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Corbyn's shadow cabinet
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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He is starting to put a new one together. Given that (we assume) he had previously chosen the best people for the jobs...is he now scraping an ever decreasing barrel?
Can he appoint people fast enough to replace the continuing stream of resignations?
Will there actually be enough MPs to actually populate his shadow cabinet? The only ones left will be self-serving lick spittles.....so not likely to be up to much? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"He is starting to put a new one together. Given that (we assume) he had previously chosen the best people for the jobs...is he now scraping an ever decreasing barrel?
Can he appoint people fast enough to replace the continuing stream of resignations?
Will there actually be enough MPs to actually populate his shadow cabinet? The only ones left will be self-serving lick spittles.....so not likely to be up to much?"
They wouldnt have got so far if they werent up to much imo. Time will tell i guess. Your probably right on the bias side. A good leader should include those who dont go against the grain but that doesnt translate to polotics unfortunately xx |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"He should get rid of Tom Watson as my money will be on him to be behind it all."
He can't though. Tom Watson was elected directly by the Labour party membership not appointed by Corbyn |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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If Gisela Stuart was Labour Leader, I would start to vote for Labour again, she has proven herself and is a well established, level headed lady
.
she would get my vote
 |
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By *iewMan
over a year ago
Forum Mod Angus & Findhorn |
"He should get rid of Tom Watson as my money will be on him to be behind it all.
He can't though. Tom Watson was elected directly by the Labour party membership not appointed by Corbyn "
He's doomed then  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"personally i think its a shame
Surely things would be better if everybody pulled together and supported each other
what happened to team work"
I agree. The party pulling together would have been infinitely better.
The anti-Corbyn contingent of the Labour party has taken an opportunity for Labour to actually matter in this whole debacle and instead made a complete mess of the party. Leadership seems to be absolutely no where for any party other than the SNP. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I really like Corbyn and think he does epitomise something we need in this country: a less bullshitty way of doing politics. Unfortunately, the country doesn't appear to be ready for that yet, and he is, still, unelectable. I think that's a poorer reflection on our culture than on him personally though.
I'd have thought we'd had enough of PR-slick teflon politicians after Blair and Cameron, and would rather have thoughtful and intelligent politicians who don't rise to soundbite-seeking questions from journalists who just want to sell a paper or gain a scoop, but sadly it seems we still live in an age when Murdoch and his cronies get to decide what we think. It'd be nice to think we could vote in a slightly more intelligent and grown-up way, but the reality seems to be that all the next Labour really needs to make sure of is that they don't look stupid eating a bacon sandwich.  |
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"personally i think its a shame
Surely things would be better if everybody pulled together and supported each other
what happened to team work
I agree. The party pulling together would have been infinitely better.
The anti-Corbyn contingent of the Labour party has taken an opportunity for Labour to actually matter in this whole debacle and instead made a complete mess of the party. Leadership seems to be absolutely no where for any party other than the SNP."
Regardless of what the public feels the labour MP'S can sense a general election in the autumn so are in panic mode given Corbyn's charisma |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"personally i think its a shame
Surely things would be better if everybody pulled together and supported each other
what happened to team work
I agree. The party pulling together would have been infinitely better.
The anti-Corbyn contingent of the Labour party has taken an opportunity for Labour to actually matter in this whole debacle and instead made a complete mess of the party. Leadership seems to be absolutely no where for any party other than the SNP."
You can't reasonably expect MPs to pull together behind someone they consider unelectable. Nobody enters politics to be in the shadow cabinet all their career. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If Gisela Stuart was Labour Leader, I would start to vote for Labour again, she has proven herself and is a well established, level headed lady
.
she would get my vote
"
Dan Jarvis would get mine. |
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"I really like Corbyn and think he does epitomise something we need in this country: a less bullshitty way of doing politics. Unfortunately, the country doesn't appear to be ready for that yet, and he is, still, unelectable. I think that's a poorer reflection on our culture than on him personally though.
I'd have thought we'd had enough of PR-slick teflon politicians after Blair and Cameron, and would rather have thoughtful and intelligent politicians who don't rise to soundbite-seeking questions from journalists who just want to sell a paper or gain a scoop, but sadly it seems we still live in an age when Murdoch and his cronies get to decide what we think. It'd be nice to think we could vote in a slightly more intelligent and grown-up way, but the reality seems to be that all the next Labour really needs to make sure of is that they don't look stupid eating a bacon sandwich. "
Why doesn't he include the likes of Tim Vine to lighten the mood a bit or have a game of thrones themed shadow cabinet that would be fun |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"He is starting to put a new one together. Given that (we assume) he had previously chosen the best people for the jobs...is he now scraping an ever decreasing barrel?
Can he appoint people fast enough to replace the continuing stream of resignations?
Will there actually be enough MPs to actually populate his shadow cabinet? The only ones left will be self-serving lick spittles.....so not likely to be up to much?"
All the reasonable people refused to serve in the first place.
Now the mercenaries are leaving because they realise they won't get their day in the sun behind this loser.
Those remaining: looney toons and lightweights. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I really like Corbyn and think he does epitomise something we need in this country: a less bullshitty way of doing politics. Unfortunately, the country doesn't appear to be ready for that yet, and he is, still, unelectable. I think that's a poorer reflection on our culture than on him personally though.
I'd have thought we'd had enough of PR-slick teflon politicians after Blair and Cameron, and would rather have thoughtful and intelligent politicians who don't rise to soundbite-seeking questions from journalists who just want to sell a paper or gain a scoop, but sadly it seems we still live in an age when Murdoch and his cronies get to decide what we think. It'd be nice to think we could vote in a slightly more intelligent and grown-up way, but the reality seems to be that all the next Labour really needs to make sure of is that they don't look stupid eating a bacon sandwich. "
Why is everything a conspiracy to lefties?
Newspaper sales have been dropping faster than type writer sales for years. I don't know anyone who reads of them or gives a crap what the Murdoch press thinks.
Is it not possible that actually a majority of voters don't like Corbyn's 1982 _iews on things? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"personally i think its a shame
Surely things would be better if everybody pulled together and supported each other
what happened to team work
I agree. The party pulling together would have been infinitely better.
The anti-Corbyn contingent of the Labour party has taken an opportunity for Labour to actually matter in this whole debacle and instead made a complete mess of the party. Leadership seems to be absolutely no where for any party other than the SNP.
You can't reasonably expect MPs to pull together behind someone they consider unelectable. Nobody enters politics to be in the shadow cabinet all their career. "
I can reasonably expect MPs to pull together behind their party leader - yes. They are making their own beds. If they were unified they might have a chance at being electable. As it is, they look incompetent. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"personally i think its a shame
Surely things would be better if everybody pulled together and supported each other
what happened to team work
I agree. The party pulling together would have been infinitely better.
The anti-Corbyn contingent of the Labour party has taken an opportunity for Labour to actually matter in this whole debacle and instead made a complete mess of the party. Leadership seems to be absolutely no where for any party other than the SNP.
You can't reasonably expect MPs to pull together behind someone they consider unelectable. Nobody enters politics to be in the shadow cabinet all their career.
I can reasonably expect MPs to pull together behind their party leader - yes. They are making their own beds. If they were unified they might have a chance at being electable. As it is, they look incompetent. "
They are simply unelectable. Corbyn's policies were largely tried in 1983 and were some of the most unpopular ever. Your American friends would spit coffee over you if you told them a marxist could be elected in the motherland.
Brown was left of Blair, Milliband was left of Brown, Corbyn is left of Milliband - how far left are they going to go before someone says "hey guys, I think we left most the voters in the middle ground" |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"personally i think its a shame
Surely things would be better if everybody pulled together and supported each other
what happened to team work
I agree. The party pulling together would have been infinitely better.
The anti-Corbyn contingent of the Labour party has taken an opportunity for Labour to actually matter in this whole debacle and instead made a complete mess of the party. Leadership seems to be absolutely no where for any party other than the SNP.
You can't reasonably expect MPs to pull together behind someone they consider unelectable. Nobody enters politics to be in the shadow cabinet all their career.
I can reasonably expect MPs to pull together behind their party leader - yes. They are making their own beds. If they were unified they might have a chance at being electable. As it is, they look incompetent.
They are simply unelectable. Corbyn's policies were largely tried in 1983 and were some of the most unpopular ever. Your American friends would spit coffee over you if you told them a marxist could be elected in the motherland.
Brown was left of Blair, Milliband was left of Brown, Corbyn is left of Milliband - how far left are they going to go before someone says "hey guys, I think we left most the voters in the middle ground" "
I can't argue what is or isn't electable in the UK. I simply don't have the knowledge of UK politics. But I have a very good understanding of party politics generally and how to win elections, and I will say this - regardless of Corbyn's policies and their popularity, the worst thing a party can do is have internal strife at a time when the country needs leadership. This would have been a prime time for the Labour party to come out unified and strong with the Conservatives in panic. They didn't. Instead they look ridiculous. It's bad politics. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"personally i think its a shame
Surely things would be better if everybody pulled together and supported each other
what happened to team work
I agree. The party pulling together would have been infinitely better.
The anti-Corbyn contingent of the Labour party has taken an opportunity for Labour to actually matter in this whole debacle and instead made a complete mess of the party. Leadership seems to be absolutely no where for any party other than the SNP.
You can't reasonably expect MPs to pull together behind someone they consider unelectable. Nobody enters politics to be in the shadow cabinet all their career.
I can reasonably expect MPs to pull together behind their party leader - yes. They are making their own beds. If they were unified they might have a chance at being electable. As it is, they look incompetent.
They are simply unelectable. Corbyn's policies were largely tried in 1983 and were some of the most unpopular ever. Your American friends would spit coffee over you if you told them a marxist could be elected in the motherland.
Brown was left of Blair, Milliband was left of Brown, Corbyn is left of Milliband - how far left are they going to go before someone says "hey guys, I think we left most the voters in the middle ground"
I can't argue what is or isn't electable in the UK. I simply don't have the knowledge of UK politics. But I have a very good understanding of party politics generally and how to win elections, and I will say this - regardless of Corbyn's policies and their popularity, the worst thing a party can do is have internal strife at a time when the country needs leadership. This would have been a prime time for the Labour party to come out unified and strong with the Conservatives in panic. They didn't. Instead they look ridiculous. It's bad politics."
But there's nobody left to unify! The heavy hitters largely refused to associate with him in the first place (Yvette Cooper, Chukka Umunna etc), the B-team has just resigned, it's like Hitler in a Berlin bunker of diehards now. |
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"personally i think its a shame
Surely things would be better if everybody pulled together and supported each other
what happened to team work
I agree. The party pulling together would have been infinitely better.
The anti-Corbyn contingent of the Labour party has taken an opportunity for Labour to actually matter in this whole debacle and instead made a complete mess of the party. Leadership seems to be absolutely no where for any party other than the SNP.
You can't reasonably expect MPs to pull together behind someone they consider unelectable. Nobody enters politics to be in the shadow cabinet all their career.
I can reasonably expect MPs to pull together behind their party leader - yes. They are making their own beds. If they were unified they might have a chance at being electable. As it is, they look incompetent.
They are simply unelectable. Corbyn's policies were largely tried in 1983 and were some of the most unpopular ever. Your American friends would spit coffee over you if you told them a marxist could be elected in the motherland.
Brown was left of Blair, Milliband was left of Brown, Corbyn is left of Milliband - how far left are they going to go before someone says "hey guys, I think we left most the voters in the middle ground"
I can't argue what is or isn't electable in the UK. I simply don't have the knowledge of UK politics. But I have a very good understanding of party politics generally and how to win elections, and I will say this - regardless of Corbyn's policies and their popularity, the worst thing a party can do is have internal strife at a time when the country needs leadership. This would have been a prime time for the Labour party to come out unified and strong with the Conservatives in panic. They didn't. Instead they look ridiculous. It's bad politics."
The reason is that all the main parties were for remain. A general election is on the cards. Labour mps are terrified of losing their seats hence the sudden focus on the leadership. The ball is the tory party's court about article 50 so this is the perfect time for labour to have an internal power struggle. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"personally i think its a shame
Surely things would be better if everybody pulled together and supported each other
what happened to team work
I agree. The party pulling together would have been infinitely better.
The anti-Corbyn contingent of the Labour party has taken an opportunity for Labour to actually matter in this whole debacle and instead made a complete mess of the party. Leadership seems to be absolutely no where for any party other than the SNP.
You can't reasonably expect MPs to pull together behind someone they consider unelectable. Nobody enters politics to be in the shadow cabinet all their career.
I can reasonably expect MPs to pull together behind their party leader - yes. They are making their own beds. If they were unified they might have a chance at being electable. As it is, they look incompetent.
They are simply unelectable. Corbyn's policies were largely tried in 1983 and were some of the most unpopular ever. Your American friends would spit coffee over you if you told them a marxist could be elected in the motherland.
Brown was left of Blair, Milliband was left of Brown, Corbyn is left of Milliband - how far left are they going to go before someone says "hey guys, I think we left most the voters in the middle ground"
I can't argue what is or isn't electable in the UK. I simply don't have the knowledge of UK politics. But I have a very good understanding of party politics generally and how to win elections, and I will say this - regardless of Corbyn's policies and their popularity, the worst thing a party can do is have internal strife at a time when the country needs leadership. This would have been a prime time for the Labour party to come out unified and strong with the Conservatives in panic. They didn't. Instead they look ridiculous. It's bad politics.
But there's nobody left to unify! The heavy hitters largely refused to associate with him in the first place (Yvette Cooper, Chukka Umunna etc), the B-team has just resigned, it's like Hitler in a Berlin bunker of diehards now. "
But that's begging the question. My point was those people should have unified after the brexit vote. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"personally i think its a shame
Surely things would be better if everybody pulled together and supported each other
what happened to team work
I agree. The party pulling together would have been infinitely better.
