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Scottish independence
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Found this, thought you might like it..
THE HAMMER IS FALLING
Interesting to note that Ms Sturgeon is taking out the spectre of indyref2 from her cupboard. There are some in nationalist quarters who actually even think there is an inevitability that it'll happen.
Of course, the problems in effecting indyref2 are legion. For Ms Sturgeon to deliver an "independent" Scotland as a member of the EU (an oxymoron itself), she has already herself acknowledged that there is only a two year window of opportunity to do so, (that is between Westminster invoking Article 50 and the UK's final exit).
However, where her headache deepens is, even if a Section 30 order was granted to allow a referendum to take place, Ms Sturgeon would need to do a number of things to ease Scotland's place on the five year waiting list.
She would need to commit an "independent" Scotland to both the Euro and the Schengen travel zone, (in fact, Scotland would have to first establish its own currency and prove its stability before even adopting the Euro, otherwise Scotland would be unable to set its own monetary policy, or make its own trade-offs with fiscal policy). She would need to bring down Scotland's £14.9 billion deficit to less than 3% GDP. It currently stands at 9.7% GDP. This means that she would need to find over £11 billion from somewhere. She would need to establish a centralised bank with three years' business under its belt, to show its solvency and to assure the EU that it wouldn't be heir to any future huge bailouts. Mr Swinney found a centralised bank to be wholly unaffordable in 2014, hence their currency argument fell apart. The Bank of England would not be an "independent" Scotland's Lender of Last Resort without some form of currency arrangement.
In essence, we would join the back of a five year waiting list, perhaps after Mr Juncker lifts the five year freeze on applicants that he imposed last year; the Scottish Government would have to find well in excess of £11 billion to bring down Scotland's deficit, to meet EU membership application criteria before applying and would need to spend several billion more to establish a centralised bank (that would have zero experience in monetary policy) and start trading on Day 1. Then there would be the insurmountable problem of working against current EU members who very definitely would veto an "independent" Scotland's application. If only one vetoes, the processing of membership cannot take place.
"Independence" isn't coming any time soon for Scotland, and neither is EU membership, as Ms Sturgeon well knows, especially as the EU commission today announced that "Scotland is part of the UK and constitutional arrangements apply. We will not speculate further". The current threats that she is issuing will sooner or later expose the deceit at the heart of her rhetoric. |
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It won't happen until the UK is fully separated fron the EU. No British pm would be able to keep both processes on track at the same time and so would not approve it if requested until the schedule was clear. At least the next three years and maybe five ? |
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By *razedcatMan
over a year ago
London / Herts |
I can see that there are substantial obstacles Scotland will face in joining the EU if it wishes to do so. However, I do not see how any of the issues outlined by the OP will prevent Scotland becoming an independent state. And that in itself is a massive loss for the United Kingdom. |
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By *aucy3Couple
over a year ago
glasgow |
"Found this, thought you might like it..
THE HAMMER IS FALLING
Interesting to note that Ms Sturgeon is taking out the spectre of indyref2 from her cupboard. There are some in nationalist quarters who actually even think there is an inevitability that it'll happen.
Of course, the problems in effecting indyref2 are legion. For Ms Sturgeon to deliver an "independent" Scotland as a member of the EU (an oxymoron itself), she has already herself acknowledged that there is only a two year window of opportunity to do so, (that is between Westminster invoking Article 50 and the UK's final exit).
However, where her headache deepens is, even if a Section 30 order was granted to allow a referendum to take place, Ms Sturgeon would need to do a number of things to ease Scotland's place on the five year waiting list.
She would need to commit an "independent" Scotland to both the Euro and the Schengen travel zone, (in fact, Scotland would have to first establish its own currency and prove its stability before even adopting the Euro, otherwise Scotland would be unable to set its own monetary policy, or make its own trade-offs with fiscal policy). She would need to bring down Scotland's £14.9 billion deficit to less than 3% GDP. It currently stands at 9.7% GDP. This means that she would need to find over £11 billion from somewhere. She would need to establish a centralised bank with three years' business under its belt, to show its solvency and to assure the EU that it wouldn't be heir to any future huge bailouts. Mr Swinney found a centralised bank to be wholly unaffordable in 2014, hence their currency argument fell apart. The Bank of England would not be an "independent" Scotland's Lender of Last Resort without some form of currency arrangement.
In essence, we would join the back of a five year waiting list, perhaps after Mr Juncker lifts the five year freeze on applicants that he imposed last year; the Scottish Government would have to find well in excess of £11 billion to bring down Scotland's deficit, to meet EU membership application criteria before applying and would need to spend several billion more to establish a centralised bank (that would have zero experience in monetary policy) and start trading on Day 1. Then there would be the insurmountable problem of working against current EU members who very definitely would veto an "independent" Scotland's application. If only one vetoes, the processing of membership cannot take place.
"Independence" isn't coming any time soon for Scotland, and neither is EU membership, as Ms Sturgeon well knows, especially as the EU commission today announced that "Scotland is part of the UK and constitutional arrangements apply. We will not speculate further". The current threats that she is issuing will sooner or later expose the deceit at the heart of her rhetoric."
Clem,have you ever thought,you over think things.
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Ms Sturgeon.should remember what happened when the last Queen of Scotland challenged an English Queen called Elizabeth.personally though the EU can have both Scotland and Northen Ireland it will just be like keeping Greece afloat for them |
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"Found this, thought you might like it..
THE HAMMER IS FALLING
Interesting to note that Ms Sturgeon is taking out the spectre of indyref2 from her cupboard. There are some in nationalist quarters who actually even think there is an inevitability that it'll happen.
Of course, the problems in effecting indyref2 are legion. For Ms Sturgeon to deliver an "independent" Scotland as a member of the EU (an oxymoron itself), she has already herself acknowledged that there is only a two year window of opportunity to do so, (that is between Westminster invoking Article 50 and the UK's final exit).
However, where her headache deepens is, even if a Section 30 order was granted to allow a referendum to take place, Ms Sturgeon would need to do a number of things to ease Scotland's place on the five year waiting list.
She would need to commit an "independent" Scotland to both the Euro and the Schengen travel zone, (in fact, Scotland would have to first establish its own currency and prove its stability before even adopting the Euro, otherwise Scotland would be unable to set its own monetary policy, or make its own trade-offs with fiscal policy). She would need to bring down Scotland's £14.9 billion deficit to less than 3% GDP. It currently stands at 9.7% GDP. This means that she would need to find over £11 billion from somewhere. She would need to establish a centralised bank with three years' business under its belt, to show its solvency and to assure the EU that it wouldn't be heir to any future huge bailouts. Mr Swinney found a centralised bank to be wholly unaffordable in 2014, hence their currency argument fell apart. The Bank of England would not be an "independent" Scotland's Lender of Last Resort without some form of currency arrangement.
In essence, we would join the back of a five year waiting list, perhaps after Mr Juncker lifts the five year freeze on applicants that he imposed last year; the Scottish Government would have to find well in excess of £11 billion to bring down Scotland's deficit, to meet EU membership application criteria before applying and would need to spend several billion more to establish a centralised bank (that would have zero experience in monetary policy) and start trading on Day 1. Then there would be the insurmountable problem of working against current EU members who very definitely would veto an "independent" Scotland's application. If only one vetoes, the processing of membership cannot take place.
"Independence" isn't coming any time soon for Scotland, and neither is EU membership, as Ms Sturgeon well knows, especially as the EU commission today announced that "Scotland is part of the UK and constitutional arrangements apply. We will not speculate further". The current threats that she is issuing will sooner or later expose the deceit at the heart of her rhetoric."
why shengen |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I can see that there are substantial obstacles Scotland will face in joining the EU"
The biggest of which is that by the time they could join, there won't be an EU to join |
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By *aucy3Couple
over a year ago
glasgow |
"I can see that there are substantial obstacles Scotland will face in joining the EU
The biggest of which is that by the time they could join, there won't be an EU to join "
Like a house of cards,it's going to fall.
 |
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"I can see that there are substantial obstacles Scotland will face in joining the EU
The biggest of which is that by the time they could join, there won't be an EU to join
Like a house of cards,it's going to fall.
"
Who would live in a house of cards, that's ridiculous...they'd get wet |
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"Giving Scotland independence would shift some of our national debt - which will increase as we go through the brexit process.
No one wins"
You can shift their share of national debt if you shift their share of national assets. |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"The thing that makes me giggle, is that the Scottish vote was almost as divisive at the rest of the uk"
the vote in the uk was 52-48....
the vote in scotland was actually 68-32 for remain.....
but spin it as you wish.... |
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By *alcon43Woman
over a year ago
Paisley |
"Found this, thought you might like it..
THE HAMMER IS FALLING
Interesting to note that Ms Sturgeon is taking out the spectre of indyref2 from her cupboard. There are some in nationalist quarters who actually even think there is an inevitability that it'll happen.
Of course, the problems in effecting indyref2 are legion. For Ms Sturgeon to deliver an "independent" Scotland as a member of the EU (an oxymoron itself), she has already herself acknowledged that there is only a two year window of opportunity to do so, (that is between Westminster invoking Article 50 and the UK's final exit).
However, where her headache deepens is, even if a Section 30 order was granted to allow a referendum to take place, Ms Sturgeon would need to do a number of things to ease Scotland's place on the five year waiting list.
She would need to commit an "independent" Scotland to both the Euro and the Schengen travel zone, (in fact, Scotland would have to first establish its own currency and prove its stability before even adopting the Euro, otherwise Scotland would be unable to set its own monetary policy, or make its own trade-offs with fiscal policy). She would need to bring down Scotland's £14.9 billion deficit to less than 3% GDP. It currently stands at 9.7% GDP. This means that she would need to find over £11 billion from somewhere. She would need to establish a centralised bank with three years' business under its belt, to show its solvency and to assure the EU that it wouldn't be heir to any future huge bailouts. Mr Swinney found a centralised bank to be wholly unaffordable in 2014, hence their currency argument fell apart. The Bank of England would not be an "independent" Scotland's Lender of Last Resort without some form of currency arrangement.
