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UK/US free speech
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In the Trump/Zelensky meeting JD Vance again mentioned his concerns about the growing crackdowns on free speech in Europe, and particularly in the UK.
He said that, given the global nature of online dialogue, any restrictions on online free speech in the UK and EU would inevitably affect US companies and US citizens, and that isn’t something that the US will put up with.
Where is this headed? It seems to be another major difference in ideology and principle between the US and Europe. |
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By *abioMan 2 days ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"In the Trump/Zelensky meeting JD Vance again mentioned his concerns about the growing crackdowns on free speech in Europe, and particularly in the UK.
He said that, given the global nature of online dialogue, any restrictions on online free speech in the UK and EU would inevitably affect US companies and US citizens, and that isn’t something that the US will put up with.
Where is this headed? It seems to be another major difference in ideology and principle between the US and Europe."
It made me laugh out loud because I was waiting on starmer to just say “well your boss is always accusing others of getting involved in US elections, and he doesn’t like it”
He is going to call it free speech, to protect the likes of Elon Musk, I would say that people are deliberately not telling the truth or giving people misinformation, that isn’t really freedom of speech, that’s incitement!
Case in point, Southport last summer!
I say to my American friends that they freedom of speech isn’t freedom from consequences |
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I don’t think it is a difference in ideology. A difference in ideology is the Chinese view of free speech compared to ours. What it is is the ability of the US to project power within our domain.
Our “soft” power, historically, has been cultural. Their “soft” power now comes through technology. Their soft power has an edge that ours doesn’t. Ours is longer term, theirs is shorter and more direct. We have always flexed ours. They are flexing theirs. Theirs is more visible. |
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free speech? you're 'avin a giraffe! .... so far under the fat old confused bloke 10,000 books have been banned ... some notable titles are:
where the wild things are
his dark materials
the harry potter series
the great gatsby
catch-22
the adventures of huckleberry finn
the diary of a young girl by anne frank
farenheit 451 ( which itself is about a government that burns all books) |
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"free speech? you're 'avin a giraffe! .... so far under the fat old confused bloke 10,000 books have been banned ... some notable titles are:
where the wild things are
his dark materials
the harry potter series
the great gatsby
catch-22
the adventures of huckleberry finn
the diary of a young girl by anne frank
farenheit 451 ( which itself is about a government that burns all books)"
Strange. From a five second search on Amazon.com I can see that Harry Potter is still readily available for US citizens to buy.
One does have to wonder where some people get their information from. |
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"free speech? you're 'avin a giraffe! .... so far under the fat old confused bloke 10,000 books have been banned ... some notable titles are:
where the wild things are
his dark materials
the harry potter series
the great gatsby
catch-22
the adventures of huckleberry finn
the diary of a young girl by anne frank
farenheit 451 ( which itself is about a government that burns all books)
Strange. From a five second search on Amazon.com I can see that Harry Potter is still readily available for US citizens to buy.
One does have to wonder where some people get their information from. "
amazon
i rest my case m'lud  |
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"In the Trump/Zelensky meeting JD Vance again mentioned his concerns about the growing crackdowns on free speech in Europe, and particularly in the UK.
He said that, given the global nature of online dialogue, any restrictions on online free speech in the UK and EU would inevitably affect US companies and US citizens, and that isn’t something that the US will put up with.
Where is this headed? It seems to be another major difference in ideology and principle between the US and Europe.
It made me laugh out loud because I was waiting on starmer to just say “well your boss is always accusing others of getting involved in US elections, and he doesn’t like it”
He is going to call it free speech, to protect the likes of Elon Musk, I would say that people are deliberately not telling the truth or giving people misinformation, that isn’t really freedom of speech, that’s incitement!
Case in point, Southport last summer!
I say to my American friends that they freedom of speech isn’t freedom from consequences "
It was interesting that when Vance was losing his rag with Zelensky he did raise the point that Zelensky has been out campaigning for Biden.
More bad judgment from on Zelensky's part that has come back to bite him on the backside. |
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We still have free speech here unfortunately the easily offended are ready to pounce on every comment claiming to triggered and the cancel culture brigade seems to have more power to affect people's lives than they should.
The problem isn't lack of free speech it's lack of balance. |
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"free speech? you're 'avin a giraffe! .... so far under the fat old confused bloke 10,000 books have been banned ... some notable titles are:
where the wild things are
his dark materials
the harry potter series
the great gatsby
catch-22
the adventures of huckleberry finn
the diary of a young girl by anne frank
farenheit 451 ( which itself is about a government that burns all books)"
Wtf are you on about 🤣🤣🤣 |
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"free speech? you're 'avin a giraffe! .... so far under the fat old confused bloke 10,000 books have been banned ... some notable titles are:
where the wild things are
his dark materials
the harry potter series
the great gatsby
catch-22
the adventures of huckleberry finn
the diary of a young girl by anne frank
farenheit 451 ( which itself is about a government that burns all books)
Wtf are you on about 🤣🤣🤣"
department of educations banned books list updated 17th feb 25 .... what the fuck are you on about ?
🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡
|
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"free speech? you're 'avin a giraffe! .... so far under the fat old confused bloke 10,000 books have been banned ... some notable titles are:
where the wild things are
his dark materials
the harry potter series
the great gatsby
catch-22
the adventures of huckleberry finn
the diary of a young girl by anne frank
farenheit 451 ( which itself is about a government that burns all books)
Wtf are you on about 🤣🤣🤣
department of educations banned books list updated 17th feb 25 .... what the fuck are you on about ?
🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡
"
Oh dear 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️ |
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"free speech? you're 'avin a giraffe! .... so far under the fat old confused bloke 10,000 books have been banned ... some notable titles are:
where the wild things are
his dark materials
the harry potter series
the great gatsby
catch-22
the adventures of huckleberry finn
the diary of a young girl by anne frank
farenheit 451 ( which itself is about a government that burns all books)
Wtf are you on about 🤣🤣🤣
department of educations banned books list updated 17th feb 25 .... what the fuck are you on about ?
🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡
Oh dear 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️"
i see you've backed down now i've mentioned the source being the us federal gvt... well done  |
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By *abioMan 2 days ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"free speech? you're 'avin a giraffe! .... so far under the fat old confused bloke 10,000 books have been banned ... some notable titles are:
where the wild things are
his dark materials
the harry potter series
the great gatsby
catch-22
the adventures of huckleberry finn
the diary of a young girl by anne frank
farenheit 451 ( which itself is about a government that burns all books)
Strange. From a five second search on Amazon.com I can see that Harry Potter is still readily available for US citizens to buy.
One does have to wonder where some people get their information from. "
… from us schools…. |
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"free speech? you're 'avin a giraffe! .... so far under the fat old confused bloke 10,000 books have been banned ... some notable titles are:
where the wild things are
his dark materials
the harry potter series
the great gatsby
catch-22
the adventures of huckleberry finn
the diary of a young girl by anne frank
farenheit 451 ( which itself is about a government that burns all books)
Wtf are you on about 🤣🤣🤣
department of educations banned books list updated 17th feb 25 .... what the fuck are you on about ?
🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡
Oh dear 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️"
You did well to check that list in 3 minutes |
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By *otMe66Man 2 days ago
Terra Firma |
"free speech? you're 'avin a giraffe! .... so far under the fat old confused bloke 10,000 books have been banned ... some notable titles are:
where the wild things are
his dark materials
the harry potter series
the great gatsby
catch-22
the adventures of huckleberry finn
the diary of a young girl by anne frank
farenheit 451 ( which itself is about a government that burns all books)"
I would fact check such statements before posting.... |
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By *abioMan 2 days ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"In the Trump/Zelensky meeting JD Vance again mentioned his concerns about the growing crackdowns on free speech in Europe, and particularly in the UK.
He said that, given the global nature of online dialogue, any restrictions on online free speech in the UK and EU would inevitably affect US companies and US citizens, and that isn’t something that the US will put up with.
Where is this headed? It seems to be another major difference in ideology and principle between the US and Europe.
It made me laugh out loud because I was waiting on starmer to just say “well your boss is always accusing others of getting involved in US elections, and he doesn’t like it”
He is going to call it free speech, to protect the likes of Elon Musk, I would say that people are deliberately not telling the truth or giving people misinformation, that isn’t really freedom of speech, that’s incitement!
Case in point, Southport last summer!
I say to my American friends that they freedom of speech isn’t freedom from consequences
It was interesting that when Vance was losing his rag with Zelensky he did raise the point that Zelensky has been out campaigning for Biden.
More bad judgment from on Zelensky's part that has come back to bite him on the backside."
The visit JD Vance was talking about on the visit to Pennsylvania was to an armament factory! He was thanking them for producing the stuff!! Jeez! |
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Trump/Vance/Musk idea of free speech includes banning books, banning the side of the press that openly disagrees with them. But other than that you can say/publish/post anything.
Uk/EU idea of free speech is that you can say/publish/post anything as long as it's not potentially harmful or incites violence.
Neither is true free speech but the latter is a more responsible version. |
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By *abioMan 2 days ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"free speech? you're 'avin a giraffe! .... so far under the fat old confused bloke 10,000 books have been banned ... some notable titles are:
where the wild things are
his dark materials
the harry potter series
the great gatsby
catch-22
the adventures of huckleberry finn
the diary of a young girl by anne frank
farenheit 451 ( which itself is about a government that burns all books)
I would fact check such statements before posting.... "
He did I think he was waiting to see who stepped on the landmine before fully revealing the source.. lol |
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By *abioMan 2 days ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"Trump/Vance/Musk idea of free speech includes banning books, banning the side of the press that openly disagrees with them. But other than that you can say/publish/post anything.
Uk/EU idea of free speech is that you can say/publish/post anything as long as it's not potentially harmful or incites violence.
Neither is true free speech but the latter is a more responsible version. "
Notable that Russia state media (Tass) were in the room… but the AP and Reuters were both barred |
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By *otMe66Man 2 days ago
Terra Firma |
"free speech? you're 'avin a giraffe! .... so far under the fat old confused bloke 10,000 books have been banned ... some notable titles are:
where the wild things are
his dark materials
the harry potter series
the great gatsby
catch-22
the adventures of huckleberry finn
the diary of a young girl by anne frank
farenheit 451 ( which itself is about a government that burns all books)
I would fact check such statements before posting....
He did I think he was waiting to see who stepped on the landmine before fully revealing the source.. lol"
I can't see a decision to ban those books by the Trump administration, can you point in the right direction? |
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"free speech? you're 'avin a giraffe! .... so far under the fat old confused bloke 10,000 books have been banned ... some notable titles are:
where the wild things are
his dark materials
the harry potter series
the great gatsby
catch-22
the adventures of huckleberry finn
the diary of a young girl by anne frank
farenheit 451 ( which itself is about a government that burns all books)
I would fact check such statements before posting....
He did I think he was waiting to see who stepped on the landmine before fully revealing the source.. lol"
Worth pointing out that the book bans are in schools and differs by state (it's the Trump supporting right wing Republican states banning them). |
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"free speech? you're 'avin a giraffe! .... so far under the fat old confused bloke 10,000 books have been banned ... some notable titles are:
where the wild things are
his dark materials
the harry potter series
the great gatsby
catch-22
the adventures of huckleberry finn
the diary of a young girl by anne frank
farenheit 451 ( which itself is about a government that burns all books)
I would fact check such statements before posting....
He did I think he was waiting to see who stepped on the landmine before fully revealing the source.. lol
I can't see a decision to ban those books by the Trump administration, can you point in the right direction? "
Those books and others were removed from some school and college lists under the Biden Administration! 🤦♂️ |
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"Trump/Vance/Musk idea of free speech includes banning books, banning the side of the press that openly disagrees with them. But other than that you can say/publish/post anything.
Uk/EU idea of free speech is that you can say/publish/post anything as long as it's not potentially harmful or incites violence.
Neither is true free speech but the latter is a more responsible version.
Notable that Russia state media (Tass) were in the room… but the AP and Reuters were both barred "
Trumps real views on free speech and press freedom are very much aligned to the Russian view (where you get imprisoned or even killed for publicly opposing Putin) |
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By *otMe66Man 2 days ago
Terra Firma |
"Trump/Vance/Musk idea of free speech includes banning books, banning the side of the press that openly disagrees with them. But other than that you can say/publish/post anything.
