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Council Tax and Social care
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Here the start of it...so councils will be allowed to increase tax for 2 years for social care....forgive me if im wrong but isn't that what we all pay our NI contributions for ! |
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"Here the start of it...so councils will be allowed to increase tax for 2 years for social care....forgive me if im wrong but isn't that what we all pay our NI contributions for !"
The start of what? |
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"Here the start of it...so councils will be allowed to increase tax for 2 years for social care....forgive me if im wrong but isn't that what we all pay our NI contributions for !"
No...NI was originally for the NHS and pensions I believe although as everyone knows there's a big budget gap. Social care in mainly down to people living longer and needing care. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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They are supposed to be able to increase council tax and then drop it back down after a couple of years so that we can recoup the xtra that has been charged.
Can you see that happening? Since when have they ever given us anything back ? It's always gone up never down  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Isn't this merely an example of the current UK government admitting that austerity isn't working, but passing the costs on to the hard-working families (in England) whom they claim to champion? |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"The UK gives away over 12,000,000,000 a year to other countries but cannot take care of our own old and infermed "
Trust me, you would much rather be old in this country than in the countries that receive money from DfID |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The UK gives away over 12,000,000,000 a year to other countries but cannot take care of our own old and infermed
Trust me, you would much rather be old in this country than in the countries that receive money from DfID "
In fairness, he didn't say anything about that. Just pointed out that the UK government does export a lot of money abroad. I appreciate the reasons we do so, but can also appreciate how this annoys people. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If your savings are over about £23.250 you will be a self funder (paying for it yourself).
Social care is not free and the majority of this care is provided by private regulated agencies."
In practice, everyone is a self funder when it comes to care of the elderly. My grandmother had no way near that amount in savings, but had to give up all her pensions to pay and was left with 32.50 a week 'spending money.' This is in Wales, not sure if it the same elsewhere? |
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"If your savings are over about £23.250 you will be a self funder (paying for it yourself).
Social care is not free and the majority of this care is provided by private regulated agencies.
In practice, everyone is a self funder when it comes to care of the elderly. My grandmother had no way near that amount in savings, but had to give up all her pensions to pay and was left with 32.50 a week 'spending money.' This is in Wales, not sure if it the same elsewhere? "
Yes...if you have to go into a care home and are not a self funder - paying the whole amount, you make a contribution. That is because if you move into care home your expenses such as rent and bills are part of the fees, therefore your pension etc goes towards those fees. I am not saying it's right but, homes are expensive to run. |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"its up to the goverment to fund it not me "
Why?
They should fund those that need it,but the wealthy should pay if they have enough.Do not get me wrong I think the threshold for care should maybe be around £100,000 so most people will still be payed for.
I also feel that why should whealthy people get heating help?Blank sheet welfare is to costly and takes money from where it is needed. |
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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago
bournemouth |
"its up to the goverment to fund it not me Why?
They should fund those that need it,but the wealthy should pay if they have enough.Do not get me wrong I think the threshold for care should maybe be around £100,000 so most people will still be payed for.
I also feel that why should whealthy people get heating help?Blank sheet welfare is to costly and takes money from where it is needed."
But what about those who have just pissed it up against the wall as opposed to those that earnt the same and saved up, why should the careful one be hit? |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"its up to the goverment to fund it not me Why?
They should fund those that need it,but the wealthy should pay if they have enough.Do not get me wrong I think the threshold for care should maybe be around £100,000 so most people will still be payed for.
I also feel that why should whealthy people get heating help?Blank sheet welfare is to costly and takes money from where it is needed.
But what about those who have just pissed it up against the wall as opposed to those that earnt the same and saved up, why should the careful one be hit? "
I am talking about the many that have not earned enough to save enough although there are some that justify your point. |
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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago
bournemouth |
"its up to the goverment to fund it not me Why?
They should fund those that need it,but the wealthy should pay if they have enough.Do not get me wrong I think the threshold for care should maybe be around £100,000 so most people will still be payed for.
I also feel that why should whealthy people get heating help?Blank sheet welfare is to costly and takes money from where it is needed.
