FabSwingers.com > Forums > Politics > The problem of Islamic State
The problem of Islamic State
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"Three things:- . 1/ we all agree that so-called Islamic State is directly responsible for an inspires horrific acts of brutality and terror across the world . 2/ I do not wish to conflate so-called Islamic State with Islam; it is a perversion of that religion . 3/ So, in all seriousness how is IS to be destroyed when it exists across multiple states and borders, on the web and in the minds of the disenfranchised and disturbed? . Open to sensible ideas... What is to be done? " Sorry but it's a very western thing to get yourself in shit and then look for 'creative solutions' to get out of shit. I don't see how we can possibly defeat ISIS until we acknowledge where they came from and some people are held accountable for that, starting with Paul Bremer. | |||
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"Can I disagree with number 1? Yes they are directly responsible for the atrocities in their own territory, but the terrorist attacks in the West have only been inspired by, not directly coordinated by IS. " Yeah but Charles Mason was convicted for that | |||
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"So then, how to sort out Islamic State, well I would do it using an international coalition using a mixture of hard and soft power. From the UK that would be hard power in the form of the 3rd UK Division with supplemented with additional units to include air power. Soft power would be lead by 77th Brigade, making sure that it was an integrated mission taking a cross governmental approach including the FCO, DfID etc. 51st Infantry Brigade would have to ramp up their defence engagement in the area, building the capacity and resilience of the national armies to stop IS coming back. Using the principle of conflict as politics as espoused by Emile Simpson I would ensure that the conflict was extremely focused on achieving the strategic objectives, rather than focused on tactical victories which can actually harm the overall strategy. After the fighting had stopped I think massive investment in the region will be needed so that people can see a bettering of their lives and the lives of their children. I would also look at the political structure in the region and make sure that all stakeholders were engaged, even if that meant having to deal with some of the nasty people. I would also have to look at territorial disputes and see if the borders that the West drew 100 years ago were still fit for purpose. Thats what I would do anyway." So pretty much the opposite of what happened in Iraq then? | |||
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"I don't think IS is a threat to the west ..the threats to the west comes from home grown terrorist and islamaphobia,segregation,poverty,racism all play a big role in grooming home grown terrorist " It does not help that the UK lets people preach hate on the streets in the name of religion. I know we have free speech but when people openly preach violence then that's s a bit more than just free speech and should be stopped. | |||
"I don't think IS is a threat to the west ..the threats to the west comes from home grown terrorist and islamaphobia,segregation,poverty,racism all play a big role in grooming home grown terrorist It does not help that the UK lets people preach hate on the streets in the name of religion. I know we have free speech but when people openly preach violence then that's s a bit more than just free speech and should be stopped." I think you'll find that the hate speech is coming fron social media rather than mosques. | |||
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"I don't think mosques are the real problem I have nothing against them or the people who attend them it's thier religion and nothing to do with what I believe. It does happen quite a bit in Birmingham and other city's leaflets ect but I do agree it's all over social media and its up to others to report anything out of order. " I think the evidence shows universities are more of a problem than mosques!! | |||
"You defeat an ideology by education. Hatred, separation and division has never resolved any conflict in history and it won't happen this time either. All faith leaders need to join together and with state funding, they start to challenge the messages being delivered by Daesh. It is a regrettable consequence of what is happening in the world that science will also have to come to play to debunk many of the fundamental religious beliefs that many of the warped radical preachers promote. We are not going to defeat this kind of terror by killing more and more people. Selective targeting - yes, but overall religious leaders, scientists and politicians need to start using the Internet and all forms of media better than the terrorists." Agreed, not only this but politicians need to ensure that there are opportunities within a meritocratic, democratic society, and that race religion and skin colour should not limit someone, whether it is in full time or part time education or work. | |||
"I don't think IS is a threat to the west ..the threats to the west comes from home grown terrorist and islamaphobia,segregation,poverty,racism all play a big role in grooming home grown terrorist It does not help that the UK lets people preach hate on the streets in the name of religion. I know we have free speech but when people openly preach violence then that's s a bit more than just free speech and should be stopped." Agreed, there is a limit to what kind of free speech society can tolerate. The issue is we would have to crack down on al forms of hate speech, including racism or xenophobia from some 'native britons'. It wouldn't go down well, they would see punishment for using hate speech against hate speech, or radicalism against radicalism, as a restriction of their freedom of speech | |||
"Sorry but it's a very western thing to get yourself in shit and then look for 'creative solutions' to get out of shit. I don't see how we can possibly defeat ISIS until we acknowledge where they came from and some people are held accountable for that, starting with Paul Bremer." There is the world as we would like it to be, and then there is the world as it is. We can argue about who started what and when... But what CAN be done NOW? This debate is academic while things such as these occur on a daily basis. We might want to consider these atrocities when we are fearful of our own security in the light of recent events in France and Germany... . Forty-four people have been killed in a massive bombing in the Kurdish-controlled city of Qamishli in north-east Syria, Syrian state TV reports. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-36902604 . Aleppo: Is besieged Syrian city facing last gasp? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-36853689 . Iraq car bomb kills 17 in Khalis, in attack claimed by IS http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-36881823 . Baghdad bomb blast: 'Islamic State behind attack' that kills 20 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-36878320 . The site of one of the deadliest attacks to ever hit Iraq has been turned into a shrine to the dead. Two hundred and ninety-two people were killed by a suicide bomber in Baghdad's Karrada district. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-36900997 . Aid agencies say urgent help is needed for more than 85,000 Syrian refugees stuck in "no-man's land" by their country's border with Jordan. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-36893810 . These are just from the last week | |||
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"Sorry but it's a very western thing to get yourself in shit and then look for 'creative solutions' to get out of shit. I don't see how we can possibly defeat ISIS until we acknowledge where they came from and some people are held accountable for that, starting with Paul Bremer. There is the world as we would like it to be, and then there is the world as it is. We can argue about who started what and when... But what CAN be done NOW? " This is the typical response from people that want to put a plaster on a broken leg. The systems that created the problem cannot be used to solve the problem. Those who fail to learn from the past will repeat it. Sorry you don't like the answer but look at Rwanda if you want to learn how to 'unfuck' a country and see what they did. | |||
"Sorry, I find the whole subject very frustrating. " But you started the thread! | |||
"Sorry, I find the whole subject very frustrating. But you started the thread!" I know. I need a few free days to think about it but wondered if anyone might a starter for 10... | |||
"Sorry but it's a very western thing to get yourself in shit and then look for 'creative solutions' to get out of shit. I don't see how we can possibly defeat ISIS until we acknowledge where they came from and some people are held accountable for that, starting with Paul Bremer. There is the world as we would like it to be, and then there is the world as it is. We can argue about who started what and when... But what CAN be done NOW? This is the typical response from people that want to put a plaster on a broken leg. The systems that created the problem cannot be used to solve the problem. Those who fail to learn from the past will repeat it. Sorry you don't like the answer but look at Rwanda if you want to learn how to 'unfuck' a country and see what they did. " If humans fucked it up, they can un-fuck it. | |||
"Sorry but it's a very western thing to get yourself in shit and then look for 'creative solutions' to get out of shit. I don't see how we can possibly defeat ISIS until we acknowledge where they came from and some people are held accountable for that, starting with Paul Bremer. There is the world as we would like it to be, and then there is the world as it is. We can argue about who started what and when... But what CAN be done NOW? This is the typical response from people that want to put a plaster on a broken leg. The systems that created the problem cannot be used to solve the problem. Those who fail to learn from the past will repeat it. Sorry you don't like the answer but look at Rwanda if you want to learn how to 'unfuck' a country and see what they did. If humans fucked it up, they can un-fuck it. " Yes we can, by doing what Rwanda did | |||
"Three things:- . 1/ we all agree that so-called Islamic State is directly responsible for an inspires horrific acts of brutality and terror across the world . 2/ I do not wish to conflate so-called Islamic State with Islam; it is a perversion of that religion . 3/ So, in all seriousness how is IS to be destroyed when it exists across multiple states and borders, on the web and in the minds of the disenfranchised and disturbed? . Open to sensible ideas... What is to be done? " Expects to be vilified.. Different races, religions, cultures behave differently and have different expectations. How about we stop trying to integrate everyone and let those who are like-minded live together and stop interfering? | |||
"Three things:- . 1/ we all agree that so-called Islamic State is directly responsible for an inspires horrific acts of brutality and terror across the world . 2/ I do not wish to conflate so-called Islamic State with Islam; it is a perversion of that religion . 3/ So, in all seriousness how is IS to be destroyed when it exists across multiple states and borders, on the web and in the minds of the disenfranchised and disturbed? . Open to sensible ideas... What is to be done? Expects to be vilified.. Different races, religions, cultures behave differently and have different expectations. How about we stop trying to integrate everyone and let those who are like-minded live together and stop interfering?" That's not really how globalisation works though is it | |||
"Three things:- . 1/ we all agree that so-called Islamic State is directly responsible for an inspires horrific acts of brutality and terror across the world . 2/ I do not wish to conflate so-called Islamic State with Islam; it is a perversion of that religion . 3/ So, in all seriousness how is IS to be destroyed when it exists across multiple states and borders, on the web and in the minds of the disenfranchised and disturbed? . Open to sensible ideas... What is to be done? Expects to be vilified.. Different races, religions, cultures behave differently and have different expectations. How about we stop trying to integrate everyone and let those who are like-minded live together and stop interfering? That's not really how globalisation works though is it " Why is globalisation the way forward? | |||
"Yes we can, by doing what Rwanda did" Which was? | |||
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"Three things:- . 1/ we all agree that so-called Islamic State is directly responsible for an inspires horrific acts of brutality and terror across the world . 2/ I do not wish to conflate so-called Islamic State with Islam; it is a perversion of that religion . 3/ So, in all seriousness how is IS to be destroyed when it exists across multiple states and borders, on the web and in the minds of the disenfranchised and disturbed? . Open to sensible ideas... What is to be done? Expects to be vilified.. Different races, religions, cultures behave differently and have different expectations. How about we stop trying to integrate everyone and let those who are like-minded live together and stop interfering?" What do you mean by stop trying to integrate everyone? Are you talking about the millions of people living in the middle east? I dont see anyone trying to integrate them. Stop interfering? So you think we should just let them continue to kill each other. Maybe you should read up on R2P. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Responsibility_to_protect If someone was shelling your home with your family inside and one person said "we should stop them from shelling that house", how would you feel if a second person said "oh no, its in their culture, that's how they behave, we shouldn't interfere" | |||
"The problem is unemployed young men, often black or brown. Countries with high youth unemployment such as France are breeding grounds for those who spread hate. If you are young, feel alienated and discriminated against, then it's easy to believe the solution to all your problems is the "other". Be that white people, Christians or the establishment. In this fertile ground, fanaticism breeds. There is a nihilistic tendency in all men waiting to be tapped. The solution are jobs! It is no suprrise that France with its useless socialism has meant that youth unemployment is so high. And why there is so much terrorism. Frankly young men need a job, sex and a sport. If you give them that 99.9% of them are done. " Base. But true | |||
"Three things:- . 1/ we all agree that so-called Islamic State is directly responsible for an inspires horrific acts of brutality and terror across the world . 2/ I do not wish to conflate so-called Islamic State with Islam; it is a perversion of that religion . 3/ So, in all seriousness how is IS to be destroyed when it exists across multiple states and borders, on the web and in the minds of the disenfranchised and disturbed? . Open to sensible ideas... What is to be done? Expects to be vilified.. Different races, religions, cultures behave differently and have different expectations. How about we stop trying to integrate everyone and let those who are like-minded live together and stop interfering? That's not really how globalisation works though is it Why is globalisation the way forward? " Inertia? | |||
"Yes we can, by doing what Rwanda did Which was?" A truth and reconciliation commission so the past could be learnt from and not repeated. | |||
"The problem is unemployed young men, often black or brown. Countries with high youth unemployment such as France are breeding grounds for those who spread hate. If you are young, feel alienated and discriminated against, then it's easy to believe the solution to all your problems is the "other". Be that white people, Christians or the establishment. In this fertile ground, fanaticism breeds. There is a nihilistic tendency in all men waiting to be tapped. The solution are jobs! It is no suprrise that France with its useless socialism has meant that youth unemployment is so high. And why there is so much terrorism. Frankly young men need a job, sex and a sport. If you give them that 99.9% of them are done. " You called France a socialist country, well France is a capitalist country like most others and there lies part of the problem. The French government is no more socialist than Donald Trump, if it was then they wouldn't have the social problems and lack of opportunities that they currently have. | |||
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"Diplomacy does not work with terrorists or idealists becaus they are just not interested in listening or talking about it. IS wants what it wants and is not interested in what anyone else thinks! They see everyone else as blasphemers and say anyone who does not want to be in thier club should burn in hell fire and they are determind to help us on our way. They want an Islamic state world wide with everyone back in the dark ages all doing what we are told." That is why education is the only way to defeat the ideology. At the moment Daesh are using the Internet, social media and news channels far better than we who are being targeted. We all have to get better at challenging them and their prehistoric views. 24/7 news coverage that shows everything including the "press releases" of Daesh is not helping the fight. An example yesterday was how the media almost instantaneously republished the pictures of the two so called fighters who murdered the Priest. This glorifies their cause and gives them the fame in death that they could never have hoped to achieve in life. | |||
"Diplomacy does not work with terrorists or idealists becaus they are just not interested in listening or talking about it. IS wants what it wants and is not interested in what anyone else thinks! They see everyone else as blasphemers and say anyone who does not want to be in thier club should burn in hell fire and they are determind to help us on our way. They want an Islamic state world wide with everyone back in the dark ages all doing what we are told. That is why education is the only way to defeat the ideology. At the moment Daesh are using the Internet, social media and news channels far better than we who are being targeted. We all have to get better at challenging them and their prehistoric views. 24/7 news coverage that shows everything including the "press releases" of Daesh is not helping the fight. An example yesterday was how the media almost instantaneously republished the pictures of the two so called fighters who murdered the Priest. This glorifies their cause and gives them the fame in death that they could never have hoped to achieve in life." No offence but you are both wrong. ISIS is a business plain and simple. This is not my opinion, this is scentific fact based on research by world expert and Oxford professor Paul Collier in his study which you can read for yourselves online called "greed and grievance". The average ISIS member does not believe jack shit about Islam or a state. A few gullible, usually foreign born members do, but as an organisation they over whelmingly relies on paid mercenaries to make their money from oil and drugs trade. Like any business, if it stops making money then it's employees will run a mile, assuming there is something to run to of course. | |||
