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No Trade Talks Until BREXIT
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By *LCC OP Couple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
Has anyone seen this interview with the EU trade commissioner?
EU Trade Commissioner: No trade talks until full Brexit - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36678222
She says that Britain is still a full member of the EU until the conclusion of the article 50 negotiations which are 2 year, unless agreed by all member states to extend.
As such, until we are no longer a member, Britain cannot even begin to negotiate a trade deal with the EU, or with any other country.
After we leave any trade with the EU will be on the WTO default position until a new trade deal can be arranged. The trade deal with Canada has taken 7 years to negotiate and its expected to take another 2 years to be ratified by all member states.
So it seems as though we might be several years off any new trade agreements. |
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What did everyone expect?
Here is a reality check, we will now pay as much as we did prior to EU exit for access to the EU market and still have to accept all the EU rules, just we will no longer have a say in framing them! LoL |
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"What did everyone expect?
"
I think those that thought with their heads weighed up the pros and cons and gambled that it would be a rocky few years, but it would all come good in the end.
Those that voted purely on immigration thought 24 June all foreigners would be given their exit papers, the EU would be chomping at the bit to deal with us, and all payments suspended to be spent on UK infrastructure and services.
There are going to be a lot of disappointed people. |
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By *LCC OP Couple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"And in other breaking news its friday"
Well it just seemed to be in other threads that we would be doing trade deals left right and centre within a few months, rather than wait 2+ years before we could even begin the negotiations. |
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By *LCC OP Couple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"That's the EU opening position on negotiations, we won't even have a negotiations team for another three months, whatever they say is academic until then. "
So what's our starting point? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Worse decision of my life was to vote out...being a public sector worker and since having thing's explained to me in lamens terms...I am gonna be fucked  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Worse decision of my life was to vote out...being a public sector worker and since having thing's explained to me in lamens terms...I am gonna be fucked "
What was the crux of your decision to vote out? Purely interested, not trying to start another war! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Worse decision of my life was to vote out...being a public sector worker and since having thing's explained to me in lamens terms...I am gonna be fucked "
Forget all the bluff and bluster. Nobody actually knows whether this is for the best or not yet. And we won't for a few years yet.
The economy has tanked over the last week, but all this talk of whether or not it's up or down is bollocks. It's the long term that matters and anyone that takes the last week as indicative is just scoring points. If all the people on here were so knowledgeable on the economy as they pretend, they probably wouldn't be on here.
As for the politics. Hmmm. Maybe, just maybe it was time we had a fundamental shake up of the political classes. Both sides lied and not many people voted with facts at all.
I voted with remain. But I wavered substantially and nearly didn't vote at all as I felt I didn't have any facts to vote with.
All in all, it's a dogs dinner with liars, idiots and people who believe there own publicity on both sides, both in and out of the political elites. |
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By *LCC OP Couple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"Worse decision of my life was to vote out...being a public sector worker and since having thing's explained to me in lamens terms...I am gonna be fucked
Forget all the bluff and bluster. Nobody actually knows whether this is for the best or not yet. And we won't for a few years yet.
The economy has tanked over the last week, but all this talk of whether or not it's up or down is bollocks. It's the long term that matters and anyone that takes the last week as indicative is just scoring points. If all the people on here were so knowledgeable on the economy as they pretend, they probably wouldn't be on here.
As for the politics. Hmmm. Maybe, just maybe it was time we had a fundamental shake up of the political classes. Both sides lied and not many people voted with facts at all.
I voted with remain. But I wavered substantially and nearly didn't vote at all as I felt I didn't have any facts to vote with.
All in all, it's a dogs dinner with liars, idiots and people who believe there own publicity on both sides, both in and out of the political elites."
I think that I still believe all the expert economists that said it would be bad for our economy to leave.
I don't remember the Leave campaign ever suggesting that it might take 11+ years to get a new trade deal with the EU. |
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By *olgateMan
over a year ago
on the road to nowhere in particular |
"Worse decision of my life was to vote out...being a public sector worker and since having thing's explained to me in lamens terms...I am gonna be fucked "
If it was laymen explaining I wouldn't worry.
Germany will be fast tracking a deal to protect 750,000 jobs. The are upset with France for playing hardball with UK |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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It's great that we are talking about the future. How ever we don't know anything.
Nothing will change for at least a couple of years until we leave. Those feeding the media do not know either as they may well not be around themselves.
I think we should be looking 10 yrs down the line not 10 days |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Worse decision of my life was to vote out...being a public sector worker and since having thing's explained to me in lamens terms...I am gonna be fucked
Forget all the bluff and bluster. Nobody actually knows whether this is for the best or not yet. And we won't for a few years yet.
The economy has tanked over the last week, but all this talk of whether or not it's up or down is bollocks. It's the long term that matters and anyone that takes the last week as indicative is just scoring points. If all the people on here were so knowledgeable on the economy as they pretend, they probably wouldn't be on here.
