FabSwingers.com > Forums > Politics > NHS safe in Tory hands? Discuss!
NHS safe in Tory hands? Discuss!
Jump to: Newest in thread
An extra £20 billion efficiency savings announced by Jeremy Cunt by 2020, while an extra £5.5 billion is being put out to private tender.
That is £20 billion in CUTS, and £5.5 billion privatised. While NHS hospital trusts are going bankrupt.
When did the NHS become a business? How can a private company run for profit deliver a better service than a non profit medical trust?
does anyone really believe that the NHS is safe in tory hands? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
 |
By *anes HubbyCouple
over a year ago
Babbacombe Torquay |
Jeremy Hunt, like most ministers, is carrying out the plan forwarded to him by faceless civil servants, yes he does believe in their overall vision of the NHS but he's just the mouthpiece for a group of so called expert civil servants.
I do believe that the Conservative game plan has for the last Six years been to place as much into the hands of the private sector as they can get away with.
We have an ever increasing ageing population that will push the NHS budget up year on year, the government needs to show the UK public that it recognises this by increasing the budget equally year on year.....and it isn't. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
Not sure if the problem is the NHS being safe in anyone's hands or our perception of what we think the NHS should be. The world has massively changed in terms of life expectation and survivability of once fatal diseases and illnesses. We need to also change our minds because we can't expect the NHS to stay the same in an ever changing world. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Not sure if the problem is the NHS being safe in anyone's hands or our perception of what we think the NHS should be. The world has massively changed in terms of life expectation and survivability of once fatal diseases and illnesses. We need to also change our minds because we can't expect the NHS to stay the same in an ever changing world."
 I was going to say something similar.
While we all support the NHS, it is unfortunately an impossibility to fund a perfect health system. There will always have to be decisions made based on pecuniary factors, sad though that may be in human terms.
I don't think either that the Tories are hell-bent on privatising as much of the NHS as possible. The OP might want to look back at Mr Blair's record in that arena. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
We are incredibly fortunate to have a National Health Service, most countries in the world don't, and their citizens have to take out insurance to cover the price of any health care.
The fact that life expectancy has increased owes much to the NHS. We are living longer because overall we are much healthier. Those who are unfortunately suffering illness are well looked after, and end of life care is excellent. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I'm going to voice something that might be unpopular and 2 years ago I never thought I'd say, but having chatted to some of the european students and professors I work with it might be a conceivable system.
How about a tiered NHS whereby if you are on a low income job or in the household income bracket where after tax you are left with very little, you get free at the point of access, whilst on the flipside if you are in another tax bracket or on a higher salary eg, £30,000, then you get put on an insurance based scheme, or you can go private.
The latter part might increase private healthcare competition in this this country, giving those on higher salaries to use that route, whilst keeping the NHS for those who require it.
Obviously this would be deeply unpopular I imagine but it was just a brainstormed idea. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"You will never see the promise they did to give nhs £350 a week.
You missed out the million but, in any event, this is not a Brexit thread."
That is right. I did forget the million there and no I reckon it wont survive, unless someone else takes over it. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I think like any massive public body the NHS is massively badly managed financially which wouldn't be allowed to continue if it was in the private sector. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"We are incredibly fortunate to have a National Health Service, most countries in the world don't, and their citizens have to take out insurance to cover the price of any health care.
The fact that life expectancy has increased owes much to the NHS. We are living longer because overall we are much healthier. Those who are unfortunately suffering illness are well looked after, and end of life care is excellent."
Where do you get the idea that "most" countries in the world have only private insurance funded healthcare? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"You will never see the promise they did to give nhs £350 a week.
You missed out the million but, in any event, this is not a Brexit thread.That is right. I did forget the million there and no I reckon it wont survive, unless someone else takes over it."
.
Why would any company take on the NHS which by all accounts according to some on here is a giant lots making bag of shite filled with people who don't need treatment?.
.
I like it when people say.... It's no longer affordable since people started to live longer??? Just what the fuck.
Firstly the NHS was designed to get people to live longer, so it did it's job.
Secondly .... What's the solution to not being able to afford people living longer.... Err dieing younger!!
Turkeys and xmas comes mind yet again  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
Firstly in answer to the point made about Blair, I think that you will find that I have never described him or the government he led as socialist, in fact I have always described him as either a 'red tory' or 'torylite'.
Second, I keep hearing that 'the world has changed' and 'we are much richer now than in the bad old days of the 60's and 70's'. Yet having lived through both of those periods I never heard of people needing food banks or hospitals being closed for lack of money, or patients being kept in ambulances outside hospitals because there was no room in A&E in the 60's and 70's.
But what I have heard for many years now is 'efficiency savings' in all branches of government, that is CUTS to finance reducing the tax burden on the super rich and corporate world.
Maybe today's Briton is not quite the utopia that some think and 60's and 70's more socialist Briton was not as bad as we are told by those who fear a return to a system where the government did not pander to the super wealthy corporations and individuals.
Just a thought... |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I'm going to voice something that might be unpopular and 2 years ago I never thought I'd say, but having chatted to some of the european students and professors I work with it might be a conceivable system.
How about a tiered NHS whereby if you are on a low income job or in the household income bracket where after tax you are left with very little, you get free at the point of access, whilst on the flipside if you are in another tax bracket or on a higher salary eg, £30,000, then you get put on an insurance based scheme, or you can go private.
The latter part might increase private healthcare competition in this this country, giving those on higher salaries to use that route, whilst keeping the NHS for those who require it.
Obviously this would be deeply unpopular I imagine but it was just a brainstormed idea."
S go to uni get a job earning £27,000 a year and get offered promotion with a salary of £31,000.
you have existing medical conditions that involve very high insurance costs for private healthcare.
Do you stay in your current job? or earn more for no benefit?. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"Not sure if the problem is the NHS being safe in anyone's hands or our perception of what we think the NHS should be. The world has massively changed in terms of life expectation and survivability of once fatal diseases and illnesses. We need to also change our minds because we can't expect the NHS to stay the same in an ever changing world."
exelent post |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Firstly in answer to the point made about Blair, I think that you will find that I have never described him or the government he led as socialist, in fact I have always described him as either a 'red tory' or 'torylite'.
Second, I keep hearing that 'the world has changed' and 'we are much richer now than in the bad old days of the 60's and 70's'. Yet having lived through both of those periods I never heard of people needing food banks or hospitals being closed for lack of money, or patients being kept in ambulances outside hospitals because there was no room in A&E in the 60's and 70's.
But what I have heard for many years now is 'efficiency savings' in all branches of government, that is CUTS to finance reducing the tax burden on the super rich and corporate world.
Maybe today's Briton is not quite the utopia that some think and 60's and 70's more socialist Briton was not as bad as we are told by those who fear a return to a system where the government did not pander to the super wealthy corporations and individuals.
Just a thought..."
I don't think there is anything wrong with seeking efficiency within the NHS. I have heard many people within the NHS saying that it needs to be made more efficient. And, no, that doesn't equate to cutting the taxes of the super-rich. It just equates to making the NHS more efficient. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Firstly in answer to the point made about Blair, I think that you will find that I have never described him or the government he led as socialist, in fact I have always described him as either a 'red tory' or 'torylite'.
Second, I keep hearing that 'the world has changed' and 'we are much richer now than in the bad old days of the 60's and 70's'. Yet having lived through both of those periods I never heard of people needing food banks or hospitals being closed for lack of money, or patients being kept in ambulances outside hospitals because there was no room in A&E in the 60's and 70's.