"Three things:- . 1/ we all agree that so-called Islamic State is directly responsible for an inspires horrific acts of brutality and terror across the world . 2/ I do not wish to conflate so-called Islamic State with Islam; it is a perversion of that religion . 3/ So, in all seriousness how is IS to be destroyed when it exists across multiple states and borders, on the web and in the minds of the disenfranchised and disturbed? . Open to sensible ideas... What is to be done? " All media should call them sissy and no one publicly should associate sissy with any religious belief | |||
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"It is a conumdrum i feel will plague us for many years to come this warped ideology. There are academics far more cleverer than me who are equally mithed. How ever, odd it has,nt spread to South america ye?? ( which i,m not wishing) a region that could,nt be more infidelic?? Also i fear it is an elaborate timeless rouse by western govts to allow this ISIS movement to gain a foothold. Why?? Better these Islamic middle eastern countries to fight, squabble, and economically supress. Than for them to prosper and worse still unify.Equally though third party shady proxy companies western arms dealers need a thearter of opps, and a market to to sell there wares.... Regretbly these terrorism act are probably regarded as acceptable collatoral damage. I know this will upset a few but thats how i see it." Well several of these middle east countries have very healthy economies now, Saudi Arabia has more GDP per head than the UK. Oman, Israel and UAE all do alright. The kind of conflicts ISIS are involved in are noise to western defence companies. There's no money in gun, rockets and ammo. Those are the kind of things you buy from Bulgaria, Iran or North Korea depending on your alligences. Western companies sell £100m typhoons and don't get out of bed for the kind of values ISIS can afford. PMFs are a seperate matter. | |||
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"overstepping the mark to prove a point? .... there's a huge difference between science based fact and evidence based theory " Touche. It is indeed the latter, but damn fine evidence if I do say so myself. | |||
"overstepping the mark to prove a point? .... there's a huge difference between science based fact and evidence based theory Touche. It is indeed the latter, but damn fine evidence if I do say so myself. " but just one theory out of thousands of confilcting theories by academics chasing well paid chairs in business sponsored commercial based eductaional institutions .... basically, turn out what the sponsors want and get to be boss of a faculty with commensurate pay packet | |||
"overstepping the mark to prove a point? .... there's a huge difference between science based fact and evidence based theory Touche. It is indeed the latter, but damn fine evidence if I do say so myself. but just one theory out of thousands of confilcting theories by academics chasing well paid chairs in business sponsored commercial based eductaional institutions .... basically, turn out what the sponsors want and get to be boss of a faculty with commensurate pay packet" Simply not true. Show me a counter theory that has even a quarter of the evidence supporting Colliers work (or don't waste your time because there isn't any) | |||
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"but just one theory out of thousands of confilcting theories by academics chasing well paid chairs in business sponsored commercial based eductaional institutions .... basically, turn out what the sponsors want and get to be boss of a faculty with commensurate pay packet Simply not true. " ireffutable fact as you know too well | |||
"Yes we can, by doing what Rwanda did Which was? A truth and reconciliation commission so the past could be learnt from and not repeated. " The so-called Islamic State of Syria/Iraq is a millenarian death cult that must eventually be crushed. Problem is it has, or claims, affiliates in 12 other countries and you can argue how far connected the people who kill, or claim to kill, in its name are simply disenfranchised, deranged or damaged individuals (the attacks in Belgium do seem to have a direct connection, the more recent ones in France & Germany do not, for instance)... BUT Any way you look at it - through IS's own publicity or the western press' coverage - it is a triumph of publicity and propaganda that disguises the fact that so-called Islamic State is in difficulty in the Levant. What's happening on the ground in Syria, Iraq, Libya, Yeman et al is an entirely different, horrific story that the west, and Russia and Iran and Saudi Arabia are making cluster fuck of. Truth and reconciliation? I'm thinking of something a little more proactive... I'll keep thinking... | |||
"Yes we can, by doing what Rwanda did Which was? A truth and reconciliation commission so the past could be learnt from and not repeated. The so-called Islamic State of Syria/Iraq is a millenarian death cult that must eventually be crushed. Problem is it has, or claims, affiliates in 12 other countries and you can argue how far connected the people who kill, or claim to kill, in its name are simply disenfranchised, deranged or damaged individuals (the attacks in Belgium do seem to have a direct connection, the more recent ones in France & Germany do not, for instance)... BUT Any way you look at it - through IS's own publicity or the western press' coverage - it is a triumph of publicity and propaganda that disguises the fact that so-called Islamic State is in difficulty in the Levant. What's happening on the ground in Syria, Iraq, Libya, Yeman et al is an entirely different, horrific story that the west, and Russia and Iran and Saudi Arabia are making cluster fuck of. Truth and reconciliation? I'm thinking of something a little more proactive... I'll keep thinking..." Lol!!! Not with ISIS, with the idiots like Paul Bremer who fucked up Iraq in the post-war 'reconstruction'. | |||
"Yes we can, by doing what Rwanda did Which was? A truth and reconciliation commission so the past could be learnt from and not repeated. The so-called Islamic State of Syria/Iraq is a millenarian death cult that must eventually be crushed. Problem is it has, or claims, affiliates in 12 other countries and you can argue how far connected the people who kill, or claim to kill, in its name are simply disenfranchised, deranged or damaged individuals (the attacks in Belgium do seem to have a direct connection, the more recent ones in France & Germany do not, for instance)... BUT Any way you look at it - through IS's own publicity or the western press' coverage - it is a triumph of publicity and propaganda that disguises the fact that so-called Islamic State is in difficulty in the Levant. What's happening on the ground in Syria, Iraq, Libya, Yeman et al is an entirely different, horrific story that the west, and Russia and Iran and Saudi Arabia are making cluster fuck of. Truth and reconciliation? I'm thinking of something a little more proactive... I'll keep thinking... Lol!!! Not with ISIS, with the idiots like Paul Bremer who fucked up Iraq in the post-war 'reconstruction'. " As I said, I'm less concerned with the who did what to whom and when, and more interested in good proposals for what can be done now | |||
"Yes we can, by doing what Rwanda did Which was? A truth and reconciliation commission so the past could be learnt from and not repeated. The so-called Islamic State of Syria/Iraq is a millenarian death cult that must eventually be crushed. Problem is it has, or claims, affiliates in 12 other countries and you can argue how far connected the people who kill, or claim to kill, in its name are simply disenfranchised, deranged or damaged individuals (the attacks in Belgium do seem to have a direct connection, the more recent ones in France & Germany do not, for instance)... BUT Any way you look at it - through IS's own publicity or the western press' coverage - it is a triumph of publicity and propaganda that disguises the fact that so-called Islamic State is in difficulty in the Levant. What's happening on the ground in Syria, Iraq, Libya, Yeman et al is an entirely different, horrific story that the west, and Russia and Iran and Saudi Arabia are making cluster fuck of. Truth and reconciliation? I'm thinking of something a little more proactive... I'll keep thinking... Lol!!! Not with ISIS, with the idiots like Paul Bremer who fucked up Iraq in the post-war 'reconstruction'. As I said, I'm less concerned with the who did what to whom and when, and more interested in good proposals for what can be done now" To make a silk purse out of a sow's ear, if the metaphor weren't offensive to Muslims | |||
"Yes we can, by doing what Rwanda did Which was? A truth and reconciliation commission so the past could be learnt from and not repeated. The so-called Islamic State of Syria/Iraq is a millenarian death cult that must eventually be crushed. Problem is it has, or claims, affiliates in 12 other countries and you can argue how far connected the people who kill, or claim to kill, in its name are simply disenfranchised, deranged or damaged individuals (the attacks in Belgium do seem to have a direct connection, the more recent ones in France & Germany do not, for instance)... BUT Any way you look at it - through IS's own publicity or the western press' coverage - it is a triumph of publicity and propaganda that disguises the fact that so-called Islamic State is in difficulty in the Levant. What's happening on the ground in Syria, Iraq, Libya, Yeman et al is an entirely different, horrific story that the west, and Russia and Iran and Saudi Arabia are making cluster fuck of. Truth and reconciliation? I'm thinking of something a little more proactive... I'll keep thinking... Lol!!! Not with ISIS, with the idiots like Paul Bremer who fucked up Iraq in the post-war 'reconstruction'. As I said, I'm less concerned with the who did what to whom and when, and more interested in good proposals for what can be done now To make a silk purse out of a sow's ear, if the metaphor weren't offensive to Muslims " As I said, you can't fix the problem that way. There's no accountability these days and it's ruined the system. | |||
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"Accountability? The Second World War only took 6 years! With political will, coordination and money, it's possible, surely?" Are you suggesting the war on terror has been under-funded and lacked attention? | |||
"Accountability? The Second World War only took 6 years! With political will, coordination and money, it's possible, surely? Are you suggesting the war on terror has been under-funded and lacked attention? " The war on abstract nouns? Surely not?! I'm trying to draw a distinction between that and so-called Islamic State. But the more I think about, the more it requires work on Syria, Iraq, Libya, Turkey, Lebanon, Egypt, the Gulf States... before we get to a co-ordinated response (ha ha) from Russia and the US... But. With the will and resources it is possible | |||
"Accountability? The Second World War only took 6 years! With political will, coordination and money, it's possible, surely? Are you suggesting the war on terror has been under-funded and lacked attention? " Yes, and erm... Yes! Although we have ploughed a HUGE amount of money into these wars, we have tried to do it on the cheap, with a relatively small footprint. Look at the UK in Helmand for example, battle groups based around an armoured intantry brigade that although may have 2,500 people, only has about 650 trigger pullers, all to cover an area the size of Wales, we could never achieve our strategic aims with those kind of numbers. The US had enough troops to take Baghdad, but not enough to stop lootings, keep the rule of law, secure munitions etc. There is no point in winning every tactical encounter if its not achieving your strategic aims. Or to put it another way, you can win every battle and still lose the war. Has it lacked attention? Hell Yes! Every Prime Minister and President wants to be a war time PM or Pres, but post war reconstruction isn't quite so sexy. We think that we can win with high technology, guided munitions, UAVs, night vision etc., but what you really need is guys on the ground, good intelligence, situational awareness and and understanding of the region. It also takes a concerted effort and focus on your strategic aim, for example in Afghanistan the aim was to establish the rule of law and ensure that the control of the central government extended right across the country. Instead we focused on killing as many Taliban as we could and counter narcotics. So to beat ISIS we need big sticks and big carrots. A hard hitting, large footprint of troops, followed by thorough reconstruction. | |||
"Accountability? The Second World War only took 6 years! With political will, coordination and money, it's possible, surely? Are you suggesting the war on terror has been under-funded and lacked attention? Yes, and erm... Yes! Although we have ploughed a HUGE amount of money into these wars, we have tried to do it on the cheap, with a relatively small footprint. Look at the UK in Helmand for example, battle groups based around an armoured intantry brigade that although may have 2,500 people, only has about 650 trigger pullers, all to cover an area the size of Wales, we could never achieve our strategic aims with those kind of numbers. The US had enough troops to take Baghdad, but not enough to stop lootings, keep the rule of law, secure munitions etc. There is no point in winning every tactical encounter if its not achieving your strategic aims. Or to put it another way, you can win every battle and still lose the war. Has it lacked attention? Hell Yes! Every Prime Minister and President wants to be a war time PM or Pres, but post war reconstruction isn't quite so sexy. We think that we can win with high technology, guided munitions, UAVs, night vision etc., but what you really need is guys on the ground, good intelligence, situational awareness and and understanding of the region. It also takes a concerted effort and focus on your strategic aim, for example in Afghanistan the aim was to establish the rule of law and ensure that the control of the central government extended right across the country. Instead we focused on killing as many Taliban as we could and counter narcotics. So to beat ISIS we need big sticks and big carrots. A hard hitting, large footprint of troops, followed by thorough reconstruction." I completely disagree. The money went on American contractors charging people out at £1,000 a day rather than using locals who would have frothed at the mouth at $100 a day. The military numbers are largely irrelevant. You can't kill an ideology with bullets. As long as there's poverty then there will be terrorism, you can't kill them all. As I say, the post-war reconstruction was more about lucrative contracts for campaign donors than eliminating poverty and fuck I sound like a hippy | |||
"Accountability? The Second World War only took 6 years! With political will, coordination and money, it's possible, surely? Are you suggesting the war on terror has been under-funded and lacked attention? Yes, and erm... Yes! Although we have ploughed a HUGE amount of money into these wars, we have tried to do it on the cheap, with a relatively small footprint. Look at the UK in Helmand for example, battle groups based around an armoured intantry brigade that although may have 2,500 people, only has about 650 trigger pullers, all to cover an area the size of Wales, we could never achieve our strategic aims with those kind of numbers. The US had enough troops to take Baghdad, but not enough to stop lootings, keep the rule of law, secure munitions etc. There is no point in winning every tactical encounter if its not achieving your strategic aims. Or to put it another way, you can win every battle and still lose the war. Has it lacked attention? Hell Yes! Every Prime Minister and President wants to be a war time PM or Pres, but post war reconstruction isn't quite so sexy. We think that we can win with high technology, guided munitions, UAVs, night vision etc., but what you really need is guys on the ground, good intelligence, situational awareness and and understanding of the region. It also takes a concerted effort and focus on your strategic aim, for example in Afghanistan the aim was to establish the rule of law and ensure that the control of the central government extended right across the country. Instead we focused on killing as many Taliban as we could and counter narcotics. So to beat ISIS we need big sticks and big carrots. A hard hitting, large footprint of troops, followed by thorough reconstruction. I completely disagree. The money went on American contractors charging people out at £1,000 a day rather than using locals who would have frothed at the mouth at $100 a day. The military numbers are largely irrelevant. You can't kill an ideology with bullets. As long as there's poverty then there will be terrorism, you can't kill them all. As I say, the post-war reconstruction was more about lucrative contracts for campaign donors than eliminating poverty and fuck I sound like a hippy" You need boots on the ground to maintain law and order, to stop extra judicial killings, armed gangs, illegal checkpoints, looting - especially military, para-military and police stockpiles. And then to train, monitor and support the local forces to take over these roles. Law and order has to have a local face, or it will never work. Military numbers are still very important. The reconstruction should also be done by locals, it shouldn't be about making money for western companies, it should be about employment and pride for the locals, if you build something for yourself, you treat it better. Military contractors in Iraq (like Blackwater) caused huge problems, they could kill with impunity and were not subject to local laws (were they even subject to military law?) foreigners killing locals with impunity never goes down well. Can you imagine what we would say if an SUV full of Iraqis shot up and killed a street full of Brits in London and weren't arrested or charged even though the authorities knew exactly who had done it? | |||
