FabSwingers.com > Forums > Politics > Is Brexit a done deal?
Is Brexit a done deal?
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It can be stopped at any time, simply due to the nature of it being an advisory referendum. It hold no legal ramifications for the government to carry it out, as such they can simply say "thans for your opinion, but such a move is currently untenable"
We have not left the the eu!!
It is only irreversible once article 50 is signed, until then the referendum was nothing more than the government poling the opinion of the people.
And once again, as im now sick of people on both side calling eachother thick or uneducated.
WE HAVE NOT LEFT THE EU!!
Ps: as its also been asked alot (ironicaly by the apparent highly educated in voters) we cant leave europe, its a bloody continent and moving a land mass isnt simple. The EU is not europe. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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there is a very slim chance that article 50 will not be invoked but i think this is highly unlikley.
a majority of the population voted against us remaining in the EU
(would you want to be the political party that went against the People. look whats happened elsewhere when they have tried)
The EU Members have already decided that they Want Us out the sooner the better so do you really think it would be a wise idea to try groveling to them to be allowed to remain (we would have a far weaker union at best)
Besides loosing even more control
We Will Be Far Stronger Out Than remaining In A corrupt & Failing System it will take time but will be worth it.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Or will it be thwarted? "
I find it chilling the belief the remainers have that somehow Brexit was a victory for the forces of evil, as opposed to a victory for democracy.
Jumping up and down screaming and throwing a tantrum because you didn't get your way isn't the mark of a civilised and moderate society. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It can be stopped at any time, simply due to the nature of it being an advisory referendum. It hold no legal ramifications for the government to carry it out, as such they can simply say "thans for your opinion, but such a move is currently untenable"
We have not left the the eu!!
It is only irreversible once article 50 is signed, until then the referendum was nothing more than the government poling the opinion of the people.
And once again, as im now sick of people on both side calling eachother thick or uneducated.
WE HAVE NOT LEFT THE EU!!
Ps: as its also been asked alot (ironicaly by the apparent highly educated in voters) we cant leave europe, its a bloody continent and moving a land mass isnt simple. The EU is not europe."
 |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It can be stopped at any time, simply due to the nature of it being an advisory referendum. It hold no legal ramifications for the government to carry it out, as such they can simply say "thans for your opinion, but such a move is currently untenable"
We have not left the the eu!!
It is only irreversible once article 50 is signed, until then the referendum was nothing more than the government poling the opinion of the people.
And once again, as im now sick of people on both side calling eachother thick or uneducated.
WE HAVE NOT LEFT THE EU!!
Ps: as its also been asked alot (ironicaly by the apparent highly educated in voters) we cant leave europe, its a bloody continent and moving a land mass isnt simple. The EU is not europe."
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By *mojeeCouple
over a year ago
Dunfermline |
Unfortunately everyone has suddenly become an expert on the matter. All I know is we haven't heard the last of it. My own personal view is that some sort of deal will be put in place and we will be offered another vote and it will be a large margin win for the stay campaign. There will be some legal wrangling over it all and it will drag on for years. I don't care how each and every one of you voted as that was your choice and so for people to be arguing and falling out over it is not good. |
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"there is a very slim chance that article 50 will not be invoked but i think this is highly unlikley.
a majority of the population voted against us remaining in the EU
(would you want to be the political party that went against the People. look whats happened elsewhere when they have tried)
The EU Members have already decided that they Want Us out the sooner the better so do you really think it would be a wise idea to try groveling to them to be allowed to remain (we would have a far weaker union at best)
Besides loosing even more control
We Will Be Far Stronger Out Than remaining In A corrupt & Failing System it will take time but will be worth it.
"
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are you asking if it is a done deal or are you asking if the deal will be done?
if it's the former then no it's not ..... if it's the later then this game of who will blink first betwixt the two warring factions of the right wing politicos has to come to a conclusion before it even remains to be seen what wil transpire |
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By *razedcatMan
over a year ago
London / Herts |
It's certainly not a done deal, as the referendum was an advisory one - although it will take something quite cataclysmic to reverse it. Riots, perhaps.
And whilst I certainly believe Brexit was a victory for democracy, it was a defeat for political transparency. Now that we're leaving, Mr. Farage has already withdrawn one of the Leave campaigns most compelling arguments, and the Leave figureheads don't seem to have a plan as to how we should move forward.
The rise in racist incidents is also extremely worrying. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I dont think they can stop it. They terms are still to be decided and two years should be enough time to negotiate that properly "
oh it can be stopped the vote is advisory only the parliament doesn't have to follow the voters wishes
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By *ty31Man
over a year ago
NW London |
I don't think we will ever see a full Brexit. To preserve trade and good relations there will be concessions to the EU such as easier border crossings for EU citizens and a continued financial contribution (albeit at a reduced rate).
I don't think Brexit will change a great deal in the long run. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I don't think we will ever see a full Brexit. To preserve trade and good relations there will be concessions to the EU such as easier border crossings for EU citizens and a continued financial contribution (albeit at a reduced rate).
I don't think Brexit will change a great deal in the long run."
plus I think we would still have free movement of people too |
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"Without turning this into a slanging match.....
Will Brexit actually go through? Or will it be thwarted? "
As a Remain voter, I believe that it's the wrong choice. As a supporter of democracy, the nation has decided and I will be furious if the democratic process is now devalued.
Cal |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The trouble is that nobody really know what Brexit means - there are thousands of different expectations.
Many people will be left disappointed, and that's storing trouble for the future. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"...
Ps: as its also been asked alot (ironicaly by the apparent highly educated in voters) we cant leave europe, its a bloody continent and moving a land mass isnt simple. The EU is not europe."
Shame though... If only we could pull the anchor up and float away somewhere sunnier.   
Let's start a vote on where we want to float off to.  |
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"Nice to see the remainers still clutching at straws after 4 days !!!!!"
It's a non binding vote of which less than 40% of the electorate think this is possible without damaging the UK's key interests. Parliament will now decide the best approach for our economy. Brexit team are already spinning on migration |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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There are a great many examples of previous EU related referenda where the public voted 'the wrong way' (as far as the EU powers that be were concerned) so they were either ignored or asked to vote again. Ignoring a referendum is far from being without precedent.
That said, I - as a Remain voter - agree that ignoring this one would be both democratically dishonest and politically suicidal for whoever did so, and I highly doubt that would happen. Nor would I want to see it happen.
There is only one case where I can see an argument could be made for ignoring it, if the following occurred:
- One of the two Tory MPs who end up being voted for by the Tory party membership stands on the premise that they categorically will not invoke Article 50.
- They then win the leadership and claim they have a mandate from their party *not* to bring the UK out of the EU, AND they then instigate a General Election where they again stand on that platform and win.
Only then do I think they could argue that they have a democratic mandate not to leave the EU that trumps the mandate given by this referendum. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Just to add to that, I think one of the reasons the EU is seen as so undemocratic is because of those times when it has ignored previous referendum results. Ignoring this one is hardly going to alleviate those views. |
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Article 50 requires the country invoking it to have a legal mandate to use it.
As things stand, our government DO NOT have a mandate to use Article 50-we've merely got a result of a referendum.
This means the House of Commons will have to have a vote on whether to leave the EU & pass a bill in Parliament. This means all MPs entitled to vote must be in a majority…ALL MPs…including the Scots, Welsh & N. Irish & independents.
The bill will then have to be approved by the House of Lords & the Queen.
All this MUST happen before Article 50 can be bilaterally binding on the UK & the raining countries in the EU.
Its only a small point... |
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"It can be stopped at any time, simply due to the nature of it being an advisory referendum. It hold no legal ramifications for the government to carry it out, as such they can simply say "thans for your opinion, but such a move is currently untenable"
We have not left the the eu!!
It is only irreversible once article 50 is signed, until then the referendum was nothing more than the government poling the opinion of the people.
And once again, as im now sick of people on both side calling eachother thick or uneducated.
WE HAVE NOT LEFT THE EU!!
Ps: as its also been asked alot (ironicaly by the apparent highly educated in voters) we cant leave europe, its a bloody continent and moving a land mass isnt simple. The EU is not europe.0343 222 1234"
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I think you confuse the ability to execute Article 50 and the bills required to remove EU Laws from the UK Statute Book.
As Cameron is still legally the Prime Minister he can write a letter today advising the EU that we wish to leave the EU. Article 50 satisfied and the clock starts ticking.
People forget there are two procedures. The 'Article 50 Exit' is just the divorce proceedings. Agreeing on terms for current migrants and other relatively minor matters. That can actually happen quickly. The elephant in the room is the subsequent Trade Agreement the UK establishes with the EU. THAT could be very interesting but given they need us more than we need them (and their influence is declining and will plunge after we leave) the negotiating aces are in our hand. I think the fact that the EU want a quick execution of Article 50 shows they feel they need to pressurise us while we are sorting ourselves out.
