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Europe a postmodern empire
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"No and it'll be lucky to survive in 15 years let alone become what America is. For the record, I think it was a good idea, badly executed and should never have started that fucking currency - which was doomed from the get go. " I have to agree. An idea to bring together a few nations in Europe by trade and friendship and avoid another War was both right and well done. It evolved into the EEC of 8 Nations and then 11 including the UK. Note it was a trading relationship of very similar nations. people forget that 'Freedom of Movement' was written into the original Treaty of Rome but the movement of people was very small given the similarities of those countries involved. Where it went very badly wrong was the idea of the Euro, the creation of the political EU itself and where all the other powers shifted invisibly to Brussels. No one has ever explained why a group of nations need to share a currency, flag, anthem, Parliament and Police force to sell goods to each other....  | |||
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"Like every country, every economy and everything - the EU will evolve over time. It is different today to what was envisaged 20 years ago and it will be different in 20 years from today. The U.K. could and should have been at the heart of an evolving EU but..... " Exactly; the EU needs to exist to balance against the other great trading nations and blocs. The UK was, sadly , utterly pathetic, instead of playing a vital and leading role, it stood around the edges, whining and moaning, and never playing a full part. The UK actually damaged the EU. Now it's going to "leave", and exclude itself, and........ stand around whining and moaning, and still blaming the EU for all its self inflicted woes. We are far better off without the UK, frankly. | |||
"No and it'll be lucky to survive in 15 years let alone become what America is. For the record, I think it was a good idea, badly executed and should never have started that fucking currency - which was doomed from the get go. I have to agree. An idea to bring together a few nations in Europe by trade and friendship and avoid another War was both right and well done. It evolved into the EEC of 8 Nations and then 11 including the UK. Note it was a trading relationship of very similar nations. people forget that 'Freedom of Movement' was written into the original Treaty of Rome but the movement of people was very small given the similarities of those countries involved. Where it went very badly wrong was the idea of the Euro, the creation of the political EU itself and where all the other powers shifted invisibly to Brussels. No one has ever explained why a group of nations need to share a currency, flag, anthem, Parliament and Police force to sell goods to each other.... "The idea of having a currency without the ability to set the interest rate or money supply is just plain stupidity of type only politicians could commit. ~25% of people ever gave a big enough shit to even vote for their EU MP and even less could name the winner of said election. I doubt the EU will ever be remembered for much more than its regulations on bananas | |||
"Like every country, every economy and everything - the EU will evolve over time. It is different today to what was envisaged 20 years ago and it will be different in 20 years from today. The U.K. could and should have been at the heart of an evolving EU but..... Exactly; the EU needs to exist to balance against the other great trading nations and blocs. The UK was, sadly , utterly pathetic, instead of playing a vital and leading role, it stood around the edges, whining and moaning, and never playing a full part. The UK actually damaged the EU. Now it's going to "leave", and exclude itself, and........ stand around whining and moaning, and still blaming the EU for all its self inflicted woes. We are far better off without the UK, frankly. " With respect, the EU was utterly pathetic at improving living standards for its citizens in the 8 years leading up to the vote. I voted remain BTW. | |||
"Tonight I read an interesting article and saw a chanel 4 news about an EU funded police/millitary operation in 2014 in the Albanian village of Lazarat where the village had turned the entire hillside in to a large industrial cannabis farm, they were $6bil in cannabis just inside their gardens alone per household. They were making so much money they even fortified their village with prepared concreate defences, tunnel network and mortors & other artillery, and hired and equip men to man them. The interesting point made by peatwr hitchins of the mail was: "One of the things it surely means is that some people, at least, will begin to realise that the EU is a post-modern empire without an emperor, not a collaboration of equal nations for a bit of free trade. And that it is territorially ambitious." So my question is EU a post modern-empire, trading states, a hegemony like the ancient Greek city-state leauges or will it become united states of Europe just like how the modern day USA came about." Can you link to where the EU actually takes physical action? All I can find is where Albanian police have repeatedly raided and torched cannabis. On another point, if the EU sent member state forces in to conduct a raid, it will have been done with permission from Albania. Lets face it, you are not going to get armed forces/police through a checkpoint without permission. And heck, if I was an Albanian politician and the EU said, "We want to get rid of the cannabis farms in that village." I'd be all for a helping hand to be quite blunt. | |||
"Like every country, every economy and everything - the EU will evolve over time. It is different today to what was envisaged 20 years ago and it will be different in 20 years from today. The U.K. could and should have been at the heart of an evolving EU but..... " The EEC 'Evolved' into something the people of the UK never voted for or ever wanted. It therefore never ever had any legitimacy here in the UK. Had John Major, Tony Blair and Gordon Brown had the balls to call a Referendum over Maastricht and Lisbon on how a well accepted 'EEC' was being deliberately 'evolved' into the 'EU' before our very eyes then we would, as I suspect, never have gone along with it or we would have been far more supportive. The 'evolvement' of the EU is the very problem not any solution. It came into being without us being told when we signed up to the EEC, without our permission and what the ultimate intentions were. The 'EU' was established on the very grounds it carried on and grew bigger and bigger: Lies, Deceit and Political Ambitions. And forgive me for mentioning this but the UK WAS at the very heart of the EU. It was one of the first 8 members, it was the second largest contributor and it was the second largest economy. And yet for all that when we expressed the need for 'reform' what did we get? A slap in the face and a middle finger. You need to understand that to the EU 'reform' means more centralised power, more control by the unelected elite, more regulation and more appendages of some 'superstate'. And of course less sovereignty for member states. To the people of the UK 'reform' means the complete opposite. | |||
"Like every country, every economy and everything - the EU will evolve over time. It is different today to what was envisaged 20 years ago and it will be different in 20 years from today. The U.K. could and should have been at the heart of an evolving EU but..... Exactly; the EU needs to exist to balance against the other great trading nations and blocs. The UK was, sadly , utterly pathetic, instead of playing a vital and leading role, it stood around the edges, whining and moaning, and never playing a full part. The UK actually damaged the EU. Now it's going to "leave", and exclude itself, and........ stand around whining and moaning, and still blaming the EU for all its self inflicted woes. We are far better off without the UK, frankly. " Well Goodbye my friend and I wish you inside your wonderful EU the very best of luck. You will need it.  | |||