As for the politics. Hmmm. Maybe, just maybe it was time we had a fundamental shake up of the political classes. Both sides lied and not many people voted with facts at all.
I voted with remain. But I wavered substantially and nearly didn't vote at all as I felt I didn't have any facts to vote with.
All in all, it's a dogs dinner with liars, idiots and people who believe there own publicity on both sides, both in and out of the political elites.
I think that I still believe all the expert economists that said it would be bad for our economy to leave.
I don't remember the Leave campaign ever suggesting that it might take 11+ years to get a new trade deal with the EU. "
That's if the EU still exists then, I think by that time the UK will have worked out trade deals with many other countries by then anyways.
The likes of Germany are not going to wait years and years before sorting out a deal with the UK outside the EU and the same will go for France.
They stand to lose too much in exports to the UK |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Worse decision of my life was to vote out...being a public sector worker and since having thing's explained to me in lamens terms...I am gonna be fucked
If it was laymen explaining I wouldn't worry.
Germany will be fast tracking a deal to protect 750,000 jobs. The are upset with France for playing hardball with UK"
Doesn't matter what Germany wants though. The other 27 countries will have a say in the matter too. |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
".............
The likes of Germany are not going to wait years and years before sorting out a deal with the UK outside the EU and the same will go for France.
They stand to lose too much in exports to the UK"
You think too much like an Englander and assume those subservient Europeans are going to think the same way that you do. In the same way that the UK acted as an equal amongst 28, so Germany will act as an equal amongst the 27.
The EU will do everything it can to stop contagion from Brexit and of that you can be 100% sure. |
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By *LCC OP Couple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"Worse decision of my life was to vote out...being a public sector worker and since having thing's explained to me in lamens terms...I am gonna be fucked
Forget all the bluff and bluster. Nobody actually knows whether this is for the best or not yet. And we won't for a few years yet.
The economy has tanked over the last week, but all this talk of whether or not it's up or down is bollocks. It's the long term that matters and anyone that takes the last week as indicative is just scoring points. If all the people on here were so knowledgeable on the economy as they pretend, they probably wouldn't be on here.
As for the politics. Hmmm. Maybe, just maybe it was time we had a fundamental shake up of the political classes. Both sides lied and not many people voted with facts at all.
I voted with remain. But I wavered substantially and nearly didn't vote at all as I felt I didn't have any facts to vote with.
All in all, it's a dogs dinner with liars, idiots and people who believe there own publicity on both sides, both in and out of the political elites.
I think that I still believe all the expert economists that said it would be bad for our economy to leave.
I don't remember the Leave campaign ever suggesting that it might take 11+ years to get a new trade deal with the EU.
That's if the EU still exists then, I think by that time the UK will have worked out trade deals with many other countries by then anyways.
The likes of Germany are not going to wait years and years before sorting out a deal with the UK outside the EU and the same will go for France.
They stand to lose too much in exports to the UK"
Germany and France cant organise trade deals with us outside of the EU, we can only arrange a trade deal with the EU as a single tradingblock. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
".............
The likes of Germany are not going to wait years and years before sorting out a deal with the UK outside the EU and the same will go for France.
They stand to lose too much in exports to the UK
You think too much like an Englander and assume those subservient Europeans are going to think the same way that you do. In the same way that the UK acted as an equal amongst 28, so Germany will act as an equal amongst the 27.
The EU will do everything it can to stop contagion from Brexit and of that you can be 100% sure."
you are right. Which is why we will get good deals  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
".............
The likes of Germany are not going to wait years and years before sorting out a deal with the UK outside the EU and the same will go for France.
They stand to lose too much in exports to the UK
You think too much like an Englander and assume those subservient Europeans are going to think the same way that you do. In the same way that the UK acted as an equal amongst 28, so Germany will act as an equal amongst the 27.
The EU will do everything it can to stop contagion from Brexit and of that you can be 100% sure.
you are right. Which is why we will get good deals "
A good deal for the UK will just increase contagion. |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"Worse decision of my life was to vote out...being a public sector worker and since having thing's explained to me in lamens terms...I am gonna be fucked
If it was laymen explaining I wouldn't worry.
Germany will be fast tracking a deal to protect 750,000 jobs. The are upset with France for playing hardball with UK
Doesn't matter what Germany wants though. The other 27 countries will have a say in the matter too. "
This |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The EU is not free trade anyway because you have to pay to trade with them and be a member.
So weather you add tariffs on the products or pay a subscription it's all the same, but then you don't have to have the other things like free movement of unskilled labour that you do not need.
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"The EU is not free trade anyway because you have to pay to trade with them and be a member.
So weather you add tariffs on the products or pay a subscription it's all the same, but then you don't have to have the other things like free movement of unskilled labour that you do not need.
