FabSwingers.com > Forums > Politics > The brexit effect.
The brexit effect.
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"Because there has been no precedent to work by I don't think anyone really knows the time frame, but it could well drag on for years."  | |||
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"I feel certain we will not be out in 2 years,it will take a lot longer because so many MP's in parliament want to stay as they do not do what the people want. Parliament is filled with traitors in my view in all parties the people want out. The EU do not want it to be easy for us as to stop others leaving,yes getting out fully may take many years unfortunately,we need UKIP for many years yet I think." A lot depends on what happens over the next two years as this is the first time any country has left the EU no one knows how long it will take. | |||
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"Wait until Boris performs another U turn. Rumour has it that this is absolutely on the cards as May drags the leaderless majority liberal conservatives too far right. He will wait until the economy is on the brink and the conservatives risk a vote of no confidence before publicly announcing his "realisation of the situation and how morally he has to do what is right for the country." The UK will not leave the EU and May, Davis and Gove will be distant memories in just a couple of years. " In your dreams even if Boris did do a U-turn May would just replace him in my opinion. | |||
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"Boris has become an irrelevance, if the stories posted on here are correct. If he is really hovering between leave and remain, then he might as well admit he is dead in the water. The truth of the matter is that no matter how many scare tactics are employed, the majority of British people want out of the EU. I'm getting bored with being dragged into this "debate," and so will step aside from now on. It's like herding cats." That's exactly what they want you to do you should do what I do only reply to certain peoples posts the ones that YOU think make sense and are not aggressive.  | |||
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"Messy divorce, fuck me.... we must still have something left that they want then." It is more that the uk want to be in the single market and still have trade deals with the eu without any tariffs. | |||
"Messy divorce, fuck me.... we must still have something left that they want then.It is more that the uk want to be in the single market and still have trade deals with the eu without any tariffs." Sounds like a good idea for all concerned. | |||
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"May felt the effect and was given the cold shoulder at brussels eu summit meeting, she have no friends left." It was not the cold shoulder. The EU wanted to discuss their negotiation tactics but did not want to show their cards to us. Come on, May, lay your cards on the table. Not. | |||
"May felt the effect and was given the cold shoulder at brussels eu summit meeting, she have no friends left." The EU need to be careful who they shun they may need us again one day when the shit hits the fan for them. | |||
"May felt the effect and was given the cold shoulder at brussels eu summit meeting, she have no friends left. The EU need to be careful who they shun they may need us again one day when the shit hits the fan for them. "I love this response, if they are nice to us know, when the shit hits the fan for them, and they ask us to rejoin the EU, we'll rejoin will we? | |||
"May felt the effect and was given the cold shoulder at brussels eu summit meeting, she have no friends left. The EU need to be careful who they shun they may need us again one day when the shit hits the fan for them.
I love this response, if they are nice to us know, when the shit hits the fan for them, and they ask us to rejoin the EU, we'll rejoin will we? "No. On the other hand, if they want a common market, we would be there in a shot. | |||
"May felt the effect and was given the cold shoulder at brussels eu summit meeting, she have no friends left. The EU need to be careful who they shun they may need us again one day when the shit hits the fan for them.
I love this response, if they are nice to us know, when the shit hits the fan for them, and they ask us to rejoin the EU, we'll rejoin will we?
No. On the other hand, if they want a common market, we would be there in a shot."Your wasting your time if the EU had STAYED a trading group instead of trying to RULE Europe we would all have been happy but some on here cant see that. | |||
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"Does anyone for out actually know what a trade deal is of how it works? A raft of regulations are generated. You know, red tape. These defines what various products are and the standards that they meet so that everyone knows that they are buying and selling what they think they are. Different goods and services may or may not be taxed at different rates. This is bureaucracy. If we sign a trade deal with one country or group then we apply common tariffs to anyone else. This means that any further negotiations require the agreement of those we already have agreements with. This will all be easy, quick and great so it makes complete sense to kick our biggest trading partners into touch immediately "Why do you think it would be good to kick our biggest trading partners into touch? Ah, you were being sarcastic. Noone thinks that would be a good thing to do. | |||
"Does anyone for out actually know what a trade deal is of how it works? A raft of regulations are generated. You know, red tape. These defines what various products are and the standards that they meet so that everyone knows that they are buying and selling what they think they are. Different goods and services may or may not be taxed at different rates. This is bureaucracy. If we sign a trade deal with one country or group then we apply common tariffs to anyone else. This means that any further negotiations require the agreement of those we already have agreements with. This will all be easy, quick and great so it makes complete sense to kick our biggest trading partners into touch immediately
Why do you think it would be good to kick our biggest trading partners into touch? Ah, you were being sarcastic.
Noone thinks that would be a good thing to do."So why in gods' names did we vote leave? | |||
"Does anyone for out actually know what a trade deal is of how it works? A raft of regulations are generated. You know, red tape. These defines what various products are and the standards that they meet so that everyone knows that they are buying and selling what they think they are. Different goods and services may or may not be taxed at different rates. This is bureaucracy. If we sign a trade deal with one country or group then we apply common tariffs to anyone else. This means that any further negotiations require the agreement of those we already have agreements with. This will all be easy, quick and great so it makes complete sense to kick our biggest trading partners into touch immediately
Why do you think it would be good to kick our biggest trading partners into touch? Ah, you were being sarcastic.
Noone thinks that would be a good thing to do.
So why in gods' names did we vote leave?"You didn't. Others did. It might have been because the leavers had a different political view from you. | |||
"Does anyone for out actually know what a trade deal is of how it works? A raft of regulations are generated. You know, red tape. These defines what various products are and the standards that they meet so that everyone knows that they are buying and selling what they think they are. Different goods and services may or may not be taxed at different rates. This is bureaucracy. If we sign a trade deal with one country or group then we apply common tariffs to anyone else. This means that any further negotiations require the agreement of those we already have agreements with. This will all be easy, quick and great so it makes complete sense to kick our biggest trading partners into touch immediately
Why do you think it would be good to kick our biggest trading partners into touch? Ah, you were being sarcastic.
Noone thinks that would be a good thing to do.
So why in gods' names did we vote leave?"I heard many voted because they didnt think they would leave. | |||
"Does anyone for out actually know what a trade deal is of how it works? A raft of regulations are generated. You know, red tape. These defines what various products are and the standards that they meet so that everyone knows that they are buying and selling what they think they are. Different goods and services may or may not be taxed at different rates. This is bureaucracy. If we sign a trade deal with one country or group then we apply common tariffs to anyone else. This means that any further negotiations require the agreement of those we already have agreements with. This will all be easy, quick and great so it makes complete sense to kick our biggest trading partners into touch immediately
Why do you think it would be good to kick our biggest trading partners into touch? Ah, you were being sarcastic.
Noone thinks that would be a good thing to do.
So why in gods' names did we vote leave?I heard many voted because they didnt think they would leave."Of course. Perfectly logical to vote for a destination that you don't want. | |||
"I saw it on sky news few weeks ago, did you? It was interesting, one thing that stands out is that uk can not leave eu after 2 years, one top german politician said it could take 5 years and more with a messy divorse and if they want a hard brexit they will get it, but with consequences, also uk owes £21 billion. Whats your view on it and on the divorce? " The sooner we get started the sooner we can leave then. As a brexiteer I really don't care how long it takes, a majority voted leave so we must leave. Article 50 will be triggered in March and I think the deal with be done and dusted within 2 years. Let's not forget the EU is in crisis, an Italian bank is having to be bailed out, and I think the elections in France, Germany and Netherlands in 2017 will deliver very difficult results for the EU. The EU will need to take a long hard look at itself if it wants to continue to exist, and may have to change some of its 'principles'. The EU is stuck in the past and needs to change with the times we are now living in. The EU can't afford a messy divorce with the UK, it will be in their interests as much as ours to do a good deal and to make it quick rather than to drag it out over years and years. As Daniel Hannan said on Newsnight the other week, prosperous neighbours make good neighbours, if we prosper then the EU benefits from it as we will do more trade with them, and we are one of the EU's biggest export markets. | |||
"Why do you think it would be good to kick our biggest trading partners into touch? Ah, you were being sarcastic. Noone thinks that would be a good thing to do." So what happens if the results of the negotiations end up as binary like the referendum? No immigration and tariff barriers to the EU or free EU immigration and free access? We can, of course do either and the result of the referendum will have been honoured. It's possible to use all manner of emotive words, but that would be objectively true with or without a vote in Parliament or another referendum | |||
"I feel certain we will not be out in 2 years,it will take a lot longer because so many MP's in parliament want to stay as they do not do what the people want. Parliament is filled with traitors in my view in all parties the people want out. The EU do not want it to be easy for us as to stop others leaving,yes getting out fully may take many years unfortunately,we need UKIP for many years yet I think." I am happy to not call Brexiters "idiots" or "racists" so can you agree to not call Remainers and MPs "traitors" ? | |||
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"Many in luton are in the dark if they can keep they work at vauxhall, nissan also wasnt sure for the future with brexit." That's actually the summary. A small majority voted for "something else". Whatever the leavers confidently proclaim, that is all that has actually been voted for. "Something else". Nobody knows what. What I still can't get a handle on is why it is now a choice between hard Brexit or a fantasy of trade on the same terms as now with no immigration or fees. Nor do I understand why any discussion and compromise with those who wish to remain is impossible. If you and your partner wanted to spend your savings on different things and one of you spent all of the money on what you wanted, what sort of reaction do you think you'd get? Would it help if you told them to "deal with it"? Would it help calling each other names? Just wondering why how you treat people on a personal level should be any different to how you do so on a national level... | |||
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"a small majority or a large majority. . it doesn't matter, it's still a majority that decided to exit the EU . . . everyone who voted done so in a democratic manner. Why can't some accept that? The result was to leave, not maybe leave or lets have another vote until we get our way! I for the record didn't vote to leave but I stand by the nation's majority decision. Grow up for Christ's sakes. If you don't like the voting system go live elsewhere and adopt their system " So you dont think it was a flawed question that was put to the public then? "Keep things the same or do something different, we're not sure what or how it will effect the country but it will be different." The thing to do was to figure out what the exit terms would be and then people would have been able to make a proper choice. 48% wanted to remain, the rest were divided between a soft brexit and a hard brexit. How do we know a majority want the hard Brexit that youre getting? Maybe 48% wanted to remain, 35% wanted soft brexit or no brexit and 17% wanted the hard beexit or any brexit. We dont know because they asked the question poorly. | |||
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"The question was a fair and straight forward question Do we stay or do we leave? How much plainer can any question be? Would economic success be GUARANTEED if we had voted to stay? No Would economic success be GUARANTEED if we leave? No Nothing is a certainty. . the vote was done, the people decided, whatever their reasons for doing so. . . Accept it, it's called a Democratic Referendum . . . and as such the majority won. " But the question didnt say what Brexit even was. If they negotiate a Brexit that has zero special access to the euro market, if funding to the NHS gets cut as a result and the UK opens up immigration to India and Pakistan to fill employment gaps will that reflect the will of the people? If they negotiate free access to the market and no free movement at all and they can increase funding for schools, nhs and tax cuts somehow will that reflect the will of the people? Because they are 2 very, very different situations. 2 very different exits and some people will be in favour of one but not the other. | |||
"a small majority or a large majority. . it doesn't matter, it's still a majority that decided to exit the EU . . . everyone who voted done so in a democratic manner. Why can't some accept that? The result was to leave, not maybe leave or lets have another vote until we get our way! I for the record didn't vote to leave but I stand by the nation's majority decision. Grow up for Christ's sakes. If you don't like the voting system go live elsewhere and adopt their system " Straight question. If your party loses the general election would you expect it to not question the government and oppose it where appropriate? Would you not expect Parliament to review its policies? If not, then fine. You are being consistent but what is your definition of democracy? I'm not saying we don't leave the EU. Almost nobody is so please don't characterise those opposing the current direction of travel. That is a caricature that makes it easy to dismiss opposition as "moaning" and "anti-democratic". The only vote being proposed is if the population accept the exit deal. Is that anymore complicated than the vote to leave? It's certainly going to be more clear what the result will be. | |||
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"my personal definition of democracy is the government acts for the people by means of majority voting. the majority voted to leave. End of. The ruling government should respect the voting public's decision. Whichever way that goes. As to the steps taken next on how we should proceed is up to that government. . Yes oppose decisions any government makes, that's everyone's right, vote in a different government at the appropriate time But to stay or leave was a decision left to the population. And that in my mind must stand, otherwise it turns the whole system into a farce. . . you can't have a minority overruling a majority. Hard or soft, in our favour or not its happening. " I do, perhaps, take exception to your view that a government should be free to introduce any law in any manner until it is voted out. I was always under the impression that a government rules by consent and consequently represents and takes notice of the entire population when ruling. You may have noticed that I said exactly what you have about the referendum, so I'm mystified as to what you're disagreeing with me about. | |||
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We are leaving the EU, get used to it, or move away. | |||
"some like some on this thread have been listening far to much to their hero Tony Blair and want to follow in his footsteps
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We are leaving the EU, get used to it, or move away."...and there it is. The "decisive" argument that doesn't address the point, only expecting The question to be answered is whining 
Beautiful. Aggression and cowardice rolled up in one tidy package  | |||
"some like some on this thread have been listening far to much to their hero Tony Blair and want to follow in his footsteps
.
