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University Fees
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Fooking hell!
I graduated 9 years ago having paid £1,000 a year. The same course is now likely to be £9,250 a year!
And they said we've got low inflation!!! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Fooking hell!
I graduated 9 years ago having paid £1,000 a year. The same course is now likely to be £9,250 a year!
And they said we've got low inflation!!! "
Yes it's a massive difference. I've seen fees for my degree triple. They say it's because of a withdrawal of government funding.
As a student, it makes me sad that some people may not get the chance to study at a higher level.
As a taxpayer, it makes me hopeful that people will consider if a degree is necessary for their chosen career pathway and focus their thinking on what they want to achieve, rather than go to uni because they don't actually know what they want to do. So my taxes can go to other things such as the NHS etc |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Fooking hell!
I graduated 9 years ago having paid £1,000 a year. The same course is now likely to be £9,250 a year!
And they said we've got low inflation!!!
Yes it's a massive difference. I've seen fees for my degree triple. They say it's because of a withdrawal of government funding.
As a student, it makes me sad that some people may not get the chance to study at a higher level.
As a taxpayer, it makes me hopeful that people will consider if a degree is necessary for their chosen career pathway and focus their thinking on what they want to achieve, rather than go to uni because they don't actually know what they want to do. So my taxes can go to other things such as the NHS etc"
The thing is that most 18 year olds don't know what their chosen career path is! I didn't even know my job existed until I was 23.
If you ask teenagers what they want to be, they normally say jobs that are well known and visible to the public like "nurse" or "gangsta rapper" but those are only the tip of the ice berg.
I find it hilarious that people talk about snobs sending their kids of expensive private schools, well university fees are fast approaching that level and exceeding them for an average private school!! |
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I know, it's a real shame, though the student loan is a safe one in that you only start paying when you earn over a certain amount. In that sense, it operates more like a graduate tax.
It costs a lot to run a university and someone has to pay.
Part of the problem is so many noddy degrees and so many people attending regardless of academic suitability - anyone can get a BA in stuff like meejer studies or soshology.
I'd be happy for a list of subjects which are useful to society and meet its needs - Engineering, Medicine, Chemistry etc, and have those fully funded. If you want to do a degree in face painting or pizza box design, then go ahead, but you have to pay for it.
But of course, who decides what goes on the list? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I know, it's a real shame, though the student loan is a safe one in that you only start paying when you earn over a certain amount. In that sense, it operates more like a graduate tax.
It costs a lot to run a university and someone has to pay.
Part of the problem is so many noddy degrees and so many people attending regardless of academic suitability - anyone can get a BA in stuff like meejer studies or soshology.
I'd be happy for a list of subjects which are useful to society and meet its needs - Engineering, Medicine, Chemistry etc, and have those fully funded. If you want to do a degree in face painting or pizza box design, then go ahead, but you have to pay for it.
But of course, who decides what goes on the list?"
Good points, well made |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I know, it's a real shame, though the student loan is a safe one in that you only start paying when you earn over a certain amount. In that sense, it operates more like a graduate tax.
It costs a lot to run a university and someone has to pay.
Part of the problem is so many noddy degrees and so many people attending regardless of academic suitability - anyone can get a BA in stuff like meejer studies or soshology.
I'd be happy for a list of subjects which are useful to society and meet its needs - Engineering, Medicine, Chemistry etc, and have those fully funded. If you want to do a degree in face painting or pizza box design, then go ahead, but you have to pay for it.
But of course, who decides what goes on the list?
Good points, well made "
Although thinking about it, lots of people seem to think the government should set an "Australian based points system" for which immigrants the country needs. So surely the same principles would help decide which skills the country needs? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Yes many young people don't know what they want to do. Maybe this will help them focus more and think through choices? We can't continue funding degrees for those who don't need them or for those degrees that aren't useful for a specific career. As a country we need to use the taxes received sensibly.
Personally I think linking certain skills shortages with degrees courses I.e medicine makes perfect sense. But not all highly skilled jobs necessarily need degrees.
Vocational, experience based education is equally valuable. And that doesn't attract the same level of fees or funding x |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Yes many young people don't know what they want to do. Maybe this will help them focus more and think through choices? We can't continue funding degrees for those who don't need them or for those degrees that aren't useful for a specific career. As a country we need to use the taxes received sensibly.
Personally I think linking certain skills shortages with degrees courses I.e medicine makes perfect sense. But not all highly skilled jobs necessarily need degrees.
Vocational, experience based education is equally valuable. And that doesn't attract the same level of fees or funding x"
When I was 18, the information available on career paths was absolutely rubbish.
It's not something you can really trust the government or schools to advise kids on anyway because some of the reality is very non-PC. At some stage you need to sit down with a teenager and say "look if you want to go into financial services, it pays well but you will have to work with a lot of cock wombles" or "if you want to be a policeman then you're actually going to do more paperwork than busting bad guys" and by the way "nursing is really tiring and the pay is shit". |
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"Yes many young people don't know what they want to do. Maybe this will help them focus more and think through choices? We can't continue funding degrees for those who don't need them or for those degrees that aren't useful for a specific career. As a country we need to use the taxes received sensibly.
Personally I think linking certain skills shortages with degrees courses I.e medicine makes perfect sense. But not all highly skilled jobs necessarily need degrees.
Vocational, experience based education is equally valuable. And that doesn't attract the same level of fees or funding x
When I was 18, the information available on career paths was absolutely rubbish.
It's not something you can really trust the government or schools to advise kids on anyway because some of the reality is very non-PC. At some stage you need to sit down with a teenager and say "look if you want to go into financial services, it pays well but you will have to work with a lot of cock wombles" or "if you want to be a policeman then you're actually going to do more paperwork than busting bad guys" and by the way "nursing is really tiring and the pay is shit". "
Sounds like you got the same career advice at school as I did .. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Yes many young people don't know what they want to do. Maybe this will help them focus more and think through choices? We can't continue funding degrees for those who don't need them or for those degrees that aren't useful for a specific career. As a country we need to use the taxes received sensibly.