But what I have heard for many years now is 'efficiency savings' in all branches of government, that is CUTS to finance reducing the tax burden on the super rich and corporate world.
Maybe today's Briton is not quite the utopia that some think and 60's and 70's more socialist Briton was not as bad as we are told by those who fear a return to a system where the government did not pander to the super wealthy corporations and individuals.
Just a thought..."
you mean like before we joined the EEC?  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Firstly in answer to the point made about Blair, I think that you will find that I have never described him or the government he led as socialist, in fact I have always described him as either a 'red tory' or 'torylite'.
Second, I keep hearing that 'the world has changed' and 'we are much richer now than in the bad old days of the 60's and 70's'. Yet having lived through both of those periods I never heard of people needing food banks or hospitals being closed for lack of money, or patients being kept in ambulances outside hospitals because there was no room in A&E in the 60's and 70's.
But what I have heard for many years now is 'efficiency savings' in all branches of government, that is CUTS to finance reducing the tax burden on the super rich and corporate world.
Maybe today's Briton is not quite the utopia that some think and 60's and 70's more socialist Briton was not as bad as we are told by those who fear a return to a system where the government did not pander to the super wealthy corporations and individuals.
Just a thought..."
Ah, yes, those great days of Harold Wilson.
Wonderful. A panacea.
Do you recall those great 3-day working weeks? Hunkering down beside a candle in the cold? That wonderful magical family feeling.
The cuts to the NHS in dentistry and other areas.
My, that was so wonderful. Thank you for reminding me of those lovely years. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I'm going to voice something that might be unpopular and 2 years ago I never thought I'd say, but having chatted to some of the european students and professors I work with it might be a conceivable system.
How about a tiered NHS whereby if you are on a low income job or in the household income bracket where after tax you are left with very little, you get free at the point of access, whilst on the flipside if you are in another tax bracket or on a higher salary eg, £30,000, then you get put on an insurance based scheme, or you can go private.
The latter part might increase private healthcare competition in this this country, giving those on higher salaries to use that route, whilst keeping the NHS for those who require it.
Obviously this would be deeply unpopular I imagine but it was just a brainstormed idea.
S go to uni get a job earning £27,000 a year and get offered promotion with a salary of £31,000.
you have existing medical conditions that involve very high insurance costs for private healthcare.
Do you stay in your current job? or earn more for no benefit?."
You realise I only used the £30,000 thing as a hypothetical example right, and pft, earning "27,000 I wish! And a promotion, you're giving me wet dreams now
But seriously, I know what I said is not popular, however, if you eread what I said I was on about if it was strictly done in a tiered and regulated way. I believe in the dutch and french systems, if you get a pay rise but just nudge into the next tax bracket you can provide evidence to support it and you will go back down to your original pay.
Done correctly it is flexible, and as my mum works in the NHS she has frequently complained about well off people using the service, complaining about it because it is underfunded, oversubscribed and therefore a bit clunky, when said people could afford to go private and free up slots for those who direly need it. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
Do you recall those great 3-day working weeks? Hunkering down beside a candle in the cold? That wonderful magical family feeling.
"
.
The three day working week was brought on by the world wide problem of the 70s energy crises... They literally had to limit business to three days of energy!.... It's hardly the fault of 70s politics and more to do with the 1946 creation of Israel |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
Do you recall those great 3-day working weeks? Hunkering down beside a candle in the cold? That wonderful magical family feeling.
.
The three day working week was brought on by the world wide problem of the 70s energy crises... They literally had to limit business to three days of energy!.... It's hardly the fault of 70s politics and more to do with the 1946 creation of Israel"
I was pointing out that Labour do not have a record to be proud of in managing and resourcing the NHS.
By the way, I have no idea why the foundation of Israel brought about strikes under Wilson's government, but I am sure that you can enlighten me. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
Do you recall those great 3-day working weeks? Hunkering down beside a candle in the cold? That wonderful magical family feeling.
.
The three day working week was brought on by the world wide problem of the 70s energy crises... They literally had to limit business to three days of energy!.... It's hardly the fault of 70s politics and more to do with the 1946 creation of Israel"
Yep!
3 day working week was caused by OPEC reducing production of oil and banning sale of oil to the USA causing a global fuel crisis.
How do you think we would fair today if OPEC were to do the same again? I would suggest that things would be much worse as a result of Thatchers destruction of the coal industry. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I was pointing out that Labour do not have a record to be proud of in managing and resourcing the NHS.
By the way, I have no idea why the foundation of Israel brought about strikes under Wilson's government, but I am sure that you can enlighten me."
Right, labour gave us the NHS, labour built it and made it the envy of the world. That does not fit with your version of history so i must have it wrong.
As for Wilson your right what did he and his government do for us? Well lets see what did he do for us? You may not think it worth mention, but he managed to keep us out of the Vietnam war when the USA owned us and wanted our participation (the only post war PM who managed to keep us out of US wars). But as I originally said that's not worth mentioning, and as you say building the NHS into a world beating health service and eliminating polio from the UK is not anything to be proud of...
I could go on but, you and those with your mindset don't want to hear. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I was pointing out that Labour do not have a record to be proud of in managing and resourcing the NHS.
By the way, I have no idea why the foundation of Israel brought about strikes under Wilson's government, but I am sure that you can enlighten me.
Right, labour gave us the NHS, labour built it and made it the envy of the world. That does not fit with your version of history so i must have it wrong.
As for Wilson your right what did he and his government do for us? Well lets see what did he do for us? You may not think it worth mention, but he managed to keep us out of the Vietnam war when the USA owned us and wanted our participation (the only post war PM who managed to keep us out of US wars). But as I originally said that's not worth mentioning, and as you say building the NHS into a world beating health service and eliminating polio from the UK is not anything to be proud of...
I could go on but, you and those with your mindset don't want to hear."
Not at all. You misinterpret my mindset.
The NHS is to be proud of.
But don't let that blind you to efficiency savings or the fact that it can be made better but will always have limits. That is just commonsensical.
Wilson presided over a government which reduced NHS access so please do not suggest that Labour has always done it's best for the NHS. Blair was hell-bent on privatising it, so don't go looking for justification there, either.
Yup, they founded it. And I give them great credit for it.
And to the previous poster? A little more complex than the founding of Israel caused Wilson to declare a 3-day working week. It was the OPAEC who boycotted the USA. It coincided with coal miners strikes in this country. He was unable to rally enough support to prevent cuts to the NHS.
There is no panacea. It comes down to how much each and everyone of us are prepared to contribute to the NHS. If it were 100% of our wages, it would still not be enough to save every poor suffering soul in our land. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"An extra £20 billion efficiency savings announced by Jeremy Cunt by 2020, while an extra £5.5 billion is being put out to private tender.
That is £20 billion in CUTS, and £5.5 billion privatised. While NHS hospital trusts are going bankrupt.
When did the NHS become a business? How can a private company run for profit deliver a better service than a non profit medical trust?
does anyone really believe that the NHS is safe in tory hands?"
The NHS isn't safe in the hands of the public who fail to take some responsibility for their own health, or managers who fail to check eligibility of people to free care. So government is only partly responsible for the state it is in x |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"An extra £20 billion efficiency savings announced by Jeremy Cunt by 2020, while an extra £5.5 billion is being put out to private tender.
That is £20 billion in CUTS, and £5.5 billion privatised. While NHS hospital trusts are going bankrupt.
When did the NHS become a business? How can a private company run for profit deliver a better service than a non profit medical trust?
does anyone really believe that the NHS is safe in tory hands?"
