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Labour will oppose triggering article 50
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"If the government don't guarantee access to the single market. Get in. At last some proper opposition from Mr Corbyn. "So not what the public voted for then | |||
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"If the government don't guarantee access to the single market. Get in. At last some proper opposition from Mr Corbyn. "The only way that the Government can guarantee access to the single market is by staying in the EU. It is down to 27 other countries what kind of deal we get and PM May can hold as many cards to her chest as she wants but the EU position will be to do what is best for the remaining 27 countries. Boris Johnson was always wrong when he said that we could be outside of the EU and paying £350,000,000 a week to the NHS and still be freely trading with the EU. Jeremy Corbyn is showing his own ignorance by making such statements. I have said all along that I don't believe that we will ultimately leave the EU because to leave will cause avoidable and unnecessary financial turmoil. As that financial crisis starts to unfold after the signing of A50, more and more people will question why we are still walking towards the fire. | |||
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"If the government don't guarantee access to the single market. Get in. At last some proper opposition from Mr Corbyn.
So not what the public voted for then "The living God and most Omnipotent supreme leader of the angry Brigades (Nige to his friends) has even told all of his sheep that the referendum was advisory. Even he knows that the people have only given Parliament a message that 17,000,000 of the population of 65,000,000 are upset/annoyed with foreigners (either coming here or making our laws). It is now down to Parliament to bring the country back together and move forwards in a conciliatory way that will inevitably involve compromises. We ought to have learned from history that narrow victories in legal, commercial and political disputes as well as in conflicts and war never end well unless there is conciliatory action at the end. To move forwards effectively the concerns and fears that caused the defeated opponent to engage in the conflict in the first place have to be addressed. | |||
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" Jeremy Corbyn is showing his own ignorance by making such statements. fire. " You think he is showing his ignorance? I think he is showing full appreciation and surprising political skill. Whatever the Brexiters now say about the Leave campaign being clear that voting Leave meant leaving the single market, they weren't. They tried to pretend we could have it all ways. And theoretically it is still possible. So Corbyn is saying if we get that he will back leaving. We all know the three Brexiters won't get it so he is effectively settling for remaining in the EU, but the Tories are caught by their own lies. Corbyn meanwhile is more or less being consistent with his 7/10 mark for the EU because there were some bad things he'd like to get out from but overall on balance more to keep us in. | |||
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"I think he is showing full appreciation and surprising political skill. " Why are you surprised? Is it because you have been believing what the papers and BBC say rather than reading his policies? | |||
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"I think he is showing full appreciation and surprising political skill. Why are you surprised? Is it because you have been believing what the papers and BBC say rather than reading his policies?" No. His policies are good on the whole and he has always been a good principled MP. He is not great at making life difficult for the government unless it's his own party in power though. He's missed quite a few opportunities to skewer this inept shower over the last year. | |||
"I suspect most labour mp's right now would expect to lose their seats, given the state of their party." The only division in the Labour party is between the members (who are the party) and the majority of the PLP and national executive committee of the labour party who seem to believe that we are their to serve them rather than they to implement the members will. It is fair to say that there is a deep and growing anger amongst party members about how the PLP and NEC have been acting and unless MPs and the NEC start implementing our will we will remove them. In fact it has already started and many MPs (mine included) now understand that any more attempts to undermine the party will will result in their deselection and expulsion from the party. "He is not great at making life difficult for the government unless it's his own party in power though. He's missed quite a few opportunities to skewer this inept shower over the last year. " Really? You must have been watching a different JC to me. Because the one I have been watching has quietly refused to participate in the and therefore give gravitas to the cheap playground bully-boy tactics displayed by most and especially caMoron at the dispatch box. He also refused to buy into the project fear tactics of the tory funded Remain campaign, as a result he obeyed a cardinal rule in combat (politics is a form of combat) and did not interrupt his adversary as he committed political suicide, he even sat quietly while caMoron made his "For pities sake Go Man, GO!" resignation speech. Thus allowing the government and tory party to continue its very real delusional meltdown that has led to a ruling that Ms May has to get parliamentary approval to trigger Article 50. At the same time this was going on he successfully used the same tactics to see off an internal coup by the PLP while increasing his mandate. Then out of nowhere after tory MPs go on record to say that they will vote against triggering Article 50 JC makes another very reasonable statement that changes Ms May and the governments position from extremely difficult to near impossible. Remembering he as managed all the above while under well orchestrated media black propaganda attack, I for one would describe what he has managed to do as spectacular. Either he has a deep understanding of Sun Tzu and its application to politics or of boxing and how to 'rope a dope'. One way or another I doubt that we will be hearing many more briefings against JC from within the PLP and I expect that he will be treated with a lot more respect in the house by Ms May and her chums from now on. | |||
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"If the government don't guarantee access to the single market. Get in. At last some proper opposition from Mr Corbyn. "Corbin would oppose us all having a free 50" TV with a free sky sports package, it's all that he knows how to do, oppose anything and everything | |||
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"Thats the end of the Labour party then. And good riddance" actually I thought exactly the same thing if this goes ahead its a shame to see the direction the Labour party have taken, they have went severely down hill since Ed Miliband got in and are continuing to spiral | |||
"If the government don't guarantee access to the single market. Get in. At last some proper opposition from Mr Corbyn.
So not what the public voted for then "Its still Brexit, the people voted for Brexit and Brexit mean Brexit remember  | |||
"If the government don't guarantee access to the single market. Get in. At last some proper opposition from Mr Corbyn.
So not what the public voted for then
Its still Brexit, the people voted for Brexit and Brexit mean Brexit remember "Lol , well it was meant to | |||
"I suspect most labour mp's right now would expect to lose their seats, given the state of their party. The only division in the Labour party is between the members (who are the party) and the majority of the PLP and national executive committee of the labour party who seem to believe that we are their to serve them rather than they to implement the members will. It is fair to say that there is a deep and growing anger amongst party members about how the PLP and NEC have been acting and unless MPs and the NEC start implementing our will we will remove them. In fact it has already started and many MPs (mine included) now understand that any more attempts to undermine the party will will result in their deselection and expulsion from the party. He is not great at making life difficult for the government unless it's his own party in power though. He's missed quite a few opportunities to skewer this inept shower over the last year. Really? You must have been watching a different JC to me. Because the one I have been watching has quietly refused to participate in the and therefore give gravitas to the cheap playground bully-boy tactics displayed by most and especially caMoron at the dispatch box. He also refused to buy into the project fear tactics of the tory funded Remain campaign, as a result he obeyed a cardinal rule in combat (politics is a form of combat) and did not interrupt his adversary as he committed political suicide, he even sat quietly while caMoron made his "For pities sake Go Man, GO!" resignation speech. Thus allowing the government and tory party to continue its very real delusional meltdown that has led to a ruling that Ms May has to get parliamentary approval to trigger Article 50. At the same time this was going on he successfully used the same tactics to see off an internal coup by the PLP while increasing his mandate. Then out of nowhere after tory MPs go on record to say that they will vote against triggering Article 50 JC makes another very reasonable statement that changes Ms May and the governments position from extremely difficult to near impossible. Remembering he as managed all the above while under well orchestrated media black propaganda attack, I for one would describe what he has managed to do as spectacular. Either he has a deep understanding of Sun Tzu and its application to politics or of boxing and how to 'rope a dope'. One way or another I doubt that we will be hearing many more briefings against JC from within the PLP and I expect that he will be treated with a lot more respect in the house by Ms May and her chums from now on. " There is a lot of that I agree with. I don't know how good a leader JC could be and I put much of that and the lack of opposition to the government more at the door of the PLP than Corbyn, but Corbyn is not blameless. He hasn't been savvy. I like his decency. I hope and think it is a long term strategy that might work. But he needs smarter people around him who know how to get his message across and work the media. He is limited in his choices, but fucking hell, Diane Abbott as shadow Home Secretary??? | |||
"Thats the end of the Labour party then. And good riddance" Have to say I agree, the Labour party are frankly irrelevant now. Theresa May's government have an 18 point lead over Labour in the polls. If Theresa May calls a general election it will be a landslide victory for her Conservative party (and Brexit). | |||
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"Pity she can't then. " | |||
"I think he is showing full appreciation and surprising political skill. Why are you surprised? Is it because you have been believing what the papers and BBC say rather than reading his policies? No. His policies are good on the whole and he has always been a good principled MP. He is not great at making life difficult for the government unless it's his own party in power though. He's missed quite a few opportunities to skewer this inept shower over the last year. " Jeremy Corbyn a good principled MP??? You've got to be having a laugh.
Corbyn is a Euroscepic and opposed EU membership for decades. As George Galloway pointed out during the referendum campaign "Corbyn stood right next to me in the anti EU lobbies in Parliament in the 1970's, 1980's, 1990's and 2000's". In fact Corbyn took an anti EU stance right up until the point he became leader of the labour party. Corbyn is a sell out who turned his back on his principles.
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"If the government don't guarantee access to the single market. Get in. At last some proper opposition from Mr Corbyn. "Perhaps he should tell his deputy that the labour party are going to oppose art 50 he has just said they will support triggering it .
