FabSwingers.com > Forums > Politics > How do I pay £3 to vote for Corbyn?
How do I pay £3 to vote for Corbyn?
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By *ohnaron OP Man
over a year ago
london |
"Sign up to labour but there might be a cut off date this time round"
Thanks. Although in London we got to vote Labour we hate the poncified lavish life styles of the MPs without a fag paper between them and the Torys. |
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"£25 needed to become a registered member if you join after Feb this year
On the radio they said £3."
"Only pre-February Labour members get a vote
Posted at 21:03
Only people who joined Labour before February will be able to vote in the leadership contest, BBC chief political correspondent Vicki Young says. It looks like anyone who joined after then will have to pay an extra £25 to become a "registered supporter" - and will get a two-day window in which to sign up." |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Tell me how please."
Spend your money on a lottery ticket instead as you're more likely to win the jackpot than Corbyn is to survive as Labour leader let alone become PM.  |
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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"Tell me how please.
Spend your money on a lottery ticket instead as you're more likely to win the jackpot than Corbyn is to survive as Labour leader let alone become PM. "
If someone wants to exercise their ability to vote for something just let them.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Tell me how please.
Spend your money on a lottery ticket instead as you're more likely to win the jackpot than Corbyn is to survive as Labour leader let alone become PM.
If someone wants to exercise their ability to vote for something just let them.
"
Yes of course, I'll consider myself reprimanded.  |
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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"Well done Jeremy, for the win  "
He hasn't won yet. He's been added to the ballot and that inclusion will fuel others to fight. It's very sad that the party is ripping itself apart like this.
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"Tell me how please.
Spend your money on a lottery ticket instead as you're more likely to win the jackpot than Corbyn is to survive as Labour leader let alone become PM. "
Corbyn will but wont. The unions and loony left will make sure that he keeps the top job. That support though wont translate into electoral victory.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Sign up to labour but there might be a cut off date this time round plus he may not be on the list."
It's been confirmed that he's automatically on the list without needing 51 backers. |
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See I adore Jeremy and his style of politics, he represents the people, he doesn't take the mick with expenses, he has shown so much grace under pressure and he continues to fight for what the population wants rather than kowtowing to businesses and money.
Ultimately that's resulted in a lot of bad press, but you only have to look at social media to see a completely different side of reporting on him. I think he's perfectly capable of leading, just needs to get rid of some of the rubbish that's accumulated over the years.
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By *ohnaron OP Man
over a year ago
london |
"See I adore Jeremy and his style of politics, he represents the people, he doesn't take the mick with expenses, he has shown so much grace under pressure and he continues to fight for what the population wants rather than kowtowing to businesses and money.
Ultimately that's resulted in a lot of bad press, but you only have to look at social media to see a completely different side of reporting on him. I think he's perfectly capable of leading, just needs to get rid of some of the rubbish that's accumulated over the years.
"
Well said. I hope the Sun prints this. |
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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago
Hereford |
"See I adore Jeremy and his style of politics, he represents the people, he doesn't take the mick with expenses, he has shown so much grace under pressure and he continues to fight for what the population wants rather than kowtowing to businesses and money.
Ultimately that's resulted in a lot of bad press, but you only have to look at social media to see a completely different side of reporting on him. I think he's perfectly capable of leading, just needs to get rid of some of the rubbish that's accumulated over the years.
"
Of course.
The whole "Oh, but he'd never make a leader" thing is quite laughable.
Somebody said it once, and people repeat it licke sheep, believeing it fills the void left for want of an actual argument.
It's a nothing statement. |
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If he was no threat why have so many people, from the Tory Government, the right wing press and the labour right, gone to such great lengths to try and destroy him? They fear his threat to the status quo. UKIP threatened the status quo, but a move to the right is not something they are as worried about.
But a move to the left....to genuinely shift power away from the rich, powerful and comfortable...well that is scary. |
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Mind you, it's no longer £3 all of a sudden and in any case the disgusting shits in the plp have managed to pass a rule that only people who were members 6 months ago can vote.
Disgracefully it was a motion voted on after Corbyn had left and it wasn't on the agenda so he didn't know about it either v |
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By *ohnaron OP Man
over a year ago
london |
"Mind you, it's no longer £3 all of a sudden and in any case the disgusting shits in the plp have managed to pass a rule that only people who were members 6 months ago can vote.
Disgracefully it was a motion voted on after Corbyn had left and it wasn't on the agenda so he didn't know about it either v"
I am shocked and it takes a lit to shock me. |
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"See I adore Jeremy and his style of politics, he represents the people, he doesn't take the mick with expenses, he has shown so much grace under pressure and he continues to fight for what the population wants rather than kowtowing to businesses and money.
Ultimately that's resulted in a lot of bad press, but you only have to look at social media to see a completely different side of reporting on him. I think he's perfectly capable of leading, just needs to get rid of some of the rubbish that's accumulated over the years.
Of course.
The whole "Oh, but he'd never make a leader" thing is quite laughable.
Somebody said it once, and people repeat it licke sheep, believeing it fills the void left for want of an actual argument.
It's a nothing statement. "
It's a party of elected people who have the wherewithal not to need a PR spiv. But they do have to give their leader 100%, especially since they're rebuilding from a position of weakness.
Jeremy seems fully admirable.