Uk/EU idea of free speech is that you can say/publish/post anything as long as it's not potentially harmful or incites violence.
Neither is true free speech but the latter is a more responsible version.
Notable that Russia state media (Tass) were in the room… but the AP and Reuters were both barred "
I wouldn't worry too much about what media sources were in or out the room, I would be more concerned how media outlets present the information to their viewers..
The whole interaction is available online, but the media have pushed a version that starts a little later, that gives a very different starting point and makes it look like Zelensky was attacked or setup. |
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"free speech? you're 'avin a giraffe! .... so far under the fat old confused bloke 10,000 books have been banned ... some notable titles are:
where the wild things are
his dark materials
the harry potter series
the great gatsby
catch-22
the adventures of huckleberry finn
the diary of a young girl by anne frank
farenheit 451 ( which itself is about a government that burns all books)
I would fact check such statements before posting....
He did I think he was waiting to see who stepped on the landmine before fully revealing the source.. lol
I can't see a decision to ban those books by the Trump administration, can you point in the right direction?
Those books and others were removed from some school and college lists under the Biden Administration! 🤦♂️"
So now you're eating humble pie 🥧 |
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When any administration bans media that don't follow their agenda and are holding them to the same account they would expect to apply to others that's a slippery slope..
Trying to fob it off as nothing is naive and history cleary tells us it's not healthy for democracy..
Every regime that has done it is not there for all they pretend to serve.. |
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By *abioMan 2 days ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"free speech? you're 'avin a giraffe! .... so far under the fat old confused bloke 10,000 books have been banned ... some notable titles are:
where the wild things are
his dark materials
the harry potter series
the great gatsby
catch-22
the adventures of huckleberry finn
the diary of a young girl by anne frank
farenheit 451 ( which itself is about a government that burns all books)
I would fact check such statements before posting....
He did I think he was waiting to see who stepped on the landmine before fully revealing the source.. lol
I can't see a decision to ban those books by the Trump administration, can you point in the right direction? "
Basically the previous Trump administration gave transferred the authority to ban books in schools from the department of education to local school boards governed by states … it was then “abused” by certain groups to get books related to LGBTQ and African American history banned
Obviously other books have been caught up in this “handmaids tale “ type purge….
|
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By *otMe66Man 2 days ago
Terra Firma |
"free speech? you're 'avin a giraffe! .... so far under the fat old confused bloke 10,000 books have been banned ... some notable titles are:
where the wild things are
his dark materials
the harry potter series
the great gatsby
catch-22
the adventures of huckleberry finn
the diary of a young girl by anne frank
farenheit 451 ( which itself is about a government that burns all books)
I would fact check such statements before posting....
He did I think he was waiting to see who stepped on the landmine before fully revealing the source.. lol
I can't see a decision to ban those books by the Trump administration, can you point in the right direction?
Basically the previous Trump administration gave transferred the authority to ban books in schools from the department of education to local school boards governed by states … it was then “abused” by certain groups to get books related to LGBTQ and African American history banned
Obviously other books have been caught up in this “handmaids tale “ type purge….
"
Thanks for the clarity
So, Trump and his administration hasn’t banned these books, they pushed the decision making to state and local level. Bans have been made by school governing boards or state policies, not federal policy or decisions.
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Both Conservatives and Labour have been responsible for crackdown on free speech over the decades. In general, politicians in power love the idea of controlling speech because it's the easiest way to maintain status quo.
This is I admire the first amendment. It's sad that UK and many European countries do not have such constitutional protection for free speech and because of that we have lost free speech to an extent.
Relatively speaking, UK has less free speech rights compared to US |
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By *otMe66Man 2 days ago
Terra Firma |
"Man gives person knife knowing person intends to stab someone and does so..
Man isn't without blame..
"
I'm surprised that you would say that. States making their own decisions is surely a more democratic way, that is who the people voted for locally and not federal.
If it was the other way, he took away the local decision to make it a federal decision, I could understand. |
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"free speech? you're 'avin a giraffe! .... so far under the fat old confused bloke 10,000 books have been banned ... some notable titles are:
where the wild things are
his dark materials
the harry potter series
the great gatsby
catch-22
the adventures of huckleberry finn
the diary of a young girl by anne frank
farenheit 451 ( which itself is about a government that burns all books)
I would fact check such statements before posting....
He did I think he was waiting to see who stepped on the landmine before fully revealing the source.. lol
I can't see a decision to ban those books by the Trump administration, can you point in the right direction?
Those books and others were removed from some school and college lists under the Biden Administration! 🤦♂️"
Which party and apparatus was behind/responsible for the bans? |
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"free speech? you're 'avin a giraffe! .... so far under the fat old confused bloke 10,000 books have been banned ... some notable titles are:
where the wild things are
his dark materials
the harry potter series
the great gatsby
catch-22
the adventures of huckleberry finn
the diary of a young girl by anne frank
farenheit 451 ( which itself is about a government that burns all books)
I would fact check such statements before posting....
He did I think he was waiting to see who stepped on the landmine before fully revealing the source.. lol
I can't see a decision to ban those books by the Trump administration, can you point in the right direction?
Basically the previous Trump administration gave transferred the authority to ban books in schools from the department of education to local school boards governed by states … it was then “abused” by certain groups to get books related to LGBTQ and African American history banned
Obviously other books have been caught up in this “handmaids tale “ type purge….
Thanks for the clarity
So, Trump and his administration hasn’t banned these books, they pushed the decision making to state and local level. Bans have been made by school governing boards or state policies, not federal policy or decisions.
"
The lack of understanding of what free speech means among the modern left wingers is mind boggling to be honest |
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"Man gives person knife knowing person intends to stab someone and does so..
Man isn't without blame..
I'm surprised that you would say that. States making their own decisions is surely a more democratic way, that is who the people voted for locally and not federal.
If it was the other way, he took away the local decision to make it a federal decision, I could understand."
