FabSwingers.com > Forums > Politics > £66bn Poorer Each Year
£66bn Poorer Each Year
Jump to: Newest in thread
 ) that would save us £38bn, so if we take the lower estimate that would cover all of it, simples, however if we take the higher number we are still £28bn short, so I guess we would also have to cut quite heavily elsewhere.
Or Health, those Brexitier tell us that load of our health budget is spent on foreigners anyway, so if we cut 48% of the health budget, we probably wouldn’t even notice, right? Just sack half the nurses, close half the hospitals, close half the GPs surgeries, get rid of half of the ambulances etc.
Or as so many pensioners voted for Brexit, maybe we should take it from the pension budget, and cut that by 42%? Thats what they voted for, right?
So what do you think we should cut to find £66bn of savings each year? Or do you think maybe we should scrap the idea of a “Hard Brexit” after all? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
 | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Politicians and statistics combine to make anything possible, it is all talk, yes right now just a load of hot air or reports not worth the paper they are written on. The people of the UK have spoken, it is democracy like it or not, agree with it or not, if eligible we all had our vote. Best thing would be to get on with it and see how it goes, no point crying over spilt milk "We are talking about the terms of the exit, not the exit itself. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Good to hear you are party to these terms as they have not been negotiated, guess this makes for more hot air. It is good to hear opinions on politics and current affairs everyone has and is entitled to their views. Sadly most of us are in the dark as to what happens next but I would suggest the same applies to all the people inside the EU as the politicians and Brussels bureaucrats voice differing opinions and views. As for Hard Brexit or Soft Brexit there is no such thing, there is only Brexit or remain and the majority want Brexit." I don't believe that the majority of the UK want the government to have to find £66bn in savings each and every year. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
 | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"How about we - shock horror! - increase taxes on the richest and tighten up tax loopholes so we stop doing sweetheart deals with Google, Vodafone and the rest. That would certainly cover the missing money rather than more cuts to welfare." £66bn of tax increases, from a Tory government? I know you are saying to put it on the rich, but if we spread it over everyone it would be £1,000 for every man woman and child in the country, each year, just to stay in the same position as we are now. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"How about we - shock horror! - increase taxes on the richest and tighten up tax loopholes so we stop doing sweetheart deals with Google, Vodafone and the rest. That would certainly cover the missing money rather than more cuts to welfare. £66bn of tax increases, from a Tory government? I know you are saying to put it on the rich, but if we spread it over everyone it would be £1,000 for every man woman and child in the country, each year, just to stay in the same position as we are now. " Which will be impossible with the effect of inflationary effects so you can add a significant wedge to that. You would think that rather being at a loss the new, thriving post Brexit world the country would be a lot better off by then? Still that is in the longer term. In the short term £GBP is now 24% down on the $USD this year and is the worst performing of the 32 most actively trading commodities meaning that all the things we buy are about to get a lot more expensive. It's ok though cos we can get immigration under control. As long as Brexit isn't actually successful that is, because if by some miracle it would be a success, we would need more immigration than we already have. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Here's a thought. We might be £66 billion richer when companies currently in the EU locate some of their operations to the UK to take advantage of the free trade deals we will make around the world "Provide some evidence of that. Every single credible source is saying it is going to seriously damage our economy. Do you really not care? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The 66 billion as already stated in another post is just a forecast based on figures requested by george osbourne more project fear methinks "There is no project fear. Wake Up! Name one independent credible economic source that thinks Brexit is a good idea. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Here's a thought. We might be £66 billion richer when companies currently in the EU locate some of their operations to the UK to take advantage of the free trade deals we will make around the world
Provide some evidence of that. Every single credible source is saying it is going to seriously damage our economy. Do you really not care? "provide some evideoce that they won't. Makes sense to me, does it not to you? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The 66 billion as already stated in another post is just a forecast based on figures requested by george osbourne more project fear methinks " | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"based on FORECAST from the CONTROVERSIAL study of the PREDICTED impact of quitting the EU all according to a newspaper !!! the Times no less Based on a push by remainers to make leaving the single market look bad !!!!! C'mon guys all your doing is making yourselves look bitter and twisted. You cite evidence but you have no eveidence you have your experts predicting, thats it, the same experts that Britain would vote to remain, the same experst that ..... oh I give up and so should you lot "CLCC are bitter and twisted best just ignore their posts. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Sadly most of us are in the dark as to what happens next but I would suggest the same applies to all the people inside the EU as the politicians and Brussels bureaucrats voice differing opinions and views. ." Nope; Actually no one in the EU - particularly the man in the street, gives a fuck what the UK does ( apart from wishing they would just get on with it as the fannying about is making world markets a bit annoying) | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"based on FORECAST from the CONTROVERSIAL study of the PREDICTED impact of quitting the EU all according to a newspaper !!! the Times no less Based on a push by remainers to make leaving the single market look bad !!!!! C'mon guys all your doing is making yourselves look bitter and twisted. You cite evidence but you have no eveidence you have your experts predicting, thats it, the same experts that Britain would vote to remain, the same experst that ..... oh I give up and so should you lot "The report was leaked from the Treasury department of Prime Minister Mays Government. The fact that it was written pre referendum in the days of Cameron and Osborne but is still being validated today 4 months later is telling. Someone in the Treasury is making the point loud and clear that the likely outcome of the direction that the current Govt is taking will be costly. Of course what could happen now is that they sack the Treasury officials responsible and employ others who will write the things that Prime Minister want them to say. After all, what would be the point of employing experts who tell you what you don't want to hear when you can employ someone who will tell you what you do want to hear. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"based on FORECAST from the CONTROVERSIAL study of the PREDICTED impact of quitting the EU all according to a newspaper !!! the Times no less Based on a push by remainers to make leaving the single market look bad !!!!! C'mon guys all your doing is making yourselves look bitter and twisted. You cite evidence but you have no eveidence you have your experts predicting, thats it, the same experts that Britain would vote to remain, the same experst that ..... oh I give up and so should you lot
CLCC are bitter and twisted best just ignore their posts. "Ignore me, I wouldn't listen to someone on a forum, but listen to the Treasury, listen the IFS, listen to the LSE. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"You clearly confuse the issue by saying the initial post was regarding terms of Brexit yet you quote consequences of Brexit. Take tax (unless you are part of the EU ask the Irish!) it is domestic policy so reductions in Education, Health or Pensions would be due to money available to spend against tax revenue. While many commentators and experts say one thing and many others the opposite, nobody knows as it is a mix of forecasts, speculation, assumptions and best guesses. Sadly this is the reality of our current situation, nobody in this house (as in hubby and I) voted to leave but it has been decided so all that can be done is what the Government is saying "get the best deal for the UK" You can speculate all you want and you can put forward any point of view but please do not confuse issues as terms of leaving are not consequences. The only way to find out is to leave, the terms will be negotiated between the parties. " The Treasury documents are about how a Hard Brexit (leaving the single market) will lead to reduced tax income, which will leave the budget with a £66bn black hole, therefore effecting how much money we have to spend on Health, Education, Defence etc. If we have a Soft Brexit, and stay in the Single Market, we won't have a £66bn black hole in the budget. In both scenarios we leave the EU, but its the terms on which we leave that we are talking about. To say that parliament shouldn't get a vote on this is both ridiculous and worrying. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"based on FORECAST from the CONTROVERSIAL study of the PREDICTED impact of quitting the EU all according to a newspaper !!! the Times no less Based on a push by remainers to make leaving the single market look bad !!!!! C'mon guys all your doing is making yourselves look bitter and twisted. You cite evidence but you have no eveidence you have your experts predicting, thats it, the same experts that Britain would vote to remain, the same experst that ..... oh I give up and so should you lot
CLCC are bitter and twisted best just ignore their posts.
Ignore me, I wouldn't listen to someone on a forum, but listen to the Treasury, listen the IFS, listen to the LSE."Funny how you've now changed your list of "experts" that we should listen to. You kept saying we should all listen to the IMF during the referendum campaign but last week the IMF had to make a humiliating climbdown and admit that their forecasts and predictions of economic armageddon for the UK should we vote leave were completely wrong. So your IMF experts have admitted themselves that they got it completely wrong. The IMF have a terrible track record though for making false forecasts, and wrong predictions as was pointed out to you many times on this forum but still you put all of your faith and trust in these so called experts. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"based on FORECAST from the CONTROVERSIAL study of the PREDICTED impact of quitting the EU all according to a newspaper !!! the Times no less Based on a push by remainers to make leaving the single market look bad !!!!! C'mon guys all your doing is making yourselves look bitter and twisted. You cite evidence but you have no eveidence you have your experts predicting, thats it, the same experts that Britain would vote to remain, the same experst that ..... oh I give up and so should you lot
CLCC are bitter and twisted best just ignore their posts.
Ignore me, I wouldn't listen to someone on a forum, but listen to the Treasury, listen the IFS, listen to the LSE.
Funny how you've now changed your list of "experts" that we should listen to. You kept saying we should all listen to the IMF during the referendum campaign but last week the IMF had to make a humiliating climbdown and admit that their forecasts and predictions of economic armageddon for the UK should we vote leave were completely wrong. So your IMF experts have admitted themselves that they got it completely wrong. The IMF have a terrible track record though for making false forecasts, and wrong predictions as was pointed out to you many times on this forum but still you put all of your faith and trust in these so called experts. "Im not changing my list at all, listen to the IMF too, listen to any economic body, you wont find one that recommends Brexit. Centaur why dont you provide some proof and show us a link to this so called humiliating climb down where they say they are wrong? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"based on FORECAST from the CONTROVERSIAL study of the PREDICTED impact of quitting the EU all according to a newspaper !!! the Times no less Based on a push by remainers to make leaving the single market look bad !!!!! C'mon guys all your doing is making yourselves look bitter and twisted. You cite evidence but you have no eveidence you have your experts predicting, thats it, the same experts that Britain would vote to remain, the same experst that ..... oh I give up and so should you lot
CLCC are bitter and twisted best just ignore their posts.
Ignore me, I wouldn't listen to someone on a forum, but listen to the Treasury, listen the IFS, listen to the LSE.
Funny how you've now changed your list of "experts" that we should listen to. You kept saying we should all listen to the IMF during the referendum campaign but last week the IMF had to make a humiliating climbdown and admit that their forecasts and predictions of economic armageddon for the UK should we vote leave were completely wrong. So your IMF experts have admitted themselves that they got it completely wrong. The IMF have a terrible track record though for making false forecasts, and wrong predictions as was pointed out to you many times on this forum but still you put all of your faith and trust in these so called experts.
Im not changing my list at all, listen to the IMF too, listen to any economic body, you wont find one that recommends Brexit.
Centaur why dont you provide some proof and show us a link to this so called humiliating climb down where they say they are wrong? "It was on the news channels last week. Reports in The Sun newspaper today about it too, BBC executives didn't want to report on it because they wanted to "bury Brexit good news". Typical of the Europhile EU luvvies at the BBC though so i wasn't at all surprised by that particular revelation. I don't often watch the BBC though, prefer sky news myself anyway, and it was reported on sky news. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"based on FORECAST from the CONTROVERSIAL study of the PREDICTED impact of quitting the EU all according to a newspaper !!! the Times no less Based on a push by remainers to make leaving the single market look bad !!!!! C'mon guys all your doing is making yourselves look bitter and twisted. You cite evidence but you have no eveidence you have your experts predicting, thats it, the same experts that Britain would vote to remain, the same experst that ..... oh I give up and so should you lot
CLCC are bitter and twisted best just ignore their posts.
Ignore me, I wouldn't listen to someone on a forum, but listen to the Treasury, listen the IFS, listen to the LSE.
Funny how you've now changed your list of "experts" that we should listen to. You kept saying we should all listen to the IMF during the referendum campaign but last week the IMF had to make a humiliating climbdown and admit that their forecasts and predictions of economic armageddon for the UK should we vote leave were completely wrong. So your IMF experts have admitted themselves that they got it completely wrong. The IMF have a terrible track record though for making false forecasts, and wrong predictions as was pointed out to you many times on this forum but still you put all of your faith and trust in these so called experts.
Im not changing my list at all, listen to the IMF too, listen to any economic body, you wont find one that recommends Brexit.
"Maybe you should listen to the financial/economic expert and ex governor of the Bank of England Mervyn King and what he had to say yesterday. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"based on FORECAST from the CONTROVERSIAL study of the PREDICTED impact of quitting the EU all according to a newspaper !!! the Times no less Based on a push by remainers to make leaving the single market look bad !!!!! C'mon guys all your doing is making yourselves look bitter and twisted. You cite evidence but you have no eveidence you have your experts predicting, thats it, the same experts that Britain would vote to remain, the same experst that ..... oh I give up and so should you lot
CLCC are bitter and twisted best just ignore their posts.
Ignore me, I wouldn't listen to someone on a forum, but listen to the Treasury, listen the IFS, listen to the LSE.
Funny how you've now changed your list of "experts" that we should listen to. You kept saying we should all listen to the IMF during the referendum campaign but last week the IMF had to make a humiliating climbdown and admit that their forecasts and predictions of economic armageddon for the UK should we vote leave were completely wrong. So your IMF experts have admitted themselves that they got it completely wrong. The IMF have a terrible track record though for making false forecasts, and wrong predictions as was pointed out to you many times on this forum but still you put all of your faith and trust in these so called experts.
Im not changing my list at all, listen to the IMF too, listen to any economic body, you wont find one that recommends Brexit.
Centaur why dont you provide some proof and show us a link to this so called humiliating climb down where they say they are wrong?
It was on the news channels last week. Reports in The Sun newspaper today about it too, BBC executives didn't want to report on it because they wanted to "bury Brexit good news". Typical of the Europhile EU luvvies at the BBC though so i wasn't at all surprised by that particular revelation. I don't often watch the BBC though, prefer sky news myself anyway, and it was reported on sky news. "And yet you cant provide a single link? That seems strange. As for Mervyn King, why do you believe the former Governor, but not the current one? I had a look to see what he is up to now, to see if he is still active in economic research, according to Wikipedia "He is a Foreign Honorary Member of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences, sits on the Advisory Council of the London Symphony Orchestra, is a President of Worcestershire County Cricket Club, Honorary President of Ekenäs Cricket Club in Finland,[3] and a Trustee of the National Gallery.[2]". So it doesn't sound as though he is spending time looking at the economy, unlike the Bank of England, Treasury, IFS, IMF, LSE etc. etc. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The 66 billion as already stated in another post is just a forecast based on figures requested by george osbourne more project fear methinks
There is no project fear. Wake Up! Name one independent credible economic source that thinks Brexit is a good idea. "Lots of companies think it is a good idea . JCB are one example . Companies in which directors have substantial interests are hardly going to back policies that will damage them. What is your definition of a creditable economic source?. In the long term we will all be better of so there is nothing to worry about . Other countries will still want out goods and services . I do not see many investors rushing to sell their shares . We have entered a new era with a bright future . Just ignore the so called experts . How many of their predictions are ever right.? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"based on FORECAST from the CONTROVERSIAL study of the PREDICTED impact of quitting the EU all according to a newspaper !!! the Times no less Based on a push by remainers to make leaving the single market look bad !!!!! C'mon guys all your doing is making yourselves look bitter and twisted. You cite evidence but you have no eveidence you have your experts predicting, thats it, the same experts that Britain would vote to remain, the same experst that ..... oh I give up and so should you lot
CLCC are bitter and twisted best just ignore their posts.
Ignore me, I wouldn't listen to someone on a forum, but listen to the Treasury, listen the IFS, listen to the LSE.
Funny how you've now changed your list of "experts" that we should listen to. You kept saying we should all listen to the IMF during the referendum campaign but last week the IMF had to make a humiliating climbdown and admit that their forecasts and predictions of economic armageddon for the UK should we vote leave were completely wrong. So your IMF experts have admitted themselves that they got it completely wrong. The IMF have a terrible track record though for making false forecasts, and wrong predictions as was pointed out to you many times on this forum but still you put all of your faith and trust in these so called experts.
Im not changing my list at all, listen to the IMF too, listen to any economic body, you wont find one that recommends Brexit.
Centaur why dont you provide some proof and show us a link to this so called humiliating climb down where they say they are wrong?
It was on the news channels last week. Reports in The Sun newspaper today about it too, BBC executives didn't want to report on it because they wanted to "bury Brexit good news". Typical of the Europhile EU luvvies at the BBC though so i wasn't at all surprised by that particular revelation. I don't often watch the BBC though, prefer sky news myself anyway, and it was reported on sky news.
And yet you cant provide a single link? That seems strange.
As for Mervyn King, why do you believe the former Governor, but not the current one? I had a look to see what he is up to now, to see if he is still active in economic research, according to Wikipedia "He is a Foreign Honorary Member of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences, sits on the Advisory Council of the London Symphony Orchestra, is a President of Worcestershire County Cricket Club, Honorary President of Ekenäs Cricket Club in Finland,[3] and a Trustee of the National Gallery.[2]". So it doesn't sound as though he is spending time looking at the economy, unlike the Bank of England, Treasury, IFS, IMF, LSE etc. etc."So you can use tools on the Internet to search and find out what Mervyn King is upto but you can't use those same tools to find a link to the IMF climbdown last week???? Utterly bizarre. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The 66 billion as already stated in another post is just a forecast based on figures requested by george osbourne more project fear methinks
There is no project fear. Wake Up! Name one independent credible economic source that thinks Brexit is a good idea. Lots of companies think it is a good idea . JCB are one example . Companies in which directors have substantial interests are hardly going to back policies that will damage them. What is your definition of a creditable economic source?.
In the long term we will all be better of so there is nothing to worry about .
Other countries will still want out goods and services .
I do not see many investors rushing to sell their shares .
We have entered a new era with a bright future .
Just ignore the so called experts . How many of their predictions are ever right.? "FTSE 100 companies must also be thinking it's a good idea now. FTSE 100 hit an all time unprecedented high yesterday. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"based on FORECAST from the CONTROVERSIAL study of the PREDICTED impact of quitting the EU all according to a newspaper !!! the Times no less Based on a push by remainers to make leaving the single market look bad !!!!! C'mon guys all your doing is making yourselves look bitter and twisted. You cite evidence but you have no eveidence you have your experts predicting, thats it, the same experts that Britain would vote to remain, the same experst that ..... oh I give up and so should you lot
CLCC are bitter and twisted best just ignore their posts.
Ignore me, I wouldn't listen to someone on a forum, but listen to the Treasury, listen the IFS, listen to the LSE.
Funny how you've now changed your list of "experts" that we should listen to. You kept saying we should all listen to the IMF during the referendum campaign but last week the IMF had to make a humiliating climbdown and admit that their forecasts and predictions of economic armageddon for the UK should we vote leave were completely wrong. So your IMF experts have admitted themselves that they got it completely wrong. The IMF have a terrible track record though for making false forecasts, and wrong predictions as was pointed out to you many times on this forum but still you put all of your faith and trust in these so called experts.
Im not changing my list at all, listen to the IMF too, listen to any economic body, you wont find one that recommends Brexit.
Centaur why dont you provide some proof and show us a link to this so called humiliating climb down where they say they are wrong?
It was on the news channels last week. Reports in The Sun newspaper today about it too, BBC executives didn't want to report on it because they wanted to "bury Brexit good news". Typical of the Europhile EU luvvies at the BBC though so i wasn't at all surprised by that particular revelation. I don't often watch the BBC though, prefer sky news myself anyway, and it was reported on sky news.
And yet you cant provide a single link? That seems strange.
As for Mervyn King, why do you believe the former Governor, but not the current one? I had a look to see what he is up to now, to see if he is still active in economic research, according to Wikipedia "He is a Foreign Honorary Member of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences, sits on the Advisory Council of the London Symphony Orchestra, is a President of Worcestershire County Cricket Club, Honorary President of Ekenäs Cricket Club in Finland,[3] and a Trustee of the National Gallery.[2]". So it doesn't sound as though he is spending time looking at the economy, unlike the Bank of England, Treasury, IFS, IMF, LSE etc. etc."Mervyn King said in his statement yesterday that the Bank of England had been trying to devalue the pound for the last 3 years. Now Brexit has given them the vehicle to achieve it. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"based on FORECAST from the CONTROVERSIAL study of the PREDICTED impact of quitting the EU all according to a newspaper !!! the Times no less Based on a push by remainers to make leaving the single market look bad !!!!! C'mon guys all your doing is making yourselves look bitter and twisted. You cite evidence but you have no eveidence you have your experts predicting, thats it, the same experts that Britain would vote to remain, the same experst that ..... oh I give up and so should you lot
CLCC are bitter and twisted best just ignore their posts.
Ignore me, I wouldn't listen to someone on a forum, but listen to the Treasury, listen the IFS, listen to the LSE.
Funny how you've now changed your list of "experts" that we should listen to. You kept saying we should all listen to the IMF during the referendum campaign but last week the IMF had to make a humiliating climbdown and admit that their forecasts and predictions of economic armageddon for the UK should we vote leave were completely wrong. So your IMF experts have admitted themselves that they got it completely wrong. The IMF have a terrible track record though for making false forecasts, and wrong predictions as was pointed out to you many times on this forum but still you put all of your faith and trust in these so called experts.
Im not changing my list at all, listen to the IMF too, listen to any economic body, you wont find one that recommends Brexit.
Centaur why dont you provide some proof and show us a link to this so called humiliating climb down where they say they are wrong?
It was on the news channels last week. Reports in The Sun newspaper today about it too, BBC executives didn't want to report on it because they wanted to "bury Brexit good news". Typical of the Europhile EU luvvies at the BBC though so i wasn't at all surprised by that particular revelation. I don't often watch the BBC though, prefer sky news myself anyway, and it was reported on sky news.
And yet you cant provide a single link? That seems strange.
As for Mervyn King, why do you believe the former Governor, but not the current one? I had a look to see what he is up to now, to see if he is still active in economic research, according to Wikipedia "He is a Foreign Honorary Member of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences, sits on the Advisory Council of the London Symphony Orchestra, is a President of Worcestershire County Cricket Club, Honorary President of Ekenäs Cricket Club in Finland,[3] and a Trustee of the National Gallery.[2]". So it doesn't sound as though he is spending time looking at the economy, unlike the Bank of England, Treasury, IFS, IMF, LSE etc. etc.
So you can use tools on the Internet to search and find out what Mervyn King is upto but you can't use those same tools to find a link to the IMF climbdown last week????
Utterly bizarre. "I can find articles last week saying the IMF stands by its assessment, but I can't find a humiliating climb down where they admit they got it completely wrong. Maybe its because you are making in up Centaur? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The 66 billion as already stated in another post is just a forecast based on figures requested by george osbourne more project fear methinks
There is no project fear. Wake Up! Name one independent credible economic source that thinks Brexit is a good idea. Lots of companies think it is a good idea . JCB are one example . Companies in which directors have substantial interests are hardly going to back policies that will damage them. What is your definition of a creditable economic source?.
In the long term we will all be better of so there is nothing to worry about .
Other countries will still want out goods and services .
I do not see many investors rushing to sell their shares .
We have entered a new era with a bright future .
Just ignore the so called experts . How many of their predictions are ever right.?
FTSE 100 companies must also be thinking it's a good idea now. FTSE 100 hit an all time unprecedented high yesterday. "The unprecedented high is due to their trading in dollars, so when converted to sterling it has given them an unprecedented boost over the last few months without them having to lift a finger. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"based on FORECAST from the CONTROVERSIAL study of the PREDICTED impact of quitting the EU all according to a newspaper !!! the Times no less Based on a push by remainers to make leaving the single market look bad !!!!! C'mon guys all your doing is making yourselves look bitter and twisted. You cite evidence but you have no eveidence you have your experts predicting, thats it, the same experts that Britain would vote to remain, the same experst that ..... oh I give up and so should you lot
CLCC are bitter and twisted best just ignore their posts.
Ignore me, I wouldn't listen to someone on a forum, but listen to the Treasury, listen the IFS, listen to the LSE.
Funny how you've now changed your list of "experts" that we should listen to. You kept saying we should all listen to the IMF during the referendum campaign but last week the IMF had to make a humiliating climbdown and admit that their forecasts and predictions of economic armageddon for the UK should we vote leave were completely wrong. So your IMF experts have admitted themselves that they got it completely wrong. The IMF have a terrible track record though for making false forecasts, and wrong predictions as was pointed out to you many times on this forum but still you put all of your faith and trust in these so called experts.
Im not changing my list at all, listen to the IMF too, listen to any economic body, you wont find one that recommends Brexit.
Centaur why dont you provide some proof and show us a link to this so called humiliating climb down where they say they are wrong?
It was on the news channels last week. Reports in The Sun newspaper today about it too, BBC executives didn't want to report on it because they wanted to "bury Brexit good news". Typical of the Europhile EU luvvies at the BBC though so i wasn't at all surprised by that particular revelation. I don't often watch the BBC though, prefer sky news myself anyway, and it was reported on sky news.
And yet you cant provide a single link? That seems strange.
As for Mervyn King, why do you believe the former Governor, but not the current one? I had a look to see what he is up to now, to see if he is still active in economic research, according to Wikipedia "He is a Foreign Honorary Member of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences, sits on the Advisory Council of the London Symphony Orchestra, is a President of Worcestershire County Cricket Club, Honorary President of Ekenäs Cricket Club in Finland,[3] and a Trustee of the National Gallery.[2]". So it doesn't sound as though he is spending time looking at the economy, unlike the Bank of England, Treasury, IFS, IMF, LSE etc. etc.
So you can use tools on the Internet to search and find out what Mervyn King is upto but you can't use those same tools to find a link to the IMF climbdown last week????
