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Trump's Tariffs Part 2
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"I’m all ears on the realities — and I’m genuinely interested in how this plays out. But I don’t back myself into a corner by assuming that just because it’s a Trump policy, it must be bad.
Too much of political debate has become about picking a side, regardless of the policy or the outcome. That’s part of the problem. I’d rather judge it on results than preconceptions, and discuss the what if's etc. But everything related to Trump seems to get shut down because “Trump bad"."
I think few people who are arguing against Trump's policies are doing so only because they have some personal animostity towards the person.
In debate it's always best to avoid ad hominem.
Trump, the Tea Party, MAGA and the Heritage Foundation's ideas are I think corrosive. They represent a reactionary leap backwards especially for the USA but also for the entire planet.
Their ideas aren't based on careful analysis of what needs to be done but on self-serving arguments, irrationality and emotions that appeal to some mythical former time that never existed.
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By *abioMan 7 days ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"I’m all ears on the realities — and I’m genuinely interested in how this plays out. But I don’t back myself into a corner by assuming that just because it’s a Trump policy, it must be bad.
Too much of political debate has become about picking a side, regardless of the policy or the outcome. That’s part of the problem. I’d rather judge it on results than preconceptions, and discuss the what if's etc. But everything related to Trump seems to get shut down because “Trump bad".
"
It’s not a case of trump bad… more trump mad!
If you want the reality of the situation… take off your shoes and see where they are made!
Same with your shirts…. If you have children, see where the toys are made….
I’m guessing… not America
Where you woke up this morning… that hot drink… tea, coffee, hot chocolate if you are decadent….. not American
Amazon have now taken the position of taken certain items off the shelves… because they know what price they need to charge for tariffs |
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‘ Some analysts suggested that America's central bank - the US Federal Reserve - might be forced to step in if turbulence continues, in a move reminiscent of the Bank of England's emergency action in 2022 following Liz Truss's mini-Budget.
"We see no other option for the Fed but to step in with emergency purchases of US Treasuries to stabilise the bond market," said George Saravelos, global head of FX research at Deutsche Bank.
"We are entering uncharted territory," he said, adding that it was "very hard" to predict how markets would react in the coming days as the bond market suggested investors had "lost faith in US assets". (BBC) |
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By *otMe66Man 7 days ago
Terra Firma |
"I’m all ears on the realities — and I’m genuinely interested in how this plays out. But I don’t back myself into a corner by assuming that just because it’s a Trump policy, it must be bad.
Too much of political debate has become about picking a side, regardless of the policy or the outcome. That’s part of the problem. I’d rather judge it on results than preconceptions, and discuss the what if's etc. But everything related to Trump seems to get shut down because “Trump bad".
It’s not a case of trump bad… more trump mad!
If you want the reality of the situation… take off your shoes and see where they are made!
Same with your shirts…. If you have children, see where the toys are made….
I’m guessing… not America
Where you woke up this morning… that hot drink… tea, coffee, hot chocolate if you are decadent….. not American
Amazon have now taken the position of taken certain items off the shelves… because they know what price they need to charge for tariffs"
I understand all of this and it’s exactly what I was talking about at the start of the tariff conversation, 97% of clothing imported into the US, consumer price shocks, and so on.
But we have moved on from that over the last week. We are now at a point that feels very similar to the Truss fallout, the media creating a frenzy of uncertainty, provoking knee jerk reactions from pension fund managers and central banks.
The only level headed comment I’ve seen came from Starmer and you know he is far from my favourite politician. But he is right, things need to change.
We can’t remain so reliant on other nations for goods and services to the point where our entire society is at risk if trade is cut off, especially not when that reliance involves regimes we openly consider hostile.
Which brings me back to Trump, is he wrong to be challenging tariffs? Is he wrong to be challenging the reliance on China? How he is going about it is another question. |
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One of the most curious features about this debate is the total lack of criticism or critical analysis of globalisation from the political left.
No concern for the conditions of those workers who make most of our cheap imported crap; no concern for the devastating effects on Western jobs and living standards; no concern for the huge environmental cost of the current global trade model.
I don't think Trump has any concern for these either, and his policies may well be a disaster, but he is at least asking some good questions and addressing those working class Americans who the Democrats used to represent.
I guess it's another sign of how identity politics has hollowed out the soul and purpose of left wing politics. |
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By *habMan 7 days ago
Boomtown |
"‘ Some analysts suggested that America's central bank - the US Federal Reserve - might be forced to step in if turbulence continues, in a move reminiscent of the Bank of England's emergency action in 2022 following Liz Truss's mini-Budget.
"We see no other option for the Fed but to step in with emergency purchases of US Treasuries to stabilise the bond market," said George Saravelos, global head of FX research at Deutsche Bank.
"We are entering uncharted territory," he said, adding that it was "very hard" to predict how markets would react in the coming days as the bond market suggested investors had "lost faith in US assets". (BBC)"
So the Fed will print their own money to buy their own bonds ??
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"One of the most curious features about this debate is the total lack of criticism or critical analysis of globalisation from the political left.
No concern for the conditions of those workers who make most of our cheap imported crap; no concern for the devastating effects on Western jobs and living standards; no concern for the huge environmental cost of the current global trade model.
I don't think Trump has any concern for these either, and his policies may well be a disaster, but he is at least asking some good questions and addressing those working class Americans who the Democrats used to represent.
I guess it's another sign of how identity politics has hollowed out the soul and purpose of left wing politics. "
Oh dear.
The right are of course extremely concerned about these matters. As I write this there are tens of thousands of right-wing anti-globalists on the streets protesting about environmental issues and workers rights.
And how exactly are identity politics related to protectionism?
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"So the Fed will print their own money to buy their own bonds ??"
I think for now they are just ramping up the yields. A 10 year bond has gone from 4% to 4.45% in the last few days.
This means that the US is now paying much more to service its debt. 10 year yields were about 1.5% four years ago AFIK. |
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"One of the most curious features about this debate is the total lack of criticism or critical analysis of globalisation from the political left.