We are leaving the EU, get used to it, or move away.
...and there it is. The "decisive" argument that doesn't address the point, only expecting The question to be answered is whining
Beautiful. Aggression and cowardice rolled up in one tidy package "keyboard warrior the question was; Whats your view on it and on the divorce? I voted to Leave, we are leaving, anyone that disagrees, - get used to it, because again, we are leaving . | |||
"some like some on this thread have been listening far to much to their hero Tony Blair and want to follow in his footsteps
.
We are leaving the EU, get used to it, or move away.
...and there it is. The "decisive" argument that doesn't address the point, only expecting The question to be answered is whining
Beautiful. Aggression and cowardice rolled up in one tidy package
keyboard warrior
the question was; Whats your view on it and on the divorce?
I voted to Leave, we are leaving, anyone that disagrees, - get used to it, because again,
we are leaving
.
"Leave is not defined. Leave could be the same as Norwegian or Swiss non-membership. Get over it! We are leaving and those two options are just as valid | |||
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"some like some on this thread have been listening far to much to their hero Tony Blair and want to follow in his footsteps
.
We are leaving the EU, get used to it, or move away.
...and there it is. The "decisive" argument that doesn't address the point, only expecting The question to be answered is whining
Beautiful. Aggression and cowardice rolled up in one tidy package
keyboard warrior
the question was; Whats your view on it and on the divorce?
I voted to Leave, we are leaving, anyone that disagrees, - get used to it, because again,
we are leaving
.
"you would never have guessed that you voted leave! I think we will be technically out within 2 years- neither side want it to drag on. But we will be paying into it for years. All those pensions for the likes of Farage and British civil servants who have worked in the EU for over 40 years..... | |||
"some like some on this thread have been listening far to much to their hero Tony Blair and want to follow in his footsteps
.
We are leaving the EU, get used to it, or move away.
...and there it is. The "decisive" argument that doesn't address the point, only expecting The question to be answered is whining
Beautiful. Aggression and cowardice rolled up in one tidy package
keyboard warrior
the question was; Whats your view on it and on the divorce?
I voted to Leave, we are leaving, anyone that disagrees, - get used to it, because again,
we are leaving
.
Leave is not defined. Leave could be the same as Norwegian or Swiss non-membership.
Get over it! We are leaving and those two options are just as valid "not just as valid at all but out of curiosity, why do Norway and Switzerland not want to be members of the EU do you think? | |||
"some like some on this thread have been listening far to much to their hero Tony Blair and want to follow in his footsteps
.
We are leaving the EU, get used to it, or move away.
...and there it is. The "decisive" argument that doesn't address the point, only expecting The question to be answered is whining
Beautiful. Aggression and cowardice rolled up in one tidy package
keyboard warrior
the question was; Whats your view on it and on the divorce?
I voted to Leave, we are leaving, anyone that disagrees, - get used to it, because again,
we are leaving
.
you would never have guessed that you voted leave!
I think we will be technically out within 2 years- neither side want it to drag on. But we will be paying into it for years. All those pensions for the likes of Farage and British civil servants who have worked in the EU for over 40 years....."and we will also be able to withdraw our investments and assets if we want to | |||
"I do believe at the end of the day, you are the one that is pissed off that we are leaving I am sure the Lady will negotiate a good exit "Of course I am. We are leaving though. Didn't you know?
Faith and belief. All excellent economic, domestic and foreign policy planning tools | |||
"my personal definition of democracy is the government acts for the people by means of majority voting. the majority voted to leave. End of. The ruling government should respect the voting public's decision. Whichever way that goes. As to the steps taken next on how we should proceed is up to that government. . Yes oppose decisions any government makes, that's everyone's right, vote in a different government at the appropriate time But to stay or leave was a decision left to the population. And that in my mind must stand, otherwise it turns the whole system into a farce. . . you can't have a minority overruling a majority. Hard or soft, in our favour or not its happening. I do, perhaps, take exception to your view that a government should be free to introduce any law in any manner until it is voted out. I was always under the impression that a government rules by consent and consequently represents and takes notice of the entire population when ruling. You may have noticed that I said exactly what you have about the referendum, so I'm mystified as to what you're disagreeing with me about. " But laws are made by the government, bills pass thru the Commons then make their way to the Lord's . . Then, when amendments are made in both houses the law is passed and goes into the Big Book . . | |||
" Faith and belief. All excellent economic, domestic and foreign policy planning tools "And blind faith at that At least they are consistent. It'll be a total mindfuck if the "failed eu project" doesn't in fact implode | |||
"some like some on this thread have been listening far to much to their hero Tony Blair and want to follow in his footsteps
.
We are leaving the EU, get used to it, or move away.
...and there it is. The "decisive" argument that doesn't address the point, only expecting The question to be answered is whining
Beautiful. Aggression and cowardice rolled up in one tidy package
keyboard warrior
the question was; Whats your view on it and on the divorce?
I voted to Leave, we are leaving, anyone that disagrees, - get used to it, because again,
we are leaving
.
Leave is not defined. Leave could be the same as Norwegian or Swiss non-membership.
Get over it! We are leaving and those two options are just as valid
not just as valid at all but out of curiosity, why do Norway and Switzerland not want to be members of the EU do you think?"Switzerland was a neutrality and banking issue. And Norway was a fishing issue. Norways votes were only very narrowly decided both times. They decided to stick with the certainty of keeping things as they are than the uncertainty of the unknown. | |||
"The question was a fair and straight forward question Do we stay or do we leave? How much plainer can any question be? Would economic success be GUARANTEED if we had voted to stay? No Would economic success be GUARANTEED if we leave? No Nothing is a certainty. . the vote was done, the people decided, whatever their reasons for doing so. . . Accept it, it's called a Democratic Referendum . . . and as such the majority won. " But what did they actually decide? Yes, the majority of those that voted voted to leave the EU but, as Nigel Farage often pointed out, Norway, Iceland, Lichtenstein and Switzerland are not in the EU but are in the internal/single market; Turkey is not in the EU or the internal/single market but is in the Customs Union. Switzerland's membership of the internal/single market is not via any one treaty or agreement but via a number of bilateral agreements between Switzerland and the EU (which is exactly what many BREXITers said they wanted for the UK post BREXIT). So a vote for BREXIT can actually be a vote for anything other than actually being in the EU. Many BREXITers claim they new exactly what they were voting for but how could they when we still don't know even now what we'll actually get. I'll accept that many who voted BREXIT may well have known what they hopped BREXIT would be but no one actually knows or knew what it actually will be. | |||
"some like some on this thread have been listening far to much to their hero Tony Blair and want to follow in his footsteps
.
We are leaving the EU, get used to it, or move away."If tony blair didnt get bullied to give power to gordon brown in 97, we wouldnt have a brexit. | |||
"But laws are made by the government, bills pass thru the Commons then make their way to the Lord's . . Then, when amendments are made in both houses the law is passed and goes into the Big Book . . " Laws are proposed by government and amended and passed or voted down. Is there a reason that various aspects of the negotiation should not be authorised in the same way? Is there fundamentally a problem with a change being required by a referendum not being confirmed in the same way? The government has given an ultimatum of our deal or nothing to try to avoid this from happening. How democratic is that? | |||
" and we will also be able to withdraw our investments and assets if we want to "We can do that now. So can anybody, government or private. Well spotted though. | |||
" Many BREXITers claim they new exactly what they were voting for but how could they when we still don't know even now what we'll actually get. I'll accept that many who voted BREXIT may well have known what they hopped BREXIT would be but no one actually knows or knew what it actually will be. " This is mission creep. Having achieved the initial goal the next step is to deny that as the end of it and claim that the "real" intention was always something different. Nobody at all from the leave side, certainly not from those who post here, have been able to even acknowledge that the Swiss or Norwegian models answer the referendum question. Still waiting but I expect to be invited to leave the country instead | |||
" Many BREXITers claim they new exactly what they were voting for but how could they when we still don't know even now what we'll actually get. I'll accept that many who voted BREXIT may well have known what they hopped BREXIT would be but no one actually knows or knew what it actually will be. This is mission creep. Having achieved the initial goal the next step is to deny that as the end of it and claim that the "real" intention was always something different. Nobody at all from the leave side, certainly not from those who post here, have been able to even acknowledge that the Swiss or Norwegian models answer the referendum question. Still waiting but I expect to be invited to leave the country instead "You are correct that no one knows what anything will be like when we leave the EU but we also don't know what the EU will be like by 2019. I keep reading about EU officials saying they know the EU needs reform so why don't they get on with it or at least tell people what they are hoping to do. A lot of people across the EU are unhappy with it as it is so it will fail if there is no reforms. Imo. | |||
" Nobody at all from the leave side, certainly not from those who post here, have been able to even acknowledge that the Swiss or Norwegian models answer the referendum question. Still waiting but I expect to be invited to leave the country instead
You are correct that no one knows what anything will be like when we leave the EU but we also don't know what the EU will be like by 2019.
