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Trump /Zelensky...
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By *.T. OP Man 3 days ago
Glasgow |
Just seen the footage of Trump and his lackey giving Zelensky a right kicking.
Given that they are both Presidents, it was like Trump berating a intern. I'm actually quite shocked, not that Trump is capable of behaving like that, but the fact he did.
Looks to me he's trying to bully Zelensky into handing over mineral rights in exchange for a reduction in American involvement. |
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"Just seen the footage of Trump and his lackey giving Zelensky a right kicking.
Given that they are both Presidents, it was like Trump berating a intern. I'm actually quite shocked, not that Trump is capable of behaving like that, but the fact he did.
Looks to me he's trying to bully Zelensky into handing over mineral rights in exchange for a reduction in American involvement."
Trump wants the wealth for the US one mine in Ukraine has posably 14.4 million ounces of GOLD retail gold is at £2260 ish so there is lots up for grabs for the bullies. |
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"Zelensky is principled and I'm glad he's not sold his people too short!
Trump is an ignorant bully. Here's hoping they won't get punished too much by him now  "
Putin and North Korea will throw lives on to the fire as Trump put it Ukraine is running out of fighting people 🙄
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Trump and Vance premeditated and planned this …. they are no better than school yard bullies.
I despair that this is what the USA has become, and he is their mouthpiece and their ultimate representative… disgusting and disgusted with the USA.
Putin is laughing his socks off in Kremlin tonight.
R xx |
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"Zalensky is a money laundering dwarf.. trump wasn’t taking crap from the little dictator "
And you view Trump as holier than Christ, or something? In an alternative reality, I suppose anything is possible |
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By *abioMan 3 days ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"Zalensky is a money laundering dwarf.. trump wasn’t taking crap from the little dictator "
Pravda there?
That was 2 big boys trying to act tough by bullying 1 of the other kids |
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Neither Trump nor Vance are fit to tie Zelensky's bootlaces and were enormously disrespectful to him as the leader of another nation - an ally at that!! Does make you wonder if Russia has infiltrated the US administration and is calling the shots. At one point Trump said to him "You've done a lot of talking". The poor gut could hardly gat a word in!! |
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Trump is a realist.
He knows Ukraine has lost and there is no way forward other than securing the best deal possible.
Otherwise the killing will carry on and the situation will just get worse for Ukraine.
Zelensky needs to step aside and let someone take over who can work with Trump to secure the peace. |
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"Trump is a realist.
He knows Ukraine has lost and there is no way forward other than securing the best deal possible.
Otherwise the killing will carry on and the situation will just get worse for Ukraine.
Zelensky needs to step aside and let someone take over who can work with Trump to secure the peace."
Apart from the last bit I think many will agree with that but the last bit is what plays straight into Putin's hands..
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By *otMe66Man 3 days ago
Terra Firma |
What a car crash!
Zelensky was triggered by Vance talking about Biden's administration and a change of course in diplomacy that needed to happen, all of which was directed at the press. Zelensky then opened the door to a shouting match, he should have not started the discussions in front of the media and waited for his moment behind closed doors.
On the other side of the fence, Vance should have closed him down gracefully with a steer to save the type of conversation for the next meeting.
The irony, was the need for diplomacy has never been so evident as in that room... |
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In all my long years as an adult, i have never witnessed that sort of behaviour from any PM or President in public in front of tv cameras. I'm shure it absolutely goes on behind goes on behind closed doors in discussions, but never in public.
If there was ever any doubt in anyone's mind over how fit Trump is to be a President, this surely puts that doubt to bed.
This was absolutely a set up by Trump and Vance. They already knew that Zelenskyy would not sign the mineral deal without security gaurentees, so they chose to humiliate him in full view of the world.
This now shows the whole world that the USA can not be trusted. Tump said he didn't want Zelenskyy to start WW3. After Trumps behaviour today, i think WW3 is a lot closer than it ever was and Trump is reponsible. |
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"Trump is a realist.
He knows Ukraine has lost and there is no way forward other than securing the best deal possible.
Otherwise the killing will carry on and the situation will just get worse for Ukraine.
Zelensky needs to step aside and let someone take over who can work with Trump to secure the peace."
Ukraine has lost …..because its so called allies are so inadequate in providing the weaponry and aircraft. USA now cashing in on the failure. |
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"Trump is a realist.
He knows Ukraine has lost and there is no way forward other than securing the best deal possible.
Otherwise the killing will carry on and the situation will just get worse for Ukraine.
Zelensky needs to step aside and let someone take over who can work with Trump to secure the peace.
Apart from the last bit I think many will agree with that but the last bit is what plays straight into Putin's hands..
"
It’s not really clear what it is that the European Left actually wants.
They seem to want to carry on pouring billions into Ukraine to support the “war effort”.
But the US and Europe have been doing that for years and Ukraine is losing. Pouring more money in won’t make any difference.
Unless Europe is willing to commit troops on the ground (which it won’t) nothing will change. All that will happen is it will just get worse for Ukraine.
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I wonder how Starmer will play it? Will he side with all the pathetic wretches who think this is as much Zelenskyy's fault as Putin's? Or will he dare to call Trump and Vance out for the scum they are?
Only kidding. The State visit will go ahead. The King signed the invitation. |
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It wasn't a very edifying spectacle but this is how US Presidents have always spoken to weaker nations in private. Zelensky needs US support, the US doesn't need Zelensky, so unfortunately he's going to have to eat a few shit sandwiches to survive.
This is realpolitik, always has been - do people not know how much Churchill had to kiss arse to get Roosevelt's support in WW2 and how much Britain had to pay and give up to get it ? |
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It is obvious that trump and his mates are out for themselves
Americans will never accept that they have made a mistake in picking him again
I for one wish he had been hit between the eyes a few months back!!
He’s going to finish the wall between USA and Mexico
He’s going to build Gaza
He’s saying he can fix the Ukraine problem!!
Putin is the problem
Fix him !!
Zelensky was set up by these guys
And as he was trying to say
The world should be wary of Putin
Mainly because of his friends
Not the military might of Russia
Let’s look out for the Ukraine
They are the persecuted ones here
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"Trump is a realist.
He knows Ukraine has lost and there is no way forward other than securing the best deal possible.
Otherwise the killing will carry on and the situation will just get worse for Ukraine.
Zelensky needs to step aside and let someone take over who can work with Trump to secure the peace.
Apart from the last bit I think many will agree with that but the last bit is what plays straight into Putin's hands..
It’s not really clear what it is that the European Left actually wants.
They seem to want to carry on pouring billions into Ukraine to support the “war effort”.
But the US and Europe have been doing that for years and Ukraine is losing. Pouring more money in won’t make any difference.
Unless Europe is willing to commit troops on the ground (which it won’t) nothing will change. All that will happen is it will just get worse for Ukraine.
"
Try and not see everything as left or right, that's the way people like Putin want you to think and thrives on the division..
It won't only get worse for Ukraine with an emboldened dictator like Putin who will exploit trump's perceived focus on only American corporate profits..