 It does not make any difference what party is managing it , though the Conservatives have a much greater interest in proving a decent NHS than the Labour party. That is why people voted for and returned a Conservative Government as they knew the the NHS would be in safe hands .
One of the problems is that it is a World Health Service and we allow to many overseas residents to use it .
Everyone using the NHS should be compelled to provide ID . Without it treatment should be refused .
We also need to have much greater control over Doctors and refuse to be blackmailed by them over pay negotiations .
A lot of work currently undertaken by Doctors could probably be undertaken by nurses . |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"An extra £20 billion efficiency savings announced by Jeremy Cunt by 2020, while an extra £5.5 billion is being put out to private tender.
That is £20 billion in CUTS, and £5.5 billion privatised. While NHS hospital trusts are going bankrupt.
When did the NHS become a business? How can a private company run for profit deliver a better service than a non profit medical trust?
does anyone really believe that the NHS is safe in tory hands?"
Many private companies seem to offer a better health care service throughout most of the world than the NHS offers here. Maybe we should stop worrying about who's making a profit out of health and start looking at which systems actually deliver the best health outcomes for patients. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"We are incredibly fortunate to have a National Health Service, most countries in the world don't, and their citizens have to take out insurance to cover the price of any health care.
The fact that life expectancy has increased owes much to the NHS. We are living longer because overall we are much healthier. Those who are unfortunately suffering illness are well looked after, and end of life care is excellent."
Actually most wealthy countries in the world do have national health services which are either wholly, mostly or partly funded by their governments and most have far better patient outcomes than the NHS. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I'm going to voice something that might be unpopular and 2 years ago I never thought I'd say, but having chatted to some of the european students and professors I work with it might be a conceivable system.
How about a tiered NHS whereby if you are on a low income job or in the household income bracket where after tax you are left with very little, you get free at the point of access, whilst on the flipside if you are in another tax bracket or on a higher salary eg, £30,000, then you get put on an insurance based scheme, or you can go private.
The latter part might increase private healthcare competition in this this country, giving those on higher salaries to use that route, whilst keeping the NHS for those who require it.
Obviously this would be deeply unpopular I imagine but it was just a brainstormed idea."
I argued a similar point before the general election on this forum. The problem is, IMHO, that is this country we spend far too much money on making sure health care is 'free at the point of delivery'. The rest of the world puts its effort into making sure that health care is 'affordable at the point of delivery' |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Firstly in answer to the point made about Blair, I think that you will find that I have never described him or the government he led as socialist, in fact I have always described him as either a 'red tory' or 'torylite'.
Second, I keep hearing that 'the world has changed' and 'we are much richer now than in the bad old days of the 60's and 70's'. Yet having lived through both of those periods I never heard of people needing food banks or hospitals being closed for lack of money, or patients being kept in ambulances outside hospitals because there was no room in A&E in the 60's and 70's.
But what I have heard for many years now is 'efficiency savings' in all branches of government, that is CUTS to finance reducing the tax burden on the super rich and corporate world.
Maybe today's Briton is not quite the utopia that some think and 60's and 70's more socialist Briton was not as bad as we are told by those who fear a return to a system where the government did not pander to the super wealthy corporations and individuals.
Just a thought...
Ah, yes, those great days of Harold Wilson.
Wonderful. A panacea.
Do you recall those great 3-day working weeks? Hunkering down beside a candle in the cold? That wonderful magical family feeling.
The cuts to the NHS in dentistry and other areas.
My, that was so wonderful. Thank you for reminding me of those lovely years."
On a point of information. It was actually under Ted Heath (Con) that we had the 3-day week, not Harold Wilson (Lab).
However it was under Jim Callaghan (Lab) that the NHS budget was actually cut, not just left still or cut in real terms but actually cut in the amount of £s it got. Maybe this guy wants to go back to those 'good old socialist' days? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
Do you recall those great 3-day working weeks? Hunkering down beside a candle in the cold? That wonderful magical family feeling.
.
The three day working week was brought on by the world wide problem of the 70s energy crises... They literally had to limit business to three days of energy!.... It's hardly the fault of 70s politics and more to do with the 1946 creation of Israel"
On a point of information. The 3 day week was a direct result of the miners strike in 1974. Although the oil embargo in 1973 also contributed. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"An extra £20 billion efficiency savings announced by Jeremy Cunt by 2020, while an extra £5.5 billion is being put out to private tender.
That is £20 billion in CUTS, and £5.5 billion privatised. While NHS hospital trusts are going bankrupt.
When did the NHS become a business? How can a private company run for profit deliver a better service than a non profit medical trust?
does anyone really believe that the NHS is safe in tory hands? It does not make any difference what party is managing it , though the Conservatives have a much greater interest in proving a decent NHS than the Labour party. That is why people voted for and returned a Conservative Government as they knew the the NHS would be in safe hands .
One of the problems is that it is a World Health Service and we allow to many overseas residents to use it .
Everyone using the NHS should be compelled to provide ID . Without it treatment should be refused .
We also need to have much greater control over Doctors and refuse to be blackmailed by them over pay negotiations .
A lot of work currently undertaken by Doctors could probably be undertaken by nurses . "
I think insisting that people show ID before they can receive even emergency health treatment would be going a bit far, they don't even refuse emergency treatment in the US. However I do think that the NHS should measure in place to identify who is actually entitled to care from their NHS insurance and who is not. Those who are not should be billed or their insurance company. The rest of the world has no problem in doing this, why do we? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Everyone using the NHS should be compelled to provide ID . Without it treatment should be refused . "
If you think any doctor is going to refuse to treat a patient...
"
A lot of work currently undertaken by Doctors could probably be undertaken by nurses . "
Talking out your arse there Pat, right out of your arsehole |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
Many private companies seem to offer a better health care service throughout most of the world than the NHS offers here. Maybe we should stop worrying about who's making a profit out of health and start looking at which systems actually deliver the best health outcomes for patients."
All fine and dandy till there's a complication then guess where that fee paying private patient gets taken... |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I'm going to voice something that might be unpopular and 2 years ago I never thought I'd say, but having chatted to some of the european students and professors I work with it might be a conceivable system.
How about a tiered NHS whereby if you are on a low income job or in the household income bracket where after tax you are left with very little, you get free at the point of access, whilst on the flipside if you are in another tax bracket or on a higher salary eg, £30,000, then you get put on an insurance based scheme, or you can go private.
The latter part might increase private healthcare competition in this this country, giving those on higher salaries to use that route, whilst keeping the NHS for those who require it.
Obviously this would be deeply unpopular I imagine but it was just a brainstormed idea.
I argued a similar point before the general election on this forum. The problem is, IMHO, that is this country we spend far too much money on making sure health care is 'free at the point of delivery'. The rest of the world puts its effort into making sure that health care is 'affordable at the point of delivery'"
Excellent post . The NHS is not a bottomless pit. Extra funding will not resolve all the underlying issues. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
Many private companies seem to offer a better health care service throughout most of the world than the NHS offers here. Maybe we should stop worrying about who's making a profit out of health and start looking at which systems actually deliver the best health outcomes for patients.
All fine and dandy till there's a complication then guess where that fee paying private patient gets taken..."
The fee paying patients have already paid for the NHS and not used it by going private . They save the NHS considerable sums of money and probably have a more responsible attitude towards their health. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *anes HubbyCouple
over a year ago
Babbacombe Torquay |
"HEALTH TOURISM
.
the practice of travelling abroad (to UK) in order to receive medical treatment
.
google it, you may be shocked."