Personally I think linking certain skills shortages with degrees courses I.e medicine makes perfect sense. But not all highly skilled jobs necessarily need degrees.
Vocational, experience based education is equally valuable. And that doesn't attract the same level of fees or funding x
When I was 18, the information available on career paths was absolutely rubbish.
It's not something you can really trust the government or schools to advise kids on anyway because some of the reality is very non-PC. At some stage you need to sit down with a teenager and say "look if you want to go into financial services, it pays well but you will have to work with a lot of cock wombles" or "if you want to be a policeman then you're actually going to do more paperwork than busting bad guys" and by the way "nursing is really tiring and the pay is shit". "
Yes I agree their needs to be more advice about careers  the downsides as well as the positives
Until perceptions of vocational versus academic education is addressed, advice will be biased.
I think this is in many ways linked to the loss of our manufacturing industries x |
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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago
Hereford |
I don't want to see more "vocational" dregrees.
As has been said, very few 19 yr olds actually know what they want to do. I feel that academic degrees in a subject you enjoy are the way to increase the nations itellectual capital and give a rough idea of a field a graduate might want to persue, but given the difficulty of academic degrees, the students intellect should be enough to then apply themselves in their chosen career. |
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"I know, it's a real shame, though the student loan is a safe one in that you only start paying when you earn over a certain amount. In that sense, it operates more like a graduate tax.
It costs a lot to run a university and someone has to pay.
Part of the problem is so many noddy degrees and so many people attending regardless of academic suitability - anyone can get a BA in stuff like meejer studies or soshology.
"
But there's the problem, universities have moved from the dissemination of knowledge to providing a service to paying customers. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I've found that a lot of undergrads I work with in the uni environment wish there was a middle ground.
Especially those who are coming from low income/low-middle income households who are struggling to make ends meet, and so uni is a really assessment of the value of attending.
I work with people accross Biological sciences so these are hardly non-academic degrees. But even they are saying they wish there was something to do after A-levels to train in a scientific field, then go to uni if they want to refine and apply industrial/work knowledge to academia and research. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"I know, it's a real shame, though the student loan is a safe one in that you only start paying when you earn over a certain amount. In that sense, it operates more like a graduate tax.
It costs a lot to run a university and someone has to pay.
Part of the problem is so many noddy degrees and so many people attending regardless of academic suitability - anyone can get a BA in stuff like meejer studies or soshology.
But there's the problem, universities have moved from the dissemination of knowledge to providing a service to paying customers."
Maybe at your university. At mine teaching was an incovience to the lecturers that distracted them from their 'real work' of publishing papers |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"I've found that a lot of undergrads I work with in the uni environment wish there was a middle ground.
Especially those who are coming from low income/low-middle income households who are struggling to make ends meet, and so uni is a really assessment of the value of attending.
I work with people accross Biological sciences so these are hardly non-academic degrees. But even they are saying they wish there was something to do after A-levels to train in a scientific field, then go to uni if they want to refine and apply industrial/work knowledge to academia and research."
The entire first year of my degree was a complete rip off for anyone that did the subject at A level. Pure repeat and the first year grades don't even count towards your final degree.
I didn't turn up for the vast majority of it and once I'd passed the first year without turning up then never saw the point of changing for the remainder. University was really just a safe space to experiment with things but the learning was minimal, so yes a middle ground would be much better. I would have rather started work aged 18 and done a part time degree but that wasn't an option. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Fooking hell!
I graduated 9 years ago having paid £1,000 a year. The same course is now likely to be £9,250 a year!
And they said we've got low inflation!!! "
Only in England, although Scottish students can still study in England for free
.
So I guess its only for some students in England |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I know, it's a real shame, though the student loan is a safe one in that you only start paying when you earn over a certain amount. In that sense, it operates more like a graduate tax."
.
The government is still paying the vast amount of university fees in the short term!.
I've said it before and it's still true..... What there actually doing is funding debt and creating money, 4 billion of uni debt forked out by government creates 40 billon of money once the fractional reserve comes into the system! |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I know, it's a real shame, though the student loan is a safe one in that you only start paying when you earn over a certain amount. In that sense, it operates more like a graduate tax..
The government is still paying the vast amount of university fees in the short term!.
I've said it before and it's still true..... What there actually doing is funding debt and creating money, 4 billion of uni debt forked out by government creates 40 billon of money once the fractional reserve comes into the system!"
Is that good or bad? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I've found that a lot of undergrads I work with in the uni environment wish there was a middle ground.
Especially those who are coming from low income/low-middle income households who are struggling to make ends meet, and so uni is a really assessment of the value of attending.
I work with people accross Biological sciences so these are hardly non-academic degrees. But even they are saying they wish there was something to do after A-levels to train in a scientific field, then go to uni if they want to refine and apply industrial/work knowledge to academia and research.
The entire first year of my degree was a complete rip off for anyone that did the subject at A level. Pure repeat and the first year grades don't even count towards your final degree.
I didn't turn up for the vast majority of it and once I'd passed the first year without turning up then never saw the point of changing for the remainder. University was really just a safe space to experiment with things but the learning was minimal, so yes a middle ground would be much better. I would have rather started work aged 18 and done a part time degree but that wasn't an option. "
Same here, I would have rather worked in an NHS research lab to learn the ropes, or worked with a private company, at least then you know what both pathways are like. Then someone can decide whether learning in industry is what they want to peruse, or whether they want to be a researcher.
