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Project Fear My Arse
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"Productivity up, manufacturing up, consumer confidence up, exports up, employment up, growth forecasts revised up, the deficit moving down. So yes, project fear. The value of the pound is purely politically driven at the moment and nothing to do with the state of the economy. And expect the pound to rise sharply against the Euro on the 3rd/4th December and against the dollar early next year when the US lowers interest rates. Watch this space" 
Yes it seems that the Italians have finally fixed a date for their referendum.
Should Renzi lose it then the Euro will take a very big hit. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Productivity up, manufacturing up, consumer confidence up, exports up, employment up, growth forecasts revised up, the deficit moving down. So yes, project fear. The value of the pound is purely politically driven at the moment and nothing to do with the state of the economy. And expect the pound to rise sharply against the Euro on the 3rd/4th December and against the dollar early next year when the US lowers interest rates. Watch this space
Yes it seems that the Italians have finally fixed a date for their referendum.
Should Renzi lose it then the Euro will take a very big hit. "this threads gone quiet, wonder why?  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Productivity up, manufacturing up, consumer confidence up, exports up, employment up, growth forecasts revised up, the deficit moving down. So yes, project fear. The value of the pound is purely politically driven at the moment and nothing to do with the state of the economy. And expect the pound to rise sharply against the Euro on the 3rd/4th December and against the dollar early next year when the US lowers interest rates. Watch this space
Yes it seems that the Italians have finally fixed a date for their referendum.
Should Renzi lose it then the Euro will take a very big hit.
this threads gone quiet, wonder why? "The truth is sometimes very inconvenient.  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Productivity up, manufacturing up, consumer confidence up, exports up, employment up, growth forecasts revised up, the deficit moving down. So yes, project fear. The value of the pound is purely politically driven at the moment and nothing to do with the state of the economy. And expect the pound to rise sharply against the Euro on the 3rd/4th December and against the dollar early next year when the US lowers interest rates. Watch this space
Yes it seems that the Italians have finally fixed a date for their referendum.
Should Renzi lose it then the Euro will take a very big hit.
this threads gone quiet, wonder why? "Just like the Over the top Unilever/Tesco/ empty shelves threads seem to have gone quiet now the dispute has been resolved.  | |||
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"Actually we have managed to jump ship just in time. The EU will sink, you heard me, remember because I will say it. I told you so, in advance..." Ah. Now I get it. The remainers must all be in the life jacket business. | |||
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"The things that were dismissed a "project fear" are coming true, so it's more like "project fact" if you ask me. But I'm sure the Beleavers will just keep the faith that its all OK and ignore the truth. " what is coming true? | |||
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"The things that were dismissed a "project fear" are coming true, so it's more like "project fact" if you ask me. But I'm sure the Beleavers will just keep the faith that its all OK and ignore the truth. what is coming true?" Well there was the emergency budget oh no wait Theres the immediate recession oh sorry wrong again I know ive got it theres the crippling rise in un employment what no more people than ever in work And before you talk about the pound up till now the only people suffering are tourists going to usa | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Productivity up, manufacturing up, consumer confidence up, exports up, employment up, growth forecasts revised up, the deficit moving down. So yes, project fear. The value of the pound is purely politically driven at the moment and nothing to do with the state of the economy. And expect the pound to rise sharply against the Euro on the 3rd/4th December and against the dollar early next year when the US lowers interest rates. Watch this space" | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Actually we have managed to jump ship just in time. The EU will sink, you heard me, remember because I will say it. I told you so, in advance..." Sink? The EU will evolve along with will of the people and the Governments who make up that Union. It will be as different in 15 years time as it was 15 years ago constantly striving to make life simpler and better for its citizens. | |||
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"The things that were dismissed a "project fear" are coming true, so it's more like "project fact" if you ask me. But I'm sure the Beleavers will just keep the faith that its all OK and ignore the truth. what is coming true?" Where to begin ffs? Firstly we have not yet even triggered Article 50 let alone left the EU but in anticipation of that the £GBP has crashed and that is a demonstration of the lack of confidence that the world has in the future prospects of the UK. This was predicted and called Project Fear, albeit not to happen even before A50 was triggered. Leavers now say it's all part of the plan anyway because we all need to poorer for the good of the Conservative Government. Also not predicted, but categorically told (and also labelled as Project Fear) was the statements by several EU countries that the UK could not have access to the single market without free movement. The current Foreign Secretary and Leave Leader stated that this was a further demonstration of Project Fear and that the UK would have access and would control EU migration because the EU need us more than we need them. Many EU Leaders have since reiterated the position of ALL remaining 27 states and Donald Tusk himself has today stated that the soft/hard debates going on in England are pointless because it will be either in or out (hard Brexit). Leavers are now saying this is all part of the plan as we don't even need the single market now that the pound is so low as it negates tariffs anyway. Project Fear predictions on the horizon.... 1) Scotland IndyRef2 and the break up of the Union 2) Relocation of major banking institutions due to the certain loss of passporting rights in the event of us Leaving 3) Reduced investment and potential relocation of vehicle manufacturers who used the UK as an EU bridge I can't be arsed writing anymore but just the fall of the pound should be a nought to tell you that the world has no confidence. But Fear not, we have a Prime Minister who is out of her depth, a Foreign Secretary with no diplomatic skills and worst of all two politicians with a cv of failure at the spearhead of Brexit. David Davis and Liam Fox are quite simply incompetent to lead the UK through the biggest constitutional change in all of our lifetimes. This is a clusterfuck of staggering proportions and the whole world aside from Putin, Trump, Farage and the 4 Brexiteets in Govt know it. Oh.... not forgetting the 17,000,000 who didn't even know that the EU is actually 28 nations equally represented and all who have a veto on all decisions - like on the deal that the UK will get. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Productivity up, manufacturing up, consumer confidence up, exports up, employment up, growth forecasts revised up, the deficit moving down. So yes, project fear. The value of the pound is purely politically driven at the moment and nothing to do with the state of the economy. And expect the pound to rise sharply against the Euro on the 3rd/4th December and against the dollar early next year when the US lowers interest rates. Watch this space" As proved by the significant rise in share values .  | |||
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"The things that were dismissed a "project fear" are coming true, so it's more like "project fact" if you ask me. But I'm sure the Beleavers will just keep the faith that its all OK and ignore the truth. what is coming true? Where to begin ffs? Firstly we have not yet even triggered Article 50 let alone left the EU but in anticipation of that the £GBP has crashed and that is a demonstration of the lack of confidence that the world has in the future prospects of the UK. This was predicted and called Project Fear, albeit not to happen even before A50 was triggered. Leavers now say it's all part of the plan anyway because we all need to poorer for the good of the Conservative Government. Also not predicted, but categorically told (and also labelled as Project Fear) was the statements by several EU countries that the UK could not have access to the single market without free movement. The current Foreign Secretary and Leave Leader stated that this was a further demonstration of Project Fear and that the UK would have access and would control EU migration because the EU need us more than we need them. Many EU Leaders have since reiterated the position of ALL remaining 27 states and Donald Tusk himself has today stated that the soft/hard debates going on in England are pointless because it will be either in or out (hard Brexit). Leavers are now saying this is all part of the plan as we don't even need the single market now that the pound is so low as it negates tariffs anyway. Project Fear predictions on the horizon.... 1) Scotland IndyRef2 and the break up of the Union 2) Relocation of major banking institutions due to the certain loss of passporting rights in the event of us Leaving 3) Reduced investment and potential relocation of vehicle manufacturers who used the UK as an EU bridge I can't be arsed writing anymore but just the fall of the pound should be a nought to tell you that the world has no confidence. But Fear not, we have a Prime Minister who is out of her depth, a Foreign Secretary with no diplomatic skills and worst of all two politicians with a cv of failure at the spearhead of Brexit. David Davis and Liam Fox are quite simply incompetent to lead the UK through the biggest constitutional change in all of our lifetimes. This is a clusterfuck of staggering proportions and the whole world aside from Putin, Trump, Farage and the 4 Brexiteets in Govt know it. Oh.... not forgetting the 17,000,000 who didn't even know that the EU is actually 28 nations equally represented and all who have a veto on all decisions - like on the deal that the UK will get." so other than a drop in the pound nothing has ACTUALLY happenned that was predicted has it? Quite the opposite. So what do you think will happen to the Euro/Pound and the EU if Renzi loses his referendum? | |||
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"Actually we have managed to jump ship just in time. The EU will sink, you heard me, remember because I will say it. I told you so, in advance... Sink? The EU will evolve along with will of the people and the Governments who make up that Union. It will be as different in 15 years time as it was 15 years ago constantly striving to make life simpler and better for its citizens. " Oh right, and you really believe that bs do you? But seriously, it's hilarious! The EU will not be there in 15 years time, after the Italian people have spoken, we will see the seems of a worn out wreck of an institution. The house of cards will tumble. | |||
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"The things that were dismissed a "project fear" are coming true, so it's more like "project fact" if you ask me. But I'm sure the Beleavers will just keep the faith that its all OK and ignore the truth. what is coming true? Where to begin ffs? Firstly we have not yet even triggered Article 50 let alone left the EU but in anticipation of that the £GBP has crashed and that is a demonstration of the lack of confidence that the world has in the future prospects of the UK. This was predicted and called Project Fear, albeit not to happen even before A50 was triggered. Leavers now say it's all part of the plan anyway because we all need to poorer for the good of the Conservative Government. Also not predicted, but categorically told (and also labelled as Project Fear) was the statements by several EU countries that the UK could not have access to the single market without free movement. The current Foreign Secretary and Leave Leader stated that this was a further demonstration of Project Fear and that the UK would have access and would control EU migration because the EU need us more than we need them. Many EU Leaders have since reiterated the position of ALL remaining 27 states and Donald Tusk himself has today stated that the soft/hard debates going on in England are pointless because it will be either in or out (hard Brexit). Leavers are now saying this is all part of the plan as we don't even need the single market now that the pound is so low as it negates tariffs anyway. Project Fear predictions on the horizon.... 1) Scotland IndyRef2 and the break up of the Union 2) Relocation of major banking institutions due to the certain loss of passporting rights in the event of us Leaving 3) Reduced investment and potential relocation of vehicle manufacturers who used the UK as an EU bridge I can't be arsed writing anymore but just the fall of the pound should be a nought to tell you that the world has no confidence. But Fear not, we have a Prime Minister who is out of her depth, a Foreign Secretary with no diplomatic skills and worst of all two politicians with a cv of failure at the spearhead of Brexit. David Davis and Liam Fox are quite simply incompetent to lead the UK through the biggest constitutional change in all of our lifetimes. This is a clusterfuck of staggering proportions and the whole world aside from Putin, Trump, Farage and the 4 Brexiteets in Govt know it. Oh.... not forgetting the 17,000,000 who didn't even know that the EU is actually 28 nations equally represented and all who have a veto on all decisions - like on the deal that the UK will get." So you think may is out of her depth you better get use to it weve got her for at least nine years | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The things that were dismissed a "project fear" are coming true, so it's more like "project fact" if you ask me. But I'm sure the Beleavers will just keep the faith that its all OK and ignore the truth. what is coming true? Well there was the emergency budget oh no wait Theres the immediate recession oh sorry wrong again I know ive got it theres the crippling rise in un employment what no more people than ever in work And before you talk about the pound up till now the only people suffering are tourists going to usa " Actually any company that imports goods from countries that trade in the US dollar have been suffering badly for several weeks..... | |||
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"The French Finance Minister has just returned to France from last weeks IMF meetings in Washington and has announced that a number of US banks have now taken the final decision to leave London, irrespective of the outcome of any Brexit negotiations. He said that bank representatives had cited the need for long term certainty over any possible negotiated agreements that the U.K. may, or more likely may not achieve. The departure of a number of banks and other financial services providers was labelled Project Fear in the run up to the Brexit referendum. Whilst there are no solid numbers yet, the banking sector as a whole contributes more than £30 billion per year in taxes to the U.K. economy. " well he would say that wouldn't he? What did ours say? | |||
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"As Brexit is now a reality I would have thought that those smart arses suffering from RRI (Repetitive Remoaning Injury) would have left the country by now! Turkey has been mentioned so as a prospective islamo-fascist EU member some fabsters here would clearly feel right at home amongst the burka-wearers. Failing that, Brussels is just two hours away on Eurostar, so what are you waiting for? " Hardly anyone in Turkey wears a Burka, most don't even wear a headscarf. Turkey is years away from joining, if they do ever actually join. But even once they meet the prerequisites, any member can veto them joining. That included the UK until we voted to leave. What are you actually worried about by the thought of Turkey joining the EU? Why dont you want them to join? With regards to Remainers leaving the UK, I don't see why we should. 38% of the country voted to leave the EU, 62% didn't. Surely the people who don't want to be in the EU should be the ones to leave? | |||
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"As Brexit is now a reality I would have thought that those smart arses suffering from RRI (Repetitive Remoaning Injury) would have left the country by now! Turkey has been mentioned so as a prospective islamo-fascist EU member some fabsters here would clearly feel right at home amongst the burka-wearers. Failing that, Brussels is just two hours away on Eurostar, so what are you waiting for? " There is a rather sad irony to what you say in as much as the people who have the ability to insulate themselves from Brexit induced economic damage will already have done so. The most disenfranchised Leave voters are those "ordinary" working peiople who have no control over what wage they get and will be unable to get more in wages in order to keep up with rising prices. They will also be the ones most at risk of unemployment if the economy tips in to a very bad recession. I do actually feel quite sorry for the most vocal of Leave voters who voted Leave because they were assured by politicians with an alternative agenda that their minimum wage jobs would evolve into better, long term contract jobs in a "free" UK. As always, those at the bottom will be the first to suffer, they will suffer the most and their suffering will go on the longest. | |||
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"As Brexit is now a reality I would have thought that those smart arses suffering from RRI (Repetitive Remoaning Injury) would have left the country by now! Turkey has been mentioned so as a prospective islamo-fascist EU member some fabsters here would clearly feel right at home amongst the burka-wearers. Failing that, Brussels is just two hours away on Eurostar, so what are you waiting for? There is a rather sad irony to what you say in as much as the people who have the ability to insulate themselves from Brexit induced economic damage will already have done so. The most disenfranchised Leave voters are those "ordinary" working peiople who have no control over what wage they get and will be unable to get more in wages in order to keep up with rising prices. They will also be the ones most at risk of unemployment if the economy tips in to a very bad recession. I do actually feel quite sorry for the most vocal of Leave voters who voted Leave because they were assured by politicians with an alternative agenda that their minimum wage jobs would evolve into better, long term contract jobs in a "free" UK. As always, those at the bottom will be the first to suffer, they will suffer the most and their suffering will go on the longest. " Stuart Rose, remember him? The leader of the Britain stronger in Europe campaign, even he said that Brits workers wages would rise in the event that we leave the EU, so I'm afraid everything you just said there just doesn't add up. | |||
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"The French Finance Minister has just returned to France from last weeks IMF meetings in Washington and has announced that a number of US banks have now taken the final decision to leave London, irrespective of the outcome of any Brexit negotiations. He said that bank representatives had cited the need for long term certainty over any possible negotiated agreements that the U.K. may, or more likely may not achieve. The departure of a number of banks and other financial services providers was labelled Project Fear in the run up to the Brexit referendum. Whilst there are no solid numbers yet, the banking sector as a whole contributes more than £30 billion per year in taxes to the U.K. economy. well he would say that wouldn't he? What did ours say?" I'm still waiting to hear what ours said too? | |||
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"As Brexit is now a reality I would have thought that those smart arses suffering from RRI (Repetitive Remoaning Injury) would have left the country by now! Turkey has been mentioned so as a prospective islamo-fascist EU member some fabsters here would clearly feel right at home amongst the burka-wearers. Failing that, Brussels is just two hours away on Eurostar, so what are you waiting for? There is a rather sad irony to what you say in as much as the people who have the ability to insulate themselves from Brexit induced economic damage will already have done so. The most disenfranchised Leave voters are those "ordinary" working peiople who have no control over what wage they get and will be unable to get more in wages in order to keep up with rising prices. They will also be the ones most at risk of unemployment if the economy tips in to a very bad recession. I do actually feel quite sorry for the most vocal of Leave voters who voted Leave because they were assured by politicians with an alternative agenda that their minimum wage jobs would evolve into better, long term contract jobs in a "free" UK. As always, those at the bottom will be the first to suffer, they will suffer the most and their suffering will go on the longest. Stuart Rose, remember him? The leader of the Britain stronger in Europe campaign, even he said that Brits workers wages would rise in the event that we leave the EU, so I'm afraid everything you just said there just doesn't add up. " With rampant inflation? Great! | |||
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"As Brexit is now a reality I would have thought that those smart arses suffering from RRI (Repetitive Remoaning Injury) would have left the country by now! Turkey has been mentioned so as a prospective islamo-fascist EU member some fabsters here would clearly feel right at home amongst the burka-wearers. Failing that, Brussels is just two hours away on Eurostar, so what are you waiting for? There is a rather sad irony to what you say in as much as the people who have the ability to insulate themselves from Brexit induced economic damage will already have done so. The most disenfranchised Leave voters are those "ordinary" working peiople who have no control over what wage they get and will be unable to get more in wages in order to keep up with rising prices. They will also be the ones most at risk of unemployment if the economy tips in to a very bad recession. I do actually feel quite sorry for the most vocal of Leave voters who voted Leave because they were assured by politicians with an alternative agenda that their minimum wage jobs would evolve into better, long term contract jobs in a "free" UK. As always, those at the bottom will be the first to suffer, they will suffer the most and their suffering will go on the longest. Stuart Rose, remember him? The leader of the Britain stronger in Europe campaign, even he said that Brits workers wages would rise in the event that we leave the EU, so I'm afraid everything you just said there just doesn't add up. " Centaur, are you going to provide us a link to the quote, or are we meant to take your word for it? | |||
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"There will be a long period of things re-aligning. Imports will get more expensive, if the pound stays low or tariffs are applied. In my opinion, as always having worked in UK manufacturing, I think long term this is better. Imports more expensive, exports cheaper, will help us re-build UK based production of goods and food. " I keep saying it, but I'll try it again.....the palate of the British public has changed considerably since we joined the EU in the 70's, modern British families enjoy a far more varied diet that includes many products that we don't and cannot grow in the UK viably. You earn your money, you spend it the way you want to, that includes having the choice of the food you eat. It's why modern supermarkets carry a far greater range of fruit and vegetables than they ever did when I was a child. And UK manufacturing has always been heavily dependent on imported raw materials, we are not self sufficient. | |||
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"There will be a long period of things re-aligning. Imports will get more expensive, if the pound stays low or tariffs are applied. In my opinion, as always having worked in UK manufacturing, I think long term this is better. Imports more expensive, exports cheaper, will help us re-build UK based production of goods and food. " Who exactly is going to do this re-aligning? Nissan are one of our biggest exporters and they are asking the UK Govt for guarantees that they wont be exposed to exporting tariffs. In this kind of environment, exactly who is going to rock up and start building cars, motorcycles, ships or other goods? | |||
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"There will be a long period of things re-aligning. Imports will get more expensive, if the pound stays low or tariffs are applied. In my opinion, as always having worked in UK manufacturing, I think long term this is better. Imports more expensive, exports cheaper, will help us re-build UK based production of goods and food. Who exactly is going to do this re-aligning? Nissan are one of our biggest exporters and they are asking the UK Govt for guarantees that they wont be exposed to exporting tariffs. In this kind of environment, exactly who is going to rock up and start building cars, motorcycles, ships or other goods?" I'm predicting that ALL of the foreign owned manufacturing companies in the UK will seek some form of financial reimbursement from the government regarding tariffs on exports to the EU | |||
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"There will be a long period of things re-aligning. Imports will get more expensive, if the pound stays low or tariffs are applied. In my opinion, as always having worked in UK manufacturing, I think long term this is better. Imports more expensive, exports cheaper, will help us re-build UK based production of goods and food. Who exactly is going to do this re-aligning? Nissan are one of our biggest exporters and they are asking the UK Govt for guarantees that they wont be exposed to exporting tariffs. In this kind of environment, exactly who is going to rock up and start building cars, motorcycles, ships or other goods?" Especially if we are then seeking Free Trade Agreements with countries like India and China, they will be the final nail in the coffin of British manufacturing. | |||
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"There will be a long period of things re-aligning. Imports will get more expensive, if the pound stays low or tariffs are applied. In my opinion, as always having worked in UK manufacturing, I think long term this is better. Imports more expensive, exports cheaper, will help us re-build UK based production of goods and food. Who exactly is going to do this re-aligning? Nissan are one of our biggest exporters and they are asking the UK Govt for guarantees that they wont be exposed to exporting tariffs. In this kind of environment, exactly who is going to rock up and start building cars, motorcycles, ships or other goods? Especially if we are then seeking Free Trade Agreements with countries like India and China, they will be the final nail in the coffin of British manufacturing. "
why's that? | |||
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"There will be a long period of things re-aligning. Imports will get more expensive, if the pound stays low or tariffs are applied. In my opinion, as always having worked in UK manufacturing, I think long term this is better. Imports more expensive, exports cheaper, will help us re-build UK based production of goods and food. Who exactly is going to do this re-aligning? Nissan are one of our biggest exporters and they are asking the UK Govt for guarantees that they wont be exposed to exporting tariffs. In this kind of environment, exactly who is going to rock up and start building cars, motorcycles, ships or other goods? I'm predicting that ALL of the foreign owned manufacturing companies in the UK will seek some form of financial reimbursement from the government regarding tariffs on exports to the EU" and will all foreign owned manufacturing companies in the EU and EU owned companies in the EU seek some form of reimbursement from their governments regarding tariffs on exports to the UK do you think? | |||
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"There will be a long period of things re-aligning. Imports will get more expensive, if the pound stays low or tariffs are applied. In my opinion, as always having worked in UK manufacturing, I think long term this is better. Imports more expensive, exports cheaper, will help us re-build UK based production of goods and food. Who exactly is going to do this re-aligning? Nissan are one of our biggest exporters and they are asking the UK Govt for guarantees that they wont be exposed to exporting tariffs. In this kind of environment, exactly who is going to rock up and start building cars, motorcycles, ships or other goods? Especially if we are then seeking Free Trade Agreements with countries like India and China, they will be the final nail in the coffin of British manufacturing.