" Well Goodbye my friend and I wish you inside your wonderful EU the very best of luck. You will need it. "I am delighted to live in a stable society, with good standard of living, exceptional health services that the UK could only dream of, thriving industry, global financial clout, A strong and progressive science and engineering foundation, and wonderful art and culture, that is highly valued. It will be slightly sad to watch the demise of the UK; I still retain some fondness for it, despite what it has become. | |||
"Like every country, every economy and everything - the EU will evolve over time. It is different today to what was envisaged 20 years ago and it will be different in 20 years from today. The U.K. could and should have been at the heart of an evolving EU but..... Exactly; the EU needs to exist to balance against the other great trading nations and blocs. The UK was, sadly , utterly pathetic, instead of playing a vital and leading role, it stood around the edges, whining and moaning, and never playing a full part. The UK actually damaged the EU. Now it's going to "leave", and exclude itself, and........ stand around whining and moaning, and still blaming the EU for all its self inflicted woes. We are far better off without the UK, frankly. " The common market.....which we joined in 72/3 and ratified through referendum was a good idea. It was the "trading block " that you espouse so eloquently. What it wasn't....and should never have become is a beurocratic, dictatorial, corrupt, failing and undemocratic superstate......that is what it has evolved into....mostly by backdoor, dodgy deals and by "treaties" which we had no say on. The worst of which was the Treaty of Lisbon, which Gordon Brown promised not to sign without a referendum....but he did it anyway. That was the reason why Cameron promised us the referendum we had. Cameron may be viewed to have got it wrong, and not to have planned for both possible results....but at least he kept his promise to hold a referendum! | |||
" What it wasn't....and should never have become is a beurocratic, dictatorial, corrupt, failing and undemocratic superstate......that is what it has evolved into....mostly by backdoor, dodgy deals and by "treaties" which we had no say on. " And it isn't; Burocratic; yes: all large organizations are; Dictatorial ; no; nothing can be done without the agreement if the elected representatives of member nations agreeing Corrupt; no more than any other large organization; and probably less so; It is not un democratic; the elected representatives of the member states drive it, as does the Elected European Parliament, and nothing the EU wants, can be done in individual nations until that nation's parliament agrees it. The treaties are perfectly legitimate; and each nation is free to sign or not..... The EU as a whole, is markedly more democratic than the UK, for sure, | |||
" The EU as a whole, is markedly more democratic than the UK, for sure," 
You owe me a coffee. I just spat it over my keyboard ....  | |||
" The EU as a whole, is markedly more democratic than the UK, for sure,
You owe me a coffee. I just spat it over my keyboard .... "UK; head of state by heredity? The Orime Minister and ministers are appointed by the unelected head of state? First past the post elections, so those who voted are not represented? EU; EU presudents of the Council ; rotational in turn, being the elected head of state of the member nations; President of the European Parliament : elected by the ( elected) MEPs President of the European Commission; Elected by the ( elected) members of the European Council. Proportional Representation for MEPs,so more chance of being represented by someone you voted for. Unlike UK, laws cannot be enacted without voting, whereas in UK , numerous laws can be enacted by parliamentary prerogative, without recourse to a vote..... Etc etc. the list is endless. UK doesn't even have a written constitution, it's just evolved by custom and practice, and can, in effect, be ignored at will. It has only worked ( in the past) because politicians sort of accepted it by consensus .... You could start a complete totalitarian state in UK if you had the will, without any recourse to democracy, or reference to the " constitution" . In fact it wouldn't breach any " constitutional laws". In fact, the government is currently bypassing the " constitutional practice" of UK, by not invoking parliamentary process in lawmaking. | |||
" Well Goodbye my friend and I wish you inside your wonderful EU the very best of luck. You will need it.
I am delighted to live in a stable society, with good standard of living, exceptional health services that the UK could only dream of, thriving industry, global financial clout,
A strong and progressive science and engineering foundation, and wonderful art and culture, that is highly valued.
It will be slightly sad to watch the demise of the UK; I still retain some fondness for it, despite what it has become.
". I take it your not in Albania then  .
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"No and it'll be lucky to survive in 15 years let alone become what America is. For the record, I think it was a good idea, badly executed and should never have started that fucking currency - which was doomed from the get go. I have to agree. An idea to bring together a few nations in Europe by trade and friendship and avoid another War was both right and well done. It evolved into the EEC of 8 Nations and then 11 including the UK. Note it was a trading relationship of very similar nations. people forget that 'Freedom of Movement' was written into the original Treaty of Rome but the movement of people was very small given the similarities of those countries involved. Where it went very badly wrong was the idea of the Euro, the creation of the political EU itself and where all the other powers shifted invisibly to Brussels. No one has ever explained why a group of nations need to share a currency, flag, anthem, Parliament and Police force to sell goods to each other.... "Each country has its own flag, it's own police forces, its own parliaments, and many have their own currency. What you don't understand is that some people actually want to work together. | |||
"No and it'll be lucky to survive in 15 years let alone become what America is. For the record, I think it was a good idea, badly executed and should never have started that fucking currency - which was doomed from the get go. I have to agree. An idea to bring together a few nations in Europe by trade and friendship and avoid another War was both right and well done. It evolved into the EEC of 8 Nations and then 11 including the UK. Note it was a trading relationship of very similar nations. people forget that 'Freedom of Movement' was written into the original Treaty of Rome but the movement of people was very small given the similarities of those countries involved. Where it went very badly wrong was the idea of the Euro, the creation of the political EU itself and where all the other powers shifted invisibly to Brussels. No one has ever explained why a group of nations need to share a currency, flag, anthem, Parliament and Police force to sell goods to each other....
Each country has its own flag, it's own police forces, its own parliaments, and many have their own currency.
What you don't understand is that some people actually want to work together. "Forgive my ignorance on this but I didn't know the EU was a sovereign country until you just informed me. So when was this sovereign country created, where is it located, what is its capital city and what are its borders? Do BA, Ryannair, Easyjet or Virgin fly there? Not that I feel any wish to go there... | |||
"No and it'll be lucky to survive in 15 years let alone become what America is. For the record, I think it was a good idea, badly executed and should never have started that fucking currency - which was doomed from the get go. I have to agree. An idea to bring together a few nations in Europe by trade and friendship and avoid another War was both right and well done. It evolved into the EEC of 8 Nations and then 11 including the UK. Note it was a trading relationship of very similar nations. people forget that 'Freedom of Movement' was written into the original Treaty of Rome but the movement of people was very small given the similarities of those countries involved. Where it went very badly wrong was the idea of the Euro, the creation of the political EU itself and where all the other powers shifted invisibly to Brussels. No one has ever explained why a group of nations need to share a currency, flag, anthem, Parliament and Police force to sell goods to each other....