I'm only slightly surprised that you done see the intent and the connection of those who gave the individual states the power to act like a certain regime did in the 1930s..
|
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"free speech? you're 'avin a giraffe! .... so far under the fat old confused bloke 10,000 books have been banned ... some notable titles are:
where the wild things are
his dark materials
the harry potter series
the great gatsby
catch-22
the adventures of huckleberry finn
the diary of a young girl by anne frank
farenheit 451 ( which itself is about a government that burns all books)
I would fact check such statements before posting....
He did I think he was waiting to see who stepped on the landmine before fully revealing the source.. lol
I can't see a decision to ban those books by the Trump administration, can you point in the right direction?
Basically the previous Trump administration gave transferred the authority to ban books in schools from the department of education to local school boards governed by states … it was then “abused” by certain groups to get books related to LGBTQ and African American history banned
Obviously other books have been caught up in this “handmaids tale “ type purge….
Thanks for the clarity
So, Trump and his administration hasn’t banned these books, they pushed the decision making to state and local level. Bans have been made by school governing boards or state policies, not federal policy or decisions.
"
Imagine increasing local democracy and the rights of parents to decide what their children are taught. Pure fascism in action! |
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By *otMe66Man 2 days ago
Terra Firma |
"Both Conservatives and Labour have been responsible for crackdown on free speech over the decades. In general, politicians in power love the idea of controlling speech because it's the easiest way to maintain status quo.
This is I admire the first amendment. It's sad that UK and many European countries do not have such constitutional protection for free speech and because of that we have lost free speech to an extent.
Relatively speaking, UK has less free speech rights compared to US"
I agree, I too would like a first amendment for the UK
UK and Europe have far more restrictions and legal consequences for speech than the US.
We are seeing in real time how different the extent of free speech is, and I think it goes a long way in explaining why so many people feel outraged here in Europe in terms of lack of free speech or the shock of speech being used in the US. |
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"free speech? you're 'avin a giraffe! .... so far under the fat old confused bloke 10,000 books have been banned ... some notable titles are:
where the wild things are
his dark materials
the harry potter series
the great gatsby
catch-22
the adventures of huckleberry finn
the diary of a young girl by anne frank
farenheit 451 ( which itself is about a government that burns all books)
I would fact check such statements before posting....
He did I think he was waiting to see who stepped on the landmine before fully revealing the source.. lol
I can't see a decision to ban those books by the Trump administration, can you point in the right direction?
Basically the previous Trump administration gave transferred the authority to ban books in schools from the department of education to local school boards governed by states … it was then “abused” by certain groups to get books related to LGBTQ and African American history banned
Obviously other books have been caught up in this “handmaids tale “ type purge….
Thanks for the clarity
So, Trump and his administration hasn’t banned these books, they pushed the decision making to state and local level. Bans have been made by school governing boards or state policies, not federal policy or decisions.
Imagine increasing local democracy and the rights of parents to decide what their children are taught. Pure fascism in action! "
No one was standing in any of the libraries forcing anyone to pick up anything..
Do you seriously believe that teaching the fact that not everyone is straight or there are other sky fairies etc is fascism..
Will add that I don't know every education establishments rules about the right to opt out individually for such 'radical' things |
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By *otMe66Man 2 days ago
Terra Firma |
"Man gives person knife knowing person intends to stab someone and does so..
Man isn't without blame..
I'm surprised that you would say that. States making their own decisions is surely a more democratic way, that is who the people voted for locally and not federal.
If it was the other way, he took away the local decision to make it a federal decision, I could understand.
I'm only slightly surprised that you done see the intent and the connection of those who gave the individual states the power to act like a certain regime did in the 1930s..
"
I'm seeing democracy in action, if that state changes colour it can change the previous decisions.
If that was taken away I would feel you were correct.
|
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"free speech? you're 'avin a giraffe! .... so far under the fat old confused bloke 10,000 books have been banned ... some notable titles are:
where the wild things are
his dark materials
the harry potter series
the great gatsby
catch-22
the adventures of huckleberry finn
the diary of a young girl by anne frank
farenheit 451 ( which itself is about a government that burns all books)
I would fact check such statements before posting....
He did I think he was waiting to see who stepped on the landmine before fully revealing the source.. lol
I can't see a decision to ban those books by the Trump administration, can you point in the right direction?
Basically the previous Trump administration gave transferred the authority to ban books in schools from the department of education to local school boards governed by states … it was then “abused” by certain groups to get books related to LGBTQ and African American history banned
Obviously other books have been caught up in this “handmaids tale “ type purge….
Thanks for the clarity
So, Trump and his administration hasn’t banned these books, they pushed the decision making to state and local level. Bans have been made by school governing boards or state policies, not federal policy or decisions.
Imagine increasing local democracy and the rights of parents to decide what their children are taught. Pure fascism in action!
No one was standing in any of the libraries forcing anyone to pick up anything..
Do you seriously believe that teaching the fact that not everyone is straight or there are other sky fairies etc is fascism..
Will add that I don't know every education establishments rules about the right to opt out individually for such 'radical' things"
The problem here is that what's being taught in schools or what books are being kept in school libraries have nothing to do with free speech. |
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"free speech? you're 'avin a giraffe! .... so far under the fat old confused bloke 10,000 books have been banned ... some notable titles are:
where the wild things are
his dark materials
the harry potter series
the great gatsby
catch-22
the adventures of huckleberry finn
the diary of a young girl by anne frank
farenheit 451 ( which itself is about a government that burns all books)
I would fact check such statements before posting....
He did I think he was waiting to see who stepped on the landmine before fully revealing the source.. lol
I can't see a decision to ban those books by the Trump administration, can you point in the right direction?
Basically the previous Trump administration gave transferred the authority to ban books in schools from the department of education to local school boards governed by states … it was then “abused” by certain groups to get books related to LGBTQ and African American history banned
Obviously other books have been caught up in this “handmaids tale “ type purge….
Thanks for the clarity
So, Trump and his administration hasn’t banned these books, they pushed the decision making to state and local level. Bans have been made by school governing boards or state policies, not federal policy or decisions.
Imagine increasing local democracy and the rights of parents to decide what their children are taught. Pure fascism in action!
No one was standing in any of the libraries forcing anyone to pick up anything..
Do you seriously believe that teaching the fact that not everyone is straight or there are other sky fairies etc is fascism..