why's that?"Look at America https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2016-01-26/free-trade-with-china-wasn-t-such-a-great-idea | |||
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"Productivity up, manufacturing up, consumer confidence up, exports up, employment up, growth forecasts revised up, the deficit moving down. So yes, project fear. The value of the pound is purely politically driven at the moment and nothing to do with the state of the economy. And expect the pound to rise sharply against the Euro on the 3rd/4th December and against the dollar early next year when the US lowers interest rates. Watch this space" Yes, value of the pound is driven by faulty forecasting and a confidence trick by those looking to make a fast buck from the uncertainty. My personal view, is this unsettlement was expected, and will start to settle as views become clear. Other economic indicators seem more positive, increase in business from outside UK, Favourable results for international trading, most companies experiencing growth, FTSE100/250 doing exceedingly well, large employers seeing little to no effect of currency fluctuations etc. Further, many of the challenges we're facing fiscally at the moment are still a direct result of the failure of the banks to release credit and their recovery measures after the banking crisis. It is convenient for commentators to suggest that 'brexit' is the reason for all ills, but though no one is saying it is insignificant, the banking crisis is still the most significant event to have happened to our economy in the last decade. | |||
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"Productivity up, manufacturing up, consumer confidence up, exports up, employment up, growth forecasts revised up, the deficit moving down. So yes, project fear. The value of the pound is purely politically driven at the moment and nothing to do with the state of the economy. And expect the pound to rise sharply against the Euro on the 3rd/4th December and against the dollar early next year when the US lowers interest rates. Watch this space Yes, value of the pound is driven by faulty forecasting and a confidence trick by those looking to make a fast buck from the uncertainty. My personal view, is this unsettlement was expected, and will start to settle as views become clear. Other economic indicators seem more positive, increase in business from outside UK, Favourable results for international trading, most companies experiencing growth, FTSE100/250 doing exceedingly well, large employers seeing little to no effect of currency fluctuations etc. Further, many of the challenges we're facing fiscally at the moment are still a direct result of the failure of the banks to release credit and their recovery measures after the banking crisis. It is convenient for commentators to suggest that 'brexit' is the reason for all ills, but though no one is saying it is insignificant, the banking crisis is still the most significant event to have happened to our economy in the last decade." CLCC will try to prove you wrong and ask for links so get ready. | |||
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"There will be a long period of things re-aligning. Imports will get more expensive, if the pound stays low or tariffs are applied. In my opinion, as always having worked in UK manufacturing, I think long term this is better. Imports more expensive, exports cheaper, will help us re-build UK based production of goods and food. Who exactly is going to do this re-aligning? Nissan are one of our biggest exporters and they are asking the UK Govt for guarantees that they wont be exposed to exporting tariffs. In this kind of environment, exactly who is going to rock up and start building cars, motorcycles, ships or other goods? I'm predicting that ALL of the foreign owned manufacturing companies in the UK will seek some form of financial reimbursement from the government regarding tariffs on exports to the EU and will all foreign owned manufacturing companies in the EU and EU owned companies in the EU seek some form of reimbursement from their governments regarding tariffs on exports to the UK do you think?" That's a very good point, but do you have any instances of Chinese or Japanese companies who manufacture goods within the EU that export to Britiain? | |||
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"There will be a long period of things re-aligning. Imports will get more expensive, if the pound stays low or tariffs are applied. In my opinion, as always having worked in UK manufacturing, I think long term this is better. Imports more expensive, exports cheaper, will help us re-build UK based production of goods and food. Who exactly is going to do this re-aligning? Nissan are one of our biggest exporters and they are asking the UK Govt for guarantees that they wont be exposed to exporting tariffs. In this kind of environment, exactly who is going to rock up and start building cars, motorcycles, ships or other goods? I'm predicting that ALL of the foreign owned manufacturing companies in the UK will seek some form of financial reimbursement from the government regarding tariffs on exports to the EU and will all foreign owned manufacturing companies in the EU and EU owned companies in the EU seek some form of reimbursement from their governments regarding tariffs on exports to the UK do you think? That's a very good point, but do you have any instances of Chinese or Japanese companies who manufacture goods within the EU that export to Britiain?" without looking no but what difference does it make where they come from? | |||
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"There will be a long period of things re-aligning. Imports will get more expensive, if the pound stays low or tariffs are applied. In my opinion, as always having worked in UK manufacturing, I think long term this is better. Imports more expensive, exports cheaper, will help us re-build UK based production of goods and food. Who exactly is going to do this re-aligning? Nissan are one of our biggest exporters and they are asking the UK Govt for guarantees that they wont be exposed to exporting tariffs. In this kind of environment, exactly who is going to rock up and start building cars, motorcycles, ships or other goods? I'm predicting that ALL of the foreign owned manufacturing companies in the UK will seek some form of financial reimbursement from the government regarding tariffs on exports to the EU and will all foreign owned manufacturing companies in the EU and EU owned companies in the EU seek some form of reimbursement from their governments regarding tariffs on exports to the UK do you think? That's a very good point, but do you have any instances of Chinese or Japanese companies who manufacture goods within the EU that export to Britiain? without looking no but what difference does it make where they come from?" It matters because we are talking about foreign businesses who have chosen Britain as a manufacturing base almost solely to export within the EU, they did so because of two factors....Major UK government start up grants for factories to be built and set up in the 80's and 90's, and secondly because the EU itself offered financial incentives in areas of Britain that had in previous years seen devestating manufacturing closures. I'm interested to see what non EU companies manufacture goods within the rest of the EU that export to Britain..... | |||
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"There will be a long period of things re-aligning. Imports will get more expensive, if the pound stays low or tariffs are applied. In my opinion, as always having worked in UK manufacturing, I think long term this is better. Imports more expensive, exports cheaper, will help us re-build UK based production of goods and food. Who exactly is going to do this re-aligning? Nissan are one of our biggest exporters and they are asking the UK Govt for guarantees that they wont be exposed to exporting tariffs. In this kind of environment, exactly who is going to rock up and start building cars, motorcycles, ships or other goods? I'm predicting that ALL of the foreign owned manufacturing companies in the UK will seek some form of financial reimbursement from the government regarding tariffs on exports to the EU and will all foreign owned manufacturing companies in the EU and EU owned companies in the EU seek some form of reimbursement from their governments regarding tariffs on exports to the UK do you think? That's a very good point, but do you have any instances of Chinese or Japanese companies who manufacture goods within the EU that export to Britiain? without looking no but what difference does it make where they come from? It matters because we are talking about foreign businesses who have chosen Britain as a manufacturing base almost solely to export within the EU, they did so because of two factors....Major UK government start up grants for factories to be built and set up in the 80's and 90's, and secondly because the EU itself offered financial incentives in areas of Britain that had in previous years seen devestating manufacturing closures. I'm interested to see what non EU companies manufacture goods within the rest of the EU that export to Britain....." There is a few, but for most of those the out put for the UK market is marginal compared to the output sold in mainland Europe. | |||
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" Nissan are one of our biggest exporters and they are asking the UK Govt for guarantees that they wont be exposed to exporting tariffs. In this kind of environment, exactly who is going to rock up and start building cars, motorcycles, ships or other goods?" Even IF we went onto tariffs. The tariff on cars is 10%. Sterling has faleen by more then 10%, so a UK manufactured vehicle sold in the EU qould be cheaper than previously . The tariff situation should be avoided. But as a worst case scenaro I struggle to see the issue. By the way, I make significant exports to the EU. | |||
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"The point is that the likes of Nissan UK have cost the UK a small fortune over the years, just another example of government subsidising jobs for certain areas of the country at the expense of other areas, and now more subsidies look entirely possible in the form of tariff reimbursements. It's all one big game of monopoly..... " What subsidies was there for shipbuilding, mining, steelmaking other car makers?? Regardless of any brexit debate, the point is just wrong. Has Nissan been a net negative to the uk? | |||
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"There will be a long period of things re-aligning. Imports will get more expensive, if the pound stays low or tariffs are applied. In my opinion, as always having worked in UK manufacturing, I think long term this is better. Imports more expensive, exports cheaper, will help us re-build UK based production of goods and food. Who exactly is going to do this re-aligning? Nissan are one of our biggest exporters and they are asking the UK Govt for guarantees that they wont be exposed to exporting tariffs. In this kind of environment, exactly who is going to rock up and start building cars, motorcycles, ships or other goods? I'm predicting that ALL of the foreign owned manufacturing companies in the UK will seek some form of financial reimbursement from the government regarding tariffs on exports to the EU and will all foreign owned manufacturing companies in the EU and EU owned companies in the EU seek some form of reimbursement from their governments regarding tariffs on exports to the UK do you think? That's a very good point, but do you have any instances of Chinese or Japanese companies who manufacture goods within the EU that export to Britiain? without looking no but what difference does it make where they come from? It matters because we are talking about foreign businesses who have chosen Britain as a manufacturing base almost solely to export within the EU, they did so because of two factors....Major UK government start up grants for factories to be built and set up in the 80's and 90's, and secondly because the EU itself offered financial incentives in areas of Britain that had in previous years seen devestating manufacturing closures. I'm interested to see what non EU companies manufacture goods within the rest of the EU that export to Britain..... There is a few, but for most of those the out put for the UK market is marginal compared to the output sold in mainland Europe. " Other than the Renault-Nissan Alliance you mean? | |||
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" Nissan are one of our biggest exporters and they are asking the UK Govt for guarantees that they wont be exposed to exporting tariffs. In this kind of environment, exactly who is going to rock up and start building cars, motorcycles, ships or other goods? Even IF we went onto tariffs. The tariff on cars is 10%. Sterling has faleen by more then 10%, so a UK manufactured vehicle sold in the EU qould be cheaper than previously . The tariff situation should be avoided. But as a worst case scenaro I struggle to see the issue. By the way, I make significant exports to the EU." You say that like we might have tariffs, we might not. You know they are a certainly between us leaving the EU, and a new trade deal being signed several years later, right? | |||
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"There will be a long period of things re-aligning. Imports will get more expensive, if the pound stays low or tariffs are applied. In my opinion, as always having worked in UK manufacturing, I think long term this is better. Imports more expensive, exports cheaper, will help us re-build UK based production of goods and food. Who exactly is going to do this re-aligning? Nissan are one of our biggest exporters and they are asking the UK Govt for guarantees that they wont be exposed to exporting tariffs. In this kind of environment, exactly who is going to rock up and start building cars, motorcycles, ships or other goods? I'm predicting that ALL of the foreign owned manufacturing companies in the UK will seek some form of financial reimbursement from the government regarding tariffs on exports to the EU and will all foreign owned manufacturing companies in the EU and EU owned companies in the EU seek some form of reimbursement from their governments regarding tariffs on exports to the UK do you think? That's a very good point, but do you have any instances of Chinese or Japanese companies who manufacture goods within the EU that export to Britiain? without looking no but what difference does it make where they come from? It matters because we are talking about foreign businesses who have chosen Britain as a manufacturing base almost solely to export within the EU, they did so because of two factors....Major UK government start up grants for factories to be built and set up in the 80's and 90's, and secondly because the EU itself offered financial incentives in areas of Britain that had in previous years seen devestating manufacturing closures. I'm interested to see what non EU companies manufacture goods within the rest of the EU that export to Britain....." I can't be arsed to look but ok will Audi, BMW, VW, Mercedes, Seat, Fiat, Citroen, Renault etc be looking for Reimbursement from the EU to export to the UK do you think? | |||
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" Nissan are one of our biggest exporters and they are asking the UK Govt for guarantees that they wont be exposed to exporting tariffs. In this kind of environment, exactly who is going to rock up and start building cars, motorcycles, ships or other goods? Even IF we went onto tariffs. The tariff on cars is 10%. Sterling has faleen by more then 10%, so a UK manufactured vehicle sold in the EU qould be cheaper than previously . The tariff situation should be avoided. But as a worst case scenaro I struggle to see the issue. By the way, I make significant exports to the EU. You say that like we might have tariffs, we might not. You know they are a certainly between us leaving the EU, and a new trade deal being signed several years later, right? " no they are not | |||
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"As Brexit is now a reality I would have thought that those smart arses suffering from RRI (Repetitive Remoaning Injury) would have left the country by now! Turkey has been mentioned so as a prospective islamo-fascist EU member some fabsters here would clearly feel right at home amongst the burka-wearers. Failing that, Brussels is just two hours away on Eurostar, so what are you waiting for? There is a rather sad irony to what you say in as much as the people who have the ability to insulate themselves from Brexit induced economic damage will already have done so. The most disenfranchised Leave voters are those "ordinary" working peiople who have no control over what wage they get and will be unable to get more in wages in order to keep up with rising prices. They will also be the ones most at risk of unemployment if the economy tips in to a very bad recession. I do actually feel quite sorry for the most vocal of Leave voters who voted Leave because they were assured by politicians with an alternative agenda that their minimum wage jobs would evolve into better, long term contract jobs in a "free" UK. As always, those at the bottom will be the first to suffer, they will suffer the most and their suffering will go on the longest. Stuart Rose, remember him? The leader of the Britain stronger in Europe campaign, even he said that Brits workers wages would rise in the event that we leave the EU, so I'm afraid everything you just said there just doesn't add up. Centaur, are you going to provide us a link to the quote, or are we meant to take your word for it? " Find it yourself it's really not that difficult to use Google. If you can use the Internet to find out what Mervyn King has been upto I'm sure you can use the Internet to find out what Stuart Rose said during the referendum campaign. | |||
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" You say that like we might have tariffs, we might not. You know they are a certainly between us leaving the EU, and a new trade deal being signed several years later, right? " This is getting very convoluted. All I know is this - goods exported from the UK are now cheaper to the customer in the EU and USA then prior to the referendum. That is good news for uk based manufacturers. Simple economic fact today. | |||
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"As a Marks and Spencer shareholder I can assure you that Stuart Rose fought just about every shop floor wage rise within the company while he was in charge, apart from his own wage rises of course. He's certainly never been an advocate of improving working rights at M&S, so I take his comments about people wages rising out of the EU as poppycock!" So you are saying that the leader of the Britain stronger in Europe referendum campaign speaks poppycock, that's interesting. | |||
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"There will be a long period of things re-aligning. Imports will get more expensive, if the pound stays low or tariffs are applied. In my opinion, as always having worked in UK manufacturing, I think long term this is better. Imports more expensive, exports cheaper, will help us re-build UK based production of goods and food. Who exactly is going to do this re-aligning? Nissan are one of our biggest exporters and they are asking the UK Govt for guarantees that they wont be exposed to exporting tariffs. In this kind of environment, exactly who is going to rock up and start building cars, motorcycles, ships or other goods?" If we stay in the single market maybe the government should ask Nissan to pay the EU contribution fee, instead of British taxpayers. | |||
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"As Brexit is now a reality I would have thought that those smart arses suffering from RRI (Repetitive Remoaning Injury) would have left the country by now! Turkey has been mentioned so as a prospective islamo-fascist EU member some fabsters here would clearly feel right at home amongst the burka-wearers. Failing that, Brussels is just two hours away on Eurostar, so what are you waiting for? There is a rather sad irony to what you say in as much as the people who have the ability to insulate themselves from Brexit induced economic damage will already have done so. The most disenfranchised Leave voters are those "ordinary" working peiople who have no control over what wage they get and will be unable to get more in wages in order to keep up with rising prices. They will also be the ones most at risk of unemployment if the economy tips in to a very bad recession. I do actually feel quite sorry for the most vocal of Leave voters who voted Leave because they were assured by politicians with an alternative agenda that their minimum wage jobs would evolve into better, long term contract jobs in a "free" UK. As always, those at the bottom will be the first to suffer, they will suffer the most and their suffering will go on the longest. Stuart Rose, remember him? The leader of the Britain stronger in Europe campaign, even he said that Brits workers wages would rise in the event that we leave the EU, so I'm afraid everything you just said there just doesn't add up. Centaur, are you going to provide us a link to the quote, or are we meant to take your word for it? Find it yourself it's really not that difficult to use Google. If you can use the Internet to find out what Mervyn King has been upto I'm sure you can use the Internet to find out what Stuart Rose said during the referendum campaign. " You make these statements, but you can never ever back them up! You are so full of rubbish. Like your stuff about "humiliating climb downs" I looked it and and proved you were nothing but a liar. I guess you really did learn a lot from the Leave campaign, it doesn't matter if its true or not (cough £350 for the NHS cough), as long as Beleave its true. | |||
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"The things that were dismissed a "project fear" are coming true, so it's more like "project fact" if you ask me. But I'm sure the Beleavers will just keep the faith that its all OK and ignore the truth. what is coming true? Well there was the emergency budget oh no wait Theres the immediate recession oh sorry wrong again I know ive got it theres the crippling rise in un employment what no more people than ever in work And before you talk about the pound up till now the only people suffering are tourists going to usa " Don't forget the 20% drop in house prices. And whatever you do, don't mention the war... And as for the cost of marmite going up... Two facts to digest.... marmite had gone up by 30% in the 3 years before Brexit, and all of the ingredients in marmite come from within the UK. | |||
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"There will be a long period of things re-aligning. Imports will get more expensive, if the pound stays low or tariffs are applied. In my opinion, as always having worked in UK manufacturing, I think long term this is better. Imports more expensive, exports cheaper, will help us re-build UK based production of goods and food. Who exactly is going to do this re-aligning? Nissan are one of our biggest exporters and they are asking the UK Govt for guarantees that they wont be exposed to exporting tariffs. In this kind of environment, exactly who is going to rock up and start building cars, motorcycles, ships or other goods? I'm predicting that ALL of the foreign owned manufacturing companies in the UK will seek some form of financial reimbursement from the government regarding tariffs on exports to the EU and will all foreign owned manufacturing companies in the EU and EU owned companies in the EU seek some form of reimbursement from their governments regarding tariffs on exports to the UK do you think? That's a very good point, but do you have any instances of Chinese or Japanese companies who manufacture goods within the EU that export to Britiain? without looking no but what difference does it make where they come from? It matters because we are talking about foreign businesses who have chosen Britain as a manufacturing base almost solely to export within the EU, they did so because of two factors....Major UK government start up grants for factories to be built and set up in the 80's and 90's, and secondly because the EU itself offered financial incentives in areas of Britain that had in previous years seen devestating manufacturing closures. I'm interested to see what non EU companies manufacture goods within the rest of the EU that export to Britain..... I can't be arsed to look but ok will Audi, BMW, VW, Mercedes, Seat, Fiat, Citroen, Renault etc be looking for Reimbursement from the EU to export to the UK do you think?" Again, you are either missing the point or are deliberately skating over the point.....NON-EU companies like Honda, Nissan etc. Nissan UK have already stated that they will be looking to the UK government to correct (FUND) export tariffs into the EU.....that's a fact | |||
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"There will be a long period of things re-aligning. Imports will get more expensive, if the pound stays low or tariffs are applied. In my opinion, as always having worked in UK manufacturing, I think long term this is better. Imports more expensive, exports cheaper, will help us re-build UK based production of goods and food. Who exactly is going to do this re-aligning? Nissan are one of our biggest exporters and they are asking the UK Govt for guarantees that they wont be exposed to exporting tariffs. In this kind of environment, exactly who is going to rock up and start building cars, motorcycles, ships or other goods? I'm predicting that ALL of the foreign owned manufacturing companies in the UK will seek some form of financial reimbursement from the government regarding tariffs on exports to the EU and will all foreign owned manufacturing companies in the EU and EU owned companies in the EU seek some form of reimbursement from their governments regarding tariffs on exports to the UK do you think? That's a very good point, but do you have any instances of Chinese or Japanese companies who manufacture goods within the EU that export to Britiain? without looking no but what difference does it make where they come from? It matters because we are talking about foreign businesses who have chosen Britain as a manufacturing base almost solely to export within the EU, they did so because of two factors....Major UK government start up grants for factories to be built and set up in the 80's and 90's, and secondly because the EU itself offered financial incentives in areas of Britain that had in previous years seen devestating manufacturing closures. I'm interested to see what non EU companies manufacture goods within the rest of the EU that export to Britain..... I can't be arsed to look but ok will Audi, BMW, VW, Mercedes, Seat, Fiat, Citroen, Renault etc be looking for Reimbursement from the EU to export to the UK do you think? Again, you are either missing the point or are deliberately skating over the point.....NON-EU companies like Honda, Nissan etc. Nissan UK have already stated that they will be looking to the UK government to correct (FUND) export tariffs into the EU.....that's a fact" I am not skirting the issue at all, you are. If Nissan UK got funding to correct tariffs to export to the EU, do you not think that EU car manufacturers would seek the same funding from the EU to export to the UK? Do you not think they would want a level playing field? Do you know how many cars were imported into the UK from the EU last year? This is all a bit of a pointless arguement though because there will not be any tariffs | |||
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" I am not skirting the issue at all, you are. If Nissan UK got funding to correct tariffs to export to the EU, do you not think that EU car manufacturers would seek the same funding from the EU to export to the UK? Do you not think they would want a level playing field? Do you know how many cars were imported into the UK from the EU last year? This is all a bit of a pointless arguement though because there will not be any tariffs" The UK Govt is unilaterally taking an action that will change the fiscal trading circumstances here in the UK. This is why Nissan is asking for reimbursement. The EU to a degree are "victims" of the UK decision so why on earth would anyone seek reimbursement from the EU for an action that the UK is unilaterally taking? | |||
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" I am not skirting the issue at all, you are. If Nissan UK got funding to correct tariffs to export to the EU, do you not think that EU car manufacturers would seek the same funding from the EU to export to the UK? Do you not think they would want a level playing field? Do you know how many cars were imported into the UK from the EU last year? This is all a bit of a pointless arguement though because there will not be any tariffs The UK Govt is unilaterally taking an action that will change the fiscal trading circumstances here in the UK. This is why Nissan is asking for reimbursement. The EU to a degree are "victims" of the UK decision so why on earth would anyone seek reimbursement from the EU for an action that the UK is unilaterally taking?" because the UK want free trade and it is the EU talking of imposing tariffs. Or the people who wanted to remain are anyway. It is the politcians who want tariffs not EU businesses | |||
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"As Brexit is now a reality I would have thought that those smart arses suffering from RRI (Repetitive Remoaning Injury) would have left the country by now! Turkey has been mentioned so as a prospective islamo-fascist EU member some fabsters here would clearly feel right at home amongst the burka-wearers. Failing that, Brussels is just two hours away on Eurostar, so what are you waiting for? There is a rather sad irony to what you say in as much as the people who have the ability to insulate themselves from Brexit induced economic damage will already have done so. The most disenfranchised Leave voters are those "ordinary" working peiople who have no control over what wage they get and will be unable to get more in wages in order to keep up with rising prices. They will also be the ones most at risk of unemployment if the economy tips in to a very bad recession. I do actually feel quite sorry for the most vocal of Leave voters who voted Leave because they were assured by politicians with an alternative agenda that their minimum wage jobs would evolve into better, long term contract jobs in a "free" UK. As always, those at the bottom will be the first to suffer, they will suffer the most and their suffering will go on the longest. Stuart Rose, remember him? The leader of the Britain stronger in Europe campaign, even he said that Brits workers wages would rise in the event that we leave the EU, so I'm afraid everything you just said there just doesn't add up. Centaur, are you going to provide us a link to the quote, or are we meant to take your word for it? Find it yourself it's really not that difficult to use Google. If you can use the Internet to find out what Mervyn King has been upto I'm sure you can use the Internet to find out what Stuart Rose said during the referendum campaign. You make these statements, but you can never ever back them up! You are so full of rubbish. Like your stuff about "humiliating climb downs" I looked it and and proved you were nothing but a liar. I guess you really did learn a lot from the Leave campaign, it doesn't matter if its true or not (cough £350 for the NHS cough), as long as Beleave its true. " Maybe you were'nt around on here during the referendum campaign but i think you'll find i can always back up what i say on here, as i posted dozens of links to back up what i said during the weeks and months of the referendum. Feel free to scroll through the archives of Fab forum for referendum threads if you like. It beggars belief that you can't find any links to Stuart Rose or the IMF climbdown on an internet search engine. Do you need someone to hold your hand to do everything? It took me a matter of seconds to find these links...... www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/12181385/Wages-for-British-workers-will-rise-in-the-event-of-a-Brexit-head-of-in-campaign-says.html That is the Stuart Rose one, there were also dozens of other links i could have chosen from numerous newspapers on the subject. Now the following is about the IMF climbdown in the first week of October 2016... www.theguardian.com/business/2016/oct/04/britain-fastest-growing-g7-economy-imf-international-monetary-fund-brexit-vote Now considering the experts (snigger) at the IMF made forecasts and predictions about an immediate recession and immediate economic catastrophe for the UK should we vote Leave, it is a humiliating climbdown for them to have to admit in the first week of October 2016 that Britain will be the fastest growing economy in the G7 this year. Maybe you should learn a lesson from this, don't call me a liar and don't call me out to provide links again because i can assure you i can provide them every single time and i can always back up what i say on here. | |||
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"Think about this. A Nissan Qashqai at £18k uk price. Prior to referendum exchange rate = 1.31 = €23.5k Today exchange rate = 1.10 = €19.8k IF there was a 10% tariff on top = €21.8k So even IF there were tariffs imposed, the car would be cheaper to a EU customer than prior to the referendum/brexit. Where's the problem for Nissan or anybody working for them? Also IF tariffs came in, the government would be receiving an additional 10% in import duty on any car coming into the country. " Please be serious. Tariffs are fixed costs exchange rates are variable. Nissan will hold significant reserves of both currencies. All exporters will need long term clarity of their fixed costs. | |||
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"Think about this. A Nissan Qashqai at £18k uk price. Prior to referendum exchange rate = 1.31 = €23.5k Today exchange rate = 1.10 = €19.8k IF there was a 10% tariff on top = €21.8k So even IF there were tariffs imposed, the car would be cheaper to a EU customer than prior to the referendum/brexit. Where's the problem for Nissan or anybody working for them? Also IF tariffs came in, the government would be receiving an additional 10% in import duty on any car coming into the country. " As Nigel Farage said in the European Parliament, "even a new deal with tariffs will be better than the current rotten deal we have now".
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"Think about this. A Nissan Qashqai at £18k uk price. Prior to referendum exchange rate = 1.31 = €23.5k Today exchange rate = 1.10 = €19.8k IF there was a 10% tariff on top = €21.8k So even IF there were tariffs imposed, the car would be cheaper to a EU customer than prior to the referendum/brexit. Where's the problem for Nissan or anybody working for them? Also IF tariffs came in, the government would be receiving an additional 10% in import duty on any car coming into the country. Please be serious. Tariffs are fixed costs exchange rates are variable. Nissan will hold significant reserves of both currencies. All exporters will need long term clarity of their fixed costs." I am being serious. I have worked in automotive manufacturing for 10 years thanks, I know a little bit about it. Tariffs are a %. The point made by doom and gloom merchants is that of a continual slide in Sterling. All I'm saying is the fall in Sterling benefits exporters. Tariffs are not wanted by anyone in business or the populace of the eu or uk. They will only be attempted by the eu hierarchy to dissuade others from exiting. | |||
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"As Brexit is now a reality I would have thought that those smart arses suffering from RRI (Repetitive Remoaning Injury) would have left the country by now! Turkey has been mentioned so as a prospective islamo-fascist EU member some fabsters here would clearly feel right at home amongst the burka-wearers. Failing that, Brussels is just two hours away on Eurostar, so what are you waiting for? There is a rather sad irony to what you say in as much as the people who have the ability to insulate themselves from Brexit induced economic damage will already have done so. The most disenfranchised Leave voters are those "ordinary" working peiople who have no control over what wage they get and will be unable to get more in wages in order to keep up with rising prices. They will also be the ones most at risk of unemployment if the economy tips in to a very bad recession. I do actually feel quite sorry for the most vocal of Leave voters who voted Leave because they were assured by politicians with an alternative agenda that their minimum wage jobs would evolve into better, long term contract jobs in a "free" UK. As always, those at the bottom will be the first to suffer, they will suffer the most and their suffering will go on the longest. Stuart Rose, remember him? The leader of the Britain stronger in Europe campaign, even he said that Brits workers wages would rise in the event that we leave the EU, so I'm afraid everything you just said there just doesn't add up. Centaur, are you going to provide us a link to the quote, or are we meant to take your word for it? Find it yourself it's really not that difficult to use Google. If you can use the Internet to find out what Mervyn King has been upto I'm sure you can use the Internet to find out what Stuart Rose said during the referendum campaign. You make these statements, but you can never ever back them up! You are so full of rubbish. Like your stuff about "humiliating climb downs" I looked it and and proved you were nothing but a liar. I guess you really did learn a lot from the Leave campaign, it doesn't matter if its true or not (cough £350 for the NHS cough), as long as Beleave its true. Maybe you were'nt around on here during the referendum campaign but i think you'll find i can always back up what i say on here, as i posted dozens of links to back up what i said during the weeks and months of the referendum. Feel free to scroll through the archives of Fab forum for referendum threads if you like. It beggars belief that you can't find any links to Stuart Rose or the IMF climbdown on an internet search engine. Do you need someone to hold your hand to do everything? It took me a matter of seconds to find these links...... www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/12181385/Wages-for-British-workers-will-rise-in-the-event-of-a-Brexit-head-of-in-campaign-says.html That is the Stuart Rose one, there were also dozens of other links i could have chosen from numerous newspapers on the subject. Now the following is about the IMF climbdown in the first week of October 2016... www.theguardian.com/business/2016/oct/04/britain-fastest-growing-g7-economy-imf-international-monetary-fund-brexit-vote Now considering the experts (snigger) at the IMF made forecasts and predictions about an immediate recession and immediate economic catastrophe for the UK should we vote Leave, it is a humiliating climbdown for them to have to admit in the first week of October 2016 that Britain will be the fastest growing economy in the G7 this year. Maybe you should learn a lesson from this, don't call me a liar and don't call me out to provide links again because i can assure you i can provide them every single time and i can always back up what i say on here. " Well done, you actually could provide a link to support at least one of your arguments. There is still nothing to see above your lies regarding a humiliating climb down is there? As it says in the link, "it stuck to its view that the economy would eventually suffer from the shock EU referendum result and said expansion next year would be just 1.1% – lower than it expected in the immediate aftermath of the Brexit vote.” So after the referendum, they revised their growth estimate DOWNWARDS, that means they think the economy is getting WORSE as a result of the result! | |||
