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Blair Again !!
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Well he's back.
This time calling the Brexit vote a
" foolish excursion into populism "
Here's a translation. ...."many politicians and those who wield power can't abide the thought that the electorate can make decisions for themselves " |
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"He doesn't have to accept anything, he's got a mind of his own, I'm pretty sure that if the result had been reversed it wouldn't stop you as a 'Leaver' commenting and debating the matter."
Got no prob with anyone discussing politics. What I object to is that he and his ilk are doing their best to reverse the decision taken by the electorate. |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"He doesn't have to accept anything, he's got a mind of his own, I'm pretty sure that if the result had been reversed it wouldn't stop you as a 'Leaver' commenting and debating the matter.
Got no prob with anyone discussing politics. What I object to is that he and his ilk are doing their best to reverse the decision taken by the electorate."
That is not what he has said at all. He has said if the electorate change their mind, they should get another say. Dont you think they should get another say if they change their mind? |
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By *atcoupleCouple
over a year ago
Suffolk - East Anglia |
"Like anyone else as a British citizen he's entitled to his opinion on the matter....
Yes of course he is......shame he cant seem to accept mine and 17 million plus others opinion on the matter ?"
Why do the BBC (who else?) bother to give him air time? |
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By *anes HubbyCouple
over a year ago
Babbacombe Torquay |
He's got no power to change anything, he's just adding his personal comments on the matter, I voted Remain myself, but personally I wouldn't like to see a re-run of the referendum.
He is concerned that Parliament is being shut out of the process, which is a concern many of us share. |
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By *anes HubbyCouple
over a year ago
Babbacombe Torquay |
"Like anyone else as a British citizen he's entitled to his opinion on the matter....
Yes of course he is......shame he cant seem to accept mine and 17 million plus others opinion on the matter ?
Why do the BBC (who else?) bother to give him air time? "
I saw it on SKY.... |
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By *eavenNhellCouple
over a year ago
carrbrook stalybridge |
"He's got no power to change anything, he's just adding his personal comments on the matter, I voted Remain myself, but personally I wouldn't like to see a re-run of the referendum.
He is concerned that Parliament is being shut out of the process, which is a concern many of us share."
that would be the parlaiment that many brexiteers wanted to be more in control of our future now predicatbley frozen out theres democrasey in action ????? |
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"He doesn't have to accept anything, he's got a mind of his own, I'm pretty sure that if the result had been reversed it wouldn't stop you as a 'Leaver' commenting and debating the matter.
Got no prob with anyone discussing politics. What I object to is that he and his ilk are doing their best to reverse the decision taken by the electorate.
That is not what he has said at all. He has said if the electorate change their mind, they should get another say. Dont you think they should get another say if they change their mind? "
Well I know what he said and i know what he really means.
Had the decision gone the other way do you think Blair would have been supportive of those who might have changed their mind.
I think any impartial observer knows the answer to that. |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"He doesn't have to accept anything, he's got a mind of his own, I'm pretty sure that if the result had been reversed it wouldn't stop you as a 'Leaver' commenting and debating the matter.
Got no prob with anyone discussing politics. What I object to is that he and his ilk are doing their best to reverse the decision taken by the electorate.
That is not what he has said at all. He has said if the electorate change their mind, they should get another say. Dont you think they should get another say if they change their mind?
Well I know what he said and i know what he really means.
Had the decision gone the other way do you think Blair would have been supportive of those who might have changed their mind.
I think any impartial observer knows the answer to that."
Well Nigel Farage said that if the vote was 48/52 that there should be another referendum, so it seems as though there is support from across the political spectrum, wouldn't you say? |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"He's got no power to change anything, he's just adding his personal comments on the matter, I voted Remain myself, but personally I wouldn't like to see a re-run of the referendum.
He is concerned that Parliament is being shut out of the process, which is a concern many of us share."
Including the Prime Minister.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37812303 |
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By *anes HubbyCouple
over a year ago
Babbacombe Torquay |
"He's got no power to change anything, he's just adding his personal comments on the matter, I voted Remain myself, but personally I wouldn't like to see a re-run of the referendum.
He is concerned that Parliament is being shut out of the process, which is a concern many of us share.that would be the parlaiment that many brexiteers wanted to be more in control of our future now predicatbley frozen out theres democrasey in action ?????"
Their EU shackles are now being exchanged for the shackles of the Houses of Parliament.....they labelled it a fight for freedom, what they have now is a fight for democracy in their own country.
If there is no vote in Parliament it will set a precedent that will haunt all British people for evermore. |
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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago
bournemouth |
"He's got no power to change anything, he's just adding his personal comments on the matter, I voted Remain myself, but personally I wouldn't like to see a re-run of the referendum.
He is concerned that Parliament is being shut out of the process, which is a concern many of us share."
Thats a bit rich from a man who took us to war on a lie and has the blood of many british soldiers and civilians on his hands |
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By *anes HubbyCouple
over a year ago
Babbacombe Torquay |
"He's got no power to change anything, he's just adding his personal comments on the matter, I voted Remain myself, but personally I wouldn't like to see a re-run of the referendum.
He is concerned that Parliament is being shut out of the process, which is a concern many of us share.
Thats a bit rich from a man who took us to war on a lie and has the blood of many british soldiers and civilians on his hands "
The conservatives would have done exactly the same, the only opposition seemed to come from a small section of Blairs own backbenchers, a handful of Tories, and the Lib Dems and SNP.
We simply need to stop jumping when the US tells us to. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"He is also concerned that we the electorate were fed so much bullshit from both camps....and he's right on that."
He was never bothered when Aliaster Campbell constantly fed favoured tabloid papers and ergo us it when he was PM, did he? |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"He's got no power to change anything, he's just adding his personal comments on the matter, I voted Remain myself, but personally I wouldn't like to see a re-run of the referendum.
He is concerned that Parliament is being shut out of the process, which is a concern many of us share."