The anti-Corbyn contingent of the Labour party has taken an opportunity for Labour to actually matter in this whole debacle and instead made a complete mess of the party. Leadership seems to be absolutely no where for any party other than the SNP.
You can't reasonably expect MPs to pull together behind someone they consider unelectable. Nobody enters politics to be in the shadow cabinet all their career.
I can reasonably expect MPs to pull together behind their party leader - yes. They are making their own beds. If they were unified they might have a chance at being electable. As it is, they look incompetent.
They are simply unelectable. Corbyn's policies were largely tried in 1983 and were some of the most unpopular ever. Your American friends would spit coffee over you if you told them a marxist could be elected in the motherland.
Brown was left of Blair, Milliband was left of Brown, Corbyn is left of Milliband - how far left are they going to go before someone says "hey guys, I think we left most the voters in the middle ground"
I can't argue what is or isn't electable in the UK. I simply don't have the knowledge of UK politics. But I have a very good understanding of party politics generally and how to win elections, and I will say this - regardless of Corbyn's policies and their popularity, the worst thing a party can do is have internal strife at a time when the country needs leadership. This would have been a prime time for the Labour party to come out unified and strong with the Conservatives in panic. They didn't. Instead they look ridiculous. It's bad politics.
The reason is that all the main parties were for remain. A general election is on the cards. Labour mps are terrified of losing their seats hence the sudden focus on the leadership. The ball is the tory party's court about article 50 so this is the perfect time for labour to have an internal power struggle."
I get why they are doing it, but I think it will fail in the end. I think the internal power struggle is a mistake on their part. Time will tell. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The 'labour' party,has had nothing to do with labour,ie working class for the last two decades,at least,everything runs its course,come down to Corbinned to turn off the lights |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Being very much a tory and loving the fact that Boris will become pm soon - could I please ask Labour to keep Corbin ?
He's doing a great job and long may he reign in his position  |
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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago
Somewhere in North Norfolk |
"personally i think its a shame
Surely things would be better if everybody pulled together and supported each other
what happened to team work
I agree. The party pulling together would have been infinitely better.
The anti-Corbyn contingent of the Labour party has taken an opportunity for Labour to actually matter in this whole debacle and instead made a complete mess of the party. Leadership seems to be absolutely no where for any party other than the SNP.
You can't reasonably expect MPs to pull together behind someone they consider unelectable. Nobody enters politics to be in the shadow cabinet all their career. "
Except for the fact that Corbyn was chosen by the people, not the politicians the people are supposed to represent.
The politicians who are anti-Corbyn would do well to remember they are supposed to work for us and represent what we want.
I am staunchly behind Corbyn and believe he's one of the few moral politicians out there today.
Labour need to be doing something different. They've become the Tory Party Lite, full of politicians there to feather their own nests and take advantage of the gravy train.
If Corbyn is driven out, Labour will lose my respect. Democracy should be about what the electorate want and the electorate made it clear they want Corbyn at the helm. |
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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago
Somewhere in North Norfolk |
It's funny how the Tories are trying to convince us he's unelectable!
They're only bothering to try to sew seeds of doubt, just as they usually do. They lie about what they'll do and lie about what anyone else will do.
Corbyn is virtually the only honest politician with any integrity left.
If the Tories actually believed Corbyn unelectable, they'd quietly let him get on with it rather than spend so much effort trying to convince people he isn't what they want! |
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"personally i think its a shame
Surely things would be better if everybody pulled together and supported each other
what happened to team work
I agree. The party pulling together would have been infinitely better.
The anti-Corbyn contingent of the Labour party has taken an opportunity for Labour to actually matter in this whole debacle and instead made a complete mess of the party. Leadership seems to be absolutely no where for any party other than the SNP.
You can't reasonably expect MPs to pull together behind someone they consider unelectable. Nobody enters politics to be in the shadow cabinet all their career.
Except for the fact that Corbyn was chosen by the people, not the politicians the people are supposed to represent.
The politicians who are anti-Corbyn would do well to remember they are supposed to work for us and represent what we want.
I am staunchly behind Corbyn and believe he's one of the few moral politicians out there today.
Labour need to be doing something different. They've become the Tory Party Lite, full of politicians there to feather their own nests and take advantage of the gravy train.
If Corbyn is driven out, Labour will lose my respect. Democracy should be about what the electorate want and the electorate made it clear they want Corbyn at the helm."
What you forget is that all the politicians were locally elected. If you added up their votes, it would be a lot more than Corbyn ever got. Many peole who voted for Corbyn probably didn't even vote in Parliamentary elections, so Corbyn does not represent the voters, he represents a group of people who wanted to complain about the 'establishment'. Corbyn is more akin to 'Boatie McBoatface' than a real leader. The Labour Party is more than Corbyn and more than gesture politics. The MPs represent their constituancies and the Labour Party. Corbyn should resign if he feels anything for the future of the Party. The last 9 months have been an utter shambles and he did sweet FA to help the remain camp. The man has no real principles, he is not a Leader and he should go. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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To be honest I don't like or dislike him, but if it was me and 23 or more of my team just resigned and walked out saying that they had no confidence in me I would just walk.
No speeches or anything just get me coat and walk out leaving them all to it.
After this they have done so much damage to him he will get no support.
 |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It's funny how the Tories are trying to convince us he's unelectable!
They're only bothering to try to sew seeds of doubt, just as they usually do. They lie about what they'll do and lie about what anyone else will do.
Corbyn is virtually the only honest politician with any integrity left.
If the Tories actually believed Corbyn unelectable, they'd quietly let him get on with it rather than spend so much effort trying to convince people he isn't what they want!"
Sorry Dee, but I think that's hope over experience speaking.
Jeremy's handling of the referendum has been nothing short of disastrous. He divides opinion in almost an extreme way as Farage. I've been to quite a few Corbyn meetings, and I see very little evidence of anyone outside of the same faces - certainly not the huge "youth" contingent that is claimed.
I'm a certified lefty, and voted for Jezza, but the broad church party is dying with him there and he needs to resign now. |
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"He is starting to put a new one together. Given that (we assume) he had previously chosen the best people for the jobs...is he now scraping an ever decreasing barrel?
Can he appoint people fast enough to replace the continuing stream of resignations?
Will there actually be enough MPs to actually populate his shadow cabinet? The only ones left will be self-serving lick spittles.....so not likely to be up to much?
They wouldnt have got so far if they werent up to much imo. Time will tell i guess. Your probably right on the bias side. A good leader should include those who dont go against the grain but that doesnt translate to polotics unfortunately xx"
Sorry could,nt resist politics over polotics.. I,ll stay.. |
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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago
Somewhere in North Norfolk |
"To be honest I don't like or dislike him, but if it was me and 23 or more of my team just resigned and walked out saying that they had no confidence in me I would just walk.
No speeches or anything just get me coat and walk out leaving them all to it.
After this they have done so much damage to him he will get no support.
"
Not true. I'm behind him, not the traitorous children. |
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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago
Somewhere in North Norfolk |
"It's funny how the Tories are trying to convince us he's unelectable!
They're only bothering to try to sew seeds of doubt, just as they usually do. They lie about what they'll do and lie about what anyone else will do.
Corbyn is virtually the only honest politician with any integrity left.
If the Tories actually believed Corbyn unelectable, they'd quietly let him get on with it rather than spend so much effort trying to convince people he isn't what they want!
Sorry Dee, but I think that's hope over experience speaking.
Jeremy's handling of the referendum has been nothing short of disastrous. He divides opinion in almost an extreme way as Farage. I've been to quite a few Corbyn meetings, and I see very little evidence of anyone outside of the same faces - certainly not the huge "youth" contingent that is claimed.
I'm a certified lefty, and voted for Jezza, but the broad church party is dying with him there and he needs to resign now."
No, it's the _iew of me and a lot of my friends speaking.
A lot of regular people are still very much behind Corbyn. |
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"Being very much a tory and loving the fact that Boris will become pm soon - could I please ask Labour to keep Corbin ?
He's doing a great job and long may he reign in his position "
Be *very* careful what you wish for.
I warned american friends that Obama was nothing more than a black Tony Blair, and events since prove that wholeheartedly.
Boris has an entirely cultivated (in other words fake) public fascade that seems to be entirely devoted to the furtherance of Boris.
Brexit was not a bote for brexit, it was a vote for "none of the above" and only a fool cannot see that ALL the politicos are acutely aware of it, in the scramble to find *anyone* electable in late 2016.
Without exception they are all either poeple who have had their snouts in the trough, or people wanting their turn at putting their snouts in the trough.
Meanwhile the seismic events of the brexit vote are still spreading, 8 other countries now want a referendum, banks have lost 30% of their market cap (quite rightly as they were all over extended) and there are many many many issues that need adressing before we get to a general election.
Never mind, cameroon has decided he isn't going to do any of that hard shit (his own words) why should he, not like he was elected or paid to do it for many years is it. |
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"It's funny how the Tories are trying to convince us he's unelectable!
They're only bothering to try to sew seeds of doubt, just as they usually do. They lie about what they'll do and lie about what anyone else will do.
Corbyn is virtually the only honest politician with any integrity left.
If the Tories actually believed Corbyn unelectable, they'd quietly let him get on with it rather than spend so much effort trying to convince people he isn't what they want!
Sorry Dee, but I think that's hope over experience speaking.
Jeremy's handling of the referendum has been nothing short of disastrous. He divides opinion in almost an extreme way as Farage. I've been to quite a few Corbyn meetings, and I see very little evidence of anyone outside of the same faces - certainly not the huge "youth" contingent that is claimed.
I'm a certified lefty, and voted for Jezza, but the broad church party is dying with him there and he needs to resign now.
No, it's the _iew of me and a lot of my friends speaking.
A lot of regular people are still very much behind Corbyn."
& a lot more aren't... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
Corbyn is virtually the only honest politician with any integrity left.
"
Yeah its not like he'd refuse to campaign for the referendum side he believed in is it |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"personally i think its a shame
Surely things would be better if everybody pulled together and supported each other
what happened to team work
I agree. The party pulling together would have been infinitely better.
The anti-Corbyn contingent of the Labour party has taken an opportunity for Labour to actually matter in this whole debacle and instead made a complete mess of the party. Leadership seems to be absolutely no where for any party other than the SNP.
You can't reasonably expect MPs to pull together behind someone they consider unelectable. Nobody enters politics to be in the shadow cabinet all their career.
Except for the fact that Corbyn was chosen by the people,"
He was chosen by the trade unions like Ed Milliband was - look what the electorate thought of him |
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"The 'labour' party,has had nothing to do with labour,ie working class for the last two decades,at least,everything runs its course,come down to Corbinned to turn off the lights"
go back another two decades on top scargill came out supposedly against maggie and for the miners but did he, was it for all his communist chums back in russia Instead and the winter of discontent theres always been trouble down mill for a long time.. I think politics is at a turning point in history now but we don,t seem to have any charismatic leaders out there unless there hideing but who evers in charge its not long before the bullets start flying, I,d rather listen to ken dodd and the diddymen than the drawl thats usually spoke, at least you could have a laugh.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
Yeah its not like he'd refuse to campaign for the referendum side he believed in is it"
Corbyn has always said there are problems with the EU, but if you listened to him, he listed plenty of reasons why he felt being in was still better than being out. People have vilified him for saying he was "7, maybe 7.5 out of 10 for the EU", but actually, I think most Remain voters were the same. I certainly was. I doubt you'd find anyone who would give the EU 10 out of 10. It needs reform (whether we're in it or not), and to me, that's pretty much what 7.5/10 means.
You can criticise him for his lack of charisma, for not geeing-up the Remain lobby etc., but I don't think he was dishonest about his _iew of the EU. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
Yeah its not like he'd refuse to campaign for the referendum side he believed in is it
Corbyn has always said there are problems with the EU, but if you listened to him, he listed plenty of reasons why he felt being in was still better than being out. People have vilified him for saying he was "7, maybe 7.5 out of 10 for the EU", but actually, I think most Remain voters were the same. I certainly was. I doubt you'd find anyone who would give the EU 10 out of 10. It needs reform (whether we're in it or not), and to me, that's pretty much what 7.5/10 means.
You can criticise him for his lack of charisma, for not geeing-up the Remain lobby etc., but I don't think he was dishonest about his _iew of the EU."
Nice attempt at spin, you'll probably make the shadow cabinet soon.
I thought he was a "man a principle"? Why didn't he campaign for the same side he'd been on his whole career? You can't divide your vote into pieces and put some of it on remain and some on leave. Oh wait, he did! |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"personally i think its a shame
Surely things would be better if everybody pulled together and supported each other
what happened to team work
I agree. The party pulling together would have been infinitely better.
The anti-Corbyn contingent of the Labour party has taken an opportunity for Labour to actually matter in this whole debacle and instead made a complete mess of the party. Leadership seems to be absolutely no where for any party other than the SNP.
You can't reasonably expect MPs to pull together behind someone they consider unelectable. Nobody enters politics to be in the shadow cabinet all their career.
I can reasonably expect MPs to pull together behind their party leader - yes. They are making their own beds. If they were unified they might have a chance at being electable. As it is, they look incompetent.
They are simply unelectable. Corbyn's policies were largely tried in 1983 and were some of the most unpopular ever. Your American friends would spit coffee over you if you told them a marxist could be elected in the motherland.
Brown was left of Blair, Milliband was left of Brown, Corbyn is left of Milliband - how far left are they going to go before someone says "hey guys, I think we left most the voters in the middle ground"
I can't argue what is or isn't electable in the UK. ."
I can, Blair was. I know his name is a dirty word within the Labour party, but he won 3 elections back to back. His government created tax credits, the minimum wage, independence of the Bank of England, the Good Friday agreement, NI & Welsh Assemblies, Scottish parliament etc. Etc.
The turn out in 1997 was the biggest in a generation. But ever Labour leader since has sought to distance themselves as much as possible from his legacy and his supporters, and have they been rewarded at the polls? No. |
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I like corbyn ....he calls a spade a spade .... I think he will do well .. if others want to leave .... let them go .....
