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Hinkley fucking point!
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By *eavenNhellCouple
over a year ago
carrbrook stalybridge |
For the same reason we can't build trains or cars we gave up on them and allowed foreign company's to take them over for big shareholder profits and even bigger dividends .and so those with all the knowledge and expertise are either dead retired or have fucked off abroad to work for said company's |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The last one built went operational in 1995. Do you think all the engineers have sat around for 21 years waiting for the next one to open or maybe they moved on to other things? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"For the same reason we can't build trains or cars we gave up on them and allowed foreign company's to take them over for big shareholder profits and even bigger dividends .and so those with all the knowledge and expertise are either dead retired or have fucked off abroad to work for said company's "
The profits in car manufacturing are pathetic. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Wily can,t we build our own fucking powerstations ffs!"
Why the hell bother with nuclear, when the coast it's being built on has one of the highest tidal ranges in the world. Hydro power - build it between Weston and Cardiff, using Flatholm and Steepholm as links. A massive barrage, reliable power from the tides, a world-class water sports facility upstream, massively improved transport links if a road sits on top of the barrage (maybe a rail-line too), no spent nuclear fuel to have to babysit and dispose of...the benefits are huge, yet it flies well under the radar.
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By *eavenNhellCouple
over a year ago
carrbrook stalybridge |
"Wily can,t we build our own fucking powerstations ffs!
Why the hell bother with nuclear, when the coast it's being built on has one of the highest tidal ranges in the world. Hydro power - build it between Weston and Cardiff, using Flatholm and Steepholm as links. A massive barrage, reliable power from the tides, a world-class water sports facility upstream, massively improved transport links if a road sits on top of the barrage (maybe a rail-line too), no spent nuclear fuel to have to babysit and dispose of...the benefits are huge, yet it flies well under the radar.
"
it flies under the radar because there are no back handers and cushy jobs to be had for ministers and civil servants from the chinese from renewables cmon get with the proggramme |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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There are loads of places in the uk to build hydro power stations the Bristol Chanel has some of the strongest currants going and would not take a great deal of money to build compare to nuclear and no waste to worry about and no contamination.
And unlike the winds and sun the water does not turn off  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"There are loads of places in the uk to build hydro power stations the Bristol Chanel has some of the strongest currants going and would not take a great deal of money to build compare to nuclear and no waste to worry about and no contamination.
And unlike the winds and sun the water does not turn off "
Tidal power technology for large scale electrical production is still in its infancy.
It'll take a whole lot longer for that to come into any useful addition than building a big nasty Nuke station unfortunately. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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We price ourselves out of the market with higher wage demands and all the other "favours" done for us by the trades union movement. British companies cannot compete with the Chinese and other Eastern countries, because they have grown their economies by paying their workers peanuts. Not saying it is right, because it is definitely wrong, but that's life I'm afraid. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"We price ourselves out of the market with higher wage demands and all the other "favours" done for us by the trades union movement. British companies cannot compete with the Chinese and other Eastern countries, because they have grown their economies by paying their workers peanuts. Not saying it is right, because it is definitely wrong, but that's life I'm afraid."
But also because everything is put out to tenders to companies instead of the government and councils employing direct.
The problem is now everything has to be for profit instead of the good of the country.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"We price ourselves out of the market with higher wage demands and all the other "favours" done for us by the trades union movement. British companies cannot compete with the Chinese and other Eastern countries, because they have grown their economies by paying their workers peanuts. Not saying it is right, because it is definitely wrong, but that's life I'm afraid."
At the end of the day, pay is one factor. The bigger factor is productivity. You can pay workers double what other companies pay, if your workers are twice as productive.
The real problem is that productivity in the UK is pretty average, yet people want higher wages. You never hear trade unions talk about productivity, they think it's a dirty word. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"We price ourselves out of the market with higher wage demands and all the other "favours" done for us by the trades union movement. British companies cannot compete with the Chinese and other Eastern countries, because they have grown their economies by paying their workers peanuts. Not saying it is right, because it is definitely wrong, but that's life I'm afraid.
But also because everything is put out to tenders to companies instead of the government and councils employing direct.
