FabSwingers.com > Forums > Politics > When did the economy become more important
When did the economy become more important
Jump to: Newest in thread
| |||
"Than people?" Property has always been more important than people in this country. The economy is a measure of how much property is worth.  | |||
| |||
| |||
"When we voted to leave the EU" Really? So you think getting rid of the EU and their pesky employment regulations and withdrawing from the ECHR is good for the people? | |||
"When we voted to leave the EU Really? So you think getting rid of the EU and their pesky employment regulations and withdrawing from the ECHR is good for the people? " it matters not what I think. The people chose to leave yet a lot of remainers are trying to ignore/dismiss their wishes by saying that the economy is more important than that | |||
| |||
| |||
| |||
 | |||
"See I always assumed capitalism and commerce was to benefit the people not the other way round... What muppetry" Capitalism exists to serve the market, which in turn benefits a tiny few. How is this news? | |||
"Than people?" for the last couple of thousand years? | |||
"It is funny really, so many people voted to leave the EU because they were told it would reduce immigration (that got the racist vote), would return power to the UK that the EU had taken (that got the vote of those who have been disposed by 35 years of right wing tory policies) and of course those who believed all the sit that Murdock and co have pumped out from their propaganda sheets over the 35 years on behalf of themselves and their corrupt corporate mates. Soon we will all be paying the price of leaving the EU. As we roll back all the social return the the workhouse society of the 18th and 19th centuries." 35 years of right wing Tory policies? We had a Labour government for 13 years from 1997 onwards. | |||
"It is funny really, so many people voted to leave the EU because they were told it would reduce immigration (that got the racist vote), would return power to the UK that the EU had taken (that got the vote of those who have been disposed by 35 years of right wing tory policies) and of course those who believed all the sit that Murdock and co have pumped out from their propaganda sheets over the 35 years on behalf of themselves and their corrupt corporate mates. Soon we will all be paying the price of leaving the EU. As we roll back all the social return the the workhouse society of the 18th and 19th centuries. 35 years of right wing Tory policies? We had a Labour government for 13 years from 1997 onwards. " I agree, but don't forget they comrade Corbyn's fans think that Blair was right wing. It is pointless debating them, they have made Labour unelectable. So if we are stuck with the Tories for the next 20 years, it is all their fault... | |||
| |||
| |||
| |||
"It matters little, no party with any sense wants to be in power for the next decade, the government that rules for this period will be the one that gets all the blame for Brexit from either the leave or the remain side..... Far better to avoid this period of uncertainty and anger from both sides of the argument, and then come in after that and appear as a knight in shining armour on a galloping white steed." far better to do nothing? Why does that attitude not surprise me? Now is the time for someone with balls to go down in history. And yes, history will remember them well when we are taken out of the EU. Better to avoid this period, ffs  | |||
"It matters little, no party with any sense wants to be in power for the next decade, the government that rules for this period will be the one that gets all the blame for Brexit from either the leave or the remain side..... Far better to avoid this period of uncertainty and anger from both sides of the argument, and then come in after that and appear as a knight in shining armour on a galloping white steed. far better to do nothing? Why does that attitude not surprise me? Now is the time for someone with balls to go down in history. And yes, history will remember them well when we are taken out of the EU. Better to avoid this period, ffs "Until of course Theresa May agrees to something in the negotiations that many Leavers, including YOU, don't agree with. Then all of a sudden they won't have balls, they will be selling your ideology out, that's the problem with the Leave voters, ask any 100 what they wanted out of a vote to leave and you will get 30 or 40 different answers. There was no firm plan that everyone would agree to, it was a personal game plan for every Leave voter. For some it was immigration and not just a reduction but a total halt to immigration, some others just wanted an end to EU immigration, some even believed it would mean less Muslims coming into the UK! THen some believe that EU migrants already here should be allowed to stay, others think they should all go home. So Theresa May will come out of this hated by so many Leavers who will believe she sold them out. The government of the day can't and won't win the support of the whole country, they won't even win the support of the majority of voters who wanted to leave. In short it's a lose/lose situation for Theresa May. | |||
"One can't survive without the other...." . As an experiment.... Try counting your money while holding your breath for about ten minutes... Then get back to me with the results  | |||
| |||
"One can't survive without the other..... As an experiment.... Try counting your money while holding your breath for about ten minutes... Then get back to me with the results "Money means as much to you as anyone on here, anyone that says money doesn't matter is either a very wealthy person or an idiot. | |||
"One can't survive without the other..... As an experiment.... Try counting your money while holding your breath for about ten minutes... Then get back to me with the results
Money means as much to you as anyone on here, anyone that says money doesn't matter is either a very wealthy person or an idiot.". I'm still alive your dead... Who's the idiot again | |||
"One can't survive without the other..... As an experiment.... Try counting your money while holding your breath for about ten minutes... Then get back to me with the results
Money means as much to you as anyone on here, anyone that says money doesn't matter is either a very wealthy person or an idiot..
I'm still alive your dead... Who's the idiot again "Must resist grammar error. Must resist...  .
I'm fine now. Back to the debate. | |||
"It matters little, no party with any sense wants to be in power for the next decade, the government that rules for this period will be the one that gets all the blame for Brexit from either the leave or the remain side..... Far better to avoid this period of uncertainty and anger from both sides of the argument, and then come in after that and appear as a knight in shining armour on a galloping white steed. far better to do nothing? Why does that attitude not surprise me? Now is the time for someone with balls to go down in history. And yes, history will remember them well when we are taken out of the EU. Better to avoid this period, ffs
Until of course Theresa May agrees to something in the negotiations that many Leavers, including YOU, don't agree with.
Then all of a sudden they won't have balls, they will be selling your ideology out, that's the problem with the Leave voters, ask any 100 what they wanted out of a vote to leave and you will get 30 or 40 different answers. There was no firm plan that everyone would agree to, it was a personal game plan for every Leave voter.
For some it was immigration and not just a reduction but a total halt to immigration, some others just wanted an end to EU immigration, some even believed it would mean less Muslims coming into the UK! THen some believe that EU migrants already here should be allowed to stay, others think they should all go home.
So Theresa May will come out of this hated by so many Leavers who will believe she sold them out.
The government of the day can't and won't win the support of the whole country, they won't even win the support of the majority of voters who wanted to leave.
In short it's a lose/lose situation for Theresa May."I have told you before I don't have an ideology and I'm sure most who voted out don't, we just did what we thought was best for the country and in time will be proved correct. No government is going to please all of the people all of the time but as long as we are taken out of the EU and the single market then the government will have the majorities support. They'll probably even get a lot of support from some who voted to remain when they realise that hey, we can still go on our holidays after all | |||
 | |||
"35 years of right wing Tory policies? We had a Labour government for 13 years from 1997 onwards. I agree, but don't forget they comrade Corbyn's fans think that Blair was right wing. It is pointless debating them, they have made Labour unelectable. So if we are stuck with the Tories for the next 20 years, it is all their fault..." Not labour, new labour which was nothing but tory policy packaged in a different way. As for the comrade Corbyn comment you would do well to read and listen to his policies, rather than how the right wing report his policies. Because on most things when people are told his policies without knowing they are Corbyn policies they agree with them. For the record most (me included) do not agree with his anti nuclear policies, but considering he has been a life long member of CND why would anyone be surprised that he voted against the Trident replacement? | |||
"It matters little, no party with any sense wants to be in power for the next decade, the government that rules for this period will be the one that gets all the blame for Brexit from either the leave or the remain side..... Far better to avoid this period of uncertainty and anger from both sides of the argument, and then come in after that and appear as a knight in shining armour on a galloping white steed. far better to do nothing? Why does that attitude not surprise me? Now is the time for someone with balls to go down in history. And yes, history will remember them well when we are taken out of the EU. Better to avoid this period, ffs
Until of course Theresa May agrees to something in the negotiations that many Leavers, including YOU, don't agree with.
Then all of a sudden they won't have balls, they will be selling your ideology out, that's the problem with the Leave voters, ask any 100 what they wanted out of a vote to leave and you will get 30 or 40 different answers. There was no firm plan that everyone would agree to, it was a personal game plan for every Leave voter.