No concern for the conditions of those workers who make most of our cheap imported crap; no concern for the devastating effects on Western jobs and living standards; no concern for the huge environmental cost of the current global trade model.
I don't think Trump has any concern for these either, and his policies may well be a disaster, but he is at least asking some good questions and addressing those working class Americans who the Democrats used to represent.
I guess it's another sign of how identity politics has hollowed out the soul and purpose of left wing politics. "
Yes it’s amazing how aligned the Authoritarian Left, Big Government, Big Green, Big Pharma, Big Tech (Musk aside) and Big Banks have become over the past few decades.
I guess we either accept that the future is buying Chinese crap (Net Zero will just accelerate that trend) and that the UK’s role in the future is for a small number of overpaid unproductive government employees and highly skilled workers to do well out of it while the masses live on benefits or carry bags for the rich few, or try and do something to change things.
Personally I don’t think living behind a security gate surrounded by Chinese crap while a bunch of poorly vetted foreigners wipe my arse and paint my house is that appealing. |
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"Yes it’s amazing how aligned the Authoritarian Left, Big Government, Big Green, Big Pharma, Big Tech (Musk aside) and Big Banks have become over the past few decades.
I guess we either accept that the future is buying Chinese crap (Net Zero will just accelerate that trend) and that the UK’s role in the future is for a small number of overpaid unproductive government employees and highly skilled workers to do well out of it while the masses live on benefits or carry bags for the rich few, or try and do something to change things.
Personally I don’t think living behind a security gate surrounded by Chinese crap while a bunch of poorly vetted foreigners wipe my arse and paint my house is that appealing."
When you say you're going to "try and do something to change things", what exactly do you mean?
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"One of the most curious features about this debate is the total lack of criticism or critical analysis of globalisation from the political left.
No concern for the conditions of those workers who make most of our cheap imported crap; no concern for the devastating effects on Western jobs and living standards; no concern for the huge environmental cost of the current global trade model.
I don't think Trump has any concern for these either, and his policies may well be a disaster, but he is at least asking some good questions and addressing those working class Americans who the Democrats used to represent.
I guess it's another sign of how identity politics has hollowed out the soul and purpose of left wing politics.
Yes it’s amazing how aligned the Authoritarian Left, Big Government, Big Green, Big Pharma, Big Tech (Musk aside) and Big Banks have become over the past few decades.
I guess we either accept that the future is buying Chinese crap (Net Zero will just accelerate that trend) and that the UK’s role in the future is for a small number of overpaid unproductive government employees and highly skilled workers to do well out of it while the masses live on benefits or carry bags for the rich few, or try and do something to change things.
Personally I don’t think living behind a security gate surrounded by Chinese crap while a bunch of poorly vetted foreigners wipe my arse and paint my house is that appealing."
Unlimited, uncontrolled immigration has been a core left wing policy of the last 25 years, driving down wages and destroying social cohesion and security - all the issues the left used to care about.
Also of course a key reason why Trump was elected. |
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"One of the most curious features about this debate is the total lack of criticism or critical analysis of globalisation from the political left.
"
Maybe because globalisation isn't anything to do with being politically left or right wing  |
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So if someone wants to buy a Clittickler 5000 from GChina the new tariffs are going to up the price by over 100% so the consumer gets hit.
Sales of the Clittickler 5000 will then drop and drop the the share value.
He hasn't really thought this through despite the 90 day pause. |
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By *otMe66Man 7 days ago
Terra Firma |
"Trump blinked!!! 90 day pause on the “non retaliation” countries
So the basic 10% global tariff will stay….
China will go up to 125%"
I would expect invites for talks to be arranged over the next 90 days, I don’t see it as a backdown. |
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By *abioMan 7 days ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"Trump blinked!!! 90 day pause on the “non retaliation” countries
So the basic 10% global tariff will stay….
China will go up to 125%
I would expect invites for talks to be arranged over the next 90 days, I don’t see it as a backdown. "
If it takes on average, for the simplest trade deal to take 3 years to do….
…..And he said every countries deal would be a bespoke deal….
….. and they claim 75 countries have “gotten in touch” saying they want a deal….
What does a 90 day pause give you?
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By *abioMan 7 days ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
Also…. Any you could think more sinister… if you are putting out a tweet this morning saying “now is a good time to buy shares” and then 4 hrs later you get the 90 day pause announcement… I hate to suggest market manipulation and insider trading….. but…. Smells! |
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By *abioMan 7 days ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"This is getting very confusing "
Basically what you need to know is that all countries will have a 10% global tariff on them…
All the extra “reciprocal tariffs” have been “paused” for 90 days (because the EU tariffs had been announced but not imposed if the EU decide not to go ahead, they will go back to the 10%)
The only exception is china, because their retaliation tariff was being applied… they go up from 104% to 125%
There … TLDR  |
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"Also…. Any you could think more sinister… if you are putting out a tweet this morning saying “now is a good time to buy shares” and then 4 hrs later you get the 90 day pause announcement… I hate to suggest market manipulation and insider trading….. but…. Smells! "
If it walks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck. |
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Hang on, a 90 day pause at 10% tariffs for all but China. Shares are soaring. Hoorah!! A cynic might suspect market manipulation, but no doubt it's a very carefully planned move by the master strategist. |
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By *abioMan 7 days ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"Hang on, a 90 day pause at 10% tariffs for all but China. Shares are soaring. Hoorah!! A cynic might suspect market manipulation, but no doubt it's a very carefully planned move by the master strategist."
……..or (and I hate to not suggest it wasn’t part of the plan) the market reaction to the “fake tweet” yesterday showed him the get out  |
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"Hang on, a 90 day pause at 10% tariffs for all but China. Shares are soaring. Hoorah!! A cynic might suspect market manipulation, but no doubt it's a very carefully planned move by the master strategist.
……..or (and I hate to not suggest it wasn’t part of the plan) the market reaction to the “fake tweet” yesterday showed him the get out "
I don’t think market manipulation is the reason for these decisions - that is too transparent and easily analysed.