The problem is now everything has to be for profit instead of the good of the country.
"
Nothing significant is allowed to be put out to tender without doing a public-private sector comparison which must demonstrate to treasury that significant savings would be achieved by tendering the work with the private sector.
I take it you aren't familiar with the agent-principle problem? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Wily can,t we build our own fucking powerstations ffs!
Because the UK sold the companies ( and the expertise which went with then ) years ago .
Mostly to the Chinese, amongst others.
"
Doesn't that make sense when you look at how many they build and factor in that our last one was finished in 1995? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"We price ourselves out of the market with higher wage demands and all the other "favours" done for us by the trades union movement. British companies cannot compete with the Chinese and other Eastern countries, because they have grown their economies by paying their workers peanuts. Not saying it is right, because it is definitely wrong, but that's life I'm afraid.
But also because everything is put out to tenders to companies instead of the government and councils employing direct.
The problem is now everything has to be for profit instead of the good of the country.
Nothing significant is allowed to be put out to tender without doing a public-private sector comparison which must demonstrate to treasury that significant savings would be achieved by tendering the work with the private sector.
I take it you aren't familiar with the agent-principle problem? "
Savings are at the cost of underpaying thier staff who then have to go to the government to get tax credits to top up thier money.
So the saving to the country is fleeting but the shareholders and owners of these companies make thier money 
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"We price ourselves out of the market with higher wage demands and all the other "favours" done for us by the trades union movement. British companies cannot compete with the Chinese and other Eastern countries, because they have grown their economies by paying their workers peanuts. Not saying it is right, because it is definitely wrong, but that's life I'm afraid.
But also because everything is put out to tenders to companies instead of the government and councils employing direct.
The problem is now everything has to be for profit instead of the good of the country.
Nothing significant is allowed to be put out to tender without doing a public-private sector comparison which must demonstrate to treasury that significant savings would be achieved by tendering the work with the private sector.
I take it you aren't familiar with the agent-principle problem?
Savings are at the cost of underpaying thier staff who then have to go to the government to get tax credits to top up thier money.
So the saving to the country is fleeting but the shareholders and owners of these companies make thier money
"
Is that what Karl Marx told you? |
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"Wily can,t we build our own fucking powerstations ffs!
Because the UK sold the companies ( and the expertise which went with then ) years ago .
Mostly to the Chinese, amongst others.
Doesn't that make sense when you look at how many they build and factor in that our last one was finished in 1995? "
Yep; I am not saying it doesn't;
Just pointing out that there is reality; and if that's the decision made, no point in whining ; just buy what you want, when you need it . I don't have an issue with that;
Though a possible alternative could have been to retain the expertise; build them for other people, then be able to build your own. ( I am not saying that is the " correct" alternative, just an option. But it's a risky one, as then you have to compete for business) |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Wily can,t we build our own fucking powerstations ffs!
Because the UK sold the companies ( and the expertise which went with then ) years ago .
Mostly to the Chinese, amongst others.
Doesn't that make sense when you look at how many they build and factor in that our last one was finished in 1995?
Yep; I am not saying it doesn't;
Just pointing out that there is reality; and if that's the decision made, no point in whining ; just buy what you want, when you need it . I don't have an issue with that;
Though a possible alternative could have been to retain the expertise; build them for other people, then be able to build your own. ( I am not saying that is the " correct" alternative, just an option. But it's a risky one, as then you have to compete for business)"
Well yes, France has a similar size economy to us but retained the skills because they continued to invest in it. Here, it's too much of a political potatoe to get the investment we'd need to be in the same market position as France. |
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"Wily can,t we build our own fucking powerstations ffs!
Because the UK sold the companies ( and the expertise which went with then ) years ago .
Mostly to the Chinese, amongst others.
Doesn't that make sense when you look at how many they build and factor in that our last one was finished in 1995?