I keep reading about EU officials saying they know the EU needs reform so why don't they get on with it or at least tell people what they are hoping to do. A lot of people across the EU are unhappy with it as it is so it will fail if there is no reforms. Imo. "All very reasonable and absolutely correct. Reform will or will not happen without our input now. However, we are now concerned with What form leaving takes. There are lots of valid options. We need to decide which one as an entire country surely? | |||
" Nobody at all from the leave side, certainly not from those who post here, have been able to even acknowledge that the Swiss or Norwegian models answer the referendum question. Still waiting but I expect to be invited to leave the country instead
You are correct that no one knows what anything will be like when we leave the EU but we also don't know what the EU will be like by 2019.
I keep reading about EU officials saying they know the EU needs reform so why don't they get on with it or at least tell people what they are hoping to do. A lot of people across the EU are unhappy with it as it is so it will fail if there is no reforms. Imo.
All very reasonable and absolutely correct. Reform will or will not happen without our input now.
However, we are now concerned with What form leaving takes. There are lots of valid options. We need to decide which one as an entire country surely?"How is this possible? Its hard enough to get 3 people to agree on something never mind a country, its up to the government now to get the best deal it can but while we keep on arguing about what we all want we could end up with nothing. | |||
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"England will be like ireland with a north and south divide." Why a lot of people south of London voted to leave. | |||
" How is this possible? Its hard enough to get 3 people to agree on something never mind a country, its up to the government now to get the best deal it can but while we keep on arguing about what we all want we could end up with nothing. " The job of government is to try to achieve this. To take the country along with it, not just consider it's own political requirements as there is nothing to indicate that even all leave voters want an all or nothing approach let alone remainers. That hasn't been offered at all has it? | |||
" How is this possible? Its hard enough to get 3 people to agree on something never mind a country, its up to the government now to get the best deal it can but while we keep on arguing about what we all want we could end up with nothing. The job of government is to try to achieve this. To take the country along with it, not just consider it's own political requirements as there is nothing to indicate that even all leave voters want an all or nothing approach let alone remainers. That hasn't been offered at all has it?" own political requirements? I thought the government wanted to remain? | |||
"England will be like ireland with a north and south divide. Why a lot of people south of London voted to leave." Yes, but it will be a more complicated divide. | |||
" How is this possible? Its hard enough to get 3 people to agree on something never mind a country, its up to the government now to get the best deal it can but while we keep on arguing about what we all want we could end up with nothing. The job of government is to try to achieve this. To take the country along with it, not just consider it's own political requirements as there is nothing to indicate that even all leave voters want an all or nothing approach let alone remainers. That hasn't been offered at all has it?" The government at the time asked the country a question we answered now the government have to do their best for the UK. We may well end up having another referendum on the final deal but will it be a take it or leave it vote which wont please everyone. | |||
"England will be like ireland with a north and south divide. Why a lot of people south of London voted to leave.Yes, but it will be a more complicated divide." Cant get much more divided than we are now except for Scotland getting independence. | |||
"England will be like ireland with a north and south divide. Why a lot of people south of London voted to leave.Yes, but it will be a more complicated divide. Cant get much more divided than we are now except for Scotland getting independence." I think we can get more divided.You could carve up England into special economic zones or regions that want to be free of Westminster. Manchester and Cornwall and the north east.They like to collect their own taxes and spend it where they think its needed.Post brexit i think nothings off the table . | |||
"England will be like ireland with a north and south divide. Why a lot of people south of London voted to leave.Yes, but it will be a more complicated divide. Cant get much more divided than we are now except for Scotland getting independence.I think we can get more divided.You could carve up England into special economic zones or regions that want to be free of Westminster. Manchester and Cornwall and the north east.They like to collect their own taxes and spend it where they think its needed.Post brexit i think nothings off the table ." I think your dreaming a bit with post tbh. | |||
"England will be like ireland with a north and south divide. Why a lot of people south of London voted to leave.Yes, but it will be a more complicated divide. Cant get much more divided than we are now except for Scotland getting independence.I think we can get more divided.You could carve up England into special economic zones or regions that want to be free of Westminster. Manchester and Cornwall and the north east.They like to collect their own taxes and spend it where they think its needed.Post brexit i think nothings off the table . I think your dreaming a bit with post tbh. "I dont want it to happen.I think scousers and mancs and geordies and the cornish see themselves as distinct as the scots or the welsh and feel neglected by Westminster. Devolution in England if it happens will be lead by Manchester.I guess it would mean even more referendums.  | |||
"England will be like ireland with a north and south divide. Why a lot of people south of London voted to leave.Yes, but it will be a more complicated divide. Cant get much more divided than we are now except for Scotland getting independence.I think we can get more divided.You could carve up England into special economic zones or regions that want to be free of Westminster. Manchester and Cornwall and the north east.They like to collect their own taxes and spend it where they think its needed.Post brexit i think nothings off the table . I think your dreaming a bit with post tbh. I dont want it to happen.I think scousers and mancs and geordies and the cornish see themselves as distinct as the scots or the welsh and feel neglected by Westminster. Devolution in England if it happens will be lead by Manchester.I guess it would mean even more referendums. "I would,nt want to see it happen either but Yorkshire is a big county so should ok if it did. | |||
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"Messy divorce, fuck me.... we must still have something left that they want then." Sure thing: The billions invested in the UK and that UK owes to Europe. X | |||
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"I am watching panorama on bbc1 now and it is about slough and brexit, it is interesting." Does it involve friendly bombs? | |||
"I am watching panorama on bbc1 now and it is about slough and brexit, it is interesting." Oh, all those naughty racist "first generation " migrants. | |||
"Wait until Boris performs another U turn. Rumour has it that this is absolutely on the cards as May drags the leaderless majority liberal conservatives too far right. He will wait until the economy is on the brink and the conservatives risk a vote of no confidence before publicly announcing his "realisation of the situation and how morally he has to do what is right for the country." The UK will not leave the EU and May, Davis and Gove will be distant memories in just a couple of years. " I doubt it they will be in the memories for many many years | |||
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"Juan is saying that britain can rejoin eu ." Of course we can. We won't get the spectacularly good deal that we do now relative to everyone else. | |||
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"The EU would take Britain back, not for the financial reasons that Brexiters think matters but because of military and political reasons. More than ever the EU needs to be strong politically as we deal with the threat of Putin. But wanting Britain to return is another reason to make the Brexit deal a poison pill for the UK to swallow. The worse Brexit is on the UK the more likely they are to return." Why would the UK want to rejoin? If the EU are so good why would they want to punish any country for wanting to leave? All the EU had to do at the start of 2016 is agree to reform its open boarder policy and Brexit would never have happened. Imo | |||
"Juan is saying that britain can rejoin eu . Of course we can. We won't get the spectacularly good deal that we do now relative to everyone else." That is right and they know it too, they say on average a deal is done in 4 years or more and not 2. | |||
"The EU would take Britain back, not for the financial reasons that Brexiters think matters but because of military and political reasons. More than ever the EU needs to be strong politically as we deal with the threat of Putin. But wanting Britain to return is another reason to make the Brexit deal a poison pill for the UK to swallow. The worse Brexit is on the UK the more likely they are to return. Why would the UK want to rejoin? If the EU are so good why would they want to punish any country for wanting to leave? All the EU had to do at the start of 2016 is agree to reform its open boarder policy and Brexit would never have happened. Imo" The free movement of people is a key part of being in the EU. Its a major part of being in it so its not something you can unilaterally opt out of. It would be like telling your wife you want all the good parts of marriage but youre opting out of all the housework because even if theres benefits to it, you dont like it. The EU isnt going to punish you. Its taking the stance of Brexit means Brexit. And that means all the benefits that you enjoyed will soon be gone. If youre (somehow) better off by having your exports taxed and having the tories cut worker protections and direct the money that the EU was putting into research and infrastructure to tax cuts for the rich then you made the right decision. But this is what Brexit means: Exports to your main trading partner will be taxed The UK will be forced to impose import duties raising the cost of living You'll have to pay tens of billions to the EU to get out of the deals you agreed to Unless you believe the Tories are going to change their spots and start funding education and infrastructure instead of tax cuts they'll both suffer Businesses will have to move partly or completely to the EU to avoid massive tax bills costing Britain jobs Less jobs means more burden on social spending Higher unemployment leads to increases in crime, alcohol and drug abuse, suicides and mental health issues and domestic abuse Anything that needs to be exported to the EU will also still have to adhere to the EUs standards You also have zero leverage with the EU. Everything the EU wants from the UK is definitely off the table as a result of the referendum. The benefits of the UK were political unity, military, pan european standards, research and development cooperation, security cooperation and anti terrorism and freedom of movement. All gone because of Brexit. So now you have next to nothing to offer us we're not gonna give you the things you wanted. To go back to the marriage analogy, tell your wife that you want a divorce all of a sudden. Then tell her that youre not going to help out with the kids or see them again, youre taking the car and everything you own of value, your not going to help out or do anything to support her any longer. Then ask her for a favourable divorce settlement because its the right thing to do all the while your mates brag around town about how your lawyer is going to take her to the cleaners in the divorce. Thats pretty much what Brexit is from the EUs side of things. | |||
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" Live in a fantasy world pal, like Tim farron and Blair! WE will negotiate as hard ball with them as vice versa!! As t may said, no deal is better than bad! And ur scenario off mass unemployment and crime, is exactly wot Spain Greece, Italy etc etc etc. ( youth unemployment 55pc in EU for decade! ! Some thing that will never happen here!"
But you dont have anything to negotiate with. Everything the EU wants is already off the table.
If the EU makes demands you dont want to agree with what are you going to do? Rejoin the EU so you can leave us a second time?
If you threaten us with import duty we'll match it. 46% of your exports go to the EU while only 8% of our exports go to the UK. You'll get destroyed in a trade war.
Impose travel restrictions on EU citizens. We'll impose one on the UK. But it would tank your tourism and a huge amount of businesses and your people would be up in arms. Economic and political suicide.
Walk away and do no deal? Then you get the WTO tarriffs which are, by definition, the worst terms available for all products and services damaging your export market further. It would also take years for the UK to formalise its new relationship with the WTO with all members having to agree.
So if you give us terms we dont like we can put in import duties that could cripple your economy. We can block your adoption of the WTO terms and leave you without terms of trade for anyone in the world.
Theres also no share of global trade marked out for Britain. Theres a quota on what we can export to the US and vice versa under WTO. The EU owns that quota and divides it up between members. So if the EU is allowed to export 40,000 tons of beef to Canada each year we keep that allowance. The UK can try and negotiate for an additional share from Canada but Canadian farmers would be hellbent onpreventing adding more competition so it wont go far. And it would also take years to negotiate.
So the negotiations will be on the EUs terms because we can offer you some of our quotas if you do thinga the way we say. Or we can get into a trade war and put you on less favourable terms with the world than North Korea has by not giving up our quota and blocking you from adopting WTO.