Utterly bizarre. "Neither to a link where the BoE admits it 'got it wrong on Brexit'. And yet they are the first to tell you 'you want to know...use google' Like you say.... utterly bizarre. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"On the 23rd May the Treasury forecast this: "A vote to leave would cause a profound economic shock creating instability and uncertainty which would be compounded by the complex and interdependent negotiations that would follow. The central conclusion of the analysis is that the effect of this profound shock would be to push the UK into recession and lead to a sharp rise in unemployment" So why are you still quoting more gobshite from this discredited bunch of overpaid, phoney 'economists'? " Ah but they meant after article 50 was triggered really . Or maybe 2 years after that really  . Anyway, fancy pointing that out, the racist card will be played any minute now | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Economics is a social science, NOT a science. Economic forecasts are nothing more than estimates, often based on questionable data and dubious assumptions. How many economists warned of problems if we failed to join the euro? The same people who warned of brexit disaster. The same people who failed to predict the financial crash, despite so many obvious hazards within the financial system (many of which are still unaddressed, BTW) The EU is essentially undemocratic, unaccountable, economically dysfunctional, non-compliant in financial accounting, a blatant lie in terms of the equality of economies required for a common currency, and it is absolutely resistant to reform. Why would a country which has a history of being the leading exponent of free trade not prosper outside of a trading zone which is addicted to protectionism and which has so failed its citizens?" You can spot a bad argument by the contradictions it contains. BTEXITers tell us in one breath that the EU is absolutely resistant to reform but then in the next breath will tell us the EU has fundamentally changed since we joined in 1975. So which is it? Has the EU fundamentally changed or is it absolutely resistant to reform. It can't be both. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Economics is a social science, NOT a science. Economic forecasts are nothing more than estimates, often based on questionable data and dubious assumptions. How many economists warned of problems if we failed to join the euro? The same people who warned of brexit disaster. The same people who failed to predict the financial crash, despite so many obvious hazards within the financial system (many of which are still unaddressed, BTW) The EU is essentially undemocratic, unaccountable, economically dysfunctional, non-compliant in financial accounting, a blatant lie in terms of the equality of economies required for a common currency, and it is absolutely resistant to reform. Why would a country which has a history of being the leading exponent of free trade not prosper outside of a trading zone which is addicted to protectionism and which has so failed its citizens? You can spot a bad argument by the contradictions it contains. BTEXITers tell us in one breath that the EU is absolutely resistant to reform but then in the next breath will tell us the EU has fundamentally changed since we joined in 1975. So which is it? Has the EU fundamentally changed or is it absolutely resistant to reform. It can't be both." Reform is change for the better. The EU has not reformed since 1975, it's just progressively gotten worse over time. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Economics is a social science, NOT a science. Economic forecasts are nothing more than estimates, often based on questionable data and dubious assumptions. How many economists warned of problems if we failed to join the euro? The same people who warned of brexit disaster. The same people who failed to predict the financial crash, despite so many obvious hazards within the financial system (many of which are still unaddressed, BTW) The EU is essentially undemocratic, unaccountable, economically dysfunctional, non-compliant in financial accounting, a blatant lie in terms of the equality of economies required for a common currency, and it is absolutely resistant to reform. Why would a country which has a history of being the leading exponent of free trade not prosper outside of a trading zone which is addicted to protectionism and which has so failed its citizens? You can spot a bad argument by the contradictions it contains. BTEXITers tell us in one breath that the EU is absolutely resistant to reform but then in the next breath will tell us the EU has fundamentally changed since we joined in 1975. So which is it? Has the EU fundamentally changed or is it absolutely resistant to reform. It can't be both." It has changed in that it was an arrangement for her business to be able to operate a lot more efficiently. Now it has more strings than a harp attached to it. The single market is a great idea but it's all of the other things they are tacking on to it at every turn. And now they are going on about an EU army when we already have a shared army as in the UN. sometimes corporations can get too big and the EU is a corporation | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Economics is a social science, NOT a science. Economic forecasts are nothing more than estimates, often based on questionable data and dubious assumptions. How many economists warned of problems if we failed to join the euro? The same people who warned of brexit disaster. The same people who failed to predict the financial crash, despite so many obvious hazards within the financial system (many of which are still unaddressed, BTW) The EU is essentially undemocratic, unaccountable, economically dysfunctional, non-compliant in financial accounting, a blatant lie in terms of the equality of economies required for a common currency, and it is absolutely resistant to reform. Why would a country which has a history of being the leading exponent of free trade not prosper outside of a trading zone which is addicted to protectionism and which has so failed its citizens? You can spot a bad argument by the contradictions it contains. BTEXITers tell us in one breath that the EU is absolutely resistant to reform but then in the next breath will tell us the EU has fundamentally changed since we joined in 1975. So which is it? Has the EU fundamentally changed or is it absolutely resistant to reform. It can't be both. Reform is change for the better. The EU has not reformed since 1975, it's just progressively gotten worse over time. " That's clearly just not true, unless you're saying that the reform from party appointment MEPs to directly elected MEPs in the 90s was not a change for the better and therefore a reform. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So apart from the doors, no one has said how what government services they are going to cut to find this £66bn in savings. Come on, let us know where you think the axe should fall." or if its a success what are we going to spend the extra £66 billion on | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So apart from the doors, no one has said how what government services they are going to cut to find this £66bn in savings. Come on, let us know where you think the axe should fall. or if its a success what are we going to spend the extra £66 billion on" Exactly, CLCC talks about the £66bn as if it's fact. It's not a fact it's just a forecast/prediction based on dodgy assumptions. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So apart from the doors, no one has said how what government services they are going to cut to find this £66bn in savings. Come on, let us know where you think the axe should fall. or if its a success what are we going to spend the extra £66 billion on Exactly, CLCC talks about the £66bn as if it's fact. It's not a fact it's just a forecast/prediction based on dodgy assumptions. " If you believe that every single financial think-tank, the Treasury, international organisation, university etc. is dodgy and doesn’t know how to do their job then it makes you sound more than a little paranoid. Fact or not, petrol prices will go up? Fact or not, food prices will go up? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So apart from the doors, no one has said how what government services they are going to cut to find this £66bn in savings. Come on, let us know where you think the axe should fall. or if its a success what are we going to spend the extra £66 billion on Exactly, CLCC talks about the £66bn as if it's fact. It's not a fact it's just a forecast/prediction based on dodgy assumptions. " On purely trade terms that just doesn't add up. We are going from completely unrestricted trade with the biggest, largest and nearest market in the world to something more restricted. We are abandoning 53 free (but not totally unrestricted) trade deals with other countries. If we increase our trade with the rest of the world (and there is no guarantee that we will) it won't be in the same totally unrestricted bases that we have now within the EU and even if we do manage to create some sort of Anglo Saxon common/single market or Commonwealth common/single market we'll have exactly the same questions of sovereignty (by whom and how are the single and common set of rules made) as we now have with the EU plus they are all a lot further away. So can that possibly lead to more trade. The reality is is that in terms of trade, outside the European Single Market, we will be somewhere between worse off and a lot worse off than we would have been if we stayed in it. That could mean that we're all poorer than we are now or it could simply mean that were less richer than we would have been but still possibly richer than now. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Fuel prices where already coming down as OPEC are reducing output But fuel goes up and down all yhe time Same as food prices up and down all the time All the experts in the world can predict and forecast cut the giblets ftom a chicken and read the signs !!!!! In the end its guesswork I grant you its informed guesswork but thats all it is The exit is going to happen nothing will stop that not you not your experts so stop putting arguements forward that you hope will derail the exit All your well informed intelligent well read arguements are just smoke and mirrors Just my opinion "Opinion V Knowledge. When OPEC reduce production, prices go up (not down as you incorrectly stated). Add to that a 20% loss in value of £GBP against the $USD and oil is priced in $USD. It is not an opinion that given these circumstances the price of fuel will rise in the UK, it is a certainty. AS a country that imports more than it exports it is also not an opinion that once the current wharehouse stock of consumer goods are gone, the replacement goods will be more expensive given the 20% loss of value of £GBP against the $USD. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The £66Bn is the forecast reduction in 15 years time." Considering that post Brexit UK was supposed to be a new brighter land with massive economic opportunities, it is extremely worrying that 15 years later we would be in a hole by £66Bn and not charging off into the future with prosperity as promised. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Fuel prices where already coming down as OPEC are reducing output But fuel goes up and down all yhe time Same as food prices up and down all the time All the experts in the world can predict and forecast cut the giblets ftom a chicken and read the signs !!!!! In the end its guesswork I grant you its informed guesswork but thats all it is The exit is going to happen nothing will stop that not you not your experts so stop putting arguements forward that you hope will derail the exit All your well informed intelligent well read arguements are just smoke and mirrors Just my opinion "I agree that, unless something really unprecedented happens, we will be leaving the EU, that's not really the argument now. The argument now is about how we leave and what relationship we have with the EU. That could be anything from something like Norway (pretty much in the EU in all but name) to Russia (not in the EU and hostile and opposed to it) or any points in-between. So everything to discuss and argue about even more so than during the referendum. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The £66Bn is the forecast reduction in 15 years time. Considering that post Brexit UK was supposed to be a new brighter land with massive economic opportunities, it is extremely worrying that 15 years later we would be in a hole by £66Bn and not charging off into the future with prosperity as promised." I don't know if it is accurate or not, as it was produced for Osbourne to use in his Remain campaign. I'm not arguing one way or the other. But I know this, I export a lot to the the EU. At the moment with Sterling falling , it is good for my company, as my prices for EU customers are lower. Therefore my trade and tiny contribution to GDP has risen. If we went for a full, hard Brexit and went onto WTO rules (which I doubt) we would have tariffs added to our exports into the EU. These tariffs are 10%+ depending on the commodity. Since sterling has fallen, the price of our goods, would be similar to pre-referendum. I struggle to see the reason why export sales would fall. Also in that scenario, HMRC would receive 10%+ on EU imports, adding to government revenues. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Fuel prices where already coming down as OPEC are reducing output But fuel goes up and down all yhe time Same as food prices up and down all the time All the experts in the world can predict and forecast cut the giblets ftom a chicken and read the signs !!!!! In the end its guesswork I grant you its informed guesswork but thats all it is The exit is going to happen nothing will stop that not you not your experts so stop putting arguements forward that you hope will derail the exit All your well informed intelligent well read arguements are just smoke and mirrors Just my opinion "Agreed shame the same amount of effort is,nt put into supporting THEIR county though. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So apart from the doors, no one has said how what government services they are going to cut to find this £66bn in savings. Come on, let us know where you think the axe should fall. or if its a success what are we going to spend the extra £66 billion on Exactly, CLCC talks about the £66bn as if it's fact. It's not a fact it's just a forecast/prediction based on dodgy assumptions. On purely trade terms that just doesn't add up. We are going from completely unrestricted trade with the biggest, largest and nearest market in the world to something more restricted. We are abandoning 53 free (but not totally unrestricted) trade deals with other countries. If we increase our trade with the rest of the world (and there is no guarantee that we will) it won't be in the same totally unrestricted bases that we have now within the EU and even if we do manage to create some sort of Anglo Saxon common/single market or Commonwealth common/single market we'll have exactly the same questions of sovereignty (by whom and how are the single and common set of rules made) as we now have with the EU plus they are all a lot further away. So can that possibly lead to more trade. The reality is is that in terms of trade, outside the European Single Market, we will be somewhere between worse off and a lot worse off than we would have been if we stayed in it. That could mean that we're all poorer than we are now or it could simply mean that were less richer than we would have been but still possibly richer than now." But we will be free to trade with who ever we want if they want to trade with us and not have to put up with EU laws. We may well be worse off for a few years but not forever. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"There has been lots of interesting and intelligent chat but can I say ? I'm worse off now than 3 months ago and can't see how I will be any better off in the near future ? I can see why some companies would be glad of brexit as the goods they export should now be cheaper for their customers in Europe? No one can forecast what will be and wether things will be any better than before? Seems like a Russian roulette way of doing things ? Glad I had my holiday to America pre brexit !! Can't do that again So is there a simple way of looking at this or will it just be a full of arguments and told you so if it doesn't work ? Think all parties should be involved in sorting the brexit deal out ? After all someone will be left in power to sort it all out ? Glad it's not me !!" The thing to remember is prises went up and down before Brexit they will do after we have left the EU. No one knows what will happen until it does its just scaremongering. I do think we will be worse off for a few years but not forever. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"As an importer who has lived with many currency movements over the years, I have to chuckle when commentators concentrate on short term movements, without ever referring to the longer term trends. Context is everything if you want a truthful picture. The recent pre-brexit high points of the pound against the euro were exceptional, highlighting the weakness of the euro zone, and it was not too long ago that sterling was within the 1.12 - 1.18 range, for quite a long term. Big surprise - life is full of ups and downs. 'Twas ever thus." I think we all understand the context of the UK leaving the Single Market, its a fairly substantial long term trend. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"As an importer who has lived with many currency movements over the years, I have to chuckle when commentators concentrate on short term movements, without ever referring to the longer term trends. Context is everything if you want a truthful picture. The recent pre-brexit high points of the pound against the euro were exceptional, highlighting the weakness of the euro zone, and it was not too long ago that sterling was within the 1.12 - 1.18 range, for quite a long term. Big surprise - life is full of ups and downs. 'Twas ever thus. I think we all understand the context of the UK leaving the Single Market, its a fairly substantial long term trend." Do you mean the long term trend will be a continuing reduction in Sterling? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"OP, you have great faith in economic predictions. I do not share your confidence in the ability to make long term predictions. 2007. Fed chair Alan Greenspan stated the world would need double digit interest rates to control inflation. There has been a near zero rate for the vast majority of the time. In 2010, Richard Branson predicted that for five years oil prices would hit an all time high. Five years later, the price was lower. Jean Robinson, one of the twentieth century's most prominent economists, predicted in 1967 that sooner or later North Korea's curtain of lies would begin to tear. In an New York Times bestseller, Prof Ravi Batra predicted imminent global turmoil. 1990 was the beginning of an extended period of boom. AIG's head of finances, Joseph Cassano, stated in 2007 that AIG would not lose a dollar in any credit derivative transaction. The company was bailed out in 2008. I could go on (and on and on). Yet you have unshakeable faith in a forecast of a £66 billion loss. I don't have faith in any economic forecast and I certainly don't have faith in one projected so far into the future when there must be a myriad of assumptions." I do understand your point, really I do, however I think with Brexit I have been convinced by the amount of experts against it, the quality of those experts, and the wide variety of fields that they come from (economy, health, defence, security, education etc.). I have no reason to believe that every single expert is wrong, or that their analysis is fundamentally flawed for some reason. When I look at the other side of the debate, I just can’t see any evidence to support that Brexit is good for either the UK, or the rest of the world. I see a lot of politicians talking it up and newspaper commentary, but I don’t see industry bodies saying that it would be good for the economy or for jobs for example. I could be wrong, but I am basing my opinion of what all the experts say will happen to the economy, can you honestly say that you are basing your opinion of what will happen to the economy on anything other than just blind faith? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"OP, you have great faith in economic predictions. I do not share your confidence in the ability to make long term predictions. 2007. Fed chair Alan Greenspan stated the world would need double digit interest rates to control inflation. There has been a near zero rate for the vast majority of the time. In 2010, Richard Branson predicted that for five years oil prices would hit an all time high. Five years later, the price was lower. Jean Robinson, one of the twentieth century's most prominent economists, predicted in 1967 that sooner or later North Korea's curtain of lies would begin to tear. In an New York Times bestseller, Prof Ravi Batra predicted imminent global turmoil. 1990 was the beginning of an extended period of boom. AIG's head of finances, Joseph Cassano, stated in 2007 that AIG would not lose a dollar in any credit derivative transaction. The company was bailed out in 2008. I could go on (and on and on). Yet you have unshakeable faith in a forecast of a £66 billion loss. I don't have faith in any economic forecast and I certainly don't have faith in one projected so far into the future when there must be a myriad of assumptions. I do understand your point, really I do, however I think with Brexit I have been convinced by the amount of experts against it, the quality of those experts, and the wide variety of fields that they come from (economy, health, defence, security, education etc.). I have no reason to believe that every single expert is wrong, or that their analysis is fundamentally flawed for some reason. When I look at the other side of the debate, I just can’t see any evidence to support that Brexit is good for either the UK, or the rest of the world. I see a lot of politicians talking it up and newspaper commentary, but I don’t see industry bodies saying that it would be good for the economy or for jobs for example. I could be wrong, but I am basing my opinion of what all the experts say will happen to the economy, can you honestly say that you are basing your opinion of what will happen to the economy on anything other than just blind faith?" If mixedbcouple were still here I have no doubt that they would be asking you what the Briar score of these so called experts is. Briar score rating of success on past predictions, so what are their Briar scores and how successful have these experts forecasts been previously? (In the cases of the IMF and the CBI they have been shown and proven to have extremely poor judgement in the past). | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"OP, you have great faith in economic predictions. I do not share your confidence in the ability to make long term predictions. 2007. Fed chair Alan Greenspan stated the world would need double digit interest rates to control inflation. There has been a near zero rate for the vast majority of the time. In 2010, Richard Branson predicted that for five years oil prices would hit an all time high. Five years later, the price was lower. Jean Robinson, one of the twentieth century's most prominent economists, predicted in 1967 that sooner or later North Korea's curtain of lies would begin to tear. In an New York Times bestseller, Prof Ravi Batra predicted imminent global turmoil. 1990 was the beginning of an extended period of boom. AIG's head of finances, Joseph Cassano, stated in 2007 that AIG would not lose a dollar in any credit derivative transaction. The company was bailed out in 2008. I could go on (and on and on). Yet you have unshakeable faith in a forecast of a £66 billion loss. I don't have faith in any economic forecast and I certainly don't have faith in one projected so far into the future when there must be a myriad of assumptions. I do understand your point, really I do, however I think with Brexit I have been convinced by the amount of experts against it, the quality of those experts, and the wide variety of fields that they come from (economy, health, defence, security, education etc.). I have no reason to believe that every single expert is wrong, or that their analysis is fundamentally flawed for some reason. When I look at the other side of the debate, I just can’t see any evidence to support that Brexit is good for either the UK, or the rest of the world. I see a lot of politicians talking it up and newspaper commentary, but I don’t see industry bodies saying that it would be good for the economy or for jobs for example. I could be wrong, but I am basing my opinion of what all the experts say will happen to the economy, can you honestly say that you are basing your opinion of what will happen to the economy on anything other than just blind faith? If mixedbcouple were still here I have no doubt that they would be asking you what the Briar score of these so called experts is. Briar score rating of success on past predictions, so what are their Briar scores and how successful have these experts forecasts been previously? (In the cases of the IMF and the CBI they have been shown and proven to have extremely poor judgement in the past). " What is the Brier score of the organisations saying that Brexit will make us richer? Hell, forget about their Brier scores, what are their names? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"OP, you have great faith in economic predictions. I do not share your confidence in the ability to make long term predictions. 2007. Fed chair Alan Greenspan stated the world would need double digit interest rates to control inflation. There has been a near zero rate for the vast majority of the time. In 2010, Richard Branson predicted that for five years oil prices would hit an all time high. Five years later, the price was lower. Jean Robinson, one of the twentieth century's most prominent economists, predicted in 1967 that sooner or later North Korea's curtain of lies would begin to tear. In an New York Times bestseller, Prof Ravi Batra predicted imminent global turmoil. 1990 was the beginning of an extended period of boom. AIG's head of finances, Joseph Cassano, stated in 2007 that AIG would not lose a dollar in any credit derivative transaction. The company was bailed out in 2008. I could go on (and on and on). Yet you have unshakeable faith in a forecast of a £66 billion loss. I don't have faith in any economic forecast and I certainly don't have faith in one projected so far into the future when there must be a myriad of assumptions. I do understand your point, really I do, however I think with Brexit I have been convinced by the amount of experts against it, the quality of those experts, and the wide variety of fields that they come from (economy, health, defence, security, education etc.). I have no reason to believe that every single expert is wrong, or that their analysis is fundamentally flawed for some reason. When I look at the other side of the debate, I just can’t see any evidence to support that Brexit is good for either the UK, or the rest of the world. I see a lot of politicians talking it up and newspaper commentary, but I don’t see industry bodies saying that it would be good for the economy or for jobs for example. I could be wrong, but I am basing my opinion of what all the experts say will happen to the economy, can you honestly say that you are basing your opinion of what will happen to the economy on anything other than just blind faith?" I base it on my belief and understanding. Not on any so-called expert. I base it on my belief that the EU is not conducive to our trade or culture. I base it on my belief that the EU is going to crumble and fail as an institution. But, heck, there are no surveys to back me up on that, so I can't say what will happen in n 15 years time. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"OP, you have great faith in economic predictions. I do not share your confidence in the ability to make long term predictions. 2007. Fed chair Alan Greenspan stated the world would need double digit interest rates to control inflation. There has been a near zero rate for the vast majority of the time. In 2010, Richard Branson predicted that for five years oil prices would hit an all time high. Five years later, the price was lower. Jean Robinson, one of the twentieth century's most prominent economists, predicted in 1967 that sooner or later North Korea's curtain of lies would begin to tear. In an New York Times bestseller, Prof Ravi Batra predicted imminent global turmoil. 1990 was the beginning of an extended period of boom. AIG's head of finances, Joseph Cassano, stated in 2007 that AIG would not lose a dollar in any credit derivative transaction. The company was bailed out in 2008. I could go on (and on and on). Yet you have unshakeable faith in a forecast of a £66 billion loss. I don't have faith in any economic forecast and I certainly don't have faith in one projected so far into the future when there must be a myriad of assumptions. I do understand your point, really I do, however I think with Brexit I have been convinced by the amount of experts against it, the quality of those experts, and the wide variety of fields that they come from (economy, health, defence, security, education etc.). I have no reason to believe that every single expert is wrong, or that their analysis is fundamentally flawed for some reason. When I look at the other side of the debate, I just can’t see any evidence to support that Brexit is good for either the UK, or the rest of the world. I see a lot of politicians talking it up and newspaper commentary, but I don’t see industry bodies saying that it would be good for the economy or for jobs for example. I could be wrong, but I am basing my opinion of what all the experts say will happen to the economy, can you honestly say that you are basing your opinion of what will happen to the economy on anything other than just blind faith? I base it on my belief and understanding. Not on any so-called expert. I base it on my belief that the EU is not conducive to our trade or culture. I base it on my belief that the EU is going to crumble and fail as an institution. But, heck, there are no surveys to back me up on that, so I can't say what will happen in n 15 years time." It's fine that you think that you know better than all the experts, but my problem is that you have imposed your blind faith on the rest of the country. That you have gambled our future on no evidence to support your case.  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"OP, you have great faith in economic predictions. I do not share your confidence in the ability to make long term predictions. 2007. Fed chair Alan Greenspan stated the world would need double digit interest rates to control inflation. There has been a near zero rate for the vast majority of the time. In 2010, Richard Branson predicted that for five years oil prices would hit an all time high. Five years later, the price was lower. Jean Robinson, one of the twentieth century's most prominent economists, predicted in 1967 that sooner or later North Korea's curtain of lies would begin to tear. In an New York Times bestseller, Prof Ravi Batra predicted imminent global turmoil. 1990 was the beginning of an extended period of boom. AIG's head of finances, Joseph Cassano, stated in 2007 that AIG would not lose a dollar in any credit derivative transaction. The company was bailed out in 2008. I could go on (and on and on). Yet you have unshakeable faith in a forecast of a £66 billion loss. I don't have faith in any economic forecast and I certainly don't have faith in one projected so far into the future when there must be a myriad of assumptions. I do understand your point, really I do, however I think with Brexit I have been convinced by the amount of experts against it, the quality of those experts, and the wide variety of fields that they come from (economy, health, defence, security, education etc.). I have no reason to believe that every single expert is wrong, or that their analysis is fundamentally flawed for some reason. When I look at the other side of the debate, I just can’t see any evidence to support that Brexit is good for either the UK, or the rest of the world. I see a lot of politicians talking it up and newspaper commentary, but I don’t see industry bodies saying that it would be good for the economy or for jobs for example. I could be wrong, but I am basing my opinion of what all the experts say will happen to the economy, can you honestly say that you are basing your opinion of what will happen to the economy on anything other than just blind faith? I base it on my belief and understanding. Not on any so-called expert. I base it on my belief that the EU is not conducive to our trade or culture. I base it on my belief that the EU is going to crumble and fail as an institution. But, heck, there are no surveys to back me up on that, so I can't say what will happen in n 15 years time. It's fine that you think that you know better than all the experts, but my problem is that you have imposed your blind faith on the rest of the country. That you have gambled our future on no evidence to support your case. "I stated the value of experts. You put your faith in them. I put my faith in my understanding of the world. Blind faith? No. Logic. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"OP, you have great faith in economic predictions. I do not share your confidence in the ability to make long term predictions. 2007. Fed chair Alan Greenspan stated the world would need double digit interest rates to control inflation. There has been a near zero rate for the vast majority of the time. In 2010, Richard Branson predicted that for five years oil prices would hit an all time high. Five years later, the price was lower. Jean Robinson, one of the twentieth century's most prominent economists, predicted in 1967 that sooner or later North Korea's curtain of lies would begin to tear. In an New York Times bestseller, Prof Ravi Batra predicted imminent global turmoil. 1990 was the beginning of an extended period of boom. AIG's head of finances, Joseph Cassano, stated in 2007 that AIG would not lose a dollar in any credit derivative transaction. The company was bailed out in 2008. I could go on (and on and on). Yet you have unshakeable faith in a forecast of a £66 billion loss. I don't have faith in any economic forecast and I certainly don't have faith in one projected so far into the future when there must be a myriad of assumptions. I do understand your point, really I do, however I think with Brexit I have been convinced by the amount of experts against it, the quality of those experts, and the wide variety of fields that they come from (economy, health, defence, security, education etc.). I have no reason to believe that every single expert is wrong, or that their analysis is fundamentally flawed for some reason. When I look at the other side of the debate, I just can’t see any evidence to support that Brexit is good for either the UK, or the rest of the world. I see a lot of politicians talking it up and newspaper commentary, but I don’t see industry bodies saying that it would be good for the economy or for jobs for example. I could be wrong, but I am basing my opinion of what all the experts say will happen to the economy, can you honestly say that you are basing your opinion of what will happen to the economy on anything other than just blind faith? I base it on my belief and understanding. Not on any so-called expert. I base it on my belief that the EU is not conducive to our trade or culture. I base it on my belief that the EU is going to crumble and fail as an institution. But, heck, there are no surveys to back me up on that, so I can't say what will happen in n 15 years time. It's fine that you think that you know better than all the experts, but my problem is that you have imposed your blind faith on the rest of the country. That you have gambled our future on no evidence to support your case.
