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"Anyway, re the strike, of course it's mostly about the money, but I fully support them in that and I'd quite like my doctors to be well paid, and paid more for choosing to work in some of the less glamorous specialties which have unsociable hours. If you believe that the government's case isn't wholly about money too, you're an even bigger fool." 
As to the not liking the real world comment in the OP, I think junior doctors probably see more of it than most of us will in our lifetimes. And they see it when it's in desperate need of help from someone who isn't more strung out and exhausted than they already are. | |||
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"Hands up who, given the similar position.....wouldn't fight for a better deal? " And put lives at risk? | |||
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"Hands up who, given the similar position.....wouldn't fight for a better deal? And put lives at risk?" Lives are always at risk | |||
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"Anyway, re the strike, of course it's mostly about the money, but I fully support them in that and I'd quite like my doctors to be well paid, and paid more for choosing to work in some of the less glamorous specialties which have unsociable hours. If you believe that the government's case isn't wholly about money too, you're an even bigger fool." I have an opinion which differs to yours How does that make me a fool ?? | |||
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"Hands up who, given the similar position.....wouldn't fight for a better deal? And put lives at risk?" Do you honestly think that if a life or death situation occurred they'd say "nope, we're all on strike" | |||
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"I'd like my doctor not to be half asleep when treating me or my loved ones. Having very recent experience with TH being hospitalised for 2 weeks, I saw they work bloody long hours & that isn't safe. I completely support them in their strike. It's time our NHS was run by medics not businessmen & accountants " | |||
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"I'd like my doctor not to be half asleep when treating me or my loved ones. Having very recent experience with TH being hospitalised for 2 weeks, I saw they work bloody long hours & that isn't safe. I completely support them in their strike. It's time our NHS was run by medics not businessmen & accountants " +1000000000
It's actually time all government funded organisations were run by people with knowledge and first hand experience said department.
Instead they're run by yes men/women, paper pushers and politicians | |||
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"Straight out of Monday to Friday university Not loving the real world Not loving being unable to hit the wine bar at 4.30 on Friday Go on strike and tell us it's because they care passionately " No junior doctor has ever just worked Monday to Friday, they work in the hospitals alongside their university training , and quite likely if you ever need emergency medical attention in the middle of the night it will be junior doctors that give you the best chance of survival. That is despite paying for their own training, working ridiculous hrs and being severely under supported by management. | |||
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"Anyway, re the strike, of course it's mostly about the money, but I fully support them in that and I'd quite like my doctors to be well paid, and paid more for choosing to work in some of the less glamorous specialties which have unsociable hours. If you believe that the government's case isn't wholly about money too, you're an even bigger fool. I have an opinion which differs to yours How does that make me a fool ??" Not so much the opinion itself as the way you expressed it in the opening post. I've heard convincing arguments against the strike, yours is not it. | |||
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"Hands up who, given the similar position.....wouldn't fight for a better deal? And put lives at risk? Do you honestly think that if a life or death situation occurred they'd say "nope, we're all on strike"" The consultants who are qualified unfortunately have to work even longer and harder to cover them So no But why should they I agree they are working long hours But who isn't | |||
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"Hands up who, given the similar position.....wouldn't fight for a better deal? And put lives at risk?" All emergency care is being covered by consultants.  | |||
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"Hands up who, given the similar position.....wouldn't fight for a better deal? And put lives at risk? Do you honestly think that if a life or death situation occurred they'd say "nope, we're all on strike" The consultants who are qualified unfortunately have to work even longer and harder to cover them So no But why should they I agree they are working long hours But who isn't " I'm not. I wouldn't want to work the hours they do either. | |||
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"Hands up who, given the similar position.....wouldn't fight for a better deal? And put lives at risk? Do you honestly think that if a life or death situation occurred they'd say "nope, we're all on strike" The consultants who are qualified unfortunately have to work even longer and harder to cover them So no But why should they I agree they are working long hours But who isn't " I only do 37 a week..... They do 60/70 | |||
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"Anyway, re the strike, of course it's mostly about the money, but I fully support them in that and I'd quite like my doctors to be well paid, and paid more for choosing to work in some of the less glamorous specialties which have unsociable hours. If you believe that the government's case isn't wholly about money too, you're an even bigger fool. I have an opinion which differs to yours How does that make me a fool ?? Not so much the opinion itself as the way you expressed it in the opening post. I've heard convincing arguments against the strike, yours is not it. " Should I ask your permission and maybe run it by you for your approval going forward? | |||
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"Junior doesn't mean young. Just that they're not a consultant yet." | |||
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"Anyway, re the strike, of course it's mostly about the money, but I fully support them in that and I'd quite like my doctors to be well paid, and paid more for choosing to work in some of the less glamorous specialties which have unsociable hours. If you believe that the government's case isn't wholly about money too, you're an even bigger fool. I have an opinion which differs to yours How does that make me a fool ?? Not so much the opinion itself as the way you expressed it in the opening post. I've heard convincing arguments against the strike, yours is not it. Should I ask your permission and maybe run it by you for your approval going forward? " You could take on board the comments, change the attitude and provide a better reason for being pissed off than your inaccurate description of junior docs training yrs.  | |||
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"Junior doesn't mean young. Just that they're not a consultant yet. " | |||
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"Straight out of Monday to Friday university Not loving the real world Not loving being unable to hit the wine bar at 4.30 on Friday Go on strike and tell us it's because they care passionately " They went to university, yes. For most "young doctors" that was many moons ago. Not loving the real world? You clearly have not met many doctors. I think you need to come up with a more convincing argument. Your effort to date is not great. | |||