What a shower | |||
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"They have said they will respect the referendum and trigger article 50, but it must be with the policy of full access to the single market. So Labour has announced their plan. Do you think the government have one yet?" everyone on the planet has full access to the single market. Leaving the EU and leaving the single market are one and the same thing and what we will do | |||
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"They have said they will respect the referendum and trigger article 50, but it must be with the policy of full access to the single market. So Labour has announced their plan. Do you think the government have one yet? everyone on the planet has full access to the single market. Leaving the EU and leaving the single market are one and the same thing and what we will do" The Canadians must be wondering what they have been doing for the last 7 years and the Norwegian people are going to be mightily surprised that they are now in the EU following your pronouncement. | |||
"They have said they will respect the referendum and trigger article 50, but it must be with the policy of full access to the single market. So Labour has announced their plan. Do you think the government have one yet? everyone on the planet has full access to the single market. Leaving the EU and leaving the single market are one and the same thing and what we will do The Canadians must be wondering what they have been doing for the last 7 years and the Norwegian people are going to be mightily surprised that they are now in the EU following your pronouncement. " you are confusing access with membership | |||
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"That is right and its good that the mps see sense and can block brexit as they dont want to see the country go down hill as they want london still to be the capital of the world with good economy." You really think most give a shit about anyone but themselves | |||
"That is right and its good that the mps see sense and can block brexit as they dont want to see the country go down hill as they want london still to be the capital of the world with good economy. You really think most give a shit about anyone but themselves" No, but still to keep the best interest for the country, | |||
"They have said they will respect the referendum and trigger article 50, but it must be with the policy of full access to the single market. So Labour has announced their plan. Do you think the government have one yet? everyone on the planet has full access to the single market. Leaving the EU and leaving the single market are one and the same thing and what we will do The Canadians must be wondering what they have been doing for the last 7 years and the Norwegian people are going to be mightily surprised that they are now in the EU following your pronouncement. you are confusing access with membership" You are confusing access with full access. | |||
"They have said they will respect the referendum and trigger article 50, but it must be with the policy of full access to the single market. So Labour has announced their plan. Do you think the government have one yet? everyone on the planet has full access to the single market. Leaving the EU and leaving the single market are one and the same thing and what we will do The Canadians must be wondering what they have been doing for the last 7 years and the Norwegian people are going to be mightily surprised that they are now in the EU following your pronouncement. you are confusing access with membership You are confusing access with full access. " access is access, what you mean is free of tariff access | |||
"They have said they will respect the referendum and trigger article 50, but it must be with the policy of full access to the single market. So Labour has announced their plan. Do you think the government have one yet? everyone on the planet has full access to the single market. Leaving the EU and leaving the single market are one and the same thing and what we will do The Canadians must be wondering what they have been doing for the last 7 years and the Norwegian people are going to be mightily surprised that they are now in the EU following your pronouncement. you are confusing access with membership You are confusing access with full access. " access is access. I don't know why they use that word for it it's a bit lazy, what they mean is full benefits of it. But there are more benefits to being out of it. To quote James Dyson again when asked if we should leave the single market? "ABSOLUTELY" | |||
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"They have said they will respect the referendum and trigger article 50, but it must be with the policy of full access to the single market. So Labour has announced their plan. Do you think the government have one yet? everyone on the planet has full access to the single market. Leaving the EU and leaving the single market are one and the same thing and what we will do The Canadians must be wondering what they have been doing for the last 7 years and the Norwegian people are going to be mightily surprised that they are now in the EU following your pronouncement. you are confusing access with membership You are confusing access with full access. access is access. I don't know why they use that word for it it's a bit lazy, what they mean is full benefits of it. But there are more benefits to being out of it. To quote James Dyson again when asked if we should leave the single market? "ABSOLUTELY"" Plus David Cameron said repeatedly during the referendum campaign "to leave the EU means we also leave the single market". He could not have made it clearer. Everyone knew what they were voting for on June 23rd when they voted leave the EU they also voted to leave the single market. | |||
"They have said they will respect the referendum and trigger article 50, but it must be with the policy of full access to the single market. So Labour has announced their plan. Do you think the government have one yet? everyone on the planet has full access to the single market. Leaving the EU and leaving the single market are one and the same thing and what we will do The Canadians must be wondering what they have been doing for the last 7 years and the Norwegian people are going to be mightily surprised that they are now in the EU following your pronouncement. you are confusing access with membership You are confusing access with full access. access is access. I don't know why they use that word for it it's a bit lazy, what they mean is full benefits of it. But there are more benefits to being out of it. To quote James Dyson again when asked if we should leave the single market? "ABSOLUTELY" Plus David Cameron said repeatedly during the referendum campaign "to leave the EU means we also leave the single market". He could not have made it clearer. Everyone knew what they were voting for on June 23rd when they voted leave the EU they also voted to leave the single market. " If we leave the EU, that is Brexit, everything else is just details. Doesnt matter if we are still contributing, if we still have freedom of movement, if we are still part of the single market etc. We still will have left, that my friends, is Brexit | |||
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"Is he then going to bring all his factories back to the uk from Malaysia?" Doubt it, he's more concerned with his new research facility, his new university and the future production of cars | |||
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"Brexiter: Now that I know what the euro is. I wish I stayed in, ops I didnt know we would lose the single market or have high tarrifs to trade with the eu. " We never joined the Euro. | |||
"Brexiter: Now that I know what the euro is. I wish I stayed in, ops I didnt know we would lose the single market or have high tarrifs to trade with the eu. We never joined the Euro. " That is right. I meant the eu there. | |||
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"Is he then going to bring all his factories back to the uk from Malaysia? Doubt it, he's more concerned with his new research facility, his new university and the future production of cars "Interesting that you are saying research and scientific advancement are key. Indeed they are. Which is why the scientific community have been utterly opposed to leaving the EU. Yet another area where you Brexiters are going to cause us death by a thousand cuts. | |||
"Is he then going to bring all his factories back to the uk from Malaysia? Doubt it, he's more concerned with his new research facility, his new university and the future production of cars
Interesting that you are saying research and scientific advancement are key. Indeed they are. Which is why the scientific community have been utterly opposed to leaving the EU. Yet another area where you Brexiters are going to cause us death by a thousand cuts. "Why would it? So far all scientific and research funding has continued as it was before. Nothing has changed in that area. | |||
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"Those of us who voted to leave the federation of communist dinosaurs, sorry I meant the EU, will continue to fight to ensure that the result of the referendum is honoured. The pathetic yet constant whinging by the losers who voted to remain hasn't changed what the majority have always believed. As decided millions of years by movement of the tectonic plates, Britain and Europe should be separated. We won't stop, and if the politicians believe that buying time and working on the public with their bullshit propaganda, that they can dilute our message then they are wrong. What is now occurring is that a new movement is building. It has yet to be given a name, but as politicians and corrupt legal big wigs are attempting to nullify our referenda victory, alliances are being built between likeminded people who are starting to become alarmed that our BREXIT might never happen. From what I have been told so far, I'm a little bit worried that the government will call for martial law. Something that they have been preparing for for some time now. I really cannot alaborate as things stand, not just to avoid another ban from here either. If what I have heard was meant to be publicly knowledge, it already would be..." as the great Eric Idle once said in another comedy sketch 'nudge nudge, wink wink ..say no more' | |||
"Those of us who voted to leave the federation of communist dinosaurs, sorry I meant the EU, will continue to fight to ensure that the result of the referendum is honoured. The pathetic yet constant whinging by the losers who voted to remain hasn't changed what the majority have always believed. As decided millions of years by movement of the tectonic plates, Britain and Europe should be separated. We won't stop, and if the politicians believe that buying time and working on the public with their bullshit propaganda, that they can dilute our message then they are wrong. What is now occurring is that a new movement is building. It has yet to be given a name, but as politicians and corrupt legal big wigs are attempting to nullify our referenda victory, alliances are being built between likeminded people who are starting to become alarmed that our BREXIT might never happen. From what I have been told so far, I'm a little bit worried that the government will call for martial law. Something that they have been preparing for for some time now. I really cannot alaborate as things stand, not just to avoid another ban from here either. If what I have heard was meant to be publicly knowledge, it already would be... as the great Eric Idle once said in another comedy sketch 'nudge nudge, wink wink ..say no more' "Be careful....it would seem that the day of reckoning is just around the corner! | |||
"Those of us who voted to leave the federation of communist dinosaurs, sorry I meant the EU, will continue to fight to ensure that the result of the referendum is honoured. The pathetic yet constant whinging by the losers who voted to remain hasn't changed what the majority have always believed. As decided millions of years by movement of the tectonic plates, Britain and Europe should be separated. We won't stop, and if the politicians believe that buying time and working on the public with their bullshit propaganda, that they can dilute our message then they are wrong. What is now occurring is that a new movement is building. It has yet to be given a name, but as politicians and corrupt legal big wigs are attempting to nullify our referenda victory, alliances are being built between likeminded people who are starting to become alarmed that our BREXIT might never happen. From what I have been told so far, I'm a little bit worried that the government will call for martial law. Something that they have been preparing for for some time now. I really cannot alaborate as things stand, not just to avoid another ban from here either. If what I have heard was meant to be publicly knowledge, it already would be... as the great Eric Idle once said in another comedy sketch 'nudge nudge, wink wink ..say no more' "Of course, yes you carry on. I don't envisage much nudging. | |||
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"Those of us who voted to leave the federation of communist dinosaurs, sorry I meant the EU, will continue to fight to ensure that the result of the referendum is honoured. The pathetic yet constant whinging by the losers who voted to remain hasn't changed what the majority have always believed. As decided millions of years by movement of the tectonic plates, Britain and Europe should be separated. We won't stop, and if the politicians believe that buying time and working on the public with their bullshit propaganda, that they can dilute our message then they are wrong. What is now occurring is that a new movement is building. It has yet to be given a name, but as politicians and corrupt legal big wigs are attempting to nullify our referenda victory, alliances are being built between likeminded people who are starting to become alarmed that our BREXIT might never happen. From what I have been told so far, I'm a little bit worried that the government will call for martial law. Something that they have been preparing for for some time now. I really cannot alaborate as things stand, not just to avoid another ban from here either. If what I have heard was meant to be publicly knowledge, it already would be... as the great Eric Idle once said in another comedy sketch 'nudge nudge, wink wink ..say no more'
Of course, yes you carry on. I don't envisage much nudging."tempted as I am to say don't tell the Pike, its a bit late though.. you just did.. | |||
"Yeah, because Python wouldn't send you fuckers up! You already sound like a cross between hitler and his henchmen hiding away in a terrace house pretending to be English and the Judean Peoples Front. "Do you ever read your own posts? 6 lines yet so much rubbish! | |||
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"Actually it has already had an effect. Co-operative projects have already been stalling, british involvement put on hold. You see Science is the perfect example of what is wrong with right wing politics and economics. It is about cooperation, sharing. It is about, usually, state funding and often Unintended consequensces. The private sector won't do that. They have narrow focus. 50% of the growth of the USA economy post war has been attributed to technological advances. Something like 27% of all modern everyday essential inventions came from the UK which is astonishing. The fucking brexiters like yourself don't even appreciate how important our science is and don't understand how cooperation internationally is essential. Your irresponsible myopia is leading to us getting froze out, funding stretched and you are so afraid of people who are a different colour or language you are refusing to exempt overseas students from the stupid fucking migration quota limit of 100,000. The Leave campaign didn't even address this issue. The government still haven't announced even this part of a plan. It is hard to overstate how imbecilic Vote Leave and UKIP are. So thank your lucky stars those who voted Remain are fighting hard because we may just get this part of the fiasco rescued. " Some pretty wild and completely false assumptions you are making about Leave voters there. As someone else just said "do you actually read what you write?" before you hit the post button?  | |||
"You jokers really think that there will be no backlash? That the very possibility is no more than some silly Python joke?? Who are you trying to fool, except for yourselves???" I'm sure some of your bigger loons will make a bit of noise and one or two eyes will swivel, but you'll still be defeated. We are either staying in the EU full stop or staying in the single market, just get used to it. Deep down you know it's true. | |||
"meanwhile in a bunker.." You not too good at Golf then? | |||
"You jokers really think that there will be no backlash? That the very possibility is no more than some silly Python joke?? Who are you trying to fool, except for yourselves??? I'm sure some of your bigger loons will make a bit of noise and one or two eyes will swivel, but you'll still be defeated. We are either staying in the EU full stop or staying in the single market, just get used to it. Deep down you know it's true. " You thought Remain would win the referendum, you are deluding yourself if you think we'll stay in the EU. | |||
"You might think it is jibberish but we know your powers of comprehension are poor, just based on my post about 60 year olds draining the NHS. " Oh yes, that wonderful post saying that young immigrants were better news for the UK than a bunch of 60 year olds draining the NHS. Real class act you aye? I simply point out that said 60 year olds were not actually draining something that they had been paying in to all their working lives, and you come back with? - Wait for it - that I didn't understand what you had actually posted... The trouble is that I did understand it, only too well. You don't like, for what ever reason, British people. You would like us all to die out and be replaced. You have admitted as much in previous posts. Insulting the elderly is par for the course for you methinks. | |||
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"meanwhile in a bunker.. You not too good at Golf then? "No, they can only hit the ball to the extreme left | |||
"meanwhile in a bunker.. You not too good at Golf then?
"spoil a good walk, oh no no no..  | |||
"You jokers really think that there will be no backlash? That the very possibility is no more than some silly Python joke?? Who are you trying to fool, except for yourselves??? I'm sure some of your bigger loons will make a bit of noise and one or two eyes will swivel, but you'll still be defeated. We are either staying in the EU full stop or staying in the single market, just get used to it. Deep down you know it's true. " One thing I don't doubt is that the politicians will negate the referendum if they possibly can, including Theresa May they cannot be trusted. If this happens there will be trouble, much more than the poll tax ever caused. | |||
"meanwhile in a bunker.. You not too good at Golf then?
No, they can only hit the ball to the extreme left "that made me chuckle, one of your better inputs.. | |||
"meanwhile in a bunker.. You not too good at Golf then?
No, they can only hit the ball to the extreme left "Reminds me of that sketch on newzoids, Jeremy Corbyn came out of his house to go to work in Westminster, he kept turning left and ended up in China. | |||
".... and this seasons most sought after accessory for the discerning conspiracy theorist in the Hove/Lewes area is the tin-foil hat .... but be careful it's shiny glamour doesn't attract the attention of the army patrols on the street after the 7pm curfew "And that is the best you can do? Don't give up the day job. | |||
"meanwhile in a bunker.. You not too good at Golf then?
No, they can only hit the ball to the extreme left
Reminds me of that sketch on newzoids, Jeremy Corbyn came out of his house to go to work in Westminster, he kept turning left and ended up in China. "Did the bike have stabilisers? | |||
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"You might think it is jibberish but we know your powers of comprehension are poor, just based on my post about 60 year olds draining the NHS. Oh yes, that wonderful post saying that young immigrants were better news for the UK than a bunch of 60 year olds draining the NHS. Real class act you aye? I simply point out that said 60 year olds were not actually draining something that they had been paying in to all their working lives, and you come back with? - Wait for it - that I didn't understand what you had actually posted... The trouble is that I did understand it, only too well. You don't like, for what ever reason, British people. You would like us all to die out and be replaced. You have admitted as much in previous posts. Insulting the elderly is par for the course for you methinks. " Here is the offending post 'By Fille Derobee TV/TS 2 weeks ago Darlington How was it sensible? The doofus didn't even understand I was saying we don't get 60 year old migrants that drain the NHS, but young, healthy hard working migrants who put money into the system to pay for the healthcare 60 year old UK citizens who have contributed all their lives to AND ARE FULLY ENTITLED TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF.' As I said, your powers of comprehension are lacking. I even wrote it in capitals for the hard of thinking. It is a fact, is it not, that we get less healthy as we get older? You are so twisted, so rabid, you can't actually read sentences properly. The discussion was on migrants. You think they come to sponge off our welfare state. I handed you your arse last time, do you want me to do it again? | |||
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"Actually it has already had an effect. Co-operative projects have already been stalling, british involvement put on hold. You see Science is the perfect example of what is wrong with right wing politics and economics. It is about cooperation, sharing. It is about, usually, state funding and often Unintended consequensces. The private sector won't do that. They have narrow focus. 50% of the growth of the USA economy post war has been attributed to technological advances. Something like 27% of all modern everyday essential inventions came from the UK which is astonishing. The fucking brexiters like yourself don't even appreciate how important our science is and don't understand how cooperation internationally is essential. Your irresponsible myopia is leading to us getting froze out, funding stretched and you are so afraid of people who are a different colour or language you are refusing to exempt overseas students from the stupid fucking migration quota limit of 100,000. The Leave campaign didn't even address this issue. The government still haven't announced even this part of a plan. It is hard to overstate how imbecilic Vote Leave and UKIP are. So thank your lucky stars those who voted Remain are fighting hard because we may just get this part of the fiasco rescued. " How can the campaign to which you refer have any possible impact on research ? To date I am unaware of any funding being cut on research projects . Maybe you should review the language that you use in some of your posts . Calling people imbeciles is a reflection on the author and not the recipient. Is the use of words such as fucking really necessary?. | |||
"You might think it is jibberish but we know your powers of comprehension are poor, just based on my post about 60 year olds draining the NHS. Oh yes, that wonderful post saying that young immigrants were better news for the UK than a bunch of 60 year olds draining the NHS. Real class act you aye? I simply point out that said 60 year olds were not actually draining something that they had been paying in to all their working lives, and you come back with? - Wait for it - that I didn't understand what you had actually posted... The trouble is that I did understand it, only too well. You don't like, for what ever reason, British people. You would like us all to die out and be replaced. You have admitted as much in previous posts. Insulting the elderly is par for the course for you methinks. Here is the offending post 'By Fille Derobee TV/TS 2 weeks ago Darlington How was it sensible? The doofus didn't even understand I was saying we don't get 60 year old migrants that drain the NHS, but young, healthy hard working migrants who put money into the system to pay for the healthcare 60 year old UK citizens who have contributed all their lives to AND ARE FULLY ENTITLED TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF.' As I said, your powers of comprehension are lacking. I even wrote it in capitals for the hard of thinking. It is a fact, is it not, that we get less healthy as we get older? You are so twisted, so rabid, you can't actually read sentences properly. The discussion was on migrants. You think they come to sponge off our welfare state. I handed you your arse last time, do you want me to do it again? "  The bottom line of your post would appear to be that you consider 60 year olds to be a drain on the NHS. If not why did you mention 60 year olds in the first place .