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"As Brexit is now a reality I would have thought that those smart arses suffering from RRI (Repetitive Remoaning Injury) would have left the country by now! Turkey has been mentioned so as a prospective islamo-fascist EU member some fabsters here would clearly feel right at home amongst the burka-wearers. Failing that, Brussels is just two hours away on Eurostar, so what are you waiting for? There is a rather sad irony to what you say in as much as the people who have the ability to insulate themselves from Brexit induced economic damage will already have done so. The most disenfranchised Leave voters are those "ordinary" working peiople who have no control over what wage they get and will be unable to get more in wages in order to keep up with rising prices. They will also be the ones most at risk of unemployment if the economy tips in to a very bad recession. I do actually feel quite sorry for the most vocal of Leave voters who voted Leave because they were assured by politicians with an alternative agenda that their minimum wage jobs would evolve into better, long term contract jobs in a "free" UK. As always, those at the bottom will be the first to suffer, they will suffer the most and their suffering will go on the longest. Stuart Rose, remember him? The leader of the Britain stronger in Europe campaign, even he said that Brits workers wages would rise in the event that we leave the EU, so I'm afraid everything you just said there just doesn't add up. Centaur, are you going to provide us a link to the quote, or are we meant to take your word for it? Find it yourself it's really not that difficult to use Google. If you can use the Internet to find out what Mervyn King has been upto I'm sure you can use the Internet to find out what Stuart Rose said during the referendum campaign. You make these statements, but you can never ever back them up! You are so full of rubbish. Like your stuff about "humiliating climb downs" I looked it and and proved you were nothing but a liar. I guess you really did learn a lot from the Leave campaign, it doesn't matter if its true or not (cough £350 for the NHS cough), as long as Beleave its true. Maybe you were'nt around on here during the referendum campaign but i think you'll find i can always back up what i say on here, as i posted dozens of links to back up what i said during the weeks and months of the referendum. Feel free to scroll through the archives of Fab forum for referendum threads if you like. It beggars belief that you can't find any links to Stuart Rose or the IMF climbdown on an internet search engine. Do you need someone to hold your hand to do everything? It took me a matter of seconds to find these links...... www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/12181385/Wages-for-British-workers-will-rise-in-the-event-of-a-Brexit-head-of-in-campaign-says.html That is the Stuart Rose one, there were also dozens of other links i could have chosen from numerous newspapers on the subject. Now the following is about the IMF climbdown in the first week of October 2016... www.theguardian.com/business/2016/oct/04/britain-fastest-growing-g7-economy-imf-international-monetary-fund-brexit-vote Now considering the experts (snigger) at the IMF made forecasts and predictions about an immediate recession and immediate economic catastrophe for the UK should we vote Leave, it is a humiliating climbdown for them to have to admit in the first week of October 2016 that Britain will be the fastest growing economy in the G7 this year. Maybe you should learn a lesson from this, don't call me a liar and don't call me out to provide links again because i can assure you i can provide them every single time and i can always back up what i say on here. Well done, you actually could provide a link to support at least one of your arguments. There is still nothing to see above your lies regarding a humiliating climb down is there? As it says in the link, "it stuck to its view that the economy would eventually suffer from the shock EU referendum result and said expansion next year would be just 1.1% – lower than it expected in the immediate aftermath of the Brexit vote.” So after the referendum, they revised their growth estimate DOWNWARDS, that means they think the economy is getting WORSE as a result of the result!" You just don't get it do you. The IMF predicted Immediate that is "IMMEDIATE" recession and immediate economic catastrophe for the UK should we vote Leave. Now we did vote leave and the IMF had to admit we are the fastest growing economy in the G7 this year, if that is not a humiliating climbdown then I don't know what is. I actually picked the guardian link because it's probably the paper you most associate with (let's just say the Daily Mail and the Daily Express links were not worded as kindly as the guardian), and if I had posted the Daily Mail or the Daily Express links about this you would have no doubt accused me of being an extremist right winger or a racist or some other sort of ism you are so fond of labelling people with. | |||
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"The French Finance Minister has just returned to France from last weeks IMF meetings in Washington and has announced that a number of US banks have now taken the final decision to leave London, irrespective of the outcome of any Brexit negotiations. He said that bank representatives had cited the need for long term certainty over any possible negotiated agreements that the U.K. may, or more likely may not achieve. The departure of a number of banks and other financial services providers was labelled Project Fear in the run up to the Brexit referendum. Whilst there are no solid numbers yet, the banking sector as a whole contributes more than £30 billion per year in taxes to the U.K. economy. " And where are they relocating to? And how will that advantage the EU? | |||
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"The French Finance Minister has just returned to France from last weeks IMF meetings in Washington and has announced that a number of US banks have now taken the final decision to leave London, irrespective of the outcome of any Brexit negotiations. He said that bank representatives had cited the need for long term certainty over any possible negotiated agreements that the U.K. may, or more likely may not achieve. The departure of a number of banks and other financial services providers was labelled Project Fear in the run up to the Brexit referendum. Whilst there are no solid numbers yet, the banking sector as a whole contributes more than £30 billion per year in taxes to the U.K. economy. And where are they relocating to? And how will that advantage the EU?" Frankfurt | |||
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"The French Finance Minister has just returned to France from last weeks IMF meetings in Washington and has announced that a number of US banks have now taken the final decision to leave London, irrespective of the outcome of any Brexit negotiations. He said that bank representatives had cited the need for long term certainty over any possible negotiated agreements that the U.K. may, or more likely may not achieve. The departure of a number of banks and other financial services providers was labelled Project Fear in the run up to the Brexit referendum. Whilst there are no solid numbers yet, the banking sector as a whole contributes more than £30 billion per year in taxes to the U.K. economy. And where are they relocating to? And how will that advantage the EU? Frankfurt" New York | |||
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"As Brexit is now a reality I would have thought that those smart arses suffering from RRI (Repetitive Remoaning Injury) would have left the country by now! Turkey has been mentioned so as a prospective islamo-fascist EU member some fabsters here would clearly feel right at home amongst the burka-wearers. Failing that, Brussels is just two hours away on Eurostar, so what are you waiting for? There is a rather sad irony to what you say in as much as the people who have the ability to insulate themselves from Brexit induced economic damage will already have done so. The most disenfranchised Leave voters are those "ordinary" working peiople who have no control over what wage they get and will be unable to get more in wages in order to keep up with rising prices. They will also be the ones most at risk of unemployment if the economy tips in to a very bad recession. I do actually feel quite sorry for the most vocal of Leave voters who voted Leave because they were assured by politicians with an alternative agenda that their minimum wage jobs would evolve into better, long term contract jobs in a "free" UK. As always, those at the bottom will be the first to suffer, they will suffer the most and their suffering will go on the longest. Stuart Rose, remember him? The leader of the Britain stronger in Europe campaign, even he said that Brits workers wages would rise in the event that we leave the EU, so I'm afraid everything you just said there just doesn't add up. Centaur, are you going to provide us a link to the quote, or are we meant to take your word for it? Find it yourself it's really not that difficult to use Google. If you can use the Internet to find out what Mervyn King has been upto I'm sure you can use the Internet to find out what Stuart Rose said during the referendum campaign. You make these statements, but you can never ever back them up! You are so full of rubbish. Like your stuff about "humiliating climb downs" I looked it and and proved you were nothing but a liar. I guess you really did learn a lot from the Leave campaign, it doesn't matter if its true or not (cough £350 for the NHS cough), as long as Beleave its true. Maybe you were'nt around on here during the referendum campaign but i think you'll find i can always back up what i say on here, as i posted dozens of links to back up what i said during the weeks and months of the referendum. Feel free to scroll through the archives of Fab forum for referendum threads if you like. It beggars belief that you can't find any links to Stuart Rose or the IMF climbdown on an internet search engine. Do you need someone to hold your hand to do everything? It took me a matter of seconds to find these links...... www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/12181385/Wages-for-British-workers-will-rise-in-the-event-of-a-Brexit-head-of-in-campaign-says.html That is the Stuart Rose one, there were also dozens of other links i could have chosen from numerous newspapers on the subject. Now the following is about the IMF climbdown in the first week of October 2016... www.theguardian.com/business/2016/oct/04/britain-fastest-growing-g7-economy-imf-international-monetary-fund-brexit-vote Now considering the experts (snigger) at the IMF made forecasts and predictions about an immediate recession and immediate economic catastrophe for the UK should we vote Leave, it is a humiliating climbdown for them to have to admit in the first week of October 2016 that Britain will be the fastest growing economy in the G7 this year. Maybe you should learn a lesson from this, don't call me a liar and don't call me out to provide links again because i can assure you i can provide them every single time and i can always back up what i say on here. Well done, you actually could provide a link to support at least one of your arguments. There is still nothing to see above your lies regarding a humiliating climb down is there? As it says in the link, "it stuck to its view that the economy would eventually suffer from the shock EU referendum result and said expansion next year would be just 1.1% – lower than it expected in the immediate aftermath of the Brexit vote.” So after the referendum, they revised their growth estimate DOWNWARDS, that means they think the economy is getting WORSE as a result of the result! You just don't get it do you. The IMF predicted Immediate that is "IMMEDIATE" recession and immediate economic catastrophe for the UK should we vote Leave. Now we did vote leave and the IMF had to admit we are the fastest growing economy in the G7 this year, if that is not a humiliating climbdown then I don't know what is. I actually picked the guardian link because it's probably the paper you most associate with (let's just say the Daily Mail and the Daily Express links were not worded as kindly as the guardian), and if I had posted the Daily Mail or the Daily Express links about this you would have no doubt accused me of being an extremist right winger or a racist or some other sort of ism you are so fond of labelling people with. " They said they revised the estimate down! DOWN! So that means that they thought the UK was the fastest growing economy before the referendum, and then after the referendum, even after they REVISED it down, the UK was still the fastest growing, but not growing as fast as it would have done if the referendum vote had been different. You know, exactly like they said. No climb down, no humiliation (on their part), just you not being able to understand economics. Reading the Mail or Express doesn't make you a racist, it just means you have bad taste in papers and don't care about serious journalism. Left or Right bias doesn't matter to me in papers, only good or bad. The other day I was defending the Telegraph whilst Brexitiers were ripping it to shreds. | |||
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"Just keeping up to speed the with ever increasing train wreck we have the latest Mintec data on wholesale food prices and by how much they went up in Q3 compared to Q2... Mintec figures suggest a tonne of New Zealand butter costs 58% more than it did in June, while sugar costs 37% more, beef is up 33%, pork is up 18%, and wheat is up 17%. These are of course wholesale prices and do retail prices will lag sometime behind by a fair illustration of how commodity prices have soared with the collapsing £GBP. Brexit, being brought to Great Britain by patriots and happily making you poorer by the day." How is New Zealand butter going up 58% anything to do with brexit? I can accept some points made but the once k this particular post are just silly. Sorry. | |||
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"Just keeping up to speed the with ever increasing train wreck we have the latest Mintec data on wholesale food prices and by how much they went up in Q3 compared to Q2... Mintec figures suggest a tonne of New Zealand butter costs 58% more than it did in June, while sugar costs 37% more, beef is up 33%, pork is up 18%, and wheat is up 17%. These are of course wholesale prices and do retail prices will lag sometime behind by a fair illustration of how commodity prices have soared with the collapsing £GBP. Brexit, being brought to Great Britain by patriots and happily making you poorer by the day." I struggle to understand how these increases have any possible relevance to Brexit. If a currency was historically over valued , corrections would have occurred in any event. Countries are not going to stop buying our products because of Brexit. The UK motor industry accounted for £71.6 billion of exports last year . Out exports are now a lot more competitive and any price increases due to exchange rate movements are estimated to less than 3 % overall. The performance of the stock exchange speaks for itself .Pensioners relying on dividend income will be better off . | |||
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"Just keeping up to speed the with ever increasing train wreck we have the latest Mintec data on wholesale food prices and by how much they went up in Q3 compared to Q2... Mintec figures suggest a tonne of New Zealand butter costs 58% more than it did in June, while sugar costs 37% more, beef is up 33%, pork is up 18%, and wheat is up 17%. These are of course wholesale prices and do retail prices will lag sometime behind by a fair illustration of how commodity prices have soared with the collapsing £GBP. Brexit, being brought to Great Britain by patriots and happily making you poorer by the day. I struggle to understand how these increases have any possible relevance to Brexit. If a currency was historically over valued , corrections would have occurred in any event. Countries are not going to stop buying our products because of Brexit. The UK motor industry accounted for £71.6 billion of exports last year . Out exports are now a lot more competitive and any price increases due to exchange rate movements are estimated to less than 3 % overall. The performance of the stock exchange speaks for itself .Pensioners relying on dividend income will be better off ." Are you sure they are going to be better off? Have you taken into account the rising food costs? Petrol costs? General inflation? Cuts to government services looking to fill that £66bn hole in their budgets? You took all that into account right? | |||
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"Productivity up, manufacturing up, consumer confidence up, exports up, employment up, growth forecasts revised up, the deficit moving down. So yes, project fear. The value of the pound is purely politically driven at the moment and nothing to do with the state of the economy. And expect the pound to rise sharply against the Euro on the 3rd/4th December and against the dollar early next year when the US lowers interest rates. Watch this space As proved by the significant rise in share values . "And yet, in $USD, they're still worth less than they were on 23 June. The £GBP has hit its lowest level in over 160 years. In the end you can say what you like about how great thinks really are but you can't fool or buck the markets. If the markets believe the UK is going to be worse of and poorer, which they clearly do, then we will be. There is no magic wand that BREXITers, or the government, can wave that will make everything alright. The markets know that, most of us who voted remain know that and I have a sneaky feeling that most BREXITers know that to, they're just to stubborn to admit it yet. | |||
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"Actually we have managed to jump ship just in time. The EU will sink, you heard me, remember because I will say it. I told you so, in advance... Sink? The EU will evolve along with will of the people and the Governments who make up that Union. It will be as different in 15 years time as it was 15 years ago constantly striving to make life simpler and better for its citizens. Oh right, and you really believe that bs do you? But seriously, it's hilarious! The EU will not be there in 15 years time, after the Italian people have spoken, we will see the seems of a worn out wreck of an institution. The house of cards will tumble." And, assuming what you say is true, does that help us in anyway whatsoever? | |||
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"Just keeping up to speed the with ever increasing train wreck we have the latest Mintec data on wholesale food prices and by how much they went up in Q3 compared to Q2... Mintec figures suggest a tonne of New Zealand butter costs 58% more than it did in June, while sugar costs 37% more, beef is up 33%, pork is up 18%, and wheat is up 17%. These are of course wholesale prices and do retail prices will lag sometime behind by a fair illustration of how commodity prices have soared with the collapsing £GBP. Brexit, being brought to Great Britain by patriots and happily making you poorer by the day. How is New Zealand butter going up 58% anything to do with brexit? I can accept some points made but the once k this particular post are just silly. Sorry." The OP appears to refer to various foods all of which we can produce in the UK. How can these increases inpact us when we can produce our own goods. The overall impact of the currency movement is estimated to be a 3% increase in costs , but offset by more competitive exports and a stronger economy . | |||
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"Has anyone else noticed that no Brexiters were talking about the £ being overvalued before the referendum? As the front page of the FT had the fact that the £ was now at its lowest level in 168 years, I wonder why this "over valuation" hasn't been tackled sooner?" However trading agreements are only pieces of paper and it is difficult to see what possible impact they could have . A country is judged on what it produces , not trading agreements . | |||
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"Has anyone else noticed that no Brexiters were talking about the £ being overvalued before the referendum? As the front page of the FT had the fact that the £ was now at its lowest level in 168 years, I wonder why this "over valuation" hasn't been tackled sooner?" How? Sure there will be ups and downs along the way, but can you explain the rise in exports, rise in manufacturing and productivity, improved trade balance, reduction in the deficit, rise in employment, rise in consumer confidence, rise in mortgage applications, rise in wages all since the referendum? Or are you only interested in bad unsubstantiated predictions to try to justify your mistake in voting to remain? | |||
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"As Brexit is now a reality I would have thought that those smart arses suffering from RRI (Repetitive Remoaning Injury) would have left the country by now! Turkey has been mentioned so as a prospective islamo-fascist EU member some fabsters here would clearly feel right at home amongst the burka-wearers. Failing that, Brussels is just two hours away on Eurostar, so what are you waiting for? Hardly anyone in Turkey wears a Burka, most don't even wear a headscarf. Turkey is years away from joining, if they do ever actually join. But even once they meet the prerequisites, any member can veto them joining. That included the UK until we voted to leave. What are you actually worried about by the thought of Turkey joining the EU? Why dont you want them to join? With regards to Remainers leaving the UK, I don't see why we should. 38% of the country voted to leave the EU, 62% didn't. Surely the people who don't want to be in the EU should be the ones to leave? " Good idea. Why don't all those who want to be British but not in the EU fuck off to the Isle of Man, the Chanel Islands or better still the Falklands. Mind you they probably wouldn't let then in because, let's face, they've sold out their own country and people already. Many have said repeatedly on here that they "don't give shit that people will be poorer" and "it serves them right". They'd probably sell out the Falklands to the Argies and the Channel Islands to the French because once a perfidious traitor always a perfidious traitor. It's who they really are. | |||
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"As Brexit is now a reality I would have thought that those smart arses suffering from RRI (Repetitive Remoaning Injury) would have left the country by now! Turkey has been mentioned so as a prospective islamo-fascist EU member some fabsters here would clearly feel right at home amongst the burka-wearers. Failing that, Brussels is just two hours away on Eurostar, so what are you waiting for? Hardly anyone in Turkey wears a Burka, most don't even wear a headscarf. Turkey is years away from joining, if they do ever actually join. But even once they meet the prerequisites, any member can veto them joining. That included the UK until we voted to leave. What are you actually worried about by the thought of Turkey joining the EU? Why dont you want them to join? With regards to Remainers leaving the UK, I don't see why we should. 38% of the country voted to leave the EU, 62% didn't. Surely the people who don't want to be in the EU should be the ones to leave? Good idea. Why don't all those who want to be British but not in the EU fuck off to the Isle of Man, the Chanel Islands or better still the Falklands. Mind you they probably wouldn't let then in because, let's face, they've sold out their own country and people already. Many have said repeatedly on here that they "don't give shit that people will be poorer" and "it serves them right". They'd probably sell out the Falklands to the Argies and the Channel Islands to the French because once a perfidious traitor always a perfidious traitor. It's who they really are." But at least we are the majority eh?
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"Productivity up, manufacturing up, consumer confidence up, exports up, employment up, growth forecasts revised up, the deficit moving down. So yes, project fear. The value of the pound is purely politically driven at the moment and nothing to do with the state of the economy. And expect the pound to rise sharply against the Euro on the 3rd/4th December and against the dollar early next year when the US lowers interest rates. Watch this space" okay.... not going to get into an arguement just going to factcheck the various statements you made.... Productivity up,..... in certain sectors true, but in sectors like housebuilding this is not the case manufacturing up.... again in some sectors yes, but in others no consumer confidence up... actually this one is not true, as consumer spending had actually slowed down since the referendum exports up... i'll give you this one, but it seems weird you then rubbished the reduction in the pound as a reason for this..... employment up... this is true as the unemployment rate has decreased, however this was also true for the 18 months before the vote growth forecasts revised up.... this is the biggest whopper in all the stuff you claimed... in fact all growth forcasts from the obr, imf, bank of england and the ifs have all revised growth down, and in some cases down by about 3%..... the deficit moving down.... actually not quite true anymore as hammond as actually gotten rid of osbournes deceifit reduction target, but hasn't put one in to replace... all we know now is that the target to reach 0 before then end of this parliament has now gone! The value of the pound is purely politically driven at the moment and nothing to do with the state of the economy....... again not quite true, people tend to stuck there money is safe havens if they expect a volitile economy, and with the decrease in growth the uk isn't as stable as it one was, that MAY change after the negioiations when we know what brexit actually meant, but for the next two years.... its not stable! And expect the pound to rise sharply against the Euro on the 3rd/4th December and against the dollar early next year when the US lowers interest rates. Watch this space........... it won't rise again the euro! the ECB interest rate is actually lower than the UK interest rate at 0%.... and the US fed rate at the moment is at 0.25-0.5%... and us fed president only just said yesterday the US interest rate looks likely to be up rather than down..... in fact it could happen as soon as the end of this year!!! so you got the move right.... the direction wrong, and if that does happen the pound will slip further against the dollar....... | |||
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"There will be a long period of things re-aligning. Imports will get more expensive, if the pound stays low or tariffs are applied. In my opinion, as always having worked in UK manufacturing, I think long term this is better. Imports more expensive, exports cheaper, will help us re-build UK based production of goods and food. Who exactly is going to do this re-aligning? Nissan are one of our biggest exporters and they are asking the UK Govt for guarantees that they wont be exposed to exporting tariffs. In this kind of environment, exactly who is going to rock up and start building cars, motorcycles, ships or other goods? I'm predicting that ALL of the foreign owned manufacturing companies in the UK will seek some form of financial reimbursement from the government regarding tariffs on exports to the EU" I'm sure most will look at that option but it won't work. Any additional money given by government to firms to alleviate tariffs would probably be seen by the EU as unfair subsidy and attract additional anti dumping tariffs. I'm afraid, if tariff trading between the UK and EU becomes a reality the only way to avoid them would be to relocate the manufacturing to within the EU. | |||
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"As Brexit is now a reality I would have thought that those smart arses suffering from RRI (Repetitive Remoaning Injury) would have left the country by now! Turkey has been mentioned so as a prospective islamo-fascist EU member some fabsters here would clearly feel right at home amongst the burka-wearers. Failing that, Brussels is just two hours away on Eurostar, so what are you waiting for? There is a rather sad irony to what you say in as much as the people who have the ability to insulate themselves from Brexit induced economic damage will already have done so. The most disenfranchised Leave voters are those "ordinary" working peiople who have no control over what wage they get and will be unable to get more in wages in order to keep up with rising prices. They will also be the ones most at risk of unemployment if the economy tips in to a very bad recession. I do actually feel quite sorry for the most vocal of Leave voters who voted Leave because they were assured by politicians with an alternative agenda that their minimum wage jobs would evolve into better, long term contract jobs in a "free" UK. As always, those at the bottom will be the first to suffer, they will suffer the most and their suffering will go on the longest. Stuart Rose, remember him? The leader of the Britain stronger in Europe campaign, even he said that Brits workers wages would rise in the event that we leave the EU, so I'm afraid everything you just said there just doesn't add up. " Except, as you well know because you are one of the few BREXITers who does actually look into things (even if, in my opinion, you come to totally the wrong conclusion) that is not what he actually said. What he actually said was that being in the EU has lead to an overall increase in wages, however, for the bottom 10% of wage earners it has lead to a decrease in wages of up to 2%. End of paraphrase Whilst clearly the bottom 10% being worse of by 2% is not a good thing by quoting him and his argument you are accepting that 90% are better of from being in the EU so leaving will surely make that 90% worse of. I would've thought that a better way to solve the 2% reduction in wages of the bottom 10% would be to increase the minimum wage to a more realistic living wage, not to take action that will make the 90% worse off. | |||
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"Just keeping up to speed the with ever increasing train wreck we have the latest Mintec data on wholesale food prices and by how much they went up in Q3 compared to Q2... Mintec figures suggest a tonne of New Zealand butter costs 58% more than it did in June, while sugar costs 37% more, beef is up 33%, pork is up 18%, and wheat is up 17%. These are of course wholesale prices and do retail prices will lag sometime behind by a fair illustration of how commodity prices have soared with the collapsing £GBP. Brexit, being brought to Great Britain by patriots and happily making you poorer by the day. I struggle to understand how these increases have any possible relevance to Brexit. If a currency was historically over valued , corrections would have occurred in any event. Countries are not going to stop buying our products because of Brexit. The UK motor industry accounted for £71.6 billion of exports last year . Out exports are now a lot more competitive and any price increases due to exchange rate movements are estimated to less than 3 % overall. The performance of the stock exchange speaks for itself .Pensioners relying on dividend income will be better off . Are you sure they are going to be better off? Have you taken into account the rising food costs? Petrol costs? General inflation? Cuts to government services looking to fill that £66bn hole in their budgets? You took all that into account right? " There you go again talking about the £66bn as if it's a fact. It's not a fact it's a prediction/forecast for 15 years in the future based on a load of dodgy assumptions for George Osborne's remain campaign. | |||
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"Productivity up, manufacturing up, consumer confidence up, exports up, employment up, growth forecasts revised up, the deficit moving down. So yes, project fear. The value of the pound is purely politically driven at the moment and nothing to do with the state of the economy. And expect the pound to rise sharply against the Euro on the 3rd/4th December and against the dollar early next year when the US lowers interest rates. Watch this space okay.... not going to get into an arguement just going to factcheck the various statements you made.... Productivity up,..... in certain sectors true, but in sectors like housebuilding this is not the case manufacturing up.... again in some sectors yes, but in others no consumer confidence up... actually this one is not true, as consumer spending had actually slowed down since the referendum exports up... i'll give you this one, but it seems weird you then rubbished the reduction in the pound as a reason for this..... employment up... this is true as the unemployment rate has decreased, however this was also true for the 18 months before the vote growth forecasts revised up.... this is the biggest whopper in all the stuff you claimed... in fact all growth forcasts from the obr, imf, bank of england and the ifs have all revised growth down, and in some cases down by about 3%..... the deficit moving down.... actually not quite true anymore as hammond as actually gotten rid of osbournes deceifit reduction target, but hasn't put one in to replace... all we know now is that the target to reach 0 before then end of this parliament has now gone! The value of the pound is purely politically driven at the moment and nothing to do with the state of the economy....... again not quite true, people tend to stuck there money is safe havens if they expect a volitile economy, and with the decrease in growth the uk isn't as stable as it one was, that MAY change after the negioiations when we know what brexit actually meant, but for the next two years.... its not stable! And expect the pound to rise sharply against the Euro on the 3rd/4th December and against the dollar early next year when the US lowers interest rates. Watch this space........... it won't rise again the euro! the ECB interest rate is actually lower than the UK interest rate at 0%.... and the US fed rate at the moment is at 0.25-0.5%... and us fed president only just said yesterday the US interest rate looks likely to be up rather than down..... in fact it could happen as soon as the end of this year!!! so you got the move right.... the direction wrong, and if that does happen the pound will slip further against the dollar......." ok, not going to argue but of course some sections of manufacturing and productivity will be down but on the whole it is up. Don't take my word on consumer confidence, look at the survey carried out by Barclays among others. Growth forecasts are up compared to what the IMF and others forecast if there was a vote to leave. The deficit is down on what was predicted. The pound is politically driven at the moment because it hangs on every word May says, not on the actual state of the economy. The pound will rise against the Euro on those dates because of the Italian referendum, nothing to do with the ECB. I'll give you the USA one, I thought I'd read they were looking to lower rates next year. But what happens if our rates go up too? | |||
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"Has anyone else noticed that no Brexiters were talking about the £ being overvalued before the referendum? As the front page of the FT had the fact that the £ was now at its lowest level in 168 years, I wonder why this "over valuation" hasn't been tackled sooner?" I will just quote what the ex governor of the Bank of England Mervyn King said a few days ago...."The bank of England has been trying to devalue the pound for the last 3 years". They have been unsuccessfully trying to do it for the last 3 years and now Brexit has given them the vehicle to achieve it. | |||
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"There will be a long period of things re-aligning. Imports will get more expensive, if the pound stays low or tariffs are applied. In my opinion, as always having worked in UK manufacturing, I think long term this is better. Imports more expensive, exports cheaper, will help us re-build UK based production of goods and food. Who exactly is going to do this re-aligning? Nissan are one of our biggest exporters and they are asking the UK Govt for guarantees that they wont be exposed to exporting tariffs. In this kind of environment, exactly who is going to rock up and start building cars, motorcycles, ships or other goods? I'm predicting that ALL of the foreign owned manufacturing companies in the UK will seek some form of financial reimbursement from the government regarding tariffs on exports to the EU and will all foreign owned manufacturing companies in the EU and EU owned companies in the EU seek some form of reimbursement from their governments regarding tariffs on exports to the UK do you think? That's a very good point, but do you have any instances of Chinese or Japanese companies who manufacture goods within the EU that export to Britiain? without looking no but what difference does it make where they come from?" The difference is is that most British companies will stay in Britain and most EU companies will stay in the EU but most foreign companies will go to were they can get their good, at the cheapest possible price to the largest number of customers. In the UK that's 60 million, in the EU that's 450 million. | |||
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"Has anyone else noticed that no Brexiters were talking about the £ being overvalued before the referendum? As the front page of the FT had the fact that the £ was now at its lowest level in 168 years, I wonder why this "over valuation" hasn't been tackled sooner? I will just quote what the ex governor of the Bank of England Mervyn King said a few days ago...."The bank of England has been trying to devalue the pound for the last 3 years". They have been unsuccessfully trying to do it for the last 3 years and now Brexit has given them the vehicle to achieve it. " Its the lowest in 168 years! That means it was over valued for nearly 100 years before King was even born!!!!!! | |||
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"There will be a long period of things re-aligning. Imports will get more expensive, if the pound stays low or tariffs are applied. In my opinion, as always having worked in UK manufacturing, I think long term this is better. Imports more expensive, exports cheaper, will help us re-build UK based production of goods and food. Who exactly is going to do this re-aligning? Nissan are one of our biggest exporters and they are asking the UK Govt for guarantees that they wont be exposed to exporting tariffs. In this kind of environment, exactly who is going to rock up and start building cars, motorcycles, ships or other goods? I'm predicting that ALL of the foreign owned manufacturing companies in the UK will seek some form of financial reimbursement from the government regarding tariffs on exports to the EU and will all foreign owned manufacturing companies in the EU and EU owned companies in the EU seek some form of reimbursement from their governments regarding tariffs on exports to the UK do you think? That's a very good point, but do you have any instances of Chinese or Japanese companies who manufacture goods within the EU that export to Britiain? without looking no but what difference does it make where they come from? The difference is is that most British companies will stay in Britain and most EU companies will stay in the EU but most foreign companies will go to were they can get their good, at the cheapest possible price to the largest number of customers. In the UK that's 60 million, in the EU that's 450 million." That's an EU market of 440 million then, but at least you've stopped trying to push the EU market of 500 million lie now. | |||
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"As Brexit is now a reality I would have thought that those smart arses suffering from RRI (Repetitive Remoaning Injury) would have left the country by now! Turkey has been mentioned so as a prospective islamo-fascist EU member some fabsters here would clearly feel right at home amongst the burka-wearers. Failing that, Brussels is just two hours away on Eurostar, so what are you waiting for? Hardly anyone in Turkey wears a Burka, most don't even wear a headscarf. Turkey is years away from joining, if they do ever actually join. But even once they meet the prerequisites, any member can veto them joining. That included the UK until we voted to leave. What are you actually worried about by the thought of Turkey joining the EU? Why dont you want them to join? With regards to Remainers leaving the UK, I don't see why we should. 38% of the country voted to leave the EU, 62% didn't. Surely the people who don't want to be in the EU should be the ones to leave? Good idea. Why don't all those who want to be British but not in the EU fuck off to the Isle of Man, the Chanel Islands or better still the Falklands. Mind you they probably wouldn't let then in because, let's face, they've sold out their own country and people already. Many have said repeatedly on here that they "don't give shit that people will be poorer" and "it serves them right". They'd probably sell out the Falklands to the Argies and the Channel Islands to the French because once a perfidious traitor always a perfidious traitor. It's who they really are." Who said anyone would be poorer . ? I thought that we would be better off because of out exports being more competitive and not having to pay any subsidies to the EU. The estimated price rise on imports is estimated to be circa 3 % and we can hardly blame that on Brexit brcause Sterling was over valued in any event . Judging by the peformance of the Stock Exchamge confifence remains high and pensioners will be better off. | |||
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"As Brexit is now a reality I would have thought that those smart arses suffering from RRI (Repetitive Remoaning Injury) would have left the country by now! Turkey has been mentioned so as a prospective islamo-fascist EU member some fabsters here would clearly feel right at home amongst the burka-wearers. Failing that, Brussels is just two hours away on Eurostar, so what are you waiting for? Hardly anyone in Turkey wears a Burka, most don't even wear a headscarf. Turkey is years away from joining, if they do ever actually join. But even once they meet the prerequisites, any member can veto them joining. That included the UK until we voted to leave. What are you actually worried about by the thought of Turkey joining the EU? Why dont you want them to join? With regards to Remainers leaving the UK, I don't see why we should. 38% of the country voted to leave the EU, 62% didn't. Surely the people who don't want to be in the EU should be the ones to leave? Good idea. Why don't all those who want to be British but not in the EU fuck off to the Isle of Man, the Chanel Islands or better still the Falklands. Mind you they probably wouldn't let then in because, let's face, they've sold out their own country and people already. Many have said repeatedly on here that they "don't give shit that people will be poorer" and "it serves them right". They'd probably sell out the Falklands to the Argies and the Channel Islands to the French because once a perfidious traitor always a perfidious traitor. It's who they really are. Who said anyone would be poorer . ? I thought that we would be better off because of out exports being more competitive and not having to pay any subsidies to the EU. The estimated price rise on imports is estimated to be circa 3 % and we can hardly blame that on Brexit brcause Sterling was over valued in any event . Judging by the peformance of the Stock Exchamge confifence remains high and pensioners will be better off. " The Treasury say we are going to be poorer, the World Bank says we are going to be poorer, the International Monetary Fund says we are going to be poorer, the Institute for Fiscal Studies says we are going to be poorer, PricewaterhouseCooper says we are going to be poorer, 90% of UK economists say we are going to be poorer, the London School of Economics says we are going to be poorer, The Bank of England says we are going to be poorer etc. etc. etc. This was all made very clear before the referendum. We are not a net exporting nation. We import a lot more than we export. So although our exports are cheaper, all of our imports are more expensive, thus leaving us worse off. Sterling as at is lowest point in 168 years, to say that sterling has been over valued longer than anyone on the planet has been alive is quite frankly ridiculous. To say that we needed Brexit to devalue it when WWI & WWII didn't do the trick, neither did leaving the gold standard or leaving the ERM or the 2008 financial crash, or the dot com bubble, or the great depression etc. is also a complete and utter fallacy. Not having to pay a contribution towards the EU, well that will save us £13 bn a year (Im being generous here, the IFS puts the figure at just £8 bn a year). But we are going to loose £66bn a year in tax revenue. We have already had to spend £70bn on monetary policy measures so far this year and we haven't even triggered article 50 yet. The Center for Economic Policy at the London School of Economics believes that the amount of foreign investment into the UK will drop by 22% over the next 10 years as a direct result of Brexit, costing us £2,200 per year in GDP. So now can you understand and accept that with lower tax revenues, rising import costs, monetary policy measures, and less foreign investment, that the UK is going to be significantly worse off after we leave the EU? | |||