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"Anyway, re the strike, of course it's mostly about the money, but I fully support them in that and I'd quite like my doctors to be well paid, and paid more for choosing to work in some of the less glamorous specialties which have unsociable hours. If you believe that the government's case isn't wholly about money too, you're an even bigger fool. I have an opinion which differs to yours How does that make me a fool ?? Not so much the opinion itself as the way you expressed it in the opening post. I've heard convincing arguments against the strike, yours is not it. Should I ask your permission and maybe run it by you for your approval going forward? " That's not a bad idea actually, you'd probably make less daft comments. How's about you spend a month working alongside a JD, then let us know your thoughts. | |||
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"Anyway, re the strike, of course it's mostly about the money, but I fully support them in that and I'd quite like my doctors to be well paid, and paid more for choosing to work in some of the less glamorous specialties which have unsociable hours. If you believe that the government's case isn't wholly about money too, you're an even bigger fool. I have an opinion which differs to yours How does that make me a fool ?? Not so much the opinion itself as the way you expressed it in the opening post. I've heard convincing arguments against the strike, yours is not it. Should I ask your permission and maybe run it by you for your approval going forward? You could take on board the comments, change the attitude and provide a better reason for being pissed off than your inaccurate description of junior docs training yrs. "Have no issue with people having s different opinion Don't call me a fool tho | |||
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"Hands up who, given the similar position.....wouldn't fight for a better deal? And put lives at risk?" Lives are at risk from staff shortages, back to back 16 hour shifts, continuous 70+ hour working weeks and regularly being asked to do duties way beyond their specialities. Sorry OO .... But you seem to be on a different planet to the rest of us! | |||
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"Junior doesn't mean young. Just that they're not a consultant yet." Exactly,i work in healthcare and they work bloody hard to look after all our friends and families. If your employer wanted you to work a 15 hr day would you be happy? Miss | |||
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"Anyway, re the strike, of course it's mostly about the money, but I fully support them in that and I'd quite like my doctors to be well paid, and paid more for choosing to work in some of the less glamorous specialties which have unsociable hours. If you believe that the government's case isn't wholly about money too, you're an even bigger fool." Oh it's about money alright, just not saving public funds. It's about deliberately driving the NHS to failure so they can push for privatisation, then share the spoils with all their crooked chums. | |||
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"Hands up who, given the similar position.....wouldn't fight for a better deal? And put lives at risk? Do you honestly think that if a life or death situation occurred they'd say "nope, we're all on strike" The consultants who are qualified unfortunately have to work even longer and harder to cover them So no But why should they I agree they are working long hours But who isn't " The consultants who pretty much unilaterally support the strike action? | |||
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"Hands up who, given the similar position.....wouldn't fight for a better deal? And put lives at risk?" Patients will not be at risk as such,as consultants will be covering the shifts .A doctor who is overworked is more likely to put patients at risk Miss | |||
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" I have an opinion which differs to yours How does that make me a fool ??" Because you have yet to provide any evidence to the contrary. You are either a fool. Or simply a troll trying to stir up a political row... | |||
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"Anyway, re the strike, of course it's mostly about the money, but I fully support them in that and I'd quite like my doctors to be well paid, and paid more for choosing to work in some of the less glamorous specialties which have unsociable hours. If you believe that the government's case isn't wholly about money too, you're an even bigger fool. I have an opinion which differs to yours How does that make me a fool ?? Not so much the opinion itself as the way you expressed it in the opening post. I've heard convincing arguments against the strike, yours is not it. Should I ask your permission and maybe run it by you for your approval going forward? You could take on board the comments, change the attitude and provide a better reason for being pissed off than your inaccurate description of junior docs training yrs.
Have no issue with people having s different opinion
Don't call me a fool tho "She didn't. There was an if and a whole conditional sentence before fool. You would only be one if the conditions were met. | |||
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"Anyway, re the strike, of course it's mostly about the money, but I fully support them in that and I'd quite like my doctors to be well paid, and paid more for choosing to work in some of the less glamorous specialties which have unsociable hours. If you believe that the government's case isn't wholly about money too, you're an even bigger fool. I have an opinion which differs to yours How does that make me a fool ?? Not so much the opinion itself as the way you expressed it in the opening post. I've heard convincing arguments against the strike, yours is not it. Should I ask your permission and maybe run it by you for your approval going forward? " Not at all. But I'll reserve the right to call someone a fool for making a shallow and inherently foolish argument, if that's ok with you  | |||
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"Anyway, re the strike, of course it's mostly about the money, but I fully support them in that and I'd quite like my doctors to be well paid, and paid more for choosing to work in some of the less glamorous specialties which have unsociable hours. If you believe that the government's case isn't wholly about money too, you're an even bigger fool. I have an opinion which differs to yours How does that make me a fool ?? Not so much the opinion itself as the way you expressed it in the opening post. I've heard convincing arguments against the strike, yours is not it. Should I ask your permission and maybe run it by you for your approval going forward? You could take on board the comments, change the attitude and provide a better reason for being pissed off than your inaccurate description of junior docs training yrs.
Have no issue with people having s different opinion
Don't call me a fool tho
She didn't. There was an if and a whole conditional sentence before fool. You would only be one if the conditions were met."Errrrrrr she did | |||
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"Straight out of Monday to Friday university Not loving the real world Not loving being unable to hit the wine bar at 4.30 on Friday Go on strike and tell us it's because they care passionately " Do you know any one that has trained to be a doctor? | |||
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"Anyway, re the strike, of course it's mostly about the money, but I fully support them in that and I'd quite like my doctors to be well paid, and paid more for choosing to work in some of the less glamorous specialties which have unsociable hours. If you believe that the government's case isn't wholly about money too, you're an even bigger fool. I have an opinion which differs to yours How does that make me a fool ?? Not so much the opinion itself as the way you expressed it in the opening post. I've heard convincing arguments against the strike, yours is not it. Should I ask your permission and maybe run it by you for your approval going forward? You could take on board the comments, change the attitude and provide a better reason for being pissed off than your inaccurate description of junior docs training yrs.