I stated the value of experts. You put your faith in them. I put my faith in my understanding of the world.
Blind faith? No. Logic."Sounds more like a definition of ignorance to me. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"OP, you have great faith in economic predictions. I do not share your confidence in the ability to make long term predictions. 2007. Fed chair Alan Greenspan stated the world would need double digit interest rates to control inflation. There has been a near zero rate for the vast majority of the time. In 2010, Richard Branson predicted that for five years oil prices would hit an all time high. Five years later, the price was lower. Jean Robinson, one of the twentieth century's most prominent economists, predicted in 1967 that sooner or later North Korea's curtain of lies would begin to tear. In an New York Times bestseller, Prof Ravi Batra predicted imminent global turmoil. 1990 was the beginning of an extended period of boom. AIG's head of finances, Joseph Cassano, stated in 2007 that AIG would not lose a dollar in any credit derivative transaction. The company was bailed out in 2008. I could go on (and on and on). Yet you have unshakeable faith in a forecast of a £66 billion loss. I don't have faith in any economic forecast and I certainly don't have faith in one projected so far into the future when there must be a myriad of assumptions. I do understand your point, really I do, however I think with Brexit I have been convinced by the amount of experts against it, the quality of those experts, and the wide variety of fields that they come from (economy, health, defence, security, education etc.). I have no reason to believe that every single expert is wrong, or that their analysis is fundamentally flawed for some reason. When I look at the other side of the debate, I just can’t see any evidence to support that Brexit is good for either the UK, or the rest of the world. I see a lot of politicians talking it up and newspaper commentary, but I don’t see industry bodies saying that it would be good for the economy or for jobs for example. I could be wrong, but I am basing my opinion of what all the experts say will happen to the economy, can you honestly say that you are basing your opinion of what will happen to the economy on anything other than just blind faith? I base it on my belief and understanding. Not on any so-called expert. I base it on my belief that the EU is not conducive to our trade or culture. I base it on my belief that the EU is going to crumble and fail as an institution. But, heck, there are no surveys to back me up on that, so I can't say what will happen in n 15 years time. It's fine that you think that you know better than all the experts, but my problem is that you have imposed your blind faith on the rest of the country. That you have gambled our future on no evidence to support your case.
I stated the value of experts. You put your faith in them. I put my faith in my understanding of the world.
Blind faith? No. Logic.
Sounds more like a definition of ignorance to me. "It sounds more like personal responsibility to me, as opposed to a strange faith in so-called experts that espouse your beliefs. But you are welcome to hold onto your views. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Yeah but 'we' will have taken back control, no more forruns or brown people. Sounds like a small price to pay" | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"OP, you have great faith in economic predictions. I do not share your confidence in the ability to make long term predictions. 2007. Fed chair Alan Greenspan stated the world would need double digit interest rates to control inflation. There has been a near zero rate for the vast majority of the time. In 2010, Richard Branson predicted that for five years oil prices would hit an all time high. Five years later, the price was lower. Jean Robinson, one of the twentieth century's most prominent economists, predicted in 1967 that sooner or later North Korea's curtain of lies would begin to tear. In an New York Times bestseller, Prof Ravi Batra predicted imminent global turmoil. 1990 was the beginning of an extended period of boom. AIG's head of finances, Joseph Cassano, stated in 2007 that AIG would not lose a dollar in any credit derivative transaction. The company was bailed out in 2008. I could go on (and on and on). Yet you have unshakeable faith in a forecast of a £66 billion loss. I don't have faith in any economic forecast and I certainly don't have faith in one projected so far into the future when there must be a myriad of assumptions."  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So leaked Treasury documents show that a Hard Brexit will cost the UK between £38bn and £66bn per year in lost tax revenues. So what services do you think we should cut? The MOD costs us £45bn a year, so even if we scrapped it entirely, we would still be £21bn sh We could cut Education, close down all of those schools and universities (cos who needs experts right ) that would save us £38bn, so if we take the lower estimate that would cover all of it, simples, however if we take the higher number we are still £28bn short, so I guess we would also have to cut quite heavily elsewhere.
Or Health, those Brexitier tell us that load of our health budget is spent on foreigners anyway, so if we cut 48% of the health budget, we probably wouldn’t even notice, right? Just sack half the nurses, close half the hospitals, close half the GPs surgeries, get rid of half of the ambulances etc.
Or as so many pensioners voted for Brexit, maybe we should take it from the pension budget, and cut that by 42%? Thats what they voted for, right?
So what do you think we should cut to find £66bn of savings each year? Or do you think maybe we should scrap the idea of a “Hard Brexit” after all?"More bollocks they always get these things wrong go live in Poland if you want the EU | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"OP, you have great faith in economic predictions. I do not share your confidence in the ability to make long term predictions. 2007. Fed chair Alan Greenspan stated the world would need double digit interest rates to control inflation. There has been a near zero rate for the vast majority of the time. In 2010, Richard Branson predicted that for five years oil prices would hit an all time high. Five years later, the price was lower. Jean Robinson, one of the twentieth century's most prominent economists, predicted in 1967 that sooner or later North Korea's curtain of lies would begin to tear. In an New York Times bestseller, Prof Ravi Batra predicted imminent global turmoil. 1990 was the beginning of an extended period of boom. AIG's head of finances, Joseph Cassano, stated in 2007 that AIG would not lose a dollar in any credit derivative transaction. The company was bailed out in 2008. I could go on (and on and on). Yet you have unshakeable faith in a forecast of a £66 billion loss. I don't have faith in any economic forecast and I certainly don't have faith in one projected so far into the future when there must be a myriad of assumptions. I do understand your point, really I do, however I think with Brexit I have been convinced by the amount of experts against it, the quality of those experts, and the wide variety of fields that they come from (economy, health, defence, security, education etc.). I have no reason to believe that every single expert is wrong, or that their analysis is fundamentally flawed for some reason. When I look at the other side of the debate, I just can’t see any evidence to support that Brexit is good for either the UK, or the rest of the world. I see a lot of politicians talking it up and newspaper commentary, but I don’t see industry bodies saying that it would be good for the economy or for jobs for example. I could be wrong, but I am basing my opinion of what all the experts say will happen to the economy, can you honestly say that you are basing your opinion of what will happen to the economy on anything other than just blind faith? If mixedbcouple were still here I have no doubt that they would be asking you what the Briar score of these so called experts is. Briar score rating of success on past predictions, so what are their Briar scores and how successful have these experts forecasts been previously? (In the cases of the IMF and the CBI they have been shown and proven to have extremely poor judgement in the past). What is the Brier score of the organisations saying that Brexit will make us richer? Hell, forget about their Brier scores, what are their names? " Plenty of experts supported Brexit during the referendum campaign and still do now, plenty of politicians from all parties, plenty of business leaders, the economists for Brexit group, ex director general of the British Chambers of Commerce John Longworth, ex director general of the CBI Digby Jones, ex governor of the Bank of England Mervyn King, I could go on (and on and on and on) but I think you get the general idea. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"OP, you have great faith in economic predictions. I do not share your confidence in the ability to make long term predictions. 2007. Fed chair Alan Greenspan stated the world would need double digit interest rates to control inflation. There has been a near zero rate for the vast majority of the time. In 2010, Richard Branson predicted that for five years oil prices would hit an all time high. Five years later, the price was lower. Jean Robinson, one of the twentieth century's most prominent economists, predicted in 1967 that sooner or later North Korea's curtain of lies would begin to tear. In an New York Times bestseller, Prof Ravi Batra predicted imminent global turmoil. 1990 was the beginning of an extended period of boom. AIG's head of finances, Joseph Cassano, stated in 2007 that AIG would not lose a dollar in any credit derivative transaction. The company was bailed out in 2008. I could go on (and on and on). Yet you have unshakeable faith in a forecast of a £66 billion loss. I don't have faith in any economic forecast and I certainly don't have faith in one projected so far into the future when there must be a myriad of assumptions. I do understand your point, really I do, however I think with Brexit I have been convinced by the amount of experts against it, the quality of those experts, and the wide variety of fields that they come from (economy, health, defence, security, education etc.). I have no reason to believe that every single expert is wrong, or that their analysis is fundamentally flawed for some reason. When I look at the other side of the debate, I just can’t see any evidence to support that Brexit is good for either the UK, or the rest of the world. I see a lot of politicians talking it up and newspaper commentary, but I don’t see industry bodies saying that it would be good for the economy or for jobs for example. I could be wrong, but I am basing my opinion of what all the experts say will happen to the economy, can you honestly say that you are basing your opinion of what will happen to the economy on anything other than just blind faith? If mixedbcouple were still here I have no doubt that they would be asking you what the Briar score of these so called experts is. Briar score rating of success on past predictions, so what are their Briar scores and how successful have these experts forecasts been previously? (In the cases of the IMF and the CBI they have been shown and proven to have extremely poor judgement in the past). What is the Brier score of the organisations saying that Brexit will make us richer? Hell, forget about their Brier scores, what are their names? Plenty of experts supported Brexit during the referendum campaign and still do now, plenty of politicians from all parties, plenty of business leaders, the economists for Brexit group, ex director general of the British Chambers of Commerce John Longworth, ex director general of the CBI Digby Jones, ex governor of the Bank of England Mervyn King, I could go on (and on and on and on) but I think you get the general idea. " No, I dont. You have named individuals and politicians, not organisations as I asked, with the exception of one solely created to campaign for Brexit, so hardly a credible independent organisation. Look at international organisations like the World Bank or IMF, is there another similar organisation that supported Brexit? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Here's a thought. We might be £66 billion richer when companies currently in the EU locate some of their operations to the UK to take advantage of the free trade deals we will make around the world "You've got chance of being shagged by the Pope.... | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"OP, you have great faith in economic predictions. I do not share your confidence in the ability to make long term predictions. 2007. Fed chair Alan Greenspan stated the world would need double digit interest rates to control inflation. There has been a near zero rate for the vast majority of the time. In 2010, Richard Branson predicted that for five years oil prices would hit an all time high. Five years later, the price was lower. Jean Robinson, one of the twentieth century's most prominent economists, predicted in 1967 that sooner or later North Korea's curtain of lies would begin to tear. In an New York Times bestseller, Prof Ravi Batra predicted imminent global turmoil. 1990 was the beginning of an extended period of boom. AIG's head of finances, Joseph Cassano, stated in 2007 that AIG would not lose a dollar in any credit derivative transaction. The company was bailed out in 2008. I could go on (and on and on). Yet you have unshakeable faith in a forecast of a £66 billion loss. I don't have faith in any economic forecast and I certainly don't have faith in one projected so far into the future when there must be a myriad of assumptions. I do understand your point, really I do, however I think with Brexit I have been convinced by the amount of experts against it, the quality of those experts, and the wide variety of fields that they come from (economy, health, defence, security, education etc.). I have no reason to believe that every single expert is wrong, or that their analysis is fundamentally flawed for some reason. When I look at the other side of the debate, I just can’t see any evidence to support that Brexit is good for either the UK, or the rest of the world. I see a lot of politicians talking it up and newspaper commentary, but I don’t see industry bodies saying that it would be good for the economy or for jobs for example. I could be wrong, but I am basing my opinion of what all the experts say will happen to the economy, can you honestly say that you are basing your opinion of what will happen to the economy on anything other than just blind faith? If mixedbcouple were still here I have no doubt that they would be asking you what the Briar score of these so called experts is. Briar score rating of success on past predictions, so what are their Briar scores and how successful have these experts forecasts been previously? (In the cases of the IMF and the CBI they have been shown and proven to have extremely poor judgement in the past). What is the Brier score of the organisations saying that Brexit will make us richer? Hell, forget about their Brier scores, what are their names? Plenty of experts supported Brexit during the referendum campaign and still do now, plenty of politicians from all parties, plenty of business leaders, the economists for Brexit group, ex director general of the British Chambers of Commerce John Longworth, ex director general of the CBI Digby Jones, ex governor of the Bank of England Mervyn King, I could go on (and on and on and on) but I think you get the general idea. No, I dont. You have named individuals and politicians, not organisations as I asked, with the exception of one solely created to campaign for Brexit, so hardly a credible independent organisation. Look at international organisations like the World Bank or IMF, is there another similar organisation that supported Brexit? " Many of the organisations you have named on various threads are not fully independent either as many of them get a good level of EU funding, (such as the CBI) so of course their views are going to be biased in favour of Remain. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"OP, you have great faith in economic predictions. I do not share your confidence in the ability to make long term predictions. 2007. Fed chair Alan Greenspan stated the world would need double digit interest rates to control inflation. There has been a near zero rate for the vast majority of the time. In 2010, Richard Branson predicted that for five years oil prices would hit an all time high. Five years later, the price was lower. Jean Robinson, one of the twentieth century's most prominent economists, predicted in 1967 that sooner or later North Korea's curtain of lies would begin to tear. In an New York Times bestseller, Prof Ravi Batra predicted imminent global turmoil. 1990 was the beginning of an extended period of boom. AIG's head of finances, Joseph Cassano, stated in 2007 that AIG would not lose a dollar in any credit derivative transaction. The company was bailed out in 2008. I could go on (and on and on). Yet you have unshakeable faith in a forecast of a £66 billion loss. I don't have faith in any economic forecast and I certainly don't have faith in one projected so far into the future when there must be a myriad of assumptions. I do understand your point, really I do, however I think with Brexit I have been convinced by the amount of experts against it, the quality of those experts, and the wide variety of fields that they come from (economy, health, defence, security, education etc.). I have no reason to believe that every single expert is wrong, or that their analysis is fundamentally flawed for some reason. When I look at the other side of the debate, I just can’t see any evidence to support that Brexit is good for either the UK, or the rest of the world. I see a lot of politicians talking it up and newspaper commentary, but I don’t see industry bodies saying that it would be good for the economy or for jobs for example. I could be wrong, but I am basing my opinion of what all the experts say will happen to the economy, can you honestly say that you are basing your opinion of what will happen to the economy on anything other than just blind faith? I base it on my belief and understanding. Not on any so-called expert. I base it on my belief that the EU is not conducive to our trade or culture. I base it on my belief that the EU is going to crumble and fail as an institution. But, heck, there are no surveys to back me up on that, so I can't say what will happen in n 15 years time. It's fine that you think that you know better than all the experts, but my problem is that you have imposed your blind faith on the rest of the country. That you have gambled our future on no evidence to support your case.
I stated the value of experts. You put your faith in them. I put my faith in my understanding of the world.
Blind faith? No. Logic."Them maybe you can explain your logic because it seems to me that to believe that taking actions that will reduce the amount of trade we do with our largest, wealthiest and closest customer in the hope that we might, at some point in the future, do more trade with customers who are nearly all smaller, poorer and further away is actually going to make us better of is totally illogical? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Fuel prices where already coming down as OPEC are reducing output But fuel goes up and down all yhe time Same as food prices up and down all the time All the experts in the world can predict and forecast cut the giblets ftom a chicken and read the signs !!!!! In the end its guesswork I grant you its informed guesswork but thats all it is The exit is going to happen nothing will stop that not you not your experts so stop putting arguements forward that you hope will derail the exit All your well informed intelligent well read arguements are just smoke and mirrors Just my opinion
Agreed shame the same amount of effort is,nt put into supporting THEIR county though. "But we are supporting our own count(r)y. You're the ones who've sold your people out to economic uncertainty and sold your country out to possible breakup and disunity. And all for a bunch of meaningless slogans. How's that putting any effort into supporting your own country. Sounds more like sedition, treachery and a good does of perfidy to me. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Fuel prices where already coming down as OPEC are reducing output But fuel goes up and down all yhe time Same as food prices up and down all the time All the experts in the world can predict and forecast cut the giblets ftom a chicken and read the signs !!!!! In the end its guesswork I grant you its informed guesswork but thats all it is The exit is going to happen nothing will stop that not you not your experts so stop putting arguements forward that you hope will derail the exit All your well informed intelligent well read arguements are just smoke and mirrors Just my opinion
Agreed shame the same amount of effort is,nt put into supporting THEIR county though.
But we are supporting our own count(r)y. You're the ones who've sold your people out to economic uncertainty and sold your country out to possible breakup and disunity. And all for a bunch of meaningless slogans. How's that putting any effort into supporting your own country. Sounds more like sedition, treachery and a good does of perfidy to me. "Just maybe we thought that the EU was a doomed institution up its own ass, unable to account for its income and expenditure and hell-bent on greater control. That really does not sound like sedition or treachery. Quite the opposite. We could not reform it so decided it was time to leave it. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I've seen some ridiculous numbers but £66bn in lost tax revenue is preposterous "London is the current capital of European banking and the sector contributes £30 billion a year to the Treasury. The UK will almost certainly lose its passporting rights and therefore the banking sector will gradually dissolve as foreign banks relocate to an EU country and U.K. domiciled banks close down their European trading floors. Considering that just one sector that contributes £30 billion a year WILL (not could) be decimated by the loss of passporting rights (as a direct consequence of exiting the single market), it is not inconceivable that tax receipts of £60 billion or more could be lost across the whole of the UK. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Fuel prices where already coming down as OPEC are reducing output But fuel goes up and down all yhe time Same as food prices up and down all the time All the experts in the world can predict and forecast cut the giblets ftom a chicken and read the signs !!!!! In the end its guesswork I grant you its informed guesswork but thats all it is The exit is going to happen nothing will stop that not you not your experts so stop putting arguements forward that you hope will derail the exit All your well informed intelligent well read arguements are just smoke and mirrors Just my opinion
Agreed shame the same amount of effort is,nt put into supporting THEIR county though.
But we are supporting our own count(r)y. You're the ones who've sold your people out to economic uncertainty and sold your country out to possible breakup and disunity. And all for a bunch of meaningless slogans. How's that putting any effort into supporting your own country. Sounds more like sedition, treachery and a good does of perfidy to me. "I'll tell you what real treachery is, it's wanting to hand over all our sovereignty to the EU on a plate, making EU law supreme over UK law and taking power away from our Parliament in Westminster and transferring it over to the Eurocrats in Brussels. Remainers like you would see our parliamentary democracy destroyed and our country swallowed up by a Federal United States of Europe. Some would call it treason, people like you are no better than Guy Fawkes. Maybe we should make an effigy of you and put it on a bonfire on November 5th instead of old Guy Fawkes. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I've seen some ridiculous numbers but £66bn in lost tax revenue is preposterous
London is the current capital of European banking and the sector contributes £30 billion a year to the Treasury. The UK will almost certainly lose its passporting rights and therefore the banking sector will gradually dissolve as foreign banks relocate to an EU country and U.K. domiciled banks close down their European trading floors.
Considering that just one sector that contributes £30 billion a year WILL (not could) be decimated by the loss of passporting rights (as a direct consequence of exiting the single market), it is not inconceivable that tax receipts of £60 billion or more could be lost across the whole of the UK."Nothing except the impossible is inconceivable. Why not concentrate on the positives? Including the fact that we will no longer be tethered to this silly, outdated, politically and philosophically unjustifiable institution? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I've seen some ridiculous numbers but £66bn in lost tax revenue is preposterous
London is the current capital of European banking and the sector contributes £30 billion a year to the Treasury. The UK will almost certainly lose its passporting rights and therefore the banking sector will gradually dissolve as foreign banks relocate to an EU country and U.K. domiciled banks close down their European trading floors.
Considering that just one sector that contributes £30 billion a year WILL (not could) be decimated by the loss of passporting rights (as a direct consequence of exiting the single market), it is not inconceivable that tax receipts of £60 billion or more could be lost across the whole of the UK."It's not a certainty the UK will lose its financial passporting rights at all. That is a massive assumption and pure guesswork on your part. Was discussed in Parliament a few days ago and the government is very confident all current passporting rights will be maintained. London is not only the capital of European banking it is one of the global capitals of banking worldwide. Remainers need to realise there is a whole wide world out there beyond the borders of the EU. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Fuel prices where already coming down as OPEC are reducing output But fuel goes up and down all yhe time Same as food prices up and down all the time All the experts in the world can predict and forecast cut the giblets ftom a chicken and read the signs !!!!! In the end its guesswork I grant you its informed guesswork but thats all it is The exit is going to happen nothing will stop that not you not your experts so stop putting arguements forward that you hope will derail the exit All your well informed intelligent well read arguements are just smoke and mirrors Just my opinion
Agreed shame the same amount of effort is,nt put into supporting THEIR county though.
But we are supporting our own count(r)y. You're the ones who've sold your people out to economic uncertainty and sold your country out to possible breakup and disunity. And all for a bunch of meaningless slogans. How's that putting any effort into supporting your own country. Sounds more like sedition, treachery and a good does of perfidy to me.
Just maybe we thought that the EU was a doomed institution up its own ass, unable to account for its income and expenditure and hell-bent on greater control. That really does not sound like sedition or treachery. Quite the opposite.
We could not reform it so decided it was time to leave it. "You might have thought lots of things, I don't know what you thought or really think now. All I do know is that you seen to be hell bent on creating as much disunity as possible between the UK and the EU and between the nations of the UK and the peoples legally living here in the UK (that's sedition). Many of you have said you know we'll be worse of but "don't give a shit" - acting to make your people and country worse of (that's treachery) and you've lied to your people (£350 million a day) to deceive them into believing what your trying to do is best for them (that's perfidy). So yes, it really does sound like sedition, treachery and perfidy to me. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Fuel prices where already coming down as OPEC are reducing output But fuel goes up and down all yhe time Same as food prices up and down all the time All the experts in the world can predict and forecast cut the giblets ftom a chicken and read the signs !!!!! In the end its guesswork I grant you its informed guesswork but thats all it is The exit is going to happen nothing will stop that not you not your experts so stop putting arguements forward that you hope will derail the exit All your well informed intelligent well read arguements are just smoke and mirrors Just my opinion
Agreed shame the same amount of effort is,nt put into supporting THEIR county though.
But we are supporting our own count(r)y. You're the ones who've sold your people out to economic uncertainty and sold your country out to possible breakup and disunity. And all for a bunch of meaningless slogans. How's that putting any effort into supporting your own country. Sounds more like sedition, treachery and a good does of perfidy to me.
Just maybe we thought that the EU was a doomed institution up its own ass, unable to account for its income and expenditure and hell-bent on greater control. That really does not sound like sedition or treachery. Quite the opposite.
We could not reform it so decided it was time to leave it.
You might have thought lots of things, I don't know what you thought or really think now. All I do know is that you seen to be hell bent on creating as much disunity as possible between the UK and the EU and between the nations of the UK and the peoples legally living here in the UK (that's sedition). Many of you have said you know we'll be worse of but "don't give a shit" - acting to make your people and country worse of (that's treachery) and you've lied to your people (£350 million a day) to deceive them into believing what your trying to do is best for them (that's perfidy).
So yes, it really does sound like sedition, treachery and perfidy to me."Erm, you're confusing me with someone else entirely. I voted Brexit. I did not swallow all the propaganda. As for creating disunity with people living in this country, why the fook would you ever assume that was my motive? I have told you why I decided. Ascribe whatever ulterior motives you want. They don't exist. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Fuel prices where already coming down as OPEC are reducing output But fuel goes up and down all yhe time Same as food prices up and down all the time All the experts in the world can predict and forecast cut the giblets ftom a chicken and read the signs !!!!! In the end its guesswork I grant you its informed guesswork but thats all it is The exit is going to happen nothing will stop that not you not your experts so stop putting arguements forward that you hope will derail the exit All your well informed intelligent well read arguements are just smoke and mirrors Just my opinion
Agreed shame the same amount of effort is,nt put into supporting THEIR county though.
But we are supporting our own count(r)y. You're the ones who've sold your people out to economic uncertainty and sold your country out to possible breakup and disunity. And all for a bunch of meaningless slogans. How's that putting any effort into supporting your own country. Sounds more like sedition, treachery and a good does of perfidy to me.
I'll tell you what real treachery is, it's wanting to hand over all our sovereignty to the EU on a plate, making EU law supreme over UK law and taking power away from our Parliament in Westminster and transferring it over to the Eurocrats in Brussels. Remainers like you would see our parliamentary democracy destroyed and our country swallowed up by a Federal United States of Europe. Some would call it treason, people like you are no better than Guy Fawkes. Maybe we should make an effigy of you and put it on a bonfire on November 5th instead of old Guy Fawkes. "The fact that we can legally leave the EU is proof that no sovereignty was ever permanently handed over to the EU and that Parliament, and parliament alone, remains sovereign in the UK as it has since 1688. The only real threat to Parliamentary sovereignty comes from where it has always come from, the executive(government). As for your comments about burning effigies I'll just put that down to you now not just wanting a hard BREXIT but a "well 'ard BREXIT" to. I'm afraid idle threats of violence won't stop those of us who actually really do love our country and want what's best for it and all the people who live in it won't be put of by that. I've faced far more scary things than you defending what I believe to be right, I'm not going to stop now. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I've seen some ridiculous numbers but £66bn in lost tax revenue is preposterous
London is the current capital of European banking and the sector contributes £30 billion a year to the Treasury. The UK will almost certainly lose its passporting rights and therefore the banking sector will gradually dissolve as foreign banks relocate to an EU country and U.K. domiciled banks close down their European trading floors.
