyone will want it wether we buy off them or not

So why aren't we making all this good stuff now? And without experience, how is our stuff going to be so good?

I don't know why we don't .

And quality would take time , but wouldn't it be great to have a go

Not really, no. Optimism and pride is great, but there needs to be a foundation of reality and possibility that's absent in this. "

Perhaps ?

I can't think of everything lol

Or I'd be the P M

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

-Matt"
.

Matt can I be frank, I'm not arguing with you, less than 1 in 500 people in this country have the slightest clue about energy demands and our current way of living.... Crop yields are dependent on two main things fertilisers (all made from natural gas) and pesticides (all made from oil).... If you were to go into MacDonalds for a cheeseburger you eat more calorific energy from fossil fuels than you do calories from the food... It's been like that for about 20 years.

Do you want to know something scary? Crop yields worldwide have been falling for about ten years, we peaked out in 2005 but population keeps expanding.

Water reserves have plummeted worldwide for decades the Yemen where there currently fighting, they're water table has gone from 7 feet 50 years ago to about 100 foot today... They ain't got no water!... There not alone.

Sure we could desalinate water but that's energy intensive, last year the world used roughly 90 million barrels of oil a day, conventional oil fields peaked out in 2003, the shortfall is being made up by fracking and tar sands and heavy oil in Venezuela, there not cheap to dig up and there very expensive to refine and according to the evidence they don't have much longevity in them, maybe 20 or 30 years, what we're seeing today is the beginning of the fight for the remaining bits of fossil fuel around the globe, this fight will be nasty, the fossil fuel God doesn't give a shit for non believers, he'll trample on everybody and every country until he hoovers up every last drop... This is unstoppable, the world, you and I and Everybody on here demands strawberry's all year round, bananas from central America, tea from Africa, wine from around the globe.... Our palates demand it, were not in the 50s anymore you know!.

Where not getting off petroleum on our current way of life.... They should at least have the honesty in telling you that and they should be honest enough to tell you it doesn't look good for the next few decades if we don't... Or to put it another way... Your kids won't see your age and if they do, it certainly won't be by any standard you've been accustomed to

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By *oi_LucyCouple over a year ago

Barbados

-Matt.

Do you want to know something scary? Crop yields worldwide have been falling for about ten years, we peaked out in 2005 but population keeps expanding.

I know. It is pretty scary. The only point I would say isn't keep religion out of the equation. You've mentioned it a few times in your responses and I fear that it makes the rest of your points sound a bit loony. They are not, but generally people who talk about the end of the world and god in the same sentence tend to be a bit unhinged.

I built and lived in my own motorhome for a while and have an appreciation from that of energy, waste, water needs that the often take for granted.

One evening a few years ago, over a few whiskies, a friend and I were talking about the world that our daughters (both 3 at the time) were going to grow up in and what skills they would need to survive. The evening took quite a melancholy turn. By the end I think we'd settled on archery and how to maintain and fix a series II Land Rover.

-Matt

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By *oi_LucyCouple over a year ago

Barbados

*is keep religion out

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By *obka3Couple over a year ago

bournemouth

Are you an agronomist?

We haven't been self-sufficient in grain since before WW1 - we used to import lots from the colonies (esp Canada). THis is why protecting the Atlantic convoys was so important in WW2.

We still don't grow enough bread-quality grain for milling, we are a net importer of pork and beef. We do, however produce about 120% of our sheep meat consumption.

Dairying is ultra-efficient now - it has to be, the margins are tiny.

Not basis qualified but do my own.

The reason we import milling wheat is down to two reasons, 1 the weather doesnt always play ball 2012 in particular and some specific requirements for some grists. 2 some millers will always import grains, we export more grain than we import apart from maize which current varieties arent that great for our climate although a few growers do take it to harvest here, soya is our biggest import for animal food, some progress is being made with more suitable types for our climate.

Milk production could easily be increased but it would take three years to make any real head way,we have an ideal climate for milk and meat production

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By *imiUKMan over a year ago

Hereford

"I've enjoyed reading the replys

But I must stress I do realise we couldn't change overnight !

But we could start to put things in place and yes some things would cost more but hopefully we would all earn more .

We could start re training , re building , designing , re searching !

Aim for Quality !

Then even if we didn't import much , other country's would buy off us because our goods would be the Best

Can you explain how we'd earn more?

Hopefully in time the jobs would be skilled and high paid , we would be making things again , I'm not saying it would be easy , but in time hopefully we would be all better off

So who is farming the land to grow all the food and working in the factories to make all the stuff?

People in jobs changing jobs and people who haven't got jobs

But why is farming and manufacturing suddenly paying more than it does now?

Hopefully Thier would before demand , also we don't really do any manufacturing now , hopefully on time we would be a high producing high wage economy

]

-Matt

Yes I think we could severely restrict imports of goods we could ourselves

But if we want to export stuff to other countries (which presumably we do) then why would those other countries agree to trade with us on those terms?