Have no issue with people having s different opinion
Don't call me a fool tho
She didn't. There was an if and a whole conditional sentence before fool. You would only be one if the conditions were met.
Errrrrrr she did "Only if you think the government's case isn't wholly about money. Which it blatantly is. | |||
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"Anyway, re the strike, of course it's mostly about the money, but I fully support them in that and I'd quite like my doctors to be well paid, and paid more for choosing to work in some of the less glamorous specialties which have unsociable hours. If you believe that the government's case isn't wholly about money too, you're an even bigger fool. I have an opinion which differs to yours How does that make me a fool ?? Not so much the opinion itself as the way you expressed it in the opening post. I've heard convincing arguments against the strike, yours is not it. Should I ask your permission and maybe run it by you for your approval going forward? You could take on board the comments, change the attitude and provide a better reason for being pissed off than your inaccurate description of junior docs training yrs.
Have no issue with people having s different opinion
Don't call me a fool tho
She didn't. There was an if and a whole conditional sentence before fool. You would only be one if the conditions were met.
Errrrrrr she did "Errrrrrr she didn't. | |||
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"Straight out of Monday to Friday university Not loving the real world Not loving being unable to hit the wine bar at 4.30 on Friday Go on strike and tell us it's because they care passionately " Yeah cause that's the reason for the strike. Jesus. Daily mail reader perchance?  | |||
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"Straight out of Monday to Friday university Not loving the real world Not loving being unable to hit the wine bar at 4.30 on Friday Go on strike and tell us it's because they care passionately " My sister is a "junior" . Has been out of Uni for 6 years. I know how hard she works and I don't believe you know what you are talking about, OP. (Thats the polite version of what I started to type.) | |||
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"Straight out of Monday to Friday university Not loving the real world Not loving being unable to hit the wine bar at 4.30 on Friday Go on strike and tell us it's because they care passionately " There are some Junior Doctors who have been out of university for 40 years and more. A good percentage will have qualified over 10 years ago. Only a small percentage have recently qualified, and medical school isn't 9-5. HTH | |||
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"And hopefully nurses will be next. " They are definitely next on Hunt's hit list along with AHP's. | |||
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"Straight out of Monday to Friday university Not loving the real world Not loving being unable to hit the wine bar at 4.30 on Friday Go on strike and tell us it's because they care passionately " There are some Junior Doctors who have been out of university for 40 years and more. A good percentage will have qualified over 10 years ago. Only a small percentage have recently qualified, and medical school isn't 9-5. HTH | |||
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"And hopefully nurses will be next. They are definitely next on Hunt's hit list along with AHP's." Just to clarify for striking rather than being on his hit list. | |||
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"They are getting as bad as tube drivers." Yeah damn these employees with strong unions who get stand up for their rights and demand a decent salary rather than working for minimum wage on a zero hours contract | |||
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"This went well." I think this thread is pretty representative of the support that junior doctors have across the country and how people care passionately about the NHS | |||
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"This went well." I'm pretty sure he planned it to go pretty much like this... | |||
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"I'd like my doctor not to be half asleep when treating me or my loved ones. Having very recent experience with TH being hospitalised for 2 weeks, I saw they work bloody long hours & that isn't safe. I completely support them in their strike. It's time our NHS was run by medics not businessmen & accountants " | |||
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"Straight out of Monday to Friday university Not loving the real world Not loving being unable to hit the wine bar at 4.30 on Friday Go on strike and tell us it's because they care passionately " Really...they are in clinical practice from the start now | |||
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"And she actually admitted to calling me a fool " She did? That scoundrel! | |||
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"Ok I admit my opening post was a knee jerk A badly throughout post However I do strongly disagree with strike action And she actually admitted to calling me a fool " What would you do then. Dont you see that striking goes against everything health care professionals believe in so it speaks volumes about how broken down they really are. | |||
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"And hopefully nurses will be next. They are definitely next on Hunt's hit list along with AHP's." As a nurse - I feel we are always on the hit list. | |||
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"I must admit it utterly baffles me Why they get into a job When they are fully aware of those conditions, they're allegedly educated people, so surely the would know a little about the working conditions, expectations, pay scale and hours..... But then moan about it and go on strike after they've gone into the profession?!?! It's a pretty simpleton move in my opinion... It's not just limited to Dr's Teachers Firefighters Police etc etc etc. Perhaps if they didn't go into the job at all. A huge shortage would perhaps drive the government to change conditions to attract people to go into the profession. It's a bit like joining the army then going on strike because you have to go into combat zones, or wear green! "They went into the job fully aware of the conditions. After years of education and training. The government are now attempting to change those conditions. They're not moaning about something they didn't know about before. This is new. | |||
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"Ok I admit my opening post was a knee jerk A badly throughout post However I do strongly disagree with strike action And she actually admitted to calling me a fool " Ouch? Really? I will have to think about that for a little while. | |||
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"They are getting as bad as tube drivers. Yeah damn these employees with strong unions who get stand up for their rights and demand a decent salary rather than working for minimum wage on a zero hours contract" May also say they should stop playing politics. I agree. | |||
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"I wonder how up in arms you would be if your operation got postponed Or of that of a loved one How upset you'd be if other sectors followed suit Say a pub chain All supermarkets The mundane crap " Operations already get cancelled all the time,due to staff shortages. | |||
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"I wonder how up in arms you would be if your operation got postponed Or of that of a loved one How upset you'd be if other sectors followed suit Say a pub chain All supermarkets The mundane crap " As it happens, I've had op's postponed in the past. Shit happens and I just got on with it. I wouldn't miss a pub. There's proper shops to replace the supermarkets. There's a pattern forming, we just get on with it when something goes awry. | |||
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"And hopefully nurses will be next. They are definitely next on Hunt's hit list along with AHP's. Just to clarify for striking rather than being on his hit list. " We knew what you meant | |||
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"I must admit it utterly baffles me Why they get into a job When they are fully aware of those conditions, they're allegedly educated people, so surely the would know a little about the working conditions, expectations, pay scale and hours..... But then moan about it and go on strike after they've gone into the profession?!?! It's a pretty simpleton move in my opinion... It's not just limited to Dr's Teachers Firefighters Police etc etc etc. Perhaps if they didn't go into the job at all. A huge shortage would perhaps drive the government to change conditions to attract people to go into the profession. It's a bit like joining the army then going on strike because you have to go into combat zones, or wear green!