"
Pay tariffs they will be passed on to the consumer ..pay EU membership you're taxes pay it and can you really imagine any future government reducing taxes as a result of the saving The EU membership costs . |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
".............
The likes of Germany are not going to wait years and years before sorting out a deal with the UK outside the EU and the same will go for France.
They stand to lose too much in exports to the UK
You think too much like an Englander and assume those subservient Europeans are going to think the same way that you do. In the same way that the UK acted as an equal amongst 28, so Germany will act as an equal amongst the 27.
The EU will do everything it can to stop contagion from Brexit and of that you can be 100% sure.
you are right. Which is why we will get good deals
A good deal for the UK will just increase contagion. "
no, a bad deal will damage other countries economies in the euro zone, creating more unrest and increasing the risk of contagion |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
So basically what the Remainers are saying is that all it would take for other countries to leave the EU is for the UK to get a decent trade deal? Why would they want to do that if being a part of the EU is so good?
Or do they know deep down that it's shite and not worth being a part of? |
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"So basically what the Remainers are saying is that all it would take for other countries to leave the EU is for the UK to get a decent trade deal? Why would they want to do that if being a part of the EU is so good?
Or do they know deep down that it's shite and not worth being a part of?"
No that's your opinion I believe we will get a good deal along the lines of a norway/Swiss deal much lime the deal we had but without being a member ..best deal all-round not a member suits brexiters .but retain all the benefits we had .happy united country again ... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
".............
The likes of Germany are not going to wait years and years before sorting out a deal with the UK outside the EU and the same will go for France.
They stand to lose too much in exports to the UK
You think too much like an Englander and assume those subservient Europeans are going to think the same way that you do. In the same way that the UK acted as an equal amongst 28, so Germany will act as an equal amongst the 27.
The EU will do everything it can to stop contagion from Brexit and of that you can be 100% sure.
you are right. Which is why we will get good deals
A good deal for the UK will just increase contagion.
no, a bad deal will damage other countries economies in the euro zone, creating more unrest and increasing the risk of contagion"
And a good deal will be the end of the EU which will be far more damaging to their economics. Either way they lose out, but by giving the UK a bad deal they lose less. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"So basically what the Remainers are saying is that all it would take for other countries to leave the EU is for the UK to get a decent trade deal? Why would they want to do that if being a part of the EU is so good?
Or do they know deep down that it's shite and not worth being a part of?"
Because the best thing about being part of the EU is the trade deal.
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The easy answer is if they offer a bad deal then you walk away.
That's what David Cameron should have done in the first place he should have just got up and walked out.
The EU was not willing to listen then and they will not listen now, just give the same old answers over again.
I see Gove has said he would not initialise rule 50 until next year they will not be happy about that if he is pm |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"So basically what the Remainers are saying is that all it would take for other countries to leave the EU is for the UK to get a decent trade deal? Why would they want to do that if being a part of the EU is so good?
Or do they know deep down that it's shite and not worth being a part of?
Because the best thing about being part of the EU is the trade deal.
"
what? You mean like a Common Market? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"So basically what the Remainers are saying is that all it would take for other countries to leave the EU is for the UK to get a decent trade deal? Why would they want to do that if being a part of the EU is so good?
Or do they know deep down that it's shite and not worth being a part of?
Because the best thing about being part of the EU is the trade deal.
what? You mean like a Common Market?"
Yes |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"So basically what the Remainers are saying is that all it would take for other countries to leave the EU is for the UK to get a decent trade deal? Why would they want to do that if being a part of the EU is so good?
Or do they know deep down that it's shite and not worth being a part of?
Because the best thing about being part of the EU is the trade deal.
what? You mean like a Common Market?
Yes"
that would have been a good idea if left at that |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"So basically what the Remainers are saying is that all it would take for other countries to leave the EU is for the UK to get a decent trade deal? Why would they want to do that if being a part of the EU is so good?
Or do they know deep down that it's shite and not worth being a part of?
Because the best thing about being part of the EU is the trade deal.
what? You mean like a Common Market?
Yes
that would have been a good idea if left at that"
I agree. The beast has gotten too big to kill now though. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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A couple of points if I may?
The '2 year' limit after Article 50 is triggered is the maximum time for negotiations. It may take 3 months. No one actually knows but given the stance of the EU is' exit then negotiate' then apart from safeguarding UK nationals in the EU and EU nationals in the UK there isn't much to talk about. Personally I would trigger Article 50 the day after the new PM takes office and tell them we are out on April 4th 2017. Just in time to start a new Financial Year after a new Chancellor has laid out our first post-Brexit Autumn Statement in November. These actions will give clarity and confidence to the markets which incidentally are recovering despite Osborne's insistence on continuing with Project Fear. Someone should have a word ....
