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Chilcot report on Iraq war to be published on 6 July
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Some reckon one of the reasons Corbyn is holding on is so that he brand Tony Blair a “war criminal” after the release of the Chilcot Inquiry.
Obviously Blair has already read the report and he as well as his barristers are well prepared.
Rumour has it that he will not be prosecuted in any way but British soldiers could be;
I lost my brother in combat in 2003 and I will be interested in the outcome of the report.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Some reckon one of the reasons Corbyn is holding on is so that he brand Tony Blair a “war criminal” after the release of the Chilcot Inquiry.
Obviously Blair has already read the report and he as well as his barristers are well prepared.
Rumour has it that he will not be prosecuted in any way but British soldiers could be;
I lost my brother in combat in 2003 and I will be interested in the outcome of the report.
"
Sorry to hear about your brother. Obviously the whole thing is an emotive subject.
However, irrespective of its legal status the initial combat itself was a successful military campaign. Iraq had the worlds 4th largest army and we're defeated in a matter of weeks.
It's my opinion that everyone was subsequently betrayed by the incompetent reconstruction efforts which put political whims ahead of the military advice from the ground. In particular I'm talking about the policy of debaathification.
I see no inherent reason why Iraq couldn't have become a secure and prosperous country if the post-war events had been managed properly. The fact that it's somehow gotten worse and nobody has been held to account makes me particularly angry. That's why in my opinion, the legality of it is basically a distraction to where the real fault lies. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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It was a difficult time and it is now a past matter, we cannot bring him back and he went to war with his eyes open, we just thought he would come home at the end of it, sadly not.
I regret putting that in this post as the thread is really about Corbyn and also obviously about the Blair outcome.
I guess Blair thought he was doing right at the time and only later does the true events unfold.
Weapon's of mass destruction, looking back, its difficult to say if I believed there could be hoards or not,
It is easy to point the finger when all is done and dusted, and for me personally, I don't want to throw blame and I would like to see British soldiers protected in this. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It was a difficult time and it is now a past matter, we cannot bring him back and he went to war with his eyes open, we just thought he would come home at the end of it, sadly not.
I regret putting that in this post as the thread is really about Corbyn and also obviously about the Blair outcome.
I guess Blair thought he was doing right at the time and only later does the true events unfold.
Weapon's of mass destruction, looking back, its difficult to say if I believed there could be hoards or not,
It is easy to point the finger when all is done and dusted, and for me personally, I don't want to throw blame and I would like to see British soldiers protected in this."
People will have their own theories on Blair. Objectively, Blair made a decision in a highly uncertaint environment and he probably made the wrong one. However you don't judge those kind of decisions in retrospect.
I don't see any excuse for the debaathification policy though, it was thoroughly idiotic and pretty much created ISIS. Why is nobody being held to account for that!?
As for Corbyn, I don't see any relevance really. It isn't going to save him from anything |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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What makes everyone think TB won't come out of this smelling of roses.
tb instigated it
brown funded it
Hoon planned it.
thinks they will most likely get a knighthood ! |
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"It was a difficult time and it is now a past matter, we cannot bring him back and he went to war with his eyes open, we just thought he would come home at the end of it, sadly not.
I regret putting that in this post as the thread is really about Corbyn and also obviously about the Blair outcome.
I guess Blair thought he was doing right at the time and only later does the true events unfold.
Weapon's of mass destruction, looking back, its difficult to say if I believed there could be hoards or not,
It is easy to point the finger when all is done and dusted, and for me personally, I don't want to throw blame and I would like to see British soldiers protected in this."
You have my sympathy, I lost friends and comrades in NI and The Falklands and still it gets to me round the anniversary of their deaths. It must be so much harder when it is a family member.
The fact is that those who govern send armies to war, officers send soldiers to fight and die and soldiers have to obey orders. However since 1947 there has been an overriding rule that combatants are responsible for their actions and 'obeying orders' is no defence to war crimes. When I served this rule was drilled into everyone, in NI we were even issued with the 'yellow card' that told us our duties and responsibilities. Our troops know the law and must be held to account when they are caught breaking it, if they are not then we lose all claims to legitimacy and give a green light to the worst excesses of war. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"It was a difficult time and it is now a past matter, we cannot bring him back and he went to war with his eyes open, we just thought he would come home at the end of it, sadly not.