In essence, we would join the back of a five year waiting list, perhaps after Mr Juncker lifts the five year freeze on applicants that he imposed last year; the Scottish Government would have to find well in excess of £11 billion to bring down Scotland's deficit, to meet EU membership application criteria before applying and would need to spend several billion more to establish a centralised bank (that would have zero experience in monetary policy) and start trading on Day 1. Then there would be the insurmountable problem of working against current EU members who very definitely would veto an "independent" Scotland's application. If only one vetoes, the processing of membership cannot take place.
"Independence" isn't coming any time soon for Scotland, and neither is EU membership, as Ms Sturgeon well knows, especially as the EU commission today announced that "Scotland is part of the UK and constitutional arrangements apply. We will not speculate further". The current threats that she is issuing will sooner or later expose the deceit at the heart of her rhetoric."
It keeps her busy ?? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I am now thinking that Westminster should give the SNP 6 months to achieve the required standards for EU membership. And then repeal the Act of Union.
To be honest I am despising this lying manipulating woman more every day because she treats us English like idiots and we wear it. Scotland cost England £15 Bn last year and £12 Bn the year before. The average of that is more than the £13.2 Bn the EU costs us (nett) in 5 years. (Yes Fabio I know you say the number is £12.9 Bn for 2015 but hey it makes my point even more clearly). And we voted to get rid of the EU....
Reality will kick in this year in Scotland because the SNP have to balance the books as they now have full fiscal powers. Watch the Jocks squeak when they have to empty £3,000 a year each extra in taxes...
Oh wait maybe that is why 'Project Smokescreen' has been foisted on us.... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Giving Scotland independence would shift some of our national debt - which will increase as we go through the brexit process.
No one wins
You can shift their share of national debt if you shift their share of national assets. "
You confuse assets with expenditure and revenue. Last year the SNP spent £15 Bn more in expenditure than they raised in revenue. We English paid it. And the Asset base in Scotland is actually a UK asset base at the moment ... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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See when scotland had their referendum they were well aware of the brexit referendum being a possibility. The majority voted to stay. Now brexit has been voted for by the majority of the people that voted in the uk. Those that voted remain unfortunatly need to stop crying, realise the majority want differant to them and instead of, as sturgeon is, trying to divide the nation further, stand together to make the process as smooth as possible and to stop any possible further complications. Scotland is a tiny country and would struggle to cope alone and joining the eu is in no way a possible opion in the forseeable future for them. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"See when scotland had their referendum they were well aware of the brexit referendum being a possibility. The majority voted to stay. Now brexit has been voted for by the majority of the people that voted in the uk. Those that voted remain unfortunatly need to stop crying, realise the majority want differant to them and instead of, as sturgeon is, trying to divide the nation further, stand together to make the process as smooth as possible and to stop any possible further complications. Scotland is a tiny country and would struggle to cope alone and joining the eu is in no way a possible opion in the forseeable future for them."
Spot on ... I was going to say 'back of the net' but Scotland never find it. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I can see that there are substantial obstacles Scotland will face in joining the EU if it wishes to do so. However, I do not see how any of the issues outlined by the OP will prevent Scotland becoming an independent state. And that in itself is a massive loss for the United Kingdom."
If becoming an independent state does NOT combine with staying in/re-joining the EU...then there is no basis for having another referendum. Current EU rules are as Clem stated.
Must wait 5 years
Must have stable independent currency with a minimum 3 years of history of central bank
Must have under 3% of GDP defecit....etc etc
As well as must be in Euro and Schengen.
Rather like Turkey, they would meet about 1 of the 34 criteria required for entry so might join by about 3000AD?
Sturgeon talks a great game....but no realism! |
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I would tread very carefully if I was scottish....
see which way the wind blows before going gung ho for a 2nd indyref..
what will the potential strength of the EU be in a couple of years...
as opposed to the potential of the UK now out of EU...and free to trade with the world |
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"I would tread very carefully if I was scottish....
see which way the wind blows before going gung ho for a 2nd indyref..
what will the potential strength of the EU be in a couple of years...
as opposed to the potential of the UK now out of EU...and free to trade with the world"
We were already free to trade with the world! China in 2015, India in 2014.
How many times will this "we can now trade with other countries" shtick die out?
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Giving Scotland independence would shift some of our national debt - which will increase as we go through the brexit process.
No one wins
You can shift their share of national debt if you shift their share of national assets. "
.
I've just been though this with somebody else on another thread!!.
Were one country not a political union.
If they wish to septate, I'm all in favour of their democratic wishes, but there national debt share will be the same as their national asset share!.
5-10% of UK assets/debts.
They get the same debt as asset share, they don't get all the oil while saying we only get 10% of the debt! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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This is the shit, I can't stand lefties for.... On one thread they moan about racist division and on another thread there promoting nationalist division.... While decrying EU leavers for ruining the chances of curing nationalism!!!
On another thread soon they'll be complaining about English beating up Scots and vise versa and moaning about why the world's fucked up....
 |
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"I would tread very carefully if I was scottish....
see which way the wind blows before going gung ho for a 2nd indyref..
what will the potential strength of the EU be in a couple of years...
as opposed to the potential of the UK now out of EU...and free to trade with the world
We were already free to trade with the world! China in 2015, India in 2014.
How many times will this "we can now trade with other countries" shtick die out?
"
america?..canada?..australia?...new zealand?..vietnam?/..cuba??..brazil?...peru?.. thailand?..all of africa?..to name a few |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"This is the shit, I can't stand lefties for.... On one thread they moan about racist division and on another thread there promoting nationalist division.... While decrying EU leavers for ruining the chances of curing nationalism!!!
On another thread soon they'll be complaining about English beating up Scots and vise versa and moaning about why the world's fucked up....
"
What I find amazing about nationalism is how some many people buy into such a dumb idea.
The entire concept is that you create a 'in-group' based on a bunch of people you don't chose and just randomly were born near. Yet it's caught on!!!
Today's people can't even imagine that in earlier history there was no such concept and the people then would have laughed at such an arbitrary idea instead of choosing who you identify with. |
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"I would tread very carefully if I was scottish....
see which way the wind blows before going gung ho for a 2nd indyref..
what will the potential strength of the EU be in a couple of years...
as opposed to the potential of the UK now out of EU...and free to trade with the world
We were already free to trade with the world! China in 2015, India in 2014.
How many times will this "we can now trade with other countries" shtick die out?
america?..canada?..australia?...new zealand?..vietnam?/..cuba??..brazil?...peru?.. thailand?..all of africa?..to name a few"
Well we're back of the queue with America.
Canada, Aus and NZ have about a tenth of the population of Europe. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If they wish to septate, I'm all in favour of their democratic wishes, but there national debt share will be the same as their national asset share!.
5-10% of UK assets/debts.
They get the same debt as asset share, they don't get all the oil while saying we only get 10% of the debt!"
This was all clearly worked out by both Westminster & Scottish Government in 2014, come on doors, your smarter than this, you need to go back and refer to these deals |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If they wish to septate, I'm all in favour of their democratic wishes, but there national debt share will be the same as their national asset share!.
5-10% of UK assets/debts.
They get the same debt as asset share, they don't get all the oil while saying we only get 10% of the debt!
This was all clearly worked out by both Westminster & Scottish Government in 2014, come on doors, your smarter than this, you need to go back and refer to these deals"
.
Well once you've set a precedent that parts of a country can split away and retain "there" resources, what you'll get is the knock on effect from that, you giant tsunamis of south sudans... Good luck with that! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
".
They get the same debt as asset share, they don't get all the oil while saying we only get 10% of the debt!
"
You will remember us being told there is no oil, it is clearly running out, I couldn't understand that comment when I was in Houston working on a new oil development, oil in Scottish waters is Scottish owned |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I would tread very carefully if I was scottish....
see which way the wind blows before going gung ho for a 2nd indyref..
what will the potential strength of the EU be in a couple of years...
as opposed to the potential of the UK now out of EU...and free to trade with the world
We were already free to trade with the world! China in 2015, India in 2014.
How many times will this "we can now trade with other countries" shtick die out?
america?..canada?..australia?...new zealand?..vietnam?/..cuba??..brazil?...peru?.. thailand?..all of africa?..to name a few
Well we're back of the queue with America.
Canada, Aus and NZ have about a tenth of the population of Europe. "
Well apparently according to Obama we are no longer at the back of the queue. And Trump bless him has welcomed our 'independence'. Hillary had better speak up soon.
But on the trade thing yes of course we already trade with the rest of the world under bilateral trade agreements. We did about $114 Bn worth of combined trade with the USA in 2015 for example. We also have a preferential trade deal being part of the Commonwealth.
What us 'Brexiters' mean by all this is we now have the freedom to improve those trade deals now we aren't shackled by the EU rules that protect the Single Market which, after all, is'nt 'Free Trade' at all. Its an inward looking protectionist Customs Union. So for example with the USA again. We have to charge 10% on imports of, say, cars from the USA into the UK but they only charge us 2.5%. We can now say 'no Tariffs at all' and share a duty free trade agreement. That will increase trade but more importantly increase inward investment both ways. The USA is currently the UK's biggest investor and the UK is the USA's biggest investor. Where the USA leads the rest of the world will follow and we can create a global reduction in tariffs. And regaining our seat at the WTO means we are also protected from aggressive pricing from the EU.... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I would tread very carefully if I was scottish....
see which way the wind blows before going gung ho for a 2nd indyref..
what will the potential strength of the EU be in a couple of years...
as opposed to the potential of the UK now out of EU...and free to trade with the world
We were already free to trade with the world! China in 2015, India in 2014.
How many times will this "we can now trade with other countries" shtick die out?
america?..canada?..australia?...new zealand?..vietnam?/..cuba??..brazil?...peru?.. thailand?..all of africa?..to name a few
Well we're back of the queue with America.