They went into the job fully aware of the conditions. After years of education and training. The government are now attempting to change those conditions. They're not moaning about something they didn't know about before. This is new."What is the government trying to change? Extending hours? Reducing pay? | |||
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"I wonder how up in arms you would be if your operation got postponed Or of that of a loved one How upset you'd be if other sectors followed suit Say a pub chain All supermarkets The mundane crap " Well if bar workers went on strike, I'm pretty sure I could cope. Same with supermarkets. However as there are no bar staff or supermarket workers unions that I know of,the chances of a strike in any of them are slim to none. As for if an operation for me or a loved one got postponed, good. I wouldn't want a team of ball-bagged doctors cutting into me, I would rather they were in the best possible condition for the task. | |||
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" What is the government trying to change? Extending hours? Reducing pay?" Pretty much both. | |||
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"Ok I admit my opening post was a knee jerk A badly throughout post However I do strongly disagree with strike action And she actually admitted to calling me a fool " Why do you disagree with the strike action, regardless of thiss comment your contempt for the junior doctors was clear in your opening post/ So why shouldn't they strike? Are you saying you agree with Hunt? If so why? Instead of angry insults in your opening post you give us some genuine opinions? | |||
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"I must admit it utterly baffles me Why they get into a job When they are fully aware of those conditions, they're allegedly educated people, so surely the would know a little about the working conditions, expectations, pay scale and hours..... But then moan about it and go on strike after they've gone into the profession?!?! It's a pretty simpleton move in my opinion... It's not just limited to Dr's Teachers Firefighters Police etc etc etc. Perhaps if they didn't go into the job at all. A huge shortage would perhaps drive the government to change conditions to attract people to go into the profession. It's a bit like joining the army then going on strike because you have to go into combat zones, or wear green!
They went into the job fully aware of the conditions. After years of education and training. The government are now attempting to change those conditions. They're not moaning about something they didn't know about before. This is new.
What is the government trying to change? Extending hours? Reducing pay?"If you really have to ask that, what did you base your previous post on? Baffles me that someone could offer an opinion without knowing even the most basic of facts relating to what they are talking about | |||
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"They are getting as bad as tube drivers." Someone else who appears to have no grasp of the facts......average tube conductor (it's they threatening strike not the drivers) actually get paid more than junior doctors! | |||
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"The main issue, rather than being individual conditions, is that the plans detailed for seven day routine work would cause the current 5 day system to crumble further because of financial and staff shortages. It would become more not less dangerous. Emergencies are dealt with for seven days in any case. Doctors of all grades fear for the nhs not themselves. The strike has become inevitable because of the mendacious purposeful failure of those in power to listen to the workforce. " And this is why there is almost universal support for the junior doctors from within the NHS.
When Hunt lied and tried to claim that he had the backing of the executives of many trusts several spoke out saying that was not the case and th | |||
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"The main issue, rather than being individual conditions, is that the plans detailed for seven day routine work would cause the current 5 day system to crumble further because of financial and staff shortages. It would become more not less dangerous. Emergencies are dealt with for seven days in any case. Doctors of all grades fear for the nhs not themselves. The strike has become inevitable because of the mendacious purposeful failure of those in power to listen to the workforce. " Exactly this. The current workforce can only cover a seven day emergency plus five day elective service by working themselves into the ground and working clearly excessive hours. How do the same [or as it would end up LESS] staff cover everything for a full seven days? As the yanks would say...do the math! And all of this on a reduced total pay budget....that is actually what the "new contract" means! | |||
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"Ok be civil or the debate just gets lost in the argument over who called who what" *pulls Rugger's pigtails* | |||
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"The main issue, rather than being individual conditions, is that the plans detailed for seven day routine work would cause the current 5 day system to crumble further because of financial and staff shortages. It would become more not less dangerous. Emergencies are dealt with for seven days in any case. Doctors of all grades fear for the nhs not themselves. The strike has become inevitable because of the mendacious purposeful failure of those in power to listen to the workforce. Exactly this. The current workforce can only cover a seven day emergency plus five day elective service by working themselves into the ground and working clearly excessive hours. How do the same [or as it would end up LESS] staff cover everything for a full seven days? As the yanks would say...do the math! And all of this on a reduced total pay budget....that is actually what the "new contract" means!" | |||
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"Straight out of Monday to Friday university y " Thats not how it works. | |||
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"Ok be civil or the debate just gets lost in the argument over who called who what *pulls Rugger's pigtails*" * blows raspberry *  | |||
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"Straight out of Monday to Friday university y Thats not how it works." No, when I was at university I always had at least one day of the week without lectures as well as the weekends.