I think the answer is either something incredibly prosaic like they realised they didn’t have enough trade negotiators to “take the calls” or else something has happened in the Treasury markets and it has scared them. You lose confidence in the bond markets and you are fucked - especially if you are running a huge government deficit.
It wouldn’t surprise me if you are getting sales by other governments or sovereign wealth funds. That would be huge if these types of people are moving out of treasury’s. |
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"One of the most curious features about this debate is the total lack of criticism or critical analysis of globalisation from the political left.
Maybe because globalisation isn't anything to do with being politically left or right wing "
Globalisation has clearly been massively damaging to those who the political left have traditionally claimed to represent, yet they have been among its loudest cheerleaders. |
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By *otMe66Man 7 days ago
Terra Firma |
"Trump blinked!!! 90 day pause on the “non retaliation” countries
So the basic 10% global tariff will stay….
China will go up to 125%
I would expect invites for talks to be arranged over the next 90 days, I don’t see it as a backdown.
If it takes on average, for the simplest trade deal to take 3 years to do….
…..And he said every countries deal would be a bespoke deal….
….. and they claim 75 countries have “gotten in touch” saying they want a deal….
What does a 90 day pause give you?
"
Slow down
Detailed trade deals, rules of origin, standards, and transfer yes, those take time. But tariff adjustments on existing import - export agreements don’t take three years, unless of course the EU is at the table.
Where this ends, I have no idea. But what I do know is, I’m thankful I don’t get sucked into the chaos Trumps creates.
So answering your question, 90 days brings the willing to the table. |
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By *otMe66Man 7 days ago
Terra Firma |
"Also…. Any you could think more sinister… if you are putting out a tweet this morning saying “now is a good time to buy shares” and then 4 hrs later you get the 90 day pause announcement… I hate to suggest market manipulation and insider trading….. but…. Smells! "
And I’m guessing that has nothing to do with trying to settle the markets? Out of interest, which shares did he actually recommend? |
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By *otMe66Man 7 days ago
Terra Firma |
"Hang on, a 90 day pause at 10% tariffs for all but China. Shares are soaring. Hoorah!! A cynic might suspect market manipulation, but no doubt it's a very carefully planned move by the master strategist.
……..or (and I hate to not suggest it wasn’t part of the plan) the market reaction to the “fake tweet” yesterday showed him the get out
I don’t think market manipulation is the reason for these decisions - that is too transparent and easily analysed.
I think the answer is either something incredibly prosaic like they realised they didn’t have enough trade negotiators to “take the calls” or else something has happened in the Treasury markets and it has scared them. You lose confidence in the bond markets and you are fucked - especially if you are running a huge government deficit.
It wouldn’t surprise me if you are getting sales by other governments or sovereign wealth funds. That would be huge if these types of people are moving out of treasury’s."
Shock and awe, let the dust settle and see where everything lands. |
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By *abioMan 6 days ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"Also…. Any you could think more sinister… if you are putting out a tweet this morning saying “now is a good time to buy shares” and then 4 hrs later you get the 90 day pause announcement… I hate to suggest market manipulation and insider trading….. but…. Smells!
And I’m guessing that has nothing to do with trying to settle the markets? Out of interest, which shares did he actually recommend?"
Well… since every one of the 100 in the NYSE and the NASDAQ were in the red…. I think we could have said “any” |
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A bit of me thinks this whole thing was planned to get 10% on all countries from the start. If he had just announced 10% on everyone then the markets would react badly and he would have had little room to back down when things got bad. Imposing much higher tariffs on many countries shifted the attention onto them mainly. Then you get this reversal or pause and everyone is celebrating the fact they are in the 10% club, totally ignoring they now pay more to import into America than before. Also China has become a bit isolated since they retaliated quickly. It's just a hunch, no real evidence or inside information. |
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It looks like he was firing from the hip, which he's got previous for then having to backtrack and literally talk bollocks which is echoed by his Uber loyal and swallowed by some of his base..
The bonds and how that was potentially heading and the effects reigned him in but he's a loose canon .. |
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it seems musk has appeared in a few podcast interviews in the last 48hrs mentioning that owing to increasing tariffs, tesla has little option but move out of the usa altogether. and it seems he wasn't the only billionaire industrialst muttering the same thing.
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"it seems musk has appeared in a few podcast interviews in the last 48hrs mentioning that owing to increasing tariffs, tesla has little option but move out of the usa altogether. and it seems he wasn't the only billionaire industrialst muttering the same thing.
"
Explain that to me - Tesla is going to stop making cars in the US and make them outside and then import them back into the US? Wouldn’t that expose their _entire_ cost to US tariffs? Or are you saying they just wouldn’t sell in the US anymore? |
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"it seems musk has appeared in a few podcast interviews in the last 48hrs mentioning that owing to increasing tariffs, tesla has little option but move out of the usa altogether. and it seems he wasn't the only billionaire industrialst muttering the same thing.
Explain that to me - Tesla is going to stop making cars in the US and make them outside and then import them back into the US? Wouldn’t that expose their _entire_ cost to US tariffs? Or are you saying they just wouldn’t sell in the US anymore? "
i'm not saying anything .... i'm merely highlighting musks latest musings, which flip flop as much as trump does.
he seemed to be reacting to having to pay huge taxes on raw materials and components all of a sudden. he seemed to be saying it's not worth his while being based in america owing to the tariffs and he also said that there should free movement of people between europe and the northern americas. |
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"it seems musk has appeared in a few podcast interviews in the last 48hrs mentioning that owing to increasing tariffs, tesla has little option but move out of the usa altogether. and it seems he wasn't the only billionaire industrialst muttering the same thing.