He needs a new team .... fresh blood.
And as for Boris ..... give him a chance .....weve had far worse  |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"I like corbyn ....he calls a spade a spade .... I think he will do well .. if others want to leave .... let them go .....
He needs a new team .... fresh blood.
And as for Boris ..... give him a chance .....weve had far worse "
A question for Corbyn supporters, what one thing has he done since becoming leader has impressed you the most? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"personally i think its a shame
Surely things would be better if everybody pulled together and supported each other
what happened to team work
I agree. The party pulling together would have been infinitely better.
The anti-Corbyn contingent of the Labour party has taken an opportunity for Labour to actually matter in this whole debacle and instead made a complete mess of the party. Leadership seems to be absolutely no where for any party other than the SNP.
You can't reasonably expect MPs to pull together behind someone they consider unelectable. Nobody enters politics to be in the shadow cabinet all their career.
I can reasonably expect MPs to pull together behind their party leader - yes. They are making their own beds. If they were unified they might have a chance at being electable. As it is, they look incompetent.
They are simply unelectable. Corbyn's policies were largely tried in 1983 and were some of the most unpopular ever. Your American friends would spit coffee over you if you told them a marxist could be elected in the motherland.
Brown was left of Blair, Milliband was left of Brown, Corbyn is left of Milliband - how far left are they going to go before someone says "hey guys, I think we left most the voters in the middle ground"
I can't argue what is or isn't electable in the UK. .
I can, Blair was. I know his name is a dirty word within the Labour party, but he won 3 elections back to back. His government created tax credits, the minimum wage, independence of the Bank of England, the Good Friday agreement, NI & Welsh Assemblies, Scottish parliament etc. Etc.
The turn out in 1997 was the biggest in a generation. But ever Labour leader since has sought to distance themselves as much as possible from his legacy and his supporters, and have they been rewarded at the polls? No."
Blair was fucking awesome. Yeah yeah he made a mistake on Iraq, just like Nick Clegg made a mistake of tuition fees and Cameron did a boo boo on the referendum. Do they deserve to have their entire legacy defined by it?
That's up to people to decide but Blair did more for ordinary people when he granted independance to the monetary policy committee than Corbyn will ever do. Just most people are too thick to understand what that actually means. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"david milliband flies back to the UK I wonder why ?where else in the world would want him he was doing fine in the states "
doing what precisely?.....oh filling his pockets,of course he's a failed politician,all aboard.....the gravy train! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"A question for Corbyn supporters, what one thing has he done since becoming leader has impressed you the most?"
Answered questions directly and thoughtfully rather than with off-the-cuff glibness. Avoided giving soundbite responses and given short-shrift to leading questions set up only to create tabloid dramas. Continued to engage with grass-roots supporters and ordinary people.
Generally, been a human-being rather than a teflon-coated PR spin machine. That's what I find most refreshing and much needed in our modern politics, but you can see that the press in particular struggle with it; he doesn't give them what they're used to, so they've tended to just react with dismissal. Sadly, I also think that we, the public, are so conditioned to slickness now that we find its absence jarring, which is why he probably is unelectable. Which is a shame - I think a Corbyn-led government would do a lot of good for the marginalised and dispossessed of this country, who have had a pretty raw deal under Cameron's tenure. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Blair was fucking awesome. Yeah yeah he made a mistake on Iraq, just like Nick Clegg made a mistake of tuition fees and Cameron did a boo boo on the referendum. Do they deserve to have their entire legacy defined by it?
That's up to people to decide but Blair did more for ordinary people when he granted independance to the monetary policy committee than Corbyn will ever do. Just most people are too thick to understand what that actually means. "
I tend to agree. People look back at Blair's premiership now only through the lens of Iraq, which might be understandable, but misses a lot of good that he actually achieved. And to be honest, I thought Brown was better than he was given credit for too. I'd like to see what Corbyn could do, but I doubt we'll ever get that chance. |
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"He is starting to put a new one together. Given that (we assume) he had previously chosen the best people for the jobs...is he now scraping an ever decreasing barrel?
Can he appoint people fast enough to replace the continuing stream of resignations?
Will there actually be enough MPs to actually populate his shadow cabinet? The only ones left will be self-serving lick spittles.....so not likely to be up to much?"
I think you are wrong in your analysis, that is understandable. As is your assumption that the original the original shadow cabinet would have been made up of the best people in the PLP.
I would suggest that far from picking the best people to deliver a credible opposition when appointing his shadow cabinet Corbyn appointed those he felt were best placed to unite the party after a hard fought leadership battle following a disastrous general election. Unfortunately for Corbyn the red tories had no intention in uniting behind their new leader and saw his attempt to include them in the cabinet as an opportunity to ferment and incite disaffection.
I just hope that he goes the whole hog and forces the red tories in the PLP reapply for their constituency nominations and that they are deselected and replaced by socialists. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"A question for Corbyn supporters, what one thing has he done since becoming leader has impressed you the most?
Answered questions directly and thoughtfully rather than with off-the-cuff glibness. Avoided giving soundbite responses and given short-shrift to leading questions set up only to create tabloid dramas. Continued to engage with grass-roots supporters and ordinary people.
Generally, been a human-being rather than a teflon-coated PR spin machine. That's what I find most refreshing and much needed in our modern politics, but you can see that the press in particular struggle with it; he doesn't give them what they're used to, so they've tended to just react with dismissal. Sadly, I also think that we, the public, are so conditioned to slickness now that we find its absence jarring, which is why he probably is unelectable. Which is a shame - I think a Corbyn-led government would do a lot of good for the marginalised and dispossessed of this country, who have had a pretty raw deal under Cameron's tenure."
Are you sure: https://youtu.be/8sjiTzeJhwg
Politics is full of weasel words like 'fairness', 'inequality' and 'unity' that mean all things to all people and Corbyn is one of the worst offenders. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"He is starting to put a new one together. Given that (we assume) he had previously chosen the best people for the jobs...is he now scraping an ever decreasing barrel?
Can he appoint people fast enough to replace the continuing stream of resignations?
Will there actually be enough MPs to actually populate his shadow cabinet? The only ones left will be self-serving lick spittles.....so not likely to be up to much?
I think you are wrong in your analysis, that is understandable. As is your assumption that the original the original shadow cabinet would have been made up of the best people in the PLP.
I would suggest that far from picking the best people to deliver a credible opposition when appointing his shadow cabinet Corbyn appointed those he felt were best placed to unite the party after a hard fought leadership battle following a disastrous general election. Unfortunately for Corbyn the red tories had no intention in uniting behind their new leader and saw his attempt to include them in the cabinet as an opportunity to ferment and incite disaffection.
I just hope that he goes the whole hog and forces the red tories in the PLP reapply for their constituency nominations and that they are deselected and replaced by socialists."
Is 'Red Tories' the new term from Trotskyite's? |
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"
Blair was fucking awesome. Yeah yeah he made a mistake on Iraq,"
Indeed, in the same way that Madoff made a mistake in his accounting.
For values of "mistake" that equal deliberate immoral and illegal acts taken on the basis that there is profit to be made and no accountability to fear.
ONE MILLION people went to london to rally against the iraq war, the greatest number of citizens ever to gather for anything in the entire history of the country.
Never mind, we can always delay the chilcott report another year or so. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Blair.fail.Brown haha fail.Millibean.fail.Corbinned.fail.mmmmm se a pattern emerging?"
You show your lack of objectivity if you call a man who won 3 general elections a failure. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
Blair was fucking awesome. Yeah yeah he made a mistake on Iraq,
Indeed, in the same way that Madoff made a mistake in his accounting.
For values of "mistake" that equal deliberate immoral and illegal acts taken on the basis that there is profit to be made and no accountability to fear.
ONE MILLION people went to london to rally against the iraq war, the greatest number of citizens ever to gather for anything in the entire history of the country.
Never mind, we can always delay the chilcott report another year or so."
It's always a conspiracy with lefties, never possible that politicians are human and just make mistakes. Even when they made 7 epic decisions and 1 bad one, that last one has to be a conspiracy. |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"david milliband flies back to the UK I wonder why ?where else in the world would want him he was doing fine in the states doing what precisely?.....oh filling his pockets,of course he's a failed politician,all aboard.....the gravy train!"
Erm, actually he is working for an international charity. If you think that charity workers are on a gravy train, I'm going to bet that you have never worked for one. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Tony blair is the Labour Party's longest-serving Prime Minister, the only person to have led the Labour Party to more than two consecutive general election victories |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"david milliband flies back to the UK I wonder why ?where else in the world would want him "
He is no longer an MP so not eligible as leader!
23 out of 30 shadow cabinet gone.....17 junior ministers/pps/advisors also gone.
40 from the b-team (as others said A-team largely would not accept posts in first case).
Only z-listers left?
Regardless of your politics you have to wonder what is going on in Corbyns head just now....which way does he turn? |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"Blair.fail.Brown haha fail.Millibean.fail.Corbinned.fail.mmmmm se a pattern emerging?
You show your lack of objectivity if you call a man who won 3 general elections a failure. "
There are a lot of politicians who have failed a Lot more than Blair. |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"david milliband flies back to the UK I wonder why ?where else in the world would want him
He is no longer an MP so not eligible as leader!
23 out of 30 shadow cabinet gone.....17 junior ministers/pps/advisors also gone.
40 from the b-team (as others said A-team largely would not accept posts in first case).
Only z-listers left?
Regardless of your politics you have to wonder what is going on in Corbyns head just now....which way does he turn?"
Well I wonder if he is going to stand for Jo Cox's seat. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Corbin or tony blair as the new labour leader? The bookies have Tony as one of the favourites "
Also no longer an MO...so not eligible. So bookies will not have any odds on him. It would be like offering odds on Bew Zealand winning the Euros (football) |
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"
It's always a conspiracy with lefties, never possible that politicians are human and just make mistakes. Even when they made 7 epic decisions and 1 bad one, that last one has to be a conspiracy. "
So now I'm a "leftie" even though I was equally dismissive of Obama / Boris / "all of the above".
Waging an illegal and immoral war is not "a mistake" any more than drinking and driving until your run over a bus queue is "a mistake".
I bought a shitty cordless drill from Maplin on a sunday because it was open for 35 quid, that was "a mistake"
Same as branding someone who hold a different opinion as a leftie / righty / raycis / misogynist / neo-nazi / socialist / communist is not "a mistake" but an attempt to dehumanise the other person and this make their stated opinion invalid, after all, who cares what a (insert epithet here) thinks about subject X?
But I am magnanimous in my disgust, I do not blame Blair any more than I blame Hitler, neither could have achieved anything by themselves, rather they had millions of self interested people riding the gravy train for all it was worth. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Corbin or tony blair as the new labour leader? The bookies have Tony as one of the favourites
Also no longer an MO...so not eligible. So bookies will not have any odds on him. It would be like offering odds on Bew Zealand winning the Euros (football)"
I see, but they talked about it on lbc today tho? |
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"Tony blair is the Labour Party's longest-serving Prime Minister, the only person to have led the Labour Party to more than two consecutive general election victories "
Robert Mugabe is the longest serving leader in Zimbabwean history.
He wins elections too.
Look at the Clintons and Bushes for other examples of political longevity if you don't like references to non white tyrannical despots. |
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"It's always a conspiracy with lefties, never possible that politicians are human and just make mistakes. Even when they made 7 epic decisions and 1 bad one, that last one has to be a conspiracy. "
Blair did not make a mistake. There was a conspiracy, but not the one most think. It was a conspiracy of power. Blair even told us of it when he said that Afghanistan (and Iraq) that UK participation in the USA's war was the 'blood price' we had to pay for US economic patronage.
Blair's handling of the fallout of 9/11 can be directly compared to Harold Wilson in the 60's who said 'it was very hard to keep the UK out of Vietnam war when the US wanted us in. Its difficult to say "no" and there be no adverse repercussions, when those your saying no to own you!' (Not the direct quote as I cant find it easily but an approximation of what he said.) |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
It's always a conspiracy with lefties, never possible that politicians are human and just make mistakes. Even when they made 7 epic decisions and 1 bad one, that last one has to be a conspiracy.
So now I'm a "leftie" even though I was equally dismissive of Obama / Boris / "all of the above".
Waging an illegal and immoral war is not "a mistake" any more than drinking and driving until your run over a bus queue is "a mistake".
I bought a shitty cordless drill from Maplin on a sunday because it was open for 35 quid, that was "a mistake"
Same as branding someone who hold a different opinion as a leftie / righty / raycis / misogynist / neo-nazi / socialist / communist is not "a mistake" but an attempt to dehumanise the other person and this make their stated opinion invalid, after all, who cares what a (insert epithet here) thinks about subject X?
But I am magnanimous in my disgust, I do not blame Blair any more than I blame Hitler, neither could have achieved anything by themselves, rather they had millions of self interested people riding the gravy train for all it was worth."
You use a lot of loaded terms that presume a _iew of the world suited to a left wing interpretation.
You say it was an illegal war which assumes that there is valid organisation to prescribe international law in the first place. In truth, the UN and it's predecessor the LON have caused or complicity watched more deaths than Blair could if he was trying to surpass Hitler.
You say it was an "immoral" war. What the fuck is a moral war!? You think war is ever moral!! Ridiculous, even in WW2 we sided with genocidal communists to help beat the genocidal fascists. Morals are determined by the victor.
So yes your language betrays the fact that you don't subscribe to a realist (as opposed liberalist) _iew of the international politics. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It's always a conspiracy with lefties, never possible that politicians are human and just make mistakes. Even when they made 7 epic decisions and 1 bad one, that last one has to be a conspiracy.
Blair did not make a mistake. There was a conspiracy, but not the one most think. It was a conspiracy of power. Blair even told us of it when he said that Afghanistan (and Iraq) that UK participation in the USA's war was the 'blood price' we had to pay for US economic patronage.