Because we make our stuff so good that everyone will want it wether we buy off them or not

So why aren't we making all this good stuff now? And without experience, how is our stuff going to be so good?

I don't know why we don't .

And quality would take time , but wouldn't it be great to have a go

We do make good stuff, and it fetches a premium when we export it. The problem is that we don't produce a surplus to export in most foods.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *obka3Couple over a year ago

bournemouth

-Matt.

Do you want to know something scary? Crop yields worldwide have been falling for about ten years, we peaked out in 2005 but population keeps expanding.

Cant comment on your energy facts, but two things your are wrong on are not all fertilisers are made from natural gas and not all pesticides are made from oil,

I had a very interesting conversation in November with a chap I know who had been visiting his best mate who works in the oil industry, the company he works for belive they have made the biggest ever oil in texas,they are keeping it quiet for obvious reasons, if it is true or not I dont know but inventions will always come to our rescue

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I built and lived in my own motorhome for a while and have an appreciation from that of energy, waste, water needs that the often take for granted.

-Matt"
.

Lol I wish I was unhinged!.

We are all children of fossil fuels wether we like it or not, society as we know it runs on it, it didn't go anywhere for 2000 years until somebody dug coal up and invented the stream engine... Until that day the world used slaves for cheap energy.

The average barrel of oil dug up in Iraq costs about 6 dollars and and another 6 to refine it contains about 12,000 man hours of energy ,that's 12,000 hours of work for 12 dollars... That's cheaper than slavery.... It is however in parts of the world that are problematic to say the least and it's certainly not going to last forever.

Do you know how exponentiality works?.

2% growth a year means you double in 35 ish years, oil usage has a historic 7% growth, that means you double your usage every ten years.

1 2 4 8 16 32 ... It gets hard when the numbers get big, I mean 32 is more than all the numbers before it added up.

The next ten years means you have to find more oil than every combined since it gushed fourth in Pennsylvania in 1888!.

Now ask yourself, am I going to convince this lot to eat seasonal food only?... Even if they understood the complex problems of it, do you honestly think it would make the slightest bit of difference to their mindset!.

Having owned several land rovers I'd have gone with welding over archery

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I built and lived in my own motorhome for a while and have an appreciation from that of energy, waste, water needs that the often take for granted.

-Matt.

Lol I wish I was unhinged!.

Do you know how exponentiality works?.

2% growth a year means you double in 35 ish years, oil usage has a historic 7% growth, that means you double your usage every ten years.

1 2 4 8 16 32 ... It gets hard when the numbers get big, I mean 32 is more than all the numbers before it added up.

The next ten years means you have to find more oil than every combined since it gushed fourth in Pennsylvania in 1888!.

Having owned several land rovers I'd have gone with welding over archery

"
The age of oil is comming to and end.Saudi arabi acknowledges this and it cant pump it out quick enough because it knows whats comming. Heres a quote from the kingdom. "Thirty years from now there will be a huge amount of oil – and no buyers. Oil will be left in the ground. The Stone Age came to an end, not because we had a lack of stones, and the oil age will come to an end not because we have a lack of oil.”

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By *oi_LucyCouple over a year ago

Barbados

Having owned several land rovers I'd have gone with welding over archery

Well, exactly... I thought welding was an implicit skill in 'how to maintain and fix a series II Land Rover'

-Matt

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By *LCCCouple over a year ago

Cambridge

"The age of oil is comming to and end.Saudi arabi acknowledges this and it cant pump it out quick enough because it knows whats comming. Heres a quote from the kingdom. "Thirty years from now there will be a huge amount of oil – and no buyers. Oil will be left in the ground. The Stone Age came to an end, not because we had a lack of stones, and the oil age will come to an end not because we have a lack of oil.”"

If you think the middle east is bad now, wait until either the oil has run out, or we are no longer dependent on it. Then it will really be fucked.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Cant comment on your energy facts, but two things your are wrong on are not all fertilisers are made from natural gas and not all pesticides are made from oil,

Yes technically not "ALL" of them are but the vast vast vast vast majority are.

I couldn't answer for your friend, I can however tell you that for 120 years we've drilled the entire planet looking for oil, in 50 years we've had three finds of note, that's Alaskan north slope, Mexican gulf and north sea.

Two of them were under water, alot of water and the other is in the remote wilderness..... The capex of the oil industry is about 100 billion dollars a year and has been for decades, they spend this money looking for future supplies, in 50 years they've found three finds of notable size, every other field was found 80 years plus ago.

Royal Dutch shell actually got fined massively only about 5 years ago for "exaggerating" they're reserves.