(mind you, those spare days were when I worked my arse off) | |||
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"Ok I admit my opening post was a knee jerk A badly throughout post However I do strongly disagree with strike action And she actually admitted to calling me a fool Why do you disagree with the strike action, regardless of thiss comment your contempt for the junior doctors was clear in your opening post/ I disagree because I can Democracy It's a forum where I can put what the hell I want As its my opinion I'm not asking anyone to agree So why shouldn't they strike? Are you saying you agree with Hunt? If so why? Instead of angry insults in your opening post you give us some genuine opinions?" | |||
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"I must admit it utterly baffles me Why they get into a job When they are fully aware of those conditions, they're allegedly educated people, so surely the would know a little about the working conditions, expectations, pay scale and hours..... But then moan about it and go on strike after they've gone into the profession?!?! It's a pretty simpleton move in my opinion... It's not just limited to Dr's Teachers Firefighters Police etc etc etc. Perhaps if they didn't go into the job at all. A huge shortage would perhaps drive the government to change conditions to attract people to go into the profession. It's a bit like joining the army then going on strike because you have to go into combat zones, or wear green!
They went into the job fully aware of the conditions. After years of education and training. The government are now attempting to change those conditions. They're not moaning about something they didn't know about before. This is new.
What is the government trying to change? Extending hours? Reducing pay?
If you really have to ask that, what did you base your previous post on?
Baffles me that someone could offer an opinion without knowing even the most basic of facts relating to what they are talking about "Baffles me that you insinuate that I don't know the basic facts based on zero knowledge of me. I know full well the profession. And I am more than informed enough to have an opinion. I'm neither going to validate or justify myself. As yet no one has actually quoted exactly what directives are changing, and I am unaware of such. Hence my question about what is changing, as I wondered if I had missed something. Excuse me for asking..... | |||
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" Instead of angry insults in your opening post you give us some genuine opinions?" Where were there insults? I thought he gave his opinion. | |||
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"Ok be civil or the debate just gets lost in the argument over who called who what *pulls Rugger's pigtails* * blows raspberry * "Just delete it I didn't post this to be insulted I thought it was about opinions Everyone is right Except me Nasty nasty forumites Oooh lets see what the popular opinion is and run with that That way I don't get bullied by cyber trolls | |||
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" Instead of angry insults in your opening post you give us some genuine opinions? Where were there insults? I thought he gave his opinion." Thank you | |||
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"And hopefully nurses will be next. They are definitely next on Hunt's hit list along with AHP's. Just to clarify for striking rather than being on his hit list. We knew what you meant " | |||
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"Ok be civil or the debate just gets lost in the argument over who called who what *pulls Rugger's pigtails* * blows raspberry *
Just delete it
I didn't post this to be insulted
I thought it was about opinions
Everyone is right
Except me
Nasty nasty forumites
Oooh lets see what the popular opinion is and run with that
That way I don't get bullied by cyber trolls"Now you are sounding silly....I have asked people to be civil, let me worry about it if anyone decides not to and the debate can carry on. | |||
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"Ok I admit my opening post was a knee jerk A badly throughout post However I do strongly disagree with strike action And she actually admitted to calling me a fool Why do you disagree with the strike action, regardless of thiss comment your contempt for the junior doctors was clear in your opening post/ I disagree because I can Democracy So why shouldn't they strike? Are you saying you agree with Hunt? If so why? Instead of angry insults in your opening post you give us some genuine opinions?\ It's a forum where I can put what the hell I want As its my opinion I'm not asking anyone to agree " I;ve sorted the quote out
Of course you can disagree with the strike. I'm just interested why? | |||
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" Instead of angry insults in your opening post you give us some genuine opinions? Where were there insults? I thought he gave his opinion." The opening post is incredibly insulting to junior doctors | |||
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" Instead of angry insults in your opening post you give us some genuine opinions? Where were there insults? I thought he gave his opinion. The opening post is incredibly insulting to junior doctors" Really? | |||
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"The main issue, rather than being individual conditions, is that the plans detailed for seven day routine work would cause the current 5 day system to crumble further because of financial and staff shortages. It would become more not less dangerous. Emergencies are dealt with for seven days in any case. Doctors of all grades fear for the nhs not themselves. The strike has become inevitable because of the mendacious purposeful failure of those in power to listen to the workforce. Exactly this. The current workforce can only cover a seven day emergency plus five day elective service by working themselves into the ground and working clearly excessive hours. How do the same [or as it would end up LESS] staff cover everything for a full seven days? As the yanks would say...do the math! And all of this on a reduced total pay budget....that is actually what the "new contract" means!" This isn't particularly new though is it? Such plans were proposed quite some time ago, and "shelved" I say "shelved" because hasn't it been operating like this unofficially for some time now? Or am I quite mistaken? | |||
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" Instead of angry insults in your opening post you give us some genuine opinions? Where were there insults? I thought he gave his opinion. The opening post is incredibly insulting to junior doctors Really? "Yes really. An insult doesnlt have to be abusive. | |||
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" Instead of angry insults in your opening post you give us some genuine opinions? Where were there insults? I thought he gave his opinion. The opening post is incredibly insulting to junior doctors" Really? May I quote you? "Baffles me that someone could offer an opinion without knowing even the most basic of facts relating to what they are talking about, | |||
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"Junior doesn't mean young. Just that they're not a consultant yet." | |||
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"The main issue, rather than being individual conditions, is that the plans detailed for seven day routine work would cause the current 5 day system to crumble further because of financial and staff shortages. It would become more not less dangerous. Emergencies are dealt with for seven days in any case. Doctors of all grades fear for the nhs not themselves. The strike has become inevitable because of the mendacious purposeful failure of those in power to listen to the workforce. Exactly this. The current workforce can only cover a seven day emergency plus five day elective service by working themselves into the ground and working clearly excessive hours. How do the same [or as it would end up LESS] staff cover everything for a full seven days? As the yanks would say...do the math! And all of this on a reduced total pay budget....that is actually what the "new contract" means! This isn't particularly new though is it? Such plans were proposed quite some time ago, and "shelved" I say "shelved" because hasn't it been operating like this unofficially for some time now? Or am I quite mistaken? " You are completely mistaken. | |||
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" Instead of angry insults in your opening post you give us some genuine opinions? Where were there insults? I thought he gave his opinion. The opening post is incredibly insulting to junior doctors Really?