Blair's handling of the fallout of 9/11 can be directly compared to Harold Wilson in the 60's who said 'it was very hard to keep the UK out of Vietnam war when the US wanted us in. Its difficult to say "no" and there be no adverse repercussions, when those your saying no to own you!' (Not the direct quote as I cant find it easily but an approximation of what he said.)"
Well that I actually agree with but that's just international poltics, there's no conspiracy there.
The real horrors of Iraq were it's failed reconstruction anyway, the war itself was incredibly successful. The post-war bit wad the corrupt element. Nobody bitches about Kosovo do they! |
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"Well that I actually agree with but that's just international poltics, there's no conspiracy there.
The real horrors of Iraq were it's failed reconstruction anyway, the war itself was incredibly successful. The post-war bit wad the corrupt element. Nobody bitches about Kosovo do they!"
We agree about a lot more than we disagree. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Well that I actually agree with but that's just international poltics, there's no conspiracy there.
The real horrors of Iraq were it's failed reconstruction anyway, the war itself was incredibly successful. The post-war bit wad the corrupt element. Nobody bitches about Kosovo do they!
We agree about a lot more than we disagree."
Democracy is a glorified popularity contest. Tell me, were the smart kids the popular ones at your school? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Since when was this thread about Bliar? He is no longer an MP. He cannot sit in Corbyns shadow cabinet, not can he come back as leader of the Labour Party!
How long will Corbyn last tho....?
Do you want him to? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"personally i think its a shame
Surely things would be better if everybody pulled together and supported each other
what happened to team work
I agree. The party pulling together would have been infinitely better.
The anti-Corbyn contingent of the Labour party has taken an opportunity for Labour to actually matter in this whole debacle and instead made a complete mess of the party. Leadership seems to be absolutely no where for any party other than the SNP.
You can't reasonably expect MPs to pull together behind someone they consider unelectable. Nobody enters politics to be in the shadow cabinet all their career.
Except for the fact that Corbyn was chosen by the people, not the politicians the people are supposed to represent.
The politicians who are anti-Corbyn would do well to remember they are supposed to work for us and represent what we want.
I am staunchly behind Corbyn and believe he's one of the few moral politicians out there today.
Labour need to be doing something different. They've become the Tory Party Lite, full of politicians there to feather their own nests and take advantage of the gravy train.
If Corbyn is driven out, Labour will lose my respect. Democracy should be about what the electorate want and the electorate made it clear they want Corbyn at the helm."
So with these sentiments,The Labour party should of listened to it surporters and backed a leave vote. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Since when was this thread about Bliar?"
I hesitate to remind you that he was the last Labour leader to win a GE and the party keeps going left and left of him and losing... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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As a life long member of the Labour party and worked on far to many elections than I care to remember. This is nothing new .
The seventies I am told were like this and I remember the eighties . My father pulling his hair out to keep the local part together.
We are a jolly broad church in the Labour party and at times our own worst enemy.
We need unity , but that will never come with out strong leadership. There will be an enmass exit from party membership if Corbyn is ousted. Roughly the same amount of members who joined when he became leader.
I organised local and assembly elections and the new members were nowhere to be seen! They do like posting on facebook and pontificating at meetings .
Taff
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"As a life long member of the Labour party and worked on far to many elections than I care to remember. This is nothing new .
The seventies I am told were like this and I remember the eighties . My father pulling his hair out to keep the local part together.
We are a jolly broad church in the Labour party and at times our own worst enemy.
We need unity , but that will never come with out strong leadership. There will be an enmass exit from party membership if Corbyn is ousted. Roughly the same amount of members who joined when he became leader.
I organised local and assembly elections and the new members were nowhere to be seen! They do like posting on facebook and pontificating at meetings .
Taff
"
The 70's were possibly the worst peace time decade since... |
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"I really like Corbyn and think he does epitomise something we need in this country: a less bullshitty way of doing politics. Unfortunately, the country doesn't appear to be ready for that yet, and he is, still, unelectable. I think that's a poorer reflection on our culture than on him personally though.
I'd have thought we'd had enough of PR-slick teflon politicians after Blair and Cameron, and would rather have thoughtful and intelligent politicians who don't rise to soundbite-seeking questions from journalists who just want to sell a paper or gain a scoop, but sadly it seems we still live in an age when Murdoch and his cronies get to decide what we think. It'd be nice to think we could vote in a slightly more intelligent and grown-up way, but the reality seems to be that all the next Labour really needs to make sure of is that they don't look stupid eating a bacon sandwich. "
I could kiss you! This is exactly how myself and a few others think about Corbyn too |
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"
So yes your language betrays the fact that you don't subscribe to a realist (as opposed liberalist) _iew of the international politics. "
Just because my language does not conform to YOUR world _iew does not mean that I am not a realist.
As a very widely travelled skilled working individual I have lived and worked in many of the countries we now discuss, yet my opinions and observations are somehow not realist.
I have a first cousin who is in my opinion and utterly despicable little shit, (this is based upon things he has done of record) I refuse to even speak to the cunt or acknowledge his existence, yet I do not do the blood is thicker than water thing and accept him anyway as one of our own.
Us real realists reserve our harshest judgements for ourselves.
Democracy is merely better than all the alternatives, as the man said in the video that I linked to in another thread, be careful, the worst day of peace is so much better than the best day of war.
The problem we have today is the majority of those voting and commenting have only the worst day of peace as their low water mark for how bad things can get, so their decisions and assumptions that "anything is better than this" while true for them personally and their experiences, are also deeply flawed opinions.
Consider, democracy is the only system of government that enshrines within the core of itself to make itself redundant.
You can vote to end democracy. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
So yes your language betrays the fact that you don't subscribe to a realist (as opposed liberalist) _iew of the international politics.
Just because my language does not conform to YOUR world _iew does not mean that I am not a realist.
"
Just to be clear, you're saying you are a realist? As in your a fan of the likes of Mearsheimer, Walt, Machiavelli etc?
You definately saw the line where I said "realist (as opposed to liberalist)"?
You understand that it's not an insult to say someone isn't a realist? |
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"Democracy is a glorified popularity contest. Tell me, were the smart kids the popular ones at your school? "
In my first secondary school smart was cool, but then my first secondary school was Rockwell College and is one or Ireland's premier private schools and on a par with any in the world.
My second secondary school was an English state school and a culture shock! There the most important and popular pupils were those who made the football team and top of the list were the two who signed schoolboy papers with professional clubs. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Democracy is a glorified popularity contest. Tell me, were the smart kids the popular ones at your school?
In my first secondary school smart was cool, but then my first secondary school was Rockwell College and is one or Ireland's premier private schools and on a par with any in the world.
My second secondary school was an English state school and a culture shock! There the most important and popular pupils were those who made the football team and top of the list were the two who signed schoolboy papers with professional clubs."
Well fuck me sideways. I had you down as a looney lefty and there you go perfectly articulating the real difference between private and state schools!! But how on earth do you reconcile that with Mr Corbyn who wants to drag everyone down to the level of popularity based on football goals? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"As a life long member of the Labour party and worked on far to many elections than I care to remember. This is nothing new .
The seventies I am told were like this and I remember the eighties . My father pulling his hair out to keep the local part together.
We are a jolly broad church in the Labour party and at times our own worst enemy.
We need unity , but that will never come with out strong leadership. There will be an enmass exit from party membership if Corbyn is ousted. Roughly the same amount of members who joined when he became leader.
I organised local and assembly elections and the new members were nowhere to be seen! They do like posting on facebook and pontificating at meetings .
Taff
"
Absolutely this Taff!
When Corbyn was first elected a whole host of them started attending my local ward meetings wanting to talk about Worker's Rights in Chile and the problems faced by animal rights activists in Romania. They had no interest in the lives of local people in the ward and their problems.
Those people have disappeared not back to their SWP debating societies and were nowhere to be seen in either the local elections or the Referendum.
They are keyboard/textbook warriors.
I prey that Jeremy does the decent thing and resigns or the party could be in real danger of becoming a student wankathon |
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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago
The Council of Elrond |
So if the mp's manage to force Corbyn out and he puts his name forward to be Labour leader again and once again the members elect him what next ? They will be a laughing stock they already are here in Scotland and if that did happen that the members vote for him to be leader again then i would say they will become a bigger laughing stock |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"As a life long member of the Labour party and worked on far to many elections than I care to remember. This is nothing new .
The seventies I am told were like this and I remember the eighties . My father pulling his hair out to keep the local part together.
We are a jolly broad church in the Labour party and at times our own worst enemy.
We need unity , but that will never come with out strong leadership. There will be an enmass exit from party membership if Corbyn is ousted. Roughly the same amount of members who joined when he became leader.
I organised local and assembly elections and the new members were nowhere to be seen! They do like posting on facebook and pontificating at meetings .
Taff
Absolutely this Taff!
When Corbyn was first elected a whole host of them started attending my local ward meetings wanting to talk about Worker's Rights in Chile and the problems faced by animal rights activists in Romania. They had no interest in the lives of local people in the ward and their problems.
Those people have disappeared not back to their SWP debating societies and were nowhere to be seen in either the local elections or the Referendum.
They are keyboard/textbook warriors.
I prey that Jeremy does the decent thing and resigns or the party could be in real danger of becoming a student wankathon "
If there's a politics section in the next fab awards then I'm voting this one for post of the year |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"So if the mp's manage to force Corbyn out and he puts his name forward to be Labour leader again and once again the members elect him what next ? They will be a laughing stock they already are here in Scotland and if that did happen that the members vote for him to be leader again then i would say they will become a bigger laughing stock"
I genuinely believe the party HAS to find a way to stop that happening, by fair means or foul. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"So if the mp's manage to force Corbyn out and he puts his name forward to be Labour leader again and once again the members elect him what next ? They will be a laughing stock they already are here in Scotland and if that did happen that the members vote for him to be leader again then i would say they will become a bigger laughing stock
I genuinely believe the party HAS to find a way to stop that happening, by fair means or foul."
Foul 
Are you suggesting what I think you're suggesting |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"So if the mp's manage to force Corbyn out and he puts his name forward to be Labour leader again and once again the members elect him what next ? They will be a laughing stock they already are here in Scotland and if that did happen that the members vote for him to be leader again then i would say they will become a bigger laughing stock
I genuinely believe the party HAS to find a way to stop that happening, by fair means or foul.
Foul
Are you suggesting what I think you're suggesting "
Haha I don't think so!
I was referring to some kind of legal loophole, not the David Kelly Nuclear Option |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"So if the mp's manage to force Corbyn out and he puts his name forward to be Labour leader again and once again the members elect him what next ? They will be a laughing stock they already are here in Scotland and if that did happen that the members vote for him to be leader again then i would say they will become a bigger laughing stock
I genuinely believe the party HAS to find a way to stop that happening, by fair means or foul.
Foul
Are you suggesting what I think you're suggesting
Haha I don't think so!
I was referring to some kind of legal loophole, not the David Kelly Nuclear Option "
Ah ok! Even I don't want Corbyn dead... someone has to keep Diane Abbott warm at night |
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Democracy is a glorified popularity contest. Tell me, were the smart kids the popular ones at your school?
In my first secondary school smart was cool, but then my first secondary school was Rockwell College and is one or Ireland's premier private schools and on a par with any in the world.
My second secondary school was an English state school and a culture shock! There the most important and popular pupils were those who made the football team and top of the list were the two who signed schoolboy papers with professional clubs.
"Well fuck me sideways. I had you down as a looney lefty and there you go perfectly articulating the real difference between private and state schools!! But how on earth do you reconcile that with Mr Corbyn who wants to drag everyone down to the level of popularity based on football goals? "
I am a socialist.
I was taught that you don't pull and push those around you down, you pull and lift them up, and they will do the same for you in turn.
I find the creed of 'greed is good' that we have been living with for the last 37 years to be extremely flawed and benefits none but the obnoxiously rich and powerful who are becoming more and more corrupt as their wealth and power expands. I believe that if we are to avoid another collapse of civilisation as happened in the 5th century our (western) politics need to move radically to the left with a rebalancing of wealth from the minority to the majority. I think Corbyn may be our best chance of a move in that direction at the moment. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Democracy is a glorified popularity contest. Tell me, were the smart kids the popular ones at your school?
In my first secondary school smart was cool, but then my first secondary school was Rockwell College and is one or Ireland's premier private schools and on a par with any in the world.
My second secondary school was an English state school and a culture shock! There the most important and popular pupils were those who made the football team and top of the list were the two who signed schoolboy papers with professional clubs.
Well fuck me sideways. I had you down as a looney lefty and there you go perfectly articulating the real difference between private and state schools!! But how on earth do you reconcile that with Mr Corbyn who wants to drag everyone down to the level of popularity based on football goals?
I am a socialist.
I was taught that you don't pull and push those around you down, you pull and lift them up, and they will do the same for you in turn.
I find the creed of 'greed is good' that we have been living with for the last 37 years to be extremely flawed and benefits none but the obnoxiously rich and powerful who are becoming more and more corrupt as their wealth and power expands. I believe that if we are to avoid another collapse of civilisation as happened in the 5th century our (western) politics need to move radically to the left with a rebalancing of wealth from the minority to the majority. I think Corbyn may be our best chance of a move in that direction at the moment."
If you want free choices then some people make incredibly bad ones that usually involve a variety of addictions and unsustainable life choices. It's usually their children who are corrupted by their circumstances and nevertheless drag their school down. Unfortunately those kids are normally emotionally wrecked before they even start secondary school.
There's no real way to deal with the situation. Either people have the freedom to fuck up their lives or they don't. But as long as they do then most normal people will do anything to distance themselves from the chaos that inevitably surrounds them.
FYI: We rented on one of the worst streets in our city to save money for 2 years so I'm not saying this from a theoretical standpoint. |
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"Democracy is a glorified popularity contest. Tell me, were the smart kids the popular ones at your school?"