And yes, my family in Scandinavia and friends in Spain think that the weighting and organisation of our degrees are terribly put together. As you said, your first year is usually just making sure everyone who did different A-level syllabuses has covered the same thing. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Yes many young people don't know what they want to do. Maybe this will help them focus more and think through choices? We can't continue funding degrees for those who don't need them or for those degrees that aren't useful for a specific career. As a country we need to use the taxes received sensibly.
Personally I think linking certain skills shortages with degrees courses I.e medicine makes perfect sense. But not all highly skilled jobs necessarily need degrees.
Vocational, experience based education is equally valuable. And that doesn't attract the same level of fees or funding x
When I was 18, the information available on career paths was absolutely rubbish.
It's not something you can really trust the government or schools to advise kids on anyway because some of the reality is very non-PC. At some stage you need to sit down with a teenager and say "look if you want to go into financial services, it pays well but you will have to work with a lot of cock wombles" or "if you want to be a policeman then you're actually going to do more paperwork than busting bad guys" and by the way "nursing is really tiring and the pay is shit".
Sounds like you got the same career advice at school as I did .."
Back in the day (post Stone Age, honest) we got a visit from a careers advisor who gave us a questionnaire. The answers were put into a computer and we were given a printed piece of paper (you know, those print outs with holes down each side).
My number one advised career was ... Museum curator.
Hmmmm. I suspect I would still have been waiting for that post to come up 50 years later. |
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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago
bournemouth |
"I don't want to see more "vocational" dregrees.
As has been said, very few 19 yr olds actually know what they want to do. I feel that academic degrees in a subject you enjoy are the way to increase the nations itellectual capital and give a rough idea of a field a graduate might want to persue, but given the difficulty of academic degrees, the students intellect should be enough to then apply themselves in their chosen career. "
Wasnt it a couple of years ago that network rail or some such national organisation chucked out 25% of applicants from graduates because of basic spelling and grammar errors so no I don't agree that is the case.We need people that can "do" a job that can be very different from having a qualification that says you have been trained |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I don't want to see more "vocational" dregrees.
As has been said, very few 19 yr olds actually know what they want to do. I feel that academic degrees in a subject you enjoy are the way to increase the nations itellectual capital and give a rough idea of a field a graduate might want to persue, but given the difficulty of academic degrees, the students intellect should be enough to then apply themselves in their chosen career.
Wasnt it a couple of years ago that network rail or some such national organisation chucked out 25% of applicants from graduates because of basic spelling and grammar errors so no I don't agree that is the case.We need people that can "do" a job that can be very different from having a qualification that says you have been trained"
10 - 15 years on job experience is considered (job expert) to many oil companies & corporations, the consider this a degree qualification |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Yes many young people don't know what they want to do. Maybe this will help them focus more and think through choices? We can't continue funding degrees for those who don't need them or for those degrees that aren't useful for a specific career. As a country we need to use the taxes received sensibly.
Personally I think linking certain skills shortages with degrees courses I.e medicine makes perfect sense. But not all highly skilled jobs necessarily need degrees.
Vocational, experience based education is equally valuable. And that doesn't attract the same level of fees or funding x
When I was 18, the information available on career paths was absolutely rubbish.
It's not something you can really trust the government or schools to advise kids on anyway because some of the reality is very non-PC. At some stage you need to sit down with a teenager and say "look if you want to go into financial services, it pays well but you will have to work with a lot of cock wombles" or "if you want to be a policeman then you're actually going to do more paperwork than busting bad guys" and by the way "nursing is really tiring and the pay is shit".
Sounds like you got the same career advice at school as I did ..
Back in the day (post Stone Age, honest) we got a visit from a careers advisor who gave us a questionnaire. The answers were put into a computer and we were given a printed piece of paper (you know, those print outs with holes down each side).
My number one advised career was ... Museum curator.
Hmmmm. I suspect I would still have been waiting for that post to come up 50 years later."
Exactly, there's rarely any realism put into the advice. It's was largely ignored anyway because every girl at school was convinced they would become a fashion model and the boys were all destined to become footballers. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I know, it's a real shame, though the student loan is a safe one in that you only start paying when you earn over a certain amount. In that sense, it operates more like a graduate tax..
The government is still paying the vast amount of university fees in the short term!.
I've said it before and it's still true..... What there actually doing is funding debt and creating money, 4 billion of uni debt forked out by government creates 40 billon of money once the fractional reserve comes into the system!
Is that good or bad? "
.
That my friend is the million dollar question? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"I know, it's a real shame, though the student loan is a safe one in that you only start paying when you earn over a certain amount. In that sense, it operates more like a graduate tax..
The government is still paying the vast amount of university fees in the short term!.
I've said it before and it's still true..... What there actually doing is funding debt and creating money, 4 billion of uni debt forked out by government creates 40 billon of money once the fractional reserve comes into the system!
Is that good or bad? .
That my friend is the million dollar question?"
I'd like to use my 50:50 please Chris |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I know, it's a real shame, though the student loan is a safe one in that you only start paying when you earn over a certain amount. In that sense, it operates more like a graduate tax..
The government is still paying the vast amount of university fees in the short term!.
I've said it before and it's still true..... What there actually doing is funding debt and creating money, 4 billion of uni debt forked out by government creates 40 billon of money once the fractional reserve comes into the system!
Is that good or bad? .
That my friend is the million dollar question?
I'd like to use my 50:50 please Chris "
.
It's basically a pyramid scheme at heart, you create money through commerce (loans) and the scheme expands but eventually you run out of people to fill the bottom rung... You have to keep expanding the debt or the whole thing collapses(principle plus interest).
Eventually your forced to create stupid debt after normal means have exhausted..... Hence the house bubble expansion , student loan expansion, immigrant expansion.... The minute you can't get the bottom row of the pyramid bigger the whole thing falls down..
Bottom line, it's a great idea but no real answer to the finality of it?.
 |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"I wish that was all I paid for my education  "
No offence but America has great universities... for those that can afford them. It's not a system I'd want here. |
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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago
Hereford |
"I've found that a lot of undergrads I work with in the uni environment wish there was a middle ground.