For some it was immigration and not just a reduction but a total halt to immigration, some others just wanted an end to EU immigration, some even believed it would mean less Muslims coming into the UK! THen some believe that EU migrants already here should be allowed to stay, others think they should all go home.
So Theresa May will come out of this hated by so many Leavers who will believe she sold them out.
The government of the day can't and won't win the support of the whole country, they won't even win the support of the majority of voters who wanted to leave.
In short it's a lose/lose situation for Theresa May.
I have told you before I don't have an ideology and I'm sure most who voted out don't, we just did what we thought was best for the country and in time will be proved correct. No government is going to please all of the people all of the time but as long as we are taken out of the EU and the single market then the government will have the majorities support. They'll probably even get a lot of support from some who voted to remain when they realise that hey, we can still go on our holidays after all "The majority did not vote to leave the single market. Various models were discussed, including the Norway model, the Swiss model etc. I don't recall hardly anyone promoting the lunacy of walking away from the single market. | |||
| |||
"That's very true, there was no reference to the single market on the ballot paper, there were so many variations of a post EU put forward by so many individuals from both remain and leave and the electorate just voted in or out....with no thought on either side of the argument as to what that ultimately meant." The difference is we KNOW what its like to be in the EU and now 17.5 million want to KNOW what it is like outside the EU. Not one person on here or anywhere else can say what it is going to be like for the UK when we finally leave the EU no one knows. So until we leave its ALL speculation.  | |||
" The difference is we KNOW what its like to be in the EU and now 17.5 million want to KNOW what it is like outside the EU. Not one person on here or anywhere else can say what it is going to be like for the UK when we finally leave the EU no one knows. So until we leave its ALL speculation. "An unknown proportion of 17.5 million wanted to know what it's like outside the single market. Meanwhile the rest of the country weren't that bothered. | |||
| |||
" The difference is we KNOW what its like to be in the EU and now 17.5 million want to KNOW what it is like outside the EU. Not one person on here or anywhere else can say what it is going to be like for the UK when we finally leave the EU no one knows. So until we leave its ALL speculation.
An unknown proportion of 17.5 million wanted to know what it's like outside the single market. Meanwhile the rest of the country weren't that bothered. "I did,nt say that the point is the country as a whole KNOWS what it is like in the EU, a larger number of people voted to leave than voted to stay the ones that did,nt vote who can say why they did,nt vote. | |||
"It matters little, no party with any sense wants to be in power for the next decade, the government that rules for this period will be the one that gets all the blame for Brexit from either the leave or the remain side..... Far better to avoid this period of uncertainty and anger from both sides of the argument, and then come in after that and appear as a knight in shining armour on a galloping white steed. far better to do nothing? Why does that attitude not surprise me? Now is the time for someone with balls to go down in history. And yes, history will remember them well when we are taken out of the EU. Better to avoid this period, ffs
Until of course Theresa May agrees to something in the negotiations that many Leavers, including YOU, don't agree with.
Then all of a sudden they won't have balls, they will be selling your ideology out, that's the problem with the Leave voters, ask any 100 what they wanted out of a vote to leave and you will get 30 or 40 different answers. There was no firm plan that everyone would agree to, it was a personal game plan for every Leave voter.
For some it was immigration and not just a reduction but a total halt to immigration, some others just wanted an end to EU immigration, some even believed it would mean less Muslims coming into the UK! THen some believe that EU migrants already here should be allowed to stay, others think they should all go home.
So Theresa May will come out of this hated by so many Leavers who will believe she sold them out.
The government of the day can't and won't win the support of the whole country, they won't even win the support of the majority of voters who wanted to leave.
In short it's a lose/lose situation for Theresa May.
I have told you before I don't have an ideology and I'm sure most who voted out don't, we just did what we thought was best for the country and in time will be proved correct. No government is going to please all of the people all of the time but as long as we are taken out of the EU and the single market then the government will have the majorities support. They'll probably even get a lot of support from some who voted to remain when they realise that hey, we can still go on our holidays after all
The majority did not vote to leave the single market. Various models were discussed, including the Norway model, the Swiss model etc. I don't recall hardly anyone promoting the lunacy of walking away from the single market."everyone who voted to leave the EU voted to leave the single market. Leaving the single market is not lunacy at all it is common sense and economically advantageous. David Cameron said on live TV that voting to leave the EU was a vote to leave the single market. Why do you think people didn't want to do that or didn't understand what he said? | |||
| |||
"To be able to look after its people the best you can surely needs a good economy, without that you can't do half as much. So in a way a good economy base is required to benefit the whole."  How can a nation care for the less fortunate people unless it has the money to do so? | |||
"One can't survive without the other..... As an experiment.... Try counting your money while holding your breath for about ten minutes... Then get back to me with the results
Money means as much to you as anyone on here, anyone that says money doesn't matter is either a very wealthy person or an idiot."Don't those things tend to go hand in hand? | |||
"One can't survive without the other..... As an experiment.... Try counting your money while holding your breath for about ten minutes... Then get back to me with the results
Money means as much to you as anyone on here, anyone that says money doesn't matter is either a very wealthy person or an idiot.
Don't those things tend to go hand in hand?"How does being successful & becoming wealthy make them idiots ? Sounds like sour grapes tbh | |||
"To be able to look after its people the best you can surely needs a good economy, without that you can't do half as much. So in a way a good economy base is required to benefit the whole. How can a nation care for the less fortunate people unless it has the money to do so?"It can't, and that's what people are worried about. A fall in tax revenue will lead to further austerity. | |||
"To be able to look after its people the best you can surely needs a good economy, without that you can't do half as much. So in a way a good economy base is required to benefit the whole." . A good economy base?? . Right so a good economy base benefits the people.. . However Heathrow is going to kill 5000 people a year! Everybody on here is willing to sacrifice those 5000 people for that good stuff of wealthier for the rest. It's a trade off we make daily, most of the clothes everybody wears killed tens of thousands making, we keep chucking that c02 out and it's a definite(according to experts)(proper experts) that were going to kill everybody..... Still making that trade off for a weekend in Barcelona!!  | |||
| |||
| |||
"I chose a good day to fly to Malaga for the day just cos I fancied some proper Tapas then? I guess there are some people who would say that my like of tapas is killing other people ... I still like Tapas." . You've just not realised your no different to everybody else you slag off on a daily basis stating experts everybody should listen to but completely ignoring experts you don't like the conclusions of!. Enjoy your tapas  | |||
"One can't survive without the other..... As an experiment.... Try counting your money while holding your breath for about ten minutes... Then get back to me with the results
Money means as much to you as anyone on here, anyone that says money doesn't matter is either a very wealthy person or an idiot.
Don't those things tend to go hand in hand?"You really think so? | |||
"I chose a good day to fly to Malaga for the day just cos I fancied some proper Tapas then? I guess there are some people who would say that my like of tapas is killing other people ... I still like Tapas.. You've just not realised your no different to everybody else you slag off on a daily basis stating experts everybody should listen to but completely ignoring experts you don't like the conclusions of!. Enjoy your tapas "I thought the experts had said Heathrow was the best option? | |||
"I chose a good day to fly to Malaga for the day just cos I fancied some proper Tapas then? I guess there are some people who would say that my like of tapas is killing other people ... I still like Tapas.. You've just not realised your no different to everybody else you slag off on a daily basis stating experts everybody should listen to but completely ignoring experts you don't like the conclusions of!. Enjoy your tapas
I thought the experts had said Heathrow was the best option? ". Well you can go and read through anything written by the tens of thousands of climate scientists who going off the data recommended putting less c02 into the air!... . I think you mean the experts who are being paid by Heathrow to say Heathrow is the best solution?. . Kevin Anderson runs the Tyndall centre in Manchester, he's probably one of the world's leading experts on climate change I'd post a link but I think it's not allowed, however if you google it, he will come | |||
| |||
| |||
"I chose a good day to fly to Malaga for the day just cos I fancied some proper Tapas then? I guess there are some people who would say that my like of tapas is killing other people ... I still like Tapas.. You've just not realised your no different to everybody else you slag off on a daily basis stating experts everybody should listen to but completely ignoring experts you don't like the conclusions of!. Enjoy your tapas
I thought the experts had said Heathrow was the best option? .