Explain that to me - Tesla is going to stop making cars in the US and make them outside and then import them back into the US? Wouldn’t that expose their _entire_ cost to US tariffs? Or are you saying they just wouldn’t sell in the US anymore?
i'm not saying anything .... i'm merely highlighting musks latest musings, which flip flop as much as trump does.
he seemed to be reacting to having to pay huge taxes on raw materials and components all of a sudden. he seemed to be saying it's not worth his while being based in america owing to the tariffs and he also said that there should free movement of people between europe and the northern americas."
Probably more to the fact that he spent 250 million to elect Trump, only to lose 195 billion for all his hard work. |
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"It is interesting that the question I posed further up the thread didn't receive an answer
Is Trump wrong to want to reduce the US trade deficit with the US trading partners? "
No leader is wrong in trying to improve the economic prosperity of their nation..
But it has had the similarity akin to a bloke who owns a house that needs a complete new roof and decides to get rid of the old by torching it..
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"Also…. Any you could think more sinister… if you are putting out a tweet this morning saying “now is a good time to buy shares” and then 4 hrs later you get the 90 day pause announcement… I hate to suggest market manipulation and insider trading….. but…. Smells! "
Exactly what I thought.
The rich get richer. |
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"It is interesting that the question I posed further up the thread didn't receive an answer
Is Trump wrong to want to reduce the US trade deficit with the US trading partners? "
The answer is "it depends".
Some trade deficits are unavoidable because some goods can't be produced in the US.
Some trade deficits are desirable because it would cost the US more to produce some goods inside the US than it would to import them. I mean the overall costs including jobs.
Some trade deficits are just sensible. Division of labour is an established concept in efficient planning.
But yes some trade deficits are definitely undesirable. Whether taxing imports is the answer isn't clear cut though. Well targeted tariffs can work but blanket tariffs are a blunt weapon.
There are many other strategies for reducing trade deficits but these aren't the quick fixes that Trump and his supporters want.
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By *otMe66Man 6 days ago
Terra Firma |
"It is interesting that the question I posed further up the thread didn't receive an answer
Is Trump wrong to want to reduce the US trade deficit with the US trading partners?
No leader is wrong in trying to improve the economic prosperity of their nation..
But it has had the similarity akin to a bloke who owns a house that needs a complete new roof and decides to get rid of the old by torching it..
"
That is the way Trump is and it wont change, but the objective he has is to reduce the US deficit is good. |
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By *otMe66Man 6 days ago
Terra Firma |
"Also…. Any you could think more sinister… if you are putting out a tweet this morning saying “now is a good time to buy shares” and then 4 hrs later you get the 90 day pause announcement… I hate to suggest market manipulation and insider trading….. but…. Smells!
Exactly what I thought.
The rich get richer."
Is the act of gambling on the stock market, only for the rich? |
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"It is interesting that the question I posed further up the thread didn't receive an answer
Is Trump wrong to want to reduce the US trade deficit with the US trading partners?
The answer is "it depends".
Some trade deficits are unavoidable because some goods can't be produced in the US.
Some trade deficits are desirable because it would cost the US more to produce some goods inside the US than it would to import them. I mean the overall costs including jobs.
Some trade deficits are just sensible. Division of labour is an established concept in efficient planning.
But yes some trade deficits are definitely undesirable. Whether taxing imports is the answer isn't clear cut though. Well targeted tariffs can work but blanket tariffs are a blunt weapon.
There are many other strategies for reducing trade deficits but these aren't the quick fixes that Trump and his supporters want.
"
Agree with above entirely ….. building up global supply chains, which are complex and convoluted to control in any instance also becomes an enormous barrier for any company to suddenly decide to insource all their own manufacturing/production activities. Trump’s tactics of imposing tariffs on products manufactured outside the US ‘may’ influence a number of businesses (those with simple supply chains and/or low skilled manufacturing activities) but those large enterprises requiring highly skilled labour forces, digital technologies, advanced business processes to operate Trump is pissing in the wind.
China actually have a far bigger gun to Trumps head than just ramping up tariffs, as the global leader in many high-tech products nevermind operating with an enormous highly-skilled and extremely educated workforces they can play a far longer game than anything the US is equipped for. It’s also a fallacy to believe China represents low-cost production by nature of the volume of its population and low cost of living. Chinese labour in the major industries of digital technology, medicine, transport, metals production, civil engineering, energy and communications are on a par if not better paid than most of western countries in comparable sectors.
Trump is a an immature popularist appealing solely to his uneducated facist persuaded followers. The world would benefit immensely from replacing air-time on tariffs with discussion on what the impact of maga psychology will be like after trumps demise (age is not on his side). |
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"It is interesting that the question I posed further up the thread didn't receive an answer
Is Trump wrong to want to reduce the US trade deficit with the US trading partners?
No leader is wrong in trying to improve the economic prosperity of their nation..
But it has had the similarity akin to a bloke who owns a house that needs a complete new roof and decides to get rid of the old by torching it..
That is the way Trump is and it wont change, but the objective he has is to reduce the US deficit is good."
Not if the means to do so destabilise the bond markets as they did and as it remains to be seen if there's further uncertainty and deterioration..
There was no plan, now where have we heard that before..
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Mr Chow (Xi Jinping) is laughing he's in control, he's calling the rest of the western world his bitches.
China will just pass on tariffs to the rest of the world, costing us more for electricals, medicals and financials.
Try an buy in house for now until they wind blows out of their sails.
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By *abioMan 6 days ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"It is interesting that the question I posed further up the thread didn't receive an answer
Is Trump wrong to want to reduce the US trade deficit with the US trading partners? "
How much are you prepared to give up in the cause of the trade deficit?
Give up tea/coffee? Bananas? Pineapples?
Not at all… but in the goal of bringing everything back… do you want a 1000 dollar iPhone or a 3500 iPhone
Next December, when you buy all those Xmas presents… you going to check all the “made in” labels?
Do you want 100 dollar Nike trainers or 400 dollar Nike trainers
Those Levi 501’s that are made in lesoto?
Those diamonds that come from lesoto! (The other major export) |
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"It is interesting that the question I posed further up the thread didn't receive an answer
Is Trump wrong to want to reduce the US trade deficit with the US trading partners?