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"I don't think IS is a threat to the west ..the threats to the west comes from home grown terrorist and islamaphobia,segregation,poverty,racism all play a big role in grooming home grown terrorist It does not help that the UK lets people preach hate on the streets in the name of religion. I know we have free speech but when people openly preach violence then that's s a bit more than just free speech and should be stopped." I don't think you have free speech in this country. I'm an immigrant and I can tell you this for sure. You only have free speech in this country if you are an immigrant and are spouting hatred against the white English population. If a white English person says anything that highlights negatives in non native cultures then they get convicted of hate speech and thrown in jail, ostracised, lose their job etc. Example: radical islamists burning UK flags, shouting anti white racist slogans in public and the police just stand there and watch. I'd like to see what would happen if the reverse happened. Double standards anyone? What about when the Army had a homecoming parade in Luton and islamists were shouting hateful things and attacking soldiers? The police arrested the locals going to defence of the soldiers. You couldn't make it up! It's putting up with this sort of behaviour and letting them get away with it that has led to this proliferation. Just look at Anjem Choudhurys smug face when he says things against the UK government. He feels he can say anything with impunity, as do his followers. As someone who is middle eastern from a former British colony, most foreigners assume I hate white English people like they do, so they tell me the most racist anti white English hateful things freely, thinking I will agree with them. I don't. And its not a one off. I've lived here for many years now and I've heard this attitude from other immigrants countless times, especially Muslim Arabs, Pakistanis and Bangladeshis, many of whom literally hate white people, live in their own communities so they don't have to associate with the English and have no shame in supporting and sympathising with terrorists. Of course they would never admit that to a white person. They lie through their teeth. I've seen it happen multiple times. That is why you have home grown terror threats. Stop blaming yourself for the decision of foreigners to blow themselves up to kill the people of this country and harm it. The only thing you should blame yourselves for is letting them into the country and giving them citizenship. The biggest joke is giving them benefits too. Literally paying them while they openly hate you. They think you are a bunch of mugs and openly laugh about it. I'm not English and moved to the UK ten years ago but I'm honestly SHOCKED by the things the local population put up with. They wouldn't get away with it where I'm from. Seriously your political correctness will be what destroys this country. It's time people wake up and vote for parties which put the local indigenous population first (and by that I mean NOT Labour or the Lib Dems) You have built a country to be proud of over centuries. Britain is the envy of the world. Why else do you think so many people from around the world (including myself) chose to move here? Don't let a misguided sense of tolerance allow the intolerant to proliferate against the people of this country. As for ISIS? The last time we saw a fascist, hateful, racist, military organisation carry out ethnic cleansing and genocide on a mass scale the whole world went to war with them. It's time we stopped beating about the bush and did the same, and stopped financing them by supporting Saudi Arabia and Turkey. | |||
"I don't think IS is a threat to the west ..the threats to the west comes from home grown terrorist and islamaphobia,segregation,poverty,racism all play a big role in grooming home grown terrorist It does not help that the UK lets people preach hate on the streets in the name of religion. I know we have free speech but when people openly preach violence then that's s a bit more than just free speech and should be stopped. I don't think you have free speech in this country. I'm an immigrant and I can tell you this for sure. You only have free speech in this country if you are an immigrant and are spouting hatred against the white English population. If a white English person says anything that highlights negatives in non native cultures then they get convicted of hate speech and thrown in jail, ostracised, lose their job etc. Example: radical islamists burning UK flags, shouting anti white racist slogans in public and the police just stand there and watch. I'd like to see what would happen if the reverse happened. Double standards anyone? What about when the Army had a homecoming parade in Luton and islamists were shouting hateful things and attacking soldiers? The police arrested the locals going to defence of the soldiers. You couldn't make it up! It's putting up with this sort of behaviour and letting them get away with it that has led to this proliferation. Just look at Anjem Choudhurys smug face when he says things against the UK government. He feels he can say anything with impunity, as do his followers. As someone who is middle eastern from a former British colony, most foreigners assume I hate white English people like they do, so they tell me the most racist anti white English hateful things freely, thinking I will agree with them. I don't. And its not a one off. I've lived here for many years now and I've heard this attitude from other immigrants countless times, especially Muslim Arabs, Pakistanis and Bangladeshis, many of whom literally hate white people, live in their own communities so they don't have to associate with the English and have no shame in supporting and sympathising with terrorists. Of course they would never admit that to a white person. They lie through their teeth. I've seen it happen multiple times. That is why you have home grown terror threats. Stop blaming yourself for the decision of foreigners to blow themselves up to kill the people of this country and harm it. The only thing you should blame yourselves for is letting them into the country and giving them citizenship. The biggest joke is giving them benefits too. Literally paying them while they openly hate you. They think you are a bunch of mugs and openly laugh about it. I'm not English and moved to the UK ten years ago but I'm honestly SHOCKED by the things the local population put up with. They wouldn't get away with it where I'm from. Seriously your political correctness will be what destroys this country. It's time people wake up and vote for parties which put the local indigenous population first (and by that I mean NOT Labour or the Lib Dems) You have built a country to be proud of over centuries. Britain is the envy of the world. Why else do you think so many people from around the world (including myself) chose to move here? Don't let a misguided sense of tolerance allow the intolerant to proliferate against the people of this country. As for ISIS? The last time we saw a fascist, hateful, racist, military organisation carry out ethnic cleansing and genocide on a mass scale the whole world went to war with them. It's time we stopped beating about the bush and did the same, and stopped financing them by supporting Saudi Arabia and Turkey. " Thank you for that, honestly a refreshing change! | |||
"I don't think IS is a threat to the west ..the threats to the west comes from home grown terrorist and islamaphobia,segregation,poverty,racism all play a big role in grooming home grown terrorist It does not help that the UK lets people preach hate on the streets in the name of religion. I know we have free speech but when people openly preach violence then that's s a bit more than just free speech and should be stopped. I don't think you have free speech in this country. I'm an immigrant and I can tell you this for sure. You only have free speech in this country if you are an immigrant and are spouting hatred against the white English population. If a white English person says anything that highlights negatives in non native cultures then they get convicted of hate speech and thrown in jail, ostracised, lose their job etc. Example: radical islamists burning UK flags, shouting anti white racist slogans in public and the police just stand there and watch. I'd like to see what would happen if the reverse happened. Double standards anyone? What about when the Army had a homecoming parade in Luton and islamists were shouting hateful things and attacking soldiers? The police arrested the locals going to defence of the soldiers. You couldn't make it up! It's putting up with this sort of behaviour and letting them get away with it that has led to this proliferation. Just look at Anjem Choudhurys smug face when he says things against the UK government. He feels he can say anything with impunity, as do his followers. As someone who is middle eastern from a former British colony, most foreigners assume I hate white English people like they do, so they tell me the most racist anti white English hateful things freely, thinking I will agree with them. I don't. And its not a one off. I've lived here for many years now and I've heard this attitude from other immigrants countless times, especially Muslim Arabs, Pakistanis and Bangladeshis, many of whom literally hate white people, live in their own communities so they don't have to associate with the English and have no shame in supporting and sympathising with terrorists. Of course they would never admit that to a white person. They lie through their teeth. I've seen it happen multiple times. That is why you have home grown terror threats. Stop blaming yourself for the decision of foreigners to blow themselves up to kill the people of this country and harm it. The only thing you should blame yourselves for is letting them into the country and giving them citizenship. The biggest joke is giving them benefits too. Literally paying them while they openly hate you. They think you are a bunch of mugs and openly laugh about it. I'm not English and moved to the UK ten years ago but I'm honestly SHOCKED by the things the local population put up with. They wouldn't get away with it where I'm from. Seriously your political correctness will be what destroys this country. It's time people wake up and vote for parties which put the local indigenous population first (and by that I mean NOT Labour or the Lib Dems) You have built a country to be proud of over centuries. Britain is the envy of the world. Why else do you think so many people from around the world (including myself) chose to move here? Don't let a misguided sense of tolerance allow the intolerant to proliferate against the people of this country. As for ISIS? The last time we saw a fascist, hateful, racist, military organisation carry out ethnic cleansing and genocide on a mass scale the whole world went to war with them. It's time we stopped beating about the bush and did the same, and stopped financing them by supporting Saudi Arabia and Turkey. Thank you for that, honestly a refreshing change!" It makes me sad that you think it is a refreshing change. Do you know why? Because it means that actual English people (and by that I don't mean foreigners with a British passport or citizenship) are too afraid of the backlash they will face by speaking the TRUTH. As a result nobody is saying the truth. That is sad when a people are afraid of saying the truth to save their own culture. When I first arrived in London, I expected to see the stereotype of English people I had seen in television all my life. The dapper gentleman and delicate lady, the cheeky cockney, the hard working northern working class man, the carefree girls in discos and the quintessential English Rose. Instead I realised that instead of seeing cockney parades having a right knees up with pictures of the Queen and traditional English music in the east end, I saw poor bangladeshi Street markets, nobody speaking English, hijabs, veils and Islamic flags. This is replicated in Newham, Ilford, Barking and Tower Hamlets which is a stones throw away from the powerhouse of the City of London. English culture and people have been completely lost in these areas. Cockney culture and speech will officially die out when the current generation die. When this many migrants from a drastically different culture form the majority of a population in a place, they have no need to either integrate or have any sympathy for the host country or its people. Are we really surprised that these areas are hotbeds for anti white/Christian hatred? And don't tell me its poverty and a lack of education. The Glasgow bombers were doctors. Hardly poor or uneducated were they? This has been replicated throughout Europe. So how did this Happen? Political reasons. It is becoming increasingly apparent that Labour, previously a staple of working class households up and down the country, has lost the white working class vote. So who is going to vote for them? Poor Immigrants. Is it any surprise that Labour has increasingly supported policies which favour immigration, and in addition using anti discrimination policies to house them? Think about it. That's why they are winning in majority Muslim / immigrant areas. Just look at Tower Hamlets reelecting the Muslim Mayor Lutfur Rahman DESPITE being thrown out of office due to corruption. And to prevent criticism of their policies they also made discussing anything to do with race or Islam a taboo which can cost you your job and get you thrown in jail. Rahman himself claimed islamophobia and racism when he was exposed for his rampant corruption and pro islamist anti white policies. The term "Islamophobia", which is the western legal version of Islamic blasphemy laws and which Muslim organisations have pushed to have enshrined in UK law, is the new term used to silence people who have genuine concerns about anything to do with the immigration or terrorism. We all know what the root cause is. But people have become afraid to talk about it and challenge it. It's a very effective tool which is now being indoctrinated in children in school and even used as a political tool in universities by Muslim Student organisations who invite racist extremist preachers under the banner of free speech but conveniently forget about that free speech and claim 'islamophobia' and 'safe spaces' when another society such invites someone to criticise radical Islam. Just YouTube the video of atheist and former Muslim Maryam Namazi who wanted to give a speech about blasphemy laws at Goldsmiths university to see the despicable behaviour by members of the Islamic society while she was speaking. Can you imagine what would have happened if those were white English students acting that way during a speech by a black speaker discussing slavery? Yet this behaviour is tolerated by universities out of fear of being islamophobic. It's the legacy of Labour's policies and (well meaning) but ultimately misguided liberals which have led to this problem. I should know because as a member of the lgbt community I also used to be very politically correct. I now realise my mistake. It may surprise you that I'm actually not a conservative (really, I'm not, I think their behind the scenes privatisation of industries including the NHS is appalling and treacherous) but the biggest threat to the UK is Labour, political correctness and it's pro immigration, pro islamist policies. Just look at the Corbyn policies, advisors and level of pro Islamic anti semitic hatred that is prevalent in that party. So how does this relate to ISIS? It is this apologist attitude and fear of being seen as islamaphobic which affects government policies. This has led to tolerance of mass migration, lack of integration and extremist ideology. And a fear of upsetting the Muslim world prevents intervention in destroying ISIS. As these people think that the Caliphate is supported by 'Allah' and it is his will that it will prevail and spread over the world and defeat the West, nothing could possibly send a stronger message than destroying them. Additionally a previous commentator was right. Many of their fighters are mercenaries who do it for money. So cut their money off, starting with Saudi Arabia, then Turkey and Pakistan. Financially and militarily supporting those nations who support our destruction is madness. | |||
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"Bush/Blair legacy is here in Europe now!" The growth of Radical Islam and violence to all non believers is not the fault of Bush and Blair, they were just the unfortunates in poor when it reached a critical mass. The real routes reach back to the emergence of fascism in the 1930's and the persecution and ostracization of the Jews world wide, the subsequent formation of Israel and unwillingness to find an equitable solution to the further problems that caused. The truth is that IS and Al Qaeda are just the latest (and most violent) iterations of a movement that started with Black September in 1970, and that if any single act is to be blamed for the position we find ourselves in today it has to be the Arab Leagues 'Khartoum Resolution' immediately following the Israeli victory in the 'six day war'. I have to add that I find it disturbing and very sad how so many are willing to accept the blame for others wrongs on behalf of their countrymen (and way of life) in order to score a cheap political point, and in so doing legitimise organisations whose reason to exist is our destruction and whose whole ethos is amoral. But carry on, blame Blair, blame Bush and don't forget that the USA is the 'Great Satan', the UK the 'Little Satan' and that Western education is 'harem'! | |||