Health tourism is a piss in the ocean for the NHS, even the BMA say its impact upon NHS resources is over exaggerated.
It's a UKIP sound bite...... |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"HEALTH TOURISM
.
the practice of travelling abroad (to UK) in order to receive medical treatment
.
google it, you may be shocked.
Health tourism is a piss in the ocean for the NHS, even the BMA say its impact upon NHS resources is over exaggerated.
It's a UKIP sound bite......"
I agree, health tourism is over stated as a problem and either way systems exist to recoup the money either from a persons health insurance or the any national health service provider in that person's country of origin. All other countries im the world do this. I don't understand why we don't. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"HEALTH TOURISM
.
the practice of travelling abroad (to UK) in order to receive medical treatment
.
google it, you may be shocked.
Health tourism is a piss in the ocean for the NHS, even the BMA say its impact upon NHS resources is over exaggerated.
It's a UKIP sound bite......"
Sorry people estimate it to cost up to £2 billion pounds and every health tourist misusing the service delays treatment for others .
Regardless of the amount spent , it still needs to be clamped down on rigorously .
Every saving no matter how small helps . |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"HEALTH TOURISM
.
the practice of travelling abroad (to UK) in order to receive medical treatment
.
google it, you may be shocked.
Health tourism is a piss in the ocean for the NHS, even the BMA say its impact upon NHS resources is over exaggerated.
It's a UKIP sound bite...... Sorry people estimate it to cost up to £2 billion pounds and every health tourist misusing the service delays treatment for others .
Regardless of the amount spent , it still needs to be clamped down on rigorously .
Every saving no matter how small helps ."
Well if the NHS was run properly; it would not be an issue ( it isn't in most other countries) all they have to do is check entitlements first. And make the rest pay.
That's what every other country does |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *anes HubbyCouple
over a year ago
Babbacombe Torquay |
"HEALTH TOURISM
.
the practice of travelling abroad (to UK) in order to receive medical treatment
.
google it, you may be shocked.
Health tourism is a piss in the ocean for the NHS, even the BMA say its impact upon NHS resources is over exaggerated.
It's a UKIP sound bite...... Sorry people estimate it to cost up to £2 billion pounds and every health tourist misusing the service delays treatment for others .
Regardless of the amount spent , it still needs to be clamped down on rigorously .
Every saving no matter how small helps ."
'People' estimate it?, what people exactly?
The EHIC arrangement between countries within the EU meant when I had to receive emergency surgery to remove a ruptured Gall bladder in Spain the costs were paid for by the NHS under the EU retrieval scheme.
The reason it goes wrong in this country is our local health authorities often fuck up the protocol for retrieving costs incurred.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *anes HubbyCouple
over a year ago
Babbacombe Torquay |
"HEALTH TOURISM
.
the practice of travelling abroad (to UK) in order to receive medical treatment
.
google it, you may be shocked.
Health tourism is a piss in the ocean for the NHS, even the BMA say its impact upon NHS resources is over exaggerated.
It's a UKIP sound bite...... Sorry people estimate it to cost up to £2 billion pounds and every health tourist misusing the service delays treatment for others .
Regardless of the amount spent , it still needs to be clamped down on rigorously .
Every saving no matter how small helps .
Well if the NHS was run properly; it would not be an issue ( it isn't in most other countries) all they have to do is check entitlements first. And make the rest pay.
That's what every other country does"
Exactly..... |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"HEALTH TOURISM
.
the practice of travelling abroad (to UK) in order to receive medical treatment
.
google it, you may be shocked.
Health tourism is a piss in the ocean for the NHS, even the BMA say its impact upon NHS resources is over exaggerated.
It's a UKIP sound bite......
I agree, health tourism is over stated as a problem and either way systems exist to recoup the money either from a persons health insurance or the any national health service provider in that person's country of origin. All other countries im the world do this. I don't understand why we don't."
Might have been to a UKIP meeting in Leeds with a few student nurses and academic staff with that stats and papers to back that up. Funnily enough, nobody wanted to look at cold hard facts by professionals who worked at varying levels in the NHS. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"HEALTH TOURISM
.
the practice of travelling abroad (to UK) in order to receive medical treatment
.
google it, you may be shocked.
Health tourism is a piss in the ocean for the NHS, even the BMA say its impact upon NHS resources is over exaggerated.
It's a UKIP sound bite...... Sorry people estimate it to cost up to £2 billion pounds and every health tourist misusing the service delays treatment for others .
Regardless of the amount spent , it still needs to be clamped down on rigorously .
Every saving no matter how small helps .
Well if the NHS was run properly; it would not be an issue ( it isn't in most other countries) all they have to do is check entitlements first. And make the rest pay.
That's what every other country does"
However , I do not think other countries get the same level of health tourists as we do. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"HEALTH TOURISM
.
the practice of travelling abroad (to UK) in order to receive medical treatment
.
google it, you may be shocked.
Health tourism is a piss in the ocean for the NHS, even the BMA say its impact upon NHS resources is over exaggerated.
It's a UKIP sound bite...... Sorry people estimate it to cost up to £2 billion pounds and every health tourist misusing the service delays treatment for others .
Regardless of the amount spent , it still needs to be clamped down on rigorously .
Every saving no matter how small helps .
Well if the NHS was run properly; it would not be an issue ( it isn't in most other countries) all they have to do is check entitlements first. And make the rest pay.
That's what every other country does However , I do not think other countries get the same level of health tourists as we do. "
Depends what you mean by tourists ;
France treats a lot of foreigners ;
Specialities being cancer and cardiac, mostly;
But if you are not on the French system; you pay up front.
Germany, Poland, Bulgaria are also popular for surgery such as hip and knee replacements, as well as heart and cancer treatments, and eye surgery. India has a thriving health tourism industry ( it's used partially to fund the hospitals )
Eastern Europe does a roaring trade in dentistry ;
You can get dental work done in Bulgaria, Romania, Czech Republic and Poland, that you can only dream of in UK; ( techniques that are simply not available in UK) as good quality as France and the US.
All of the above require payment up front; snd have the capacity to provide it.
The issue in UK is that as it has virtually no checks on who gets treated, and by and large no idea how much anything costs; lots of people take advantage of it for sImple stuff |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"HEALTH TOURISM
.
the practice of travelling abroad (to UK) in order to receive medical treatment
.
google it, you may be shocked.
Health tourism is a piss in the ocean for the NHS, even the BMA say its impact upon NHS resources is over exaggerated.
It's a UKIP sound bite...... Sorry people estimate it to cost up to £2 billion pounds and every health tourist misusing the service delays treatment for others .
Regardless of the amount spent , it still needs to be clamped down on rigorously .
Every saving no matter how small helps .
Well if the NHS was run properly; it would not be an issue ( it isn't in most other countries) all they have to do is check entitlements first. And make the rest pay.
That's what every other country does However , I do not think other countries get the same level of health tourists as we do.
Depends what you mean by tourists ;
France treats a lot of foreigners ;
Specialities being cancer and cardiac, mostly;
But if you are not on the French system; you pay up front.
Germany, Poland, Bulgaria are also popular for surgery such as hip and knee replacements, as well as heart and cancer treatments, and eye surgery. India has a thriving health tourism industry ( it's used partially to fund the hospitals )
Eastern Europe does a roaring trade in dentistry ;
You can get dental work done in Bulgaria, Romania, Czech Republic and Poland, that you can only dream of in UK; ( techniques that are simply not available in UK) as good quality as France and the US.