Yes really. An insult doesnlt have to be abusive. "It has to be insulting though. | |||
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" Instead of angry insults in your opening post you give us some genuine opinions? Where were there insults? I thought he gave his opinion. The opening post is incredibly insulting to junior doctors Really?
Yes really. An insult doesnlt have to be abusive.
It has to be insulting though. "And by painting a picture that is so far from the truth it is insulting | |||
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"The main issue, rather than being individual conditions, is that the plans detailed for seven day routine work would cause the current 5 day system to crumble further because of financial and staff shortages. It would become more not less dangerous. Emergencies are dealt with for seven days in any case. Doctors of all grades fear for the nhs not themselves. The strike has become inevitable because of the mendacious purposeful failure of those in power to listen to the workforce. Exactly this. The current workforce can only cover a seven day emergency plus five day elective service by working themselves into the ground and working clearly excessive hours. How do the same [or as it would end up LESS] staff cover everything for a full seven days? As the yanks would say...do the math! And all of this on a reduced total pay budget....that is actually what the "new contract" means! This isn't particularly new though is it? Such plans were proposed quite some time ago, and "shelved" I say "shelved" because hasn't it been operating like this unofficially for some time now? Or am I quite mistaken? You are completely mistaken." I may stand corrected then.. | |||
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" Instead of angry insults in your opening post you give us some genuine opinions? Where were there insults? I thought he gave his opinion. The opening post is incredibly insulting to junior doctors Really?
Yes really. An insult doesnlt have to be abusive.
It has to be insulting though.
And by painting a picture that is so far from the truth it is insulting
"Only to someone who is clutching at straws. As someone said up there, your post was more insulting ^^^^^ | |||
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"And hopefully nurses will be next. They are definitely next on Hunt's hit list along with AHP's." To think they have no qualms in doing this to the nhs once one of the greatest services in the world.. now all ruled from a office desk, they value money over health they only trained up the managers and pen pushers for what they can get out of the system along with knowing their destroying it no better than parasites and thats being nice. | |||
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" Instead of angry insults in your opening post you give us some genuine opinions? Where were there insults? I thought he gave his opinion. The opening post is incredibly insulting to junior doctors Really?
Yes really. An insult doesnlt have to be abusive.
It has to be insulting though.
And by painting a picture that is so far from the truth it is insulting
Only to someone who is clutching at straws.
As someone said up there, your post was more insulting ^^^^^"I'm not sure why you feel it is clutching at straws. There is no truth whatsoever in the opening post. How is making disparaing comments about people not an insult to them? You yourself have commented on how inaccurate part of that post is, even the OP has admitted it 'kneejerk' and 'ill thought out' but he stands by the sentiment of it. | |||
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"Ok I admit my opening post was a knee jerk A badly throughout post However I do strongly disagree with strike action And she actually admitted to calling me a fool " I've simply copied and pasted this from my earlier response, forgive my laziness; "Errrrrr no she didnt" | |||
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"Ok I admit my opening post was a knee jerk A badly throughout post However I do strongly disagree with strike action And she actually admitted to calling me a fool I've simply copied and pasted this from my earlier response, forgive my laziness; "Errrrrr no she didnt"" You need to see her other post Apology accepted | |||
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"Ok I admit my opening post was a knee jerk A badly throughout post However I do strongly disagree with strike action And she actually admitted to calling me a fool I've simply copied and pasted this from my earlier response, forgive my laziness; "Errrrrr no she didnt" You need to see her other post Apology accepted " BRB....... | |||
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"Ok I admit my opening post was a knee jerk A badly throughout post However I do strongly disagree with strike action And she actually admitted to calling me a fool I've simply copied and pasted this from my earlier response, forgive my laziness; "Errrrrr no she didnt" You need to see her other post Apology accepted BRB....... "As suspected, no you weren't. | |||
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"Ok I admit my opening post was a knee jerk A badly throughout post However I do strongly disagree with strike action And she actually admitted to calling me a fool " Why do you disagree with the strike action? What should they do instead? | |||
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"Anyway, re the strike, of course it's mostly about the money, but I fully support them in that and I'd quite like my doctors to be well paid, and paid more for choosing to work in some of the less glamorous specialties which have unsociable hours. If you believe that the government's case isn't wholly about money too, you're an even bigger fool. I have an opinion which differs to yours How does that make me a fool ?? Not so much the opinion itself as the way you expressed it in the opening post. I've heard convincing arguments against the strike, yours is not it. Should I ask your permission and maybe run it by you for your approval going forward? Not at all. But I'll reserve the right to call someone a fool for making a shallow and inherently foolish argument, if that's ok with you "Good god man Get a grip There it is | |||
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"Ok I admit my opening post was a knee jerk A badly throughout post However I do strongly disagree with strike action And she actually admitted to calling me a fool Why do you disagree with the strike action? What should they do instead? If we all downed tools because we don't like our terms and conditions of employment The country would collapse Say every sector went on strike for a week We would be gone " | |||
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" I'm not sure why you feel it is clutching at straws. There is no truth whatsoever in the opening post. How is making disparaing comments about people not an insult to them? You yourself have commented on how inaccurate part of that post is, even the OP has admitted it 'kneejerk' and 'ill thought out' but he stands by the sentiment of it. " Being inaccurate about something is not insulting someone, it just means you are not accurate. That was what I picked up on, not that he was insulting. There were insults you could have picked up along the way but I don't think you mentioned those and that was to the OP himself, instead you are being offended by something on behalf of a group of people who are in the news at the moment. I am sure every person who has been to Uni have had the same things said about them and a lot probably took what was said with a pinch of salt. | |||