The referendum showed how many people on all sides who seem to grasp at the superficial and repeat ad nauseum soundbite mantras that are without depth. And these are repeated almost word perfectly over and over again.
The referendum showed that people are fed up with the majority being shafted by a more fortunate few and disinterest in an older style of politics. That's an opportune point for a party to pull together and determine how they can best help those people and to end their disenfranchisement.
Our media have been against Corbyn from day 1 - even the BBC have shafted him. I'm not his number one fan but have the utmost respect for him. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"See I adore Jeremy and his style of politics, he represents the people, he doesn't take the mick with expenses, he has shown so much grace under pressure and he continues to fight for what the population wants rather than kowtowing to businesses and money.
Ultimately that's resulted in a lot of bad press, but you only have to look at social media to see a completely different side of reporting on him. I think he's perfectly capable of leading, just needs to get rid of some of the rubbish that's accumulated over the years.
Of course.
The whole "Oh, but he'd never make a leader" thing is quite laughable.
Somebody said it once, and people repeat it licke sheep, believeing it fills the void left for want of an actual argument.
It's a nothing statement.
It's a party of elected people who have the wherewithal not to need a PR spiv. But they do have to give their leader 100%, especially since they're rebuilding from a position of weakness.
Jeremy seems fully admirable.
The referendum showed how many people on all sides who seem to grasp at the superficial and repeat ad nauseum soundbite mantras that are without depth. And these are repeated almost word perfectly over and over again.
The referendum showed that people are fed up with the majority being shafted by a more fortunate few and disinterest in an older style of politics. That's an opportune point for a party to pull together and determine how they can best help those people and to end their disenfranchisement.
"
Kind of hard to do that when you fucked them off to side with the establishment/fortunate few though |
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By *ancadamMan
over a year ago
Stockport |
"If he was no threat why have so many people, from the Tory Government, the right wing press and the labour right, gone to such great lengths to try and destroy him? They fear his threat to the status quo. UKIP threatened the status quo, but a move to the right is not something they are as worried about.
But a move to the left....to genuinely shift power away from the rich, powerful and comfortable...well that is scary. "
top quote on this thread.the establishment are terrified of him. |
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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago
Hereford |
"See I adore Jeremy and his style of politics, he represents the people, he doesn't take the mick with expenses, he has shown so much grace under pressure and he continues to fight for what the population wants rather than kowtowing to businesses and money.
Ultimately that's resulted in a lot of bad press, but you only have to look at social media to see a completely different side of reporting on him. I think he's perfectly capable of leading, just needs to get rid of some of the rubbish that's accumulated over the years.
Of course.
The whole "Oh, but he'd never make a leader" thing is quite laughable.
Somebody said it once, and people repeat it licke sheep, believeing it fills the void left for want of an actual argument.
It's a nothing statement.
It's a party of elected people who have the wherewithal not to need a PR spiv. But they do have to give their leader 100%, especially since they're rebuilding from a position of weakness.
Jeremy seems fully admirable.
The referendum showed how many people on all sides who seem to grasp at the superficial and repeat ad nauseum soundbite mantras that are without depth. And these are repeated almost word perfectly over and over again.
The referendum showed that people are fed up with the majority being shafted by a more fortunate few and disinterest in an older style of politics. That's an opportune point for a party to pull together and determine how they can best help those people and to end their disenfranchisement.
Kind of hard to do that when you fucked them off to side with the establishment/fortunate few though"
I don't think its as simple as that. There are vested establishment interests on both sides. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If he was no threat why have so many people, from the Tory Government, the right wing press and the labour right, gone to such great lengths to try and destroy him? They fear his threat to the status quo. UKIP threatened the status quo, but a move to the right is not something they are as worried about.
But a move to the left....to genuinely shift power away from the rich, powerful and comfortable...well that is scary. top quote on this thread.the establishment are terrified of him."
Not really.
Hes fairly ineffectual.
They're not scared of him taking anything away from him. However he does annoy a lot of people/backers by effectively removing thier ability to gain power/excercise power because he is making the 2nd major party in the country un electable |
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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago
Hereford |
"If he was no threat why have so many people, from the Tory Government, the right wing press and the labour right, gone to such great lengths to try and destroy him? They fear his threat to the status quo. UKIP threatened the status quo, but a move to the right is not something they are as worried about.
But a move to the left....to genuinely shift power away from the rich, powerful and comfortable...well that is scary. top quote on this thread.the establishment are terrified of him.
Not really.
Hes fairly ineffectual.
They're not scared of him taking anything away from him. However he does annoy a lot of people/backers by effectively removing thier ability to gain power/excercise power because he is making the 2nd major party in the country un electable "
And yet its got more members than at any time in its history.... |
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It's quite astonishing the behaviour of the majority of the PLP.
When Tory politicians are out of touch with the general public it doesn't come as too much of a surprise. On the whole they are usually a lot more privileged and wealthier and removed from ordinary people.
But Labour politicians really should not be. You'd think with the general disillusionment with politicians that has been going on pre and post the expenses scandal, the spin culture, deception and misleading of the people highlighted over the Iraq war scandal and then all the brexit lies, that they would understand the mood of the people.
Instead they have looked at Farage and seem to have been unable to comprehend that a major part of his appeal has not been necessarily his views but that he was able to present himself as not one of the west minister bubble crowd and demonstrate that by meaning what he said. It won votes.