In my first secondary school smart was cool, but then my first secondary school was Rockwell College and is one or Ireland's premier private schools and on a par with any in the world.
My second secondary school was an English state school and a culture shock! There the most important and popular pupils were those who made the football team and top of the list were the two who signed schoolboy papers with professional clubs.
"Well fuck me sideways. I had you down as a looney lefty and there you go perfectly articulating the real difference between private and state schools!! But how on earth do you reconcile that with Mr Corbyn who wants to drag everyone down to the level of popularity based on football goals?"
I am a socialist.
I was taught that you don't pull and push those around you down, you pull and lift them up, and they will do the same for you in turn.
I find the creed of 'greed is good' that we have been living with for the last 37 years to be extremely flawed and benefits none but the obnoxiously rich and powerful who are becoming more and more corrupt as their wealth and power expands. I believe that if we are to avoid another collapse of civilisation as happened in the 5th century our (western) politics need to move radically to the left with a rebalancing of wealth from the minority to the majority. I think Corbyn may be our best chance of a move in that direction at the moment.
"If you want free choices then some people make incredibly bad ones that usually involve a variety of addictions and unsustainable life choices. It's usually their children who are corrupted by their circumstances and nevertheless drag their school down. Unfortunately those kids are normally emotionally wrecked before they even start secondary school.
There's no real way to deal with the situation. Either people have the freedom to fuck up their lives or they don't. But as long as they do then most normal people will do anything to distance themselves from the chaos that inevitably surrounds them.
FYI: We rented on one of the worst streets in our city to save money for 2 years so I'm not saying this from a theoretical standpoint."
Again I agree that many people make bad decision, and that most people that are screwed up are screwed up by their parents and environment.
However I would part company with you after that. I believe that most addictions are due to the lack of knowledge and education. I believe that prohibition, not addiction is the problem. We know that prohibition gives organised criminal gangs opportunity to make money by supplying need. We know that acholol prohibition in the USA led to the growth of the mafia and that 100 years on from that the USA is still recovering from the results of the 18th amendment. We know that the 1970 US federal drug law gave the DEA powers to size assist of all countries that did not enact its drug laws and started the 'drugs war'. We know that in the 46 years the growth of organised drugs crime worldwide has been exponential. We also know that the US have a Luddite approach to anything that means admitting they got it wrong and a history of repeating the same mistakes over and over again, just this time the whole world gets to pay for their puritanism (and with that we are back to Harold Wilson and Tony Blair and their observations about paying the US 'blood price' or not.
I believe the solution is education rather than prohibition. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Democracy is a glorified popularity contest. Tell me, were the smart kids the popular ones at your school?
In my first secondary school smart was cool, but then my first secondary school was Rockwell College and is one or Ireland's premier private schools and on a par with any in the world.
My second secondary school was an English state school and a culture shock! There the most important and popular pupils were those who made the football team and top of the list were the two who signed schoolboy papers with professional clubs.
Well fuck me sideways. I had you down as a looney lefty and there you go perfectly articulating the real difference between private and state schools!! But how on earth do you reconcile that with Mr Corbyn who wants to drag everyone down to the level of popularity based on football goals?
I am a socialist.
I was taught that you don't pull and push those around you down, you pull and lift them up, and they will do the same for you in turn.
I find the creed of 'greed is good' that we have been living with for the last 37 years to be extremely flawed and benefits none but the obnoxiously rich and powerful who are becoming more and more corrupt as their wealth and power expands. I believe that if we are to avoid another collapse of civilisation as happened in the 5th century our (western) politics need to move radically to the left with a rebalancing of wealth from the minority to the majority. I think Corbyn may be our best chance of a move in that direction at the moment.
If you want free choices then some people make incredibly bad ones that usually involve a variety of addictions and unsustainable life choices. It's usually their children who are corrupted by their circumstances and nevertheless drag their school down. Unfortunately those kids are normally emotionally wrecked before they even start secondary school.
There's no real way to deal with the situation. Either people have the freedom to fuck up their lives or they don't. But as long as they do then most normal people will do anything to distance themselves from the chaos that inevitably surrounds them.
FYI: We rented on one of the worst streets in our city to save money for 2 years so I'm not saying this from a theoretical standpoint.
Again I agree that many people make bad decision, and that most people that are screwed up are screwed up by their parents and environment.
However I would part company with you after that. I believe that most addictions are due to the lack of knowledge and education. I believe that prohibition, not addiction is the problem. We know that prohibition gives organised criminal gangs opportunity to make money by supplying need. We know that acholol prohibition in the USA led to the growth of the mafia and that 100 years on from that the USA is still recovering from the results of the 18th amendment. We know that the 1970 US federal drug law gave the DEA powers to size assist of all countries that did not enact its drug laws and started the 'drugs war'. We know that in the 46 years the growth of organised drugs crime worldwide has been exponential. We also know that the US have a Luddite approach to anything that means admitting they got it wrong and a history of repeating the same mistakes over and over again, just this time the whole world gets to pay for their puritanism (and with that we are back to Harold Wilson and Tony Blair and their observations about paying the US 'blood price' or not.
I believe the solution is education rather than prohibition."
Do you honestly believe that some people don't realise that drugs are bad m'kay?
What possible use could a heroin addict be to society? |
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The problem is that Labour are led by a Tory government.
They had no need to campaign in the Scottish referendum. That was up to the government of the day, but they did so anyway and voters turned against them.
It's the same with the EU ref. Supporting alongside the government of the day so that voters see no difference between them and the Tories. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"As a life long member of the Labour party and worked on far to many elections than I care to remember. This is nothing new .
The seventies I am told were like this and I remember the eighties . My father pulling his hair out to keep the local part together.
We are a jolly broad church in the Labour party and at times our own worst enemy.
We need unity , but that will never come with out strong leadership. There will be an enmass exit from party membership if Corbyn is ousted. Roughly the same amount of members who joined when he became leader.
I organised local and assembly elections and the new members were nowhere to be seen! They do like posting on facebook and pontificating at meetings .
Taff
Absolutely this Taff!
When Corbyn was first elected a whole host of them started attending my local ward meetings wanting to talk about Worker's Rights in Chile and the problems faced by animal rights activists in Romania. They had no interest in the lives of local people in the ward and their problems.
Those people have disappeared not back to their SWP debating societies and were nowhere to be seen in either the local elections or the Referendum.
They are keyboard/textbook warriors.
I prey that Jeremy does the decent thing and resigns or the party could be in real danger of becoming a student wankathon "
yes they came caused chaos accused members of being this that or the other and not true socialists then disappeared when we needed doors knocking or leaflets delivering . they didn't like the hard work , I have stopped going to meetings because of them |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The problem is that Labour are led by a Tory government.
They had no need to campaign in the Scottish referendum. That was up to the government of the day, but they did so anyway and voters turned against them.
It's the same with the EU ref. Supporting alongside the government of the day so that voters see no difference between them and the Tories. "
You have to be pretty low down the IQ scale to miss the differences between Corbyn and Cameron! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"As a life long member of the Labour party and worked on far to many elections than I care to remember. This is nothing new .
The seventies I am told were like this and I remember the eighties . My father pulling his hair out to keep the local part together.
We are a jolly broad church in the Labour party and at times our own worst enemy.
We need unity , but that will never come with out strong leadership. There will be an enmass exit from party membership if Corbyn is ousted. Roughly the same amount of members who joined when he became leader.
I organised local and assembly elections and the new members were nowhere to be seen! They do like posting on facebook and pontificating at meetings .
Taff
Absolutely this Taff!
When Corbyn was first elected a whole host of them started attending my local ward meetings wanting to talk about Worker's Rights in Chile and the problems faced by animal rights activists in Romania. They had no interest in the lives of local people in the ward and their problems.
Those people have disappeared not back to their SWP debating societies and were nowhere to be seen in either the local elections or the Referendum.
They are keyboard/textbook warriors.
I prey that Jeremy does the decent thing and resigns or the party could be in real danger of becoming a student wankathon
yes they came caused chaos accused members of being this that or the other and not true socialists then disappeared when we needed doors knocking or leaflets delivering . they didn't like the hard work , I have stopped going to meetings because of them "
People prefer whinging to hard work - who knew |
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"Democracy is a glorified popularity contest. Tell me, were the smart kids the popular ones at your school?
In my first secondary school smart was cool, but then my first secondary school was Rockwell College and is one or Ireland's premier private schools and on a par with any in the world.
My second secondary school was an English state school and a culture shock! There the most important and popular pupils were those who made the football team and top of the list were the two who signed schoolboy papers with professional clubs.
Well fuck me sideways. I had you down as a looney lefty and there you go perfectly articulating the real difference between private and state schools!! But how on earth do you reconcile that with Mr Corbyn who wants to drag everyone down to the level of popularity based on football goals?
I am a socialist.
I was taught that you don't pull and push those around you down, you pull and lift them up, and they will do the same for you in turn.
I find the creed of 'greed is good' that we have been living with for the last 37 years to be extremely flawed and benefits none but the obnoxiously rich and powerful who are becoming more and more corrupt as their wealth and power expands. I believe that if we are to avoid another collapse of civilisation as happened in the 5th century our (western) politics need to move radically to the left with a rebalancing of wealth from the minority to the majority. I think Corbyn may be our best chance of a move in that direction at the moment."
I admire your goals and i agree that society should be more equal. It should protect those that need it and enable those that can, too achieve.
However, where we will disagree is that JC is remotely able to deliver on this. He has proven himself to be a failure in leading his own people, has failed to support Remain (which would have been better for the poorer parts of society) and has caused internecine rivalry in his own party. Is he a Tory plant? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Democracy is a glorified popularity contest. Tell me, were the smart kids the popular ones at your school?
In my first secondary school smart was cool, but then my first secondary school was Rockwell College and is one or Ireland's premier private schools and on a par with any in the world.
My second secondary school was an English state school and a culture shock! There the most important and popular pupils were those who made the football team and top of the list were the two who signed schoolboy papers with professional clubs.
Well fuck me sideways. I had you down as a looney lefty and there you go perfectly articulating the real difference between private and state schools!! But how on earth do you reconcile that with Mr Corbyn who wants to drag everyone down to the level of popularity based on football goals?
I am a socialist.
I was taught that you don't pull and push those around you down, you pull and lift them up, and they will do the same for you in turn.
I find the creed of 'greed is good' that we have been living with for the last 37 years to be extremely flawed and benefits none but the obnoxiously rich and powerful who are becoming more and more corrupt as their wealth and power expands. I believe that if we are to avoid another collapse of civilisation as happened in the 5th century our (western) politics need to move radically to the left with a rebalancing of wealth from the minority to the majority. I think Corbyn may be our best chance of a move in that direction at the moment.
I admire your goals and i agree that society should be more equal. It should protect those that need it and enable those that can, too achieve.
However, where we will disagree is that JC is remotely able to deliver on this. He has proven himself to be a failure in leading his own people, has failed to support Remain (which would have been better for the poorer parts of society) and has caused internecine rivalry in his own party. Is he a Tory plant?"
Simple answer. Yes. Lots of tories tried to register as labour members to vote him in and lots of Tories are delighted by his performance. He also has no interest in supporting those with ambition, other than taxing them to death as punishment for putting their head above the parapet |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"david milliband flies back to the UK I wonder why ?where else in the world would want him he was doing fine in the states doing what precisely?.....oh filling his pockets,of course he's a failed politician,all aboard.....the gravy train!
Erm, actually he is working for an international charity. If you think that charity workers are on a gravy train, I'm going to bet that you have never worked for one."
working???? Dont think he'd be out with a collecting tin on street corners,or doing anything useful,unless attending champagne soirees n gladhanding with other non entity celebs n failed politicians is called work these days,and your correct I neither have,nor would want to work for a so called 'charity' |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"david milliband flies back to the UK I wonder why ?where else in the world would want him he was doing fine in the states doing what precisely?.....oh filling his pockets,of course he's a failed politician,all aboard.....the gravy train!
Erm, actually he is working for an international charity. If you think that charity workers are on a gravy train, I'm going to bet that you have never worked for one.working???? Dont think he'd be out with a collecting tin on street corners,or doing anything useful,unless attending champagne soirees n gladhanding with other non entity celebs n failed politicians is called work these days,and your correct I neither have,nor would want to work for a so called 'charity' "
Yeah its easy work being a CEO, all these companies paying big money to them are just mugs |
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Just got in to see rather than do the decent thing for his party he has dug his heels in and is busy appointing replacements including Diane Abbott a more repugnant politician is hard to find I'd say shed kill her own grandmother if it gave her power but that would be too kind shed kill her own kids
I understand Ronald Mcdonald, the hamburger and the teletubbies are currently out of work maybe he could recruit them |
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"Just got in to see rather than do the decent thing for his party he has dug his heels in and is busy appointing replacements including Diane Abbott a more repugnant politician is hard to find I'd say shed kill her own grandmother if it gave her power but that would be too kind shed kill her own kids
I understand Ronald Mcdonald, the hamburger and the teletubbies are currently out of work maybe he could recruit them "
Ronald McDonald is already the Shadow Chancellor...  |
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"Just got in to see rather than do the decent thing for his party he has dug his heels in and is busy appointing replacements including Diane Abbott a more repugnant politician is hard to find I'd say shed kill her own grandmother if it gave her power but that would be too kind shed kill her own kids
I understand Ronald Mcdonald, the hamburger and the teletubbies are currently out of work maybe he could recruit them
Ronald McDonald is already the Shadow Chancellor... "
,I want the hamburgler for chancellor.. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If Gisela Stuart was Labour Leader, I would start to vote for Labour again, she has proven herself and is a well established, level headed lady
.
she would get my vote
"
I personally like Corbyn, and I feel as though the Blarite side of the party who were hugely pro-remain are out of touch with traditional labour voters. If however they succeed in getting another leadership contest, and corbyn is not put forward or is't perceived to do well in it, and she does, I'd support her. Her stance in the EU referendum might get a strong backing from disenfranchised labour voters. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Labour had a very small opertunity to galvanise themselves as the the party that was united that was working on a sound plan for the future regarding brexit.