Your empty bluster and loud mouth mean nothing in the real world Im afraid. | |||
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"They said with brexit, there could be a hard border in ireland with custom controls, can there be a united ireland?" Not in the next decade at least. Theres a decent compromise in place that people are willing to live with and its led to peace. Only the fringe on either side want to change things at the moment and even they arent pushing very hard for it. The Irish govt is pushing very hard for a "frictionless" border. No one knows exactly how that would work just yet but the EU seems very receptive to it and the UK would be insane to draw trouble on themselves by opposing it. | |||
"They said with brexit, there could be a hard border in ireland with custom controls, can there be a united ireland? Not in the next decade at least. Theres a decent compromise in place that people are willing to live with and its led to peace. Only the fringe on either side want to change things at the moment and even they arent pushing very hard for it. The Irish govt is pushing very hard for a "frictionless" border. No one knows exactly how that would work just yet but the EU seems very receptive to it and the UK would be insane to draw trouble on themselves by opposing it." That is right and at least they are talking about it and lets hope it happens in the future, it is kinda like germany with east and west, when they had it. | |||
" Live in a fantasy world pal, like Tim farron and Blair! WE will negotiate as hard ball with them as vice versa!! As t may said, no deal is better than bad! And ur scenario off mass unemployment and crime, is exactly wot Spain Greece, Italy etc etc etc. ( youth unemployment 55pc in EU for decade! ! Some thing that will never happen here!
But you dont have anything to negotiate with. Everything the EU wants is already off the table.
If the EU makes demands you dont want to agree with what are you going to do? Rejoin the EU so you can leave us a second time?
If you threaten us with import duty we'll match it. 46% of your exports go to the EU while only 8% of our exports go to the UK. You'll get destroyed in a trade war.
Impose travel restrictions on EU citizens. We'll impose one on the UK. But it would tank your tourism and a huge amount of businesses and your people would be up in arms. Economic and political suicide.
Walk away and do no deal? Then you get the WTO tarriffs which are, by definition, the worst terms available for all products and services damaging your export market further. It would also take years for the UK to formalise its new relationship with the WTO with all members having to agree.
So if you give us terms we dont like we can put in import duties that could cripple your economy. We can block your adoption of the WTO terms and leave you without terms of trade for anyone in the world.
Theres also no share of global trade marked out for Britain. Theres a quota on what we can export to the US and vice versa under WTO. The EU owns that quota and divides it up between members. So if the EU is allowed to export 40,000 tons of beef to Canada each year we keep that allowance. The UK can try and negotiate for an additional share from Canada but Canadian farmers would be hellbent onpreventing adding more competition so it wont go far. And it would also take years to negotiate.
So the negotiations will be on the EUs terms because we can offer you some of our quotas if you do thinga the way we say. Or we can get into a trade war and put you on less favourable terms with the world than North Korea has by not giving up our quota and blocking you from adopting WTO.
Your empty bluster and loud mouth mean nothing in the real world Im afraid."You plainly dont understand how the wto works | |||
"They said with brexit, there could be a hard border in ireland with custom controls, can there be a united ireland? Not in the next decade at least. Theres a decent compromise in place that people are willing to live with and its led to peace. Only the fringe on either side want to change things at the moment and even they arent pushing very hard for it. The Irish govt is pushing very hard for a "frictionless" border. No one knows exactly how that would work just yet but the EU seems very receptive to it and the UK would be insane to draw trouble on themselves by opposing it. That is right and at least they are talking about it and lets hope it happens in the future, it is kinda like germany with east and west, when they had it." Lol, yeah I remember from my history classes that 'frictionless' would be a good description of the border between East and West Germany. Good grief. -Matt | |||
" Live in a fantasy world pal, like Tim farron and Blair! WE will negotiate as hard ball with them as vice versa!! As t may said, no deal is better than bad! And ur scenario off mass unemployment and crime, is exactly wot Spain Greece, Italy etc etc etc. ( youth unemployment 55pc in EU for decade! ! Some thing that will never happen here!
But you dont have anything to negotiate with. Everything the EU wants is already off the table.
If the EU makes demands you dont want to agree with what are you going to do? Rejoin the EU so you can leave us a second time?
If you threaten us with import duty we'll match it. 46% of your exports go to the EU while only 8% of our exports go to the UK. You'll get destroyed in a trade war.
Impose travel restrictions on EU citizens. We'll impose one on the UK. But it would tank your tourism and a huge amount of businesses and your people would be up in arms. Economic and political suicide.
Walk away and do no deal? Then you get the WTO tarriffs which are, by definition, the worst terms available for all products and services damaging your export market further. It would also take years for the UK to formalise its new relationship with the WTO with all members having to agree.
So if you give us terms we dont like we can put in import duties that could cripple your economy. We can block your adoption of the WTO terms and leave you without terms of trade for anyone in the world.
Theres also no share of global trade marked out for Britain. Theres a quota on what we can export to the US and vice versa under WTO. The EU owns that quota and divides it up between members. So if the EU is allowed to export 40,000 tons of beef to Canada each year we keep that allowance. The UK can try and negotiate for an additional share from Canada but Canadian farmers would be hellbent onpreventing adding more competition so it wont go far. And it would also take years to negotiate.
So the negotiations will be on the EUs terms because we can offer you some of our quotas if you do thinga the way we say. Or we can get into a trade war and put you on less favourable terms with the world than North Korea has by not giving up our quota and blocking you from adopting WTO.
Your empty bluster and loud mouth mean nothing in the real world Im afraid.
You plainly dont understand how the wto works"That description was pretty much my understanding of WTO quotas etc. In which way is it a misunstanding? -Matt | |||
" Live in a fantasy world pal, like Tim farron and Blair! WE will negotiate as hard ball with them as vice versa!! As t may said, no deal is better than bad! And ur scenario off mass unemployment and crime, is exactly wot Spain Greece, Italy etc etc etc. ( youth unemployment 55pc in EU for decade! ! Some thing that will never happen here!
But you dont have anything to negotiate with. Everything the EU wants is already off the table.
If the EU makes demands you dont want to agree with what are you going to do? Rejoin the EU so you can leave us a second time?
If you threaten us with import duty we'll match it. 46% of your exports go to the EU while only 8% of our exports go to the UK. You'll get destroyed in a trade war.
Impose travel restrictions on EU citizens. We'll impose one on the UK. But it would tank your tourism and a huge amount of businesses and your people would be up in arms. Economic and political suicide.
Walk away and do no deal? Then you get the WTO tarriffs which are, by definition, the worst terms available for all products and services damaging your export market further. It would also take years for the UK to formalise its new relationship with the WTO with all members having to agree.
So if you give us terms we dont like we can put in import duties that could cripple your economy. We can block your adoption of the WTO terms and leave you without terms of trade for anyone in the world.
Theres also no share of global trade marked out for Britain. Theres a quota on what we can export to the US and vice versa under WTO. The EU owns that quota and divides it up between members. So if the EU is allowed to export 40,000 tons of beef to Canada each year we keep that allowance. The UK can try and negotiate for an additional share from Canada but Canadian farmers would be hellbent onpreventing adding more competition so it wont go far. And it would also take years to negotiate.
So the negotiations will be on the EUs terms because we can offer you some of our quotas if you do thinga the way we say. Or we can get into a trade war and put you on less favourable terms with the world than North Korea has by not giving up our quota and blocking you from adopting WTO.
Your empty bluster and loud mouth mean nothing in the real world Im afraid.
You plainly dont understand how the wto works
That description was pretty much my understanding of WTO quotas etc. In which way is it a misunstanding?
-Matt"The fact that the uk wont be a member of the wto and it would take years to be a full member, all members of the eu are members of the wto in their own right and the eu cant impose worse terms than standard tariffs, the highest tariffs are indeed in the food sector where we import far more from the eu so they will suffer cars etc are 9/10% if I remember correctly. While free trade is better for everyone wto rule trade wont be as bad as you scare mongerers try and make out, its strange how our trade with the rest of the world is growing faster than with the eu despite some tariffs,is it because the eu economy is crap ? | |||
" Live in a fantasy world pal, like Tim farron and Blair! WE will negotiate as hard ball with them as vice versa!! As t may said, no deal is better than bad! And ur scenario off mass unemployment and crime, is exactly wot Spain Greece, Italy etc etc etc. ( youth unemployment 55pc in EU for decade! ! Some thing that will never happen here!
But you dont have anything to negotiate with. Everything the EU wants is already off the table.
If the EU makes demands you dont want to agree with what are you going to do? Rejoin the EU so you can leave us a second time?
If you threaten us with import duty we'll match it. 46% of your exports go to the EU while only 8% of our exports go to the UK. You'll get destroyed in a trade war.
Impose travel restrictions on EU citizens. We'll impose one on the UK. But it would tank your tourism and a huge amount of businesses and your people would be up in arms. Economic and political suicide.
Walk away and do no deal? Then you get the WTO tarriffs which are, by definition, the worst terms available for all products and services damaging your export market further. It would also take years for the UK to formalise its new relationship with the WTO with all members having to agree.
So if you give us terms we dont like we can put in import duties that could cripple your economy. We can block your adoption of the WTO terms and leave you without terms of trade for anyone in the world.
Theres also no share of global trade marked out for Britain. Theres a quota on what we can export to the US and vice versa under WTO. The EU owns that quota and divides it up between members. So if the EU is allowed to export 40,000 tons of beef to Canada each year we keep that allowance. The UK can try and negotiate for an additional share from Canada but Canadian farmers would be hellbent onpreventing adding more competition so it wont go far. And it would also take years to negotiate.
So the negotiations will be on the EUs terms because we can offer you some of our quotas if you do thinga the way we say. Or we can get into a trade war and put you on less favourable terms with the world than North Korea has by not giving up our quota and blocking you from adopting WTO.
Your empty bluster and loud mouth mean nothing in the real world Im afraid.
You plainly dont understand how the wto works
That description was pretty much my understanding of WTO quotas etc. In which way is it a misunstanding?
-Matt
The fact that the uk wont be a member of the wto and it would take years to be a full member, all members of the eu are members of the wto in their own right and the eu cant impose worse terms than standard tariffs, the highest tariffs are indeed in the food sector where we import far more from the eu so they will suffer cars etc are 9/10% if I remember correctly. While free trade is better for everyone wto rule trade wont be as bad as you scare mongerers try and make out, its strange how our trade with the rest of the world is growing faster than with the eu despite some tariffs,is it because the eu economy is crap ?"Even that staunch Remainer Bob Geldof admitted the other week the EU is crap. Hardly a ringing endorsement of something he wants us to stay in is it. | |||
" Live in a fantasy world pal, like Tim farron and Blair! WE will negotiate as hard ball with them as vice versa!! As t may said, no deal is better than bad! And ur scenario off mass unemployment and crime, is exactly wot Spain Greece, Italy etc etc etc. ( youth unemployment 55pc in EU for decade! ! Some thing that will never happen here!
But you dont have anything to negotiate with. Everything the EU wants is already off the table.
If the EU makes demands you dont want to agree with what are you going to do? Rejoin the EU so you can leave us a second time?
If you threaten us with import duty we'll match it. 46% of your exports go to the EU while only 8% of our exports go to the UK. You'll get destroyed in a trade war.
Impose travel restrictions on EU citizens. We'll impose one on the UK. But it would tank your tourism and a huge amount of businesses and your people would be up in arms. Economic and political suicide.
Walk away and do no deal? Then you get the WTO tarriffs which are, by definition, the worst terms available for all products and services damaging your export market further. It would also take years for the UK to formalise its new relationship with the WTO with all members having to agree.
So if you give us terms we dont like we can put in import duties that could cripple your economy. We can block your adoption of the WTO terms and leave you without terms of trade for anyone in the world.