Take our time and play our game not theirs. After all we have waited 40 years for the freedom to HAVE our own hand to play.... |
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I think there's a real chance article 50 will not be invoked. Boris chose leave as a political gambit, he believed it would be a slim win for remain, which would destabilise Cameron and Osborne clearing the way for him to take over, but not having to leave. The vote has come out Leave, and Cameron has simply gone "it's your dog that's shit on the rug, you deal with it" there will be at least 5 months before he can invoke 50,by which time public opinion may well have changed as more people realise the implications of an actual exit coupled with the exposure of the leave lies reduces support for actually pulling the trigger. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I think you confuse the ability to execute Article 50 and the bills required to remove EU Laws from the UK Statute Book.
As Cameron is still legally the Prime Minister he can write a letter today advising the EU that we wish to leave the EU. Article 50 satisfied and the clock starts ticking.
People forget there are two procedures. The 'Article 50 Exit' is just the divorce proceedings. Agreeing on terms for current migrants and other relatively minor matters. That can actually happen quickly. The elephant in the room is the subsequent Trade Agreement the UK establishes with the EU. THAT could be very interesting but given they need us more than we need them (and their influence is declining and will plunge after we leave) the negotiating aces are in our hand. I think the fact that the EU want a quick execution of Article 50 shows they feel they need to pressurise us while we are sorting ourselves out.
Take our time and play our game not theirs. After all we have waited 40 years for the freedom to HAVE our own hand to play...."
so let me get this right ..you want to take your time and piss off the same people that you then have to go and ask for a good deal? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Cameron said thruought his campaign that if a leave vote won he wud trigger article 50 the following day but he hasn't why ? cos he knows full well hes handing his successor a poisoned challis that only a silly person would invoke
hence boris and co quickly changing their stance on brexit
mr Cameron has been a very shrewd man indeed |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It can be stopped at any time, simply due to the nature of it being an advisory referendum. It hold no legal ramifications for the government to carry it out, as such they can simply say "thans for your opinion, but such a move is currently untenable"
We have not left the the eu!!
It is only irreversible once article 50 is signed, until then the referendum was nothing more than the government poling the opinion of the people.
And once again, as im now sick of people on both side calling eachother thick or uneducated.
WE HAVE NOT LEFT THE EU!!
Ps: as its also been asked alot (ironicaly by the apparent highly educated in voters) we cant leave europe, its a bloody continent and moving a land mass isnt simple. The EU is not europe.0343 222 1234 "
The ghost telephone number strikes again  |
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Well, you can always wait 5 years and vote again. All the demographic splits that I have seen say that will tip the balance.
Or educate the population and ask them again.
Or (ironically) move people from areas where they are net beneficiaries of the EU to those areas that pay in more than they get out and ask again.
My suspicion is the the EU will tell us to fuck off. Own bed. Lie in it. And be really punitive with the trade deal negotiation, pour encourager les
autres. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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" Take our time and play our game not theirs. After all we have waited 40 years for the freedom to HAVE our own hand to play...."
so let me get this right ..you want to take your time and piss off the same people that you then have to go and ask for a good deal? "
You have clearly not negotiated too many big deals. We are not here to please the EU. As Cameron said today in the House: We are now embarked on looking after our own interests and we should accept the EU will equally look after theirs.
Negotiating with a purpose and knowledge is better than rushing in and boxing ourselves into a corner. And after all we are only talking a matter of months. We have 40 years of shit to unravel here ...
I was pleased to see Cameron has already set up an 'EU Unit' reporting to No 10 to work their way through the best options and the ramifications of our negotiations which includes a wide range of specialists in trade, the EU and International law.
We may have a new PM by September 2nd. he / she will have 2 months of research advising him and he / she will decide when to trigger Article 50. It is OUR call not the EU's... |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"
Take our time and play our game not theirs. After all we have waited 40 years for the freedom to HAVE our own hand to play....
so let me get this right ..you want to take your time and piss off the same people that you then have to go and ask for a good deal?"
Yeah... Did notice that strategy wasn't really thought out
The longer you wait the worse deal you will get... And if there are no talks till you push the button then no one else is going to deal with you till there's a timescale |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
Take our time and play our game not theirs. After all we have waited 40 years for the freedom to HAVE our own hand to play....
so let me get this right ..you want to take your time and piss off the same people that you then have to go and ask for a good deal?
Yeah... Did notice that strategy wasn't really thought out
The longer you wait the worse deal you will get... And if there are no talks till you push the button then no one else is going to deal with you till there's a timescale "
Sorry Fabio you read it wrong again. Where we will be hammered is if we kick off Article 50 too soon before we are well prepared to negotiate because that hands the EU better bargaining power the longer it goes on because there is a time limit. We are playing this dead right. be prepared, Get the research right, trigger Article 50 in November and fight like the Dogs of War we are...
And whats to piss off? A set of countries that have been hit harder by the markets than we have? An EU with a currency in its death throes with Italian, Spanish and Greek banks skint? And we sit here giving them £61 Bn a year more in trade? Its us they don't want to piss off... |
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"It's certainly not a done deal, as the referendum was an advisory one - although it will take something quite cataclysmic to reverse it. Riots, perhaps.
And whilst I certainly believe Brexit was a victory for democracy, it was a defeat for political transparency. Now that we're leaving, Mr. Farage has already withdrawn one of the Leave campaigns most compelling arguments, and the Leave figureheads don't seem to have a plan as to how we should move forward.
The rise in racist incidents is also extremely worrying. "
How many times do we have to say Farage is not part of the official leave campaign so nothing he says is actually worth listening to |
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Probably though not sure when and it'll so far removed from what the majority of leave voters thought they were voting for it will only serve to cost a lot of money in doing so..
Given what the Brexit leaders are now saying, it will not be that far removed from where we are now..
The result will be yet more people who engaged with this vote feeling that they were lied to and that's not good for democracy .. |
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"Probably though not sure when and it'll so far removed from what the majority of leave voters thought they were voting for it will only serve to cost a lot of money in doing so..
Given what the Brexit leaders are now saying, it will not be that far removed from where we are now..
The result will be yet more people who engaged with this vote feeling that they were lied to and that's not good for democracy .."
Cameron has said it's up to a new government if they join the EEA.
But that includes so much of what the Brexiters don't want so I don't know who's mooting that point. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Nice to see the remainers still clutching at straws after 4 days !!!!!
"
and don't think for one minute you will all move up to Scotland in hope of remaining in EU, the build of the wall ha started  |
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"Probably though not sure when and it'll so far removed from what the majority of leave voters thought they were voting for it will only serve to cost a lot of money in doing so..
Given what the Brexit leaders are now saying, it will not be that far removed from where we are now..
The result will be yet more people who engaged with this vote feeling that they were lied to and that's not good for democracy ..
Cameron has said it's up to a new government if they join the EEA.
But that includes so much of what the Brexiters don't want so I don't know who's mooting that point. "
Not sure they wanted the free movement but without that there is no single market..
Like to see anyone of the Brexit leaders sell that one to some of the areas that came in at 70 percent plus..
The only way is if it comes with further reforms but that will depend in Merkel wants it |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I think Leave have an issue in that their plan, when they have it, will not resemble the arguments made during their campaign. On the £350million a week for the nhs almost every key Leave campaigner has now admitted that this number is incorrect. In reality we pay much less and its effectively the amount we pay in return for free trade, just a tariff in another format. So it's likely the EU will look to negotiate a similar fee for us to be in the Free market. But tricky to sell to the electorate as it means no extra money for the nhs.
On immigration it seems we were not voting to reduce it, just gain better control. Look at the office of national statistics website. Lots of data on immigration. Less than half of the immigrants come from the EU, the rest already need to get a visa to work here. So we have controls over half the immigration but still the rules allow them to work here. These people are from the new markets we wish to trade more with, so we'd need to be careful not to upset them too much. Migration is also a net figure, you need to factor in the numbers leaving the uk. Quite large numbers of us head off to Europe for work, and we'd not want to stop that arrangement. Or maybe we would, I can't speak for everyone. So in reality immigration may not come down, as the free access to the EU market has never been offered without free movement.
So whilst on those two points there's a potential for the electorate to be a little disappointed with the actual plan, voting on something without any sight of the plan is always prone to risk, and we will just have to hope for the best. But democracy has been served and the expectation is that we will eventually take back control and leave the EU. We will likely pay the same amounts and keep the freedom of movement but not have a seat at the table in Brussels when deciding the future of the EU and discussing key decisions. But we will have full control of our destiny and the 10% of Eu decisions that didn't go out way will no longer bother us
Personally I can't wait to see the plan. Not long now, I'm sure I will be proved wrong and my perspective will be completely incorrect. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Probably though not sure when and it'll so far removed from what the majority of leave voters thought they were voting for it will only serve to cost a lot of money in doing so..
Given what the Brexit leaders are now saying, it will not be that far removed from where we are now..
The result will be yet more people who engaged with this vote feeling that they were lied to and that's not good for democracy ..
Cameron has said it's up to a new government if they join the EEA.
But that includes so much of what the Brexiters don't want so I don't know who's mooting that point.
Not sure they wanted the free movement but without that there is no single market..
Like to see anyone of the Brexit leaders sell that one to some of the areas that came in at 70 percent plus..
The only way is if it comes with further reforms but that will depend in Merkel wants it"
.
Unfortunately or fortunately depending on your side of the fence, there will be some sort of deal in the EU, an awful lot of people didn't want to be out of the EU and some kind of concession will be made for them, that's how democracies and societies work, with give and take.