I considered the comment to be highly offensive . | |||
"You might think it is jibberish but we know your powers of comprehension are poor, just based on my post about 60 year olds draining the NHS. Oh yes, that wonderful post saying that young immigrants were better news for the UK than a bunch of 60 year olds draining the NHS. Real class act you aye? I simply point out that said 60 year olds were not actually draining something that they had been paying in to all their working lives, and you come back with? - Wait for it - that I didn't understand what you had actually posted... The trouble is that I did understand it, only too well. You don't like, for what ever reason, British people. You would like us all to die out and be replaced. You have admitted as much in previous posts. Insulting the elderly is par for the course for you methinks. Here is the offending post 'By Fille Derobee TV/TS 2 weeks ago Darlington How was it sensible? The doofus didn't even understand I was saying we don't get 60 year old migrants that drain the NHS, but young, healthy hard working migrants who put money into the system to pay for the healthcare 60 year old UK citizens who have contributed all their lives to AND ARE FULLY ENTITLED TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF.' As I said, your powers of comprehension are lacking. I even wrote it in capitals for the hard of thinking. It is a fact, is it not, that we get less healthy as we get older? You are so twisted, so rabid, you can't actually read sentences properly. The discussion was on migrants. You think they come to sponge off our welfare state. I handed you your arse last time, do you want me to do it again? " You just repeated that post, yet see no wrong in it? You are trying to say that these wonderful "young migrants" are paying for the healthcare of 60 year old "UK residents." I'm saying that you are talking poop, because the said 60 year olds have already paid for their healthcare. Unlike said migrants, who despite their younger age will still require healthcare. So not only are your comments crass and insulting to Britain's elderly, they are also totally inaccurate. No doubt you will fail to understand this, and so to use your own intellectual terminology (lol), perhaps you are the "doofus" here. | |||
"Actually it has already had an effect. Co-operative projects have already been stalling, british involvement put on hold. You see Science is the perfect example of what is wrong with right wing politics and economics. It is about cooperation, sharing. It is about, usually, state funding and often Unintended consequensces. The private sector won't do that. They have narrow focus. 50% of the growth of the USA economy post war has been attributed to technological advances. Something like 27% of all modern everyday essential inventions came from the UK which is astonishing. The fucking brexiters like yourself don't even appreciate how important our science is and don't understand how cooperation internationally is essential. Your irresponsible myopia is leading to us getting froze out, funding stretched and you are so afraid of people who are a different colour or language you are refusing to exempt overseas students from the stupid fucking migration quota limit of 100,000. The Leave campaign didn't even address this issue. The government still haven't announced even this part of a plan. It is hard to overstate how imbecilic Vote Leave and UKIP are. So thank your lucky stars those who voted Remain are fighting hard because we may just get this part of the fiasco rescued. How can the campaign to which you refer have any possible impact on research ? To date I am unaware of any funding being cut on research projects . Maybe you should review the language that you use in some of your posts . Calling people imbeciles is a reflection on the author and not the recipient. Is the use of words such as fucking really necessary?. " Too right, happy to have a frank discussion but the insults thrown mean the author has lost the argument | |||
" So not only are your comments crass and insulting to Britain's elderly, they are also totally inaccurate. " being offended on behalf of other people ..... hmmmm , this kind of comment must be the liberalist PC thing that you say the country is being killed by | |||
" So not only are your comments crass and insulting to Britain's elderly, they are also totally inaccurate. being offended on behalf of other people ..... hmmmm , this kind of comment must be the liberalist PC thing that you say the country is being killed by " I said it was insulting to them, but as I'm not 60 + I did not say offensive to me. But you continue twisting my comments. It is even funnier when you leave the quote you are misquoting. | |||
" So not only are your comments crass and insulting to Britain's elderly, they are also totally inaccurate. being offended on behalf of other people ..... hmmmm , this kind of comment must be the liberalist PC thing that you say the country is being killed by I said it was insulting to them, but as I'm not 60 + I did not say offensive to me. But you continue twisting my comments. It is even funnier when you leave the quote you are misquoting." let me take the liberty of reposting my post so as to highlight it's accuracy now that you've responded "being offended on behalf of other people ..... hmmmm , this kind of comment must be the liberalist PC thing that you say the country is being killed by " | |||
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"If the government don't guarantee access to the single market. Get in. At last some proper opposition from Mr Corbyn. "Hoe can anybody know what the final negotiation will be,Corbyn being an idiot again | |||
"A lot to tackle here so for now, due to lack of time I'll just sort out the migrant/60 year olds using the NHS. The thread was on immigrants coming over here taking from us, not contributing etc etc. People are net contributors to the system when they are paying taxes in and not using resources. When we are young we use the education system but we are not earning, not paying taxes in to the system. For most of our working life we pay in and because we are young and healthy we don't use the nhs as much. The dynamic changes as we reach pensionable age. We are an ageing population. That costs. The migrants tend not to be children or 60 year olds coming over to use the NHS. They are young, motivated, hard working net contributors. They add to society not take away. We need them. The poster in question misunderstood or wilfully misrepresented my posts several times, used personally directed insulting language, got himself banned - twice - and had a thread deleted. Then put more misrepresentations of my views on another thread that got closed before I could respond. So he now has his response. At no point did I suggest uk citizens are not entitled to use the NHS. I even put it in capitals. " However you still referred to 60 year olds as being a drain on the NHS which is pretty insultung to say the least . In any event unless the young migrants to which you refer only stay for a comparatively short period of time they will also become elderly and use the NHS . Would you ( to use your terminology ) also consider them to be a drain on the NHS. You might also bear in mind that a section of the elderly ( or their estates ) pay inheritance tax and probably pay in more than they take out . Not all migrants are net contributors . On a percentage basis you will find that migrants from certain regions are over represented as a percent of the prison population. It is possible that inmigration in limited numbers and of the right type of pwrson may bring short term benefits to the economy . However if there are other underlying issues such as failure to train sufficient members of the current uk population in key skilled areas , we should be addressing these issues , not relying on imported labour to provide a temporary solution . | |||
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"A lot to tackle here so for now, due to lack of time I'll just sort out the migrant/60 year olds using the NHS. The thread was on immigrants coming over here taking from us, not contributing etc etc. People are net contributors to the system when they are paying taxes in and not using resources. When we are young we use the education system but we are not earning, not paying taxes in to the system. For most of our working life we pay in and because we are young and healthy we don't use the nhs as much. The dynamic changes as we reach pensionable age. We are an ageing population. That costs. The migrants tend not to be children or 60 year olds coming over to use the NHS. They are young, motivated, hard working net contributors. They add to society not take away. We need them. The poster in question misunderstood or wilfully misrepresented my posts several times, used personally directed insulting language, got himself banned - twice - and had a thread deleted. Then put more misrepresentations of my views on another thread that got closed before I could respond. So he now has his response. At no point did I suggest uk citizens are not entitled to use the NHS. I even put it in capitals. However you still referred to 60 year olds as being a drain on the NHS which is pretty insultung to say the least . In any event unless the young migrants to which you refer only stay for a comparatively short period of time they will also become elderly and use the NHS . Would you ( to use your terminology ) also consider them to be a drain on the NHS. You might also bear in mind that a section of the elderly ( or their estates ) pay inheritance tax and probably pay in more than they take out . Not all migrants are net contributors . On a percentage basis you will find that migrants from certain regions are over represented as a percent of the prison population. It is possible that inmigration in limited numbers and of the right type of pwrson may bring short term benefits to the economy . However if there are other underlying issues such as failure to train sufficient members of the current uk population in key skilled areas , we should be addressing these issues , not relying on imported labour to provide a temporary solution ." which regions are you referring to about the prison population ? | |||
"however its worded the over 60's are the demographic that are the ones using more resources of the NHS and social care, that's borne out by the Kings fund etc.. its not rocket science, as we all get older we will by and large have more health issue's.. " ...and as pensioners we will all have paid more into the system throughout our working lives than any other section of society. | |||
"If the government don't guarantee access to the single market. Get in. At last some proper opposition from Mr Corbyn. "Latest on sky news....A source close to Jeremy Corbyn says the Labour party support for triggering article 50 in Parliament is "unconditional". It seems that the Labour party are now at 6s and 7s with one another and yet another internal war over this is brewing within the Labour party. I think most people now realise the Labour party are a bit of a joke, this latest gaffe only confirms that view. | |||
"A lot to tackle here so for now, due to lack of time I'll just sort out the migrant/60 year olds using the NHS. The thread was on immigrants coming over here taking from us, not contributing etc etc. People are net contributors to the system when they are paying taxes in and not using resources. When we are young we use the education system but we are not earning, not paying taxes in to the system. For most of our working life we pay in and because we are young and healthy we don't use the nhs as much. The dynamic changes as we reach pensionable age. We are an ageing population. That costs. The migrants tend not to be children or 60 year olds coming over to use the NHS. They are young, motivated, hard working net contributors. They add to society not take away. We need them. The poster in question misunderstood or wilfully misrepresented my posts several times, used personally directed insulting language, got himself banned - twice - and had a thread deleted. Then put more misrepresentations of my views on another thread that got closed before I could respond. So he now has his response. At no point did I suggest uk citizens are not entitled to use the NHS. I even put it in capitals. However you still referred to 60 year olds as being a drain on the NHS which is pretty insultung to say the least . In any event unless the young migrants to which you refer only stay for a comparatively short period of time they will also become elderly and use the NHS . Would you ( to use your terminology ) also consider them to be a drain on the NHS. You might also bear in mind that a section of the elderly ( or their estates ) pay inheritance tax and probably pay in more than they take out . Not all migrants are net contributors . On a percentage basis you will find that migrants from certain regions are over represented as a percent of the prison population. It is possible that inmigration in limited numbers and of the right type of pwrson may bring short term benefits to the economy . However if there are other underlying issues such as failure to train sufficient members of the current uk population in key skilled areas , we should be addressing these issues , not relying on imported labour to provide a temporary solution ." | |||
"A lot to tackle here so for now, due to lack of time I'll just sort out the migrant/60 year olds using the NHS. The thread was on immigrants coming over here taking from us, not contributing etc etc. People are net contributors to the system when they are paying taxes in and not using resources. When we are young we use the education system but we are not earning, not paying taxes in to the system. For most of our working life we pay in and because we are young and healthy we don't use the nhs as much. The dynamic changes as we reach pensionable age. We are an ageing population. That costs. The migrants tend not to be children or 60 year olds coming over to use the NHS. They are young, motivated, hard working net contributors. They add to society not take away. We need them. The poster in question misunderstood or wilfully misrepresented my posts several times, used personally directed insulting language, got himself banned - twice - and had a thread deleted. Then put more misrepresentations of my views on another thread that got closed before I could respond. So he now has his response. At no point did I suggest uk citizens are not entitled to use the NHS. I even put it in capitals. However you still referred to 60 year olds as being a drain on the NHS which is pretty insultung to say the least . In any event unless the young migrants to which you refer only stay for a comparatively short period of time they will also become elderly and use the NHS . Would you ( to use your terminology ) also consider them to be a drain on the NHS. You might also bear in mind that a section of the elderly ( or their estates ) pay inheritance tax and probably pay in more than they take out . Not all migrants are net contributors . On a percentage basis you will find that migrants from certain regions are over represented as a percent of the prison population. It is possible that inmigration in limited numbers and of the right type of pwrson may bring short term benefits to the economy . However if there are other underlying issues such as failure to train sufficient members of the current uk population in key skilled areas , we should be addressing these issues , not relying on imported labour to provide a temporary solution . which regions are you referring to about the prison population ?" I am referring to certain countries and I am sure that you already know the ones to which I am referring.. | |||
"A lot to tackle here so for now, due to lack of time I'll just sort out the migrant/60 year olds using the NHS. The thread was on immigrants coming over here taking from us, not contributing etc etc. People are net contributors to the system when they are paying taxes in and not using resources. When we are young we use the education system but we are not earning, not paying taxes in to the system. For most of our working life we pay in and because we are young and healthy we don't use the nhs as much. The dynamic changes as we reach pensionable age. We are an ageing population. That costs. The migrants tend not to be children or 60 year olds coming over to use the NHS. They are young, motivated, hard working net contributors. They add to society not take away. We need them. The poster in question misunderstood or wilfully misrepresented my posts several times, used personally directed insulting language, got himself banned - twice - and had a thread deleted. Then put more misrepresentations of my views on another thread that got closed before I could respond. So he now has his response. At no point did I suggest uk citizens are not entitled to use the NHS. I even put it in capitals. However you still referred to 60 year olds as being a drain on the NHS which is pretty insultung to say the least . In any event unless the young migrants to which you refer only stay for a comparatively short period of time they will also become elderly and use the NHS . Would you ( to use your terminology ) also consider them to be a drain on the NHS. You might also bear in mind that a section of the elderly ( or their estates ) pay inheritance tax and probably pay in more than they take out . Not all migrants are net contributors . On a percentage basis you will find that migrants from certain regions are over represented as a percent of the prison population. It is possible that inmigration in limited numbers and of the right type of pwrson may bring short term benefits to the economy . However if there are other underlying issues such as failure to train sufficient members of the current uk population in key skilled areas , we should be addressing these issues , not relying on imported labour to provide a temporary solution ." My post did not refer to 60 year old uk citizens as a drain, but a largely mythical 60 year old immigrant, who therefore had never contributed to the services of this country via taxation, as a drain. I've dragged the thread off topic so won't respond to the other points re immigration. My apologies. | |||
"If the government don't guarantee access to the single market. Get in. At last some proper opposition from Mr Corbyn.