Especially those who are coming from low income/low-middle income households who are struggling to make ends meet, and so uni is a really assessment of the value of attending.
I work with people accross Biological sciences so these are hardly non-academic degrees. But even they are saying they wish there was something to do after A-levels to train in a scientific field, then go to uni if they want to refine and apply industrial/work knowledge to academia and research.
The entire first year of my degree was a complete rip off for anyone that did the subject at A level. Pure repeat and the first year grades don't even count towards your final degree.
I didn't turn up for the vast majority of it and once I'd passed the first year without turning up then never saw the point of changing for the remainder. University was really just a safe space to experiment with things but the learning was minimal, so yes a middle ground would be much better. I would have rather started work aged 18 and done a part time degree but that wasn't an option. "
That is in complete contrast to mine, I have to say. The first year was definitley covering a broader, basic curriculum, but it went beyond a-level by some margin. We also had at least three practicals a week (uauslly went on all afternoon), which culminated in some form od assessment. This was on top of lectures.
Coursework/papers/pracs had to be written up in a certain way, points were attributed for scientific style. Missing a dealine meant zero marks for that piece of work, unless you had a note from your doctor. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"I've found that a lot of undergrads I work with in the uni environment wish there was a middle ground.
Especially those who are coming from low income/low-middle income households who are struggling to make ends meet, and so uni is a really assessment of the value of attending.
I work with people accross Biological sciences so these are hardly non-academic degrees. But even they are saying they wish there was something to do after A-levels to train in a scientific field, then go to uni if they want to refine and apply industrial/work knowledge to academia and research.
The entire first year of my degree was a complete rip off for anyone that did the subject at A level. Pure repeat and the first year grades don't even count towards your final degree.
I didn't turn up for the vast majority of it and once I'd passed the first year without turning up then never saw the point of changing for the remainder. University was really just a safe space to experiment with things but the learning was minimal, so yes a middle ground would be much better. I would have rather started work aged 18 and done a part time degree but that wasn't an option.
That is in complete contrast to mine, I have to say. The first year was definitley covering a broader, basic curriculum, but it went beyond a-level by some margin. We also had at least three practicals a week (uauslly went on all afternoon), which culminated in some form od assessment. This was on top of lectures.
Coursework/papers/pracs had to be written up in a certain way, points were attributed for scientific style. Missing a dealine meant zero marks for that piece of work, unless you had a note from your doctor. "
Which subject was that? |
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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago
Hereford |
"I've found that a lot of undergrads I work with in the uni environment wish there was a middle ground.
Especially those who are coming from low income/low-middle income households who are struggling to make ends meet, and so uni is a really assessment of the value of attending.
I work with people accross Biological sciences so these are hardly non-academic degrees. But even they are saying they wish there was something to do after A-levels to train in a scientific field, then go to uni if they want to refine and apply industrial/work knowledge to academia and research.
The entire first year of my degree was a complete rip off for anyone that did the subject at A level. Pure repeat and the first year grades don't even count towards your final degree.
I didn't turn up for the vast majority of it and once I'd passed the first year without turning up then never saw the point of changing for the remainder. University was really just a safe space to experiment with things but the learning was minimal, so yes a middle ground would be much better. I would have rather started work aged 18 and done a part time degree but that wasn't an option.
That is in complete contrast to mine, I have to say. The first year was definitley covering a broader, basic curriculum, but it went beyond a-level by some margin. We also had at least three practicals a week (uauslly went on all afternoon), which culminated in some form od assessment. This was on top of lectures.
Coursework/papers/pracs had to be written up in a certain way, points were attributed for scientific style. Missing a dealine meant zero marks for that piece of work, unless you had a note from your doctor.
Which subject was that? "
Marine and Freshwater Biology. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Although, to add. Those things were standard across the entire institute of biological sciences."
To be fair, the main shock was writing in the academic style and referencing everything. In the first month we all had the shock horror that you can't reference Wikipedia! Which ironically is statically more likely to be reliable than a journal for certain topics anyway. But nah the subject matter in year 1 was identical.
Funnily enough one of my old professors was on the key economic ls advisers to the Brexit campaign and it was funny seeing his name mentioned during that grand debate - because frankly his work is bollocks |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I wish that was all I paid for my education
No offence but America has great universities... for those that can afford them. It's not a system I'd want here. "
No offense taken. I hate the US university system.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I wish that was all I paid for my education "
.
I'm not entirely sure but didn't I read that in the US, university debt is the only debt you can't purge through personal bankruptcy? |
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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago
Hereford |
"Although, to add. Those things were standard across the entire institute of biological sciences.
To be fair, the main shock was writing in the academic style and referencing everything. In the first month we all had the shock horror that you can't reference Wikipedia! Which ironically is statically more likely to be reliable than a journal for certain topics anyway. But nah the subject matter in year 1 was identical.
Funnily enough one of my old professors was on the key economic ls advisers to the Brexit campaign and it was funny seeing his name mentioned during that grand debate - because frankly his work is bollocks"
Not even sure that Wikipedia was about when I was at uni... You certainly couldn't reference websites though. I don't think (I'm a bit sketchy now) they minded you referencing secondary sources at that stage, but it certainy wasn't acceptable by the 2nd year. |
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Yep - it stinks.
I was the last year to get a grant - remember those? - and was chatting to the 3rd year US exchange student who was in $36k debt, which I thought appalling.
Par for the course now.
Problem is:
1/ Blair's g'ment thought it would be wonderful if 50% of college leavers went to university, debasing the degree
2/ mummy and daddy need deep pockets to fund course fees and living
3/ or you get into £40-£50k debt (I know you only pay back over a certain level but it's the equivalent of an extra 11% tax on top of your other taxes).