But what about those who have just pissed it up against the wall as opposed to those that earnt the same and saved up, why should the careful one be hit? I am talking about the many that have not earned enough to save enough although there are some that justify your point."
We need an open honest debate about helth care from cradle to grave without the political grandstanding, it cant carry on as it is |
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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago
Hereford |
I'm sure that if we made sure that all those who were supposed to pay corporation tax, actually paid what they should, we'd have loads more money for stuff like this.
In some countries, Tax avoidance (ie, using legal means to exploit apparent "loopholes", as opposed to "evasion") is illegal.... |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"with an ageing population this is a far bigger concern than any brexit worries, the cost is going to go through the roof when the baby boomers start getting beyond itVery true"
But Brexit, if it results in less immigration will negatively impact on it. You will reduce the number and ratio of working people to retired people. The two are inextricably linked. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The UK gives away over 12,000,000,000 a year to other countries but cannot take care of our own old and infermed
Trust me, you would much rather be old in this country than in the countries that receive money from DfID "
I have seen it first hand mate spent quite a bit of time in the Philippines and surounding Areas not just the cities but the provinces as well and do know where you are coming from  |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
The World evolves. People are living longer due to a multitude of reasons. Attitudes are changing.
Did we have all these care homes 30 years ago? The elderly either died younger or were looked after by relatives.
We need a sensible debate on what we will need now, in 5 years time, in 20 years time. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"with an ageing population this is a far bigger concern than any brexit worries, the cost is going to go through the roof when the baby boomers start getting beyond itVery true
But Brexit, if it results in less immigration will negatively impact on it. You will reduce the number and ratio of working people to retired people. The two are inextricably linked."
yes but where does that end? That is not the answer its the economics of the madhouse |
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"Isn't this merely an example of the current UK government admitting that austerity isn't working, but passing the costs on to the hard-working families (in England) whom they claim to champion? "
The underlying issue is that public sector pensions are too generous are we are all having to pay extra taxes to fund these .
Most people in the private sector could not afford the generous final salary schemes available in the public sector . |
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"I'm sure that if we made sure that all those who were supposed to pay corporation tax, actually paid what they should, we'd have loads more money for stuff like this.
In some countries, Tax avoidance (ie, using legal means to exploit apparent "loopholes", as opposed to "evasion") is illegal...."
Or we migbt just drive these companies away and lead to both the loss of jobs and all the NI contributions which these companies currently pay. |
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"with an ageing population this is a far bigger concern than any brexit worries, the cost is going to go through the roof when the baby boomers start getting beyond itVery true
But Brexit, if it results in less immigration will negatively impact on it. You will reduce the number and ratio of working people to retired people. The two are inextricably linked."
Does these not just conpound the problem as we would we importing lowly paid unskilled workers who themselves will become old .
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"its up to the goverment to fund it not me Why?
They should fund those that need it,but the wealthy should pay if they have enough.Do not get me wrong I think the threshold for care should maybe be around £100,000 so most people will still be payed for.
I also feel that why should whealthy people get heating help?Blank sheet welfare is to costly and takes money from where it is needed.
But what about those who have just pissed it up against the wall as opposed to those that earnt the same and saved up, why should the careful one be hit? I am talking about the many that have not earned enough to save enough although there are some that justify your point.
We need an open honest debate about helth care from cradle to grave without the political grandstanding, it cant carry on as it is "
Well said . A detailed review of public sector pensions would be a good start . |
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"Isn't this merely an example of the current UK government admitting that austerity isn't working, but passing the costs on to the hard-working families (in England) whom they claim to champion? The underlying issue is that public sector pensions are too generous are we are all having to pay extra taxes to fund these .
Most people in the private sector could not afford the generous final salary schemes available in the public sector ."
And, if I had worked for over 30yrs in the private sector I would have been paid more, had bonuses, not had to do continual professional development, I wouldn't have knackered my health. I am a nurse |
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"If your savings are over about £23.250 you will be a self funder (paying for it yourself).
Social care is not free and the majority of this care is provided by private regulated agencies.