Parliament is against what the people want so should be shut out the members are mainly for themselves not those who elected them,if they do not do what the majority want ie Brexit they should resighn or be sent to prison |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"He's got no power to change anything, he's just adding his personal comments on the matter, I voted Remain myself, but personally I wouldn't like to see a re-run of the referendum.
He is concerned that Parliament is being shut out of the process, which is a concern many of us share.that would be the parlaiment that many brexiteers wanted to be more in control of our future now predicatbley frozen out theres democrasey in action ?????
Their EU shackles are now being exchanged for the shackles of the Houses of Parliament.....they labelled it a fight for freedom, what they have now is a fight for democracy in their own country.
If there is no vote in Parliament it will set a precedent that will haunt all British people for evermore."
there has been a vote in parliament, how do you think we got the referendum in the first place?  |
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So was the referendum advisory or binding?
If advisory then they should take it in to account, debate it, then use their judgement in a vote thereafter, don't you think?
That, I believe, constitutes sovereignty of parliament does it not? |
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"He is also concerned that we the electorate were fed so much bullshit from both camps....and he's right on that."
However it is not any differenent to many of the elections . If anything the leave vote could potentially have been higher as some voters at the margin were mislead by project fear.
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"So was the referendum advisory or binding?
If advisory then they should take it in to account, debate it, then use their judgement in a vote thereafter, don't you think?
That, I believe, constitutes sovereignty of parliament does it not?"
Surely it is irrelevant whether it is advisory or binding .
The electorate voted to leave . There is nothing else to discuss. It is the role of MPs to carry out the electorates wishes . |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"So was the referendum advisory or binding?
If advisory then they should take it in to account, debate it, then use their judgement in a vote thereafter, don't you think?
That, I believe, constitutes sovereignty of parliament does it not? Surely it is irrelevant whether it is advisory or binding .
The electorate voted to leave . There is nothing else to discuss. It is the role of MPs to carry out the electorates wishes . "
No, you are misunderstanding the basics of a democracy. A delegate is there to carry out the will of their constituents, a member of parliament on the other hand is representative, that is, we elected them to do what they think is best of us, not to just do what we tell them to.
Remember, this is the parliamentary sovereignty so main Leavers said that they wanted. |
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"Like anyone else as a British citizen he's entitled to his opinion on the matter...."
Blair is entitled to his opinion, but to be honest I'm surprised he has crawled back out from under his rock. The man has got some gall to show his face here again after the Chilcot inquiry into the Iraq war. As with the EU referendum earlier this year his interventions now will not gain any public support. Public opinion of Blair is very low. If Remain are trying to put Blair up as some sort of poster boy for their cause I think it shows now just how desperate they have become. |
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"He is also concerned that we the electorate were fed so much bullshit from both camps....and he's right on that. However it is not any differenent to many of the elections . If anything the leave vote could potentially have been higher as some voters at the margin were mislead by project fear. "
False equivalence in many respects.
An election is different to a referendum. Legally binding referendums have a higher threshold for such big changes. 52% of 74% is not enough so we shouldn't proceed with leaving on that basis.
There is a false equivalence on the lies told. The Leave campaign, as several studies found, told much more.
If you wish to persist with the false equivalence of elections and referenda then you will have no objection to another one coming along so we can change our minds when the promises that were made by one side are shown to be bullshit. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"He is also concerned that we the electorate were fed so much bullshit from both camps....and he's right on that. However it is not any differenent to many of the elections . If anything the leave vote could potentially have been higher as some voters at the margin were mislead by project fear.
False equivalence in many respects.
An election is different to a referendum. Legally binding referendums have a higher threshold for such big changes. 52% of 74% is not enough so we shouldn't proceed with leaving on that basis.
There is a false equivalence on the lies told. The Leave campaign, as several studies found, told much more.
If you wish to persist with the false equivalence of elections and referenda then you will have no objection to another one coming along so we can change our minds when the promises that were made by one side are shown to be bullshit. "
there have been several studies on the amount of lies told?  . Some people need to get a job then.
It's good that you want to change your mind now but it don't worry about it, we're leaving anyway |
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"He's got no power to change anything, he's just adding his personal comments on the matter, I voted Remain myself, but personally I wouldn't like to see a re-run of the referendum.
He is concerned that Parliament is being shut out of the process, which is a concern many of us share."
any of us looking at the process should be concerned, ignore the referendum ever took place (yes I know and accept the decision)..
but if the PM tomorrow increased vat to 40% and decreed that parliament would not be consulted think its fair to say that we would be less than pleased and we would demand that our elected representatives address and debate this..
May has said that Parliament will vote on Heathrow..
we have a system whereby our elected representatives pass law, policy is implemented which we abide and live by..
and yet this the biggest issue in the last 40 years which will have effects in many areas for many decades if not centuries is not to be scrutinised..?
will repeat again, the vote is cast and to be abided by and NO 2nd referendum but the sovereignty of Parliament which was one of the core principles of the leave campaign now means nothing?
Constitutionally the precedent that this will set is a bit worrying..
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By *anes HubbyCouple
over a year ago
Babbacombe Torquay |
"He's got no power to change anything, he's just adding his personal comments on the matter, I voted Remain myself, but personally I wouldn't like to see a re-run of the referendum.
He is concerned that Parliament is being shut out of the process, which is a concern many of us share.that would be the parlaiment that many brexiteers wanted to be more in control of our future now predicatbley frozen out theres democrasey in action ?????
Their EU shackles are now being exchanged for the shackles of the Houses of Parliament.....they labelled it a fight for freedom, what they have now is a fight for democracy in their own country.