Well you can go and read through anything written by the tens of thousands of climate scientists who going off the data recommended putting less c02 into the air!...
.
I think you mean the experts who are being paid by Heathrow to say Heathrow is the best solution?.
.
Kevin Anderson runs the Tyndall centre in Manchester, he's probably one of the world's leading experts on climate change I'd post a link but I think it's not allowed, however if you google it, he will come"Climate change! What's all that about then? Thought it had been exposed as a hoax by Donald The Trumpster? | |||
"I chose a good day to fly to Malaga for the day just cos I fancied some proper Tapas then? I guess there are some people who would say that my like of tapas is killing other people ... I still like Tapas.. You've just not realised your no different to everybody else you slag off on a daily basis stating experts everybody should listen to but completely ignoring experts you don't like the conclusions of!. Enjoy your tapas
I thought the experts had said Heathrow was the best option? .
Well you can go and read through anything written by the tens of thousands of climate scientists who going off the data recommended putting less c02 into the air!...
.
I think you mean the experts who are being paid by Heathrow to say Heathrow is the best solution?.
.
Kevin Anderson runs the Tyndall centre in Manchester, he's probably one of the world's leading experts on climate change I'd post a link but I think it's not allowed, however if you google it, he will come
Climate change! What's all that about then? Thought it had been exposed as a hoax by Donald The Trumpster?". You can't expose science it just is what it is!. Its fair to say the only thing old Donny is exposing is his cock | |||
"I chose a good day to fly to Malaga for the day just cos I fancied some proper Tapas then? I guess there are some people who would say that my like of tapas is killing other people ... I still like Tapas.. You've just not realised your no different to everybody else you slag off on a daily basis stating experts everybody should listen to but completely ignoring experts you don't like the conclusions of!. Enjoy your tapas
I thought the experts had said Heathrow was the best option? .
Well you can go and read through anything written by the tens of thousands of climate scientists who going off the data recommended putting less c02 into the air!...
.
I think you mean the experts who are being paid by Heathrow to say Heathrow is the best solution?.
.
Kevin Anderson runs the Tyndall centre in Manchester, he's probably one of the world's leading experts on climate change I'd post a link but I think it's not allowed, however if you google it, he will come"Is there a difference in the amount of CO2 based on which airport they put the new runway at? | |||
"Than people?" It allways has been and allways will be because of greed within society | |||
"I chose a good day to fly to Malaga for the day just cos I fancied some proper Tapas then? I guess there are some people who would say that my like of tapas is killing other people ... I still like Tapas.. You've just not realised your no different to everybody else you slag off on a daily basis stating experts everybody should listen to but completely ignoring experts you don't like the conclusions of!. Enjoy your tapas
I thought the experts had said Heathrow was the best option? .
Well you can go and read through anything written by the tens of thousands of climate scientists who going off the data recommended putting less c02 into the air!...
.
I think you mean the experts who are being paid by Heathrow to say Heathrow is the best solution?.
.
Kevin Anderson runs the Tyndall centre in Manchester, he's probably one of the world's leading experts on climate change I'd post a link but I think it's not allowed, however if you google it, he will come
Is there a difference in the amount of CO2 based on which airport they put the new runway at? ". I think the idea is no airport expansion!. Instead moving to trains, trams, electric cars, bikes it's a huge transfer of infrastructure away from fossil fuel to clean fuel and seen as we've got a 500 gigaton limit on limiting c02 too, that really needs to be used for that infrastructure change and not weekends in Barcelona...... Or we blow the whole lot on a crazy summer in Ibiza then sit back with the memories while the earth goes toast??? I'm open to that idea myself  | |||
"I chose a good day to fly to Malaga for the day just cos I fancied some proper Tapas then? I guess there are some people who would say that my like of tapas is killing other people ... I still like Tapas.. You've just not realised your no different to everybody else you slag off on a daily basis stating experts everybody should listen to but completely ignoring experts you don't like the conclusions of!. Enjoy your tapas
I thought the experts had said Heathrow was the best option? .
Well you can go and read through anything written by the tens of thousands of climate scientists who going off the data recommended putting less c02 into the air!...
.
I think you mean the experts who are being paid by Heathrow to say Heathrow is the best solution?.
.
Kevin Anderson runs the Tyndall centre in Manchester, he's probably one of the world's leading experts on climate change I'd post a link but I think it's not allowed, however if you google it, he will come
Is there a difference in the amount of CO2 based on which airport they put the new runway at? .
I think the idea is no airport expansion!.
Instead moving to trains, trams, electric cars, bikes it's a huge transfer of infrastructure away from fossil fuel to clean fuel and seen as we've got a 500 gigaton limit on limiting c02 too, that really needs to be used for that infrastructure change and not weekends in Barcelona...... Or we blow the whole lot on a crazy summer in Ibiza then sit back with the memories while the earth goes toast??? I'm open to that idea myself "Or electric planes? It would take ages to cycle to New Zealand or New York. | |||
"I chose a good day to fly to Malaga for the day just cos I fancied some proper Tapas then? I guess there are some people who would say that my like of tapas is killing other people ... I still like Tapas.. You've just not realised your no different to everybody else you slag off on a daily basis stating experts everybody should listen to but completely ignoring experts you don't like the conclusions of!. Enjoy your tapas
I thought the experts had said Heathrow was the best option? .
Well you can go and read through anything written by the tens of thousands of climate scientists who going off the data recommended putting less c02 into the air!...
.
I think you mean the experts who are being paid by Heathrow to say Heathrow is the best solution?.
.
Kevin Anderson runs the Tyndall centre in Manchester, he's probably one of the world's leading experts on climate change I'd post a link but I think it's not allowed, however if you google it, he will come
Is there a difference in the amount of CO2 based on which airport they put the new runway at? .
I think the idea is no airport expansion!.
Instead moving to trains, trams, electric cars, bikes it's a huge transfer of infrastructure away from fossil fuel to clean fuel and seen as we've got a 500 gigaton limit on limiting c02 too, that really needs to be used for that infrastructure change and not weekends in Barcelona...... Or we blow the whole lot on a crazy summer in Ibiza then sit back with the memories while the earth goes toast??? I'm open to that idea myself
Or electric planes? It would take ages to cycle to New Zealand or New York.". Well until we get solar powered planes and we're not there but we've started I'm afraid it might mean no flying, I know the inhumanity of it.... Or you can fly against all the experts advise and data and just kill everybody?. Choice is yours.... Me I don't mind killing people, I'm all for it, most of them are fucking nuts who can't understand basic science... But I'm thinking about the children, so I don't | |||
| |||
" I think the idea is no airport expansion!. Instead moving to trains, trams, electric cars, bikes it's a huge transfer of infrastructure away from fossil fuel to clean fuel and seen as we've got a 500 gigaton limit on limiting c02 too, that really needs to be used for that infrastructure change and not weekends in Barcelona...... Or we blow the whole lot on a crazy summer in Ibiza then sit back with the memories while the earth goes toast??? I'm open to that idea myself "Ah, yes, trains, trams and electric cars. That would help. Not. You realise that they are all primarily carbon based, both in manufacture and fuel? Greens seem the first to shout "electric cars." Where does most of the electricity come from? How are they manufactured? | |||
"Well until we get solar powered planes and we're not there but we've started I'm afraid it might mean no flying, I know the inhumanity of it.... Or you can fly against all the experts advise and data and just kill everybody?. Choice is yours.... Me I don't mind killing people, I'm all for it, most of them are fucking nuts who can't understand basic science... But I'm thinking about the children, so I don't "Really? So just to be clear, until we develop efficient solar power we must keep burning hydrocarbons. Could that be because the petrochemical industry has bought up all the patents and copywrites to water power? Water power I hear you say as you start laughing at the space cadet... Ever heard of hydrogen power? No greenhouse gasses no harmful emissions no reliance on the petrochemical industry. I wonder why it hasn't taken off and why the petrochemical industry keeps suppressing the technology? Guesses on the back of an envelope to How Global Corporate Greed Will Kill Us ALL iN tHE nAME oF pROFIT... | |||
" I think the idea is no airport expansion!. Instead moving to trains, trams, electric cars, bikes it's a huge transfer of infrastructure away from fossil fuel to clean fuel and seen as we've got a 500 gigaton limit on limiting c02 too, that really needs to be used for that infrastructure change and not weekends in Barcelona...... Or we blow the whole lot on a crazy summer in Ibiza then sit back with the memories while the earth goes toast??? I'm open to that idea myself
Ah, yes, trains, trams and electric cars. That would help. Not. You realise that they are all primarily carbon based, both in manufacture and fuel?