Canada, Aus and NZ have about a tenth of the population of Europe.
Well apparently according to Obama we are no longer at the back of the queue. And Trump bless him has welcomed our 'independence'. Hillary had better speak up soon.
But on the trade thing yes of course we already trade with the rest of the world under bilateral trade agreements. We did about $114 Bn worth of combined trade with the USA in 2015 for example. We also have a preferential trade deal being part of the Commonwealth.
What us 'Brexiters' mean by all this is we now have the freedom to improve those trade deals now we aren't shackled by the EU rules that protect the Single Market which, after all, is'nt 'Free Trade' at all. Its an inward looking protectionist Customs Union. So for example with the USA again. We have to charge 10% on imports of, say, cars from the USA into the UK but they only charge us 2.5%. We can now say 'no Tariffs at all' and share a duty free trade agreement. That will increase trade but more importantly increase inward investment both ways. The USA is currently the UK's biggest investor and the UK is the USA's biggest investor. Where the USA leads the rest of the world will follow and we can create a global reduction in tariffs. And regaining our seat at the WTO means we are also protected from aggressive pricing from the EU...."
I hope you are right. As Anna Soubry said on Question Time yesterday: "if you break it, you own it".
So time for Cameron to fuck off and give the new leader a fighting chance to turn this into an opportunity for the whole country. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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".
They get the same debt as asset share, they don't get all the oil while saying we only get 10% of the debt!
You will remember us being told there is no oil, it is clearly running out, I couldn't understand that comment when I was in Houston working on a new oil development, oil in Scottish waters is Scottish owned "
.
Oil running out!! What's your point on that?.
So who's oil is it in Houston's? Texas or the USA?.
That's my point, you can't possibly reclaim a discovered resource by the UK and claim it as Scottish, regardless of exactly where the geography of the resources is, all you'll do is encourage Alaska to vote for independence and tell America to do one! |
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".
They get the same debt as asset share, they don't get all the oil while saying we only get 10% of the debt!
You will remember us being told there is no oil, it is clearly running out, I couldn't understand that comment when I was in Houston working on a new oil development, oil in Scottish waters is Scottish owned .
Oil running out!! What's your point on that?.
So who's oil is it in Houston's? Texas or the USA?.
That's my point, you can't possibly reclaim a discovered resource by the UK and claim it as Scottish, regardless of exactly where the geography of the resources is, all you'll do is encourage Alaska to vote for independence and tell America to do one!"
This argument about the Scots "owning" the oil off their shores is bollix, were they the only ones to pay to find it, drill it, and process it?
If they hadn't had the UK wealth distribution in years past, they would have struggled, and when the price of oil plummeted it blew a very large hole in their projections about financial matters after their first independence vote. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
".
They get the same debt as asset share, they don't get all the oil while saying we only get 10% of the debt!
You will remember us being told there is no oil, it is clearly running out, I couldn't understand that comment when I was in Houston working on a new oil development, oil in Scottish waters is Scottish owned .
Oil running out!! What's your point on that?.
So who's oil is it in Houston's? Texas or the USA?.
That's my point, you can't possibly reclaim a discovered resource by the UK and claim it as Scottish, regardless of exactly where the geography of the resources is, all you'll do is encourage Alaska to vote for independence and tell America to do one!
This argument about the Scots "owning" the oil off their shores is bollix, were they the only ones to pay to find it, drill it, and process it?
If they hadn't had the UK wealth distribution in years past, they would have struggled, and when the price of oil plummeted it blew a very large hole in their projections about financial matters after their first independence vote."
.
The UK government spent so much developing north sea oil, it pretty much bankrupted them in the early 70s, Tony been actually was minister in charge of it,i went to a couple of his speeches in later life and he said he pretty much begged the imf for a five year loan, which was given the ok but only if they sold off the plays!.
That has been the 50 year project of the imf and international bank, that what they do, give loans with the effect of private corporate take overs!!!..... Money goes to money, anybody that thinks the IMF is some fucking do gooder charity should seriously look at their dealings with most third world countries! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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We should Repeal the Act of Union and set the Jocks free from this horrendous arrangement where they can take credit when things go right and blame us English for when it goes wrong. And as for getting us terrible English to pay their overdraft off .. well .. horrendous state of affairs!
Independence for Scotland I say ... pretty please? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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".
This argument about the Scots "owning" the oil off their shores is bollix, were they the only ones to pay to find it, drill it, and process it?
If they hadn't had the UK wealth distribution in years past, they would have struggled, and when the price of oil plummeted it blew a very large hole in their projections about financial matters after their first independence vote."
always thought north sea exploration was sold off in blocks, which companies would purchase and pay taxes on revenue and there is a boundary within "Scottish Waters" same as there is a boundary within English waters, at the end of the day both you and I know that if Scotland did go independent the North sea oil revenues would go to Scotland, so why are we wasting time on this matter? |
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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago
The Council of Elrond |
"See when scotland had their referendum they were well aware of the brexit referendum being a possibility. The majority voted to stay. Now brexit has been voted for by the majority of the people that voted in the uk. Those that voted remain unfortunatly need to stop crying, realise the majority want differant to them and instead of, as sturgeon is, trying to divide the nation further, stand together to make the process as smooth as possible and to stop any possible further complications. Scotland is a tiny country and would struggle to cope alone and joining the eu is in no way a possible opion in the forseeable future for them."
We were aware of the brexit referendum being a possibility? Really ? please show me where Better Together were telling the Scottish voters they will be 100% a EU referendum ? They were however telling the Scottish voters to vote no and Scotland's place in the EU would be safe and if people voted yes Scotland would be dragged out of the EU. Ironic that its the UK that is going to drag Scotland out of the EU |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I would tread very carefully if I was scottish....
see which way the wind blows before going gung ho for a 2nd indyref..
what will the potential strength of the EU be in a couple of years...
as opposed to the potential of the UK now out of EU...and free to trade with the world
We were already free to trade with the world! China in 2015, India in 2014.
How many times will this "we can now trade with other countries" shtick die out?
america?..canada?..australia?...new zealand?..vietnam?/..cuba??..brazil?...peru?.. thailand?..all of africa?..to name a few
Well we're back of the queue with America.
Canada, Aus and NZ have about a tenth of the population of Europe.
Well apparently according to Obama we are no longer at the back of the queue. And Trump bless him has welcomed our 'independence'. Hillary had better speak up soon.
But on the trade thing yes of course we already trade with the rest of the world under bilateral trade agreements. We did about $114 Bn worth of combined trade with the USA in 2015 for example. We also have a preferential trade deal being part of the Commonwealth.
What us 'Brexiters' mean by all this is we now have the freedom to improve those trade deals now we aren't shackled by the EU rules that protect the Single Market which, after all, is'nt 'Free Trade' at all. Its an inward looking protectionist Customs Union. So for example with the USA again. We have to charge 10% on imports of, say, cars from the USA into the UK but they only charge us 2.5%. We can now say 'no Tariffs at all' and share a duty free trade agreement. That will increase trade but more importantly increase inward investment both ways. The USA is currently the UK's biggest investor and the UK is the USA's biggest investor. Where the USA leads the rest of the world will follow and we can create a global reduction in tariffs. And regaining our seat at the WTO means we are also protected from aggressive pricing from the EU...."
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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".
This argument about the Scots "owning" the oil off their shores is bollix, were they the only ones to pay to find it, drill it, and process it?
If they hadn't had the UK wealth distribution in years past, they would have struggled, and when the price of oil plummeted it blew a very large hole in their projections about financial matters after their first independence vote.
always thought north sea exploration was sold off in blocks, which companies would purchase and pay taxes on revenue and there is a boundary within "Scottish Waters" same as there is a boundary within English waters, at the end of the day both you and I know that if Scotland did go independent the North sea oil revenues would go to Scotland, so why are we wasting time on this matter?"
.
I'm not arsed, I've already said I'm in favour of Scotland doing whatever democratic decision they want?.
I'm stating a matter of international law, resources found as a single sovereign state cannot be laid claim to by a breakaway of a part of it....ie Scotland claiming it's there's, that's not how it works for the reasons I've already been through.... It would just encourage an awful lot of south Sudan problems?...I dunno maybe Scotland would be happy with that? Apart from that fact, you've got international agreements in cutting c02 by about 80% , so maybe there's no long term future in oil anyhow, well no maybe about it, there isn't one!.... Or maybe those caring sharing Scots don't mind fucking up the world by continuing to ply their oil??.
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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago
The Council of Elrond |
"I am fed up with all this Scottish independence rubbish . I wonder if we now had a uk vote if we wanted to expel them what the vote may be "
Maybe go to your local MP and ask them for an English independence referendum ? Just an idea |
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".
This argument about the Scots "owning" the oil off their shores is bollix, were they the only ones to pay to find it, drill it, and process it?
If they hadn't had the UK wealth distribution in years past, they would have struggled, and when the price of oil plummeted it blew a very large hole in their projections about financial matters after their first independence vote.
always thought north sea exploration was sold off in blocks, which companies would purchase and pay taxes on revenue and there is a boundary within "Scottish Waters" same as there is a boundary within English waters, at the end of the day both you and I know that if Scotland did go independent the North sea oil revenues would go to Scotland, so why are we wasting time on this matter?"
I'm quite happy for the Scots to get the revenue.... just don't come begging, cap in hand, when it isn't enough to pay the leccy bill lol!
Current forecasts are the Scots would have a 9.7% deficit against their GDP, compared with the 3% that is required for EU membership so they'd need to find about 11.7 BILLION just to sort that..... have fun with your massive tax bill if you vote for independence!!
But.... wee Jimmy Krankie (aka Scotlands "first lady" lol) knows this, she's only threatening the UK govt with another referendum on independence because she wans more money etc from the UK, she knows she could never deliver a stable recognisable currency, or a Bank that would take the place of the Bank of England, or many of the other pre-requisites that the EU would need before they would consider letting an independent Scotland into its greasy clutches.