I regret putting that in this post as the thread is really about Corbyn and also obviously about the Blair outcome.
I guess Blair thought he was doing right at the time and only later does the true events unfold.
Weapon's of mass destruction, looking back, its difficult to say if I believed there could be hoards or not,
It is easy to point the finger when all is done and dusted, and for me personally, I don't want to throw blame and I would like to see British soldiers protected in this.
You have my sympathy, I lost friends and comrades in NI and The Falklands and still it gets to me round the anniversary of their deaths. It must be so much harder when it is a family member.
The fact is that those who govern send armies to war, officers send soldiers to fight and die and soldiers have to obey orders. However since 1947 there has been an overriding rule that combatants are responsible for their actions and 'obeying orders' is no defence to war crimes. When I served this rule was drilled into everyone, in NI we were even issued with the 'yellow card' that told us our duties and responsibilities. Our troops know the law and must be held to account when they are caught breaking it, if they are not then we lose all claims to legitimacy and give a green light to the worst excesses of war. "
It is worth while typing Ben Griffin into google and taking a read of a few items which come up, it may open the eyes to some who take time to read |
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"It is worth while typing Ben Griffin into google and taking a read of a few items which come up, it may open the eyes to some who take time to read"
I read the article, what it said was not news to me. The yanks are trigger happy, gungho, and for the most part out of control.
Unfortunately (unless things have changed radically from my day) most of our infantry are very similar when not kept on a very short leach. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It is worth while typing Ben Griffin into google and taking a read of a few items which come up, it may open the eyes to some who take time to read
I read the article, what it said was not news to me. The yanks are trigger happy, gungho, and for the most part out of control.
Unfortunately (unless things have changed radically from my day) most of our infantry are very similar when not kept on a very short leach."
.
Cry havoc for England harry and St George and let slip the dogs of war!.
Soldiers are for the best part, pawns, always have been always will.
If anybody thought you could send tens of thousands of men weapons and machinery into a battle ground without their being incident, well your a fucking moron and you need to stop reading the guardian!.
The question was, and you've quite rightly answered everybody in your first post, Tony Blair has committed no war crimes, neither did George bush.
It's a morality question, and morality is subjective, I didn't agree with the Iraq invasion, I marched through London with the other million people, I sent my MP a letter, I wrote to the house commission...I didn't get what I was looking for!
.
.
Now the second question was raised by mixedb!.
Where did it all go wrong, not the invasion, not even the war but the exit strategy which I've long argued with him.... It's not a fucking coincidence it ended in the shit, it was intentional, can I prove it in a court of law! No |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It is worth while typing Ben Griffin into google and taking a read of a few items which come up, it may open the eyes to some who take time to read
I read the article, what it said was not news to me. The yanks are trigger happy, gungho, and for the most part out of control.
Unfortunately (unless things have changed radically from my day) most of our infantry are very similar when not kept on a very short leach..
Cry havoc for England harry and St George and let slip the dogs of war!.
Soldiers are for the best part, pawns, always have been always will.
If anybody thought you could send tens of thousands of men weapons and machinery into a battle ground without their being incident, well your a fucking moron and you need to stop reading the guardian!.
The question was, and you've quite rightly answered everybody in your first post, Tony Blair has committed no war crimes, neither did George bush.
It's a morality question, and morality is subjective, I didn't agree with the Iraq invasion, I marched through London with the other million people, I sent my MP a letter, I wrote to the house commission...I didn't get what I was looking for!
.
.
Now the second question was raised by mixedb!.
Where did it all go wrong, not the invasion, not even the war but the exit strategy which I've long argued with him.... It's not a fucking coincidence it ended in the shit, it was intentional, can I prove it in a court of law! No"
Oh and you were doing so well until the end. The guardian comment was brilliant btw.