Obviously the people who voted out will get the lion's share of what they were looking for, I would imagine the deal on free movement will come with some concession from the EU side as well, there'll be the usual political double talk of its something new for both sides to save face but in reality... Just as I said all along, not a lot will actually change |
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Boris and co are already back peddling;
The reality, on leaving, is that we will almost certainly end up with a "Norway" type arrangement.
Which is, in fact, no different to the status quo except that we would pay a slightly lower fee, and have no representation.
Hence why Boris is at pains to explain that "actually not much will change ", in order to give himself wriggle room to say " well actually it's not worth bothering to leave at all".
It is also possible ( slim chance) that there will be a general election. What happens if a party campains on a remain/ rejoin platform and wins?
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Boris and co are already back peddling;
The reality, on leaving, is that we will almost certainly end up with a "Norway" type arrangement.
Which is, in fact, no different to the status quo except that we would pay a slightly lower fee, and have no representation.
Hence why Boris is at pains to explain that "actually not much will change ", in order to give himself wriggle room to say " well actually it's not worth bothering to leave at all".
It is also possible ( slim chance) that there will be a general election. What happens if a party campains on a remain/ rejoin platform and wins?
"
.
Politics and politicans are already reaping they're rewards for decades of talking bollocks and lying.... if they don't actually leave the EU, we might as well not bother with the general election or any manifesto pledges!.
It will be a leave, they don't want to but it will be but as I said above, it will be a technically we've left |
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"Probably though not sure when and it'll so far removed from what the majority of leave voters thought they were voting for it will only serve to cost a lot of money in doing so..
Given what the Brexit leaders are now saying, it will not be that far removed from where we are now..
The result will be yet more people who engaged with this vote feeling that they were lied to and that's not good for democracy ..
Cameron has said it's up to a new government if they join the EEA.
But that includes so much of what the Brexiters don't want so I don't know who's mooting that point.
Not sure they wanted the free movement but without that there is no single market..
Like to see anyone of the Brexit leaders sell that one to some of the areas that came in at 70 percent plus..
The only way is if it comes with further reforms but that will depend in Merkel wants it.
Unfortunately or fortunately depending on your side of the fence, there will be some sort of deal in the EU, an awful lot of people didn't want to be out of the EU and some kind of concession will be made for them, that's how democracies and societies work, with give and take.
Obviously the people who voted out will get the lion's share of what they were looking for, I would imagine the deal on free movement will come with some concession from the EU side as well, there'll be the usual political double talk of its something new for both sides to save face but in reality... Just as I said all along, not a lot will actually change"
The short term effects with the rise in racism and that some who were disenfranchised from the democratic system before this vote and post any deal will only lead to some of the same people totally disengaging from any future elections etc.. |
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"It can be stopped at any time, simply due to the nature of it being an advisory referendum. It hold no legal ramifications for the government to carry it out, as such they can simply say "thans for your opinion, but such a move is currently untenable"
We have not left the the eu!!
It is only irreversible once article 50 is signed, until then the referendum was nothing more than the government poling the opinion of the people.
And once again, as im now sick of people on both side calling eachother thick or uneducated.
WE HAVE NOT LEFT THE EU!!
Ps: as its also been asked alot (ironicaly by the apparent highly educated in voters) we cant leave europe, its a bloody continent and moving a land mass isnt simple. The EU is not europe."
Yes this is correct until the Article 50 is signed negotiations on us leaving the EU can change, thankfully we still have this safety blanket otherwise we would be in shit.
It depends on the leave campaign giving the people what it has promised which in reality will be as good as pissing in the wind. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Well, you can always wait 5 years and vote again. All the demographic splits that I have seen say that will tip the balance.
Or educate the population and ask them again.
Or (ironically) move people from areas where they are net beneficiaries of the EU to those areas that pay in more than they get out and ask again.
My suspicion is the the EU will tell us to fuck off. Own bed. Lie in it. And be really punitive with the trade deal negotiation, pour encourager les
autres."
Hardly
Last time the germans stood against us dresden burnt
I doubt theyd be overeager to rouse our wrath again |
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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago
Somewhere in North Norfolk |
"It can be stopped at any time, simply due to the nature of it being an advisory referendum. It hold no legal ramifications for the government to carry it out, as such they can simply say "thans for your opinion, but such a move is currently untenable"
We have not left the the eu!!
It is only irreversible once article 50 is signed, until then the referendum was nothing more than the government poling the opinion of the people.
And once again, as im now sick of people on both side calling eachother thick or uneducated.
WE HAVE NOT LEFT THE EU!!
Ps: as its also been asked alot (ironicaly by the apparent highly educated in voters) we cant leave europe, its a bloody continent and moving a land mass isnt simple. The EU is not europe.
Yes this is correct until the Article 50 is signed negotiations on us leaving the EU can change, thankfully we still have this safety blanket otherwise we would be in shit.
It depends on the leave campaign giving the people what it has promised which in reality will be as good as pissing in the wind."
The EU have said they will not negotiate with us formally or informally until Article 50 is invoked.
They're not willing to let us prat about. |
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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago
Somewhere in North Norfolk |
"Well, you can always wait 5 years and vote again. All the demographic splits that I have seen say that will tip the balance.
Or educate the population and ask them again.
Or (ironically) move people from areas where they are net beneficiaries of the EU to those areas that pay in more than they get out and ask again.
My suspicion is the the EU will tell us to fuck off. Own bed. Lie in it. And be really punitive with the trade deal negotiation, pour encourager les
autres.
Hardly
Last time the germans stood against us dresden burnt
I doubt theyd be overeager to rouse our wrath again"
Are you serious?! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Well, you can always wait 5 years and vote again. All the demographic splits that I have seen say that will tip the balance.
Or educate the population and ask them again.
Or (ironically) move people from areas where they are net beneficiaries of the EU to those areas that pay in more than they get out and ask again.
My suspicion is the the EU will tell us to fuck off. Own bed. Lie in it. And be really punitive with the trade deal negotiation, pour encourager les
autres.
Hardly
Last time the germans stood against us dresden burnt
I doubt theyd be overeager to rouse our wrath again"
Angela Merkel is already stirring the shit, and Jean Claud Juncker is backing her up like a little lap dog |
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On the 17th April next year when Fab and every other adult site is forcibly blocked as well as most political news by the new digital act you can sit back relax and think yes its great living in a free country.
Thousands of jobs have been lossed by the exit so the government has now got to deliver its promises to convince those effected their actions are a just one. |
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"Well, you can always wait 5 years and vote again. All the demographic splits that I have seen say that will tip the balance.
Or educate the population and ask them again.
Or (ironically) move people from areas where they are net beneficiaries of the EU to those areas that pay in more than they get out and ask again.
My suspicion is the the EU will tell us to fuck off. Own bed. Lie in it. And be really punitive with the trade deal negotiation, pour encourager les
autres.
Hardly
Last time the germans stood against us dresden burnt
I doubt theyd be overeager to rouse our wrath again"
WTF! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Probably though not sure when and it'll so far removed from what the majority of leave voters thought they were voting for it will only serve to cost a lot of money in doing so..
Given what the Brexit leaders are now saying, it will not be that far removed from where we are now..
The result will be yet more people who engaged with this vote feeling that they were lied to and that's not good for democracy ..
Cameron has said it's up to a new government if they join the EEA.
But that includes so much of what the Brexiters don't want so I don't know who's mooting that point.
Not sure they wanted the free movement but without that there is no single market..
Like to see anyone of the Brexit leaders sell that one to some of the areas that came in at 70 percent plus..
The only way is if it comes with further reforms but that will depend in Merkel wants it.
Unfortunately or fortunately depending on your side of the fence, there will be some sort of deal in the EU, an awful lot of people didn't want to be out of the EU and some kind of concession will be made for them, that's how democracies and societies work, with give and take.
Obviously the people who voted out will get the lion's share of what they were looking for, I would imagine the deal on free movement will come with some concession from the EU side as well, there'll be the usual political double talk of its something new for both sides to save face but in reality... Just as I said all along, not a lot will actually change
The short term effects with the rise in racism and that some who were disenfranchised from the democratic system before this vote and post any deal will only lead to some of the same people totally disengaging from any future elections etc.."
.
You have to engage with people you don't like sometimes to progress,i mean we sat for years telling people in n/Ireland to talk to the other side(they hated each other with a passion)... Sometimes you have to put aside your differences, that doesn't mean you have to tolerate illegal behaviour or even make concessions, just stop screaming at each other!.
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"It can be stopped at any time, simply due to the nature of it being an advisory referendum. It hold no legal ramifications for the government to carry it out, as such they can simply say "thans for your opinion, but such a move is currently untenable"
We have not left the the eu!!
It is only irreversible once article 50 is signed, until then the referendum was nothing more than the government poling the opinion of the people.
And once again, as im now sick of people on both side calling eachother thick or uneducated.
WE HAVE NOT LEFT THE EU!!
Ps: as its also been asked alot (ironicaly by the apparent highly educated in voters) we cant leave europe, its a bloody continent and moving a land mass isnt simple. The EU is not europe.