And if it goes that way it bodes ill for the free countries in that area.. |
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"Trump is a realist.
He knows Ukraine has lost and there is no way forward other than securing the best deal possible.
Otherwise the killing will carry on and the situation will just get worse for Ukraine.
Zelensky needs to step aside and let someone take over who can work with Trump to secure the peace.
Apart from the last bit I think many will agree with that but the last bit is what plays straight into Putin's hands..
It’s not really clear what it is that the European Left actually wants.
They seem to want to carry on pouring billions into Ukraine to support the “war effort”.
But the US and Europe have been doing that for years and Ukraine is losing. Pouring more money in won’t make any difference.
Unless Europe is willing to commit troops on the ground (which it won’t) nothing will change. All that will happen is it will just get worse for Ukraine.
Try and not see everything as left or right, that's the way people like Putin want you to think and thrives on the division..
It won't only get worse for Ukraine with an emboldened dictator like Putin who will exploit trump's perceived focus on only American corporate profits..
And if it goes that way it bodes ill for the free countries in that area.."
That sounds pretty high minded.
So what’s the way forward? |
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I'm afraid all this does is further cement in to people's minds that the current US Administration wishes to strong-arm other countries for whatever it can get out of it. This was not a meeting between friendly allies. It was a "I'm the big boy in the room (USA), so you sign over everything to me and you can thank me for it afterwards. Do as I say."
.
Where was the humility ? The kindness ? The empathy ? There was none. Zero. Nada. It was once berating statement after another.
.
I think the EU leaders should get their heads together and say to Mr Z "Forget America. We will help you. And we don't even want your resources either. Perhaps a shot at some mutually agreeable trade deals in the future to help both of us, but for now...you keep what little you have left. |
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By *-Dub70Man 3 days ago
Great Barr |
This was a premeditated attack. Trump and Vance doing Putin’s dirty work for him. Europe has to go it alone after this. If America wants to be alone in the wilderness then let them go. DOGE firing federal employees left right and centre. Scammed into voting for a bully boy. |
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"I wonder how Starmer will play it? Will he side with all the pathetic wretches who think this is as much Zelenskyy's fault as Putin's? Or will he dare to call Trump and Vance out for the scum they are?
Only kidding. The State visit will go ahead. The King signed the invitation."
Yes it will
And I wonder if trump will take the opportunity to visit Lego land Windsor
As he needs a few bricks to build his theme park in Gaza |
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"I'm afraid all this does is further cement in to people's minds that the current US Administration wishes to strong-arm other countries for whatever it can get out of it. This was not a meeting between friendly allies. It was a "I'm the big boy in the room (USA), so you sign over everything to me and you can thank me for it afterwards. Do as I say."
.
Where was the humility ? The kindness ? The empathy ? There was none. Zero. Nada. It was once berating statement after another.
.
I think the EU leaders should get their heads together and say to Mr Z "Forget America. We will help you. And we don't even want your resources either. Perhaps a shot at some mutually agreeable trade deals in the future to help both of us, but for now...you keep what little you have left."
Europe should do that.
I’m sure the US would be quite happy with that outcome.
I think I’ve just seen a flying pig.
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I think Zelensky told them how it is, Trump did the same. It's tough talking.
It's real, after the dust has settled they will come up with renewed respect for eachother.
As opposed to Starmer and Trump false love in. Which is set on quicksand.
The only way to resolve Ukraine/Russia is for the two primary participants to get to the negotiation table.
Zelensky isn't losing the war and he's sticking to his guns.
If there is a nuclear war Russia will lose and they will lose their friend Gchina. Because the fall out will go in their direction.
Russia need to fall back to the original border and a negotiation made over shared use of Crimea for access to the Black Sea.
Russia need be made to sign a treaty not to invade neighbouring countries for reassurance.
Trump seem needled in the meeting and had to work hard to get his point across and needed Vance for back up and Zelensky kept his cool.
Trump was right about there'll be no agreement. Mexico immigrants invading USA seems very poignant at this time.
It was oneupmanship on Biden whilst trying to get Zelensky to comply.
A better watch than the Starmer false meeting.
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By *abioMan 3 days ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"I wonder how Starmer will play it? Will he side with all the pathetic wretches who think this is as much Zelenskyy's fault as Putin's? Or will he dare to call Trump and Vance out for the scum they are?
Only kidding. The State visit will go ahead. The King signed the invitation."
Starmer is hosting a European conference with Zelenskyy and other European leaders in London on Sunday
If the uk, France and Germany can come to an agreement.. they will be able to do something pan European (without Hungary)
And that state visit… I bet it never happens… Trump is going to be aware of optics and having hundreds of thousands protesting on streets whilst here is not a good look
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"
And that state visit… I bet it never happens… Trump is going to be aware of optics and having hundreds of thousands protesting on streets whilst here is not a good look
"
confused old bloke won't give a toss about protesters ... he be lapping up the optic of him and being tight with their public bromance |
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"I wonder how Starmer will play it? Will he side with all the pathetic wretches who think this is as much Zelenskyy's fault as Putin's? Or will he dare to call Trump and Vance out for the scum they are?
Only kidding. The State visit will go ahead. The King signed the invitation.
Starmer is hosting a European conference with Zelenskyy and other European leaders in London on Sunday
If the uk, France and Germany can come to an agreement.. they will be able to do something pan European (without Hungary)
And that state visit… I bet it never happens… Trump is going to be aware of optics and having hundreds of thousands protesting on streets whilst here is not a good look
"
“Hundreds of thousands protesting on the streets” lol.
There was a time when the British Left would be protesting against war.
Now (apparently) they are all desperate to get to the Eastern Front. |
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"I'm afraid all this does is further cement in to people's minds that the current US Administration wishes to strong-arm other countries for whatever it can get out of it. This was not a meeting between friendly allies. It was a "I'm the big boy in the room (USA), so you sign over everything to me and you can thank me for it afterwards. Do as I say."
.
Where was the humility ? The kindness ? The empathy ? There was none. Zero. Nada. It was once berating statement after another.
.
I think the EU leaders should get their heads together and say to Mr Z "Forget America. We will help you. And we don't even want your resources either. Perhaps a shot at some mutually agreeable trade deals in the future to help both of us, but for now...you keep what little you have left."
We all know Trump is easily triggered into a rage and is notoriously thin skinned. Zelenskyy made a serious error blaming Trump for inaction over Crimea between 2016 and 2020. That set Trump off.
Let's hope for all our sakes tempers calm down, Zelenskyy eats humble pie and signs Trump's minerals deal. He has little choice in reality. |
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Trump and Vance are business people who were voted in after promising to account for every American dollar. American taxpayers currently have given 350 billion to Ukraine that is 80 times more than Europe. Was I the only who heard Trump say once Europe go in for 50% I am ok with it? The first thing out of Zelenski's mouth should have been " where do I sign". |
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"Trump is a realist.
He knows Ukraine has lost and there is no way forward other than securing the best deal possible.
Otherwise the killing will carry on and the situation will just get worse for Ukraine.