In practice, everyone is a self funder when it comes to care of the elderly. My grandmother had no way near that amount in savings, but had to give up all her pensions to pay and was left with 32.50 a week 'spending money.' This is in Wales, not sure if it the same elsewhere? "
However as care home fees are between £600 and £1000 a week your grandmothers contribtion was small compared to anyone who had savings.
In these cases you have to pay the full amount yourself unless you have managed to purchase an insurance policy which would be incredibly expensive. |
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I can't see what the problem is, on average it's around 45 quid a year extra per household.. ffs people pay twice that per year buying a morning coffee or in shitty takeaways... this isn't just someone else's care this will eventually become your care and my care and anyone else who God forbids needs some form of social care at some point in their lives.. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Social care is not healthcare, people need to understand the difference. Healthcare at present is free, social care is means tested and should be a need not a want."
It is extremely difficult to get continuing health care (in a nursing home). CHC funding in Wales is the exception not the norm, even where some GPs believe patients should get it. Health Boards employ a myriad of people who vet the CHC applications prior to them going before a panel. My mother was denied CHC funding whilst in hospital this year, due to her being "well enough". The irony is, she passed away, in hospital 4 weeks after the panel had made that decision.
So, even though continuing health care should be free, in instances of elderly or very ill people who fail to 'pass the test', this may not be the case. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If your savings are over about £23.250 you will be a self funder (paying for it yourself).
Social care is not free and the majority of this care is provided by private regulated agencies.
In practice, everyone is a self funder when it comes to care of the elderly. My grandmother had no way near that amount in savings, but had to give up all her pensions to pay and was left with 32.50 a week 'spending money.' This is in Wales, not sure if it the same elsewhere? However as care home fees are between £600 and £1000 a week your grandmothers contribtion was small compared to anyone who had savings.
In these cases you have to pay the full amount yourself unless you have managed to purchase an insurance policy which would be incredibly expensive."
It may have been 'small' but at least she did contribute. Unfortunately, she never earned a great deal all through her life. Although employed continuously from age 14 til 65, raised a family of workers, tax payers etc.
As far as I am concerned, a working class pensioner with no savings foregoing their pensions to pay for their care is the same as a wealthy person doing the same.
I actually fucking hate the way you've written your reply.
People are people not what they have in their banks. And contributing is contributing. |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
Just reading this thread tells me what a big modern day problem this is,we need to give it serious thought and discussion but right now money is needed.
We will never solve the problem fully as medical science keeps us alive longer,maybe this is the cause I will say no more!!! |
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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago
Hereford |
"The UK gives away over 12,000,000,000 a year to other countries but cannot take care of our own old and infermed
Trust me, you would much rather be old in this country than in the countries that receive money from DfID
I have seen it first hand mate spent quite a bit of time in the Philippines and surounding Areas not just the cities but the provinces as well and do know where you are coming from "
Nevermind that. "Aid money" is our government buying a way in for British companies... |
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"Here the start of it...so councils will be allowed to increase tax for 2 years for social care....forgive me if im wrong but isn't that what we all pay our NI contributions for !"
No, NI is meant to be for health and unemployment benefit, not social services. Social Services are meant to be funded by local tax.
The reality is however that NI contributions are put into the same pot of money as any other tax and is not kept separately for either health of unemployment benefits.
The other reality is is that social care, along with most local government expenditure, has always been mostly funded out of general taxation, not local taxes.
With regards to this current proposal to allow local authorities to temporally raise council taxes to help fund their social services. As a short term measure to get round the immediate problem I'm not against it but longer term it's not workable. |
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"Isn't this merely an example of the current UK government admitting that austerity isn't working, but passing the costs on to the hard-working families (in England) whom they claim to champion? The underlying issue is that public sector pensions are too generous are we are all having to pay extra taxes to fund these .
Most people in the private sector could not afford the generous final salary schemes available in the public sector .
And, if I had worked for over 30yrs in the private sector I would have been paid more, had bonuses, not had to do continual professional development, I wouldn't have knackered my health. I am a nurse"
Actually, if you wanted to do well in the private sector, you would have had to do similar if you wanted to progress your career and ern more. |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
The Council Tax rises will only bring in a fraction, maybe a tenth, if what is needed.