Face it, the "Independent Scotland" dream is just that, and the sooner we all buy into that the better, and move on with a United Kingdom where we are all pulling in the same direction.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I am fed up with all this Scottish independence rubbish . I wonder if we now had a uk vote if we wanted to expel them what the vote may be "
Personally I think we are all better together than apart. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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My post was not about the uk being better off with Scotland in but more about putting the issue to bed once and for all . If it keeps coming up every year how can the uk move forward . To all you lovely scots people come down see us we will show you we love you |
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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago
The Council of Elrond |
"My post was not about the uk being better off with Scotland in but more about putting the issue to bed once and for all . If it keeps coming up every year how can the uk move forward . To all you lovely scots people come down see us we will show you we love you "
Its not about showing love yes we love the English and no doubt the English love us but this more about having our voices heard. 100% Scotland voted to remain in the EU that should not be ignored yes we are part of the UK and in the UK our voices should be heard too and we voted to stay so the Scottish people must decide on whats in their best interests England voted to leave am ok with that but Scotland choose to remain and that should be respected. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
Its not about showing love yes we love the English and no doubt the English love us but this more about having our voices heard. 100% Scotland voted to remain in the EU that should not be ignored yes we are part of the UK and in the UK our voices should be heard too and we voted to stay so the Scottish people must decide on whats in their best interests England voted to leave am ok with that but Scotland choose to remain and that should be respected. "
Sorry. 100% of Scotland did NOT vote to remain in the EU. Over a million Scots voted to Leave. But I guess in the brave SNP world they don't count. And for the record so did Wales. Should their wishes be ignored by Scotland as well?
The utter hypocrisy of Sturgeon beggars belief. She says that the majority in Scotland voting to remain is all that matters. And then dismisses an even bigger numerical majority (10 times bigger lets not forget) in the UK that voted Leave. She stupidly, but conveniently for her forgets, this was not an election by constituency. It was a purely numerical referendum. So how we voted in East Anglia or how the Orkneys voted is totally irrelevant. It was a UK vote. A UK that you Scots voted by a large majority in which to remain.
She blatantly misleads you Scots by saying you were misled over the IndyRef in 2014. No you weren't. You all knew there would be an EU Referendum for 18 months before your referendum. And for her to say you were told that voting to remain in the UK somehow guaranteed membership of the EU is actually pretty dumb. So all the Scots who voted to stay in the UK never for one minute thought that the UK might vote to leave the EU in a referendum you already knew about?
And now the woman thinks she is the UK Foreign Secretary! Can someone remind her that Foreign Affairs, like Defence, are not devolved matters?
And as for blocking the will of the people of the UK for a Brexit she really needs to get a grip. The Scottish Parliament simply does not have that constitutional power. And if she tries it on then we could just repeal the Act of Union and set you all adrift in the North Sea for her act of treachery.
This woman is playing with fire and sadly for all the Scots I know and love and the fabulous country that is Scotland she will take all that with her down the toilet... |
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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago
The Council of Elrond |
"
Its not about showing love yes we love the English and no doubt the English love us but this more about having our voices heard. 100% Scotland voted to remain in the EU that should not be ignored yes we are part of the UK and in the UK our voices should be heard too and we voted to stay so the Scottish people must decide on whats in their best interests England voted to leave am ok with that but Scotland choose to remain and that should be respected.
Sorry. 100% of Scotland did NOT vote to remain in the EU. Over a million Scots voted to Leave. But I guess in the brave SNP world they don't count. And for the record so did Wales. Should their wishes be ignored by Scotland as well?
The utter hypocrisy of Sturgeon beggars belief. She says that the majority in Scotland voting to remain is all that matters. And then dismisses an even bigger numerical majority (10 times bigger lets not forget) in the UK that voted Leave. She stupidly, but conveniently for her forgets, this was not an election by constituency. It was a purely numerical referendum. So how we voted in East Anglia or how the Orkneys voted is totally irrelevant. It was a UK vote. A UK that you Scots voted by a large majority in which to remain.
She blatantly misleads you Scots by saying you were misled over the IndyRef in 2014. No you weren't. You all knew there would be an EU Referendum for 18 months before your referendum. And for her to say you were told that voting to remain in the UK somehow guaranteed membership of the EU is actually pretty dumb. So all the Scots who voted to stay in the UK never for one minute thought that the UK might vote to leave the EU in a referendum you already knew about?
And now the woman thinks she is the UK Foreign Secretary! Can someone remind her that Foreign Affairs, like Defence, are not devolved matters?
And as for blocking the will of the people of the UK for a Brexit she really needs to get a grip. The Scottish Parliament simply does not have that constitutional power. And if she tries it on then we could just repeal the Act of Union and set you all adrift in the North Sea for her act of treachery.
This woman is playing with fire and sadly for all the Scots I know and love and the fabulous country that is Scotland she will take all that with her down the toilet..."
Ah right let me say that again then. all of Scotland council areas voted to remain part of the EU. Now the same could be easily said that not all of Scotland voted to remain part of the UK 45% voted for independence.
Please show me where Better Together were claiming that their will 100% be a EU referendum in 2014 ? Are you saying we can see into the future now and knew what would be in the 2015 Tory manifesto ? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
Its not about showing love yes we love the English and no doubt the English love us but this more about having our voices heard. 100% Scotland voted to remain in the EU that should not be ignored yes we are part of the UK and in the UK our voices should be heard too and we voted to stay so the Scottish people must decide on whats in their best interests England voted to leave am ok with that but Scotland choose to remain and that should be respected.
Sorry. 100% of Scotland did NOT vote to remain in the EU. Over a million Scots voted to Leave. But I guess in the brave SNP world they don't count. And for the record so did Wales. Should their wishes be ignored by Scotland as well?
The utter hypocrisy of Sturgeon beggars belief. She says that the majority in Scotland voting to remain is all that matters. And then dismisses an even bigger numerical majority (10 times bigger lets not forget) in the UK that voted Leave. She stupidly, but conveniently for her forgets, this was not an election by constituency. It was a purely numerical referendum. So how we voted in East Anglia or how the Orkneys voted is totally irrelevant. It was a UK vote. A UK that you Scots voted by a large majority in which to remain.
She blatantly misleads you Scots by saying you were misled over the IndyRef in 2014. No you weren't. You all knew there would be an EU Referendum for 18 months before your referendum. And for her to say you were told that voting to remain in the UK somehow guaranteed membership of the EU is actually pretty dumb. So all the Scots who voted to stay in the UK never for one minute thought that the UK might vote to leave the EU in a referendum you already knew about?
And now the woman thinks she is the UK Foreign Secretary! Can someone remind her that Foreign Affairs, like Defence, are not devolved matters?
And as for blocking the will of the people of the UK for a Brexit she really needs to get a grip. The Scottish Parliament simply does not have that constitutional power. And if she tries it on then we could just repeal the Act of Union and set you all adrift in the North Sea for her act of treachery.
This woman is playing with fire and sadly for all the Scots I know and love and the fabulous country that is Scotland she will take all that with her down the toilet...
Ah right let me say that again then. all of Scotland council areas voted to remain part of the EU. Now the same could be easily said that not all of Scotland voted to remain part of the UK 45% voted for independence.
Please show me where Better Together were claiming that their will 100% be a EU referendum in 2014 ? Are you saying we can see into the future now and knew what would be in the 2015 Tory manifesto ? "
Cameron promised it on 23rd January 2013. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"See when scotland had their referendum they were well aware of the brexit referendum being a possibility. The majority voted to stay. Now brexit has been voted for by the majority of the people that voted in the uk. Those that voted remain unfortunatly need to stop crying, realise the majority want differant to them and instead of, as sturgeon is, trying to divide the nation further, stand together to make the process as smooth as possible and to stop any possible further complications. Scotland is a tiny country and would struggle to cope alone and joining the eu is in no way a possible opion in the forseeable future for them."
Perfectly well said. |
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By *inkyHnSCouple
over a year ago
The Council of Elrond |
"
Its not about showing love yes we love the English and no doubt the English love us but this more about having our voices heard. 100% Scotland voted to remain in the EU that should not be ignored yes we are part of the UK and in the UK our voices should be heard too and we voted to stay so the Scottish people must decide on whats in their best interests England voted to leave am ok with that but Scotland choose to remain and that should be respected.
Sorry. 100% of Scotland did NOT vote to remain in the EU. Over a million Scots voted to Leave. But I guess in the brave SNP world they don't count. And for the record so did Wales. Should their wishes be ignored by Scotland as well?
The utter hypocrisy of Sturgeon beggars belief. She says that the majority in Scotland voting to remain is all that matters. And then dismisses an even bigger numerical majority (10 times bigger lets not forget) in the UK that voted Leave. She stupidly, but conveniently for her forgets, this was not an election by constituency. It was a purely numerical referendum. So how we voted in East Anglia or how the Orkneys voted is totally irrelevant. It was a UK vote. A UK that you Scots voted by a large majority in which to remain.
She blatantly misleads you Scots by saying you were misled over the IndyRef in 2014. No you weren't. You all knew there would be an EU Referendum for 18 months before your referendum. And for her to say you were told that voting to remain in the UK somehow guaranteed membership of the EU is actually pretty dumb. So all the Scots who voted to stay in the UK never for one minute thought that the UK might vote to leave the EU in a referendum you already knew about?
And now the woman thinks she is the UK Foreign Secretary! Can someone remind her that Foreign Affairs, like Defence, are not devolved matters?
And as for blocking the will of the people of the UK for a Brexit she really needs to get a grip. The Scottish Parliament simply does not have that constitutional power. And if she tries it on then we could just repeal the Act of Union and set you all adrift in the North Sea for her act of treachery.
This woman is playing with fire and sadly for all the Scots I know and love and the fabulous country that is Scotland she will take all that with her down the toilet...