Yep; I am not saying it doesn't;
Just pointing out that there is reality; and if that's the decision made, no point in whining ; just buy what you want, when you need it . I don't have an issue with that;
Though a possible alternative could have been to retain the expertise; build them for other people, then be able to build your own. ( I am not saying that is the " correct" alternative, just an option. But it's a risky one, as then you have to compete for business)
Well yes, France has a similar size economy to us but retained the skills because they continued to invest in it. Here, it's too much of a political potatoe to get the investment we'd need to be in the same market position as France. "
It's one of the strengths if France; they are much more strategically minded than UK politicians; make good ( sometimes bad) long term decisions about industries and technologies that they want to keep a handle on; UK is too "short - termist", and makes a quick buck without thinking of the longer game. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Wily can,t we build our own fucking powerstations ffs!
Because the UK sold the companies ( and the expertise which went with then ) years ago .
Mostly to the Chinese, amongst others.
Doesn't that make sense when you look at how many they build and factor in that our last one was finished in 1995?
Yep; I am not saying it doesn't;
Just pointing out that there is reality; and if that's the decision made, no point in whining ; just buy what you want, when you need it . I don't have an issue with that;
Though a possible alternative could have been to retain the expertise; build them for other people, then be able to build your own. ( I am not saying that is the " correct" alternative, just an option. But it's a risky one, as then you have to compete for business)
Well yes, France has a similar size economy to us but retained the skills because they continued to invest in it. Here, it's too much of a political potatoe to get the investment we'd need to be in the same market position as France.
It's one of the strengths if France; they are much more strategically minded than UK politicians; make good ( sometimes bad) long term decisions about industries and technologies that they want to keep a handle on; UK is too "short - termist", and makes a quick buck without thinking of the longer game."
France scores higher than the UK on long term orientation according to research by Hofstede. China scores higher than both. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Well a lot of good replies.. Can see now why it looks as bad as it seems.. Someone at work said other stations of the same desigin abroad are about 10 year over schedule, billions over budget and not one of them running yet.. I suppose may signed the deal off just to avoid pissing off the chineese |
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"Well a lot of good replies.. Can see now why it looks as bad as it seems.. Someone at work said other stations of the same desigin abroad are about 10 year over schedule, billions over budget and not one of them running yet.. I suppose may signed the deal off just to avoid pissing off the chineese "
I thought EDF building it and China putting up the finance either way its going to cost more than the quote they always do. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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From what i understand the French government "EDF" has the lions share of the financing & building of Hinckley with additional investment from the Chinese BUT the Chinese have a far superior record of delivering Nuclear power stations on time AND on budget most unlike the French. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"We price ourselves out of the market with higher wage demands and all the other "favours" done for us by the trades union movement. British companies cannot compete with the Chinese and other Eastern countries, because they have grown their economies by paying their workers peanuts. Not saying it is right, because it is definitely wrong, but that's life I'm afraid.
But also because everything is put out to tenders to companies instead of the government and councils employing direct.
The problem is now everything has to be for profit instead of the good of the country.
Nothing significant is allowed to be put out to tender without doing a public-private sector comparison which must demonstrate to treasury that significant savings would be achieved by tendering the work with the private sector.
I take it you aren't familiar with the agent-principle problem?
Savings are at the cost of underpaying thier staff who then have to go to the government to get tax credits to top up thier money.
So the saving to the country is fleeting but the shareholders and owners of these companies make thier money
Is that what Karl Marx told you? "
Hate to brake it to you but he died |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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As far as I'm aware successive British governments haven't had an energy policy for years, so in my view it's nothing to do with unions or productivity more likely yet another example of how the latest useless govt can wash its hands of responsibility and hand it over to a bunch of...foreigners!?
Maybe we'll hand over Trident to the Chinese as well!? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"We price ourselves out of the market with higher wage demands and all the other "favours" done for us by the trades union movement. British companies cannot compete with the Chinese and other Eastern countries, because they have grown their economies by paying their workers peanuts. Not saying it is right, because it is definitely wrong, but that's life I'm afraid.
But also because everything is put out to tenders to companies instead of the government and councils employing direct.
The problem is now everything has to be for profit instead of the good of the country.
Nothing significant is allowed to be put out to tender without doing a public-private sector comparison which must demonstrate to treasury that significant savings would be achieved by tendering the work with the private sector.
I take it you aren't familiar with the agent-principle problem?