Considering that just one sector that contributes £30 billion a year WILL (not could) be decimated by the loss of passporting rights (as a direct consequence of exiting the single market), it is not inconceivable that tax receipts of £60 billion or more could be lost across the whole of the UK.
It's not a certainty the UK will lose its financial passporting rights at all. That is a massive assumption and pure guesswork on your part. Was discussed in Parliament a few days ago and the government is very confident all current passporting rights will be maintained. London is not only the capital of European banking it is one of the global capitals of banking worldwide. Remainers need to realise there is a whole wide world out there beyond the borders of the EU. "Put it would definitely be a certainty we would keep them, and the £30 billions, if we weren't leaving the single market. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Fuel prices where already coming down as OPEC are reducing output But fuel goes up and down all yhe time Same as food prices up and down all the time All the experts in the world can predict and forecast cut the giblets ftom a chicken and read the signs !!!!! In the end its guesswork I grant you its informed guesswork but thats all it is The exit is going to happen nothing will stop that not you not your experts so stop putting arguements forward that you hope will derail the exit All your well informed intelligent well read arguements are just smoke and mirrors Just my opinion
Agreed shame the same amount of effort is,nt put into supporting THEIR county though.
But we are supporting our own count(r)y. You're the ones who've sold your people out to economic uncertainty and sold your country out to possible breakup and disunity. And all for a bunch of meaningless slogans. How's that putting any effort into supporting your own country. Sounds more like sedition, treachery and a good does of perfidy to me.
Just maybe we thought that the EU was a doomed institution up its own ass, unable to account for its income and expenditure and hell-bent on greater control. That really does not sound like sedition or treachery. Quite the opposite.
We could not reform it so decided it was time to leave it.
You might have thought lots of things, I don't know what you thought or really think now. All I do know is that you seen to be hell bent on creating as much disunity as possible between the UK and the EU and between the nations of the UK and the peoples legally living here in the UK (that's sedition). Many of you have said you know we'll be worse of but "don't give a shit" - acting to make your people and country worse of (that's treachery) and you've lied to your people (£350 million a day) to deceive them into believing what your trying to do is best for them (that's perfidy).
So yes, it really does sound like sedition, treachery and perfidy to me.
Erm, you're confusing me with someone else entirely.
I voted Brexit. I did not swallow all the propaganda.
As for creating disunity with people living in this country, why the fook would you ever assume that was my motive?
I have told you why I decided. Ascribe whatever ulterior motives you want. They don't exist."Like I said, I don't know what you (2nd person singular) actually think or thought but you (2nd person plural) all seem to me to be acting in a way that is seditious, treacherous and perfidious. I can't ascribe any other motives to it because they simply don't add up in any logical, reasonable, sensible or meaningful way. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Fuel prices where already coming down as OPEC are reducing output But fuel goes up and down all yhe time Same as food prices up and down all the time All the experts in the world can predict and forecast cut the giblets ftom a chicken and read the signs !!!!! In the end its guesswork I grant you its informed guesswork but thats all it is The exit is going to happen nothing will stop that not you not your experts so stop putting arguements forward that you hope will derail the exit All your well informed intelligent well read arguements are just smoke and mirrors Just my opinion
Agreed shame the same amount of effort is,nt put into supporting THEIR county though.
But we are supporting our own count(r)y. You're the ones who've sold your people out to economic uncertainty and sold your country out to possible breakup and disunity. And all for a bunch of meaningless slogans. How's that putting any effort into supporting your own country. Sounds more like sedition, treachery and a good does of perfidy to me.
Just maybe we thought that the EU was a doomed institution up its own ass, unable to account for its income and expenditure and hell-bent on greater control. That really does not sound like sedition or treachery. Quite the opposite.
We could not reform it so decided it was time to leave it.
You might have thought lots of things, I don't know what you thought or really think now. All I do know is that you seen to be hell bent on creating as much disunity as possible between the UK and the EU and between the nations of the UK and the peoples legally living here in the UK (that's sedition). Many of you have said you know we'll be worse of but "don't give a shit" - acting to make your people and country worse of (that's treachery) and you've lied to your people (£350 million a day) to deceive them into believing what your trying to do is best for them (that's perfidy).
So yes, it really does sound like sedition, treachery and perfidy to me.
Erm, you're confusing me with someone else entirely.
I voted Brexit. I did not swallow all the propaganda.
As for creating disunity with people living in this country, why the fook would you ever assume that was my motive?
I have told you why I decided. Ascribe whatever ulterior motives you want. They don't exist.
Like I said, I don't know what you (2nd person singular) actually think or thought but you (2nd person plural) all seem to me to be acting in a way that is seditious, treacherous and perfidious. I can't ascribe any other motives to it because they simply don't add up in any logical, reasonable, sensible or meaningful way."I am a first person singular. On the other hand, I have no idea what you were voting for. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Fuel prices where already coming down as OPEC are reducing output But fuel goes up and down all yhe time Same as food prices up and down all the time All the experts in the world can predict and forecast cut the giblets ftom a chicken and read the signs !!!!! In the end its guesswork I grant you its informed guesswork but thats all it is The exit is going to happen nothing will stop that not you not your experts so stop putting arguements forward that you hope will derail the exit All your well informed intelligent well read arguements are just smoke and mirrors Just my opinion
Agreed shame the same amount of effort is,nt put into supporting THEIR county though.
But we are supporting our own count(r)y. You're the ones who've sold your people out to economic uncertainty and sold your country out to possible breakup and disunity. And all for a bunch of meaningless slogans. How's that putting any effort into supporting your own country. Sounds more like sedition, treachery and a good does of perfidy to me.
Just maybe we thought that the EU was a doomed institution up its own ass, unable to account for its income and expenditure and hell-bent on greater control. That really does not sound like sedition or treachery. Quite the opposite.
We could not reform it so decided it was time to leave it. " | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Fuel prices where already coming down as OPEC are reducing output But fuel goes up and down all yhe time Same as food prices up and down all the time All the experts in the world can predict and forecast cut the giblets ftom a chicken and read the signs !!!!! In the end its guesswork I grant you its informed guesswork but thats all it is The exit is going to happen nothing will stop that not you not your experts so stop putting arguements forward that you hope will derail the exit All your well informed intelligent well read arguements are just smoke and mirrors Just my opinion
Agreed shame the same amount of effort is,nt put into supporting THEIR county though.
But we are supporting our own count(r)y. You're the ones who've sold your people out to economic uncertainty and sold your country out to possible breakup and disunity. And all for a bunch of meaningless slogans. How's that putting any effort into supporting your own country. Sounds more like sedition, treachery and a good does of perfidy to me.
Just maybe we thought that the EU was a doomed institution up its own ass, unable to account for its income and expenditure and hell-bent on greater control. That really does not sound like sedition or treachery. Quite the opposite.
We could not reform it so decided it was time to leave it.
You might have thought lots of things, I don't know what you thought or really think now. All I do know is that you seen to be hell bent on creating as much disunity as possible between the UK and the EU and between the nations of the UK and the peoples legally living here in the UK (that's sedition). Many of you have said you know we'll be worse of but "don't give a shit" - acting to make your people and country worse of (that's treachery) and you've lied to your people (£350 million a day) to deceive them into believing what your trying to do is best for them (that's perfidy).
So yes, it really does sound like sedition, treachery and perfidy to me.
Erm, you're confusing me with someone else entirely.
I voted Brexit. I did not swallow all the propaganda.
As for creating disunity with people living in this country, why the fook would you ever assume that was my motive?
I have told you why I decided. Ascribe whatever ulterior motives you want. They don't exist.
Like I said, I don't know what you (2nd person singular) actually think or thought but you (2nd person plural) all seem to me to be acting in a way that is seditious, treacherous and perfidious. I can't ascribe any other motives to it because they simply don't add up in any logical, reasonable, sensible or meaningful way.
I am a first person singular.
On the other hand, I have no idea what you were voting for."neither does he. Or anyone who voted to remain | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I've seen some ridiculous numbers but £66bn in lost tax revenue is preposterous
London is the current capital of European banking and the sector contributes £30 billion a year to the Treasury. The UK will almost certainly lose its passporting rights and therefore the banking sector will gradually dissolve as foreign banks relocate to an EU country and U.K. domiciled banks close down their European trading floors.
Considering that just one sector that contributes £30 billion a year WILL (not could) be decimated by the loss of passporting rights (as a direct consequence of exiting the single market), it is not inconceivable that tax receipts of £60 billion or more could be lost across the whole of the UK.
It's not a certainty the UK will lose its financial passporting rights at all. That is a massive assumption and pure guesswork on your part. Was discussed in Parliament a few days ago and the government is very confident all current passporting rights will be maintained. London is not only the capital of European banking it is one of the global capitals of banking worldwide. Remainers need to realise there is a whole wide world out there beyond the borders of the EU.
Put it would definitely be a certainty we would keep them, and the £30 billions, if we weren't leaving the single market."But we are and the sooner the better. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Fuel prices where already coming down as OPEC are reducing output But fuel goes up and down all yhe time Same as food prices up and down all the time All the experts in the world can predict and forecast cut the giblets ftom a chicken and read the signs !!!!! In the end its guesswork I grant you its informed guesswork but thats all it is The exit is going to happen nothing will stop that not you not your experts so stop putting arguements forward that you hope will derail the exit All your well informed intelligent well read arguements are just smoke and mirrors Just my opinion
Agreed shame the same amount of effort is,nt put into supporting THEIR county though.
But we are supporting our own count(r)y. You're the ones who've sold your people out to economic uncertainty and sold your country out to possible breakup and disunity. And all for a bunch of meaningless slogans. How's that putting any effort into supporting your own country. Sounds more like sedition, treachery and a good does of perfidy to me.
Just maybe we thought that the EU was a doomed institution up its own ass, unable to account for its income and expenditure and hell-bent on greater control. That really does not sound like sedition or treachery. Quite the opposite.
We could not reform it so decided it was time to leave it.
You might have thought lots of things, I don't know what you thought or really think now. All I do know is that you seen to be hell bent on creating as much disunity as possible between the UK and the EU and between the nations of the UK and the peoples legally living here in the UK (that's sedition). Many of you have said you know we'll be worse of but "don't give a shit" - acting to make your people and country worse of (that's treachery) and you've lied to your people (£350 million a day) to deceive them into believing what your trying to do is best for them (that's perfidy).
So yes, it really does sound like sedition, treachery and perfidy to me.
Erm, you're confusing me with someone else entirely.
I voted Brexit. I did not swallow all the propaganda.
As for creating disunity with people living in this country, why the fook would you ever assume that was my motive?
I have told you why I decided. Ascribe whatever ulterior motives you want. They don't exist.
Like I said, I don't know what you (2nd person singular) actually think or thought but you (2nd person plural) all seem to me to be acting in a way that is seditious, treacherous and perfidious. I can't ascribe any other motives to it because they simply don't add up in any logical, reasonable, sensible or meaningful way.
I am a first person singular.
On the other hand, I have no idea what you were voting for."I was voting to keep my country united and prosperous within in the largest, most democratically organised, wealthiest and nearest trading community in the world. I was voting to keep jobs from foreign companies here in the UK, I was voting for British people of all skill levels and abilities to have the right to seek out their future and possibly fortunes, to study, live, work and retire any where in Europe, I wad voting to keep my countries say in what happens in Europe and will affect it, I was voting to keep a strong and united voice by the UK and Europe against the ever growing threat from both the East and the Middle East, I was voting for the good of my country, all the nations that make parts of it and all the peoples who live in it. I wasn't voting for a load of meaningless slogans and jingoistic flag waving. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Fuel prices where already coming down as OPEC are reducing output But fuel goes up and down all yhe time Same as food prices up and down all the time All the experts in the world can predict and forecast cut the giblets ftom a chicken and read the signs !!!!! In the end its guesswork I grant you its informed guesswork but thats all it is The exit is going to happen nothing will stop that not you not your experts so stop putting arguements forward that you hope will derail the exit All your well informed intelligent well read arguements are just smoke and mirrors Just my opinion
Agreed shame the same amount of effort is,nt put into supporting THEIR county though.
But we are supporting our own count(r)y. You're the ones who've sold your people out to economic uncertainty and sold your country out to possible breakup and disunity. And all for a bunch of meaningless slogans. How's that putting any effort into supporting your own country. Sounds more like sedition, treachery and a good does of perfidy to me.
Just maybe we thought that the EU was a doomed institution up its own ass, unable to account for its income and expenditure and hell-bent on greater control. That really does not sound like sedition or treachery. Quite the opposite.
We could not reform it so decided it was time to leave it.
You might have thought lots of things, I don't know what you thought or really think now. All I do know is that you seen to be hell bent on creating as much disunity as possible between the UK and the EU and between the nations of the UK and the peoples legally living here in the UK (that's sedition). Many of you have said you know we'll be worse of but "don't give a shit" - acting to make your people and country worse of (that's treachery) and you've lied to your people (£350 million a day) to deceive them into believing what your trying to do is best for them (that's perfidy).
So yes, it really does sound like sedition, treachery and perfidy to me.
Erm, you're confusing me with someone else entirely.
I voted Brexit. I did not swallow all the propaganda.
As for creating disunity with people living in this country, why the fook would you ever assume that was my motive?
I have told you why I decided. Ascribe whatever ulterior motives you want. They don't exist.
Like I said, I don't know what you (2nd person singular) actually think or thought but you (2nd person plural) all seem to me to be acting in a way that is seditious, treacherous and perfidious. I can't ascribe any other motives to it because they simply don't add up in any logical, reasonable, sensible or meaningful way.
I am a first person singular.
On the other hand, I have no idea what you were voting for.
I was voting to keep my country united and prosperous within in the largest, most democratically organised, wealthiest and nearest trading community in the world. I was voting to keep jobs from foreign companies here in the UK, I was voting for British people of all skill levels and abilities to have the right to seek out their future and possibly fortunes, to study, live, work and retire any where in Europe, I wad voting to keep my countries say in what happens in Europe and will affect it, I was voting to keep a strong and united voice by the UK and Europe against the ever growing threat from both the East and the Middle East, I was voting for the good of my country, all the nations that make parts of it and all the peoples who live in it. I wasn't voting for a load of meaningless slogans and jingoistic flag waving."Shame you did,nt win ah well never mind its another day tomorrow. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Fuel prices where already coming down as OPEC are reducing output But fuel goes up and down all yhe time Same as food prices up and down all the time All the experts in the world can predict and forecast cut the giblets ftom a chicken and read the signs !!!!! In the end its guesswork I grant you its informed guesswork but thats all it is The exit is going to happen nothing will stop that not you not your experts so stop putting arguements forward that you hope will derail the exit All your well informed intelligent well read arguements are just smoke and mirrors Just my opinion
Agreed shame the same amount of effort is,nt put into supporting THEIR county though.
But we are supporting our own count(r)y. You're the ones who've sold your people out to economic uncertainty and sold your country out to possible breakup and disunity. And all for a bunch of meaningless slogans. How's that putting any effort into supporting your own country. Sounds more like sedition, treachery and a good does of perfidy to me.
I'll tell you what real treachery is, it's wanting to hand over all our sovereignty to the EU on a plate, making EU law supreme over UK law and taking power away from our Parliament in Westminster and transferring it over to the Eurocrats in Brussels. Remainers like you would see our parliamentary democracy destroyed and our country swallowed up by a Federal United States of Europe. Some would call it treason, people like you are no better than Guy Fawkes. Maybe we should make an effigy of you and put it on a bonfire on November 5th instead of old Guy Fawkes.
The fact that we can legally leave the EU is proof that no sovereignty was ever permanently handed over to the EU and that Parliament, and parliament alone, remains sovereign in the UK as it has since 1688. The only real threat to Parliamentary sovereignty comes from where it has always come from, the executive(government).
As for your comments about burning effigies I'll just put that down to you now not just wanting a hard BREXIT but a "well 'ard BREXIT" to. I'm afraid idle threats of violence won't stop those of us who actually really do love our country and want what's best for it and all the people who live in it won't be put of by that.
I've faced far more scary things than you defending what I believe to be right, I'm not going to stop now."Where were the threats of violence towards you???? I made no threat of violence towards you what so ever, but far be it from Remainers to lie and make stuff up on the spot. If you think I made a threat of violence then feel free to report me to admin as I'm sure it's against forum rules. What I actually said was make an effigy of you and put that on a bonfire like old Guy Fawkes. There is a world of difference between putting a real person on a bonfire and a stuffed dummy of someone on a bonfire, if you can't tell the difference between the 2 then maybe you have the intelligence of a stuffed dummy and there really is no helping you. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Fuel prices where already coming down as OPEC are reducing output But fuel goes up and down all yhe time Same as food prices up and down all the time All the experts in the world can predict and forecast cut the giblets ftom a chicken and read the signs !!!!! In the end its guesswork I grant you its informed guesswork but thats all it is The exit is going to happen nothing will stop that not you not your experts so stop putting arguements forward that you hope will derail the exit All your well informed intelligent well read arguements are just smoke and mirrors Just my opinion
Agreed shame the same amount of effort is,nt put into supporting THEIR county though.
But we are supporting our own count(r)y. You're the ones who've sold your people out to economic uncertainty and sold your country out to possible breakup and disunity. And all for a bunch of meaningless slogans. How's that putting any effort into supporting your own country. Sounds more like sedition, treachery and a good does of perfidy to me.
Just maybe we thought that the EU was a doomed institution up its own ass, unable to account for its income and expenditure and hell-bent on greater control. That really does not sound like sedition or treachery. Quite the opposite.
We could not reform it so decided it was time to leave it.
You might have thought lots of things, I don't know what you thought or really think now. All I do know is that you seen to be hell bent on creating as much disunity as possible between the UK and the EU and between the nations of the UK and the peoples legally living here in the UK (that's sedition). Many of you have said you know we'll be worse of but "don't give a shit" - acting to make your people and country worse of (that's treachery) and you've lied to your people (£350 million a day) to deceive them into believing what your trying to do is best for them (that's perfidy).
So yes, it really does sound like sedition, treachery and perfidy to me.
Erm, you're confusing me with someone else entirely.
I voted Brexit. I did not swallow all the propaganda.
As for creating disunity with people living in this country, why the fook would you ever assume that was my motive?
I have told you why I decided. Ascribe whatever ulterior motives you want. They don't exist.
Like I said, I don't know what you (2nd person singular) actually think or thought but you (2nd person plural) all seem to me to be acting in a way that is seditious, treacherous and perfidious. I can't ascribe any other motives to it because they simply don't add up in any logical, reasonable, sensible or meaningful way.
I am a first person singular.
On the other hand, I have no idea what you were voting for.
I was voting to keep my country united and prosperous within in the largest, most democratically organised, wealthiest and nearest trading community in the world. I was voting to keep jobs from foreign companies here in the UK, I was voting for British people of all skill levels and abilities to have the right to seek out their future and possibly fortunes, to study, live, work and retire any where in Europe, I wad voting to keep my countries say in what happens in Europe and will affect it, I was voting to keep a strong and united voice by the UK and Europe against the ever growing threat from both the East and the Middle East, I was voting for the good of my country, all the nations that make parts of it and all the peoples who live in it. I wasn't voting for a load of meaningless slogans and jingoistic flag waving.
Shame you did,nt win ah well never mind its another day tomorrow. " | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Fuel prices where already coming down as OPEC are reducing output But fuel goes up and down all yhe time Same as food prices up and down all the time All the experts in the world can predict and forecast cut the giblets ftom a chicken and read the signs !!!!! In the end its guesswork I grant you its informed guesswork but thats all it is The exit is going to happen nothing will stop that not you not your experts so stop putting arguements forward that you hope will derail the exit All your well informed intelligent well read arguements are just smoke and mirrors Just my opinion
Agreed shame the same amount of effort is,nt put into supporting THEIR county though.
But we are supporting our own count(r)y. You're the ones who've sold your people out to economic uncertainty and sold your country out to possible breakup and disunity. And all for a bunch of meaningless slogans. How's that putting any effort into supporting your own country. Sounds more like sedition, treachery and a good does of perfidy to me.
Just maybe we thought that the EU was a doomed institution up its own ass, unable to account for its income and expenditure and hell-bent on greater control. That really does not sound like sedition or treachery. Quite the opposite.
We could not reform it so decided it was time to leave it.
You might have thought lots of things, I don't know what you thought or really think now. All I do know is that you seen to be hell bent on creating as much disunity as possible between the UK and the EU and between the nations of the UK and the peoples legally living here in the UK (that's sedition). Many of you have said you know we'll be worse of but "don't give a shit" - acting to make your people and country worse of (that's treachery) and you've lied to your people (£350 million a day) to deceive them into believing what your trying to do is best for them (that's perfidy).
So yes, it really does sound like sedition, treachery and perfidy to me.
Erm, you're confusing me with someone else entirely.
I voted Brexit. I did not swallow all the propaganda.
As for creating disunity with people living in this country, why the fook would you ever assume that was my motive?
I have told you why I decided. Ascribe whatever ulterior motives you want. They don't exist.
Like I said, I don't know what you (2nd person singular) actually think or thought but you (2nd person plural) all seem to me to be acting in a way that is seditious, treacherous and perfidious. I can't ascribe any other motives to it because they simply don't add up in any logical, reasonable, sensible or meaningful way.
I am a first person singular.
On the other hand, I have no idea what you were voting for.
I was voting to keep my country united and prosperous within in the largest, most democratically organised, wealthiest and nearest trading community in the world. I was voting to keep jobs from foreign companies here in the UK, I was voting for British people of all skill levels and abilities to have the right to seek out their future and possibly fortunes, to study, live, work and retire any where in Europe, I wad voting to keep my countries say in what happens in Europe and will affect it, I was voting to keep a strong and united voice by the UK and Europe against the ever growing threat from both the East and the Middle East, I was voting for the good of my country, all the nations that make parts of it and all the peoples who live in it. I wasn't voting for a load of meaningless slogans and jingoistic flag waving."It sounds very much as if you were voting for jongoistic flag-waving crap. I voted for economic sense. There is no way that the silly philosophy behind the EU can survive. I decided to get out of it before it collapsed. As opposed to continuing to wave some stupid European unity flag. I wish to trade with Europe. I don't want to trade only with Europe or be a spoke in their wheel. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Fuel prices where already coming down as OPEC are reducing output But fuel goes up and down all yhe time Same as food prices up and down all the time All the experts in the world can predict and forecast cut the giblets ftom a chicken and read the signs !!!!! In the end its guesswork I grant you its informed guesswork but thats all it is The exit is going to happen nothing will stop that not you not your experts so stop putting arguements forward that you hope will derail the exit All your well informed intelligent well read arguements are just smoke and mirrors Just my opinion
Agreed shame the same amount of effort is,nt put into supporting THEIR county though.
But we are supporting our own count(r)y. You're the ones who've sold your people out to economic uncertainty and sold your country out to possible breakup and disunity. And all for a bunch of meaningless slogans. How's that putting any effort into supporting your own country. Sounds more like sedition, treachery and a good does of perfidy to me.
Just maybe we thought that the EU was a doomed institution up its own ass, unable to account for its income and expenditure and hell-bent on greater control. That really does not sound like sedition or treachery. Quite the opposite.
We could not reform it so decided it was time to leave it.
You might have thought lots of things, I don't know what you thought or really think now. All I do know is that you seen to be hell bent on creating as much disunity as possible between the UK and the EU and between the nations of the UK and the peoples legally living here in the UK (that's sedition). Many of you have said you know we'll be worse of but "don't give a shit" - acting to make your people and country worse of (that's treachery) and you've lied to your people (£350 million a day) to deceive them into believing what your trying to do is best for them (that's perfidy).
So yes, it really does sound like sedition, treachery and perfidy to me.
Erm, you're confusing me with someone else entirely.
I voted Brexit. I did not swallow all the propaganda.
As for creating disunity with people living in this country, why the fook would you ever assume that was my motive?
I have told you why I decided. Ascribe whatever ulterior motives you want. They don't exist.
Like I said, I don't know what you (2nd person singular) actually think or thought but you (2nd person plural) all seem to me to be acting in a way that is seditious, treacherous and perfidious. I can't ascribe any other motives to it because they simply don't add up in any logical, reasonable, sensible or meaningful way.
I am a first person singular.
On the other hand, I have no idea what you were voting for.
I was voting to keep my country united and prosperous within in the largest, most democratically organised, wealthiest and nearest trading community in the world. I was voting to keep jobs from foreign companies here in the UK, I was voting for British people of all skill levels and abilities to have the right to seek out their future and possibly fortunes, to study, live, work and retire any where in Europe, I wad voting to keep my countries say in what happens in Europe and will affect it, I was voting to keep a strong and united voice by the UK and Europe against the ever growing threat from both the East and the Middle East, I was voting for the good of my country, all the nations that make parts of it and all the peoples who live in it. I wasn't voting for a load of meaningless slogans and jingoistic flag waving.
It sounds very much as if you were voting for jongoistic flag-waving crap. I voted for economic sense. There is no way that the silly philosophy behind the EU can survive.