So our governments benefit from ISIS do they? Do you accept a basic assumption that sometimes leaders miscalculate the consequences of their decisions? Especially stupid ones |
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"So our governments benefit from ISIS do they? Do you accept a basic assumption that sometimes leaders miscalculate the consequences of their decisions? Especially stupid ones"
Our governments, maybe not. But the armaments, security industries definitely did. As did the parts of the establishment who are always looking to increase their control over the freedom and restrict the information available to the general population. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It is worth while typing Ben Griffin into google and taking a read of a few items which come up, it may open the eyes to some who take time to read
I read the article, what it said was not news to me. The yanks are trigger happy, gungho, and for the most part out of control.
Unfortunately (unless things have changed radically from my day) most of our infantry are very similar when not kept on a very short leach..
Cry havoc for England harry and St George and let slip the dogs of war!.
Soldiers are for the best part, pawns, always have been always will.
If anybody thought you could send tens of thousands of men weapons and machinery into a battle ground without their being incident, well your a fucking moron and you need to stop reading the guardian!.
The question was, and you've quite rightly answered everybody in your first post, Tony Blair has committed no war crimes, neither did George bush.
It's a morality question, and morality is subjective, I didn't agree with the Iraq invasion, I marched through London with the other million people, I sent my MP a letter, I wrote to the house commission...I didn't get what I was looking for!
.
.
Now the second question was raised by mixedb!.
Where did it all go wrong, not the invasion, not even the war but the exit strategy which I've long argued with him.... It's not a fucking coincidence it ended in the shit, it was intentional, can I prove it in a court of law! No
Oh and you were doing so well until the end. The guardian comment was brilliant btw.
So our governments benefit from ISIS do they? Do you accept a basic assumption that sometimes leaders miscalculate the consequences of their decisions? Especially stupid ones"
.
Power vacuums are rarely left by accident?.
So it's subjective on wether you think they fucked up or deliberately fucked the place up.
.
Libya went from about 20 something on the wealth list to second from bottom, I'd doubt you'd find many Libyans who think they are better off now than under Gaddafi |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It is worth while typing Ben Griffin into google and taking a read of a few items which come up, it may open the eyes to some who take time to read
I read the article, what it said was not news to me. The yanks are trigger happy, gungho, and for the most part out of control.
Unfortunately (unless things have changed radically from my day) most of our infantry are very similar when not kept on a very short leach..
Cry havoc for England harry and St George and let slip the dogs of war!.
Soldiers are for the best part, pawns, always have been always will.
If anybody thought you could send tens of thousands of men weapons and machinery into a battle ground without their being incident, well your a fucking moron and you need to stop reading the guardian!.
The question was, and you've quite rightly answered everybody in your first post, Tony Blair has committed no war crimes, neither did George bush.
It's a morality question, and morality is subjective, I didn't agree with the Iraq invasion, I marched through London with the other million people, I sent my MP a letter, I wrote to the house commission...I didn't get what I was looking for!
.
.
Now the second question was raised by mixedb!.
Where did it all go wrong, not the invasion, not even the war but the exit strategy which I've long argued with him.... It's not a fucking coincidence it ended in the shit, it was intentional, can I prove it in a court of law! No
Oh and you were doing so well until the end. The guardian comment was brilliant btw.
So our governments benefit from ISIS do they? Do you accept a basic assumption that sometimes leaders miscalculate the consequences of their decisions? Especially stupid ones.
Power vacuums are rarely left by accident?.
So it's subjective on wether you think they fucked up or deliberately fucked the place up.
.
Libya went from about 20 something on the wealth list to second from bottom, I'd doubt you'd find many Libyans who think they are better off now than under Gaddafi "
Cui bono? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Tomorrow 
It sounds like it's going to be a tough read...
Are you going to read it?"
No I'm not reading 2.6m words of legal speak.
I don't honestly care if the war was "illegal" or not because I don't even accept the premise that there's such thing as international law other than what states voluntarily sign up to, manipulate and change as they please.
I do want to see some heads roll for the clusterfuck of a reconstruction effort after the invasion and the dumb ass policy of debaathification. |
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"Tomorrow
It sounds like it's going to be a tough read...
Are you going to read it?
No I'm not reading 2.6m words of legal speak.
I don't honestly care if the war was "illegal" or not because I don't even accept the premise that there's such thing as international law other than what states voluntarily sign up to, manipulate and change as they please.
