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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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So the government spent £400m to try and turn around 120,000 "neighbours from hell". They then claimed 98.9% of them had been turned around and allocated another £900m to tackle the 400,000 neighbours not quite from hell but close.
However, anyone who has even done anything with people knows that 98.9% success is suspicious, especially for the bargain price of £3.3k per family. Apparently a report is circulating that says the scheme had "no discernible" effect on unemployment, truancy or crime - which are collectively known as 'the ills of the ghetto'. Statistical significance is a benchmark set at 5% so government claims 98.9% success, independent report says less than 5%.
Apparently it's due to extremely vague success criteria and councils getting paid when they declare a family "turned around" rather than meeting hard, objective criteria.
I think the 98.9% vrs 5% highlights that politicians deny objective reality. Do you? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I think they've left it too long to help some there now third generation layabouts, it's all they've ever known....
I think pouring money into solving that problem is a complete waste of resources... I think the key maybe to focus on their young children not turning into the fuckwits their parents are. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I think they've left it too long to help some there now third generation layabouts, it's all they've ever known....
I think pouring money into solving that problem is a complete waste of resources... I think the key maybe to focus on their young children not turning into the fuckwits their parents are."
But let's be honest, £3.3k per family is not pouring money into it. I mean seriously, what exactly can you do for £3.3k? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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You know, I'd be very interested to know which companies are being paid in regards to this scheme. I'm sure someone will be making a pretty penny off the back of this though maybe I'm too much of a sceptic. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"You know, I'd be very interested to know which companies are being paid in regards to this scheme. I'm sure someone will be making a pretty penny off the back of this though maybe I'm too much of a sceptic."
Again, how much money can you make off £3.3k per family?
If you look at the major government contractors (e.g. serco, Babcock, G4S) all of them have below average profit margins. |
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I had a family from hell living near me years ago just after I left the forces, their were out of control gang thugs who everyone (including the police) in the town was frightened of.
4 of them turned up my new home armed with a machete and clubs to 'tax' me. As the police refused to do anything (their word against mine). I made a few calls and a little later the family got a visit from some very angry men who introduced them to the reality of what its like to be terrorised.
The family left the town that night...
The only thing that really works with gangsters is fear. Bribery only encourages them and others to continue their antisocial behaviour. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I had a family from hell living near me years ago just after I left the forces, their were out of control gang thugs who everyone (including the police) in the town was frightened of.
4 of them turned up my new home armed with a machete and clubs to 'tax' me. As the police refused to do anything (their word against mine). I made a few calls and a little later the family got a visit from some very angry men who introduced them to the reality of what its like to be terrorised.
The family left the town that night...
The only thing that really works with gangsters is fear. Bribery only encourages them and others to continue their antisocial behaviour."
But in truth that's what our sissy society has boiled down to - get your own protection or suffer in silence. They don't have this problem in other countries where people actually fear prison. |
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"But in truth that's what our sissy society has boiled down to - get your own protection or suffer in silence. They don't have this problem in other countries where people actually fear prison. "
I think that unfortunately there will always be those who do not fear prison no matter how harsh, and that those living in harsh conditions are further conditioned to behave harshly when given the freedom to act as they will.
I believe that the only way to make the most violent conform to society is to use swift and overwhelming violence when they misbehave.
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"But in truth that's what our sissy society has boiled down to - get your own protection or suffer in silence. They don't have this problem in other countries where people actually fear prison.
I think that unfortunately there will always be those who do not fear prison no matter how harsh, and that those living in harsh conditions are further conditioned to behave harshly when given the freedom to act as they will.
I believe that the only way to make the most violent conform to society is to use swift and overwhelming violence when they misbehave.
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I agree with that but if you take China for example then you just don't get these sorts of people. Unless you have a job then there is no welfare so everyone makes every reasonable effort to work. When you have to hold down a job then you just can't act like them. China does have gangastas but they don't tend to be your neighbours from hell. |
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"I agree with that but if you take China for example then you just don't get these sorts of people. Unless you have a job then there is no welfare so everyone makes every reasonable effort to work. When you have to hold down a job then you just can't act like them. China does have gangastas but they don't tend to be your neighbours from hell. "
I think you may be very wrong about China. One of my brothers has spent a lot of time working in parts of China not usually seen by 'outsiders', he does not pain a pleasant picture life there. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I agree with that but if you take China for example then you just don't get these sorts of people. Unless you have a job then there is no welfare so everyone makes every reasonable effort to work. When you have to hold down a job then you just can't act like them. China does have gangastas but they don't tend to be your neighbours from hell.