Savings are at the cost of underpaying thier staff who then have to go to the government to get tax credits to top up thier money.
So the saving to the country is fleeting but the shareholders and owners of these companies make thier money
Is that what Karl Marx told you?
Hate to brake it to you but he died "
But his message lives on... apparently |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The government and French energy giant EDF have signed the key contract for the new £18bn Hinkley Point C nuclear power station
all done and dusted today |
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"There are loads of places in the uk to build hydro power stations the Bristol Chanel has some of the strongest currants going and would not take a great deal of money to build compare to nuclear and no waste to worry about and no contamination.
And unlike the winds and sun the water does not turn off "
I would love to see tidal power but unfortunately in most places it just isn't feasible.
Tidal barrages in estuary's are are great idea but only in theory. The reality is that you build a barrage then you restrict the water flow which in turn raises the water table which in turn ultimately leads to flooding.
Many years ago it was suggested that a barrage should be built on the river Wyre just upstream from Fleetwood. The then Labour controlled Lancashire County Council led by (now MP) Louise Ellman spend a bloody fortune on feasibility studies only to find out what any farmer in the area could have told them for nothing. It wouldn't work and would lead to flooding.
Half a million quids worth of taxpayers money later, the scheme was quietly dropped. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Hinkley will be around about a 3000 mw station.
Tidal generators are already built all over the world, currently i think there around 250mw
The Chinese have two hydro dams producing about 20,000 MW each.
The Dutch are working on small scale seawater electricity production, the French have built already a 200mw tidal generator the Germans produce about 25% of they're electric from pv arrays and there one of the cloudiest country's in Europe the Chinese have an entire city that runs on pv arrays.
And then there's hinkley c which was due to come online in 2023 but even edf have said there's no fucking chance, it's probably more like 2030 and it will produce the world's most expensive nuclear electricity and on top of that there's the hidden decommissioning costs because they never tell you that because quite frankly they don't really know how costly it will be but they know it's going to be big very very big  .
.
.
Anyhow hinkley why the fuck would we want to build it is my question let alone let somebody else build it!.... Because when they go wrong and they do occasionally for many unforeseen reasons the cost gets even bigger |
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The problem in UK is that it's very difficult to produce power;
UK has not got the geography to build large hydo- electric ( few mountains and valleys suitable )
DESAUTEL bring an island, dies not hav enough places where tidal schemes or river / estuary schemes are practical;
Solar is not vastly efficient in UK, wind is erratic;
Fossil fuel is a non starter ( even though there are thousands of years' worth of coal underground;
Fracking for gas is a non-starter, unfortunately;
So it's stuck with buying gas from Russia, electricity from Europe, or nuclear .
If you lookup the real time national ( and European) electricity supply and transfer sites; you can see that UK is a net importer of electricity; there is seldom a time when UK is not importing power .
Successive governments have been shortsighted in getting to the point where UK cannot be self sufficient for power. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The problem in UK is that it's very difficult to produce power;
UK has not got the geography to build large hydo- electric ( few mountains and valleys suitable )
DESAUTEL bring an island, dies not hav enough places where tidal schemes or river / estuary schemes are practical;
Solar is not vastly efficient in UK, wind is erratic;
Fossil fuel is a non starter ( even though there are thousands of years' worth of coal underground;
Fracking for gas is a non-starter, unfortunately;
So it's stuck with buying gas from Russia, electricity from Europe, or nuclear .
If you lookup the real time national ( and European) electricity supply and transfer sites; you can see that UK is a net importer of electricity; there is seldom a time when UK is not importing power .
Successive governments have been shortsighted in getting to the point where UK cannot be self sufficient for power. "
Why is fracking a non-starter? (Genuine question) |
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"The problem in UK is that it's very difficult to produce power;
UK has not got the geography to build large hydo- electric ( few mountains and valleys suitable )
DESAUTEL bring an island, dies not hav enough places where tidal schemes or river / estuary schemes are practical;
Solar is not vastly efficient in UK, wind is erratic;
Fossil fuel is a non starter ( even though there are thousands of years' worth of coal underground;
Fracking for gas is a non-starter, unfortunately;
So it's stuck with buying gas from Russia, electricity from Europe, or nuclear .