All of the above require payment up front; snd have the capacity to provide it.
The issue in UK is that as it has virtually no checks on who gets treated, and by and large no idea how much anything costs; lots of people take advantage of it for sImple stuff"
Agreed, if anything we should be looking to regulate 'health tourism' in order to fund the NHS more effectively.
And honestly if we deserve better than the EU we should probably ensure we get all those medical and dental specialists that do what we cannot, t bolster our services as well as to train our own.
Shame though, doubt you could get them here without a couple of pretty pennies |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"HEALTH TOURISM
.
the practice of travelling abroad (to UK) in order to receive medical treatment
.
google it, you may be shocked.
Health tourism is a piss in the ocean for the NHS, even the BMA say its impact upon NHS resources is over exaggerated.
It's a UKIP sound bite...... Sorry people estimate it to cost up to £2 billion pounds and every health tourist misusing the service delays treatment for others .
Regardless of the amount spent , it still needs to be clamped down on rigorously .
Every saving no matter how small helps .
Well if the NHS was run properly; it would not be an issue ( it isn't in most other countries) all they have to do is check entitlements first. And make the rest pay.
That's what every other country does However , I do not think other countries get the same level of health tourists as we do. "
I think some do but it's not a problem for them because they have the systems in place to recoup the costs. If run and managed properly health tourism can actually be an additional source of income rather than an extra burden on a health service. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
The xenophobia and scare mongering is based on a lot of ignorance and bigotry. 3 London NHS hospitals have charged £40 millions in a year for overseas visitors. And the supposed lost money is 0.01% of the budget. To change the system it's predicted to cost more than that amount.
The flames were fanned by the extremists and media with an axe to grind. It's smoke and mirrors and deflects from the question of how safe the NHS is in tory hands. Divide and conquer, as used since world war two, at least. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
What a load of old tut I'm reading here. It is high time that British hospitals stopped providing treatment to anyone without a national insurance number, unless they pay up front.
They should also require ID to prove that said national insurance number is theirs. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"What a load of old tut I'm reading here. It is high time that British hospitals stopped providing treatment to anyone without a national insurance number, unless they pay up front.
They should also require ID to prove that said national insurance number is theirs."
you want a National ID scheme for all in the UK then?
very big brother that you know..
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *anes HubbyCouple
over a year ago
Babbacombe Torquay |
"What a load of old tut I'm reading here. It is high time that British hospitals stopped providing treatment to anyone without a national insurance number, unless they pay up front.
They should also require ID to prove that said national insurance number is theirs."
Thanks but I'm not in any hurry to be a citizen of a country where you would be open to being stopped in the street by a policeman demanding to see your ID card.....because that's where ID cards would take us. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"What a load of old tut I'm reading here. It is high time that British hospitals stopped providing treatment to anyone without a national insurance number, unless they pay up front.
They should also require ID to prove that said national insurance number is theirs.
Thanks but I'm not in any hurry to be a citizen of a country where you would be open to being stopped in the street by a policeman demanding to see your ID card.....because that's where ID cards would take us."
don't they have them in other EU countries? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *anes HubbyCouple
over a year ago
Babbacombe Torquay |
"What a load of old tut I'm reading here. It is high time that British hospitals stopped providing treatment to anyone without a national insurance number, unless they pay up front.
They should also require ID to prove that said national insurance number is theirs.
Thanks but I'm not in any hurry to be a citizen of a country where you would be open to being stopped in the street by a policeman demanding to see your ID card.....because that's where ID cards would take us.
don't they have them in other EU countries?"
I'm not living in other EU countries though....I'm living here, and I don't want ID cards in my country. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"What a load of old tut I'm reading here. It is high time that British hospitals stopped providing treatment to anyone without a national insurance number, unless they pay up front.
They should also require ID to prove that said national insurance number is theirs.
Thanks but I'm not in any hurry to be a citizen of a country where you would be open to being stopped in the street by a policeman demanding to see your ID card.....because that's where ID cards would take us.
don't they have them in other EU countries?
I'm not living in other EU countries though....I'm living here, and I don't want ID cards in my country."
and the EU might not make it compulsory/regulate it? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"What a load of old tut I'm reading here. It is high time that British hospitals stopped providing treatment to anyone without a national insurance number, unless they pay up front.
They should also require ID to prove that said national insurance number is theirs.
Thanks but I'm not in any hurry to be a citizen of a country where you would be open to being stopped in the street by a policeman demanding to see your ID card.....because that's where ID cards would take us.
don't they have them in other EU countries?
I'm not living in other EU countries though....I'm living here, and I don't want ID cards in my country.
and the EU might not make it compulsory/regulate it?"
Im 43 and have never had any dealings with the police and in my opinion the only people afraid of id cards would be those with something to hide
As for the nhs they really need to start running it more like a business they could probably save more than the 20bn in better procurement alone |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"What a load of old tut I'm reading here. It is high time that British hospitals stopped providing treatment to anyone without a national insurance number, unless they pay up front.
They should also require ID to prove that said national insurance number is theirs."
An excellent idea. Even better if it has a chip linking it to other government databases.
If someone was required to scan their id everytime they used the NHS we may potentially obtain a lot of very usefull data . |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"What a load of old tut I'm reading here. It is high time that British hospitals stopped providing treatment to anyone without a national insurance number, unless they pay up front.
They should also require ID to prove that said national insurance number is theirs.
Thanks but I'm not in any hurry to be a citizen of a country where you would be open to being stopped in the street by a policeman demanding to see your ID card.....because that's where ID cards would take us.
don't they have them in other EU countries?
I'm not living in other EU countries though....I'm living here, and I don't want ID cards in my country."
That is fair enough . It would just mean that you could not use the NHS . You do not walk into Tescos and refuse to pay. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"What a load of old tut I'm reading here. It is high time that British hospitals stopped providing treatment to anyone without a national insurance number, unless they pay up front.
They should also require ID to prove that said national insurance number is theirs.
Thanks but I'm not in any hurry to be a citizen of a country where you would be open to being stopped in the street by a policeman demanding to see your ID card.....because that's where ID cards would take us.
don't they have them in other EU countries?
I'm not living in other EU countries though....I'm living here, and I don't want ID cards in my country. That is fair enough . It would just mean that you could not use the NHS . You do not walk into Tescos and refuse to pay. "
Here we gave a " Carte Vitale" health card.
It has your name, social security number and photo on it ( but it's not an official ID card).
It also has a chip in it.
Whenever you go to hospital, Doctor, or pharmacist , the card goes in a reader; it links to the central computer and confirms your entitlement .
A doctor can also bring up your entire medical records on it.
( which means you can go to any doctor, and get treatment if you are away from home, and the doctor can check your records.)
If you don't have a card, then you pay; and then ( if you think you have an entitlement) claim back costs.
Non French show their EHIC; it is up to the individual health provider whether they make you pay, and give you the claim form to send in to your own country's health system, or treat you free, and pass the costs to the other country through the intergovernmental system.
Works perfectly.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"What a load of old tut I'm reading here. It is high time that British hospitals stopped providing treatment to anyone without a national insurance number, unless they pay up front.
They should also require ID to prove that said national insurance number is theirs.
Thanks but I'm not in any hurry to be a citizen of a country where you would be open to being stopped in the street by a policeman demanding to see your ID card.....because that's where ID cards would take us.
don't they have them in other EU countries?
I'm not living in other EU countries though....I'm living here, and I don't want ID cards in my country.
and the EU might not make it compulsory/regulate it?