Yes this is correct until the Article 50 is signed negotiations on us leaving the EU can change, thankfully we still have this safety blanket otherwise we would be in shit.
It depends on the leave campaign giving the people what it has promised which in reality will be as good as pissing in the wind."
|
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"Probably though not sure when and it'll so far removed from what the majority of leave voters thought they were voting for it will only serve to cost a lot of money in doing so..
Given what the Brexit leaders are now saying, it will not be that far removed from where we are now..
The result will be yet more people who engaged with this vote feeling that they were lied to and that's not good for democracy ..
Cameron has said it's up to a new government if they join the EEA.
But that includes so much of what the Brexiters don't want so I don't know who's mooting that point.
Not sure they wanted the free movement but without that there is no single market..
Like to see anyone of the Brexit leaders sell that one to some of the areas that came in at 70 percent plus..
The only way is if it comes with further reforms but that will depend in Merkel wants it.
Unfortunately or fortunately depending on your side of the fence, there will be some sort of deal in the EU, an awful lot of people didn't want to be out of the EU and some kind of concession will be made for them, that's how democracies and societies work, with give and take.
Obviously the people who voted out will get the lion's share of what they were looking for, I would imagine the deal on free movement will come with some concession from the EU side as well, there'll be the usual political double talk of its something new for both sides to save face but in reality... Just as I said all along, not a lot will actually change
The short term effects with the rise in racism and that some who were disenfranchised from the democratic system before this vote and post any deal will only lead to some of the same people totally disengaging from any future elections etc...
You have to engage with people you don't like sometimes to progress,i mean we sat for years telling people in n/Ireland to talk to the other side(they hated each other with a passion)... Sometimes you have to put aside your differences, that doesn't mean you have to tolerate illegal behaviour or even make concessions, just stop screaming at each other!.
"
True, used to chair a joint management and union committee and I never tolerated any hissy fits from my or their side |
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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago
Somewhere in North Norfolk |
"On the 17th April next year when Fab and every other adult site is forcibly blocked as well as most political news by the new digital act you can sit back relax and think yes its great living in a free country.
"
I'll believe it when I see it. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I dont think they will go through with it and neither will they trigger article 50, we will still be in eu, years to come, good news.
The latest news: David Cameron: We won't trigger Article 50 now |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"It can be stopped at any time, simply due to the nature of it being an advisory referendum. It hold no legal ramifications for the government to carry it out, as such they can simply say "thans for your opinion, but such a move is currently untenable"
We have not left the the eu!!
It is only irreversible once article 50 is signed, until then the referendum was nothing more than the government poling the opinion of the people.
And once again, as im now sick of people on both side calling eachother thick or uneducated.
WE HAVE NOT LEFT THE EU!!
Ps: as its also been asked alot (ironicaly by the apparent highly educated in voters) we cant leave europe, its a bloody continent and moving a land mass isnt simple. The EU is not europe."
This
I appreciate somebody actually informing both sides of the debate it is an advisory referendum.
Basically if whoever is actually cobbled together to negotiate and navigate leaving the EU can't get us a favourable trade negotiation withe EU and at the same time begin working on our external trade links, there is a good chance we wont leave.
That said, I cannot see any politician wanting to take the flack from anyone, about how 'ignoring' the results of an advisory referendum would be a 'failing of democracy.' So even if it;'s obvious it'll be more than a 2 year uphill slog for us I reckon leaving will still get pushed through. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"food shopping is said to rise soon in the supermarkets due to the brexit drop in sterling looks like "NO FRILLS" products for me then
 "
Oops its on its way up again |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Well, you can always wait 5 years and vote again. All the demographic splits that I have seen say that will tip the balance.
Or educate the population and ask them again.
Or (ironically) move people from areas where they are net beneficiaries of the EU to those areas that pay in more than they get out and ask again.
My suspicion is the the EU will tell us to fuck off. Own bed. Lie in it. And be really punitive with the trade deal negotiation, pour encourager les
autres.
Hardly
Last time the germans stood against us dresden burnt
I doubt theyd be overeager to rouse our wrath again
Angela Merkel is already stirring the shit, and Jean Claud Juncker is backing her up like a little lap dog"
Really? Bit bias and I thought it was the other way, remember Merkel has to balance the interest of Germany with that of the EU, Junker is the top dog in pissing everyone off right now. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I dont think they will go through with it and neither will they trigger article 50, we will still be in eu, years to come, good news.
The latest news: David Cameron: We won't trigger Article 50 now "
He actually said 'he' won't trigger it as it was for the new leader and those involved in the negotiations to trigger it. MERKEL said no prenegotiations until it's triggered. That what I understood. |
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"On the 17th April next year when Fab and every other adult site is forcibly blocked as well as most political news by the new digital act you can sit back relax and think yes its great living in a free country.
I'll believe it when I see it."
Its already been passed look up Sex and Censorship on google, only Europe protected us against living in a police state, i got wind of this two years ago and shifted my sites to the States to avoid it.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Well, you can always wait 5 years and vote again. All the demographic splits that I have seen say that will tip the balance.
Or educate the population and ask them again.
Or (ironically) move people from areas where they are net beneficiaries of the EU to those areas that pay in more than they get out and ask again.
My suspicion is the the EU will tell us to fuck off. Own bed. Lie in it. And be really punitive with the trade deal negotiation, pour encourager les
autres.
Hardly
Last time the germans stood against us dresden burnt
I doubt theyd be overeager to rouse our wrath again
Angela Merkel is already stirring the shit, and Jean Claud Juncker is backing her up like a little lap dog
Really? Bit bias and I thought it was the other way, remember Merkel has to balance the interest of Germany with that of the EU, Junker is the top dog in pissing everyone off right now."
The EU is in a shite place right now with Brexit triggering a possible collapse in the Italian banks...their economy is nearly on the brink.... If they exit...Itll start a rush....If Germany try to bail it'll put huge financial pressures on the rest ofthe EU members to cough up more...the rest of Asia is looking closely and may start trade restrictions.
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Well, you can always wait 5 years and vote again. All the demographic splits that I have seen say that will tip the balance.
Or educate the population and ask them again.
Or (ironically) move people from areas where they are net beneficiaries of the EU to those areas that pay in more than they get out and ask again.
My suspicion is the the EU will tell us to fuck off. Own bed. Lie in it. And be really punitive with the trade deal negotiation, pour encourager les
autres.
Hardly
Last time the germans stood against us dresden burnt
I doubt theyd be overeager to rouse our wrath again
Angela Merkel is already stirring the shit, and Jean Claud Juncker is backing her up like a little lap dog
Really? Bit bias and I thought it was the other way, remember Merkel has to balance the interest of Germany with that of the EU, Junker is the top dog in pissing everyone off right now."
Apologies; I was only watching her live interview on sky tv and then a live interview with Jean Claud Juncker after her, you must be right, sky must have dubbed their words in translation
 |
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"
Hardly
Last time the germans stood against us dresden burnt
I doubt theyd be overeager to rouse our wrath again"
Hi Zipoo,
I have been told I need to try and understand the Leaver's point of view as they aren't really short tempered violent xenophobes. With that in mind can you explain your comment to me?
Regards
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Ok. Let's open it out a bit.
What did you think was meant by leaving the EU? How do you see our relationship with the EU going forward?
"
I'll keep it simple.... little will change as far as communication and meetings and negotiations. It's the leverage and content that will change. The obligatiobs will change...All this because we'll have more choice. Before it was... 'ok, but how much , how long etc etc'... no we can add no thank you to our retoric. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
Hardly
Last time the germans stood against us dresden burnt
I doubt theyd be overeager to rouse our wrath again
Hi Zipoo,
I have been told I need to try and understand the Leaver's point of view as they aren't really short tempered violent xenophobes. With that in mind can you explain your comment to me?
Regards
"
Dont think I'll reply to that as It sounds like you're trying to incite what you seem to accuse Brexiters of tbh. The leavers seem to do it just as much if nor more but in a different way. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Ok. Let's open it out a bit.
What did you think was meant by leaving the EU? How do you see our relationship with the EU going forward?
"
its becoming very clear that the leave voters will be sold far far short of what they were actually voting for, a true full brexit ? looks everymore doubtful in my opinion |
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"Ok. Let's open it out a bit.
What did you think was meant by leaving the EU? How do you see our relationship with the EU going forward?
"
Most Europeans are shocked upset & angry by our departure so it will take a lot of grovelling to get back in their good books, business wise we have destroyed ourselves & again years of negotiations to get back to where we are now before we leave.
In the months that follow with the falling pound & rising interest rates we can at least blame ourselves and not the government for the mess we are in.
The forums will be an interesting place over the next few months as i wonder how many will backtrack from their leave decision when the recession hits even harder than before. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I dont think they will go through with it and neither will they trigger article 50, we will still be in eu, years to come, good news.
The latest news: David Cameron: We won't trigger Article 50 now
He actually said 'he' won't trigger it as it was for the new leader and those involved in the negotiations to trigger it. MERKEL said no prenegotiations until it's triggered. That what I understood."
Same here. I didnt get it either what merkel meant but, yes, think david said it is up to the new pm when and if they would trigger it. |
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By *angrasanCouple
over a year ago
Manchester |
I feel Brexit will go through but listening to the rest of the EU, this morning, it will be like a messy divorce with point scoring and bickering from all involved which will probably go on for a couple of years until things settle down. |
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"Ok. Let's open it out a bit.