If you lookup the real time national ( and European) electricity supply and transfer sites; you can see that UK is a net importer of electricity; there is seldom a time when UK is not importing power .
Successive governments have been shortsighted in getting to the point where UK cannot be self sufficient for power.
Why is fracking a non-starter? (Genuine question)"
Fracking is a no brainer; it would provide energy for years;
But the tree huggers have the government by the bollocks, as do the nimbys;
So unfortunately it won't happen.
If fracking was to start properly then it could solve energy issues for some considerable time.
It's really simple to do and quick; gas could be coming out of the ground within months |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The problem in UK is that it's very difficult to produce power;
UK has not got the geography to build large hydo- electric ( few mountains and valleys suitable )
DESAUTEL bring an island, dies not hav enough places where tidal schemes or river / estuary schemes are practical;
Solar is not vastly efficient in UK, wind is erratic;
Fossil fuel is a non starter ( even though there are thousands of years' worth of coal underground;
Fracking for gas is a non-starter, unfortunately;
So it's stuck with buying gas from Russia, electricity from Europe, or nuclear .
If you lookup the real time national ( and European) electricity supply and transfer sites; you can see that UK is a net importer of electricity; there is seldom a time when UK is not importing power .
Successive governments have been shortsighted in getting to the point where UK cannot be self sufficient for power.
Why is fracking a non-starter? (Genuine question)
Fracking is a no brainer; it would provide energy for years;
But the tree huggers have the government by the bollocks, as do the nimbys;
So unfortunately it won't happen.
If fracking was to start properly then it could solve energy issues for some considerable time.
It's really simple to do and quick; gas could be coming out of the ground within months "
You don't believe common sense will prevail? |
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"The problem in UK is that it's very difficult to produce power;
UK has not got the geography to build large hydo- electric ( few mountains and valleys suitable )
DESAUTEL bring an island, dies not hav enough places where tidal schemes or river / estuary schemes are practical;
Solar is not vastly efficient in UK, wind is erratic;
Fossil fuel is a non starter ( even though there are thousands of years' worth of coal underground;
Fracking for gas is a non-starter, unfortunately;
So it's stuck with buying gas from Russia, electricity from Europe, or nuclear .
If you lookup the real time national ( and European) electricity supply and transfer sites; you can see that UK is a net importer of electricity; there is seldom a time when UK is not importing power .
Successive governments have been shortsighted in getting to the point where UK cannot be self sufficient for power.
Why is fracking a non-starter? (Genuine question)
Fracking is a no brainer; it would provide energy for years;
But the tree huggers have the government by the bollocks, as do the nimbys;
So unfortunately it won't happen.
If fracking was to start properly then it could solve energy issues for some considerable time.
It's really simple to do and quick; gas could be coming out of the ground within months
You don't believe common sense will prevail? "
No; common sense is a rare commodity nowadays.
When was the last time there was any common sense in the UK ? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The problem in UK is that it's very difficult to produce power;
UK has not got the geography to build large hydo- electric ( few mountains and valleys suitable )
DESAUTEL bring an island, dies not hav enough places where tidal schemes or river / estuary schemes are practical;
Solar is not vastly efficient in UK, wind is erratic;
Fossil fuel is a non starter ( even though there are thousands of years' worth of coal underground;
Fracking for gas is a non-starter, unfortunately;
So it's stuck with buying gas from Russia, electricity from Europe, or nuclear .
If you lookup the real time national ( and European) electricity supply and transfer sites; you can see that UK is a net importer of electricity; there is seldom a time when UK is not importing power .
Successive governments have been shortsighted in getting to the point where UK cannot be self sufficient for power.
Why is fracking a non-starter? (Genuine question)
Fracking is a no brainer; it would provide energy for years;
But the tree huggers have the government by the bollocks, as do the nimbys;
So unfortunately it won't happen.
If fracking was to start properly then it could solve energy issues for some considerable time.
It's really simple to do and quick; gas could be coming out of the ground within months
You don't believe common sense will prevail?
No; common sense is a rare commodity nowadays.