So your friends could have found something new and massive, it's just unlikely by the evidence

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The age of oil is comming to and end.Saudi arabi acknowledges this and it cant pump it out quick enough because it knows whats comming. Heres a quote from the kingdom. "Thirty years from now there will be a huge amount of oil – and no buyers. Oil will be left in the ground. The Stone Age came to an end, not because we had a lack of stones, and the oil age will come to an end not because we have a lack of oil.”

If you think the middle east is bad now, wait until either the oil has run out, or we are no longer dependent on it. Then it will really be fucked."

In a world where a producer sees the end of its market on the horizon, then every barrel sold at a profit is more valuable than a barrel that will never be sold. Current Saudi oil minister Ali al-Naimi had this to say about production cuts in late December: “it is not in the interest of OPEC to cut their production whatever the price is,” adding that even if prices fell to $20 “it is irrelevant.” Implied, if not explicitly stated, is that Saudi Arabia wants its oil out of the ground, regardless of how thin its profit margin per barrel becomes.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The world relies on economic growth, every year energy consumption goes up to provide this growth, you don't run out of oil, you just run out of finding more than you had... No more growth!.

We've filled in for over ten years now with unconventional oil, the rush to renewables isn't what you think it is, it's just about another stop gap in filling the energy shortage from conventional oil, nobody in they're right mind thinks we're transferring from hydro carbons to electricals from renewables, not with our current way of life anyhow, it's just not possible.

Technology never comes to your rescue all it ever does is take you one step further down the road!... It doesn't solve it, it delays it.

Every time you invent something you bring about another problem you didn't have and now you have to invent something to solve that problem, it's the complexity treadmill.

It makes me chuckle when I hear people saying we've got 300 years of oil or ten thousand years of nuclear... Have we really?.

I cannot think for the life of me why were having all these God damn oil wars... If there's oil everywhere, why dig up half of Canada for tar sands when there's oil everywhere?.... Why spend hundreds of billions on a far off technology like fusion when there's a thousand years of fission available?.

It would be capitalisms dream to have oil at 1 dollar a barrel and petrol at 5p a litre, every conglomerates Xmas all come at once..... There's a price where oil becomes worthless, it's about 250 dollars a barrel, after that, well people just can't afford it, so that 250 dollars has a finite point of how much energy you can use extracting it, it's called in the business EROEI or energy returned on energy invested... In the old days conventional oil had great EROEI for every 1 barrel of oil you invested in you got 40 barrels out, it's now about 1-12 /1-25(depending on location).

Solar is about 1-2 maybe 1-3.

Wind is quite good at 1-8 ish

Fracked oil is about 1-2!!!(yes .. It's not going to save you, despite the headlines).

Nuclear is about 1-10 when you take in decommissioning.

Big stories rarely make big headlines and somewhere around 2002 saw conventional oil plateau for the first time in 120 years!

Like I said before crop yields have been declining for a decade while population grows at 2% ,2% remember that means we double in 35 years! 7.5 billon to 15 billion!.

Has anybody thought about this in they're forecast for future growth?.... I'm no expert

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By *ubble troubleCouple over a year ago

Manchester

Of course we can be completely self-sufficient.

A diet of Greggs, pork scratchings and Tizer will produce a new super-race of Brits. Average life expectancy will be a patriotic 37 years, thus massively easing the burden on our NHS caused by old age (although with the extra £350 million it gets every week it won't really need any help)

We will also become self-sufficient in fuel once all our British-made cars are converted to run on the harvesting of puss-laden zits this patriotic diet produces.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"They grow tea in Devon!.

Not much I'll admit but you'd be surprised what can be grown here, figs apricots nectarines olives kiwis.

The question is a bit misleading, we could just about grow enough calories to feed everybody here, it's really a question of options for choice.

Commercially grown fruit is not a patch on home grown freshly picked, you just can't store the taste

But do they grow a quantity large enough to sustain the whole country potentially without supplement from overseas?

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By *andS66Couple over a year ago

Derby

"I personally know Jon who runs the Tregothnan Estate in Cornwall, he is the foremost tea producer in the UK, we met at a food trade show in 2012 in Exeter called 'The Source', where he was looking for distributors and wholesalers.

He isn't producing everyday breakfast teas, he only produces and blends specialist teas like Earl Grey and Fruit teas.

Jons teas can be found mainly in Harrods and Fortnum & Mason.....that's the reality.

The reason?........he couldn't possibly compete with African or Indian tea growers in the every day market.

I think people need to wake up to a bit of reality.....

This utopian world where Britain produces al of the food and drink consumed here will never be realised, it's all a deluded dream."

And the first time I drank their tea was from a little tea shop on the walls of Chester.... And at the same price as all of their other teas.

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By *mmabluTV/TS over a year ago

upton wirral

You are living in la la land.....

"
I prefer British food so cook myself at home,I go out for meals because I am invited but really prefer the good old fashioned food I was brought up on.