"I don't think IS is a threat to the west ..the threats to the west comes from home grown terrorist and islamaphobia,segregation,poverty,racism all play a big role in grooming home grown terrorist It does not help that the UK lets people preach hate on the streets in the name of religion. I know we have free speech but when people openly preach violence then that's s a bit more than just free speech and should be stopped. I don't think you have free speech in this country. I'm an immigrant and I can tell you this for sure. You only have free speech in this country if you are an immigrant and are spouting hatred against the white English population. If a white English person says anything that highlights negatives in non native cultures then they get convicted of hate speech and thrown in jail, ostracised, lose their job etc. Example: radical islamists burning UK flags, shouting anti white racist slogans in public and the police just stand there and watch. I'd like to see what would happen if the reverse happened. Double standards anyone? What about when the Army had a homecoming parade in Luton and islamists were shouting hateful things and attacking soldiers? The police arrested the locals going to defence of the soldiers. You couldn't make it up! It's putting up with this sort of behaviour and letting them get away with it that has led to this proliferation. Just look at Anjem Choudhurys smug face when he says things against the UK government. He feels he can say anything with impunity, as do his followers. As someone who is middle eastern from a former British colony, most foreigners assume I hate white English people like they do, so they tell me the most racist anti white English hateful things freely, thinking I will agree with them. I don't. And its not a one off. I've lived here for many years now and I've heard this attitude from other immigrants countless times, especially Muslim Arabs, Pakistanis and Bangladeshis, many of whom literally hate white people, live in their own communities so they don't have to associate with the English and have no shame in supporting and sympathising with terrorists. Of course they would never admit that to a white person. They lie through their teeth. I've seen it happen multiple times. That is why you have home grown terror threats. Stop blaming yourself for the decision of foreigners to blow themselves up to kill the people of this country and harm it. The only thing you should blame yourselves for is letting them into the country and giving them citizenship. The biggest joke is giving them benefits too. Literally paying them while they openly hate you. They think you are a bunch of mugs and openly laugh about it. I'm not English and moved to the UK ten years ago but I'm honestly SHOCKED by the things the local population put up with. They wouldn't get away with it where I'm from. Seriously your political correctness will be what destroys this country. It's time people wake up and vote for parties which put the local indigenous population first (and by that I mean NOT Labour or the Lib Dems) You have built a country to be proud of over centuries. Britain is the envy of the world. Why else do you think so many people from around the world (including myself) chose to move here? Don't let a misguided sense of tolerance allow the intolerant to proliferate against the people of this country. As for ISIS? The last time we saw a fascist, hateful, racist, military organisation carry out ethnic cleansing and genocide on a mass scale the whole world went to war with them. It's time we stopped beating about the bush and did the same, and stopped financing them by supporting Saudi Arabia and Turkey. Thank you for that, honestly a refreshing change! It makes me sad that you think it is a refreshing change. Do you know why? Because it means that actual English people (and by that I don't mean foreigners with a British passport or citizenship) are too afraid of the backlash they will face by speaking the TRUTH. As a result nobody is saying the truth. That is sad when a people are afraid of saying the truth to save their own culture. When I first arrived in London, I expected to see the stereotype of English people I had seen in television all my life. The dapper gentleman and delicate lady, the cheeky cockney, the hard working northern working class man, the carefree girls in discos and the quintessential English Rose. Instead I realised that instead of seeing cockney parades having a right knees up with pictures of the Queen and traditional English music in the east end, I saw poor bangladeshi Street markets, nobody speaking English, hijabs, veils and Islamic flags. This is replicated in Newham, Ilford, Barking and Tower Hamlets which is a stones throw away from the powerhouse of the City of London. English culture and people have been completely lost in these areas. Cockney culture and speech will officially die out when the current generation die. When this many migrants from a drastically different culture form the majority of a population in a place, they have no need to either integrate or have any sympathy for the host country or its people. Are we really surprised that these areas are hotbeds for anti white/Christian hatred? And don't tell me its poverty and a lack of education. The Glasgow bombers were doctors. Hardly poor or uneducated were they? This has been replicated throughout Europe. So how did this Happen? Political reasons. It is becoming increasingly apparent that Labour, previously a staple of working class households up and down the country, has lost the white working class vote. So who is going to vote for them? Poor Immigrants. Is it any surprise that Labour has increasingly supported policies which favour immigration, and in addition using anti discrimination policies to house them? Think about it. That's why they are winning in majority Muslim / immigrant areas. Just look at Tower Hamlets reelecting the Muslim Mayor Lutfur Rahman DESPITE being thrown out of office due to corruption. And to prevent criticism of their policies they also made discussing anything to do with race or Islam a taboo which can cost you your job and get you thrown in jail. Rahman himself claimed islamophobia and racism when he was exposed for his rampant corruption and pro islamist anti white policies. The term "Islamophobia", which is the western legal version of Islamic blasphemy laws and which Muslim organisations have pushed to have enshrined in UK law, is the new term used to silence people who have genuine concerns about anything to do with the immigration or terrorism. We all know what the root cause is. But people have become afraid to talk about it and challenge it. It's a very effective tool which is now being indoctrinated in children in school and even used as a political tool in universities by Muslim Student organisations who invite racist extremist preachers under the banner of free speech but conveniently forget about that free speech and claim 'islamophobia' and 'safe spaces' when another society such invites someone to criticise radical Islam. Just YouTube the video of atheist and former Muslim Maryam Namazi who wanted to give a speech about blasphemy laws at Goldsmiths university to see the despicable behaviour by members of the Islamic society while she was speaking. Can you imagine what would have happened if those were white English students acting that way during a speech by a black speaker discussing slavery? Yet this behaviour is tolerated by universities out of fear of being islamophobic. It's the legacy of Labour's policies and (well meaning) but ultimately misguided liberals which have led to this problem. I should know because as a member of the lgbt community I also used to be very politically correct. I now realise my mistake. It may surprise you that I'm actually not a conservative (really, I'm not, I think their behind the scenes privatisation of industries including the NHS is appalling and treacherous) but the biggest threat to the UK is Labour, political correctness and it's pro immigration, pro islamist policies. Just look at the Corbyn policies, advisors and level of pro Islamic anti semitic hatred that is prevalent in that party. So how does this relate to ISIS? It is this apologist attitude and fear of being seen as islamaphobic which affects government policies. This has led to tolerance of mass migration, lack of integration and extremist ideology. And a fear of upsetting the Muslim world prevents intervention in destroying ISIS. As these people think that the Caliphate is supported by 'Allah' and it is his will that it will prevail and spread over the world and defeat the West, nothing could possibly send a stronger message than destroying them. Additionally a previous commentator was right. Many of their fighters are mercenaries who do it for money. So cut their money off, starting with Saudi Arabia, then Turkey and Pakistan. Financially and militarily supporting those nations who support our destruction is madness. " Turkey?, how exactly are Turkey a supporter or financier of Isis? | |||
" Turkey?, how exactly are Turkey a supporter or financier of Isis?" For a long version, please read this link: http://www.danielpipes.org/14486/turkey-isis Or for a short version read my bit below: 1. Turkey and ISIS have the same religion and Erdogan's ruling party is an openly islamist party which upholds islamist agendas such as blasphemy laws. There is no freedom of speech in Turkey. Just look at the hundreds of thousands of people who have been thrown into jail without trial and are being threatened with the death penalty. It is not a free or 'western' country, no matter how much PR spin they try to put on it in their tourism adverts. 2. Turkey has bought oil from, provided money and weapons as well as logistical solutions to ISIS and even hospital care for ISIS fighters. 3. ISIS and turkey have a common enemy in the Kurds. Kurds are a minority which form almost a fifth of Turkeys population. Their rights are violated daily So they want to form a new country called Kurdistan. This means that part of turkey would be lost if they succeeded. By supporting ISIS, turkey It's helping them defeat the kurds who are a common enemy. 4. Both Iran and turkey belong to rival denominations of Islam, with both seeking control/influence over Syria both for strategic and financial reasons (oil, regional political influence). ISIS are opposed to Irans type of Islam but share that of turkey and Saudi Arabia and Pakistan. Hence how those three collaborate. Hopefully this has explained a few things | |||
" Turkey?, how exactly are Turkey a supporter or financier of Isis? For a long version, please read this link: http://www.danielpipes.org/14486/turkey-isis Or for a short version read my bit below: 1. Turkey and ISIS have the same religion and Erdogan's ruling party is an openly islamist party which upholds islamist agendas such as blasphemy laws. There is no freedom of speech in Turkey. Just look at the hundreds of thousands of people who have been thrown into jail without trial and are being threatened with the death penalty. It is not a free or 'western' country, no matter how much PR spin they try to put on it in their tourism adverts. 2. Turkey has bought oil from, provided money and weapons as well as logistical solutions to ISIS and even hospital care for ISIS fighters. 3. ISIS and turkey have a common enemy in the Kurds. Kurds are a minority which form almost a fifth of Turkeys population. Their rights are violated daily So they want to form a new country called Kurdistan. This means that part of turkey would be lost if they succeeded. By supporting ISIS, turkey It's helping them defeat the kurds who are a common enemy. 4. Both Iran and turkey belong to rival denominations of Islam, with both seeking control/influence over Syria both for strategic and financial reasons (oil, regional political influence). ISIS are opposed to Irans type of Islam but share that of turkey and Saudi Arabia and Pakistan. Hence how those three collaborate. Hopefully this has explained a few things" Sorry, it's still a load of bollocks, there is absolutely no appetite for Islamic State within Turkey, if you have any doubts on that then take a look at how Turkey mobilised up to half of their army to defend the borders with Syria. We spend a lot of time in Turkey, and have dozens of very close Turkish friends, we do a lot of business in Turkey.....Maybe you need to be amongst the Turks a bit more to judge the mood within the country. | |||
" Turkey?, how exactly are Turkey a supporter or financier of Isis? For a long version, please read this link: http://www.danielpipes.org/14486/turkey-isis Or for a short version read my bit below: 1. Turkey and ISIS have the same religion and Erdogan's ruling party is an openly islamist party which upholds islamist agendas such as blasphemy laws. There is no freedom of speech in Turkey. Just look at the hundreds of thousands of people who have been thrown into jail without trial and are being threatened with the death penalty. It is not a free or 'western' country, no matter how much PR spin they try to put on it in their tourism adverts. 2. Turkey has bought oil from, provided money and weapons as well as logistical solutions to ISIS and even hospital care for ISIS fighters. 3. ISIS and turkey have a common enemy in the Kurds. Kurds are a minority which form almost a fifth of Turkeys population. Their rights are violated daily So they want to form a new country called Kurdistan. This means that part of turkey would be lost if they succeeded. By supporting ISIS, turkey It's helping them defeat the kurds who are a common enemy. 4. Both Iran and turkey belong to rival denominations of Islam, with both seeking control/influence over Syria both for strategic and financial reasons (oil, regional political influence). ISIS are opposed to Irans type of Islam but share that of turkey and Saudi Arabia and Pakistan. Hence how those three collaborate. Hopefully this has explained a few things Sorry, it's still a load of bollocks, there is absolutely no appetite for Islamic State within Turkey, if you have any doubts on that then take a look at how Turkey mobilised up to half of their army to defend the borders with Syria. We spend a lot of time in Turkey, and have dozens of very close Turkish friends, we do a lot of business in Turkey.....Maybe you need to be amongst the Turks a bit more to judge the mood within the country." are your Turkish friends members of fab too? perhaps they can tell us, themselves  | |||
" Turkey?, how exactly are Turkey a supporter or financier of Isis? For a long version, please read this link: http://www.danielpipes.org/14486/turkey-isis Or for a short version read my bit below: 1. Turkey and ISIS have the same religion and Erdogan's ruling party is an openly islamist party which upholds islamist agendas such as blasphemy laws. There is no freedom of speech in Turkey. Just look at the hundreds of thousands of people who have been thrown into jail without trial and are being threatened with the death penalty. It is not a free or 'western' country, no matter how much PR spin they try to put on it in their tourism adverts. 2. Turkey has bought oil from, provided money and weapons as well as logistical solutions to ISIS and even hospital care for ISIS fighters. 3. ISIS and turkey have a common enemy in the Kurds. Kurds are a minority which form almost a fifth of Turkeys population. Their rights are violated daily So they want to form a new country called Kurdistan. This means that part of turkey would be lost if they succeeded. By supporting ISIS, turkey It's helping them defeat the kurds who are a common enemy. 4. Both Iran and turkey belong to rival denominations of Islam, with both seeking control/influence over Syria both for strategic and financial reasons (oil, regional political influence). ISIS are opposed to Irans type of Islam but share that of turkey and Saudi Arabia and Pakistan. Hence how those three collaborate. Hopefully this has explained a few things Sorry, it's still a load of bollocks, there is absolutely no appetite for Islamic State within Turkey, if you have any doubts on that then take a look at how Turkey mobilised up to half of their army to defend the borders with Syria. We spend a lot of time in Turkey, and have dozens of very close Turkish friends, we do a lot of business in Turkey.....Maybe you need to be amongst the Turks a bit more to judge the mood within the country. are your Turkish friends members of fab too? perhaps they can tell us, themselves "What a stupid response..... | |||
"I don't think IS is a threat to the west ..the threats to the west comes from home grown terrorist and islamaphobia,segregation,poverty,racism all play a big role in grooming home grown terrorist It does not help that the UK lets people preach hate on the streets in the name of religion. I know we have free speech but when people openly preach violence then that's s a bit more than just free speech and should be stopped. I don't think you have free speech in this country. I'm an immigrant and I can tell you this for sure. You only have free speech in this country if you are an immigrant and are spouting hatred against the white English population. If a white English person says anything that highlights negatives in non native cultures then they get convicted of hate speech and thrown in jail, ostracised, lose their job etc. Example: radical islamists burning UK flags, shouting anti white racist slogans in public and the police just stand there and watch. I'd like to see what would happen if the reverse happened. Double standards anyone? What about when the Army had a homecoming parade in Luton and islamists were shouting hateful things and attacking soldiers? The police arrested the locals going to defence of the soldiers. You couldn't make it up! It's putting up with this sort of behaviour and letting them get away with it that has led to this proliferation. Just look at Anjem Choudhurys smug face when he says things against the UK government. He feels he can say anything with impunity, as do his followers. As someone who is middle eastern from a former British colony, most foreigners assume I hate white English people like they do, so they tell me the most racist anti white English hateful things freely, thinking I will agree with them. I don't. And its not a one off. I've lived here for many years now and I've heard this attitude from other immigrants countless times, especially Muslim Arabs, Pakistanis and Bangladeshis, many of whom literally hate white people, live in their own communities so they don't have to associate with the English and have no shame in supporting and sympathising with terrorists. Of course they would never admit that to a white person. They lie through their teeth. I've seen it happen multiple times. That is why you have home grown terror threats. Stop blaming yourself for the decision of foreigners to blow themselves up to kill the people of this country and harm it. The only thing you should blame yourselves for is letting them into the country and giving them citizenship. The biggest joke is giving them benefits too. Literally paying them while they openly hate you. They think you are a bunch of mugs and openly laugh about it. I'm not English and moved to the UK ten years ago but I'm honestly SHOCKED by the things the local population put up with. They wouldn't get away with it where I'm from. Seriously your political correctness will be what destroys this country. It's time people wake up and vote for parties which put the local indigenous population first (and by that I mean NOT Labour or the Lib Dems) You have built a country to be proud of over centuries. Britain is the envy of the world. Why else do you think so many people from around the world (including myself) chose to move here? Don't let a misguided sense of tolerance allow the intolerant to proliferate against the people of this country. As for ISIS? The last time we saw a fascist, hateful, racist, military organisation carry out ethnic cleansing and genocide on a mass scale the whole world went to war with them. It's time we stopped beating about the bush and did the same, and stopped financing them by supporting Saudi Arabia and Turkey. Thank you for that, honestly a refreshing change! It makes me sad that you think it is a refreshing change. Do you know why? Because it means that actual English people (and by that I don't mean foreigners with a British passport or citizenship) are too afraid of the backlash they will face by speaking the TRUTH. As a result nobody is saying the truth. That is sad when a people are afraid of saying the truth to save their own culture. When I first arrived in London, I expected to see the stereotype of English people I had seen in television all my life. The dapper gentleman and delicate lady, the cheeky cockney, the hard working northern working class man, the carefree girls in discos and the quintessential English Rose. Instead I realised that instead of seeing cockney parades having a right knees up with pictures of the Queen and traditional English music in the east end, I saw poor bangladeshi Street markets, nobody speaking English, hijabs, veils and Islamic flags. This is replicated in Newham, Ilford, Barking and Tower Hamlets which is a stones throw away from the powerhouse of the City of London. English culture and people have been completely lost in these areas. Cockney culture and speech will officially die out when the current generation die. When this many migrants from a drastically different culture form the majority of a population in a place, they have no need to either integrate or have any sympathy for the host country or its people. Are we really surprised that these areas are hotbeds for anti white/Christian hatred? And don't tell me its poverty and a lack of education. The Glasgow bombers were doctors. Hardly poor or uneducated were they? This has been replicated throughout Europe. So how did this Happen? Political reasons. It is becoming increasingly apparent that Labour, previously a staple of working class households up and down the country, has lost the white working class vote. So who is going to vote for them? Poor Immigrants. Is it any surprise that Labour has increasingly supported policies which favour immigration, and in