If there is no vote in Parliament it will set a precedent that will haunt all British people for evermore.
there has been a vote in parliament, how do you think we got the referendum in the first place? "
I think you know exactly what I meant, stop being so petty |
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By *anes HubbyCouple
over a year ago
Babbacombe Torquay |
"He is also concerned that we the electorate were fed so much bullshit from both camps....and he's right on that. However it is not any differenent to many of the elections . If anything the leave vote could potentially have been higher as some voters at the margin were mislead by project fear. "
I think there was an element of 'Project Fear' on both sides of the debate leading up to the vote.... |
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"He's got no power to change anything, he's just adding his personal comments on the matter, I voted Remain myself, but personally I wouldn't like to see a re-run of the referendum.
He is concerned that Parliament is being shut out of the process, which is a concern many of us share.
any of us looking at the process should be concerned, ignore the referendum ever took place (yes I know and accept the decision)..
but if the PM tomorrow increased vat to 40% and decreed that parliament would not be consulted think its fair to say that we would be less than pleased and we would demand that our elected representatives address and debate this..
May has said that Parliament will vote on Heathrow..
we have a system whereby our elected representatives pass law, policy is implemented which we abide and live by..
and yet this the biggest issue in the last 40 years which will have effects in many areas for many decades if not centuries is not to be scrutinised..?
will repeat again, the vote is cast and to be abided by and NO 2nd referendum but the sovereignty of Parliament which was one of the core principles of the leave campaign now means nothing?
Constitutionally the precedent that this will set is a bit worrying..
"
Theresa May and the Brexit secretary David Davis have both said that the final deal for leaving the EU will be put before parliament for a vote.
There will be many, many, many debates about Brexit in Parliament over the next 2 years before we fully leave and there have already been a number of debates in Parliament about Brexit. I'm just not seeing where you get this idea that Brexit is not being given enough airtime in Parliament?
Article 50 does not need to be voted on in Parliament because MP's already voted by a majority of 6 to 1 to let the people decide our membership of the EU in a referendum. The people chose Leave so article 50 has to be triggered in order to leave. |
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"He's got no power to change anything, he's just adding his personal comments on the matter, I voted Remain myself, but personally I wouldn't like to see a re-run of the referendum.
He is concerned that Parliament is being shut out of the process, which is a concern many of us share.
any of us looking at the process should be concerned, ignore the referendum ever took place (yes I know and accept the decision)..
but if the PM tomorrow increased vat to 40% and decreed that parliament would not be consulted think its fair to say that we would be less than pleased and we would demand that our elected representatives address and debate this..
May has said that Parliament will vote on Heathrow..
we have a system whereby our elected representatives pass law, policy is implemented which we abide and live by..
and yet this the biggest issue in the last 40 years which will have effects in many areas for many decades if not centuries is not to be scrutinised..?
will repeat again, the vote is cast and to be abided by and NO 2nd referendum but the sovereignty of Parliament which was one of the core principles of the leave campaign now means nothing?
Constitutionally the precedent that this will set is a bit worrying..
Theresa May and the Brexit secretary David Davis have both said that the final deal for leaving the EU will be put before parliament for a vote.
There will be many, many, many debates about Brexit in Parliament over the next 2 years before we fully leave and there have already been a number of debates in Parliament about Brexit. I'm just not seeing where you get this idea that Brexit is not being given enough airtime in Parliament?
Article 50 does not need to be voted on in Parliament because MP's already voted by a majority of 6 to 1 to let the people decide our membership of the EU in a referendum. The people chose Leave so article 50 has to be triggered in order to leave. "
If it is the case that Parliament will sign off the final deal before we leave then fine..
not said there isn't enough airtime in Parliament on this and agree its one of and will remain one of the most discussed issue's ..
yes I know the difference Centaur, a referendum is not law its advisory. As I see it in order for it to go through then Parliament has to repeal the 72 act that started us on the common market path..
Is it therefore the case that unless the 72 act is repealed then article 50 cant legally be enacted..? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"He's got no power to change anything, he's just adding his personal comments on the matter, I voted Remain myself, but personally I wouldn't like to see a re-run of the referendum.
He is concerned that Parliament is being shut out of the process, which is a concern many of us share.
Thats a bit rich from a man who took us to war on a lie and has the blood of many british soldiers and civilians on his hands
The conservatives would have done exactly the same, the only opposition seemed to come from a small section of Blairs own backbenchers, a handful of Tories, and the Lib Dems and SNP.
We simply need to stop jumping when the US tells us to."
.
Tony Blair was giving speeches in the US about Arab springs and military intervention of dictatorships before George w bush was even elected and even before 911 .... I'm afraid the popular myth of Tony being a poodle are just that, a myth! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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If politicans don't like populism politics why don't they actually do something for the populous for a fucking change and then perhaps we might not be in the fucking mess we are |
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I see Mandy has now put his two penneth in the ring.Now there's a surprise.
I can accept that there are many who voted remain who have genuine concerns and it's ok to voice them. Bit let's be clear. A vote was taken, a decision given and there's no going back.
My problem with the likes of Blair & Mandy etc are that they are the consumate politicians despite their elaborate arguments I cannot bring myself to believe a word they say. |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"I see Mandy has now put his two penneth in the ring.Now there's a surprise.
I can accept that there are many who voted remain who have genuine concerns and it's ok to voice them. Bit let's be clear. A vote was taken, a decision given and there's no going back.
My problem with the likes of Blair & Mandy etc are that they are the consumate politicians despite their elaborate arguments I cannot bring myself to believe a word they say."
So even if the country decided actually THEY dont want to leave anymore, you still think they should be forced to? Even if the electorate don't want to leave? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"He is also concerned that we the electorate were fed so much bullshit from both camps....and he's right on that."
Very right!
And too many decisions made on a whim from what I can see. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"So was the referendum advisory or binding?
If advisory then they should take it in to account, debate it, then use their judgement in a vote thereafter, don't you think?
That, I believe, constitutes sovereignty of parliament does it not?"
Exactly, one of the prime arguments for Brexit. MPs are not obligated to follow the wishes of their constituents, that's not how it works.