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"As Brexit is now a reality I would have thought that those smart arses suffering from RRI (Repetitive Remoaning Injury) would have left the country by now! Turkey has been mentioned so as a prospective islamo-fascist EU member some fabsters here would clearly feel right at home amongst the burka-wearers. Failing that, Brussels is just two hours away on Eurostar, so what are you waiting for? Hardly anyone in Turkey wears a Burka, most don't even wear a headscarf. Turkey is years away from joining, if they do ever actually join. But even once they meet the prerequisites, any member can veto them joining. That included the UK until we voted to leave. What are you actually worried about by the thought of Turkey joining the EU? Why dont you want them to join? With regards to Remainers leaving the UK, I don't see why we should. 38% of the country voted to leave the EU, 62% didn't. Surely the people who don't want to be in the EU should be the ones to leave? Good idea. Why don't all those who want to be British but not in the EU fuck off to the Isle of Man, the Chanel Islands or better still the Falklands. Mind you they probably wouldn't let then in because, let's face, they've sold out their own country and people already. Many have said repeatedly on here that they "don't give shit that people will be poorer" and "it serves them right". They'd probably sell out the Falklands to the Argies and the Channel Islands to the French because once a perfidious traitor always a perfidious traitor. It's who they really are. Who said anyone would be poorer . ? I thought that we would be better off because of out exports being more competitive and not having to pay any subsidies to the EU. The estimated price rise on imports is estimated to be circa 3 % and we can hardly blame that on Brexit brcause Sterling was over valued in any event . Judging by the peformance of the Stock Exchamge confifence remains high and pensioners will be better off. The Treasury say we are going to be poorer, the World Bank says we are going to be poorer, the International Monetary Fund says we are going to be poorer, the Institute for Fiscal Studies says we are going to be poorer, PricewaterhouseCooper says we are going to be poorer, 90% of UK economists say we are going to be poorer, the London School of Economics says we are going to be poorer, The Bank of England says we are going to be poorer etc. etc. etc. This was all made very clear before the referendum. We are not a net exporting nation. We import a lot more than we export. So although our exports are cheaper, all of our imports are more expensive, thus leaving us worse off. Sterling as at is lowest point in 168 years, to say that sterling has been over valued longer than anyone on the planet has been alive is quite frankly ridiculous. To say that we needed Brexit to devalue it when WWI & WWII didn't do the trick, neither did leaving the gold standard or leaving the ERM or the 2008 financial crash, or the dot com bubble, or the great depression etc. is also a complete and utter fallacy. Not having to pay a contribution towards the EU, well that will save us £13 bn a year (Im being generous here, the IFS puts the figure at just £8 bn a year). But we are going to loose £66bn a year in tax revenue. We have already had to spend £70bn on monetary policy measures so far this year and we haven't even triggered article 50 yet. The Center for Economic Policy at the London School of Economics believes that the amount of foreign investment into the UK will drop by 22% over the next 10 years as a direct result of Brexit, costing us £2,200 per year in GDP. So now can you understand and accept that with lower tax revenues, rising import costs, monetary policy measures, and less foreign investment, that the UK is going to be significantly worse off after we leave the EU? " Myths and opinions and I don't accept a word of it. Every one of the sources you quote are now backtracking on their original scare stories. Even the 66 billion figure is at least six months out of date and came from George Osbournes treasury. Enough said. | |||
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"As Brexit is now a reality I would have thought that those smart arses suffering from RRI (Repetitive Remoaning Injury) would have left the country by now! Turkey has been mentioned so as a prospective islamo-fascist EU member some fabsters here would clearly feel right at home amongst the burka-wearers. Failing that, Brussels is just two hours away on Eurostar, so what are you waiting for? Hardly anyone in Turkey wears a Burka, most don't even wear a headscarf. Turkey is years away from joining, if they do ever actually join. But even once they meet the prerequisites, any member can veto them joining. That included the UK until we voted to leave. What are you actually worried about by the thought of Turkey joining the EU? Why dont you want them to join? With regards to Remainers leaving the UK, I don't see why we should. 38% of the country voted to leave the EU, 62% didn't. Surely the people who don't want to be in the EU should be the ones to leave? Good idea. Why don't all those who want to be British but not in the EU fuck off to the Isle of Man, the Chanel Islands or better still the Falklands. Mind you they probably wouldn't let then in because, let's face, they've sold out their own country and people already. Many have said repeatedly on here that they "don't give shit that people will be poorer" and "it serves them right". They'd probably sell out the Falklands to the Argies and the Channel Islands to the French because once a perfidious traitor always a perfidious traitor. It's who they really are. Who said anyone would be poorer . ? I thought that we would be better off because of out exports being more competitive and not having to pay any subsidies to the EU. The estimated price rise on imports is estimated to be circa 3 % and we can hardly blame that on Brexit brcause Sterling was over valued in any event . Judging by the peformance of the Stock Exchamge confifence remains high and pensioners will be better off. The Treasury say we are going to be poorer, the World Bank says we are going to be poorer, the International Monetary Fund says we are going to be poorer, the Institute for Fiscal Studies says we are going to be poorer, PricewaterhouseCooper says we are going to be poorer, 90% of UK economists say we are going to be poorer, the London School of Economics says we are going to be poorer, The Bank of England says we are going to be poorer etc. etc. etc. This was all made very clear before the referendum. We are not a net exporting nation. We import a lot more than we export. So although our exports are cheaper, all of our imports are more expensive, thus leaving us worse off. Sterling as at is lowest point in 168 years, to say that sterling has been over valued longer than anyone on the planet has been alive is quite frankly ridiculous. To say that we needed Brexit to devalue it when WWI & WWII didn't do the trick, neither did leaving the gold standard or leaving the ERM or the 2008 financial crash, or the dot com bubble, or the great depression etc. is also a complete and utter fallacy. Not having to pay a contribution towards the EU, well that will save us £13 bn a year (Im being generous here, the IFS puts the figure at just £8 bn a year). But we are going to loose £66bn a year in tax revenue. We have already had to spend £70bn on monetary policy measures so far this year and we haven't even triggered article 50 yet. The Center for Economic Policy at the London School of Economics believes that the amount of foreign investment into the UK will drop by 22% over the next 10 years as a direct result of Brexit, costing us £2,200 per year in GDP. So now can you understand and accept that with lower tax revenues, rising import costs, monetary policy measures, and less foreign investment, that the UK is going to be significantly worse off after we leave the EU? Myths and opinions and I don't accept a word of it. Every one of the sources you quote are now backtracking on their original scare stories. Even the 66 billion figure is at least six months out of date and came from George Osbournes treasury. Enough said. " Who? is - George Osbourne ?????? | |||
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"As Brexit is now a reality I would have thought that those smart arses suffering from RRI (Repetitive Remoaning Injury) would have left the country by now! Turkey has been mentioned so as a prospective islamo-fascist EU member some fabsters here would clearly feel right at home amongst the burka-wearers. Failing that, Brussels is just two hours away on Eurostar, so what are you waiting for? Hardly anyone in Turkey wears a Burka, most don't even wear a headscarf. Turkey is years away from joining, if they do ever actually join. But even once they meet the prerequisites, any member can veto them joining. That included the UK until we voted to leave. What are you actually worried about by the thought of Turkey joining the EU? Why dont you want them to join? With regards to Remainers leaving the UK, I don't see why we should. 38% of the country voted to leave the EU, 62% didn't. Surely the people who don't want to be in the EU should be the ones to leave? Good idea. Why don't all those who want to be British but not in the EU fuck off to the Isle of Man, the Chanel Islands or better still the Falklands. Mind you they probably wouldn't let then in because, let's face, they've sold out their own country and people already. Many have said repeatedly on here that they "don't give shit that people will be poorer" and "it serves them right". They'd probably sell out the Falklands to the Argies and the Channel Islands to the French because once a perfidious traitor always a perfidious traitor. It's who they really are. Who said anyone would be poorer . ? I thought that we would be better off because of out exports being more competitive and not having to pay any subsidies to the EU. The estimated price rise on imports is estimated to be circa 3 % and we can hardly blame that on Brexit brcause Sterling was over valued in any event . Judging by the peformance of the Stock Exchamge confifence remains high and pensioners will be better off. The Treasury say we are going to be poorer, the World Bank says we are going to be poorer, the International Monetary Fund says we are going to be poorer, the Institute for Fiscal Studies says we are going to be poorer, PricewaterhouseCooper says we are going to be poorer, 90% of UK economists say we are going to be poorer, the London School of Economics says we are going to be poorer, The Bank of England says we are going to be poorer etc. etc. etc. This was all made very clear before the referendum. We are not a net exporting nation. We import a lot more than we export. So although our exports are cheaper, all of our imports are more expensive, thus leaving us worse off. Sterling as at is lowest point in 168 years, to say that sterling has been over valued longer than anyone on the planet has been alive is quite frankly ridiculous. To say that we needed Brexit to devalue it when WWI & WWII didn't do the trick, neither did leaving the gold standard or leaving the ERM or the 2008 financial crash, or the dot com bubble, or the great depression etc. is also a complete and utter fallacy. Not having to pay a contribution towards the EU, well that will save us £13 bn a year (Im being generous here, the IFS puts the figure at just £8 bn a year). But we are going to loose £66bn a year in tax revenue. We have already had to spend £70bn on monetary policy measures so far this year and we haven't even triggered article 50 yet. The Center for Economic Policy at the London School of Economics believes that the amount of foreign investment into the UK will drop by 22% over the next 10 years as a direct result of Brexit, costing us £2,200 per year in GDP. So now can you understand and accept that with lower tax revenues, rising import costs, monetary policy measures, and less foreign investment, that the UK is going to be significantly worse off after we leave the EU? Myths and opinions and I don't accept a word of it. Every one of the sources you quote are now backtracking on their original scare stories. Even the 66 billion figure is at least six months out of date and came from George Osbournes treasury. Enough said. Who? is - George Osbourne ??????" He also goes by the name of Gideon. | |||
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"As Brexit is now a reality I would have thought that those smart arses suffering from RRI (Repetitive Remoaning Injury) would have left the country by now! Turkey has been mentioned so as a prospective islamo-fascist EU member some fabsters here would clearly feel right at home amongst the burka-wearers. Failing that, Brussels is just two hours away on Eurostar, so what are you waiting for? Hardly anyone in Turkey wears a Burka, most don't even wear a headscarf. Turkey is years away from joining, if they do ever actually join. But even once they meet the prerequisites, any member can veto them joining. That included the UK until we voted to leave. What are you actually worried about by the thought of Turkey joining the EU? Why dont you want them to join? With regards to Remainers leaving the UK, I don't see why we should. 38% of the country voted to leave the EU, 62% didn't. Surely the people who don't want to be in the EU should be the ones to leave? Good idea. Why don't all those who want to be British but not in the EU fuck off to the Isle of Man, the Chanel Islands or better still the Falklands. Mind you they probably wouldn't let then in because, let's face, they've sold out their own country and people already. Many have said repeatedly on here that they "don't give shit that people will be poorer" and "it serves them right". They'd probably sell out the Falklands to the Argies and the Channel Islands to the French because once a perfidious traitor always a perfidious traitor. It's who they really are. Who said anyone would be poorer . ? I thought that we would be better off because of out exports being more competitive and not having to pay any subsidies to the EU. The estimated price rise on imports is estimated to be circa 3 % and we can hardly blame that on Brexit brcause Sterling was over valued in any event . Judging by the peformance of the Stock Exchamge confifence remains high and pensioners will be better off. The Treasury say we are going to be poorer, the World Bank says we are going to be poorer, the International Monetary Fund says we are going to be poorer, the Institute for Fiscal Studies says we are going to be poorer, PricewaterhouseCooper says we are going to be poorer, 90% of UK economists say we are going to be poorer, the London School of Economics says we are going to be poorer, The Bank of England says we are going to be poorer etc. etc. etc. This was all made very clear before the referendum. We are not a net exporting nation. We import a lot more than we export. So although our exports are cheaper, all of our imports are more expensive, thus leaving us worse off. Sterling as at is lowest point in 168 years, to say that sterling has been over valued longer than anyone on the planet has been alive is quite frankly ridiculous. To say that we needed Brexit to devalue it when WWI & WWII didn't do the trick, neither did leaving the gold standard or leaving the ERM or the 2008 financial crash, or the dot com bubble, or the great depression etc. is also a complete and utter fallacy. Not having to pay a contribution towards the EU, well that will save us £13 bn a year (Im being generous here, the IFS puts the figure at just £8 bn a year). But we are going to loose £66bn a year in tax revenue. We have already had to spend £70bn on monetary policy measures so far this year and we haven't even triggered article 50 yet. The Center for Economic Policy at the London School of Economics believes that the amount of foreign investment into the UK will drop by 22% over the next 10 years as a direct result of Brexit, costing us £2,200 per year in GDP. So now can you understand and accept that with lower tax revenues, rising import costs, monetary policy measures, and less foreign investment, that the UK is going to be significantly worse off after we leave the EU? Myths and opinions and I don't accept a word of it. Every one of the sources you quote are now backtracking on their original scare stories. Even the 66 billion figure is at least six months out of date and came from George Osbournes treasury. Enough said. " I know you don't believe it, that's because you are not intelligent enough to differentiate between expert opinion and your opinion, but you have completely missed the point of the post. The poster I quoted asked who had said we would be poorer, I was pointing out the organisations who had said we would be poorer. | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"As Brexit is now a reality I would have thought that those smart arses suffering from RRI (Repetitive Remoaning Injury) would have left the country by now! Turkey has been mentioned so as a prospective islamo-fascist EU member some fabsters here would clearly feel right at home amongst the burka-wearers. Failing that, Brussels is just two hours away on Eurostar, so what are you waiting for? Hardly anyone in Turkey wears a Burka, most don't even wear a headscarf. Turkey is years away from joining, if they do ever actually join. But even once they meet the prerequisites, any member can veto them joining. That included the UK until we voted to leave. What are you actually worried about by the thought of Turkey joining the EU? Why dont you want them to join? With regards to Remainers leaving the UK, I don't see why we should. 38% of the country voted to leave the EU, 62% didn't. Surely the people who don't want to be in the EU should be the ones to leave? Good idea. Why don't all those who want to be British but not in the EU fuck off to the Isle of Man, the Chanel Islands or better still the Falklands. Mind you they probably wouldn't let then in because, let's face, they've sold out their own country and people already. Many have said repeatedly on here that they "don't give shit that people will be poorer" and "it serves them right". They'd probably sell out the Falklands to the Argies and the Channel Islands to the French because once a perfidious traitor always a perfidious traitor. It's who they really are. Who said anyone would be poorer . ? I thought that we would be better off because of out exports being more competitive and not having to pay any subsidies to the EU. The estimated price rise on imports is estimated to be circa 3 % and we can hardly blame that on Brexit brcause Sterling was over valued in any event . Judging by the peformance of the Stock Exchamge confifence remains high and pensioners will be better off. The Treasury say we are going to be poorer, the World Bank says we are going to be poorer, the International Monetary Fund says we are going to be poorer, the Institute for Fiscal Studies says we are going to be poorer, PricewaterhouseCooper says we are going to be poorer, 90% of UK economists say we are going to be poorer, the London School of Economics says we are going to be poorer, The Bank of England says we are going to be poorer etc. etc. etc. This was all made very clear before the referendum. We are not a net exporting nation. We import a lot more than we export. So although our exports are cheaper, all of our imports are more expensive, thus leaving us worse off. Sterling as at is lowest point in 168 years, to say that sterling has been over valued longer than anyone on the planet has been alive is quite frankly ridiculous. To say that we needed Brexit to devalue it when WWI & WWII didn't do the trick, neither did leaving the gold standard or leaving the ERM or the 2008 financial crash, or the dot com bubble, or the great depression etc. is also a complete and utter fallacy. Not having to pay a contribution towards the EU, well that will save us £13 bn a year (Im being generous here, the IFS puts the figure at just £8 bn a year). But we are going to loose £66bn a year in tax revenue. We have already had to spend £70bn on monetary policy measures so far this year and we haven't even triggered article 50 yet. The Center for Economic Policy at the London School of Economics believes that the amount of foreign investment into the UK will drop by 22% over the next 10 years as a direct result of Brexit, costing us £2,200 per year in GDP. So now can you understand and accept that with lower tax revenues, rising import costs, monetary policy measures, and less foreign investment, that the UK is going to be significantly worse off after we leave the EU? Myths and opinions and I don't accept a word of it. Every one of the sources you quote are now backtracking on their original scare stories. Even the 66 billion figure is at least six months out of date and came from George Osbournes treasury. Enough said. I know you don't believe it, that's because you are not intelligent enough to differentiate between expert opinion and your opinion, but you have completely missed the point of the post. The poster I quoted asked who had said we would be poorer, I was pointing out the organisations who had said we would be poorer." Sorry my mistake. These days it seems intelligence only comes from Cambridge. Along with sanctimonious pricks of course. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"As Brexit is now a reality I would have thought that those smart arses suffering from RRI (Repetitive Remoaning Injury) would have left the country by now! Turkey has been mentioned so as a prospective islamo-fascist EU member some fabsters here would clearly feel right at home amongst the burka-wearers. Failing that, Brussels is just two hours away on Eurostar, so what are you waiting for? Hardly anyone in Turkey wears a Burka, most don't even wear a headscarf. Turkey is years away from joining, if they do ever actually join. But even once they meet the prerequisites, any member can veto them joining. That included the UK until we voted to leave. What are you actually worried about by the thought of Turkey joining the EU? Why dont you want them to join? With regards to Remainers leaving the UK, I don't see why we should. 38% of the country voted to leave the EU, 62% didn't. Surely the people who don't want to be in the EU should be the ones to leave? Good idea. Why don't all those who want to be British but not in the EU fuck off to the Isle of Man, the Chanel Islands or better still the Falklands. Mind you they probably wouldn't let then in because, let's face, they've sold out their own country and people already. Many have said repeatedly on here that they "don't give shit that people will be poorer" and "it serves them right". They'd probably sell out the Falklands to the Argies and the Channel Islands to the French because once a perfidious traitor always a perfidious traitor. It's who they really are. Who said anyone would be poorer . ? I thought that we would be better off because of out exports being more competitive and not having to pay any subsidies to the EU. The estimated price rise on imports is estimated to be circa 3 % and we can hardly blame that on Brexit brcause Sterling was over valued in any event . Judging by the peformance of the Stock Exchamge confifence remains high and pensioners will be better off. The Treasury say we are going to be poorer, the World Bank says we are going to be poorer, the International Monetary Fund says we are going to be poorer, the Institute for Fiscal Studies says we are going to be poorer, PricewaterhouseCooper says we are going to be poorer, 90% of UK economists say we are going to be poorer, the London School of Economics says we are going to be poorer, The Bank of England says we are going to be poorer etc. etc. etc. This was all made very clear before the referendum. We are not a net exporting nation. We import a lot more than we export. So although our exports are cheaper, all of our imports are more expensive, thus leaving us worse off. Sterling as at is lowest point in 168 years, to say that sterling has been over valued longer than anyone on the planet has been alive is quite frankly ridiculous. To say that we needed Brexit to devalue it when WWI & WWII didn't do the trick, neither did leaving the gold standard or leaving the ERM or the 2008 financial crash, or the dot com bubble, or the great depression etc. is also a complete and utter fallacy. Not having to pay a contribution towards the EU, well that will save us £13 bn a year (Im being generous here, the IFS puts the figure at just £8 bn a year). But we are going to loose £66bn a year in tax revenue. We have already had to spend £70bn on monetary policy measures so far this year and we haven't even triggered article 50 yet. The Center for Economic Policy at the London School of Economics believes that the amount of foreign investment into the UK will drop by 22% over the next 10 years as a direct result of Brexit, costing us £2,200 per year in GDP. So now can you understand and accept that with lower tax revenues, rising import costs, monetary policy measures, and less foreign investment, that the UK is going to be significantly worse off after we leave the EU? Myths and opinions and I don't accept a word of it. Every one of the sources you quote are now backtracking on their original scare stories. Even the 66 billion figure is at least six months out of date and came from George Osbournes treasury. Enough said. I know you don't believe it, that's because you are not intelligent enough to differentiate between expert opinion and your opinion, but you have completely missed the point of the post. The poster I quoted asked who had said we would be poorer, I was pointing out the organisations who had said we would be poorer. Sorry my mistake. These days it seems intelligence only comes from Cambridge. Along with sanctimonious pricks of course." | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"As Brexit is now a reality I would have thought that those smart arses suffering from RRI (Repetitive Remoaning Injury) would have left the country by now! Turkey has been mentioned so as a prospective islamo-fascist EU member some fabsters here would clearly feel right at home amongst the burka-wearers. Failing that, Brussels is just two hours away on Eurostar, so what are you waiting for? Hardly anyone in Turkey wears a Burka, most don't even wear a headscarf. Turkey is years away from joining, if they do ever actually join. But even once they meet the prerequisites, any member can veto them joining. That included the UK until we voted to leave. What are you actually worried about by the thought of Turkey joining the EU? Why dont you want them to join? With regards to Remainers leaving the UK, I don't see why we should. 38% of the country voted to leave the EU, 62% didn't. Surely the people who don't want to be in the EU should be the ones to leave? Good idea. Why don't all those who want to be British but not in the EU fuck off to the Isle of Man, the Chanel Islands or better still the Falklands. Mind you they probably wouldn't let then in because, let's face, they've sold out their own country and people already. Many have said repeatedly on here that they "don't give shit that people will be poorer" and "it serves them right". They'd probably sell out the Falklands to the Argies and the Channel Islands to the French because once a perfidious traitor always a perfidious traitor. It's who they really are. Who said anyone would be poorer . ? I thought that we would be better off because of out exports being more competitive and not having to pay any subsidies to the EU. The estimated price rise on imports is estimated to be circa 3 % and we can hardly blame that on Brexit brcause Sterling was over valued in any event . Judging by the peformance of the Stock Exchamge confifence remains high and pensioners will be better off. The Treasury say we are going to be poorer, the World Bank says we are going to be poorer, the International Monetary Fund says we are going to be poorer, the Institute for Fiscal Studies says we are going to be poorer, PricewaterhouseCooper says we are going to be poorer, 90% of UK economists say we are going to be poorer, the London School of Economics says we are going to be poorer, The Bank of England says we are going to be poorer etc. etc. etc. This was all made very clear before the referendum. We are not a net exporting nation. We import a lot more than we export. So although our exports are cheaper, all of our imports are more expensive, thus leaving us worse off. Sterling as at is lowest point in 168 years, to say that sterling has been over valued longer than anyone on the planet has been alive is quite frankly ridiculous. To say that we needed Brexit to devalue it when WWI & WWII didn't do the trick, neither did leaving the gold standard or leaving the ERM or the 2008 financial crash, or the dot com bubble, or the great depression etc. is also a complete and utter fallacy. Not having to pay a contribution towards the EU, well that will save us £13 bn a year (Im being generous here, the IFS puts the figure at just £8 bn a year). But we are going to loose £66bn a year in tax revenue. We have already had to spend £70bn on monetary policy measures so far this year and we haven't even triggered article 50 yet. The Center for Economic Policy at the London School of Economics believes that the amount of foreign investment into the UK will drop by 22% over the next 10 years as a direct result of Brexit, costing us £2,200 per year in GDP. So now can you understand and accept that with lower tax revenues, rising import costs, monetary policy measures, and less foreign investment, that the UK is going to be significantly worse off after we leave the EU? Myths and opinions and I don't accept a word of it. Every one of the sources you quote are now backtracking on their original scare stories. Even the 66 billion figure is at least six months out of date and came from George Osbournes treasury. Enough said. I know you don't believe it, that's because you are not intelligent enough to differentiate between expert opinion and your opinion, but you have completely missed the point of the post. The poster I quoted asked who had said we would be poorer, I was pointing out the organisations who had said we would be poorer. Sorry my mistake. These days it seems intelligence only comes from Cambridge. Along with sanctimonious pricks of course. "Personally I'd rather be a sanctimonious prick than someone who was willing to sell his own people and country out for a load of meaningless slogans. If the £GBP hitting a 168 year low doesn't tell you that something just might be seriously wrong in the direction were taking then nothing will. The further we pursue this course the more so called project fear will become project reality. I know this, I suspect most leavers either know this or secretly fear this but, most importantly, the markets know this. In the end you can say what you like about sanctimonious remoaners, bloody experts and ruling elites but you can't fool the markets into believing a bad economic strategy is good one. Unless we change direction things will simply just get worse. At some point even the most knuckle headed leavers are going to have to take their head out of the sand and see what's actually going on. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"As Brexit is now a reality I would have thought that those smart arses suffering from RRI (Repetitive Remoaning Injury) would have left the country by now! Turkey has been mentioned so as a prospective islamo-fascist EU member some fabsters here would clearly feel right at home amongst the burka-wearers. Failing that, Brussels is just two hours away on Eurostar, so what are you waiting for? Hardly anyone in Turkey wears a Burka, most don't even wear a headscarf. Turkey is years away from joining, if they do ever actually join. But even once they meet the prerequisites, any member can veto them joining. That included the UK until we voted to leave. What are you actually worried about by the thought of Turkey joining the EU? Why dont you want them to join? With regards to Remainers leaving the UK, I don't see why we should. 38% of the country voted to leave the EU, 62% didn't. Surely the people who don't want to be in the EU should be the ones to leave? Good idea. Why don't all those who want to be British but not in the EU fuck off to the Isle of Man, the Chanel Islands or better still the Falklands. Mind you they probably wouldn't let then in because, let's face, they've sold out their own country and people already. Many have said repeatedly on here that they "don't give shit that people will be poorer" and "it serves them right". They'd probably sell out the Falklands to the Argies and the Channel Islands to the French because once a perfidious traitor always a perfidious traitor. It's who they really are. Who said anyone would be poorer . ? I thought that we would be better off because of out exports being more competitive and not having to pay any subsidies to the EU. The estimated price rise on imports is estimated to be circa 3 % and we can hardly blame that on Brexit brcause Sterling was over valued in any event . Judging by the peformance of the Stock Exchamge confifence remains high and pensioners will be better off. The Treasury say we are going to be poorer, the World Bank says we are going to be poorer, the International Monetary Fund says we are going to be poorer, the Institute for Fiscal Studies says we are going to be poorer, PricewaterhouseCooper says we are going to be poorer, 90% of UK economists say we are going to be poorer, the London School of Economics says we are going to be poorer, The Bank of England says we are going to be poorer etc. etc. etc. This was all made very clear before the referendum. We are not a net exporting nation. We import a lot more than we export. So although our exports are cheaper, all of our imports are more expensive, thus leaving us worse off. Sterling as at is lowest point in 168 years, to say that sterling has been over valued longer than anyone on the planet has been alive is quite frankly ridiculous. To say that we needed Brexit to devalue it when WWI & WWII didn't do the trick, neither did leaving the gold standard or leaving the ERM or the 2008 financial crash, or the dot com bubble, or the great depression etc. is also a complete and utter fallacy. Not having to pay a contribution towards the EU, well that will save us £13 bn a year (Im being generous here, the IFS puts the figure at just £8 bn a year). But we are going to loose £66bn a year in tax revenue. We have already had to spend £70bn on monetary policy measures so far this year and we haven't even triggered article 50 yet. The Center for Economic Policy at the London School of Economics believes that the amount of foreign investment into the UK will drop by 22% over the next 10 years as a direct result of Brexit, costing us £2,200 per year in GDP. So now can you understand and accept that with lower tax revenues, rising import costs, monetary policy measures, and less foreign investment, that the UK is going to be significantly worse off after we leave the EU? Myths and opinions and I don't accept a word of it. Every one of the sources you quote are now backtracking on their original scare stories. Even the 66 billion figure is at least six months out of date and came from George Osbournes treasury. Enough said. I know you don't believe it, that's because you are not intelligent enough to differentiate between expert opinion and your opinion, but you have completely missed the point of the post. The poster I quoted asked who had said we would be poorer, I was pointing out the organisations who had said we would be poorer. Sorry my mistake. These days it seems intelligence only comes from Cambridge. Along with sanctimonious pricks of course.
Personally I'd rather be a sanctimonious prick than someone who was willing to sell his own people and country out for a load of meaningless slogans.
If the £GBP hitting a 168 year low doesn't tell you that something just might be seriously wrong in the direction were taking then nothing will. The further we pursue this course the more so called project fear will become project reality. I know this, I suspect most leavers either know this or secretly fear this but, most importantly, the markets know this. In the end you can say what you like about sanctimonious remoaners, bloody experts and ruling elites but you can't fool the markets into believing a bad economic strategy is good one. Unless we change direction things will simply just get worse. At some point even the most knuckle headed leavers are going to have to take their head out of the sand and see what's actually going on."There is a sligbt problem with your statement . The stock market has hit an all time high and coutries will still need our goods regardless of whether we are in or out of the EU. Our exports are now a lot more competitive . We can just ignore the so called experts . None of them predicted the banking crisis . | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"As Brexit is now a reality I would have thought that those smart arses suffering from RRI (Repetitive Remoaning Injury) would have left the country by now! Turkey has been mentioned so as a prospective islamo-fascist EU member some fabsters here would clearly feel right at home amongst the burka-wearers. Failing that, Brussels is just two hours away on Eurostar, so what are you waiting for? Hardly anyone in Turkey wears a Burka, most don't even wear a headscarf. Turkey is years away from joining, if they do ever actually join. But even once they meet the prerequisites, any member can veto them joining. That included the UK until we voted to leave. What are you actually worried about by the thought of Turkey joining the EU? Why dont you want them to join? With regards to Remainers leaving the UK, I don't see why we should. 38% of the country voted to leave the EU, 62% didn't. Surely the people who don't want to be in the EU should be the ones to leave? Good idea. Why don't all those who want to be British but not in the EU fuck off to the Isle of Man, the Chanel Islands or better still the Falklands. Mind you they probably wouldn't let then in because, let's face, they've sold out their own country and people already. Many have said repeatedly on here that they "don't give shit that people will be poorer" and "it serves them right". They'd probably sell out the Falklands to the Argies and the Channel Islands to the French because once a perfidious traitor always a perfidious traitor. It's who they really are. Who said anyone would be poorer . ? I thought that we would be better off because of out exports being more competitive and not having to pay any subsidies to the EU. The estimated price rise on imports is estimated to be circa 3 % and we can hardly blame that on Brexit brcause Sterling was over valued in any event . Judging by the peformance of the Stock Exchamge confifence remains high and pensioners will be better off. The Treasury say we are going to be poorer, the World Bank says we are going to be poorer, the International Monetary Fund says we are going to be poorer, the Institute for Fiscal Studies says we are going to be poorer, PricewaterhouseCooper says we are going to be poorer, 90% of UK economists say we are going to be poorer, the London School of Economics says we are going to be poorer, The Bank of England says we are going to be poorer etc. etc. etc. This was all made very clear before the referendum. We are not a net exporting nation. We import a lot more than we export. So although our exports are cheaper, all of our imports are more expensive, thus leaving us worse off. Sterling as at is lowest point in 168 years, to say that sterling has been over valued longer than anyone on the planet has been alive is quite frankly ridiculous. To say that we needed Brexit to devalue it when WWI & WWII didn't do the trick, neither did leaving the gold standard or leaving the ERM or the 2008 financial crash, or the dot com bubble, or the great depression etc. is also a complete and utter fallacy. Not having to pay a contribution towards the EU, well that will save us £13 bn a year (Im being generous here, the IFS puts the figure at just £8 bn a year). But we are going to loose £66bn a year in tax revenue. We have already had to spend £70bn on monetary policy measures so far this year and we haven't even triggered article 50 yet. The Center for Economic Policy at the London School of Economics believes that the amount of foreign investment into the UK will drop by 22% over the next 10 years as a direct result of Brexit, costing us £2,200 per year in GDP. So now can you understand and accept that with lower tax revenues, rising import costs, monetary policy measures, and less foreign investment, that the UK is going to be significantly worse off after we leave the EU? Myths and opinions and I don't accept a word of it. Every one of the sources you quote are now backtracking on their original scare stories. Even the 66 billion figure is at least six months out of date and came from George Osbournes treasury. Enough said. I know you don't believe it, that's because you are not intelligent enough to differentiate between expert opinion and your opinion, but you have completely missed the point of the post. The poster I quoted asked who had said we would be poorer, I was pointing out the organisations who had said we would be poorer. Sorry my mistake. These days it seems intelligence only comes from Cambridge. Along with sanctimonious pricks of course.