I decided to get out of it before it collapsed. As opposed to continuing to wave some stupid European unity flag.
I wish to trade with Europe. I don't want to trade only with Europe or be a spoke in their wheel."You voted because of Economics? Yet you voted against 90% of UK economists, against HM Treasury, against Nobel Prize winning economists, against the World Bank, against the IFS, against the IMF, etc. etc. etc. That makes no sense at all. Which country does the UK currently NOT trade with, that you are looking forward to trading with in the future? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Fuel prices where already coming down as OPEC are reducing output But fuel goes up and down all yhe time Same as food prices up and down all the time All the experts in the world can predict and forecast cut the giblets ftom a chicken and read the signs !!!!! In the end its guesswork I grant you its informed guesswork but thats all it is The exit is going to happen nothing will stop that not you not your experts so stop putting arguements forward that you hope will derail the exit All your well informed intelligent well read arguements are just smoke and mirrors Just my opinion
Agreed shame the same amount of effort is,nt put into supporting THEIR county though.
But we are supporting our own count(r)y. You're the ones who've sold your people out to economic uncertainty and sold your country out to possible breakup and disunity. And all for a bunch of meaningless slogans. How's that putting any effort into supporting your own country. Sounds more like sedition, treachery and a good does of perfidy to me.
Just maybe we thought that the EU was a doomed institution up its own ass, unable to account for its income and expenditure and hell-bent on greater control. That really does not sound like sedition or treachery. Quite the opposite.
We could not reform it so decided it was time to leave it.
You might have thought lots of things, I don't know what you thought or really think now. All I do know is that you seen to be hell bent on creating as much disunity as possible between the UK and the EU and between the nations of the UK and the peoples legally living here in the UK (that's sedition). Many of you have said you know we'll be worse of but "don't give a shit" - acting to make your people and country worse of (that's treachery) and you've lied to your people (£350 million a day) to deceive them into believing what your trying to do is best for them (that's perfidy).
So yes, it really does sound like sedition, treachery and perfidy to me.
Erm, you're confusing me with someone else entirely.
I voted Brexit. I did not swallow all the propaganda.
As for creating disunity with people living in this country, why the fook would you ever assume that was my motive?
I have told you why I decided. Ascribe whatever ulterior motives you want. They don't exist.
Like I said, I don't know what you (2nd person singular) actually think or thought but you (2nd person plural) all seem to me to be acting in a way that is seditious, treacherous and perfidious. I can't ascribe any other motives to it because they simply don't add up in any logical, reasonable, sensible or meaningful way.
I am a first person singular.
On the other hand, I have no idea what you were voting for.
I was voting to keep my country united and prosperous within in the largest, most democratically organised, wealthiest and nearest trading community in the world. I was voting to keep jobs from foreign companies here in the UK, I was voting for British people of all skill levels and abilities to have the right to seek out their future and possibly fortunes, to study, live, work and retire any where in Europe, I wad voting to keep my countries say in what happens in Europe and will affect it, I was voting to keep a strong and united voice by the UK and Europe against the ever growing threat from both the East and the Middle East, I was voting for the good of my country, all the nations that make parts of it and all the peoples who live in it. I wasn't voting for a load of meaningless slogans and jingoistic flag waving.
It sounds very much as if you were voting for jongoistic flag-waving crap. I voted for economic sense. There is no way that the silly philosophy behind the EU can survive.
I decided to get out of it before it collapsed. As opposed to continuing to wave some stupid European unity flag.
I wish to trade with Europe. I don't want to trade only with Europe or be a spoke in their wheel.
You voted because of Economics? Yet you voted against 90% of UK economists, against HM Treasury, against Nobel Prize winning economists, against the World Bank, against the IFS, against the IMF, etc. etc. etc. That makes no sense at all.
Which country does the UK currently NOT trade with, that you are looking forward to trading with in the future? "No, I voted against a corrupt and overruling organisation that took our money, decided how we should spend it and dictated our laws and with whom we could trade. And I am very tired of appeals to those economic organisations that you perceive to be experts. I chose personal responsibility. You choose "experts." I have expressed where economic experts have gone rather wrong in the past but received no feedback. I have known a very bright economist who was employed by the Chancellor to provide advice. You know, it did not matter who the Chancellor was, she was asked to give advice supporting the latest political thrust. Paymasters, eh? Your appeals to "recognised" bodies is a bit like saying, "I can't be arsed to work it out myself." | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Fuel prices where already coming down as OPEC are reducing output But fuel goes up and down all yhe time Same as food prices up and down all the time All the experts in the world can predict and forecast cut the giblets ftom a chicken and read the signs !!!!! In the end its guesswork I grant you its informed guesswork but thats all it is The exit is going to happen nothing will stop that not you not your experts so stop putting arguements forward that you hope will derail the exit All your well informed intelligent well read arguements are just smoke and mirrors Just my opinion
Agreed shame the same amount of effort is,nt put into supporting THEIR county though.
But we are supporting our own count(r)y. You're the ones who've sold your people out to economic uncertainty and sold your country out to possible breakup and disunity. And all for a bunch of meaningless slogans. How's that putting any effort into supporting your own country. Sounds more like sedition, treachery and a good does of perfidy to me.
Just maybe we thought that the EU was a doomed institution up its own ass, unable to account for its income and expenditure and hell-bent on greater control. That really does not sound like sedition or treachery. Quite the opposite.
We could not reform it so decided it was time to leave it.
You might have thought lots of things, I don't know what you thought or really think now. All I do know is that you seen to be hell bent on creating as much disunity as possible between the UK and the EU and between the nations of the UK and the peoples legally living here in the UK (that's sedition). Many of you have said you know we'll be worse of but "don't give a shit" - acting to make your people and country worse of (that's treachery) and you've lied to your people (£350 million a day) to deceive them into believing what your trying to do is best for them (that's perfidy).
So yes, it really does sound like sedition, treachery and perfidy to me.
Erm, you're confusing me with someone else entirely.
I voted Brexit. I did not swallow all the propaganda.
As for creating disunity with people living in this country, why the fook would you ever assume that was my motive?
I have told you why I decided. Ascribe whatever ulterior motives you want. They don't exist.
Like I said, I don't know what you (2nd person singular) actually think or thought but you (2nd person plural) all seem to me to be acting in a way that is seditious, treacherous and perfidious. I can't ascribe any other motives to it because they simply don't add up in any logical, reasonable, sensible or meaningful way.
I am a first person singular.
On the other hand, I have no idea what you were voting for.
I was voting to keep my country united and prosperous within in the largest, most democratically organised, wealthiest and nearest trading community in the world. I was voting to keep jobs from foreign companies here in the UK, I was voting for British people of all skill levels and abilities to have the right to seek out their future and possibly fortunes, to study, live, work and retire any where in Europe, I wad voting to keep my countries say in what happens in Europe and will affect it, I was voting to keep a strong and united voice by the UK and Europe against the ever growing threat from both the East and the Middle East, I was voting for the good of my country, all the nations that make parts of it and all the peoples who live in it. I wasn't voting for a load of meaningless slogans and jingoistic flag waving.
It sounds very much as if you were voting for jongoistic flag-waving crap. I voted for economic sense. There is no way that the silly philosophy behind the EU can survive.
I decided to get out of it before it collapsed. As opposed to continuing to wave some stupid European unity flag.
I wish to trade with Europe. I don't want to trade only with Europe or be a spoke in their wheel."I'm sorry, when did we ever only trade with Europe? We've been trading successfully in both Europe and the rest of the world for the last 40 years, from within the EU. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Fuel prices where already coming down as OPEC are reducing output But fuel goes up and down all yhe time Same as food prices up and down all the time All the experts in the world can predict and forecast cut the giblets ftom a chicken and read the signs !!!!! In the end its guesswork I grant you its informed guesswork but thats all it is The exit is going to happen nothing will stop that not you not your experts so stop putting arguements forward that you hope will derail the exit All your well informed intelligent well read arguements are just smoke and mirrors Just my opinion
Agreed shame the same amount of effort is,nt put into supporting THEIR county though.
But we are supporting our own count(r)y. You're the ones who've sold your people out to economic uncertainty and sold your country out to possible breakup and disunity. And all for a bunch of meaningless slogans. How's that putting any effort into supporting your own country. Sounds more like sedition, treachery and a good does of perfidy to me.
Just maybe we thought that the EU was a doomed institution up its own ass, unable to account for its income and expenditure and hell-bent on greater control. That really does not sound like sedition or treachery. Quite the opposite.
We could not reform it so decided it was time to leave it.
You might have thought lots of things, I don't know what you thought or really think now. All I do know is that you seen to be hell bent on creating as much disunity as possible between the UK and the EU and between the nations of the UK and the peoples legally living here in the UK (that's sedition). Many of you have said you know we'll be worse of but "don't give a shit" - acting to make your people and country worse of (that's treachery) and you've lied to your people (£350 million a day) to deceive them into believing what your trying to do is best for them (that's perfidy).
So yes, it really does sound like sedition, treachery and perfidy to me.
Erm, you're confusing me with someone else entirely.
I voted Brexit. I did not swallow all the propaganda.
As for creating disunity with people living in this country, why the fook would you ever assume that was my motive?
I have told you why I decided. Ascribe whatever ulterior motives you want. They don't exist.
Like I said, I don't know what you (2nd person singular) actually think or thought but you (2nd person plural) all seem to me to be acting in a way that is seditious, treacherous and perfidious. I can't ascribe any other motives to it because they simply don't add up in any logical, reasonable, sensible or meaningful way.
I am a first person singular.
On the other hand, I have no idea what you were voting for.
I was voting to keep my country united and prosperous within in the largest, most democratically organised, wealthiest and nearest trading community in the world. I was voting to keep jobs from foreign companies here in the UK, I was voting for British people of all skill levels and abilities to have the right to seek out their future and possibly fortunes, to study, live, work and retire any where in Europe, I wad voting to keep my countries say in what happens in Europe and will affect it, I was voting to keep a strong and united voice by the UK and Europe against the ever growing threat from both the East and the Middle East, I was voting for the good of my country, all the nations that make parts of it and all the peoples who live in it. I wasn't voting for a load of meaningless slogans and jingoistic flag waving.
It sounds very much as if you were voting for jongoistic flag-waving crap. I voted for economic sense. There is no way that the silly philosophy behind the EU can survive.
I decided to get out of it before it collapsed. As opposed to continuing to wave some stupid European unity flag.
I wish to trade with Europe. I don't want to trade only with Europe or be a spoke in their wheel.
You voted because of Economics? Yet you voted against 90% of UK economists, against HM Treasury, against Nobel Prize winning economists, against the World Bank, against the IFS, against the IMF, etc. etc. etc. That makes no sense at all.
Which country does the UK currently NOT trade with, that you are looking forward to trading with in the future?
No, I voted against a corrupt and overruling organisation that took our money, decided how we should spend it and dictated our laws and with whom we could trade.
And I am very tired of appeals to those economic organisations that you perceive to be experts. I chose personal responsibility. You choose "experts." I have expressed where economic experts have gone rather wrong in the past but received no feedback.
I have known a very bright economist who was employed by the Chancellor to provide advice. You know, it did not matter who the Chancellor was, she was asked to give advice supporting the latest political thrust. Paymasters, eh? Your appeals to "recognised" bodies is a bit like saying, "I can't be arsed to work it out myself.""Sorry my mistake, I thought that you voted based on the economic arguements because you said "I voted for economic sense" but what you actually meant when you said "I voted for economic sense" is "I voted against a corrupt and overruling organisation that took our money, decided how we should spend it and dictated our laws and with whom we could trade." I asked before and you couldn't answer me, maybe I'll try again. Which country is the UK currently NOT trading with that you want to trade with once we leave the EU? Also which EU law are you most looking forward to no longer having to obey? These are the points that you voted on, so they should be easy enough for you to answer. Regarding the experts, it's blindingly obvious, to me at least, that leaving the EU is bad for the economy, they are our largest and nearest trading partner, the experts just happen to agree with me, so I'm not ducking any personal responsibility at all. I will say though that they know more about the economy than I do. It would take a very arrogant person to say that people and organisations with a lot more training, experience and qualifications than me, know less about a subject than I do. Dont you think? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Fuel prices where already coming down as OPEC are reducing output But fuel goes up and down all yhe time Same as food prices up and down all the time All the experts in the world can predict and forecast cut the giblets ftom a chicken and read the signs !!!!! In the end its guesswork I grant you its informed guesswork but thats all it is The exit is going to happen nothing will stop that not you not your experts so stop putting arguements forward that you hope will derail the exit All your well informed intelligent well read arguements are just smoke and mirrors Just my opinion
Agreed shame the same amount of effort is,nt put into supporting THEIR county though.
But we are supporting our own count(r)y. You're the ones who've sold your people out to economic uncertainty and sold your country out to possible breakup and disunity. And all for a bunch of meaningless slogans. How's that putting any effort into supporting your own country. Sounds more like sedition, treachery and a good does of perfidy to me.
Just maybe we thought that the EU was a doomed institution up its own ass, unable to account for its income and expenditure and hell-bent on greater control. That really does not sound like sedition or treachery. Quite the opposite.
We could not reform it so decided it was time to leave it.
You might have thought lots of things, I don't know what you thought or really think now. All I do know is that you seen to be hell bent on creating as much disunity as possible between the UK and the EU and between the nations of the UK and the peoples legally living here in the UK (that's sedition). Many of you have said you know we'll be worse of but "don't give a shit" - acting to make your people and country worse of (that's treachery) and you've lied to your people (£350 million a day) to deceive them into believing what your trying to do is best for them (that's perfidy).
So yes, it really does sound like sedition, treachery and perfidy to me.
Erm, you're confusing me with someone else entirely.
I voted Brexit. I did not swallow all the propaganda.
As for creating disunity with people living in this country, why the fook would you ever assume that was my motive?
I have told you why I decided. Ascribe whatever ulterior motives you want. They don't exist.
Like I said, I don't know what you (2nd person singular) actually think or thought but you (2nd person plural) all seem to me to be acting in a way that is seditious, treacherous and perfidious. I can't ascribe any other motives to it because they simply don't add up in any logical, reasonable, sensible or meaningful way.
I am a first person singular.
On the other hand, I have no idea what you were voting for.
I was voting to keep my country united and prosperous within in the largest, most democratically organised, wealthiest and nearest trading community in the world. I was voting to keep jobs from foreign companies here in the UK, I was voting for British people of all skill levels and abilities to have the right to seek out their future and possibly fortunes, to study, live, work and retire any where in Europe, I wad voting to keep my countries say in what happens in Europe and will affect it, I was voting to keep a strong and united voice by the UK and Europe against the ever growing threat from both the East and the Middle East, I was voting for the good of my country, all the nations that make parts of it and all the peoples who live in it. I wasn't voting for a load of meaningless slogans and jingoistic flag waving.
It sounds very much as if you were voting for jongoistic flag-waving crap. I voted for economic sense. There is no way that the silly philosophy behind the EU can survive.
I decided to get out of it before it collapsed. As opposed to continuing to wave some stupid European unity flag.
I wish to trade with Europe. I don't want to trade only with Europe or be a spoke in their wheel.
You voted because of Economics? Yet you voted against 90% of UK economists, against HM Treasury, against Nobel Prize winning economists, against the World Bank, against the IFS, against the IMF, etc. etc. etc. That makes no sense at all.
Which country does the UK currently NOT trade with, that you are looking forward to trading with in the future?
No, I voted against a corrupt and overruling organisation that took our money, decided how we should spend it and dictated our laws and with whom we could trade.
And I am very tired of appeals to those economic organisations that you perceive to be experts. I chose personal responsibility. You choose "experts." I have expressed where economic experts have gone rather wrong in the past but received no feedback.
I have known a very bright economist who was employed by the Chancellor to provide advice. You know, it did not matter who the Chancellor was, she was asked to give advice supporting the latest political thrust. Paymasters, eh? Your appeals to "recognised" bodies is a bit like saying, "I can't be arsed to work it out myself.""I'm no economic expert but how does voting to make trade harder with our biggest, wealthiest and closets customers in the unsure hope that we might increase our trade with other mostly smaller, poorer and further away customers equate show any level of responsibility, personal or otherwise. You don't have to an economic expert to know that that clearly is more likely to lead to less trade, not more. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Fuel prices where already coming down as OPEC are reducing output But fuel goes up and down all yhe time Same as food prices up and down all the time All the experts in the world can predict and forecast cut the giblets ftom a chicken and read the signs !!!!! In the end its guesswork I grant you its informed guesswork but thats all it is The exit is going to happen nothing will stop that not you not your experts so stop putting arguements forward that you hope will derail the exit All your well informed intelligent well read arguements are just smoke and mirrors Just my opinion
Agreed shame the same amount of effort is,nt put into supporting THEIR county though.
But we are supporting our own count(r)y. You're the ones who've sold your people out to economic uncertainty and sold your country out to possible breakup and disunity. And all for a bunch of meaningless slogans. How's that putting any effort into supporting your own country. Sounds more like sedition, treachery and a good does of perfidy to me.
Just maybe we thought that the EU was a doomed institution up its own ass, unable to account for its income and expenditure and hell-bent on greater control. That really does not sound like sedition or treachery. Quite the opposite.
We could not reform it so decided it was time to leave it.
You might have thought lots of things, I don't know what you thought or really think now. All I do know is that you seen to be hell bent on creating as much disunity as possible between the UK and the EU and between the nations of the UK and the peoples legally living here in the UK (that's sedition). Many of you have said you know we'll be worse of but "don't give a shit" - acting to make your people and country worse of (that's treachery) and you've lied to your people (£350 million a day) to deceive them into believing what your trying to do is best for them (that's perfidy).
So yes, it really does sound like sedition, treachery and perfidy to me.
Erm, you're confusing me with someone else entirely.
I voted Brexit. I did not swallow all the propaganda.
As for creating disunity with people living in this country, why the fook would you ever assume that was my motive?
I have told you why I decided. Ascribe whatever ulterior motives you want. They don't exist.
Like I said, I don't know what you (2nd person singular) actually think or thought but you (2nd person plural) all seem to me to be acting in a way that is seditious, treacherous and perfidious. I can't ascribe any other motives to it because they simply don't add up in any logical, reasonable, sensible or meaningful way.
I am a first person singular.
On the other hand, I have no idea what you were voting for.
I was voting to keep my country united and prosperous within in the largest, most democratically organised, wealthiest and nearest trading community in the world. I was voting to keep jobs from foreign companies here in the UK, I was voting for British people of all skill levels and abilities to have the right to seek out their future and possibly fortunes, to study, live, work and retire any where in Europe, I wad voting to keep my countries say in what happens in Europe and will affect it, I was voting to keep a strong and united voice by the UK and Europe against the ever growing threat from both the East and the Middle East, I was voting for the good of my country, all the nations that make parts of it and all the peoples who live in it. I wasn't voting for a load of meaningless slogans and jingoistic flag waving.
It sounds very much as if you were voting for jongoistic flag-waving crap. I voted for economic sense. There is no way that the silly philosophy behind the EU can survive.
I decided to get out of it before it collapsed. As opposed to continuing to wave some stupid European unity flag.
I wish to trade with Europe. I don't want to trade only with Europe or be a spoke in their wheel.
I'm sorry, when did we ever only trade with Europe? We've been trading successfully in both Europe and the rest of the world for the last 40 years, from within the EU. "No we haven't. Firstly the EU has not been in existence for 40 years, the "EU" started in 1993. We have a massive trade deficit with the EU so how can you call that a success??? In comparison we have a trade surplus trading with the rest of the world outside of the EU, the Conservative MP Bill Cash highlighted this in the House of Commons in Parliament during the referendum debate. Switzerland (a country outside of the EU) has more trade deals than the EU. To this day the EU still does not have any kind of trade deal with one of the largest economies in the world, namely the USA. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Fuel prices where already coming down as OPEC are reducing output But fuel goes up and down all yhe time Same as food prices up and down all the time All the experts in the world can predict and forecast cut the giblets ftom a chicken and read the signs !!!!! In the end its guesswork I grant you its informed guesswork but thats all it is The exit is going to happen nothing will stop that not you not your experts so stop putting arguements forward that you hope will derail the exit All your well informed intelligent well read arguements are just smoke and mirrors Just my opinion
Agreed shame the same amount of effort is,nt put into supporting THEIR county though.
But we are supporting our own count(r)y. You're the ones who've sold your people out to economic uncertainty and sold your country out to possible breakup and disunity. And all for a bunch of meaningless slogans. How's that putting any effort into supporting your own country. Sounds more like sedition, treachery and a good does of perfidy to me.
Just maybe we thought that the EU was a doomed institution up its own ass, unable to account for its income and expenditure and hell-bent on greater control. That really does not sound like sedition or treachery. Quite the opposite.
We could not reform it so decided it was time to leave it.
You might have thought lots of things, I don't know what you thought or really think now. All I do know is that you seen to be hell bent on creating as much disunity as possible between the UK and the EU and between the nations of the UK and the peoples legally living here in the UK (that's sedition). Many of you have said you know we'll be worse of but "don't give a shit" - acting to make your people and country worse of (that's treachery) and you've lied to your people (£350 million a day) to deceive them into believing what your trying to do is best for them (that's perfidy).
So yes, it really does sound like sedition, treachery and perfidy to me.
Erm, you're confusing me with someone else entirely.
I voted Brexit. I did not swallow all the propaganda.
As for creating disunity with people living in this country, why the fook would you ever assume that was my motive?
I have told you why I decided. Ascribe whatever ulterior motives you want. They don't exist.
Like I said, I don't know what you (2nd person singular) actually think or thought but you (2nd person plural) all seem to me to be acting in a way that is seditious, treacherous and perfidious. I can't ascribe any other motives to it because they simply don't add up in any logical, reasonable, sensible or meaningful way.
I am a first person singular.
On the other hand, I have no idea what you were voting for.
I was voting to keep my country united and prosperous within in the largest, most democratically organised, wealthiest and nearest trading community in the world. I was voting to keep jobs from foreign companies here in the UK, I was voting for British people of all skill levels and abilities to have the right to seek out their future and possibly fortunes, to study, live, work and retire any where in Europe, I wad voting to keep my countries say in what happens in Europe and will affect it, I was voting to keep a strong and united voice by the UK and Europe against the ever growing threat from both the East and the Middle East, I was voting for the good of my country, all the nations that make parts of it and all the peoples who live in it. I wasn't voting for a load of meaningless slogans and jingoistic flag waving.
It sounds very much as if you were voting for jongoistic flag-waving crap. I voted for economic sense. There is no way that the silly philosophy behind the EU can survive.
I decided to get out of it before it collapsed. As opposed to continuing to wave some stupid European unity flag.
I wish to trade with Europe. I don't want to trade only with Europe or be a spoke in their wheel.
You voted because of Economics? Yet you voted against 90% of UK economists, against HM Treasury, against Nobel Prize winning economists, against the World Bank, against the IFS, against the IMF, etc. etc. etc. That makes no sense at all.
Which country does the UK currently NOT trade with, that you are looking forward to trading with in the future?
No, I voted against a corrupt and overruling organisation that took our money, decided how we should spend it and dictated our laws and with whom we could trade.
And I am very tired of appeals to those economic organisations that you perceive to be experts. I chose personal responsibility. You choose "experts." I have expressed where economic experts have gone rather wrong in the past but received no feedback.
I have known a very bright economist who was employed by the Chancellor to provide advice. You know, it did not matter who the Chancellor was, she was asked to give advice supporting the latest political thrust. Paymasters, eh? Your appeals to "recognised" bodies is a bit like saying, "I can't be arsed to work it out myself."
Sorry my mistake, I thought that you voted based on the economic arguements because you said "I voted for economic sense" but what you actually meant when you said "I voted for economic sense" is "I voted against a corrupt and overruling organisation that took our money, decided how we should spend it and dictated our laws and with whom we could trade."
I asked before and you couldn't answer me, maybe I'll try again. Which country is the UK currently NOT trading with that you want to trade with once we leave the EU?
Also which EU law are you most looking forward to no longer having to obey?
These are the points that you voted on, so they should be easy enough for you to answer.
Regarding the experts, it's blindingly obvious, to me at least, that leaving the EU is bad for the economy, they are our largest and nearest trading partner, the experts just happen to agree with me, so I'm not ducking any personal responsibility at all. I will say though that they know more about the economy than I do. It would take a very arrogant person to say that people and organisations with a lot more training, experience and qualifications than me, know less about a subject than I do. Dont you think? "You put your faith in economic "experts" paid to put an opinion. I put my faith in my knowledge of the world and my perception of this European Union. You believe in other people's opinion. I believe in mine. I was asked to vote and I did so. The difference between you and I is that I did so based upon my opinion and not of that espoused by an "expert." | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Fuel prices where already coming down as OPEC are reducing output But fuel goes up and down all yhe time Same as food prices up and down all the time All the experts in the world can predict and forecast cut the giblets ftom a chicken and read the signs !!!!! In the end its guesswork I grant you its informed guesswork but thats all it is The exit is going to happen nothing will stop that not you not your experts so stop putting arguements forward that you hope will derail the exit All your well informed intelligent well read arguements are just smoke and mirrors Just my opinion
Agreed shame the same amount of effort is,nt put into supporting THEIR county though.
But we are supporting our own count(r)y. You're the ones who've sold your people out to economic uncertainty and sold your country out to possible breakup and disunity. And all for a bunch of meaningless slogans. How's that putting any effort into supporting your own country. Sounds more like sedition, treachery and a good does of perfidy to me.
Just maybe we thought that the EU was a doomed institution up its own ass, unable to account for its income and expenditure and hell-bent on greater control. That really does not sound like sedition or treachery. Quite the opposite.