How can the Brexit side argue against parliament having a say? They should be protesting in favour of it! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"So was the referendum advisory or binding?
If advisory then they should take it in to account, debate it, then use their judgement in a vote thereafter, don't you think?
That, I believe, constitutes sovereignty of parliament does it not? Surely it is irrelevant whether it is advisory or binding .
The electorate voted to leave . There is nothing else to discuss. It is the role of MPs to carry out the electorates wishes .
No, you are misunderstanding the basics of a democracy. A delegate is there to carry out the will of their constituents, a member of parliament on the other hand is representative, that is, we elected them to do what they think is best of us, not to just do what we tell them to.
Remember, this is the parliamentary sovereignty so main Leavers said that they wanted."
Spot on! |
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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago
bournemouth |
"I see Mandy has now put his two penneth in the ring.Now there's a surprise.
I can accept that there are many who voted remain who have genuine concerns and it's ok to voice them. Bit let's be clear. A vote was taken, a decision given and there's no going back.
My problem with the likes of Blair & Mandy etc are that they are the consumate politicians despite their elaborate arguments I cannot bring myself to believe a word they say.
So even if the country decided actually THEY dont want to leave anymore, you still think they should be forced to? Even if the electorate don't want to leave? "
The electorate made their decision, its a few spoilt kids that are saying some have changed their minds what proof have you that the result would be any different. |
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"He is also concerned that we the electorate were fed so much bullshit from both camps....and he's right on that.
Very right!
And too many decisions made on a whim from what I can see."
On a simplistic basis the electorate made their decision and knew that it was a once in a life time opportunity for a better future .
I do not see many people complaining about the information that they were given.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"He is also concerned that we the electorate were fed so much bullshit from both camps....and he's right on that.
Very right!
And too many decisions made on a whim from what I can see. On a simplistic basis the electorate made their decision and knew that it was a once in a life time opportunity for a better future .
I do not see many people complaining about the information that they were given.
"
Which says a lot about the electorate. We know that there were outrageous claims made during the course of the campaign period and that if people aren't complaining, why the hell not?
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"He is also concerned that we the electorate were fed so much bullshit from both camps....and he's right on that.
Very right!
And too many decisions made on a whim from what I can see. On a simplistic basis the electorate made their decision and knew that it was a once in a life time opportunity for a better future .
I do not see many people complaining about the information that they were given.
Which says a lot about the electorate. We know that there were outrageous claims made during the course of the campaign period and that if people aren't complaining, why the hell not?
"
Because the BeLeavers think its all true! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"He is also concerned that we the electorate were fed so much bullshit from both camps....and he's right on that.
Very right!
And too many decisions made on a whim from what I can see. On a simplistic basis the electorate made their decision and knew that it was a once in a life time opportunity for a better future .
I do not see many people complaining about the information that they were given.
Which says a lot about the electorate. We know that there were outrageous claims made during the course of the campaign period and that if people aren't complaining, why the hell not?
Because the BeLeavers think its all true! "
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"He is also concerned that we the electorate were fed so much bullshit from both camps....and he's right on that.
Very right!
And too many decisions made on a whim from what I can see. On a simplistic basis the electorate made their decision and knew that it was a once in a life time opportunity for a better future .
I do not see many people complaining about the information that they were given.
Which says a lot about the electorate. We know that there were outrageous claims made during the course of the campaign period and that if people aren't complaining, why the hell not?
Because the BeLeavers think its all true! "
Outside my local hospital there is a big banner that says "where's our £350m, Boris?" |
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"I see Mandy has now put his two penneth in the ring.Now there's a surprise.
I can accept that there are many who voted remain who have genuine concerns and it's ok to voice them. Bit let's be clear. A vote was taken, a decision given and there's no going back.
My problem with the likes of Blair & Mandy etc are that they are the consumate politicians despite their elaborate arguments I cannot bring myself to believe a word they say.
So even if the country decided actually THEY dont want to leave anymore, you still think they should be forced to? Even if the electorate don't want to leave? "
You are dealing in hypotheticals now which are completely pointless. Fact of the matter is the country DID vote to leave and that is what we will now do. |
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"So was the referendum advisory or binding?
If advisory then they should take it in to account, debate it, then use their judgement in a vote thereafter, don't you think?
That, I believe, constitutes sovereignty of parliament does it not?
Exactly, one of the prime arguments for Brexit. MPs are not obligated to follow the wishes of their constituents, that's not how it works.
How can the Brexit side argue against parliament having a say? They should be protesting in favour of it!"
Parliament is having a say though, ffs. |
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"I see Mandy has now put his two penneth in the ring.Now there's a surprise.
I can accept that there are many who voted remain who have genuine concerns and it's ok to voice them. Bit let's be clear. A vote was taken, a decision given and there's no going back.
My problem with the likes of Blair & Mandy etc are that they are the consumate politicians despite their elaborate arguments I cannot bring myself to believe a word they say."
Mandelson is even more clueless than Blair. Just look at Mandelson's views on the Euro for example, he still wanted Britain to join the Euro in 2014. |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"I see Mandy has now put his two penneth in the ring.Now there's a surprise.
I can accept that there are many who voted remain who have genuine concerns and it's ok to voice them. Bit let's be clear. A vote was taken, a decision given and there's no going back.
My problem with the likes of Blair & Mandy etc are that they are the consumate politicians despite their elaborate arguments I cannot bring myself to believe a word they say.
So even if the country decided actually THEY dont want to leave anymore, you still think they should be forced to? Even if the electorate don't want to leave?
You are dealing in hypotheticals now which are completely pointless. Fact of the matter is the country DID vote to leave and that is what we will now do. "
And all Blair is saying, is if the country changes it's mind, it should be able to reverse that decision, pretty simple really.