Im 43 and have never had any dealings with the police and in my opinion the only people afraid of id cards would be those with something to hide
As for the nhs they really need to start running it more like a business they could probably save more than the 20bn in better procurement alone"
ditto on the dealings with the police and would also not want an ID card system..
some of the comments from those who are keen to be monitored by the state are ironically reminiscent of how those in the USSR used to 'live' and maybe do so in Korea..
equally ironic is someone saying they have nothing to hide with their face blanked out on here.. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *anes HubbyCouple
over a year ago
Babbacombe Torquay |
"What a load of old tut I'm reading here. It is high time that British hospitals stopped providing treatment to anyone without a national insurance number, unless they pay up front.
They should also require ID to prove that said national insurance number is theirs.
Thanks but I'm not in any hurry to be a citizen of a country where you would be open to being stopped in the street by a policeman demanding to see your ID card.....because that's where ID cards would take us.
don't they have them in other EU countries?
I'm not living in other EU countries though....I'm living here, and I don't want ID cards in my country.
and the EU might not make it compulsory/regulate it?"
I MIGHT win the Euro lottery tonight, Michael Jackson MIGHT be found alive and living with Elvis.... |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"What a load of old tut I'm reading here. It is high time that British hospitals stopped providing treatment to anyone without a national insurance number, unless they pay up front.
They should also require ID to prove that said national insurance number is theirs.
Thanks but I'm not in any hurry to be a citizen of a country where you would be open to being stopped in the street by a policeman demanding to see your ID card.....because that's where ID cards would take us.
don't they have them in other EU countries?
I'm not living in other EU countries though....I'm living here, and I don't want ID cards in my country.
and the EU might not make it compulsory/regulate it?
Im 43 and have never had any dealings with the police and in my opinion the only people afraid of id cards would be those with something to hide
As for the nhs they really need to start running it more like a business they could probably save more than the 20bn in better procurement alone
ditto on the dealings with the police and would also not want an ID card system..
some of the comments from those who are keen to be monitored by the state are ironically reminiscent of how those in the USSR used to 'live' and maybe do so in Korea..
equally ironic is someone saying they have nothing to hide with their face blanked out on here.."
I do not think tbat anyone has proposed being monitored by the state . What is being suggested is a system to prevent financial fraud and misuse of the health service by those who are not entitled to use it . |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *anes HubbyCouple
over a year ago
Babbacombe Torquay |
We travel to various countries on business where citizens are required to carry an ID card at all times, police just randomly stop people and have them shoved into shop doorways checking them....not something I'd like to see in our country.
Our police would use it discriminately to harass certain groups within our society. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"What a load of old tut I'm reading here. It is high time that British hospitals stopped providing treatment to anyone without a national insurance number, unless they pay up front.
They should also require ID to prove that said national insurance number is theirs.
Thanks but I'm not in any hurry to be a citizen of a country where you would be open to being stopped in the street by a policeman demanding to see your ID card.....because that's where ID cards would take us.
don't they have them in other EU countries?
I'm not living in other EU countries though....I'm living here, and I don't want ID cards in my country.
and the EU might not make it compulsory/regulate it?
Im 43 and have never had any dealings with the police and in my opinion the only people afraid of id cards would be those with something to hide
As for the nhs they really need to start running it more like a business they could probably save more than the 20bn in better procurement alone
ditto on the dealings with the police and would also not want an ID card system..
some of the comments from those who are keen to be monitored by the state are ironically reminiscent of how those in the USSR used to 'live' and maybe do so in Korea..
equally ironic is someone saying they have nothing to hide with their face blanked out on here.. I do not think tbat anyone has proposed being monitored by the state . What is being suggested is a system to prevent financial fraud and misuse of the health service by those who are not entitled to use it ."
given the NHS and the governments record on major infrastructure in IT over the past 20 years I wont hold my breath that it will ever be up and running were it to be passed..
you don't think that those in power would not also want to access such thing? or it will be 'sponsored' by health insurance companies who will want access to long term health or hereditary health issues..
agree that the current issue's require addressing properly and need reform but an ID card will still not sort out the current problems..
that's admin.. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"What a load of old tut I'm reading here. It is high time that British hospitals stopped providing treatment to anyone without a national insurance number, unless they pay up front.
They should also require ID to prove that said national insurance number is theirs.
Thanks but I'm not in any hurry to be a citizen of a country where you would be open to being stopped in the street by a policeman demanding to see your ID card.....because that's where ID cards would take us.
don't they have them in other EU countries?
I'm not living in other EU countries though....I'm living here, and I don't want ID cards in my country.
and the EU might not make it compulsory/regulate it?
Im 43 and have never had any dealings with the police and in my opinion the only people afraid of id cards would be those with something to hide
As for the nhs they really need to start running it more like a business they could probably save more than the 20bn in better procurement alone
ditto on the dealings with the police and would also not want an ID card system..
some of the comments from those who are keen to be monitored by the state are ironically reminiscent of how those in the USSR used to 'live' and maybe do so in Korea..
equally ironic is someone saying they have nothing to hide with their face blanked out on here.. I do not think tbat anyone has proposed being monitored by the state . What is being suggested is a system to prevent financial fraud and misuse of the health service by those who are not entitled to use it .
given the NHS and the governments record on major infrastructure in IT over the past 20 years I wont hold my breath that it will ever be up and running were it to be passed..
you don't think that those in power would not also want to access such thing? or it will be 'sponsored' by health insurance companies who will want access to long term health or hereditary health issues..
agree that the current issue's require addressing properly and need reform but an ID card will still not sort out the current problems..
that's admin.."
But a chip and pin healthcare card (as I described above ) would fix it in a heartbeat . Problem is; UK with its disastrous record of IT project incompetence would never manage it. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"What a load of old tut I'm reading here. It is high time that British hospitals stopped providing treatment to anyone without a national insurance number, unless they pay up front.
They should also require ID to prove that said national insurance number is theirs.
Thanks but I'm not in any hurry to be a citizen of a country where you would be open to being stopped in the street by a policeman demanding to see your ID card.....because that's where ID cards would take us.
don't they have them in other EU countries?
I'm not living in other EU countries though....I'm living here, and I don't want ID cards in my country.
and the EU might not make it compulsory/regulate it?
Im 43 and have never had any dealings with the police and in my opinion the only people afraid of id cards would be those with something to hide
As for the nhs they really need to start running it more like a business they could probably save more than the 20bn in better procurement alone
ditto on the dealings with the police and would also not want an ID card system..
some of the comments from those who are keen to be monitored by the state are ironically reminiscent of how those in the USSR used to 'live' and maybe do so in Korea..
equally ironic is someone saying they have nothing to hide with their face blanked out on here.. I do not think tbat anyone has proposed being monitored by the state . What is being suggested is a system to prevent financial fraud and misuse of the health service by those who are not entitled to use it .
given the NHS and the governments record on major infrastructure in IT over the past 20 years I wont hold my breath that it will ever be up and running were it to be passed..
you don't think that those in power would not also want to access such thing? or it will be 'sponsored' by health insurance companies who will want access to long term health or hereditary health issues..
agree that the current issue's require addressing properly and need reform but an ID card will still not sort out the current problems..
that's admin..
But a chip and pin healthcare card (as I described above ) would fix it in a heartbeat . Problem is; UK with its disastrous record of IT project incompetence would never manage it."