I do want to see some heads roll for the clusterfuck of a reconstruction effort after the invasion and the dumb ass policy of debaathification. "
The only issue I have with the war was there was no plan for after ..hence the problems still there .. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Tomorrow
It sounds like it's going to be a tough read...
Are you going to read it?
No I'm not reading 2.6m words of legal speak.
I don't honestly care if the war was "illegal" or not because I don't even accept the premise that there's such thing as international law other than what states voluntarily sign up to, manipulate and change as they please.
I do want to see some heads roll for the clusterfuck of a reconstruction effort after the invasion and the dumb ass policy of debaathification.
The only issue I have with the war was there was no plan for after ..hence the problems still there .."
There was a plan, it just got sabotaged by a small number of idealistic / corrupt but elite politicans. In doing so they cost the lives of many civilians and device men and women. Which is criminal. |
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"No I'm not reading 2.6m words of legal speak.
I don't honestly care if the war was "illegal" or not because I don't even accept the premise that there's such thing as international law other than what states voluntarily sign up to, manipulate and change as they please.
I do want to see some heads roll for the clusterfuck of a reconstruction effort after the invasion and the dumb ass policy of debaathification. "
Again we agree!
I must admit that I find the whole idea of sanitising war rather repugnant. War needs to be bloody, brutal and terrifying. At least in that I have to say I agree with how IS (or whatever name they are being called this week) have prosecuted their war. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"No I'm not reading 2.6m words of legal speak.
I don't honestly care if the war was "illegal" or not because I don't even accept the premise that there's such thing as international law other than what states voluntarily sign up to, manipulate and change as they please.
I do want to see some heads roll for the clusterfuck of a reconstruction effort after the invasion and the dumb ass policy of debaathification.
Again we agree!
I must admit that I find the whole idea of sanitising war rather repugnant. War needs to be bloody, brutal and terrifying. At least in that I have to say I agree with how IS (or whatever name they are being called this week) have prosecuted their war."
They wouldn't even exist if some bright spark didn't disband the world's 4th largest army in the region of the world with the highest unemployment. |
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"They wouldn't even exist if some bright spark didn't disband the world's 4th largest army in the region of the world with the highest unemployment. "
I again agree with you, in fact I would go a lot further. But I have some very non-PC views when it comes to Arabs (of all faiths) and the Middle East. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"They wouldn't even exist if some bright spark didn't disband the world's 4th largest army in the region of the world with the highest unemployment.
I again agree with you, in fact I would go a lot further. But I have some very non-PC views when it comes to Arabs (of all faiths) and the Middle East."
Well my views aren't about Arabs, I'm talking about dumb ass Republican politicians who thought it was more important to give contracts to Halliburton than create jobs in the region and were more interested in forcing democratic voting on a population that ensuring they could fill up their cars!
Even the UN understands this much. Their first order of business in a war zone, pay people $1 or $2 dollars to clear minefields with big ass sticks. Why? Because it gets the economy moving again.
The truth is that there are hardly any real "terrorists" in ISIS, it's more like 15% genuine nut jobs and 85% mercenaries desperate for a pay day. |
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"They wouldn't even exist if some bright spark didn't disband the world's 4th largest army in the region of the world with the highest unemployment.
I again agree with you, in fact I would go a lot further. But I have some very non-PC views when it comes to Arabs (of all faiths) and the Middle East.
Well my views aren't about Arabs, I'm talking about dumb ass Republican politicians who thought it was more important to give contracts to Halliburton than create jobs in the region and were more interested in forcing democratic voting on a population that ensuring they could fill up their cars!
Even the UN understands this much. Their first order of business in a war zone, pay people $1 or $2 dollars to clear minefields with big ass sticks. Why? Because it gets the economy moving again.
The truth is that there are hardly any real "terrorists" in ISIS, it's more like 15% genuine nut jobs and 85% mercenaries desperate for a pay day. "
Again I agree with what you say about yank policy. However I do not agree with you about IS.
It is my contention that there is something in the Arab psyche that is disturbing. They admire those who use violence to gain and keep power. They believe in the ownership of women and the right to kill women if they displease. They believe that if you have power you must use it.