Greens seem the first to shout "electric cars." Where does most of the electricity come from? How are they manufactured?". Well sir, it's a very tough nut to crack, in fact carbon leaching from soil is the biggest problem you face after fossil fuels and animal production for food... Anyhow yes c02 it's everywhere that's the problem, so you what you do is start at the top and work your way down, now fossil fuels are producing 63% of our c02 emissions and then animal husbandry(c02 and methane) your NEVER going to get 0 emissions, however seen as we know where the big emissions are that's where you shout(as you like to put it) after that you can shout about vegetarianism ,reducing consumerism, traveling less, eating less.... We've got to cut c02 emissions by nearly 80% by 2035(18 years) if we're to keep to the Paris accord which states the world should not consider going over 2 degrees above base line but preferably 1.5 degrees(they added that bit after wrangling with south Africa and the Maldives as there'd be pretty much fucking gone at 2 degrees).... So there's the problem....as the Chinese say a journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step | |||
"Well until we get solar powered planes and we're not there but we've started I'm afraid it might mean no flying, I know the inhumanity of it.... Or you can fly against all the experts advise and data and just kill everybody?. Choice is yours.... Me I don't mind killing people, I'm all for it, most of them are fucking nuts who can't understand basic science... But I'm thinking about the children, so I don't
Really?
So just to be clear, until we develop efficient solar power we must keep burning hydrocarbons. Could that be because the petrochemical industry has bought up all the patents and copywrites to water power? Water power I hear you say as you start laughing at the space cadet...
Ever heard of hydrogen power? No greenhouse gasses no harmful emissions no reliance on the petrochemical industry. I wonder why it hasn't taken off and why the petrochemical industry keeps suppressing the technology?
Guesses on the back of an envelope to How Global Corporate Greed Will Kill Us ALL iN tHE nAME oF pROFIT...". I think you caught my sarcasm!. I'm the one who thinks climate change is real and the biggest danger we face in the coming decades.... Yes I've read about hydrogen,i just don't see where your going to get the hydrogen from in any substantial amount? | |||
"Electric powered propellor planes will come first. Linear power delivery through a propellor is something to get excited about." . Clever people are working on it as we speak!.... One flew round the world non stop the other week! | |||
" I think the idea is no airport expansion!. Instead moving to trains, trams, electric cars, bikes it's a huge transfer of infrastructure away from fossil fuel to clean fuel and seen as we've got a 500 gigaton limit on limiting c02 too, that really needs to be used for that infrastructure change and not weekends in Barcelona...... Or we blow the whole lot on a crazy summer in Ibiza then sit back with the memories while the earth goes toast??? I'm open to that idea myself
Ah, yes, trains, trams and electric cars. That would help. Not. You realise that they are all primarily carbon based, both in manufacture and fuel?
Greens seem the first to shout "electric cars." Where does most of the electricity come from? How are they manufactured?.
Well sir, it's a very tough nut to crack, in fact carbon leaching from soil is the biggest problem you face after fossil fuels and animal production for food...
Anyhow yes c02 it's everywhere that's the problem, so you what you do is start at the top and work your way down, now fossil fuels are producing 63% of our c02 emissions and then animal husbandry(c02 and methane) your NEVER going to get 0 emissions, however seen as we know where the big emissions are that's where you shout(as you like to put it) after that you can shout about vegetarianism ,reducing consumerism, traveling less, eating less.... We've got to cut c02 emissions by nearly 80% by 2035(18 years) if we're to keep to the Paris accord which states the world should not consider going over 2 degrees above base line but preferably 1.5 degrees(they added that bit after wrangling with south Africa and the Maldives as there'd be pretty much fucking gone at 2 degrees).... So there's the problem....as the Chinese say a journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step"Indeed. And it doesn't start with electric cars. Or trams. Or trains. | |||
"To be able to look after its people the best you can surely needs a good economy, without that you can't do half as much. So in a way a good economy base is required to benefit the whole.. A good economy base?? . Right so a good economy base benefits the people.. . However Heathrow is going to kill 5000 people a year! Everybody on here is willing to sacrifice those 5000 people for that good stuff of wealthier for the rest. It's a trade off we make daily, most of the clothes everybody wears killed tens of thousands making, we keep chucking that c02 out and it's a definite(according to experts)(proper experts) that were going to kill everybody..... Still making that trade off for a weekend in Barcelona!! "economies have to grow year on year..so we burn more fuel and build more houses and grow more food until the end. So what! every generation will be born into the way it is at the time . All the "green" ideas have all either been forgotten or are a farce.where is the non bleached toilet paper? it was going a long way to save the planet.trouble is we all like to wipe our arse with soft colored shit roll Even this small example is why we will never "save our planet" so why care? live your life you'll all soon be dead. | |||
" I think the idea is no airport expansion!. Instead moving to trains, trams, electric cars, bikes it's a huge transfer of infrastructure away from fossil fuel to clean fuel and seen as we've got a 500 gigaton limit on limiting c02 too, that really needs to be used for that infrastructure change and not weekends in Barcelona...... Or we blow the whole lot on a crazy summer in Ibiza then sit back with the memories while the earth goes toast??? I'm open to that idea myself
Ah, yes, trains, trams and electric cars. That would help. Not. You realise that they are all primarily carbon based, both in manufacture and fuel?
Greens seem the first to shout "electric cars." Where does most of the electricity come from? How are they manufactured?.
Well sir, it's a very tough nut to crack, in fact carbon leaching from soil is the biggest problem you face after fossil fuels and animal production for food...
Anyhow yes c02 it's everywhere that's the problem, so you what you do is start at the top and work your way down, now fossil fuels are producing 63% of our c02 emissions and then animal husbandry(c02 and methane) your NEVER going to get 0 emissions, however seen as we know where the big emissions are that's where you shout(as you like to put it) after that you can shout about vegetarianism ,reducing consumerism, traveling less, eating less.... We've got to cut c02 emissions by nearly 80% by 2035(18 years) if we're to keep to the Paris accord which states the world should not consider going over 2 degrees above base line but preferably 1.5 degrees(they added that bit after wrangling with south Africa and the Maldives as there'd be pretty much fucking gone at 2 degrees).... So there's the problem....as the Chinese say a journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step
Indeed.
And it doesn't start with electric cars. Or trams. Or trains."Well you can run trams trains cars and bikes today from electricity and you make electricity from sources other than fossil fuels.... And that's where we are im afraid so well, yes it does start there.... Unless you've got a better idea? | |||
"I think you caught my sarcasm!. I'm the one who thinks climate change is real and the biggest danger we face in the coming decades.... Yes I've read about hydrogen,i just don't see where your going to get the hydrogen from in any substantial amount?" Thank you, at times by brand of sarcasm is missed. *takes a bow*
Your point about where to get hydrogen from is easy to answer...
We get it from water (it is a simple process we pass electricity through sea water and get sea salt as a byproduct) using wind and wave power. We store the hydrogen and vent the O2 to air, and substitute the H2 to power conventional hydrocarbon generators to start with. We continue increase renewable generation to a point that we have surplus H2 fuel to our base generation needs, convert road vehicles to run on H2 and quickly move to a position where we no longer need hydrocarbons.
Of course there is one problem with this...
In order to placate and support the powerful petrochemical industry our government would rather burn hydrocarbons than fully utilise our existing renewable energy generation capability (next time you are out look at all the wind turbines that are not working when one or two of a farm are) and ask yourself why all are not working.
| |||
" I think the idea is no airport expansion!. Instead moving to trains, trams, electric cars, bikes it's a huge transfer of infrastructure away from fossil fuel to clean fuel and seen as we've got a 500 gigaton limit on limiting c02 too, that really needs to be used for that infrastructure change and not weekends in Barcelona...... Or we blow the whole lot on a crazy summer in Ibiza then sit back with the memories while the earth goes toast??? I'm open to that idea myself
Ah, yes, trains, trams and electric cars. That would help. Not. You realise that they are all primarily carbon based, both in manufacture and fuel?