It seems as if they were too dumb to see that, no doubt dismissing it because he was not on the Left.
So then they were presented with a further demonstration of this mood with their own party. Jeremy Corbyn. Not too many people know or care about the details of what he believes in but they do know the following;-
He does have beliefs and principles. He means what he says. He has the integrity to stand by those principles and not abandon those principles for personal or political gain.
Other than that we know he is a pacifist, he believes in the NHS, he believes in looking after the poorest and most vulnerable in society, he believes in democracy and he believes in a different way of doing politics respecting opponents views but seriously tackling the issues rather than playing the man.
It has won him support and in the face of huge often unwarranted unfair attacks it has maintained that support.
The reaction of the majority of labour MP's?
To resent him. To work against him rather than throw themselves 100% into supporting him while finding his feet. To put the fight against him ahead of the fight against the Tories. To blame him for all failings regardless of whether it was justified and more importantly to not accept responsibility themselves.
Then what do they top it off with? Behind the scenes politicking and devious machinations putting their own personal agendas first, ignoring the wishes of the vast majority of the party, disloyalty, circumventing democracy and exhibiting no personal integrity.
All at the very worst time in generations they could have picked to do it. FFS!
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If he was no threat why have so many people, from the Tory Government, the right wing press and the labour right, gone to such great lengths to try and destroy him? They fear his threat to the status quo. UKIP threatened the status quo, but a move to the right is not something they are as worried about.
But a move to the left....to genuinely shift power away from the rich, powerful and comfortable...well that is scary. top quote on this thread.the establishment are terrified of him.
Not really.
Hes fairly ineffectual.
They're not scared of him taking anything away from him. However he does annoy a lot of people/backers by effectively removing thier ability to gain power/excercise power because he is making the 2nd major party in the country un electable
And yet its got more members than at any time in its history...."
From a group that universally fails to turn out for votes.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
He does have beliefs and principles. He means what he says. He has the integrity to stand by those principles and not abandon those principles for personal or political gain. !
"
Yet at the first test of his principles he folded and toed the party line.
And even then he did it with such apathy he didnt even win over the otherside.
He came across weak and ineffectual and at the same time lost his USP of being the rare principled politician |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Wasn't this the problem last time? Corbin got thousands of his Trotsky radicals to pay the £3 and force him into the leadership. In jersey side hundreds of the old "militant tendency" who were previously thrown out have been let back in through the back door of "registered supporter" without going through the normal procedures.
We are now looking at a worse division than we had under Kinnock and Hatton...... Total civil war.
Meanwhile the Tory boys are laughing up their sleeves! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Wasn't this the problem last time? Corbin got thousands of his Trotsky radicals to pay the £3 and force him into the leadership. In jersey side hundreds of the old "militant tendency" who were previously thrown out have been let back in through the back door of "registered supporter" without going through the normal procedures.
We are now looking at a worse division than we had under Kinnock and Hatton...... Total civil war.
Meanwhile the Tory boys are laughing up their sleeves!"
Hence why they changed the rules.
Its either member since before febuary (thus killing off the last round that supported corbyn) or new member and pay 25 quid during a 2 day registration period (date to be announed) to vote this time as a new member.
But not open to existing members.
Effectivlly what they've done is bar all those who signed up last time to vote for corbyn.
They've upped the fee to the point its not worth it for a bit of a laugh like it was for 3 quid.
But left it open for the higehr earning middle class who want him out to sign up and ditch him |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Mind you, it's no longer £3 all of a sudden and in any case the disgusting shits in the plp have managed to pass a rule that only people who were members 6 months ago can vote.
Disgracefully it was a motion voted on after Corbyn had left and it wasn't on the agenda so he didn't know about it either v
I am shocked and it takes a lit to shock me. "
Actually the details of this were reported on TV yesterday morning. BEFORE the National Executive Committee meeting.
But just as people say a gold or silver membership is not beyond "time wasters" on this site...£25 will not stop people signing up to vote for mischief reasons on either side.
The Tories must be fair widdling themselves laughing at this debacle!
Labour should have been able to take advantage of splits in the Tory party...instead the Tories are mending the cracks, pulling together and being a total contrast to the civil war in labour! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Wasn't this the problem last time? Corbin got thousands of his Trotsky radicals to pay the £3 and force him into the leadership. In jersey side hundreds of the old "militant tendency" who were previously thrown out have been let back in through the back door of "registered supporter" without going through the normal procedures.
We are now looking at a worse division than we had under Kinnock and Hatton...... Total civil war.
Meanwhile the Tory boys are laughing up their sleeves!
Hence why they changed the rules.
Its either member since before febuary (thus killing off the last round that supported corbyn) or new member and pay 25 quid during a 2 day registration period (date to be announed) to vote this time as a new member.
But not open to existing members.
Effectivlly what they've done is bar all those who signed up last time to vote for corbyn.
They've upped the fee to the point its not worth it for a bit of a laugh like it was for 3 quid.
But left it open for the higehr earning middle class who want him out to sign up and ditch him"
The "cut off point" is February. Corbin was elected in the previous October. The militants were already in and remain so. It will, however, stop others coming in and voting against him....unless they pay £25 and get in during a 2 day "window of opportunity "......what's the odds on the website crashing? |
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"See I adore Jeremy and his style of politics, he represents the people, he doesn't take the mick with expenses, he has shown so much grace under pressure and he continues to fight for what the population wants rather than kowtowing to businesses and money.