Zelensky needs to step aside and let someone take over who can work with Trump to secure the peace.
Apart from the last bit I think many will agree with that but the last bit is what plays straight into Putin's hands..
It’s not really clear what it is that the European Left actually wants.
They seem to want to carry on pouring billions into Ukraine to support the “war effort”.
But the US and Europe have been doing that for years and Ukraine is losing. Pouring more money in won’t make any difference.
Unless Europe is willing to commit troops on the ground (which it won’t) nothing will change. All that will happen is it will just get worse for Ukraine.
Try and not see everything as left or right, that's the way people like Putin want you to think and thrives on the division..
It won't only get worse for Ukraine with an emboldened dictator like Putin who will exploit trump's perceived focus on only American corporate profits..
And if it goes that way it bodes ill for the free countries in that area..
That sounds pretty high minded.
So what’s the way forward?"
Somebody (and therein lies the issue) has to try and get trump to see the bigger picture of how this might act out which if it goes badly during his tenure isn't the type of legacy any US president wants to be responsible and remembered for..
That today was not a good look for the office he holds..
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I now understand why Trump has the ridiculous combover he does … he wants to hide the 666 tattooed on his head.
I guess on this occasion the Monks of Megiddo didn’t get through … worrying!
#omentrilogy |
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"Trump is a realist.
He knows Ukraine has lost and there is no way forward other than securing the best deal possible.
Otherwise the killing will carry on and the situation will just get worse for Ukraine.
Zelensky needs to step aside and let someone take over who can work with Trump to secure the peace.
Apart from the last bit I think many will agree with that but the last bit is what plays straight into Putin's hands..
It’s not really clear what it is that the European Left actually wants.
They seem to want to carry on pouring billions into Ukraine to support the “war effort”.
But the US and Europe have been doing that for years and Ukraine is losing. Pouring more money in won’t make any difference.
Unless Europe is willing to commit troops on the ground (which it won’t) nothing will change. All that will happen is it will just get worse for Ukraine.
Try and not see everything as left or right, that's the way people like Putin want you to think and thrives on the division..
It won't only get worse for Ukraine with an emboldened dictator like Putin who will exploit trump's perceived focus on only American corporate profits..
And if it goes that way it bodes ill for the free countries in that area..
That sounds pretty high minded.
So what’s the way forward?
Somebody (and therein lies the issue) has to try and get trump to see the bigger picture of how this might act out which if it goes badly during his tenure isn't the type of legacy any US president wants to be responsible and remembered for..
That today was not a good look for the office he holds..
"
Okay I’ll go with it.
So someone persuades Trump to do what Europe wants.
What’s next? |
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"Trump and Vance are business people who were voted in after promising to account for every American dollar. American taxpayers currently have given 350 billion to Ukraine that is 80 times more than Europe. Was I the only who heard Trump say once Europe go in for 50% I am ok with it? The first thing out of Zelenski's mouth should have been " where do I sign". "
Trump now has a clear track record of employing people who simply aren’t qualified for the job they are now doing,
With one exception - Stormy Daniels!! |
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"Trump is a realist.
He knows Ukraine has lost and there is no way forward other than securing the best deal possible.
Otherwise the killing will carry on and the situation will just get worse for Ukraine.
Zelensky needs to step aside and let someone take over who can work with Trump to secure the peace.
Apart from the last bit I think many will agree with that but the last bit is what plays straight into Putin's hands..
It’s not really clear what it is that the European Left actually wants.
They seem to want to carry on pouring billions into Ukraine to support the “war effort”.
But the US and Europe have been doing that for years and Ukraine is losing. Pouring more money in won’t make any difference.
Unless Europe is willing to commit troops on the ground (which it won’t) nothing will change. All that will happen is it will just get worse for Ukraine.
Try and not see everything as left or right, that's the way people like Putin want you to think and thrives on the division..
It won't only get worse for Ukraine with an emboldened dictator like Putin who will exploit trump's perceived focus on only American corporate profits..
And if it goes that way it bodes ill for the free countries in that area..
That sounds pretty high minded.
So what’s the way forward?
Somebody (and therein lies the issue) has to try and get trump to see the bigger picture of how this might act out which if it goes badly during his tenure isn't the type of legacy any US president wants to be responsible and remembered for..
That today was not a good look for the office he holds..
Okay I’ll go with it.
So someone persuades Trump to do what Europe wants.
What’s next?"
Trump gets his rate earth, Ukraine gets it's security guarantees and Europe commits seriously to upping it's defence spending..
I don't think Europe alone persuades trump, it needs to be the those with vested interests in not having a global financial hit with the that a weak Ukraine and a strong Russia under the current leader..
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"Trump and Vance so badly informed ….the USA co signed with others inc UK, the 1994 Budapest memorandum. "
It is ironic that Vance clumsily refered to Ukraine having to resort to conscription when they were ‘short of men’…. exactly what the USA did in WW1, WW2, Korea and Vietnam…. and they weren’t as perhaps as short as men as Ukraine is now!!
Also note that Vance has no intention of going anywhere near a war zone in visiting Ukraine …. Something has in common with his boss… who has a history here!!
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Serious question.
Realistically can you see Trump lasting the term?
I'm not talking bumped off I mean pushed out, that said I saw a news report the other day talking to regular Americans and they seemed to love him.
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By *oo hotCouple 3 days ago
North West |
"Trump is a realist.
He knows Ukraine has lost and there is no way forward other than securing the best deal possible.
Otherwise the killing will carry on and the situation will just get worse for Ukraine.
Zelensky needs to step aside and let someone take over who can work with Trump to secure the peace."
You are wrong. Ukraine’s drone programme is expanding at a phenomenal rate and the Russian advances in the east have slowed right down.
Drones might not win this war but they will certainly prevent Ukraine from losing it. |
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The only ones badly informed are those outside the US. All the UK news channels ignored that Trump said " once Europe put in 50% I am ok ". Good on him for having the interest of the American taxpayer to the fore. That is a trait long gone in Europe. |
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"Trump is a realist.
He knows Ukraine has lost and there is no way forward other than securing the best deal possible.
Otherwise the killing will carry on and the situation will just get worse for Ukraine.
Zelensky needs to step aside and let someone take over who can work with Trump to secure the peace.
You are wrong. Ukraine’s drone programme is expanding at a phenomenal rate and the Russian advances in the east have slowed right down.
Drones might not win this war but they will certainly prevent Ukraine from losing it."
Okay so let’s accept you are correct.
Ukraine can’t win but it won’t lose.
So they fight in until the last Ukrainian is dead or has fled abroad? |
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"Serious question.
Realistically can you see Trump lasting the term?
I'm not talking bumped off I mean pushed out, that said I saw a news report the other day talking to regular Americans and they seemed to love him.
"
The majority of Americans want a swift end to the war.
They voted for Trump.
Trump is doing what he said he would.