Will add that I don't know every education establishments rules about the right to opt out individually for such 'radical' things"
We're drifting here. The original claim was that Trump had banned 10,000 books which was absolute nonsense. I support the idea of local decision making and accountability which is the opposite of closing down free speech. I don't think we have the time or knowledge to debate the details of all those 'bans' in this space, and of course those books are freely available to buy and read outside of schools, etc in any part of the US. |
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"In the Trump/Zelensky meeting JD Vance again mentioned his concerns about the growing crackdowns on free speech in Europe, and particularly in the UK.
He said that, given the global nature of online dialogue, any restrictions on online free speech in the UK and EU would inevitably affect US companies and US citizens, and that isn’t something that the US will put up with.
Where is this headed? It seems to be another major difference in ideology and principle between the US and Europe."
Well to have free speech you have to be able to get a word in edgeways. Poor Zelensky kept getting shouted down by Trump and Vance and given no opportunity to counter their claims. |
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"Man gives person knife knowing person intends to stab someone and does so..
Man isn't without blame..
I'm surprised that you would say that. States making their own decisions is surely a more democratic way, that is who the people voted for locally and not federal.
If it was the other way, he took away the local decision to make it a federal decision, I could understand.
I'm only slightly surprised that you done see the intent and the connection of those who gave the individual states the power to act like a certain regime did in the 1930s..
I'm seeing democracy in action, if that state changes colour it can change the previous decisions.
If that was taken away I would feel you were correct.
"
I'm seeing a resurgence of ignorance and hatred, echoes of MacArthyism and a need to seek divisions..
Which if it were the 'other side' doing behind the immorality of the democratic process in this case I would call out and you certainly would do too..
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If we're comparing US and UK free speech and discussing schools, how about the Batley teacher who had to take his family into hiding for fear of his life because of what he taught his students ? I don't see anything like that in the US, or much left wing outrage about it here. |
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"If we're comparing US and UK free speech and discussing schools, how about the Batley teacher who had to take his family into hiding for fear of his life because of what he taught his students ? I don't see anything like that in the US, or much left wing outrage about it here."
now your just willy waving about uk v usa
🤡🤡 |
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" The original claim was that Trump had banned 10,000 books which was absolute nonsense.
no it wasn't, you infered that "
'so far under the fat old confused bloke 10,000 books have been banned'
The books you were referring to were 'banned' under Joe Biden.
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"If we're comparing US and UK free speech and discussing schools, how about the Batley teacher who had to take his family into hiding for fear of his life because of what he taught his students ? I don't see anything like that in the US, or much left wing outrage about it here.
now your just willy waving about uk v usa
🤡🤡"
It's literally the subject of this thread.🤦♂️
Or Fred as you would say. |
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" The original claim was that Trump had banned 10,000 books which was absolute nonsense.
no it wasn't, you infered that
'so far under the fat old confused bloke 10,000 books have been banned'
The books you were referring to were 'banned' under Joe Biden.
"
see, again you've infered that .... but carry on |
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"If we're comparing US and UK free speech and discussing schools, how about the Batley teacher who had to take his family into hiding for fear of his life because of what he taught his students ? I don't see anything like that in the US, or much left wing outrage about it here."
That's a tricky road (not highway)to go down, can't it start with sport or comedy or food or something we can agree on..  |
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"If we're comparing US and UK free speech and discussing schools, how about the Batley teacher who had to take his family into hiding for fear of his life because of what he taught his students ? I don't see anything like that in the US, or much left wing outrage about it here.
"
you missed salman rushdie being stabbed multiple times whilst giving a lecture in new york then. |
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"If we're comparing US and UK free speech and discussing schools, how about the Batley teacher who had to take his family into hiding for fear of his life because of what he taught his students ? I don't see anything like that in the US, or much left wing outrage about it here."
And people getting arrested for burning a book in Manchester and in London recently. The guy who got arrested in London was actually stabbed by an extremist for burning the book and they decided to charge him and the stabber 
Also, the Wakefield incident where a kid who damaged the Quran received death threats and the police watched while the kid's mother had to beg for forgiveness in front of some religious nutters.
People who think UK has better free speech rights than US have no idea what free speech means |
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"If we're comparing US and UK free speech and discussing schools, how about the Batley teacher who had to take his family into hiding for fear of his life because of what he taught his students ? I don't see anything like that in the US, or much left wing outrage about it here.
And people getting arrested for burning a book in Manchester and in London recently. The guy who got arrested in London was actually stabbed by an extremist for burning the book and they decided to charge him and the stabber
Also, the Wakefield incident where a kid who damaged the Quran received death threats and the police watched while the kid's mother had to beg for forgiveness in front of some religious nutters.
People who think UK has better free speech rights than US have no idea what free speech means"
people who think that there has ever been any constitutional right to free speech in the uk is barking |
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"If we're comparing US and UK free speech and discussing schools, how about the Batley teacher who had to take his family into hiding for fear of his life because of what he taught his students ? I don't see anything like that in the US, or much left wing outrage about it here.
And people getting arrested for burning a book in Manchester and in London recently. The guy who got arrested in London was actually stabbed by an extremist for burning the book and they decided to charge him and the stabber
Also, the Wakefield incident where a kid who damaged the Quran received death threats and the police watched while the kid's mother had to beg for forgiveness in front of some religious nutters.
People who think UK has better free speech rights than US have no idea what free speech means"
All very good examples involving the State restricting free speech.
Also a woman in Manchester who criticised a local Councillor online and was visited at home by two Detectives.
|
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"If we're comparing US and UK free speech and discussing schools, how about the Batley teacher who had to take his family into hiding for fear of his life because of what he taught his students ? I don't see anything like that in the US, or much left wing outrage about it here.
And people getting arrested for burning a book in Manchester and in London recently. The guy who got arrested in London was actually stabbed by an extremist for burning the book and they decided to charge him and the stabber
Also, the Wakefield incident where a kid who damaged the Quran received death threats and the police watched while the kid's mother had to beg for forgiveness in front of some religious nutters.