Ultimately that's resulted in a lot of bad press, but you only have to look at social media to see a completely different side of reporting on him. I think he's perfectly capable of leading, just needs to get rid of some of the rubbish that's accumulated over the years.
"
I thought that the trouble is that he is not what the population wants .
A significant number of the population appeciate that everything you have in life has to be earned or paid for and that we are dependent on business providing jobs which in turn generate taxes to fund public services .
Fingers crossed that Jeremy is re elected as leader . He has done a great job so far in ensuring that the Conservatives will renain in power for a very long time .
Tony Blair was a great leader and did an excellent job for the Labour party. Interesting his wife aas very successfull in her right .
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"
He does have beliefs and principles. He means what he says. He has the integrity to stand by those principles and not abandon those principles for personal or political gain. !
Yet at the first test of his principles he folded and toed the party line.
And even then he did it with such apathy he didnt even win over the otherside.
He came across weak and ineffectual and at the same time lost his USP of being the rare principled politician "
He did not abandon his principles. Sometimes two principles that can generally coexist compete against each other. Not all issues are simple, they can be complex and require a bit of thought. I'm sorry if this is too difficult for you to understand.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"£25 needed to become a registered member if you join after Feb this year "
Ahhhh so Labour have raised their price to the same as conservative membership, if you have the spare cash there is no harm in joining both
you do get some in depth info and access to their website same as SNP in Scotland |
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"It's quite astonishing the behaviour of the majority of the PLP.
When Tory politicians are out of touch with the general public it doesn't come as too much of a surprise. On the whole they are usually a lot more privileged and wealthier and removed from ordinary people.
But Labour politicians really should not be. You'd think with the general disillusionment with politicians that has been going on pre and post the expenses scandal, the spin culture, deception and misleading of the people highlighted over the Iraq war scandal and then all the brexit lies, that they would understand the mood of the people.
Instead they have looked at Farage and seem to have been unable to comprehend that a major part of his appeal has not been necessarily his views but that he was able to present himself as not one of the west minister bubble crowd and demonstrate that by meaning what he said. It won votes.
It seems as if they were too dumb to see that, no doubt dismissing it because he was not on the Left.
So then they were presented with a further demonstration of this mood with their own party. Jeremy Corbyn. Not too many people know or care about the details of what he believes in but they do know the following;-
He does have beliefs and principles. He means what he says. He has the integrity to stand by those principles and not abandon those principles for personal or political gain.
Other than that we know he is a pacifist, he believes in the NHS, he believes in looking after the poorest and most vulnerable in society, he believes in democracy and he believes in a different way of doing politics respecting opponents views but seriously tackling the issues rather than playing the man.
It has won him support and in the face of huge often unwarranted unfair attacks it has maintained that support.
The reaction of the majority of labour MP's?
To resent him. To work against him rather than throw themselves 100% into supporting him while finding his feet. To put the fight against him ahead of the fight against the Tories. To blame him for all failings regardless of whether it was justified and more importantly to not accept responsibility themselves.
Then what do they top it off with? Behind the scenes politicking and devious machinations putting their own personal agendas first, ignoring the wishes of the vast majority of the party, disloyalty, circumventing democracy and exhibiting no personal integrity.
All at the very worst time in generations they could have picked to do it. FFS!
"
maybe the PLP is not as out of touch as you think. they know Jezza a while lot better than you or i do, so it seems likely that as so many of them think he is useless he should just go for the sake of the party. |
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Maybe.
It does seem they have struggled to connect with the electorate, the members and the youth of the country in the way Corbyn has.
That might not appeal to the wider electorate of course but I think they should have given it more than about 10 months to decide. Some didn't give him 5 minutes. Plus I don't see anyone on the right of the party that has a better chance of being PM anyway. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
He does have beliefs and principles. He means what he says. He has the integrity to stand by those principles and not abandon those principles for personal or political gain. !
Yet at the first test of his principles he folded and toed the party line.
And even then he did it with such apathy he didnt even win over the otherside.
He came across weak and ineffectual and at the same time lost his USP of being the rare principled politician
He did not abandon his principles. Sometimes two principles that can generally coexist compete against each other. Not all issues are simple, they can be complex and require a bit of thought. I'm sorry if this is too difficult for you to understand.
"
Yes and no generally cannot coexist.
He folded, then carried out his "duty" half assedly.
Instead of making a name/proving he was a force capable of leadership we was weak and apathetic and his party has rebelled against him.
He could have stood by his principles and alienated a lot but maintained his core.
Ir he could have abbanonded them and fought hard alienating some of his core but gaining wider apeal.
He failed to do either and thus became irrelevant |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Maybe.
It does seem they have struggled to connect with the electorate, the members and the youth of the country in the way Corbyn has.
That might not appeal to the wider electorate of course but I think they should have given it more than about 10 months to decide. Some didn't give him 5 minutes. Plus I don't see anyone on the right of the party that has a better chance of being PM anyway. "
The youth don't vote though.
Connecting with them is as pointless as connecting with the countries cats |
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"
The youth don't vote though.