Each country has its own flag, it's own police forces, its own parliaments, and many have their own currency.
What you don't understand is that some people actually want to work together. "What you don't understand is that we will still work together. Can we not work with countries which are not a part of the EU? | |||
"No and it'll be lucky to survive in 15 years let alone become what America is. For the record, I think it was a good idea, badly executed and should never have started that fucking currency - which was doomed from the get go. I have to agree. An idea to bring together a few nations in Europe by trade and friendship and avoid another War was both right and well done. It evolved into the EEC of 8 Nations and then 11 including the UK. Note it was a trading relationship of very similar nations. people forget that 'Freedom of Movement' was written into the original Treaty of Rome but the movement of people was very small given the similarities of those countries involved. Where it went very badly wrong was the idea of the Euro, the creation of the political EU itself and where all the other powers shifted invisibly to Brussels. No one has ever explained why a group of nations need to share a currency, flag, anthem, Parliament and Police force to sell goods to each other....
Each country has its own flag, it's own police forces, its own parliaments, and many have their own currency.
What you don't understand is that some people actually want to work together.
What you don't understand is that we will still work together.
Can we not work with countries which are not a part of the EU?"Exactly, America is not part of the EU, but it still works with the EU. Britain can do the same, from outside of the EU and we no longer have to put up with or deal with all the shit that comes with being a payed up, signed up, member of the EU club. | |||
"No and it'll be lucky to survive in 15 years let alone become what America is. For the record, I think it was a good idea, badly executed and should never have started that fucking currency - which was doomed from the get go. I have to agree. An idea to bring together a few nations in Europe by trade and friendship and avoid another War was both right and well done. It evolved into the EEC of 8 Nations and then 11 including the UK. Note it was a trading relationship of very similar nations. people forget that 'Freedom of Movement' was written into the original Treaty of Rome but the movement of people was very small given the similarities of those countries involved. Where it went very badly wrong was the idea of the Euro, the creation of the political EU itself and where all the other powers shifted invisibly to Brussels. No one has ever explained why a group of nations need to share a currency, flag, anthem, Parliament and Police force to sell goods to each other....
Each country has its own flag, it's own police forces, its own parliaments, and many have their own currency.
What you don't understand is that some people actually want to work together.
What you don't understand is that we will still work together.
Can we not work with countries which are not a part of the EU?"You don't want to work together, correct me if I'm wrong, but you want to stop people coming here, you want to stop British people being able to work there, you want to stop the harmonisation of standards and regulation that make trade easier, you want to stop free trade, you want to stop collaboration on issues such as the European arrest warrant and data protection, collaboration on scientific research, collaboration on fishing and agricultural policies, working together on issues such as air pollution, issues such as data roaming charges and a thousand and one other issues. Well that's the opinion I get anyway, but correct me if I'm wrong and you do want to work with the other member states on these issues. | |||
"No and it'll be lucky to survive in 15 years let alone become what America is. For the record, I think it was a good idea, badly executed and should never have started that fucking currency - which was doomed from the get go. I have to agree. An idea to bring together a few nations in Europe by trade and friendship and avoid another War was both right and well done. It evolved into the EEC of 8 Nations and then 11 including the UK. Note it was a trading relationship of very similar nations. people forget that 'Freedom of Movement' was written into the original Treaty of Rome but the movement of people was very small given the similarities of those countries involved. Where it went very badly wrong was the idea of the Euro, the creation of the political EU itself and where all the other powers shifted invisibly to Brussels. No one has ever explained why a group of nations need to share a currency, flag, anthem, Parliament and Police force to sell goods to each other....
Each country has its own flag, it's own police forces, its own parliaments, and many have their own currency.
What you don't understand is that some people actually want to work together.
What you don't understand is that we will still work together.
Can we not work with countries which are not a part of the EU?
You don't want to work together, correct me if I'm wrong, but you want to stop people coming here, you want to stop British people being able to work there, you want to stop the harmonisation of standards and regulation that make trade easier, you want to stop free trade, you want to stop collaboration on issues such as the European arrest warrant and data protection, collaboration on scientific research, collaboration on fishing and agricultural policies, working together on issues such as air pollution, issues such as data roaming charges and a thousand and one other issues. Well that's the opinion I get anyway, but correct me if I'm wrong and you do want to work with the other member states on these issues."can't be arsed to go through that list but you are wrong on so many of the points | |||
"No and it'll be lucky to survive in 15 years let alone become what America is. For the record, I think it was a good idea, badly executed and should never have started that fucking currency - which was doomed from the get go. I have to agree. An idea to bring together a few nations in Europe by trade and friendship and avoid another War was both right and well done. It evolved into the EEC of 8 Nations and then 11 including the UK. Note it was a trading relationship of very similar nations. people forget that 'Freedom of Movement' was written into the original Treaty of Rome but the movement of people was very small given the similarities of those countries involved. Where it went very badly wrong was the idea of the Euro, the creation of the political EU itself and where all the other powers shifted invisibly to Brussels. No one has ever explained why a group of nations need to share a currency, flag, anthem, Parliament and Police force to sell goods to each other....
Each country has its own flag, it's own police forces, its own parliaments, and many have their own currency.
What you don't understand is that some people actually want to work together.