We could not reform it so decided it was time to leave it.
You might have thought lots of things, I don't know what you thought or really think now. All I do know is that you seen to be hell bent on creating as much disunity as possible between the UK and the EU and between the nations of the UK and the peoples legally living here in the UK (that's sedition). Many of you have said you know we'll be worse of but "don't give a shit" - acting to make your people and country worse of (that's treachery) and you've lied to your people (£350 million a day) to deceive them into believing what your trying to do is best for them (that's perfidy).
So yes, it really does sound like sedition, treachery and perfidy to me.
Erm, you're confusing me with someone else entirely.
I voted Brexit. I did not swallow all the propaganda.
As for creating disunity with people living in this country, why the fook would you ever assume that was my motive?
I have told you why I decided. Ascribe whatever ulterior motives you want. They don't exist.
Like I said, I don't know what you (2nd person singular) actually think or thought but you (2nd person plural) all seem to me to be acting in a way that is seditious, treacherous and perfidious. I can't ascribe any other motives to it because they simply don't add up in any logical, reasonable, sensible or meaningful way.
I am a first person singular.
On the other hand, I have no idea what you were voting for.
I was voting to keep my country united and prosperous within in the largest, most democratically organised, wealthiest and nearest trading community in the world. I was voting to keep jobs from foreign companies here in the UK, I was voting for British people of all skill levels and abilities to have the right to seek out their future and possibly fortunes, to study, live, work and retire any where in Europe, I wad voting to keep my countries say in what happens in Europe and will affect it, I was voting to keep a strong and united voice by the UK and Europe against the ever growing threat from both the East and the Middle East, I was voting for the good of my country, all the nations that make parts of it and all the peoples who live in it. I wasn't voting for a load of meaningless slogans and jingoistic flag waving.
It sounds very much as if you were voting for jongoistic flag-waving crap. I voted for economic sense. There is no way that the silly philosophy behind the EU can survive.
I decided to get out of it before it collapsed. As opposed to continuing to wave some stupid European unity flag.
I wish to trade with Europe. I don't want to trade only with Europe or be a spoke in their wheel.
You voted because of Economics? Yet you voted against 90% of UK economists, against HM Treasury, against Nobel Prize winning economists, against the World Bank, against the IFS, against the IMF, etc. etc. etc. That makes no sense at all.
Which country does the UK currently NOT trade with, that you are looking forward to trading with in the future?
No, I voted against a corrupt and overruling organisation that took our money, decided how we should spend it and dictated our laws and with whom we could trade.
And I am very tired of appeals to those economic organisations that you perceive to be experts. I chose personal responsibility. You choose "experts." I have expressed where economic experts have gone rather wrong in the past but received no feedback.
I have known a very bright economist who was employed by the Chancellor to provide advice. You know, it did not matter who the Chancellor was, she was asked to give advice supporting the latest political thrust. Paymasters, eh? Your appeals to "recognised" bodies is a bit like saying, "I can't be arsed to work it out myself."
I'm no economic expert but how does voting to make trade harder with our biggest, wealthiest and closets customers in the unsure hope that we might increase our trade with other mostly smaller, poorer and further away customers equate show any level of responsibility, personal or otherwise. You don't have to an economic expert to know that that clearly is more likely to lead to less trade, not more."Well, with just a little bit of skill, we will still be able to trade with the EU ... and any other country who wants to trade with us. I certainly do not want the EU to dictate who we can and can't reach a deal with, as is currently the case. Madness. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Fuel prices where already coming down as OPEC are reducing output But fuel goes up and down all yhe time Same as food prices up and down all the time All the experts in the world can predict and forecast cut the giblets ftom a chicken and read the signs !!!!! In the end its guesswork I grant you its informed guesswork but thats all it is The exit is going to happen nothing will stop that not you not your experts so stop putting arguements forward that you hope will derail the exit All your well informed intelligent well read arguements are just smoke and mirrors Just my opinion
Agreed shame the same amount of effort is,nt put into supporting THEIR county though.
But we are supporting our own count(r)y. You're the ones who've sold your people out to economic uncertainty and sold your country out to possible breakup and disunity. And all for a bunch of meaningless slogans. How's that putting any effort into supporting your own country. Sounds more like sedition, treachery and a good does of perfidy to me.
Just maybe we thought that the EU was a doomed institution up its own ass, unable to account for its income and expenditure and hell-bent on greater control. That really does not sound like sedition or treachery. Quite the opposite.
We could not reform it so decided it was time to leave it.
You might have thought lots of things, I don't know what you thought or really think now. All I do know is that you seen to be hell bent on creating as much disunity as possible between the UK and the EU and between the nations of the UK and the peoples legally living here in the UK (that's sedition). Many of you have said you know we'll be worse of but "don't give a shit" - acting to make your people and country worse of (that's treachery) and you've lied to your people (£350 million a day) to deceive them into believing what your trying to do is best for them (that's perfidy).
So yes, it really does sound like sedition, treachery and perfidy to me.
Erm, you're confusing me with someone else entirely.
I voted Brexit. I did not swallow all the propaganda.
As for creating disunity with people living in this country, why the fook would you ever assume that was my motive?
I have told you why I decided. Ascribe whatever ulterior motives you want. They don't exist.
Like I said, I don't know what you (2nd person singular) actually think or thought but you (2nd person plural) all seem to me to be acting in a way that is seditious, treacherous and perfidious. I can't ascribe any other motives to it because they simply don't add up in any logical, reasonable, sensible or meaningful way.
I am a first person singular.
On the other hand, I have no idea what you were voting for.
I was voting to keep my country united and prosperous within in the largest, most democratically organised, wealthiest and nearest trading community in the world. I was voting to keep jobs from foreign companies here in the UK, I was voting for British people of all skill levels and abilities to have the right to seek out their future and possibly fortunes, to study, live, work and retire any where in Europe, I wad voting to keep my countries say in what happens in Europe and will affect it, I was voting to keep a strong and united voice by the UK and Europe against the ever growing threat from both the East and the Middle East, I was voting for the good of my country, all the nations that make parts of it and all the peoples who live in it. I wasn't voting for a load of meaningless slogans and jingoistic flag waving.
It sounds very much as if you were voting for jongoistic flag-waving crap. I voted for economic sense. There is no way that the silly philosophy behind the EU can survive.
I decided to get out of it before it collapsed. As opposed to continuing to wave some stupid European unity flag.
I wish to trade with Europe. I don't want to trade only with Europe or be a spoke in their wheel.
You voted because of Economics? Yet you voted against 90% of UK economists, against HM Treasury, against Nobel Prize winning economists, against the World Bank, against the IFS, against the IMF, etc. etc. etc. That makes no sense at all.
Which country does the UK currently NOT trade with, that you are looking forward to trading with in the future?
No, I voted against a corrupt and overruling organisation that took our money, decided how we should spend it and dictated our laws and with whom we could trade.
And I am very tired of appeals to those economic organisations that you perceive to be experts. I chose personal responsibility. You choose "experts." I have expressed where economic experts have gone rather wrong in the past but received no feedback.
I have known a very bright economist who was employed by the Chancellor to provide advice. You know, it did not matter who the Chancellor was, she was asked to give advice supporting the latest political thrust. Paymasters, eh? Your appeals to "recognised" bodies is a bit like saying, "I can't be arsed to work it out myself."
Sorry my mistake, I thought that you voted based on the economic arguements because you said "I voted for economic sense" but what you actually meant when you said "I voted for economic sense" is "I voted against a corrupt and overruling organisation that took our money, decided how we should spend it and dictated our laws and with whom we could trade."
I asked before and you couldn't answer me, maybe I'll try again. Which country is the UK currently NOT trading with that you want to trade with once we leave the EU?
Also which EU law are you most looking forward to no longer having to obey?
These are the points that you voted on, so they should be easy enough for you to answer.
Regarding the experts, it's blindingly obvious, to me at least, that leaving the EU is bad for the economy, they are our largest and nearest trading partner, the experts just happen to agree with me, so I'm not ducking any personal responsibility at all. I will say though that they know more about the economy than I do. It would take a very arrogant person to say that people and organisations with a lot more training, experience and qualifications than me, know less about a subject than I do. Dont you think?
You put your faith in economic "experts" paid to put an opinion.
I put my faith in my knowledge of the world and my perception of this European Union.
You believe in other people's opinion. I believe in mine.
I was asked to vote and I did so.
The difference between you and I is that I did so based upon my opinion and not of that espoused by an "expert.""I'm becoming increasingly convinced that if one of these so called experts told CLCC to go jump off a cliff because it's good for them, they would readily go and do it. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Fuel prices where already coming down as OPEC are reducing output But fuel goes up and down all yhe time Same as food prices up and down all the time All the experts in the world can predict and forecast cut the giblets ftom a chicken and read the signs !!!!! In the end its guesswork I grant you its informed guesswork but thats all it is The exit is going to happen nothing will stop that not you not your experts so stop putting arguements forward that you hope will derail the exit All your well informed intelligent well read arguements are just smoke and mirrors Just my opinion
Agreed shame the same amount of effort is,nt put into supporting THEIR county though.
But we are supporting our own count(r)y. You're the ones who've sold your people out to economic uncertainty and sold your country out to possible breakup and disunity. And all for a bunch of meaningless slogans. How's that putting any effort into supporting your own country. Sounds more like sedition, treachery and a good does of perfidy to me.
Just maybe we thought that the EU was a doomed institution up its own ass, unable to account for its income and expenditure and hell-bent on greater control. That really does not sound like sedition or treachery. Quite the opposite.
We could not reform it so decided it was time to leave it.
You might have thought lots of things, I don't know what you thought or really think now. All I do know is that you seen to be hell bent on creating as much disunity as possible between the UK and the EU and between the nations of the UK and the peoples legally living here in the UK (that's sedition). Many of you have said you know we'll be worse of but "don't give a shit" - acting to make your people and country worse of (that's treachery) and you've lied to your people (£350 million a day) to deceive them into believing what your trying to do is best for them (that's perfidy).
So yes, it really does sound like sedition, treachery and perfidy to me.
Erm, you're confusing me with someone else entirely.
I voted Brexit. I did not swallow all the propaganda.
As for creating disunity with people living in this country, why the fook would you ever assume that was my motive?
I have told you why I decided. Ascribe whatever ulterior motives you want. They don't exist.
Like I said, I don't know what you (2nd person singular) actually think or thought but you (2nd person plural) all seem to me to be acting in a way that is seditious, treacherous and perfidious. I can't ascribe any other motives to it because they simply don't add up in any logical, reasonable, sensible or meaningful way.
I am a first person singular.
On the other hand, I have no idea what you were voting for.
I was voting to keep my country united and prosperous within in the largest, most democratically organised, wealthiest and nearest trading community in the world. I was voting to keep jobs from foreign companies here in the UK, I was voting for British people of all skill levels and abilities to have the right to seek out their future and possibly fortunes, to study, live, work and retire any where in Europe, I wad voting to keep my countries say in what happens in Europe and will affect it, I was voting to keep a strong and united voice by the UK and Europe against the ever growing threat from both the East and the Middle East, I was voting for the good of my country, all the nations that make parts of it and all the peoples who live in it. I wasn't voting for a load of meaningless slogans and jingoistic flag waving.
It sounds very much as if you were voting for jongoistic flag-waving crap. I voted for economic sense. There is no way that the silly philosophy behind the EU can survive.
I decided to get out of it before it collapsed. As opposed to continuing to wave some stupid European unity flag.
I wish to trade with Europe. I don't want to trade only with Europe or be a spoke in their wheel.
You voted because of Economics? Yet you voted against 90% of UK economists, against HM Treasury, against Nobel Prize winning economists, against the World Bank, against the IFS, against the IMF, etc. etc. etc. That makes no sense at all.
Which country does the UK currently NOT trade with, that you are looking forward to trading with in the future?
No, I voted against a corrupt and overruling organisation that took our money, decided how we should spend it and dictated our laws and with whom we could trade.
And I am very tired of appeals to those economic organisations that you perceive to be experts. I chose personal responsibility. You choose "experts." I have expressed where economic experts have gone rather wrong in the past but received no feedback.
I have known a very bright economist who was employed by the Chancellor to provide advice. You know, it did not matter who the Chancellor was, she was asked to give advice supporting the latest political thrust. Paymasters, eh? Your appeals to "recognised" bodies is a bit like saying, "I can't be arsed to work it out myself."
Sorry my mistake, I thought that you voted based on the economic arguements because you said "I voted for economic sense" but what you actually meant when you said "I voted for economic sense" is "I voted against a corrupt and overruling organisation that took our money, decided how we should spend it and dictated our laws and with whom we could trade."
I asked before and you couldn't answer me, maybe I'll try again. Which country is the UK currently NOT trading with that you want to trade with once we leave the EU?
Also which EU law are you most looking forward to no longer having to obey?
These are the points that you voted on, so they should be easy enough for you to answer.
Regarding the experts, it's blindingly obvious, to me at least, that leaving the EU is bad for the economy, they are our largest and nearest trading partner, the experts just happen to agree with me, so I'm not ducking any personal responsibility at all. I will say though that they know more about the economy than I do. It would take a very arrogant person to say that people and organisations with a lot more training, experience and qualifications than me, know less about a subject than I do. Dont you think?
You put your faith in economic "experts" paid to put an opinion.
I put my faith in my knowledge of the world and my perception of this European Union.
You believe in other people's opinion. I believe in mine.
I was asked to vote and I did so.
The difference between you and I is that I did so based upon my opinion and not of that espoused by an "expert."
I'm becoming increasingly convinced that if one of these so called experts told CLCC to go jump off a cliff because it's good for them, they would readily go and do it. "Unlike yourself who would much rather throw your country, your people and their wealth over the cliff edge of economic uncertainty. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Fuel prices where already coming down as OPEC are reducing output But fuel goes up and down all yhe time Same as food prices up and down all the time All the experts in the world can predict and forecast cut the giblets ftom a chicken and read the signs !!!!! In the end its guesswork I grant you its informed guesswork but thats all it is The exit is going to happen nothing will stop that not you not your experts so stop putting arguements forward that you hope will derail the exit All your well informed intelligent well read arguements are just smoke and mirrors Just my opinion
Agreed shame the same amount of effort is,nt put into supporting THEIR county though.
But we are supporting our own count(r)y. You're the ones who've sold your people out to economic uncertainty and sold your country out to possible breakup and disunity. And all for a bunch of meaningless slogans. How's that putting any effort into supporting your own country. Sounds more like sedition, treachery and a good does of perfidy to me.
Just maybe we thought that the EU was a doomed institution up its own ass, unable to account for its income and expenditure and hell-bent on greater control. That really does not sound like sedition or treachery. Quite the opposite.
We could not reform it so decided it was time to leave it.
You might have thought lots of things, I don't know what you thought or really think now. All I do know is that you seen to be hell bent on creating as much disunity as possible between the UK and the EU and between the nations of the UK and the peoples legally living here in the UK (that's sedition). Many of you have said you know we'll be worse of but "don't give a shit" - acting to make your people and country worse of (that's treachery) and you've lied to your people (£350 million a day) to deceive them into believing what your trying to do is best for them (that's perfidy).
So yes, it really does sound like sedition, treachery and perfidy to me.
Erm, you're confusing me with someone else entirely.
I voted Brexit. I did not swallow all the propaganda.
As for creating disunity with people living in this country, why the fook would you ever assume that was my motive?
I have told you why I decided. Ascribe whatever ulterior motives you want. They don't exist.
Like I said, I don't know what you (2nd person singular) actually think or thought but you (2nd person plural) all seem to me to be acting in a way that is seditious, treacherous and perfidious. I can't ascribe any other motives to it because they simply don't add up in any logical, reasonable, sensible or meaningful way.
I am a first person singular.
On the other hand, I have no idea what you were voting for.
I was voting to keep my country united and prosperous within in the largest, most democratically organised, wealthiest and nearest trading community in the world. I was voting to keep jobs from foreign companies here in the UK, I was voting for British people of all skill levels and abilities to have the right to seek out their future and possibly fortunes, to study, live, work and retire any where in Europe, I wad voting to keep my countries say in what happens in Europe and will affect it, I was voting to keep a strong and united voice by the UK and Europe against the ever growing threat from both the East and the Middle East, I was voting for the good of my country, all the nations that make parts of it and all the peoples who live in it. I wasn't voting for a load of meaningless slogans and jingoistic flag waving.
It sounds very much as if you were voting for jongoistic flag-waving crap. I voted for economic sense. There is no way that the silly philosophy behind the EU can survive.
I decided to get out of it before it collapsed. As opposed to continuing to wave some stupid European unity flag.
I wish to trade with Europe. I don't want to trade only with Europe or be a spoke in their wheel.
You voted because of Economics? Yet you voted against 90% of UK economists, against HM Treasury, against Nobel Prize winning economists, against the World Bank, against the IFS, against the IMF, etc. etc. etc. That makes no sense at all.
Which country does the UK currently NOT trade with, that you are looking forward to trading with in the future?
No, I voted against a corrupt and overruling organisation that took our money, decided how we should spend it and dictated our laws and with whom we could trade.
And I am very tired of appeals to those economic organisations that you perceive to be experts. I chose personal responsibility. You choose "experts." I have expressed where economic experts have gone rather wrong in the past but received no feedback.
I have known a very bright economist who was employed by the Chancellor to provide advice. You know, it did not matter who the Chancellor was, she was asked to give advice supporting the latest political thrust. Paymasters, eh? Your appeals to "recognised" bodies is a bit like saying, "I can't be arsed to work it out myself."
I'm no economic expert but how does voting to make trade harder with our biggest, wealthiest and closets customers in the unsure hope that we might increase our trade with other mostly smaller, poorer and further away customers equate show any level of responsibility, personal or otherwise. You don't have to an economic expert to know that that clearly is more likely to lead to less trade, not more.
Well, with just a little bit of skill, we will still be able to trade with the EU ... and any other country who wants to trade with us. I certainly do not want the EU to dictate who we can and can't reach a deal with, as is currently the case. Madness."I am satisfied that people will still buy our goods so I am not too concerned. Why would anyone stop buying goods just because we have left the EU. We are now in control and can negotiate our own terms. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Fuel prices where already coming down as OPEC are reducing output But fuel goes up and down all yhe time Same as food prices up and down all the time All the experts in the world can predict and forecast cut the giblets ftom a chicken and read the signs !!!!! In the end its guesswork I grant you its informed guesswork but thats all it is The exit is going to happen nothing will stop that not you not your experts so stop putting arguements forward that you hope will derail the exit All your well informed intelligent well read arguements are just smoke and mirrors Just my opinion
Agreed shame the same amount of effort is,nt put into supporting THEIR county though.
But we are supporting our own count(r)y. You're the ones who've sold your people out to economic uncertainty and sold your country out to possible breakup and disunity. And all for a bunch of meaningless slogans. How's that putting any effort into supporting your own country. Sounds more like sedition, treachery and a good does of perfidy to me.
Just maybe we thought that the EU was a doomed institution up its own ass, unable to account for its income and expenditure and hell-bent on greater control. That really does not sound like sedition or treachery. Quite the opposite.
We could not reform it so decided it was time to leave it.
You might have thought lots of things, I don't know what you thought or really think now. All I do know is that you seen to be hell bent on creating as much disunity as possible between the UK and the EU and between the nations of the UK and the peoples legally living here in the UK (that's sedition). Many of you have said you know we'll be worse of but "don't give a shit" - acting to make your people and country worse of (that's treachery) and you've lied to your people (£350 million a day) to deceive them into believing what your trying to do is best for them (that's perfidy).
So yes, it really does sound like sedition, treachery and perfidy to me.
Erm, you're confusing me with someone else entirely.
I voted Brexit. I did not swallow all the propaganda.
As for creating disunity with people living in this country, why the fook would you ever assume that was my motive?
I have told you why I decided. Ascribe whatever ulterior motives you want. They don't exist.
Like I said, I don't know what you (2nd person singular) actually think or thought but you (2nd person plural) all seem to me to be acting in a way that is seditious, treacherous and perfidious. I can't ascribe any other motives to it because they simply don't add up in any logical, reasonable, sensible or meaningful way.
I am a first person singular.
On the other hand, I have no idea what you were voting for.
I was voting to keep my country united and prosperous within in the largest, most democratically organised, wealthiest and nearest trading community in the world. I was voting to keep jobs from foreign companies here in the UK, I was voting for British people of all skill levels and abilities to have the right to seek out their future and possibly fortunes, to study, live, work and retire any where in Europe, I wad voting to keep my countries say in what happens in Europe and will affect it, I was voting to keep a strong and united voice by the UK and Europe against the ever growing threat from both the East and the Middle East, I was voting for the good of my country, all the nations that make parts of it and all the peoples who live in it. I wasn't voting for a load of meaningless slogans and jingoistic flag waving.
It sounds very much as if you were voting for jongoistic flag-waving crap. I voted for economic sense. There is no way that the silly philosophy behind the EU can survive.
I decided to get out of it before it collapsed. As opposed to continuing to wave some stupid European unity flag.
I wish to trade with Europe. I don't want to trade only with Europe or be a spoke in their wheel.
You voted because of Economics? Yet you voted against 90% of UK economists, against HM Treasury, against Nobel Prize winning economists, against the World Bank, against the IFS, against the IMF, etc. etc. etc. That makes no sense at all.
Which country does the UK currently NOT trade with, that you are looking forward to trading with in the future?
No, I voted against a corrupt and overruling organisation that took our money, decided how we should spend it and dictated our laws and with whom we could trade.
And I am very tired of appeals to those economic organisations that you perceive to be experts. I chose personal responsibility. You choose "experts." I have expressed where economic experts have gone rather wrong in the past but received no feedback.
I have known a very bright economist who was employed by the Chancellor to provide advice. You know, it did not matter who the Chancellor was, she was asked to give advice supporting the latest political thrust. Paymasters, eh? Your appeals to "recognised" bodies is a bit like saying, "I can't be arsed to work it out myself."
Sorry my mistake, I thought that you voted based on the economic arguements because you said "I voted for economic sense" but what you actually meant when you said "I voted for economic sense" is "I voted against a corrupt and overruling organisation that took our money, decided how we should spend it and dictated our laws and with whom we could trade."
I asked before and you couldn't answer me, maybe I'll try again. Which country is the UK currently NOT trading with that you want to trade with once we leave the EU?
Also which EU law are you most looking forward to no longer having to obey?
These are the points that you voted on, so they should be easy enough for you to answer.
Regarding the experts, it's blindingly obvious, to me at least, that leaving the EU is bad for the economy, they are our largest and nearest trading partner, the experts just happen to agree with me, so I'm not ducking any personal responsibility at all. I will say though that they know more about the economy than I do. It would take a very arrogant person to say that people and organisations with a lot more training, experience and qualifications than me, know less about a subject than I do. Dont you think?
You put your faith in economic "experts" paid to put an opinion.
I put my faith in my knowledge of the world and my perception of this European Union.
You believe in other people's opinion. I believe in mine.
I was asked to vote and I did so.
The difference between you and I is that I did so based upon my opinion and not of that espoused by an "expert.""NASA are experts on space, they say the earth goes round the sun. Do you agree with them? If you do, does that mean that you would jump off a cliff if they told you to? You guys are quite happy to vote for Economic suicide if Farage tells you to. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Fuel prices where already coming down as OPEC are reducing output But fuel goes up and down all yhe time Same as food prices up and down all the time All the experts in the world can predict and forecast cut the giblets ftom a chicken and read the signs !!!!! In the end its guesswork I grant you its informed guesswork but thats all it is The exit is going to happen nothing will stop that not you not your experts so stop putting arguements forward that you hope will derail the exit All your well informed intelligent well read arguements are just smoke and mirrors Just my opinion
Agreed shame the same amount of effort is,nt put into supporting THEIR county though.
But we are supporting our own count(r)y. You're the ones who've sold your people out to economic uncertainty and sold your country out to possible breakup and disunity. And all for a bunch of meaningless slogans. How's that putting any effort into supporting your own country. Sounds more like sedition, treachery and a good does of perfidy to me.
Just maybe we thought that the EU was a doomed institution up its own ass, unable to account for its income and expenditure and hell-bent on greater control. That really does not sound like sedition or treachery. Quite the opposite.
We could not reform it so decided it was time to leave it.
You might have thought lots of things, I don't know what you thought or really think now. All I do know is that you seen to be hell bent on creating as much disunity as possible between the UK and the EU and between the nations of the UK and the peoples legally living here in the UK (that's sedition). Many of you have said you know we'll be worse of but "don't give a shit" - acting to make your people and country worse of (that's treachery) and you've lied to your people (£350 million a day) to deceive them into believing what your trying to do is best for them (that's perfidy).
So yes, it really does sound like sedition, treachery and perfidy to me.
Erm, you're confusing me with someone else entirely.
I voted Brexit. I did not swallow all the propaganda.
As for creating disunity with people living in this country, why the fook would you ever assume that was my motive?
I have told you why I decided. Ascribe whatever ulterior motives you want. They don't exist.
Like I said, I don't know what you (2nd person singular) actually think or thought but you (2nd person plural) all seem to me to be acting in a way that is seditious, treacherous and perfidious. I can't ascribe any other motives to it because they simply don't add up in any logical, reasonable, sensible or meaningful way.
I am a first person singular.
On the other hand, I have no idea what you were voting for.
I was voting to keep my country united and prosperous within in the largest, most democratically organised, wealthiest and nearest trading community in the world. I was voting to keep jobs from foreign companies here in the UK, I was voting for British people of all skill levels and abilities to have the right to seek out their future and possibly fortunes, to study, live, work and retire any where in Europe, I wad voting to keep my countries say in what happens in Europe and will affect it, I was voting to keep a strong and united voice by the UK and Europe against the ever growing threat from both the East and the Middle East, I was voting for the good of my country, all the nations that make parts of it and all the peoples who live in it. I wasn't voting for a load of meaningless slogans and jingoistic flag waving.