Tonight was chicken casserole cooked with fresh chickn and fresh vegatables the juice will make fine soup tomorrow all ingredients where British although I did have a banana afterwards and the wine was from chile

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By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

He isn't producing everyday breakfast teas, he only produces and blends specialist teas like Earl Grey and Fruit teas.

Jons teas can be found mainly in Harrods and Fortnum & Mason.....that's the reality.

The reason?........he couldn't possibly compete with African or Indian tea growers in the every day market.

I think people need to wake up to a bit of reality.....

This utopian world where Britain produces al of the food and drink consumed here will never be realised, it's all a deluded dream.

And the first time I drank their tea was from a little tea shop on the walls of Chester.... And at the same price as all of their other teas."

A fucking safety pin would cost a fortune from Harrods so I'm not surprised they charge a fortune for tea. People who shop there have more money than sense.

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By *anes HubbyCouple over a year ago

Babbacombe Torquay

He isn't producing everyday breakfast teas, he only produces and blends specialist teas like Earl Grey and Fruit teas.

Jons teas can be found mainly in Harrods and Fortnum & Mason.....that's the reality.

The reason?........he couldn't possibly compete with African or Indian tea growers in the every day market.

I think people need to wake up to a bit of reality.....

This utopian world where Britain produces al of the food and drink consumed here will never be realised, it's all a deluded dream.

And the first time I drank their tea was from a little tea shop on the walls of Chester.... And at the same price as all of their other teas."

You are dreaming.....

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By *anes HubbyCouple over a year ago

Babbacombe Torquay

He isn't producing everyday breakfast teas, he only produces and blends specialist teas like Earl Grey and Fruit teas.

Jons teas can be found mainly in Harrods and Fortnum & Mason.....that's the reality.

The reason?........he couldn't possibly compete with African or Indian tea growers in the every day market.

I think people need to wake up to a bit of reality.....

This utopian world where Britain produces al of the food and drink consumed here will never be realised, it's all a deluded dream.

And the first time I drank their tea was from a little tea shop on the walls of Chester.... And at the same price as all of their other teas.

A fucking safety pin would cost a fortune from Harrods so I'm not surprised they charge a fortune for tea. People who shop there have more money than sense. "

The wholesale price of their teas imeans you will never find it in mainstream supermarkets, I believe Waitrose trialled it for a few months but it never worked.

Tiny production compared to imported tea, less than 20 acres farmed in 2015.....

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By *anes HubbyCouple over a year ago

Babbacombe Torquay

"They grow tea in Devon!.

Not much I'll admit but you'd be surprised what can be grown here, figs apricots nectarines olives kiwis.

The question is a bit misleading, we could just about grow enough calories to feed everybody here, it's really a question of options for choice.

Commercially grown fruit is not a patch on home grown freshly picked, you just can't store the taste

But do they grow a quantity large enough to sustain the whole country potentially without supplement from overseas?"

Absolutely not.....and Living wage means we can NEVER compete with foreign growers.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"They grow tea in Devon!.

Not much I'll admit but you'd be surprised what can be grown here, figs apricots nectarines olives kiwis.

The question is a bit misleading, we could just about grow enough calories to feed everybody here, it's really a question of options for choice.

Commercially grown fruit is not a patch on home grown freshly picked, you just can't store the taste

But do they grow a quantity large enough to sustain the whole country potentially without supplement from overseas?"
.

The original question is misleading and really I'm pointing out we can grow stuff that doesn't naturally grow here is still misleading.

Sure we could theoretically feed 60 millionish from our arable land just at a pinch, I mean you use dead people for compost and restrict eating habits to a minimum, yeah you could self sustain!.

The question you need to ask is, if we're not self sustaining who is?.... If your buying from them, your just taking food out of their mouths because of price, you can make it that they can't afford it and you can despite them growing it.... The world basically lives on four main crops, maize, wheat, rice and soya... They're grown in bulk inland in half a dozen locations on the whole, Russia, America, central Asia.

There probably the three worse places affected by climate change, the crops are highly susceptible to small changes in local weather variations.... It doesn't take that much to see a 50% failure rate.... China already has a massive problem with water supplies, the us and Russia has seen devastating droughts and rain.

This notion that you can just buy it from abroad is really just a recent notion in human history.

What do you think Russia will say when they don't over produce grain or the USA when they don't over produce wheat or corn.

The only people who are unhinged are the ones that presume the next 40 years will be the same as the last 40 years because technology will find a way?

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By *oi_LucyCouple over a year ago

Barbados

OK then....

So we've established we can't realistically become totally self sufficient in:

- arms manufacturing

- food production

- energy production

So... who's going to suggest the next stupid suggestion? Or shall we just stop this nonsense and just accept that we are a part of a global economy?