addition using anti discrimination policies to house them? Think about it. That's why they are winning in majority Muslim / immigrant areas. Just look at Tower Hamlets reelecting the Muslim Mayor Lutfur Rahman DESPITE being thrown out of office due to corruption. And to prevent criticism of their policies they also made discussing anything to do with race or Islam a taboo which can cost you your job and get you thrown in jail. Rahman himself claimed islamophobia and racism when he was exposed for his rampant corruption and pro islamist anti white policies. The term "Islamophobia", which is the western legal version of Islamic blasphemy laws and which Muslim organisations have pushed to have enshrined in UK law, is the new term used to silence people who have genuine concerns about anything to do with the immigration or terrorism. We all know what the root cause is. But people have become afraid to talk about it and challenge it. It's a very effective tool which is now being indoctrinated in children in school and even used as a political tool in universities by Muslim Student organisations who invite racist extremist preachers under the banner of free speech but conveniently forget about that free speech and claim 'islamophobia' and 'safe spaces' when another society such invites someone to criticise radical Islam. Just YouTube the video of atheist and former Muslim Maryam Namazi who wanted to give a speech about blasphemy laws at Goldsmiths university to see the despicable behaviour by members of the Islamic society while she was speaking. Can you imagine what would have happened if those were white English students acting that way during a speech by a black speaker discussing slavery? Yet this behaviour is tolerated by universities out of fear of being islamophobic. It's the legacy of Labour's policies and (well meaning) but ultimately misguided liberals which have led to this problem. I should know because as a member of the lgbt community I also used to be very politically correct. I now realise my mistake. It may surprise you that I'm actually not a conservative (really, I'm not, I think their behind the scenes privatisation of industries including the NHS is appalling and treacherous) but the biggest threat to the UK is Labour, political correctness and it's pro immigration, pro islamist policies. Just look at the Corbyn policies, advisors and level of pro Islamic anti semitic hatred that is prevalent in that party. So how does this relate to ISIS? It is this apologist attitude and fear of being seen as islamaphobic which affects government policies. This has led to tolerance of mass migration, lack of integration and extremist ideology. And a fear of upsetting the Muslim world prevents intervention in destroying ISIS. As these people think that the Caliphate is supported by 'Allah' and it is his will that it will prevail and spread over the world and defeat the West, nothing could possibly send a stronger message than destroying them. Additionally a previous commentator was right. Many of their fighters are mercenaries who do it for money. So cut their money off, starting with Saudi Arabia, then Turkey and Pakistan. Financially and militarily supporting those nations who support our destruction is madness. " You have got me all wrong if you think I'm happy that you have had to reach these conclusions. When I made that post, I meant "refreshing change" that someone from your background had the guts to make such a post. Instead of taking what you can from a system that has turned against the indigenous population in favour of a people who obviously hate our ways, and want to change this country for ever, to make it more like their own. You have come to realise that this is all wrong. It is sad, but more power to you for realising this, | |||
"You defeat an ideology by education. Hatred, separation and division has never resolved any conflict in history and it won't happen this time either. " Hey 2hot, the post is about IS, not your right wing tory scumbag party ideology!! | |||
" Sorry, it's still a load of bollocks, there is absolutely no appetite for Islamic State within Turkey, if you have any doubts on that then take a look at how Turkey mobilised up to half of their army to defend the borders with Syria. We spend a lot of time in Turkey, and have dozens of very close Turkish friends, we do a lot of business in Turkey.....Maybe you need to be amongst the Turks a bit more to judge the mood within the country." I never said that the majority of the Turkish people want this to happen. They don't. However there is a significant proportion of people who do. You mentioned that they mobilised the army. They have. But if you read my description and read the news and talk with any Kurds then you will realise that a lot of what the Turkish military are doing is attacking the Kurds. Having friends who are Turkish and nice people doesn't negate this. Of course most Turkish people are nice. Most people in any race are nice. But it's the violent, extremist minority in any race which drive the agenda by intimidation, violence and eliminating the opposition. Just look at what is happening in Turkey right now. anyone who opposed Erdogan is being thrown in jail. We are talking dozens of thousands of innocent people just because they express a different view and are seen as a threat to his authority. Did you know that it is illegal to say anything bad about Erdogan in Turkey? Can you imagine if it was illegal to say anything in this country about Cameron or Teresa May? The thought is unfathomable. Don't forget that as a British tourist and foreigner in their country they will only try to paint their country in a positive light. The same way English people will be embarrassed about the National Front and slavery or Germans about the Nazis. No normal person in any country will want to discuss the negatives of their country with guests to their nation. And also no person who has such hardline racist nationalist views will make friends with a foreigner - you don't see many black or Asian faces at a BNP rally for a reason. It's the same with Turkey. Look up the Grey Wolves. A paramilitary fascist organisation in Turkey which is supported by 3.6 % of the Turkish population (almost 2 million people) which has been known to carry out bombings, terrorist actions, extortions, intimidation, assassination. They exist and are very real. If you think that even in Britain where we condemn terrorist actions and have predominantly a loosely Christian, secular culture we have 4 times as many young men in certain communities joining ISIS than we do joining the British armed forces, and even converts from other non Muslim British backgrounds joining and aiding ISIS, what do you think the number is going to be in a Muslim nation like Turkey? Pretty high I would imagine. Just because most Turkish people are nice and are against ISIS doesn't mean there aren't islamists or that the Islamic ruling party is not helping them. Most Syrians and Iraqis are nice people too and they are being terrorised by these fanatics. Don't conflate "I know loads of people from xxxxx who are nice" with "ALL people from xxxx are nice". I know loads of nice English people too but I'm sure there are loads who Hate me because I'm a foreigner and a Tranny. Plus remember that as a foreigner the people who will interact with you in any country will be skewed towards those who actually arent racist/nationalist or those willing to hide those views from you because they have something to gain, usually money if you are a tourist or doing business with you. | |||
"Three things:- . 1/ we all agree that so-called Islamic State is directly responsible for an inspires horrific acts of brutality and terror across the world . 2/ I do not wish to conflate so-called Islamic State with Islam; it is a perversion of that religion . 3/ So, in all seriousness how is IS to be destroyed when it exists across multiple states and borders, on the web and in the minds of the disenfranchised and disturbed? . Open to sensible ideas... What is to be done? " Hard question. Islamic State or Daesh is wider or larger than the group. It is the idea of a pure Islamic nation or Ummah (forgive my spelling) under sharia law. There is a probably widespread view that modern Arab and Islamic nations are corrupt, not sufficiently Islamic and under the control of the Westerb powers. This view is going to survive the fall of Daesh and from its ashes in Libya, Afghanistan, Iraq an Syria it successor state will rise. The only way I can see is for Islam to develop its own reformation and for outsiders not to interfer-however painful it may be to watch. | |||
" Sorry, it's still a load of bollocks, there is absolutely no appetite for Islamic State within Turkey, if you have any doubts on that then take a look at how Turkey mobilised up to half of their army to defend the borders with Syria. We spend a lot of time in Turkey, and have dozens of very close Turkish friends, we do a lot of business in Turkey.....Maybe you need to be amongst the Turks a bit more to judge the mood within the country. I never said that the majority of the Turkish people want this to happen. They don't. However there is a significant proportion of people who do. You mentioned that they mobilised the army. They have. But if you read my description and read the news and talk with any Kurds then you will realise that a lot of what the Turkish military are doing is attacking the Kurds. Having friends who are Turkish and nice people doesn't negate this. Of course most Turkish people are nice. Most people in any race are nice. But it's the violent, extremist minority in any race which drive the agenda by intimidation, violence and eliminating the opposition. Just look at what is happening in Turkey right now. anyone who opposed Erdogan is being thrown in jail. We are talking dozens of thousands of innocent people just because they express a different view and are seen as a threat to his authority. Did you know that it is illegal to say anything bad about Erdogan in Turkey? Can you imagine if it was illegal to say anything in this country about Cameron or Teresa May? The thought is unfathomable. Don't forget that as a British tourist and foreigner in their country they will only try to paint their country in a positive light. The same way English people will be embarrassed about the National Front and slavery or Germans about the Nazis. No normal person in any country will want to discuss the negatives of their country with guests to their nation. And also no person who has such hardline racist nationalist views will make friends with a foreigner - you don't see many black or Asian faces at a BNP rally for a reason. It's the same with Turkey. Look up the Grey Wolves. A paramilitary fascist organisation in Turkey which is supported by 3.6 % of the Turkish population (almost 2 million people) which has been known to carry out bombings, terrorist actions, extortions, intimidation, assassination. They exist and are very real. If you think that even in Britain where we condemn terrorist actions and have predominantly a loosely Christian, secular culture we have 4 times as many young men in certain communities joining ISIS than we do joining the British armed forces, and even converts from other non Muslim British backgrounds joining and aiding ISIS, what do you think the number is going to be in a Muslim nation like Turkey? Pretty high I would imagine. Just because most Turkish people are nice and are against ISIS doesn't mean there aren't islamists or that the Islamic ruling party is not helping them. Most Syrians and Iraqis are nice people too and they are being terrorised by these fanatics. Don't conflate "I know loads of people from xxxxx who are nice" with "ALL people from xxxx are nice". I know loads of nice English people too but I'm sure there are loads who Hate me because I'm a foreigner and a Tranny. Plus remember that as a foreigner the people who will interact with you in any country will be skewed towards those who actually arent racist/nationalist or those willing to hide those views from you because they have something to gain, usually money if you are a tourist or doing business with you. " Again.....Turkish backed rebels have over the last few days been making significant gains from IS in Syria and Iraq, that is Turkish backed as in the Turkish government arming, training and supporting these rebels in an official capacity. There are also Turkish special forces embedded with the rebels attacking and defeating IS as we speak, so maybe your theory about Turkey supporting IS may be a little off kilter. | |||
"The only way I can see is for Islam to develop its own reformation and for outsiders not to interfer-however painful it may be to watch. " You are most definitely correct about Islam needing to evolve and the need for reformation. Unfortunately, because of the evolution in weapons and the beliefs of the more conservative Islamic believers non interference is not an option. | |||
"The only way I can see is for Islam to develop its own reformation and for outsiders not to interfer-however painful it may be to watch. You are most definitely correct about Islam needing to evolve and the need for reformation. Unfortunately, because of the evolution in weapons and the beliefs of the more conservative Islamic believers non interference is not an option." If outsiders interfer then inference will always be used as an excuse for some action or inaction. Besides, after the examples of Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya, has interference done any good ? | |||
" Hard question. Islamic State or Daesh is wider or larger than the group. It is the idea of a pure Islamic nation or Ummah (forgive my spelling) under sharia law. There is a probably widespread view that modern Arab and Islamic nations are corrupt, not sufficiently Islamic and under the control of the Westerb powers. This view is going to survive the fall of Daesh and from its ashes in Libya, Afghanistan, Iraq an Syria it successor state will rise. The only way I can see is for Islam to develop its own reformation and for outsiders not to interfer-however painful it may be to watch. " I agree. However in that case we should be supporting the voices of reformation. Instead we just abandon them to be slaughtered by the extremists. Don't forget that in the past there WAS a movement to reform Islam. Unfortunately it reformed it from being more open minded and liberal to being more conservative. It's known as wahhabism and is the hard line Islam most associate with Saudi Arabia. Allowing mosques and imams funded by Saudi Arabia and Pakistan promoting hard line Wahhabism and Deobanism (the ideology behind the Taliban which originated from the Pakistani madrassas or religious schools and which now controls 45% of all UK mosques and most of the training for imams) to operate in the UK doesn't help. Unfortunately most mosques in the UK teach a hard line, conservative form of Islam. As well as teaching them about non believers being filthy and that they shouldn't be friends with us (Koran 5:51), it also teaches them that they should be 'killed or crucified' (Koran 5.33). There are multiple references to this. Ultimately it's up to each religious leader to either promote the divisive and hateful parts of their religion or the positive ones (true for any religion). This is where a liberal reform will help. Unfortunately this isn't the Islam being taught in the UK. Add to that political talk presenting and conflating Europeans and Americans as infidel crusader colonialists and murderers of Muslims in the middle east and you have a very toxic mix of politics and religion. Political islamism. It is outrageous that this has been allowed to happen in the UK. Whats even more outrageous is that it's being allowed to continue. Again due to political correctness and fears of being called 'racist' or islamaphobic. Are we really surprised that this has led to an alienated community within the UK with their own set of rules and beliefs? Or that there are young men and women who don't feel British and who feel they their duty is to fight their own countrymen and women? Young people are so impressionable and easy to manipulate. Where is the funding to liberal imams and mosques to counteract this poison? Where are the government's cyber division taking down social media accounts and websites which promote attacks? Where is the support for and funding of more liberal imams and teaching in other countries? Where is the pressure on nations like Saudi Arabia and Pakistan to reform blasphemy laws where criticism of Islam is punishable by death? You can't reform something if you are put to death for criticising it. | |||
" maybe your theory about Turkey supporting IS may be a little off kilter." They support them where they are fighting Kurds and Assad but fight them where isis isn't acting in their best interests. Let's not forget that a lot of these Syrian 'rebels' are in fact ISIS or other islamist groups fighting for power and control in the region. Supporting them helps to fight Assad and destabilise Syria which only works in the interests of Turkey. Ultimately Turkey has geopolitical interests in the region and they will act according to their benefit to increase the balance of power in their favour. You don't have to believe me. Do your own research on the topic. There is plenty of information out there on this online. | |||
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" maybe your theory about Turkey supporting IS may be a little off kilter. They support them where they are fighting Kurds and Assad but fight them where isis isn't acting in their best interests. Let's not forget that a lot of these Syrian 'rebels' are in fact ISIS or other islamist groups fighting for power and control in the region. Supporting them helps to fight Assad and destabilise Syria which only works in the interests of Turkey. Ultimately Turkey has geopolitical interests in the region and they will act according to their benefit to increase the balance of power in their favour. You don't have to believe me. Do your own research on the topic. There is plenty of information out there on this online. " Overnight Turkish backed rebels retook the vitally important town of Dabiq from IS, Dabiq was to IS the most important place in Syria to hold onto as it features heavily in the Quran. Do YOUR research, it's all over the news today. | |||
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get the camera's ready | |||
"Internet 'stories' regarding the supposed dark military practice of many nations litter the web. I could give you a thousand links to conspiracy theories of 9/11, the moon landings, and the 'real' truth about the death of Elvis....it doesn't make any of them true. I only believe what I see with my own eyes, and my eyes see Turkey supporting rebel groups who are defeating IS on the ground.....you can believe what you choose to." . Rebel groups sounds very much like star wars with the rebel alliance defeating the dark overlord but.... Who are these rebel groups, who leads them, what's they're objectives, who finances them. Last time we supported the "rebel groups" it was the Mujahedin in Afghanistan defeating that dark overlord of Russia.... Of course the Mujahedin spawned the Taliban and the Taliban spawned alqaeda and they spawned isis and isis spawned boko harem.... And on and on the merry go round gos. . | |||
Or believe what nonsense the UK Christian government want you to think.