So much for social mobility.
And then you get shit-holes like London Southbank University charging £11,600 undergraduate fees. Those degrees aren't worth the toilet paper they're written on.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Young people in this country are fucked they get into debt to get a good education and a great start in life finish uni if they can't get a mortgage then it's paying extortionate rent prices on top of all that they still have a save for deposit for the mortgage well trying to live there's lives .most of young people's problems come down to greed from the older generation |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I wish that was all I paid for my education .
I'm not entirely sure but didn't I read that in the US, university debt is the only debt you can't purge through personal bankruptcy?"
Bush changed the rules to include medical debt in there, too. I'm a few years away from paying off my student loans. I think I'll be more proud on that day than I was when I graduated |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"I wish that was all I paid for my education .
I'm not entirely sure but didn't I read that in the US, university debt is the only debt you can't purge through personal bankruptcy?
Bush changed the rules to include medical debt in there, too. I'm a few years away from paying off my student loans. I think I'll be more proud on that day than I was when I graduated "
That is impressive! I think I was 28 when I paid off my student loan but it was only about £14k |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I wish that was all I paid for my education .
I'm not entirely sure but didn't I read that in the US, university debt is the only debt you can't purge through personal bankruptcy?
Bush changed the rules to include medical debt in there, too. I'm a few years away from paying off my student loans. I think I'll be more proud on that day than I was when I graduated
That is impressive! I think I was 28 when I paid off my student loan but it was only about £14k"
that's a lot of crayons  |
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"I was the last year to get a grant - remember those?
"
i remember grants
i remember full grants
i remember full grants and housing benefit
i remember full grants and housing benefit and signing-on during the holidays
i remember full grants and housing benefit and signing-on by post during the holidays
i remember full grants and housing benefit and signing-on by post and getting a mate to post the coupons every 2 weeks and getting them to put the giros into a post office account while lying around on a beach in Goa for 13 weeks during the summer ..... halcyon days
then i remember the placard waving and the shouting of "Ken Clarke - loan shark" en masse
what was your point? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"I wish that was all I paid for my education .
I'm not entirely sure but didn't I read that in the US, university debt is the only debt you can't purge through personal bankruptcy?
Bush changed the rules to include medical debt in there, too. I'm a few years away from paying off my student loans. I think I'll be more proud on that day than I was when I graduated
That is impressive! I think I was 28 when I paid off my student loan but it was only about £14k
that's a lot of crayons "
The colouring books aren't free you know! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I wish that was all I paid for my education .
I'm not entirely sure but didn't I read that in the US, university debt is the only debt you can't purge through personal bankruptcy?
Bush changed the rules to include medical debt in there, too. I'm a few years away from paying off my student loans. I think I'll be more proud on that day than I was when I graduated
That is impressive! I think I was 28 when I paid off my student loan but it was only about £14k
that's a lot of crayons
The colouring books aren't free you know! "
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I know it is slightly off topic...
But...
Did anyone notice that at the same time as announcing the 3% rise in tuition fees a cut of 1.5% per pupil in school funding was announced. Also the closing of the UK Commission for Employment and Skills, and the ending the course fees and bursaries paid to nursing students and making them use the standard student support system for fee loans and living costs support.
Seems every part of the education system for the masses is being attacked. |
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"I know it is slightly off topic...
But...
Did anyone notice that at the same time as announcing the 3% rise in tuition fees a cut of 1.5% per pupil in school funding was announced. Also the closing of the UK Commission for Employment and Skills, and the ending the course fees and bursaries paid to nursing students and making them use the standard student support system for fee loans and living costs support.
Seems every part of the education system for the masses is being attacked."
Could it be the government plan to use the overseas educated people and keep the uneducated citizens for less appealing work ... |
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"I was the last year to get a grant - remember those?
i remember grants
i remember full grants
i remember full grants and housing benefit
i remember full grants and housing benefit and signing-on during the holidays
i remember full grants and housing benefit and signing-on by post during the holidays
i remember full grants and housing benefit and signing-on by post and getting a mate to post the coupons every 2 weeks and getting them to put the giros into a post office account while lying around on a beach in Goa for 13 weeks during the summer ..... halcyon days
then i remember the placard waving and the shouting of "Ken Clarke - loan shark" en masse
what was your point?"
I think your university experience might have been a little different to mine - I worked as well. |
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With the rise in robots and other technologies removing many future jobs then having a valuable well educated workforce keeps more people earning highly as well as helping the country to increase its competitiveness against others.
Student loans are sold on to debt companies and the contractual terms changed, at the whim of the government.
Increased fees do deter people from poorer homes from achieving their potential, as they're reluctant to engage with huge debt that is not subject to one unchanging contractual term.
We potentially can fall below the standards of many other countries that we compete with, when we value education as unimportant. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Why can England not be like Scotland and give free education the students?
.
surely this will pay off in the long run with better jobs and higher tax bracket?
. |
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"Why can England not be like Scotland and give free education the students?
.
surely this will pay off in the long run with better jobs and higher tax bracket?
."
It's would be an ideal situation but Scotland is a heavily subsidised country so can afford to offer free tuition. Things may have changed but the way this was set up was that Scottish students and students from other EU countries have free tuition but students from England, Wales and Northern Ireland have to pay in Scottish universities so this will go some way to offset costs. |
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"Things may have changed but the way this was set up was that Scottish students and students from other EU countries have free tuition but students from England, Wales and Northern Ireland have to pay in Scottish universities so this will go some way to offset costs."
Welsh students costs are covered by the Welsh government  |
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By *alcon43Woman
over a year ago
Paisley |
"I don't want to see more "vocational" dregrees.