-Matt

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"OK then....

So we've established we can't realistically become totally self sufficient in:

- arms manufacturing

- food production

- energy production

So... who's going to suggest the next stupid suggestion? Or shall we just stop this nonsense and just accept that we are a part of a global economy?

-Matt"
.

Oh it's been a global empire for 30 or 40 years....I really don't know where people have been living to have missed that point.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Solving the first law of thermodynamics is not an easy problem to crack.

Fossil fuels or to be more accurate hydro carbons did that for the last 300 years.... You get more energy out than you put in!... We've been living on the dying corpses of every living thing the world's produced, tightly bound up in a neat bundle that's easily transportable and readily useable.... Finding a replacement is not going to be easy.... Even for technology

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By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

"Solving the first law of thermodynamics is not an easy problem to crack.

We have quantum computers now, it's scientific fact, Google the D-wave computer if you want to look it up. Its the computer which controls the large hadron collider at Cern on the border of France and Switzerland where they found the higgs boson (or more commonly known as the god particle). The D-wave computers have not been around long but it's considered to be on the same level as splitting the atom in scientific breakthroughs and they have been doubling in computing power over the last 10 years or so. These quantum computers use a technique called quantum tunnelling to solve problems, again look it up if you don't understand it. On an evolutionary scale now consider our most conventional super computer as an old car from the 1920's, now with the advent of quantum computers they would be like a super sonic jet compared to the 1920's car. The computing power is almost incomprehensible. What would take our conventional super computers 50 years to solve a highly complex problem the most advanced D-wave computer could solve the same problem in as little as 10 minutes using quantum tunneling techniques.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I'd also just like to add this is just an interesting conversation between adults.

I don't wanna "save" any of you or change your "lifestyle" habits, that bit left me years ago

But I like pointing out that factually as a species... Were screwed!....I say that with only a small amount of glee

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Solving the first law of thermodynamics is not an easy problem to crack.

Ha.... Who's gonna save you from the terminators?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I think it was Stephen hawking who said AI is the most dangerous thing facing human society in the future!.

Me I'm a luddite

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Skipped the whole thread but what an excellent unexpected development.

The entire UK moving to a healthy environmentally friendly agrarian lifestyle.

Curry will have to be knocked off the podium of national dish

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By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

"I think it was Stephen hawking who said AI is the most dangerous thing facing human society in the future!.

Me I'm a luddite

The D-wave computers could solve The first law of thermodynamics problem and the nuclear fusion/fission problem, but they could also become self aware artificially intelligent and decide to kill us all, so Stephen Hawking I'd say is not far off. Stephen Hawking also warned about what they are doing at cern where the large hadron collider is, they keep increasing the power output and increasing the speed of the particle collisions it could have disastrous consequences for all of us.

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By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

"Skipped the whole thread but what an excellent unexpected development.

The entire UK moving to a healthy environmentally friendly agrarian lifestyle.

Curry will have to be knocked off the podium of national dish "

The NHS might save a few bob on obesity related illnesses too.

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By *andS66Couple over a year ago

Derby

He isn't producing everyday breakfast teas, he only produces and blends specialist teas like Earl Grey and Fruit teas.

Jons teas can be found mainly in Harrods and Fortnum & Mason.....that's the reality.

The reason?........he couldn't possibly compete with African or Indian tea growers in the every day market.

I think people need to wake up to a bit of reality.....

This utopian world where Britain produces al of the food and drink consumed here will never be realised, it's all a deluded dream.

And the first time I drank their tea was from a little tea shop on the walls of Chester.... And at the same price as all of their other teas.

You are dreaming....."

A place called Tea on The Wall. We were there in September.

So no, not dreaming.

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By *iamondjoeMan over a year ago

Glastonbury

Autarky

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autarky#Modern_examples

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By *ubble troubleCouple over a year ago

Manchester

I look forward to seeing patriotic shire horses on the daily commute instead of treacherous BMWs, VWs and Renaults.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I look forward to seeing patriotic shire horses on the daily commute instead of treacherous BMWs, VWs and Renaults. "

around most cities they would be faster these days

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Why not look at been as self sufficient as possible ?

I've already dealt with defence on another thread .

Did you ?

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Why not look at been as self sufficient as possible ?

I've already dealt with defence on another thread .

Did you ?

I tried

CLCC defence cuts thread !

Basically I want us to make our own Arms no expense Spared , to Maximum Quality .

Obviously would take some time

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Skipped the whole thread but what an excellent unexpected development.

The entire UK moving to a healthy environmentally friendly agrarian lifestyle.

Curry will have to be knocked off the podium of national dish

The NHS might save a few bob on obesity related illnesses too.