What did you think was meant by leaving the EU? How do you see our relationship with the EU going forward?
Most Europeans are shocked upset & angry by our departure so it will take a lot of grovelling to get back in their good books, business wise we have destroyed ourselves & again years of negotiations to get back to where we are now before we leave.
In the months that follow with the falling pound & rising interest rates we can at least blame ourselves and not the government for the mess we are in.
The forums will be an interesting place over the next few months as i wonder how many will backtrack from their leave decision when the recession hits even harder than before."
The blame narrative is already being spun by some on here that it's either Cameron's fault for not implementing article 50 straigt away or its that anyone who mentions the lack of a cohesive plan from Boris and co is a none patriotic whinger..
Spin and deflection
Smoke and mirrors |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Well, you can always wait 5 years and vote again. All the demographic splits that I have seen say that will tip the balance.
Or educate the population and ask them again.
Or (ironically) move people from areas where they are net beneficiaries of the EU to those areas that pay in more than they get out and ask again.
My suspicion is the the EU will tell us to fuck off. Own bed. Lie in it. And be really punitive with the trade deal negotiation, pour encourager les
autres.
Hardly
Last time the germans stood against us dresden burnt
I doubt theyd be overeager to rouse our wrath again
Angela Merkel is already stirring the shit, and Jean Claud Juncker is backing her up like a little lap dog
Really? Bit bias and I thought it was the other way, remember Merkel has to balance the interest of Germany with that of the EU, Junker is the top dog in pissing everyone off right now.
Apologies; I was only watching her live interview on sky tv and then a live interview with Jean Claud Juncker after her, you must be right, sky must have dubbed their words in translation
"
Hahaha no worries
I actually don't mind Merkel - she's ha a political blunders but all politicians have.
As said, she's trying to respect the British popular vote and ensure we have a mutually beneficial trade and diplomatic relationship, but at the same point she has to be firm on behalf of German and EU interests. Realistically she is doing what a national leader whose nation is a big player in a Union of nations should be doing. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Ok. Let's open it out a bit.
What did you think was meant by leaving the EU? How do you see our relationship with the EU going forward?
Most Europeans are shocked upset & angry by our departure so it will take a lot of grovelling to get back in their good books, business wise we have destroyed ourselves & again years of negotiations to get back to where we are now before we leave.
In the months that follow with the falling pound & rising interest rates we can at least blame ourselves and not the government for the mess we are in.
The forums will be an interesting place over the next few months as i wonder how many will backtrack from their leave decision when the recession hits even harder than before."
So tell me this...why was the sterling so strong against most currencies? We're only a small nation yet our trade outside Europe was massive. I listened too so many stayers who kept saying recession...The sterling will sink...ok it's gone down...no one every denied it would...but why owly is it still stronger than the Euro even after this so called catastrophe. Get a grip stayers and stop try to continue to speak speculative rumours... The market shares have to fuck u ate all the time in order for those on it to make money. If it stayed stable all the time no one would buy...its like putting savings into a bank at 0% interest! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I dont think they will go through with it and neither will they trigger article 50, we will still be in eu, years to come, good news.
The latest news: David Cameron: We won't trigger Article 50 now
He actually said 'he' won't trigger it as it was for the new leader and those involved in the negotiations to trigger it. MERKEL said no prenegotiations until it's triggered. That what I understood.Same here. I didnt get it either what merkel meant but, yes, think david said it is up to the new pm when and if they would trigger it."
Basically National and EU leaders don't want pre-negotiations because that means Britain will be procrastinating getting on with them ' divorce' so to speak. The longer we draw it out the longer the Sterling and Euro markets are unstable. It's realistically in everyone's interest that we trigger article 50 so everyone, and the markets have a clear picture of what is going on as well as where we all stand.
As most EU leaders said, if we are leaving, that means we are leaving. That meant no twiddling of thumbs. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-36570120
He's got balls, I'll give him that - but there is a reason a lot of people in that room are laughing at him. I especially like the guy face palming behind him. |
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"Ok. Let's open it out a bit.
What did you think was meant by leaving the EU? How do you see our relationship with the EU going forward?
Most Europeans are shocked upset & angry by our departure so it will take a lot of grovelling to get back in their good books, business wise we have destroyed ourselves & again years of negotiations to get back to where we are now before we leave.
In the months that follow with the falling pound & rising interest rates we can at least blame ourselves and not the government for the mess we are in.
The forums will be an interesting place over the next few months as i wonder how many will backtrack from their leave decision when the recession hits even harder than before.
So tell me this...why was the sterling so strong against most currencies? We're only a small nation yet our trade outside Europe was massive. I listened too so many stayers who kept saying recession...The sterling will sink...ok it's gone down...no one every denied it would...but why owly is it still stronger than the Euro even after this so called catastrophe. Get a grip stayers and stop try to continue to speak speculative rumours... The market shares have to fuck u ate all the time in order for those on it to make money. If it stayed stable all the time no one would buy...its like putting savings into a bank at 0% interest!"
If its that strong why are UK credit cards being refused in Greece because of our unstable currency, other countries won't take long to get on the band wagon that our currency isn't worth accepting at the moment because of Brexit. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The worst part of all this is that most of the Remainers didn't know what they were voting for and the truth was witheld from them"
Please enlighten me and all the others? I think we knew what we voted for we got it...that Out and take back control. All of us knew there would be difficulties, renegotiations, chandeliers of government leadership, fall in markets, etc... so please tell us what we didn't know? We also knew how corrupt and resource draining the EU was and that our has were always tied.
I actually think its the 'Stayers' who didn't know, because they never expected that there were so many who actually took a very different view the the Status Quo. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The worst part of all this is that most of the Remainers didn't know what they were voting for and the truth was witheld from them
Please enlighten me and all the others? I think we knew what we voted for we got it...that Out and take back control. All of us knew there would be difficulties, renegotiations, chandeliers of government leadership, fall in markets, etc... so please tell us what we didn't know? We also knew how corrupt and resource draining the EU was and that our has were always tied.
I actually think its the 'Stayers' who didn't know, because they never expected that there were so many who actually took a very different view the the Status Quo. "
Read my post properly |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Ok. Let's open it out a bit.
What did you think was meant by leaving the EU? How do you see our relationship with the EU going forward?
Most Europeans are shocked upset & angry by our departure so it will take a lot of grovelling to get back in their good books, business wise we have destroyed ourselves & again years of negotiations to get back to where we are now before we leave.
In the months that follow with the falling pound & rising interest rates we can at least blame ourselves and not the government for the mess we are in.
The forums will be an interesting place over the next few months as i wonder how many will backtrack from their leave decision when the recession hits even harder than before.
So tell me this...why was the sterling so strong against most currencies? We're only a small nation yet our trade outside Europe was massive. I listened too so many stayers who kept saying recession...The sterling will sink...ok it's gone down...no one every denied it would...but why owly is it still stronger than the Euro even after this so called catastrophe. Get a grip stayers and stop try to continue to speak speculative rumours... The market shares have to fuck u ate all the time in order for those on it to make money. If it stayed stable all the time no one would buy...its like putting savings into a bank at 0% interest!
If its that strong why are UK credit cards being refused in Greece because of our unstable currency, other countries won't take long to get on the band wagon that our currency isn't worth accepting at the moment because of Brexit. "
Not read or heard of any cards being rejected unless they didn't have sufficient funds...and actually I find that a but far fetched considering the state of the Greek economy...even Mugabies money woull be accepted there. London is still the financial centre of the world and will continue to be so... ( that gives you a clue why the sterling is one of the strongest world currencies. ..and will rise back up slowly again...watch this space. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The worst part of all this is that most of the Remainers didn't know what they were voting for and the truth was witheld from them
Please enlighten me and all the others? I think we knew what we voted for we got it...that Out and take back control. All of us knew there would be difficulties, renegotiations, chandeliers of government leadership, fall in markets, etc... so please tell us what we didn't know? We also knew how corrupt and resource draining the EU was and that our has were always tied.
I actually think its the 'Stayers' who didn't know, because they never expected that there were so many who actually took a very different view the the Status Quo.
Read my post properly "
I did ...was agreeing but it did seem to come across at the end that I may have been at odds with you...It wasn't meant to lol... |
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"Well, you can always wait 5 years and vote again. All the demographic splits that I have seen say that will tip the balance.
Or educate the population and ask them again.
Or (ironically) move people from areas where they are net beneficiaries of the EU to those areas that pay in more than they get out and ask again.
My suspicion is the the EU will tell us to fuck off. Own bed. Lie in it. And be really punitive with the trade deal negotiation, pour encourager les
autres.
Hardly
Last time the germans stood against us dresden burnt
I doubt theyd be overeager to rouse our wrath again
Are you serious?! "
Yes absolutely. Let's get the bombers up and annihilate a few thousand germans and flatten some major cities. Serves them right for letting us have a vote!
