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China - Am I the only one who thinks they are to blame?
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It would seem that China have been running roughshod over world trade organization rules, and flooding world markets with cheap goods made at what would be a loss, had it not been for state subsidies. The noises they are making about Trump’s tariffs, are making it look as if the tariffs are unfair in them, like it is China who are the victims.
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/international/global-trends/china-froths-at-trump-tariffs-but-has-only-itself-to-blame/articleshow/120092413.cms?from=mdr
Couldn’t find any articles from western news media, but this one from India explains it pretty well. |
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Absolutely China has slowly been colonising the world without firing a shot through cheap exports and its economic projects throughout the developed world, which we hear very little about.
Meanwhile Western economies and societies are being hollowed out through easy, cheap imports. In the short term this has made us better off but at what cost to our societies? In the UK and EU case the Net Zero fixation has amplified the problem as we are further incentivised to shut down industrial production.
Maybe it’s a vain hope that domestic industry can ever be recovered but that’s what Trump is trying to do.
It’s tough. Where possible I try to buy British which isn’t too difficult with some foodstuffs, but otherwise if you can find British products at all they are probably five or ten times the price of imported stuff.
Maybe if more people bought British the prices would drop. And maybe there is an element of us shifting mindset to buying fewer more expensive locally produced products.
For many people that simply isn’t a price that they can pay though.
Certainly every product I buy nowadays I check its source and, unless there really isn’t an alternative, if it’s made in China it goes back on the shelf. |
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Meanwhile, the Chinese owners of British Steel have announced plans to close our very last steelworks in Scunthorpe Northeast Lincolnshire. Without the means to produce our own steel, we will have to import it. Probably from China… |
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"Meanwhile, the Chinese owners of British Steel have announced plans to close our very last steelworks in Scunthorpe Northeast Lincolnshire. Without the means to produce our own steel, we will have to import it. Probably from China…"
To be honest that's our own fault, successive governments have failed to look at the strategic importance of us as a nation having the fundamentals either in house or owned by a British company underlined by the strict policy that it can't go to hedge fund managers or foreign governments as we have also allowed with utilities and the railways..
The only strategy is for it to be renationalised, the costs will be high but what price in the future the inability to make what we need for defence or infrastructure..
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You could start by closing down places like Primark unless they only offer UK or EEA goods.
Then move on from there.
Could use it as a policy to sweep you to power.
Good luck with that one. 
Everyone would then boycott Chinese produced goods.
What about goods produced outside China but in Chinese owned factories?
The main problem is most of society is similar to me, hypocritical.
What I say I'll do, is different to what I actually do.
Don't believe me.
Take a look on here at the number of people who say they want to meet but sadly, never do.
It's something most politicians and business understand only too well.
What you say and what you do are two totally different things. |
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"It's pretty much true, but driven by the West's naivety and greed too. We've sat back and funded China's rise into an economic and military powerhouse that despises the West. "
Exactly this.
People are blaming China for our own laziness and greed. |
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Personally I do not blame China specifically for our trade deficit. What I’m talking about is so much worse. They are selling their shit so cheaply that it must be at a loss, but offset by financial help from the CCP. The rest of the world cannot compete, not just the UK, the whole world has been sucked in. I don’t blame Trump for starting the tariffs, this is nasty medicine, but it is the Chinese who will be choking on it. |
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"It's pretty much true, but driven by the West's naivety and greed too. We've sat back and funded China's rise into an economic and military powerhouse that despises the West.
Exactly this.
People are blaming China for our own laziness and greed."
On the money there |
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"Personally I do not blame China specifically for our trade deficit. What I’m talking about is so much worse. They are selling their shit so cheaply that it must be at a loss, but offset by financial help from the CCP. The rest of the world cannot compete, not just the UK, the whole world has been sucked in. I don’t blame Trump for starting the tariffs, this is nasty medicine, but it is the Chinese who will be choking on it."
Looking at the numbers, China imports a third in relation to what it exports to America..
I think I saw a figure of 3% of their imports comes from the States ..
The dollar is at a three year low, the bond market instability caused Trump to back off and China hold a lot of US bonds still..
The next tariff from Trump will only cause the same increase from China..
Not sure China will want to lose face over the numbers..
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I am not sure I would “blame” China for their economic approach. They are playing the game that everyone else has let them play.
Do I think that the rules they play to are the same as everyone else? No.
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Truly amazing. The same people who hail Margaret Thather as the savior of this country. The one who saved us from unions ect ect.