The fatty riots of 2018 when junk food is in short supply will cause a lot of destruction though :p

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By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

"I look forward to seeing patriotic shire horses on the daily commute instead of treacherous BMWs, VWs and Renaults.

around most cities they would be faster these days"

More environmentally friendly too.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Why not look at been as self sufficient as possible ?

I've already dealt with defence on another thread .

Did you ?

I tried

CLCC defence cuts thread !

Basically I want us to make our own Arms no expense Spared , to Maximum Quality .

Obviously would take some time

Yeah i know, i was being sarcastic

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By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

"Ok, so at the moment about 30% of the food in this country gets thrown away or wasted so if we can grow 66% of our needs and eat it all we're sorted

Sounds good

Why don't more people look at the glass half full not half empty

It's become increasingly clear to me on this forum not only on this thread but on many threads that Brexiters are optimists with a 'can do' attitude, while Remainers are pessimists with a 'can't do' attitude. Maybe that's why Brexit won against all the odds because we had a can do attitude and we believed we could win.

Funny how many Remainers (the pessimists) also seemed to support Hillary Clinton in the US election, while many Brexiters (optimists) supported Trump, and again against almost seemingly insurmountable odds Trump won.

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By *oi_LucyCouple over a year ago

Barbados

"Ok, so at the moment about 30% of the food in this country gets thrown away or wasted so if we can grow 66% of our needs and eat it all we're sorted

Sounds good

Why don't more people look at the glass half full not half empty

And in both the case of Brexit and Trump, not only were neither expected to win... but the people behind both didn't want to actually win. In both cases the idea was to 'stick it to the establishment' in some way and give those 'elites' a scare. But in both cases is backfired and they whipped up the electorate with such a powerful cocktail of lies and post-truth reasoning. Combined with the opposition in both cases, admittedly, being completely useless in arguing against this new approach (You can't reason with someone who doesn't believe in reason. You can't convince someone with facts if they don't believe facts exist).

Now on both sides we are faced with a situation where those that 'won' have no idea what they are doing, and are completely unprepared and unsuitable for the role they have now landed themselves in.

It really will be interesting to see how long they can keep the charade going before the electorate realise that it is all just bluster and make-believe.

-Matt

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By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

"Ok, so at the moment about 30% of the food in this country gets thrown away or wasted so if we can grow 66% of our needs and eat it all we're sorted

Sounds good

Why don't more people look at the glass half full not half empty

Now on both sides we are faced with a situation where those that 'won' have no idea what they are doing, and are completely unprepared and unsuitable for the role they have now landed themselves in.

It really will be interesting to see how long they can keep the charade going before the electorate realise that it is all just bluster and make-believe.

-Matt"

Showing your pessimism yet again there that everything will fail.

I joined Vote Leave as a volunteer, I believed we could win and I wanted Brexit to win and we did win. I also think Brexit will be a great success for the UK and Trump will be a great President for the USA.

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By *tillup4funMan over a year ago

Wakefield

"Ok, so at the moment about 30% of the food in this country gets thrown away or wasted so if we can grow 66% of our needs and eat it all we're sorted

Sounds good

Why don't more people look at the glass half full not half empty

Now on both sides we are faced with a situation where those that 'won' have no idea what they are doing, and are completely unprepared and unsuitable for the role they have now landed themselves in.

It really will be interesting to see how long they can keep the charade going before the electorate realise that it is all just bluster and make-believe.

-Matt"

Ok so what happens then when the electorate realise it is all bluster as you put it?

You seem to have a very low opinion of the electorate in both the UK and the US.

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By *oi_LucyCouple over a year ago

Barbados

"Ok so what happens then when the electorate realise it is all bluster as you put it?

You seem to have a very low opinion of the electorate in both the UK and the US.

I don't know that will happen, hence why it will be interesting to see where it goes. The cynic in me says that there will just be further excuses for it, or some other scapegoat will be found.

I do have a very low opinion of the electorate. I think many of them have been grossly mislead by the media and politicians on a wide range of subjects. You can see plenty of polls out there that show that the perception of many of the issues bears little resemblance to the reality. That is a perception that has been heavily influenced by politicians and the media.

I mean, even two days ago, Gove was STILL standing by the £350M figure on the radio. Despite it being debunked and even many of the politicians distancing themselves from the figure as soon at the votes were in.

No soon had Trump been elected, he was backing down from his wall idea. Despite saying on the campaign trail that it would be a physical high strong wall, he already admitted that parts of it might be a fence or be virtual. Despite talking about 'draining the swamp' he has filled his cabinet with billionaires, climate change deniers and corporate lobbyists.

I'm going to be in California at the time he is sworn in... it will be interesting to see the reaction there, as California was in the majority against Trump. I was over there actually when the Brexit vote happened and the reaction from most people was "But, of course you are not going to vote to leave, right? Why the hell would you do that?".

Then again, with all the earthquakes there on Wednesday, hopefully the 'big one' won't hit.