Forgive my ignorance on this but I didn't know the EU was a sovereign country until you just informed me. So when was this sovereign country created, where is it located, what is its capital city and what are its borders? Do BA, Ryannair, Easyjet or Virgin fly there? Not that I feel any wish to go there... "Where did I say that it was a sovereign state? The UN has a flag, does that upset you? Asean has a flag, does that upset you? How about the African union? The organisation of American States? Does that make you feel sad? | |||
"No and it'll be lucky to survive in 15 years let alone become what America is. For the record, I think it was a good idea, badly executed and should never have started that fucking currency - which was doomed from the get go. I have to agree. An idea to bring together a few nations in Europe by trade and friendship and avoid another War was both right and well done. It evolved into the EEC of 8 Nations and then 11 including the UK. Note it was a trading relationship of very similar nations. people forget that 'Freedom of Movement' was written into the original Treaty of Rome but the movement of people was very small given the similarities of those countries involved. Where it went very badly wrong was the idea of the Euro, the creation of the political EU itself and where all the other powers shifted invisibly to Brussels. No one has ever explained why a group of nations need to share a currency, flag, anthem, Parliament and Police force to sell goods to each other....
Each country has its own flag, it's own police forces, its own parliaments, and many have their own currency.
What you don't understand is that some people actually want to work together.
What you don't understand is that we will still work together.
Can we not work with countries which are not a part of the EU?
You don't want to work together, correct me if I'm wrong, but you want to stop people coming here, you want to stop British people being able to work there, you want to stop the harmonisation of standards and regulation that make trade easier, you want to stop free trade, you want to stop collaboration on issues such as the European arrest warrant and data protection, collaboration on scientific research, collaboration on fishing and agricultural policies, working together on issues such as air pollution, issues such as data roaming charges and a thousand and one other issues. Well that's the opinion I get anyway, but correct me if I'm wrong and you do want to work with the other member states on these issues.
can't be arsed to go through that list but you are wrong on so many of the points"The only point I made was that I thought you didn't want to collaborate on these issues, so if Im wrong on that, it must mean that you Do want to collaborate on these issues!  | |||
"No and it'll be lucky to survive in 15 years let alone become what America is. For the record, I think it was a good idea, badly executed and should never have started that fucking currency - which was doomed from the get go. I have to agree. An idea to bring together a few nations in Europe by trade and friendship and avoid another War was both right and well done. It evolved into the EEC of 8 Nations and then 11 including the UK. Note it was a trading relationship of very similar nations. people forget that 'Freedom of Movement' was written into the original Treaty of Rome but the movement of people was very small given the similarities of those countries involved. Where it went very badly wrong was the idea of the Euro, the creation of the political EU itself and where all the other powers shifted invisibly to Brussels. No one has ever explained why a group of nations need to share a currency, flag, anthem, Parliament and Police force to sell goods to each other....
Each country has its own flag, it's own police forces, its own parliaments, and many have their own currency.
What you don't understand is that some people actually want to work together.
What you don't understand is that we will still work together.
Can we not work with countries which are not a part of the EU?
You don't want to work together, correct me if I'm wrong, but you want to stop people coming here, you want to stop British people being able to work there, you want to stop the harmonisation of standards and regulation that make trade easier, you want to stop free trade, you want to stop collaboration on issues such as the European arrest warrant and data protection, collaboration on scientific research, collaboration on fishing and agricultural policies, working together on issues such as air pollution, issues such as data roaming charges and a thousand and one other issues. Well that's the opinion I get anyway, but correct me if I'm wrong and you do want to work with the other member states on these issues.
can't be arsed to go through that list but you are wrong on so many of the points"
AT least they are consistent ... | |||
"No and it'll be lucky to survive in 15 years let alone become what America is. For the record, I think it was a good idea, badly executed and should never have started that fucking currency - which was doomed from the get go. I have to agree. An idea to bring together a few nations in Europe by trade and friendship and avoid another War was both right and well done. It evolved into the EEC of 8 Nations and then 11 including the UK. Note it was a trading relationship of very similar nations. people forget that 'Freedom of Movement' was written into the original Treaty of Rome but the movement of people was very small given the similarities of those countries involved. Where it went very badly wrong was the idea of the Euro, the creation of the political EU itself and where all the other powers shifted invisibly to Brussels. No one has ever explained why a group of nations need to share a currency, flag, anthem, Parliament and Police force to sell goods to each other....
Each country has its own flag, it's own police forces, its own parliaments, and many have their own currency.
What you don't understand is that some people actually want to work together.
Forgive my ignorance on this but I didn't know the EU was a sovereign country until you just informed me. So when was this sovereign country created, where is it located, what is its capital city and what are its borders? Do BA, Ryannair, Easyjet or Virgin fly there? Not that I feel any wish to go there...
Where did I say that it was a sovereign state? The UN has a flag, does that upset you? Asean has a flag, does that upset you? How about the African union? The organisation of American States? Does that make you feel sad?"You never answer questions do you? So here it is again: "No one has ever explained why a group of nations need to share a currency, flag, anthem, Parliament and Police force to sell goods to each other...." | |||
"No and it'll be lucky to survive in 15 years let alone become what America is. For the record, I think it was a good idea, badly executed and should never have started that fucking currency - which was doomed from the get go. I have to agree. An idea to bring together a few nations in Europe by trade and friendship and avoid another War was both right and well done. It evolved into the EEC of 8 Nations and then 11 including the UK. Note it was a trading relationship of very similar nations. people forget that 'Freedom of Movement' was written into the original Treaty of Rome but the movement of people was very small given the similarities of those countries involved. Where it went very badly wrong was the idea of the Euro, the creation of the political EU itself and where all the other powers shifted invisibly to Brussels. No one has ever explained why a group of nations need to share a currency, flag, anthem, Parliament and Police force to sell goods to each other....
Each country has its own flag, it's own police forces, its own parliaments, and many have their own currency.
What you don't understand is that some people actually want to work together.
Forgive my ignorance on this but I didn't know the EU was a sovereign country until you just informed me. So when was this sovereign country created, where is it located, what is its capital city and what are its borders? Do BA, Ryannair, Easyjet or Virgin fly there? Not that I feel any wish to go there...
Where did I say that it was a sovereign state? The UN has a flag, does that upset you? Asean has a flag, does that upset you? How about the African union? The organisation of American States? Does that make you feel sad?