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"The only ones badly informed are those outside the US. All the UK news channels ignored that Trump said " once Europe put in 50% I am ok ". Good on him for having the interest of the American taxpayer to the fore. That is a trait long gone in Europe. "
He has a point, for too long many European countries haven't pulled their weight.. |
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"Trump telling the Ukrainian president to "make a deal or we're out"
It’s all on Europe now. Will they step up
Step up and do what?"
If USA is out Europe will need to at least double its military commitment to replace USA |
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"The only ones badly informed are those outside the US. All the UK news channels ignored that Trump said " once Europe put in 50% I am ok ". Good on him for having the interest of the American taxpayer to the fore. That is a trait long gone in Europe.
He has a point, for too long many European countries haven't pulled their weight.."
I complete my agree …. He is the only reason Kier Stoma has upped defence spending …. but that 0.5% will not touch the sides of the hole that needs to be filled that has been created by ALL parties since the fall of the Berlin Wall.
‘We’ as in Europe, appeased and sleepwalked into major conflict in 1939 … and I’m afraid history is repeating itself!
After whatever ‘peace’ ensues out of this, the calculation is that by spending 7% of GDP on ‘defence’, Russia will have regenerated in 4-5 years, AND will put into practice all they have learned in Ukraine - that is how Russian doctrine evolves! … look at Afghanistan and Chechnya.
We have 4 years ….the clock is ticking! |
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"The only ones badly informed are those outside the US. All the UK news channels ignored that Trump said " once Europe put in 50% I am ok ". Good on him for having the interest of the American taxpayer to the fore. That is a trait long gone in Europe.
He has a point, for too long many European countries haven't pulled their weight..
I complete my agree …. He is the only reason Kier Stoma has upped defence spending …. but that 0.5% will not touch the sides of the hole that needs to be filled that has been created by ALL parties since the fall of the Berlin Wall.
‘We’ as in Europe, appeased and sleepwalked into major conflict in 1939 … and I’m afraid history is repeating itself!
After whatever ‘peace’ ensues out of this, the calculation is that by spending 7% of GDP on ‘defence’, Russia will have regenerated in 4-5 years, AND will put into practice all they have learned in Ukraine - that is how Russian doctrine evolves! … look at Afghanistan and Chechnya.
We have 4 years ….the clock is ticking! "
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By *eacresteMan 3 days ago
hart village - Hartlepool |
Went really badly. I'm sure this goes on frequently in private but not Infront of the cameras ffs
I think zelenski should have ignored the question and said we'll discuss this later or something like that.
Zelenski may decide to sell himself out to save his country? I don't know.
The history of Ukraine is a bad one, treated terribly by Russia through Soviet rule, Stalin, the Nazis and now this! Really badly let down by successive potus , pushed under the bus by NATO and Joe biden and now by trump - comprehensively badly let down and shows the USA can't be trusted
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"Went really badly. I'm sure this goes on frequently in private but not Infront of the cameras ffs
I think zelenski should have ignored the question and said we'll discuss this later or something like that.
Zelenski may decide to sell himself out to save his country? I don't know.
The history of Ukraine is a bad one, treated terribly by Russia through Soviet rule, Stalin, the Nazis and now this! Really badly let down by successive potus , pushed under the bus by NATO and Joe biden and now by trump - comprehensively badly let down and shows the USA can't be trusted
"
Europe apparently all full of support tonight
Silence from Uk and Lammy on the UK’s 100 year commitment to Ukraine.
USA is out. Ukraine’s future depends on Europe who won’t be going up against Russia. |
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"Went really badly. I'm sure this goes on frequently in private but not Infront of the cameras ffs
I think zelenski should have ignored the question and said we'll discuss this later or something like that.
Zelenski may decide to sell himself out to save his country? I don't know.
The history of Ukraine is a bad one, treated terribly by Russia through Soviet rule, Stalin, the Nazis and now this! Really badly let down by successive potus , pushed under the bus by NATO and Joe biden and now by trump - comprehensively badly let down and shows the USA can't be trusted
Europe apparently all full of support tonight
Silence from Uk and Lammy on the UK’s 100 year commitment to Ukraine.
USA is out. Ukraine’s future depends on Europe who won’t be going up against Russia. "
Xi will be waiting in the sidelines and offering to negotiate a deal, whilst salivating at all the minerals within his reach….. and Zelensky then pays off the US with the proceeds |
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By *bcplCouple 3 days ago
Aberdeenshire |
"Serious question.
Realistically can you see Trump lasting the term?
I'm not talking bumped off I mean pushed out, that said I saw a news report the other day talking to regular Americans and they seemed to love him.
The majority of Americans want a swift end to the war.
They voted for Trump.
Trump is doing what he said he would.
"
Love him or hate him Trump does what he says he’s going to do! That’s a lot more than previous presidents and our spineless PM’s have ever done.
Mr |
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"The only ones badly informed are those outside the US. All the UK news channels ignored that Trump said " once Europe put in 50% I am ok ". Good on him for having the interest of the American taxpayer to the fore. That is a trait long gone in Europe.
He has a point, for too long many European countries haven't pulled their weight.."
|
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"Serious question.
Realistically can you see Trump lasting the term?
I'm not talking bumped off I mean pushed out, that said I saw a news report the other day talking to regular Americans and they seemed to love him.
The majority of Americans want a swift end to the war.
They voted for Trump.
Trump is doing what he said he would.
Love him or hate him Trump does what he says he’s going to do! That’s a lot more than previous presidents and our spineless PM’s have ever done.
Mr "
I am saying this without a hint of humour, but I don't think he even knows what day it is. He can't remember what he says one day to the next. Americans won't love him when things start costing a lot more because of his obsession on tarrifs |
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Zelensky was never going to sign a deal without guarantees of a military backstop in a peace deal. Why would he? They've already had the money.
Europe now has to upscale it's support for Ukraine and ergo, it's defence budgets, because it's clear that, for the next four years at least, USA isn't going to look out for us.
UK now has to decide whether it's Team Europe or Team USA, my money is on the former whilst trying not to rock the boat with the latter. |
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"Trump is a realist.
He knows Ukraine has lost and there is no way forward other than securing the best deal possible.
Otherwise the killing will carry on and the situation will just get worse for Ukraine.
Zelensky needs to step aside and let someone take over who can work with Trump to secure the peace."
____________________________________
Nobody can work with Trump. |
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"Serious question.
Realistically can you see Trump lasting the term?
I'm not talking bumped off I mean pushed out, that said I saw a news report the other day talking to regular Americans and they seemed to love him.
The majority of Americans want a swift end to the war.
They voted for Trump.
Trump is doing what he said he would.
Love him or hate him Trump does what he says he’s going to do! That’s a lot more than previous presidents and our spineless PM’s have ever done.
Mr
I am saying this without a hint of humour, but I don't think he even knows what day it is. He can't remember what he says one day to the next. Americans won't love him when things start costing a lot more because of his obsession on tarrifs"
Trump has just made America as week as he is. |
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"Serious question.
Realistically can you see Trump lasting the term?
I'm not talking bumped off I mean pushed out, that said I saw a news report the other day talking to regular Americans and they seemed to love him.
The majority of Americans want a swift end to the war.