Ah right let me say that again then. all of Scotland council areas voted to remain part of the EU. Now the same could be easily said that not all of Scotland voted to remain part of the UK 45% voted for independence.
Please show me where Better Together were claiming that their will 100% be a EU referendum in 2014 ? Are you saying we can see into the future now and knew what would be in the 2015 Tory manifesto ?
Cameron promised it on 23rd January 2013."
Lol right so are you saying the Scottish people knew what was going to be in the 2015 Tory manifesto in 2014 ? I promise you you will win the lotto doesnt mean its going to happen does it ?
Fact is Better Together were telling Scottish people to vote no and Scotland's place in the EU would be safe and if they voted yes then Scotland would be out of the EU ironic that its the UK that could drag Scotland out. Now Scotland government has to look out for the best interests of the Scottish people and 62% of Scotland voted to remain part of the EU not one part of Scotland councils voted to leave the EU and that can not be ignored we are part of the UK or should England and Wales drag us out of something we clearly want to remain in ? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
Its not about showing love yes we love the English and no doubt the English love us but this more about having our voices heard. 100% Scotland voted to remain in the EU that should not be ignored yes we are part of the UK and in the UK our voices should be heard too and we voted to stay so the Scottish people must decide on whats in their best interests England voted to leave am ok with that but Scotland choose to remain and that should be respected.
Sorry. 100% of Scotland did NOT vote to remain in the EU. Over a million Scots voted to Leave. But I guess in the brave SNP world they don't count. And for the record so did Wales. Should their wishes be ignored by Scotland as well?
The utter hypocrisy of Sturgeon beggars belief. She says that the majority in Scotland voting to remain is all that matters. And then dismisses an even bigger numerical majority (10 times bigger lets not forget) in the UK that voted Leave. She stupidly, but conveniently for her forgets, this was not an election by constituency. It was a purely numerical referendum. So how we voted in East Anglia or how the Orkneys voted is totally irrelevant. It was a UK vote. A UK that you Scots voted by a large majority in which to remain.
She blatantly misleads you Scots by saying you were misled over the IndyRef in 2014. No you weren't. You all knew there would be an EU Referendum for 18 months before your referendum. And for her to say you were told that voting to remain in the UK somehow guaranteed membership of the EU is actually pretty dumb. So all the Scots who voted to stay in the UK never for one minute thought that the UK might vote to leave the EU in a referendum you already knew about?
And now the woman thinks she is the UK Foreign Secretary! Can someone remind her that Foreign Affairs, like Defence, are not devolved matters?
And as for blocking the will of the people of the UK for a Brexit she really needs to get a grip. The Scottish Parliament simply does not have that constitutional power. And if she tries it on then we could just repeal the Act of Union and set you all adrift in the North Sea for her act of treachery.
This woman is playing with fire and sadly for all the Scots I know and love and the fabulous country that is Scotland she will take all that with her down the toilet...
Ah right let me say that again then. all of Scotland council areas voted to remain part of the EU. Now the same could be easily said that not all of Scotland voted to remain part of the UK 45% voted for independence.
Please show me where Better Together were claiming that their will 100% be a EU referendum in 2014 ? Are you saying we can see into the future now and knew what would be in the 2015 Tory manifesto ?
Cameron promised it on 23rd January 2013.
Lol right so are you saying the Scottish people knew what was going to be in the 2015 Tory manifesto in 2014 ? I promise you you will win the lotto doesnt mean its going to happen does it ?
Fact is Better Together were telling Scottish people to vote no and Scotland's place in the EU would be safe and if they voted yes then Scotland would be out of the EU ironic that its the UK that could drag Scotland out. Now Scotland government has to look out for the best interests of the Scottish people and 62% of Scotland voted to remain part of the EU not one part of Scotland councils voted to leave the EU and that can not be ignored we are part of the UK or should England and Wales drag us out of something we clearly want to remain in ? "
Is that any worse than your countrymen trying to drag you out of something you want to be in  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Well it seems that the majority of scots trust nicola and the snp or they wouldnt be in office ,i for one hope she takes us out of the union and also gets rid of the scoungers you call a monarchy |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
Its not about showing love yes we love the English and no doubt the English love us but this more about having our voices heard. 100% Scotland voted to remain in the EU that should not be ignored yes we are part of the UK and in the UK our voices should be heard too and we voted to stay so the Scottish people must decide on whats in their best interests England voted to leave am ok with that but Scotland choose to remain and that should be respected.
Sorry. 100% of Scotland did NOT vote to remain in the EU. Over a million Scots voted to Leave. But I guess in the brave SNP world they don't count. And for the record so did Wales. Should their wishes be ignored by Scotland as well?
The utter hypocrisy of Sturgeon beggars belief. She says that the majority in Scotland voting to remain is all that matters. And then dismisses an even bigger numerical majority (10 times bigger lets not forget) in the UK that voted Leave. She stupidly, but conveniently for her forgets, this was not an election by constituency. It was a purely numerical referendum. So how we voted in East Anglia or how the Orkneys voted is totally irrelevant. It was a UK vote. A UK that you Scots voted by a large majority in which to remain.
She blatantly misleads you Scots by saying you were misled over the IndyRef in 2014. No you weren't. You all knew there would be an EU Referendum for 18 months before your referendum. And for her to say you were told that voting to remain in the UK somehow guaranteed membership of the EU is actually pretty dumb. So all the Scots who voted to stay in the UK never for one minute thought that the UK might vote to leave the EU in a referendum you already knew about?
And now the woman thinks she is the UK Foreign Secretary! Can someone remind her that Foreign Affairs, like Defence, are not devolved matters?
And as for blocking the will of the people of the UK for a Brexit she really needs to get a grip. The Scottish Parliament simply does not have that constitutional power. And if she tries it on then we could just repeal the Act of Union and set you all adrift in the North Sea for her act of treachery.
This woman is playing with fire and sadly for all the Scots I know and love and the fabulous country that is Scotland she will take all that with her down the toilet...
Ah right let me say that again then. all of Scotland council areas voted to remain part of the EU. Now the same could be easily said that not all of Scotland voted to remain part of the UK 45% voted for independence.
Please show me where Better Together were claiming that their will 100% be a EU referendum in 2014 ? Are you saying we can see into the future now and knew what would be in the 2015 Tory manifesto ?
Cameron promised it on 23rd January 2013.
Lol right so are you saying the Scottish people knew what was going to be in the 2015 Tory manifesto in 2014 ? I promise you you will win the lotto doesnt mean its going to happen does it ?
Fact is Better Together were telling Scottish people to vote no and Scotland's place in the EU would be safe and if they voted yes then Scotland would be out of the EU ironic that its the UK that could drag Scotland out. Now Scotland government has to look out for the best interests of the Scottish people and 62% of Scotland voted to remain part of the EU not one part of Scotland councils voted to leave the EU and that can not be ignored we are part of the UK or should England and Wales drag us out of something we clearly want to remain in ? "
I am saying that in January 2013, Cameron promised a referendum on the EU membership. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Well it seems that the majority of scots trust nicola and the snp or they wouldnt be in office ,i for one hope she takes us out of the union and also gets rid of the scoungers you call a monarchy "
Ahh so we get to the heart of tour problem....you want to live in a Republic...well you can fuck right off |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Maybe im missing something if scotland had voted to leave the uk in 2014 were we not told we would not get into the eu,so now she wants to have another referendum to leave the uk again because of brexit but we won't be allowed into the eu anyway?? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Well it seems that the majority of scots trust nicola and the snp or they wouldnt be in office ,i for one hope she takes us out of the union and also gets rid of the scoungers you call a monarchy
Ahh so we get to the heart of tour problem....you want to live in a Republic...well you can fuck right off "
Sounds good republic of scotland lol oh did i hit a nerve about the peado loving so called royals |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I used to think it sounded good as well but then thought about the troubles it would bring and thought nah fuck that and seeing as the royals basically pay their way in tourism they're welcome to be our monarchs |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I used to think it sounded good as well but then thought about the troubles it would bring and thought nah fuck that and seeing as the royals basically pay their way in tourism they're welcome to be our monarchs "
Got to disagree they are not my monarchs fck they aren't even british well lizzy is but born to germanick prussians and ppl would still visit london if they wernt there |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I used to think it sounded good as well but then thought about the troubles it would bring and thought nah fuck that and seeing as the royals basically pay their way in tourism they're welcome to be our monarchs
Got to disagree they are not my monarchs fck they aren't even british well lizzy is but born to germanick prussians and ppl would still visit london if they wernt there "
Liz is an excellent Queen and why you'd want even more power in the hands of our useless politicans baffles me. I can only assume you base your position on an ideology and turn a blind eye to the reality. Balanced power works better every time. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Hello Lovingthefuncouple,
"Well it seems that the majority of scots trust nicola and the snp or they wouldnt be in office "
I've said this before but five years from now I doubt that the SNP will be a significant force in Scotland, as you tire of her promises that she can't deliver.
You'll slowly revert back to Labour, and possibly the odd Liberal Democrat.
Alec |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Well Angus Robertson is making it pretty clear what the position of the SNP is in Parliament right now. As the song goes "there may be trouble ahead"."
And Cameron shut him down pretty well. In a polite way. We know what the SNP are about. They are all about making mischief where they can regardless of the hypocrisy of their positions. They enact one thing in Scotland and then block the same thing in England where they have no mandate. Scots enjoy a bite at English affairs but we have none in theirs. And they cry 'foul' about democracy? Screw them I say!
Robertson and Sturgeon are people who have attitudes above their elected status. They can threaten all they like. Scotland voted to remain in the UK knowing for 18 months there would be an EU referendum. It was a numerical referendum not a constituency election.