Theres also no share of global trade marked out for Britain. Theres a quota on what we can export to the US and vice versa under WTO. The EU owns that quota and divides it up between members. So if the EU is allowed to export 40,000 tons of beef to Canada each year we keep that allowance. The UK can try and negotiate for an additional share from Canada but Canadian farmers would be hellbent onpreventing adding more competition so it wont go far. And it would also take years to negotiate.
So the negotiations will be on the EUs terms because we can offer you some of our quotas if you do thinga the way we say. Or we can get into a trade war and put you on less favourable terms with the world than North Korea has by not giving up our quota and blocking you from adopting WTO.
Your empty bluster and loud mouth mean nothing in the real world Im afraid.
You plainly dont understand how the wto works
That description was pretty much my understanding of WTO quotas etc. In which way is it a misunstanding?
-Matt
The fact that the uk wont be a member of the wto and it would take years to be a full member, all members of the eu are members of the wto in their own right and the eu cant impose worse terms than standard tariffs, the highest tariffs are indeed in the food sector where we import far more from the eu so they will suffer cars etc are 9/10% if I remember correctly. While free trade is better for everyone wto rule trade wont be as bad as you scare mongerers try and make out, its strange how our trade with the rest of the world is growing faster than with the eu despite some tariffs,is it because the eu economy is crap ?"OK, so how will the quotas work then? Yes, the UK is a member of the WTO in it's own right, but ours terms are bundled in with the EU terms. Any many of the quotas are for the EU overall. e.g: "Take just one hard-fought issue: low-duty import quotas for high-quality beef, just two of almost 100 EU quotas. The EU opened these beef quotas after lengthy negotiations with Argentina, Australia, Brazil, Canada, New Zealand, Paraguay, Uruguay, and the US. Extracting UK beef quotas out of the EU’s would require negotiations with all of them, plus possibly other suppliers such as Botswana, India, and Namibia, and definitely the EU itself — Ireland, Germany and France have particularly strong beef lobbies." http://www.ictsd.org/opinion/nothing-simple-about-uk-regaining-wto-status-post-brexit -Matt | |||
" Live in a fantasy world pal, like Tim farron and Blair! WE will negotiate as hard ball with them as vice versa!! As t may said, no deal is better than bad! And ur scenario off mass unemployment and crime, is exactly wot Spain Greece, Italy etc etc etc. ( youth unemployment 55pc in EU for decade! ! Some thing that will never happen here!
But you dont have anything to negotiate with. Everything the EU wants is already off the table.
If the EU makes demands you dont want to agree with what are you going to do? Rejoin the EU so you can leave us a second time?
If you threaten us with import duty we'll match it. 46% of your exports go to the EU while only 8% of our exports go to the UK. You'll get destroyed in a trade war.
Impose travel restrictions on EU citizens. We'll impose one on the UK. But it would tank your tourism and a huge amount of businesses and your people would be up in arms. Economic and political suicide.
Walk away and do no deal? Then you get the WTO tarriffs which are, by definition, the worst terms available for all products and services damaging your export market further. It would also take years for the UK to formalise its new relationship with the WTO with all members having to agree.
So if you give us terms we dont like we can put in import duties that could cripple your economy. We can block your adoption of the WTO terms and leave you without terms of trade for anyone in the world.
Theres also no share of global trade marked out for Britain. Theres a quota on what we can export to the US and vice versa under WTO. The EU owns that quota and divides it up between members. So if the EU is allowed to export 40,000 tons of beef to Canada each year we keep that allowance. The UK can try and negotiate for an additional share from Canada but Canadian farmers would be hellbent onpreventing adding more competition so it wont go far. And it would also take years to negotiate.
So the negotiations will be on the EUs terms because we can offer you some of our quotas if you do thinga the way we say. Or we can get into a trade war and put you on less favourable terms with the world than North Korea has by not giving up our quota and blocking you from adopting WTO.
Your empty bluster and loud mouth mean nothing in the real world Im afraid.
You plainly dont understand how the wto works
That description was pretty much my understanding of WTO quotas etc. In which way is it a misunstanding?
-Matt
The fact that the uk wont be a member of the wto and it would take years to be a full member, all members of the eu are members of the wto in their own right and the eu cant impose worse terms than standard tariffs, the highest tariffs are indeed in the food sector where we import far more from the eu so they will suffer cars etc are 9/10% if I remember correctly. While free trade is better for everyone wto rule trade wont be as bad as you scare mongerers try and make out, its strange how our trade with the rest of the world is growing faster than with the eu despite some tariffs,is it because the eu economy is crap ?"Apparently I do understand the WTO but you cant read. I never said that the UK wasnt or wouldnt be a member of the WTO, you plucked that out of thin air. I said it would take years to formalise your new relationship and it will. You have to negotiate things like the quotas on trade, there were similar deals agreed in 2005 that still havent been implemented and thats without anyone slowing it down intentionally. And thats after the negotiation period. The trade with the rest of the world is growing for the same reason the EUs trade is growing with the rest of the world. The EU have signed some good trade agreements that youre benefitting from. But you lose those exact same trade deals once you leave the EU. So if the deal got the UK better beef sales because Australia wanted to sell milk to France that was a good trade for the EU and Oz. Now you have to do it on your own and you, by definition, wont have as much to offer because you can't offer the other 27 markets. So it seems youre the one that doesnt understand that your growing world trade is due to the EUs trade with them. Shocking turn of events  | |||
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"It does make me laugh / shake my head in amazement when people claim we will get such a better deal with individual countries on our own than within a trading block." That is right, it is better to be part of of it than playing with the devil. I am not sure what they are smoking lol. | |||
" Live in a fantasy world pal, like Tim farron and Blair! WE will negotiate as hard ball with them as vice versa!! As t may said, no deal is better than bad! And ur scenario off mass unemployment and crime, is exactly wot Spain Greece, Italy etc etc etc. ( youth unemployment 55pc in EU for decade! ! Some thing that will never happen here!
But you dont have anything to negotiate with. Everything the EU wants is already off the table.
If the EU makes demands you dont want to agree with what are you going to do? Rejoin the EU so you can leave us a second time?
If you threaten us with import duty we'll match it. 46% of your exports go to the EU while only 8% of our exports go to the UK. You'll get destroyed in a trade war.
Impose travel restrictions on EU citizens. We'll impose one on the UK. But it would tank your tourism and a huge amount of businesses and your people would be up in arms. Economic and political suicide.
Walk away and do no deal? Then you get the WTO tarriffs which are, by definition, the worst terms available for all products and services damaging your export market further. It would also take years for the UK to formalise its new relationship with the WTO with all members having to agree.
So if you give us terms we dont like we can put in import duties that could cripple your economy. We can block your adoption of the WTO terms and leave you without terms of trade for anyone in the world.
Theres also no share of global trade marked out for Britain. Theres a quota on what we can export to the US and vice versa under WTO. The EU owns that quota and divides it up between members. So if the EU is allowed to export 40,000 tons of beef to Canada each year we keep that allowance. The UK can try and negotiate for an additional share from Canada but Canadian farmers would be hellbent onpreventing adding more competition so it wont go far. And it would also take years to negotiate.
So the negotiations will be on the EUs terms because we can offer you some of our quotas if you do thinga the way we say. Or we can get into a trade war and put you on less favourable terms with the world than North Korea has by not giving up our quota and blocking you from adopting WTO.
Your empty bluster and loud mouth mean nothing in the real world Im afraid.
You plainly dont understand how the wto works
That description was pretty much my understanding of WTO quotas etc. In which way is it a misunstanding?
-Matt
The fact that the uk wont be a member of the wto and it would take years to be a full member, all members of the eu are members of the wto in their own right and the eu cant impose worse terms than standard tariffs, the highest tariffs are indeed in the food sector where we import far more from the eu so they will suffer cars etc are 9/10% if I remember correctly. While free trade is better for everyone wto rule trade wont be as bad as you scare mongerers try and make out, its strange how our trade with the rest of the world is growing faster than with the eu despite some tariffs,is it because the eu economy is crap ?
Apparently I do understand the WTO but you cant read.
I never said that the UK wasnt or wouldnt be a member of the WTO, you plucked that out of thin air. I said it would take years to formalise your new relationship and it will. You have to negotiate things like the quotas on trade, there were similar deals agreed in 2005 that still havent been implemented and thats without anyone slowing it down intentionally. And thats after the negotiation period.
The trade with the rest of the world is growing for the same reason the EUs trade is growing with the rest of the world. The EU have signed some good trade agreements that youre benefitting from.
But you lose those exact same trade deals once you leave the EU. So if the deal got the UK better beef sales because Australia wanted to sell milk to France that was a good trade for the EU and Oz. Now you have to do it on your own and you, by definition, wont have as much to offer because you can't offer the other 27 markets.
So it seems youre the one that doesnt understand that your growing world trade is due to the EUs trade with them. Shocking turn of events "To start with I wasnt quoting you it was Matt I was quoting and saying the ul was only a memebr of the WTO by being a member of the eu so perhaps you cant read as well as you claim. If there are trade deals from 2005 that havent being implemented of course they are being slowed down, its no different from unions trying to stop modern working practices home suppliers dont want competition, oh and Australia doesnt export milk to the eu | |||
" This will all be easy, quick and great so it makes complete sense to kick our biggest trading partners into touch immediately "No one is suggesting we stop trading with the EU that is simply the remainers fear mongering. What is being said is we are leaving the single market and the customs union. There is a difference, many countries trade with the EU without being in the single market and the customs union. By doing that they trade with the single market and other markets across the world rather than be restricted by EU rules who we can trade with under what terms | |||
" Your empty bluster and loud mouth mean nothing in the real world Im afraid. You plainly dont understand how the wto works That description was pretty much my understanding of WTO quotas etc. In which way is it a misunstanding? -Matt" Except you fail to realise the UK already has a share of the EU quota and any exteneded talks over the UK keeping their quota would stop the EU trading with Canada within their quota because part of that quota belongs to the UK. Your assumption it would all go to the EU is flawed. The very fact that the EU would have to settle quickly to be able to continue to trade would act as a spur to concentrate minds | |||
" Your empty bluster and loud mouth mean nothing in the real world Im afraid. You plainly dont understand how the wto works That description was pretty much my understanding of WTO quotas etc. In which way is it a misunstanding? -Matt Except you fail to realise the UK already has a share of the EU quota and any exteneded talks over the UK keeping their quota would stop the EU trading with Canada within their quota because part of that quota belongs to the UK. Your assumption it would all go to the EU is flawed. The very fact that the EU would have to settle quickly to be able to continue to trade would act as a spur to concentrate minds" No, the UK doesnt own any part of the trading quotas in the current deals. It uses a portion of the EUs quotas but it has absolutely zero of its own. When the EU has added members in the past its had to wait for renegotiations to increase its share accordingly. So the UK doesnt take that with them when they leave just like countries dont add them when they join. It would actually be relatively simple to add a countries quota to the EUs when they join. But that cannot be done under the framework of international trade treaties so those quotas are gone. When the UK leaves it has absolutely no claim on any of the trade quotas the EU has and will have to either be given the allowance under the EU umbrella until they can renegotiate their own, or they will have to try and negotiate the EU divorce and renegotiate and ratify them in less than 2 years. This is part of the reason that the EU was pushing for the triggering of Article 50, if it was left longer you could have negotiated deals and then left the EU and we'd lose some of our leverage. | |||
" Live in a fantasy world pal, like Tim farron and Blair! WE will negotiate as hard ball with them as vice versa!! As t may said, no deal is better than bad! And ur scenario off mass unemployment and crime, is exactly wot Spain Greece, Italy etc etc etc. ( youth unemployment 55pc in EU for decade! ! Some thing that will never happen here!