Thing is I agree but I just do not trust this or Labour with the direction they are taking with the private sector in the NHS and other public services..
when you have a situation several years ago where a Fire authority was ready to sign up to have their regional fire control centre (another fuck up IT wise and has cost hundreds of millions)have a private companies call centre staff with limited training take and handle 999 calls..
if the fire control operators, training of several years before handling such calls were taking calls from 3rd party partners (white goods, insurance etc)
so yes a system would make the NHS more linked up and run better if it was just that..
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *anes HubbyCouple
over a year ago
Babbacombe Torquay |
I'm sure no-one on here would argue about an NHS chipped card for treatment, my disapproval is of a National Identity Card, which could and would be abused to target certain sections of society.
I argued against it when Labour attempted to bring it in a few years ago, and I'll never agree it's a good idea. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I'm sure no-one on here would argue about an NHS chipped card for treatment, my disapproval is of a National Identity Card, which could and would be abused to target certain sections of society.
I argued against it when Labour attempted to bring it in a few years ago, and I'll never agree it's a good idea."
same here. But when the EU introduces National Insurance numbers for all its citizens which it hopes to do eventually, what do you think that will involve? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *eavenNhellCouple
over a year ago
carrbrook stalybridge |
"I'm sure no-one on here would argue about an NHS chipped card for treatment, my disapproval is of a National Identity Card, which could and would be abused to target certain sections of society.
I argued against it when Labour attempted to bring it in a few years ago, and I'll never agree it's a good idea."
do you hold a driving licence or passport especaily the new biometrick ones ? try opening a ban account renting aproperty a car or many other things these are ID cards in all but name |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *anes HubbyCouple
over a year ago
Babbacombe Torquay |
"I'm sure no-one on here would argue about an NHS chipped card for treatment, my disapproval is of a National Identity Card, which could and would be abused to target certain sections of society.
I argued against it when Labour attempted to bring it in a few years ago, and I'll never agree it's a good idea.do you hold a driving licence or passport especaily the new biometrick ones ? try opening a ban account renting aproperty a car or many other things these are ID cards in all but name "
No....ID cards need to be carried and produced upon demand from a government official at all times, and I'm not required to carry my passport or driving license at all times....entirely different. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *anes HubbyCouple
over a year ago
Babbacombe Torquay |
"I'm sure no-one on here would argue about an NHS chipped card for treatment, my disapproval is of a National Identity Card, which could and would be abused to target certain sections of society.
I argued against it when Labour attempted to bring it in a few years ago, and I'll never agree it's a good idea.
same here. But when the EU introduces National Insurance numbers for all its citizens which it hopes to do eventually, what do you think that will involve?"
It can hope all it likes but it will be vetoed by more than one member country, there are think tanks everywhere, in the EU and also within our government....the EU would face it being blocked.
Germany already has an ID card that has to be carried at all times or produced with 72 hours to a police station on demand, it is a law that is regularly flouted every day of the week by hundreds of thousands who refuse to comply....and good for them. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *arry247Couple
over a year ago
Wakefield |
Yes the NHS is safe in Tory hands, the Labour party landed the NHS with huge ongoing costs with their private finance ideas where hospitals costing millions have been built and the NHS foots the huge bill for years to come.
The Labour party has also introduced more private services into the NHS than the Tories if you bother to look at the information available |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
The NHS has lacked proper investment for years under all governments; PFI was back door privatisation; Blair was an exponent of the third way for public services; and the NHS is badly managed and understaffed.
Simple solutions - we train and retain sufficient doctors and nurses and stop paying exorbitant agency fees; we strip out bad managers and management; we listen to clinicians; we fund it as a service not a business; we take more steps to promote self responsibility in managing one's own health.
To answer the question...no not safe in Tory hands because they haven't reversed or changed the structures in the right way in six years in government. And there is no reason why it cannot be free at point of delivery to those who qualify...affordability is a political choice not an economic issue. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Firstly in answer to the point made about Blair, I think that you will find that I have never described him or the government he led as socialist, in fact I have always described him as either a 'red tory' or 'torylite'.
Second, I keep hearing that 'the world has changed' and 'we are much richer now than in the bad old days of the 60's and 70's'. Yet having lived through both of those periods I never heard of people needing food banks or hospitals being closed for lack of money, or patients being kept in ambulances outside hospitals because there was no room in A&E in the 60's and 70's.
But what I have heard for many years now is 'efficiency savings' in all branches of government, that is CUTS to finance reducing the tax burden on the super rich and corporate world.
Maybe today's Briton is not quite the utopia that some think and 60's and 70's more socialist Briton was not as bad as we are told by those who fear a return to a system where the government did not pander to the super wealthy corporations and individuals.
Just a thought...
Ah, yes, those great days of Harold Wilson.
Wonderful. A panacea.
Do you recall those great 3-day working weeks? Hunkering down beside a candle in the cold? That wonderful magical family feeling.
The cuts to the NHS in dentistry and other areas.
My, that was so wonderful. Thank you for reminding me of those lovely years."
Yep that's my memory of the 70's as well. My Mum crying in the dark. What a happy time it was. It's probably the main reason I'm so anti-unions. Childhood hunger and emotional scaring have that effect. Still it drove me to learn work hard and earn my way out of the council house estates. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Firstly in answer to the point made about Blair, I think that you will find that I have never described him or the government he led as socialist, in fact I have always described him as either a 'red tory' or 'torylite'.
Second, I keep hearing that 'the world has changed' and 'we are much richer now than in the bad old days of the 60's and 70's'. Yet having lived through both of those periods I never heard of people needing food banks or hospitals being closed for lack of money, or patients being kept in ambulances outside hospitals because there was no room in A&E in the 60's and 70's.
But what I have heard for many years now is 'efficiency savings' in all branches of government, that is CUTS to finance reducing the tax burden on the super rich and corporate world.
Maybe today's Briton is not quite the utopia that some think and 60's and 70's more socialist Briton was not as bad as we are told by those who fear a return to a system where the government did not pander to the super wealthy corporations and individuals.
Just a thought...
Ah, yes, those great days of Harold Wilson.
Wonderful. A panacea.
Do you recall those great 3-day working weeks? Hunkering down beside a candle in the cold? That wonderful magical family feeling.
The cuts to the NHS in dentistry and other areas.
My, that was so wonderful. Thank you for reminding me of those lovely years.
Yep that's my memory of the 70's as well. My Mum crying in the dark. What a happy time it was. It's probably the main reason I'm so anti-unions. Childhood hunger and emotional scaring have that effect. Still it drove me to learn work hard and earn my way out of the council house estates."
Sorry but whoa...if you are 42 then you were born in 1974...the three day week ended after the February 1974 General Election...but you remember the dark?
We didn't have power cuts in the winter of discontent in 78/79 although there were fuel shortages for schools etc.
I was in junior school during the three day week and yes I remember the candles at home. But I didn't blame the unions... |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"HEALTH TOURISM
.
the practice of travelling abroad (to UK) in order to receive medical treatment
.
google it, you may be shocked.
Health tourism is a piss in the ocean for the NHS, even the BMA say its impact upon NHS resources is over exaggerated.
It's a UKIP sound bite...... Sorry people estimate it to cost up to £2 billion pounds and every health tourist misusing the service delays treatment for others .
Regardless of the amount spent , it still needs to be clamped down on rigorously .
Every saving no matter how small helps ."
£2b is tiny against a £116b budget. But you're right. Every saving helps. Better insurance recuperation needed. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Firstly in answer to the point made about Blair, I think that you will find that I have never described him or the government he led as socialist, in fact I have always described him as either a 'red tory' or 'torylite'.