Frankly a lot of English (and Welsh) are getting a bit fed up with the endless chatter from the SNP about IndyRefs. They had the biggest Devolution Settlement in the UK. They wanted more. They had a referendum and forgot they lost that. They wanted more and they got that. They now have full fiscal powers to govern Scotland. And a month after being elected they are gobbing off wanting more. It is all 'Project Smokescreen' to hide their financial failures in Government and the Scots can't see the wood for the trees. A financial failure I might add that cost us English £15 Bn in 2015. Or put another way £3,000 of my English tax was given to every man, woman and child in Scotland. And they ask for more ...
I hope the first speech the new PM makes tells Ms Sturgeon to Shut The Fuck Up, do her job for the Scottish people and leave the Foreign policy and Defence to the UK Government... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I used to think it sounded good as well but then thought about the troubles it would bring and thought nah fuck that and seeing as the royals basically pay their way in tourism they're welcome to be our monarchs
Got to disagree they are not my monarchs fck they aren't even british well lizzy is but born to germanick prussians and ppl would still visit london if they wernt there "
Oh dear ... who is being racist now? So in the dim and distant the Queen had German ancestry. So what? ANd for teh record the Queen contributes a lot more than Tourism. And calling her a scrounger makes you look utterly stupid and ignorant.
HM Queen Elizabeth has served this country faultlessly for some 65 years. She has seen Prime Ministers from Churchill to Cameron come and go. She knows more about foreign affairs than anyone else in Britain because she has seen it all at first hand. Her Crown Estates fund all her costs as Head of State. They also contribute over £240 Mn a year to the UK Treasury. She pays taxes and we fund her nothing. In fact we haven't paid a Monarch since the late 1600s. And when WE funded her State duties it cost us each 60p a year.
When you can come up with a better concept than a non political Head of State that costs nothing and chips in £ Millions a year do please say. Until then ...... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I used to think it sounded good as well but then thought about the troubles it would bring and thought nah fuck that and seeing as the royals basically pay their way in tourism they're welcome to be our monarchs
Got to disagree they are not my monarchs fck they aren't even british well lizzy is but born to germanick prussians and ppl would still visit london if they wernt there
Oh dear ... who is being racist now? So in the dim and distant the Queen had German ancestry. So what? ANd for teh record the Queen contributes a lot more than Tourism. And calling her a scrounger makes you look utterly stupid and ignorant.
HM Queen Elizabeth has served this country faultlessly for some 65 years. She has seen Prime Ministers from Churchill to Cameron come and go. She knows more about foreign affairs than anyone else in Britain because she has seen it all at first hand. Her Crown Estates fund all her costs as Head of State. They also contribute over £240 Mn a year to the UK Treasury. She pays taxes and we fund her nothing. In fact we haven't paid a Monarch since the late 1600s. And when WE funded her State duties it cost us each 60p a year.
When you can come up with a better concept than a non political Head of State that costs nothing and chips in £ Millions a year do please say. Until then ...... "
Biggest lot of bull ive read in a long time they are nothing but peado loving scroungers who haven't done an honest days work in their lives |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Hello Lovingthefuncouple,
"Well it seems that the majority of scots trust nicola and the snp or they wouldnt be in office "
I've said this before but five years from now I doubt that the SNP will be a significant force in Scotland, as you tire of her promises that she can't deliver.
You'll slowly revert back to Labour, and possibly the odd Liberal Democrat.
Alec"
Dont think so alec labour and liedems are dead in scotland and will never return |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Frankly a lot of English (and Welsh) are getting a bit fed up with the endless chatter from the SNP about IndyRefs. They had the biggest Devolution Settlement in the UK. They wanted more. They had a referendum and forgot they lost that. They wanted more and they got that. They now have full fiscal powers to govern Scotland. And a month after being elected they are gobbing off wanting more. It is all 'Project Smokescreen' to hide their financial failures in Government and the Scots can't see the wood for the trees. A financial failure I might add that cost us English £15 Bn in 2015. Or put another way £3,000 of my English tax was given to every man, woman and child in Scotland. And they ask for more ...
."
Then do something about it, or are you simply going to whinge and rant here
frankly we in Scotland don't give a sh*t to your ranting, its simply whinging and talk, no actions |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Scotland
lovely scenery, amazing homes with acres of land at fraction of London costs, free prescriptions, free education including college & university, free hospital parking, free sheltered housing and paid fuel bills for the elderly, plenty of primary school places, low class numbers, same day doctors appointments, friendly hospitality and fantastic place to live, and this year has some bloody amazing weather
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Leanne Wood of Plaid Cymru has muted that Wales should now try for an independence referendum. This is because she is unhappy with the euro referendum result.
Two minor points she has mot considered
Sadly Wales voted to leave Europe
Wales would not meet a single criteria to be considered eligible to be part of the EU
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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" Then do something about it, or are you simply going to whinge and rant here
frankly we in Scotland don't give a sh*t to your ranting, its simply whinging and talk, no actions "
Precisely what can I do about it? And I know you Jocks don't care. Sturgeon makes that perfectly clear. She has turned this ardent Unionist into someone who really hoped you would have had the guts to vote for Independence. But sadly you didn't because you know who has been baling you out. Like we baled your two banks out. The only banks to actually fail in 2008 / 9.
Given a chance I would repeal the Act of Union and let you lot sail off into the North Sea. Hadrian was right all those years ago. Scotland begged to join England when it was skint 300 years ago and we have been funding your lifestyle ever since. But what comes round goes round and Schadenfreude is a wonderful thing.
"Scotland
free prescriptions, free education including college & university, free hospital parking, free sheltered housing and paid fuel bills for the elderly"
Indeed. Because we English pay for your extravagance to the tune of £15 Bn a year. Anyway this year YOU will be paying. Tell me next year how great all the freebies are...
" plenty of primary school places, low class numbers, same day doctors appointments, "
Yes its wonderful when your country isn't overrun with immigrants filling those school places increasing class sizes and using our doctor's surgeries without paying. No wonder you voted to remain. The English paying your overdraft and barely an immigrant in sight. You need to come down where I and millions of others live and see what the real world is like. And then maybe YOU wouldn't be so keen on the damned EU. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Leanne Wood of Plaid Cymru has muted that Wales should now try for an independence referendum. This is because she is unhappy with the euro referendum result.
Two minor points she has mot considered
Sadly Wales voted to leave Europe
Wales would not meet a single criteria to be considered eligible to be part of the EU
"
Latest word on the SNP is Sturgeon has 'opened talks' with Gibraltar to keep them all in the EU. What with Plaid Cymru kicking off its Project La La Land in full flow tonight. |
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"
Yes its wonderful when your country isn't overrun with immigrants filling those school places increasing class sizes and using our doctor's surgeries without paying. No wonder you voted to remain. The English paying your overdraft and barely an immigrant in sight. You need to come down where I and millions of others live and see what the real world is like. And then maybe YOU wouldn't be so keen on the damned EU."
You should have saved this gem for the racism thread. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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" Then do something about it, or are you simply going to whinge and rant here
frankly we in Scotland don't give a sh*t to your ranting, its simply whinging and talk, no actions
Precisely what can I do about it? And I know you Jocks don't care. Sturgeon makes that perfectly clear. She has turned this ardent Unionist into someone who really hoped you would have had the guts to vote for Independence. But sadly you didn't because you know who has been baling you out. Like we baled your two banks out. The only banks to actually fail in 2008 / 9.
Given a chance I would repeal the Act of Union and let you lot sail off into the North Sea. Hadrian was right all those years ago. Scotland begged to join England when it was skint 300 years ago and we have been funding your lifestyle ever since. But what comes round goes round and Schadenfreude is a wonderful thing.
Scotland
free prescriptions, free education including college & university, free hospital parking, free sheltered housing and paid fuel bills for the elderly
Indeed. Because we English pay for your extravagance to the tune of £15 Bn a year. Anyway this year YOU will be paying. Tell me next year how great all the freebies are...
plenty of primary school places, low class numbers, same day doctors appointments,
Yes its wonderful when your country isn't overrun with immigrants filling those school places increasing class sizes and using our doctor's surgeries without paying. No wonder you voted to remain. The English paying your overdraft and barely an immigrant in sight. You need to come down where I and millions of others live and see what the real world is like. And then maybe YOU wouldn't be so keen on the damned EU."
Seriously, how do you go from making lots of decent comments that imply a decent level of intelligent and education to "overrun by immigrants" and how do you know they don't pay for doctors places - the chancellor says they do. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Seriously, how do you go from making lots of decent comments that imply a decent level of intelligent and education to "overrun by immigrants" and how do you know they don't pay for doctors places - the chancellor says they do."
Exasperation and being personally abused as a racist when I am no such thing. And when some Jock takes the piss that is the last straw. Yes that comment was in the heat of the moment and I now regret it but there we are its written. The fact remains that Scotland has had nowhere near the level of immigration that England has had and that will obviously affect people's views. I live in East Anglia and we returned amongst the highest percentage for Leave. We also have some of the highest rates of immigration. One affects the other.
I am sorry if I offended you by my remarks. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
Yes its wonderful when your country isn't overrun with immigrants filling those school places increasing class sizes and using our doctor's surgeries without paying. No wonder you voted to remain. The English paying your overdraft and barely an immigrant in sight. You need to come down where I and millions of others live and see what the real world is like. And then maybe YOU wouldn't be so keen on the damned EU.
You should have saved this gem for the racism thread. "
So you are saying I am a racist. Again? And I am supposed to just give a and say 'Thats OK chap'? |
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"
Yes its wonderful when your country isn't overrun with immigrants filling those school places increasing class sizes and using our doctor's surgeries without paying. No wonder you voted to remain. The English paying your overdraft and barely an immigrant in sight. You need to come down where I and millions of others live and see what the real world is like. And then maybe YOU wouldn't be so keen on the damned EU.
You should have saved this gem for the racism thread.
So you are saying I am a racist. Again? And I am supposed to just give a and say 'Thats OK chap'?"