Connecting with them is as pointless as connecting with the countries cats "
Despite misleading initial reports in the press regarding (both the labour vote and) the youth turnout it actually held up quite well at around 64% of 18-25 year olds, 65% in the 25-39 age bracket and 66% in the 40-54 age bracket. So very comparable really. What tipped the balance in favour of Leave was 90% of those over 65 voting and predominantly voting Leave whereas the youth predominantly voted remain.
Now this is a change from recent general elections, though the Scottish referendum showed a good turnout also. I think 80% of 16-18 year olds registered to vote in it.
What that seems to be saying is that if the Youth can be engaged in the issues they will turn out.
Corbyn seems to have engaged the youth better than previous leaders of any Party, which appears to worry you as you'd rather he gave up on them.
Regardless of the fact that you are wrong about the youth turnout at least at the most recent votes - it is even possible that turnout of the younger voters at the 2015 GE was over 60% - I am surprised you dismiss engaging the young as pointless. Surely it is essential, not to mention smart. |
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"See I adore Jeremy and his style of politics, he represents the people, he doesn't take the mick with expenses, he has shown so much grace under pressure and he continues to fight for what the population wants rather than kowtowing to businesses and money.
Ultimately that's resulted in a lot of bad press, but you only have to look at social media to see a completely different side of reporting on him. I think he's perfectly capable of leading, just needs to get rid of some of the rubbish that's accumulated over the years.
Of course.
The whole "Oh, but he'd never make a leader" thing is quite laughable.
Somebody said it once, and people repeat it licke sheep, believeing it fills the void left for want of an actual argument.
It's a nothing statement. "
ine definition of leadership is that people are prepared to follow you. it is quite evident that the PLP will not follow
JC, so in that basisi he is no leader. you have to remember that MPs are voted for by the electorate in general and not a small group of member (£3 socialists). |
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"
Yes and no generally cannot coexist.
"
Your use of the word 'generally' is interesting. Basically you accept that sometimes it can, but that also sometimes you have to make a choice and sometimes you have to make a compromise. Sometimes you cannot compromise. Mr Corbyn made a choice when it came to Trident to accept democracy and the rules of the party. I'm sure he would have preferred not to have to make a choice, but making the choice was one he could live with.
Had the Labour Conference chosen to privatise the NHS he would have left the Party, not just stood down as leader.
He has been critical of the EU, but again he on balance decided that remaining and trying to change things from within was a better compromise than leaving the EU.
On his leadership challenge he is faced with listening to the wishes of 150 or so MP's or listening to the wishes of hundreds of thousands of members in accordance with the rules. If the membership agree with the PLP then he will accept that, but to not give them a say when it appears he has significant numbers who may disagree with the PLP and indeed may believe they are the problem, is the right thing to do.
"
He folded, then carried out his "duty" half assedly.
"
He has been in the job about 10 months and quite an unusual 10 months at that. People tend to not be as good at a job when first starting, but over time can improve.
"
Instead of making a name/proving he was a force capable of leadership we was weak and apathetic and his party has rebelled against him.
He could have stood by his principles and alienated a lot but maintained his core.
Ir he could have abbanonded them and fought hard alienating some of his core but gaining wider apeal.
He failed to do either and thus became irrelevant "
He chose to make decisions consistent with his principles and as a result has actually increased the grass roots support for his party and engaged the young people of this country. The Labour vote has held up generally pretty well, in fact it is showing signs of improving despite all of the brickbats thrown at Mr Corbyn by the media and members of the PLP actively plotting against him from the start.
It is quite amazing that Corbyn was blamed for the EU referendum result when actually the Labour vote held up pretty well for Remain. It is even more amazing that he was accused of not working hard enough for the Remain campaign when he was the one travelling all over the country making speeches while Hilary Benn actually admitted spending much of his time during the referendum plotting behind the scenes for a leadership coup, such was his work rate and priority. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
Yes and no generally cannot coexist.
Your use of the word 'generally' is interesting. Basically you accept that sometimes it can, but that also sometimes you have to make a choice and sometimes you have to make a compromise. Sometimes you cannot compromise. Mr Corbyn made a choice when it came to Trident to accept democracy and the rules of the party. I'm sure he would have preferred not to have to make a choice, but making the choice was one he could live with.
Had the Labour Conference chosen to privatise the NHS he would have left the Party, not just stood down as leader.
He has been critical of the EU, but again he on balance decided that remaining and trying to change things from within was a better compromise than leaving the EU.
On his leadership challenge he is faced with listening to the wishes of 150 or so MP's or listening to the wishes of hundreds of thousands of members in accordance with the rules. If the membership agree with the PLP then he will accept that, but to not give them a say when it appears he has significant numbers who may disagree with the PLP and indeed may believe they are the problem, is the right thing to do.
He folded, then carried out his "duty" half assedly.
He has been in the job about 10 months and quite an unusual 10 months at that. People tend to not be as good at a job when first starting, but over time can improve.
Instead of making a name/proving he was a force capable of leadership we was weak and apathetic and his party has rebelled against him.
He could have stood by his principles and alienated a lot but maintained his core.
Ir he could have abbanonded them and fought hard alienating some of his core but gaining wider apeal.
He failed to do either and thus became irrelevant
He chose to make decisions consistent with his principles and as a result has actually increased the grass roots support for his party and engaged the young people of this country. The Labour vote has held up generally pretty well, in fact it is showing signs of improving despite all of the brickbats thrown at Mr Corbyn by the media and members of the PLP actively plotting against him from the start.