You never answer questions do you? So here it is again:
"No one has ever explained why a group of nations need to share a currency, flag, anthem, Parliament and Police force to sell goods to each other....""Ok I'll put it this way, "a group of countries want to share a currency, are part of a supranational organisation that happens to have a flag (like many others), to have democratic institutions like a parliament, and they want to sell stuff to each other" As regards to a police force, I assume you are talking about eurpol which is a coordinating organisation rather than a police force as anyone would recognise it. For example its staff do not have any powers of arrest and they only have 900 staff to "police" a population of 500 million. | |||
"No and it'll be lucky to survive in 15 years let alone become what America is. For the record, I think it was a good idea, badly executed and should never have started that fucking currency - which was doomed from the get go. I have to agree. An idea to bring together a few nations in Europe by trade and friendship and avoid another War was both right and well done. It evolved into the EEC of 8 Nations and then 11 including the UK. Note it was a trading relationship of very similar nations. people forget that 'Freedom of Movement' was written into the original Treaty of Rome but the movement of people was very small given the similarities of those countries involved. Where it went very badly wrong was the idea of the Euro, the creation of the political EU itself and where all the other powers shifted invisibly to Brussels. No one has ever explained why a group of nations need to share a currency, flag, anthem, Parliament and Police force to sell goods to each other....
Each country has its own flag, it's own police forces, its own parliaments, and many have their own currency.
What you don't understand is that some people actually want to work together.
Forgive my ignorance on this but I didn't know the EU was a sovereign country until you just informed me. So when was this sovereign country created, where is it located, what is its capital city and what are its borders? Do BA, Ryannair, Easyjet or Virgin fly there? Not that I feel any wish to go there...
Where did I say that it was a sovereign state? The UN has a flag, does that upset you? Asean has a flag, does that upset you? How about the African union? The organisation of American States? Does that make you feel sad?
You never answer questions do you? So here it is again:
"No one has ever explained why a group of nations need to share a currency, flag, anthem, Parliament and Police force to sell goods to each other....""The really short answer is "because they want to" simple enough for you? | |||
"No and it'll be lucky to survive in 15 years let alone become what America is. For the record, I think it was a good idea, badly executed and should never have started that fucking currency - which was doomed from the get go. I have to agree. An idea to bring together a few nations in Europe by trade and friendship and avoid another War was both right and well done. It evolved into the EEC of 8 Nations and then 11 including the UK. Note it was a trading relationship of very similar nations. people forget that 'Freedom of Movement' was written into the original Treaty of Rome but the movement of people was very small given the similarities of those countries involved. Where it went very badly wrong was the idea of the Euro, the creation of the political EU itself and where all the other powers shifted invisibly to Brussels. No one has ever explained why a group of nations need to share a currency, flag, anthem, Parliament and Police force to sell goods to each other....
Each country has its own flag, it's own police forces, its own parliaments, and many have their own currency.
What you don't understand is that some people actually want to work together.
Forgive my ignorance on this but I didn't know the EU was a sovereign country until you just informed me. So when was this sovereign country created, where is it located, what is its capital city and what are its borders? Do BA, Ryannair, Easyjet or Virgin fly there? Not that I feel any wish to go there...
Where did I say that it was a sovereign state? The UN has a flag, does that upset you? Asean has a flag, does that upset you? How about the African union? The organisation of American States? Does that make you feel sad?
You never answer questions do you? So here it is again:
"No one has ever explained why a group of nations need to share a currency, flag, anthem, Parliament and Police force to sell goods to each other...."
The really short answer is "because they want to" simple enough for you? "who does? | |||
"No and it'll be lucky to survive in 15 years let alone become what America is. For the record, I think it was a good idea, badly executed and should never have started that fucking currency - which was doomed from the get go. I have to agree. An idea to bring together a few nations in Europe by trade and friendship and avoid another War was both right and well done. It evolved into the EEC of 8 Nations and then 11 including the UK. Note it was a trading relationship of very similar nations. people forget that 'Freedom of Movement' was written into the original Treaty of Rome but the movement of people was very small given the similarities of those countries involved. Where it went very badly wrong was the idea of the Euro, the creation of the political EU itself and where all the other powers shifted invisibly to Brussels. No one has ever explained why a group of nations need to share a currency, flag, anthem, Parliament and Police force to sell goods to each other....
Each country has its own flag, it's own police forces, its own parliaments, and many have their own currency.
What you don't understand is that some people actually want to work together.
Forgive my ignorance on this but I didn't know the EU was a sovereign country until you just informed me. So when was this sovereign country created, where is it located, what is its capital city and what are its borders? Do BA, Ryannair, Easyjet or Virgin fly there? Not that I feel any wish to go there...
Where did I say that it was a sovereign state? The UN has a flag, does that upset you? Asean has a flag, does that upset you? How about the African union? The organisation of American States? Does that make you feel sad?
You never answer questions do you? So here it is again:
"No one has ever explained why a group of nations need to share a currency, flag, anthem, Parliament and Police force to sell goods to each other...."
Ok I'll put it this way, "a group of countries want to share a currency, are part of a supranational organisation that happens to have a flag (like many others), to have democratic institutions like a parliament, and they want to sell stuff to each other"
As regards to a police force, I assume you are talking about eurpol which is a coordinating organisation rather than a police force as anyone would recognise it. For example its staff do not have any powers of arrest and they only have 900 staff to "police" a population of 500 million. "Well let's see how any of these countries 'who want to work together' want to carry on towards a federal superstate over the next national governmental electoral cycle, commencing with the French and German elections next year. | |||
"No and it'll be lucky to survive in 15 years let alone become what America is. For the record, I think it was a good idea, badly executed and should never have started that fucking currency - which was doomed from the get go. I have to agree. An idea to bring together a few nations in Europe by trade and friendship and avoid another War was both right and well done. It evolved into the EEC of 8 Nations and then 11 including the UK. Note it was a trading relationship of very similar nations. people forget that 'Freedom of Movement' was written into the original Treaty of Rome but the movement of people was very small given the similarities of those countries involved. Where it went very badly wrong was the idea of the Euro, the creation of the political EU itself and where all the other powers shifted invisibly to Brussels. No one has ever explained why a group of nations need to share a currency, flag, anthem, Parliament and Police force to sell goods to each other....
Each country has its own flag, it's own police forces, its own parliaments, and many have their own currency.
What you don't understand is that some people actually want to work together.
Forgive my ignorance on this but I didn't know the EU was a sovereign country until you just informed me. So when was this sovereign country created, where is it located, what is its capital city and what are its borders? Do BA, Ryannair, Easyjet or Virgin fly there? Not that I feel any wish to go there...