Latest on sky news....A source close to Jeremy Corbyn says the Labour party support for triggering article 50 in Parliament is "unconditional".
It seems that the Labour party are now at 6s and 7s with one another and yet another internal war over this is brewing within the Labour party.
I think most people now realise the Labour party are a bit of a joke, this latest gaffe only confirms that view. "The Labour Party are a joke? At least they have come up with a Leave plan/strategy. The Tories haven't even though it was their idea to have a referendum and UKIP haven't worked out any actual details even though this was there entire reason for existence. In 25 years you'd think they'd have actually given it some thought and come up with a plan. Then again they can't even agree which prominent member punched who or find anyone who wants to lead that bunch. | |||
"If the government don't guarantee access to the single market. Get in. At last some proper opposition from Mr Corbyn.
Latest on sky news....A source close to Jeremy Corbyn says the Labour party support for triggering article 50 in Parliament is "unconditional".
It seems that the Labour party are now at 6s and 7s with one another and yet another internal war over this is brewing within the Labour party.
I think most people now realise the Labour party are a bit of a joke, this latest gaffe only confirms that view.
The Labour Party are a joke?
At least they have come up with a Leave plan/strategy.
The Tories haven't even though it was their idea to have a referendum and UKIP haven't worked out any actual details even though this was there entire reason for existence. In 25 years you'd think they'd have actually given it some thought and come up with a plan. Then again they can't even agree which prominent member punched who or find anyone who wants to lead that bunch. "You started a thread about this so you tell us all, is the Labour party support for triggering article 50 unconditional now or does it come with conditions like staying a member of the single market? It seems the labour party themselves don't know, maybe you can shed some light on it for us?  | |||
"however its worded the over 60's are the demographic that are the ones using more resources of the NHS and social care, that's borne out by the Kings fund etc.. its not rocket science, as we all get older we will by and large have more health issue's.. " It still remains a highly offensive comment to state that the over 60s are a drain on the NHS . More to the point the poster made no attempt to explain why he considered them to be a drain on the NHS when compared to the amount that they have paid in taxes over a lifetime . The issue of funding and health care of the elderly is one of the serious issues that society faces especially with the break down in family structure and people living longer. However there can never be any justification for using the terminology which the poster used and I consider it to be an offensive and highly obectionable remark to state that over 60s are a drain on the NHS.. | |||
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"That is a good question. Corbyn is distinguishing Labour from the Lib Dems and Owen Smiths approach to ignore/reverse the vote. They will not oppose leaving the EU. There vision is to leave the EU but retain full access to the single market, retain workers rights, not put unrealistic quotas on immigration but work with Europe to address these concerns across the other EU countries. " But It says on sky news now a Labour party source close to Corbyn says it's support for leaving the EU is unconditional. That means no strings attached, no conditions to meet, which means your OP about staying in the single market was frankly a load of bollocks. | |||
Makes me look pretty stupid.
However do you really believe it can be conditional when Corbyn has listed conditions and said he will oppose the government if they don't have these aims?
For me he is trying to say that these are not only the aims the government should have, he believes they are the aims the government will have.
Davis and Bojo, based on their utterances on trade deal wish lists, certainly would like that full single market access. Clearly from her pre referendum private speech to Goldman Sachs, the single market full access is a major wish for Teresa May too.
The problem for them is, at least in Davis and Mays case (boris has no real conviction on anything beyond what is politically expedient as far as I can see) they are very keen on damaging our econo er I mean cracking down on immigration.
So unless a unique solution to that can be found, it will require a choice.
I think if the Tories choose immigration control over single market Labour will oppose.
What do you think? | |||
"A lot to tackle here so for now, due to lack of time I'll just sort out the migrant/60 year olds using the NHS. The thread was on immigrants coming over here taking from us, not contributing etc etc. People are net contributors to the system when they are paying taxes in and not using resources. When we are young we use the education system but we are not earning, not paying taxes in to the system. For most of our working life we pay in and because we are young and healthy we don't use the nhs as much. The dynamic changes as we reach pensionable age. We are an ageing population. That costs. The migrants tend not to be children or 60 year olds coming over to use the NHS. They are young, motivated, hard working net contributors. They add to society not take away. We need them. The poster in question misunderstood or wilfully misrepresented my posts several times, used personally directed insulting language, got himself banned - twice - and had a thread deleted. Then put more misrepresentations of my views on another thread that got closed before I could respond. So he now has his response. At no point did I suggest uk citizens are not entitled to use the NHS. I even put it in capitals. However you still referred to 60 year olds as being a drain on the NHS which is pretty insultung to say the least . In any event unless the young migrants to which you refer only stay for a comparatively short period of time they will also become elderly and use the NHS . Would you ( to use your terminology ) also consider them to be a drain on the NHS. You might also bear in mind that a section of the elderly ( or their estates ) pay inheritance tax and probably pay in more than they take out . Not all migrants are net contributors . On a percentage basis you will find that migrants from certain regions are over represented as a percent of the prison population. It is possible that inmigration in limited numbers and of the right type of pwrson may bring short term benefits to the economy . However if there are other underlying issues such as failure to train sufficient members of the current uk population in key skilled areas , we should be addressing these issues , not relying on imported labour to provide a temporary solution . which regions are you referring to about the prison population ? I am referring to certain countries and I am sure that you already know the ones to which I am referring.." Nn because as usual you are being vague on specifics. So be honest which group are you refering to and what is your source or is it once again your opinion with no factual baris? | |||
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"A lot to tackle here so for now, due to lack of time I'll just sort out the migrant/60 year olds using the NHS. The thread was on immigrants coming over here taking from us, not contributing etc etc. People are net contributors to the system when they are paying taxes in and not using resources. When we are young we use the education system but we are not earning, not paying taxes in to the system. For most of our working life we pay in and because we are young and healthy we don't use the nhs as much. The dynamic changes as we reach pensionable age. We are an ageing population. That costs. The migrants tend not to be children or 60 year olds coming over to use the NHS. They are young, motivated, hard working net contributors. They add to society not take away. We need them. The poster in question misunderstood or wilfully misrepresented my posts several times, used personally directed insulting language, got himself banned - twice - and had a thread deleted. Then put more misrepresentations of my views on another thread that got closed before I could respond. So he now has his response. At no point did I suggest uk citizens are not entitled to use the NHS. I even put it in capitals. However you still referred to 60 year olds as being a drain on the NHS which is pretty insultung to say the least . In any event unless the young migrants to which you refer only stay for a comparatively short period of time they will also become elderly and use the NHS . Would you ( to use your terminology ) also consider them to be a drain on the NHS. You might also bear in mind that a section of the elderly ( or their estates ) pay inheritance tax and probably pay in more than they take out . Not all migrants are net contributors . On a percentage basis you will find that migrants from certain regions are over represented as a percent of the prison population. It is possible that inmigration in limited numbers and of the right type of pwrson may bring short term benefits to the economy . However if there are other underlying issues such as failure to train sufficient members of the current uk population in key skilled areas , we should be addressing these issues , not relying on imported labour to provide a temporary solution . which regions are you referring to about the prison population ? I am referring to certain countries and I am sure that you already know the ones to which I am referring.. Nn because as usual you are being vague on specifics. So be honest which group are you refering to and what is your source or is it once again your opinion with no factual baris?" I am certain that you are quite capable of looking up the statistics and analysing them yourself . If the statistics are quoted some people become offended , make accusations of racism and complain non stop. Interestingly you do not require other members to name the source of their opinions . If you are that desperate for the source buy a newspaper each day and you will be kept informed. | |||
"Yes, THAT does.
Makes me look pretty stupid.
However do you really believe it can be conditional when Corbyn has listed conditions and said he will oppose the government if they don't have these aims?
For me he is trying to say that these are not only the aims the government should have, he believes they are the aims the government will have.
Davis and Bojo, based on their utterances on trade deal wish lists, certainly would like that full single market access. Clearly from her pre referendum private speech to Goldman Sachs, the single market full access is a major wish for Teresa May too.
The problem for them is, at least in Davis and Mays case (boris has no real conviction on anything beyond what is politically expedient as far as I can see) they are very keen on damaging our econo er I mean cracking down on immigration.
So unless a unique solution to that can be found, it will require a choice.
I think if the Tories choose immigration control over single market Labour will oppose.