They voted for Trump.
Trump is doing what he said he would.
Love him or hate him Trump does what he says he’s going to do! That’s a lot more than previous presidents and our spineless PM’s have ever done.
Mr "
_______________________________
Doing what you say you're going to do isn't necessarily a virtue, Hitler, Amin, Mugabe, Mussolini, Stalin, Pol Pot etc etc prove that. |
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"Serious question.
Realistically can you see Trump lasting the term?
I'm not talking bumped off I mean pushed out, that said I saw a news report the other day talking to regular Americans and they seemed to love him.
The majority of Americans want a swift end to the war.
They voted for Trump.
Trump is doing what he said he would.
Love him or hate him Trump does what he says he’s going to do! That’s a lot more than previous presidents and our spineless PM’s have ever done.
Mr
_______________________________
Doing what you say you're going to do isn't necessarily a virtue, Hitler, Amin, Mugabe, Mussolini, Stalin, Pol Pot etc etc prove that."
Yes it’s much better if people say one thing and do another.
Which is what Europe will do about Ukraine.
|
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By *bcplCouple 3 days ago
Aberdeenshire |
"Serious question.
Realistically can you see Trump lasting the term?
I'm not talking bumped off I mean pushed out, that said I saw a news report the other day talking to regular Americans and they seemed to love him.
The majority of Americans want a swift end to the war.
They voted for Trump.
Trump is doing what he said he would.
Love him or hate him Trump does what he says he’s going to do! That’s a lot more than previous presidents and our spineless PM’s have ever done.
Mr
_______________________________
Doing what you say you're going to do isn't necessarily a virtue, Hitler, Amin, Mugabe, Mussolini, Stalin, Pol Pot etc etc prove that.
Yes it’s much better if people say one thing and do another.
Which is what Europe will do about Ukraine.
"
Or say they will do something but it’s just lies and they do nothing, like UK, like Europe  |
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Wow! From a practical, realistic point of view, he should probably have sucked it up and nodded in agreement but I admire the man for not doing doing so, for refusing to be bullied and, in a way, in forces the European powers to deliver on their promises...if anyone actually believes they will |
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"The only ones badly informed are those outside the US. All the UK news channels ignored that Trump said " once Europe put in 50% I am ok ". Good on him for having the interest of the American taxpayer to the fore. That is a trait long gone in Europe. "
The influential German research group, the Kiel Institute for the World Economy, maintains a database on spending and aid commitments to Ukraine called the Ukraine Support Tracker (UST).
It is the most cited database on the issue, and includes figures on military, financial, and humanitarian aid committed by countries around the world since diplomatic ties with Russia ended on January 24, 2022.
According to the UST data, the US spent €118bn on aid to Ukraine as of 31 December 2024. This is broken down into €64 billion in military aid and €50 billion in financial and humanitarian allocations. A further €4bn has been committed but not yet allocated.
During the same period, European nations and institutions (like the European Commission) had spent around €132bn. That is broken down as €70bn in financial and humanitarian aid and €62 billion in military aid. An additional €115bn has been committed but not yet allocated. |
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"The only ones badly informed are those outside the US. All the UK news channels ignored that Trump said " once Europe put in 50% I am ok ". Good on him for having the interest of the American taxpayer to the fore. That is a trait long gone in Europe.
The influential German research group, the Kiel Institute for the World Economy, maintains a database on spending and aid commitments to Ukraine called the Ukraine Support Tracker (UST).
It is the most cited database on the issue, and includes figures on military, financial, and humanitarian aid committed by countries around the world since diplomatic ties with Russia ended on January 24, 2022.
According to the UST data, the US spent €118bn on aid to Ukraine as of 31 December 2024. This is broken down into €64 billion in military aid and €50 billion in financial and humanitarian allocations. A further €4bn has been committed but not yet allocated.
During the same period, European nations and institutions (like the European Commission) had spent around €132bn. That is broken down as €70bn in financial and humanitarian aid and €62 billion in military aid. An additional €115bn has been committed but not yet allocated."
It's genuinely shocking that swingers in the UK are better informed the President and Vice President of the United States |
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"The only ones badly informed are those outside the US. All the UK news channels ignored that Trump said " once Europe put in 50% I am ok ". Good on him for having the interest of the American taxpayer to the fore. That is a trait long gone in Europe.
The influential German research group, the Kiel Institute for the World Economy, maintains a database on spending and aid commitments to Ukraine called the Ukraine Support Tracker (UST).
It is the most cited database on the issue, and includes figures on military, financial, and humanitarian aid committed by countries around the world since diplomatic ties with Russia ended on January 24, 2022.
According to the UST data, the US spent €118bn on aid to Ukraine as of 31 December 2024. This is broken down into €64 billion in military aid and €50 billion in financial and humanitarian allocations. A further €4bn has been committed but not yet allocated.
During the same period, European nations and institutions (like the European Commission) had spent around €132bn. That is broken down as €70bn in financial and humanitarian aid and €62 billion in military aid. An additional €115bn has been committed but not yet allocated."
Sounds like the Europeans just need to fill the €118 billion “black hole”.
Should be a pretty easy task. Just need to stop talking about it and get on with it. |
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"The only ones badly informed are those outside the US. All the UK news channels ignored that Trump said " once Europe put in 50% I am ok ". Good on him for having the interest of the American taxpayer to the fore. That is a trait long gone in Europe.
The influential German research group, the Kiel Institute for the World Economy, maintains a database on spending and aid commitments to Ukraine called the Ukraine Support Tracker (UST).
It is the most cited database on the issue, and includes figures on military, financial, and humanitarian aid committed by countries around the world since diplomatic ties with Russia ended on January 24, 2022.
According to the UST data, the US spent €118bn on aid to Ukraine as of 31 December 2024. This is broken down into €64 billion in military aid and €50 billion in financial and humanitarian allocations. A further €4bn has been committed but not yet allocated.
During the same period, European nations and institutions (like the European Commission) had spent around €132bn. That is broken down as €70bn in financial and humanitarian aid and €62 billion in military aid. An additional €115bn has been committed but not yet allocated.
Sounds like the Europeans just need to fill the €118 billion “black hole”.
Should be a pretty easy task. Just need to stop talking about it and get on with it."
I've said it before and I'll say it again, political will or the guts to get involved. The EU has a GDP of £20tn, Russia has £2tn. The EU has a population of 450m, Russia has 144m. The UK defence journal indicates that NATO without the US is more than capable of repelling russian forces... political will |
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"The only ones badly informed are those outside the US. All the UK news channels ignored that Trump said " once Europe put in 50% I am ok ". Good on him for having the interest of the American taxpayer to the fore. That is a trait long gone in Europe.
The influential German research group, the Kiel Institute for the World Economy, maintains a database on spending and aid commitments to Ukraine called the Ukraine Support Tracker (UST).
It is the most cited database on the issue, and includes figures on military, financial, and humanitarian aid committed by countries around the world since diplomatic ties with Russia ended on January 24, 2022.