Where did I say that it was a sovereign state? The UN has a flag, does that upset you? Asean has a flag, does that upset you? How about the African union? The organisation of American States? Does that make you feel sad?
You never answer questions do you? So here it is again:
"No one has ever explained why a group of nations need to share a currency, flag, anthem, Parliament and Police force to sell goods to each other...."
The really short answer is "because they want to" simple enough for you? "Has anyone actually ever bothered to ask the European people if they want those things? No, it has been imposed on them by bureaucrats in Brussels. The people of Britain were just asked in a referendum and the majority here rejected it. | |||
"No and it'll be lucky to survive in 15 years let alone become what America is. For the record, I think it was a good idea, badly executed and should never have started that fucking currency - which was doomed from the get go. I have to agree. An idea to bring together a few nations in Europe by trade and friendship and avoid another War was both right and well done. It evolved into the EEC of 8 Nations and then 11 including the UK. Note it was a trading relationship of very similar nations. people forget that 'Freedom of Movement' was written into the original Treaty of Rome but the movement of people was very small given the similarities of those countries involved. Where it went very badly wrong was the idea of the Euro, the creation of the political EU itself and where all the other powers shifted invisibly to Brussels. No one has ever explained why a group of nations need to share a currency, flag, anthem, Parliament and Police force to sell goods to each other....
Each country has its own flag, it's own police forces, its own parliaments, and many have their own currency.
What you don't understand is that some people actually want to work together.
Forgive my ignorance on this but I didn't know the EU was a sovereign country until you just informed me. So when was this sovereign country created, where is it located, what is its capital city and what are its borders? Do BA, Ryannair, Easyjet or Virgin fly there? Not that I feel any wish to go there...
Where did I say that it was a sovereign state? The UN has a flag, does that upset you? Asean has a flag, does that upset you? How about the African union? The organisation of American States? Does that make you feel sad?
You never answer questions do you? So here it is again:
"No one has ever explained why a group of nations need to share a currency, flag, anthem, Parliament and Police force to sell goods to each other...."
The really short answer is "because they want to" simple enough for you? "You've been listening to Billy Piper again | |||
"No and it'll be lucky to survive in 15 years let alone become what America is. For the record, I think it was a good idea, badly executed and should never have started that fucking currency - which was doomed from the get go. I have to agree. An idea to bring together a few nations in Europe by trade and friendship and avoid another War was both right and well done. It evolved into the EEC of 8 Nations and then 11 including the UK. Note it was a trading relationship of very similar nations. people forget that 'Freedom of Movement' was written into the original Treaty of Rome but the movement of people was very small given the similarities of those countries involved. Where it went very badly wrong was the idea of the Euro, the creation of the political EU itself and where all the other powers shifted invisibly to Brussels. No one has ever explained why a group of nations need to share a currency, flag, anthem, Parliament and Police force to sell goods to each other....
Each country has its own flag, it's own police forces, its own parliaments, and many have their own currency.
What you don't understand is that some people actually want to work together.
Forgive my ignorance on this but I didn't know the EU was a sovereign country until you just informed me. So when was this sovereign country created, where is it located, what is its capital city and what are its borders? Do BA, Ryannair, Easyjet or Virgin fly there? Not that I feel any wish to go there...
Where did I say that it was a sovereign state? The UN has a flag, does that upset you? Asean has a flag, does that upset you? How about the African union? The organisation of American States? Does that make you feel sad?
You never answer questions do you? So here it is again:
"No one has ever explained why a group of nations need to share a currency, flag, anthem, Parliament and Police force to sell goods to each other...."
The really short answer is "because they want to" simple enough for you?
Has anyone actually ever bothered to ask the European people if they want those things? No, it has been imposed on them by bureaucrats in Brussels. The people of Britain were just asked in a referendum and the majority here rejected it. "Who cares about the truth these days? Not you | |||
"No and it'll be lucky to survive in 15 years let alone become what America is. For the record, I think it was a good idea, badly executed and should never have started that fucking currency - which was doomed from the get go. I have to agree. An idea to bring together a few nations in Europe by trade and friendship and avoid another War was both right and well done. It evolved into the EEC of 8 Nations and then 11 including the UK. Note it was a trading relationship of very similar nations. people forget that 'Freedom of Movement' was written into the original Treaty of Rome but the movement of people was very small given the similarities of those countries involved. Where it went very badly wrong was the idea of the Euro, the creation of the political EU itself and where all the other powers shifted invisibly to Brussels. No one has ever explained why a group of nations need to share a currency, flag, anthem, Parliament and Police force to sell goods to each other....
Each country has its own flag, it's own police forces, its own parliaments, and many have their own currency.
What you don't understand is that some people actually want to work together.
Forgive my ignorance on this but I didn't know the EU was a sovereign country until you just informed me. So when was this sovereign country created, where is it located, what is its capital city and what are its borders? Do BA, Ryannair, Easyjet or Virgin fly there? Not that I feel any wish to go there...
Where did I say that it was a sovereign state? The UN has a flag, does that upset you? Asean has a flag, does that upset you? How about the African union? The organisation of American States? Does that make you feel sad?
You never answer questions do you? So here it is again:
"No one has ever explained why a group of nations need to share a currency, flag, anthem, Parliament and Police force to sell goods to each other...."
The really short answer is "because they want to" simple enough for you?
Has anyone actually ever bothered to ask the European people if they want those things? No, it has been imposed on them by bureaucrats in Brussels. The people of Britain were just asked in a referendum and the majority here rejected it.
Who cares about the truth these days? Not you "What I said was the truth but it appears you can't handle it, just like you can't handle the result of the referendum. | |||
"No and it'll be lucky to survive in 15 years let alone become what America is. For the record, I think it was a good idea, badly executed and should never have started that fucking currency - which was doomed from the get go. I have to agree. An idea to bring together a few nations in Europe by trade and friendship and avoid another War was both right and well done. It evolved into the EEC of 8 Nations and then 11 including the UK. Note it was a trading relationship of very similar nations. people forget that 'Freedom of Movement' was written into the original Treaty of Rome but the movement of people was very small given the similarities of those countries involved. Where it went very badly wrong was the idea of the Euro, the creation of the political EU itself and where all the other powers shifted invisibly to Brussels. No one has ever explained why a group of nations need to share a currency, flag, anthem, Parliament and Police force to sell goods to each other....