It sounds very much as if you were voting for jongoistic flag-waving crap. I voted for economic sense. There is no way that the silly philosophy behind the EU can survive.
I decided to get out of it before it collapsed. As opposed to continuing to wave some stupid European unity flag.
I wish to trade with Europe. I don't want to trade only with Europe or be a spoke in their wheel.
You voted because of Economics? Yet you voted against 90% of UK economists, against HM Treasury, against Nobel Prize winning economists, against the World Bank, against the IFS, against the IMF, etc. etc. etc. That makes no sense at all.
Which country does the UK currently NOT trade with, that you are looking forward to trading with in the future?
No, I voted against a corrupt and overruling organisation that took our money, decided how we should spend it and dictated our laws and with whom we could trade.
And I am very tired of appeals to those economic organisations that you perceive to be experts. I chose personal responsibility. You choose "experts." I have expressed where economic experts have gone rather wrong in the past but received no feedback.
I have known a very bright economist who was employed by the Chancellor to provide advice. You know, it did not matter who the Chancellor was, she was asked to give advice supporting the latest political thrust. Paymasters, eh? Your appeals to "recognised" bodies is a bit like saying, "I can't be arsed to work it out myself."
Sorry my mistake, I thought that you voted based on the economic arguements because you said "I voted for economic sense" but what you actually meant when you said "I voted for economic sense" is "I voted against a corrupt and overruling organisation that took our money, decided how we should spend it and dictated our laws and with whom we could trade."
I asked before and you couldn't answer me, maybe I'll try again. Which country is the UK currently NOT trading with that you want to trade with once we leave the EU?
Also which EU law are you most looking forward to no longer having to obey?
These are the points that you voted on, so they should be easy enough for you to answer.
Regarding the experts, it's blindingly obvious, to me at least, that leaving the EU is bad for the economy, they are our largest and nearest trading partner, the experts just happen to agree with me, so I'm not ducking any personal responsibility at all. I will say though that they know more about the economy than I do. It would take a very arrogant person to say that people and organisations with a lot more training, experience and qualifications than me, know less about a subject than I do. Dont you think?
You put your faith in economic "experts" paid to put an opinion.
I put my faith in my knowledge of the world and my perception of this European Union.
You believe in other people's opinion. I believe in mine.
I was asked to vote and I did so.
The difference between you and I is that I did so based upon my opinion and not of that espoused by an "expert."
NASA are experts on space, they say the earth goes round the sun. Do you agree with them? If you do, does that mean that you would jump off a cliff if they told you to?
You guys are quite happy to vote for Economic suicide if Farage tells you to."I think that the theory that the earth orbits the sun was well established before NASA came into being. I would not do anything Mr Garage asked of me. Would you jump off a cliff because the IMF or any other so-called expert told you to? It seems to be your argument, not mine. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So when I agree with experts I'm an idiot, what about when you agree with experts like NASA? Suddenly you're not an idiot? So can someone please tell me what country that we are not trading with, that we will start trading with once we leave the EU? " the difference is we won't be in a customs union when we do will we? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So when I agree with experts I'm an idiot, what about when you agree with experts like NASA? Suddenly you're not an idiot? So can someone please tell me what country that we are not trading with, that we will start trading with once we leave the EU? " I am simply asking you to take personal responsibility for your decisions as opposed to relying on unreliable economic bodies. You can rely on the IMF if you wish but they do not have a great track record in predictions. Have we been able to negotiate our own trade deal with Australia? With the USA? No, because our membership of the overriding EU precludes us from doing so. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So when I agree with experts I'm an idiot, what about when you agree with experts like NASA? Suddenly you're not an idiot? So can someone please tell me what country that we are not trading with, that we will start trading with once we leave the EU? I am simply asking you to take personal responsibility for your decisions as opposed to relying on unreliable economic bodies. You can rely on the IMF if you wish but they do not have a great track record in predictions. Have we been able to negotiate our own trade deal with Australia? With the USA? No, because our membership of the overriding EU precludes us from doing so." and some small corner of Belgium has just blocked the EU deal with Canada | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So when I agree with experts I'm an idiot, what about when you agree with experts like NASA? Suddenly you're not an idiot? So can someone please tell me what country that we are not trading with, that we will start trading with once we leave the EU? " When has any prediction from all these experts been accurate, did any of these experts predict the banking crash? It makes no difference which side predicts what they are doing it from a perspective that is not open minded. The Treasury havent been able to predict the economy accurately over a short term of less than a year once in my memory,yet you believe they can do it over 15 years. The IMF, world bank etc all said the coalition economic policies were wrong and would lead to a worse economy yet we have one of the best in the world, the imf have even raised their forecast for the UK less than four months after the vote. The "experts" have been wrong time after time, what makes you think they will be right this time? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So when I agree with experts I'm an idiot, what about when you agree with experts like NASA? Suddenly you're not an idiot? So can someone please tell me what country that we are not trading with, that we will start trading with once we leave the EU? I am simply asking you to take personal responsibility for your decisions as opposed to relying on unreliable economic bodies. You can rely on the IMF if you wish but they do not have a great track record in predictions. Have we been able to negotiate our own trade deal with Australia? With the USA? No, because our membership of the overriding EU precludes us from doing so." Well I'm asking you to do some due diligence and look at some expert opinions. We already trade with Australia and the US. I asked you to name a country that we are not already trading with, that we will start trading with once we leave. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So when I agree with experts I'm an idiot, what about when you agree with experts like NASA? Suddenly you're not an idiot? So can someone please tell me what country that we are not trading with, that we will start trading with once we leave the EU? When has any prediction from all these experts been accurate, did any of these experts predict the banking crash? It makes no difference which side predicts what they are doing it from a perspective that is not open minded. The Treasury havent been able to predict the economy accurately over a short term of less than a year once in my memory,yet you believe they can do it over 15 years. The IMF, world bank etc all said the coalition economic policies were wrong and would lead to a worse economy yet we have one of the best in the world, the imf have even raised their forecast for the UK less than four months after the vote. The "experts" have been wrong time after time, what makes you think they will be right this time? " Nope, they lowered them. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So leaked Treasury documents show that a Hard Brexit will cost the UK between £38bn and £66bn per year in lost tax revenues. So what services do you think we should cut? The MOD costs us £45bn a year, so even if we scrapped it entirely, we would still be £21bn short. We could cut Education, close down all of those schools and universities (cos who needs experts right ) that would save us £38bn, so if we take the lower estimate that would cover all of it, simples, however if we take the higher number we are still £28bn short, so I guess we would also have to cut quite heavily elsewhere.
Or Health, those Brexitier tell us that load of our health budget is spent on foreigners anyway, so if we cut 48% of the health budget, we probably wouldn’t even notice, right? Just sack half the nurses, close half the hospitals, close half the GPs surgeries, get rid of half of the ambulances etc.
Or as so many pensioners voted for Brexit, maybe we should take it from the pension budget, and cut that by 42%? Thats what they voted for, right?
So what do you think we should cut to find £66bn of savings each year? Or do you think maybe we should scrap the idea of a “Hard Brexit” after all?"The Arts Council Grant , for a start ! Oversees Aid , but help to be given in kind not money ! Let Scotland go ! Thiers 3 nice saves for a Start | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So when I agree with experts I'm an idiot, what about when you agree with experts like NASA? Suddenly you're not an idiot? So can someone please tell me what country that we are not trading with, that we will start trading with once we leave the EU? When has any prediction from all these experts been accurate, did any of these experts predict the banking crash? It makes no difference which side predicts what they are doing it from a perspective that is not open minded. The Treasury havent been able to predict the economy accurately over a short term of less than a year once in my memory,yet you believe they can do it over 15 years. The IMF, world bank etc all said the coalition economic policies were wrong and would lead to a worse economy yet we have one of the best in the world, the imf have even raised their forecast for the UK less than four months after the vote. The "experts" have been wrong time after time, what makes you think they will be right this time? Nope, they lowered them. " The long term forecast not the short term one which they have more chance of getting right. Try answering the point which expert has ever been right and the specific point about the uk economy during the coalition term . Were they right ? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So when I agree with experts I'm an idiot, what about when you agree with experts like NASA? Suddenly you're not an idiot? So can someone please tell me what country that we are not trading with, that we will start trading with once we leave the EU? When has any prediction from all these experts been accurate, did any of these experts predict the banking crash? It makes no difference which side predicts what they are doing it from a perspective that is not open minded. The Treasury havent been able to predict the economy accurately over a short term of less than a year once in my memory,yet you believe they can do it over 15 years. The IMF, world bank etc all said the coalition economic policies were wrong and would lead to a worse economy yet we have one of the best in the world, the imf have even raised their forecast for the UK less than four months after the vote. The "experts" have been wrong time after time, what makes you think they will be right this time? Nope, they lowered them. The long term forecast not the short term one which they have more chance of getting right. Try answering the point which expert has ever been right and the specific point about the uk economy during the coalition term . Were they right ?" The "expert economists" are never right. It is an art and not a science. I know, trading in sub prime deficits is a good idea, right? You can trust 'em, yeah. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So leaked Treasury documents show that a Hard Brexit will cost the UK between £38bn and £66bn per year in lost tax revenues. So what services do you think we should cut? The MOD costs us £45bn a year, so even if we scrapped it entirely, we would still be £21bn short. We could cut Education, close down all of those schools and universities (cos who needs experts right ) that would save us £38bn, so if we take the lower estimate that would cover all of it, simples, however if we take the higher number we are still £28bn short, so I guess we would also have to cut quite heavily elsewhere.
Or Health, those Brexitier tell us that load of our health budget is spent on foreigners anyway, so if we cut 48% of the health budget, we probably wouldn’t even notice, right? Just sack half the nurses, close half the hospitals, close half the GPs surgeries, get rid of half of the ambulances etc.
Or as so many pensioners voted for Brexit, maybe we should take it from the pension budget, and cut that by 42%? Thats what they voted for, right?
So what do you think we should cut to find £66bn of savings each year? Or do you think maybe we should scrap the idea of a “Hard Brexit” after all?
The Arts Council Grant , for a start !
Oversees Aid , but help to be given in kind not money !
Let Scotland go !
Thiers 3 nice saves for a Start "Lots of overseas aid is already given in aid. Those three cuts are no where close to totalling £66bn, so you have a lot more cutting to do, but at least you have tried. The vast majority of people haven't said where they would make the cuts they voted for. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So when I agree with experts I'm an idiot, what about when you agree with experts like NASA? Suddenly you're not an idiot? So can someone please tell me what country that we are not trading with, that we will start trading with once we leave the EU? I am simply asking you to take personal responsibility for your decisions as opposed to relying on unreliable economic bodies. You can rely on the IMF if you wish but they do not have a great track record in predictions. Have we been able to negotiate our own trade deal with Australia? With the USA? No, because our membership of the overriding EU precludes us from doing so. Well I'm asking you to do some due diligence and look at some expert opinions. We already trade with Australia and the US. I asked you to name a country that we are not already trading with, that we will start trading with once we leave. " Wrong, the EU does not currently have a trade deal with the USA. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So when I agree with experts I'm an idiot, what about when you agree with experts like NASA? Suddenly you're not an idiot? So can someone please tell me what country that we are not trading with, that we will start trading with once we leave the EU? I am simply asking you to take personal responsibility for your decisions as opposed to relying on unreliable economic bodies. You can rely on the IMF if you wish but they do not have a great track record in predictions. Have we been able to negotiate our own trade deal with Australia? With the USA? No, because our membership of the overriding EU precludes us from doing so. Well I'm asking you to do some due diligence and look at some expert opinions. We already trade with Australia and the US. I asked you to name a country that we are not already trading with, that we will start trading with once we leave. Wrong, the EU does not currently have a trade deal with the USA. " Yet we still trade with them. So again, I will ask, which country do we not currently trade with, that you are looking forward to trading with once we leave the EU? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So leaked Treasury documents show that a Hard Brexit will cost the UK between £38bn and £66bn per year in lost tax revenues. So what services do you think we should cut? The MOD costs us £45bn a year, so even if we scrapped it entirely, we would still be £21bn short. We could cut Education, close down all of those schools and universities (cos who needs experts right ) that would save us £38bn, so if we take the lower estimate that would cover all of it, simples, however if we take the higher number we are still £28bn short, so I guess we would also have to cut quite heavily elsewhere.
Or Health, those Brexitier tell us that load of our health budget is spent on foreigners anyway, so if we cut 48% of the health budget, we probably wouldn’t even notice, right? Just sack half the nurses, close half the hospitals, close half the GPs surgeries, get rid of half of the ambulances etc.
Or as so many pensioners voted for Brexit, maybe we should take it from the pension budget, and cut that by 42%? Thats what they voted for, right?
So what do you think we should cut to find £66bn of savings each year? Or do you think maybe we should scrap the idea of a “Hard Brexit” after all?
The Arts Council Grant , for a start !
Oversees Aid , but help to be given in kind not money !
Let Scotland go !
Thiers 3 nice saves for a Start
Lots of overseas aid is already given in aid. Those three cuts are no where close to totalling £66bn, so you have a lot more cutting to do, but at least you have tried. The vast majority of people haven't said where they would make the cuts they voted for. "The £66bn is not a fact, once again it is a forecast/prediction for 15 years in the future based on a load of dodgy assumptions by George Osborne's Treasury for the Remain campaign. You may as well write to Mystic Meg and ask her what will happen in 15 years time for what it's worth. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So when I agree with experts I'm an idiot, what about when you agree with experts like NASA? Suddenly you're not an idiot? So can someone please tell me what country that we are not trading with, that we will start trading with once we leave the EU? I am simply asking you to take personal responsibility for your decisions as opposed to relying on unreliable economic bodies. You can rely on the IMF if you wish but they do not have a great track record in predictions. Have we been able to negotiate our own trade deal with Australia? With the USA? No, because our membership of the overriding EU precludes us from doing so. Well I'm asking you to do some due diligence and look at some expert opinions. We already trade with Australia and the US. I asked you to name a country that we are not already trading with, that we will start trading with once we leave. Wrong, the EU does not currently have a trade deal with the USA. Yet we still trade with them. So again, I will ask, which country do we not currently trade with, that you are looking forward to trading with once we leave the EU? " Using that logic then we don't need a trade deal with the EU to trade with them either do we. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So when I agree with experts I'm an idiot, what about when you agree with experts like NASA? Suddenly you're not an idiot? So can someone please tell me what country that we are not trading with, that we will start trading with once we leave the EU? I am simply asking you to take personal responsibility for your decisions as opposed to relying on unreliable economic bodies. You can rely on the IMF if you wish but they do not have a great track record in predictions. Have we been able to negotiate our own trade deal with Australia? With the USA? No, because our membership of the overriding EU precludes us from doing so. Well I'm asking you to do some due diligence and look at some expert opinions. We already trade with Australia and the US. I asked you to name a country that we are not already trading with, that we will start trading with once we leave. Wrong, the EU does not currently have a trade deal with the USA. Yet we still trade with them. So again, I will ask, which country do we not currently trade with, that you are looking forward to trading with once we leave the EU? Using that logic then we don't need a trade deal with the EU to trade with them either do we. " Should I keep on asking? Can you please name a country we are not currently trading with that you want to trade with once we leave the EU? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So when I agree with experts I'm an idiot, what about when you agree with experts like NASA? Suddenly you're not an idiot? So can someone please tell me what country that we are not trading with, that we will start trading with once we leave the EU? I am simply asking you to take personal responsibility for your decisions as opposed to relying on unreliable economic bodies. You can rely on the IMF if you wish but they do not have a great track record in predictions. Have we been able to negotiate our own trade deal with Australia? With the USA? No, because our membership of the overriding EU precludes us from doing so. Well I'm asking you to do some due diligence and look at some expert opinions. We already trade with Australia and the US. I asked you to name a country that we are not already trading with, that we will start trading with once we leave. Wrong, the EU does not currently have a trade deal with the USA. Yet we still trade with them. So again, I will ask, which country do we not currently trade with, that you are looking forward to trading with once we leave the EU? Using that logic then we don't need a trade deal with the EU to trade with them either do we. Should I keep on asking? Can you please name a country we are not currently trading with that you want to trade with once we leave the EU? " Outside of the WTO? Fook all, because we are not allowed. After the exit? Whoever we want and on whatever terms we can negotiate. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So when I agree with experts I'm an idiot, what about when you agree with experts like NASA? Suddenly you're not an idiot? So can someone please tell me what country that we are not trading with, that we will start trading with once we leave the EU? When has any prediction from all these experts been accurate, did any of these experts predict the banking crash? It makes no difference which side predicts what they are doing it from a perspective that is not open minded. The Treasury havent been able to predict the economy accurately over a short term of less than a year once in my memory,yet you believe they can do it over 15 years. The IMF, world bank etc all said the coalition economic policies were wrong and would lead to a worse economy yet we have one of the best in the world, the imf have even raised their forecast for the UK less than four months after the vote. The "experts" have been wrong time after time, what makes you think they will be right this time? Nope, they lowered them. " So you admit the IMF's original forecast/prediction was wrong then. Who is to say the new forecast/prediction won't be wrong too? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So when I agree with experts I'm an idiot, what about when you agree with experts like NASA? Suddenly you're not an idiot? " What a nonsensical comparison. Are you seriously trying to compare hard, tangible scientific fact with the guessing game of economic forecasts and predictions??? Go and give your head a wobble, after this I'm not sure I can take anything you say seriously anymore. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So when I agree with experts I'm an idiot, what about when you agree with experts like NASA? Suddenly you're not an idiot? What a nonsensical comparison. Are you seriously trying to compare hard, tangible scientific fact with the guessing game of economic forecasts and predictions??? Go and give your head a wobble, after this I'm not sure I can take anything you say seriously anymore. " . It personally annoys the fuck out of me as well. Economics is not science and never has been.... Are there people educated in it, yes there is, but there's also people educated in cookery and that's not a science either..... Some cooks like putting salt in with potatoes others say it's salty enough already.... Science says potatoes are a starchy tuberous crop native to the Andes... Whether you should salt them or not is left to cooks | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So leaked Treasury documents show that a Hard Brexit will cost the UK between £38bn and £66bn per year in lost tax revenues. So what services do you think we should cut? The MOD costs us £45bn a year, so even if we scrapped it entirely, we would still be £21bn short. We could cut Education, close down all of those schools and universities (cos who needs experts right ) that would save us £38bn, so if we take the lower estimate that would cover all of it, simples, however if we take the higher number we are still £28bn short, so I guess we would also have to cut quite heavily elsewhere.
Or Health, those Brexitier tell us that load of our health budget is spent on foreigners anyway, so if we cut 48% of the health budget, we probably wouldn’t even notice, right? Just sack half the nurses, close half the hospitals, close half the GPs surgeries, get rid of half of the ambulances etc.
Or as so many pensioners voted for Brexit, maybe we should take it from the pension budget, and cut that by 42%? Thats what they voted for, right?
So what do you think we should cut to find £66bn of savings each year? Or do you think maybe we should scrap the idea of a “Hard Brexit” after all?
The Arts Council Grant , for a start !
Oversees Aid , but help to be given in kind not money !
Let Scotland go !
Thiers 3 nice saves for a Start
Lots of overseas aid is already given in aid. Those three cuts are no where close to totalling £66bn, so you have a lot more cutting to do, but at least you have tried. The vast majority of people haven't said where they would make the cuts they voted for. "I would also just have one tax rate ! But ? And it's a big but ! Thier would be no relief no loopholes no nowt ! Rich an poor would pay the same rate but the rich would have to All Thier tax no ifs or buts ! I would hope to cut Defence spending by totally changing how we look at our Armed Forces. defence would mean Defence ! This royal family could carry on but pay for themselves ! Lol enjoying this | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So when I agree with experts I'm an idiot, what about when you agree with experts like NASA? Suddenly you're not an idiot? So can someone please tell me what country that we are not trading with, that we will start trading with once we leave the EU? I am simply asking you to take personal responsibility for your decisions as opposed to relying on unreliable economic bodies. You can rely on the IMF if you wish but they do not have a great track record in predictions. Have we been able to negotiate our own trade deal with Australia? With the USA? No, because our membership of the overriding EU precludes us from doing so. Well I'm asking you to do some due diligence and look at some expert opinions. We already trade with Australia and the US. I asked you to name a country that we are not already trading with, that we will start trading with once we leave. Wrong, the EU does not currently have a trade deal with the USA. Yet we still trade with them. So again, I will ask, which country do we not currently trade with, that you are looking forward to trading with once we leave the EU? Using that logic then we don't need a trade deal with the EU to trade with them either do we. Should I keep on asking? Can you please name a country we are not currently trading with that you want to trade with once we leave the EU? Outside of the WTO? Fook all, because we are not allowed. After the exit? Whoever we want and on whatever terms we can negotiate. " And yet you can't name one? Curious. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So when I agree with experts I'm an idiot, what about when you agree with experts like NASA? Suddenly you're not an idiot? What a nonsensical comparison. Are you seriously trying to compare hard, tangible scientific fact with the guessing game of economic forecasts and predictions??? Go and give your head a wobble, after this I'm not sure I can take anything you say seriously anymore. " I gave up 3 days ago. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
Let's stop funding the BBC aswell
And Farmers
Benefit Cheats
Million Pound Fines for High Level Tax Avoidance !
Also to apply to Acountants who aid and abet it ! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"How much have I saved yet ?
Let's stop funding the BBC aswell
And Farmers
Benefit Cheats
Million Pound Fines for High Level Tax Avoidance !
Also to apply to Acountants who aid and abet it ! "I'll try and add it up for you later, but I think you still have more to go yet! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"How much have I saved yet ?
Let's stop funding the BBC aswell
And Farmers
Benefit Cheats
Million Pound Fines for High Level Tax Avoidance !
Also to apply to Acountants who aid and abet it !
I'll try and add it up for you later, but I think you still have more to go yet! "Ha ha il keep trying !
Ps I hope you have realised by now I'm neither Right or Left wing !
I agree with both and disagree with both sometimes !
As it should be | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"How much have I saved yet ?
Let's stop funding the BBC aswell
And Farmers
Benefit Cheats
Million Pound Fines for High Level Tax Avoidance !
Also to apply to Acountants who aid and abet it !
I'll try and add it up for you later, but I think you still have more to go yet! "Why not add it up now? Did you lose your calculator out of your pencil case? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" And yet you can't name one? Curious. " And yet you wont/cant answer questions aimed at you. Pot and Kettle. So once again when have these experts predictions ever been right ? Even over a period of 12 months they arent accurate yet we are meant to believe they can be over 15 years, NO one knows what is going to happen to the world economy,many believe that the banking crisis that may well erupt could spell real trouble and bring the pigeons home to roost, all this kicking the can down the road that has covered up the trouble is just going to make things worse in the long run, how much longer will the german people carry on bailing the euro zone out? IF reality is faced in the next few years we will be thankful we are out of it. The FACTS are that the euro zone has the worse economic growth performance in the world | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"based on FORECAST from the CONTROVERSIAL study of the PREDICTED impact of quitting the EU all according to a newspaper !!! the Times no less Based on a push by remainers to make leaving the single market look bad !!!!! C'mon guys all your doing is making yourselves look bitter and twisted. You cite evidence but you have no eveidence you have your experts predicting, thats it, the same experts that Britain would vote to remain, the same experst that ..... oh I give up and so should you lot " | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" And yet you can't name one? Curious. And yet you wont/cant answer questions aimed at you. Pot and Kettle. So once again when have these experts predictions ever been right ? Even over a period of 12 months they arent accurate yet we are meant to believe they can be over 15 years, NO one knows what is going to happen to the world economy,many believe that the banking crisis that may well erupt could spell real trouble and bring the pigeons home to roost, all this kicking the can down the road that has covered up the trouble is just going to make things worse in the long run, how much longer will the german people carry on bailing the euro zone out? IF reality is faced in the next few years we will be thankful we are out of it. The FACTS are that the euro zone has the worse economic growth performance in the world " When radical Brexiters can't even accept that inflation follows a currency devaluation the argument becomes pointless. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" And yet you can't name one? Curious. And yet you wont/cant answer questions aimed at you. Pot and Kettle. So once again when have these experts predictions ever been right ? Even over a period of 12 months they arent accurate yet we are meant to believe they can be over 15 years, NO one knows what is going to happen to the world economy,many believe that the banking crisis that may well erupt could spell real trouble and bring the pigeons home to roost, all this kicking the can down the road that has covered up the trouble is just going to make things worse in the long run, how much longer will the german people carry on bailing the euro zone out? IF reality is faced in the next few years we will be thankful we are out of it. The FACTS are that the euro zone has the worse economic growth performance in the world When radical Brexiters can't even accept that inflation follows a currency devaluation the argument becomes pointless." When certain Radical Remainers can't accept that they lost the referendum and we are leaving the EU, the argument also becomes pointless. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So when I agree with experts I'm an idiot, what about when you agree with experts like NASA? Suddenly you're not an idiot? So can someone please tell me what country that we are not trading with, that we will start trading with once we leave the EU? I am simply asking you to take personal responsibility for your decisions as opposed to relying on unreliable economic bodies. You can rely on the IMF if you wish but they do not have a great track record in predictions. Have we been able to negotiate our own trade deal with Australia? With the USA? No, because our membership of the overriding EU precludes us from doing so. Well I'm asking you to do some due diligence and look at some expert opinions. We already trade with Australia and the US. I asked you to name a country that we are not already trading with, that we will start trading with once we leave. Wrong, the EU does not currently have a trade deal with the USA. Yet we still trade with them. So again, I will ask, which country do we not currently trade with, that you are looking forward to trading with once we leave the EU? Using that logic then we don't need a trade deal with the EU to trade with them either do we. " No one, on either side of the argument, has said or is saying that you have to have a trade deal with anyone in order to trade. The argument is surly that having a comprehensive trade agreement with anyone; one that ensures trade is equitable and with a common set of rules with a fair arbitration; increases the amount of trade done between the parties of that agreement. So, the question still remains, who are we going to trade with once we leave the EU who we are not currently trading with now? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So when I agree with experts I'm an idiot, what about when you agree with experts like NASA? Suddenly you're not an idiot? So can someone please tell me what country that we are not trading with, that we will start trading with once we leave the EU? I am simply asking you to take personal responsibility for your decisions as opposed to relying on unreliable economic bodies. You can rely on the IMF if you wish but they do not have a great track record in predictions. Have we been able to negotiate our own trade deal with Australia? With the USA? No, because our membership of the overriding EU precludes us from doing so. Well I'm asking you to do some due diligence and look at some expert opinions. We already trade with Australia and the US. I asked you to name a country that we are not already trading with, that we will start trading with once we leave. Wrong, the EU does not currently have a trade deal with the USA. Yet we still trade with them. So again, I will ask, which country do we not currently trade with, that you are looking forward to trading with once we leave the EU? Using that logic then we don't need a trade deal with the EU to trade with them either do we. No one, on either side of the argument, has said or is saying that you have to have a trade deal with anyone in order to trade. The argument is surly that having a comprehensive trade agreement with anyone; one that ensures trade is equitable and with a common set of rules with a fair arbitration; increases the amount of trade done between the parties of that agreement. So, the question still remains, who are we going to trade with once we leave the EU who we are not currently trading with now?" It's not a question of who, is it? It's a question of how. And you answered it yourself, with a common set of rules and fair arbitration, but why confine that to the EU? It is small minded and outdated | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Is it about confining? I'd have thought, since leaving the EU means we have NO trade deals with anyone, a fact either not understood or cared about by the Brexiters, it is more a question of prioritising. So, can you tell me why you wouldn't think getting the right trading relationship with the trade bloc we do 50% of our trade with is not the most important thing? Is it the maths you struggle with?" it is important which is why we will get the right trading relationship. Who would want either side to suffer? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Is it about confining? I'd have thought, since leaving the EU means we have NO trade deals with anyone, a fact either not understood or cared about by the Brexiters, it is more a question of prioritising. So, can you tell me why you wouldn't think getting the right trading relationship with the trade bloc we do 50% of our trade with is not the most important thing? Is it the maths you struggle with?" EU countries are hardly going to suddenly stop buying our goods . A trading agreement is only a piece of paper. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"How much have I saved yet ?