According to the UST data, the US spent €118bn on aid to Ukraine as of 31 December 2024. This is broken down into €64 billion in military aid and €50 billion in financial and humanitarian allocations. A further €4bn has been committed but not yet allocated.
During the same period, European nations and institutions (like the European Commission) had spent around €132bn. That is broken down as €70bn in financial and humanitarian aid and €62 billion in military aid. An additional €115bn has been committed but not yet allocated.
Sounds like the Europeans just need to fill the €118 billion “black hole”.
Should be a pretty easy task. Just need to stop talking about it and get on with it.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, political will or the guts to get involved. The EU has a GDP of £20tn, Russia has £2tn. The EU has a population of 450m, Russia has 144m. The UK defence journal indicates that NATO without the US is more than capable of repelling russian forces... political will"
What does “get involved” mean? |
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"The only ones badly informed are those outside the US. All the UK news channels ignored that Trump said " once Europe put in 50% I am ok ". Good on him for having the interest of the American taxpayer to the fore. That is a trait long gone in Europe.
The influential German research group, the Kiel Institute for the World Economy, maintains a database on spending and aid commitments to Ukraine called the Ukraine Support Tracker (UST).
It is the most cited database on the issue, and includes figures on military, financial, and humanitarian aid committed by countries around the world since diplomatic ties with Russia ended on January 24, 2022.
According to the UST data, the US spent €118bn on aid to Ukraine as of 31 December 2024. This is broken down into €64 billion in military aid and €50 billion in financial and humanitarian allocations. A further €4bn has been committed but not yet allocated.
During the same period, European nations and institutions (like the European Commission) had spent around €132bn. That is broken down as €70bn in financial and humanitarian aid and €62 billion in military aid. An additional €115bn has been committed but not yet allocated.
Sounds like the Europeans just need to fill the €118 billion “black hole”.
Should be a pretty easy task. Just need to stop talking about it and get on with it.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, political will or the guts to get involved. The EU has a GDP of £20tn, Russia has £2tn. The EU has a population of 450m, Russia has 144m. The UK defence journal indicates that NATO without the US is more than capable of repelling russian forces... political will
What does “get involved” mean?"
It means do what the west relies on the US to do |
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"The only ones badly informed are those outside the US. All the UK news channels ignored that Trump said " once Europe put in 50% I am ok ". Good on him for having the interest of the American taxpayer to the fore. That is a trait long gone in Europe.
The influential German research group, the Kiel Institute for the World Economy, maintains a database on spending and aid commitments to Ukraine called the Ukraine Support Tracker (UST).
It is the most cited database on the issue, and includes figures on military, financial, and humanitarian aid committed by countries around the world since diplomatic ties with Russia ended on January 24, 2022.
According to the UST data, the US spent €118bn on aid to Ukraine as of 31 December 2024. This is broken down into €64 billion in military aid and €50 billion in financial and humanitarian allocations. A further €4bn has been committed but not yet allocated.
During the same period, European nations and institutions (like the European Commission) had spent around €132bn. That is broken down as €70bn in financial and humanitarian aid and €62 billion in military aid. An additional €115bn has been committed but not yet allocated.
Sounds like the Europeans just need to fill the €118 billion “black hole”.
Should be a pretty easy task. Just need to stop talking about it and get on with it.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, political will or the guts to get involved. The EU has a GDP of £20tn, Russia has £2tn. The EU has a population of 450m, Russia has 144m. The UK defence journal indicates that NATO without the US is more than capable of repelling russian forces... political will
What does “get involved” mean?
It means do what the west relies on the US to do"
Spend lots of money to no end?
Or are you wanting direct war with Russia? |
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"The only ones badly informed are those outside the US. All the UK news channels ignored that Trump said " once Europe put in 50% I am ok ". Good on him for having the interest of the American taxpayer to the fore. That is a trait long gone in Europe.
The influential German research group, the Kiel Institute for the World Economy, maintains a database on spending and aid commitments to Ukraine called the Ukraine Support Tracker (UST).
It is the most cited database on the issue, and includes figures on military, financial, and humanitarian aid committed by countries around the world since diplomatic ties with Russia ended on January 24, 2022.
According to the UST data, the US spent €118bn on aid to Ukraine as of 31 December 2024. This is broken down into €64 billion in military aid and €50 billion in financial and humanitarian allocations. A further €4bn has been committed but not yet allocated.
During the same period, European nations and institutions (like the European Commission) had spent around €132bn. That is broken down as €70bn in financial and humanitarian aid and €62 billion in military aid. An additional €115bn has been committed but not yet allocated.
Sounds like the Europeans just need to fill the €118 billion “black hole”.
Should be a pretty easy task. Just need to stop talking about it and get on with it.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, political will or the guts to get involved. The EU has a GDP of £20tn, Russia has £2tn. The EU has a population of 450m, Russia has 144m. The UK defence journal indicates that NATO without the US is more than capable of repelling russian forces... political will
What does “get involved” mean?
It means do what the west relies on the US to do
Spend lots of money to no end?
Or are you wanting direct war with Russia?"
Provide the security guarantees themselves. Why do you fear direct conflict with Russia? Is it it ok if it's some other country on the front line? |
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"‘why don’t you wear a suit ‘
Z. Looking at the questioner’Maybe I wear something better’ "
It seems that the only person that can get away without wearing a suit in the white house is President Musk. |
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Trump is Putin's puppet.
vance is trump's puppet.
Trump is a draft dodging coward.
Also loves pissing games in Russia where the KGB filmed him at it, probably with underagers just like his pal Epstein.
Trump's going senile, once he's fragmented the west he'll be sidelined for Vance. Russia wins all round.
Christ the yanks are so easily duped. |
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Vance chipped in and turned that into a shit show. Berating Zelensky for not wearing a suit and not saying thank you FFS!!! Vance is a turd…he only felt brave enough because Trump was in the room sat between him and Zelensky.
It’s an absolute disgrace the way Zelensky has been treated. Trump has gone from well-regarded to absolute zero today…it’s just NOT the way to do things. Zelensky was the victim of a pre-planned mugging by muppets, in front of the whole world’s media, and America is much the poorer for that. |
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"‘why don’t you wear a suit ‘
Z. Looking at the questioner’Maybe I wear something better’
It seems that the only person that can get away without wearing a suit in the white house is President Musk. "
Musk looks, acts and dresses like a child…if he wasn’t so rich he’d be laughed out of Washington. |
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"Trump and Vance are business people who were voted in after promising to account for every American dollar. American taxpayers currently have given 350 billion to Ukraine that is 80 times more than Europe. Was I the only who heard Trump say once Europe go in for 50% I am ok with it? The first thing out of Zelenski's mouth should have been " where do I sign".
Trump now has a clear track record of employing people who simply aren’t qualified for the job they are now doing,
With one exception - Stormy Daniels!! "
Stormy Daniels…it would be rude not to!!!  |
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By *abioMan 2 days ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"I wonder how Starmer will play it? Will he side with all the pathetic wretches who think this is as much Zelenskyy's fault as Putin's? Or will he dare to call Trump and Vance out for the scum they are?