Personally I'd rather be a sanctimonious prick than someone who was willing to sell his own people and country out for a load of meaningless slogans.
If the £GBP hitting a 168 year low doesn't tell you that something just might be seriously wrong in the direction were taking then nothing will. The further we pursue this course the more so called project fear will become project reality. I know this, I suspect most leavers either know this or secretly fear this but, most importantly, the markets know this. In the end you can say what you like about sanctimonious remoaners, bloody experts and ruling elites but you can't fool the markets into believing a bad economic strategy is good one. Unless we change direction things will simply just get worse. At some point even the most knuckle headed leavers are going to have to take their head out of the sand and see what's actually going on."They will never believe that they are the ones who have caused the upcoming disaster, no matter how bad it gets. They will continue to blame their problems on everyone else, like they are used to (foreigners, the EU). They will also come up with complete rubbish like "the £ was over valued" funny, I never heard them say that during the campaign. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"As Brexit is now a reality I would have thought that those smart arses suffering from RRI (Repetitive Remoaning Injury) would have left the country by now! Turkey has been mentioned so as a prospective islamo-fascist EU member some fabsters here would clearly feel right at home amongst the burka-wearers. Failing that, Brussels is just two hours away on Eurostar, so what are you waiting for? Hardly anyone in Turkey wears a Burka, most don't even wear a headscarf. Turkey is years away from joining, if they do ever actually join. But even once they meet the prerequisites, any member can veto them joining. That included the UK until we voted to leave. What are you actually worried about by the thought of Turkey joining the EU? Why dont you want them to join? With regards to Remainers leaving the UK, I don't see why we should. 38% of the country voted to leave the EU, 62% didn't. Surely the people who don't want to be in the EU should be the ones to leave? Good idea. Why don't all those who want to be British but not in the EU fuck off to the Isle of Man, the Chanel Islands or better still the Falklands. Mind you they probably wouldn't let then in because, let's face, they've sold out their own country and people already. Many have said repeatedly on here that they "don't give shit that people will be poorer" and "it serves them right". They'd probably sell out the Falklands to the Argies and the Channel Islands to the French because once a perfidious traitor always a perfidious traitor. It's who they really are. Who said anyone would be poorer . ? I thought that we would be better off because of out exports being more competitive and not having to pay any subsidies to the EU. The estimated price rise on imports is estimated to be circa 3 % and we can hardly blame that on Brexit brcause Sterling was over valued in any event . Judging by the peformance of the Stock Exchamge confifence remains high and pensioners will be better off. The Treasury say we are going to be poorer, the World Bank says we are going to be poorer, the International Monetary Fund says we are going to be poorer, the Institute for Fiscal Studies says we are going to be poorer, PricewaterhouseCooper says we are going to be poorer, 90% of UK economists say we are going to be poorer, the London School of Economics says we are going to be poorer, The Bank of England says we are going to be poorer etc. etc. etc. This was all made very clear before the referendum. We are not a net exporting nation. We import a lot more than we export. So although our exports are cheaper, all of our imports are more expensive, thus leaving us worse off. Sterling as at is lowest point in 168 years, to say that sterling has been over valued longer than anyone on the planet has been alive is quite frankly ridiculous. To say that we needed Brexit to devalue it when WWI & WWII didn't do the trick, neither did leaving the gold standard or leaving the ERM or the 2008 financial crash, or the dot com bubble, or the great depression etc. is also a complete and utter fallacy. Not having to pay a contribution towards the EU, well that will save us £13 bn a year (Im being generous here, the IFS puts the figure at just £8 bn a year). But we are going to loose £66bn a year in tax revenue. We have already had to spend £70bn on monetary policy measures so far this year and we haven't even triggered article 50 yet. The Center for Economic Policy at the London School of Economics believes that the amount of foreign investment into the UK will drop by 22% over the next 10 years as a direct result of Brexit, costing us £2,200 per year in GDP. So now can you understand and accept that with lower tax revenues, rising import costs, monetary policy measures, and less foreign investment, that the UK is going to be significantly worse off after we leave the EU? Myths and opinions and I don't accept a word of it. Every one of the sources you quote are now backtracking on their original scare stories. Even the 66 billion figure is at least six months out of date and came from George Osbournes treasury. Enough said. I know you don't believe it, that's because you are not intelligent enough to differentiate between expert opinion and your opinion, but you have completely missed the point of the post. The poster I quoted asked who had said we would be poorer, I was pointing out the organisations who had said we would be poorer. Sorry my mistake. These days it seems intelligence only comes from Cambridge. Along with sanctimonious pricks of course.
Personally I'd rather be a sanctimonious prick than someone who was willing to sell his own people and country out for a load of meaningless slogans.
If the £GBP hitting a 168 year low doesn't tell you that something just might be seriously wrong in the direction were taking then nothing will. The further we pursue this course the more so called project fear will become project reality. I know this, I suspect most leavers either know this or secretly fear this but, most importantly, the markets know this. In the end you can say what you like about sanctimonious remoaners, bloody experts and ruling elites but you can't fool the markets into believing a bad economic strategy is good one. Unless we change direction things will simply just get worse. At some point even the most knuckle headed leavers are going to have to take their head out of the sand and see what's actually going on.
They will never believe that they are the ones who have caused the upcoming disaster, no matter how bad it gets. They will continue to blame their problems on everyone else, like they are used to (foreigners, the EU).
They will also come up with complete rubbish like "the £ was over valued" funny, I never heard them say that during the campaign. "I am quite happy living up here in Scotland, very few "Foreigners" as you call them ample land, fantastic countryside, was going to say great value to the £, but in many cases most things are free anyway, free higher education, free child care entitlement, free personal care & nursing for all aged over 65, free prescriptions, we even have the minor ailment service now, where you can get behind counter medications free, oh god I have a headache, one min, will nip into boots, can I get some paracetamol please, what no charge? oh I see, we are in Scotland, its Free
Great place to live, | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"As Brexit is now a reality I would have thought that those smart arses suffering from RRI (Repetitive Remoaning Injury) would have left the country by now! Turkey has been mentioned so as a prospective islamo-fascist EU member some fabsters here would clearly feel right at home amongst the burka-wearers. Failing that, Brussels is just two hours away on Eurostar, so what are you waiting for? Hardly anyone in Turkey wears a Burka, most don't even wear a headscarf. Turkey is years away from joining, if they do ever actually join. But even once they meet the prerequisites, any member can veto them joining. That included the UK until we voted to leave. What are you actually worried about by the thought of Turkey joining the EU? Why dont you want them to join? With regards to Remainers leaving the UK, I don't see why we should. 38% of the country voted to leave the EU, 62% didn't. Surely the people who don't want to be in the EU should be the ones to leave? Good idea. Why don't all those who want to be British but not in the EU fuck off to the Isle of Man, the Chanel Islands or better still the Falklands. Mind you they probably wouldn't let then in because, let's face, they've sold out their own country and people already. Many have said repeatedly on here that they "don't give shit that people will be poorer" and "it serves them right". They'd probably sell out the Falklands to the Argies and the Channel Islands to the French because once a perfidious traitor always a perfidious traitor. It's who they really are. Who said anyone would be poorer . ? I thought that we would be better off because of out exports being more competitive and not having to pay any subsidies to the EU. The estimated price rise on imports is estimated to be circa 3 % and we can hardly blame that on Brexit brcause Sterling was over valued in any event . Judging by the peformance of the Stock Exchamge confifence remains high and pensioners will be better off. The Treasury say we are going to be poorer, the World Bank says we are going to be poorer, the International Monetary Fund says we are going to be poorer, the Institute for Fiscal Studies says we are going to be poorer, PricewaterhouseCooper says we are going to be poorer, 90% of UK economists say we are going to be poorer, the London School of Economics says we are going to be poorer, The Bank of England says we are going to be poorer etc. etc. etc. This was all made very clear before the referendum. We are not a net exporting nation. We import a lot more than we export. So although our exports are cheaper, all of our imports are more expensive, thus leaving us worse off. Sterling as at is lowest point in 168 years, to say that sterling has been over valued longer than anyone on the planet has been alive is quite frankly ridiculous. To say that we needed Brexit to devalue it when WWI & WWII didn't do the trick, neither did leaving the gold standard or leaving the ERM or the 2008 financial crash, or the dot com bubble, or the great depression etc. is also a complete and utter fallacy. Not having to pay a contribution towards the EU, well that will save us £13 bn a year (Im being generous here, the IFS puts the figure at just £8 bn a year). But we are going to loose £66bn a year in tax revenue. We have already had to spend £70bn on monetary policy measures so far this year and we haven't even triggered article 50 yet. The Center for Economic Policy at the London School of Economics believes that the amount of foreign investment into the UK will drop by 22% over the next 10 years as a direct result of Brexit, costing us £2,200 per year in GDP. So now can you understand and accept that with lower tax revenues, rising import costs, monetary policy measures, and less foreign investment, that the UK is going to be significantly worse off after we leave the EU? Myths and opinions and I don't accept a word of it. Every one of the sources you quote are now backtracking on their original scare stories. Even the 66 billion figure is at least six months out of date and came from George Osbournes treasury. Enough said. I know you don't believe it, that's because you are not intelligent enough to differentiate between expert opinion and your opinion, but you have completely missed the point of the post. The poster I quoted asked who had said we would be poorer, I was pointing out the organisations who had said we would be poorer. Sorry my mistake. These days it seems intelligence only comes from Cambridge. Along with sanctimonious pricks of course.
Personally I'd rather be a sanctimonious prick than someone who was willing to sell his own people and country out for a load of meaningless slogans.
If the £GBP hitting a 168 year low doesn't tell you that something just might be seriously wrong in the direction were taking then nothing will. The further we pursue this course the more so called project fear will become project reality. I know this, I suspect most leavers either know this or secretly fear this but, most importantly, the markets know this. In the end you can say what you like about sanctimonious remoaners, bloody experts and ruling elites but you can't fool the markets into believing a bad economic strategy is good one. Unless we change direction things will simply just get worse. At some point even the most knuckle headed leavers are going to have to take their head out of the sand and see what's actually going on.
They will never believe that they are the ones who have caused the upcoming disaster, no matter how bad it gets. They will continue to blame their problems on everyone else, like they are used to (foreigners, the EU).
They will also come up with complete rubbish like "the £ was over valued" funny, I never heard them say that during the campaign.
I am quite happy living up here in Scotland, very few "Foreigners" as you call them
ample land, fantastic countryside, was going to say great value to the £, but in many cases most things are free anyway, free higher education, free child care entitlement, free personal care & nursing for all aged over 65, free prescriptions, we even have the minor ailment service now, where you can get behind counter medications free, oh god I have a headache, one min, will nip into boots, can I get some paracetamol please, what no charge? oh I see, we are in Scotland, its Free
Great place to live, "Yes....all heavily subsidised by the tax payers this side of the border, good luck with all those freebies if you get independence, your annual deficit will put paid to all that free stuff. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
I wanted Brexit , I also want an independent England
But that's for another day
The point is , if we had voted to stay Thier would be none of this lets have another vote and whining ect !
Farrage Proved that when he Gracefully Accepted defeat at midnight before he woke up to find we had just gained our Indepence
Well nearly , we still need to leave the UK | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"As Brexit is now a reality I would have thought that those smart arses suffering from RRI (Repetitive Remoaning Injury) would have left the country by now! Turkey has been mentioned so as a prospective islamo-fascist EU member some fabsters here would clearly feel right at home amongst the burka-wearers. Failing that, Brussels is just two hours away on Eurostar, so what are you waiting for? Hardly anyone in Turkey wears a Burka, most don't even wear a headscarf. Turkey is years away from joining, if they do ever actually join. But even once they meet the prerequisites, any member can veto them joining. That included the UK until we voted to leave. What are you actually worried about by the thought of Turkey joining the EU? Why dont you want them to join? With regards to Remainers leaving the UK, I don't see why we should. 38% of the country voted to leave the EU, 62% didn't. Surely the people who don't want to be in the EU should be the ones to leave? Good idea. Why don't all those who want to be British but not in the EU fuck off to the Isle of Man, the Chanel Islands or better still the Falklands. Mind you they probably wouldn't let then in because, let's face, they've sold out their own country and people already. Many have said repeatedly on here that they "don't give shit that people will be poorer" and "it serves them right". They'd probably sell out the Falklands to the Argies and the Channel Islands to the French because once a perfidious traitor always a perfidious traitor. It's who they really are. Who said anyone would be poorer . ? I thought that we would be better off because of out exports being more competitive and not having to pay any subsidies to the EU. The estimated price rise on imports is estimated to be circa 3 % and we can hardly blame that on Brexit brcause Sterling was over valued in any event . Judging by the peformance of the Stock Exchamge confifence remains high and pensioners will be better off. The Treasury say we are going to be poorer, the World Bank says we are going to be poorer, the International Monetary Fund says we are going to be poorer, the Institute for Fiscal Studies says we are going to be poorer, PricewaterhouseCooper says we are going to be poorer, 90% of UK economists say we are going to be poorer, the London School of Economics says we are going to be poorer, The Bank of England says we are going to be poorer etc. etc. etc. This was all made very clear before the referendum. We are not a net exporting nation. We import a lot more than we export. So although our exports are cheaper, all of our imports are more expensive, thus leaving us worse off. Sterling as at is lowest point in 168 years, to say that sterling has been over valued longer than anyone on the planet has been alive is quite frankly ridiculous. To say that we needed Brexit to devalue it when WWI & WWII didn't do the trick, neither did leaving the gold standard or leaving the ERM or the 2008 financial crash, or the dot com bubble, or the great depression etc. is also a complete and utter fallacy. Not having to pay a contribution towards the EU, well that will save us £13 bn a year (Im being generous here, the IFS puts the figure at just £8 bn a year). But we are going to loose £66bn a year in tax revenue. We have already had to spend £70bn on monetary policy measures so far this year and we haven't even triggered article 50 yet. The Center for Economic Policy at the London School of Economics believes that the amount of foreign investment into the UK will drop by 22% over the next 10 years as a direct result of Brexit, costing us £2,200 per year in GDP. So now can you understand and accept that with lower tax revenues, rising import costs, monetary policy measures, and less foreign investment, that the UK is going to be significantly worse off after we leave the EU? Myths and opinions and I don't accept a word of it. Every one of the sources you quote are now backtracking on their original scare stories. Even the 66 billion figure is at least six months out of date and came from George Osbournes treasury. Enough said. I know you don't believe it, that's because you are not intelligent enough to differentiate between expert opinion and your opinion, but you have completely missed the point of the post. The poster I quoted asked who had said we would be poorer, I was pointing out the organisations who had said we would be poorer. Sorry my mistake. These days it seems intelligence only comes from Cambridge. Along with sanctimonious pricks of course.
Personally I'd rather be a sanctimonious prick than someone who was willing to sell his own people and country out for a load of meaningless slogans.
If the £GBP hitting a 168 year low doesn't tell you that something just might be seriously wrong in the direction were taking then nothing will. The further we pursue this course the more so called project fear will become project reality. I know this, I suspect most leavers either know this or secretly fear this but, most importantly, the markets know this. In the end you can say what you like about sanctimonious remoaners, bloody experts and ruling elites but you can't fool the markets into believing a bad economic strategy is good one. Unless we change direction things will simply just get worse. At some point even the most knuckle headed leavers are going to have to take their head out of the sand and see what's actually going on.
They will never believe that they are the ones who have caused the upcoming disaster, no matter how bad it gets. They will continue to blame their problems on everyone else, like they are used to (foreigners, the EU).
They will also come up with complete rubbish like "the £ was over valued" funny, I never heard them say that during the campaign.
I am quite happy living up here in Scotland, very few "Foreigners" as you call them
ample land, fantastic countryside, was going to say great value to the £, but in many cases most things are free anyway, free higher education, free child care entitlement, free personal care & nursing for all aged over 65, free prescriptions, we even have the minor ailment service now, where you can get behind counter medications free, oh god I have a headache, one min, will nip into boots, can I get some paracetamol please, what no charge? oh I see, we are in Scotland, its Free
Great place to live, "Only one sligbt problem. All the free items to which you refer are paid for by the uk tax payer. That is why Scotland will never vote to be independent . | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"As Brexit is now a reality I would have thought that those smart arses suffering from RRI (Repetitive Remoaning Injury) would have left the country by now! Turkey has been mentioned so as a prospective islamo-fascist EU member some fabsters here would clearly feel right at home amongst the burka-wearers. Failing that, Brussels is just two hours away on Eurostar, so what are you waiting for? Hardly anyone in Turkey wears a Burka, most don't even wear a headscarf. Turkey is years away from joining, if they do ever actually join. But even once they meet the prerequisites, any member can veto them joining. That included the UK until we voted to leave. What are you actually worried about by the thought of Turkey joining the EU? Why dont you want them to join? With regards to Remainers leaving the UK, I don't see why we should. 38% of the country voted to leave the EU, 62% didn't. Surely the people who don't want to be in the EU should be the ones to leave? Good idea. Why don't all those who want to be British but not in the EU fuck off to the Isle of Man, the Chanel Islands or better still the Falklands. Mind you they probably wouldn't let then in because, let's face, they've sold out their own country and people already. Many have said repeatedly on here that they "don't give shit that people will be poorer" and "it serves them right". They'd probably sell out the Falklands to the Argies and the Channel Islands to the French because once a perfidious traitor always a perfidious traitor. It's who they really are. Who said anyone would be poorer . ? I thought that we would be better off because of out exports being more competitive and not having to pay any subsidies to the EU. The estimated price rise on imports is estimated to be circa 3 % and we can hardly blame that on Brexit brcause Sterling was over valued in any event . Judging by the peformance of the Stock Exchamge confifence remains high and pensioners will be better off. The Treasury say we are going to be poorer, the World Bank says we are going to be poorer, the International Monetary Fund says we are going to be poorer, the Institute for Fiscal Studies says we are going to be poorer, PricewaterhouseCooper says we are going to be poorer, 90% of UK economists say we are going to be poorer, the London School of Economics says we are going to be poorer, The Bank of England says we are going to be poorer etc. etc. etc. This was all made very clear before the referendum. We are not a net exporting nation. We import a lot more than we export. So although our exports are cheaper, all of our imports are more expensive, thus leaving us worse off. Sterling as at is lowest point in 168 years, to say that sterling has been over valued longer than anyone on the planet has been alive is quite frankly ridiculous. To say that we needed Brexit to devalue it when WWI & WWII didn't do the trick, neither did leaving the gold standard or leaving the ERM or the 2008 financial crash, or the dot com bubble, or the great depression etc. is also a complete and utter fallacy. Not having to pay a contribution towards the EU, well that will save us £13 bn a year (Im being generous here, the IFS puts the figure at just £8 bn a year). But we are going to loose £66bn a year in tax revenue. We have already had to spend £70bn on monetary policy measures so far this year and we haven't even triggered article 50 yet. The Center for Economic Policy at the London School of Economics believes that the amount of foreign investment into the UK will drop by 22% over the next 10 years as a direct result of Brexit, costing us £2,200 per year in GDP. So now can you understand and accept that with lower tax revenues, rising import costs, monetary policy measures, and less foreign investment, that the UK is going to be significantly worse off after we leave the EU? Myths and opinions and I don't accept a word of it. Every one of the sources you quote are now backtracking on their original scare stories. Even the 66 billion figure is at least six months out of date and came from George Osbournes treasury. Enough said. I know you don't believe it, that's because you are not intelligent enough to differentiate between expert opinion and your opinion, but you have completely missed the point of the post. The poster I quoted asked who had said we would be poorer, I was pointing out the organisations who had said we would be poorer. Sorry my mistake. These days it seems intelligence only comes from Cambridge. Along with sanctimonious pricks of course.
Personally I'd rather be a sanctimonious prick than someone who was willing to sell his own people and country out for a load of meaningless slogans.
If the £GBP hitting a 168 year low doesn't tell you that something just might be seriously wrong in the direction were taking then nothing will. The further we pursue this course the more so called project fear will become project reality. I know this, I suspect most leavers either know this or secretly fear this but, most importantly, the markets know this. In the end you can say what you like about sanctimonious remoaners, bloody experts and ruling elites but you can't fool the markets into believing a bad economic strategy is good one. Unless we change direction things will simply just get worse. At some point even the most knuckle headed leavers are going to have to take their head out of the sand and see what's actually going on.
They will never believe that they are the ones who have caused the upcoming disaster, no matter how bad it gets. They will continue to blame their problems on everyone else, like they are used to (foreigners, the EU).
They will also come up with complete rubbish like "the £ was over valued" funny, I never heard them say that during the campaign.
I am quite happy living up here in Scotland, very few "Foreigners" as you call them
ample land, fantastic countryside, was going to say great value to the £, but in many cases most things are free anyway, free higher education, free child care entitlement, free personal care & nursing for all aged over 65, free prescriptions, we even have the minor ailment service now, where you can get behind counter medications free, oh god I have a headache, one min, will nip into boots, can I get some paracetamol please, what no charge? oh I see, we are in Scotland, its Free
Great place to live, Only one sligbt problem. All the free items to which you refer are paid for by the uk tax payer.
That is why Scotland will never vote to be independent . "That's why it Should be A UK referendum to help them on there way | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" That is why Scotland will never vote to be independent . That's why it Should be A UK referendum to help them on there way "eh, excuse me, who begged who to stay Was it not "Every" UK government party speaking on behalf of all their constituents (yourselves); and begged Scotland to remain part of the UK . looks to me like you will be on your knees begging again very soon indeed
. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"As Brexit is now a reality I would have thought that those smart arses suffering from RRI (Repetitive Remoaning Injury) would have left the country by now! Turkey has been mentioned so as a prospective islamo-fascist EU member some fabsters here would clearly feel right at home amongst the burka-wearers. Failing that, Brussels is just two hours away on Eurostar, so what are you waiting for? Hardly anyone in Turkey wears a Burka, most don't even wear a headscarf. Turkey is years away from joining, if they do ever actually join. But even once they meet the prerequisites, any member can veto them joining. That included the UK until we voted to leave. What are you actually worried about by the thought of Turkey joining the EU? Why dont you want them to join? With regards to Remainers leaving the UK, I don't see why we should. 38% of the country voted to leave the EU, 62% didn't. Surely the people who don't want to be in the EU should be the ones to leave? Good idea. Why don't all those who want to be British but not in the EU fuck off to the Isle of Man, the Chanel Islands or better still the Falklands. Mind you they probably wouldn't let then in because, let's face, they've sold out their own country and people already. Many have said repeatedly on here that they "don't give shit that people will be poorer" and "it serves them right". They'd probably sell out the Falklands to the Argies and the Channel Islands to the French because once a perfidious traitor always a perfidious traitor. It's who they really are. Who said anyone would be poorer . ? I thought that we would be better off because of out exports being more competitive and not having to pay any subsidies to the EU. The estimated price rise on imports is estimated to be circa 3 % and we can hardly blame that on Brexit brcause Sterling was over valued in any event . Judging by the peformance of the Stock Exchamge confifence remains high and pensioners will be better off. The Treasury say we are going to be poorer, the World Bank says we are going to be poorer, the International Monetary Fund says we are going to be poorer, the Institute for Fiscal Studies says we are going to be poorer, PricewaterhouseCooper says we are going to be poorer, 90% of UK economists say we are going to be poorer, the London School of Economics says we are going to be poorer, The Bank of England says we are going to be poorer etc. etc. etc. This was all made very clear before the referendum. We are not a net exporting nation. We import a lot more than we export. So although our exports are cheaper, all of our imports are more expensive, thus leaving us worse off. Sterling as at is lowest point in 168 years, to say that sterling has been over valued longer than anyone on the planet has been alive is quite frankly ridiculous. To say that we needed Brexit to devalue it when WWI & WWII didn't do the trick, neither did leaving the gold standard or leaving the ERM or the 2008 financial crash, or the dot com bubble, or the great depression etc. is also a complete and utter fallacy. Not having to pay a contribution towards the EU, well that will save us £13 bn a year (Im being generous here, the IFS puts the figure at just £8 bn a year). But we are going to loose £66bn a year in tax revenue. We have already had to spend £70bn on monetary policy measures so far this year and we haven't even triggered article 50 yet. The Center for Economic Policy at the London School of Economics believes that the amount of foreign investment into the UK will drop by 22% over the next 10 years as a direct result of Brexit, costing us £2,200 per year in GDP. So now can you understand and accept that with lower tax revenues, rising import costs, monetary policy measures, and less foreign investment, that the UK is going to be significantly worse off after we leave the EU? Myths and opinions and I don't accept a word of it. Every one of the sources you quote are now backtracking on their original scare stories. Even the 66 billion figure is at least six months out of date and came from George Osbournes treasury. Enough said. I know you don't believe it, that's because you are not intelligent enough to differentiate between expert opinion and your opinion, but you have completely missed the point of the post. The poster I quoted asked who had said we would be poorer, I was pointing out the organisations who had said we would be poorer. Sorry my mistake. These days it seems intelligence only comes from Cambridge. Along with sanctimonious pricks of course.
Personally I'd rather be a sanctimonious prick than someone who was willing to sell his own people and country out for a load of meaningless slogans.
If the £GBP hitting a 168 year low doesn't tell you that something just might be seriously wrong in the direction were taking then nothing will. The further we pursue this course the more so called project fear will become project reality. I know this, I suspect most leavers either know this or secretly fear this but, most importantly, the markets know this. In the end you can say what you like about sanctimonious remoaners, bloody experts and ruling elites but you can't fool the markets into believing a bad economic strategy is good one. Unless we change direction things will simply just get worse. At some point even the most knuckle headed leavers are going to have to take their head out of the sand and see what's actually going on. There is a sligbt problem with your statement . The stock market has hit an all time high and coutries will still need our goods regardless of whether we are in or out of the EU.
"This is true but also only to expected. As the value of £GBP falls then the value of companies that either trade or have large assets abroad goes up so naturally they become attractive to buy. But look a little deeper. If you convert the value of those shares into $USD they are actually now worth less than they were on 23 June. " Our exports are now a lot more competitive . " And our imports of food, fuel and raw materials for manufacturing is up. Massive devaluation of your currency, whilst often providing a short term boost, only ever leads to massive inflation. Harold Wilson learnt this after his "pound in your pocket" revalidation in the 60s. It took until Margaret Thatcher in 80s to finally bring it under control " We can just ignore the so called experts . None of them predicted the banking crisis . " Actually many of then did predict the banking crisis as far back as the mid 90s, unfortunately many of them we're call scaremongers. But, like predicting earth quakes, it's easy to say something will happen, it's much harder to say exactly when it's going to happen. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"As Brexit is now a reality I would have thought that those smart arses suffering from RRI (Repetitive Remoaning Injury) would have left the country by now! Turkey has been mentioned so as a prospective islamo-fascist EU member some fabsters here would clearly feel right at home amongst the burka-wearers. Failing that, Brussels is just two hours away on Eurostar, so what are you waiting for? Hardly anyone in Turkey wears a Burka, most don't even wear a headscarf. Turkey is years away from joining, if they do ever actually join. But even once they meet the prerequisites, any member can veto them joining. That included the UK until we voted to leave. What are you actually worried about by the thought of Turkey joining the EU? Why dont you want them to join? With regards to Remainers leaving the UK, I don't see why we should. 38% of the country voted to leave the EU, 62% didn't. Surely the people who don't want to be in the EU should be the ones to leave? Good idea. Why don't all those who want to be British but not in the EU fuck off to the Isle of Man, the Chanel Islands or better still the Falklands. Mind you they probably wouldn't let then in because, let's face, they've sold out their own country and people already. Many have said repeatedly on here that they "don't give shit that people will be poorer" and "it serves them right". They'd probably sell out the Falklands to the Argies and the Channel Islands to the French because once a perfidious traitor always a perfidious traitor. It's who they really are. Who said anyone would be poorer . ? I thought that we would be better off because of out exports being more competitive and not having to pay any subsidies to the EU. The estimated price rise on imports is estimated to be circa 3 % and we can hardly blame that on Brexit brcause Sterling was over valued in any event . Judging by the peformance of the Stock Exchamge confifence remains high and pensioners will be better off. The Treasury say we are going to be poorer, the World Bank says we are going to be poorer, the International Monetary Fund says we are going to be poorer, the Institute for Fiscal Studies says we are going to be poorer, PricewaterhouseCooper says we are going to be poorer, 90% of UK economists say we are going to be poorer, the London School of Economics says we are going to be poorer, The Bank of England says we are going to be poorer etc. etc. etc. This was all made very clear before the referendum. We are not a net exporting nation. We import a lot more than we export. So although our exports are cheaper, all of our imports are more expensive, thus leaving us worse off. Sterling as at is lowest point in 168 years, to say that sterling has been over valued longer than anyone on the planet has been alive is quite frankly ridiculous. To say that we needed Brexit to devalue it when WWI & WWII didn't do the trick, neither did leaving the gold standard or leaving the ERM or the 2008 financial crash, or the dot com bubble, or the great depression etc. is also a complete and utter fallacy. Not having to pay a contribution towards the EU, well that will save us £13 bn a year (Im being generous here, the IFS puts the figure at just £8 bn a year). But we are going to loose £66bn a year in tax revenue. We have already had to spend £70bn on monetary policy measures so far this year and we haven't even triggered article 50 yet. The Center for Economic Policy at the London School of Economics believes that the amount of foreign investment into the UK will drop by 22% over the next 10 years as a direct result of Brexit, costing us £2,200 per year in GDP. So now can you understand and accept that with lower tax revenues, rising import costs, monetary policy measures, and less foreign investment, that the UK is going to be significantly worse off after we leave the EU? Myths and opinions and I don't accept a word of it. Every one of the sources you quote are now backtracking on their original scare stories. Even the 66 billion figure is at least six months out of date and came from George Osbournes treasury. Enough said. I know you don't believe it, that's because you are not intelligent enough to differentiate between expert opinion and your opinion, but you have completely missed the point of the post. The poster I quoted asked who had said we would be poorer, I was pointing out the organisations who had said we would be poorer. Sorry my mistake. These days it seems intelligence only comes from Cambridge. Along with sanctimonious pricks of course.