It is quite amazing that Corbyn was blamed for the EU referendum result when actually the Labour vote held up pretty well for Remain. It is even more amazing that he was accused of not working hard enough for the Remain campaign when he was the one travelling all over the country making speeches while Hilary Benn actually admitted spending much of his time during the referendum plotting behind the scenes for a leadership coup, such was his work rate and priority."
the Labour vote held up pretty well for Remain??
 |
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ine definition of leadership is that people are prepared to follow you. it is quite evident that the PLP will not follow
JC, so in that basisi he is no leader. you have to remember that MPs are voted for by the electorate in general and not a small group of member (£3 socialists). "
The Labour vote has held up, not collapsed. It seems as if hundreds of thousands of people are prepared to follow him for now, so by your definition he is a leader.
As for the £3 socialist jibe, this is clearly a nonsense.
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"See I adore Jeremy and his style of politics, he represents the people, he doesn't take the mick with expenses, he has shown so much grace under pressure and he continues to fight for what the population wants rather than kowtowing to businesses and money.
Ultimately that's resulted in a lot of bad press, but you only have to look at social media to see a completely different side of reporting on him. I think he's perfectly capable of leading, just needs to get rid of some of the rubbish that's accumulated over the years.
"
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the Labour vote held up pretty well for Remain??
"
Indeed. There was a lot of initial nonsense put out in the media by people with vested interests but the Labour Party's internal polling suggested actually the Labour voters did turn out and generally voted remain. This was then more or less borne out by YouGov survey.
According to The Independent
'the survey also appears to confirm previous claims by Corbyn and his supporters that 65% of Labour supporters voted to remain. It finds that only 24% voted to leave while 9% did not vote.'
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
the Labour vote held up pretty well for Remain??
Indeed. There was a lot of initial nonsense put out in the media by people with vested interests but the Labour Party's internal polling suggested actually the Labour voters did turn out and generally voted remain. This was then more or less borne out by YouGov survey.
According to The Independent
'the survey also appears to confirm previous claims by Corbyn and his supporters that 65% of Labour supporters voted to remain. It finds that only 24% voted to leave while 9% did not vote.'
"
absolute rubbish. I'm sorry, you sound as far removed from reality as Corbyn  |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
Typical labour con,£25 to vote a real money making scam.
Mindyou anyone who pays £25 to vote for Corbyn proves the point his supporters are idiots.
If you join now you cannot even vote lol.Proves what a bunch of con merchants labour our. |
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"Typical labour con,£25 to vote a real money making scam.
Mindyou anyone who pays £25 to vote for Corbyn proves the point his supporters are idiots.
If you join now you cannot even vote lol.Proves what a bunch of con merchants labour our."
to save £25 can a 'for' JC agree with me not to vote and we've just saved ourselfs £50! sounds like a plan |
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"
the Labour vote held up pretty well for Remain??
Indeed. There was a lot of initial nonsense put out in the media by people with vested interests but the Labour Party's internal polling suggested actually the Labour voters did turn out and generally voted remain. This was then more or less borne out by YouGov survey.
According to The Independent
'the survey also appears to confirm previous claims by Corbyn and his supporters that 65% of Labour supporters voted to remain. It finds that only 24% voted to leave while 9% did not vote.'
absolute rubbish. I'm sorry, you sound as far removed from reality as Corbyn "
It's not rubbish.
'The YouGov survey interviewed 2013 British adults on 26 and 27 June. It asked: “Thinking particularly about the Labour party and the Labour campaign in the referendum, would you say that this made you more or less likely to vote Labour or has it made no difference?”
It found that 6% of those who voted Labour in 2015 said it was much more likely they would vote Labour; 5% said a little more likely to vote Labour, making a total of 11%.
Fifteen per cent of Labour’s voters said they were a little less likely to vote Labour since the referendum campaign; 12% said it made them a lot less likely to vote Labour, making a total of 27%.
But the survey also appears to confirm previous claims by Corbyn and his supporters that 65% of Labour supporters voted to remain. It finds that only 24% voted to leave while 9% did not vote.'
Immediately after the EU referendum it appears a lot of Labour supporters were disillusioned and Corbyn personally was blamed, from memory I think 52% thought he had performed poorly while 48% thought he had performed well, compared to Gordon Brown who scored something like an 80% approval rating.
It was probably this that triggered the revolt by the PLP and the attempt to remove him.
Since then it seems there has been a bit of a recovery for Corbyn personally, but not so for the PLP. Perhaps as more facts have come out about the Labour vote perhaps they aren't as annoyed or aren't blaming Corbyn.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
the Labour vote held up pretty well for Remain??
Indeed. There was a lot of initial nonsense put out in the media by people with vested interests but the Labour Party's internal polling suggested actually the Labour voters did turn out and generally voted remain. This was then more or less borne out by YouGov survey.
According to The Independent
'the survey also appears to confirm previous claims by Corbyn and his supporters that 65% of Labour supporters voted to remain. It finds that only 24% voted to leave while 9% did not vote.'
absolute rubbish. I'm sorry, you sound as far removed from reality as Corbyn
It's not rubbish.