What do you think?"It is difficult to see how there can be any correlation between restricting immigration and damage to the economy . Both of the MPs to which you refer are exceptionally capable politicans and I am certain beyond all manner of doubt that neither of them would take any measure to damage the economy . It is difficult to see how uncontrolled immigration can bring any long term benefit to the UK economy. Even people of non UK origin support inmigration control. Where we have labour issues the solution is not to import cheap labour but to tackle the underlying issues. i.e. greater training , automation and analysing if all the tasks undertaken are actually necessary. | |||
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"You dont like migrants thats evident. Most people back up their own claims,bit of a clue in 'their' for you. Else its only tosh or blatant prejudice when one fails again to do so. " It seems to me that you are very ill informed . In any event youv know nothing about the individuals with whom I either mix with or work with on a daily basis . Strangely none have ever complained about my attitude of how I treat them. That might be because I treat everyone with respect . The same can hardly be said about you . You refer to posters comments as Tosh and make assumptions about them despite knowing nothing about their background . I do however accept that people with your attitude will always exist . Hopefully I will never have to resort to calling other posters comments Tosh or make ill informed comments about whether someone dislikes immigrants . As ever , comments of this nature are a reflection on the poster of the comment are not the recipient . I consider some of your comments just to be blatant bullying . | |||
"You dont like migrants thats evident. Most people back up their own claims,bit of a clue in 'their' for you. Else its only tosh or blatant prejudice when one fails again to do so. It seems to me that you are very ill informed . In any event youv know nothing about the individuals with whom I either mix with or work with on a daily basis . Strangely none have ever complained about my attitude of how I treat them. That might be because I treat everyone with respect . The same can hardly be said about you . You refer to posters comments as Tosh and make assumptions about them despite knowing nothing about their background . I do however accept that people with your attitude will always exist . Hopefully I will never have to resort to calling other posters comments Tosh or make ill informed comments about whether someone dislikes immigrants . As ever , comments of this nature are a reflection on the poster of the comment are not the recipient . I consider some of your comments just to be blatant bullying ." it seems to me that once again you are stating something negative about migrants and when asked to clarify your source you then duck it by saying 'you look it up', its your statement you said it so own it and back it up else its just an opinion.. you have previous of doing similar again with migrants and then downplaying what you stated to the point where it was only an opinion and then bleating on other threads that anyone who questions your point of view is narrow minded.. if your so sensitive then either don't state facts then fail to back them up when reasonably asked where you get them from.. ducking and diving and whining that your being bullied, please.. its a public forum and if anyone states something that other's deem to be derogatory they are entitled to question said, in fact you do it often so merely apply the same standards to your own input as you expect others to do with theirs maybe.. also one can reasonably call another posters tosh on the basis that what they have posted is tosh without wanting to or indeed being interested in whom they know or their background, lets be honest one can lie about such things.. open and public discourse is not bullying, if you feel it is then drop an email to the mods perhaps.. playing the 'I'm being picked upon because someone reasonably expects me to validate my statement on a public forum and I wont or cant do so' is an interesting slant.. | |||
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"to add, debate is healthy and whilst some of us will never agree with another's position we can by engaging in debate on a subject at least agree to disagree on the specific issue. When the debate ends up being stifled by one party not wanting to address area's they have stated and other's have challenged but then they the one statin x, or z ducks the issue or wont continue to engage then that's not conducive to debate.. sometimes by knowing where we all differ or stand on a particular subject we can as individuals begin to get to understand the other party and maybe by knowing such things and putting that one thing to one side we can either break down the differences.. just a thought.." I can only re iterate that it is only a bully will refer to another members post as tosh . I prefer to treat people with respect . Posters only use terms such as tosh if they have nothing constructive to say , There is no requirement to quote the source of documentation on any post . Some posters quote so much source documentation that their posts are nothing short of boring and in any event who would ever check back to the original source . The source documentation concerning prisoners was readily available for you to see had you wanted to check it out . I am certain that you are capable of using google search . If it helps all the relevant information was published in a National newspaper . I did not even express an opinion on the article , I simply made a statement of fact concerning certain percentages . To make a statement that someone does not like immigrants without providing one single piece of evidence is hardly either good manners or acceptable . You have no knowledge of either my background or with whom I mix . Probably because I treat everyone with whom I come into contact fairly , I have no need to be censured by individuals such as yourself . I work full time in a multi culture office and in addition run a small business . Many of the contacts in this business are of non UK origin and in some cases the relation with them has lasted in excess of ten years . They are educated professional people and would not accept the type of behaviour which you are insinuating . It may come as a surprise to you that some people of non UK origin also support border controls . | |||
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"to add, debate is healthy and whilst some of us will never agree with another's position we can by engaging in debate on a subject at least agree to disagree on the specific issue. When the debate ends up being stifled by one party not wanting to address area's they have stated and other's have challenged but then they the one statin x, or z ducks the issue or wont continue to engage then that's not conducive to debate.. sometimes by knowing where we all differ or stand on a particular subject we can as individuals begin to get to understand the other party and maybe by knowing such things and putting that one thing to one side we can either break down the differences.. just a thought.. I can only re iterate that it is only a bully will refer to another members post as tosh . I prefer to treat people with respect . Posters only use terms such as tosh if they have nothing constructive to say , There is no requirement to quote the source of documentation on any post . Some posters quote so much source documentation that their posts are nothing short of boring and in any event who would ever check back to the original source . The source documentation concerning prisoners was readily available for you to see had you wanted to check it out . I am certain that you are capable of using google search . If it helps all the relevant information was published in a National newspaper . I did not even express an opinion on the article , I simply made a statement of fact concerning certain percentages . To make a statement that someone does not like immigrants without providing one single piece of evidence is hardly either good manners or acceptable . You have no knowledge of either my background or with whom I mix . Probably because I treat everyone with whom I come into contact fairly , I have no need to be censured by individuals such as yourself . I work full time in a multi culture office and in addition run a small business . Many of the contacts in this business are of non UK origin and in some cases the relation with them has lasted in excess of ten years . They are educated professional people and would not accept the type of behaviour which you are insinuating . It may come as a surprise to you that some people of non UK origin also support border controls . " more tosh eh.. | |||
"to add, debate is healthy and whilst some of us will never agree with another's position we can by engaging in debate on a subject at least agree to disagree on the specific issue. When the debate ends up being stifled by one party not wanting to address area's they have stated and other's have challenged but then they the one statin x, or z ducks the issue or wont continue to engage then that's not conducive to debate.. sometimes by knowing where we all differ or stand on a particular subject we can as individuals begin to get to understand the other party and maybe by knowing such things and putting that one thing to one side we can either break down the differences.. just a thought.. I can only re iterate that it is only a bully will refer to another members post as tosh . I prefer to treat people with respect . Posters only use terms such as tosh if they have nothing constructive to say , There is no requirement to quote the source of documentation on any post . Some posters quote so much source documentation that their posts are nothing short of boring and in any event who would ever check back to the original source . The source documentation concerning prisoners was readily available for you to see had you wanted to check it out . I am certain that you are capable of using google search . If it helps all the relevant information was published in a National newspaper . I did not even express an opinion on the article , I simply made a statement of fact concerning certain percentages . To make a statement that someone does not like immigrants without providing one single piece of evidence is hardly either good manners or acceptable . You have no knowledge of either my background or with whom I mix . Probably because I treat everyone with whom I come into contact fairly , I have no need to be censured by individuals such as yourself . I work full time in a multi culture office and in addition run a small business . Many of the contacts in this business are of non UK origin and in some cases the relation with them has lasted in excess of ten years . They are educated professional people and would not accept the type of behaviour which you are insinuating . It may come as a surprise to you that some people of non UK origin also support border controls . more tosh eh.. "with hindsight I withdraw that, bit flippant.. the logic I think your using is that if someone where to state that all landlords were rachmanesque tyrants who let their tenants live in complete hovels than if they were rightly asked to validate that then they could simply say you go and look it up.. when further asked to validate their own claims they could then say well its my opinion because of whom I associate with and you cant say anything to refute what I say as that is bullying.. btw, that was just an example.. | |||
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"The response to Mrs May on her trade trip to India over the weekend was interesting (Incidentally, why us she even there...where are her assigned trade ministers?)......India was quite clear to May that any significant future trade deals MUST include provision for increased movement of people into the UK." MP Liam Fox international trade secretary went with Theresa May to India (he was clearly shown exiting the plane with her when they arrived in India on the news). | |||
"Nothing clever about this ! The referendum wasn't about staying in the single market ! It was in or out ! Simples "Im pretty sure it was about staying in or out of the EU actually. | |||
"Nothing clever about this ! The referendum wasn't about staying in the single market ! It was in or out ! Simples
Im pretty sure it was about staying in or out of the EU actually."which means in or out of the single market too actually. And thats what we voted for. Or was Cameron lying to the nation about that? | |||
"MP Liam Fox international trade secretary went with Theresa May to India (he was clearly shown exiting the plane with her when they arrived in India on the news). " that will explain why Mrs Maygabe's trip was such an utter fiasco then | |||
"Nothing clever about this ! The referendum wasn't about staying in the single market ! It was in or out ! Simples
Im pretty sure it was about staying in or out of the EU actually.
which means in or out of the single market too actually. And thats what we voted for. Or was Cameron lying to the nation about that?"Sorry, but they are two separate things. You really should pay a little bit more attention. | |||
"MP Liam Fox international trade secretary went with Theresa May to India (he was clearly shown exiting the plane with her when they arrived in India on the news). that will explain why Mrs Maygabe's trip was such an utter fiasco then" No explanation as to why you think it was a fiasco then? No evidence and no substance to what you say just empty rhetoric. | |||
"Nothing clever about this ! The referendum wasn't about staying in the single market ! It was in or out ! Simples
Im pretty sure it was about staying in or out of the EU actually.
which means in or out of the single market too actually. And thats what we voted for. Or was Cameron lying to the nation about that?
Sorry, but they are two separate things. You really should pay a little bit more attention. "Not according to David Cameron, he said to leave the EU means we also leave the single market. He said it on national television more than once during the months of the referendum. Where were you at the time, I'm amazed if you didn't see it? | |||
"That is a good question. Corbyn is distinguishing Labour from the Lib Dems and Owen Smiths approach to ignore/reverse the vote. They will not oppose leaving the EU. There vision is to leave the EU but retain full access to the single market, retain workers rights, not put unrealistic quotas on immigration but work with Europe to address these concerns across the other EU countries. But It says on sky news now a Labour party source close to Corbyn says it's support for leaving the EU is unconditional. That means no strings attached, no conditions to meet, which means your OP about staying in the single market was frankly a load of bollocks. " Turns out the Labour party 'source' close to Corbyn who said Labour support for leaving the EU is 'unconditional' was the deputy leader Tom Watson. | |||
"No explanation as to why you think it was a fiasco then? No evidence and no substance to what you say just empty rhetoric. " none needed ... seems you think mrs maygabe and liam cock being told accept free movement of billions of indians or fuck off is a resounding success | |||
"No explanation as to why you think it was a fiasco then? No evidence and no substance to what you say just empty rhetoric. none needed ... seems you think mrs maygabe and liam cock being told accept free movement of billions of indians or fuck off is a resounding success" Which news channel have you been watching? Was it the Micky Mouse news channel (seems about your level), because what you just said is not actually what happened. | |||
"Which news channel have you been watching? Was it the Micky Mouse news channel (seems about your level), because what you just said is not actually what happened. " that's exactly what happened | |||
"Which news channel have you been watching? Was it the Micky Mouse news channel (seems about your level), because what you just said is not actually what happened. that's exactly what happened " even james dyson is begging her to do a u-turn lol ..... Mygabe and her trade deal ministers are a shower of shit at the moment | |||
"to add, debate is healthy and whilst some of us will never agree with another's position we can by engaging in debate on a subject at least agree to disagree on the specific issue. When the debate ends up being stifled by one party not wanting to address area's they have stated and other's have challenged but then they the one statin x, or z ducks the issue or wont continue to engage then that's not conducive to debate.. sometimes by knowing where we all differ or stand on a particular subject we can as individuals begin to get to understand the other party and maybe by knowing such things and putting that one thing to one side we can either break down the differences.. just a thought.. I can only re iterate that it is only a bully will refer to another members post as tosh . I prefer to treat people with respect . Posters only use terms such as tosh if they have nothing constructive to say , There is no requirement to quote the source of documentation on any post . Some posters quote so much source documentation that their posts are nothing short of boring and in any event who would ever check back to the original source . The source documentation concerning prisoners was readily available for you to see had you wanted to check it out . I am certain that you are capable of using google search . If it helps all the relevant information was published in a National newspaper . I did not even express an opinion on the article , I simply made a statement of fact concerning certain percentages . To make a statement that someone does not like immigrants without providing one single piece of evidence is hardly either good manners or acceptable . You have no knowledge of either my background or with whom I mix . Probably because I treat everyone with whom I come into contact fairly , I have no need to be censured by individuals such as yourself . I work full time in a multi culture office and in addition run a small business . Many of the contacts in this business are of non UK origin and in some cases the relation with them has lasted in excess of ten years . They are educated professional people and would not accept the type of behaviour which you are insinuating . It may come as a surprise to you that some people of non UK origin also support border controls . more tosh eh..
with hindsight I withdraw that, bit flippant..
the logic I think your using is that if someone where to state that all landlords were rachmanesque tyrants who let their tenants live in complete hovels than if they were rightly asked to validate that then they could simply say you go and look it up..
when further asked to validate their own claims they could then say well its my opinion because of whom I associate with and you cant say anything to refute what I say as that is bullying..
btw, that was just an example.."I think that in your case where you are unable to add any constructice points , you then sinply say that a post is tosh. Using such commemts is both ill mannered and unnecessary . In addition it is a reflection on the author , not the recipient . It is sumply a bullying tactic. It is difficult to see what else referring to a post as tosh could be. I like to be well mannered and can never think of any post where I have referred to someones post as being tosh. If I have nothing to add , I prefer to refrain from commenting . | |||
"Nothing clever about this ! The referendum wasn't about staying in the single market ! It was in or out ! Simples
Im pretty sure it was about staying in or out of the EU actually.
which means in or out of the single market too actually. And thats what we voted for. Or was Cameron lying to the nation about that?
Sorry, but they are two separate things. You really should pay a little bit more attention. "David Cameron on the Andrew Marr show on 12th June 2016: “What the British public will be voting for is to leave the EU and leave the single market.” What part of that don't you understand? Or was Cameron lying? | |||
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"No explanation as to why you think it was a fiasco then? No evidence and no substance to what you say just empty rhetoric. none needed ... seems you think mrs maygabe and liam cock being told accept free movement of billions of indians or fuck off is a resounding success" | |||
"Nothing clever about this ! The referendum wasn't about staying in the single market ! It was in or out ! Simples
Im pretty sure it was about staying in or out of the EU actually.
which means in or out of the single market too actually. And thats what we voted for. Or was Cameron lying to the nation about that?