ISIS followers suffer NPD by emulating their fathers abusive behaviour or by proxy of following the historical behaviour of Muhammad.
It is a cultural and religious issue and a vicious circle.
Empowering woman and coming down hard on all forms of domestic abuse is one solution.
Another is to inform ISIS that if Allah is with them and they want to reinact the life and times of the true Muhammad, they should use swords and spears to fight with, as well as growing beards.
I've seen and heard first hand of Woman's lives ruined by these "so called moderate men" It's a far bigger picture than just ISIS.
Saudi Arabia is to Islam what Rome is to Catholics. Their kings are decendants of Muhammad. I see they are keeping up with traditions handed down or should I say hands lopped off.
Your not dealing with evil, your dealing with mass hysteria and mental health issues mainly extreme narcissism through an ideology.
And of course someone's always benefiting financially.
Why aren't we taught about the Arab slave trade at school why are we so wrapped up in our bad history.
I don't even think it's stopped in Morocco and black people are still considered a slave class. Yet female Muslim apologists say Muhammad freed the odd slave and apposed it. A bit like catch n release if you ask me. How many slaves did that man have?
Anyway....
I better shut up before I'm killed by a peaceful follower or a whitewashed hippie with _omantic views of Islam that goes on wonderful holidays in Morocco but doesn't accept that behind nearly every smiling trader lies a brutally abused Woman.
82%
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"ISIS is not a perversion of Islam. They just want to walk in the shoes of Muhammad. They are as close to true Islam as it gets. Raqqa is like a theme park for Muhammad role play. "Every" Muslim is told that Muhammad is the perfect example of a man. There lies the actual problem! He's an awful example of a man. But a lot of people think he was their version of Jesus, or that is what Muslims would portray to non Muslims. Jesus's existence is debatable, but Muhammad's existence is documented. The Hadith's. He tried to imitate Jesus but failed (the peaceful first part of Qur'an) so he took to the sword to be famous instead (the latter violent part of Qur'an). After much looting killing and enslaving he raised a pirate army of the dessert seas of sand and threw God into the mix. He also had an invisible Angel friend called Gabriel. Who always came to Muhammad the night of a dispute and relayed God's word to Muhammad, always in Muhammad's favour in the said dispute.(How very convenient) He was a cruel manipulative narcissist. He looted, enslaved, multiple r**ed (force married woman widowed by him on the night of killing their husbands in battle) Had multiple people who insulted him assassinated. Lived by the sword and generally got other people to do his bidding. Did not die by the sword. He was a WAR LORD. All the nice stuff put in the Quran about Muhammad was no different than the stuffing of the bible. Neither Jesus or Muhammad had much influence as they were already dead. In fact the Qur'an had so much influence by the hands of men, you wonder when God would get a look in. Yet it's the absolute word of God. Jokes! Take a "REAL" history lesson into Islam's founders true behaviour without the pious bullshit. And don't ask a cult follower about their cult, or your get fluffed.
Or believe what nonsense the UK Christian government want you to think.
ISIS followers suffer NPD by emulating their fathers abusive behaviour or by proxy of following the historical behaviour of Muhammad.
It is a cultural and religious issue and a vicious circle.
Empowering woman and coming down hard on all forms of domestic abuse is one solution.
Another is to inform ISIS that if Allah is with them and they want to reinact the life and times of the true Muhammad, they should use swords and spears to fight with, as well as growing beards.
I've seen and heard first hand of Woman's lives ruined by these "so called moderate men" It's a far bigger picture than just ISIS.
Saudi Arabia is to Islam what Rome is to Catholics. Their kings are decendants of Muhammad. I see they are keeping up with traditions handed down or should I say hands lopped off.
Your not dealing with evil, your dealing with mass hysteria and mental health issues mainly extreme narcissism through an ideology.
And of course someone's always benefiting financially.
Why aren't we taught about the Arab slave trade at school why are we so wrapped up in our bad history.
I don't even think it's stopped in Morocco and black people are still considered a slave class. Yet female Muslim apologists say Muhammad freed the odd slave and apposed it. A bit like catch n release if you ask me. How many slaves did that man have?
Anyway....
I better shut up before I'm killed by a peaceful follower or a whitewashed hippie with _omantic views of Islam that goes on wonderful holidays in Morocco but doesn't accept that behind nearly every smiling trader lies a brutally abused Woman.
82%
"This is a good post and just about sums up the futility of anyone trying to sort this lot out. Man lives in a vicious circle and I have absolutely no idea how we'll ever get out of it. The very concept of religion is to suspend disbelief in various myths and fairy stories. Man as a group in some ways needs these myths and fairy stories to survive. They provide moral codes and acceptable forms of behaviours, but if their interpretations become corrupted or are just downright wrong it leads to conflict. We now have nearly 7 people Billion on the planet all with the potential to introduce another interpretation of some stupid book or other so the potential for chaos grows exponentially. I am very pessimistic as to whether we can survive this new threat. The ignorance and stupidity of these people knows no bounds. | |||
Some people actually think a chickens purpose in life is to provide food for humans.
I wish I was Captain Buck Rodgers and could be frozen in time for 500 years. And wake up and hang out with Wilma Deering.
But obviously not the 80's version of the future.
Seriously living in this society is getting rather embarrassing.
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"Three things:- . 1/ we all agree that so-called Islamic State is directly responsible for an inspires horrific acts of brutality and terror across the world . 2/ I do not wish to conflate so-called Islamic State with Islam; it is a perversion of that religion . 3/ So, in all seriousness how is IS to be destroyed when it exists across multiple states and borders, on the web and in the minds of the disenfranchised and disturbed? . Open to sensible ideas... What is to be done? " . Dear old Joey still here in memory... Resist it while you can because your right to complain is being taken away from you! https://youtu.be/32KRwzJsy1o | |||
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"Pessimistic I know....but probably already too late. They threatened 18 months or more back to "hide" thousands of their "soldiers" amongst the refugees flooding into Europe. These remain as "sleepers" or to radicalise other vulnerable young men (mostly). They then pop up with random acts against "soft" targets. It has started already and could continue for decades...... These small, isolated incidents are almost impossible to guard against. Bush/Blair legacy is here in Europe now!" And recent events seem to back this up....."sleepers" together with their social media propaganda inspiring a mix of home grown and people who are from/been to IS controlled areas committing random acts....just as they promised! | |||
"Theres nothing wrong with criticism of ideas and ideologies... In fact our very advancement relies upon it, if the ideology is good it stands up to critique, if you need to riot from hearing criticism of it, you shouldn't live here and in reality it shows your ideas for what they are... Shit" Ah but that's the rub isn't it! One religion is allowed to say what that want about one. It as soon as you start to criticise the other side that's not allowed. As in drawing a caracature of a certain profit is blasphemy 
So much of a double standard, and I sometimes wonder just how many members of daesh are repressed LGBTQ but are terrified of being find out for fear of being beheaded, burned alive or just thrown off a building?
I bet there are more than you would think
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"Ban all religious schools here. Enforce integrated schools.Indoctrinating children into religon at school is child abuse. Its state sponsored abuse if our goverment allows these religious schools.Ban them all!" I do agree with banning religious schools but not mean all of them Christian ones as well, even in college my sons has to do a religious even though he has 0 interest in any religion | |||
"Ban all religious schools here. Enforce integrated schools.Indoctrinating children into religon at school is child abuse. Its state sponsored abuse if our goverment allows these religious schools.Ban them all!" . I've always been in favour of secularism, theres nothing wrong with being a deist but theists should be open to criticism, just like every other ideology is from the BNP to Greenpeace to conservatism and socialisim. Unfortunately we're under attack from 3 sides, the regressive left, the hard right and the hardliner religious, and that's an important point, moderate Muslims rarely make the news or programmes on TV that debate this, all you ever hear from is the right wing of Islam, the moderates are out there and need to be given a platform to depoliticise Islam from those that seek to Promote it as the answer to everything | |||
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"Moderate Muslims are far few than you are made to belive. Many so called moderate Muslims agree with sharia law, in fact if you didn't you wouldnt be a Muslim. It's the law of God. My friends son said his mother would be stoned in an Islamic country, because she is liberal. To anyone who didn't know his views, they would consider him moderate. The people that need to come forth are the ex Muslims. These are exceptional people. It be nice to hear their views on things. Ban all religious schools. Amen! Sorry. Religion is engrained in the police, the forces the government, law, Royal family etc etc.. Instead of two ends of the educational spectrum. There should be one level of education all round. But then how will the ruling classes be one up anymore. It's all down to greed control and money. Money money money... woohoo. " . Theres plenty of Muslims out there who drink and eat bacon butties and pray once a week and don't get upset if you say Mohammed was a bad man. You don't hear from them in the same way you don't hear from most liberals as liberals tend to be hand wringers, the oh well, live and let live, mind my own building type. What we actually get interviewed on TV and radio is the hardliners, the ones who think Islam is the first last and greatest thing since sliced bread, Joe Cox got murdered by the minority right wing for criticism.... The main difference is this The Pakistani moderate newspaper seller in Glasgow got murdered by the mainstream wing of Islam for wishing people happy Easter. I agree that until we actually start speaking honestly about what the problem is and the scale of the problem is we won't get anywhere. Majid nawaz is an ex radical convert to moderate secularism and wouldn't be a bad place to start, but you look at somebody like mehdi Hassan who is what you would call a liberal in every other way, he certainly isn't liberal with Islam | |||
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"Islam is the problem. You may not like it. But it is." I do agree to a point but read any of the books koran,bible etc and they are all full of blood | |||
"Agree with every u say but do u ever think we will be able to talk honestly about this subject we ars far to PC. " . You have to resist it, never be afraid to say what you think, if what you think is bad or wrong somebody can point you to better thinking. Personally I've never been in favour of banning the crazy imams either, let them say it out loud for all to hear... Let's hear this crazy fucking nonsense they have to say and beat it down with freedom, rationalism, secularism, logic, humanity and democracy, that's why these crazy fuckers hate those things, it kills they're arguments stone dead! | |||
"Islam is the problem. You may not like it. But it is. I do agree to a point but read any of the books koran,bible etc and they are all full of blood "Yes, but we in the west have advanced whilst they are stuck in the past. | |||
"Islam is the problem. You may not like it. But it is. I do agree to a point but read any of the books koran,bible etc and they are all full of blood Yes, but we in the west have advanced whilst they are stuck in the past."Agreed They want everyone obeying without question, praying 5 times a day all living in fear of their god | |||
"Islam is the problem. You may not like it. But it is. I do agree to a point but read any of the books koran,bible etc and they are all full of blood Yes, but we in the west have advanced whilst they are stuck in the past.