'The YouGov survey interviewed 2013 British adults on 26 and 27 June. It asked: “Thinking particularly about the Labour party and the Labour campaign in the referendum, would you say that this made you more or less likely to vote Labour or has it made no difference?”
It found that 6% of those who voted Labour in 2015 said it was much more likely they would vote Labour; 5% said a little more likely to vote Labour, making a total of 11%.
Fifteen per cent of Labour’s voters said they were a little less likely to vote Labour since the referendum campaign; 12% said it made them a lot less likely to vote Labour, making a total of 27%.
But the survey also appears to confirm previous claims by Corbyn and his supporters that 65% of Labour supporters voted to remain. It finds that only 24% voted to leave while 9% did not vote.'
Immediately after the EU referendum it appears a lot of Labour supporters were disillusioned and Corbyn personally was blamed, from memory I think 52% thought he had performed poorly while 48% thought he had performed well, compared to Gordon Brown who scored something like an 80% approval rating.
It was probably this that triggered the revolt by the PLP and the attempt to remove him.
Since then it seems there has been a bit of a recovery for Corbyn personally, but not so for the PLP. Perhaps as more facts have come out about the Labour vote perhaps they aren't as annoyed or aren't blaming Corbyn.
"
You can spout all the opinions and figures you like. Just answer this one -
how many working class/poor areas voted Remain? Or are the working class/poorest no longer Labour voters? |
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"Typical labour con,£25 to vote a real money making scam.
Mindyou anyone who pays £25 to vote for Corbyn proves the point his supporters are idiots.
If you join now you cannot even vote lol.Proves what a bunch of con merchants labour our.
to save £25 can a 'for' JC agree with me not to vote and we've just saved ourselfs £50! sounds like a plan "
no takers?  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Typical labour con,£25 to vote a real money making scam.
Mindyou anyone who pays £25 to vote for Corbyn proves the point his supporters are idiots.
If you join now you cannot even vote lol.Proves what a bunch of con merchants labour our."
I take it you are not part of a Union or aware of what is open to you with Union Membership? |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"Typical labour con,£25 to vote a real money making scam.
Mindyou anyone who pays £25 to vote for Corbyn proves the point his supporters are idiots.
If you join now you cannot even vote lol.Proves what a bunch of con merchants labour our.
I take it you are not part of a Union or aware of what is open to you with Union Membership?"
I used to be in a union and the bastards did not help me when I needed it,had allways payed my subs,unions also robbing bastards |
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"
You can spout all the opinions and figures you like. Just answer this one -
how many working class/poor areas voted Remain? Or are the working class/poorest no longer Labour voters?"
Most of the areas that would be classed as traditional Labour strongholds voted to Leave.
What does that prove? It is a strange response.
When you take that statistic with the one about the overall Labour turnout and the general vote by Labour supporters the only conclusion you can make is that it was overwhelmingly David Cameron and the rest of the Conservative Government that failed to get a persuasive message across, surely? How many Conservatives or neutrals did Mr Cameron persuade to vote Remain? Why was there such a protest vote for change in these poorer areas? Was it because of 6 years of failed policies and broken promises by the Government? How much was this blame transferred onto the EU? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Typical labour con,£25 to vote a real money making scam.
Mindyou anyone who pays £25 to vote for Corbyn proves the point his supporters are idiots.
If you join now you cannot even vote lol.Proves what a bunch of con merchants labour our.
I take it you are not part of a Union or aware of what is open to you with Union Membership?I used to be in a union and the bastards did not help me when I needed it,had allways payed my subs,unions also robbing bastards"
oh okay;
perhaps the boys out on the Shell platforms right now have a different view
especially the ones voting to strike, the ones with bottle who are fighting for their T&C's |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
You can spout all the opinions and figures you like. Just answer this one -
how many working class/poor areas voted Remain? Or are the working class/poorest no longer Labour voters?
Most of the areas that would be classed as traditional Labour strongholds voted to Leave.
What does that prove? It is a strange response.
When you take that statistic with the one about the overall Labour turnout and the general vote by Labour supporters the only conclusion you can make is that it was overwhelmingly David Cameron and the rest of the Conservative Government that failed to get a persuasive message across, surely? How many Conservatives or neutrals did Mr Cameron persuade to vote Remain? Why was there such a protest vote for change in these poorer areas? Was it because of 6 years of failed policies and broken promises by the Government? How much was this blame transferred onto the EU? "
whatever, my point was that the majority of Labour voters voted to leave and I don't know how you can refute that |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Labour has 95 seats with less than 5000 majority. They will ALL be gone at the next election for sure. That is if the Labour Party as it has always been known still exists. Neither side of the Labour party represents its traditional voters any longer, particularly the left |
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whatever, my point was that the majority of Labour voters voted to leave and I don't know how you can refute that"
That was the initial assumption, but the YouGov survey showed that, as I said before, '65% of Labour supporters voted to remain...only 24% voted to leave while 9% did not vote.'
You have just reminded me, perhaps I was being a little harsh on Mr Cameron. Probably the thing that took us out of the EU is a fair chunk of the public who preferred to rely on their own pre-conceived ideas and prejudices and ignore evidence, facts and experts. |
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"Labour has 95 seats with less than 5000 majority. They will ALL be gone at the next election for sure. That is if the Labour Party as it has always been known still exists. Neither side of the Labour party represents its traditional voters any longer, particularly the left"
Possibly.