But you dont have anything to negotiate with. Everything the EU wants is already off the table.
If the EU makes demands you dont want to agree with what are you going to do? Rejoin the EU so you can leave us a second time?
If you threaten us with import duty we'll match it. 46% of your exports go to the EU while only 8% of our exports go to the UK. You'll get destroyed in a trade war.
Impose travel restrictions on EU citizens. We'll impose one on the UK. But it would tank your tourism and a huge amount of businesses and your people would be up in arms. Economic and political suicide.
Walk away and do no deal? Then you get the WTO tarriffs which are, by definition, the worst terms available for all products and services damaging your export market further. It would also take years for the UK to formalise its new relationship with the WTO with all members having to agree.
So if you give us terms we dont like we can put in import duties that could cripple your economy. We can block your adoption of the WTO terms and leave you without terms of trade for anyone in the world.
Theres also no share of global trade marked out for Britain. Theres a quota on what we can export to the US and vice versa under WTO. The EU owns that quota and divides it up between members. So if the EU is allowed to export 40,000 tons of beef to Canada each year we keep that allowance. The UK can try and negotiate for an additional share from Canada but Canadian farmers would be hellbent onpreventing adding more competition so it wont go far. And it would also take years to negotiate.
So the negotiations will be on the EUs terms because we can offer you some of our quotas if you do thinga the way we say. Or we can get into a trade war and put you on less favourable terms with the world than North Korea has by not giving up our quota and blocking you from adopting WTO.
Your empty bluster and loud mouth mean nothing in the real world Im afraid.
You plainly dont understand how the wto works
That description was pretty much my understanding of WTO quotas etc. In which way is it a misunstanding?
-Matt
The fact that the uk wont be a member of the wto and it would take years to be a full member, all members of the eu are members of the wto in their own right and the eu cant impose worse terms than standard tariffs, the highest tariffs are indeed in the food sector where we import far more from the eu so they will suffer cars etc are 9/10% if I remember correctly. While free trade is better for everyone wto rule trade wont be as bad as you scare mongerers try and make out, its strange how our trade with the rest of the world is growing faster than with the eu despite some tariffs,is it because the eu economy is crap ?
Apparently I do understand the WTO but you cant read.
I never said that the UK wasnt or wouldnt be a member of the WTO, you plucked that out of thin air. I said it would take years to formalise your new relationship and it will. You have to negotiate things like the quotas on trade, there were similar deals agreed in 2005 that still havent been implemented and thats without anyone slowing it down intentionally. And thats after the negotiation period.
The trade with the rest of the world is growing for the same reason the EUs trade is growing with the rest of the world. The EU have signed some good trade agreements that youre benefitting from.
But you lose those exact same trade deals once you leave the EU. So if the deal got the UK better beef sales because Australia wanted to sell milk to France that was a good trade for the EU and Oz. Now you have to do it on your own and you, by definition, wont have as much to offer because you can't offer the other 27 markets.
So it seems youre the one that doesnt understand that your growing world trade is due to the EUs trade with them. Shocking turn of events
To start with I wasnt quoting you it was Matt I was quoting and saying the ul was only a memebr of the WTO by being a member of the eu so perhaps you cant read as well as you claim.
If there are trade deals from 2005 that havent being implemented of course they are being slowed down, its no different from unions trying to stop modern working practices home suppliers dont want competition, oh and Australia doesnt export milk to the eu "I said Australia and milk as a random example as Im pretty sure you know
If you were quoting Matt then you should have quoted his post.
And the trade deals from 2005 arent being slowed down. Thats how long massive trade deals take. Deals on the scale that the UK are going to need for economic survival and multiple deals at that. America,EU, Canada, India, China, Australia among others are some of the huge deals you'll have to negotiate simultaneously in less than 2 years.
Good luck with that | |||
" Live in a fantasy world pal, like Tim farron and Blair! WE will negotiate as hard ball with them as vice versa!! As t may said, no deal is better than bad! And ur scenario off mass unemployment and crime, is exactly wot Spain Greece, Italy etc etc etc. ( youth unemployment 55pc in EU for decade! ! Some thing that will never happen here!
But you dont have anything to negotiate with. Everything the EU wants is already off the table.
If the EU makes demands you dont want to agree with what are you going to do? Rejoin the EU so you can leave us a second time?
If you threaten us with import duty we'll match it. 46% of your exports go to the EU while only 8% of our exports go to the UK. You'll get destroyed in a trade war.
Impose travel restrictions on EU citizens. We'll impose one on the UK. But it would tank your tourism and a huge amount of businesses and your people would be up in arms. Economic and political suicide.
Walk away and do no deal? Then you get the WTO tarriffs which are, by definition, the worst terms available for all products and services damaging your export market further. It would also take years for the UK to formalise its new relationship with the WTO with all members having to agree.
So if you give us terms we dont like we can put in import duties that could cripple your economy. We can block your adoption of the WTO terms and leave you without terms of trade for anyone in the world.
Theres also no share of global trade marked out for Britain. Theres a quota on what we can export to the US and vice versa under WTO. The EU owns that quota and divides it up between members. So if the EU is allowed to export 40,000 tons of beef to Canada each year we keep that allowance. The UK can try and negotiate for an additional share from Canada but Canadian farmers would be hellbent onpreventing adding more competition so it wont go far. And it would also take years to negotiate.
So the negotiations will be on the EUs terms because we can offer you some of our quotas if you do thinga the way we say. Or we can get into a trade war and put you on less favourable terms with the world than North Korea has by not giving up our quota and blocking you from adopting WTO.
Your empty bluster and loud mouth mean nothing in the real world Im afraid.
You plainly dont understand how the wto works
That description was pretty much my understanding of WTO quotas etc. In which way is it a misunstanding?
-Matt
The fact that the uk wont be a member of the wto and it would take years to be a full member, all members of the eu are members of the wto in their own right and the eu cant impose worse terms than standard tariffs, the highest tariffs are indeed in the food sector where we import far more from the eu so they will suffer cars etc are 9/10% if I remember correctly. While free trade is better for everyone wto rule trade wont be as bad as you scare mongerers try and make out, its strange how our trade with the rest of the world is growing faster than with the eu despite some tariffs,is it because the eu economy is crap ?
Apparently I do understand the WTO but you cant read.
I never said that the UK wasnt or wouldnt be a member of the WTO, you plucked that out of thin air. I said it would take years to formalise your new relationship and it will. You have to negotiate things like the quotas on trade, there were similar deals agreed in 2005 that still havent been implemented and thats without anyone slowing it down intentionally. And thats after the negotiation period.
The trade with the rest of the world is growing for the same reason the EUs trade is growing with the rest of the world. The EU have signed some good trade agreements that youre benefitting from.
But you lose those exact same trade deals once you leave the EU. So if the deal got the UK better beef sales because Australia wanted to sell milk to France that was a good trade for the EU and Oz. Now you have to do it on your own and you, by definition, wont have as much to offer because you can't offer the other 27 markets.
So it seems youre the one that doesnt understand that your growing world trade is due to the EUs trade with them. Shocking turn of events
To start with I wasnt quoting you it was Matt I was quoting and saying the ul was only a memebr of the WTO by being a member of the eu so perhaps you cant read as well as you claim.
If there are trade deals from 2005 that havent being implemented of course they are being slowed down, its no different from unions trying to stop modern working practices home suppliers dont want competition, oh and Australia doesnt export milk to the eu
I said Australia and milk as a random example as Im pretty sure you know
If you were quoting Matt then you should have quoted his post.
And the trade deals from 2005 arent being slowed down. Thats how long massive trade deals take. Deals on the scale that the UK are going to need for economic survival and multiple deals at that. America,EU, Canada, India, China, Australia among others are some of the huge deals you'll have to negotiate simultaneously in less than 2 years.