Only kidding. The State visit will go ahead. The King signed the invitation.
Starmer is hosting a European conference with Zelenskyy and other European leaders in London on Sunday
If the uk, France and Germany can come to an agreement.. they will be able to do something pan European (without Hungary)
And that state visit… I bet it never happens… Trump is going to be aware of optics and having hundreds of thousands protesting on streets whilst here is not a good look
“Hundreds of thousands protesting on the streets” lol.
There was a time when the British Left would be protesting against war.
Now (apparently) they are all desperate to get to the Eastern Front."
I know you are very simplistic but Can I let you into a secret….
When it comes down to Trump… it’s not a “left vs right thing”… for a lot of people it’s a “matter of decency thing” 
Reading your posts, I can see a lot of Russians sympathisers/ Putin talking points in there… that’s okay if that is your view! Embrace it!
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By *abioMan 2 days ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"Trump and Vance are business people who were voted in after promising to account for every American dollar. American taxpayers currently have given 350 billion to Ukraine that is 80 times more than Europe. Was I the only who heard Trump say once Europe go in for 50% I am ok with it? The first thing out of Zelenski's mouth should have been " where do I sign". "
Can I put you right … those figures… I know trump likes it exaggerate for domestic purposes , which is why macron and starmer both had to actually correct him in their public meetings
The figure the us has given in loans and guarantees is not anywhere close to 350 billion dollars… it’s actually 119 billion dollars
the UK and the EU…. Combined they have given 148 billion dollars in loans and guarantees |
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By *abioMan 2 days ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"Serious question.
Realistically can you see Trump lasting the term?
I'm not talking bumped off I mean pushed out, that said I saw a news report the other day talking to regular Americans and they seemed to love him.
"
It may seem like an age… but Trump has only been in office for 35 days!! 
Like a lot of people here with starmer (who has only been in office 7 months) there will be a give him time element… one his policies start to bite, that’s when the turn will start
For example.. laying off of the federal workforce now sounds good.. when it starts affecting services, that’s when issues arise
The impending tariffs war… prices in grocery stores start going up… inflation and job losses |
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"
Provide the security guarantees themselves. Why do you fear direct conflict with Russia? Is it it ok if it's some other country on the front line?"
5,380 nuclear warheads is good reason to fear a direct confrontation with Russia. Especially without the USA.
Europe only has 515. UK with 225, France 290. We need the US 5,044 warheads for a nuclear umbrella.
Unless your willing to gamble Russia won't use them or they don't work..
|
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"Trump and Vance are business people who were voted in after promising to account for every American dollar. American taxpayers currently have given 350 billion to Ukraine that is 80 times more than Europe. Was I the only who heard Trump say once Europe go in for 50% I am ok with it? The first thing out of Zelenski's mouth should have been " where do I sign". "
That's simply not true. The US has given about $115 billion in aid with no further aid currently committed. This is split roughly 40% loans and 60% grants. Europe, including the UK, has given $135 billion in aid with a further $115 commited. This is split roughly 60% loans and 40% grants. |
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"The only ones badly informed are those outside the US. All the UK news channels ignored that Trump said " once Europe put in 50% I am ok ". Good on him for having the interest of the American taxpayer to the fore. That is a trait long gone in Europe. "
Europe has already but in more than 50%. Europe has put in $135 billion compared to the US's $115 billion. that makes 54%. If you add what Europe has also committed to spend going forward (a further $114 billion) that makes Europe's contribution 62%. |
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"Serious question.
Realistically can you see Trump lasting the term?
I'm not talking bumped off I mean pushed out, that said I saw a news report the other day talking to regular Americans and they seemed to love him.
The majority of Americans want a swift end to the war.
They voted for Trump.
Trump is doing what he said he would.
Love him or hate him Trump does what he says he’s going to do! That’s a lot more than previous presidents and our spineless PM’s have ever done.
Mr "
Didn't Trump say he would bring peace to Ukraine within 24 hours of being elected, never mind becoming POTUS?. Well it's over a month since Trump became POTUS and nearly 3 months since he was elected. How's that "doing what he says he going to do"? |
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By *eacresteMan 2 days ago
hart village - Hartlepool |
Best way forward for Europe I think is to scrap NATO and the USA and form a European defence alliance.
Make some sort of deal with Putin on the basis that they keep the Crimean peninsula and in return Putin accepts europe@n defence alliance on the rest of the Ukraine.
Just my humble opinion |
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"Best way forward for Europe I think is to scrap NATO and the USA and form a European defence alliance.
Make some sort of deal with Putin on the basis that they keep the Crimean peninsula and in return Putin accepts europe@n defence alliance on the rest of the Ukraine.
Just my humble opinion"
But with which countries? Ireland and Austria aren't even in NATO, would they chip into a common defence plan? Would Hungary? |
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"My guess being Putin was pissed at NATO expanding into Russia border snd also want the crimean peninsula for blaçk sea access
Not perfect but may end the killing
"
russia don't need crimea for black sea access |
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By *eacresteMan 2 days ago
hart village - Hartlepool |
"Best way forward for Europe I think is to scrap NATO and the USA and form a European defence alliance.
Make some sort of deal with Putin on the basis that they keep the Crimean peninsula and in return Putin accepts europe@n defence alliance on the rest of the Ukraine.
Just my humble opinion
But with which countries? Ireland and Austria aren't even in NATO, would they chip into a common defence plan? Would Hungary? "
Not sure tbh.
Current NATO counties for a start possibly even without Canada too.
The Russians failed to invade Ukraine due to being very poor quality so for the time being I think Europe could easily stop conventional russian forces.
|
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"
Provide the security guarantees themselves. Why do you fear direct conflict with Russia? Is it it ok if it's some other country on the front line?
5,380 nuclear warheads is good reason to fear a direct confrontation with Russia. Especially without the USA.
Europe only has 515. UK with 225, France 290. We need the US 5,044 warheads for a nuclear umbrella.
Unless your willing to gamble Russia won't use them or they don't work..
"
How many warheads do you think it would need to wipe out Moscow. |
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"Serious question.
Realistically can you see Trump lasting the term?
I'm not talking bumped off I mean pushed out, that said I saw a news report the other day talking to regular Americans and they seemed to love him.
The majority of Americans want a swift end to the war.
They voted for Trump.
Trump is doing what he said he would.
Love him or hate him Trump does what he says he’s going to do! That’s a lot more than previous presidents and our spineless PM’s have ever done.
Mr
_______________________________
Doing what you say you're going to do isn't necessarily a virtue, Hitler, Amin, Mugabe, Mussolini, Stalin, Pol Pot etc etc prove that.
Yes it’s much better if people say one thing and do another.
Which is what Europe will do about Ukraine.
Or say they will do something but it’s just lies and they do nothing, like UK, like Europe "
_________________________________
...and the US having reneged on their security commitment to Ukraine 30 years ago (and the myriad of lies since spouted by Trump during his previous and current presidency) |
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"
Provide the security guarantees themselves. Why do you fear direct conflict with Russia? Is it it ok if it's some other country on the front line?