We then start trade negotiations but the EU hasn't said what the interim position will be and for how long. I am quite amazed at some comments that 'it will take 11 years' etc ... No it won't and for 61 Billion reasons. That is how much our trade deficit is with the EU. It is actually £77 Billion in goods but we have a small surplus in services despite there being no 'Single Market in services. Yet. It is not being a 'Little Englander' to realise that if the EU say its 10% in and out then we make £6 Bn a year extra for our Treasury paid by the importers. Maybe it will reduce imports who knows? That cash could be diverted to assist UK exporters shipping to the EU. Like refunding the duties they have to pay to the EU. And outside the EU we can do that as much as we like.
And for clarity the WTO does not specify Tariffs or Duties. It monitors deals and behaviour to ensure equal and fair trading between member states. And we will resume our UK seat at the WTO rather than be 1/28th of the EU seat. Technically yes we have a seat available now but we cannot negotiate our own deals as we are part of the EU. The EU will not be allowed to penalise us by way of trade. It is against WTO rules. What it does to us it must do to everyone.
Just my take on things as I really can't see us letting the EU drag things out for years. We are OUT and that gives us a totally free hand as to how we manage our affairs. I think people have been too used to having the EU dictate things to us and are still in that mindset. Freedom is a new thing to the UK but lets be creative and be the best we can be ... |
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"A couple of points if I may?
The '2 year' limit after Article 50 is triggered is the maximum time for negotiations. It may take 3 months. No one actually knows but given the stance of the EU is' exit then negotiate' then apart from safeguarding UK nationals in the EU and EU nationals in the UK there isn't much to talk about. Personally I would trigger Article 50 the day after the new PM takes office and tell them we are out on April 4th 2017. Just in time to start a new Financial Year after a new Chancellor has laid out our first post-Brexit Autumn Statement in November. These actions will give clarity and confidence to the markets which incidentally are recovering despite Osborne's insistence on continuing with Project Fear. Someone should have a word ....
We then start trade negotiations but the EU hasn't said what the interim position will be and for how long. I am quite amazed at some comments that 'it will take 11 years' etc ... No it won't and for 61 Billion reasons. That is how much our trade deficit is with the EU. It is actually £77 Billion in goods but we have a small surplus in services despite there being no 'Single Market in services. Yet. It is not being a 'Little Englander' to realise that if the EU say its 10% in and out then we make £6 Bn a year extra for our Treasury paid by the importers. Maybe it will reduce imports who knows? That cash could be diverted to assist UK exporters shipping to the EU. Like refunding the duties they have to pay to the EU. And outside the EU we can do that as much as we like.
And for clarity the WTO does not specify Tariffs or Duties. It monitors deals and behaviour to ensure equal and fair trading between member states. And we will resume our UK seat at the WTO rather than be 1/28th of the EU seat. Technically yes we have a seat available now but we cannot negotiate our own deals as we are part of the EU. The EU will not be allowed to penalise us by way of trade. It is against WTO rules. What it does to us it must do to everyone.
Just my take on things as I really can't see us letting the EU drag things out for years. We are OUT and that gives us a totally free hand as to how we manage our affairs. I think people have been too used to having the EU dictate things to us and are still in that mindset. Freedom is a new thing to the UK but lets be creative and be the best we can be ... "
So you've clearly not read what ties the UK to the Eu .fantasy land again |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Can we please ban the use of two words: Norway and Switzerland.
Nope bookies favorite will be Norway / Swiss / UK deal
bookies favourite was Remain"
Very true 
you-gov polls got it wrong too, but them I indicated I was voting remain in you-gov poll |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Can we please ban the use of two words: Norway and Switzerland.
Nope bookies favorite will be Norway / Swiss / UK deal
bookies favourite was Remain"
Interestingly the Bookies after the vote said that more money was put on 'Remain' (hence the odds) but twice as many bets were placed on 'Leave'. Which was a more accurate indication... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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" So you've clearly not read what ties the UK to the Eu .fantasy land again "
And once again you trot out an opinion that bears no facts or detail. Apart from securing the positions of EU Nationals working here (not just living here) and the similar positions of UK Nationals in the EU do inform us what else 'ties us to the EU'.
Maybe you missed the EU Trade Commissioner saying 'Brexit then negotiate'. |
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" So you've clearly not read what ties the UK to the Eu .fantasy land again
And once again you trot out an opinion that bears no facts or detail. Apart from securing the positions of EU Nationals working here (not just living here) and the similar positions of UK Nationals in the EU do inform us what else 'ties us to the EU'.
Maybe you missed the EU Trade Commissioner saying 'Brexit then negotiate'."
dont you search for information? the issue of joint assets joint liabilities with the eu also around 80 000 pages of laws regulations that tie us to the eu ..you need do do homework before continually replying ..dont be lazy do your research before hitting the keyboard with an ill informed opinion |
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" So you've clearly not read what ties the UK to the Eu .fantasy land again
And once again you trot out an opinion that bears no facts or detail. Apart from securing the positions of EU Nationals working here (not just living here) and the similar positions of UK Nationals in the EU do inform us what else 'ties us to the EU'.