People who think UK has better free speech rights than US have no idea what free speech means
people who think that there has ever been any constitutional right to free speech in the uk is barking"
a
Who thought so? |
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"If we're comparing US and UK free speech and discussing schools, how about the Batley teacher who had to take his family into hiding for fear of his life because of what he taught his students ? I don't see anything like that in the US, or much left wing outrage about it here.
And people getting arrested for burning a book in Manchester and in London recently. The guy who got arrested in London was actually stabbed by an extremist for burning the book and they decided to charge him and the stabber
Also, the Wakefield incident where a kid who damaged the Quran received death threats and the police watched while the kid's mother had to beg for forgiveness in front of some religious nutters.
People who think UK has better free speech rights than US have no idea what free speech means
All very good examples involving the State restricting free speech.
Also a woman in Manchester who criticised a local Councillor online and was visited at home by two Detectives.
"
The woman in Manchester was advised that they had received a complaint, which they have to do. That's as far as it's gone at the moment. |
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"If we're comparing US and UK free speech and discussing schools, how about the Batley teacher who had to take his family into hiding for fear of his life because of what he taught his students ? I don't see anything like that in the US, or much left wing outrage about it here.
And people getting arrested for burning a book in Manchester and in London recently. The guy who got arrested in London was actually stabbed by an extremist for burning the book and they decided to charge him and the stabber
Also, the Wakefield incident where a kid who damaged the Quran received death threats and the police watched while the kid's mother had to beg for forgiveness in front of some religious nutters.
People who think UK has better free speech rights than US have no idea what free speech means
All very good examples involving the State restricting free speech.
Also a woman in Manchester who criticised a local Councillor online and was visited at home by two Detectives.
The woman in Manchester was advised that they had received a complaint, which they have to do. That's as far as it's gone at the moment."
You mean those pinko sandal wearing tofu eatings liberals haven't carted her off to a reeducation camp..
Where she will be forced to read the works of Marx and listen to billy bragg in her vegan friendly new clothes.. |
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"If we're comparing US and UK free speech and discussing schools, how about the Batley teacher who had to take his family into hiding for fear of his life because of what he taught his students ? I don't see anything like that in the US, or much left wing outrage about it here.
And people getting arrested for burning a book in Manchester and in London recently. The guy who got arrested in London was actually stabbed by an extremist for burning the book and they decided to charge him and the stabber
Also, the Wakefield incident where a kid who damaged the Quran received death threats and the police watched while the kid's mother had to beg for forgiveness in front of some religious nutters.
People who think UK has better free speech rights than US have no idea what free speech means
All very good examples involving the State restricting free speech.
Also a woman in Manchester who criticised a local Councillor online and was visited at home by two Detectives.
"
What? She had broken a free speech law?  |
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"If we're comparing US and UK free speech and discussing schools, how about the Batley teacher who had to take his family into hiding for fear of his life because of what he taught his students ? I don't see anything like that in the US, or much left wing outrage about it here.
And people getting arrested for burning a book in Manchester and in London recently. The guy who got arrested in London was actually stabbed by an extremist for burning the book and they decided to charge him and the stabber
Also, the Wakefield incident where a kid who damaged the Quran received death threats and the police watched while the kid's mother had to beg for forgiveness in front of some religious nutters.
People who think UK has better free speech rights than US have no idea what free speech means
All very good examples involving the State restricting free speech.
Also a woman in Manchester who criticised a local Councillor online and was visited at home by two Detectives.
The woman in Manchester was advised that they had received a complaint, which they have to do. That's as far as it's gone at the moment.
You mean those pinko sandal wearing tofu eatings liberals haven't carted her off to a reeducation camp..
Where she will be forced to read the works of Marx and listen to billy bragg in her vegan friendly new clothes.. "
You think two detectives should be visiting people at home for Facebook comments which clearly broke no laws ? |
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You lot obsessed with how the left / right are impinging on freedom's
Unite against the government
Whichever wing it is, they're both our friend
Also who cares if certain book's are banned by schools, just buy them yourself and give them to your kid |
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"If we're comparing US and UK free speech and discussing schools, how about the Batley teacher who had to take his family into hiding for fear of his life because of what he taught his students ? I don't see anything like that in the US, or much left wing outrage about it here.
And people getting arrested for burning a book in Manchester and in London recently. The guy who got arrested in London was actually stabbed by an extremist for burning the book and they decided to charge him and the stabber
Also, the Wakefield incident where a kid who damaged the Quran received death threats and the police watched while the kid's mother had to beg for forgiveness in front of some religious nutters.
People who think UK has better free speech rights than US have no idea what free speech means
All very good examples involving the State restricting free speech.
Also a woman in Manchester who criticised a local Councillor online and was visited at home by two Detectives.
The woman in Manchester was advised that they had received a complaint, which they have to do. That's as far as it's gone at the moment.
You mean those pinko sandal wearing tofu eatings liberals haven't carted her off to a reeducation camp..
Where she will be forced to read the works of Marx and listen to billy bragg in her vegan friendly new clothes..
You think two detectives should be visiting people at home for Facebook comments which clearly broke no laws ?"
As far as I’m aware the investigation is still ongoing, so I don’t know if a law was broken. Do you think people should be subject to an investigation without being informed of the fact. |
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"If we're comparing US and UK free speech and discussing schools, how about the Batley teacher who had to take his family into hiding for fear of his life because of what he taught his students ? I don't see anything like that in the US, or much left wing outrage about it here.
And people getting arrested for burning a book in Manchester and in London recently. The guy who got arrested in London was actually stabbed by an extremist for burning the book and they decided to charge him and the stabber
Also, the Wakefield incident where a kid who damaged the Quran received death threats and the police watched while the kid's mother had to beg for forgiveness in front of some religious nutters.
People who think UK has better free speech rights than US have no idea what free speech means
All very good examples involving the State restricting free speech.
Also a woman in Manchester who criticised a local Councillor online and was visited at home by two Detectives.
The woman in Manchester was advised that they had received a complaint, which they have to do. That's as far as it's gone at the moment.
You mean those pinko sandal wearing tofu eatings liberals haven't carted her off to a reeducation camp..
Where she will be forced to read the works of Marx and listen to billy bragg in her vegan friendly new clothes..
You think two detectives should be visiting people at home for Facebook comments which clearly broke no laws ?