The answer is "it depends".
Some trade deficits are unavoidable because some goods can't be produced in the US.
Some trade deficits are desirable because it would cost the US more to produce some goods inside the US than it would to import them. I mean the overall costs including jobs.
Some trade deficits are just sensible. Division of labour is an established concept in efficient planning.
But yes some trade deficits are definitely undesirable. Whether taxing imports is the answer isn't clear cut though. Well targeted tariffs can work but blanket tariffs are a blunt weapon.
There are many other strategies for reducing trade deficits but these aren't the quick fixes that Trump and his supporters want.
"
Trade deficits with some individual trading partners are to be expected. It’s identical to a company wanting to buy goods from a supplier - they will pay more to the supplier than the supplier pays them and so they have a “trade deficit”. However you cannot do that with everyone you trade with - some people need to pay you more than you pay them else you will go bust. In the business world we would call the people who pay you more than you pay them customers and you would hope to have a surplus at the end of it ie your profit.
If you don’t have a surplus overall then you have a problem. Some companies can run a deficit (ie a profit loss) for a long time because they can get funding from the banks. Or in the case of a country from the bond markets. But at some point people will stop lending you money.
Individual trade deficits with a partner are good for a country. Long term overall trade deficits don’t usually end well.
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"One of the most curious features about this debate is the total lack of criticism or critical analysis of globalisation from the political left.
Maybe because globalisation isn't anything to do with being politically left or right wing
Globalisation has clearly been massively damaging to those who the political left have traditionally claimed to represent, yet they have been among its loudest cheerleaders. "
The political left are thatcher cheerleaders? |
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"Also…. Any you could think more sinister… if you are putting out a tweet this morning saying “now is a good time to buy shares” and then 4 hrs later you get the 90 day pause announcement… I hate to suggest market manipulation and insider trading….. but…. Smells!
Exactly what I thought.
The rich get richer.
Is the act of gambling on the stock market, only for the rich?"
Only the rich benefit, so yes in a way |
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By *abioMan 6 days ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
The other thing about the trump tariffs is that the are in place to counter non-tariff issues
For example… the US hate the fact that Australia, the EU, and the UK won’t allow in hgh treated beef, and chlorinated chicken and want it removed
I didn’t know until a us trade rep giving evidence to house and senate committees also stated that they have issues with Australia not allowing in apples and pears…
With South Korea for example, they have an issue with most Americans cars, largely because they fail South Korea’s vehicle emissions standards and minimum mpg regulations
So the Americans are using the 10% global tariff to air grievances and to open markets
So think of the non tariff issues the US has with the UK bearing in mind the US already has a trade surplus…. the beef/chicken access thing…… the wanting access to NHS contracts, ect
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"The other thing about the trump tariffs is that the are in place to counter non-tariff issues
For example… the US hate the fact that Australia, the EU, and the UK won’t allow in hgh treated beef, and chlorinated chicken and want it removed
I didn’t know until a us trade rep giving evidence to house and senate committees also stated that they have issues with Australia not allowing in apples and pears…
With South Korea for example, they have an issue with most Americans cars, largely because they fail South Korea’s vehicle emissions standards and minimum mpg regulations
So the Americans are using the 10% global tariff to air grievances and to open markets
So think of the non tariff issues the US has with the UK bearing in mind the US already has a trade surplus…. the beef/chicken access thing…… the wanting access to NHS contracts, ect
"
This thing about “chlorinated chicken” is just cranky. I’ve eaten chicken in the US lots of times and haven’t died. I’ve not seen any statistics that suggest US citizens are dying in large numbers from eating “chlorinated chicken”.
No doubt if the UK/US ever get close to a trade deal we can expect an outbreak of headlines every day for months about “chlorinated chicken” and “RNHS” with mass protests about chicken breaking out in every city across the country.
I recall having a conversation with a waitress in Austria once who had lived in the UK and said she wouldn’t drink the tap water here because it “tasted of swimming pool”.
Trump hasn’t invented tariffs. The EU is nothing more than a tawdry tariff zone that was set up to protect its inefficient industries from more efficient foreign competitors. It then lost the plot and decided it needed a flag and an anthem.
It’s lau_hable how the EU gets on its high horse about “free trade” when it’s on the receiving end of its own behaviour. |
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"The other thing about the trump tariffs is that the are in place to counter non-tariff issues
For example… the US hate the fact that Australia, the EU, and the UK won’t allow in hgh treated beef, and chlorinated chicken and want it removed
I didn’t know until a us trade rep giving evidence to house and senate committees also stated that they have issues with Australia not allowing in apples and pears…
With South Korea for example, they have an issue with most Americans cars, largely because they fail South Korea’s vehicle emissions standards and minimum mpg regulations
So the Americans are using the 10% global tariff to air grievances and to open markets
So think of the non tariff issues the US has with the UK bearing in mind the US already has a trade surplus…. the beef/chicken access thing…… the wanting access to NHS contracts, ect
This thing about “chlorinated chicken” is just cranky. I’ve eaten chicken in the US lots of times and haven’t died. I’ve not seen any statistics that suggest US citizens are dying in large numbers from eating “chlorinated chicken”.
No doubt if the UK/US ever get close to a trade deal we can expect an outbreak of headlines every day for months about “chlorinated chicken” and “RNHS” with mass protests about chicken breaking out in every city across the country.
I recall having a conversation with a waitress in Austria once who had lived in the UK and said she wouldn’t drink the tap water here because it “tasted of swimming pool”.