Personally I'd rather be a sanctimonious prick
"If the cap fits, wear it, and you certainly wear it well Unleashed Kraken. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"As Brexit is now a reality I would have thought that those smart arses suffering from RRI (Repetitive Remoaning Injury) would have left the country by now! Turkey has been mentioned so as a prospective islamo-fascist EU member some fabsters here would clearly feel right at home amongst the burka-wearers. Failing that, Brussels is just two hours away on Eurostar, so what are you waiting for? Hardly anyone in Turkey wears a Burka, most don't even wear a headscarf. Turkey is years away from joining, if they do ever actually join. But even once they meet the prerequisites, any member can veto them joining. That included the UK until we voted to leave. What are you actually worried about by the thought of Turkey joining the EU? Why dont you want them to join? With regards to Remainers leaving the UK, I don't see why we should. 38% of the country voted to leave the EU, 62% didn't. Surely the people who don't want to be in the EU should be the ones to leave? Good idea. Why don't all those who want to be British but not in the EU fuck off to the Isle of Man, the Chanel Islands or better still the Falklands. Mind you they probably wouldn't let then in because, let's face, they've sold out their own country and people already. Many have said repeatedly on here that they "don't give shit that people will be poorer" and "it serves them right". They'd probably sell out the Falklands to the Argies and the Channel Islands to the French because once a perfidious traitor always a perfidious traitor. It's who they really are. Who said anyone would be poorer . ? I thought that we would be better off because of out exports being more competitive and not having to pay any subsidies to the EU. The estimated price rise on imports is estimated to be circa 3 % and we can hardly blame that on Brexit brcause Sterling was over valued in any event . Judging by the peformance of the Stock Exchamge confifence remains high and pensioners will be better off. The Treasury say we are going to be poorer, the World Bank says we are going to be poorer, the International Monetary Fund says we are going to be poorer, the Institute for Fiscal Studies says we are going to be poorer, PricewaterhouseCooper says we are going to be poorer, 90% of UK economists say we are going to be poorer, the London School of Economics says we are going to be poorer, The Bank of England says we are going to be poorer etc. etc. etc. This was all made very clear before the referendum. We are not a net exporting nation. We import a lot more than we export. So although our exports are cheaper, all of our imports are more expensive, thus leaving us worse off. Sterling as at is lowest point in 168 years, to say that sterling has been over valued longer than anyone on the planet has been alive is quite frankly ridiculous. To say that we needed Brexit to devalue it when WWI & WWII didn't do the trick, neither did leaving the gold standard or leaving the ERM or the 2008 financial crash, or the dot com bubble, or the great depression etc. is also a complete and utter fallacy. Not having to pay a contribution towards the EU, well that will save us £13 bn a year (Im being generous here, the IFS puts the figure at just £8 bn a year). But we are going to loose £66bn a year in tax revenue. We have already had to spend £70bn on monetary policy measures so far this year and we haven't even triggered article 50 yet. The Center for Economic Policy at the London School of Economics believes that the amount of foreign investment into the UK will drop by 22% over the next 10 years as a direct result of Brexit, costing us £2,200 per year in GDP. So now can you understand and accept that with lower tax revenues, rising import costs, monetary policy measures, and less foreign investment, that the UK is going to be significantly worse off after we leave the EU? Myths and opinions and I don't accept a word of it. Every one of the sources you quote are now backtracking on their original scare stories. Even the 66 billion figure is at least six months out of date and came from George Osbournes treasury. Enough said. I know you don't believe it, that's because you are not intelligent enough to differentiate between expert opinion and your opinion, but you have completely missed the point of the post. The poster I quoted asked who had said we would be poorer, I was pointing out the organisations who had said we would be poorer. Sorry my mistake. These days it seems intelligence only comes from Cambridge. Along with sanctimonious pricks of course.
Personally I'd rather be a sanctimonious prick
If the cap fits, wear it, and you certainly wear it well Unleashed Kraken. "Its not a cap he needs its a collar so his can be put back on his leash. | |||
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"One thing obvious from these threads is that those of Brexit disposition seem to been overcome by a form radical Brexitism in as much as the fanatical belief in Brexit supescedes all form of pragmatism. Experts will tell you that when you add 1 to 1, you get 2 and because this has been demonstrated many times before, this is actually what happens no matter how you could try to explain it away in any other way. Adding 1 to 1 will always make 2. Similarly it is inevitable that when confidence is lost in a country, its currency suffers. The fact that the £GBP is at an effective all time low against the $USD is an irrefutable indicator that there is little confidence in the direction that this Govt is taking the country. When your currency drops to an all time low it is as sure that night follows day, that inflation will be along in due course. This is the reaction to the action of the currency weakening. Radical Brexiters will deny these statements as much as they would deny that 1plus 1 equals 2 if it meant questioning the ideology behind Brexit. When inflation comes along, it is not the wealthy who suffer, but the ordinary working people who were targeted by vote Leave and promised a bright new future outside the EU and as David Davis had just recently said... "There will be no negative consequences." Regrettably there will be consequences and those consequences are already stating to be felt as inflation will start to bite even before A50 is triggered. If all of this is happening because of uncertainty in the few months since the vote and before A50 has even been triggered, what on earth can we expect in the minimum two year process before we actually exit the EU? Radical Brexiters would say that the EU will "punish" the UK for leaving because they like to use emotive language to stir up hatred and division. The reality is that the 27 remaining countries will do what is right for them to protect their individual and collective interests and why wouldn't they? The UK has unilaterally decided to leave and will be trying to get the best deal for them, surely it is logical that the 27 others would look to protect their own interest and have no need to use language that would try to make their population take up an anti British sentiment. I think certain Brexiters might have a bit more credibility if they were at least honest about what is happening and were open to proposals that would be best for everyone who lives in this country as opposed to being set on a course that is guided by ideological fanaticism. There must be other, non destructive ways that the country can deal with the issues of foreigners who you think: Make your laws Steal your benefits Steal your jobs Steal your houses Take your kids school places Fill your hospitals and Doctors surgeries " I voted LEAVE because I think it is the right thing to do, the EU has just got too big for its own boots. David Cameron asked for reform they said NO the UK had a vote and decided to leave. I have said before it will be hard for a few years but not forever and a lot can happen in the next 2 years. | |||
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"As Brexit is now a reality I would have thought that those smart arses suffering from RRI (Repetitive Remoaning Injury) would have left the country by now! Turkey has been mentioned so as a prospective islamo-fascist EU member some fabsters here would clearly feel right at home amongst the burka-wearers. Failing that, Brussels is just two hours away on Eurostar, so what are you waiting for? Hardly anyone in Turkey wears a Burka, most don't even wear a headscarf. Turkey is years away from joining, if they do ever actually join. But even once they meet the prerequisites, any member can veto them joining. That included the UK until we voted to leave. What are you actually worried about by the thought of Turkey joining the EU? Why dont you want them to join? With regards to Remainers leaving the UK, I don't see why we should. 38% of the country voted to leave the EU, 62% didn't. Surely the people who don't want to be in the EU should be the ones to leave? Good idea. Why don't all those who want to be British but not in the EU fuck off to the Isle of Man, the Chanel Islands or better still the Falklands. Mind you they probably wouldn't let then in because, let's face, they've sold out their own country and people already. Many have said repeatedly on here that they "don't give shit that people will be poorer" and "it serves them right". They'd probably sell out the Falklands to the Argies and the Channel Islands to the French because once a perfidious traitor always a perfidious traitor. It's who they really are. Who said anyone would be poorer . ? I thought that we would be better off because of out exports being more competitive and not having to pay any subsidies to the EU. The estimated price rise on imports is estimated to be circa 3 % and we can hardly blame that on Brexit brcause Sterling was over valued in any event . Judging by the peformance of the Stock Exchamge confifence remains high and pensioners will be better off. The Treasury say we are going to be poorer, the World Bank says we are going to be poorer, the International Monetary Fund says we are going to be poorer, the Institute for Fiscal Studies says we are going to be poorer, PricewaterhouseCooper says we are going to be poorer, 90% of UK economists say we are going to be poorer, the London School of Economics says we are going to be poorer, The Bank of England says we are going to be poorer etc. etc. etc. This was all made very clear before the referendum. We are not a net exporting nation. We import a lot more than we export. So although our exports are cheaper, all of our imports are more expensive, thus leaving us worse off. Sterling as at is lowest point in 168 years, to say that sterling has been over valued longer than anyone on the planet has been alive is quite frankly ridiculous. To say that we needed Brexit to devalue it when WWI & WWII didn't do the trick, neither did leaving the gold standard or leaving the ERM or the 2008 financial crash, or the dot com bubble, or the great depression etc. is also a complete and utter fallacy. Not having to pay a contribution towards the EU, well that will save us £13 bn a year (Im being generous here, the IFS puts the figure at just £8 bn a year). But we are going to loose £66bn a year in tax revenue. We have already had to spend £70bn on monetary policy measures so far this year and we haven't even triggered article 50 yet. The Center for Economic Policy at the London School of Economics believes that the amount of foreign investment into the UK will drop by 22% over the next 10 years as a direct result of Brexit, costing us £2,200 per year in GDP. So now can you understand and accept that with lower tax revenues, rising import costs, monetary policy measures, and less foreign investment, that the UK is going to be significantly worse off after we leave the EU? Myths and opinions and I don't accept a word of it. Every one of the sources you quote are now backtracking on their original scare stories. Even the 66 billion figure is at least six months out of date and came from George Osbournes treasury. Enough said. I know you don't believe it, that's because you are not intelligent enough to differentiate between expert opinion and your opinion, but you have completely missed the point of the post. The poster I quoted asked who had said we would be poorer, I was pointing out the organisations who had said we would be poorer. Sorry my mistake. These days it seems intelligence only comes from Cambridge. Along with sanctimonious pricks of course.
Personally I'd rather be a sanctimonious prick
If the cap fits, wear it, and you certainly wear it well Unleashed Kraken. "How unusual for a UKIP traitor to mis quote someone (perfidy). Like I actually said I'd rather be a sanctimonies prick than a seditious, perfidious traitor who's sold his people and his country out for a load of meaningless slogans and jingoistic flag waving. And that's being generous. We're still looking into how much money Uncle Dobby (AKA Vlad the dictator), a personal hero of yours from previous posts, has given to UKIP and leave either directly or indirectly. Quite frankly being called anything bad by a traitor to his country and people only makes me feel good. | |||
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"As Brexit is now a reality I would have thought that those smart arses suffering from RRI (Repetitive Remoaning Injury) would have left the country by now! Turkey has been mentioned so as a prospective islamo-fascist EU member some fabsters here would clearly feel right at home amongst the burka-wearers. Failing that, Brussels is just two hours away on Eurostar, so what are you waiting for? Hardly anyone in Turkey wears a Burka, most don't even wear a headscarf. Turkey is years away from joining, if they do ever actually join. But even once they meet the prerequisites, any member can veto them joining. That included the UK until we voted to leave. What are you actually worried about by the thought of Turkey joining the EU? Why dont you want them to join? With regards to Remainers leaving the UK, I don't see why we should. 38% of the country voted to leave the EU, 62% didn't. Surely the people who don't want to be in the EU should be the ones to leave? Good idea. Why don't all those who want to be British but not in the EU fuck off to the Isle of Man, the Chanel Islands or better still the Falklands. Mind you they probably wouldn't let then in because, let's face, they've sold out their own country and people already. Many have said repeatedly on here that they "don't give shit that people will be poorer" and "it serves them right". They'd probably sell out the Falklands to the Argies and the Channel Islands to the French because once a perfidious traitor always a perfidious traitor. It's who they really are. Who said anyone would be poorer . ? I thought that we would be better off because of out exports being more competitive and not having to pay any subsidies to the EU. The estimated price rise on imports is estimated to be circa 3 % and we can hardly blame that on Brexit brcause Sterling was over valued in any event . Judging by the peformance of the Stock Exchamge confifence remains high and pensioners will be better off. The Treasury say we are going to be poorer, the World Bank says we are going to be poorer, the International Monetary Fund says we are going to be poorer, the Institute for Fiscal Studies says we are going to be poorer, PricewaterhouseCooper says we are going to be poorer, 90% of UK economists say we are going to be poorer, the London School of Economics says we are going to be poorer, The Bank of England says we are going to be poorer etc. etc. etc. This was all made very clear before the referendum. We are not a net exporting nation. We import a lot more than we export. So although our exports are cheaper, all of our imports are more expensive, thus leaving us worse off. Sterling as at is lowest point in 168 years, to say that sterling has been over valued longer than anyone on the planet has been alive is quite frankly ridiculous. To say that we needed Brexit to devalue it when WWI & WWII didn't do the trick, neither did leaving the gold standard or leaving the ERM or the 2008 financial crash, or the dot com bubble, or the great depression etc. is also a complete and utter fallacy. Not having to pay a contribution towards the EU, well that will save us £13 bn a year (Im being generous here, the IFS puts the figure at just £8 bn a year). But we are going to loose £66bn a year in tax revenue. We have already had to spend £70bn on monetary policy measures so far this year and we haven't even triggered article 50 yet. The Center for Economic Policy at the London School of Economics believes that the amount of foreign investment into the UK will drop by 22% over the next 10 years as a direct result of Brexit, costing us £2,200 per year in GDP. So now can you understand and accept that with lower tax revenues, rising import costs, monetary policy measures, and less foreign investment, that the UK is going to be significantly worse off after we leave the EU? Myths and opinions and I don't accept a word of it. Every one of the sources you quote are now backtracking on their original scare stories. Even the 66 billion figure is at least six months out of date and came from George Osbournes treasury. Enough said. I know you don't believe it, that's because you are not intelligent enough to differentiate between expert opinion and your opinion, but you have completely missed the point of the post. The poster I quoted asked who had said we would be poorer, I was pointing out the organisations who had said we would be poorer. Sorry my mistake. These days it seems intelligence only comes from Cambridge. Along with sanctimonious pricks of course.
Personally I'd rather be a sanctimonious prick
If the cap fits, wear it, and you certainly wear it well Unleashed Kraken.
How unusual for a UKIP traitor to mis quote someone (perfidy).
Like I actually said I'd rather be a sanctimonies prick than a seditious, perfidious traitor who's sold his people and his country out for a load of meaningless slogans and jingoistic flag waving. And that's being generous. We're still looking into how much money Uncle Dobby (AKA Vlad the dictator), a personal hero of yours from previous posts, has given to UKIP and leave either directly or indirectly.
Quite frankly being called anything bad by a traitor to his country and people only makes me feel good." | |||
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"This thread has spiralled into the ridiculous. Whether people voted leave or remain, I'm sure they did it for reasons they felt best for the future of their families and the country as a whole. Anybody suggesting otherwise and escalating the language to the vitriolic needs to take a reality check." Absolutely, everyone had a right to vote in the way that they saw fit, it's a very personal thing and we all have individual reasons for the way we voted. Ours was simply financial, as significant importers who deal in the US$ we guessed there would be pressure on the pound so we voted accordingly. I'm watching with great interest at Boris Johnson, if what I read is correct he played both sides in his bid to become the leader of the Tories, a clever move....if it had worked. | |||
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"There will be a long period of things re-aligning. Imports will get more expensive, if the pound stays low or tariffs are applied. In my opinion, as always having worked in UK manufacturing, I think long term this is better. Imports more expensive, exports cheaper, will help us re-build UK based production of goods and food. Who exactly is going to do this re-aligning? Nissan are one of our biggest exporters and they are asking the UK Govt for guarantees that they wont be exposed to exporting tariffs. In this kind of environment, exactly who is going to rock up and start building cars, motorcycles, ships or other goods? I'm predicting that ALL of the foreign owned manufacturing companies in the UK will seek some form of financial reimbursement from the government regarding tariffs on exports to the EU and will all foreign owned manufacturing companies in the EU and EU owned companies in the EU seek some form of reimbursement from their governments regarding tariffs on exports to the UK do you think? That's a very good point, but do you have any instances of Chinese or Japanese companies who manufacture goods within the EU that export to Britiain? without looking no but what difference does it make where they come from? It matters because we are talking about foreign businesses who have chosen Britain as a manufacturing base almost solely to export within the EU, they did so because of two factors....Major UK government start up grants for factories to be built and set up in the 80's and 90's, and secondly because the EU itself offered financial incentives in areas of Britain that had in previous years seen devestating manufacturing closures. I'm interested to see what non EU companies manufacture goods within the rest of the EU that export to Britain....." There is a few, but for most of those the out put for the UK market is marginal compared to the output sold in mainland Europe. | |||
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" Sorry my mistake. These days it seems intelligence only comes from Cambridge. Along with sanctimonious pricks of course." Well there are a lot of intelligent people in Cambridge, thats why about 68% voted to Remain. I'm sorry if my comment upset you, but I am not going to apologise for being intelligent enough to differentiate between an expert opinion and an misinformed opinion. Anti-intellectualism will not benefit this country. | |||
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" Sorry my mistake. These days it seems intelligence only comes from Cambridge. Along with sanctimonious pricks of course. Well there are a lot of intelligent people in Cambridge, thats why about 68% voted to Remain. I'm sorry if my comment upset you, but I am not going to apologise for being intelligent enough to differentiate between an expert opinion and an misinformed opinion. Anti-intellectualism will not benefit this country. " Even if those expert opinions (like the IMF) are proved to be wrong time and time again eh. | |||
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" Sorry my mistake. These days it seems intelligence only comes from Cambridge. Along with sanctimonious pricks of course. Well there are a lot of intelligent people in Cambridge, thats why about 68% voted to Remain. I'm sorry if my comment upset you, but I am not going to apologise for being intelligent enough to differentiate between an expert opinion and an misinformed opinion. Anti-intellectualism will not benefit this country. Even if those expert opinions (like the IMF) are proved to be wrong time and time again eh. " And what is the track record of any of the organisations supporting Brexit? Oh, there aren't any. | |||
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" Sorry my mistake. These days it seems intelligence only comes from Cambridge. Along with sanctimonious pricks of course. Well there are a lot of intelligent people in Cambridge, thats why about 68% voted to Remain. I'm sorry if my comment upset you, but I am not going to apologise for being intelligent enough to differentiate between an expert opinion and an misinformed opinion. Anti-intellectualism will not benefit this country. " Intelligence is about listening to views and using your intellect to come to a decision. It is not about blindly following the advice of people who call themselves experts. Your definition suits a sheep better than an intelligent person. If humanity had persisted in following experts, we would still believe in a flat earth. | |||
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" Sorry my mistake. These days it seems intelligence only comes from Cambridge. Along with sanctimonious pricks of course. Well there are a lot of intelligent people in Cambridge, thats why about 68% voted to Remain. I'm sorry if my comment upset you, but I am not going to apologise for being intelligent enough to differentiate between an expert opinion and an misinformed opinion. Anti-intellectualism will not benefit this country. Even if those expert opinions (like the IMF) are proved to be wrong time and time again eh. And what is the track record of any of the organisations supporting Brexit? Oh, there aren't any. " JCB , an extremely successfull manufacturer . | |||
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" Sorry my mistake. These days it seems intelligence only comes from Cambridge. Along with sanctimonious pricks of course. Well there are a lot of intelligent people in Cambridge, thats why about 68% voted to Remain. I'm sorry if my comment upset you, but I am not going to apologise for being intelligent enough to differentiate between an expert opinion and an misinformed opinion. Anti-intellectualism will not benefit this country. " With regard to predicting the financial future , there are two types of person . 1. Those who do not know . 2. Those who do not know that they do not know . | |||
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"1. Those who do not know . 2. Those who do not know that they do not know ." There are also those who despite the evidence refuse to acknowledge the realities, because 'that is not what they want to hear'. | |||
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"1. Those who do not know . 2. Those who do not know that they do not know . There are also those who despite the evidence refuse to acknowledge the realities, because 'that is not what they want to hear'." And there are those who follow self-proclaimed economic "experts" without thinking for themselves. | |||
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"1. Those who do not know . 2. Those who do not know that they do not know . There are also those who despite the evidence refuse to acknowledge the realities, because 'that is not what they want to hear'. And there are those who follow self-proclaimed economic "experts" without thinking for themselves." What about people who think for themselves, and they come to the same answer as the experts? | |||
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"1. Those who do not know . 2. Those who do not know that they do not know . There are also those who despite the evidence refuse to acknowledge the realities, because 'that is not what they want to hear'. And there are those who follow self-proclaimed economic "experts" without thinking for themselves. What about people who think for themselves, and they come to the same answer as the experts?" Fine unless they continue to proclaim that those who disagreed with their opinion are stupid and that it is crazy not to agree with the opinion of economic "experts." Then, I would get tired of them. | |||
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"1. Those who do not know . 2. Those who do not know that they do not know . There are also those who despite the evidence refuse to acknowledge the realities, because 'that is not what they want to hear'. And there are those who follow self-proclaimed economic "experts" without thinking for themselves. What about people who think for themselves, and they come to the same answer as the experts? Fine unless they continue to proclaim that those who disagreed with their opinion are stupid and that it is crazy not to agree with the opinion of economic "experts." Then, I would get tired of them." Why do you think its smarter to disagree with experts? Not just economic experts, all experts. | |||
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"1. Those who do not know . 2. Those who do not know that they do not know . There are also those who despite the evidence refuse to acknowledge the realities, because 'that is not what they want to hear'. And there are those who follow self-proclaimed economic "experts" without thinking for themselves. What about people who think for themselves, and they come to the same answer as the experts? Fine unless they continue to proclaim that those who disagreed with their opinion are stupid and that it is crazy not to agree with the opinion of economic "experts." Then, I would get tired of them. Why do you think its smarter to disagree with experts? Not just economic experts, all experts." I don't. I think it is important to listen to what they have to say and to determine whether you agree with them. When I was a 13 year old schoolboy, our class was instructed to take part in an exercise. We were given a nominal £1,000 to invest in the stock market for a year, buying and selling shares. At the end of the year, our profit or loss was compared against major stock market investors and hedge fund managers. You know what? Over half the class beat the professional experts. I did, and I was mainly attracted to companies with names I liked. There is very little science involved in being an economic "expert." There are far too many variables involved for it to work in a predictable fashion. That is why I treat the opinions of economic experts with a great degree of caution. Your experience may be different. If so, you are welcome to leave your life savings with a professional hedge fund manager and feel confident that your fund will produce a healthy profit. Good luck. | |||
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"1. Those who do not know . 2. Those who do not know that they do not know . There are also those who despite the evidence refuse to acknowledge the realities, because 'that is not what they want to hear'. And there are those who follow self-proclaimed economic "experts" without thinking for themselves. What about people who think for themselves, and they come to the same answer as the experts? Fine unless they continue to proclaim that those who disagreed with their opinion are stupid and that it is crazy not to agree with the opinion of economic "experts." Then, I would get tired of them. Why do you think its smarter to disagree with experts? Not just economic experts, all experts. I don't. I think it is important to listen to what they have to say and to determine whether you agree with them. When I was a 13 year old schoolboy, our class was instructed to take part in an exercise. We were given a nominal £1,000 to invest in the stock market for a year, buying and selling shares. At the end of the year, our profit or loss was compared against major stock market investors and hedge fund managers. You know what? Over half the class beat the professional experts. I did, and I was mainly attracted to companies with names I liked. There is very little science involved in being an economic "expert." There are far too many variables involved for it to work in a predictable fashion. That is why I treat the opinions of economic experts with a great degree of caution. Your experience may be different. If so, you are welcome to leave your life savings with a professional hedge fund manager and feel confident that your fund will produce a healthy profit. Good luck." Maybe part of the problem is you don't know the difference between a stock trader and an economist? | |||
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"1. Those who do not know . 2. Those who do not know that they do not know . There are also those who despite the evidence refuse to acknowledge the realities, because 'that is not what they want to hear'. And there are those who follow self-proclaimed economic "experts" without thinking for themselves. What about people who think for themselves, and they come to the same answer as the experts? Fine unless they continue to proclaim that those who disagreed with their opinion are stupid and that it is crazy not to agree with the opinion of economic "experts." Then, I would get tired of them. Why do you think its smarter to disagree with experts? Not just economic experts, all experts. I don't. I think it is important to listen to what they have to say and to determine whether you agree with them. When I was a 13 year old schoolboy, our class was instructed to take part in an exercise. We were given a nominal £1,000 to invest in the stock market for a year, buying and selling shares. At the end of the year, our profit or loss was compared against major stock market investors and hedge fund managers. You know what? Over half the class beat the professional experts. I did, and I was mainly attracted to companies with names I liked. There is very little science involved in being an economic "expert." There are far too many variables involved for it to work in a predictable fashion. That is why I treat the opinions of economic experts with a great degree of caution. Your experience may be different. If so, you are welcome to leave your life savings with a professional hedge fund manager and feel confident that your fund will produce a healthy profit. Good luck. Maybe part of the problem is you don't know the difference between a stock trader and an economist? " And maybe you don't understand that economists are as crap at predicting the future as stock traders? | |||
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"1. Those who do not know . 2. Those who do not know that they do not know . There are also those who despite the evidence refuse to acknowledge the realities, because 'that is not what they want to hear'. And there are those who follow self-proclaimed economic "experts" without thinking for themselves. What about people who think for themselves, and they come to the same answer as the experts? Fine unless they continue to proclaim that those who disagreed with their opinion are stupid and that it is crazy not to agree with the opinion of economic "experts." Then, I would get tired of them. Why do you think its smarter to disagree with experts? Not just economic experts, all experts. I don't. I think it is important to listen to what they have to say and to determine whether you agree with them. When I was a 13 year old schoolboy, our class was instructed to take part in an exercise. We were given a nominal £1,000 to invest in the stock market for a year, buying and selling shares. At the end of the year, our profit or loss was compared against major stock market investors and hedge fund managers. You know what? Over half the class beat the professional experts. I did, and I was mainly attracted to companies with names I liked. There is very little science involved in being an economic "expert." There are far too many variables involved for it to work in a predictable fashion. That is why I treat the opinions of economic experts with a great degree of caution. Your experience may be different. If so, you are welcome to leave your life savings with a professional hedge fund manager and feel confident that your fund will produce a healthy profit. Good luck." Very true . Many professional fund managers actually under-perform the FTSE. As it is my hard earned cash, I prefer to rely on my own judgement and make decisions accordingly . If a so called expert gets it wrong , they have nothing to lose . If private individuals make decisions and get them wrong , it hits them in the pocket . For these reasons I do not pay too much attention to experts . If we take Neill Woodford who had an excellent track record at a major fund , we do not know if his success was due to skill or the fact that he struck lucky . | |||
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"1. Those who do not know . 2. Those who do not know that they do not know . There are also those who despite the evidence refuse to acknowledge the realities, because 'that is not what they want to hear'. And there are those who follow self-proclaimed economic "experts" without thinking for themselves. What about people who think for themselves, and they come to the same answer as the experts? Fine unless they continue to proclaim that those who disagreed with their opinion are stupid and that it is crazy not to agree with the opinion of economic "experts." Then, I would get tired of them. Why do you think its smarter to disagree with experts? Not just economic experts, all experts. I don't. I think it is important to listen to what they have to say and to determine whether you agree with them. When I was a 13 year old schoolboy, our class was instructed to take part in an exercise. We were given a nominal £1,000 to invest in the stock market for a year, buying and selling shares. At the end of the year, our profit or loss was compared against major stock market investors and hedge fund managers. You know what? Over half the class beat the professional experts. I did, and I was mainly attracted to companies with names I liked. There is very little science involved in being an economic "expert." There are far too many variables involved for it to work in a predictable fashion. That is why I treat the opinions of economic experts with a great degree of caution. Your experience may be different. If so, you are welcome to leave your life savings with a professional hedge fund manager and feel confident that your fund will produce a healthy profit. Good luck. Maybe part of the problem is you don't know the difference between a stock trader and an economist? And maybe you don't understand that economists are as crap at predicting the future as stock traders?" And NATO is crap at defence? The Royal Society are crap at research? MI5 & MI6 are crap at security? Greenpeace, friends of the earth, RSPB and WWF are crap at environmental issues? Obama is crap at world affairs, along with every NSA and CIA chief and all US secretaries of state since Carter? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"1. Those who do not know . 2. Those who do not know that they do not know . There are also those who despite the evidence refuse to acknowledge the realities, because 'that is not what they want to hear'. And there are those who follow self-proclaimed economic "experts" without thinking for themselves. What about people who think for themselves, and they come to the same answer as the experts? Fine unless they continue to proclaim that those who disagreed with their opinion are stupid and that it is crazy not to agree with the opinion of economic "experts." Then, I would get tired of them. Why do you think its smarter to disagree with experts? Not just economic experts, all experts. I don't. I think it is important to listen to what they have to say and to determine whether you agree with them. When I was a 13 year old schoolboy, our class was instructed to take part in an exercise. We were given a nominal £1,000 to invest in the stock market for a year, buying and selling shares. At the end of the year, our profit or loss was compared against major stock market investors and hedge fund managers. You know what? Over half the class beat the professional experts. I did, and I was mainly attracted to companies with names I liked. There is very little science involved in being an economic "expert." There are far too many variables involved for it to work in a predictable fashion. That is why I treat the opinions of economic experts with a great degree of caution. Your experience may be different. If so, you are welcome to leave your life savings with a professional hedge fund manager and feel confident that your fund will produce a healthy profit. Good luck. Maybe part of the problem is you don't know the difference between a stock trader and an economist? And maybe you don't understand that economists are as crap at predicting the future as stock traders? And NATO is crap at defence? The Royal Society are crap at research? MI5 & MI6 are crap at security? Greenpeace, friends of the earth, RSPB and WWF are crap at environmental issues? Obama is crap at world affairs, along with every NSA and CIA chief and all US secretaries of state since Carter? " . If you say so CLCC ?? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"1. Those who do not know . 2. Those who do not know that they do not know . There are also those who despite the evidence refuse to acknowledge the realities, because 'that is not what they want to hear'. And there are those who follow self-proclaimed economic "experts" without thinking for themselves. What about people who think for themselves, and they come to the same answer as the experts? Fine unless they continue to proclaim that those who disagreed with their opinion are stupid and that it is crazy not to agree with the opinion of economic "experts." Then, I would get tired of them. Why do you think its smarter to disagree with experts? Not just economic experts, all experts. I don't. I think it is important to listen to what they have to say and to determine whether you agree with them. When I was a 13 year old schoolboy, our class was instructed to take part in an exercise. We were given a nominal £1,000 to invest in the stock market for a year, buying and selling shares. At the end of the year, our profit or loss was compared against major stock market investors and hedge fund managers. You know what? Over half the class beat the professional experts. I did, and I was mainly attracted to companies with names I liked. There is very little science involved in being an economic "expert." There are far too many variables involved for it to work in a predictable fashion. That is why I treat the opinions of economic experts with a great degree of caution. Your experience may be different. If so, you are welcome to leave your life savings with a professional hedge fund manager and feel confident that your fund will produce a healthy profit. Good luck. Maybe part of the problem is you don't know the difference between a stock trader and an economist? And maybe you don't understand that economists are as crap at predicting the future as stock traders? And NATO is crap at defence? The Royal Society are crap at research? MI5 & MI6 are crap at security? Greenpeace, friends of the earth, RSPB and WWF are crap at environmental issues? Obama is crap at world affairs, along with every NSA and CIA chief and all US secretaries of state since Carter? " No. I have not said that at all. I merely had the audacity to point out that economics is not an accurate field. There are too many variables involved. Change one underlying assumption just one little bit, add in or take away another, project it X years into the future and it becomes meaningless. The Pope is an expert but I do not follow his teachings. I prefer to use my life experience to make my decisions. If you prefer to follow blindly, that is fine, but please allow people who prefer to make their own assessments of an issue a little respect. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"1. Those who do not know . 2. Those who do not know that they do not know . There are also those who despite the evidence refuse to acknowledge the realities, because 'that is not what they want to hear'. And there are those who follow self-proclaimed economic "experts" without thinking for themselves. What about people who think for themselves, and they come to the same answer as the experts? Fine unless they continue to proclaim that those who disagreed with their opinion are stupid and that it is crazy not to agree with the opinion of economic "experts." Then, I would get tired of them. Why do you think its smarter to disagree with experts? Not just economic experts, all experts. I don't. I think it is important to listen to what they have to say and to determine whether you agree with them. When I was a 13 year old schoolboy, our class was instructed to take part in an exercise. We were given a nominal £1,000 to invest in the stock market for a year, buying and selling shares. At the end of the year, our profit or loss was compared against major stock market investors and hedge fund managers. You know what? Over half the class beat the professional experts. I did, and I was mainly attracted to companies with names I liked. There is very little science involved in being an economic "expert." There are far too many variables involved for it to work in a predictable fashion. That is why I treat the opinions of economic experts with a great degree of caution. Your experience may be different. If so, you are welcome to leave your life savings with a professional hedge fund manager and feel confident that your fund will produce a healthy profit. Good luck. Maybe part of the problem is you don't know the difference between a stock trader and an economist? And maybe you don't understand that economists are as crap at predicting the future as stock traders? And NATO is crap at defence? The Royal Society are crap at research? MI5 & MI6 are crap at security? Greenpeace, friends of the earth, RSPB and WWF are crap at environmental issues? Obama is crap at world affairs, along with every NSA and CIA chief and all US secretaries of state since Carter? " NATO? Let's see what happens when they get a real test. Which could be possible sooner than you think. Royal Society? Not really my subject but they did try to knock John Harrison for his prize money.