Now think a foreign government that decided to help lift it's population out of poverty and succeeded. Is to blame for the the western government policies to give free reign and become beholden to capitalists at the expense of the jobs and welfare of its own citizens.
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"Truly amazing. The same people who hail Margaret Thather as the savior of this country. The one who saved us from unions ect ect.
Now think a foreign government that decided to help lift it's population out of poverty and succeeded. Is to blame for the the western government policies to give free reign and become beholden to capitalists at the expense of the jobs and welfare of its own citizens.
"
 Mrs x |
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"Truly amazing. The same people who hail Margaret Thather as the savior of this country. The one who saved us from unions ect ect.
Now think a foreign government that decided to help lift it's population out of poverty and succeeded. Is to blame for the the western government policies to give free reign and become beholden to capitalists at the expense of the jobs and welfare of its own citizens.
"
|
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"I think it's called capitalism. Apparently the Americans invented it, got rich on the back of it and now are in a huff because China are a wee bit better at it."
I think you will find capitalism was invented in England with the advent of the Industrial revolution before it spread elsewhere. |
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"China are the ones that are crying foul, because the current tariffs are hitting them hardest. Can’t blame em for trying and all that.
Never mind."
Sounds like, in your world, one leader speaking for his countries self interests is to be admired but another doing the same is crying foul.
Although the cynic in me thinks Trump's motivation is more about profiteering from market manipulation than about the countries self interest.. |
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"Although the cynic in me thinks Trump's motivation is more about profiteering from market manipulation than about the countries self interest.."
I think Trump's motivations on tariffs are multiple.
1) He loves being the centre of attention.
2) Market manipulation.
3) He loves being the centre of attention.
4) It's a great distraction from the other things he's doing.
5) He loves being the centre of attention.
6) It plays into the xenophobia of some of his base.
7) He loves being the centre of attention.
8) He might actually believe his own rhetoric.
9) He loves being the centre of attention.
|
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"Although the cynic in me thinks Trump's motivation is more about profiteering from market manipulation than about the countries self interest..
I think Trump's motivations on tariffs are multiple.
1) He loves being the centre of attention.
2) Market manipulation.
3) He loves being the centre of attention.
4) It's a great distraction from the other things he's doing.
5) He loves being the centre of attention.
6) It plays into the xenophobia of some of his base.
7) He loves being the centre of attention.
8) He might actually believe his own rhetoric.
9) He loves being the centre of attention.
"
Do you have proof he loves being the centre of attention  |
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"Although the cynic in me thinks Trump's motivation is more about profiteering from market manipulation than about the countries self interest..
I think Trump's motivations on tariffs are multiple.
1) He loves being the centre of attention.
2) Market manipulation.
3) He loves being the centre of attention.
4) It's a great distraction from the other things he's doing.
5) He loves being the centre of attention.
6) It plays into the xenophobia of some of his base.
7) He loves being the centre of attention.
8) He might actually believe his own rhetoric.
9) He loves being the centre of attention.
Do you have proof he loves being the centre of attention "
To put it simply, Trump is a lunatic surrounded by sycophants.
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"Although the cynic in me thinks Trump's motivation is more about profiteering from market manipulation than about the countries self interest..
I think Trump's motivations on tariffs are multiple.
1) He loves being the centre of attention.
2) Market manipulation.
3) He loves being the centre of attention.
4) It's a great distraction from the other things he's doing.
5) He loves being the centre of attention.
6) It plays into the xenophobia of some of his base.
7) He loves being the centre of attention.
8) He might actually believe his own rhetoric.
9) He loves being the centre of attention.
"
He is very successful at being the centre of attention.
The TDS Lefties assure him of all the attention he needs on a global scale.
I’ve lost count of the number of Trump threads on this forum. |
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"Although the cynic in me thinks Trump's motivation is more about profiteering from market manipulation than about the countries self interest..
I think Trump's motivations on tariffs are multiple.
1) He loves being the centre of attention.
2) Market manipulation.
3) He loves being the centre of attention.
4) It's a great distraction from the other things he's doing.
5) He loves being the centre of attention.
6) It plays into the xenophobia of some of his base.
7) He loves being the centre of attention.
8) He might actually believe his own rhetoric.
9) He loves being the centre of attention.
He is very successful at being the centre of attention.
The TDS Lefties assure him of all the attention he needs on a global scale.
I’ve lost count of the number of Trump threads on this forum."