When was the last time there was any common sense in the UK ?"
It happens, we might have a difference of opinion about when. But for me;
Scottish referendum,
AV referendum,
Personally I've been broadly happy with the result of every single referendum since 1997... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The problem in UK is that it's very difficult to produce power;
UK has not got the geography to build large hydo- electric ( few mountains and valleys suitable )
DESAUTEL bring an island, dies not hav enough places where tidal schemes or river / estuary schemes are practical;
Solar is not vastly efficient in UK, wind is erratic;
Fossil fuel is a non starter ( even though there are thousands of years' worth of coal underground;
Fracking for gas is a non-starter, unfortunately;
So it's stuck with buying gas from Russia, electricity from Europe, or nuclear .
If you lookup the real time national ( and European) electricity supply and transfer sites; you can see that UK is a net importer of electricity; there is seldom a time when UK is not importing power .
Successive governments have been shortsighted in getting to the point where UK cannot be self sufficient for power.
Why is fracking a non-starter? (Genuine question)
Fracking is a no brainer; it would provide energy for years;
But the tree huggers have the government by the bollocks, as do the nimbys;
So unfortunately it won't happen.
If fracking was to start properly then it could solve energy issues for some considerable time.
It's really simple to do and quick; gas could be coming out of the ground within months "
.
Remind me again.... What's your beloved Frances stance on fracking? |
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"For the same reason we can't build trains or cars we gave up on them and allowed foreign company's to take them over for big shareholder profits and even bigger dividends .and so those with all the knowledge and expertise are either dead retired or have fucked off abroad to work for said company's "
heavenNhell
you've hit the nail on the head
massive amounts of greed and under funding, meanwhile all the expertise are either dead retired or moved on
 |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"For the same reason we can't build trains or cars we gave up on them and allowed foreign company's to take them over for big shareholder profits and even bigger dividends .and so those with all the knowledge and expertise are either dead retired or have fucked off abroad to work for said company's
heavenNhell
you've hit the nail on the head
massive amounts of greed and under funding, meanwhile all the expertise are either dead retired or moved on
"
90% of the time the word 'greed' is used, it's an attempt to hide the fact that person using it doesn't understand economics.
They haven't hit the nail on the head at all because there aren't 'big profits' in car manufacturing or trains for that matter.
For the economically challenged, here are examples of industries that do make 'big profits':
Semiconductors, mining, financial services, pharmaceuticals, oilfield services, computer software.
The more astute amongst you will notice they all have a few things in common... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Hinkley will be around about a 3000 mw station.
Tidal generators are already built all over the world, currently i think there around 250mw
The Chinese have two hydro dams producing about 20,000 MW each.
The Dutch are working on small scale seawater electricity production, the French have built already a 200mw tidal generator the Germans produce about 25% of they're electric from pv arrays and there one of the cloudiest country's in Europe the Chinese have an entire city that runs on pv arrays.
And then there's hinkley c which was due to come online in 2023 but even edf have said there's no fucking chance, it's probably more like 2030 and it will produce the world's most expensive nuclear electricity and on top of that there's the hidden decommissioning costs because they never tell you that because quite frankly they don't really know how costly it will be but they know it's going to be big very very big .
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Anyhow hinkley why the fuck would we want to build it is my question let alone let somebody else build it!.... Because when they go wrong and they do occasionally for many unforeseen reasons the cost gets even bigger"
and when it does go wrong who's bloody island is it sat on |
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"The problem in UK is that it's very difficult to produce power;
UK has not got the geography to build large hydo- electric ( few mountains and valleys suitable )
DESAUTEL bring an island, dies not hav enough places where tidal schemes or river / estuary schemes are practical;
Solar is not vastly efficient in UK, wind is erratic;
Fossil fuel is a non starter ( even though there are thousands of years' worth of coal underground;
Fracking for gas is a non-starter, unfortunately;
So it's stuck with buying gas from Russia, electricity from Europe, or nuclear .
If you lookup the real time national ( and European) electricity supply and transfer sites; you can see that UK is a net importer of electricity; there is seldom a time when UK is not importing power .
Successive governments have been shortsighted in getting to the point where UK cannot be self sufficient for power.