Agreed
They want everyone obeying without question, praying 5 times a day all living in fear of their god "That is right they think they can do that, cos they are jealous of our religion as it is so peaceful. | |||
"Islam is the problem. You may not like it. But it is. I do agree to a point but read any of the books koran,bible etc and they are all full of blood ". Its not so much the books although there all awful, its the person the books hold up as the perfect human... And the ideology they preach. Islamic state are for every purpose Mohammed, there following in his footsteps as the perfect human. Its entirety possible to follow the teachings of Jesus Christ and then look at his teachings and say mmm that giving all your wealth away and living in a robe and sandals while waiting for God to conjure up some fish and loaves to live off, I'm not very keen on that bit, so I'll just ignore it, you wouldn't be a strict Jesus follower, and let's face it, that's most Christians, and most Muslims don't follow Mohammed's every word thankfully Because unlike Jesus he said and did some pretty nasty shit even for 7th century standards. However those that do hang on his every word could be called closer to Isis than those that don't. | |||
"Agree with every u say but do u ever think we will be able to talk honestly about this subject we ars far to PC. " No we are not, but it depends what platforms you use, utube comment section allows more than here. | |||
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"Muslims see no wrong in what Mohamed did, to them he was perfect. They see no wrong that he slept with a 9 year old girl and married her when she was 6. Let me ask a question..... would he be called a peadophile today?" True but they were different times, the problem is there are sick fucks that want those days to return. Bocol haram never took women did they? No they took children, hound girls becaus they are mostly a bunch of perverts hiding behind religion | |||
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"Muslims see no wrong in what Mohamed did, to them he was perfect. They see no wrong that he slept with a 9 year old girl and married her when she was 6. Let me ask a question..... would he be called a peadophile today? True but they were different times, the problem is there are sick fucks that want those days to return. Bocol haram never took women did they? No they took children, hound girls becaus they are mostly a bunch of perverts hiding behind religion "I don't think it's ever been a case of them wanting it to return, it's always been there, it's bred into them and they know no different. And because of that, we have the problems of the grooming gangs in Rochdale and Blackpool amongst other places. They see no wrong in what they do. And why? Because this is what their prophet did. | |||
"Muslims see no wrong in what Mohamed did, to them he was perfect. They see no wrong that he slept with a 9 year old girl and married her when she was 6. Let me ask a question..... would he be called a peadophile today? True but they were different times, the problem is there are sick fucks that want those days to return. Bocol haram never took women did they? No they took children, hound girls becaus they are mostly a bunch of perverts hiding behind religion
I don't think it's ever been a case of them wanting it to return, it's always been there, it's bred into them and they know no different. And because of that, we have the problems of the grooming gangs in Rochdale and Blackpool amongst other places. They see no wrong in what they do. And why? Because this is what their prophet did."..  | |||
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"Muslims see no wrong in what Mohamed did, to them he was perfect. They see no wrong that he slept with a 9 year old girl and married her when she was 6. Let me ask a question..... would he be called a peadophile today? True but they were different times, the problem is there are sick fucks that want those days to return. Bocol haram never took women did they? No they took children, hound girls becaus they are mostly a bunch of perverts hiding behind religion
I don't think it's ever been a case of them wanting it to return, it's always been there, it's bred into them and they know no different. And because of that, we have the problems of the grooming gangs in Rochdale and Blackpool amongst other places. They see no wrong in what they do. And why? Because this is what their prophet did."biggest load of tosh ive ever read. This is the same shite that britain furst and daiky fail spew out. | |||
"If you live in a modern society that is supposed to provide adequate education. You shouldn't be leaving school in this day and age believing in sky God's. It's just ridiculous. RE needs to be binned and natural history needs to be more important. Today it's about providing people with jobs, not about teaching kids about the actual real world. Don't look at the stars, get your head down and earn and consume. Oh and don't upset the Saudi's as we need their oil and business. " Religion is like circumcision if you're offered it at 21 you're going to say no. | |||
"Muslims see no wrong in what Mohamed did, to them he was perfect. They see no wrong that he slept with a 9 year old girl and married her when she was 6. Let me ask a question..... would he be called a peadophile today? True but they were different times, the problem is there are sick fucks that want those days to return. Bocol haram never took women did they? No they took children, hound girls becaus they are mostly a bunch of perverts hiding behind religion
I don't think it's ever been a case of them wanting it to return, it's always been there, it's bred into them and they know no different. And because of that, we have the problems of the grooming gangs in Rochdale and Blackpool amongst other places. They see no wrong in what they do. And why? Because this is what their prophet did.biggest load of tosh ive ever read. This is the same shite that britain furst and daiky fail spew out.
You can along with piers Morgan and Susana Reid, bury your head in the sand and pretend its not happening. But it's real.
" | |||
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"Muslims see no wrong in what Mohamed did, to them he was perfect. They see no wrong that he slept with a 9 year old girl and married her when she was 6. Let me ask a question..... would he be called a peadophile today? True but they were different times, the problem is there are sick fucks that want those days to return. Bocol haram never took women did they? No they took children, hound girls becaus they are mostly a bunch of perverts hiding behind religion
I don't think it's ever been a case of them wanting it to return, it's always been there, it's bred into them and they know no different. And because of that, we have the problems of the grooming gangs in Rochdale and Blackpool amongst other places. They see no wrong in what they do. And why? Because this is what their prophet did.biggest load of tosh ive ever read. This is the same shite that britain furst and daiky fail spew out.
You can along with piers Morgan and Susana Reid, bury your head in the sand and pretend its not happening. But it's real.
"whats real? ill have more concerns with the local priest than anyone else. as horrendous as it is i do think that putting the spotlight on the grooming gangs rather than mps dead or alive, celebs, the clergy and childrens homes didnt give any of the victims any justice. | |||
"The lot in Rochdale were a bit different as in they saw white girls/women as less than their own. Also they knew full well that if they had done those things to their own race/religion they would have been dealt with by their own people. " the thing is like everyone, most are culturally enwrapped, doesnt help with the media portaying women as sex objects and after watching some shows a lot THINK everyone is easy . just like people read the daily mail, express, sun etc and think its true. | |||
"Muslims see no wrong in what Mohamed did, to them he was perfect. They see no wrong that he slept with a 9 year old girl and married her when she was 6. Let me ask a question..... would he be called a peadophile today? True but they were different times, the problem is there are sick fucks that want those days to return. Bocol haram never took women did they? No they took children, hound girls becaus they are mostly a bunch of perverts hiding behind religion
I don't think it's ever been a case of them wanting it to return, it's always been there, it's bred into them and they know no different. And because of that, we have the problems of the grooming gangs in Rochdale and Blackpool amongst other places. They see no wrong in what they do. And why? Because this is what their prophet did.biggest load of tosh ive ever read. This is the same shite that britain furst and daiky fail spew out.
You can along with piers Morgan and Susana Reid, bury your head in the sand and pretend its not happening. But it's real.
whats real? ill have more concerns with the local priest than anyone else.
as horrendous as it is i do think that putting the spotlight on the grooming gangs rather than mps dead or alive, celebs, the clergy and childrens homes didnt give any of the victims any justice. "If this thread was about the church or children's homes then of course the spotlight would be on them, but, the original thread isn't | |||
"Muslims see no wrong in what Mohamed did, to them he was perfect. They see no wrong that he slept with a 9 year old girl and married her when she was 6. Let me ask a question..... would he be called a peadophile today? True but they were different times, the problem is there are sick fucks that want those days to return. Bocol haram never took women did they? No they took children, hound girls becaus they are mostly a bunch of perverts hiding behind religion
I don't think it's ever been a case of them wanting it to return, it's always been there, it's bred into them and they know no different. And because of that, we have the problems of the grooming gangs in Rochdale and Blackpool amongst other places. They see no wrong in what they do. And why? Because this is what their prophet did.biggest load of tosh ive ever read. This is the same shite that britain furst and daiky fail spew out.
You can along with piers Morgan and Susana Reid, bury your head in the sand and pretend its not happening. But it's real.
whats real? ill have more concerns with the local priest than anyone else.
as horrendous as it is i do think that putting the spotlight on the grooming gangs rather than mps dead or alive, celebs, the clergy and childrens homes didnt give any of the victims any justice.
If this thread was about the church or children's homes then of course the spotlight would be on them, but, the original thread isn't"its not about muslims either | |||
"Muslims see no wrong in what Mohamed did, to them he was perfect. They see no wrong that he slept with a 9 year old girl and married her when she was 6. Let me ask a question..... would he be called a peadophile today? True but they were different times, the problem is there are sick fucks that want those days to return. Bocol haram never took women did they? No they took children, hound girls becaus they are mostly a bunch of perverts hiding behind religion
I don't think it's ever been a case of them wanting it to return, it's always been there, it's bred into them and they know no different. And because of that, we have the problems of the grooming gangs in Rochdale and Blackpool amongst other places. They see no wrong in what they do. And why? Because this is what their prophet did.biggest load of tosh ive ever read. This is the same shite that britain furst and daiky fail spew out.
You can along with piers Morgan and Susana Reid, bury your head in the sand and pretend its not happening. But it's real.
whats real? ill have more concerns with the local priest than anyone else.
as horrendous as it is i do think that putting the spotlight on the grooming gangs rather than mps dead or alive, celebs, the clergy and childrens homes didnt give any of the victims any justice.
If this thread was about the church or children's homes then of course the spotlight would be on them, but, the original thread isn'tits not about muslims either"It's about IS i.e. Muslims | |||
"Muslims see no wrong in what Mohamed did, to them he was perfect. They see no wrong that he slept with a 9 year old girl and married her when she was 6. Let me ask a question..... would he be called a peadophile today? True but they were different times, the problem is there are sick fucks that want those days to return. Bocol haram never took women did they? No they took children, hound girls becaus they are mostly a bunch of perverts hiding behind religion
I don't think it's ever been a case of them wanting it to return, it's always been there, it's bred into them and they know no different. And because of that, we have the problems of the grooming gangs in Rochdale and Blackpool amongst other places. They see no wrong in what they do. And why? Because this is what their prophet did.biggest load of tosh ive ever read. This is the same shite that britain furst and daiky fail spew out.
You can along with piers Morgan and Susana Reid, bury your head in the sand and pretend its not happening. But it's real.
whats real? ill have more concerns with the local priest than anyone else.
as horrendous as it is i do think that putting the spotlight on the grooming gangs rather than mps dead or alive, celebs, the clergy and childrens homes didnt give any of the victims any justice.
If this thread was about the church or children's homes then of course the spotlight would be on them, but, the original thread isn'tits not about muslims either
It's about IS i.e. Muslims"no read the op again part 2. or do we need to draw a picture for you | |||
"Muslims see no wrong in what Mohamed did, to them he was perfect. They see no wrong that he slept with a 9 year old girl and married her when she was 6. Let me ask a question..... would he be called a peadophile today? True but they were different times, the problem is there are sick fucks that want those days to return. Bocol haram never took women did they? No they took children, hound girls becaus they are mostly a bunch of perverts hiding behind religion
I don't think it's ever been a case of them wanting it to return, it's always been there, it's bred into them and they know no different. And because of that, we have the problems of the grooming gangs in Rochdale and Blackpool amongst other places. They see no wrong in what they do. And why? Because this is what their prophet did.biggest load of tosh ive ever read. This is the same shite that britain furst and daiky fail spew out.
You can along with piers Morgan and Susana Reid, bury your head in the sand and pretend its not happening. But it's real.
whats real? ill have more concerns with the local priest than anyone else.
as horrendous as it is i do think that putting the spotlight on the grooming gangs rather than mps dead or alive, celebs, the clergy and childrens homes didnt give any of the victims any justice.
If this thread was about the church or children's homes then of course the spotlight would be on them, but, the original thread isn'tits not about muslims either
It's about IS i.e. Muslims
no read the op again part 2.
or do we need to draw a picture for you". You can draw whatever you like but I suggest you don't draw Mohammed... Well not unless you like being beheaded or set on fire  | |||
"Muslims see no wrong in what Mohamed did, to them he was perfect. They see no wrong that he slept with a 9 year old girl and married her when she was 6. Let me ask a question..... would he be called a peadophile today? True but they were different times, the problem is there are sick fucks that want those days to return. Bocol haram never took women did they? No they took children, hound girls becaus they are mostly a bunch of perverts hiding behind religion
I don't think it's ever been a case of them wanting it to return, it's always been there, it's bred into them and they know no different. And because of that, we have the problems of the grooming gangs in Rochdale and Blackpool amongst other places. They see no wrong in what they do. And why? Because this is what their prophet did.biggest load of tosh ive ever read. This is the same shite that britain furst and daiky fail spew out.
You can along with piers Morgan and Susana Reid, bury your head in the sand and pretend its not happening. But it's real.
whats real? ill have more concerns with the local priest than anyone else.
as horrendous as it is i do think that putting the spotlight on the grooming gangs rather than mps dead or alive, celebs, the clergy and childrens homes didnt give any of the victims any justice.
If this thread was about the church or children's homes then of course the spotlight would be on them, but, the original thread isn'tits not about muslims either
It's about IS i.e. Muslims
no read the op again part 2.
or do we need to draw a picture for you.