Greens seem the first to shout "electric cars." Where does most of the electricity come from? How are they manufactured?.
Well sir, it's a very tough nut to crack, in fact carbon leaching from soil is the biggest problem you face after fossil fuels and animal production for food...
Anyhow yes c02 it's everywhere that's the problem, so you what you do is start at the top and work your way down, now fossil fuels are producing 63% of our c02 emissions and then animal husbandry(c02 and methane) your NEVER going to get 0 emissions, however seen as we know where the big emissions are that's where you shout(as you like to put it) after that you can shout about vegetarianism ,reducing consumerism, traveling less, eating less.... We've got to cut c02 emissions by nearly 80% by 2035(18 years) if we're to keep to the Paris accord which states the world should not consider going over 2 degrees above base line but preferably 1.5 degrees(they added that bit after wrangling with south Africa and the Maldives as there'd be pretty much fucking gone at 2 degrees).... So there's the problem....as the Chinese say a journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step
Indeed.
And it doesn't start with electric cars. Or trams. Or trains.
Well you can run trams trains cars and bikes today from electricity and you make electricity from sources other than fossil fuels.... And that's where we are im afraid so well, yes it does start there.... Unless you've got a better idea?"Then it starts with creating and storing electricity from non-carbon fuels, not electric cars and trains. I am afraid that at the moment we are pretty shit at that. | |||
"? Then it starts with creating and storing electricity from non-carbon fuels, not electric cars and trains. I am afraid that at the moment we are pretty shit at that." . No not really, were really fucking great at ingenuity, the main problem is people still don't think it's a problem, some blame lies there with science academics being conservative by nature.... With some serious push it's quite possible to bring down those emissions by 2035 the problem lies if we don't make a start soon, like 10 years ago, the data shows it highly likely it will be irreversible, self feed back loops have already began, we've observed about 24 already, the Arctic clathrates have already started(nasa has a paper on them) and we've known about that problem for about ten years... So if we dilly dally much longer we may well be proper fucked | |||
"?I am afraid that at the moment we are pretty shit at that.. No not really, were really fucking great at ingenuity, the main problem is people still don't think it's a problem, some blame lies there with science academics being conservative by nature.... With some serious push it's quite possible to bring down those emissions by 2035 the problem lies if we don't make a start soon, like 10 years ago, the data shows it highly likely it will be irreversible, self feed back loops have already began, we've observed about 24 already, the Arctic clathrates have already started(nasa has a paper on them) and we've known about that problem for about ten years... So if we dilly dally much longer we may well be proper fucked" I think it is a case of there is too much power (money) tied up in petrochemicals, and we all know profit comes before everything. Even it costs our extinction through making our home uninhabitable. | |||
"? Then it starts with creating and storing electricity from non-carbon fuels, not electric cars and trains. I am afraid that at the moment we are pretty shit at that.. No not really, were really fucking great at ingenuity, the main problem is people still don't think it's a problem, some blame lies there with science academics being conservative by nature.... With some serious push it's quite possible to bring down those emissions by 2035 the problem lies if we don't make a start soon, like 10 years ago, the data shows it highly likely it will be irreversible, self feed back loops have already began, we've observed about 24 already, the Arctic clathrates have already started(nasa has a paper on them) and we've known about that problem for about ten years... So if we dilly dally much longer we may well be proper fucked" Then we are still shit at it. | |||
"? Then it starts with creating and storing electricity from non-carbon fuels, not electric cars and trains. I am afraid that at the moment we are pretty shit at that.. No not really, were really fucking great at ingenuity, the main problem is people still don't think it's a problem, some blame lies there with science academics being conservative by nature.... With some serious push it's quite possible to bring down those emissions by 2035 the problem lies if we don't make a start soon, like 10 years ago, the data shows it highly likely it will be irreversible, self feed back loops have already began, we've observed about 24 already, the Arctic clathrates have already started(nasa has a paper on them) and we've known about that problem for about ten years... So if we dilly dally much longer we may well be proper fucked" nobody really cares !and all the tree hugging and research will not stop china and india who by the way are a little bit bigger than us, growing and growing. by that i mean polluting at a far greater rate than ever dreamed of before .enjoy life people hug a tree if it turns you on xx | |||
"?I am afraid that at the moment we are pretty shit at that.. No not really, were really fucking great at ingenuity, the main problem is people still don't think it's a problem, some blame lies there with science academics being conservative by nature.... With some serious push it's quite possible to bring down those emissions by 2035 the problem lies if we don't make a start soon, like 10 years ago, the data shows it highly likely it will be irreversible, self feed back loops have already began, we've observed about 24 already, the Arctic clathrates have already started(nasa has a paper on them) and we've known about that problem for about ten years... So if we dilly dally much longer we may well be proper fucked I think it is a case of there is too much power (money) tied up in petrochemicals, and we all know profit comes before everything. Even it costs our extinction through making our home uninhabitable." . This is very very true, if you ever have an argument with people about climate change you'll pretty much hear lots and lots of stuff that's all over the web and YouTube, it's all bollocks but quite believable sounding bollocks pretty much like most politicans rhetoric(trump/Clinton/Tories/ukip even the EU! add your preference)... If you do happen to come across it you can pretty much guarantee its funded by a few think tanks like the the heartland institute or the Cato think tank or American institute for prosperity... All paid for by the koch brothers to the tune of hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars to basically push disinformation and doubt on the science(and to be honest al gore and his stupid fucking films don't help) although the name was very apt..... Now if anybody should be shot for treason to the human race those two fuckers are it! | |||
" Then we are still shit at it." . No not really, were just not realising the free market to find solutions, you'll find were actually really good at it given the chance and the will to do it | |||
"? Then it starts with creating and storing electricity from non-carbon fuels, not electric cars and trains. I am afraid that at the moment we are pretty shit at that.. No not really, were really fucking great at ingenuity, the main problem is people still don't think it's a problem, some blame lies there with science academics being conservative by nature.... With some serious push it's quite possible to bring down those emissions by 2035 the problem lies if we don't make a start soon, like 10 years ago, the data shows it highly likely it will be irreversible, self feed back loops have already began, we've observed about 24 already, the Arctic clathrates have already started(nasa has a paper on them) and we've known about that problem for about ten years... So if we dilly dally much longer we may well be proper fucked nobody really cares !and all the tree hugging and research will not stop china and india who by the way are a little bit bigger than us, growing and growing. by that i mean polluting at a far greater rate than ever dreamed of before .enjoy life people hug a tree if it turns you on xx " . I suppose at least your honest | |||
"It is funny really, so many people voted to leave the EU because they were told it would reduce immigration (that got the racist vote), would return power to the UK that the EU had taken (that got the vote of those who have been disposed by 35 years of right wing tory policies) and of course those who believed all the sit that Murdock and co have pumped out from their propaganda sheets over the 35 years on behalf of themselves and their corrupt corporate mates. Soon we will all be paying the price of leaving the EU. As we roll back all the social return the the workhouse society of the 18th and 19th centuries." What utter tosh..... | |||
"? Then it starts with creating and storing electricity from non-carbon fuels, not electric cars and trains. I am afraid that at the moment we are pretty shit at that.. No not really, were really fucking great at ingenuity, the main problem is people still don't think it's a problem, some blame lies there with science academics being conservative by nature.... With some serious push it's quite possible to bring down those emissions by 2035 the problem lies if we don't make a start soon, like 10 years ago, the data shows it highly likely it will be irreversible, self feed back loops have already began, we've observed about 24 already, the Arctic clathrates have already started(nasa has a paper on them) and we've known about that problem for about ten years... So if we dilly dally much longer we may well be proper fucked nobody really cares !and all the tree hugging and research will not stop china and india who by the way are a little bit bigger than us, growing and growing. by that i mean polluting at a far greater rate than ever dreamed of before .enjoy life people hug a tree if it turns you on xx . I suppose at least your honest" Utter crap. So the carbon emissions created by dinosaurs killed them off then, and the last ice age must have been caused by the growth in industry and carbon fuel burning appliances | |||
"That's very true, there was no reference to the single market on the ballot paper, there were so many variations of a post EU put forward by so many individuals from both remain and leave and the electorate just voted in or out....with no thought on either side of the argument as to what that ultimately meant. The difference is we KNOW what its like to be in the EU and now 17.5 million want to KNOW what it is like outside the EU. Not one person on here or anywhere else can say what it is going to be like for the UK when we finally leave the EU no one knows. So until we leave its ALL speculation. "How does the rest of world survive with out being part of the corrupt and self centred EU, which is run by a bunch of self opinionated twats | |||
"I think you caught my sarcasm!. I'm the one who thinks climate change is real and the biggest danger we face in the coming decades.... Yes I've read about hydrogen,i just don't see where your going to get the hydrogen from in any substantial amount? Thank you, at times by brand of sarcasm is missed. *takes a bow*
Your point about where to get hydrogen from is easy to answer...