MI5 and MI6. Yes to be fair they do a pretty good job and are head and shoulders above any other security service in Europe. They need Britain more than Britain needs them.
Greenpeace the RSPB and WWF are political organisations so anything they say must be taken with a bucket full of salt.
Obama is crap at world affairs? Yep we agree.
All the US secretary's of state since Carter? Quite a sweeping statement that one. Do you really know what Alexander Haig, George Schultz, James Baker, Lawrence Eagleburger, Warren Christopher, Madelaine Albright, Colin Powell, and Condoleza Rice think? Or are you just quoting Hilary and John Kerry and winging it for the rest? | |||
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" Sorry my mistake. These days it seems intelligence only comes from Cambridge. Along with sanctimonious pricks of course. Well there are a lot of intelligent people in Cambridge, thats why about 68% voted to Remain. I'm sorry if my comment upset you, but I am not going to apologise for being intelligent enough to differentiate between an expert opinion and an misinformed opinion. Anti-intellectualism will not benefit this country. Intelligence is about listening to views and using your intellect to come to a decision. It is not about blindly following the advice of people who call themselves experts. Your definition suits a sheep better than an intelligent person. If humanity had persisted in following experts, we would still believe in a flat earth." Eratosthenes, a Mathematics expert, predicted and worked out and proved the earth was round, not flat, in about 250bc. The orb (as in ord & scepter) has been used to represent the earth since before ancient Egyptian times. In fact the only people who have ever thought the world was flat, not round, in over 10,000 years were those who wouldn't listen to the experts. You could have gone to all the four corners of the Earth at any time in history and everyone would have told you the world was round, unless they stubbornly refused to listen to the experts and the proof that was before their eyes. Do you believe the world is flat? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"1. Those who do not know . 2. Those who do not know that they do not know . There are also those who despite the evidence refuse to acknowledge the realities, because 'that is not what they want to hear'. And there are those who follow self-proclaimed economic "experts" without thinking for themselves. What about people who think for themselves, and they come to the same answer as the experts? Fine unless they continue to proclaim that those who disagreed with their opinion are stupid and that it is crazy not to agree with the opinion of economic "experts." Then, I would get tired of them. Why do you think its smarter to disagree with experts? Not just economic experts, all experts. I don't. I think it is important to listen to what they have to say and to determine whether you agree with them. When I was a 13 year old schoolboy, our class was instructed to take part in an exercise. We were given a nominal £1,000 to invest in the stock market for a year, buying and selling shares. At the end of the year, our profit or loss was compared against major stock market investors and hedge fund managers. You know what? Over half the class beat the professional experts. I did, and I was mainly attracted to companies with names I liked. There is very little science involved in being an economic "expert." There are far too many variables involved for it to work in a predictable fashion. That is why I treat the opinions of economic experts with a great degree of caution. Your experience may be different. If so, you are welcome to leave your life savings with a professional hedge fund manager and feel confident that your fund will produce a healthy profit. Good luck. Maybe part of the problem is you don't know the difference between a stock trader and an economist? And maybe you don't understand that economists are as crap at predicting the future as stock traders? And NATO is crap at defence? The Royal Society are crap at research? MI5 & MI6 are crap at security? Greenpeace, friends of the earth, RSPB and WWF are crap at environmental issues? Obama is crap at world affairs, along with every NSA and CIA chief and all US secretaries of state since Carter? No. I have not said that at all. I merely had the audacity to point out that economics is not an accurate field. There are too many variables involved. Change one underlying assumption just one little bit, add in or take away another, project it X years into the future and it becomes meaningless. The Pope is an expert but I do not follow his teachings. I prefer to use my life experience to make my decisions. If you prefer to follow blindly, that is fine, but please allow people who prefer to make their own assessments of an issue a little respect. " So why did you reject all of their advice then? I don't follow blindly, but I do take what they have to say very seriously, especially when the overwhelming majority of experts from such a wide variety of fields mention above that Brexit is a really bad idea for so many reasons. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"1. Those who do not know . 2. Those who do not know that they do not know . There are also those who despite the evidence refuse to acknowledge the realities, because 'that is not what they want to hear'. And there are those who follow self-proclaimed economic "experts" without thinking for themselves. What about people who think for themselves, and they come to the same answer as the experts? Fine unless they continue to proclaim that those who disagreed with their opinion are stupid and that it is crazy not to agree with the opinion of economic "experts." Then, I would get tired of them. Why do you think its smarter to disagree with experts? Not just economic experts, all experts. I don't. I think it is important to listen to what they have to say and to determine whether you agree with them. When I was a 13 year old schoolboy, our class was instructed to take part in an exercise. We were given a nominal £1,000 to invest in the stock market for a year, buying and selling shares. At the end of the year, our profit or loss was compared against major stock market investors and hedge fund managers. You know what? Over half the class beat the professional experts. I did, and I was mainly attracted to companies with names I liked. There is very little science involved in being an economic "expert." There are far too many variables involved for it to work in a predictable fashion. That is why I treat the opinions of economic experts with a great degree of caution. Your experience may be different. If so, you are welcome to leave your life savings with a professional hedge fund manager and feel confident that your fund will produce a healthy profit. Good luck. Maybe part of the problem is you don't know the difference between a stock trader and an economist? And maybe you don't understand that economists are as crap at predicting the future as stock traders? And NATO is crap at defence? The Royal Society are crap at research? MI5 & MI6 are crap at security? Greenpeace, friends of the earth, RSPB and WWF are crap at environmental issues? Obama is crap at world affairs, along with every NSA and CIA chief and all US secretaries of state since Carter? NATO? Let's see what happens when they get a real test. Which could be possible sooner than you think. Royal Society? Not really my subject but they did try to knock John Harrison for his prize money.
MI5 and MI6. Yes to be fair they do a pretty good job and are head and shoulders above any other security service in Europe. They need Britain more than Britain needs them.
Greenpeace the RSPB and WWF are political organisations so anything they say must be taken with a bucket full of salt.
Obama is crap at world affairs? Yep we agree.
All the US secretary's of state since Carter? Quite a sweeping statement that one. Do you really know what Alexander Haig, George Schultz, James Baker, Lawrence Eagleburger, Warren Christopher, Madelaine Albright, Colin Powell, and Condoleza Rice think? Or are you just quoting Hilary and John Kerry and winging it for the rest?"Well they signed a joint letter. Greenpeace the RSPB and WWF are not political organisations, they are environmental organisations. Their point has kind of been proven already though hasn't it with the Department of Energy and climate change being disbanded. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"1. Those who do not know . 2. Those who do not know that they do not know . There are also those who despite the evidence refuse to acknowledge the realities, because 'that is not what they want to hear'. And there are those who follow self-proclaimed economic "experts" without thinking for themselves. What about people who think for themselves, and they come to the same answer as the experts? Fine unless they continue to proclaim that those who disagreed with their opinion are stupid and that it is crazy not to agree with the opinion of economic "experts." Then, I would get tired of them. Why do you think its smarter to disagree with experts? Not just economic experts, all experts. I don't. I think it is important to listen to what they have to say and to determine whether you agree with them. When I was a 13 year old schoolboy, our class was instructed to take part in an exercise. We were given a nominal £1,000 to invest in the stock market for a year, buying and selling shares. At the end of the year, our profit or loss was compared against major stock market investors and hedge fund managers. You know what? Over half the class beat the professional experts. I did, and I was mainly attracted to companies with names I liked. There is very little science involved in being an economic "expert." There are far too many variables involved for it to work in a predictable fashion. That is why I treat the opinions of economic experts with a great degree of caution. Your experience may be different. If so, you are welcome to leave your life savings with a professional hedge fund manager and feel confident that your fund will produce a healthy profit. Good luck. Maybe part of the problem is you don't know the difference between a stock trader and an economist? And maybe you don't understand that economists are as crap at predicting the future as stock traders? And NATO is crap at defence? The Royal Society are crap at research? MI5 & MI6 are crap at security? Greenpeace, friends of the earth, RSPB and WWF are crap at environmental issues? Obama is crap at world affairs, along with every NSA and CIA chief and all US secretaries of state since Carter? NATO? Let's see what happens when they get a real test. Which could be possible sooner than you think. Royal Society? Not really my subject but they did try to knock John Harrison for his prize money.
MI5 and MI6. Yes to be fair they do a pretty good job and are head and shoulders above any other security service in Europe. They need Britain more than Britain needs them.
Greenpeace the RSPB and WWF are political organisations so anything they say must be taken with a bucket full of salt.
Obama is crap at world affairs? Yep we agree.
All the US secretary's of state since Carter? Quite a sweeping statement that one. Do you really know what Alexander Haig, George Schultz, James Baker, Lawrence Eagleburger, Warren Christopher, Madelaine Albright, Colin Powell, and Condoleza Rice think? Or are you just quoting Hilary and John Kerry and winging it for the rest?
Well they signed a joint letter. Greenpeace the RSPB and WWF are not political organisations, they are environmental organisations. Their point has kind of been proven already though hasn't it with the Department of Energy and climate change being disbanded."Who signed a joint letter? and for what? Alexander Haig maybe? oops sorry he died in 2010. Lawrence Eagleburger perhaps? oops sorry he died in 2011. I suppose it could have been Warren Christopher oops nope he died in 2011 as well. Before making sweeping statements check you facts. Dead men don't sign letters. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"1. Those who do not know . 2. Those who do not know that they do not know . There are also those who despite the evidence refuse to acknowledge the realities, because 'that is not what they want to hear'. And there are those who follow self-proclaimed economic "experts" without thinking for themselves. What about people who think for themselves, and they come to the same answer as the experts? Fine unless they continue to proclaim that those who disagreed with their opinion are stupid and that it is crazy not to agree with the opinion of economic "experts." Then, I would get tired of them. Why do you think its smarter to disagree with experts? Not just economic experts, all experts. I don't. I think it is important to listen to what they have to say and to determine whether you agree with them. When I was a 13 year old schoolboy, our class was instructed to take part in an exercise. We were given a nominal £1,000 to invest in the stock market for a year, buying and selling shares. At the end of the year, our profit or loss was compared against major stock market investors and hedge fund managers. You know what? Over half the class beat the professional experts. I did, and I was mainly attracted to companies with names I liked. There is very little science involved in being an economic "expert." There are far too many variables involved for it to work in a predictable fashion. That is why I treat the opinions of economic experts with a great degree of caution. Your experience may be different. If so, you are welcome to leave your life savings with a professional hedge fund manager and feel confident that your fund will produce a healthy profit. Good luck. Maybe part of the problem is you don't know the difference between a stock trader and an economist? And maybe you don't understand that economists are as crap at predicting the future as stock traders? And NATO is crap at defence? The Royal Society are crap at research? MI5 & MI6 are crap at security? Greenpeace, friends of the earth, RSPB and WWF are crap at environmental issues? Obama is crap at world affairs, along with every NSA and CIA chief and all US secretaries of state since Carter? NATO? Let's see what happens when they get a real test. Which could be possible sooner than you think. Royal Society? Not really my subject but they did try to knock John Harrison for his prize money.
MI5 and MI6. Yes to be fair they do a pretty good job and are head and shoulders above any other security service in Europe. They need Britain more than Britain needs them.
Greenpeace the RSPB and WWF are political organisations so anything they say must be taken with a bucket full of salt.
Obama is crap at world affairs? Yep we agree.
All the US secretary's of state since Carter? Quite a sweeping statement that one. Do you really know what Alexander Haig, George Schultz, James Baker, Lawrence Eagleburger, Warren Christopher, Madelaine Albright, Colin Powell, and Condoleza Rice think? Or are you just quoting Hilary and John Kerry and winging it for the rest?
Well they signed a joint letter. Greenpeace the RSPB and WWF are not political organisations, they are environmental organisations. Their point has kind of been proven already though hasn't it with the Department of Energy and climate change being disbanded.
Who signed a joint letter? and for what?
Alexander Haig maybe? oops sorry he died in 2010.
Lawrence Eagleburger perhaps? oops sorry he died in 2011.
I suppose it could have been Warren Christopher oops nope he died in 2011 as well.
Before making sweeping statements check you facts.
Dead men don't sign letters."Some military experts have the government sign their name on their behalf for Remain without their consent, as was the case with ex military commander Michael Rose. Michael Rose then came out to back the Leave campaign. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"1. Those who do not know . 2. Those who do not know that they do not know . There are also those who despite the evidence refuse to acknowledge the realities, because 'that is not what they want to hear'. And there are those who follow self-proclaimed economic "experts" without thinking for themselves. What about people who think for themselves, and they come to the same answer as the experts? Fine unless they continue to proclaim that those who disagreed with their opinion are stupid and that it is crazy not to agree with the opinion of economic "experts." Then, I would get tired of them. Why do you think its smarter to disagree with experts? Not just economic experts, all experts. I don't. I think it is important to listen to what they have to say and to determine whether you agree with them. When I was a 13 year old schoolboy, our class was instructed to take part in an exercise. We were given a nominal £1,000 to invest in the stock market for a year, buying and selling shares. At the end of the year, our profit or loss was compared against major stock market investors and hedge fund managers. You know what? Over half the class beat the professional experts. I did, and I was mainly attracted to companies with names I liked. There is very little science involved in being an economic "expert." There are far too many variables involved for it to work in a predictable fashion. That is why I treat the opinions of economic experts with a great degree of caution. Your experience may be different. If so, you are welcome to leave your life savings with a professional hedge fund manager and feel confident that your fund will produce a healthy profit. Good luck. Maybe part of the problem is you don't know the difference between a stock trader and an economist? And maybe you don't understand that economists are as crap at predicting the future as stock traders? And NATO is crap at defence? The Royal Society are crap at research? MI5 & MI6 are crap at security? Greenpeace, friends of the earth, RSPB and WWF are crap at environmental issues? Obama is crap at world affairs, along with every NSA and CIA chief and all US secretaries of state since Carter? NATO? Let's see what happens when they get a real test. Which could be possible sooner than you think. Royal Society? Not really my subject but they did try to knock John Harrison for his prize money.
MI5 and MI6. Yes to be fair they do a pretty good job and are head and shoulders above any other security service in Europe. They need Britain more than Britain needs them.
Greenpeace the RSPB and WWF are political organisations so anything they say must be taken with a bucket full of salt.
Obama is crap at world affairs? Yep we agree.
All the US secretary's of state since Carter? Quite a sweeping statement that one. Do you really know what Alexander Haig, George Schultz, James Baker, Lawrence Eagleburger, Warren Christopher, Madelaine Albright, Colin Powell, and Condoleza Rice think? Or are you just quoting Hilary and John Kerry and winging it for the rest?
Well they signed a joint letter. Greenpeace the RSPB and WWF are not political organisations, they are environmental organisations. Their point has kind of been proven already though hasn't it with the Department of Energy and climate change being disbanded.
Who signed a joint letter? and for what?
Alexander Haig maybe? oops sorry he died in 2010.
Lawrence Eagleburger perhaps? oops sorry he died in 2011.
I suppose it could have been Warren Christopher oops nope he died in 2011 as well.
Before making sweeping statements check you facts.
Dead men don't sign letters."Every living Secretary of state since carter, happy now? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"1. Those who do not know . 2. Those who do not know that they do not know . There are also those who despite the evidence refuse to acknowledge the realities, because 'that is not what they want to hear'. And there are those who follow self-proclaimed economic "experts" without thinking for themselves. What about people who think for themselves, and they come to the same answer as the experts? Fine unless they continue to proclaim that those who disagreed with their opinion are stupid and that it is crazy not to agree with the opinion of economic "experts." Then, I would get tired of them. Why do you think its smarter to disagree with experts? Not just economic experts, all experts. I don't. I think it is important to listen to what they have to say and to determine whether you agree with them. When I was a 13 year old schoolboy, our class was instructed to take part in an exercise. We were given a nominal £1,000 to invest in the stock market for a year, buying and selling shares. At the end of the year, our profit or loss was compared against major stock market investors and hedge fund managers. You know what? Over half the class beat the professional experts. I did, and I was mainly attracted to companies with names I liked. There is very little science involved in being an economic "expert." There are far too many variables involved for it to work in a predictable fashion. That is why I treat the opinions of economic experts with a great degree of caution. Your experience may be different. If so, you are welcome to leave your life savings with a professional hedge fund manager and feel confident that your fund will produce a healthy profit. Good luck. Maybe part of the problem is you don't know the difference between a stock trader and an economist? And maybe you don't understand that economists are as crap at predicting the future as stock traders? And NATO is crap at defence? The Royal Society are crap at research? MI5 & MI6 are crap at security? Greenpeace, friends of the earth, RSPB and WWF are crap at environmental issues? Obama is crap at world affairs, along with every NSA and CIA chief and all US secretaries of state since Carter? NATO? Let's see what happens when they get a real test. Which could be possible sooner than you think. Royal Society? Not really my subject but they did try to knock John Harrison for his prize money.
MI5 and MI6. Yes to be fair they do a pretty good job and are head and shoulders above any other security service in Europe. They need Britain more than Britain needs them.
Greenpeace the RSPB and WWF are political organisations so anything they say must be taken with a bucket full of salt.
Obama is crap at world affairs? Yep we agree.
All the US secretary's of state since Carter? Quite a sweeping statement that one. Do you really know what Alexander Haig, George Schultz, James Baker, Lawrence Eagleburger, Warren Christopher, Madelaine Albright, Colin Powell, and Condoleza Rice think? Or are you just quoting Hilary and John Kerry and winging it for the rest?
Well they signed a joint letter. Greenpeace the RSPB and WWF are not political organisations, they are environmental organisations. Their point has kind of been proven already though hasn't it with the Department of Energy and climate change being disbanded.
Who signed a joint letter? and for what?
Alexander Haig maybe? oops sorry he died in 2010.
Lawrence Eagleburger perhaps? oops sorry he died in 2011.
I suppose it could have been Warren Christopher oops nope he died in 2011 as well.
Before making sweeping statements check you facts.
Dead men don't sign letters.
Every living Secretary of state since carter, happy now? "Then why didn't you say that in the first place? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"1. Those who do not know . 2. Those who do not know that they do not know . There are also those who despite the evidence refuse to acknowledge the realities, because 'that is not what they want to hear'. And there are those who follow self-proclaimed economic "experts" without thinking for themselves. What about people who think for themselves, and they come to the same answer as the experts? Fine unless they continue to proclaim that those who disagreed with their opinion are stupid and that it is crazy not to agree with the opinion of economic "experts." Then, I would get tired of them. Why do you think its smarter to disagree with experts? Not just economic experts, all experts. I don't. I think it is important to listen to what they have to say and to determine whether you agree with them. When I was a 13 year old schoolboy, our class was instructed to take part in an exercise. We were given a nominal £1,000 to invest in the stock market for a year, buying and selling shares. At the end of the year, our profit or loss was compared against major stock market investors and hedge fund managers. You know what? Over half the class beat the professional experts. I did, and I was mainly attracted to companies with names I liked. There is very little science involved in being an economic "expert." There are far too many variables involved for it to work in a predictable fashion. That is why I treat the opinions of economic experts with a great degree of caution. Your experience may be different. If so, you are welcome to leave your life savings with a professional hedge fund manager and feel confident that your fund will produce a healthy profit. Good luck. Maybe part of the problem is you don't know the difference between a stock trader and an economist? And maybe you don't understand that economists are as crap at predicting the future as stock traders? And NATO is crap at defence? The Royal Society are crap at research? MI5 & MI6 are crap at security? Greenpeace, friends of the earth, RSPB and WWF are crap at environmental issues? Obama is crap at world affairs, along with every NSA and CIA chief and all US secretaries of state since Carter? NATO? Let's see what happens when they get a real test. Which could be possible sooner than you think. Royal Society? Not really my subject but they did try to knock John Harrison for his prize money.
MI5 and MI6. Yes to be fair they do a pretty good job and are head and shoulders above any other security service in Europe. They need Britain more than Britain needs them.
Greenpeace the RSPB and WWF are political organisations so anything they say must be taken with a bucket full of salt.
Obama is crap at world affairs? Yep we agree.
All the US secretary's of state since Carter? Quite a sweeping statement that one. Do you really know what Alexander Haig, George Schultz, James Baker, Lawrence Eagleburger, Warren Christopher, Madelaine Albright, Colin Powell, and Condoleza Rice think? Or are you just quoting Hilary and John Kerry and winging it for the rest?
Well they signed a joint letter. Greenpeace the RSPB and WWF are not political organisations, they are environmental organisations. Their point has kind of been proven already though hasn't it with the Department of Energy and climate change being disbanded.
Who signed a joint letter? and for what?
Alexander Haig maybe? oops sorry he died in 2010.
Lawrence Eagleburger perhaps? oops sorry he died in 2011.
I suppose it could have been Warren Christopher oops nope he died in 2011 as well.
Before making sweeping statements check you facts.
Dead men don't sign letters.
Every living Secretary of state since carter, happy now?
Then why didn't you say that in the first place?
"Because as was the case during the referendum the Remain campaign deliberately try to mislead people. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"1. Those who do not know . 2. Those who do not know that they do not know . There are also those who despite the evidence refuse to acknowledge the realities, because 'that is not what they want to hear'. And there are those who follow self-proclaimed economic "experts" without thinking for themselves. What about people who think for themselves, and they come to the same answer as the experts? Fine unless they continue to proclaim that those who disagreed with their opinion are stupid and that it is crazy not to agree with the opinion of economic "experts." Then, I would get tired of them. Why do you think its smarter to disagree with experts? Not just economic experts, all experts. I don't. I think it is important to listen to what they have to say and to determine whether you agree with them. When I was a 13 year old schoolboy, our class was instructed to take part in an exercise. We were given a nominal £1,000 to invest in the stock market for a year, buying and selling shares. At the end of the year, our profit or loss was compared against major stock market investors and hedge fund managers. You know what? Over half the class beat the professional experts. I did, and I was mainly attracted to companies with names I liked. There is very little science involved in being an economic "expert." There are far too many variables involved for it to work in a predictable fashion. That is why I treat the opinions of economic experts with a great degree of caution. Your experience may be different. If so, you are welcome to leave your life savings with a professional hedge fund manager and feel confident that your fund will produce a healthy profit. Good luck. Maybe part of the problem is you don't know the difference between a stock trader and an economist? And maybe you don't understand that economists are as crap at predicting the future as stock traders? And NATO is crap at defence? The Royal Society are crap at research? MI5 & MI6 are crap at security? Greenpeace, friends of the earth, RSPB and WWF are crap at environmental issues? Obama is crap at world affairs, along with every NSA and CIA chief and all US secretaries of state since Carter? NATO? Let's see what happens when they get a real test. Which could be possible sooner than you think. Royal Society? Not really my subject but they did try to knock John Harrison for his prize money.
MI5 and MI6. Yes to be fair they do a pretty good job and are head and shoulders above any other security service in Europe. They need Britain more than Britain needs them.
Greenpeace the RSPB and WWF are political organisations so anything they say must be taken with a bucket full of salt.
Obama is crap at world affairs? Yep we agree.
All the US secretary's of state since Carter? Quite a sweeping statement that one. Do you really know what Alexander Haig, George Schultz, James Baker, Lawrence Eagleburger, Warren Christopher, Madelaine Albright, Colin Powell, and Condoleza Rice think? Or are you just quoting Hilary and John Kerry and winging it for the rest?
Well they signed a joint letter. Greenpeace the RSPB and WWF are not political organisations, they are environmental organisations. Their point has kind of been proven already though hasn't it with the Department of Energy and climate change being disbanded.
Who signed a joint letter? and for what?
Alexander Haig maybe? oops sorry he died in 2010.
Lawrence Eagleburger perhaps? oops sorry he died in 2011.
I suppose it could have been Warren Christopher oops nope he died in 2011 as well.
Before making sweeping statements check you facts.
Dead men don't sign letters.
Every living Secretary of state since carter, happy now?
Then why didn't you say that in the first place?