When we removed the secular psychopaths who kept the religious psychopaths in check it left the religious psychopaths in charge. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"They wouldn't even exist if some bright spark didn't disband the world's 4th largest army in the region of the world with the highest unemployment.
I again agree with you, in fact I would go a lot further. But I have some very non-PC views when it comes to Arabs (of all faiths) and the Middle East.
Well my views aren't about Arabs, I'm talking about dumb ass Republican politicians who thought it was more important to give contracts to Halliburton than create jobs in the region and were more interested in forcing democratic voting on a population that ensuring they could fill up their cars!
Even the UN understands this much. Their first order of business in a war zone, pay people $1 or $2 dollars to clear minefields with big ass sticks. Why? Because it gets the economy moving again.
The truth is that there are hardly any real "terrorists" in ISIS, it's more like 15% genuine nut jobs and 85% mercenaries desperate for a pay day.
Again I agree with what you say about yank policy. However I do not agree with you about IS.
It is my contention that there is something in the Arab psyche that is disturbing. They admire those who use violence to gain and keep power. They believe in the ownership of women and the right to kill women if they displease. They believe that if you have power you must use it.
When we removed the secular psychopaths who kept the religious psychopaths in check it left the religious psychopaths in charge. "
So how do you account for the sheer volume of mercenaries that ISIS relies on? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"They wouldn't even exist if some bright spark didn't disband the world's 4th largest army in the region of the world with the highest unemployment.
I again agree with you, in fact I would go a lot further. But I have some very non-PC views when it comes to Arabs (of all faiths) and the Middle East.
Well my views aren't about Arabs, I'm talking about dumb ass Republican politicians who thought it was more important to give contracts to Halliburton than create jobs in the region and were more interested in forcing democratic voting on a population that ensuring they could fill up their cars!
Even the UN understands this much. Their first order of business in a war zone, pay people $1 or $2 dollars to clear minefields with big ass sticks. Why? Because it gets the economy moving again.
The truth is that there are hardly any real "terrorists" in ISIS, it's more like 15% genuine nut jobs and 85% mercenaries desperate for a pay day.
Again I agree with what you say about yank policy. However I do not agree with you about IS.
It is my contention that there is something in the Arab psyche that is disturbing. They admire those who use violence to gain and keep power. They believe in the ownership of women and the right to kill women if they displease. They believe that if you have power you must use it.
When we removed the secular psychopaths who kept the religious psychopaths in check it left the religious psychopaths in charge. "
.
Actually if you look at the numbers game, Islam has troubles, sure they have alot of kids and that's good for any religion, because they all indocrinate them!.
Islam is no different there, however more people leave Islam than join, so having alot of kids is there only hope long term....
Having a job and a better standard of living is a massive massive child birth rate reducer, most western nations dropped into minus figures ie below 2 children after the war, Islam knows this, that's why they push what they push ie women as second class citizens, death for apostasy, children run through the ringers by the age of four.... It's life and death for Islam and it knows it! |
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"
Actually if you look at the numbers game, Islam has troubles, sure they have alot of kids and that's good for any religion, because they all indocrinate them!.
Islam is no different there, however more people leave Islam than join, so having alot of kids is there only hope long term....
Having a job and a better standard of living is a massive massive child birth rate reducer, most western nations dropped into minus figures ie below 2 children after the war, Islam knows this, that's why they push what they push ie women as second class citizens, death for apostasy, children run through the ringers by the age of four.... It's life and death for Islam and it knows it!"
You misunderstood my point. It is not a problem with Islam, it is a problem with Arabs. I see no difference between how Jewish Arabs, Christian Arabs, Muslim Arabs and secular Arabs. Arabs have a history going back 6000 years of exporting their violence to any place they can reach. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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".
So how do you account for the sheer volume of mercenaries that ISIS relies on? .
Poverty, religious indoctrination and racism!"
If they were indoctrinated they wouldn't be mercenaries! |
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"So how do you account for the sheer volume of mercenaries that ISIS relies on? "
I would suggest that if you offer a chance to exercise violent tendencies with little fear of reprisal then you will always find many disturbed individuals who will sign up.
IS offer that and the added bonus of captured women as sexual slaves. To many that would be an irresistible combination to many.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"So how do you account for the sheer volume of mercenaries that ISIS relies on?