We get it from water (it is a simple process we pass electricity through sea water and get sea salt as a byproduct) using wind and wave power. We store the hydrogen and vent the O2 to air, and substitute the H2 to power conventional hydrocarbon generators to start with. We continue increase renewable generation to a point that we have surplus H2 fuel to our base generation needs, convert road vehicles to run on H2 and quickly move to a position where we no longer need hydrocarbons.
Of course there is one problem with this...
In order to placate and support the powerful petrochemical industry our government would rather burn hydrocarbons than fully utilise our existing renewable energy generation capability (next time you are out look at all the wind turbines that are not working when one or two of a farm are) and ask yourself why all are not working.
". Oh yes I'm not denying hydrogen is there for stuff but you've got the problem of thermal dynamics and getting less energy out than you put in, so if we're already producing 50mw of clean electricity there's little point using alot of it to make 38mw of hydrogen of course some of it will come in handy for powering stuff we just can't power from electric.. Like big boats maybe or some necessary airline flights. The numbers game of fossil fuel is hard to replace by one source, the world uses 80 million barrels a day and puts out 4000 tonnes a second of c02.... These are tough nuts to crack, fossil fuel is cheap, energy intensive and there.... And then you add in the fact that the most powerful and richest interest group in the world will fight tooth and nail to the death to keep their businesses!. | |||
"? Then it starts with creating and storing electricity from non-carbon fuels, not electric cars and trains. I am afraid that at the moment we are pretty shit at that.. No not really, were really fucking great at ingenuity, the main problem is people still don't think it's a problem, some blame lies there with science academics being conservative by nature.... With some serious push it's quite possible to bring down those emissions by 2035 the problem lies if we don't make a start soon, like 10 years ago, the data shows it highly likely it will be irreversible, self feed back loops have already began, we've observed about 24 already, the Arctic clathrates have already started(nasa has a paper on them) and we've known about that problem for about ten years... So if we dilly dally much longer we may well be proper fucked nobody really cares !and all the tree hugging and research will not stop china and india who by the way are a little bit bigger than us, growing and growing. by that i mean polluting at a far greater rate than ever dreamed of before .enjoy life people hug a tree if it turns you on xx . I suppose at least your honest Utter crap. So the carbon emissions created by dinosaurs killed them off then, and the last ice age must have been caused by the growth in industry and carbon fuel burning appliances" . There you go....I said you read this claptrap all the time, it's straight from the heartland institute!. . I'm afraid it's d- minus for your science and your history... But I'll give you a b for the minge | |||
" Then we are still shit at it.. No not really, were just not realising the free market to find solutions, you'll find were actually really good at it given the chance and the will to do it" So we are still shit at it? | |||
"This is very very true, if you ever have an argument with people about climate change you'll pretty much hear lots and lots of stuff that's all over the web and YouTube, it's all bollocks but quite believable sounding bollocks pretty much like most politicans rhetoric(trump/Clinton/Tories/ukip even the EU! add your preference)... If you do happen to come across it you can pretty much guarantee its funded by a few think tanks like the the heartland institute or the Cato think tank or American institute for prosperity... All paid for by the koch brothers to the tune of hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars to basically push disinformation and doubt on the science(and to be honest al gore and his stupid fucking films don't help) although the name was very apt..... Now if anybody should be shot for treason to the human race those two fuckers are it!" You know about the Koch brothers, kudos! I love how they were able to divert all the money 'the biggest US corporation no one has heard of' should have paid in US taxes to fund and direct the Republican Tea Party to change tax and employment laws for the benefit of the Kosh brothers and determent of US workers... | |||
" Then we are still shit at it.. No not really, were just not realising the free market to find solutions, you'll find were actually really good at it given the chance and the will to do it So we are still shit at it?" . Hmmm you do know the difference to being shit at something and never having tried it in the first place?.... I'm pretty sure some virgins were shit at sex, some were pretty good, some were shit hot and some people have been at it years and still shit at it! | |||
| |||
"This is very very true, if you ever have an argument with people about climate change you'll pretty much hear lots and lots of stuff that's all over the web and YouTube, it's all bollocks but quite believable sounding bollocks pretty much like most politicans rhetoric(trump/Clinton/Tories/ukip even the EU! add your preference)... If you do happen to come across it you can pretty much guarantee its funded by a few think tanks like the the heartland institute or the Cato think tank or American institute for prosperity... All paid for by the koch brothers to the tune of hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars to basically push disinformation and doubt on the science(and to be honest al gore and his stupid fucking films don't help) although the name was very apt..... Now if anybody should be shot for treason to the human race those two fuckers are it! You know about the Koch brothers, kudos! I love how they were able to divert all the money 'the biggest US corporation no one has heard of' should have paid in US taxes to fund and direct the Republican Tea Party to change tax and employment laws for the benefit of the Kosh brothers and determent of US workers... "There the definition of evil, their own paid for scientists gave them a memo in 1981 telling them your industry is going to cause the world to warm and it will cause problems.... At least if they were uniformed they might have some sort of defence!. You know it disturbs me that back in the early 1900s the American supreme court could break up standard oil but today we can't even break up the banks!! Their influence has extended further than anyone can grasp | |||
" Then we are still shit at it.. No not really, were just not realising the free market to find solutions, you'll find were actually really good at it given the chance and the will to do it So we are still shit at it?. Hmmm you do know the difference to being shit at something and never having tried it in the first place?.... I'm pretty sure some virgins were shit at sex, some were pretty good, some were shit hot and some people have been at it years and still shit at it!" I also know the difference between having hopes and being shit at it. | |||
"There the definition of evil, their own paid for scientists gave them a memo in 1981 telling them your industry is going to cause the world to warm and it will cause problems.... At least if they were uniformed they might have some sort of defence!. You know it disturbs me that back in the early 1900s the American supreme court could break up standard oil but today we can't even break up the banks!! Their influence has extended further than anyone can grasp" It is because of the likes of the Kosh brothers, the petrochemical industry and the Tobacco industry that I believe the only hope for humanity is mixed economies run by societies based in socialism. We as a species have to get beyond the unadulterated greed of unregulated unaccountable corporate capitalism. | |||
" Then we are still shit at it.. No not really, were just not realising the free market to find solutions, you'll find were actually really good at it given the chance and the will to do it So we are still shit at it?. Hmmm you do know the difference to being shit at something and never having tried it in the first place?.... I'm pretty sure some virgins were shit at sex, some were pretty good, some were shit hot and some people have been at it years and still shit at it! I also know the difference between having hopes and being shit at it." . Let me run this by you a different way... Take a good long look around your house, car, workplace, town, buildings and look at the ingenuity that's taken place on it, hell just look at the phone or PC your on, we do ingenuity really really well... But first you have to set it a task, the task is to restructure the entire way we do things so it uses 80% less c02 .... You start by giving it incentive, say a carbon tax that rises year on year, you redistribute all the tax back to everybody on an equity basis, the more c02 you produce the more tax you pay and the more you invest in getting out of paying the tax.... The less c02 you produce the more money you get from the tax rebate as your not putting any in, therefore your discouraged from creating future c02.... The free market knowing the tax rises every year will constantly innovate and give you new technology to get out of paying the tax..... . . Now we could argue all day long about wether were shit at something or not but really that won't solve the problem of a fucked up planet in 30 years, the science really isn't interested in any of that malarkey. Don't get me the wrong the choices aren't great, i wouldn't choose them but they are what they are | |||
| |||