And possibly have a chanc ein an early GE or at least been a powerful opposition.
Instead theyve fucked it with petty in fighting and are now just a bit of a laughing stock and taken the heat off the conservatives |
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I think JC has behaved correctly throughout the referendum. He is in opposition, not power. The Tories were voted in, it was up to them to deliver on 'Brexit' and on what happens now. He has bided his time and now had the chance to get rid of those who would and have stabbed him in the back. People liken him to Obi Wan and he is, "striking me down will make me more powerful than you can possibly imagine." I think he has played a blinder and will continue and go v far. |
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"I think JC has behaved correctly throughout the referendum. He is in opposition, not power. The Tories were voted in, it was up to them to deliver on 'Brexit' and on what happens now. He has bided his time and now had the chance to get rid of those who would and have stabbed him in the back. People liken him to Obi Wan and he is, "striking me down will make me more powerful than you can possibly imagine." I think he has played a blinder and will continue and go v far."
...probably back into the margins |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I think JC has behaved correctly throughout the referendum. He is in opposition, not power. The Tories were voted in, it was up to them to deliver on 'Brexit' and on what happens now. He has bided his time and now had the chance to get rid of those who would and have stabbed him in the back. People liken him to Obi Wan and he is, "striking me down will make me more powerful than you can possibly imagine." I think he has played a blinder and will continue and go v far.
...probably back into the margins"
I don't know, many people I know who are left to centre and who voted remain and leave said that Corbyn was in an understandably difficult spot. His party wanted him to back remain and he was listening to the younger members a lot as atm I think he is probably the politician with them most under 25 support.Yet he's always had issues with the EU.
S what was he to do, lie and go against his previous statements and his character in regards to being moderately sceptical of the EU?
Cause a lot of out voters I know now think he is what labour needs at least as opposition. A traditional and experienced labour man, who was kissing the EU's ass - he is in a far better position to bring back traditional labour heartlands than a lot of other candidates. |
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"I think JC has behaved correctly throughout the referendum. He is in opposition, not power. The Tories were voted in, it was up to them to deliver on 'Brexit' and on what happens now. He has bided his time and now had the chance to get rid of those who would and have stabbed him in the back. People liken him to Obi Wan and he is, "striking me down will make me more powerful than you can possibly imagine." I think he has played a blinder and will continue and go v far.
...probably back into the margins
I don't know, many people I know who are left to centre and who voted remain and leave said that Corbyn was in an understandably difficult spot. His party wanted him to back remain and he was listening to the younger members a lot as atm I think he is probably the politician with them most under 25 support.Yet he's always had issues with the EU.
S what was he to do, lie and go against his previous statements and his character in regards to being moderately sceptical of the EU?
Cause a lot of out voters I know now think he is what labour needs at least as opposition. A traditional and experienced labour man, who was kissing the EU's ass - he is in a far better position to bring back traditional labour heartlands than a lot of other candidates."
This is the man who voted against more Labour policies than any other in the past 30 yeas, who cannot lead his way out of a paper bag and needs John McDonnell to speak for him!? JC is a joke and no more represents heartland Labour than Trump does! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I think JC has behaved correctly throughout the referendum. He is in opposition, not power. The Tories were voted in, it was up to them to deliver on 'Brexit' and on what happens now. He has bided his time and now had the chance to get rid of those who would and have stabbed him in the back. People liken him to Obi Wan and he is, "striking me down will make me more powerful than you can possibly imagine." I think he has played a blinder and will continue and go v far.
...probably back into the margins
I don't know, many people I know who are left to centre and who voted remain and leave said that Corbyn was in an understandably difficult spot. His party wanted him to back remain and he was listening to the younger members a lot as atm I think he is probably the politician with them most under 25 support.Yet he's always had issues with the EU.
S what was he to do, lie and go against his previous statements and his character in regards to being moderately sceptical of the EU?
Cause a lot of out voters I know now think he is what labour needs at least as opposition. A traditional and experienced labour man, who was kissing the EU's ass - he is in a far better position to bring back traditional labour heartlands than a lot of other candidates.
This is the man who voted against more Labour policies than any other in the past 30 yeas, who cannot lead his way out of a paper bag and needs John McDonnell to speak for him!? JC is a joke and no more represents heartland Labour than Trump does! "
Really? A lot of people believe otherwise, mind, a lot of people may have their other favourites. Just curious what did he vote against? |
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"Do you honestly believe that some people don't realise that drugs are bad m'kay?
What possible use could a heroin addict be to society? "
I think you miss the point of what I am saying.
As far as I know all mammals use alkaloid stimulants and narcotics (some become addicted) and some not. However the real damage is done by the prohibition of substances by those looking to exercise control for the sake of 'profit' as it seems to never be profitable for society in general. n fact I would suggest that prohibition is a very expensive waste of time. |
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"personally i think its a shame
Surely things would be better if everybody pulled together and supported each other
what happened to team work "
If he'd done is bit in the remain campaign he would probably be OK now, as would we all. But he didn't, in fact quite the opposite, he actually undermined the official Labour In campaign and there is even a rumour spreading through the PLP and wider party that he actually voted Leave. |
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"I think JC has behaved correctly throughout the referendum. He is in opposition, not power. The Tories were voted in, it was up to them to deliver on 'Brexit' and on what happens now. He has bided his time and now had the chance to get rid of those who would and have stabbed him in the back. People liken him to Obi Wan and he is, "striking me down will make me more powerful than you can possibly imagine." I think he has played a blinder and will continue and go v far.
...probably back into the margins
I don't know, many people I know who are left to centre and who voted remain and leave said that Corbyn was in an understandably difficult spot. His party wanted him to back remain and he was listening to the younger members a lot as atm I think he is probably the politician with them most under 25 support.Yet he's always had issues with the EU.
S what was he to do, lie and go against his previous statements and his character in regards to being moderately sceptical of the EU?
Cause a lot of out voters I know now think he is what labour needs at least as opposition. A traditional and experienced labour man, who was kissing the EU's ass - he is in a far better position to bring back traditional labour heartlands than a lot of other candidates.
This is the man who voted against more Labour policies than any other in the past 30 yeas, who cannot lead his way out of a paper bag and needs John McDonnell to speak for him!? JC is a joke and no more represents heartland Labour than Trump does!
Really? A lot of people believe otherwise, mind, a lot of people may have their other favourites. Just curious what did he vote against?"
You forget that JC was voted in by a lot of people who historically weren't Labour members. Momentum is a party within a party. Most MPs were voted for by an electorate who would never vote for a JC party, other than they are historically Labour voters The role of the leader of the opposition is not to moan, but to build a credible alternative to the party in powere - JC does not do this in any way. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Do you honestly believe that some people don't realise that drugs are bad m'kay?
What possible use could a heroin addict be to society?
I think you miss the point of what I am saying.
As far as I know all mammals use alkaloid stimulants and narcotics (some become addicted) and some not. However the real damage is done by the prohibition of substances by those looking to exercise control for the sake of 'profit' as it seems to never be profitable for society in general. n fact I would suggest that prohibition is a very expensive waste of time."
You know full well that the harm done by heroin is physical and mental, not arbitrary because of its price |
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"personally i think its a shame
Surely things would be better if everybody pulled together and supported each other
what happened to team work
I agree. The party pulling together would have been infinitely better.
The anti-Corbyn contingent of the Labour party has taken an opportunity for Labour to actually matter in this whole debacle and instead made a complete mess of the party. Leadership seems to be absolutely no where for any party other than the SNP.
You can't reasonably expect MPs to pull together behind someone they consider unelectable. Nobody enters politics to be in the shadow cabinet all their career.
I can reasonably expect MPs to pull together behind their party leader - yes. They are making their own beds. If they were unified they might have a chance at being electable. As it is, they look incompetent. "
Sorry but Corbyn is totally unelectable. He's had his chance and failed. Personally I'd like to see him stay around but for all the wrong reasons for anyone who wants to see a labour government. |
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"You know full well that the harm done by heroin is physical and mental, not arbitrary because of its price "
Not really, I know that street heroin which is cut with all sorts of poisons harms people. As far as I know medical diamorphine is concerned I know it causes dependency by turning off the production of endomorphs (been there after an injury), but I don't know of any physical harm that it does. Maybe you could elaborate.
On a slightly different note I just signed the petition, "TUC: Labour Members and Affliated Unions press for mandatory reselection of MPs."
I think this is important. Will you sign it too?
Here's the link:
https://www.change.org/p/tuc-labour-members-and-affliated-unions-press-for-mandatory-reselection-of-mps
Thanks |
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"personally i think its a shame
Surely things would be better if everybody pulled together and supported each other
what happened to team work
I agree. The party pulling together would have been infinitely better.
The anti-Corbyn contingent of the Labour party has taken an opportunity for Labour to actually matter in this whole debacle and instead made a complete mess of the party. Leadership seems to be absolutely no where for any party other than the SNP.
You can't reasonably expect MPs to pull together behind someone they consider unelectable. Nobody enters politics to be in the shadow cabinet all their career.
Except for the fact that Corbyn was chosen by the people, not the politicians the people are supposed to represent.
The politicians who are anti-Corbyn would do well to remember they are supposed to work for us and represent what we want.
I am staunchly behind Corbyn and believe he's one of the few moral politicians out there today.
Labour need to be doing something different. They've become the Tory Party Lite, full of politicians there to feather their own nests and take advantage of the gravy train.
If Corbyn is driven out, Labour will lose my respect. Democracy should be about what the electorate want and the electorate made it clear they want Corbyn at the helm."
But that electorate that voted for Corbyn is Labour party members and does not represent very accurately the wider electorate. If labour can come up with a good leader now and the Tories elect BoJo for their leader then, because a lot of middle of the road Tory voters will never forgive BoJo for dragging us out of Europe, they could possibly make headway, even win.
The Labour membership has to decide, and quickly, if they want to stand a chance of actually winning the next election or not. A vote for Corbyn is a vote to loose. |
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"
Yeah its not like he'd refuse to campaign for the referendum side he believed in is it
Corbyn has always said there are problems with the EU, but if you listened to him, he listed plenty of reasons why he felt being in was still better than being out. People have vilified him for saying he was "7, maybe 7.5 out of 10 for the EU", but actually, I think most Remain voters were the same. I certainly was. I doubt you'd find anyone who would give the EU 10 out of 10. It needs reform (whether we're in it or not), and to me, that's pretty much what 7.5/10 means.
You can criticise him for his lack of charisma, for not geeing-up the Remain lobby etc., but I don't think he was dishonest about his _iew of the EU."
But a lot of people in the PLP do. They're literally spitting their own teeth with anger. |
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"He is starting to put a new one together. Given that (we assume) he had previously chosen the best people for the jobs...is he now scraping an ever decreasing barrel?
Can he appoint people fast enough to replace the continuing stream of resignations?
Will there actually be enough MPs to actually populate his shadow cabinet? The only ones left will be self-serving lick spittles.....so not likely to be up to much?
I think you are wrong in your analysis, that is understandable. As is your assumption that the original the original shadow cabinet would have been made up of the best people in the PLP.
I would suggest that far from picking the best people to deliver a credible opposition when appointing his shadow cabinet Corbyn appointed those he felt were best placed to unite the party after a hard fought leadership battle following a disastrous general election. Unfortunately for Corbyn the red tories had no intention in uniting behind their new leader and saw his attempt to include them in the cabinet as an opportunity to ferment and incite disaffection.
I just hope that he goes the whole hog and forces the red tories in the PLP reapply for their constituency nominations and that they are deselected and replaced by socialists."
Up until Friday morning I'd have said "I hope so" but now I'm not so sure I want the party that is mostly responsible for responsible for the worst economic and social disaster to hit not only Britain but European to to remain in power for the next 10 to 20 years.
It's all very well liking Corbyn but he's totally unacceptable to anyone who's not pretty far to the left already and, as such, has no chance of bringing Labour electoral victory. |
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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago
Hereford |
"I think JC has behaved correctly throughout the referendum. He is in opposition, not power. The Tories were voted in, it was up to them to deliver on 'Brexit' and on what happens now. He has bided his time and now had the chance to get rid of those who would and have stabbed him in the back. People liken him to Obi Wan and he is, "striking me down will make me more powerful than you can possibly imagine." I think he has played a blinder and will continue and go v far.
...probably back into the margins
I don't know, many people I know who are left to centre and who voted remain and leave said that Corbyn was in an understandably difficult spot. His party wanted him to back remain and he was listening to the younger members a lot as atm I think he is probably the politician with them most under 25 support.Yet he's always had issues with the EU.
S what was he to do, lie and go against his previous statements and his character in regards to being moderately sceptical of the EU?
Cause a lot of out voters I know now think he is what labour needs at least as opposition. A traditional and experienced labour man, who was kissing the EU's ass - he is in a far better position to bring back traditional labour heartlands than a lot of other candidates.
This is the man who voted against more Labour policies than any other in the past 30 yeas, who cannot lead his way out of a paper bag and needs John McDonnell to speak for him!? JC is a joke and no more represents heartland Labour than Trump does!
Really? A lot of people believe otherwise, mind, a lot of people may have their other favourites. Just curious what did he vote against?
You forget that JC was voted in by a lot of people who historically weren't Labour members. Momentum is a party within a party. Most MPs were voted for by an electorate who would never vote for a JC party, other than they are historically Labour voters The role of the leader of the opposition is not to moan, but to build a credible alternative to the party in powere - JC does not do this in any way."
I agree with the last paragraph - it seems thst JC is quite popular with people who don't usually bother to vote, the disillusioned and the young. I think he could surprise a lot of people.