I would suggest that if you offer a chance to exercise violent tendencies with little fear of reprisal then you will always find many disturbed individuals who will sign up.
IS offer that and the added bonus of captured women as sexual slaves. To many that would be an irresistible combination to many. "
Have you ever read Professor Collier (of Oxford Uni's) study called "Greed or Grievance"?
In my opinion it's the best scientific study on the matter. You should take a look... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
Actually if you look at the numbers game, Islam has troubles, sure they have alot of kids and that's good for any religion, because they all indocrinate them!.
Islam is no different there, however more people leave Islam than join, so having alot of kids is there only hope long term....
Having a job and a better standard of living is a massive massive child birth rate reducer, most western nations dropped into minus figures ie below 2 children after the war, Islam knows this, that's why they push what they push ie women as second class citizens, death for apostasy, children run through the ringers by the age of four.... It's life and death for Islam and it knows it!
You misunderstood my point. It is not a problem with Islam, it is a problem with Arabs. I see no difference between how Jewish Arabs, Christian Arabs, Muslim Arabs and secular Arabs. Arabs have a history going back 6000 years of exporting their violence to any place they can reach. "
.
Violence and tribalism go hand in hand |
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"Have you ever read Professor Collier (of Oxford Uni's) study called "Greed or Grievance"?
In my opinion it's the best scientific study on the matter. You should take a look... "
No.
But I'll take a trip into the central library tomorrow and see if there is a copy on the shelves. (Any chance you have a dewey number, or can tell me what I should search for.) |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Have you ever read Professor Collier (of Oxford Uni's) study called "Greed or Grievance"?
In my opinion it's the best scientific study on the matter. You should take a look...
No.
But I'll take a trip into the central library tomorrow and see if there is a copy on the shelves. (Any chance you have a dewey number, or can tell me what I should search for.) "
Google is your friend |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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".
So how do you account for the sheer volume of mercenaries that ISIS relies on? .
Poverty, religious indoctrination and racism!
If they were indoctrinated they wouldn't be mercenaries! "
.
True, I was really taking about isis fighters in general, they pretty much fall into those three categories.
Arabs are really terrible racists, you can see the fascination with thoroughbred horses, they adore blood lines, it's part of the reason why they picked up monarchy so easily |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"They wouldn't even exist if some bright spark didn't disband the world's 4th largest army in the region of the world with the highest unemployment.
I again agree with you, in fact I would go a lot further. But I have some very non-PC views when it comes to Arabs (of all faiths) and the Middle East.
Well my views aren't about Arabs, I'm talking about dumb ass Republican politicians who thought it was more important to give contracts to Halliburton than create jobs in the region and were more interested in forcing democratic voting on a population that ensuring they could fill up their cars!
Even the UN understands this much. Their first order of business in a war zone, pay people $1 or $2 dollars to clear minefields with big ass sticks. Why? Because it gets the economy moving again.
The truth is that there are hardly any real "terrorists" in ISIS, it's more like 15% genuine nut jobs and 85% mercenaries desperate for a pay day.
Again I agree with what you say about yank policy. However I do not agree with you about IS.
It is my contention that there is something in the Arab psyche that is disturbing. They admire those who use violence to gain and keep power. They believe in the ownership of women and the right to kill women if they displease. They believe that if you have power you must use it.
When we removed the secular psychopaths who kept the religious psychopaths in check it left the religious psychopaths in charge. .
Actually if you look at the numbers game, Islam has troubles, sure they have alot of kids and that's good for any religion, because they all indocrinate them!.
Islam is no different there, however more people leave Islam than join, so having alot of kids is there only hope long term....
Having a job and a better standard of living is a massive massive child birth rate reducer, most western nations dropped into minus figures ie below 2 children after the war, Islam knows this, that's why they push what they push ie women as second class citizens, death for apostasy, children run through the ringers by the age of four.... It's life and death for Islam and it knows it!"
"Islam knows this" - someone's been on the hooch again... |
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"Have you ever read Professor Collier (of Oxford Uni's) study called "Greed or Grievance"?
In my opinion it's the best scientific study on the matter. You should take a look...
No.