Sorry, but they are two separate things. You really should pay a little bit more attention.
David Cameron on the Andrew Marr show on 12th June 2016: “What the British public will be voting for is to leave the EU and leave the single market.”
What part of that don't you understand?
Or was Cameron lying?"He was certainly technically incorrect. However the important thing is that he was responding to the misleading impression Leave Campaigns were fostering that the trading part of our relationship with Europe AND be able to stop the free movement of labour. | |||
"Nothing clever about this ! The referendum wasn't about staying in the single market ! It was in or out ! Simples
Im pretty sure it was about staying in or out of the EU actually.
which means in or out of the single market too actually. And thats what we voted for. Or was Cameron lying to the nation about that?
Sorry, but they are two separate things. You really should pay a little bit more attention.
David Cameron on the Andrew Marr show on 12th June 2016: “What the British public will be voting for is to leave the EU and leave the single market.”
What part of that don't you understand?
Or was Cameron lying?
He was certainly technically incorrect.
However the important thing is that he was responding to the misleading impression Leave Campaigns were fostering that the trading part of our relationship with Europe AND be able to stop the free movement of labour. "Technically incorrect? In which case the £350M per week was technically correct. Thank you for clearing that up for everyone. | |||
"to add, debate is healthy and whilst some of us will never agree with another's position we can by engaging in debate on a subject at least agree to disagree on the specific issue. When the debate ends up being stifled by one party not wanting to address area's they have stated and other's have challenged but then they the one statin x, or z ducks the issue or wont continue to engage then that's not conducive to debate.. sometimes by knowing where we all differ or stand on a particular subject we can as individuals begin to get to understand the other party and maybe by knowing such things and putting that one thing to one side we can either break down the differences.. just a thought.. I can only re iterate that it is only a bully will refer to another members post as tosh . I prefer to treat people with respect . Posters only use terms such as tosh if they have nothing constructive to say , There is no requirement to quote the source of documentation on any post . Some posters quote so much source documentation that their posts are nothing short of boring and in any event who would ever check back to the original source . The source documentation concerning prisoners was readily available for you to see had you wanted to check it out . I am certain that you are capable of using google search . If it helps all the relevant information was published in a National newspaper . I did not even express an opinion on the article , I simply made a statement of fact concerning certain percentages . To make a statement that someone does not like immigrants without providing one single piece of evidence is hardly either good manners or acceptable . You have no knowledge of either my background or with whom I mix . Probably because I treat everyone with whom I come into contact fairly , I have no need to be censured by individuals such as yourself . I work full time in a multi culture office and in addition run a small business . Many of the contacts in this business are of non UK origin and in some cases the relation with them has lasted in excess of ten years . They are educated professional people and would not accept the type of behaviour which you are insinuating . It may come as a surprise to you that some people of non UK origin also support border controls . more tosh eh..
with hindsight I withdraw that, bit flippant..
the logic I think your using is that if someone where to state that all landlords were rachmanesque tyrants who let their tenants live in complete hovels than if they were rightly asked to validate that then they could simply say you go and look it up..
when further asked to validate their own claims they could then say well its my opinion because of whom I associate with and you cant say anything to refute what I say as that is bullying..
btw, that was just an example.. I think that in your case where you are unable to add any constructice points , you then sinply say that a post is tosh.
Using such commemts is both ill mannered and unnecessary . In addition it is a reflection on the author , not the recipient . It is sumply a bullying tactic. It is difficult to see what else referring to a post as tosh could be.
I like to be well mannered and can never think of any post where I have referred to someones post as being tosh.
If I have nothing to add , I prefer to refrain from commenting . "Stop with the false outrage. Accept that your logic is flawed and if you continue to not validate your own facts then on an open forum youll be challenged. Your failure to address it only highlights your arrogance. | |||
"Nothing clever about this ! The referendum wasn't about staying in the single market ! It was in or out ! Simples
Im pretty sure it was about staying in or out of the EU actually.
which means in or out of the single market too actually. And thats what we voted for. Or was Cameron lying to the nation about that?
Sorry, but they are two separate things. You really should pay a little bit more attention.
David Cameron on the Andrew Marr show on 12th June 2016: “What the British public will be voting for is to leave the EU and leave the single market.”
What part of that don't you understand?
Or was Cameron lying?
He was certainly technically incorrect.
However the important thing is that he was responding to the misleading impression Leave Campaigns were fostering that the trading part of our relationship with Europe AND be able to stop the free movement of labour. "German industry giants are currently lobbying Angela Merkel to give Britain a favourable trade deal and also give Britain concessions on free movement of people. It seems German business leaders don't agree with your assessment of the situation. | |||
"Nothing clever about this ! The referendum wasn't about staying in the single market ! It was in or out ! Simples
Im pretty sure it was about staying in or out of the EU actually.
which means in or out of the single market too actually. And thats what we voted for. Or was Cameron lying to the nation about that?
Sorry, but they are two separate things. You really should pay a little bit more attention.
David Cameron on the Andrew Marr show on 12th June 2016: “What the British public will be voting for is to leave the EU and leave the single market.”
What part of that don't you understand?
Or was Cameron lying?
He was certainly technically incorrect.
However the important thing is that he was responding to the misleading impression Leave Campaigns were fostering that the trading part of our relationship with Europe AND be able to stop the free movement of labour.
German industry giants are currently lobbying Angela Merkel to give Britain a favourable trade deal and also give Britain concessions on free movement of people. It seems German business leaders don't agree with your assessment of the situation. "The leaders of the other 27 member states have already signed a joint declaration stating that there will be not concessions on the 4 freedoms. | |||
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"I wonder how many of the other countries want us to stay or go ? Genuine ? I haven't a clue on the answer ? " Hard to say, but my friends here in Spain, who are of various EU nationalities seem to be sorry that we are leaving, I think the French though will be glad to see the back of us. | |||
"I wonder how many of the other countries want us to stay or go ? Genuine ? I haven't a clue on the answer ? " Well how many world leaders publicly said it was a bad idea to leave, and how many publicly said it was a good idea? Not one said it was a good idea to leave. | |||
" Or was Cameron lying? He was certainly technically incorrect. However the important thing is that he was responding to the misleading impression Leave Campaigns were fostering that the trading part of our relationship with Europe AND be able to stop the free movement of labour. Technically incorrect? In which case the £350M per week was technically correct. Thank you for clearing that up for everyone." The £350m was a lie. It was factually incorrect about something that was already happening and measurable. As for Cameron, the issue of immigration control became the main topic of conversation at various times in the election. So if Cameron's comments were in that context ie if the primary aim of leaving the EU was to restrict the freedom of movement, then it does almost certainly mean we would have to leave the single market. That's not really a lie. Some Leave campaigners suggested we could get our own unique deal however. But it is wrong to say that leaving the EU absolutely means leaving the single market because there are several countries, such as Norway and Switzerland, who are part og the single market and not part of the EU. | |||
"I wonder how many of the other countries want us to stay or go ? Genuine ? I haven't a clue on the answer ? Well how many world leaders publicly said it was a bad idea to leave, and how many publicly said it was a good idea? Not one said it was a good idea to leave. " Except Putin. | |||
"to add, debate is healthy and whilst some of us will never agree with another's position we can by engaging in debate on a subject at least agree to disagree on the specific issue. When the debate ends up being stifled by one party not wanting to address area's they have stated and other's have challenged but then they the one statin x, or z ducks the issue or wont continue to engage then that's not conducive to debate.. sometimes by knowing where we all differ or stand on a particular subject we can as individuals begin to get to understand the other party and maybe by knowing such things and putting that one thing to one side we can either break down the differences.. just a thought.. I can only re iterate that it is only a bully will refer to another members post as tosh . I prefer to treat people with respect . Posters only use terms such as tosh if they have nothing constructive to say , There is no requirement to quote the source of documentation on any post . Some posters quote so much source documentation that their posts are nothing short of boring and in any event who would ever check back to the original source . The source documentation concerning prisoners was readily available for you to see had you wanted to check it out . I am certain that you are capable of using google search . If it helps all the relevant information was published in a National newspaper . I did not even express an opinion on the article , I simply made a statement of fact concerning certain percentages . To make a statement that someone does not like immigrants without providing one single piece of evidence is hardly either good manners or acceptable . You have no knowledge of either my background or with whom I mix . Probably because I treat everyone with whom I come into contact fairly , I have no need to be censured by individuals such as yourself . I work full time in a multi culture office and in addition run a small business . Many of the contacts in this business are of non UK origin and in some cases the relation with them has lasted in excess of ten years . They are educated professional people and would not accept the type of behaviour which you are insinuating . It may come as a surprise to you that some people of non UK origin also support border controls . more tosh eh..
with hindsight I withdraw that, bit flippant..
the logic I think your using is that if someone where to state that all landlords were rachmanesque tyrants who let their tenants live in complete hovels than if they were rightly asked to validate that then they could simply say you go and look it up..
when further asked to validate their own claims they could then say well its my opinion because of whom I associate with and you cant say anything to refute what I say as that is bullying..
btw, that was just an example.. I think that in your case where you are unable to add any constructice points , you then sinply say that a post is tosh.
Using such commemts is both ill mannered and unnecessary . In addition it is a reflection on the author , not the recipient . It is sumply a bullying tactic. It is difficult to see what else referring to a post as tosh could be.
I like to be well mannered and can never think of any post where I have referred to someones post as being tosh.
If I have nothing to add , I prefer to refrain from commenting .
Stop with the false outrage. Accept that your logic is flawed and if you continue to not validate your own facts then on an open forum youll be challenged.
Your failure to address it only highlights your arrogance.
"Maybe I should remind you that this is a public forum where everyone expresses opinions which is what one expects . However referring to a posters post as tosh on a number of different occasions without any valid reason or explanation is simply displaying ignorance and a lack of manners . Many posters disagree with my posts ( which is to be expected as it is a debating forum ) . However none of them have referred to a post as being tosh . There is generally a nasty undertone to your comment when you reply to my post whether it is in the political forum or any other unrelated topic . I don't have any real issue with a post being referred to as tosh or nasty comments being made as these are a reflection on the author of the post , not the recipient . I prefer to be an individual who achieves things in life - not someone who creates problems . In one recent comment on the health service , part of the content of the post is now being implemented but you still saw fit to describe it as tosh . On another post you referred to me as being naïve and proceeded to list numerous cases . In this case I had vast experience in the area concerned ( which was a highly specialised topic ) but you still saw fit to use the term naïve . In another post you seemed to think that there imply that there was no need investigate the use of / misuse of mobility allowances / vehicles . This is another area of special interest to me as I provide and have done for the last 26 years extensive assistance to someone who is disabled . I can however accept that all of the above relate to a lack of manners and an attempt to bully . What I do not accept is that you have any right to state that I ( referring to me ) do not like foreigners . You were unable to produce any evidence to attempt to justify this opinion . I consider your opinion on this occasion to be that of a zealot and of someone who is both pious and self righteous . You for reasons best known to yourself seem to think the people of non UK origin are unable to express opinions themselves and resort to doing it yourself on their behalf . I consider such an attitude to be both patronising and condescending . While I should not be required to defend my position on an internet forum , I will re state for your benefit that I mix with people of non UK origin every day both at work and in relation to a small business which I run . Maybe because I mix with these people on a day to day basis I am better placed to comment on some of the topics than you are . To conclude I have never resorted to referring to anyones post as being tosh Use of such a word displays a lack of self control and an inability to express a valid point . Making personal comments about a poster ( and especially without knowing anything about the posters background ) is of course completely unacceptable . Even after I explained in detail the people with whom I mixed on a day to day basis you simply said that I might be making that up . The point of these forums is to allow members to express an opinion , not to make either derogatory or untrue accusations . | |||
"to add, debate is healthy and whilst some of us will never agree with another's position we can by engaging in debate on a subject at least agree to disagree on the specific issue. When the debate ends up being stifled by one party not wanting to address area's they have stated and other's have challenged but then they the one statin x, or z ducks the issue or wont continue to engage then that's not conducive to debate.. sometimes by knowing where we all differ or stand on a particular subject we can as individuals begin to get to understand the other party and maybe by knowing such things and putting that one thing to one side we can either break down the differences.. just a thought.. I can only re iterate that it is only a bully will refer to another members post as tosh . I prefer to treat people with respect . Posters only use terms such as tosh if they have nothing constructive to say , There is no requirement to quote the source of documentation on any post . Some posters quote so much source documentation that their posts are nothing short of boring and in any event who would ever check back to the original source . The source documentation concerning prisoners was readily available for you to see had you wanted to check it out . I am certain that you are capable of using google search . If it helps all the relevant information was published in a National newspaper . I did not even express an opinion on the article , I simply made a statement of fact concerning certain percentages . To make a statement that someone does not like immigrants without providing one single piece of evidence is hardly either good manners or acceptable . You have no knowledge of either my background or with whom I mix . Probably because I treat everyone with whom I come into contact fairly , I have no need to be censured by individuals such as yourself . I work full time in a multi culture office and in addition run a small business . Many of the contacts in this business are of non UK origin and in some cases the relation with them has lasted in excess of ten years . They are educated professional people and would not accept the type of behaviour which you are insinuating . It may come as a surprise to you that some people of non UK origin also support border controls . more tosh eh..
with hindsight I withdraw that, bit flippant..
the logic I think your using is that if someone where to state that all landlords were rachmanesque tyrants who let their tenants live in complete hovels than if they were rightly asked to validate that then they could simply say you go and look it up..
when further asked to validate their own claims they could then say well its my opinion because of whom I associate with and you cant say anything to refute what I say as that is bullying..
btw, that was just an example.. I think that in your case where you are unable to add any constructice points , you then sinply say that a post is tosh.