I feel that in light of the current rise of the far right, a strong, socialist left alternative is needed. Most of the Blairites are not this, and they needed to go.
It'll be interesting to see what happens in UK politics, I'm wondering if the formation of some kind of new centrist party made up of liberal tories and Blairites migt come about...or the Liberal Democrats suddenly sort their act out...or similar. |
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"So if the mp's manage to force Corbyn out and he puts his name forward to be Labour leader again and once again the members elect him what next ? They will be a laughing stock they already are here in Scotland and if that did happen that the members vote for him to be leader again then i would say they will become a bigger laughing stock"
The internet members were Corbyn's friend last time. This time the right(er) wing of the Labour party has learnt and are ready. Expect a load of new £3 members to join again this time round only this time they won't be Corbynistas. |
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"So if the mp's manage to force Corbyn out and he puts his name forward to be Labour leader again and once again the members elect him what next ? They will be a laughing stock they already are here in Scotland and if that did happen that the members vote for him to be leader again then i would say they will become a bigger laughing stock
I genuinely believe the party HAS to find a way to stop that happening, by fair means or foul.
Foul
Are you suggesting what I think you're suggesting
Haha I don't think so!
I was referring to some kind of legal loophole, not the David Kelly Nuclear Option "
I was going to say.. I mean I know he's bad but not that bad. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
I feel that in light of the current rise of the far right, a strong, socialist left alternative is needed. "
No offence but this kind of thinking is what makes labour unelectable, it's stuck in the past. The left vrs right ideology is so dated and obsolete.
The issues facing people don't divide nicely down two polar opposite ideologies. The average person on the street is far more interested in a debate between points based immigration visas and the EU free movement, the number of new houses being built or whether there should be a third runway at Heathrow. The more you hug a far right or far left ideology and look to it for answers then the further away you get from relating what an average joe really gives a shit about. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
As the Tories shift to the right, surely Labour should take the opportunity to grab the middle ground?
Instead, they are being taken over by people who just don't care about winning elections and who are hellbent on alienating anyone who doesn't share their _iews. It's absolutely bewildering. The whole world is going mad! |
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"
I feel that in light of the current rise of the far right, a strong, socialist left alternative is needed.
No offence but this kind of thinking is what makes labour unelectable, it's stuck in the past. The left vrs right ideology is so dated and obsolete.
The issues facing people don't divide nicely down two polar opposite ideologies. The average person on the street is far more interested in a debate between points based immigration visas and the EU free movement, the number of new houses being built or whether there should be a third runway at Heathrow. The more you hug a far right or far left ideology and look to it for answers then the further away you get from relating what an average joe really gives a shit about. "
No a large portion of the British public cant take more than one thing to focus on that was the problem with the referendum they had two choices and went into overload . |
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"As the Tories shift to the right, surely Labour should take the opportunity to grab the middle ground?
Instead, they are being taken over by people who just don't care about winning elections and who are hellbent on alienating anyone who doesn't share their _iews. It's absolutely bewildering. The whole world is going mad!"
That's been what they have been doing for the last 25+ years. Result is we now have a Labour party that is supposed to represent the workers of this country that has and supports more right wing policies than the pre-Thatcher Conservative party. It's time Labour stopped being wet Tories licking the arses of the bosses and started representing their members and supporters again! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"As the Tories shift to the right, surely Labour should take the opportunity to grab the middle ground?
Instead, they are being taken over by people who just don't care about winning elections and who are hellbent on alienating anyone who doesn't share their _iews. It's absolutely bewildering. The whole world is going mad!
That's been what they have been doing for the last 25+ years. Result is we now have a Labour party that is supposed to represent the workers of this country that has and supports more right wing policies than the pre-Thatcher Conservative party. It's time Labour stopped being wet Tories licking the arses of the bosses and started representing their members and supporters again!"
When the new Tory leader is announced, it's highly likely that they'll have a swift General Election to consolidate their position.
Do you really think that Corbyn can win that, particularly in the face of a venomously hostile media and with Ukip making gains in the heartlands? He will lose a mimimum of 100 seats in my opinion. His message simply isn't being heard outside of the faithful.
If we had a PR system and Jezza was the leader of the left wing Momentum Party, I might well vote for him. As leader of the necessary broad church Labour movement, he's nothing short of an absolute disaster. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"As the Tories shift to the right, surely Labour should take the opportunity to grab the middle ground?
Instead, they are being taken over by people who just don't care about winning elections and who are hellbent on alienating anyone who doesn't share their _iews. It's absolutely bewildering. The whole world is going mad!
That's been what they have been doing for the last 25+ years. Result is we now have a Labour party that is supposed to represent the workers of this country that has and supports more right wing policies than the pre-Thatcher Conservative party. It's time Labour stopped being wet Tories licking the arses of the bosses and started representing their members and supporters again!
When the new Tory leader is announced, it's highly likely that they'll have a swift General Election to consolidate their position.
Do you really think that Corbyn can win that,"
As someone who hates all extreme politicans with a passion, I hope he tries... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"As the Tories shift to the right, surely Labour should take the opportunity to grab the middle ground?
Instead, they are being taken over by people who just don't care about winning elections and who are hellbent on alienating anyone who doesn't share their _iews. It's absolutely bewildering. The whole world is going mad!
That's been what they have been doing for the last 25+ years. Result is we now have a Labour party that is supposed to represent the workers of this country that has and supports more right wing policies than the pre-Thatcher Conservative party. It's time Labour stopped being wet Tories licking the arses of the bosses and started representing their members and supporters again!
When the new Tory leader is announced, it's highly likely that they'll have a swift General Election to consolidate their position.
Do you really think that Corbyn can win that,
As someone who hates all extreme politicans with a passion, I hope he tries... "
As someone who cares about this country and the direction it's taking, I fucking hope he doesn't  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"As the Tories shift to the right, surely Labour should take the opportunity to grab the middle ground?
Instead, they are being taken over by people who just don't care about winning elections and who are hellbent on alienating anyone who doesn't share their _iews. It's absolutely bewildering. The whole world is going mad!
That's been what they have been doing for the last 25+ years. Result is we now have a Labour party that is supposed to represent the workers of this country that has and supports more right wing policies than the pre-Thatcher Conservative party. It's time Labour stopped being wet Tories licking the arses of the bosses and started representing their members and supporters again!
When the new Tory leader is announced, it's highly likely that they'll have a swift General Election to consolidate their position.
Do you really think that Corbyn can win that,
As someone who hates all extreme politicans with a passion, I hope he tries... "
As someone who cares about this country and the direction it's taking, I fucking hope he doesn't |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"As the Tories shift to the right, surely Labour should take the opportunity to grab the middle ground?
Instead, they are being taken over by people who just don't care about winning elections and who are hellbent on alienating anyone who doesn't share their _iews. It's absolutely bewildering. The whole world is going mad!
That's been what they have been doing for the last 25+ years. Result is we now have a Labour party that is supposed to represent the workers of this country that has and supports more right wing policies than the pre-Thatcher Conservative party. It's time Labour stopped being wet Tories licking the arses of the bosses and started representing their members and supporters again!
When the new Tory leader is announced, it's highly likely that they'll have a swift General Election to consolidate their position.
Do you really think that Corbyn can win that,
As someone who hates all extreme politicans with a passion, I hope he tries...
As someone who cares about this country and the direction it's taking, I fucking hope he doesn't "
Why? He has no chance and all his hardcore supporters will finally shut the fuck about him and labour might actually be forced to admit new labour was a success and come back from la la land. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"As the Tories shift to the right, surely Labour should take the opportunity to grab the middle ground?
Instead, they are being taken over by people who just don't care about winning elections and who are hellbent on alienating anyone who doesn't share their _iews. It's absolutely bewildering. The whole world is going mad!
That's been what they have been doing for the last 25+ years. Result is we now have a Labour party that is supposed to represent the workers of this country that has and supports more right wing policies than the pre-Thatcher Conservative party. It's time Labour stopped being wet Tories licking the arses of the bosses and started representing their members and supporters again!
When the new Tory leader is announced, it's highly likely that they'll have a swift General Election to consolidate their position.
Do you really think that Corbyn can win that,
As someone who hates all extreme politicans with a passion, I hope he tries...
As someone who cares about this country and the direction it's taking, I fucking hope he doesn't
Why? He has no chance and all his hardcore supporters will finally shut the fuck about him and labour might actually be forced to admit new labour was a success and come back from la la land. "
I know he has no chance, that's why I want him gone.
We've entered into a twilight world where everyone appears to have lost the ability to think rationally. Corbyn has lost the plot if he thinks he can win against Boris butnI think he really does think that. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"If Gisela Stuart was Labour Leader, I would start to vote for Labour again, she has proven herself and is a well established, level headed lady
.
she would get my vote
I personally like Corbyn, and I feel as though the Blarite side of the party who were hugely pro-remain are out of touch with traditional labour voters. If however they succeed in getting another leadership contest, and corbyn is not put forward or is't perceived to do well in it, and she does, I'd support her. Her stance in the EU referendum might get a strong backing from disenfranchised labour voters."
Gisela Stuart has the ability to gain trust in the party and would make a fantastic leader, I Emailed her yesterday and had a reply back from her on same day
would love to see her as leader of labour and as said, to eventually fill the slot of PM |
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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago
Bristol |
"As the Tories shift to the right, surely Labour should take the opportunity to grab the middle ground?
Instead, they are being taken over by people who just don't care about winning elections and who are hellbent on alienating anyone who doesn't share their _iews. It's absolutely bewildering. The whole world is going mad!
That's been what they have been doing for the last 25+ years. Result is we now have a Labour party that is supposed to represent the workers of this country that has and supports more right wing policies than the pre-Thatcher Conservative party. It's time Labour stopped being wet Tories licking the arses of the bosses and started representing their members and supporters again!
When the new Tory leader is announced, it's highly likely that they'll have a swift General Election to consolidate their position.
Do you really think that Corbyn can win that,
As someone who hates all extreme politicans with a passion, I hope he tries...
As someone who cares about this country and the direction it's taking, I fucking hope he doesn't
Why? He has no chance and all his hardcore supporters will finally shut the fuck about him and labour might actually be forced to admit new labour was a success and come back from la la land.
I know he has no chance, that's why I want him gone.
We've entered into a twilight world where everyone appears to have lost the ability to think rationally. Corbyn has lost the plot if he thinks he can win against Boris butnI think he really does think that."
He is literally the only person within the Labour ranks who stands a chance against any Tory leader. There is no-one else.
This is the best thing that could be happening for the party. We are finally going to be rid of the people who have no place in a modern Labour Party. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"As the Tories shift to the right, surely Labour should take the opportunity to grab the middle ground?
Instead, they are being taken over by people who just don't care about winning elections and who are hellbent on alienating anyone who doesn't share their _iews. It's absolutely bewildering. The whole world is going mad!
That's been what they have been doing for the last 25+ years. Result is we now have a Labour party that is supposed to represent the workers of this country that has and supports more right wing policies than the pre-Thatcher Conservative party. It's time Labour stopped being wet Tories licking the arses of the bosses and started representing their members and supporters again!
When the new Tory leader is announced, it's highly likely that they'll have a swift General Election to consolidate their position.
Do you really think that Corbyn can win that,
As someone who hates all extreme politicans with a passion, I hope he tries...
As someone who cares about this country and the direction it's taking, I fucking hope he doesn't
Why? He has no chance and all his hardcore supporters will finally shut the fuck about him and labour might actually be forced to admit new labour was a success and come back from la la land.
I know he has no chance, that's why I want him gone.
We've entered into a twilight world where everyone appears to have lost the ability to think rationally. Corbyn has lost the plot if he thinks he can win against Boris butnI think he really does think that.
He is literally the only person within the Labour ranks who stands a chance against any Tory leader. There is no-one else.
This is the best thing that could be happening for the party. We are finally going to be rid of the people who have no place in a modern Labour Party."
I'm sorry, but I think you are wrong.
I would love a leftward-facing Labour Party in Government, but we can't do that by alienating huge swathes of people who would usually vote for us - and indeed do the footwork.
Where were these thousands of new members during the Referendum and local elections? The ones who were supposed to be combating the power of the media by doorstepping and campaigning in unparalleled numbers? In this area, they were nowhere. Seriously - nowhere. I have campaigned for Labour since my teens and we have never seen so few people willing to work. Momentum is nothing more than a student talking shop, and a dangerous one at that - our local Momentum resembles an SWP meeting and indeed it's leadership is those people who have been around in Revolutionary Leftist politics for many years. Where are all the young people? Not at those meetings - the average age is around 50 and, apart from a few union activists, there's barely a rough-skinned hand amongst them.
The Labour Party is a broad coalition party, designed to win elections against the Conservatives in a two-party system. Sure, the centrists have been in control for too long and have frustrated many of us but we must not race to the extremes.
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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago
Bristol |
"As the Tories shift to the right, surely Labour should take the opportunity to grab the middle ground?
Instead, they are being taken over by people who just don't care about winning elections and who are hellbent on alienating anyone who doesn't share their _iews. It's absolutely bewildering. The whole world is going mad!
That's been what they have been doing for the last 25+ years. Result is we now have a Labour party that is supposed to represent the workers of this country that has and supports more right wing policies than the pre-Thatcher Conservative party. It's time Labour stopped being wet Tories licking the arses of the bosses and started representing their members and supporters again!
When the new Tory leader is announced, it's highly likely that they'll have a swift General Election to consolidate their position.
Do you really think that Corbyn can win that,
As someone who hates all extreme politicans with a passion, I hope he tries...
As someone who cares about this country and the direction it's taking, I fucking hope he doesn't
Why? He has no chance and all his hardcore supporters will finally shut the fuck about him and labour might actually be forced to admit new labour was a success and come back from la la land.
I know he has no chance, that's why I want him gone.
We've entered into a twilight world where everyone appears to have lost the ability to think rationally. Corbyn has lost the plot if he thinks he can win against Boris butnI think he really does think that.