" Then we are still shit at it.. No not really, were just not realising the free market to find solutions, you'll find were actually really good at it given the chance and the will to do it So we are still shit at it?. Hmmm you do know the difference to being shit at something and never having tried it in the first place?.... I'm pretty sure some virgins were shit at sex, some were pretty good, some were shit hot and some people have been at it years and still shit at it! I also know the difference between having hopes and being shit at it.. Let me run this by you a different way... Take a good long look around your house, car, workplace, town, buildings and look at the ingenuity that's taken place on it, hell just look at the phone or PC your on, we do ingenuity really really well... But first you have to set it a task, the task is to restructure the entire way we do things so it uses 80% less c02 .... You start by giving it incentive, say a carbon tax that rises year on year, you redistribute all the tax back to everybody on an equity basis, the more c02 you produce the more tax you pay and the more you invest in getting out of paying the tax.... The less c02 you produce the more money you get from the tax rebate as your not putting any in, therefore your discouraged from creating future c02.... The free market knowing the tax rises every year will constantly innovate and give you new technology to get out of paying the tax..... . . Now we could argue all day long about wether were shit at something or not but really that won't solve the problem of a fucked up planet in 30 years, the science really isn't interested in any of that malarkey. Don't get me the wrong the choices aren't great, i wouldn't choose them but they are what they are" Then get your fooking scientists to do it? | |||
".... . . Now we could argue all day long about wether were shit at something or not but really that won't solve the problem of a fucked up planet in 30 years, the science really isn't interested in any of that malarkey. Don't get me the wrong the choices aren't great, i wouldn't choose them but they are what they are Then get your fooking scientists to do it?" . I don't have any scientists on me right now?? I don't suppose you could bum me one! | |||
"This thread has become an uber socialists love in" . Don't start with your uber!! Your only just coming to terms with this climate science | |||
".... . . Now we could argue all day long about wether were shit at something or not but really that won't solve the problem of a fucked up planet in 30 years, the science really isn't interested in any of that malarkey. Don't get me the wrong the choices aren't great, i wouldn't choose them but they are what they are Then get your fooking scientists to do it?. I don't have any scientists on me right now?? I don't suppose you could bum me one!" Nah. If I could find one who can do what you are suggesting, I suspect that he would be very much in demand. | |||
| |||
| |||
" I think the idea is no airport expansion!. Instead moving to trains, trams, electric cars, bikes it's a huge transfer of infrastructure away from fossil fuel to clean fuel and seen as we've got a 500 gigaton limit on limiting c02 too, that really needs to be used for that infrastructure change and not weekends in Barcelona...... Or we blow the whole lot on a crazy summer in Ibiza then sit back with the memories while the earth goes toast??? I'm open to that idea myself
Ah, yes, trains, trams and electric cars. That would help. Not. You realise that they are all primarily carbon based, both in manufacture and fuel?
Greens seem the first to shout "electric cars." Where does most of the electricity come from? How are they manufactured?.
Well sir, it's a very tough nut to crack, in fact carbon leaching from soil is the biggest problem you face after fossil fuels and animal production for food...
Anyhow yes c02 it's everywhere that's the problem, so you what you do is start at the top and work your way down, now fossil fuels are producing 63% of our c02 emissions and then animal husbandry(c02 and methane) your NEVER going to get 0 emissions, however seen as we know where the big emissions are that's where you shout(as you like to put it) after that you can shout about vegetarianism ,reducing consumerism, traveling less, eating less.... We've got to cut c02 emissions by nearly 80% by 2035(18 years) if we're to keep to the Paris accord which states the world should not consider going over 2 degrees above base line but preferably 1.5 degrees(they added that bit after wrangling with south Africa and the Maldives as there'd be pretty much fucking gone at 2 degrees).... So there's the problem....as the Chinese say a journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step
Indeed.
And it doesn't start with electric cars. Or trams. Or trains.
Well you can run trams trains cars and bikes today from electricity and you make electricity from sources other than fossil fuels.... And that's where we are im afraid so well, yes it does start there.... Unless you've got a better idea?"There's an increased consumer awareness and demand for CSR policy than there was even 10 years ago. Consumer demand rules everything, therefore public awareness is crucial. If more onus is placed on the airlines to innovate the industry, it will tip the balance that's needed to create a workable solution by industry leaders. These developing innovations need to be published more frequently, so people can start to get excited about what the future could look like. A hypothesis could become reality, but only if its publicised and marketed in the right way first. | |||
"When we voted to leave the EU Really? So you think getting rid of the EU and their pesky employment regulations and withdrawing from the ECHR is good for the people? " Just as a point of information, The ECHR (European Convention on Human Rights) and the ECrHR (European Court of Human Rights) have nothing to do with being in or out of the EU. We've been members and signatories to the ECHR since 1947, in fact the UK is the founding member. I am saying this as a point of information and not because I support BREXIT in anyway; in fact I'm probably the most Anti-BREXIT person on this site but I do think it is important that the arguments, on both sides, are based on truth, not myths. | |||
"35 years of right wing Tory policies? We had a Labour government for 13 years from 1997 onwards. I agree, but don't forget they comrade Corbyn's fans think that Blair was right wing. It is pointless debating them, they have made Labour unelectable. So if we are stuck with the Tories for the next 20 years, it is all their fault... Not labour, new labour which was nothing but tory policy packaged in a different way. As for the comrade Corbyn comment you would do well to read and listen to his policies, rather than how the right wing report his policies. Because on most things when people are told his policies without knowing they are Corbyn policies they agree with them. For the record most (me included) do not agree with his anti nuclear policies, but considering he has been a life long member of CND why would anyone be surprised that he voted against the Trident replacement? " I probably won't if I was given enough time to think about them but that's not really the problem. Corbyn's policies make him unelectable to anyone who is not already left of centre; Corbyn himself makes himself unelectable to a vast amount of people who are left of centre. There is almost no chance of Labour winning the next election regardless of what this government does now. | |||
"It matters little, no party with any sense wants to be in power for the next decade, the government that rules for this period will be the one that gets all the blame for Brexit from either the leave or the remain side..... Far better to avoid this period of uncertainty and anger from both sides of the argument, and then come in after that and appear as a knight in shining armour on a galloping white steed. far better to do nothing? Why does that attitude not surprise me? Now is the time for someone with balls to go down in history. And yes, history will remember them well when we are taken out of the EU. Better to avoid this period, ffs
Until of course Theresa May agrees to something in the negotiations that many Leavers, including YOU, don't agree with.
Then all of a sudden they won't have balls, they will be selling your ideology out, that's the problem with the Leave voters, ask any 100 what they wanted out of a vote to leave and you will get 30 or 40 different answers. There was no firm plan that everyone would agree to, it was a personal game plan for every Leave voter.
For some it was immigration and not just a reduction but a total halt to immigration, some others just wanted an end to EU immigration, some even believed it would mean less Muslims coming into the UK! THen some believe that EU migrants already here should be allowed to stay, others think they should all go home.
So Theresa May will come out of this hated by so many Leavers who will believe she sold them out.
The government of the day can't and won't win the support of the whole country, they won't even win the support of the majority of voters who wanted to leave.
In short it's a lose/lose situation for Theresa May.
I have told you before I don't have an ideology and I'm sure most who voted out don't, we just did what we thought was best for the country and in time will be proved correct. No government is going to please all of the people all of the time but as long as we are taken out of the EU and the single market then the government will have the majorities support. They'll probably even get a lot of support from some who voted to remain when they realise that hey, we can still go on our holidays after all
The majority did not vote to leave the single market. Various models were discussed, including the Norway model, the Swiss model etc. I don't recall hardly anyone promoting the lunacy of walking away from the single market.
everyone who voted to leave the EU voted to leave the single market. Leaving the single market is not lunacy at all it is common sense and economically advantageous. David Cameron said on live TV that voting to leave the EU was a vote to leave the single market. Why do you think people didn't want to do that or didn't understand what he said? "It doesn't really matter why they voted, it's what they voted that counts. And what people voted for was to leave the EU. They were not given a vote on whether we should leave the Single Market or anything else. The referendum gives the government a mandate to leave the EU, nothing more and nothing less. Some may have voted to leave the EU because they wanted to leave the Single Market, some may have voted to leave the EU because they wanted to stop, decrease or control immigration from the EU, some may have voted to leave the EU because they want British laws to be made by British politicians. You can not assume that just because you voted to leave the EU so we could leave the Single Market that everyone else did. There is no mandate to leave the Single Market, only to leave the EU. | |||
"I chose a good day to fly to Malaga for the day just cos I fancied some proper Tapas then? I guess there are some people who would say that my like of tapas is killing other people ... I still like Tapas.. You've just not realised your no different to everybody else you slag off on a daily basis stating experts everybody should listen to but completely ignoring experts you don't like the conclusions of!. Enjoy your tapas
I thought the experts had said Heathrow was the best option? .