As has been said, very few 19 yr olds actually know what they want to do. I feel that academic degrees in a subject you enjoy are the way to increase the nations itellectual capital and give a rough idea of a field a graduate might want to persue, but given the difficulty of academic degrees, the students intellect should be enough to then apply themselves in their chosen career. "
Vocational degrees are essential. Without them you wouldn't have certain careers eg nurses, doctors, vets, opticians, Physiotherapists, etc. Many careers require degrees to gain membership to professional bodies, state registration, etc.
Whilst I agree that many degrees eg social sciences are too general to be used in a career the skills learned whilst studying are what's important.
Numbers of students on courses are usually regulated by the funding council. Additional fee paying students from out with the EU are attractive as they pay higher fees. Exiting the EU will affect the students who currently enjoy reduced fees as part of the EU.
I work beside colleagues in their 30's still paying off student loans. Stops them from being able to afford a mortgage. |
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By *andACouple
over a year ago
glasgow |
"Why can England not be like Scotland and give free education the students?
.
surely this will pay off in the long run with better jobs and higher tax bracket?
."
English universities are outperforming Scotish ones in terms of the number of disadvantaged students they have, and the gap is widening. The SNP's policy, which was supposed to support disadvantaged groups has had the opposite effect. To fund it the number of bursaries has had to be cut drastically and huge numbers of college places (over 50,000) have also been cut. This has greatly reduced the opportunities for those it was supposed to help.
Unfortunately the SNP government will never admit to any mistakes so they'll continue with this policy while ignoring the actual outcomes. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Going to the university in sweden is free, to eu students.
That'll be why your taxes are so bloody high then That is right, the tax is abit high."
What's it like buying a car over there? In Norway the taxes mean that you need something ridiculous like £80k to get a semi-decent car |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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University Fees are still free in Scotland and if these Scottish Universities are good enough for our future king then they are in fine placing to teach our fellow scots |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Going to the university in sweden is free, to eu students.
That'll be why your taxes are so bloody high then That is right, the tax is abit high.
What's it like buying a car over there? In Norway the taxes mean that you need something ridiculous like £80k to get a semi-decent car"
Not sure, how much a car is in sweden, but I think it is the almost the same as in norway and yeah that is expensive aint it? How is the taxes in norway, is it the same in sweden, 50%? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Going to the university in sweden is free, to eu students.
That'll be why your taxes are so bloody high then That is right, the tax is abit high.
What's it like buying a car over there? In Norway the taxes mean that you need something ridiculous like £80k to get a semi-decent carNot sure, how much a car is in sweden, but I think it is the almost the same as in norway and yeah that is expensive aint it? How is the taxes in norway, is it the same in sweden, 50%?"
55% and VAT is 25%. It's one of the most heavily taxed countries in the world which is why the looney left cream over it.
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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago
Hereford |
"I don't want to see more "vocational" dregrees.
As has been said, very few 19 yr olds actually know what they want to do. I feel that academic degrees in a subject you enjoy are the way to increase the nations itellectual capital and give a rough idea of a field a graduate might want to persue, but given the difficulty of academic degrees, the students intellect should be enough to then apply themselves in their chosen career.
Vocational degrees are essential. Without them you wouldn't have certain careers eg nurses, doctors, vets, opticians, Physiotherapists, etc. Many careers require degrees to gain membership to professional bodies, state registration, etc.
Whilst I agree that many degrees eg social sciences are too general to be used in a career the skills learned whilst studying are what's important.
Numbers of students on courses are usually regulated by the funding council. Additional fee paying students from out with the EU are attractive as they pay higher fees. Exiting the EU will affect the students who currently enjoy reduced fees as part of the EU.
I work beside colleagues in their 30's still paying off student loans. Stops them from being able to afford a mortgage. "
I think that you are getting professional degrees and vocational ones mixed up a bit there.
And anyway, I said I didn't want to see any more of them, not that I didn't want the continuation of essential ones... |
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Only just seen this thread but heres my take
While i believe whole heartrdly that some students should have their fees paid to enable them to go i really dont think we should be paying for rich kids to go .
One solution bring back free courses and reduce student loans most of which get spent on beer anyway and more importantly most never get paid back |
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By *alcon43Woman
over a year ago
Paisley |
"I don't want to see more "vocational" dregrees.
As has been said, very few 19 yr olds actually know what they want to do. I feel that academic degrees in a subject you enjoy are the way to increase the nations itellectual capital and give a rough idea of a field a graduate might want to persue, but given the difficulty of academic degrees, the students intellect should be enough to then apply themselves in their chosen career.
Vocational degrees are essential. Without them you wouldn't have certain careers eg nurses, doctors, vets, opticians, Physiotherapists, etc. Many careers require degrees to gain membership to professional bodies, state registration, etc.
Whilst I agree that many degrees eg social sciences are too general to be used in a career the skills learned whilst studying are what's important.
Numbers of students on courses are usually regulated by the funding council. Additional fee paying students from out with the EU are attractive as they pay higher fees. Exiting the EU will affect the students who currently enjoy reduced fees as part of the EU.
I work beside colleagues in their 30's still paying off student loans. Stops them from being able to afford a mortgage.
I think that you are getting professional degrees and vocational ones mixed up a bit there.
And anyway, I said I didn't want to see any more of them, not that I didn't want the continuation of essential ones..."
Definition of Vocational education is education that prepares people to work in a trade, in a craft, as a technician, or in support roles in professions such as engineering, accountancy, nursing, medicine, architecture, or law.
Think you'll find that covers professional degrees ! I worked for 17 years in a university which was mainly vocational courses. I do know what I'm talking about. |
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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago
Hereford |
"I don't want to see more "vocational" dregrees.
As has been said, very few 19 yr olds actually know what they want to do. I feel that academic degrees in a subject you enjoy are the way to increase the nations itellectual capital and give a rough idea of a field a graduate might want to persue, but given the difficulty of academic degrees, the students intellect should be enough to then apply themselves in their chosen career.