He is literally the only person within the Labour ranks who stands a chance against any Tory leader. There is no-one else.
This is the best thing that could be happening for the party. We are finally going to be rid of the people who have no place in a modern Labour Party.
I'm sorry, but I think you are wrong.
I would love a leftward-facing Labour Party in Government, but we can't do that by alienating huge swathes of people who would usually vote for us - and indeed do the footwork.
Where were these thousands of new members during the Referendum and local elections? The ones who were supposed to be combating the power of the media by doorstepping and campaigning in unparalleled numbers? In this area, they were nowhere. Seriously - nowhere. I have campaigned for Labour since my teens and we have never seen so few people willing to work. Momentum is nothing more than a student talking shop, and a dangerous one at that - our local Momentum resembles an SWP meeting and indeed it's leadership is those people who have been around in Revolutionary Leftist politics for many years. Where are all the young people? Not at those meetings - the average age is around 50 and, apart from a few union activists, there's barely a rough-skinned hand amongst them.
The Labour Party is a broad coalition party, designed to win elections against the Conservatives in a two-party system. Sure, the centrists have been in control for too long and have frustrated many of us but we must not race to the extremes.
"
And I think you're wrong.
The days of Labour as a broad coalition are dead. People who want that have to find a new home, whether that is a new party or they feel more comfortable (and I think many will) in the ranks of the Tories or Lib Dems.
It's time for Labour to throw off the shackles of the past twenty years of compromise and get back to core principles. If voters don't like that, then they won't win elections, and I am very comfortable if that is how things turn out.
A party with no principles doesn't deserve to survive. |
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"As the Tories shift to the right, surely Labour should take the opportunity to grab the middle ground?
Instead, they are being taken over by people who just don't care about winning elections and who are hellbent on alienating anyone who doesn't share their _iews. It's absolutely bewildering. The whole world is going mad!
That's been what they have been doing for the last 25+ years. Result is we now have a Labour party that is supposed to represent the workers of this country that has and supports more right wing policies than the pre-Thatcher Conservative party. It's time Labour stopped being wet Tories licking the arses of the bosses and started representing their members and supporters again!
When the new Tory leader is announced, it's highly likely that they'll have a swift General Election to consolidate their position.
Do you really think that Corbyn can win that,
As someone who hates all extreme politicans with a passion, I hope he tries...
As someone who cares about this country and the direction it's taking, I fucking hope he doesn't
Why? He has no chance and all his hardcore supporters will finally shut the fuck about him and labour might actually be forced to admit new labour was a success and come back from la la land.
I know he has no chance, that's why I want him gone.
We've entered into a twilight world where everyone appears to have lost the ability to think rationally. Corbyn has lost the plot if he thinks he can win against Boris butnI think he really does think that.
He is literally the only person within the Labour ranks who stands a chance against any Tory leader. There is no-one else.
This is the best thing that could be happening for the party. We are finally going to be rid of the people who have no place in a modern Labour Party.
I'm sorry, but I think you are wrong.
I would love a leftward-facing Labour Party in Government, but we can't do that by alienating huge swathes of people who would usually vote for us - and indeed do the footwork.
Where were these thousands of new members during the Referendum and local elections? The ones who were supposed to be combating the power of the media by doorstepping and campaigning in unparalleled numbers? In this area, they were nowhere. Seriously - nowhere. I have campaigned for Labour since my teens and we have never seen so few people willing to work. Momentum is nothing more than a student talking shop, and a dangerous one at that - our local Momentum resembles an SWP meeting and indeed it's leadership is those people who have been around in Revolutionary Leftist politics for many years. Where are all the young people? Not at those meetings - the average age is around 50 and, apart from a few union activists, there's barely a rough-skinned hand amongst them.
The Labour Party is a broad coalition party, designed to win elections against the Conservatives in a two-party system. Sure, the centrists have been in control for too long and have frustrated many of us but we must not race to the extremes.
And I think you're wrong.
The days of Labour as a broad coalition are dead. People who want that have to find a new home, whether that is a new party or they feel more comfortable (and I think many will) in the ranks of the Tories or Lib Dems.
It's time for Labour to throw off the shackles of the past twenty years of compromise and get back to core principles. If voters don't like that, then they won't win elections, and I am very comfortable if that is how things turn out.
A party with no principles doesn't deserve to survive."
You are not showing the same level of confidence in Corbyn's vote winning powers as you did ? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"As the Tories shift to the right, surely Labour should take the opportunity to grab the middle ground?
Instead, they are being taken over by people who just don't care about winning elections and who are hellbent on alienating anyone who doesn't share their _iews. It's absolutely bewildering. The whole world is going mad!
That's been what they have been doing for the last 25+ years. Result is we now have a Labour party that is supposed to represent the workers of this country that has and supports more right wing policies than the pre-Thatcher Conservative party. It's time Labour stopped being wet Tories licking the arses of the bosses and started representing their members and supporters again!
When the new Tory leader is announced, it's highly likely that they'll have a swift General Election to consolidate their position.
Do you really think that Corbyn can win that,
As someone who hates all extreme politicans with a passion, I hope he tries...
As someone who cares about this country and the direction it's taking, I fucking hope he doesn't
Why? He has no chance and all his hardcore supporters will finally shut the fuck about him and labour might actually be forced to admit new labour was a success and come back from la la land.
I know he has no chance, that's why I want him gone.
We've entered into a twilight world where everyone appears to have lost the ability to think rationally. Corbyn has lost the plot if he thinks he can win against Boris butnI think he really does think that.
He is literally the only person within the Labour ranks who stands a chance against any Tory leader. There is no-one else.
This is the best thing that could be happening for the party. We are finally going to be rid of the people who have no place in a modern Labour Party.
I'm sorry, but I think you are wrong.
I would love a leftward-facing Labour Party in Government, but we can't do that by alienating huge swathes of people who would usually vote for us - and indeed do the footwork.
Where were these thousands of new members during the Referendum and local elections? The ones who were supposed to be combating the power of the media by doorstepping and campaigning in unparalleled numbers? In this area, they were nowhere. Seriously - nowhere. I have campaigned for Labour since my teens and we have never seen so few people willing to work. Momentum is nothing more than a student talking shop, and a dangerous one at that - our local Momentum resembles an SWP meeting and indeed it's leadership is those people who have been around in Revolutionary Leftist politics for many years. Where are all the young people? Not at those meetings - the average age is around 50 and, apart from a few union activists, there's barely a rough-skinned hand amongst them.
The Labour Party is a broad coalition party, designed to win elections against the Conservatives in a two-party system. Sure, the centrists have been in control for too long and have frustrated many of us but we must not race to the extremes.
And I think you're wrong.
The days of Labour as a broad coalition are dead. People who want that have to find a new home, whether that is a new party or they feel more comfortable (and I think many will) in the ranks of the Tories or Lib Dems.
It's time for Labour to throw off the shackles of the past twenty years of compromise and get back to core principles. If voters don't like that, then they won't win elections, and I am very comfortable if that is how things turn out.
A party with no principles doesn't deserve to survive."
Where were his principles when Corbyn campaigned for the side he didn't believe in? |
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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago
Hereford |
"As the Tories shift to the right, surely Labour should take the opportunity to grab the middle ground?
Instead, they are being taken over by people who just don't care about winning elections and who are hellbent on alienating anyone who doesn't share their _iews. It's absolutely bewildering. The whole world is going mad!
That's been what they have been doing for the last 25+ years. Result is we now have a Labour party that is supposed to represent the workers of this country that has and supports more right wing policies than the pre-Thatcher Conservative party. It's time Labour stopped being wet Tories licking the arses of the bosses and started representing their members and supporters again!
When the new Tory leader is announced, it's highly likely that they'll have a swift General Election to consolidate their position.
Do you really think that Corbyn can win that,
As someone who hates all extreme politicans with a passion, I hope he tries...
As someone who cares about this country and the direction it's taking, I fucking hope he doesn't
Why? He has no chance and all his hardcore supporters will finally shut the fuck about him and labour might actually be forced to admit new labour was a success and come back from la la land.
I know he has no chance, that's why I want him gone.
We've entered into a twilight world where everyone appears to have lost the ability to think rationally. Corbyn has lost the plot if he thinks he can win against Boris butnI think he really does think that.
He is literally the only person within the Labour ranks who stands a chance against any Tory leader. There is no-one else.
This is the best thing that could be happening for the party. We are finally going to be rid of the people who have no place in a modern Labour Party.
I'm sorry, but I think you are wrong.
I would love a leftward-facing Labour Party in Government, but we can't do that by alienating huge swathes of people who would usually vote for us - and indeed do the footwork.
Where were these thousands of new members during the Referendum and local elections? The ones who were supposed to be combating the power of the media by doorstepping and campaigning in unparalleled numbers? In this area, they were nowhere. Seriously - nowhere. I have campaigned for Labour since my teens and we have never seen so few people willing to work. Momentum is nothing more than a student talking shop, and a dangerous one at that - our local Momentum resembles an SWP meeting and indeed it's leadership is those people who have been around in Revolutionary Leftist politics for many years. Where are all the young people? Not at those meetings - the average age is around 50 and, apart from a few union activists, there's barely a rough-skinned hand amongst them.
The Labour Party is a broad coalition party, designed to win elections against the Conservatives in a two-party system. Sure, the centrists have been in control for too long and have frustrated many of us but we must not race to the extremes.
And I think you're wrong.
The days of Labour as a broad coalition are dead. People who want that have to find a new home, whether that is a new party or they feel more comfortable (and I think many will) in the ranks of the Tories or Lib Dems.
It's time for Labour to throw off the shackles of the past twenty years of compromise and get back to core principles. If voters don't like that, then they won't win elections, and I am very comfortable if that is how things turn out.
A party with no principles doesn't deserve to survive.
Where were his principles when Corbyn campaigned for the side he didn't believe in?"
Actually, I thought that he talked a lot of sense. To paraphrase- he didn't like the EU, but on balance, he felt that it was more sensible to remain and try to change it than to leave. But of course making "fair enough" type statements is not soundbite, slick politicking.. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"As the Tories shift to the right, surely Labour should take the opportunity to grab the middle ground?
Instead, they are being taken over by people who just don't care about winning elections and who are hellbent on alienating anyone who doesn't share their _iews. It's absolutely bewildering. The whole world is going mad!
That's been what they have been doing for the last 25+ years. Result is we now have a Labour party that is supposed to represent the workers of this country that has and supports more right wing policies than the pre-Thatcher Conservative party. It's time Labour stopped being wet Tories licking the arses of the bosses and started representing their members and supporters again!
When the new Tory leader is announced, it's highly likely that they'll have a swift General Election to consolidate their position.
Do you really think that Corbyn can win that,
As someone who hates all extreme politicans with a passion, I hope he tries...
As someone who cares about this country and the direction it's taking, I fucking hope he doesn't
Why? He has no chance and all his hardcore supporters will finally shut the fuck about him and labour might actually be forced to admit new labour was a success and come back from la la land.
I know he has no chance, that's why I want him gone.
We've entered into a twilight world where everyone appears to have lost the ability to think rationally. Corbyn has lost the plot if he thinks he can win against Boris butnI think he really does think that.
He is literally the only person within the Labour ranks who stands a chance against any Tory leader. There is no-one else.
This is the best thing that could be happening for the party. We are finally going to be rid of the people who have no place in a modern Labour Party.
I'm sorry, but I think you are wrong.
I would love a leftward-facing Labour Party in Government, but we can't do that by alienating huge swathes of people who would usually vote for us - and indeed do the footwork.
Where were these thousands of new members during the Referendum and local elections? The ones who were supposed to be combating the power of the media by doorstepping and campaigning in unparalleled numbers? In this area, they were nowhere. Seriously - nowhere. I have campaigned for Labour since my teens and we have never seen so few people willing to work. Momentum is nothing more than a student talking shop, and a dangerous one at that - our local Momentum resembles an SWP meeting and indeed it's leadership is those people who have been around in Revolutionary Leftist politics for many years. Where are all the young people? Not at those meetings - the average age is around 50 and, apart from a few union activists, there's barely a rough-skinned hand amongst them.
The Labour Party is a broad coalition party, designed to win elections against the Conservatives in a two-party system. Sure, the centrists have been in control for too long and have frustrated many of us but we must not race to the extremes.
And I think you're wrong.
The days of Labour as a broad coalition are dead. People who want that have to find a new home, whether that is a new party or they feel more comfortable (and I think many will) in the ranks of the Tories or Lib Dems.
It's time for Labour to throw off the shackles of the past twenty years of compromise and get back to core principles. If voters don't like that, then they won't win elections, and I am very comfortable if that is how things turn out.
A party with no principles doesn't deserve to survive.
Where were his principles when Corbyn campaigned for the side he didn't believe in?
Actually, I thought that he talked a lot of sense. To paraphrase- he didn't like the EU, but on balance, he felt that it was more sensible to remain and try to change it than to leave. But of course making "fair enough" type statements is not soundbite, slick politicking.."
Yeah that's how he justified his road to Damascus conversion... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
And I think you're wrong.
The days of Labour as a broad coalition are dead. People who want that have to find a new home, whether that is a new party or they feel more comfortable (and I think many will) in the ranks of the Tories or Lib Dems.
It's time for Labour to throw off the shackles of the past twenty years of compromise and get back to core principles. If voters don't like that, then they won't win elections, and I am very comfortable if that is how things turn out.
A party with no principles doesn't deserve to survive."
The board church certainly looks dead but it seems it's your fellow thinkers that need to find a new home!!
The barbarians are at the gates! |
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Someone said on Facebook earlier, "it's like people think JC isn't enough of a bastard to be in power"
the other things is that apparently MPs claimed £2m in expenses, JC - £9.
We have had the Etonians surely now we need a credible leader, and I do think JC is that. That said, I would vote SNP I think. |
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