Jesus Christ! |
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"The worst part of all this is that most of the Remainers didn't know what they were voting for and the truth was witheld from them
Please enlighten me and all the others? I think we knew what we voted for we got it...that Out and take back control. All of us knew there would be difficulties, renegotiations, chandeliers of government leadership, fall in markets, etc... so please tell us what we didn't know? We also knew how corrupt and resource draining the EU was and that our has were always tied.
I actually think its the 'Stayers' who didn't know, because they never expected that there were so many who actually took a very different view the the Status Quo. "
The EU are less corrupt than our government, a minister friend is writing a report at the moment on gold plating a term they use for our misuse of EU terms to suit the governments own needs.
We had all this rubbish about straight bananas & other foods that the EU were supposed to have implicated we eat, it was our own government adding far more onto the policies to suit their own needs hence the tern gold plating which will be heard a lot in the papers over the next few months.
Now the leave campaign have no one to blame what will they do when things don't turn out British and life goes on the same as it is now.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The worst part of all this is that most of the Remainers didn't know what they were voting for and the truth was witheld from them
Please enlighten me and all the others? I think we knew what we voted for we got it...that Out and take back control. All of us knew there would be difficulties, renegotiations, chandeliers of government leadership, fall in markets, etc... so please tell us what we didn't know? We also knew how corrupt and resource draining the EU was and that our has were always tied.
I actually think its the 'Stayers' who didn't know, because they never expected that there were so many who actually took a very different view the the Status Quo.
The EU are less corrupt than our government, a minister friend is writing a report at the moment on gold plating a term they use for our misuse of EU terms to suit the governments own needs.
We had all this rubbish about straight bananas & other foods that the EU were supposed to have implicated we eat, it was our own government adding far more onto the policies to suit their own needs hence the tern gold plating which will be heard a lot in the papers over the next few months.
Now the leave campaign have no one to blame what will they do when things don't turn out British and life goes on the same as it is now.
"
This argument shows our standards are high...but every government does exactly the same...suite their own needs...have you seen the scaffolding used in France Spain and Portugal? Few HS officers anywhere near the areas...they never even reached the EU minimum levels...who monitors? It's all self governance at the end of the day. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Without turning this into a slanging match.....
Will Brexit actually go through? Or will it be thwarted?
As a Remain voter, I believe that it's the wrong choice. As a supporter of democracy, the nation has decided and I will be furious if the democratic process is now devalued.
Cal"
Yes, was/am for remaining here too but our democracy has spoken. We must now leave and take whatever comes our way. |
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Believe it or not we had it good in the EU compared to other countries as we were the only ones to have 22 concessions that the others didn't have.
I wonder what we will do with all this vast wealth we have now supposedly saved, there should now be new hospitals going up every week with the money we are saving & building new homes jobs etc...
If you believe this then you were targeted right by the leave campaign as nothing will change except for the fact we have alienated our European allies. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"its a done & dusted deal, there will be no reverse
Unless it gets vetoed by the EU themselves, someone mentioned her majesty the queen could stop it as well."
How can the EU Vito it? How can they stop someone deciding to leave and cut losses? Greece could have done that but didn't and the EU could do nothing about it! The Queen won't get involved if the people voted out or in... she might if her elected government did something not in the best interests of the people and country and against their wishes. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Believe it or not we had it good in the EU compared to other countries as we were the only ones to have 22 concessions that the others didn't have.
I wonder what we will do with all this vast wealth we have now supposedly saved, there should now be new hospitals going up every week with the money we are saving & building new homes jobs etc...
If you believe this then you were targeted right by the leave campaign as nothing will change except for the fact we have alienated our European allies."
Sounds like you should leave then. you'll be better recieved in Europe |
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"The worst part of all this is that most of the Remainers didn't know what they were voting for and the truth was witheld from them
Please enlighten me and all the others? I think we knew what we voted for we got it...that Out and take back control. All of us knew there would be difficulties, renegotiations, chandeliers of government leadership, fall in markets, etc... so please tell us what we didn't know? We also knew how corrupt and resource draining the EU was and that our has were always tied.
I actually think its the 'Stayers' who didn't know, because they never expected that there were so many who actually took a very different view the the Status Quo.
The EU are less corrupt than our government, a minister friend is writing a report at the moment on gold plating a term they use for our misuse of EU terms to suit the governments own needs.
We had all this rubbish about straight bananas & other foods that the EU were supposed to have implicated we eat, it was our own government adding far more onto the policies to suit their own needs hence the tern gold plating which will be heard a lot in the papers over the next few months.
Now the leave campaign have no one to blame what will they do when things don't turn out British and life goes on the same as it is now.
This argument shows our standards are high...but every government does exactly the same...suite their own needs...have you seen the scaffolding used in France Spain and Portugal? Few HS officers anywhere near the areas...they never even reached the EU minimum levels...who monitors? It's all self governance at the end of the day."
Yes but governments lying to its people blaming the EU for everything that went wrong was wrong, at least that can't be the case now. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Without turning this into a slanging match.....
Will Brexit actually go through? Or will it be thwarted? "
as soon as this government invokes article 50 negotiations can begin until then we are in limbo but I understand that we well not have a say on anything that goes on in the eu from now on |
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"Believe it or not we had it good in the EU compared to other countries as we were the only ones to have 22 concessions that the others didn't have.
I wonder what we will do with all this vast wealth we have now supposedly saved, there should now be new hospitals going up every week with the money we are saving & building new homes jobs etc...
If you believe this then you were targeted right by the leave campaign as nothing will change except for the fact we have alienated our European allies.
Sounds like you should leave then. you'll be better recieved in Europe "
Sounds to me you are taking this personal mate but this seems the opinion of most who voted out, hope you get what you have wished for i really do lol |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Both sides fought a dirty campaign and always remember that another way of saying "statistics" is "lies, damn lies and more lies". 
There will be pain and euphoria over the next few months but it will only be over the next few years that the British people will gain the hindsight to say whether it was for the best . . time will tell.
The strong countries in the EU will push for an immediate start to the leaving process but there is talk on the news today that some UK politicians want to hold fire on that till the next General Election in 2020 . . now that is living in a fantasy world.
But don't expect any EU country to look at us too friendly for a long time, ours was in truth an advantageous membership of the "Club" and by saying "no thanks" the UK will have a hard struggle rebuilding bridges with our neighbours. 
. . and does anybody truly believe that Government/Parliament will honestly keep to "sound bite promises" as to how we are all going to not only see no change but even more money coming our way? No chance! The grubby, greedy mandarins in Whitehall will see that as a wonderful cash bonus to do so many other things with. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-36570120
He's got balls, I'll give him that - but there is a reason a lot of people in that room are laughing at him. I especially like the guy face palming behind him."
I have to say, Farage just comes across as an odious little man who has no regard for the UK. why would he try so hard to rile people we have to negotiate with?
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"Both sides fought a dirty campaign and always remember that another way of saying "statistics" is "lies, damn lies and more lies".
There will be pain and euphoria over the next few months but it will only be over the next few years that the British people will gain the hindsight to say whether it was for the best . . time will tell.
The strong countries in the EU will push for an immediate start to the leaving process but there is talk on the news today that some UK politicians want to hold fire on that till the next General Election in 2020 . . now that is living in a fantasy world.
But don't expect any EU country to look at us too friendly for a long time, ours was in truth an advantageous membership of the "Club" and by saying "no thanks" the UK will have a hard struggle rebuilding bridges with our neighbours.
. . and does anybody truly believe that Government/Parliament will honestly keep to "sound bite promises" as to how we are all going to not only see no change but even more money coming our way? No chance! The grubby, greedy mandarins in Whitehall will see that as a wonderful cash bonus to do so many other things with. "
Well put. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-36570120
He's got balls, I'll give him that - but there is a reason a lot of people in that room are laughing at him. I especially like the guy face palming behind him.
I have to say, Farage just comes across as an odious little man who has no regard for the UK. why would he try so hard to rile people we have to negotiate with?
"
perhaps he is venting after 16 years of EU ridicule, perhaps he is enjoying his karma
I never realised they had
twenty-two Members of the European Parliament, making it the largest UK party in the European Parliament. It has 488 councillors in UK local government and seven members in the National Assembly for Wales |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-36570120
He's got balls, I'll give him that - but there is a reason a lot of people in that room are laughing at him. I especially like the guy face palming behind him.
I have to say, Farage just comes across as an odious little man who has no regard for the UK. why would he try so hard to rile people we have to negotiate with?
"
It's ridiculous how he flat out insults every person in the room and then in the very next breath asks them to be kind in their future trade negotiations.
He's entertaining for sure, but not the kind of person that should have a position of responsibility. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Hardly
Last time the germans stood against us dresden burnt
I doubt theyd be overeager to rouse our wrath again"
Sadly that is the sort of banal comment that filled our screens during the last few weeks . . the politics of fear.
Now that the "party is over" we will start to see the TRUE facts and figures come out as politicians realise that now it's their heads on the block! |
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Here is the bottom line.
'I fuck pigs' Dave said before the referendum that if it was a Brexit vote he would remain PM, immediately invoke article 50 and conduct the out negotiations. Gideon said he have an immediate emergency budget if we voted out. They lied, just like he lied before the 2015 and 2010 elections.