-Matt

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By *tillup4funMan over a year ago

Wakefield

"Ok so what happens then when the electorate realise it is all bluster as you put it?

You seem to have a very low opinion of the electorate in both the UK and the US.

I don't know that will happen, hence why it will be interesting to see where it goes. The cynic in me says that there will just be further excuses for it, or some other scapegoat will be found.

Then again, with all the earthquakes there on Wednesday, hopefully the 'big one' won't hit.

-Matt"

But surely it should be the politicians you have a low opinion of not the electorate there the ones spouting the cabbage.

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By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

Then again, with all the earthquakes there on Wednesday, hopefully the 'big one' won't hit.

-Matt"

Lol, you really think Trump cares about the reaction of Californians?

Would be no different to the reaction someone like Nigel Farage would get in a place like Richmond, and I suspect Farage couldn't care less either.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Then again, with all the earthquakes there on Wednesday, hopefully the 'big one' won't hit.

-Matt

Lol, you really think Trump cares about the reaction of Californians?

Would be no different to the reaction someone like Nigel Farage would get in a place like Richmond, and I suspect Farage couldn't care less either.

Sounds like he'll be an awesome president then, if he doesn't give a fuck about millions and millions of the citizens he's being sworn in to lead. Wasn't one of the Brexiteers complaints that politicians didn't care about them and their ilk? Inverse snobbery at its finest, well done.

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By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

Then again, with all the earthquakes there on Wednesday, hopefully the 'big one' won't hit.

-Matt

Lol, you really think Trump cares about the reaction of Californians?

Would be no different to the reaction someone like Nigel Farage would get in a place like Richmond, and I suspect Farage couldn't care less either.

It doesn't matter what Trump does for Clinton supporters, he could give them all a million dollars each and they'd still hate him. What do you expect him to do?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Then again, with all the earthquakes there on Wednesday, hopefully the 'big one' won't hit.

-Matt

Lol, you really think Trump cares about the reaction of Californians?

Would be no different to the reaction someone like Nigel Farage would get in a place like Richmond, and I suspect Farage couldn't care less either.

It doesn't matter what Trump does for Clinton supporters, he could give them all a million dollars each and they'd still hate him. What do you expect him to do? "

The question was about Californians. I know you like to reduce everything to "them" and "us" but it's not always that simple. Not everyone who doesn't support Trump is a Clinton supporter.

I'd expect him to serve in the interests of the American population, not just those who voted for him. It's what he will be sworn in to do.

Just like I expect the politicians negotiating Brexit to act in the interests of the British population not just the most vocal and rabid amongst us.

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By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

Then again, with all the earthquakes there on Wednesday, hopefully the 'big one' won't hit.

-Matt

Lol, you really think Trump cares about the reaction of Californians?

Would be no different to the reaction someone like Nigel Farage would get in a place like Richmond, and I suspect Farage couldn't care less either.

It doesn't matter what Trump does for Clinton supporters, he could give them all a million dollars each and they'd still hate him. What do you expect him to do?

The question was about Californians. I know you like to reduce everything to "them" and "us" but it's not always that simple. Not everyone who doesn't support Trump is a Clinton supporter.

I'd expect him to serve in the interests of the American population, not just those who voted for him. It's what he will be sworn in to do.

Just like I expect the politicians negotiating Brexit to act in the interests of the British population not just the most vocal and rabid amongst us."

It was Lucy Poi who raised the reaction of Californians on the thread not me. If Hillary Clinton had won and she was inaugurated in the rust belt she would have received a negative reaction from citizens there.

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By *oi_LucyCouple over a year ago

Barbados

" It doesn't matter what Trump does for Clinton supporters, he could give them all a million dollars each and they'd still hate him. What do you expect him to do? "

You mean, if you gave some people money, they'd still maintain their views on someone politically? I'd call that 'integrity'.

Or do you think that bribing voters is what should happen?

And when you say Trump shouldn't care about Californians... Is that like EU bureaucrats shouldn't listen to the UK? Purely on economic terms, California represents about 15% of the USA GDP alone.

-Matt

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Then again, with all the earthquakes there on Wednesday, hopefully the 'big one' won't hit.

-Matt

Lol, you really think Trump cares about the reaction of Californians?

Would be no different to the reaction someone like Nigel Farage would get in a place like Richmond, and I suspect Farage couldn't care less either.

It doesn't matter what Trump does for Clinton supporters, he could give them all a million dollars each and they'd still hate him. What do you expect him to do?

The question was about Californians. I know you like to reduce everything to "them" and "us" but it's not always that simple. Not everyone who doesn't support Trump is a Clinton supporter.

I'd expect him to serve in the interests of the American population, not just those who voted for him. It's what he will be sworn in to do.

Just like I expect the politicians negotiating Brexit to act in the interests of the British population not just the most vocal and rabid amongst us.