Good luck with that "Duh, his was the last post before mine and if you look really carefully it has his name on it just before my reply
If it is a trade deal as you claim it is and hasnt been implemented then it has been slowed down, remember you said it was a DEAL not discussions, you dont implement discussions you hold them you implement a deal | |||
" No, the UK doesnt own any part of the trading quotas in the current deals. It uses a portion of the EUs quotas but it has absolutely zero of its own. When the EU has added members in the past its had to wait for renegotiations to increase its share accordingly. So the UK doesnt take that with them when they leave just like countries dont add them when they join. It would actually be relatively simple to add a countries quota to the EUs when they join. But that cannot be done under the framework of international trade treaties so those quotas are gone. When the UK leaves it has absolutely no claim on any of the trade quotas the EU has and will have to either be given the allowance under the EU umbrella until they can renegotiate their own, or they will have to try and negotiate the EU divorce and renegotiate and ratify them in less than 2 years. This is part of the reason that the EU was pushing for the triggering of Article 50, if it was left longer you could have negotiated deals and then left the EU and we'd lose some of our leverage." WE did not say the UK owns any quotas of its own but things like quotas are exactly what the EU is talking about when it bandies figures of 60 billion euros about for outstanding commitments and pension liabilities. It is not just what the UK has committed to paying but compensation for privileges the EU owe the UK. This includes quotas of all kinds including the beef quotas you mentioned and fishing quotas etc. That is why there has to be a negotiation before trade talks begin as such things need to be settled as soon as possible. It should also be remembered that the UK is one of the few countries that pays more into the EU than it gets refunded and also if the EU want to penalise the UK with heavy tariffs they are penalising countries like Germany (another country that heavily supports the EU financially) which would have to pay the same tariffs to export to the UK. The UK has a strong hand but it needs to be played sensibly | |||
" If it is a trade deal as you claim it is and hasnt been implemented then it has been slowed down, remember you said it was a DEAL not discussions, you dont implement discussions you hold them you implement a deal " It is a trade deal and thats typically and historically how long its taken for DEALS with the WTO to be implemented. | |||
" WE did not say the UK owns any quotas of its own but things like quotas are exactly what the EU is talking about when it bandies figures of 60 billion euros about for outstanding commitments and pension liabilities. It is not just what the UK has committed to paying but compensation for privileges the EU owe the UK. " It absolutely isn't. There has never been a mention of trade quotas in the calculations of the "divorce bill". It is about the financial commitments the UK has made and possibly costs of Brexit. " That is why there has to be a negotiation before trade talks begin as such things need to be settled as soon as possible. It should also be remembered that the UK is one of the few countries that pays more into the EU than it gets refunded and also if the EU want to penalise the UK with heavy tariffs they are penalising countries like Germany (another country that heavily supports the EU financially) which would have to pay the same tariffs to export to the UK. The UK has a strong hand but it needs to be played sensibly " Nobody cares that you pay more in than you get out, its not a factor in negotiations because the divorce bill will be £60-£100bn and the difference between what you put in and get out is £8.6bn a year. And thats not including the £1bn that the EU pays on the UKs behalf to maintain the commitments the UK has made on foreign aid. And the EU is not going to be worried about a trade war with the UK. We take 44% of your exports and supply 53% of your imports. ~10% of our exports go to the UK. And we can replace those UK customers with EU customers who used to buy British. And if there are tarriffs then you'll see a lot more British based businesses set up new offices in the EU instead. There have already been high profile moves this quickly and we dont even know how bad the deal is going to be. Anyone who actually looks into the figures and the realities sees that the UK has 1 card to play: international goodwill. Thats it. Good luck,you'll need it. | |||
" WE did not say the UK owns any quotas of its own but things like quotas are exactly what the EU is talking about when it bandies figures of 60 billion euros about for outstanding commitments and pension liabilities. It is not just what the UK has committed to paying but compensation for privileges the EU owe the UK. It absolutely isn't. There has never been a mention of trade quotas in the calculations of the "divorce bill". It is about the financial commitments the UK has made and possibly costs of Brexit. That is why there has to be a negotiation before trade talks begin as such things need to be settled as soon as possible. It should also be remembered that the UK is one of the few countries that pays more into the EU than it gets refunded and also if the EU want to penalise the UK with heavy tariffs they are penalising countries like Germany (another country that heavily supports the EU financially) which would have to pay the same tariffs to export to the UK. The UK has a strong hand but it needs to be played sensibly Nobody cares that you pay more in than you get out, its not a factor in negotiations because the divorce bill will be £60-£100bn and the difference between what you put in and get out is £8.6bn a year. And thats not including the £1bn that the EU pays on the UKs behalf to maintain the commitments the UK has made on foreign aid. And the EU is not going to be worried about a trade war with the UK. We take 44% of your exports and supply 53% of your imports. ~10% of our exports go to the UK. And we can replace those UK customers with EU customers who used to buy British. And if there are tarriffs then you'll see a lot more British based businesses set up new offices in the EU instead. There have already been high profile moves this quickly and we dont even know how bad the deal is going to be. Anyone who actually looks into the figures and the realities sees that the UK has 1 card to play: international goodwill. Thats it. Good luck,you'll need it." Which high profile moves? And by your reckoning wouldn't it be better if a few more countries left the EU? Then you could replace all those UK, Spanish, Italian and Dutch or whoever customers with other EU customers. You must be really thankful that the UK is leaving the EU so that everyone else can prosper aren't you? | |||
" WE did not say the UK owns any quotas of its own but things like quotas are exactly what the EU is talking about when it bandies figures of 60 billion euros about for outstanding commitments and pension liabilities. It is not just what the UK has committed to paying but compensation for privileges the EU owe the UK. It absolutely isn't. There has never been a mention of trade quotas in the calculations of the "divorce bill". It is about the financial commitments the UK has made and possibly costs of Brexit. That is why there has to be a negotiation before trade talks begin as such things need to be settled as soon as possible. It should also be remembered that the UK is one of the few countries that pays more into the EU than it gets refunded and also if the EU want to penalise the UK with heavy tariffs they are penalising countries like Germany (another country that heavily supports the EU financially) which would have to pay the same tariffs to export to the UK. The UK has a strong hand but it needs to be played sensibly Nobody cares that you pay more in than you get out, its not a factor in negotiations because the divorce bill will be £60-£100bn and the difference between what you put in and get out is £8.6bn a year. And thats not including the £1bn that the EU pays on the UKs behalf to maintain the commitments the UK has made on foreign aid. And the EU is not going to be worried about a trade war with the UK. We take 44% of your exports and supply 53% of your imports. ~10% of our exports go to the UK. And we can replace those UK customers with EU customers who used to buy British. And if there are tarriffs then you'll see a lot more British based businesses set up new offices in the EU instead. There have already been high profile moves this quickly and we dont even know how bad the deal is going to be. Anyone who actually looks into the figures and the realities sees that the UK has 1 card to play: international goodwill. Thats it. Good luck,you'll need it. Which high profile moves? And by your reckoning wouldn't it be better if a few more countries left the EU? Then you could replace all those UK, Spanish, Italian and Dutch or whoever customers with other EU customers. You must be really thankful that the UK is leaving the EU so that everyone else can prosper aren't you?" The EU is stronger with more members who live up to what the EU is about. With the EU we have the strongest voice possible on the world stage. We can present a united front on dealing with global issues such as Russias aggression. With a larger market we can negotiate better trade deals and with free movement of people we can have more options as citizens. With security cooperation we can be safer and better deal with threats. That all went with Brexit so the benefits of having you in the union are already gone. Unless the tories go against what they say Brexit will be everything we want from the UK is already off the table. The benefits of the UK leaving will be purely economical, all the other benefits are gone and are a loss to the EU and, Id argue, to the UK. | |||
" Nobody cares that you pay more in than you get out, its not a factor in negotiations because the divorce bill will be £60-£100bn and the difference between what you put in and get out is £8.6bn a year. And thats not including the £1bn that the EU pays on the UKs behalf to maintain the commitments the UK has made on foreign aid. And the EU is not going to be worried about a trade war with the UK. We take 44% of your exports and supply 53% of your imports. ~10% of our exports go to the UK. And we can replace those UK customers with EU customers who used to buy British. And if there are tarriffs then you'll see a lot more British based businesses set up new offices in the EU instead. There have already been high profile moves this quickly and we dont even know how bad the deal is going to be. Anyone who actually looks into the figures and the realities sees that the UK has 1 card to play: international goodwill. Thats it. Good luck,you'll need it." Of the total of E.U. countries only 9 are net contributors to the E.U. funding, the other 19 take more out of the E.U. than they put in according to the E.U. Financial Report 2015. The UK is one of the net contributors meaning that when we leave there will be a hole in the E.U. finances which will have to be filled by other members. Tariffs on the exports that those members do with the UK will hurt the E.U. and cannot be made up by internal trade unless it is made up by the remaining 8 contributor countries. You should ask yourself what incentive would there be for such contributor countries to make up the shortfall in funding and accept such a hit to their trade at the same time. The contributor countries will want to trade with the UK without high tariff barriers as that way they will not have a double hit on their economies. | |||
" Nobody cares that you pay more in than you get out, its not a factor in negotiations because the divorce bill will be £60-£100bn and the difference between what you put in and get out is £8.6bn a year. And thats not including the £1bn that the EU pays on the UKs behalf to maintain the commitments the UK has made on foreign aid. And the EU is not going to be worried about a trade war with the UK. We take 44% of your exports and supply 53% of your imports. ~10% of our exports go to the UK. And we can replace those UK customers with EU customers who used to buy British. And if there are tarriffs then you'll see a lot more British based businesses set up new offices in the EU instead. There have already been high profile moves this quickly and we dont even know how bad the deal is going to be. Anyone who actually looks into the figures and the realities sees that the UK has 1 card to play: international goodwill. Thats it. Good luck,you'll need it. Of the total of E.U. countries only 9 are net contributors to the E.U. funding, the other 19 take more out of the E.U. than they put in according to the E.U. Financial Report 2015. The UK is one of the net contributors meaning that when we leave there will be a hole in the E.U. finances which will have to be filled by other members. Tariffs on the exports that those members do with the UK will hurt the E.U. and cannot be made up by internal trade unless it is made up by the remaining 8 contributor countries. You should ask yourself what incentive would there be for such contributor countries to make up the shortfall in funding and accept such a hit to their trade at the same time. The contributor countries will want to trade with the UK without high tariff barriers as that way they will not have a double hit on their economies. " Fair points, but the UK has voted to leave. Tough tits. May is gunning for a hard brexit and taking us out the single market and Davis is saying we'd never answer to the ECJ no matter what. So pretty much we are causing our own damage here. -Matt | |||
" Nobody cares that you pay more in than you get out, its not a factor in negotiations because the divorce bill will be £60-£100bn and the difference between what you put in and get out is £8.6bn a year. And thats not including the £1bn that the EU pays on the UKs behalf to maintain the commitments the UK has made on foreign aid. And the EU is not going to be worried about a trade war with the UK. We take 44% of your exports and supply 53% of your imports. ~10% of our exports go to the UK. And we can replace those UK customers with EU customers who used to buy British. And if there are tarriffs then you'll see a lot more British based businesses set up new offices in the EU instead. There have already been high profile moves this quickly and we dont even know how bad the deal is going to be. Anyone who actually looks into the figures and the realities sees that the UK has 1 card to play: international goodwill. Thats it. Good luck,you'll need it. Of the total of E.U. countries only 9 are net contributors to the E.U. funding, the other 19 take more out of the E.U. than they put in according to the E.U. Financial Report 2015. The UK is one of the net contributors meaning that when we leave there will be a hole in the E.U. finances which will have to be filled by other members. Tariffs on the exports that those members do with the UK will hurt the E.U. and cannot be made up by internal trade unless it is made up by the remaining 8 contributor countries. You should ask yourself what incentive would there be for such contributor countries to make up the shortfall in funding and accept such a hit to their trade at the same time. The contributor countries will want to trade with the UK without high tariff barriers as that way they will not have a double hit on their economies. " Your post is so confused. 1. Divorce bill will cover over a decade of yout net contributions and countries like Ireland have and are moving towards being net contributors. We'll have over 10 years to get other countries there. 2. Tarriffs and contributions are two completely different things but you think theyre the same. Theyre not. The 27 remaining member states will go towards filling the loss in trade. And our new deal with Canada will also help fill that gap. We'll also be getting the benefit of companies having to move to the EU as we've already seen with some companies, particularly the financial sector. | |||
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"Can I ask you why is an Irish guy so worried about the UK leaving ?" Because he lives in a divided Ireland? Because living next to another member state has brought peace and prosperity to both North and South? Because that peace and prosperity is now threatened? I could go on | |||
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"Can I ask you why is an Irish guy so worried about the UK leaving ?" As TinaS said there are security implications for the North which are of huge importance to us. Russian policy documents from the late 90's were leaked that showed that one of their long term goals was to seperate the UK from the rest of Europe to strengthen their position and an aggressive Russia needs to be opposed and contained. And the best way to do that is with a united front. I also have friends in the UK and dont want to see them suffer. The most curious thing about your post is, why wouldnt your closest neighbours worry about you? I know the pro brexit crowd largely dont care about anything other than England (the brexit vote could potentially fuck everything up in Northern Ireland for example) but most people do have some empathy for others, particularly those close to them. | |||
"Can I ask you why is an Irish guy so worried about the UK leaving ? Because he lives in a divided Ireland? Because living next to another member state has brought peace and prosperity to both North and South? Because that peace and prosperity is now threatened? I could go on "And also since brexit the Irish government have been on a major offensive toward companies that have large bases in the UK in a bid to attract investors. US bank JP Morgan have just announced they've bought a major building in Ireland to be staffed by 1000 workers. The bank have stated previously they may have to move staff from London as a result of brexit. I'd imagine a lot of Irish people are following things very closely. | |||
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"So peace in Ireland is threatened coz of brexit and peace in Europe by the Russians realy guys cum on get a grip wtf and u say u AV frends in the uk yr worried about. Wot the hell do u think is going to happen they may go hungry war will break out famine civil unrest ???" Of course peace in Ireland (particularly the North) is threatened by Brexit. Particularly if a hard border is implemented. Both the North and the Republic have seen mutual advantages in being members of the EU. A reinstatement of the border is likely to fuel old resentments. | |||
"So peace in Ireland is threatened coz of brexit and peace in Europe by the Russians realy guys cum on get a grip wtf and u say u AV frends in the uk yr worried about. Wot the hell do u think is going to happen they may go hungry war will break out famine civil unrest ???" Yes, peace in Northern Ireland is very fragile which you'd know if you'd ever paid attention to it. A hard border between Ireland and Northern Ireland would put everything at risk. Because it would undo a lot of the compromises that make peace possible. It would also put the idea of a United Ireland front and center and that alone could be enough for people to start trouble. Russia has already invaded the Ukraine, Putin has always stated that the USSR was something he wanted back. He's amassed troops on the borders of Finland over a period of months and they are very concerned about a possible invasion. You might not think its likely but you probably woukd have thought they wouldnt invade Ukraine either. And as for the effects of Brexit, there could be a massive recession in Britain which would mean job losses, people losing their homes and all the other things that happen when a countries economy goes down. You've really no knowledge of what effects Brexit might have at all. | |||
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"No one as ya tool it's never happened before you don't know the effects or it either u think u can predict the future like the other experts that predicted doom and gloom the day after the vote it never happened it still may but it may not no one knows it's a gamble the UK took I'd be all for a united Ireland wudnt you " Punctuation? Disaster was predicted because Cameron said he'd trigger Article 50 the next day. That would have been chaos because you'd be in this same position but with only 12 months left to finalise the exit deal and up to 30 new trade deals to replace the EUs trade deals. When Article 50 wasnt triggered immediately then there was no immediate chaos. | |||
"No one as ya tool it's never happened before you don't know the effects or it either u think u can predict the future like the other experts that predicted doom and gloom the day after the vote it never happened it still may but it may not no one knows it's a gamble the UK took I'd be all for a united Ireland wudnt you " The number of people killed by terrorist attack in the UK is currently at an all-time low. In the last 15 years less than 100 people have been killed by terrorism in the UK in total. In the 70s there were over 100 people A YEAR being killed by terrorism. Most of it related to Northern Ireland. From '72 - '76 over 200 people a year were killed. In 1972 about 370 people were killed. 352 of them in Northern Ireland. So I think people might rightly be a little wary about stirring things up again! -Matt | |||
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"Its possible brexit could be a catylst for unification in ireland or back to the old days of sectarianism. I think all sides are sick of war so unification seems more likely. "And what happens if NI wants Independence ? Most see NI as a two solution problem, unification or UK, but maybe its a three solution problem?? | |||
"No one as ya tool it's never happened before you don't know the effects or it either u think u can predict the future like the other experts that predicted doom and gloom the day after the vote it never happened it still may but it may not no one knows it's a gamble the UK took I'd be all for a united Ireland wudnt you " Nope. | |||
"Its possible brexit could be a catylst for unification in ireland or back to the old days of sectarianism. I think all sides are sick of war so unification seems more likely.