It seems very very odd to me, that you believe that if the country doesn't want to leave, that it should be forced to anyway. You used to complain about sovereignty being with the EU, now you don't want parliamentary sovereignty, and in the future you wouldn't want the people to have a say either. I'm not really sure what kind of political system (im not even going to call it a democracy if you don't think either the people or their elected representatives should get a say) you are suggesting we adopt.  |
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"I see Mandy has now put his two penneth in the ring.Now there's a surprise.
I can accept that there are many who voted remain who have genuine concerns and it's ok to voice them. Bit let's be clear. A vote was taken, a decision given and there's no going back.
My problem with the likes of Blair & Mandy etc are that they are the consumate politicians despite their elaborate arguments I cannot bring myself to believe a word they say.
So even if the country decided actually THEY dont want to leave anymore, you still think they should be forced to? Even if the electorate don't want to leave?
You are dealing in hypotheticals now which are completely pointless. Fact of the matter is the country DID vote to leave and that is what we will now do.
And all Blair is saying, is if the country changes it's mind, it should be able to reverse that decision, pretty simple really.
It seems very very odd to me, that you believe that if the country doesn't want to leave, that it should be forced to anyway. You used to complain about sovereignty being with the EU, now you don't want parliamentary sovereignty, and in the future you wouldn't want the people to have a say either. I'm not really sure what kind of political system (im not even going to call it a democracy if you don't think either the people or their elected representatives should get a say) you are suggesting we adopt. "
Parliament is having its say though. We'll have tons of Brexit debates in parliament over the next 2 years. We've had a few brexit debates In parliament already.
Also when David Cameron said "this will be a once in a lifetime referendum", please explain which part of that you didn't quite understand? |
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By *anes HubbyCouple
over a year ago
Babbacombe Torquay |
The word 'Sovereignty' was all but claimed as their own by Leave campaigners leading up to the referendum, UKIP banged on about it for months, but when Parliamentry sovereignty is spoken about many leavers almost choke on it.... |
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"The word 'Sovereignty' was all but claimed as their own by Leave campaigners leading up to the referendum, UKIP banged on about it for months, but when Parliamentry sovereignty is spoken about many leavers almost choke on it...."
You are peddling lies and trying to deceive people. Parliament is having it's say on Brexit. As already mentioned there will be dozens of Brexit debates in Parliament over the next 2 years before we fully leave and we have had a number of them already. Both Theresa May and the Brexit secretary David Davis have said the final EU deal for leaving will be put before parliament for a vote.
Your nose is just put out of joint because the government won't give a running commentary on EU negotiations.
Truth is if the government did give a running commentary then you would look for something else to whinge, whine and moan about. |
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"Seriously Centaur explain to us what kind of political system you want, if you don't want either the will of the people, or their representatives to be taken into account?"
The one we have got now works just fine. What is your problem with it? The government is carrying out the will of the people, Leave won the referendum remember.  |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"Seriously Centaur explain to us what kind of political system you want, if you don't want either the will of the people, or their representatives to be taken into account?
The one we have got now works just fine. What is your problem with it? The government is carrying out the will of the people, Leave won the referendum remember. "
So you would be happy if Parliament got a straight up, un-whipped vote, "should the UK leave the EU"? Because that right there would be parliamentary sovereignty. |
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"Seriously Centaur explain to us what kind of political system you want, if you don't want either the will of the people, or their representatives to be taken into account?
The one we have got now works just fine. What is your problem with it? The government is carrying out the will of the people, Leave won the referendum remember.
So you would be happy if Parliament got a straight up, un-whipped vote, "should the UK leave the EU"? Because that right there would be parliamentary sovereignty. "
Every politician in parliament already had the opportunity to do that and answered that very question you posed at the ballot box on June 23rd, just like the rest of us. The decision to Leave has already been taken by the British people now, and it was parliament who voted by a majority of 6 to 1 to let the British people decide the answer to your question in a referendum. Now the British people have chosen to Leave the EU it is upto parliament to carry out the wishes of the people. Parliamentary process is being followed and Brexit debates will (and already have) take(n) place now and over the next 2 years. At the end of the government's EU negotiations the deal that the government has struck will be put before parliament for a vote.
Now seriously what is your problem with that? |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"Seriously Centaur explain to us what kind of political system you want, if you don't want either the will of the people, or their representatives to be taken into account?
The one we have got now works just fine. What is your problem with it? The government is carrying out the will of the people, Leave won the referendum remember.
So you would be happy if Parliament got a straight up, un-whipped vote, "should the UK leave the EU"? Because that right there would be parliamentary sovereignty.
Every politician in parliament already had the opportunity to do that and answered that very question you posed at the ballot box on June 23rd, just like the rest of us. The decision to Leave has already been taken by the British people now, and it was parliament who voted by a majority of 6 to 1 to let the British people decide the answer to your question in a referendum. Now the British people have chosen to Leave the EU it is upto parliament to carry out the wishes of the people. Parliamentary process is being followed and Brexit debates will (and already have) take(n) place now and over the next 2 years. At the end of the government's EU negotiations the deal that the government has struck will be put before parliament for a vote.
Now seriously what is your problem with that?"
I want parliamentary sovereignty. You fundamentally misunderstand the concept if you think that parliamentary sovereignty is MP voting in their own constituency in a referendum.
Yes or No, now we have the non-binding, advisory referendum result, should MPs get a Yes/No vote on if the UK should leave the EU? |
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"Seriously Centaur explain to us what kind of political system you want, if you don't want either the will of the people, or their representatives to be taken into account?
The one we have got now works just fine. What is your problem with it? The government is carrying out the will of the people, Leave won the referendum remember.
So you would be happy if Parliament got a straight up, un-whipped vote, "should the UK leave the EU"? Because that right there would be parliamentary sovereignty.
Every politician in parliament already had the opportunity to do that and answered that very question you posed at the ballot box on June 23rd, just like the rest of us. The decision to Leave has already been taken by the British people now, and it was parliament who voted by a majority of 6 to 1 to let the British people decide the answer to your question in a referendum. Now the British people have chosen to Leave the EU it is upto parliament to carry out the wishes of the people. Parliamentary process is being followed and Brexit debates will (and already have) take(n) place now and over the next 2 years. At the end of the government's EU negotiations the deal that the government has struck will be put before parliament for a vote.