"
-----------------------
There's a simple solution, why doesn't the US offer non chlorinated chicken ie a product their potential customers might want to buy? |
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"The other thing about the trump tariffs is that the are in place to counter non-tariff issues
For example… the US hate the fact that Australia, the EU, and the UK won’t allow in hgh treated beef, and chlorinated chicken and want it removed
I didn’t know until a us trade rep giving evidence to house and senate committees also stated that they have issues with Australia not allowing in apples and pears…
With South Korea for example, they have an issue with most Americans cars, largely because they fail South Korea’s vehicle emissions standards and minimum mpg regulations
So the Americans are using the 10% global tariff to air grievances and to open markets
So think of the non tariff issues the US has with the UK bearing in mind the US already has a trade surplus…. the beef/chicken access thing…… the wanting access to NHS contracts, ect
This thing about “chlorinated chicken” is just cranky. I’ve eaten chicken in the US lots of times and haven’t died. I’ve not seen any statistics that suggest US citizens are dying in large numbers from eating “chlorinated chicken”.
No doubt if the UK/US ever get close to a trade deal we can expect an outbreak of headlines every day for months about “chlorinated chicken” and “RNHS” with mass protests about chicken breaking out in every city across the country.
I recall having a conversation with a waitress in Austria once who had lived in the UK and said she wouldn’t drink the tap water here because it “tasted of swimming pool”.
-----------------------
There's a simple solution, why doesn't the US offer non chlorinated chicken ie a product their potential customers might want to buy?"
I’d be quite happy to buy it. As I say I’ve eaten it lots of times and I’m still alive.
When I go the US I usually go with a shopping list from friends and family who want some medication that they can’t buy in the UK but can buy in the US.
I don’t believe for a second that food and drug regulators are doing less of a job in the US than they are in the UK. They presumably just take a different view of some things based on the evidence they review.
There is always the tendency for the smaller country to want to “stick it to the US” and that’s just exacerbated at the moment by the crazed Leftists who want to “stick it to Trump”.
Whether their position on “chlorinated chicken” is rational or not doesn’t come into it. |
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"No doubt if the UK/US ever get close to a trade deal we can expect an outbreak of headlines every day for months about “chlorinated chicken” and “RNHS” with mass protests about chicken breaking out in every city across the country. "
This is actually how most non trade tariff barriers work. You let them import their product and then you find a billion and one ways to stop them from selling it properly.
I don’t know what chlorinated chicken actually is but I don’t like the sound of it and if I had a choice I probably wouldn’t buy it. The UK govt could do a trade deal to allow the us chicken in and then require all chicken sellers to clearly mark whether it is chlorinated or not. I doubt the chlorinated chicken would sell unless it was dirt cheap. |
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"No doubt if the UK/US ever get close to a trade deal we can expect an outbreak of headlines every day for months about “chlorinated chicken” and “RNHS” with mass protests about chicken breaking out in every city across the country.
This is actually how most non trade tariff barriers work. You let them import their product and then you find a billion and one ways to stop them from selling it properly.
I don’t know what chlorinated chicken actually is but I don’t like the sound of it and if I had a choice I probably wouldn’t buy it. The UK govt could do a trade deal to allow the us chicken in and then require all chicken sellers to clearly mark whether it is chlorinated or not. I doubt the chlorinated chicken would sell unless it was dirt cheap."
US trade deals always insist on access for their food & with Trump , they could strongly insist on no labelling on their agri products; in which case, how would a costumer know what is the origin of their meat?
And another issue is what about prepared meals, such as ready meals, meals in canteens, hospitals; as cost is a factor, then majority of those will probably end up with chlorinated chicken.
And then what if a UK ready meal supplier exports that ready meal to the EU? EU customer (whether you agree or disagree with it) do not want US standard food in their market; therefore, that UK ready meal will face additional customs, or even a ban from the EU market.
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A lot of Trump rhetoric about about non-tatiff barriers is essentially in some markets, there is no demand for US products; cars in particular; they're too big, too inefficient for Japanese, Europeans, & general quality compared to European & Japanese automakers is poorer |
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"The other thing about the trump tariffs is that the are in place to counter non-tariff issues
For example… the US hate the fact that Australia, the EU, and the UK won’t allow in hgh treated beef, and chlorinated chicken and want it removed
I didn’t know until a us trade rep giving evidence to house and senate committees also stated that they have issues with Australia not allowing in apples and pears…
With South Korea for example, they have an issue with most Americans cars, largely because they fail South Korea’s vehicle emissions standards and minimum mpg regulations
So the Americans are using the 10% global tariff to air grievances and to open markets
So think of the non tariff issues the US has with the UK bearing in mind the US already has a trade surplus…. the beef/chicken access thing…… the wanting access to NHS contracts, ect
This thing about “chlorinated chicken” is just cranky. I’ve eaten chicken in the US lots of times and haven’t died. I’ve not seen any statistics that suggest US citizens are dying in large numbers from eating “chlorinated chicken”.
No doubt if the UK/US ever get close to a trade deal we can expect an outbreak of headlines every day for months about “chlorinated chicken” and “RNHS” with mass protests about chicken breaking out in every city across the country.
I recall having a conversation with a waitress in Austria once who had lived in the UK and said she wouldn’t drink the tap water here because it “tasted of swimming pool”.
Trump hasn’t invented tariffs. The EU is nothing more than a tawdry tariff zone that was set up to protect its inefficient industries from more efficient foreign competitors. It then lost the plot and decided it needed a flag and an anthem.
It’s lau_hable how the EU gets on its high horse about “free trade” when it’s on the receiving end of its own behaviour."
Don't forget US companies wanting to buy the NHS. They've been trying to do that for decades according to the scare stories ! |
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Chlorine-washed chicken is a complicated subject. The chlorine-wash itself isn't considered dangerous. The concern is that US food hygiene standards are much lower than European standards and that they effectively try to "clean-up the mess" right at the end of the process by using chemical treatment.
Also the Trump administration is busy firing large numbers of people who work in the Food and Drugs Administraction, the US Department of Agriculture and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention so US standards are expected to fall even further. |
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"Chlorine-washed chicken is a complicated subject. The chlorine-wash itself isn't considered dangerous. The concern is that US food hygiene standards are much lower than European standards and that they effectively try to "clean-up the mess" right at the end of the process by using chemical treatment.
Also the Trump administration is busy firing large numbers of people who work in the Food and Drugs Administraction, the US Department of Agriculture and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention so US standards are expected to fall even further."