Second, I keep hearing that 'the world has changed' and 'we are much richer now than in the bad old days of the 60's and 70's'. Yet having lived through both of those periods I never heard of people needing food banks or hospitals being closed for lack of money, or patients being kept in ambulances outside hospitals because there was no room in A&E in the 60's and 70's.
But what I have heard for many years now is 'efficiency savings' in all branches of government, that is CUTS to finance reducing the tax burden on the super rich and corporate world.
Maybe today's Briton is not quite the utopia that some think and 60's and 70's more socialist Briton was not as bad as we are told by those who fear a return to a system where the government did not pander to the super wealthy corporations and individuals.
Just a thought...
Ah, yes, those great days of Harold Wilson.
Wonderful. A panacea.
Do you recall those great 3-day working weeks? Hunkering down beside a candle in the cold? That wonderful magical family feeling.
The cuts to the NHS in dentistry and other areas.
My, that was so wonderful. Thank you for reminding me of those lovely years.
Yep that's my memory of the 70's as well. My Mum crying in the dark. What a happy time it was. It's probably the main reason I'm so anti-unions. Childhood hunger and emotional scaring have that effect. Still it drove me to learn work hard and earn my way out of the council house estates."
Excellent post. The NHS is possibly a victim of its own success. With people living a lot longer it is inevitable that a few problems will arise . I prefer to make my judgement on what is actually achieved , not a few horror stories. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"What a load of old tut I'm reading here. It is high time that British hospitals stopped providing treatment to anyone without a national insurance number, unless they pay up front.
They should also require ID to prove that said national insurance number is theirs.
Thanks but I'm not in any hurry to be a citizen of a country where you would be open to being stopped in the street by a policeman demanding to see your ID card.....because that's where ID cards would take us.
don't they have them in other EU countries?
I'm not living in other EU countries though....I'm living here, and I don't want ID cards in my country."
I do. And am more than happy to be stopped by any copper any time. I don't break the law. Well apart from speeding occasionally, for which I accept I will get fined and points when caught. Again. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"What a load of old tut I'm reading here. It is high time that British hospitals stopped providing treatment to anyone without a national insurance number, unless they pay up front.
They should also require ID to prove that said national insurance number is theirs.
Thanks but I'm not in any hurry to be a citizen of a country where you would be open to being stopped in the street by a policeman demanding to see your ID card.....because that's where ID cards would take us.
don't they have them in other EU countries?
I'm not living in other EU countries though....I'm living here, and I don't want ID cards in my country. That is fair enough . It would just mean that you could not use the NHS . You do not walk into Tescos and refuse to pay.
Here we gave a " Carte Vitale" health card.
It has your name, social security number and photo on it ( but it's not an official ID card).
It also has a chip in it.
Whenever you go to hospital, Doctor, or pharmacist , the card goes in a reader; it links to the central computer and confirms your entitlement .
A doctor can also bring up your entire medical records on it.
( which means you can go to any doctor, and get treatment if you are away from home, and the doctor can check your records.)
If you don't have a card, then you pay; and then ( if you think you have an entitlement) claim back costs.
Non French show their EHIC; it is up to the individual health provider whether they make you pay, and give you the claim form to send in to your own country's health system, or treat you free, and pass the costs to the other country through the intergovernmental system.
Works perfectly.
"
I want this! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"We travel to various countries on business where citizens are required to carry an ID card at all times, police just randomly stop people and have them shoved into shop doorways checking them....not something I'd like to see in our country.
Our police would use it discriminately to harass certain groups within our society. "
Yes. The criminal groups. Good! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Firstly in answer to the point made about Blair, I think that you will find that I have never described him or the government he led as socialist, in fact I have always described him as either a 'red tory' or 'torylite'.
Second, I keep hearing that 'the world has changed' and 'we are much richer now than in the bad old days of the 60's and 70's'. Yet having lived through both of those periods I never heard of people needing food banks or hospitals being closed for lack of money, or patients being kept in ambulances outside hospitals because there was no room in A&E in the 60's and 70's.
But what I have heard for many years now is 'efficiency savings' in all branches of government, that is CUTS to finance reducing the tax burden on the super rich and corporate world.
Maybe today's Briton is not quite the utopia that some think and 60's and 70's more socialist Briton was not as bad as we are told by those who fear a return to a system where the government did not pander to the super wealthy corporations and individuals.
Just a thought...
Ah, yes, those great days of Harold Wilson.
Wonderful. A panacea.
Do you recall those great 3-day working weeks? Hunkering down beside a candle in the cold? That wonderful magical family feeling.
The cuts to the NHS in dentistry and other areas.
My, that was so wonderful. Thank you for reminding me of those lovely years.
Yep that's my memory of the 70's as well. My Mum crying in the dark. What a happy time it was. It's probably the main reason I'm so anti-unions. Childhood hunger and emotional scaring have that effect. Still it drove me to learn work hard and earn my way out of the council house estates.
Sorry but whoa...if you are 42 then you were born in 1974...the three day week ended after the February 1974 General Election...but you remember the dark?
We didn't have power cuts in the winter of discontent in 78/79 although there were fuel shortages for schools etc.
I was in junior school during the three day week and yes I remember the candles at home. But I didn't blame the unions... "
maybe someone has been watching the 'when I were a lad, our Dad would cut us in alf wi a rusty bread knife' sketch..
 |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Firstly in answer to the point made about Blair, I think that you will find that I have never described him or the government he led as socialist, in fact I have always described him as either a 'red tory' or 'torylite'.
Second, I keep hearing that 'the world has changed' and 'we are much richer now than in the bad old days of the 60's and 70's'. Yet having lived through both of those periods I never heard of people needing food banks or hospitals being closed for lack of money, or patients being kept in ambulances outside hospitals because there was no room in A&E in the 60's and 70's.
But what I have heard for many years now is 'efficiency savings' in all branches of government, that is CUTS to finance reducing the tax burden on the super rich and corporate world.
Maybe today's Briton is not quite the utopia that some think and 60's and 70's more socialist Briton was not as bad as we are told by those who fear a return to a system where the government did not pander to the super wealthy corporations and individuals.
Just a thought...
Ah, yes, those great days of Harold Wilson.
Wonderful. A panacea.
Do you recall those great 3-day working weeks? Hunkering down beside a candle in the cold? That wonderful magical family feeling.
The cuts to the NHS in dentistry and other areas.
My, that was so wonderful. Thank you for reminding me of those lovely years.
Yep that's my memory of the 70's as well. My Mum crying in the dark. What a happy time it was. It's probably the main reason I'm so anti-unions. Childhood hunger and emotional scaring have that effect. Still it drove me to learn work hard and earn my way out of the council house estates.
Sorry but whoa...if you are 42 then you were born in 1974...the three day week ended after the February 1974 General Election...but you remember the dark?
We didn't have power cuts in the winter of discontent in 78/79 although there were fuel shortages for schools etc.
I was in junior school during the three day week and yes I remember the candles at home. But I didn't blame the unions... "
I was born in 73. And yes I remember. The white plastic portable black and white TV. Giving her my small orange toy caravan to cheer her up. My Dad trying to comfort her. I have several other clear memories of that house, street and garden. We moved out before I started Play School (now called Nursery or Kindergarten). |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *anes HubbyCouple
over a year ago
Babbacombe Torquay |
"We travel to various countries on business where citizens are required to carry an ID card at all times, police just randomly stop people and have them shoved into shop doorways checking them....not something I'd like to see in our country.
Our police would use it discriminately to harass certain groups within our society.
Yes. The criminal groups. Good!"
No mainly the non white groups |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
» Add a new message to this topic