Maybe you missed the EU Trade Commissioner saying 'Brexit then negotiate'."
dont you search for information? the issue of joint assets joint liabilities with the eu also around 80 000 pages of laws regulations that tie us to the eu ..you need do do homework before continually replying ..dont be lazy do your research before hitting the keyboard with an ill informed opinion |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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" dont you search for information? the issue of joint assets joint liabilities with the eu also around 80 000 pages of laws regulations that tie us to the eu ..you need do do homework before continually replying ..dont be lazy do your research before hitting the keyboard with an ill informed opinion "
Well so you say. Care to give some examples or even better some sources? What do we jointly own with the EU? To what are we liable with the EU? We are paying members of a club we now wish to leave. We stop paying and we are out. Period.
You raise the spectre of 80,000 pages of legislation and just busted the myth that the EU never ran our Parliament ... However we repeal that legislation over a period of time post Brexit as we legally cannot while we are still IN the EU can we?. Its night following day. And given all the relevant Acts were passed BY our own Parliament then they are in fact UK law. But one enabling Act (similar to the enabling Act used for HS2 before final legislation becomes Law) will cover the converting / repealing period. As an independent Parliament it can now do what it couldn't before. It has the freedom to pass whatever legislation it cares to pass... I know this is an odd concept to you EU Luvvies but hey we were doing it for a thousand years before the EU came into existence just 20 years ago. All that damage is such a short time eh?... |
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" dont you search for information? the issue of joint assets joint liabilities with the eu also around 80 000 pages of laws regulations that tie us to the eu ..you need do do homework before continually replying ..dont be lazy do your research before hitting the keyboard with an ill informed opinion
Well so you say. Care to give some examples or even better some sources? What do we jointly own with the EU? To what are we liable with the EU? We are paying members of a club we now wish to leave. We stop paying and we are out. Period.
You raise the spectre of 80,000 pages of legislation and just busted the myth that the EU never ran our Parliament ... However we repeal that legislation over a period of time post Brexit as we legally cannot while we are still IN the EU can we?. Its night following day. And given all the relevant Acts were passed BY our own Parliament then they are in fact UK law. But one enabling Act (similar to the enabling Act used for HS2 before final legislation becomes Law) will cover the converting / repealing period. As an independent Parliament it can now do what it couldn't before. It has the freedom to pass whatever legislation it cares to pass... I know this is an odd concept to you EU Luvvies but hey we were doing it for a thousand years before the EU came into existence just 20 years ago. All that damage is such a short time eh?... "
so still to lazy to check what youre spouting |
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" dont you search for information? the issue of joint assets joint liabilities with the eu also around 80 000 pages of laws regulations that tie us to the eu ..you need do do homework before continually replying ..dont be lazy do your research before hitting the keyboard with an ill informed opinion
Well so you say. Care to give some examples or even better some sources? What do we jointly own with the EU? To what are we liable with the EU? We are paying members of a club we now wish to leave. We stop paying and we are out. Period.
You raise the spectre of 80,000 pages of legislation and just busted the myth that the EU never ran our Parliament ... However we repeal that legislation over a period of time post Brexit as we legally cannot while we are still IN the EU can we?. Its night following day. And given all the relevant Acts were passed BY our own Parliament then they are in fact UK law. But one enabling Act (similar to the enabling Act used for HS2 before final legislation becomes Law) will cover the converting / repealing period. As an independent Parliament it can now do what it couldn't before. It has the freedom to pass whatever legislation it cares to pass... I know this is an odd concept to you EU Luvvies but hey we were doing it for a thousand years before the EU came into existence just 20 years ago. All that damage is such a short time eh?...
so still to lazy to check what youre spouting "
because youre lazy here are some examples of issues needing agrement Examples of other issues that negotiations would also need to cover in the context of
managing the transition, fixing the terms of exit and, fixing any future arrangement, include:
• unspent EU funds due to UK regions and farmers;
• cross-border security arrangements including access to EU databases;
• co-operation on foreign policy, including sanctions;
• transfer of regulatory responsibilities;
• arrangements for contracts drawn up in accordance with EU law;
• access to EU agencies that play a role in UK domestic law, such as the European
Medicines Agency;
• transition arrangements for UK exit from EU Free Trade Agreements with third countries;
• arrangements for the closure of EU agencies headquartered in the UK;
• departure from the Single European Sky arrangement;
• access for UK citizens to the European Health Insurance Card;
• the rights of UK fishermen to fish in traditional non-UK waters, including those in the
North Sea;
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The original article stating no EU renegotiation can take place until after article 50.
It says nothing about renegotiating with Canada, New Zealand, Australia, South Africa or indeed any other nation part of the British Commonwealth. Then there are the emerging pan Asian markets.... there is a world outside of planet EU.
If they had stuck to the common market instead of trying to form the Unites States of Europe we would not be in this position. |
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"The original article stating no EU renegotiation can take place until after article 50.