And what happens if NI wants Independence ?
Most see NI as a two solution problem, unification or UK, but maybe its a three solution problem??"Its a little small wouldnt you say to go it alone.But yes its possible. | |||
"No one as ya tool it's never happened before you don't know the effects or it either u think u can predict the future like the other experts that predicted doom and gloom the day after the vote it never happened it still may but it may not no one knows it's a gamble the UK took I'd be all for a united Ireland wudnt you Nope." i think that the irish people who live there should decide | |||
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"No one as ya tool it's never happened before you don't know the effects or it either u think u can predict the future like the other experts that predicted doom and gloom the day after the vote it never happened it still may but it may not no one knows it's a gamble the UK took I'd be all for a united Ireland wudnt you Nope. i think that the irish people who live there should decide" The problem is that the Irish initially rejected the EU position in 2 referendums, in the first decade of the century, only to change their mind when the Irish Goverment refused to implement the result. | |||
" Your post is so confused. 1. Divorce bill will cover over a decade of yout net contributions and countries like Ireland have and are moving towards being net contributors. We'll have over 10 years to get other countries there. 2. Tarriffs and contributions are two completely different things but you think theyre the same. Theyre not. The 27 remaining member states will go towards filling the loss in trade. And our new deal with Canada will also help fill that gap. We'll also be getting the benefit of companies having to move to the EU as we've already seen with some companies, particularly the financial sector." No not confused at all. Think about it for a moment. If the contributor countries make up the shortfall of trade by exporting to the EU countries who are net beneficiaries they are actually paying for the exports themselves. By this I mean they are paying the remaining19 countries to purchase their goods. The way round that is to have tariff free trade, or at the very least low tariff trade i.e. follow the route the rest of the world is going rather than the route followed in the 1950s. As for the question about the border in Ireland, that is simply politics, there are workable solutions at hand if the political will is there. The UK and Ireland operated a Common Travel Area before both countries joined the E.U. and could operate one in the future if the will was there. At the moment Operation Gull is in place to catch unauthorised migrants from non-EU countries, but it could check migrants from EU countries as well without there being a hard border. Goods could be checked at customs terminals inside both the north & south rather than on the border in much the same way as goods are checked between Norway and Sweden. Regulation of imports and exports could be done electronically with a few spot checks rather than checking every vehicle, nothing is impossible. The Russian problem is a red herring the UK and indeed NATO would still be involved if there was a Russian attack on the EU, to say otherwise is simply fear mongering. The question is not what is possible; but rather, are the various countries politicians going to work together to the benefit of both the E.U. and the U.K. or are they going to try to inflict maximum damage to both the E.U. and the U.K. If they are grown up and sensible both the E.U. and the U.K. stand to benefit and grow from brexit. | |||
" Your post is so confused. 1. Divorce bill will cover over a decade of yout net contributions and countries like Ireland have and are moving towards being net contributors. We'll have over 10 years to get other countries there. 2. Tarriffs and contributions are two completely different things but you think theyre the same. Theyre not. The 27 remaining member states will go towards filling the loss in trade. And our new deal with Canada will also help fill that gap. We'll also be getting the benefit of companies having to move to the EU as we've already seen with some companies, particularly the financial sector. No not confused at all. Think about it for a moment. If the contributor countries make up the shortfall of trade by exporting to the EU countries who are net beneficiaries they are actually paying for the exports themselves. By this I mean they are paying the remaining19 countries to purchase their goods. The way round that is to have tariff free trade, or at the very least low tariff trade i.e. follow the route the rest of the world is going rather than the route followed in the 1950s. As for the question about the border in Ireland, that is simply politics, there are workable solutions at hand if the political will is there. The UK and Ireland operated a Common Travel Area before both countries joined the E.U. and could operate one in the future if the will was there. At the moment Operation Gull is in place to catch unauthorised migrants from non-EU countries, but it could check migrants from EU countries as well without there being a hard border. Goods could be checked at customs terminals inside both the north & south rather than on the border in much the same way as goods are checked between Norway and Sweden. Regulation of imports and exports could be done electronically with a few spot checks rather than checking every vehicle, nothing is impossible. The Russian problem is a red herring the UK and indeed NATO would still be involved if there was a Russian attack on the EU, to say otherwise is simply fear mongering. The question is not what is possible; but rather, are the various countries politicians going to work together to the benefit of both the E.U. and the U.K. or are they going to try to inflict maximum damage to both the E.U. and the U.K. If they are grown up and sensible both the E.U. and the U.K. stand to benefit and grow from brexit. " | |||
" No not confused at all. Think about it for a moment. If the contributor countries make up the shortfall of trade by exporting to the EU countries who are net beneficiaries they are actually paying for the exports themselves. By this I mean they are paying the remaining19 countries to purchase their goods. The way round that is to have tariff free trade, or at the very least low tariff trade i.e. follow the route the rest of the world is going rather than the route followed in the 1950s." Still incredibly confused. So I'll explain why. The contributions are paid to the EU by governments out of their annual budgets. The UK is currently paying a net of £8.6bn and the EU pays £1bn foreign aid that the UK would otherwise have to pay. The divorce bill will cover a decade of your contributions allowing plenty of time for more countries to become net contributers exactly as Ireland has done. So we wont feel the loss of your contributions thanks to the divorce bill. The loss of trade with the UK has little to do with government spending. Trade is Tesco buying wine from France and Italy or chocolate from Belgium. Its JP Morgan selling financial services across Europe. Whether a country is a net contributer to EU funds has literally nothing to do with this. At all. I cant stress enough how seperate these 2 things are. BMW might sell less cars to the UK, but because the UK might also sell less cars to Europe BMW should get more customers who used to buy British. Instead of buying british beef people in the EU might buy Irish or French beef instead. Trade is to do with consumers and business. Contributions are to do with governments. "As for the question about the border in Ireland, that is simply politics, there are workable solutions at hand if the political will is there. The UK and Ireland operated a Common Travel Area before both countries joined the E.U. and could operate one in the future if the will was there. At the moment Operation Gull is in place to catch unauthorised migrants from non-EU countries, but it could check migrants from EU countries as well without there being a hard border. Goods could be checked at customs terminals inside both the north & south rather than on the border in much the same way as goods are checked between Norway and Sweden. Regulation of imports and exports could be done electronically with a few spot checks rather than checking every vehicle, nothing is impossible. The Russian problem is a red herring the UK and indeed NATO would still be involved if there was a Russian attack on the EU, to say otherwise is simply fear mongering." The Northern Ireland problem is fixable, but this is a country thay has major trouble with flags, parades and what to call cities. All these are problems with reasonable solutions but there are a great many unreasonable people involved on both sides. Many of whom would like to see the whole devolvement fail and Northern Ireland ruled direct from London. If one sides interests are failure then its hard to succeed. Russia believes that fragmenting the EU increases their ability to dominate Eastern Europe. The EU believes it and until Trump took over the US believed it. Russia is putting a lot of resources into disinformation and destabilising the west for good reason. What comes next isnt a red herring. If Russia senses weakness, and a divided Europe is weaker, then the worry is they act. " The question is not what is possible; but rather, are the various countries politicians going to work together to the benefit of both the E.U. and the U.K. or are they going to try to inflict maximum damage to both the E.U. and the U.K. If they are grown up and sensible both the E.U. and the U.K. stand to benefit and grow from brexit. " The UK has decided to shun the EU and go it alone. The EU is rightfully going to pursue the agenda thats best for them. The agenda thats best for the EU is the one that ensures the success of the EU by making brexit a failure so that no one else leaves and the UK returns. Make no mistake, that is whats best for the EU and that is what their long term goal is. And they'll achieve that by taking away the benefits of membership so that British people realise that they had it better with the EU than without. Some brexiters paint this as some awful thing that the EU is doing to sabotage the UK but its not. You want to leave, leave, but you leave the benefits behind. No free trade for you. | |||
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"May is not on the debate on itv, that shows of weak leadership." No it shows common sense. Think about it if May had been on it would not have been a debate (as it was there was no debate last night) but simply a rabble heckling her all the time. She would not have been allowed to speak or put forward proposals. It is often a sign of strength to refuse such invitations rather than meekly feel you must accept to avoid criticism | |||
"May is not on the debate on itv, that shows of weak leadership. No it shows common sense. Think about it if May had been on it would not have been a debate (as it was there was no debate last night) but simply a rabble heckling her all the time. She would not have been allowed to speak or put forward proposals. It is often a sign of strength to refuse such invitations rather than meekly feel you must accept to avoid criticism " Corbyn wasnt on the debate either, so it shows his strength too. | |||
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