Vocational degrees are essential. Without them you wouldn't have certain careers eg nurses, doctors, vets, opticians, Physiotherapists, etc. Many careers require degrees to gain membership to professional bodies, state registration, etc.
Whilst I agree that many degrees eg social sciences are too general to be used in a career the skills learned whilst studying are what's important.
Numbers of students on courses are usually regulated by the funding council. Additional fee paying students from out with the EU are attractive as they pay higher fees. Exiting the EU will affect the students who currently enjoy reduced fees as part of the EU.
I work beside colleagues in their 30's still paying off student loans. Stops them from being able to afford a mortgage.
I think that you are getting professional degrees and vocational ones mixed up a bit there.
And anyway, I said I didn't want to see any more of them, not that I didn't want the continuation of essential ones...
Definition of Vocational education is education that prepares people to work in a trade, in a craft, as a technician, or in support roles in professions such as engineering, accountancy, nursing, medicine, architecture, or law.
Think you'll find that covers professional degrees ! I worked for 17 years in a university which was mainly vocational courses. I do know what I'm talking about. "
Exactly...I'd not include medicine (human or vetinary) or law in a list of vocational degrees. |
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"I know, it's a real shame, though the student loan is a safe one in that you only start paying when you earn over a certain amount. In that sense, it operates more like a graduate tax.
It costs a lot to run a university and someone has to pay.
Part of the problem is so many noddy degrees and so many people attending regardless of academic suitability - anyone can get a BA in stuff like meejer studies or soshology.
I'd be happy for a list of subjects which are useful to society and meet its needs - Engineering, Medicine, Chemistry etc, and have those fully funded. If you want to do a degree in face painting or pizza box design, then go ahead, but you have to pay for it.
But of course, who decides what goes on the list?"
Very well said, we should never have got rid of the
Poly's all of this is labours fault, as they said Uni for all. Let's be truthful it's genuine well supported apprenticeships that we need more off, not uni's |
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"Why can England not be like Scotland and give free education the students?
.
surely this will pay off in the long run with better jobs and higher tax bracket?
.
English universities are outperforming Scotish ones in terms of the number of disadvantaged students they have, and the gap is widening. The SNP's policy, which was supposed to support disadvantaged groups has had the opposite effect. To fund it the number of bursaries has had to be cut drastically and huge numbers of college places (over 50,000) have also been cut. This has greatly reduced the opportunities for those it was supposed to help.
Unfortunately the SNP government will never admit to any mistakes so they'll continue with this policy while ignoring the actual outcomes."
Unfortunately whilst the SNP is headed up by Mrs Cranky and her side kick fish, whose only mantra is to get Scottish independance at any cost, it will be just be a mad hatters T Party |
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"I know it is slightly off topic...
But...
Did anyone notice that at the same time as announcing the 3% rise in tuition fees a cut of 1.5% per pupil in school funding was announced. Also the closing of the UK Commission for Employment and Skills, and the ending the course fees and bursaries paid to nursing students and making them use the standard student support system for fee loans and living costs support.
Seems every part of the education system for the masses is being attacked.
Could it be the government plan to use the overseas educated people and keep the uneducated citizens for less appealing work ..."
Klaxon alert..... A lefty whines |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I know it is slightly off topic...
But...
Did anyone notice that at the same time as announcing the 3% rise in tuition fees a cut of 1.5% per pupil in school funding was announced. Also the closing of the UK Commission for Employment and Skills, and the ending the course fees and bursaries paid to nursing students and making them use the standard student support system for fee loans and living costs support.
Seems every part of the education system for the masses is being attacked.
Could it be the government plan to use the overseas educated people and keep the uneducated citizens for less appealing work ...
Klaxon alert..... A lefty whines"
Must be an English lefty as they have to pay for education, perhaps this encourages students to focus more in there work
Thankfully Scotland has free education at university level |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"I know it is slightly off topic...
But...
Did anyone notice that at the same time as announcing the 3% rise in tuition fees a cut of 1.5% per pupil in school funding was announced. Also the closing of the UK Commission for Employment and Skills, and the ending the course fees and bursaries paid to nursing students and making them use the standard student support system for fee loans and living costs support.
Seems every part of the education system for the masses is being attacked.
Could it be the government plan to use the overseas educated people and keep the uneducated citizens for less appealing work ...
Klaxon alert..... A lefty whines
Must be an English lefty as they have to pay for education, perhaps this encourages students to focus more in there work
Thankfully Scotland has free education at university level"
Yeah but once lefties are done complaining about one thing they move on to the next. That's why there's so much opposition to trident in Scotland, they've run out of genuine grievances to protest. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
It's funny that the good folks in the westminster funny farm that were uber keen to slap a nice big fee for education were the ones that got it for free. they should dig into their bulging wallets and give the going rate to the uni they graduated from, if they think it's a top idea to pay for education then it's time for them to pay |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"It's funny that the good folks in the westminster funny farm that were uber keen to slap a nice big fee for education were the ones that got it for free. they should dig into their bulging wallets and give the going rate to the uni they graduated from, if they think it's a top idea to pay for education then it's time for them to pay "
And meanwhile its the English taxpayer funding free Scottish University tuition. Universities where English students are charged a fee ... Hmmm ..  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"It's funny that the good folks in the westminster funny farm that were uber keen to slap a nice big fee for education were the ones that got it for free. they should dig into their bulging wallets and give the going rate to the uni they graduated from, if they think it's a top idea to pay for education then it's time for them to pay
And meanwhile its the English taxpayer funding free Scottish University tuition. Universities where English students are charged a fee ... Hmmm .. "
better together
england wanted to keep scotland under the thumb of enblish rule then dig deep and pay and pay and pay nothing better than the south footing the bill , all in the interests of better to gether you understand |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Yes Scotland does have "free" university education.....but at a cost.we have lost 150k college places and a downsizing is in evidence in all schools......class sizes are rising and teachers leaving posts at an alarming rate....so far from the land of milk and honey it may appear to be from afar.I do agree though that it is a terrible indictment of our governments that this has happened. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Yes Scotland does have "free" university education.....but at a cost.we have lost 150k college places and a downsizing is in evidence in all schools......class sizes are rising and teachers leaving posts at an alarming rate....so far from the land of milk and honey it may appear to be from afar.I do agree though that it is a terrible indictment of our governments that this has happened. "
what size are school classes today?