Because as was the case during the referendum the Remain campaign deliberately try to mislead people. "I think you will find both camps were guilty of misleading the electorate on many occasions.... | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"1. Those who do not know . 2. Those who do not know that they do not know . There are also those who despite the evidence refuse to acknowledge the realities, because 'that is not what they want to hear'. And there are those who follow self-proclaimed economic "experts" without thinking for themselves. What about people who think for themselves, and they come to the same answer as the experts? Fine unless they continue to proclaim that those who disagreed with their opinion are stupid and that it is crazy not to agree with the opinion of economic "experts." Then, I would get tired of them. Why do you think its smarter to disagree with experts? Not just economic experts, all experts. I don't. I think it is important to listen to what they have to say and to determine whether you agree with them. When I was a 13 year old schoolboy, our class was instructed to take part in an exercise. We were given a nominal £1,000 to invest in the stock market for a year, buying and selling shares. At the end of the year, our profit or loss was compared against major stock market investors and hedge fund managers. You know what? Over half the class beat the professional experts. I did, and I was mainly attracted to companies with names I liked. There is very little science involved in being an economic "expert." There are far too many variables involved for it to work in a predictable fashion. That is why I treat the opinions of economic experts with a great degree of caution. Your experience may be different. If so, you are welcome to leave your life savings with a professional hedge fund manager and feel confident that your fund will produce a healthy profit. Good luck. Maybe part of the problem is you don't know the difference between a stock trader and an economist? And maybe you don't understand that economists are as crap at predicting the future as stock traders? And NATO is crap at defence? The Royal Society are crap at research? MI5 & MI6 are crap at security? Greenpeace, friends of the earth, RSPB and WWF are crap at environmental issues? Obama is crap at world affairs, along with every NSA and CIA chief and all US secretaries of state since Carter? NATO? Let's see what happens when they get a real test. Which could be possible sooner than you think. Royal Society? Not really my subject but they did try to knock John Harrison for his prize money.
MI5 and MI6. Yes to be fair they do a pretty good job and are head and shoulders above any other security service in Europe. They need Britain more than Britain needs them.
Greenpeace the RSPB and WWF are political organisations so anything they say must be taken with a bucket full of salt.
Obama is crap at world affairs? Yep we agree.
All the US secretary's of state since Carter? Quite a sweeping statement that one. Do you really know what Alexander Haig, George Schultz, James Baker, Lawrence Eagleburger, Warren Christopher, Madelaine Albright, Colin Powell, and Condoleza Rice think? Or are you just quoting Hilary and John Kerry and winging it for the rest?
Well they signed a joint letter. Greenpeace the RSPB and WWF are not political organisations, they are environmental organisations. Their point has kind of been proven already though hasn't it with the Department of Energy and climate change being disbanded.
Who signed a joint letter? and for what?
Alexander Haig maybe? oops sorry he died in 2010.
Lawrence Eagleburger perhaps? oops sorry he died in 2011.
I suppose it could have been Warren Christopher oops nope he died in 2011 as well.
Before making sweeping statements check you facts.
Dead men don't sign letters.
Every living Secretary of state since carter, happy now?
Then why didn't you say that in the first place?
Because as was the case during the referendum the Remain campaign deliberately try to mislead people.
I think you will find both camps were guilty of misleading the electorate on many occasions...."Yes they were but some did,nt fall for it like the 17.2 million that voted leave. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"1. Those who do not know . 2. Those who do not know that they do not know . There are also those who despite the evidence refuse to acknowledge the realities, because 'that is not what they want to hear'. And there are those who follow self-proclaimed economic "experts" without thinking for themselves. What about people who think for themselves, and they come to the same answer as the experts? Fine unless they continue to proclaim that those who disagreed with their opinion are stupid and that it is crazy not to agree with the opinion of economic "experts." Then, I would get tired of them. Why do you think its smarter to disagree with experts? Not just economic experts, all experts. I don't. I think it is important to listen to what they have to say and to determine whether you agree with them. When I was a 13 year old schoolboy, our class was instructed to take part in an exercise. We were given a nominal £1,000 to invest in the stock market for a year, buying and selling shares. At the end of the year, our profit or loss was compared against major stock market investors and hedge fund managers. You know what? Over half the class beat the professional experts. I did, and I was mainly attracted to companies with names I liked. There is very little science involved in being an economic "expert." There are far too many variables involved for it to work in a predictable fashion. That is why I treat the opinions of economic experts with a great degree of caution. Your experience may be different. If so, you are welcome to leave your life savings with a professional hedge fund manager and feel confident that your fund will produce a healthy profit. Good luck. Maybe part of the problem is you don't know the difference between a stock trader and an economist? And maybe you don't understand that economists are as crap at predicting the future as stock traders? And NATO is crap at defence? The Royal Society are crap at research? MI5 & MI6 are crap at security? Greenpeace, friends of the earth, RSPB and WWF are crap at environmental issues? Obama is crap at world affairs, along with every NSA and CIA chief and all US secretaries of state since Carter? NATO? Let's see what happens when they get a real test. Which could be possible sooner than you think. Royal Society? Not really my subject but they did try to knock John Harrison for his prize money.
MI5 and MI6. Yes to be fair they do a pretty good job and are head and shoulders above any other security service in Europe. They need Britain more than Britain needs them.
Greenpeace the RSPB and WWF are political organisations so anything they say must be taken with a bucket full of salt.
Obama is crap at world affairs? Yep we agree.
All the US secretary's of state since Carter? Quite a sweeping statement that one. Do you really know what Alexander Haig, George Schultz, James Baker, Lawrence Eagleburger, Warren Christopher, Madelaine Albright, Colin Powell, and Condoleza Rice think? Or are you just quoting Hilary and John Kerry and winging it for the rest?
Well they signed a joint letter. Greenpeace the RSPB and WWF are not political organisations, they are environmental organisations. Their point has kind of been proven already though hasn't it with the Department of Energy and climate change being disbanded.
Who signed a joint letter? and for what?
Alexander Haig maybe? oops sorry he died in 2010.
Lawrence Eagleburger perhaps? oops sorry he died in 2011.
I suppose it could have been Warren Christopher oops nope he died in 2011 as well.
Before making sweeping statements check you facts.
Dead men don't sign letters.
Every living Secretary of state since carter, happy now?
Then why didn't you say that in the first place?
Because as was the case during the referendum the Remain campaign deliberately try to mislead people.
I think you will find both camps were guilty of misleading the electorate on many occasions....
Yes they were but some did,nt fall for it like the 17.2 million that voted leave. "I think you will find that many of the people who voted leave DID fall for some of the nonsense coming from the leave camp, in particular some of the outright lies that certain Leave advocates told the electorate about immigration. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"1. Those who do not know . 2. Those who do not know that they do not know . There are also those who despite the evidence refuse to acknowledge the realities, because 'that is not what they want to hear'. And there are those who follow self-proclaimed economic "experts" without thinking for themselves. What about people who think for themselves, and they come to the same answer as the experts? Fine unless they continue to proclaim that those who disagreed with their opinion are stupid and that it is crazy not to agree with the opinion of economic "experts." Then, I would get tired of them. Why do you think its smarter to disagree with experts? Not just economic experts, all experts. I don't. I think it is important to listen to what they have to say and to determine whether you agree with them. When I was a 13 year old schoolboy, our class was instructed to take part in an exercise. We were given a nominal £1,000 to invest in the stock market for a year, buying and selling shares. At the end of the year, our profit or loss was compared against major stock market investors and hedge fund managers. You know what? Over half the class beat the professional experts. I did, and I was mainly attracted to companies with names I liked. There is very little science involved in being an economic "expert." There are far too many variables involved for it to work in a predictable fashion. That is why I treat the opinions of economic experts with a great degree of caution. Your experience may be different. If so, you are welcome to leave your life savings with a professional hedge fund manager and feel confident that your fund will produce a healthy profit. Good luck. Maybe part of the problem is you don't know the difference between a stock trader and an economist? And maybe you don't understand that economists are as crap at predicting the future as stock traders? And NATO is crap at defence? The Royal Society are crap at research? MI5 & MI6 are crap at security? Greenpeace, friends of the earth, RSPB and WWF are crap at environmental issues? Obama is crap at world affairs, along with every NSA and CIA chief and all US secretaries of state since Carter? NATO? Let's see what happens when they get a real test. Which could be possible sooner than you think. Royal Society? Not really my subject but they did try to knock John Harrison for his prize money.
MI5 and MI6. Yes to be fair they do a pretty good job and are head and shoulders above any other security service in Europe. They need Britain more than Britain needs them.
Greenpeace the RSPB and WWF are political organisations so anything they say must be taken with a bucket full of salt.
Obama is crap at world affairs? Yep we agree.
All the US secretary's of state since Carter? Quite a sweeping statement that one. Do you really know what Alexander Haig, George Schultz, James Baker, Lawrence Eagleburger, Warren Christopher, Madelaine Albright, Colin Powell, and Condoleza Rice think? Or are you just quoting Hilary and John Kerry and winging it for the rest?
Well they signed a joint letter. Greenpeace the RSPB and WWF are not political organisations, they are environmental organisations. Their point has kind of been proven already though hasn't it with the Department of Energy and climate change being disbanded.
Who signed a joint letter? and for what?
Alexander Haig maybe? oops sorry he died in 2010.
Lawrence Eagleburger perhaps? oops sorry he died in 2011.
I suppose it could have been Warren Christopher oops nope he died in 2011 as well.
Before making sweeping statements check you facts.
Dead men don't sign letters.
Every living Secretary of state since carter, happy now?
Then why didn't you say that in the first place?
Because as was the case during the referendum the Remain campaign deliberately try to mislead people.
I think you will find both camps were guilty of misleading the electorate on many occasions....
Yes they were but some did,nt fall for it like the 17.2 million that voted leave.
I think you will find that many of the people who voted leave DID fall for some of the nonsense coming from the leave camp, in particular some of the outright lies that certain Leave advocates told the electorate about immigration.
"You could be right but so far I have not heard one person who admitted they voted leave say they wished they had vote remain. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"1. Those who do not know . 2. Those who do not know that they do not know . There are also those who despite the evidence refuse to acknowledge the realities, because 'that is not what they want to hear'. And there are those who follow self-proclaimed economic "experts" without thinking for themselves. What about people who think for themselves, and they come to the same answer as the experts? Fine unless they continue to proclaim that those who disagreed with their opinion are stupid and that it is crazy not to agree with the opinion of economic "experts." Then, I would get tired of them. Why do you think its smarter to disagree with experts? Not just economic experts, all experts. I don't. I think it is important to listen to what they have to say and to determine whether you agree with them. When I was a 13 year old schoolboy, our class was instructed to take part in an exercise. We were given a nominal £1,000 to invest in the stock market for a year, buying and selling shares. At the end of the year, our profit or loss was compared against major stock market investors and hedge fund managers. You know what? Over half the class beat the professional experts. I did, and I was mainly attracted to companies with names I liked. There is very little science involved in being an economic "expert." There are far too many variables involved for it to work in a predictable fashion. That is why I treat the opinions of economic experts with a great degree of caution. Your experience may be different. If so, you are welcome to leave your life savings with a professional hedge fund manager and feel confident that your fund will produce a healthy profit. Good luck. Maybe part of the problem is you don't know the difference between a stock trader and an economist? And maybe you don't understand that economists are as crap at predicting the future as stock traders? And NATO is crap at defence? The Royal Society are crap at research? MI5 & MI6 are crap at security? Greenpeace, friends of the earth, RSPB and WWF are crap at environmental issues? Obama is crap at world affairs, along with every NSA and CIA chief and all US secretaries of state since Carter? NATO? Let's see what happens when they get a real test. Which could be possible sooner than you think. Royal Society? Not really my subject but they did try to knock John Harrison for his prize money.
MI5 and MI6. Yes to be fair they do a pretty good job and are head and shoulders above any other security service in Europe. They need Britain more than Britain needs them.
Greenpeace the RSPB and WWF are political organisations so anything they say must be taken with a bucket full of salt.
Obama is crap at world affairs? Yep we agree.
All the US secretary's of state since Carter? Quite a sweeping statement that one. Do you really know what Alexander Haig, George Schultz, James Baker, Lawrence Eagleburger, Warren Christopher, Madelaine Albright, Colin Powell, and Condoleza Rice think? Or are you just quoting Hilary and John Kerry and winging it for the rest?
Well they signed a joint letter. Greenpeace the RSPB and WWF are not political organisations, they are environmental organisations. Their point has kind of been proven already though hasn't it with the Department of Energy and climate change being disbanded.
Who signed a joint letter? and for what?
Alexander Haig maybe? oops sorry he died in 2010.
Lawrence Eagleburger perhaps? oops sorry he died in 2011.
I suppose it could have been Warren Christopher oops nope he died in 2011 as well.
Before making sweeping statements check you facts.
Dead men don't sign letters.
Every living Secretary of state since carter, happy now?
Then why didn't you say that in the first place?
Because as was the case during the referendum the Remain campaign deliberately try to mislead people.
I think you will find both camps were guilty of misleading the electorate on many occasions....
Yes they were but some did,nt fall for it like the 17.2 million that voted leave.
I think you will find that many of the people who voted leave DID fall for some of the nonsense coming from the leave camp, in particular some of the outright lies that certain Leave advocates told the electorate about immigration.
"Ah, so the Brexiters voted to leave because they were stupid but the Remainers voted to stay because they were not? You are insulting the intelligence of many UK citizens. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"1. Those who do not know . 2. Those who do not know that they do not know . There are also those who despite the evidence refuse to acknowledge the realities, because 'that is not what they want to hear'. And there are those who follow self-proclaimed economic "experts" without thinking for themselves. What about people who think for themselves, and they come to the same answer as the experts? Fine unless they continue to proclaim that those who disagreed with their opinion are stupid and that it is crazy not to agree with the opinion of economic "experts." Then, I would get tired of them. Why do you think its smarter to disagree with experts? Not just economic experts, all experts. I don't. I think it is important to listen to what they have to say and to determine whether you agree with them. When I was a 13 year old schoolboy, our class was instructed to take part in an exercise. We were given a nominal £1,000 to invest in the stock market for a year, buying and selling shares. At the end of the year, our profit or loss was compared against major stock market investors and hedge fund managers. You know what? Over half the class beat the professional experts. I did, and I was mainly attracted to companies with names I liked. There is very little science involved in being an economic "expert." There are far too many variables involved for it to work in a predictable fashion. That is why I treat the opinions of economic experts with a great degree of caution. Your experience may be different. If so, you are welcome to leave your life savings with a professional hedge fund manager and feel confident that your fund will produce a healthy profit. Good luck. Maybe part of the problem is you don't know the difference between a stock trader and an economist? And maybe you don't understand that economists are as crap at predicting the future as stock traders? And NATO is crap at defence? The Royal Society are crap at research? MI5 & MI6 are crap at security? Greenpeace, friends of the earth, RSPB and WWF are crap at environmental issues? Obama is crap at world affairs, along with every NSA and CIA chief and all US secretaries of state since Carter? NATO? Let's see what happens when they get a real test. Which could be possible sooner than you think. Royal Society? Not really my subject but they did try to knock John Harrison for his prize money.
MI5 and MI6. Yes to be fair they do a pretty good job and are head and shoulders above any other security service in Europe. They need Britain more than Britain needs them.
Greenpeace the RSPB and WWF are political organisations so anything they say must be taken with a bucket full of salt.
Obama is crap at world affairs? Yep we agree.
All the US secretary's of state since Carter? Quite a sweeping statement that one. Do you really know what Alexander Haig, George Schultz, James Baker, Lawrence Eagleburger, Warren Christopher, Madelaine Albright, Colin Powell, and Condoleza Rice think? Or are you just quoting Hilary and John Kerry and winging it for the rest?
Well they signed a joint letter. Greenpeace the RSPB and WWF are not political organisations, they are environmental organisations. Their point has kind of been proven already though hasn't it with the Department of Energy and climate change being disbanded.
Who signed a joint letter? and for what?
Alexander Haig maybe? oops sorry he died in 2010.
Lawrence Eagleburger perhaps? oops sorry he died in 2011.
I suppose it could have been Warren Christopher oops nope he died in 2011 as well.
Before making sweeping statements check you facts.
Dead men don't sign letters.
Every living Secretary of state since carter, happy now?
Then why didn't you say that in the first place?
Because as was the case during the referendum the Remain campaign deliberately try to mislead people.
I think you will find both camps were guilty of misleading the electorate on many occasions....
Yes they were but some did,nt fall for it like the 17.2 million that voted leave.
I think you will find that many of the people who voted leave DID fall for some of the nonsense coming from the leave camp, in particular some of the outright lies that certain Leave advocates told the electorate about immigration.
"Immigration had nothing to do with my reason for voting leave neither did any of the lies told by BOTH sides. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Studies showed that mostly the poor parts of the uk voted leave." What does that mean, Shag? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"1. Those who do not know . 2. Those who do not know that they do not know . There are also those who despite the evidence refuse to acknowledge the realities, because 'that is not what they want to hear'. And there are those who follow self-proclaimed economic "experts" without thinking for themselves. What about people who think for themselves, and they come to the same answer as the experts? Fine unless they continue to proclaim that those who disagreed with their opinion are stupid and that it is crazy not to agree with the opinion of economic "experts." Then, I would get tired of them. Why do you think its smarter to disagree with experts? Not just economic experts, all experts. I don't. I think it is important to listen to what they have to say and to determine whether you agree with them. When I was a 13 year old schoolboy, our class was instructed to take part in an exercise. We were given a nominal £1,000 to invest in the stock market for a year, buying and selling shares. At the end of the year, our profit or loss was compared against major stock market investors and hedge fund managers. You know what? Over half the class beat the professional experts. I did, and I was mainly attracted to companies with names I liked. There is very little science involved in being an economic "expert." There are far too many variables involved for it to work in a predictable fashion. That is why I treat the opinions of economic experts with a great degree of caution. Your experience may be different. If so, you are welcome to leave your life savings with a professional hedge fund manager and feel confident that your fund will produce a healthy profit. Good luck. Maybe part of the problem is you don't know the difference between a stock trader and an economist? And maybe you don't understand that economists are as crap at predicting the future as stock traders? And NATO is crap at defence? The Royal Society are crap at research? MI5 & MI6 are crap at security? Greenpeace, friends of the earth, RSPB and WWF are crap at environmental issues? Obama is crap at world affairs, along with every NSA and CIA chief and all US secretaries of state since Carter? NATO? Let's see what happens when they get a real test. Which could be possible sooner than you think. Royal Society? Not really my subject but they did try to knock John Harrison for his prize money.
MI5 and MI6. Yes to be fair they do a pretty good job and are head and shoulders above any other security service in Europe. They need Britain more than Britain needs them.
Greenpeace the RSPB and WWF are political organisations so anything they say must be taken with a bucket full of salt.
Obama is crap at world affairs? Yep we agree.
All the US secretary's of state since Carter? Quite a sweeping statement that one. Do you really know what Alexander Haig, George Schultz, James Baker, Lawrence Eagleburger, Warren Christopher, Madelaine Albright, Colin Powell, and Condoleza Rice think? Or are you just quoting Hilary and John Kerry and winging it for the rest?
Well they signed a joint letter. Greenpeace the RSPB and WWF are not political organisations, they are environmental organisations. Their point has kind of been proven already though hasn't it with the Department of Energy and climate change being disbanded.
Who signed a joint letter? and for what?
Alexander Haig maybe? oops sorry he died in 2010.
Lawrence Eagleburger perhaps? oops sorry he died in 2011.
I suppose it could have been Warren Christopher oops nope he died in 2011 as well.
Before making sweeping statements check you facts.
Dead men don't sign letters.
Every living Secretary of state since carter, happy now?
Then why didn't you say that in the first place?
Because as was the case during the referendum the Remain campaign deliberately try to mislead people.
I think you will find both camps were guilty of misleading the electorate on many occasions....
Yes they were but some did,nt fall for it like the 17.2 million that voted leave.
I think you will find that many of the people who voted leave DID fall for some of the nonsense coming from the leave camp, in particular some of the outright lies that certain Leave advocates told the electorate about immigration.
Ah, so the Brexiters voted to leave because they were stupid but the Remainers voted to stay because they were not?
You are insulting the intelligence of many UK citizens."Some might say that the Brexit vote put the UK in the position of becoming dumbest country in the world, although there is still a chance for America to snatch the Title back if Donald Trump is voted President - so we may as well enjoy our moment whilst we can. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Studies showed that mostly the poor parts of the uk voted leave. What does that mean, Shag?" That those that voted brexit lived in such poor places like oldham. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Studies showed that mostly the poor parts of the uk voted leave. What does that mean, Shag?That those that voted brexit lived in such poor places like oldham." And? By the way, I do not live in Oldham and have no knowledge of it. Is it a bad place? A good place? Does it have some significance to the debate? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Studies showed that mostly the poor parts of the uk voted leave. What does that mean, Shag?That those that voted brexit lived in such poor places like oldham. And? By the way, I do not live in Oldham and have no knowledge of it. Is it a bad place? A good place? Does it have some significance to the debate?" That is good and yeah as usually such places focuses on immigration, they did say it is a deprived area. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Studies showed that mostly the poor parts of the uk voted leave. What does that mean, Shag?That those that voted brexit lived in such poor places like oldham. And? By the way, I do not live in Oldham and have no knowledge of it. Is it a bad place? A good place? Does it have some significance to the debate?" No it does not just more divisive talk to get a negative reaction just ignore them they will go away when feeding time comes. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
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"Anyway, the only question I want answered is this : Is this thread called Project 'Fear My Arse' . or Project Fear , my arse ? It makes a big difference "Looking at the OPs avatar I,d say Project "Fear My Arse" | |||
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" Immigration had nothing to do with my reason for voting leave neither did any of the lies told by BOTH sides. " So you would be happy to keep free movement of people from the EU then? | |||
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" Immigration had nothing to do with my reason for voting leave neither did any of the lies told by BOTH sides. So you would be happy to keep free movement of people from the EU then? " We have already heard seen people backtracking and we will see more as Brexit gradually turns into Brexshit £350,000,000 Battle bus lie... "Well that wasn't the reason I voted anyway." Boris Johnsons two faced articles... "well I didn't vote because of anything he said, I did my own research." Immigration, latent racism and the increase in hate crimes... "It wasn't about immigration for me." Now listen out as the economy starts to take a hit over the coming months and wait for... "There was always going to be short term economic problems, everyone expected that." Followed by... "We voted out in the full expectation that the economy would crash. Freedom has its price, everyone knew that." | |||
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" Immigration had nothing to do with my reason for voting leave neither did any of the lies told by BOTH sides. So you would be happy to keep free movement of people from the EU then? We have already heard seen people backtracking and we will see more as Brexit gradually turns into Brexshit £350,000,000 Battle bus lie... "Well that wasn't the reason I voted anyway." Boris Johnsons two faced articles... "well I didn't vote because of anything he said, I did my own research." Immigration, latent racism and the increase in hate crimes... "It wasn't about immigration for me." Now listen out as the economy starts to take a hit over the coming months and wait for... "There was always going to be short term economic problems, everyone expected that." Followed by... "We voted out in the full expectation that the economy would crash. Freedom has its price, everyone knew that." " Yes we did and we are happy knowing we will be free from the EU. | |||
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" Immigration had nothing to do with my reason for voting leave neither did any of the lies told by BOTH sides. So you would be happy to keep free movement of people from the EU then? We have already heard seen people backtracking and we will see more as Brexit gradually turns into Brexshit £350,000,000 Battle bus lie... "Well that wasn't the reason I voted anyway." Boris Johnsons two faced articles... "well I didn't vote because of anything he said, I did my own research." Immigration, latent racism and the increase in hate crimes... "It wasn't about immigration for me." Now listen out as the economy starts to take a hit over the coming months and wait for... "There was always going to be short term economic problems, everyone expected that." Followed by... "We voted out in the full expectation that the economy would crash. Freedom has its price, everyone knew that." " No backtracking here. I had quite enough sense to understand the arguments and to sort the wheat from the chaff. Yet another Remainer who thinks that the Brexiters swallowed the crap and were stupid, yet the Remainers were the intelligentsia with all the correct statistics and a well-founded faith in a United Europe. | |||
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"1. Those who do not know . 2. Those who do not know that they do not know . There are also those who despite the evidence refuse to acknowledge the realities, because 'that is not what they want to hear'. And there are those who follow self-proclaimed economic "experts" without thinking for themselves. What about people who think for themselves, and they come to the same answer as the experts? Fine unless they continue to proclaim that those who disagreed with their opinion are stupid and that it is crazy not to agree with the opinion of economic "experts." Then, I would get tired of them. Why do you think its smarter to disagree with experts? Not just economic experts, all experts. I don't. I think it is important to listen to what they have to say and to determine whether you agree with them. When I was a 13 year old schoolboy, our class was instructed to take part in an exercise. We were given a nominal £1,000 to invest in the stock market for a year, buying and selling shares. At the end of the year, our profit or loss was compared against major stock market investors and hedge fund managers. You know what? Over half the class beat the professional experts. I did, and I was mainly attracted to companies with names I liked. There is very little science involved in being an economic "expert." There are far too many variables involved for it to work in a predictable fashion. That is why I treat the opinions of economic experts with a great degree of caution. Your experience may be different. If so, you are welcome to leave your life savings with a professional hedge fund manager and feel confident that your fund will produce a healthy profit. Good luck. Maybe part of the problem is you don't know the difference between a stock trader and an economist? And maybe you don't understand that economists are as crap at predicting the future as stock traders? And NATO is crap at defence? The Royal Society are crap at research? MI5 & MI6 are crap at security? Greenpeace, friends of the earth, RSPB and WWF are crap at environmental issues? Obama is crap at world affairs, along with every NSA and CIA chief and all US secretaries of state since Carter? NATO? Let's see what happens when they get a real test. Which could be possible sooner than you think. Royal Society? Not really my subject but they did try to knock John Harrison for his prize money.
MI5 and MI6. Yes to be fair they do a pretty good job and are head and shoulders above any other security service in Europe. They need Britain more than Britain needs them.
Greenpeace the RSPB and WWF are political organisations so anything they say must be taken with a bucket full of salt.
Obama is crap at world affairs? Yep we agree.
All the US secretary's of state since Carter? Quite a sweeping statement that one. Do you really know what Alexander Haig, George Schultz, James Baker, Lawrence Eagleburger, Warren Christopher, Madelaine Albright, Colin Powell, and Condoleza Rice think? Or are you just quoting Hilary and John Kerry and winging it for the rest?
Well they signed a joint letter. Greenpeace the RSPB and WWF are not political organisations, they are environmental organisations. Their point has kind of been proven already though hasn't it with the Department of Energy and climate change being disbanded.
Who signed a joint letter? and for what?
Alexander Haig maybe? oops sorry he died in 2010.
Lawrence Eagleburger perhaps? oops sorry he died in 2011.
I suppose it could have been Warren Christopher oops nope he died in 2011 as well.
Before making sweeping statements check you facts.
Dead men don't sign letters.
Every living Secretary of state since carter, happy now?
Then why didn't you say that in the first place?
Because as was the case during the referendum the Remain campaign deliberately try to mislead people.
I think you will find both camps were guilty of misleading the electorate on many occasions....
Yes they were but some did,nt fall for it like the 17.2 million that voted leave. "You do realise that that last statement can be read ever way. It really needs a did it didn't on the end to clarify it. | |||
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"1. Those who do not know . 2. Those who do not know that they do not know . There are also those who despite the evidence refuse to acknowledge the realities, because 'that is not what they want to hear'. And there are those who follow self-proclaimed economic "experts" without thinking for themselves. What about people who think for themselves, and they come to the same answer as the experts? Fine unless they continue to proclaim that those who disagreed with their opinion are stupid and that it is crazy not to agree with the opinion of economic "experts." Then, I would get tired of them. Why do you think its smarter to disagree with experts? Not just economic experts, all experts. I don't. I think it is important to listen to what they have to say and to determine whether you agree with them. When I was a 13 year old schoolboy, our class was instructed to take part in an exercise. We were given a nominal £1,000 to invest in the stock market for a year, buying and selling shares. At the end of the year, our profit or loss was compared against major stock market investors and hedge fund managers. You know what? Over half the class beat the professional experts. I did, and I was mainly attracted to companies with names I liked. There is very little science involved in being an economic "expert." There are far too many variables involved for it to work in a predictable fashion. That is why I treat the opinions of economic experts with a great degree of caution. Your experience may be different. If so, you are welcome to leave your life savings with a professional hedge fund manager and feel confident that your fund will produce a healthy profit. Good luck. Maybe part of the problem is you don't know the difference between a stock trader and an economist? And maybe you don't understand that economists are as crap at predicting the future as stock traders? And NATO is crap at defence? The Royal Society are crap at research? MI5 & MI6 are crap at security? Greenpeace, friends of the earth, RSPB and WWF are crap at environmental issues? Obama is crap at world affairs, along with every NSA and CIA chief and all US secretaries of state since Carter? NATO? Let's see what happens when they get a real test. Which could be possible sooner than you think. Royal Society? Not really my subject but they did try to knock John Harrison for his prize money.
MI5 and MI6. Yes to be fair they do a pretty good job and are head and shoulders above any other security service in Europe. They need Britain more than Britain needs them.
Greenpeace the RSPB and WWF are political organisations so anything they say must be taken with a bucket full of salt.
Obama is crap at world affairs? Yep we agree.
All the US secretary's of state since Carter? Quite a sweeping statement that one. Do you really know what Alexander Haig, George Schultz, James Baker, Lawrence Eagleburger, Warren Christopher, Madelaine Albright, Colin Powell, and Condoleza Rice think? Or are you just quoting Hilary and John Kerry and winging it for the rest?
Well they signed a joint letter. Greenpeace the RSPB and WWF are not political organisations, they are environmental organisations. Their point has kind of been proven already though hasn't it with the Department of Energy and climate change being disbanded.
Who signed a joint letter? and for what?
Alexander Haig maybe? oops sorry he died in 2010.
Lawrence Eagleburger perhaps? oops sorry he died in 2011.
I suppose it could have been Warren Christopher oops nope he died in 2011 as well.
Before making sweeping statements check you facts.
Dead men don't sign letters."I think that goes without saying, doesn't it? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