Using such commemts is both ill mannered and unnecessary . In addition it is a reflection on the author , not the recipient . It is sumply a bullying tactic. It is difficult to see what else referring to a post as tosh could be.
I like to be well mannered and can never think of any post where I have referred to someones post as being tosh.
If I have nothing to add , I prefer to refrain from commenting .
Stop with the false outrage. Accept that your logic is flawed and if you continue to not validate your own facts then on an open forum youll be challenged.
Your failure to address it only highlights your arrogance.
Maybe I should remind you that this is a public forum where everyone expresses opinions which is what one expects .
However referring to a posters post as tosh on a number of different occasions without any valid reason or explanation is
simply displaying ignorance and a lack of manners .
Many posters disagree with my posts ( which is to be expected as it is a debating forum ) . However none of them have referred to a post as being tosh .
There is generally a nasty undertone to your comment when you reply to my post whether it is in the political forum or any other unrelated topic .
I don't have any real issue with a post being referred to as tosh or nasty comments being made as these are a reflection on the author of the post , not the recipient .
I prefer to be an individual who achieves things in life - not someone who creates problems . In one recent comment on the health service , part of the content of the post is now being implemented but you still saw fit to describe it as tosh . On another post you referred to me as being naïve and proceeded to list numerous cases . In this case I had vast experience in the area concerned ( which was a highly specialised topic ) but you still saw fit to use the term naïve . In another post you seemed to think that there imply that there was no need investigate the use of / misuse of mobility allowances / vehicles . This is another area of special interest to me as I provide and have done for the last 26 years extensive assistance to someone who is disabled .
I can however accept that all of the above relate to a lack of manners and an attempt to bully .
What I do not accept is that you have any right to state that I ( referring to me ) do not like foreigners .
You were unable to produce any evidence to attempt to justify this opinion . I consider your opinion on this occasion to be that of a zealot and of someone who is both pious and self righteous .
You for reasons best known to yourself seem to think the people of non UK origin are unable to express opinions themselves and resort to doing it yourself on their behalf . I consider such an attitude to be both patronising and condescending .
While I should not be required to defend my position on an internet forum , I will re state for your benefit that I mix with people of non UK origin every day both at work and in relation to a small business which I run .
Maybe because I mix with these people on a day to day basis I am better placed to comment on some of the topics than you are .
To conclude I have never resorted to referring to anyones post as being tosh
Use of such a word displays a lack of self control and an inability to express a valid point .
Making personal comments about a poster ( and especially without knowing anything about the posters background ) is of course completely unacceptable .
Even after I explained in detail the people with whom I mixed on a day to day basis you simply said that I might be making that up .
The point of these forums is to allow members to express an opinion , not to make either derogatory or untrue accusations .
"several of the 'examples' you refer to are frankly not known to me so either provide a link on here lest they look a bit like lies.. its only since the politics forum was started that I have after asking you to validate such claims by a source or point to refer to which you patently and consistently avoid.. Even down to saying you look it up, again as you are diverting from this point when you state something as a fact on an open and public forum you either back it up yourself or it has no credibility.. saying to others who seek where you are getting your facts from is a cop out and as you keep doing it then yes I am comfortable in saying where relevant that such a claim is tosh.. when an opinion is an opinion then fine, but what you do is start it as a fact and the change it to 'its my opinion' so it cant be challenged.. not foreigners Pat, migrants and in particular where you said that you knew that migrants do not contribute to their local economy which anyone with any sense knows is rubbish.. your inference was that they send all their money home, when asked how you knew this you went down your route of diminishing validation till it was your opinion and that you know many of them.. you were comparing them to Brits working in the middle east and you also said you know how they spend their money too, amazing that you know all these people.. you then state again migrants Pat not 'foreign' from a region then changed to a country are amongst one of the biggest percentages of inmates in our prisons.. when asked what the source is you reply by saying look it up.. again your 'facts', you validate them or they are tosh.. and as the only commonality with such things is migrants what does one garner from that.. people seeing derogatory comments toward one grouping by one individual will only rightly assume that the individual has a prejudice.. if I have referred to you as naïve that is based on your posts on here which I'm probably not alone in thinking however that can be said for many of us myself included so it goes with the territory.. and stop talking bollocks about lack of control in the use of a word, show some control of your own point of view and validate what you state are facts maybe.. I would suggest that we will not agree on this so perhaps we can agree to disagree and leave it at that.. | |||
"If the government don't guarantee access to the single market. Get in. At last some proper opposition from Mr Corbyn. "Corbin would oppose the opening of an envelope, its all that he knows | |||
"I wonder how many of the other countries want us to stay or go ? Genuine ? I haven't a clue on the answer ? Well how many world leaders publicly said it was a bad idea to leave, and how many publicly said it was a good idea? Not one said it was a good idea to leave. Except Putin." ....and now the new President of the USA Donald Trump. | |||
"to add, debate is healthy and whilst some of us will never agree with another's position we can by engaging in debate on a subject at least agree to disagree on the specific issue. When the debate ends up being stifled by one party not wanting to address area's they have stated and other's have challenged but then they the one statin x, or z ducks the issue or wont continue to engage then that's not conducive to debate.. sometimes by knowing where we all differ or stand on a particular subject we can as individuals begin to get to understand the other party and maybe by knowing such things and putting that one thing to one side we can either break down the differences.. just a thought.. I can only re iterate that it is only a bully will refer to another members post as tosh . I prefer to treat people with respect . Posters only use terms such as tosh if they have nothing constructive to say , There is no requirement to quote the source of documentation on any post . Some posters quote so much source documentation that their posts are nothing short of boring and in any event who would ever check back to the original source . The source documentation concerning prisoners was readily available for you to see had you wanted to check it out . I am certain that you are capable of using google search . If it helps all the relevant information was published in a National newspaper . I did not even express an opinion on the article , I simply made a statement of fact concerning certain percentages . To make a statement that someone does not like immigrants without providing one single piece of evidence is hardly either good manners or acceptable . You have no knowledge of either my background or with whom I mix . Probably because I treat everyone with whom I come into contact fairly , I have no need to be censured by individuals such as yourself . I work full time in a multi culture office and in addition run a small business . Many of the contacts in this business are of non UK origin and in some cases the relation with them has lasted in excess of ten years . They are educated professional people and would not accept the type of behaviour which you are insinuating . It may come as a surprise to you that some people of non UK origin also support border controls . more tosh eh..
with hindsight I withdraw that, bit flippant..
the logic I think your using is that if someone where to state that all landlords were rachmanesque tyrants who let their tenants live in complete hovels than if they were rightly asked to validate that then they could simply say you go and look it up..
when further asked to validate their own claims they could then say well its my opinion because of whom I associate with and you cant say anything to refute what I say as that is bullying..
btw, that was just an example.. I think that in your case where you are unable to add any constructice points , you then sinply say that a post is tosh.
Using such commemts is both ill mannered and unnecessary . In addition it is a reflection on the author , not the recipient . It is sumply a bullying tactic. It is difficult to see what else referring to a post as tosh could be.
I like to be well mannered and can never think of any post where I have referred to someones post as being tosh.
If I have nothing to add , I prefer to refrain from commenting .
Stop with the false outrage. Accept that your logic is flawed and if you continue to not validate your own facts then on an open forum youll be challenged.
Your failure to address it only highlights your arrogance.
Maybe I should remind you that this is a public forum where everyone expresses opinions which is what one expects .
However referring to a posters post as tosh on a number of different occasions without any valid reason or explanation is
simply displaying ignorance and a lack of manners .
Many posters disagree with my posts ( which is to be expected as it is a debating forum ) . However none of them have referred to a post as being tosh .
There is generally a nasty undertone to your comment when you reply to my post whether it is in the political forum or any other unrelated topic .
I don't have any real issue with a post being referred to as tosh or nasty comments being made as these are a reflection on the author of the post , not the recipient .
I prefer to be an individual who achieves things in life - not someone who creates problems . In one recent comment on the health service , part of the content of the post is now being implemented but you still saw fit to describe it as tosh . On another post you referred to me as being naïve and proceeded to list numerous cases . In this case I had vast experience in the area concerned ( which was a highly specialised topic ) but you still saw fit to use the term naïve . In another post you seemed to think that there imply that there was no need investigate the use of / misuse of mobility allowances / vehicles . This is another area of special interest to me as I provide and have done for the last 26 years extensive assistance to someone who is disabled .
I can however accept that all of the above relate to a lack of manners and an attempt to bully .
What I do not accept is that you have any right to state that I ( referring to me ) do not like foreigners .
You were unable to produce any evidence to attempt to justify this opinion . I consider your opinion on this occasion to be that of a zealot and of someone who is both pious and self righteous .
You for reasons best known to yourself seem to think the people of non UK origin are unable to express opinions themselves and resort to doing it yourself on their behalf . I consider such an attitude to be both patronising and condescending .
While I should not be required to defend my position on an internet forum , I will re state for your benefit that I mix with people of non UK origin every day both at work and in relation to a small business which I run .
Maybe because I mix with these people on a day to day basis I am better placed to comment on some of the topics than you are .
To conclude I have never resorted to referring to anyones post as being tosh
Use of such a word displays a lack of self control and an inability to express a valid point .
Making personal comments about a poster ( and especially without knowing anything about the posters background ) is of course completely unacceptable .
Even after I explained in detail the people with whom I mixed on a day to day basis you simply said that I might be making that up .
The point of these forums is to allow members to express an opinion , not to make either derogatory or untrue accusations .
several of the 'examples' you refer to are frankly not known to me so either provide a link on here lest they look a bit like lies..
its only since the politics forum was started that I have after asking you to validate such claims by a source or point to refer to which you patently and consistently avoid..
Even down to saying you look it up, again as you are diverting from this point when you state something as a fact on an open and public forum you either back it up yourself or it has no credibility..
saying to others who seek where you are getting your facts from is a cop out and as you keep doing it then yes I am comfortable in saying where relevant that such a claim is tosh..
when an opinion is an opinion then fine, but what you do is start it as a fact and the change it to 'its my opinion' so it cant be challenged..
not foreigners Pat, migrants and in particular where you said that you knew that migrants do not contribute to their local economy which anyone with any sense knows is rubbish..
your inference was that they send all their money home, when asked how you knew this you went down your route of diminishing validation till it was your opinion and that you know many of them..
you were comparing them to Brits working in the middle east and you also said you know how they spend their money too, amazing that you know all these people..
you then state again migrants Pat not 'foreign' from a region then changed to a country are amongst one of the biggest percentages of inmates in our prisons..
when asked what the source is you reply by saying look it up..
again your 'facts', you validate them or they are tosh..
and as the only commonality with such things is migrants what does one garner from that..
people seeing derogatory comments toward one grouping by one individual will only rightly assume that the individual has a prejudice..
if I have referred to you as naïve that is based on your posts on here which I'm probably not alone in thinking however that can be said for many of us myself included so it goes with the territory..
and stop talking bollocks about lack of control in the use of a word, show some control of your own point of view and validate what you state are facts maybe..