when I was in primary there were 12 in class, when I went up to high school we had a much larger class of 18
My niece is in secondary just now as a high school in Cupar and class size of 20, I guess there is much less one on one tuition when large classes of 20 students |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Watching university challenge these days and hearing what some of them are studying too fucking right they should pay for it "
Who are you to decide that the country has more need for physics graduates than graduates in lesbian dance studies? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Watching university challenge these days and hearing what some of them are studying too fucking right they should pay for it
Who are you to decide that the country has more need for physics graduates than graduates in lesbian dance studies?"
Learning to Surf was the best lesson I even learned in life (and still living the dream) |
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"Watching university challenge these days and hearing what some of them are studying too fucking right they should pay for it
Who are you to decide that the country has more need for physics graduates than graduates in lesbian dance studies?"
I didnt say that did i but surely the idea behind university is expanding knowledge and broadening of horizons with an emphasis on enabling you to get on in life, and lets face it there are now courses out there which are of no use whatsoever in the real world ie harry potter studies, devid beckham studies, star trek studies and even beyonce studiesand i personally do not think taxpayers money shouls subsidise this style of course but then i dont disagree with tuition fees just think they should be means tested |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Watching university challenge these days and hearing what some of them are studying too fucking right they should pay for it
Who are you to decide that the country has more need for physics graduates than graduates in lesbian dance studies?
I didnt say that did i but surely the idea behind university is expanding knowledge and broadening of horizons with an emphasis on enabling you to get on in life, and lets face it there are now courses out there which are of no use whatsoever in the real world ie harry potter studies, devid beckham studies, star trek studies and even beyonce studiesand i personally do not think taxpayers money shouls subsidise this style of course but then i dont disagree with tuition fees just think they should be means tested"
Personally I think physics is an industry of the past and we should look to create the industries of the future here. The UK could be a hub for lesbian dance performances attracting investment and tourism from around the world. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Watching university challenge these days and hearing what some of them are studying too fucking right they should pay for it
Who are you to decide that the country has more need for physics graduates than graduates in lesbian dance studies?
I didnt say that did i but surely the idea behind university is expanding knowledge and broadening of horizons with an emphasis on enabling you to get on in life, and lets face it there are now courses out there which are of no use whatsoever in the real world ie harry potter studies, devid beckham studies, star trek studies and even beyonce studiesand i personally do not think taxpayers money shouls subsidise this style of course but then i dont disagree with tuition fees just think they should be means tested
Personally I think physics is an industry of the past and we should look to create the industries of the future here. The UK could be a hub for lesbian dance performances attracting investment and tourism from around the world. "
Stop stealing the dutch model. The government here (Netherlands) is a glorified pimp and drug dealer.
Have you taken a look at the dutch educational system? It wouldn't work in the UK of course without hard work but it has different tracks depending on the career you want. So you can have a tourism school for 16 year olds focussing on the right skills. Which leads to further education or jobs.
I was the lucky one who knew which area to go into. My career advisor app said I should make sandwiches for a living but I chose IT. Found the best universities for it and listened to the market demands throughout my education. Applied to all graduate schemes to get into the market.
The question is should we know what want to do at the age of 16 and make our own choices or do we need a nanny government that decides where the demand is. Like the Sorting Hat in Harry Potter. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Fooking hell!
I graduated 9 years ago having paid £1,000 a year. The same course is now likely to be £9,250 a year!
And they said we've got low inflation!!! "
.Scotland's Education Secretary John Swinney has told the SNP conference that students from EU countries starting in 2017/18 would pay no fees.
In July the minister said there would be no change to funding in 2016/17.
Guarantees were being sought by students after the UK voted to leave the European Union.
of course students from England will be required to pay full fees
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The guidelines for EU students are set by the EU, not Scotland, so there's no choice in the matter. Once Brexit is through, they will, I'm certain, pay."
I guess you cannot read correct, so I will let you have another attempt at reading, try a little slower this time
.
are you ready
.
here goes
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Scotland's Education Secretary John Swinney has told the SNP conference that students from EU countries starting in 2017/18 would pay no fees.
In July the minister said there would be no change to funding in 2016/17.
Guarantees were being sought by students after the UK voted to leave the European Union.
of course students from England will be required to pay full fees |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The guidelines for EU students are set by the EU, not Scotland, so there's no choice in the matter. Once Brexit is through, they will, I'm certain, pay.
I guess you cannot read correct, so I will let you have another attempt at reading, try a little slower this time
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are you ready
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here goes
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Scotland's Education Secretary John Swinney has told the SNP conference that students from EU countries starting in 2017/18 would pay no fees.
In July the minister said there would be no change to funding in 2016/17.
Guarantees were being sought by students after the UK voted to leave the European Union.
of course students from England will be required to pay full fees"
Your point, reader, is?
So long as the UK is in the EU, Scotland has to honour EU students not paying and by 2017 intake, the UK will still be in the EU. If England choses NOT to fund students, why should Scottish taxpayers fund English students in Scottish universities? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Fooking hell!
I graduated 9 years ago having paid £1,000 a year. The same course is now likely to be £9,250 a year!
And they said we've got low inflation!!! "
Something else to thank Blair, Brown and New Labour for. They had a manifesto promise to introduce legislation to prevent future governments increasing student top up fees but within weeks of election victory they did the exact opposite, lying b*****ds. |
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