But I'll take a trip into the central library tomorrow and see if there is a copy on the shelves. (Any chance you have a dewey number, or can tell me what I should search for.)
Google is your friend "
LoL...
I deserved that, forgive my laziness.;-) |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"They wouldn't even exist if some bright spark didn't disband the world's 4th largest army in the region of the world with the highest unemployment.
I again agree with you, in fact I would go a lot further. But I have some very non-PC views when it comes to Arabs (of all faiths) and the Middle East.
Well my views aren't about Arabs, I'm talking about dumb ass Republican politicians who thought it was more important to give contracts to Halliburton than create jobs in the region and were more interested in forcing democratic voting on a population that ensuring they could fill up their cars!
Even the UN understands this much. Their first order of business in a war zone, pay people $1 or $2 dollars to clear minefields with big ass sticks. Why? Because it gets the economy moving again.
The truth is that there are hardly any real "terrorists" in ISIS, it's more like 15% genuine nut jobs and 85% mercenaries desperate for a pay day.
Again I agree with what you say about yank policy. However I do not agree with you about IS.
It is my contention that there is something in the Arab psyche that is disturbing. They admire those who use violence to gain and keep power. They believe in the ownership of women and the right to kill women if they displease. They believe that if you have power you must use it.
When we removed the secular psychopaths who kept the religious psychopaths in check it left the religious psychopaths in charge. .
Actually if you look at the numbers game, Islam has troubles, sure they have alot of kids and that's good for any religion, because they all indocrinate them!.
Islam is no different there, however more people leave Islam than join, so having alot of kids is there only hope long term....
Having a job and a better standard of living is a massive massive child birth rate reducer, most western nations dropped into minus figures ie below 2 children after the war, Islam knows this, that's why they push what they push ie women as second class citizens, death for apostasy, children run through the ringers by the age of four.... It's life and death for Islam and it knows it!
"Islam knows this" - someone's been on the hooch again... "
.
Ha ...That's why I'm not a Muslim.
.
To imagine something that big and that powerful having no directional forces... That's like saying Google aren't really in charge of android |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"They wouldn't even exist if some bright spark didn't disband the world's 4th largest army in the region of the world with the highest unemployment.
I again agree with you, in fact I would go a lot further. But I have some very non-PC views when it comes to Arabs (of all faiths) and the Middle East.
Well my views aren't about Arabs, I'm talking about dumb ass Republican politicians who thought it was more important to give contracts to Halliburton than create jobs in the region and were more interested in forcing democratic voting on a population that ensuring they could fill up their cars!
Even the UN understands this much. Their first order of business in a war zone, pay people $1 or $2 dollars to clear minefields with big ass sticks. Why? Because it gets the economy moving again.
The truth is that there are hardly any real "terrorists" in ISIS, it's more like 15% genuine nut jobs and 85% mercenaries desperate for a pay day.
Again I agree with what you say about yank policy. However I do not agree with you about IS.
It is my contention that there is something in the Arab psyche that is disturbing. They admire those who use violence to gain and keep power. They believe in the ownership of women and the right to kill women if they displease. They believe that if you have power you must use it.
When we removed the secular psychopaths who kept the religious psychopaths in check it left the religious psychopaths in charge. .
Actually if you look at the numbers game, Islam has troubles, sure they have alot of kids and that's good for any religion, because they all indocrinate them!.
Islam is no different there, however more people leave Islam than join, so having alot of kids is there only hope long term....
Having a job and a better standard of living is a massive massive child birth rate reducer, most western nations dropped into minus figures ie below 2 children after the war, Islam knows this, that's why they push what they push ie women as second class citizens, death for apostasy, children run through the ringers by the age of four.... It's life and death for Islam and it knows it!
"Islam knows this" - someone's been on the hooch again... .
Ha ...That's why I'm not a Muslim.
.
To imagine something that big and that powerful having no directional forces... That's like saying Google aren't really in charge of android "
Yeah its like saying the invisible hand isn't behind capitalist markets  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"They wouldn't even exist if some bright spark didn't disband the world's 4th largest army in the region of the world with the highest unemployment.
I again agree with you, in fact I would go a lot further. But I have some very non-PC views when it comes to Arabs (of all faiths) and the Middle East.