As far as I’m aware the investigation is still ongoing, so I don’t know if a law was broken. Do you think people should be subject to an investigation without being informed of the fact."
What is she investigated for? |
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"In the Trump/Zelensky meeting JD Vance again mentioned his concerns about the growing crackdowns on free speech in Europe, and particularly in the UK.
He said that, given the global nature of online dialogue, any restrictions on online free speech in the UK and EU would inevitably affect US companies and US citizens, and that isn’t something that the US will put up with.
Where is this headed? It seems to be another major difference in ideology and principle between the US and Europe."
In the interest of free speech I say fuck off vance  |
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"If we're comparing US and UK free speech and discussing schools, how about the Batley teacher who had to take his family into hiding for fear of his life because of what he taught his students ? I don't see anything like that in the US, or much left wing outrage about it here.
And people getting arrested for burning a book in Manchester and in London recently. The guy who got arrested in London was actually stabbed by an extremist for burning the book and they decided to charge him and the stabber
Also, the Wakefield incident where a kid who damaged the Quran received death threats and the police watched while the kid's mother had to beg for forgiveness in front of some religious nutters.
People who think UK has better free speech rights than US have no idea what free speech means
All very good examples involving the State restricting free speech.
Also a woman in Manchester who criticised a local Councillor online and was visited at home by two Detectives.
The woman in Manchester was advised that they had received a complaint, which they have to do. That's as far as it's gone at the moment.
You mean those pinko sandal wearing tofu eatings liberals haven't carted her off to a reeducation camp..
Where she will be forced to read the works of Marx and listen to billy bragg in her vegan friendly new clothes..
You think two detectives should be visiting people at home for Facebook comments which clearly broke no laws ?"
I thought Gemma, who I believe has some experience in that area (apologies if I've assumed) clearly answered why it happened..?
You must have missed the slightly satirical nature of my input.. |
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By *otMe66Man 2 days ago
Terra Firma |
"In the Trump/Zelensky meeting JD Vance again mentioned his concerns about the growing crackdowns on free speech in Europe, and particularly in the UK.
He said that, given the global nature of online dialogue, any restrictions on online free speech in the UK and EU would inevitably affect US companies and US citizens, and that isn’t something that the US will put up with.
Where is this headed? It seems to be another major difference in ideology and principle between the US and Europe.
In the interest of free speech I say fuck off vance "
Why would you say that to the person who is promoting the use of free speech? |
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"If we're comparing US and UK free speech and discussing schools, how about the Batley teacher who had to take his family into hiding for fear of his life because of what he taught his students ? I don't see anything like that in the US, or much left wing outrage about it here."
it's almost as if a footballer never got benched for taking the knee.
|
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"In the Trump/Zelensky meeting JD Vance again mentioned his concerns about the growing crackdowns on free speech in Europe, and particularly in the UK.
He said that, given the global nature of online dialogue, any restrictions on online free speech in the UK and EU would inevitably affect US companies and US citizens, and that isn’t something that the US will put up with.
Where is this headed? It seems to be another major difference in ideology and principle between the US and Europe.
In the interest of free speech I say fuck off vance
Why would you say that to the person who is promoting the use of free speech?"
Tongue in cheek |
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By *abioMan 2 days ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"free speech? you're 'avin a giraffe! .... so far under the fat old confused bloke 10,000 books have been banned ... some notable titles are:
where the wild things are
his dark materials
the harry potter series
the great gatsby
catch-22
the adventures of huckleberry finn
the diary of a young girl by anne frank
farenheit 451 ( which itself is about a government that burns all books)
I would fact check such statements before posting....
He did I think he was waiting to see who stepped on the landmine before fully revealing the source.. lol
I can't see a decision to ban those books by the Trump administration, can you point in the right direction?
Basically the previous Trump administration gave transferred the authority to ban books in schools from the department of education to local school boards governed by states … it was then “abused” by certain groups to get books related to LGBTQ and African American history banned
Obviously other books have been caught up in this “handmaids tale “ type purge….
Thanks for the clarity
So, Trump and his administration hasn’t banned these books, they pushed the decision making to state and local level. Bans have been made by school governing boards or state policies, not federal policy or decisions.
Imagine increasing local democracy and the rights of parents to decide what their children are taught. Pure fascism in action! "
A) your “child” or everybody’s “children “
B) in the school districts in concern, it only took 1 complaint about a book to get it initially removed, then the school district would go and see if the book in question should be put back in
C) in the school districts concerned, the campaigns were nationally coordinated locally driven, to the point it was outside groups making the complaints….. you didn’t need to have a child in that particular school district to make the complaint
Basically any book orbiting the subjects of LGBTQ or what they deemed “Critical Race Theory/Thinking” were books that needed removing
|
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"free speech? you're 'avin a giraffe! .... so far under the fat old confused bloke 10,000 books have been banned ... some notable titles are:
where the wild things are
his dark materials
the harry potter series
the great gatsby
catch-22
the adventures of huckleberry finn
the diary of a young girl by anne frank
farenheit 451 ( which itself is about a government that burns all books)
I would fact check such statements before posting....
He did I think he was waiting to see who stepped on the landmine before fully revealing the source.. lol
I can't see a decision to ban those books by the Trump administration, can you point in the right direction?
Basically the previous Trump administration gave transferred the authority to ban books in schools from the department of education to local school boards governed by states … it was then “abused” by certain groups to get books related to LGBTQ and African American history banned
Obviously other books have been caught up in this “handmaids tale “ type purge….
Thanks for the clarity
So, Trump and his administration hasn’t banned these books, they pushed the decision making to state and local level. Bans have been made by school governing boards or state policies, not federal policy or decisions.
Imagine increasing local democracy and the rights of parents to decide what their children are taught. Pure fascism in action!