Why is fracking a non-starter? (Genuine question)
Fracking is a no brainer; it would provide energy for years;
But the tree huggers have the government by the bollocks, as do the nimbys;
So unfortunately it won't happen.
If fracking was to start properly then it could solve energy issues for some considerable time.
It's really simple to do and quick; gas could be coming out of the ground within months .
Remind me again.... What's your beloved Frances stance on fracking?"
Currently France is " no fracking";
But France doesn't need fracking; so it's easy;
France has a constant surplus of electricity; due to long term planning; so exports permanently to Italy, to Belgium 50% of the time, to Germany 10% of the time, to UK 40-60 % of the time .
France uses gas turbine power as an emergency backup; so has little use for gas
UK generates on average 50% of its power from gas turbines; do desperately needs gas supply - the majority of which it imports. And it desperately needs Nuclear, which is needed to support the base load ; but since successive UK governments have ignored the " Nuclear issue", current stations will go out if service before replacements are built; meaning that over the next 5-10 years; UK dependence on ( imported) gas will increase by approximately 50%, and imported electricity by about 40/50%
UK government hates having its vulnerability in terms of power exposed; they like to keep it quiet .
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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There's pretty simple reasons for all of that, the UK found gas fields out at sea where as France didn't so it built 50 nuclear reactors instead..... Were getting close to the point where there going to have to start dismantling and replacing some or at least closing them down as like you say they actually overproduce.
Getting back to fracking in France, the French government had a moratorium on it and that was on they're own state run oil company, they said if you can prove it safe in a court you can frack all day long, in about 19 attempts in court they failed to prove it safe!.
Of course that's not stopped the French owned company fracking here and to be honest about it, you can apply stringent regulations making it "reasonably safe" .... However every fracking company would be self regulating, I think we all know how self regulating goes after the banking crises |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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".
France uses gas turbine power as an emergency backup; so has little use for gas
UK generates on average 50% of its power from gas turbines; do desperately needs gas supply -
"
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Again another misleading statement, if you look at natural gas usage by country you'll see the UK is number 8 using 68 million m3
France is number 22 using 39 million m3..... That's hardly what your implying is it |
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".
France uses gas turbine power as an emergency backup; so has little use for gas
UK generates on average 50% of its power from gas turbines; do desperately needs gas supply -
.
Again another misleading statement, if you look at natural gas usage by country you'll see the UK is number 8 using 68 million m3
France is number 22 using 39 million m3..... That's hardly what your implying is it"
Yessir is; look up the annual usage figures; it uses it as emergency load in the winter when necessary to top up the base load, when surge is needed |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The problem in UK is that it's very difficult to produce power;
UK has not got the geography to build large hydo- electric ( few mountains and valleys suitable )
DESAUTEL bring an island, dies not hav enough places where tidal schemes or river / estuary schemes are practical;
Solar is not vastly efficient in UK, wind is erratic;
Fossil fuel is a non starter ( even though there are thousands of years' worth of coal underground;
Fracking for gas is a non-starter, unfortunately;
So it's stuck with buying gas from Russia, electricity from Europe, or nuclear .
If you lookup the real time national ( and European) electricity supply and transfer sites; you can see that UK is a net importer of electricity; there is seldom a time when UK is not importing power .
Successive governments have been shortsighted in getting to the point where UK cannot be self sufficient for power.
Why is fracking a non-starter? (Genuine question)
Fracking is a no brainer; it would provide energy for years;
But the tree huggers have the government by the bollocks, as do the nimbys;
So unfortunately it won't happen.
If fracking was to start properly then it could solve energy issues for some considerable time.
It's really simple to do and quick; gas could be coming out of the ground within months
You don't believe common sense will prevail?
No; common sense is a rare commodity nowadays.
When was the last time there was any common sense in the UK ?"
what water source will be used for this fracking?
will it be pot water? treated sea water? and what source?
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within months of this gas coming out of the ground, where will it go? will pipelines be run (will this be long term) what about line pigging? will this gas contain light ends? heavy ends? will there be mercury? H2S?