It says nothing about renegotiating with Canada, New Zealand, Australia, South Africa or indeed any other nation part of the British Commonwealth. Then there are the emerging pan Asian markets.... there is a world outside of planet EU.
If they had stuck to the common market instead of trying to form the Unites States of Europe we would not be in this position. "
the problem is many of our non-EU trading partners are already
negotiating with the EU, and before they started negotiations with the UK they would be likely
to want those deals to conclude. Even the countries which already have a deal in place with
the EU are likely to want to see the terms of our future relationship before negotiating any
new trade agreements with the UK. This would make it hard to negotiate our post-withdrawal
arrangement with the EU in parallel with negotiating a new set of trade deals with countries
outside of the EU. And it means that lengthening the Article 50 process to secure a good
outcome with the EU could delay new trade deals with countries outside of the EU |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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" • unspent EU funds due to UK regions and farmers;"
If its in a budget it gets spent as before. The date of leaving the EU is the date that budget ends and we take control of that spending.
" • cross-border security arrangements including access to EU databases"
The UK has the best intelligence and security services in the world. we give more to the EU than they ever give us. They never saw Paris or Brussels coming did they? Word is we did and they ignored it. We only have one border and we are already talking with the Irish on reinstating the CTA.
" • co-operation on foreign policy, including sanctions "
We co-operate with the UN OK so why not the EU?
" • transfer of regulatory responsibilities;"
very vague comment but if you mean creation of new regulations that is a job for our Parliament. If you mean delivering that regulation we already do that for EU sourced regulation so nothing new.
" • arrangements for contracts drawn up in accordance with EU law"
A contract is a contract. Nothing changes.
" • access to EU agencies that play a role in UK domestic law, such as the European
Medicines Agency"
We already have our own regulators for medical matters. If any research is valid is published and we can access it. Just as we access research from the USA for example.
" • transition arrangements for UK exit from EU Free Trade Agreements with third countries;
• arrangements for the closure of EU agencies headquartered in the UK;
• departure from the Single European Sky arrangement"
All trade related matters and post - Brexit discussions. Who knows the EU may wish to keep staff here ...
" • access for UK citizens to the European Health Insurance Card;"
We had reciprocal arrangements before we joined the EEC let alone the EU. No reason that can't continue and it will be a post-Brexit matter
" • the rights of UK fishermen to fish in traditional non-UK waters, including those in the North Sea"
This again is a post-Brexit trade discussion for waters beyond the 200 mile limit. Inside that they are our waters and we will decide.
I am sorry but nothing you listed is anything to do with our actually leaving the EU. They either end anyway when we leave (like farmers budgets) or will be part of the post-Brexit trade negotiations. So are you saying the EU will try and delay our leaving by threatening to remove the medical card system (for example)? The Eu have made it clear they want NO delay in our departure which I think can be managed very quickly as it is fundamentally simple. The trade and other matters are post-Brexit and will possibly drag on. Of course the EU would have to justify to the WTO why they are seeking to penalise the UK if they fail to keep the 'status quo' arrangements while new ones are agreed .... |
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" • unspent EU funds due to UK regions and farmers;
If its in a budget it gets spent as before. The date of leaving the EU is the date that budget ends and we take control of that spending.
• cross-border security arrangements including access to EU databases
The UK has the best intelligence and security services in the world. we give more to the EU than they ever give us. They never saw Paris or Brussels coming did they? Word is we did and they ignored it. We only have one border and we are already talking with the Irish on reinstating the CTA.
• co-operation on foreign policy, including sanctions
We co-operate with the UN OK so why not the EU?
• transfer of regulatory responsibilities;
very vague comment but if you mean creation of new regulations that is a job for our Parliament. If you mean delivering that regulation we already do that for EU sourced regulation so nothing new.
• arrangements for contracts drawn up in accordance with EU law
A contract is a contract. Nothing changes.
• access to EU agencies that play a role in UK domestic law, such as the European
Medicines Agency
We already have our own regulators for medical matters. If any research is valid is published and we can access it. Just as we access research from the USA for example.
• transition arrangements for UK exit from EU Free Trade Agreements with third countries;
• arrangements for the closure of EU agencies headquartered in the UK;
• departure from the Single European Sky arrangement
All trade related matters and post - Brexit discussions. Who knows the EU may wish to keep staff here ...
• access for UK citizens to the European Health Insurance Card;
We had reciprocal arrangements before we joined the EEC let alone the EU. No reason that can't continue and it will be a post-Brexit matter
• the rights of UK fishermen to fish in traditional non-UK waters, including those in the North Sea
This again is a post-Brexit trade discussion for waters beyond the 200 mile limit. Inside that they are our waters and we will decide.