The cattle welfare bothers me more than the chlorine. |
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By *d4ugirlsMan 5 days ago
Green Cove Springs |
"And if you think this is a victory lap for Trump … you would see him doing the press conference to announce it, rather than sending out commerce secretary Scott bessent "
Lol, yep obviously being underestimated again and story line trying to be manipulated.
Too bad this is such a distraction for the UK, instead of concerning the fall of the UK and doing something about it. |
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"I don’t know what chlorinated chicken actually is but I don’t like the sound of it ..."
It's just chicken that's been washed in water with a splash of chlorine to kill off any germs that may be on the carcass, especially salmonella.
Here in the UK we're all urged to wash chicken before cutting it, but no one bothers. US 'chlorinated chicken' is just normal chicken that's been professionally pre-washed for you before packaging. |
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"Here in the UK we're all urged to wash chicken before cutting it, but no one bothers."
dude, you may want to check that. in the uk we're catagorically told not to wash meat prior to preperation for cooking .... nvq level 1 food hygiene |
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"I don’t know what chlorinated chicken actually is but I don’t like the sound of it ...
It's just chicken that's been washed in water with a splash of chlorine to kill off any germs that may be on the carcass, especially salmonella.
Here in the UK we're all urged to wash chicken before cutting it, but no one bothers. US 'chlorinated chicken' is just normal chicken that's been professionally pre-washed for you before packaging."
Europe has higher salmonella rates than the US and has had multiple food hygiene scandals (eg horsemeat).The idea a country as litigious as the US doesn't have very high food safety standards is bonkers. |
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"Here in the UK we're all urged to wash chicken before cutting it, but no one bothers."
"dude, you may want to check that. in the uk we're catagorically told not to wash meat prior to preperation for cooking .... nvq level 1 food hygiene"
You're right, I'm out of date. We used to be urged to wash chicken (decades ago), but the more recent advice is not to do so as the water splashes will spread bacteria around the kitchen. Instead we must thoroughly clean everything that raw chicken touches.
That wouldn't be a problem with chlorinated chicken, but it's not allowed here. |
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"Here in the UK we're all urged to wash chicken before cutting it, but no one bothers.
dude, you may want to check that. in the uk we're catagorically told not to wash meat prior to preperation for cooking .... nvq level 1 food hygiene
You're right, I'm out of date. We used to be urged to wash chicken (decades ago), but the more recent advice is not to do so as the water splashes will spread bacteria around the kitchen. Instead we must thoroughly clean everything that raw chicken touches.
That wouldn't be a problem with chlorinated chicken, but it's not allowed here."
again ... you're wrong .... change your habbits before you kill a loved one with your lack of knowledge  |
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European Union (EU) Food Regulations
Stringent Oversight: The EU is known for its stringent food safety standards and regulatory framework. The European Food Safety Authority (EFSA) plays a central role in evaluating and monitoring food safety risks.
Precautionary Principle: The EU adopts a precautionary approach, which means that if a food product's safety is uncertain, it can be banned or restricted until proven safe.
Labeling Requirements: EU regulations demand comprehensive labeling, including clear ingredient lists, allergen information, and nutritional facts. Country of origin labeling is also mandatory.
Pesticide Restrictions: The EU has strict limits on pesticide residues in food products, often more rigorous than those in the US.
United States (US) Food Regulations
FDA and USDA Oversight: Food regulation in the US is primarily overseen by two agencies: the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) and the United States Department of Agriculture (USDA).
Risk-Based Approach: The US typically takes a risk-based approach, allowing products on the market unless there is evidence of harm.
Nutritional Labeling: US regulations require nutritional labeling on packaged foods, but country of origin labeling is generally not mandatory.
GRAS System: The Generally Recognized as Safe (GRAS) system allows food manufacturers to determine the safety of certain food additives without preapproval from the FDA.
Key Differences in Food Standards
1. Food Additives and Colorings
The EU maintains a cautious approach regarding food additives, limiting their use. Many artificial colorings and preservatives allowed in the US are banned or restricted in the EU.
Conversely, the US has a more permissive stance on food additives and colorings, allowing a wider range of substances in food products.
2. GMOs (Genetically Modified Organisms)
The EU has strict regulations on GMOs, requiring labeling and traceability. Many GMO crops approved in the US are not approved for cultivation in the EU.
In the US, instead, GMO labeling is not mandatory, and GMO crops are widely grown and consumed.
3. Antibiotics in Animal Agriculture
While the use of antibiotics in animal agriculture is restricted in the EU, aiming to reduce antibiotic resistance, its use in US is more prevalent, raising concerns about antimicrobial resistance.
4. Food Safety and Inspection Practices
EU regulations emphasize the implementation of Hazard Analysis and Critical Control Points (HACCP) principles to ensure food safety. The US employs HACCP as well but also relies on the Food Safety Modernization Act (FSMA), which places greater emphasis on preventive controls.
5. Inspection Frequency
Food businesses in the EU are subject to regular inspections, and the frequency depends on factors such as the type of product and the history of compliance.
US inspections, instead, are conducted by both federal and state agencies, with varying inspection frequencies based on risk.
https://rdrglobalpartners.com/blog/eu-vs-us-food-regulations-understanding-the-key-differences
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"Here in the UK we're all urged to wash chicken before cutting it, but no one bothers."
"dude, you may want to check that. in the uk we're catagorically told not to wash meat prior to preperation for cooking .... nvq level 1 food hygiene"
"You're right, I'm out of date. We used to be urged to wash chicken (decades ago), but the more recent advice is not to do so as the water splashes will spread bacteria around the kitchen. Instead we must thoroughly clean everything that raw chicken touches.
That wouldn't be a problem with chlorinated chicken, but it's not allowed here."
"again ... you're wrong .... change your habbits before you kill a loved one with your lack of knowledge"
I've already agreed that I was wrong about us being urged to wash chicken nowadays. What else do you think I've got wrong?