A) your “child” or everybody’s “children “
B) in the school districts in concern, it only took 1 complaint about a book to get it initially removed, then the school district would go and see if the book in question should be put back in
C) in the school districts concerned, the campaigns were nationally coordinated locally driven, to the point it was outside groups making the complaints….. you didn’t need to have a child in that particular school district to make the complaint
Basically any book orbiting the subjects of LGBTQ or what they deemed “Critical Race Theory/Thinking” were books that needed removing
"
Could the parents, should they want their children to have access to those books, simply not buy them from Amazon etc/ borrow them from a local library
Is it imperative these books MUST be available through the school? |
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"free speech? you're 'avin a giraffe! .... so far under the fat old confused bloke 10,000 books have been banned ... some notable titles are:
where the wild things are
his dark materials
the harry potter series
the great gatsby
catch-22
the adventures of huckleberry finn
the diary of a young girl by anne frank
farenheit 451 ( which itself is about a government that burns all books)
I would fact check such statements before posting....
He did I think he was waiting to see who stepped on the landmine before fully revealing the source.. lol
I can't see a decision to ban those books by the Trump administration, can you point in the right direction?
Basically the previous Trump administration gave transferred the authority to ban books in schools from the department of education to local school boards governed by states … it was then “abused” by certain groups to get books related to LGBTQ and African American history banned
Obviously other books have been caught up in this “handmaids tale “ type purge….
Thanks for the clarity
So, Trump and his administration hasn’t banned these books, they pushed the decision making to state and local level. Bans have been made by school governing boards or state policies, not federal policy or decisions.
Imagine increasing local democracy and the rights of parents to decide what their children are taught. Pure fascism in action!
A) your “child” or everybody’s “children “
B) in the school districts in concern, it only took 1 complaint about a book to get it initially removed, then the school district would go and see if the book in question should be put back in
C) in the school districts concerned, the campaigns were nationally coordinated locally driven, to the point it was outside groups making the complaints….. you didn’t need to have a child in that particular school district to make the complaint
Basically any book orbiting the subjects of LGBTQ or what they deemed “Critical Race Theory/Thinking” were books that needed removing
Could the parents, should they want their children to have access to those books, simply not buy them from Amazon etc/ borrow them from a local library
Is it imperative these books MUST be available through the school?"
What I'm asking, and it's a simple yes/no answer
In the states / counties where these book's are "banned", are they banned outright?
Yes or no? |
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doesn't matter ..... what matters is the point has been proved regarding neo-con hypocrisy with their perception of 'cancel culture' being an exclusively leftwing phenomenon.
the problem with censorship is xxxxxxxxx |
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By *otMe66Man 2 days ago
Terra Firma |
This is way off.... You are conflating school book content decisions with free speech rights. We already have age restrictions for films, laws protecting children from certain content, and this is no different it’s about age appropriate, not censorship.
In the US these decisions aren’t made at the federal level but by local authorities, which is more democratic. And let’s be clear there is nothing stopping parents from buying these books themselves if they want their children to read them.
|
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"This is way off.... You are conflating school book content decisions with free speech rights. We already have age restrictions for films, laws protecting children from certain content, and this is no different it’s about age appropriate, not censorship.
In the US these decisions aren’t made at the federal level but by local authorities, which is more democratic. And let’s be clear there is nothing stopping parents from buying these books themselves if they want their children to read them.
"
predictable right wing garbage |
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"This is way off.... You are conflating school book content decisions with free speech rights. We already have age restrictions for films, laws protecting children from certain content, and this is no different it’s about age appropriate, not censorship.
In the US these decisions aren’t made at the federal level but by local authorities, which is more democratic. And let’s be clear there is nothing stopping parents from buying these books themselves if they want their children to read them.
"
You beginning to sound like Pat.. |
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By *otMe66Man 2 days ago
Terra Firma |
"This is way off.... You are conflating school book content decisions with free speech rights. We already have age restrictions for films, laws protecting children from certain content, and this is no different it’s about age appropriate, not censorship.
In the US these decisions aren’t made at the federal level but by local authorities, which is more democratic. And let’s be clear there is nothing stopping parents from buying these books themselves if they want their children to read them.
You beginning to sound like Pat.."
Behave yourself |
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"This is way off.... You are conflating school book content decisions with free speech rights. We already have age restrictions for films, laws protecting children from certain content, and this is no different it’s about age appropriate, not censorship.
In the US these decisions aren’t made at the federal level but by local authorities, which is more democratic. And let’s be clear there is nothing stopping parents from buying these books themselves if they want their children to read them.
"
These people would argue that banning fifty shades of grey from kindergarten library is very anti free speech. |
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"This is way off.... You are conflating school book content decisions with free speech rights. We already have age restrictions for films, laws protecting children from certain content, and this is no different it’s about age appropriate, not censorship.
In the US these decisions aren’t made at the federal level but by local authorities, which is more democratic. And let’s be clear there is nothing stopping parents from buying these books themselves if they want their children to read them.
You beginning to sound like Pat..
Behave yourself "
There are similarities in the whataboutery area..  |
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If you look into details of the US school book 'bans' you'll see they overwhelmingly involve far left material about critical race theory or extreme sexual identity politics. Why any school anywhere is teaching this Marxist nonsense is highly questionable.
Almost all the classic books listed earlier were either 'banned' years ago or were 'banned' in one single school which then got loads of publicity.
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By *otMe66Man 1 day ago
Terra Firma |
"This is way off.... You are conflating school book content decisions with free speech rights. We already have age restrictions for films, laws protecting children from certain content, and this is no different it’s about age appropriate, not censorship.
In the US these decisions aren’t made at the federal level but by local authorities, which is more democratic. And let’s be clear there is nothing stopping parents from buying these books themselves if they want their children to read them.
You beginning to sound like Pat..
Behave yourself
There are similarities in the whataboutery area.. "
What is my whataboutery? I'm genuinely interested to know |
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"This is way off.... You are conflating school book content decisions with free speech rights. We already have age restrictions for films, laws protecting children from certain content, and this is no different it’s about age appropriate, not censorship.
In the US these decisions aren’t made at the federal level but by local authorities, which is more democratic. And let’s be clear there is nothing stopping parents from buying these books themselves if they want their children to read them.
You beginning to sound like Pat..
Behave yourself
There are similarities in the whataboutery area..
What is my whataboutery? I'm genuinely interested to know "
Your blindness to the fact that trump gave the means for the intolerant and divisive states (essentially his base) to ban across the board such issues as others have stated that they are opposed to..
It's a cop out to say yeah but local democracy..
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