He's the very bestest ever at self promotion,it's true true very true. |
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"He is very successful at being the centre of attention.
The TDS Lefties assure him of all the attention he needs on a global scale.
I’ve lost count of the number of Trump threads on this forum."
And here you are drawn like a moth to a flame. |
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 |
By *otMe66Man 4 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
"Although the cynic in me thinks Trump's motivation is more about profiteering from market manipulation than about the countries self interest..
I think Trump's motivations on tariffs are multiple.
1) He loves being the centre of attention.
2) Market manipulation.
3) He loves being the centre of attention.
4) It's a great distraction from the other things he's doing.
5) He loves being the centre of attention.
6) It plays into the xenophobia of some of his base.
7) He loves being the centre of attention.
8) He might actually believe his own rhetoric.
9) He loves being the centre of attention.
"
You appear to be emotionally motivated, when it comes to Trump
 |
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By *abioMan 4 weeks ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
There are things I would point at china…. Currency manipulation, potential state subsidies, intellectual property theft ect
But this “trade war” if it was just poking china, then I might have more sympathy, but trump basically poked the world!
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"Meanwhile, the Chinese owners of British Steel have announced plans to close our very last steelworks in Scunthorpe Northeast Lincolnshire. Without the means to produce our own steel, we will have to import it. Probably from China…"
India would be an impot option and they all ready run a plat in Wales I think |
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"Truly amazing. The same people who hail Margaret Thather as the savior of this country. The one who saved us from unions ect ect.
Now think a foreign government that decided to help lift it's population out of poverty and succeeded. Is to blame for the the western government policies to give free reign and become beholden to capitalists at the expense of the jobs and welfare of its own citizens.
"
Has China lifted its citizens out of poverty? I imagine that depends very much on where they live and who they know. China’s economic statistics are well dodgy so it’s difficult to tell what’s going on there.
As for the current state of play being “Thatcher’s fault” she ceased being PM in 1991.
Some import figures from China to the UK:
1988: £25 million
1993: £2 billion
2012: £37 billion
2022: £81 billion
In 1993 China was the UK’s 15th bigger importer. Up to biggest importer by 2021.
|
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"Truly amazing. The same people who hail Margaret Thather as the savior of this country. The one who saved us from unions ect ect.
Now think a foreign government that decided to help lift it's population out of poverty and succeeded. Is to blame for the the western government policies to give free reign and become beholden to capitalists at the expense of the jobs and welfare of its own citizens.
Has China lifted its citizens out of poverty? I imagine that depends very much on where they live and who they know. China’s economic statistics are well dodgy so it’s difficult to tell what’s going on there.
As for the current state of play being “Thatcher’s fault” she ceased being PM in 1991.
Some import figures from China to the UK:
1988: £25 million
1993: £2 billion
2012: £37 billion
2022: £81 billion
In 1993 China was the UK’s 15th bigger importer. Up to biggest importer by 2021.
"
Even the richest country in the world still has extreme poverty in certainparts of the country. So when your talking about lifting a huge population, double the population of Europe, I would say they have done a great job to get where they are.
It's not their fault that the west decided to outsource manufacturing jobs, to let companies chase profits for its shareholders at the expense of those jobs in the west.
Yes Thatcher and Reagan were in power a long time ago and are long gone. But their decisions and legacy is showing its results now.
We keep hearing about the virtues of their policies from their fan boys on here. So it's only fair their names are mentioned in things where it hasn't gone to plan. |
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"Truly amazing. The same people who hail Margaret Thather as the savior of this country. The one who saved us from unions ect ect.
Now think a foreign government that decided to help lift it's population out of poverty and succeeded. Is to blame for the the western government policies to give free reign and become beholden to capitalists at the expense of the jobs and welfare of its own citizens.
Has China lifted its citizens out of poverty? I imagine that depends very much on where they live and who they know. China’s economic statistics are well dodgy so it’s difficult to tell what’s going on there.
As for the current state of play being “Thatcher’s fault” she ceased being PM in 1991.
Some import figures from China to the UK:
1988: £25 million
1993: £2 billion
2012: £37 billion
2022: £81 billion
In 1993 China was the UK’s 15th bigger importer. Up to biggest importer by 2021.
"
Your figures about how much the UK imports from China has risen. Is probably reflected for most western countries.
But did China turn up at our coast like the East India company with a army and force the trade upon us.