Will there be a need for flaring and if so acid rain and atmospheric pollutants
Don't get me wrong, I am all for Fracking, same as I am all for oil & gas offshore (its my job).
It is very easy to frack a few exploration wells, but when it comes to long time production, that is a different thing altogether. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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".
France uses gas turbine power as an emergency backup; so has little use for gas
UK generates on average 50% of its power from gas turbines; do desperately needs gas supply -
.
Again another misleading statement, if you look at natural gas usage by country you'll see the UK is number 8 using 68 million m3
France is number 22 using 39 million m3..... That's hardly what your implying is it"
Is that French 39 million m3 figure overall natural gas usage or just in the generation of electricity ?
The UK in general "gas prices permitting" generates around 50% of electric through Combined Cycle Gas Turbines keeping Coal down the pecking order for generation but all it takes is a Gas hike andCoal has to take up the slack big time. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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".
France uses gas turbine power as an emergency backup; so has little use for gas
UK generates on average 50% of its power from gas turbines; do desperately needs gas supply -
.
Again another misleading statement, if you look at natural gas usage by country you'll see the UK is number 8 using 68 million m3
France is number 22 using 39 million m3..... That's hardly what your implying is it
Is that French 39 million m3 figure overall natural gas usage or just in the generation of electricity ?
The UK in general "gas prices permitting" generates around 50% of electric through Combined Cycle Gas Turbines keeping Coal down the pecking order for generation but all it takes is a Gas hike andCoal has to take up the slack big time."
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Overall usage.
That's my point, you can't say the French "don't need gas" when in fact they use 39 million m3.
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The point of renewables is getting away from mass carbon emissions, you know something the world singed upto at Paris, we've got to cut c02 emissions by about 80% in 16 years to achieve it!!!.
Now going down the fracking route is utterly pointless if you want to achieve it, it's like going on a diet to avoid diabetes and saying I'll only eat natural sugary foods and won't add any... You can do it, but it won't help your diabetes.
Coal is another fossil fuel we could dig up for hundreds of years and have reliable energy from.... Err except we won't have a planet left to habitate?.... Nuclear is yet another 80 year old technology were hanging onto, the one thing humans excel at other than fucking the planet up is ingenuity, all you have to do is set the free market free.
And honestly if you wanna know how bad fossil fuels can be just take a good look at China as they've made they're air unbreathable in about 30 years and they know it, there ploughing into renewables faster bigger and harder than any country in the world.... That alone should tell you something |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"how many m3 of gas does it take to run a 25mw gas turbine for 24 hours (one day)"
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30,000 BTUs roughly in a m3 of natural gas.
1000 w equals about 4000 BTUs so that's about 7000w an hour plus losses..
Err a shit load  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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okay
not really the way we take our readings for midnight stocks offshore, we record all gas usage, was just interested in comparison, but you must use different figures |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"okay
not really the way we take our readings for midnight stocks offshore, we record all gas usage, was just interested in comparison, but you must use different figures"
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I've not idea I was elaborating a guess on a few things I know!
I guess we were all waiting for you to tell us
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over a year ago
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Fears have been raised that two of the UK's nuclear reactors might not be able to shut down in an emergency.
Documents show the nuclear regulator raised concerns over fractures in the keyways that lock together the core of Hunterston B power station in Ayrshire.
They also show the Office for Nuclear Regulation (ONR) is also concerned that Hinkley B in Somerset might have similar problems
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The ONR has since agreed the stations can continue operating safely after modifying the reactor shutdown process to include introducing super-articulated control rods that can more easily bend down any distorted channels.
But John Large, who helped design AGRs, believes that if the cracks get any worse it could jeopardise the reactor's stability in the event of a big disaster such as an earthquake, and make it impossible to lower control rods to shut the reactor down.
"These keyways are beginning to fracture... that means the locking together, the way that force can can be transferred from one brick to another is lost, so it becomes a very loose stack of bricks."
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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That's what happens when you run things twenty years past there use by date.... You get unforseen problems!... If you left engineers designers and regulators to it there really shouldn't be a problem, unfortunately the pressure from the people about aka governments means they will bend what they thought safe parameters were to suit the political will |
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