Each country has its own flag, it's own police forces, its own parliaments, and many have their own currency.
What you don't understand is that some people actually want to work together.
Forgive my ignorance on this but I didn't know the EU was a sovereign country until you just informed me. So when was this sovereign country created, where is it located, what is its capital city and what are its borders? Do BA, Ryannair, Easyjet or Virgin fly there? Not that I feel any wish to go there...
Where did I say that it was a sovereign state? The UN has a flag, does that upset you? Asean has a flag, does that upset you? How about the African union? The organisation of American States? Does that make you feel sad?
You never answer questions do you? So here it is again:
"No one has ever explained why a group of nations need to share a currency, flag, anthem, Parliament and Police force to sell goods to each other...."
The really short answer is "because they want to" simple enough for you?
Has anyone actually ever bothered to ask the European people if they want those things? No, it has been imposed on them by bureaucrats in Brussels. The people of Britain were just asked in a referendum and the majority here rejected it.
Who cares about the truth these days? Not you "From the person who doesn't believe analysts measure their accuracy!! | |||
"No and it'll be lucky to survive in 15 years let alone become what America is. For the record, I think it was a good idea, badly executed and should never have started that fucking currency - which was doomed from the get go. I have to agree. An idea to bring together a few nations in Europe by trade and friendship and avoid another War was both right and well done. It evolved into the EEC of 8 Nations and then 11 including the UK. Note it was a trading relationship of very similar nations. people forget that 'Freedom of Movement' was written into the original Treaty of Rome but the movement of people was very small given the similarities of those countries involved. Where it went very badly wrong was the idea of the Euro, the creation of the political EU itself and where all the other powers shifted invisibly to Brussels. No one has ever explained why a group of nations need to share a currency, flag, anthem, Parliament and Police force to sell goods to each other....
Each country has its own flag, it's own police forces, its own parliaments, and many have their own currency.
What you don't understand is that some people actually want to work together.
What you don't understand is that we will still work together.
Can we not work with countries which are not a part of the EU?
You don't want to work together, correct me if I'm wrong, but you want to stop people coming here, you want to stop British people being able to work there, you want to stop the harmonisation of standards and regulation that make trade easier, you want to stop free trade, you want to stop collaboration on issues such as the European arrest warrant and data protection, collaboration on scientific research, collaboration on fishing and agricultural policies, working together on issues such as air pollution, issues such as data roaming charges and a thousand and one other issues. Well that's the opinion I get anyway, but correct me if I'm wrong and you do want to work with the other member states on these issues.
can't be arsed to go through that list but you are wrong on so many of the points"How can you inform a learned opinion or poo poo an argument without digesting the information. | |||
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"the tower of babel story in the bible is about the EU" It's the most logical explanation I've ever heard of why we need so many fucking different languages in the world! | |||
"No and it'll be lucky to survive in 15 years let alone become what America is. For the record, I think it was a good idea, badly executed and should never have started that fucking currency - which was doomed from the get go. I have to agree. An idea to bring together a few nations in Europe by trade and friendship and avoid another War was both right and well done. It evolved into the EEC of 8 Nations and then 11 including the UK. Note it was a trading relationship of very similar nations. people forget that 'Freedom of Movement' was written into the original Treaty of Rome but the movement of people was very small given the similarities of those countries involved. Where it went very badly wrong was the idea of the Euro, the creation of the political EU itself and where all the other powers shifted invisibly to Brussels. No one has ever explained why a group of nations need to share a currency, flag, anthem, Parliament and Police force to sell goods to each other....
Each country has its own flag, it's own police forces, its own parliaments, and many have their own currency.
What you don't understand is that some people actually want to work together.
Forgive my ignorance on this but I didn't know the EU was a sovereign country until you just informed me. So when was this sovereign country created, where is it located, what is its capital city and what are its borders? Do BA, Ryannair, Easyjet or Virgin fly there? Not that I feel any wish to go there...
Where did I say that it was a sovereign state? The UN has a flag, does that upset you? Asean has a flag, does that upset you? How about the African union? The organisation of American States? Does that make you feel sad?
You never answer questions do you? So here it is again:
"No one has ever explained why a group of nations need to share a currency, flag, anthem, Parliament and Police force to sell goods to each other...."
The really short answer is "because they want to" simple enough for you?
Has anyone actually ever bothered to ask the European people if they want those things? No, it has been imposed on them by bureaucrats in Brussels. The people of Britain were just asked in a referendum and the majority here rejected it.
Who cares about the truth these days? Not you
What I said was the truth but it appears you can't handle it, just like you can't handle the result of the referendum. "So there haven't been any general elections in the member states with European issues in their manifestos? That is a chance for the people to have a say. There have been European parliamentary elections again where people have had a say. And then there have also been 43 referendums on issues relating the EU, and its predecessors, across the member states. So really its nonsensical and ignorant to say that the European people haven't been asked about these things. | |||
"No and it'll be lucky to survive in 15 years let alone become what America is. For the record, I think it was a good idea, badly executed and should never have started that fucking currency - which was doomed from the get go. I have to agree. An idea to bring together a few nations in Europe by trade and friendship and avoid another War was both right and well done. It evolved into the EEC of 8 Nations and then 11 including the UK. Note it was a trading relationship of very similar nations. people forget that 'Freedom of Movement' was written into the original Treaty of Rome but the movement of people was very small given the similarities of those countries involved. Where it went very badly wrong was the idea of the Euro, the creation of the political EU itself and where all the other powers shifted invisibly to Brussels. No one has ever explained why a group of nations need to share a currency, flag, anthem, Parliament and Police force to sell goods to each other....
Each country has its own flag, it's own police forces, its own parliaments, and many have their own currency.
What you don't understand is that some people actually want to work together.
Forgive my ignorance on this but I didn't know the EU was a sovereign country until you just informed me. So when was this sovereign country created, where is it located, what is its capital city and what are its borders? Do BA, Ryannair, Easyjet or Virgin fly there? Not that I feel any wish to go there...
Where did I say that it was a sovereign state? The UN has a flag, does that upset you? Asean has a flag, does that upset you? How about the African union? The organisation of American States? Does that make you feel sad?
You never answer questions do you? So here it is again:
"No one has ever explained why a group of nations need to share a currency, flag, anthem, Parliament and Police force to sell goods to each other...."