Now seriously what is your problem with that?
I want parliamentary sovereignty. You fundamentally misunderstand the concept if you think that parliamentary sovereignty is MP voting in their own constituency in a referendum.
Yes or No, now we have the non-binding, advisory referendum result, should MPs get a Yes/No vote on if the UK should leave the EU? "
MP's already passed the responsibility of that question over to the British people when they voted with a majority of 6 to 1 in parliament to let the people decide in a referendum. The people chose Leave so parliament doesn't need to answer the question, the people already answered it for them in the referendum. I understand the concept of parliamentary sovereignty very well thanks. It appears you don't if you want to remain in the undemocratic EU which makes EU law supreme over UK law.
Parliamentary process is being followed now as i outlined in my previous posts. MP's will get a vote on the final EU deal in parliament once the exit negotiations are completed, that is parliamentary sovereignty at work. |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
So its clear you don't want parliament to have an in/out vote on the EU, because you dont actually believe in parliamentary sovereignty.
Yes or No, if there is a change in the public mood regarding Brexit, should the electorate be given another say on the matter through a referendum or a general election? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"So its clear you don't want parliament to have an in/out vote on the EU, because you dont actually believe in parliamentary sovereignty.
Yes or No, if there is a change in the public mood regarding Brexit, should the electorate be given another say on the matter through a referendum or a general election? "
Parliamentary sovereignty decided that the people should have the in/out vote on the EU.
How do you decide if there is a change in public mood? Have a referendum on it? Hold a referendum to see if there should be a referendum? And what if there is a change in public mood after that referendum? Have another referendum? ... getting tired of typing ref.. sod it, vote, now |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"So its clear you don't want parliament to have an in/out vote on the EU, because you dont actually believe in parliamentary sovereignty.
Yes or No, if there is a change in the public mood regarding Brexit, should the electorate be given another say on the matter through a referendum or a general election?
Parliamentary sovereignty decided that the people should have the in/out vote on the EU.
How do you decide if there is a change in public mood? Have a referendum on it? Hold a referendum to see if there should be a referendum? And what if there is a change in public mood after that referendum? Have another referendum? ... getting tired of typing ref.. sod it, vote, now"
spot on, all this nonsense being stirred up after the referendum is making a mockery of the system, if it continues, no one will continue to vote, everyone will consider it an utter waste of time
the results of the referendum must be respected |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
So you dont believe in parliamentary sovereignty, you don't want parliament to vote on it, and you don't want the public to have a say on it either. You just want to leave the EU and you dont give a damn about how that happens, or the terrible impact it will have have on our democracy, on the union, or on our economy. |
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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago
bournemouth |
"So you dont believe in parliamentary sovereignty, you don't want parliament to vote on it, and you don't want the public to have a say on it either. You just want to leave the EU and you dont give a damn about how that happens, or the terrible impact it will have have on our democracy, on the union, or on our economy. "
Parliament and the voters had their say which was to let the voters decide, they did and almost every politician says that decision is final and must be respected, it is you and the other spoilt brats that wont accept the vote its you that is non democratic because you didnt get your way, perhaps had the remain side put over a better argument the vote might have gone the other way |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"So you dont believe in parliamentary sovereignty, you don't want parliament to vote on it, and you don't want the public to have a say on it either. You just want to leave the EU and you dont give a damn about how that happens, or the terrible impact it will have have on our democracy, on the union, or on our economy. "
the public have had a say on it. That is democracy. And it won't have a terrible impact on our economy. The Union? Do you think then that the Scottish parliament should have ignored the referendum there and just voted to leave the UK anyway? |
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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago
bournemouth |
"The public would rather stay.
I'd say they had changed their minds but actually the majority always wanted to stay, but a lot of leave voters have certainly changed their minds. "
Strange the result of the votes counted said the majority wanted to leave |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"The public would rather stay.
I'd say they had changed their minds but actually the majority always wanted to stay, but a lot of leave voters have certainly changed their minds.
Strange the result of the votes counted said the majority wanted to leave "
Your maths is rubbish. Only 38 percent of the electorate voted to leave remember. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The public would rather stay.
I'd say they had changed their minds but actually the majority always wanted to stay, but a lot of leave voters have certainly changed their minds.
Strange the result of the votes counted said the majority wanted to leave
Your maths is rubbish. Only 38 percent of the electorate voted to leave remember."
I'll ask you again. Should the Scottish parliament have ignored their referendum and taken Scotland out of the UK anyway? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The public would rather stay.
I'd say they had changed their minds but actually the majority always wanted to stay, but a lot of leave voters have certainly changed their minds.
Strange the result of the votes counted said the majority wanted to leave
Your maths is rubbish. Only 38 percent of the electorate voted to leave remember."
not as bad as your English, what don't you understand about votes counted? |
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By *anes HubbyCouple
over a year ago
Babbacombe Torquay |
"Like anyone else as a British citizen he's entitled to his opinion on the matter....na,war criminals shouldint be allowed an opinion. "
He's not a war criminal though.....unless of course you prefer mob justice instead of the rule of law. |
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"Like anyone else as a British citizen he's entitled to his opinion on the matter....na,war criminals shouldint be allowed an opinion.
He's not a war criminal though.....unless of course you prefer mob justice instead of the rule of law."
the war in iraq was illegal though and was done so purely for financial gain.but he sucked American dick and done it anyway so yea international law was broken and if any third world leader done the same he would be prosecuted as such.yea it had nothing to do with 911 and more to do with Saddams threat of changing dollar for oil to gold for oil jus like gadaffi done and look what happend to him olso lol. |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"Like anyone else as a British citizen he's entitled to his opinion on the matter....na,war criminals shouldint be allowed an opinion.