You can draw whatever you like but I suggest you don't draw Mohammed... Well not unless you like being beheaded or set on fire "yeah try not to draw mohammed never know whats going to happen.. Some people shoot up a candy store because theyve had a lovers tiff. Some people are deranged.. Cant put them all under one glove. | |||
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"Diplomacy does not work with terrorists or idealists becaus they are just not interested in listening or talking about it. IS wants what it wants and is not interested in what anyone else thinks! They see everyone else as blasphemers and say anyone who does not want to be in thier club should burn in hell fire and they are determind to help us on our way. They want an Islamic state world wide with everyone back in the dark ages all doing what we are told. That is why education is the only way to defeat the ideology. At the moment Daesh are using the Internet, social media and news channels far better than we who are being targeted. We all have to get better at challenging them and their prehistoric views. 24/7 news coverage that shows everything including the "press releases" of Daesh is not helping the fight. An example yesterday was how the media almost instantaneously republished the pictures of the two so called fighters who murdered the Priest. This glorifies their cause and gives them the fame in death that they could never have hoped to achieve in life. No offence but you are both wrong. ISIS is a business plain and simple. This is not my opinion, this is scentific fact based on research by world expert and Oxford professor Paul Collier in his study which you can read for yourselves online called "greed and grievance". The average ISIS member does not believe jack shit about Islam or a state. A few gullible, usually foreign born members do, but as an organisation they over whelmingly relies on paid mercenaries to make their money from oil and drugs trade. Like any business, if it stops making money then it's employees will run a mile, assuming there is something to run to of course. " I can see that both of you have a point. Daesh, and Al Qaeda before them, have obviously mastered the art of internet propoganda. The ones who commit terrorist acts in the west seem to be attracted by the extreme misogyny and homophobia, but yeah Al-Baghdadi doesn't believe in the ideology so firmly enough to be a suicide bomber. It's not a coincidence that Iraq, Syria, Yemen, Libya, Nigeria, where there are at least a few pockets of Daesh control all happen to be places with oil. And Iraq being dished out to foreign contractors probably had something to do with its growth in that country. | |||
" The so-called Islamic State of Syria/Iraq is a millenarian death cult that must eventually be crushed. Problem is it has, or claims, affiliates in 12 other countries and you can argue how far connected the people who kill, or claim to kill, in its name are simply disenfranchised, deranged or damaged individuals (the attacks in Belgium do seem to have a direct connection, the more recent ones in France & Germany do not, for instance)... BUT Any way you look at it - through IS's own publicity or the western press' coverage - it is a triumph of publicity and propaganda that disguises the fact that so-called Islamic State is in difficulty in the Levant. What's happening on the ground in Syria, Iraq, Libya, Yeman et al is an entirely different, horrific story that the west, and Russia and Iran and Saudi Arabia are making cluster fuck of. Truth and reconciliation? I'm thinking of something a little more proactive... " Think you're pretty much spot on. As for Truth and Reconciliation, I don't think it's provided a lasting solution, the tutsi took over after an invasion from Burundi. Many of the participants have fled to Congo-Kinshasa, and could invade from there, these days it's very hard to a Hutu, even if you had no involvement. As for South Africa, it was too much of a compromise with the apartheid regime. | |||
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"Why don't we give 300 million to the BNP and ask them to squeal on their radicals until there's only moderate BNP members left? Or just give them jobs and decent housing and the Nazis will disappear and stop causing trouble?." ...What trouble have they been causing.??? | |||
"When everyone in the world finally realises there is no god "and we run out of oil" then we will have world peace. Until then it's just going to be massacre after massacre in the name of something that doesn't exist." The middle east will be uninhabitable by the end of the century due to climate change.Which will lead to more conflict and migration.Infact the syrian civil war is partly due to climate change and a severe drought before the war that lead to mass migration to the cities and mass unemployment. | |||
"Why don't we give 300 million to the BNP and ask them to squeal on their radicals until there's only moderate BNP members left? Or just give them jobs and decent housing and the Nazis will disappear and stop causing trouble?....What trouble have they been causing.???" . What the Nazis or the BNP? | |||
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"Islamic State is a Caliphate? UAE is an Emirate Oman is a Sultanate. What's the difference between a Caliph, an Emir and a Sultan? And Saudi is a Kingdom!" . There all nobility, direct descendants of Mohammed except for caliphs who don't need to be blood related just follow the teachings of Mohammed | |||
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"Islamic State is a Caliphate? UAE is an Emirate Oman is a Sultanate. What's the difference between a Caliph, an Emir and a Sultan? And Saudi is a Kingdom!. There all nobility, direct descendants of Mohammed except for caliphs who don't need to be blood related just follow the teachings of Mohammed" You forgot to add, and murder all of the oposition | |||
"Why don't we give 300 million to the BNP and ask them to squeal on their radicals until there's only moderate BNP members left? Or just give them jobs and decent housing and the Nazis will disappear and stop causing trouble?....What trouble have they been causing.???. What the Nazis or the BNP?" Shush all the BNP and blood and honour lads are now EDL, wouldn't dream of having none of that one united European super state malarkey now guv. | |||
"Islamic State is a Caliphate? UAE is an Emirate Oman is a Sultanate. What's the difference between a Caliph, an Emir and a Sultan? And Saudi is a Kingdom!. There all nobility, direct descendants of Mohammed except for caliphs who don't need to be blood related just follow the teachings of Mohammed You forgot to add, and murder all of the oposition "Putin would approve of their methods.  | |||
"Why don't we give 300 million to the BNP and ask them to squeal on their radicals until there's only moderate BNP members left? Or just give them jobs and decent housing and the Nazis will disappear and stop causing trouble?....What trouble have they been causing.???. What the Nazis or the BNP? Shush all the BNP and blood and honour lads are now EDL, wouldn't dream of having none of that one united European super state malarkey now guv. " . They could call it something very pc like a "prevent" policy. Of course the edl might not be keen on it like the Muslim council of Britain ain't keen on it | |||
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"Which is the more violent text the Quran or the Bible.From this thread you would think the Quran.Apparently not. http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/violence-more-common-in-bible-than-quran-text-analysis-reveals-a6863381.html" Yes more blood in the Old Testament  and the Cristians did go on their crusades and killed anyone who would not convert
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"Indeed. But if you made the two bibles one, everything would be the opposite to the Quran. The fists half of the Quran is peaceful the latter isn't. Jesus if existed was peaceful, Muhammad was violent. If we put the slave trade in comparison, if no pressure had been put on Arab nations they would still be happily at it today. We try to stop them chopping heads off in Saudi, but they don't see the PC in that one yet. We have a terrible history, there's not many a societies that lived through the dark and middle ages that doesn't. But Islam is seriously lagging and lives in a middle age bubble. " Muhammad was a warrior prophet jesus wasnt.However long before Muhammad ,Moses was worse. Deuteronomy 20:17 You must utterly destroy the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites, and Jebusites, just as the LORD your God has commanded you. Slave ships sailed from europe only a few hundred years ago with christian names and the clergy onoard was fine with it.The very first slave ship to arrive in the americas was the British ship the "Good ship Jesus" In the 1560s. Pressure had to be applied to change their ways as slavery was sanctioned in the bible. Eventually the middle east will catch up with the rest of the world .They can no longer isolate themselves due to globalization and interconnectivity. | |||
"Indeed. But if you made the two bibles one, everything would be the opposite to the Quran. The fists half of the Quran is peaceful the latter isn't. Jesus if existed was peaceful, Muhammad was violent. If we put the slave trade in comparison, if no pressure had been put on Arab nations they would still be happily at it today. We try to stop them chopping heads off in Saudi, but they don't see the PC in that one yet. We have a terrible history, there's not many a societies that lived through the dark and middle ages that doesn't. But Islam is seriously lagging and lives in a middle age bubble. Muhammad was a warrior prophet jesus wasnt.However long before Muhammad ,Moses was worse. Deuteronomy 20:17 You must utterly destroy the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites, and Jebusites, just as the LORD your God has commanded you. Slave ships sailed from europe only a few hundred years ago with christian names and the clergy onoard was fine with it.The very first slave ship to arrive in the americas was the British ship the "Good ship Jesus" In the 1560s. Pressure had to be applied to change their ways as slavery was sanctioned in the bible. Eventually the middle east will catch up with the rest of the world .They can no longer isolate themselves due to globalization and interconnectivity. " . I couldn't agree with you more Christianity has been an absolute bane in the lives of millions for a thousand years, the list of theocratic ideas that have caused devastation is very long and very deadly from inquisitions to civil wars to child molestation and unwanted adoptions!. Our ancestors have fought it and the theocrats for hundreds of years to get to this point of democracy, science and tolerance. Sadly I feel we need to now fight again against theocracy!  | |||
"Indeed. But if you made the two bibles one, everything would be the opposite to the Quran. The fists half of the Quran is peaceful the latter isn't. Jesus if existed was peaceful, Muhammad was violent. If we put the slave trade in comparison, if no pressure had been put on Arab nations they would still be happily at it today. We try to stop them chopping heads off in Saudi, but they don't see the PC in that one yet. We have a terrible history, there's not many a societies that lived through the dark and middle ages that doesn't. But Islam is seriously lagging and lives in a middle age bubble. Muhammad was a warrior prophet jesus wasnt.However long before Muhammad ,Moses was worse. Deuteronomy 20:17 You must utterly destroy the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites, and Jebusites, just as the LORD your God has commanded you. Slave ships sailed from europe only a few hundred years ago with christian names and the clergy onoard was fine with it.The very first slave ship to arrive in the americas was the British ship the "Good ship Jesus" In the 1560s. Pressure had to be applied to change their ways as slavery was sanctioned in the bible. Eventually the middle east will catch up with the rest of the world .They can no longer isolate themselves due to globalization and interconnectivity. . I couldn't agree with you more Christianity has been an absolute bane in the lives of millions for a thousand years, the list of theocratic ideas that have caused devastation is very long and very deadly from inquisitions to civil wars to child molestation and unwanted adoptions!. Our ancestors have fought it and the theocrats for hundreds of years to get to this point of democracy, science and tolerance. Sadly I feel we need to now fight again against theocracy! "I miss the days when the usual idiots would argue that Islam was a religion of war (plus selective Koran quotes), whereas Christianity is peaceful (cue cherry-picked new Testament quotes). Your post makes far too much sense for this forum. | |||
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"I'm no expert but..... For me none of this war with isis seems to make much They were doing well in achieving their aim of putting together an islamic state. But then started executing western journalists etc. They're not stupid. They would know that by doing that they would then be targeted by bombers and drones. So why did they do it? It goes against common sense. They were armed by the CIA. I think the whole thing is bullshit. " . Frankenstein created a monster but it doesn't mean he was in control of it does it?. | |||
"I'm no expert but..... For me none of this war with isis seems to make much They were doing well in achieving their aim of putting together an islamic state. But then started executing western journalists etc. They're not stupid. They would know that by doing that they would then be targeted by bombers and drones. So why did they do it? It goes against common sense. They were armed by the CIA. I think the whole thing is bullshit. . Frankenstein created a monster but it doesn't mean he was in control of it does it?. " Yep we've lost control but we bare the responsibility to kill it like Frankenstein. Iraq should become 3 countries. Kurdish ,sunni and Shia. Same for syria. The former Yugoslavia broke up after war into 3 countries. | |||
"I'm no expert but..... For me none of this war with isis seems to make much They were doing well in achieving their aim of putting together an islamic state. But then started executing western journalists etc. They're not stupid. They would know that by doing that they would then be targeted by bombers and drones. So why did they do it? It goes against common sense. They were armed by the CIA. I think the whole thing is bullshit. . Frankenstein created a monster but it doesn't mean he was in control of it does it?. Yep we've lost control but we bare the responsibility to kill it like Frankenstein. Iraq should become 3 countries. Kurdish ,sunni and Shia. Same for syria. The former Yugoslavia broke up after war into 3 countries. " . Sadly there's still UN peace keepers there today in places. Were not really interested in killing it just like the Americans aren't really interested in killing North Korea, it kinda suits the Wests objectives to have these rogue elements | |||
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"Isis fighters welcomed into Europe by stupid leftists communists and Marxist traitors thank God were getting out of the Eu " There's always one isn't there? | |||
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"Isis fighters welcomed into Europe by stupid leftists communists and Marxist traitors thank God were getting out of the Eu There's always one isn't there? "If there was only one it wouldnt be hard to track them down. Strange how people went mad about cuts in police after Manchester etc yet welcome migrants in when ISIS have openly stated they are sending people here via that method, still no accounting for stupid | |||
"Isis fighters welcomed into Europe by stupid leftists communists and Marxist traitors thank God were getting out of the Eu " But what are we going to do about the lefty marxist communist traitors in this country. Send them off to rehabilitation camps..? | |||
"When it comes right down to it Islam and Christianity are not compatible and so will never itigrate. All you can do is tolerate each other because one will always try to dominate the other. I'm not taking the man/woman on the street but the actual religion itself. " Muslims and Christians have been living side by side for thousands of years.They have the same prophets.Apart from Mohamed.Its basically the same religon in its origins. Just slightly different. All religon is false at the end if the day.I blame Ibrahim /Abraham. | |||
"When it comes right down to it Islam and Christianity are not compatible and so will never itigrate. All you can do is tolerate each other because one will always try to dominate the other. I'm not taking the man/woman on the street but the actual religion itself. Muslims and Christians have been living side by side for thousands of years.They have the same prophets.Apart from Mohamed.Its basically the same religon in its origins. Just slightly different. All religon is false at the end if the day.I blame Ibrahim /Abraham. " Yes the average man in the street don't really care if someone is a different faith, it's the faith itself that contradicts | |||
"When it comes right down to it Islam and Christianity are not compatible and so will never itigrate. All you can do is tolerate each other because one will always try to dominate the other. I'm not taking the man/woman on the street but the actual religion itself. Muslims and Christians have been living side by side for thousands of years.They have the same prophets.Apart from Mohamed.Its basically the same religon in its origins. Just slightly different. All religon is false at the end if the day.I blame Ibrahim /Abraham. Yes the average man in the street don't really care if someone is a different faith, it's the faith itself that contradicts " Thats the foundation of all religons.There is only one true god and its my god not your god.The only people absolved from this are atheists and agnostics.We will take over one day and sort this planet out. | |||
"When it comes right down to it Islam and Christianity are not compatible and so will never itigrate. All you can do is tolerate each other because one will always try to dominate the other. I'm not taking the man/woman on the street but the actual religion itself. Muslims and Christians have been living side by side for thousands of years.They have the same prophets.Apart from Mohamed.Its basically the same religon in its origins. Just slightly different. All religon is false at the end if the day.I blame Ibrahim /Abraham. Yes the average man in the street don't really care if someone is a different faith, it's the faith itself that contradicts Thats the foundation of all religons.There is only one true god and its my god not your god.The only people absolved from this are atheists and agnostics.We will take over one day and sort this planet out. "... ..so no Christmas prezzies for your kids this year. | |||
"When it comes right down to it Islam and Christianity are not compatible and so will never itigrate. All you can do is tolerate each other because one will always try to dominate the other. I'm not taking the man/woman on the street but the actual religion itself. Muslims and Christians have been living side by side for thousands of years.They have the same prophets.Apart from Mohamed.Its basically the same religon in its origins. Just slightly different. All religon is false at the end if the day.I blame Ibrahim /Abraham. Yes the average man in the street don't really care if someone is a different faith, it's the faith itself that contradicts Thats the foundation of all religons.There is only one true god and its my god not your god.The only people absolved from this are atheists and agnostics.We will take over one day and sort this planet out. ... ..so no Christmas prezzies for your kids this year."Its not a Christian festival, its pagan.Infact the church banned christmas a few centuries back because its pagan and isnt mentioned in the bible.I think cromwell banned it.The clue is in the tree being brought into the house and it being near the winter solstice.So presents are ok. Also Easter has fuck all to do with eggs chocolate and bunnies. | |||
"When it comes right down to it Islam and Christianity are not compatible and so will never itigrate. All you can do is tolerate each other because one will always try to dominate the other. I'm not taking the man/woman on the street but the actual religion itself. Muslims and Christians have been living side by side for thousands of years.They have the same prophets.Apart from Mohamed.Its basically the same religon in its origins. Just slightly different. All religon is false at the end if the day.I blame Ibrahim /Abraham. Yes the average man in the street don't really care if someone is a different faith, it's the faith itself that contradicts Thats the foundation of all religons.There is only one true god and its my god not your god.The only people absolved from this are atheists and agnostics.We will take over one day and sort this planet out. ... ..so no Christmas prezzies for your kids this year. Its not a Christian festival, its pagan.Infact the church banned christmas a few centuries back because its pagan and isnt mentioned in the bible.I think cromwell banned it.The clue is in the tree being brought into the house and it being near the winter solstice.So presents are ok. Also Easter has fuck all to do with eggs chocolate and bunnies. "...So you cherry pick the bits you like. | |||
"When it comes right down to it Islam and Christianity are not compatible and so will never itigrate. All you can do is tolerate each other because one will always try to dominate the other. I'm not taking the man/woman on the street but the actual religion itself. Muslims and Christians have been living side by side for thousands of years.They have the same prophets.Apart from Mohamed.Its basically the same religon in its origins. Just slightly different. All religon is false at the end if the day.I blame Ibrahim /Abraham. Yes the average man in the street don't really care if someone is a different faith, it's the faith itself that contradicts Thats the foundation of all religons.There is only one true god and its my god not your god.The only people absolved from this are atheists and agnostics.We will take over one day and sort this planet out. ... ..so no Christmas prezzies for your kids this year. Its not a Christian festival, its pagan.Infact the church banned christmas a few centuries back because its pagan and isnt mentioned in the bible.I think cromwell banned it.The clue is in the tree being brought into the house and it being near the winter solstice.So presents are ok. Also Easter has fuck all to do with eggs chocolate and bunnies. ...So you cherry pick the bits you like."Well mithra was worshipped on dec 25th are you cherry pucking which gid you wish to worship .I dont cherry pick any religous festivals to celebrate.I see xmas as a cultural thing my kids expect gifts . I know plenty of Muslims and sikhs who give xmas presents to their kids.They dont want their kids to be left out i guess. | |||