As I said above, no one does wash chicken here in the UK. I never have, so there's no danger of my habits killing anyone. |
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By *abioMan 5 days ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"I don’t know what chlorinated chicken actually is but I don’t like the sound of it ...
It's just chicken that's been washed in water with a splash of chlorine to kill off any germs that may be on the carcass, especially salmonella.
Here in the UK we're all urged to wash chicken before cutting it, but no one bothers. US 'chlorinated chicken' is just normal chicken that's been professionally pre-washed for you before packaging.
Europe has higher salmonella rates than the US and has had multiple food hygiene scandals (eg horsemeat).The idea a country as litigious as the US doesn't have very high food safety standards is bonkers."
I could name you about half a dozen salmonella type incidents in the us in the last 12-18 months, and some people have actually died… and I wish I was exaggerating! |
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By *abioMan 4 days ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
And here start coming the exemptions…….
Computers, smartphones, The exemptions also include other electronic devices and components, including semiconductors, solar cells and memory cards.
Basically a lot of the stuff they desperately need |
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"And here start coming the exemptions…….
Computers, smartphones, The exemptions also include other electronic devices and components, including semiconductors, solar cells and memory cards.
Basically a lot of the stuff they desperately need "
But not sex toys????? |
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By *d4ugirlsMan 3 days ago
Green Cove Springs |
"No doubt if the UK/US ever get close to a trade deal we can expect an outbreak of headlines every day for months about “chlorinated chicken” and “RNHS” with mass protests about chicken breaking out in every city across the country.
This is actually how most non trade tariff barriers work. You let them import their product and then you find a billion and one ways to stop them from selling it properly.
I don’t know what chlorinated chicken actually is but I don’t like the sound of it and if I had a choice I probably wouldn’t buy it. The UK govt could do a trade deal to allow the us chicken in and then require all chicken sellers to clearly mark whether it is chlorinated or not. I doubt the chlorinated chicken would sell unless it was dirt cheap."
Finding this amusing everyone up in arms about a piece of chicken getting sloshed about in water and chlorine.
I am sure all of you can remember the days of going to the swimming baths as kids and I am sure some of you are still going, looking for a meet judging by the titles in the stories section. As soon as you stepped through the doors your eyes were burning. The gallons we must have had gone up our noses, accidently swallowed, went up our backside from doing cannonball splashes.
The hours we soaked ourselves in a solution of chlorine and water at the baths has not killed us yet! I am sure the chicken won't either.
Sorry to go back to one of the older topics, I see everyone is on to a new one now! |
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"No doubt if the UK/US ever get close to a trade deal we can expect an outbreak of headlines every day for months about “chlorinated chicken” and “RNHS” with mass protests about chicken breaking out in every city across the country.
This is actually how most non trade tariff barriers work. You let them import their product and then you find a billion and one ways to stop them from selling it properly.
I don’t know what chlorinated chicken actually is but I don’t like the sound of it and if I had a choice I probably wouldn’t buy it. The UK govt could do a trade deal to allow the us chicken in and then require all chicken sellers to clearly mark whether it is chlorinated or not. I doubt the chlorinated chicken would sell unless it was dirt cheap.
Finding this amusing everyone up in arms about a piece of chicken getting sloshed about in water and chlorine.
I am sure all of you can remember the days of going to the swimming baths as kids and I am sure some of you are still going, looking for a meet judging by the titles in the stories section. As soon as you stepped through the doors your eyes were burning. The gallons we must have had gone up our noses, accidently swallowed, went up our backside from doing cannonball splashes.
The hours we soaked ourselves in a solution of chlorine and water at the baths has not killed us yet! I am sure the chicken won't either.
Sorry to go back to one of the older topics, I see everyone is on to a new one now!"
How do we know that our exposure to chlorine in swimming pools hasn't caused long-term health issues? Just being here isn't very scientific is it?
Many of us used talcum powder which is now linked to possible causes of lung and other cancers. Products withdrawn and lots of court cases brewing.
I read that the need in the US for watching chickens in chlorine is due to their lower standards of animal welfare. That would be reason enough to avoid such products, at least for me. |
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"
How do we know that our exposure to chlorine in swimming pools hasn't caused long-term health issues? Just being here isn't very scientific is it?
Many of us used talcum powder which is now linked to possible causes of lung and other cancers. Products withdrawn and lots of court cases brewing.
I read that the need in the US for watching chickens in chlorine is due to their lower standards of animal welfare. That would be reason enough to avoid such products, at least for me."
Good points and such is the nature of later science, isn't it ? We discover things once felt safe are far from safe with greater knowledge and tools to test with. And that is assuming evidence isn't buried or obfuscated along the way by parties with vested interests. |
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"
How do we know that our exposure to chlorine in swimming pools hasn't caused long-term health issues? Just being here isn't very scientific is it?
Many of us used talcum powder which is now linked to possible causes of lung and other cancers. Products withdrawn and lots of court cases brewing.
I read that the need in the US for watching chickens in chlorine is due to their lower standards of animal welfare. That would be reason enough to avoid such products, at least for me.
Good points and such is the nature of later science, isn't it ? We discover things once felt safe are far from safe with greater knowledge and tools to test with. And that is assuming evidence isn't buried or obfuscated along the way by parties with vested interests."
Yes in the case of asbestos the first documented case of the health hazard was in 1898, and it only took us 101 years to completely ban it in the UK in 1999.
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Yes in the case of asbestos the first documented case of the health hazard was in 1898, and it only took us 101 years to completely ban it in the UK in 1999.
"
Does anyone else of a similar age have vague recollections of using asbestos mats in science lessons in the 80s?
 |
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"Yes in the case of asbestos the first documented case of the health hazard was in 1898, and it only took us 101 years to completely ban it in the UK in 1999."
"Does anyone else of a similar age have vague recollections of using asbestos mats in science lessons in the 80s?"
Yup. They're still used in some places.
Asbestos is completely safe when it's encapsulated into a mat. It's only dangerous when it gets ground up and the fibres float around in the air. |
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