I would suggest that we will not agree on this so perhaps we can agree to disagree and leave it at that.."In addition to using the term tosh you now incorporate the tem lies ( and this is in addition to stating that someone dislikes migrants without being able to produce any supporting evidence or kn owing the background of the person concerned . I am glad that I have su8fficient self control to avoid making derogatory remarks towards other posters , suggesting that they are liars , or that they dislike migrants . You seem obsessed with distinguishing between fact and opinions . If I was to spend time analysing another posters posts , I would be embarrassed and other posters might consider me to be a stalker . In addition it would be of serious concern to me that I had sufficient time to do this and I would need to start evaluating how I was spending my free time . Not withstanding the fact that I do lots of other things in life , I will take into account the fact that you have for some unexplainable reason decide to trawl through my posts and make various comments on them . I note however you have been careful to avoid mentioning the topic or post being replied to or the context in which the previous [poster posted . I am the only poster from which you required the source of the data in the post to be quoted . On one occasion when some else replied to the question , you simply dismissed it and stated that you wanted the answer from me . The source of all the information would be from national newspapers and my comments would be based on the content of the report ( and as such I would consider the content of my post to be fact ) . Having said that I do not log every article that I read in a newspaper just in case someone wants the article cross referenced on a forum . I am at a loss to understand why anyone would need an opinion or statement cross referenced back to the original source . Some of the most boring or repetitive posters on the forum cross reference their posts to sources . Do these posters really think that anyone would have any interest in the document to which they have cross referenced . In addition , if I were to start checking the cross references of posters I would begin to wonder what had gone wrong in my life and why I had time to spare completing such a pointless task . I would suggest that if you are as interested in the source documentation of my post , you simply take out a subscription to the newspaper concerned . For the sake of balance I read parts of three news papers each morning at breakfast . Some of your comments appear to be unbalanced . In reply to one of my points you state that everyone knows that migrants contribute to the local economy that that my point in raising a query on the contribution is rubbish . For someone who is keen on source documentation you made no evidence to provide any evidence to support you claim ( I have no wish to know the source or how you cam to this conclusion as you are perfectly entitled to your opinion , you are however not entitled to refer to another posters post as rubbish , though using derogatory terms is quite a common term in your posts . Whether or not immigration contributes to local economies is a hotly contested area of debate and many factors have to be taken into account Some studies suggest that is does not . The source as you keep asking is a national newspaper . If we were to take he result of the recent referendum as being a broad indication of peoples opinion , it would tend to suggest that of those who voted , more believed that the contribution was neglible than those who considered it to be highly positive . I am glad that I have never had to refer to another members post as tosh or rubbish . My preference in life is to respect other peoples opinions and not use derogatory terms . when a poster uses the term tosh or rubbish , it simply means that they are incapable of expressing a valid point and simply resort to trading insults . If someone makes a post about someone disliking immigrants , they would normally be required to produce some evidence and in addition know something about the person in real life . In addition they would need to ensure that their own posts are squeaky clean . Posters are entitled to take an objective view of immigration and make appropriate comments in reply to other members posts . Self control is an extremely important factor in my life . I pride myself on not insulting anyone and treating everyone equally . With you remarks using terms such as tosh and rubbish I do not think you can do the same . In addition I have never deemed it necessary to make derogatory remarks about another member in a public forum . If I were to die to morrow and was about to enter he kingdom of heaven , and God was to ask me if I treated everyone fairly and equally I can easily evaluate my life and say yes . If he then asked me to produce evidence ( which you seem to be obsessed with ) I would advise him to contact everyone with who I worked and all the clients of a small business which I run . | |||
"to add, debate is healthy and whilst some of us will never agree with another's position we can by engaging in debate on a subject at least agree to disagree on the specific issue. When the debate ends up being stifled by one party not wanting to address area's they have stated and other's have challenged but then they the one statin x, or z ducks the issue or wont continue to engage then that's not conducive to debate.. sometimes by knowing where we all differ or stand on a particular subject we can as individuals begin to get to understand the other party and maybe by knowing such things and putting that one thing to one side we can either break down the differences.. just a thought.. I can only re iterate that it is only a bully will refer to another members post as tosh . I prefer to treat people with respect . Posters only use terms such as tosh if they have nothing constructive to say , There is no requirement to quote the source of documentation on any post . Some posters quote so much source documentation that their posts are nothing short of boring and in any event who would ever check back to the original source . The source documentation concerning prisoners was readily available for you to see had you wanted to check it out . I am certain that you are capable of using google search . If it helps all the relevant information was published in a National newspaper . I did not even express an opinion on the article , I simply made a statement of fact concerning certain percentages . To make a statement that someone does not like immigrants without providing one single piece of evidence is hardly either good manners or acceptable . You have no knowledge of either my background or with whom I mix . Probably because I treat everyone with whom I come into contact fairly , I have no need to be censured by individuals such as yourself . I work full time in a multi culture office and in addition run a small business . Many of the contacts in this business are of non UK origin and in some cases the relation with them has lasted in excess of ten years . They are educated professional people and would not accept the type of behaviour which you are insinuating . It may come as a surprise to you that some people of non UK origin also support border controls . more tosh eh..
with hindsight I withdraw that, bit flippant..
the logic I think your using is that if someone where to state that all landlords were rachmanesque tyrants who let their tenants live in complete hovels than if they were rightly asked to validate that then they could simply say you go and look it up..
when further asked to validate their own claims they could then say well its my opinion because of whom I associate with and you cant say anything to refute what I say as that is bullying..
btw, that was just an example.. I think that in your case where you are unable to add any constructice points , you then sinply say that a post is tosh.
Using such commemts is both ill mannered and unnecessary . In addition it is a reflection on the author , not the recipient . It is sumply a bullying tactic. It is difficult to see what else referring to a post as tosh could be.
I like to be well mannered and can never think of any post where I have referred to someones post as being tosh.
If I have nothing to add , I prefer to refrain from commenting .
Stop with the false outrage. Accept that your logic is flawed and if you continue to not validate your own facts then on an open forum youll be challenged.
Your failure to address it only highlights your arrogance.
Maybe I should remind you that this is a public forum where everyone expresses opinions which is what one expects .
However referring to a posters post as tosh on a number of different occasions without any valid reason or explanation is
simply displaying ignorance and a lack of manners .
Many posters disagree with my posts ( which is to be expected as it is a debating forum ) . However none of them have referred to a post as being tosh .
There is generally a nasty undertone to your comment when you reply to my post whether it is in the political forum or any other unrelated topic .
I don't have any real issue with a post being referred to as tosh or nasty comments being made as these are a reflection on the author of the post , not the recipient .
I prefer to be an individual who achieves things in life - not someone who creates problems . In one recent comment on the health service , part of the content of the post is now being implemented but you still saw fit to describe it as tosh . On another post you referred to me as being naïve and proceeded to list numerous cases . In this case I had vast experience in the area concerned ( which was a highly specialised topic ) but you still saw fit to use the term naïve . In another post you seemed to think that there imply that there was no need investigate the use of / misuse of mobility allowances / vehicles . This is another area of special interest to me as I provide and have done for the last 26 years extensive assistance to someone who is disabled .
I can however accept that all of the above relate to a lack of manners and an attempt to bully .
What I do not accept is that you have any right to state that I ( referring to me ) do not like foreigners .
You were unable to produce any evidence to attempt to justify this opinion . I consider your opinion on this occasion to be that of a zealot and of someone who is both pious and self righteous .
You for reasons best known to yourself seem to think the people of non UK origin are unable to express opinions themselves and resort to doing it yourself on their behalf . I consider such an attitude to be both patronising and condescending .
While I should not be required to defend my position on an internet forum , I will re state for your benefit that I mix with people of non UK origin every day both at work and in relation to a small business which I run .
Maybe because I mix with these people on a day to day basis I am better placed to comment on some of the topics than you are .
To conclude I have never resorted to referring to anyones post as being tosh
Use of such a word displays a lack of self control and an inability to express a valid point .
Making personal comments about a poster ( and especially without knowing anything about the posters background ) is of course completely unacceptable .
Even after I explained in detail the people with whom I mixed on a day to day basis you simply said that I might be making that up .
The point of these forums is to allow members to express an opinion , not to make either derogatory or untrue accusations .
several of the 'examples' you refer to are frankly not known to me so either provide a link on here lest they look a bit like lies..
its only since the politics forum was started that I have after asking you to validate such claims by a source or point to refer to which you patently and consistently avoid..
Even down to saying you look it up, again as you are diverting from this point when you state something as a fact on an open and public forum you either back it up yourself or it has no credibility..
saying to others who seek where you are getting your facts from is a cop out and as you keep doing it then yes I am comfortable in saying where relevant that such a claim is tosh..
when an opinion is an opinion then fine, but what you do is start it as a fact and the change it to 'its my opinion' so it cant be challenged..
not foreigners Pat, migrants and in particular where you said that you knew that migrants do not contribute to their local economy which anyone with any sense knows is rubbish..
your inference was that they send all their money home, when asked how you knew this you went down your route of diminishing validation till it was your opinion and that you know many of them..
you were comparing them to Brits working in the middle east and you also said you know how they spend their money too, amazing that you know all these people..
you then state again migrants Pat not 'foreign' from a region then changed to a country are amongst one of the biggest percentages of inmates in our prisons..
when asked what the source is you reply by saying look it up..
again your 'facts', you validate them or they are tosh..
and as the only commonality with such things is migrants what does one garner from that..
people seeing derogatory comments toward one grouping by one individual will only rightly assume that the individual has a prejudice..
if I have referred to you as naïve that is based on your posts on here which I'm probably not alone in thinking however that can be said for many of us myself included so it goes with the territory..
and stop talking bollocks about lack of control in the use of a word, show some control of your own point of view and validate what you state are facts maybe..
I would suggest that we will not agree on this so perhaps we can agree to disagree and leave it at that..
In addition to using the term tosh you now incorporate the tem lies ( and this is in addition to stating that someone dislikes migrants without being able to produce any supporting evidence or kn owing the background of the person concerned .
I am glad that I have su8fficient self control to avoid making derogatory remarks towards other posters , suggesting that they are liars , or that they dislike migrants .
You seem obsessed with distinguishing between fact and opinions . If I was to spend time analysing another posters posts , I would be embarrassed and other posters might consider me to be a stalker . In addition it would be of serious concern to me that I had sufficient time to do this and I would need to start evaluating how I was spending my free time .
Not withstanding the fact that I do lots of other things in life , I will take into account the fact that you have for some unexplainable reason decide to trawl through my posts and make various comments on them . I note however you have been careful to avoid
mentioning the topic or post being replied to or the context in which the previous [poster posted . I am the only poster from which you required the source of the data in the post to be quoted . On one occasion when some else replied to the question , you simply dismissed it and stated that you wanted the answer from me .
The source of all the information would be from national newspapers and my comments would be based on the content of the report ( and as such I would consider the content of my post to be fact ) . Having said that I do not log every article that I read in a newspaper just in case someone wants the article cross referenced on a forum .
I am at a loss to understand why anyone would need an opinion or statement cross referenced back to the original source . Some of the most boring or repetitive posters on the forum cross reference their posts to sources . Do these posters really think that anyone would have any interest in the document to which they have cross referenced . In addition , if I were to start checking the cross references of posters I would begin to wonder what had gone wrong in my life and why I had time to spare completing such a pointless task .
I would suggest that if you are as interested in the source documentation of my post , you simply take out a subscription to the newspaper concerned . For the sake of balance I read parts of three news papers each morning at breakfast .
Some of your comments appear to be unbalanced . In reply to one of my points you state that everyone knows that migrants contribute to the local economy that that my point in raising a query on the contribution is rubbish .
For someone who is keen on source documentation you made no evidence to provide any evidence to support you claim ( I have no wish to know the source or how you cam to this conclusion as you are perfectly entitled to your opinion , you are however not entitled to refer to another posters post as rubbish , though using derogatory terms is quite a common term in your posts .
Whether or not immigration contributes to local economies is a hotly contested area of debate and many factors have to be taken into account Some studies suggest that is does not . The source as you keep asking is a national newspaper . If we were to take he result of the recent referendum as being a broad indication of peoples opinion , it would tend to suggest that of those who voted , more believed that the contribution was neglible than those who considered it to be highly positive .
I am glad that I have never had to refer to another members post as tosh or rubbish . My preference in life is to respect other peoples opinions and not use derogatory terms . when a poster uses the term tosh or rubbish , it simply means that they are incapable of expressing a valid point and simply resort to trading insults .
If someone makes a post about someone disliking immigrants , they would normally be required to produce some evidence and in addition know something about the person in real life . In addition they would need to ensure that their own posts are squeaky clean . Posters are entitled to take an objective view of immigration and make appropriate comments in reply to other members posts .
Self control is an extremely important factor in my life . I pride myself on not insulting anyone and treating everyone equally .
With you remarks using terms such as tosh and rubbish I do not think you can do the same . In addition I have never deemed it necessary to make derogatory remarks about another member in a public forum .
If I were to die to morrow and was about to enter he kingdom of heaven , and God was to ask me if I treated everyone fairly and equally I can easily evaluate my life and say yes .
If he then asked me to produce evidence ( which you seem to be obsessed with ) I would advise him to contact everyone with who I worked and all the clients of a small business which I run . "utter tosh | |||
| |||
"Last two posts took up 4 pages each with 'reply+quote' , it makes them unreadable. Try to delete some out that's not needed !" Totally agree but it Takes time and effort much easier not to | |||
"Last two posts took up 4 pages each with 'reply+quote' , it makes them unreadable. Try to delete some out that's not needed !" Easy to do on a laptop. Not so in a phone. | |||
"Last two posts took up 4 pages each with 'reply+quote' , it makes them unreadable. Try to delete some out that's not needed ! Easy to do on a laptop. Not so in a phone." Agree, for a quick reply. If a multi page long post can be typed, a quick edit can be done. | |||