I am sorry but nothing you listed is anything to do with our actually leaving the EU. They either end anyway when we leave (like farmers budgets) or will be part of the post-Brexit trade negotiations. So are you saying the EU will try and delay our leaving by threatening to remove the medical card system (for example)? The Eu have made it clear they want NO delay in our departure which I think can be managed very quickly as it is fundamentally simple. The trade and other matters are post-Brexit and will possibly drag on. Of course the EU would have to justify to the WTO why they are seeking to penalise the UK if they fail to keep the 'status quo' arrangements while new ones are agreed ...."
As I said you have done no research into leaving clearly evident by your remarks I couldn't care I we leave next week or in a decade lets see when your patience runs out with the brexit negotiating team as they get down too prolonged work .. |
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" • unspent EU funds due to UK regions and farmers;
If its in a budget it gets spent as before. The date of leaving the EU is the date that budget ends and we take control of that spending.
• cross-border security arrangements including access to EU databases
The UK has the best intelligence and security services in the world. we give more to the EU than they ever give us. They never saw Paris or Brussels coming did they? Word is we did and they ignored it. We only have one border and we are already talking with the Irish on reinstating the CTA.
• co-operation on foreign policy, including sanctions
We co-operate with the UN OK so why not the EU?
• transfer of regulatory responsibilities;
very vague comment but if you mean creation of new regulations that is a job for our Parliament. If you mean delivering that regulation we already do that for EU sourced regulation so nothing new.
• arrangements for contracts drawn up in accordance with EU law
A contract is a contract. Nothing changes.
• access to EU agencies that play a role in UK domestic law, such as the European
Medicines Agency
We already have our own regulators for medical matters. If any research is valid is published and we can access it. Just as we access research from the USA for example.
• transition arrangements for UK exit from EU Free Trade Agreements with third countries;
• arrangements for the closure of EU agencies headquartered in the UK;
• departure from the Single European Sky arrangement
All trade related matters and post - Brexit discussions. Who knows the EU may wish to keep staff here ...
• access for UK citizens to the European Health Insurance Card;
We had reciprocal arrangements before we joined the EEC let alone the EU. No reason that can't continue and it will be a post-Brexit matter
• the rights of UK fishermen to fish in traditional non-UK waters, including those in the North Sea
This again is a post-Brexit trade discussion for waters beyond the 200 mile limit. Inside that they are our waters and we will decide.
I am sorry but nothing you listed is anything to do with our actually leaving the EU. They either end anyway when we leave (like farmers budgets) or will be part of the post-Brexit trade negotiations. So are you saying the EU will try and delay our leaving by threatening to remove the medical card system (for example)? The Eu have made it clear they want NO delay in our departure which I think can be managed very quickly as it is fundamentally simple. The trade and other matters are post-Brexit and will possibly drag on. Of course the EU would have to justify to the WTO why they are seeking to penalise the UK if they fail to keep the 'status quo' arrangements while new ones are agreed ....
As I said you have done no research into leaving clearly evident by your remarks I couldn't care I we leave next week or in a decade lets see when your patience runs out with the brexit negotiating team as they get down too prolonged work .."
You cant even get your age right on your profile ..no.wonder you think leaving the EU is like ditching your gym membership ... Start looking at it like a divorce or business partnership split .. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Ah why waste time having a sensible conversation when you can make a cheap personal dig? AT least I am honest enough to have corrected my mistake. Sadly you never admit to making any ... |
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"Ah why waste time having a sensible conversation when you can make a cheap personal dig? AT least I am honest enough to have corrected my mistake. Sadly you never admit to making any ..."
I was but unfortunately you will still not research the full difficulties in negotiating an exit let alone what replaces it ..i can understand as it took ukip over 15 years before they understood article 50,was the legal mechanism for an exit ..before that they preached vote today leave tomorrow.. |
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By *arry247Couple
over a year ago
Wakefield |
Let’s get away from the lies and propaganda and look at the facts.
EFTA (European Free Trade Association) already has access to the Single Market without free movement of people.
The UK was one of the founding members of EFTA but left in 1973 when we joined the EEC (European Economic Community).
We could easily rejoin EFTA (current members Norway, Sweden, Switzerland, and Austria) as it would benefit them for us to do so. We could negotiate a deal to start as soon as the 2 years specified in article 50 ends that would also have the benefit of putting additional pressure on the EU to negotiate sensibly.
That would automatically give the UK access to the single market.
In addition EFTA has concluded free trade deals with more countries round the world than the EU which has to some extent become Fortress Europe putting up trade tariffs which acts as barriers to world trade.
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By *LCC OP Couple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"Let’s get away from the lies and propaganda and look at the facts.
EFTA (European Free Trade Association) already has access to the Single Market without free movement of people.
The UK was one of the founding members of EFTA but left in 1973 when we joined the EEC (European Economic Community).
We could easily rejoin EFTA (current members Norway, Sweden, Switzerland, and Austria) as it would benefit them for us to do so. We could negotiate a deal to start as soon as the 2 years specified in article 50 ends that would also have the benefit of putting additional pressure on the EU to negotiate sensibly.