I think you may be very wrong about China. One of my brothers has spent a lot of time working in parts of China not usually seen by 'outsiders', he does not pain a pleasant picture life there. "
Well one of us lived there for 25 years, half our family is still there and we go back every year... I wouldn't say the countryside is especially nice, but im talking about a very specific problem rather than painting it as a paradise. I've never seen a chav in China and I can't really imagine how they would survive? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I think they've left it too long to help some there now third generation layabouts, it's all they've ever known....
I think pouring money into solving that problem is a complete waste of resources... I think the key maybe to focus on their young children not turning into the fuckwits their parents are."
If we assume the families are evenly distributed across the country, then the average UK salary is £27k a year. Let's say the cost of employing that person is double their salary for overheads, head office etc and then you have a budget of £3.3k per family. The net result is that you can allocate 15 days of a person's time to help them out.
I'd love to know what magical things a person can do in 15 days to turnaround a family that has probably been is disarray for decades!! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I think they've left it too long to help some there now third generation layabouts, it's all they've ever known....
I think pouring money into solving that problem is a complete waste of resources... I think the key maybe to focus on their young children not turning into the fuckwits their parents are.
But let's be honest, £3.3k per family is not pouring money into it. I mean seriously, what exactly can you do for £3.3k?"
3300 bottles of glue/lighter gas from Poundland. Should keep them quiet for a couple of weeks.  |
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"Well one of us lived there for 25 years, half our family is still there and we go back every year... I wouldn't say the countryside is especially nice, but im talking about a very specific problem rather than painting it as a paradise. I've never seen a chav in China and I can't really imagine how they would survive? "
I think I may have misunderstood your first post. But according to my brother who spent a lot of time commissioning plant in paper mills outside the major cities in what were essentially work camps life was not only cheap but extremely violent. But when he was in the Malaysian interior he had 24 hour army protection because the friendly locals were not so friendly when the sun went down. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Well one of us lived there for 25 years, half our family is still there and we go back every year... I wouldn't say the countryside is especially nice, but im talking about a very specific problem rather than painting it as a paradise. I've never seen a chav in China and I can't really imagine how they would survive?
I think I may have misunderstood your first post. But according to my brother who spent a lot of time commissioning plant in paper mills outside the major cities in what were essentially work camps life was not only cheap but extremely violent. But when he was in the Malaysian interior he had 24 hour army protection because the friendly locals were not so friendly when the sun went down. "
There are a lot of poorly educated people that can easily be whipped up into a frenzy and used for political objectives or those of an organised gang.
But I've never witnessed groups of people deliberately causing misery for people out of sheer boredom. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Another stupid scheme .With no results to show for the money. However how many heads will roll for the lies they have told.Non they will pat themselves on the back and tell us lessons have been learned.
As they pass us by in their new Range rover bought with company money.  |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Another stupid scheme .With no results to show for the money. However how many heads will roll for the lies they have told.Non they will pat themselves on the back and tell us lessons have been learned.
As they pass us by in their new Range rover bought with company money. "
That's another thing, heads rolling seems to mean 'resigning and then being re-hired in a new role three months later'. What ever happened to falling on your sword? |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
These families suck up so many resources in terms of council support, NHS support, police, schools etc. etc. But nothing seems to improve for them, their lives don't get turned around and the resourses continue to be poured in.
The idea of the troubled families scheme is a good one, but the government seem to have messed it up. I think Cameron was great at the headlines "greenest party ever" "northern powerhouse" "troubled families" "big society" but there was never any substance behind it. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"These families suck up so many resources in terms of council support, NHS support, police, schools etc. etc. But nothing seems to improve for them, their lives don't get turned around and the resourses continue to be poured in.
The idea of the troubled families scheme is a good one, but the government seem to have messed it up. I think Cameron was great at the headlines "greenest party ever" "northern powerhouse" "troubled families" "big society" but there was never any substance behind it. "
Yes that's why I liked him. He talks an excellent game and delivers virtually nothing. Politicians generally make things worse so they less they actually change then the fewer unintended consequences there will be. Of course they need to look like they are doing something in order to get elected so it's important to do both talk a lot and deliver nothing. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Its a little club. they pat each other on the back and say what a good job we have done. Then interview each other for the next project not forgetting the appropriate pay rise. |
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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
It was a bonkers vanity project scheme because *they* had identified that the problems were with just a small number of families.
The outcomes were vague and payment by results with no definition of an acceptable result made it easy for local authorities to claim they had changed those families. All without doing anything meaningful that might make a difference.
Bonkers and then they claimed it as a success.
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Was it actually local authorities? Or contracted out to a private company?"
It doesn't really say but it implies the council had the money to spend as they saw fit which is guess would have gone to a mixture of public and private organisations. There certainly was no prime contractor from the private sector and for £3.3k a family I'm not sure any private company would have been very interested. |
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