Or did the Industrialist of this country with the blessing of our political class, go over to China and chase cheap labour. |
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"Truly amazing. The same people who hail Margaret Thather as the savior of this country. The one who saved us from unions ect ect.
Now think a foreign government that decided to help lift it's population out of poverty and succeeded. Is to blame for the the western government policies to give free reign and become beholden to capitalists at the expense of the jobs and welfare of its own citizens.
Has China lifted its citizens out of poverty? I imagine that depends very much on where they live and who they know. China’s economic statistics are well dodgy so it’s difficult to tell what’s going on there.
As for the current state of play being “Thatcher’s fault” she ceased being PM in 1991.
Some import figures from China to the UK:
1988: £25 million
1993: £2 billion
2012: £37 billion
2022: £81 billion
In 1993 China was the UK’s 15th bigger importer. Up to biggest importer by 2021.
Your figures about how much the UK imports from China has risen. Is probably reflected for most western countries.
But did China turn up at our coast like the East India company with a army and force the trade upon us.
Or did the Industrialist of this country with the blessing of our political class, go over to China and chase cheap labour. "
Yes maybe we should reduce wages here to a third of what they are in China, then we could be what China is today. |
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"Truly amazing. The same people who hail Margaret Thather as the savior of this country. The one who saved us from unions ect ect.
Now think a foreign government that decided to help lift it's population out of poverty and succeeded. Is to blame for the the western government policies to give free reign and become beholden to capitalists at the expense of the jobs and welfare of its own citizens.
Has China lifted its citizens out of poverty? I imagine that depends very much on where they live and who they know. China’s economic statistics are well dodgy so it’s difficult to tell what’s going on there.
As for the current state of play being “Thatcher’s fault” she ceased being PM in 1991.
Some import figures from China to the UK:
1988: £25 million
1993: £2 billion
2012: £37 billion
2022: £81 billion
In 1993 China was the UK’s 15th bigger importer. Up to biggest importer by 2021.
"
Chinese work 49 hours a week to achieve their country’s gdp
Uk 36.8 hours
Reap what you sow.
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"Truly amazing. The same people who hail Margaret Thather as the savior of this country. The one who saved us from unions ect ect.
Now think a foreign government that decided to help lift it's population out of poverty and succeeded. Is to blame for the the western government policies to give free reign and become beholden to capitalists at the expense of the jobs and welfare of its own citizens.
Has China lifted its citizens out of poverty? I imagine that depends very much on where they live and who they know. China’s economic statistics are well dodgy so it’s difficult to tell what’s going on there.
As for the current state of play being “Thatcher’s fault” she ceased being PM in 1991.
Some import figures from China to the UK:
1988: £25 million
1993: £2 billion
2012: £37 billion
2022: £81 billion
In 1993 China was the UK’s 15th bigger importer. Up to biggest importer by 2021.
Your figures about how much the UK imports from China has risen. Is probably reflected for most western countries.
But did China turn up at our coast like the East India company with a army and force the trade upon us.
Or did the Industrialist of this country with the blessing of our political class, go over to China and chase cheap labour.
Yes maybe we should reduce wages here to a third of what they are in China, then we could be what China is today. "
Or maybe we could have stopped promoting globalisation in the first place. Isn't that why the average Joe, left behind by this policy, are voting for the Trump's and the Farages now. |
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Message from Mr Chow (Xi Jinping).
"You're my bitches now, haa haa haa haa, read it and weep bitches"
"Nobody bad like Mr Chow, Haa haa haa"
"Mr Chow go Trumpet by the balls hee hee hee"
Sadly we flirt with the dragon we get burnt, west too slow acting. What happened to Reeves Chinese connections, now not saving Steel company.
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"Message from Mr Chow (Xi Jinping).
"You're my bitches now, haa haa haa haa, read it and weep bitches"
"Nobody bad like Mr Chow, Haa haa haa"
"Mr Chow go Trumpet by the balls hee hee hee"
Sadly we flirt with the dragon we get burnt, west too slow acting. What happened to Reeves Chinese connections, now not saving Steel company.
"
We can’t blame China for our deindustrialisation, demilitarisation, significantly reduced farming, a bad Brexit, and decades of cuts to public services and lack of investment.
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"Or maybe we could have stopped promoting globalisation in the first place. Isn't that why the average Joe, left behind by this policy, are voting for the Trump's and the Farages now."
I suppose it really boils down to :
.
Q. Dear Average Joe, would you like an iPhone ?
AJ : Yes please.