Well my views aren't about Arabs, I'm talking about dumb ass Republican politicians who thought it was more important to give contracts to Halliburton than create jobs in the region and were more interested in forcing democratic voting on a population that ensuring they could fill up their cars!
Even the UN understands this much. Their first order of business in a war zone, pay people $1 or $2 dollars to clear minefields with big ass sticks. Why? Because it gets the economy moving again.
The truth is that there are hardly any real "terrorists" in ISIS, it's more like 15% genuine nut jobs and 85% mercenaries desperate for a pay day.
Again I agree with what you say about yank policy. However I do not agree with you about IS.
It is my contention that there is something in the Arab psyche that is disturbing. They admire those who use violence to gain and keep power. They believe in the ownership of women and the right to kill women if they displease. They believe that if you have power you must use it.
When we removed the secular psychopaths who kept the religious psychopaths in check it left the religious psychopaths in charge. .
Actually if you look at the numbers game, Islam has troubles, sure they have alot of kids and that's good for any religion, because they all indocrinate them!.
Islam is no different there, however more people leave Islam than join, so having alot of kids is there only hope long term....
Having a job and a better standard of living is a massive massive child birth rate reducer, most western nations dropped into minus figures ie below 2 children after the war, Islam knows this, that's why they push what they push ie women as second class citizens, death for apostasy, children run through the ringers by the age of four.... It's life and death for Islam and it knows it!
"Islam knows this" - someone's been on the hooch again... .
Ha ...That's why I'm not a Muslim.
.
To imagine something that big and that powerful having no directional forces... That's like saying Google aren't really in charge of android
Yeah its like saying the invisible hand isn't behind capitalist markets "
.
That's why I said Islam... It's an entity, and entity's have a self preservation quality to them... If they didn't, they wouldn't exist |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
Todays reading from the BBC
The then Labour Prime Minister Tony Blair's decision to commit British troops to the invasion, following a vote authorising military action in the House of Commons, was one of the most controversial foreign policy decisions of the past 50 years.
.
Mr Blair was one of more than 100 witnesses to give evidence to the inquiry, appearing before the panel twice, and the report will include details of declassified Cabinet papers, intelligence assessments of Iraq's weapons capability and private correspondence between Mr Blair and the then US President George W Bush relating to the conflict and the basis for the military intervention.
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The report has been handed to Prime Minister David Cameron and will be available online on the Iraq Inquiry website once Sir John has finished making a statement setting out its findings on Wednesday morning.
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The relatives of British troops and civilians killed in Iraq are being given access to the report prior to its publication although some are boycotting the occasion believing it will be a whitewash
.We didn't set out to criticise individuals from the outset," he said. "We are not a court or a judge and jury.
"On the other hand I made very clear from the start when I launched the inquiry that if we came across things which deserved criticism, of individuals or institutions, we would not shy away from making them and indeed we have."
Mr Blair has, on numerous occasions, defended his decision to commit British troops, saying he would do so again in the face of what he said was a serious threat posed by Saddam Hussein
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Mr Blair is expected to face fresh calls to apologise from political opponents of the war and the relatives of those who were killed during the six years in which British troops were based on Iraqi soil.
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David Cameron voted for the war while he was a backbencher but Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn was an implacable opponent and was one of nearly 140 Labour MPs who opposed the decision to go to war. MPs will get to debate the report in full on Thursday
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Well it has been an interesting 2 hours of listening
So what's the conclusion? "
I have no conclusion, perhaps over the next 2 or 3 months, listening to screened debates will give a clearer picture.
I have always been against Iraq since they burned over 700 Kuwait oil wells, so my view may not be fair to either side |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Planning and preparations for after the war were "wholly inadequate". The government failed to achieve its stated objectives.
As a result of political fuck ups like... not having a plan... 200 British are dead and 150,000 Iraqis.
And they wonder why interest and trust in politics is at all time low... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Tony B to George W on the 30th of Jan 2003 (invasion date: 20th March):
"What happens immediately: a new Iraqi government or US run?"
And that Ladies and Gentlemen, is why I can't believe in conspiracy theories. Less and 2 months before the due date and he's asking the most basic questions possible! |
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