He's not a war criminal though.....unless of course you prefer mob justice instead of the rule of law.the war in iraq was illegal though and was done so purely for financial gain.but he sucked American dick and done it anyway so yea international law was broken and if any third world leader done the same he would be prosecuted as such.yea it had nothing to do with 911 and more to do with Saddams threat of changing dollar for oil to gold for oil jus like gadaffi done and look what happend to him olso lol."
It wasn't, the PM has the power to take the country to war, he did so with parliamentary approval. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Like anyone else as a British citizen he's entitled to his opinion on the matter....na,war criminals shouldint be allowed an opinion.
He's not a war criminal though.....unless of course you prefer mob justice instead of the rule of law.the war in iraq was illegal though and was done so purely for financial gain.but he sucked American dick and done it anyway so yea international law was broken and if any third world leader done the same he would be prosecuted as such.yea it had nothing to do with 911 and more to do with Saddams threat of changing dollar for oil to gold for oil jus like gadaffi done and look what happend to him olso lol.
It wasn't, the PM has the power to take the country to war, he did so with parliamentary approval."
.
Turns out parliamentary democracy ain't that great after all! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The public would rather stay.
I'd say they had changed their minds but actually the majority always wanted to stay, but a lot of leave voters have certainly changed their minds.
Strange the result of the votes counted said the majority wanted to leave
Your maths is rubbish. Only 38 percent of the electorate voted to leave remember.
not as bad as your English, what don't you understand about votes counted?"
Hard work having a common sense debate sometimes isn't it  |
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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
"Like anyone else as a British citizen he's entitled to his opinion on the matter....na,war criminals shouldint be allowed an opinion.
He's not a war criminal though.....unless of course you prefer mob justice instead of the rule of law.the war in iraq was illegal though and was done so purely for financial gain.but he sucked American dick and done it anyway so yea international law was broken and if any third world leader done the same he would be prosecuted as such.yea it had nothing to do with 911 and more to do with Saddams threat of changing dollar for oil to gold for oil jus like gadaffi done and look what happend to him olso lol.
It wasn't, the PM has the power to take the country to war, he did so with parliamentary approval."
He only got that approval because he lied - lies that were way, way bigger, and more heinous, than any that were told by either side in the referendum campaign. Lies that sent our own men and women to their deaths, and lies that have ultimately sent hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of others to their deaths. |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"Like anyone else as a British citizen he's entitled to his opinion on the matter....na,war criminals shouldint be allowed an opinion.
He's not a war criminal though.....unless of course you prefer mob justice instead of the rule of law.the war in iraq was illegal though and was done so purely for financial gain.but he sucked American dick and done it anyway so yea international law was broken and if any third world leader done the same he would be prosecuted as such.yea it had nothing to do with 911 and more to do with Saddams threat of changing dollar for oil to gold for oil jus like gadaffi done and look what happend to him olso lol.
It wasn't, the PM has the power to take the country to war, he did so with parliamentary approval.
He only got that approval because he lied - lies that were way, way bigger, and more heinous, than any that were told by either side in the referendum campaign. Lies that sent our own men and women to their deaths, and lies that have ultimately sent hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of others to their deaths."
But the PM has the power to declare war without parliamentary approval anyway. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Like anyone else as a British citizen he's entitled to his opinion on the matter....na,war criminals shouldint be allowed an opinion.
He's not a war criminal though.....unless of course you prefer mob justice instead of the rule of law.the war in iraq was illegal though and was done so purely for financial gain.but he sucked American dick and done it anyway so yea international law was broken and if any third world leader done the same he would be prosecuted as such.yea it had nothing to do with 911 and more to do with Saddams threat of changing dollar for oil to gold for oil jus like gadaffi done and look what happend to him olso lol.
It wasn't, the PM has the power to take the country to war, he did so with parliamentary approval.
He only got that approval because he lied - lies that were way, way bigger, and more heinous, than any that were told by either side in the referendum campaign. Lies that sent our own men and women to their deaths, and lies that have ultimately sent hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of others to their deaths.
But the PM has the power to declare war without parliamentary approval anyway. "
.
So pm,s make shit decisions and so does parliament!!....i reckon if you had a referendum on the Iraq invasion it would have been a mighty big no vote? |
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"Like anyone else as a British citizen he's entitled to his opinion on the matter....na,war criminals shouldint be allowed an opinion.
He's not a war criminal though.....unless of course you prefer mob justice instead of the rule of law.the war in iraq was illegal though and was done so purely for financial gain.but he sucked American dick and done it anyway so yea international law was broken and if any third world leader done the same he would be prosecuted as such.yea it had nothing to do with 911 and more to do with Saddams threat of changing dollar for oil to gold for oil jus like gadaffi done and look what happend to him olso lol.
It wasn't, the PM has the power to take the country to war, he did so with parliamentary approval."
yea with LIES lol.u know like all the uk would have a 45 min warning that we were all going to die if saddam pressed a button. |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"Like anyone else as a British citizen he's entitled to his opinion on the matter....na,war criminals shouldint be allowed an opinion.
He's not a war criminal though.....unless of course you prefer mob justice instead of the rule of law.the war in iraq was illegal though and was done so purely for financial gain.but he sucked American dick and done it anyway so yea international law was broken and if any third world leader done the same he would be prosecuted as such.yea it had nothing to do with 911 and more to do with Saddams threat of changing dollar for oil to gold for oil jus like gadaffi done and look what happend to him olso lol.
It wasn't, the PM has the power to take the country to war, he did so with parliamentary approval.
He only got that approval because he lied - lies that were way, way bigger, and more heinous, than any that were told by either side in the referendum campaign. Lies that sent our own men and women to their deaths, and lies that have ultimately sent hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of others to their deaths.
But the PM has the power to declare war without parliamentary approval anyway. .