It's not backed up by the statistics at the moment though. What you are assuming is that UKIP will pick up huge swathes of votes in these Northern and Midlands areas. It is a reasonable assumption since they have just achieved their ambition, so they should be riding high on a crest of a wave.
However in the handful of local council ward elections since the Referendum the Labour vote has generally increased and UKIP's has declined.
'The by- election in Welling in the London borough of Bexley was in a borough that voted to leave and in an unpromising ward for Labour that included had one UKIP and two Tory councillors.
Yet the result last Thursday in St Michael’s ward saw the Labour share of the vote increase by 11.5 per cent to come a close second to defeating the Tory who recorded a 2.7 per cent increase in his share. UKIP’s share of the vote declined by 14.7 per cent. Over 30 per cent of the electorate voted – one week after Bexley recorded a decisive vote to leave.
The second by-election in Newington in Thanet – a UKIP stronghold – saw UKIP just retain the seat by 14 votes. But the UKIP share was down four per cent and the Labour share was up 1.9 per cent. The Tory share was down 2.5 per cent.'
Where the Labour vote has declined it hasn't gone to UKIP but to the Lib Dems and the Greens mainly with a possible small swing to the Tories in one case in Wales which had a strong local factor.
Basically it does seem as though the former UKIP support is reverting back to traditional lines.
Very early days though and not enough proper tests, but it really doesn't seem like UKIP and the Tories are going to pick up traditional Labour votes.
A new Lib-Dem/centre right Labour Party might, if there is a split, but you know, there really does seem to be a movement at grass roots level getting behind a left of centre Labour Party.
250,000 NEW members is a lot when you consider the Tories only number, in total, around 125,000 at best (the 150,000 often quoted is too high according to some knowledgeable Tory Party members). |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
the Labour vote held up pretty well for Remain??
Indeed. There was a lot of initial nonsense put out in the media by people with vested interests but the Labour Party's internal polling suggested actually the Labour voters did turn out and generally voted remain. This was then more or less borne out by YouGov survey.
According to The Independent
'the survey also appears to confirm previous claims by Corbyn and his supporters that 65% of Labour supporters voted to remain. It finds that only 24% voted to leave while 9% did not vote.'
absolute rubbish. I'm sorry, you sound as far removed from reality as Corbyn
It's not rubbish.
'The YouGov survey interviewed 2013 British adults on 26 and 27 June. It asked: “Thinking particularly about the Labour party and the Labour campaign in the referendum, would you say that this made you more or less likely to vote Labour or has it made no difference?”
It found that 6% of those who voted Labour in 2015 said it was much more likely they would vote Labour; 5% said a little more likely to vote Labour, making a total of 11%.
Fifteen per cent of Labour’s voters said they were a little less likely to vote Labour since the referendum campaign; 12% said it made them a lot less likely to vote Labour, making a total of 27%.
"
So a net loss of 16% of thier voters? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Typical labour con,£25 to vote a real money making scam.
Mindyou anyone who pays £25 to vote for Corbyn proves the point his supporters are idiots.
If you join now you cannot even vote lol.Proves what a bunch of con merchants labour our.
I take it you are not part of a Union or aware of what is open to you with Union Membership?"
That was scrapped.
You're no longer a labour member with your union membership |
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So a net loss of 16% of thier voters?"
Yes. I'm not hiding that was the feeling amongst the labour voters two days after the referendum.
How that compares to the Tories and Lib-dem voters I don't know. How it compares to any party a day or two after a result they were on the wrong side of I also don't know, but both are probably relevant for a full assessment.
However I suspect they are not that relevant to a future GE.
The important part of the survey was not a gut feeling of how people might respond to a campaign in the future having just come through a long, fairly negative campaign that resulted in a negative outcome, but the actual results of how people did vote. Hence pointing out how the facts differed from the assumptions of Corbyn opponents.
Probably even more important a misconception to straighten out is this idea that the influx of new members are '£3 socialists' as if it is some sort of takeover not by ordinary members of the public but an infiltration by militant extreme left wing Trotskyite communist groups.
The influx of new labour members in the last year is 250,000. That is a staggering number. The Tory party has at best 125,000 in total.
I doubt the SWP, AWL, Socialist Party, TUSC, SLP and any other fringe group I have forgotten, when all combined together, will exceed even 5000 in number.
It is inconceivable that this surge is not a genuine surge from ordinary people when it is in such numbers.
Some are people returning who left in protest over Iraq, but most are new, young, enthusiastic and energetic.
I hope the Right continue to underestimate this in the same way the PLP appear to have misjudged it.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
I doubt the SWP, AWL, Socialist Party, TUSC, SLP and any other fringe group I have forgotten, when all combined together, will exceed even 5000 in number.
It is inconceivable that this surge is not a genuine surge from ordinary people when it is in such numbers.
"
Interesting point....
If the lib dems have their wits about them, they'll take the centre ground and represent 'social democrats'.... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Also:
The following link may help OP:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-party-leadership-contest-vote-jeremy-corbyn-new-members-momentum-vote-avoid-paying-25-fee-a7133851.html |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"You can no longer do this. You have to pay £25 to register to vote and you have to be a member for 6 months prior to the vote. "
That's quite a racket... Wish I'd thought of it...lol. |
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