Q : Sure. That'll be $1500 bucks
AJ : What ? That's too much.
Q : That's the made in the USA price.
AJ : I'm not paying that
A : Ok, how does $1199 sound ?
AJ : Much better. Ok, I'll take it. Where is made ?
Q : China.
AJ : Yeah, whatever.
.
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My "workings" were based on an article.
(Bank of America Securities analyst Wamsi Mohan said in a Thursday (10/4/5) note that the iPhone 16 Pro, which is currently priced at $1,199, could increase 25% based on labour costs alone. That would make it a roughly $1,500 device. |
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"Or maybe we could have stopped promoting globalisation in the first place. Isn't that why the average Joe, left behind by this policy, are voting for the Trump's and the Farages now.
I suppose it really boils down to :
.
Q. Dear Average Joe, would you like an iPhone ?
AJ : Yes please.
Q : Sure. That'll be $1500 bucks
AJ : What ? That's too much.
Q : That's the made in the USA price.
AJ : I'm not paying that
A : Ok, how does $1199 sound ?
AJ : Much better. Ok, I'll take it. Where is made ?
Q : China.
AJ : Yeah, whatever.
.
"
Once that genie is out the bottle, it's hard to put it back, as Trump is discovering. |
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By *otMe66Man 3 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
The tariffs are aimed at the China, but the impact is on those companies that use China for their cheap production and technical delivery.
We get lower priced goods, but at what real term costs? As mentioned IP violations, but also jobs and money pouring out of the country.
There needs to be a balance, is that bringing back home manufacturing and production, or is it going to be a delaying tactic for 4 years. |
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By *appyPandaMan 3 weeks ago
Kilkenny, but Dublin is more fun |
Honestly it's well deserved. Much of the global financial bureaucracy like the IMF and World Bank were set up in order to maintain western dominance over the world in an era that more and more countries in the global south were breaking free of colonialism and trying to seek their independence to build their societies their own way. That was a major threat to the powerful economies at the time whose growth had only occurred due to access to the goods from those regions, and history is filled with examples of the brutality used in fighting against these independence movements and western nations sponsoring coups to replace somewhat socialist folk with far worse dictators as long as they serve western interests (Allende being replaced by Pinochet is a prime example, and so much of the current chaos in the middle east can very easily be traced back to the UK and US overthrowing Mosaddegh in Iran in 1953 because he wanted to nationalise the oil industry).
Not a fan of China at all, but the current global economy is set up in a way that prioritises the interests of a minority of the global population, and the global south gives far far more to the global north than it receives in return when you actually think about it in terms of resources and manpower.
It's time we recognise we need a new way of doing things, and it's naive as hell to cling onto this and still try to be seen as the side of "good". |
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"Honestly it's well deserved. Much of the global financial bureaucracy like the IMF and World Bank were set up in order to maintain western dominance over the world in an era that more and more countries in the global south were breaking free of colonialism and trying to seek their independence to build their societies their own way. That was a major threat to the powerful economies at the time whose growth had only occurred due to access to the goods from those regions, and history is filled with examples of the brutality used in fighting against these independence movements and western nations sponsoring coups to replace somewhat socialist folk with far worse dictators as long as they serve western interests (Allende being replaced by Pinochet is a prime example, and so much of the current chaos in the middle east can very easily be traced back to the UK and US overthrowing Mosaddegh in Iran in 1953 because he wanted to nationalise the oil industry).
Not a fan of China at all, but the current global economy is set up in a way that prioritises the interests of a minority of the global population, and the global south gives far far more to the global north than it receives in return when you actually think about it in terms of resources and manpower.
It's time we recognise we need a new way of doing things, and it's naive as hell to cling onto this and still try to be seen as the side of "good". "
Thought-provoking and ultimately a salient observation in that businesses are inherently set up to mostly benefit a few, and rely on a variety of practices to maintain their control and dominance in their field.
.
I often think, if a space-faring other alien civilisation landed tomorrow and said "Oh ! You don't know how to manipulate dark energy ? We cracked that aeons ago. Every one of our population has a DE box at home. It runs all their power needs for free and it is limitless. We can give the tech to you if you like ?", would we let them ? Would companies be falling over themselves for it ? And if the alien race said, "Oh no. It's not for sale. It's a gift. We are a benevolent race. We've just uploaded the plans to the open source community, fill yer boots".
I can imagine there'd be some "wobbles" but I'd be curious to know if we'd oppose them. Try and stop them even ? |
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