And you said "Lol, you really think Trump cares about the reaction of Californians?" - my reply was to that. If he doesn't care about the reaction of millions upon millions of American citizens he will be an abysmal president. Clinton may well have received a negative reaction from citizens in the rust belt but if I said "Lol, you really think Clinton cares about the reaction of Detroit (for example)" then you'd be all over it with shrieks about out of touch elites not caring about hard working people.

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By *oi_LucyCouple over a year ago

Barbados

" It was Lucy Poi who raised the reaction of Californians on the thread not me. If Hillary Clinton had won and she was inaugurated in the rust belt she would have received a negative reaction from citizens there. "

I would love to experience the reaction of the rust-belt citizens on Hilary winning. But she didn't. And I'm not going to the rust belt. I'm going to California. Sorry.

-Matt

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By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

I would love to experience the reaction of the rust-belt citizens on Hilary winning. But she didn't. And I'm not going to the rust belt. I'm going to California. Sorry.

-Matt"

How convenient for you. Still doesn't change the fact people in the rust belt feel as negative about Clinton as those in Californian feel about Trump.

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By *oi_LucyCouple over a year ago

Barbados

I would love to experience the reaction of the rust-belt citizens on Hilary winning. But she didn't. And I'm not going to the rust belt. I'm going to California. Sorry.

-Matt

How convenient for you. Still doesn't change the fact people in the rust belt feel as negative about Clinton as those in Californian feel about Trump. "

Convenient? wtf is up with you?!

Yes, of course it is convenient. I'm am going to visit my boss' office in LA. If I went to the rust belt it would be very fucking in-convenient as it is then a long fucking walk to LA.

*rolls eyes*

-Matt

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By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

Then again, with all the earthquakes there on Wednesday, hopefully the 'big one' won't hit.

-Matt

Lol, you really think Trump cares about the reaction of Californians?

Would be no different to the reaction someone like Nigel Farage would get in a place like Richmond, and I suspect Farage couldn't care less either.

It doesn't matter what Trump does for Clinton supporters, he could give them all a million dollars each and they'd still hate him. What do you expect him to do?

The question was about Californians. I know you like to reduce everything to "them" and "us" but it's not always that simple. Not everyone who doesn't support Trump is a Clinton supporter.

I'd expect him to serve in the interests of the American population, not just those who voted for him. It's what he will be sworn in to do.

Just like I expect the politicians negotiating Brexit to act in the interests of the British population not just the most vocal and rabid amongst us.

And then you went on to say, " you like to reduce everything to 'them' and 'us'".

Only it wasn't me who did that, it was Lucy Poi who brought Californians against Trump into it.

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By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

I would love to experience the reaction of the rust-belt citizens on Hilary winning. But she didn't. And I'm not going to the rust belt. I'm going to California. Sorry.

-Matt

How convenient for you. Still doesn't change the fact people in the rust belt feel as negative about Clinton as those in Californian feel about Trump.

Convenient? wtf is up with you?!

Yes, of course it is convenient. I'm am going to visit my boss' office in LA. If I went to the rust belt it would be very fucking in-convenient as it is then a long fucking walk to LA.

*rolls eyes*

-Matt"

Tip for you, there is an emoticon for *rolls eyes* here it is.

Maybe that would be more convenient for you in future too.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Then again, with all the earthquakes there on Wednesday, hopefully the 'big one' won't hit.

-Matt

Lol, you really think Trump cares about the reaction of Californians?

Would be no different to the reaction someone like Nigel Farage would get in a place like Richmond, and I suspect Farage couldn't care less either.

It doesn't matter what Trump does for Clinton supporters, he could give them all a million dollars each and they'd still hate him. What do you expect him to do?

The question was about Californians. I know you like to reduce everything to "them" and "us" but it's not always that simple. Not everyone who doesn't support Trump is a Clinton supporter.

I'd expect him to serve in the interests of the American population, not just those who voted for him. It's what he will be sworn in to do.

Just like I expect the politicians negotiating Brexit to act in the interests of the British population not just the most vocal and rabid amongst us.

And then you went on to say, " you like to reduce everything to 'them' and 'us'".

Only it wasn't me who did that, it was Lucy Poi who brought Californians against Trump into it. "

You do like to reduce everything to brexiteers (noble, glorious mouthpieces of Farage) and remoaners (whingeing negative mouthpieces of the elite - except for the specific millionaires and commodities traders you've decided you agree with). I don't know who Lucy Poi is but I saw Poi-Lucy make an observation about California and then you used it as an excuse to make a meaningless point about how certain areas didn't vote for Clinton. No shit, Sherlock.

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By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

WooRuby, you are correct in your assessment of Brexiters and Remainers there. I assume everyone knows who I am referring to if I say WooRuby.

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