The really short answer is "because they want to" simple enough for you?
Has anyone actually ever bothered to ask the European people if they want those things? No, it has been imposed on them by bureaucrats in Brussels. The people of Britain were just asked in a referendum and the majority here rejected it.
Who cares about the truth these days? Not you
What I said was the truth but it appears you can't handle it, just like you can't handle the result of the referendum.
So there haven't been any general elections in the member states with European issues in their manifestos? That is a chance for the people to have a say.
There have been European parliamentary elections again where people have had a say. And then there have also been 43 referendums on issues relating the EU, and its predecessors, across the member states.
So really its nonsensical and ignorant to say that the European people haven't been asked about these things."Really???? I don't recall any elections or referendums in Europe asking the people if they wanted an EU flag or an EU anthem? | |||
"No and it'll be lucky to survive in 15 years let alone become what America is. For the record, I think it was a good idea, badly executed and should never have started that fucking currency - which was doomed from the get go. I have to agree. An idea to bring together a few nations in Europe by trade and friendship and avoid another War was both right and well done. It evolved into the EEC of 8 Nations and then 11 including the UK. Note it was a trading relationship of very similar nations. people forget that 'Freedom of Movement' was written into the original Treaty of Rome but the movement of people was very small given the similarities of those countries involved. Where it went very badly wrong was the idea of the Euro, the creation of the political EU itself and where all the other powers shifted invisibly to Brussels. No one has ever explained why a group of nations need to share a currency, flag, anthem, Parliament and Police force to sell goods to each other....
Each country has its own flag, it's own police forces, its own parliaments, and many have their own currency.
What you don't understand is that some people actually want to work together.
Forgive my ignorance on this but I didn't know the EU was a sovereign country until you just informed me. So when was this sovereign country created, where is it located, what is its capital city and what are its borders? Do BA, Ryannair, Easyjet or Virgin fly there? Not that I feel any wish to go there...
Where did I say that it was a sovereign state? The UN has a flag, does that upset you? Asean has a flag, does that upset you? How about the African union? The organisation of American States? Does that make you feel sad?
You never answer questions do you? So here it is again:
"No one has ever explained why a group of nations need to share a currency, flag, anthem, Parliament and Police force to sell goods to each other...."
The really short answer is "because they want to" simple enough for you? "Well we didn't want it and at the first opportunity to get out of the political monstrosity we voted to Leave. Something you are having a great deal of trouble accepting. But you haven't answered the question (again). We joined a simple trading arrangement called the EEC and it worked brilliantly for us and our 8 partners for some 20 years. And then the EC was created by Maastricht followed by the EU created by Lisbon Treaty. So let me re-phrase the question: "What other trading group of Nations apart from the EU demands its members 1) pay in for membership, 2) fly some foreign flag alongside National Flags, 3) adopt a foreign currency, 4) adopt a foreign anthem, 5) enact laws drafted in a foreign country and 6) penalise other Nations not in the trading group by erecting Tariff and non-Tariff barriers to trade?" I'll give you a clue: NONE! | |||
"No and it'll be lucky to survive in 15 years let alone become what America is. For the record, I think it was a good idea, badly executed and should never have started that fucking currency - which was doomed from the get go. I have to agree. An idea to bring together a few nations in Europe by trade and friendship and avoid another War was both right and well done. It evolved into the EEC of 8 Nations and then 11 including the UK. Note it was a trading relationship of very similar nations. people forget that 'Freedom of Movement' was written into the original Treaty of Rome but the movement of people was very small given the similarities of those countries involved. Where it went very badly wrong was the idea of the Euro, the creation of the political EU itself and where all the other powers shifted invisibly to Brussels. No one has ever explained why a group of nations need to share a currency, flag, anthem, Parliament and Police force to sell goods to each other....
Each country has its own flag, it's own police forces, its own parliaments, and many have their own currency.
What you don't understand is that some people actually want to work together.
Forgive my ignorance on this but I didn't know the EU was a sovereign country until you just informed me. So when was this sovereign country created, where is it located, what is its capital city and what are its borders? Do BA, Ryannair, Easyjet or Virgin fly there? Not that I feel any wish to go there...
Where did I say that it was a sovereign state? The UN has a flag, does that upset you? Asean has a flag, does that upset you? How about the African union? The organisation of American States? Does that make you feel sad?
You never answer questions do you? So here it is again:
"No one has ever explained why a group of nations need to share a currency, flag, anthem, Parliament and Police force to sell goods to each other...."
The really short answer is "because they want to" simple enough for you?
Well we didn't want it and at the first opportunity to get out of the political monstrosity we voted to Leave. Something you are having a great deal of trouble accepting.
But you haven't answered the question (again). We joined a simple trading arrangement called the EEC and it worked brilliantly for us and our 8 partners for some 20 years. And then the EC was created by Maastricht followed by the EU created by Lisbon Treaty.
So let me re-phrase the question:
"What other trading group of Nations apart from the EU demands its members 1) pay in for membership, 2) fly some foreign flag alongside National Flags, 3) adopt a foreign currency, 4) adopt a foreign anthem, 5) enact laws drafted in a foreign country and 6) penalise other Nations not in the trading group by erecting Tariff and non-Tariff barriers to trade?"
I'll give you a clue: NONE!"1) Asean has a membership fee 2) Asean has a flag (but it's not a foreign flag, its a flag of the membership organsiation. The EU is exactly the same, unless you want to go around the houses with the 'is the EU a soverign state?' question again?) 3) Timor-Leste has the US Dollar as its official currency 4) Asean has an anthem (I really struggle to comprehend why you are so upset about a EU anthem? Out of all the things you could object to I don't understand why you are worried about such petty things as a flag, or an anthem. Also if you can please clarify the number of times you have heard Beethoven's Ode to Joy and enjoyed it, and then heard the EU anthem and hated it (even though it's the same piece of music) that would be great) 5) Asean is a membership organisation so whenever they create and sign legally binding treaties (a form of law) it is going to be signed by the member states, at an international conference in a foreign country (apart from for the host nation of course) 6) Asean members have tariff and non-tariff barriers to trade outside of the block. Shall we have a look at the African union next? Their flag, anthem, plans for monetary union etc? | |||