There was and is no timescale attached to the referendum so don't hold your breath while waiting for the session from the union. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-36570120
He's got balls, I'll give him that - but there is a reason a lot of people in that room are laughing at him. I especially like the guy face palming behind him.
I have to say, Farage just comes across as an odious little man who has no regard for the UK. why would he try so hard to rile people we have to negotiate with?
perhaps he is venting after 16 years of EU ridicule, perhaps he is enjoying his karma
I never realised they had
twenty-two Members of the European Parliament, making it the largest UK party in the European Parliament. It has 488 councillors in UK local government and seven members in the National Assembly for Wales"
I get he'd be angry and want to vent, but he's seen as doing than on behalf of the British population and government, which is not what we need. And what a lot of us want.
Lets put it this way, if I was running a business and sent someone to negotiate something with another organisation, even if I knew the people he would be talking to were people he had despised for years, then I wouldn't think he needs telling to hold his tongue and be polite.
He is now effectively representing British people and government, and using it as a chance to sling shit across the room.
In short until parliament is in order he should not be allowed back in representing our national interests. |
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"http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-36570120
He's got balls, I'll give him that - but there is a reason a lot of people in that room are laughing at him. I especially like the guy face palming behind him.
I have to say, Farage just comes across as an odious little man who has no regard for the UK. why would he try so hard to rile people we have to negotiate with?
It's ridiculous how he flat out insults every person in the room and then in the very next breath asks them to be kind in their future trade negotiations.
He's entertaining for sure, but not the kind of person that should have a position of responsibility."
Let's just think for a moment, this is a fella who co-led a campaign to get us out of the EU whilst acting as a Euro MP himself.
Isn't that just a little bit like turkeys voting for Christmas and thanksgiving?
Yes he's got balls....Shame he walked off when the brains were handed out. |
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"this is a fella who co-led a campaign to get us out of the EU whilst acting as a Euro MP himself."
Not really - he got a 75 grand salary for turning up hardly ever. Was wet paper bag on fisheries committee, dropped out and then complained that UK interests were ignored. Come to think of it "acting" may be the mot juste. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I think there's a real chance article 50 will not be invoked. Boris chose leave as a political gambit, he believed it would be a slim win for remain, which would destabilise Cameron and Osborne clearing the way for him to take over, but not having to leave. The vote has come out Leave, and Cameron has simply gone "it's your dog that's shit on the rug, you deal with it" there will be at least 5 months before he can invoke 50,by which time public opinion may well have changed as more people realise the implications of an actual exit coupled with the exposure of the leave lies reduces support for actually pulling the trigger. "
I hope it's this as I and most people I know have felt really anxious about it all. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Believe it or not we had it good in the EU compared to other countries as we were the only ones to have 22 concessions that the others didn't have.
I wonder what we will do with all this vast wealth we have now supposedly saved, there should now be new hospitals going up every week with the money we are saving & building new homes jobs etc...
If you believe this then you were targeted right by the leave campaign as nothing will change except for the fact we have alienated our European allies.
Sounds like you should leave then. you'll be better recieved in Europe
Sounds to me you are taking this personal mate but this seems the opinion of most who voted out, hope you get what you have wished for i really do lol"
No...you just seemed to be moaning about it and making negative speculative assumptions and sarcasm about unknowns...so I just suggested maybe you'd be happier if you left. I'm one for staying as I believe and see a brighter future where we have our hands untied and have more choices...also the very fact that the people democratically voted shows me a hope to take this forward....If it had been like ordinary elections with only 30% required to pass something then I'd be very anti the result. |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"Without turning this into a slanging match.....
Will Brexit actually go through? Or will it be thwarted? "
There is a very long time to go yet and I have said on these forums (and others) for months that I didn't see it happening unless there was a huge majority and there wasn't.
Parliament needs to repeal the European Parliament Act of 1972 and give the Prime Minister authority to invoke Artice 50. Cameron has not done that because he knows full well that neither parliament, nor Lords will pass any such Bill so he has left it to the people who shafted him and lied to the nation to sort out. As a future PM, Boris thinks that the referendum gives him the mandate to invoke Article 50 without parliamentary approval but he will more than likely then force a vote of no confidence and he could be the shortest serving PM in history.
The deal breaker will be the UK access to the single market and no reasonably minded MP will put there name to the UK not being part of it for at least the short to mid term. Too many jobs, too much in exports and too much tax on the production of those exports are reliant on the single market - it would be one of the most irresponsible actions in history for any country to risk that without an alternative plan. |
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"Without turning this into a slanging match.....
Will Brexit actually go through? Or will it be thwarted?
There is a very long time to go yet and I have said on these forums (and others) for months that I didn't see it happening unless there was a huge majority and there wasn't.
Parliament needs to repeal the European Parliament Act of 1972 and give the Prime Minister authority to invoke Artice 50. Cameron has not done that because he knows full well that neither parliament, nor Lords will pass any such Bill so he has left it to the people who shafted him and lied to the nation to sort out. As a future PM, Boris thinks that the referendum gives him the mandate to invoke Article 50 without parliamentary approval but he will more than likely then force a vote of no confidence and he could be the shortest serving PM in history.
The deal breaker will be the UK access to the single market and no reasonably minded MP will put there name to the UK not being part of it for at least the short to mid term. Too many jobs, too much in exports and too much tax on the production of those exports are reliant on the single market - it would be one of the most irresponsible actions in history for any country to risk that without an alternative plan. "
They cannot have the single market without the 4 Freedoms.
They've been told that. Norway has to abide by that for access. |
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"
Sounds like you should leave then. you'll be better recieved in Europe
"
Quite. Ummm - we can't do that now though can we? Or at least we don't know if we will be deported back at some point in the future. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-a6HNXtdvVQ&feature=share"
The German film "Downfall" is an amazing film and the sense of naive idiosyncrasy in the original film created such a powerful "sound bite" that it's hardly surprising this bit gets used again and again . . bike riders should look out for the one where Hitler's VF gets written off and the Chiefs of Staff buy him a GS. Ace!
Yet, is there not a degree of truth here, did our own "home-grown" Straw-Head calculate this way? Hasn't thrown his hat in the ring - yet - has he? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Unfortunately everyone has suddenly become an expert on the matter. All I know is we haven't heard the last of it. My own personal view is that some sort of deal will be put in place and we will be offered another vote and it will be a large margin win for the stay campaign. There will be some legal wrangling over it all and it will drag on for years. I don't care how each and every one of you voted as that was your choice and so for people to be arguing and falling out over it is not good. "
Should this be attempted...it will only be further proof that leaving is the ONLY democratic thing to do.
The EU didn't exist before Thatcher signed the Maastricht Treaty. The Dutch had a referendum on accepting it....and voted NO. Other countries (including France) had referenda ignored or planned.....but then, seeing the Dutch result, promptly cancelled them. The Dutch were then threatened with all kinds of sanctions etc, had a few little amendments added and were told to vote again until they got it right. They buckled under Brussels bullying. Similar happened with the Lisbon treaty (the one Gordon Brown renamed on his referendum promise). The Dutch and Irish both had referenda and voted against....bullying and repeat votes...and they "accepted" the correct way to vote.
A repeat referendum here would just cement the total lack of democracy that the EU is!
It would spark riots! |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"Or will it be thwarted?
I find it chilling the belief the remainers have that somehow Brexit was a victory for the forces of evil, as opposed to a victory for democracy.
Jumping up and down screaming and throwing a tantrum because you didn't get your way isn't the mark of a civilised and moderate society."
What makes you think this is a civilised and moderate society? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I have been away for a few days so I may be repeating what others have posted but one or two observations:
* The FTSE has returned to normal and is at a higher value tahn before the Referendum.
* After making a good speech on Monday Osborne shows his true colours and tries to spook the markets on Tuesday Radio 4.
* The £ has recovered but is still lower than pre-referendum although the markets were hyoping it up as they prepared to 'make a market'. Lower £ makes exports cheaper and holidays more expensive.
* Most industries are saying 'wait & see' what the deal is before jumping or even talking about it. Jaguar confirmed like Airbus they are going nowhere.
* Why are people expecting it all to change like in 3 days? The 'Leave' people are playing it very sensibly and steadily. Its what is required now and for people to infer this is 'back peddling' just shows a lack of understanding IMHO.
* I see that old nutmeg the 'Norway deal' is still doing the rounds. It won't happen: We have a £61 Bn a year deficit with the EU. The EU takes 75% of Norway's exports. That is all that needs to be said. Oh wait no .. we are the 5th largest economy in the world.
* I see Ms Sturgeon has been appointed Foreign Secretary of the UK and is 'holding talks' with Gibraltar...
* Newsnight Monday night had Evan Davies and two journos happily saying that the solution to 'all the problems' was to hold a 2nd referendum. Gobsmacked!
* Some guy called 'Malik' on 'The Moral Maze' was actually saying that the young should have 1 1/2 votes each and the 'old people' should have one because they are 'useless' and threw away the young people's future. Forgetting of course that the'young' had a low turnout and everyone in the Uk is equal as far as voting is concerned. Where do these cretins come from? And how does he know the future will be worse outside the EU?
Interesting times still but I hope we can all get past the racist stuff and the losers accept they have been beaten and move on so we can all work together to make this country the best it can be....