Well you can go and read through anything written by the tens of thousands of climate scientists who going off the data recommended putting less c02 into the air!...
.
I think you mean the experts who are being paid by Heathrow to say Heathrow is the best solution?.
.
Kevin Anderson runs the Tyndall centre in Manchester, he's probably one of the world's leading experts on climate change I'd post a link but I think it's not allowed, however if you google it, he will come
Is there a difference in the amount of CO2 based on which airport they put the new runway at? .
I think the idea is no airport expansion!.
Instead moving to trains, trams, electric cars, bikes it's a huge transfer of infrastructure away from fossil fuel to clean fuel and seen as we've got a 500 gigaton limit on limiting c02 too, that really needs to be used for that infrastructure change and not weekends in Barcelona...... Or we blow the whole lot on a crazy summer in Ibiza then sit back with the memories while the earth goes toast??? I'm open to that idea myself
Or electric planes? It would take ages to cycle to New Zealand or New York..
Well until we get solar powered planes and we're not there but we've started I'm afraid it might mean no flying, I know the inhumanity of it.... Or you can fly against all the experts advise and data and just kill everybody?.
Choice is yours.... Me I don't mind killing people, I'm all for it, most of them are fucking nuts who can't understand basic science... But I'm thinking about the children, so I don't "I don't think any of the experts are saying Climate Change is going to kill everyone, are they? | |||
"When we voted to leave the EU Really? So you think getting rid of the EU and their pesky employment regulations and withdrawing from the ECHR is good for the people? Just as a point of information, The ECHR (European Convention on Human Rights) and the ECrHR (European Court of Human Rights) have nothing to do with being in or out of the EU. We've been members and signatories to the ECHR since 1947, in fact the UK is the founding member. I am saying this as a point of information and not because I support BREXIT in anyway; in fact I'm probably the most Anti-BREXIT person on this site but I do think it is important that the arguments, on both sides, are based on truth, not myths." As a point of information, I said 'getting rid of EU regulations AND with drawing from the ECHR'. The and implies 2 different acts. The first is achieved by leaving the EU. The second is the proposed withdrawal from the European Convention of Human Rights. An act that Ms May has said will follow leaving the EU (we cant before hand because being a signatory to the convention is a prerequisite of EU membership). The European Court of Human Rights is the enforcing arm of the ECHR and so your point is (like many of your posts) a total red herring. | |||
"It matters little, no party with any sense wants to be in power for the next decade, the government that rules for this period will be the one that gets all the blame for Brexit from either the leave or the remain side..... Far better to avoid this period of uncertainty and anger from both sides of the argument, and then come in after that and appear as a knight in shining armour on a galloping white steed."
A lot like individual politicians who kept quiet or suddenly decided not to run for the prime minister job. It was a poisoned chalice that Cameron handed over. Theresa May had kept publicly quiet during the referendum, despite being a hardline remainder - probably to let the others get soiled, should brexit win. Still, she's now thrown herself under the bus. | |||
".. Or you can fly against all the experts advise and data and just kill everybody?. Choice is yours.... Me I don't mind killing people, I'm all for it, most of them are fucking nuts who can't understand basic science... But I'm thinking about the children, so I don't
I don't think any of the experts are saying Climate Change is going to kill everyone, are they?". Err yeah, the former head of nasa and IPCC member since the 80s Jim Hansen has been very vocal about the problems since leaving the constraints of the conservative body which is the IPCC, I mean any body that comes to an agreement has to find middle ground that suits the thousands of voices, so the IPCC has this 2100 date that everything will be fucked by if we don't act soon, over the last few decades the data has shown that to be quite ridiculous based on linear worsening which was proven wrong itself decades ago, most observations show the problem to be far greater than the models predicted, and 2100 was bad enough but the last few observations and data evidence shows artic free summer ice now by 2020-2025 that's 80 years ahead of the models, the grandchildren analogy went by the by 16 years ago. . If you want to see it in action today just look at Florida's 400 million dollar work to raise whole regions by three feet because there already flooding every high tide, every day!. The oceanographers have really come to fruition with work done in the last twenty years and they understand much more now about how the oceans are taking the bulk of the heating(over 90%) the acidification of oceans from added c02 is another huge problem, we've basically turned the oceans more acidic than in the last 2 million years and we've done that in 50 years, that's no time for evolution to make jumps, 80% of the world's oxygen is produced by phytoplankton an organism highly suspectable to acidification and for the last twenty years in decline.... . The real problem with climate change experts if there all physicists, astro- physicists, paleontologist, geologists,.... Ask biologists what happens when you wipe out 100-200 species a week like what humans are doing and how that changes the biosphere?.... That's an extinction rate not seen since the ptme 200 million plus years ago!!.. Were in the middle of the sixth extinction already | |||
| |||
"It matters little, no party with any sense wants to be in power for the next decade, the government that rules for this period will be the one that gets all the blame for Brexit from either the leave or the remain side..... Far better to avoid this period of uncertainty and anger from both sides of the argument, and then come in after that and appear as a knight in shining armour on a galloping white steed. far better to do nothing? Why does that attitude not surprise me? Now is the time for someone with balls to go down in history. And yes, history will remember them well when we are taken out of the EU. Better to avoid this period, ffs
Until of course Theresa May agrees to something in the negotiations that many Leavers, including YOU, don't agree with.
Then all of a sudden they won't have balls, they will be selling your ideology out, that's the problem with the Leave voters, ask any 100 what they wanted out of a vote to leave and you will get 30 or 40 different answers. There was no firm plan that everyone would agree to, it was a personal game plan for every Leave voter.
For some it was immigration and not just a reduction but a total halt to immigration, some others just wanted an end to EU immigration, some even believed it would mean less Muslims coming into the UK! THen some believe that EU migrants already here should be allowed to stay, others think they should all go home.
So Theresa May will come out of this hated by so many Leavers who will believe she sold them out.
The government of the day can't and won't win the support of the whole country, they won't even win the support of the majority of voters who wanted to leave.
In short it's a lose/lose situation for Theresa May.
I have told you before I don't have an ideology and I'm sure most who voted out don't, we just did what we thought was best for the country and in time will be proved correct. No government is going to please all of the people all of the time but as long as we are taken out of the EU and the single market then the government will have the majorities support. They'll probably even get a lot of support from some who voted to remain when they realise that hey, we can still go on our holidays after all
The majority did not vote to leave the single market. Various models were discussed, including the Norway model, the Swiss model etc. I don't recall hardly anyone promoting the lunacy of walking away from the single market.
everyone who voted to leave the EU voted to leave the single market. Leaving the single market is not lunacy at all it is common sense and economically advantageous. David Cameron said on live TV that voting to leave the EU was a vote to leave the single market. Why do you think people didn't want to do that or didn't understand what he said?
It doesn't really matter why they voted, it's what they voted that counts. And what people voted for was to leave the EU. They were not given a vote on whether we should leave the Single Market or anything else. The referendum gives the government a mandate to leave the EU, nothing more and nothing less. Some may have voted to leave the EU because they wanted to leave the Single Market, some may have voted to leave the EU because they wanted to stop, decrease or control immigration from the EU, some may have voted to leave the EU because they want British laws to be made by British politicians. You can not assume that just because you voted to leave the EU so we could leave the Single Market that everyone else did. There is no mandate to leave the Single Market, only to leave the EU.
"Quite correct - and I can't see that the referendum question could have been posed in any different way. Remain on present terms. Remain but only (Choice of 20 options, each with multiple options). Leave but only ... | |||