Let's stop funding the BBC aswell
And Farmers
Benefit Cheats
Million Pound Fines for High Level Tax Avoidance !
Also to apply to Acountants who aid and abet it !
I'll try and add it up for you later, but I think you still have more to go yet!
Ha ha il keep trying !
Ps I hope you have realised by now I'm neither Right or Left wing !
I agree with both and disagree with both sometimes !
As it should be "Arts Council Grant - £366m Overseas Aid (Money only) - £964m (Tough one because I think (could be wrong) that you are concerned about money going to governments of other countries, that doesn’t really happen, so I have not included money given to the UN, or other international orgs, or money spent inside the UK, but I have included “project type interventions including multi region /centrally managed programs otherwise we wouldn’t have been to cut anything from the budget) Scotland - £800m Defence - £11bn (I have given you a saving of 25% of the existing budget as you said that “hope” to reduce it, but would mainly be repositioning its outlook from expeditionary to purely territorial defence) Royal Family - £43m BBC - £3.7bn Funding for Farmers - 2.4bn Cant really find a saving for benefits cheats as once they are found to be cheats, they stop getting the benefit and in a lot of cases have to pay it back. TOTAL SAVING £ 16.8 bn So you still need to find another £49.2 bn in savings unfortunately | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"How much have I saved yet ?
Let's stop funding the BBC aswell
And Farmers
Benefit Cheats
Million Pound Fines for High Level Tax Avoidance !
Also to apply to Acountants who aid and abet it !
I'll try and add it up for you later, but I think you still have more to go yet!
Ha ha il keep trying !
Ps I hope you have realised by now I'm neither Right or Left wing !
I agree with both and disagree with both sometimes !
As it should be
Arts Council Grant - £366m
Overseas Aid (Money only) - £964m (Tough one because I think (could be wrong) that you are concerned about money going to governments of other countries, that doesn’t really happen, so I have not included money given to the UN, or other international orgs, or money spent inside the UK, but I have included “project type interventions including multi region /centrally managed programs otherwise we wouldn’t have been to cut anything from the budget)
Scotland - £800m
Defence - £11bn (I have given you a saving of 25% of the existing budget as you said that “hope” to reduce it, but would mainly be repositioning its outlook from expeditionary to purely territorial defence)
Royal Family - £43m
BBC - £3.7bn
Funding for Farmers - 2.4bn
Cant really find a saving for benefits cheats as once they are found to be cheats, they stop getting the benefit and in a lot of cases have to pay it back.
TOTAL SAVING £ 16.8 bn
So you still need to find another £49.2 bn in savings unfortunately
"As so many people have pointed out we would not have trade agreements with anyone and would have to impose tariffs , we import roughly 500 billion pounds worth of goods a year so tariffs of 10% would raise 50 bn | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"How much have I saved yet ?
Let's stop funding the BBC aswell
And Farmers
Benefit Cheats
Million Pound Fines for High Level Tax Avoidance !
Also to apply to Acountants who aid and abet it !
I'll try and add it up for you later, but I think you still have more to go yet!
Ha ha il keep trying !
Ps I hope you have realised by now I'm neither Right or Left wing !
I agree with both and disagree with both sometimes !
As it should be
Arts Council Grant - £366m
Overseas Aid (Money only) - £964m (Tough one because I think (could be wrong) that you are concerned about money going to governments of other countries, that doesn’t really happen, so I have not included money given to the UN, or other international orgs, or money spent inside the UK, but I have included “project type interventions including multi region /centrally managed programs otherwise we wouldn’t have been to cut anything from the budget)
Scotland - £800m
Defence - £11bn (I have given you a saving of 25% of the existing budget as you said that “hope” to reduce it, but would mainly be repositioning its outlook from expeditionary to purely territorial defence)
Royal Family - £43m
BBC - £3.7bn
Funding for Farmers - 2.4bn
Cant really find a saving for benefits cheats as once they are found to be cheats, they stop getting the benefit and in a lot of cases have to pay it back.
TOTAL SAVING £ 16.8 bn
So you still need to find another £49.2 bn in savings unfortunately
"You have forgotten the NET figure of 12 billion we pay to the EU now AND YOU STILL HAVENT ANSWERED THE QUESTION ABOUT WHICH EXPERT PREDICTIONS EVER CAME TRUE !!!!!!!!!! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"How much have I saved yet ?
Let's stop funding the BBC aswell
And Farmers
Benefit Cheats
Million Pound Fines for High Level Tax Avoidance !
Also to apply to Acountants who aid and abet it !
I'll try and add it up for you later, but I think you still have more to go yet!
Ha ha il keep trying !
Ps I hope you have realised by now I'm neither Right or Left wing !
I agree with both and disagree with both sometimes !
As it should be
Arts Council Grant - £366m
Overseas Aid (Money only) - £964m (Tough one because I think (could be wrong) that you are concerned about money going to governments of other countries, that doesn’t really happen, so I have not included money given to the UN, or other international orgs, or money spent inside the UK, but I have included “project type interventions including multi region /centrally managed programs otherwise we wouldn’t have been to cut anything from the budget)
Scotland - £800m
Defence - £11bn (I have given you a saving of 25% of the existing budget as you said that “hope” to reduce it, but would mainly be repositioning its outlook from expeditionary to purely territorial defence)
Royal Family - £43m
BBC - £3.7bn
Funding for Farmers - 2.4bn
Cant really find a saving for benefits cheats as once they are found to be cheats, they stop getting the benefit and in a lot of cases have to pay it back.
TOTAL SAVING £ 16.8 bn
So you still need to find another £49.2 bn in savings unfortunately
"Once again the £65 billion figure is not a fact it's a forecast/prediction for the year 2030 based on a load of dodgy assumptions from George Osborne's Treasury to use in his remain campaign. As long as you continue to push this lie I will continue to correct you. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Just been reading an article in Telegraph written by the chief architect of the ECB experiment. He reckons the whole thing is just one huge great sham and by the sounds of it we were so wise to stay out of that pile of worthless paper. It now has over a trillion Euro's in junk bonds where they've bought up bad debt from countries like spain, Greece and portugal that will never ever pay it back. Maybe our own currencies demise is fairly temporary and has got to be endured. If and when his prediction comes true and remember this is the guy that invented the fiscal rules that were supposed to be in place to make it work maybe the pound will start to recover. Until then what cannot be cured must be endured. At least we can stand a devaluation for a time. All these countries can do is issue more junk bonds and hope the suckers in france and Germany buy it up. One day these sovereign nations will decide enough is enough and the Euro will collapse. " The referendum was about membership of the EU, not joining the Euro. If we had been in the Euro then that was a different argument and the vote would have been 90% Leave in all likelihood. It was the fact we had the best of both worlds that made it such a 50/50 vote. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So when I agree with experts I'm an idiot, what about when you agree with experts like NASA? Suddenly you're not an idiot? So can someone please tell me what country that we are not trading with, that we will start trading with once we leave the EU? I am simply asking you to take personal responsibility for your decisions as opposed to relying on unreliable economic bodies. You can rely on the IMF if you wish but they do not have a great track record in predictions. Have we been able to negotiate our own trade deal with Australia? With the USA? No, because our membership of the overriding EU precludes us from doing so. Well I'm asking you to do some due diligence and look at some expert opinions. We already trade with Australia and the US. I asked you to name a country that we are not already trading with, that we will start trading with once we leave. Wrong, the EU does not currently have a trade deal with the USA. Yet we still trade with them. So again, I will ask, which country do we not currently trade with, that you are looking forward to trading with once we leave the EU? Using that logic then we don't need a trade deal with the EU to trade with them either do we. No one, on either side of the argument, has said or is saying that you have to have a trade deal with anyone in order to trade. The argument is surly that having a comprehensive trade agreement with anyone; one that ensures trade is equitable and with a common set of rules with a fair arbitration; increases the amount of trade done between the parties of that agreement. So, the question still remains, who are we going to trade with once we leave the EU who we are not currently trading with now? It's not a question of who, is it? It's a question of how. And you answered it yourself, with a common set of rules and fair arbitration, but why confine that to the EU? It is small minded and outdated" So I'll take that as no one new then. I'm glad we agree that, in order to trade equitably with anyone, there has to be a common set of rules but I don't understand how you envisage those common set of rules being policed without all parties involved agreeing to be bound by whatever arbitration is put in place and, if so, how would this new free trading be significantly different, with the same loss or sharing of sovereignty, as the EU? In which case why are we leaving? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So when I agree with experts I'm an idiot, what about when you agree with experts like NASA? Suddenly you're not an idiot? So can someone please tell me what country that we are not trading with, that we will start trading with once we leave the EU? I am simply asking you to take personal responsibility for your decisions as opposed to relying on unreliable economic bodies. You can rely on the IMF if you wish but they do not have a great track record in predictions. Have we been able to negotiate our own trade deal with Australia? With the USA? No, because our membership of the overriding EU precludes us from doing so. Well I'm asking you to do some due diligence and look at some expert opinions. We already trade with Australia and the US. I asked you to name a country that we are not already trading with, that we will start trading with once we leave. Wrong, the EU does not currently have a trade deal with the USA. Yet we still trade with them. So again, I will ask, which country do we not currently trade with, that you are looking forward to trading with once we leave the EU? Using that logic then we don't need a trade deal with the EU to trade with them either do we. No one, on either side of the argument, has said or is saying that you have to have a trade deal with anyone in order to trade. The argument is surly that having a comprehensive trade agreement with anyone; one that ensures trade is equitable and with a common set of rules with a fair arbitration; increases the amount of trade done between the parties of that agreement. So, the question still remains, who are we going to trade with once we leave the EU who we are not currently trading with now? It's not a question of who, is it? It's a question of how. And you answered it yourself, with a common set of rules and fair arbitration, but why confine that to the EU? It is small minded and outdated So I'll take that as no one new then. I'm glad we agree that, in order to trade equitably with anyone, there has to be a common set of rules but I don't understand how you envisage those common set of rules being policed without all parties involved agreeing to be bound by whatever arbitration is put in place and, if so, how would this new free trading be significantly different, with the same loss or sharing of sovereignty, as the EU? In which case why are we leaving?" why does there have to be a loss or sharing of sovereignty to trade? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"How much have I saved yet ?
Let's stop funding the BBC aswell
And Farmers
Benefit Cheats
Million Pound Fines for High Level Tax Avoidance !
Also to apply to Acountants who aid and abet it !
I'll try and add it up for you later, but I think you still have more to go yet!
Ha ha il keep trying !
Ps I hope you have realised by now I'm neither Right or Left wing !
I agree with both and disagree with both sometimes !
As it should be
Arts Council Grant - £366m
Overseas Aid (Money only) - £964m (Tough one because I think (could be wrong) that you are concerned about money going to governments of other countries, that doesn’t really happen, so I have not included money given to the UN, or other international orgs, or money spent inside the UK, but I have included “project type interventions including multi region /centrally managed programs otherwise we wouldn’t have been to cut anything from the budget)
Scotland - £800m
Defence - £11bn (I have given you a saving of 25% of the existing budget as you said that “hope” to reduce it, but would mainly be repositioning its outlook from expeditionary to purely territorial defence)
Royal Family - £43m
BBC - £3.7bn
Funding for Farmers - 2.4bn
Cant really find a saving for benefits cheats as once they are found to be cheats, they stop getting the benefit and in a lot of cases have to pay it back.
TOTAL SAVING £ 16.8 bn
So you still need to find another £49.2 bn in savings unfortunately
You have forgotten the NET figure of 12 billion we pay to the EU now
AND YOU STILL HAVENT ANSWERED THE QUESTION ABOUT WHICH EXPERT PREDICTIONS EVER CAME TRUE !!!!!!!!!!"Robert Edbert predict "On Demand" streaming back in 1987 Arthur C. Clark predicted tablets and on line newspapers in 1969 Philco-Ford predicted on line shopping and email in 1967 George Osborne predicted that if we voted to leave the EU the the value of £GBP would fall by about 15% George Osborne predicted that if we voted to leave the EU inflation would rise by 2% points. Nicolas Clegg predicted that if we voted to leave the EU it would create a long period of economics and political uncertainty. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So when I agree with experts I'm an idiot, what about when you agree with experts like NASA? Suddenly you're not an idiot? So can someone please tell me what country that we are not trading with, that we will start trading with once we leave the EU? I am simply asking you to take personal responsibility for your decisions as opposed to relying on unreliable economic bodies. You can rely on the IMF if you wish but they do not have a great track record in predictions. Have we been able to negotiate our own trade deal with Australia? With the USA? No, because our membership of the overriding EU precludes us from doing so. Well I'm asking you to do some due diligence and look at some expert opinions. We already trade with Australia and the US. I asked you to name a country that we are not already trading with, that we will start trading with once we leave. Wrong, the EU does not currently have a trade deal with the USA. Yet we still trade with them. So again, I will ask, which country do we not currently trade with, that you are looking forward to trading with once we leave the EU? Using that logic then we don't need a trade deal with the EU to trade with them either do we. No one, on either side of the argument, has said or is saying that you have to have a trade deal with anyone in order to trade. The argument is surly that having a comprehensive trade agreement with anyone; one that ensures trade is equitable and with a common set of rules with a fair arbitration; increases the amount of trade done between the parties of that agreement. So, the question still remains, who are we going to trade with once we leave the EU who we are not currently trading with now? It's not a question of who, is it? It's a question of how. And you answered it yourself, with a common set of rules and fair arbitration, but why confine that to the EU? It is small minded and outdated So I'll take that as no one new then. I'm glad we agree that, in order to trade equitably with anyone, there has to be a common set of rules but I don't understand how you envisage those common set of rules being policed without all parties involved agreeing to be bound by whatever arbitration is put in place and, if so, how would this new free trading be significantly different, with the same loss or sharing of sovereignty, as the EU? In which case why are we leaving? why does there have to be a loss or sharing of sovereignty to trade?" Also why does there have to be free movement of people in order to trade? No other trading block in the world has that stipulation, only the EU. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"How much have I saved yet ?
Let's stop funding the BBC aswell
And Farmers
Benefit Cheats
Million Pound Fines for High Level Tax Avoidance !
Also to apply to Acountants who aid and abet it !
I'll try and add it up for you later, but I think you still have more to go yet!
Ha ha il keep trying !
Ps I hope you have realised by now I'm neither Right or Left wing !
I agree with both and disagree with both sometimes !
As it should be
Arts Council Grant - £366m
Overseas Aid (Money only) - £964m (Tough one because I think (could be wrong) that you are concerned about money going to governments of other countries, that doesn’t really happen, so I have not included money given to the UN, or other international orgs, or money spent inside the UK, but I have included “project type interventions including multi region /centrally managed programs otherwise we wouldn’t have been to cut anything from the budget)
Scotland - £800m
Defence - £11bn (I have given you a saving of 25% of the existing budget as you said that “hope” to reduce it, but would mainly be repositioning its outlook from expeditionary to purely territorial defence)
Royal Family - £43m
BBC - £3.7bn
Funding for Farmers - 2.4bn
Cant really find a saving for benefits cheats as once they are found to be cheats, they stop getting the benefit and in a lot of cases have to pay it back.
TOTAL SAVING £ 16.8 bn
So you still need to find another £49.2 bn in savings unfortunately
"Hmmmm ?  well I never said it would be easy lol
I may have to luck at ways of bringing more income in aswell
Ok here we go ( apologies in advance if I've duplicated some 
No council tax to be spent on theatres or Art Galleries ( the luvies will stump up
Trident ? I would still have a Nuclear ditterent but I'd want to see what other options are available ?
Why go for the dearest when the chances are if we use it we are doomed anyway ? Also I'd want a system devoid of American influence !
Tax ? I've eluded earlier to this , but to make clear , google , face Book ect have to start paying !!!
Huge crackdown on unnecessary admin on health , armed forces , education etc !
I realise these are a bit hard to cost
You are welcome to suggest some lol | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"How much have I saved yet ?
Let's stop funding the BBC aswell
And Farmers
Benefit Cheats
Million Pound Fines for High Level Tax Avoidance !
Also to apply to Acountants who aid and abet it !
I'll try and add it up for you later, but I think you still have more to go yet!
Ha ha il keep trying !
Ps I hope you have realised by now I'm neither Right or Left wing !
I agree with both and disagree with both sometimes !
As it should be
Arts Council Grant - £366m
Overseas Aid (Money only) - £964m (Tough one because I think (could be wrong) that you are concerned about money going to governments of other countries, that doesn’t really happen, so I have not included money given to the UN, or other international orgs, or money spent inside the UK, but I have included “project type interventions including multi region /centrally managed programs otherwise we wouldn’t have been to cut anything from the budget)
Scotland - £800m
Defence - £11bn (I have given you a saving of 25% of the existing budget as you said that “hope” to reduce it, but would mainly be repositioning its outlook from expeditionary to purely territorial defence)
Royal Family - £43m
BBC - £3.7bn
Funding for Farmers - 2.4bn
Cant really find a saving for benefits cheats as once they are found to be cheats, they stop getting the benefit and in a lot of cases have to pay it back.
TOTAL SAVING £ 16.8 bn
So you still need to find another £49.2 bn in savings unfortunately
You have forgotten the NET figure of 12 billion we pay to the EU now
AND YOU STILL HAVENT ANSWERED THE QUESTION ABOUT WHICH EXPERT PREDICTIONS EVER CAME TRUE !!!!!!!!!!
Robert Edbert predict "On Demand" streaming back in 1987
Arthur C. Clark predicted tablets and on line newspapers in 1969
Philco-Ford predicted on line shopping and email in 1967
George Osborne predicted that if we voted to leave the EU the the value of £GBP would fall by about 15%
George Osborne predicted that if we voted to leave the EU inflation would rise by 2% points.
Nicolas Clegg predicted that if we voted to leave the EU it would create a long period of economics and political uncertainty.
"George Osbourne predicted that he would carry on as Chacellor after the public voted remain. Clegg failed to predict that an alliance with the Tories would decimate his party. Mystic Meg predicted that my neighbour's cat would greet me in Swahili and offer to cook me a fried breakfast. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Fuel prices where already coming down as OPEC are reducing output But fuel goes up and down all yhe time Same as food prices up and down all the time All the experts in the world can predict and forecast cut the giblets ftom a chicken and read the signs !!!!! In the end its guesswork I grant you its informed guesswork but thats all it is The exit is going to happen nothing will stop that not you not your experts so stop putting arguements forward that you hope will derail the exit All your well informed intelligent well read arguements are just smoke and mirrors Just my opinion
Agreed shame the same amount of effort is,nt put into supporting THEIR county though.
But we are supporting our own count(r)y. You're the ones who've sold your people out to economic uncertainty and sold your country out to possible breakup and disunity. And all for a bunch of meaningless slogans. How's that putting any effort into supporting your own country. Sounds more like sedition, treachery and a good does of perfidy to me.
Just maybe we thought that the EU was a doomed institution up its own ass, unable to account for its income and expenditure and hell-bent on greater control. That really does not sound like sedition or treachery. Quite the opposite.
We could not reform it so decided it was time to leave it.
You might have thought lots of things, I don't know what you thought or really think now. All I do know is that you seen to be hell bent on creating as much disunity as possible between the UK and the EU and between the nations of the UK and the peoples legally living here in the UK (that's sedition). Many of you have said you know we'll be worse of but "don't give a shit" - acting to make your people and country worse of (that's treachery) and you've lied to your people (£350 million a day) to deceive them into believing what your trying to do is best for them (that's perfidy).
So yes, it really does sound like sedition, treachery and perfidy to me.
Erm, you're confusing me with someone else entirely.
I voted Brexit. I did not swallow all the propaganda.
As for creating disunity with people living in this country, why the fook would you ever assume that was my motive?
I have told you why I decided. Ascribe whatever ulterior motives you want. They don't exist.
Like I said, I don't know what you (2nd person singular) actually think or thought but you (2nd person plural) all seem to me to be acting in a way that is seditious, treacherous and perfidious. I can't ascribe any other motives to it because they simply don't add up in any logical, reasonable, sensible or meaningful way.
I am a first person singular.
On the other hand, I have no idea what you were voting for.
I was voting to keep my country united and prosperous within in the largest, most democratically organised, wealthiest and nearest trading community in the world. I was voting to keep jobs from foreign companies here in the UK, I was voting for British people of all skill levels and abilities to have the right to seek out their future and possibly fortunes, to study, live, work and retire any where in Europe, I wad voting to keep my countries say in what happens in Europe and will affect it, I was voting to keep a strong and united voice by the UK and Europe against the ever growing threat from both the East and the Middle East, I was voting for the good of my country, all the nations that make parts of it and all the peoples who live in it. I wasn't voting for a load of meaningless slogans and jingoistic flag waving.
It sounds very much as if you were voting for jongoistic flag-waving crap. I voted for economic sense. There is no way that the silly philosophy behind the EU can survive.
I decided to get out of it before it collapsed. As opposed to continuing to wave some stupid European unity flag.
I wish to trade with Europe. I don't want to trade only with Europe or be a spoke in their wheel.
You voted because of Economics? Yet you voted against 90% of UK economists, against HM Treasury, against Nobel Prize winning economists, against the World Bank, against the IFS, against the IMF, etc. etc. etc. That makes no sense at all.
Which country does the UK currently NOT trade with, that you are looking forward to trading with in the future?
No, I voted against a corrupt and overruling organisation that took our money, decided how we should spend it and dictated our laws and with whom we could trade.
And I am very tired of appeals to those economic organisations that you perceive to be experts. I chose personal responsibility. You choose "experts." I have expressed where economic experts have gone rather wrong in the past but received no feedback.
I have known a very bright economist who was employed by the Chancellor to provide advice. You know, it did not matter who the Chancellor was, she was asked to give advice supporting the latest political thrust. Paymasters, eh? Your appeals to "recognised" bodies is a bit like saying, "I can't be arsed to work it out myself."
I'm no economic expert but how does voting to make trade harder with our biggest, wealthiest and closets customers in the unsure hope that we might increase our trade with other mostly smaller, poorer and further away customers equate show any level of responsibility, personal or otherwise. You don't have to an economic expert to know that that clearly is more likely to lead to less trade, not more.
Well, with just a little bit of skill, we will still be able to trade with the EU ... and any other country who wants to trade with us. I certainly do not want the EU to dictate who we can and can't reach a deal with, as is currently the case. Madness. I am satisfied that people will still buy our goods so I am not too concerned. Why would anyone stop buying goods just because we have left the EU. We are now in control and can negotiate our own terms. "Actually and unfortunately we won't be in control. Control in trade negotiations nearly always rests with the larger of the economies involved in the negation. So we won't be in control when we negotiate with the EU, USA, China and Japan, they will. We may have more control when it comes to negotiating with Australia, New Zealand, Canada and the like but we'll also have a major handicap as well; they have years of experience negotiating trade deals, we haven't negotiated any in over 40 years. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