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"Ok I admit my opening post was a knee jerk A badly throughout post However I do strongly disagree with strike action And she actually admitted to calling me a fool Why do you disagree with the strike action? What should they do instead? If we all downed tools because we don't like our terms and conditions of employment The country would collapse Say every sector went on strike for a week We would be gone " You never answered the question. I asked what they should do instead. And for your information I have been on strike to stand up for my rights, to improve pay and conditions and to protect my pension. I have lived through the strike action of the miners, firefighters, teachers, nurses, etc. We can't let the government walk over us and erode our rights. | |||
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"Ok I admit my opening post was a knee jerk A badly throughout post However I do strongly disagree with strike action And she actually admitted to calling me a fool Why do you disagree with the strike action? What should they do instead? If we all downed tools because we don't like our terms and conditions of employment The country would collapse Say every sector went on strike for a week We would be gone " This is where you demonstrate you're fundamentally clueless regarding what the strike is about. It's not about 'terms and conditions of employment'. The NHS is collapsing under the weight of cuts and staff are leaving in droves, not because of pay but because of the way they are treated and their frustrations at being able to provide acceptable care under the prevailing situation. | |||
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"Ok I admit my opening post was a knee jerk A badly throughout post However I do strongly disagree with strike action And she actually admitted to calling me a fool Why do you disagree with the strike action? What should they do instead? If we all downed tools because we don't like our terms and conditions of employment The country would collapse Say every sector went on strike for a week We would be gone This is where you demonstrate you're fundamentally clueless regarding what the strike is about. It's not about 'terms and conditions of employment'. The NHS is collapsing under the weight of cuts and staff are leaving in droves, not because of pay but because of the way they are treated and their frustrations at being able to provide acceptable care under the prevailing situation. " Oh I wish I was as smart as you If I was my opinions would be right and I could assume things on other peoples behalf and convey it in a really condescending manor I can dream | |||
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"Hands up who, given the similar position.....wouldn't fight for a better deal? And put lives at risk?" Why do they put lives at risk? Consultants cover | |||
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"Can I please make a suggestion to the small fee like the OP who don't understand why our junior doctors are striking. Go and read up why they are doing this. I back them 1 million percent. I've seen a junior doctor come to the end of a block of 5 nights, get a crash bleep to attend to a child, the said dr even though had finished shift and was due on a day shift the following day with colleagues stay at work and ultimately saved that child's life. When you finish your shift at work no doubt you clock off and leave. Junior Drs never clock off, when you are so involved with a patient and the care it's impossible to switch of. The sick person is always on your mind, I would also like to say everyone assumes a junior dr gets paid a fortune (they don't) once qualified they earn pretty much the same as a nurse who cares for the same patient. Every year following on from more exams and choosing a specialty they get a higher increment. They big bucks wages you assume they get only comes once they have become a consultant which could take decades. One of my close friends is a registrar and has been for 15 years he's been a qualified dr for 24 years he earns less per year than another friend who is the store manager at Tesco. How can you possibly comprihend that or say Drs only do it for the money. Jeremy cunt is on a one way road to trying to privatise the NHS and destroy a national institution. His first stop is with Drs who work selflessly and with so much passion for patient care. His next step will be us the nursing staff, he will cut our enhancements for unsociable hours and any overtime we work, we already don't get paid for breaks those breaks we so often don't take because the patient comes first. I challenge anyone who slates Drs and nurses to walk a day in there shoes. " The C bomb? Oh dear Did I mention wages ??? | |||
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"Hands up who, given the similar position.....wouldn't fight for a better deal? And put lives at risk? Why do they put lives at risk? Consultants cover " And they don't slready work long hours?? | |||
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" That's still not calling you a fool. " Drop it please | |||
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"Can I please make a suggestion to the small fee like the OP who don't understand why our junior doctors are striking. Go and read up why they are doing this. I back them 1 million percent. I've seen a junior doctor come to the end of a block of 5 nights, get a crash bleep to attend to a child, the said dr even though had finished shift and was due on a day shift the following day with colleagues stay at work and ultimately saved that child's life. When you finish your shift at work no doubt you clock off and leave. Junior Drs never clock off, when you are so involved with a patient and the care it's impossible to switch of. The sick person is always on your mind, I would also like to say everyone assumes a junior dr gets paid a fortune (they don't) once qualified they earn pretty much the same as a nurse who cares for the same patient. Every year following on from more exams and choosing a specialty they get a higher increment. They big bucks wages you assume they get only comes once they have become a consultant which could take decades. One of my close friends is a registrar and has been for 15 years he's been a qualified dr for 24 years he earns less per year than another friend who is the store manager at Tesco. How can you possibly comprihend that or say Drs only do it for the money. Jeremy cunt is on a one way road to trying to privatise the NHS and destroy a national institution. His first stop is with Drs who work selflessly and with so much passion for patient care. His next step will be us the nursing staff, he will cut our enhancements for unsociable hours and any overtime we work, we already don't get paid for breaks those breaks we so often don't take because the patient comes first. I challenge anyone who slates Drs and nurses to walk a day in there shoes. The C bomb? Oh dear Did I mention wages ???" It is a very thought provoking post, do you have any thoughts on it? | |||
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"Hands up who, given the similar position.....wouldn't fight for a better deal? And put lives at risk? Why do they put lives at risk? Consultants cover And they don't slready work long hours??" They do. And the fact that they do and are also willing to cover so their junior colleagues can make a point in possibly the only way remaining to them should tell you how they also feel about the steady erosion of the NHS. | |||