I'm surprised you can say anything seeing as you're so busy being overrun. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
Yes its wonderful when your country isn't overrun with immigrants filling those school places increasing class sizes and using our doctor's surgeries without paying. No wonder you voted to remain. The English paying your overdraft and barely an immigrant in sight. You need to come down where I and millions of others live and see what the real world is like. And then maybe YOU wouldn't be so keen on the damned EU.
You should have saved this gem for the racism thread.
So you are saying I am a racist. Again? And I am supposed to just give a and say 'Thats OK chap'?"
you come across as racist, quite a lot of people think so.
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Seriously, how do you go from making lots of decent comments that imply a decent level of intelligent and education to "overrun by immigrants" and how do you know they don't pay for doctors places - the chancellor says they do.
Exasperation and being personally abused as a racist when I am no such thing. And when some Jock takes the piss that is the last straw. Yes that comment was in the heat of the moment and I now regret it but there we are its written. The fact remains that Scotland has had nowhere near the level of immigration that England has had and that will obviously affect people's views. I live in East Anglia and we returned amongst the highest percentage for Leave. We also have some of the highest rates of immigration. One affects the other.
I am sorry if I offended you by my remarks."
Apology accepted.
If the average immigrant is making a net tax contribution then a quick influx only highlights the inadequacies of the government.
You never heard a private company complain they had too many customers but government will blame anything to defect their own piss poor planning. There's no inherent fixed number of school places or hospital beds. If we have the tax revenue then they can fucking well build more. It's actually a good thing because that stimulates jobs here when they built stuff.
You don't want the opposite problem when you see these ghost towns in Eastern Europe where all the youngsters moved here and in doing so, lack of demand collapsed the local housing price market so the residents left couldn't afford to sell and move! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
Yes its wonderful when your country isn't overrun with immigrants filling those school places increasing class sizes and using our doctor's surgeries without paying. No wonder you voted to remain. The English paying your overdraft and barely an immigrant in sight. You need to come down where I and millions of others live and see what the real world is like. And then maybe YOU wouldn't be so keen on the damned EU.
You should have saved this gem for the racism thread.
So you are saying I am a racist. Again? And I am supposed to just give a and say 'Thats OK chap'?
I'm surprised you can say anything seeing as you're so busy being overrun. "
Our infrastructure, schools, housing, GP surgeries and hospitals are 'overrun' in that there is too much demand. And the OINS recently published a population count and said that the biggest increase has been caused by immigration. 630,000 new NI numbers were issued in 2015 which means 630,000 people can claim benefits, get housing, take jobs and need schools for their kids. In one year I call that pretty much being 'overrun'. I regret using the term in the context I did and I have apologised to the lady who objected. But the substance was correct.
You have been doing what the Leftie Luvvies have been doing since 2005 and calling anyone who is concerned about immigration, and especially those of us who voted leave, 'racists'. We are no such thing. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
" you come across as racist, quite a lot of people think so. "
Oh do they? You and one other person who can't distinguish between genuione concern for overcrowding and excessive demand and someone who hates people because of their colour or race.
Given 90% of the people coming from Eastern Europe are White Caucasian how the bloody hell can I, a White Caucasian, be 'racist'. Oh wait... you throw insults around regardless of the meaning ... no worries. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
" Then do something about it, or are you simply going to whinge and rant here
frankly we in Scotland don't give a sh*t to your ranting, its simply whinging and talk, no actions
Precisely what can I do about it? And I know you Jocks don't care. Sturgeon makes that perfectly clear. She has turned this ardent Unionist into someone who really hoped you would have had the guts to vote for Independence. But sadly you didn't because you know who has been baling you out. Like we baled your two banks out. The only banks to actually fail in 2008 / 9.
Given a chance I would repeal the Act of Union and let you lot sail off into the North Sea. Hadrian was right all those years ago. Scotland begged to join England when it was skint 300 years ago and we have been funding your lifestyle ever since. But what comes round goes round and Schadenfreude is a wonderful thing.
Scotland
free prescriptions, free education including college & university, free hospital parking, free sheltered housing and paid fuel bills for the elderly
Indeed. Because we English pay for your extravagance to the tune of £15 Bn a year. Anyway this year YOU will be paying. Tell me next year how great all the freebies are...
plenty of primary school places, low class numbers, same day doctors appointments,
Yes its wonderful when your country isn't overrun with immigrants filling those school places increasing class sizes and using our doctor's surgeries without paying. No wonder you voted to remain. The English paying your overdraft and barely an immigrant in sight. You need to come down where I and millions of others live and see what the real world is like. And then maybe YOU wouldn't be so keen on the damned EU."
See while yous are paying for everything any chance of freeeeeeee petrol for ma car lol as iv got dentist tomorow to get free veneers then opticians for freeee glasses lol |
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"
Yes its wonderful when your country isn't overrun with immigrants filling those school places increasing class sizes and using our doctor's surgeries without paying. No wonder you voted to remain. The English paying your overdraft and barely an immigrant in sight. You need to come down where I and millions of others live and see what the real world is like. And then maybe YOU wouldn't be so keen on the damned EU.
You should have saved this gem for the racism thread.
So you are saying I am a racist. Again? And I am supposed to just give a and say 'Thats OK chap'?
I'm surprised you can say anything seeing as you're so busy being overrun.
Our infrastructure, schools, housing, GP surgeries and hospitals are 'overrun' in that there is too much demand. And the OINS recently published a population count and said that the biggest increase has been caused by immigration. 630,000 new NI numbers were issued in 2015 which means 630,000 people can claim benefits, get housing, take jobs and need schools for their kids. In one year I call that pretty much being 'overrun'. I regret using the term in the context I did and I have apologised to the lady who objected. But the substance was correct.
You have been doing what the Leftie Luvvies have been doing since 2005 and calling anyone who is concerned about immigration, and especially those of us who voted leave, 'racists'. We are no such thing."
'Take jobs'?
Now I was always under the impression that a job had to be offered. I must find out how one 'takes' a job.
Your words betray you.
Say what you like, I'll think what I like and we're done. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
Yes its wonderful when your country isn't overrun with immigrants filling those school places increasing class sizes and using our doctor's surgeries without paying. No wonder you voted to remain. The English paying your overdraft and barely an immigrant in sight. You need to come down where I and millions of others live and see what the real world is like. And then maybe YOU wouldn't be so keen on the damned EU.
You should have saved this gem for the racism thread.
So you are saying I am a racist. Again? And I am supposed to just give a and say 'Thats OK chap'?
I'm surprised you can say anything seeing as you're so busy being overrun.
Our infrastructure, schools, housing, GP surgeries and hospitals are 'overrun' in that there is too much demand. And the OINS recently published a population count and said that the biggest increase has been caused by immigration. 630,000 new NI numbers were issued in 2015 which means 630,000 people can claim benefits, get housing, take jobs and need schools for their kids. In one year I call that pretty much being 'overrun'. I regret using the term in the context I did and I have apologised to the lady who objected. But the substance was correct.
You have been doing what the Leftie Luvvies have been doing since 2005 and calling anyone who is concerned about immigration, and especially those of us who voted leave, 'racists'. We are no such thing.
'Take jobs'?
Now I was always under the impression that a job had to be offered. I must find out how one 'takes' a job.
Your words betray you.
Say what you like, I'll think what I like and we're done. "
I believe people should make the positive case for immigration rather than demonise someone who has concerns. I've never seem a genuine racist apologise for anything so I think we should respect the apology.
In the medium to long run the benefits of immigration are pretty much a no brainer. However we should not turn a blind eye to the fact that local services aren't always well managed and in short term an area can see a negative effect. Personally I blame the government / council for this rather than the immigrants (every fucking private company manages to deal with this issue but for some reason public services think they have special problems). People should not be demonised for dicussing concerns about this you won't like the effect of pushing these voices underground. |
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"
Yes its wonderful when your country isn't overrun with immigrants filling those school places increasing class sizes and using our doctor's surgeries without paying. No wonder you voted to remain. The English paying your overdraft and barely an immigrant in sight. You need to come down where I and millions of others live and see what the real world is like. And then maybe YOU wouldn't be so keen on the damned EU.
You should have saved this gem for the racism thread.
So you are saying I am a racist. Again? And I am supposed to just give a and say 'Thats OK chap'?
I'm surprised you can say anything seeing as you're so busy being overrun.
Our infrastructure, schools, housing, GP surgeries and hospitals are 'overrun' in that there is too much demand. And the OINS recently published a population count and said that the biggest increase has been caused by immigration. 630,000 new NI numbers were issued in 2015 which means 630,000 people can claim benefits, get housing, take jobs and need schools for their kids. In one year I call that pretty much being 'overrun'. I regret using the term in the context I did and I have apologised to the lady who objected. But the substance was correct.
You have been doing what the Leftie Luvvies have been doing since 2005 and calling anyone who is concerned about immigration, and especially those of us who voted leave, 'racists'. We are no such thing.
'Take jobs'?
Now I was always under the impression that a job had to be offered. I must find out how one 'takes' a job.
Your words betray you.
Say what you like, I'll think what I like and we're done.
I believe people should make the positive case for immigration rather than demonise someone who has concerns. I've never seem a genuine racist apologise for anything so I think we should respect the apology.
In the medium to long run the benefits of immigration are pretty much a no brainer. However we should not turn a blind eye to the fact that local services aren't always well managed and in short term an area can see a negative effect. Personally I blame the government / council for this rather than the immigrants (every fucking private company manages to deal with this issue but for some reason public services think they have special problems). People should not be demonised for dicussing concerns about this you won't like the effect of pushing these voices underground. "
I've never tried to stop anyone from having an opinion, I just debate them when they have it. |
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"
I've never tried to stop anyone from having an opinion, I just debate them when they have it.
And they apologised so problem solved. "
Apologised for what? I never asked for or expected an apology for anything. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
I've never tried to stop anyone from having an opinion, I just debate them when they have it.
And they apologised so problem solved.