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The deal breaker will be the UK access to the single market and no reasonably minded MP will put there name to the UK not being part of it for at least the short to mid term. Too many jobs, too much in exports and too much tax on the production of those exports are reliant on the single market - it would be one of the most irresponsible actions in history for any country to risk that without an alternative plan."
Please define 'access to the Single Market' for us. Because as far as I know every country in the world 'has access' to it. It is only members of the EU (or those who sign up for their own reasons) that have to pay in (well some do) and everyone has to take Freedom of Movement of Labour (not people please note).
The 'Single Market' is a hugely protected Customs Union. It is not a Free Trade Area as it erects protectionist tariffs against non EU members. Now we are in the process of leaving we can take down those Tariffs we have to charge countries like the USA, Canada, Australia etc. and open anew era of free trade. The rest of the world is a bigger place than what is left of the EU.
We will regain our seat at the WTO and this will ensure the EU cannot 'punish' or 'make an example' of the UK. Whatever they do to us we can do to them and the WTO will make sure we are treated exactly the same as everyone else. And if the EU feel the need to throw a 10% Tariff on our cars then Mrs Merkel will have many phone calls. As she already has...
My view is the new PM takes office in early September. We invoke Article 50 in late September and tell the EU that we will be leaving at the end of March. There are two arrangements to be made: 1) Article 50 triggers the mechanics of us leaving (EU citizens here, Brits in the EU etc) and 2) A new trade deal. The second is nothing to do with the first. |
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"The deal breaker will be the UK access to the single market and no reasonably minded MP will put there name to the UK not being part of it for at least the short to mid term. Too many jobs, too much in exports and too much tax on the production of those exports are reliant on the single market - it would be one of the most irresponsible actions in history for any country to risk that without an alternative plan.
Please define 'access to the Single Market' for us. Because as far as I know every country in the world 'has access' to it. It is only members of the EU (or those who sign up for their own reasons) that have to pay in (well some do) and everyone has to take Freedom of Movement of Labour (not people please note).
The 'Single Market' is a hugely protected Customs Union. It is not a Free Trade Area as it erects protectionist tariffs against non EU members. Now we are in the process of leaving we can take down those Tariffs we have to charge countries like the USA, Canada, Australia etc. and open anew era of free trade. The rest of the world is a bigger place than what is left of the EU.
We will regain our seat at the WTO and this will ensure the EU cannot 'punish' or 'make an example' of the UK. Whatever they do to us we can do to them and the WTO will make sure we are treated exactly the same as everyone else. And if the EU feel the need to throw a 10% Tariff on our cars then Mrs Merkel will have many phone calls. As she already has...
My view is the new PM takes office in early September. We invoke Article 50 in late September and tell the EU that we will be leaving at the end of March. There are two arrangements to be made: 1) Article 50 triggers the mechanics of us leaving (EU citizens here, Brits in the EU etc) and 2) A new trade deal. The second is nothing to do with the first."
Think I'm point one is also splitting any joint assets and debts ...also in point one is untangling laws ect have read its 80.000 pages |
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"I have been away for a few days so I may be repeating what others have posted but one or two observations:
* The FTSE has returned to normal and is at a higher value tahn before the Referendum.
* After making a good speech on Monday Osborne shows his true colours and tries to spook the markets on Tuesday Radio 4.
* The £ has recovered but is still lower than pre-referendum although the markets were hyoping it up as they prepared to 'make a market'. Lower £ makes exports cheaper and holidays more expensive.
* Most industries are saying 'wait & see' what the deal is before jumping or even talking about it. Jaguar confirmed like Airbus they are going nowhere.
* Why are people expecting it all to change like in 3 days? The 'Leave' people are playing it very sensibly and steadily. Its what is required now and for people to infer this is 'back peddling' just shows a lack of understanding IMHO.
* I see that old nutmeg the 'Norway deal' is still doing the rounds. It won't happen: We have a £61 Bn a year deficit with the EU. The EU takes 75% of Norway's exports. That is all that needs to be said. Oh wait no .. we are the 5th largest economy in the world.
* I see Ms Sturgeon has been appointed Foreign Secretary of the UK and is 'holding talks' with Gibraltar...
* Newsnight Monday night had Evan Davies and two journos happily saying that the solution to 'all the problems' was to hold a 2nd referendum. Gobsmacked!
* Some guy called 'Malik' on 'The Moral Maze' was actually saying that the young should have 1 1/2 votes each and the 'old people' should have one because they are 'useless' and threw away the young people's future. Forgetting of course that the'young' had a low turnout and everyone in the Uk is equal as far as voting is concerned. Where do these cretins come from? And how does he know the future will be worse outside the EU?
Interesting times still but I hope we can all get past the racist stuff and the losers accept they have been beaten and move on so we can all work together to make this country the best it can be....
"
lets hope you can move on when you realise the brexit deal is nothing like the painted by farage and bojo.. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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" lets hope you can move on when you realise the brexit deal is nothing like the painted by farage and bojo.. "
Well so you say 'it will be nothing like'. But then judging by your posts nothing is like how you describe it. And for the record Farage (much as I admire what he has achieved) wasn't part of the 'Vote Leave' campaign.
Plus of course all we were offering was the new and varied options available to a UK Govenrment post Brexit that are not available to them now.
Sometimes I wonder if people who want a re-run or are still moaning about the result actually realise it was a binary referendum (as in it was an 'In' / 'Out' question). It was not a constituency based General Election where policies and manifestos are offered by a party looking to get into office (or remain in office).
I would have thought the fact that both main parties were represented in both campaigns made that obvious. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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" They cannot have the single market without the 4 Freedoms.
They've been told that. Norway has to abide by that for access. "
Dear God can you people stop wittering on about Norway? What part of 'we are not Norway' don't you quite understand? Look here is why Norway took the deal they did: The EU takes 75% of Norway's exports in raw materials. Norway runs a substantial trade surplus with the EU. They make money out of the EU.
On the other hand the EU takes less than 50% of our exports so we ship more globally despite the Tariffs we have to charge being part of the EU on imports. We run £61 Bn a year trade deficit with the EU. We also pay in a nett £13.2 Bn a year. We make a huge loss on the EU experiment. They need us more than we need them.
It is a completely different negotiating situation.
Lets remember we trade with most countries of the world. Which means we have Bilateral Trade Agreements with those countries so they will stay in place although we will want to reduce our EU enforced import Tariffs to encourage more trade and give choice (and competition) of supply. the USA and all the others who 'access the Single Market' do not paying neither do they have 'Free Movement' so why should we? Apart from Germany our economy is bigger than all the other 26 members of the EU.... They just lost their 2nd biggest contributor and THAT is why they are pissed off... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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" They cannot have the single market without the 4 Freedoms.
They've been told that. Norway has to abide by that for access.
Dear God can you people stop wittering on about Norway? What part of 'we are not Norway' don't you quite understand? Look here is why Norway took the deal they did: The EU takes 75% of Norway's exports in raw materials. Norway runs a substantial trade surplus with the EU. They make money out of the EU.
On the other hand the EU takes less than 50% of our exports so we ship more globally despite the Tariffs we have to charge being part of the EU on imports. We run £61 Bn a year trade deficit with the EU. We also pay in a nett £13.2 Bn a year. We make a huge loss on the EU experiment. They need us more than we need them.
It is a completely different negotiating situation.
Lets remember we trade with most countries of the world. Which means we have Bilateral Trade Agreements with those countries so they will stay in place although we will want to reduce our EU enforced import Tariffs to encourage more trade and give choice (and competition) of supply. the USA and all the others who 'access the Single Market' do not paying neither do they have 'Free Movement' so why should we? Apart from Germany our economy is bigger than all the other 26 members of the EU.... They just lost their 2nd biggest contributor and THAT is why they are pissed off..."
well said and very clear. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
" They cannot have the single market without the 4 Freedoms.
They've been told that. Norway has to abide by that for access.
Dear God can you people stop wittering on about Norway? What part of 'we are not Norway' don't you quite understand? Look here is why Norway took the deal they did: The EU takes 75% of Norway's exports in raw materials. Norway runs a substantial trade surplus with the EU. They make money out of the EU.
On the other hand the EU takes less than 50% of our exports so we ship more globally despite the Tariffs we have to charge being part of the EU on imports. We run £61 Bn a year trade deficit with the EU. We also pay in a nett £13.2 Bn a year. We make a huge loss on the EU experiment. They need us more than we need them.
It is a completely different negotiating situation.
Lets remember we trade with most countries of the world. Which means we have Bilateral Trade Agreements with those countries so they will stay in place although we will want to reduce our EU enforced import Tariffs to encourage more trade and give choice (and competition) of supply. the USA and all the others who 'access the Single Market' do not paying neither do they have 'Free Movement' so why should we? Apart from Germany our economy is bigger than all the other 26 members of the EU.... They just lost their 2nd biggest contributor and THAT is why they are pissed off...
well said and very clear."
Whilst I agree with the above, that is ultimately the issue. The EU under the command of Junker will dig its heels in, till either we give in, or one person gets dragged down.
It's a real same, he is getting so worked up in all this, an he's so inflexible he'll end up being the cause of the break up of the EU. |
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