That would automatically give the UK access to the single market.
In addition EFTA has concluded free trade deals with more countries round the world than the EU which has to some extent become Fortress Europe putting up trade tariffs which acts as barriers to world trade.
"
If we are getting away from lies and propaganda, we can't negotiate a deal to start with anyone as soon as the two years are up.
We have to wait until the two years are up before we can even begin to negotiate.
China has stated that they believe it will take 10 years to negotiate a bilateral trade deal between the UK and China.
The recent EU trade deal between Canada and the EU has taken 7 years to negotiate and its expected to take another 2 years to ratify.
We only have a finite number of skilled civil servants who are going to be capable of negotiating these deals, and we are suddenly going to need a whole lot of them to negotiate so many individual bilateral agreements. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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" If we are getting away from lies and propaganda, we can't negotiate a deal to start with anyone as soon as the two years are up.
We have to wait until the two years are up before we can even begin to negotiate. "
Where on earth do you get this 2 year wait from? We can start negotiating with anyone we like right now. Including China with whom we already do a considerable amount of trade. How do we do that without a Trade Agreement?
It was the EU Trade Commissioner that has said we can't negotiate on trade with the EU until after we leave. No one else was or could be mentioned. But we can leave as quickly as we choose just as we can trigger Article 50 whenever we choose. Basically we agree a date and leave. Or we could stop paying and be expelled... (not a wise plan but I make the point).
The vast majority of trade deals under which we export are Bilateral Agreements. ie nothing to do with the EU. The problem is the EU has so entwined itself round every member country that everyone thinks everything is down to them. It isn't. For example we have better Trade Arrangements with Canada because we are both members of the Commonwealth, as are over 50 others, and operate under more preferential terms than do our so called EU friends.
We had to agree to adopt EU Import Quotas and Duties because the EU 'protects' this wonderful Single Market that everyone gobs off about. Makes one wonder if it is so great why does it need 'protecting' but never mind. All we have to do is drop the high EU Import Tariffs and everyone will want to do business. Changing a Treaty is far far easier than writing a new one and I doubt we will need to do that. Again what we are seeing is the Establishment and the Civil Service looking for ways to make things look difficult so it costs more money, takes as long as possible and we employ more 'experts'. Anyone who has been involved in TUPE transfers knows how easy it is to transfer a contract from one owner to another. A trade deal is a contract and as I said most are Bilateral and nothing to do with the EU. |
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By *LCC OP Couple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"We can start planning trade deals with who we like as what can they do throw us out lol.
The trade deal with the EU would be part of exit,has to be as life will go on the day after."
No we cant. Just because you say we can, that doesn't make it true. The EU have stated that we have to leave, and then after we have left, we can then negotiate about trade. This is what the EU commissioner had said because this is what is laid out in the treaties that we have signed. |
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People have been mis directed when it comes to their issues and blamed the wrong institution.
If this government did not put its ideological agenda of austerity on the people and used the 800billion in addition to the bailout on infrastructure, manufacturing and education projects as the US did in the 30s we would not be in the crap we are in now as more people wold be employed. In addition, this would have increased revenues and give more money to HMRC, Customs to seek out tax avoiders, rogue employers that exploit EU labour. They could have tackled the rent and built more houses, employed more teachers etc. That is what real growth in an economy does.
Let's take the NHS, which was part of the Brexit camps argument....France and Germany put in around 11-12% of GDP in their health; we put the same as CostaRice around 8.5%... I would like to know how the EU caused our NHS demise and that the government after Brexit would even think of matching France and Germany...Please note if you did not know France and Germany are in the EU.
These are the examples of why we are really feeling the pinch. People also blame the EU governing us! Well no we have vetoed and got through 95% of laws we did not like the rest we agreed and allowed EU to hold us to this. No different to a UK precedence in principle. A rule made and judge holds to account. I am not saying this is perfect but the good out ways the bad and when the likes of Farage not turning up to EU parliament, he could have argued the UKs corner but did not as he was never their just taking the EU salary!
My main concern is the reason these MPs wanted Brexit, they have already stated they hate the ECHR and now the Working Time Directive has too much Red Tape? This word Red Tape is banded as a bad thing, in his case it is WORKERS RIGHTS! The ECHR is not the EU and know people will point it out but if you start to get rid of workers rights then at least you had the human rights act to help fight your corner and held independently from an ideological government that will rip up laws every 5 years to suit themselves and not the people.
This is my concern about all of this and this talk of we will expect hard times and will ride the waves until gold is on the horizon. Well economies being hit will wear people down and when they are on the breadline for 5 to 10 years, they will change their tune. Usually when economies pick up in UK it is for the service industries (banks) and not for the average perso and many that live up North which need manufacturing investment... So dream on about it all being rosy if we bet on this current shower. |
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