So pm,s make shit decisions and so does parliament!!....i reckon if you had a referendum on the Iraq invasion it would have been a mighty big no vote?"
Thats the system we have. |
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"So you dont believe in parliamentary sovereignty, you don't want parliament to vote on it, and you don't want the public to have a say on it either. You just want to leave the EU and you dont give a damn about how that happens, or the terrible impact it will have have on our democracy, on the union, or on our economy.
Parliament and the voters had their say which was to let the voters decide, they did and almost every politician says that decision is final and must be respected, it is you and the other spoilt brats that wont accept the vote its you that is non democratic because you didnt get your way, perhaps had the remain side put over a better argument the vote might have gone the other way "
|
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"The public would rather stay.
I'd say they had changed their minds but actually the majority always wanted to stay, but a lot of leave voters have certainly changed their minds. "
I thought that the result was to leave . I can see little evidence of people changing their opinion?. With all the good news that has been announced recently , why would anyone want to change their mind. |
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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago
bournemouth |
"The public would rather stay.
I'd say they had changed their minds but actually the majority always wanted to stay, but a lot of leave voters have certainly changed their minds.
Strange the result of the votes counted said the majority wanted to leave
Your maths is rubbish. Only 38 percent of the electorate voted to leave remember.
not as bad as your English, what don't you understand about votes counted?"
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Like anyone else as a British citizen he's entitled to his opinion on the matter....na,war criminals shouldint be allowed an opinion.
He's not a war criminal though.....unless of course you prefer mob justice instead of the rule of law.the war in iraq was illegal though and was done so purely for financial gain.but he sucked American dick and done it anyway so yea international law was broken and if any third world leader done the same he would be prosecuted as such.yea it had nothing to do with 911 and more to do with Saddams threat of changing dollar for oil to gold for oil jus like gadaffi done and look what happend to him olso lol.
It wasn't, the PM has the power to take the country to war, he did so with parliamentary approval.
He only got that approval because he lied - lies that were way, way bigger, and more heinous, than any that were told by either side in the referendum campaign. Lies that sent our own men and women to their deaths, and lies that have ultimately sent hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of others to their deaths.
But the PM has the power to declare war without parliamentary approval anyway. .
So pm,s make shit decisions and so does parliament!!....i reckon if you had a referendum on the Iraq invasion it would have been a mighty big no vote?
Thats the system we have. "
.
Yes but do you think it would have been good or bad for parliament in they're eternal wisdom to overturn the public vote not to go into Iraq?....I mean they knew stuff we didn't know apparently?.
Don't get me wrong I think the public make as many shit decisions as parliament does, but at least they're intentions are "honest" |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"Like anyone else as a British citizen he's entitled to his opinion on the matter....na,war criminals shouldint be allowed an opinion.
He's not a war criminal though.....unless of course you prefer mob justice instead of the rule of law.the war in iraq was illegal though and was done so purely for financial gain.but he sucked American dick and done it anyway so yea international law was broken and if any third world leader done the same he would be prosecuted as such.yea it had nothing to do with 911 and more to do with Saddams threat of changing dollar for oil to gold for oil jus like gadaffi done and look what happend to him olso lol.
It wasn't, the PM has the power to take the country to war, he did so with parliamentary approval.
He only got that approval because he lied - lies that were way, way bigger, and more heinous, than any that were told by either side in the referendum campaign. Lies that sent our own men and women to their deaths, and lies that have ultimately sent hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of others to their deaths.
But the PM has the power to declare war without parliamentary approval anyway. .
So pm,s make shit decisions and so does parliament!!....i reckon if you had a referendum on the Iraq invasion it would have been a mighty big no vote?
Thats the system we have. .
Yes but do you think it would have been good or bad for parliament in they're eternal wisdom to overturn the public vote not to go into Iraq?....I mean they knew stuff we didn't know apparently?.
Don't get me wrong I think the public make as many shit decisions as parliament does, but at least they're intentions are "honest""
There wasn't a public vote. |
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"The public would rather stay.
I'd say they had changed their minds but actually the majority always wanted to stay, but a lot of leave voters have certainly changed their minds. I thought that the result was to leave . I can see little evidence of people changing their opinion?. With all the good news that has been announced recently , why would anyone want to change their mind. "
I'm not seeing the public changing their minds either. Question Time on BBC 1 last Thursday was held in an area that voted Leave and that was reflected in the audience, it was a mainly pro Leave audience. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I see Mandy has now put his two penneth in the ring.Now there's a surprise.
I can accept that there are many who voted remain who have genuine concerns and it's ok to voice them. Bit let's be clear. A vote was taken, a decision given and there's no going back.
My problem with the likes of Blair & Mandy etc are that they are the consumate politicians despite their elaborate arguments I cannot bring myself to believe a word they say.
So even if the country decided actually THEY dont want to leave anymore, you still think they should be forced to? Even if the electorate don't want to leave? "
We've had the vote it was to leave, we were already told there would be no second referendum so what is the point of having one at all if were just going to keep doing it until the minority get the result they want. Despite all the doom mongering and people's natural aversion to change we still voted out so to me at least that's a rather large statement, and what's this 52% of 74% rubbish it was 52% of 100% who bothered to vote if you didn't vote then tough luck it's not like you couldve forgot there was a referendum is it. |
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"Well he's back.
This time calling the Brexit vote a
" foolish excursion into populism "
Here's a translation. ...."many politicians and those who wield power can't abide the thought that the electorate can make decisions for themselves ""
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As we are living in interesting times, surely it's no surprise to hear the lid of the coffin in the vault creak open and for the messianic psychopath to return to save the day with his hilarious pearls of wisdom. |
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"He is also concerned that we the electorate were fed so much bullshit from both camps....and he's right on that."
But that would mean we would have to rerun every election as we have always been fed bullshit by politicians and more worryingly the establishment media ? I think most people just accept a lot of what we are told is bullshit and factor that into their voting . |
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