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" I back them 1 million percent. I've seen a junior doctor come to the end of a block of 5 nights, get a crash bleep to attend to a child, the said dr even though had finished shift and was due on a day shift the following day ." s ? I agree with the rest of your post but is this bit right? I didn't think that would be possible or allowed | |||
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"Hands up who, given the similar position.....wouldn't fight for a better deal? And put lives at risk? Why do they put lives at risk? Consultants cover And they don't slready work long hours??" Yep the c bomb because that is exactly what that man is. As for consultants you clearly have no idea how Drs work in a hospital for you to comment like that. No consultants don't work long hours theajority do 'normal' hours and on weekend they come in for ward rounds and then leave, it's those junior Drs that keep the hospital running. For a department like A&E there maybe 1 consultant covering on a weekend when during the week there maybe 7/8. | |||
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"Hands up who, given the similar position.....wouldn't fight for a better deal? And put lives at risk? Why do they put lives at risk? Consultants cover And they don't slready work long hours?? Yep the c bomb because that is exactly what that man is. As for consultants you clearly have no idea how Drs work in a hospital for you to comment like that. No consultants don't work long hours theajority do 'normal' hours and on weekend they come in for ward rounds and then leave, it's those junior Drs that keep the hospital running. For a department like A&E there maybe 1 consultant covering on a weekend when during the week there maybe 7/8. " Well You know everything You got me Well done | |||
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"Hands up who, given the similar position.....wouldn't fight for a better deal? And put lives at risk? Why do they put lives at risk? Consultants cover And they don't slready work long hours?? Yep the c bomb because that is exactly what that man is. As for consultants you clearly have no idea how Drs work in a hospital for you to comment like that. No consultants don't work long hours theajority do 'normal' hours and on weekend they come in for ward rounds and then leave, it's those junior Drs that keep the hospital running. For a department like A&E there maybe 1 consultant covering on a weekend when during the week there maybe 7/8. Well You know everything You got me Well done " Stop acting like a smart arse and trying to belittle people. I don't know everything far from it I learnt something new every day, however I did until last week work for the NHS so my social circle are Drs and nurses. Those Drs taught me how to be compassionate, how to hold a family together and support them while having been told there child has cancer. How to spot a child that was deteriorating when sick I could never thank my dr friends enough, all those teaching sessions while working a night shift when rather than grabbing a couple of hours sleep they invested time to educate me. | |||
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"Hands up who, given the similar position.....wouldn't fight for a better deal? And put lives at risk? Why do they put lives at risk? Consultants cover And they don't slready work long hours?? Yep the c bomb because that is exactly what that man is. As for consultants you clearly have no idea how Drs work in a hospital for you to comment like that. No consultants don't work long hours theajority do 'normal' hours and on weekend they come in for ward rounds and then leave, it's those junior Drs that keep the hospital running. For a department like A&E there maybe 1 consultant covering on a weekend when during the week there maybe 7/8. Well You know everything You got me Well done Stop acting like a smart arse and trying to belittle people. I don't know everything far from it I learnt something new every day, however I did until last week work for the NHS so my social circle are Drs and nurses. Those Drs taught me how to be compassionate, how to hold a family together and support them while having been told there child has cancer. How to spot a child that was deteriorating when sick I could never thank my dr friends enough, all those teaching sessions while working a night shift when rather than grabbing a couple of hours sleep they invested time to educate me. " Smart arse .... Belittle ? Pot kettle black | |||
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"Hands up who, given the similar position.....wouldn't fight for a better deal? And put lives at risk? Why do they put lives at risk? Consultants cover And they don't slready work long hours?? Yep the c bomb because that is exactly what that man is. As for consultants you clearly have no idea how Drs work in a hospital for you to comment like that. No consultants don't work long hours theajority do 'normal' hours and on weekend they come in for ward rounds and then leave, it's those junior Drs that keep the hospital running. For a department like A&E there maybe 1 consultant covering on a weekend when during the week there maybe 7/8. Well You know everything You got me Well done Stop acting like a smart arse and trying to belittle people. I don't know everything far from it I learnt something new every day, however I did until last week work for the NHS so my social circle are Drs and nurses. Those Drs taught me how to be compassionate, how to hold a family together and support them while having been told there child has cancer. How to spot a child that was deteriorating when sick I could never thank my dr friends enough, all those teaching sessions while working a night shift when rather than grabbing a couple of hours sleep they invested time to educate me. Smart arse .... Belittle ? Pot kettle black " I don't think it's pot kettle at all I mearly pointed out why I hole heartedly support them. It's obvious you can't handle an adult debate as per above with the whole fool thing. You seem to just pick at things rather than enter your reasoning in a adult manner. | |||
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"Hands up who, given the similar position.....wouldn't fight for a better deal? And put lives at risk? Why do they put lives at risk? Consultants cover And they don't slready work long hours?? Yep the c bomb because that is exactly what that man is. As for consultants you clearly have no idea how Drs work in a hospital for you to comment like that. No consultants don't work long hours theajority do 'normal' hours and on weekend they come in for ward rounds and then leave, it's those junior Drs that keep the hospital running. For a department like A&E there maybe 1 consultant covering on a weekend when during the week there maybe 7/8. Well You know everything You got me Well done Stop acting like a smart arse and trying to belittle people. I don't know everything far from it I learnt something new every day, however I did until last week work for the NHS so my social circle are Drs and nurses. Those Drs taught me how to be compassionate, how to hold a family together and support them while having been told there child has cancer. How to spot a child that was deteriorating when sick I could never thank my dr friends enough, all those teaching sessions while working a night shift when rather than grabbing a couple of hours sleep they invested time to educate me. Smart arse .... Belittle ? Pot kettle black I don't think it's pot kettle at all I mearly pointed out why I hole heartedly support them. It's obvious you can't handle an adult debate as per above with the whole fool thing. You seem to just pick at things rather than enter your reasoning in a adult manner. " You assume way to much darling | |||
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