Apologised for what? I never asked for or expected an apology for anything. "
He apologised for the language used about immigrants, said it was from the heat of the moment. I would give someone the benefit of the doubt. As I say, I never heard a genuine racist apologise for anything. |
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"
I've never tried to stop anyone from having an opinion, I just debate them when they have it.
And they apologised so problem solved.
Apologised for what? I never asked for or expected an apology for anything.
He apologised for the language used about immigrants, said it was from the heat of the moment. I would give someone the benefit of the doubt. As I say, I never heard a genuine racist apologise for anything. "
If the language fits a pattern I'm not sure it counts for much.
Like I said people can have their opinions, I've never tried to stop them from doing so.
But that's a two way street. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
" 'Take jobs'?
Now I was always under the impression that a job had to be offered. I must find out how one 'takes' a job.
Your words betray you."
OK Old Son grab a coffee because here is how it works:
I was a Scania Master technician. A qualification I worked hard to achieve. We then had two Poles arrive and they were offered jobs (as you say) despite not speaking English and having no hand tools something that is a condition of the job in fitting workshops. The company provided those. when one of the guys asked for the same benefit he was refused and he left. Another Pole replaced him. I was tasked with instructing them on how we worked at Scania. One spoke German so I instructed the guy in German who translated to Polish. They then started working 14 and 16 hours a night, sleeping in trucks etc. the other 4 of us on shift refused to do more than 12 hours (from 4 in the afternoon) as we were inspecting 44 tonne trucks and signing safety certificates. We were then told to work 16 hours or be sacked. I refused, went on holiday and when I returned there were two new Poles working in my pit. I had a row with the manager and left. Another guy left with me. I then found out the Poles were being paid a Pound an hour more for two of them than I was paid as a skilled man.
The back story to this is that at first two Poles arrived. Then their Mothers, sisters, daughters etc etc arrived. When I left a total of 15 Polish immigrants had arrived and 3 British fitters had been forced out of jobs 'taken' by Polish workers undercutting us and working unsafe hours.
So yes I am concerned about immigration and its effects on local populations and infrastructure. If that makes me a racist then your dictionary needs updating ... |
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"Well it seems that the majority of scots trust nicola and the snp or they wouldnt be in office ,i for one hope she takes us out of the union and also gets rid of the scoungers you call a monarchy "
I think that you will find that the scroungers to which you refer make a significant contribution to the economy via tourism and other associated activities .
They are admired by most people throughout the world . |
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" 'Take jobs'?
Now I was always under the impression that a job had to be offered. I must find out how one 'takes' a job.
Your words betray you.
OK Old Son grab a coffee because here is how it works:
I was a Scania Master technician. A qualification I worked hard to achieve. We then had two Poles arrive and they were offered jobs (as you say) despite not speaking English and having no hand tools something that is a condition of the job in fitting workshops. The company provided those. when one of the guys asked for the same benefit he was refused and he left. Another Pole replaced him. I was tasked with instructing them on how we worked at Scania. One spoke German so I instructed the guy in German who translated to Polish. They then started working 14 and 16 hours a night, sleeping in trucks etc. the other 4 of us on shift refused to do more than 12 hours (from 4 in the afternoon) as we were inspecting 44 tonne trucks and signing safety certificates. We were then told to work 16 hours or be sacked. I refused, went on holiday and when I returned there were two new Poles working in my pit. I had a row with the manager and left. Another guy left with me. I then found out the Poles were being paid a Pound an hour more for two of them than I was paid as a skilled man.
The back story to this is that at first two Poles arrived. Then their Mothers, sisters, daughters etc etc arrived. When I left a total of 15 Polish immigrants had arrived and 3 British fitters had been forced out of jobs 'taken' by Polish workers undercutting us and working unsafe hours.
So yes I am concerned about immigration and its effects on local populations and infrastructure. If that makes me a racist then your dictionary needs updating ..."
So why is the focus of your anger not the company? |
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By *HaRiFMan
over a year ago
Beyond the shadows. |
" 'Take jobs'?
Now I was always under the impression that a job had to be offered. I must find out how one 'takes' a job.
Your words betray you.
OK Old Son grab a coffee because here is how it works:
I was a Scania Master technician. A qualification I worked hard to achieve. We then had two Poles arrive and they were offered jobs (as you say) despite not speaking English and having no hand tools something that is a condition of the job in fitting workshops. The company provided those. when one of the guys asked for the same benefit he was refused and he left. Another Pole replaced him. I was tasked with instructing them on how we worked at Scania. One spoke German so I instructed the guy in German who translated to Polish. They then started working 14 and 16 hours a night, sleeping in trucks etc. the other 4 of us on shift refused to do more than 12 hours (from 4 in the afternoon) as we were inspecting 44 tonne trucks and signing safety certificates. We were then told to work 16 hours or be sacked. I refused, went on holiday and when I returned there were two new Poles working in my pit. I had a row with the manager and left. Another guy left with me. I then found out the Poles were being paid a Pound an hour more for two of them than I was paid as a skilled man.
The back story to this is that at first two Poles arrived. Then their Mothers, sisters, daughters etc etc arrived. When I left a total of 15 Polish immigrants had arrived and 3 British fitters had been forced out of jobs 'taken' by Polish workers undercutting us and working unsafe hours.
So yes I am concerned about immigration and its effects on local populations and infrastructure. If that makes me a racist then your dictionary needs updating ..."
Yes but that's not the fault of the Polish workers. It's Scania's fault they are exploiting you and the Polish workers. |
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" 'Take jobs'?
Now I was always under the impression that a job had to be offered. I must find out how one 'takes' a job.
Your words betray you.
OK Old Son grab a coffee because here is how it works:
I was a Scania Master technician. A qualification I worked hard to achieve. We then had two Poles arrive and they were offered jobs (as you say) despite not speaking English and having no hand tools something that is a condition of the job in fitting workshops. The company provided those. when one of the guys asked for the same benefit he was refused and he left. Another Pole replaced him. I was tasked with instructing them on how we worked at Scania. One spoke German so I instructed the guy in German who translated to Polish. They then started working 14 and 16 hours a night, sleeping in trucks etc. the other 4 of us on shift refused to do more than 12 hours (from 4 in the afternoon) as we were inspecting 44 tonne trucks and signing safety certificates. We were then told to work 16 hours or be sacked. I refused, went on holiday and when I returned there were two new Poles working in my pit. I had a row with the manager and left. Another guy left with me. I then found out the Poles were being paid a Pound an hour more for two of them than I was paid as a skilled man.
The back story to this is that at first two Poles arrived. Then their Mothers, sisters, daughters etc etc arrived. When I left a total of 15 Polish immigrants had arrived and 3 British fitters had been forced out of jobs 'taken' by Polish workers undercutting us and working unsafe hours.
So yes I am concerned about immigration and its effects on local populations and infrastructure. If that makes me a racist then your dictionary needs updating ..."
I hope that you have found another job.
Anyone with common sense should be concerned about the effects of immigration and the demands on the infrastructure . At least you are in the majority .
Did the firm know that they were sleeping in the trucks or did they decide to turn a blind eye to it ?. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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" Then do something about it, or are you simply going to whinge and rant here
frankly we in Scotland don't give a sh*t to your ranting, its simply whinging and talk, no actions
Precisely what can I do about it? And I know you Jocks don't care. Sturgeon makes that perfectly clear. She has turned this ardent Unionist into someone who really hoped you would have had the guts to vote for Independence. But sadly you didn't because you know who has been baling you out. Like we baled your two banks out. The only banks to actually fail in 2008 / 9.
Given a chance I would repeal the Act of Union and let you lot sail off into the North Sea. Hadrian was right all those years ago. Scotland begged to join England when it was skint 300 years ago and we have been funding your lifestyle ever since. But what comes round goes round and Schadenfreude is a wonderful thing.
Scotland
free prescriptions, free education including college & university, free hospital parking, free sheltered housing and paid fuel bills for the elderly
Indeed. Because we English pay for your extravagance to the tune of £15 Bn a year. Anyway this year YOU will be paying. Tell me next year how great all the freebies are...
plenty of primary school places, low class numbers, same day doctors appointments,
Yes its wonderful when your country isn't overrun with immigrants filling those school places increasing class sizes and using our doctor's surgeries without paying. No wonder you voted to remain. The English paying your overdraft and barely an immigrant in sight. You need to come down where I and millions of others live and see what the real world is like. And then maybe YOU wouldn't be so keen on the damned EU."
Sounds like a touch of the Green eyed monster
now get back to work and keep us living in comfort |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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" I hope that you have found another job."
Yes I went to work driving the trucks I had been inspecting! And earned more money. well I did until the Poles got into that firm. Mind they are now up in arms because the Romanians are taking their jobs now. I took early retirement after a pension came due...
" Anyone with common sense should be concerned about the effects of immigration and the demands on the infrastructure . At least you are in the majority ."
Well that was my point. It wasn't the guys who replaced the Brits working there it was the all the people they brought with them. It is THIS which places demands on public services and housing (puts rents up and makes prices out of reach) The 'buy to rent' landlords love the 10 to a house East Europeans as they get twice the rent.
" Did the firm know that they were sleeping in the trucks or did they decide to turn a blind eye to it ?."
Yes and Yes. The owners complained of the oily bootmarks and then they found out who had been doing it. Nothing changed.
People above say it was the Company's fault and yes it was but the amount of cheap labour is hard to resist when you can improve profits. ANd the days of loyalty are long gone. Its been a rush to the bottom for working class blokes like me. Wages have not risen and in fact have gone down. A young Brit with a family and a mortgage (or rent) can't work for the money offered where young single immigrants living 10 to a house can. The Bank of England has said that for every 10% rise in migration 2% is lost of wages. We had 630,000 new NI Numbers issued last year ... it is just too many and we can't manage it. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Quite funny how the Spanish PM said they don't have the competency to negotiate in the EU at the end of Sturgeons day of meetings lol.
Hopefully it'll dilute her rampant mouth from blabbing along "
I suspect that a size nine wellington boot will not stop that woman from talking .... |
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