And any rise will impact on.the poorest of Council Tax payers as well.
Politics needs to be put aside on this one. Get the best brains from all parties and agencies to come together, and let them come up with a credible and workable plan. |
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"The Council Tax rises will only bring in a fraction, maybe a tenth, if what is needed.
And any rise will impact on.the poorest of Council Tax payers as well.
Politics needs to be put aside on this one. Get the best brains from all parties and agencies to come together, and let them come up with a credible and workable plan."
I agree but something needs to done now and the temporary council tax increase can be done now. Whilst a better solution should be worked by a cross party approach we can't wait for that. I accepted your point about the council tax being less effective in councils where the need is probably greatest but at least it may help some. |
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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago
bournemouth |
"Isn't this merely an example of the current UK government admitting that austerity isn't working, but passing the costs on to the hard-working families (in England) whom they claim to champion? The underlying issue is that public sector pensions are too generous are we are all having to pay extra taxes to fund these .
Most people in the private sector could not afford the generous final salary schemes available in the public sector .
And, if I had worked for over 30yrs in the private sector I would have been paid more, had bonuses, not had to do continual professional development, I wouldn't have knackered my health. I am a nurse"
K has worked in the NHS all her working life,she is band 7 so gets well paid, doesnt get bonuses but then neither do millions of private sector workers,she could have taken her pension at 50 and it is a very very generous one and yes she does CPD but then so do many many others and unlike your courses the one I did yesterday cost me £225 and a days lost output, why is your health knackered? front line public service workers do a very worth while JOB buts thas what it is a JOB, the managers need sorting though,on that I am sure we agree  |
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"Isn't this merely an example of the current UK government admitting that austerity isn't working, but passing the costs on to the hard-working families (in England) whom they claim to champion? The underlying issue is that public sector pensions are too generous are we are all having to pay extra taxes to fund these .
Most people in the private sector could not afford the generous final salary schemes available in the public sector .
And, if I had worked for over 30yrs in the private sector I would have been paid more, had bonuses, not had to do continual professional development, I wouldn't have knackered my health. I am a nurse
K has worked in the NHS all her working life,she is band 7 so gets well paid, doesnt get bonuses but then neither do millions of private sector workers,she could have taken her pension at 50 and it is a very very generous one and yes she does CPD but then so do many many others and unlike your courses the one I did yesterday cost me £225 and a days lost output, why is your health knackered? front line public service workers do a very worth while JOB buts thas what it is a JOB, the managers need sorting though,on that I am sure we agree "
I am in the band 8 pay range - I am well paid compared to most other working women. For that I run three large teams, prescribe, completrd an MSc and work well over my hours as do many more. I am not complaining. My health has deteriorated in the last 6yrs, I believe due to long hours and stress. This resulted in a heart attack. I could have retired from nursing at 50 with a greatly reduced pension. New entrants to nursing will not be able to do this, there is a shortage of trained nurses, graduates and young people on the whole do not want to do such demanding jobs, which is why we are recruiting from the other EU countries and even further a field. Many jobs in health & social care continue to be relatively low paid and demanding.  |
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"with an ageing population this is a far bigger concern than any brexit worries, the cost is going to go through the roof when the baby boomers start getting beyond it"
And add in pension costs and we have a ticking time bomb about to go off . The generous public sector pension schemes are unsustainable in the long term but no government appears willing to address the issue. Final salary schemes are virtually a thing of the past in the private sector ..
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"with an ageing population this is a far bigger concern than any brexit worries, the cost is going to go through the roof when the baby boomers start getting beyond it And add in pension costs and we have a ticking time bomb about to go off . The generous public sector pension schemes are unsustainable in the long term but no government appears willing to address the issue. Final salary schemes are virtually a thing of the past in the private sector .."
I think you'll find final salary scheme's are a thing of the past in the public sector too other than for the oldest serving workers. |
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"Isn't this merely an example of the current UK government admitting that austerity isn't working, but passing the costs on to the hard-working families (in England) whom they claim to champion? "
No its an example of what happens when you have an aging population. |
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