5,380 nuclear warheads is good reason to fear a direct confrontation with Russia. Especially without the USA.
Europe only has 515. UK with 225, France 290. We need the US 5,044 warheads for a nuclear umbrella.
Unless your willing to gamble Russia won't use them or they don't work..
How many warheads do you think it would need to wipe out Moscow."
Read a fantastic article and don’t shoot the messenger. Due to layout of cities in Moscow and its demograph… would only take 15 warhead to make Russia inoperable militarily, but bear in mind if Vlad knew they were coming…he’d probably release hell. |
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By *eacresteMan 2 days ago
hart village - Hartlepool |
"Serious question.
Realistically can you see Trump lasting the term?
I'm not talking bumped off I mean pushed out, that said I saw a news report the other day talking to regular Americans and they seemed to love him.
The majority of Americans want a swift end to the war.
They voted for Trump.
Trump is doing what he said he would.
Love him or hate him Trump does what he says he’s going to do! That’s a lot more than previous presidents and our spineless PM’s have ever done.
Mr
_______________________________
Doing what you say you're going to do isn't necessarily a virtue, Hitler, Amin, Mugabe, Mussolini, Stalin, Pol Pot etc etc prove that.
Yes it’s much better if people say one thing and do another.
Which is what Europe will do about Ukraine.
Or say they will do something but it’s just lies and they do nothing, like UK, like Europe
_________________________________
...and the US having reneged on their security commitment to Ukraine 30 years ago (and the myriad of lies since spouted by Trump during his previous and current presidency)"
Deals also only last for the length of time a potus in office too. |
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"
Provide the security guarantees themselves. Why do you fear direct conflict with Russia? Is it it ok if it's some other country on the front line?
5,380 nuclear warheads is good reason to fear a direct confrontation with Russia. Especially without the USA.
Europe only has 515. UK with 225, France 290. We need the US 5,044 warheads for a nuclear umbrella.
Unless your willing to gamble Russia won't use them or they don't work..
How many warheads do you think it would need to wipe out Moscow.
Read a fantastic article and don’t shoot the messenger. Due to layout of cities in Moscow and its demograph… would only take 15 warhead to make Russia inoperable militarily, but bear in mind if Vlad knew they were coming…he’d probably release hell."
I don’t think Europe are thinking about first strike. |
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You can go on about how inappropriate Trump & Vance were but Zelenskyy should have kept his grievances behind closed doors imo this avoiding the televised car crash.
As for what Trump seems to be proposing, if you put aside the silly claims he is a Russian agent, what he is proposing seems a better idea than what Biden was doing.
US gets its money back for supporting Ukraine.
US workers in Ukraine act as a deterrent against further Russian aggression.
There is an end to the killing.
Under Biden, it would be incessant war & the US Military Industrial Complex filling its boots (yet again)
|
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"You can go on about how inappropriate Trump & Vance were but Zelenskyy should have kept his grievances behind closed doors imo this avoiding the televised car crash.
"
_____________________________________
The grievances we're initiated publicly by Trump and Vance...what does Hunter Biden, Zalenskyy's appearance in Pennsylvania and him not wearing a suit have to do with Putin's illegal invasion of a sovereign country and killing thousands of people? Trump gets aerated by poor Mexicans crossing the southern border! |
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"My guess being Putin was pissed at NATO expanding into Russia border snd also want the crimean peninsula for blaçk sea access
Not perfect but may end the killing
"
This is what doesn't make sense with apparent flip Russia has made in being OK with 'The West' being on it's boarder. It's been hand over fist against Europe, EU, US, UK, NATO but now Russia's agreeable the US having the land - empowering an economy when they could keep it themselves .. it doesn't make sense.
It's not the 'Trump threat', as Canada and Mexico essentially coughed at his tariffs. It's obvious they invaded for materiels and resources but underestimated the response, so why give them up, what is Russia being offered.
|
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"
This is what doesn't make sense with apparent flip Russia has made in being OK with 'The West' being on it's boarder. It's been hand over fist against Europe, EU, US, UK, NATO but now Russia's agreeable the US having the land - empowering an economy when they could keep it themselves .. it doesn't make sense.
It's not the 'Trump threat', as Canada and Mexico essentially coughed at his tariffs. It's obvious they invaded for materiels and resources but underestimated the response, so why give them up, what is Russia being offered.
"
As Putin said though, Russia already has an abundance of natural resources. Looking at their huge landmass, it’s hard not to agree with him really |
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so it's evident that ukraine must give up all and any assets that would finance the rebuilding of the country after hostilities have ended, remaining destitute and plundered vassel to the Russian/American allience for generations to come according to the trump/putin arselickers... i wonder how ukrainians feel about that prospect? |
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"so it's evident that ukraine must give up all and any assets that would finance the rebuilding of the country after hostilities have ended, remaining destitute and plundered vassel to the Russian/American allience for generations to come according to the trump/putin arselickers... i wonder how ukrainians feel about that prospect? "
You really think The West wouldn’t have wanted their slice of the rebuilding pie anyway if we went down the Biden route? Yeah riiiiight. |
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"so it's evident that ukraine must give up all and any assets that would finance the rebuilding of the country after hostilities have ended, remaining destitute and plundered vassel to the Russian/American allience for generations to come according to the trump/putin arselickers... i wonder how ukrainians feel about that prospect?
You really think The West wouldn’t have wanted their slice of the rebuilding pie anyway if we went down the Biden route? Yeah riiiiight."
the west 🤣🤣 |
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"
the west 🤣🤣"
Yeah that’s right The West.
The West who berate Putin for landgrabbing, but allow Israel to do the same.
The West who fight for freedom & democracy whilst touting their arse to authoritarian China for trade deals.
|
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"
the west 🤣🤣
Yeah that’s right The West.
The West who berate Putin for landgrabbing, but allow Israel to do the same.
The West who fight for freedom & democracy whilst touting their arse to authoritarian China for trade deals.
"
🤣🤣🤣 |
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"
This is what doesn't make sense with apparent flip Russia has made in being OK with 'The West' being on it's boarder. It's been hand over fist against Europe, EU, US, UK, NATO but now Russia's agreeable the US having the land - empowering an economy when they could keep it themselves .. it doesn't make sense.
It's not the 'Trump threat', as Canada and Mexico essentially coughed at his tariffs. It's obvious they invaded for materiels and resources but underestimated the response, so why give them up, what is Russia being offered.
As Putin said though, Russia already has an abundance of natural resources. Looking at their huge landmass, it’s hard not to agree with him really"
In the mean time Russia is now open to the US mining those same resources, so Putin is both OK with US/Ukraine and open with US/Russia ... that script doesn't make sense. |
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"Tell me how Zelenskyy rising to the bait has helped the Ukrainian cause exactly?"
If someone has an agenda, the outcome is only ever going to be one way. It so happens what everyone saw was on live TV.
Trump/Reps have wanted excuse to escape Ukraine .. they'd have made excuse due to the deficit or the non signing of the agreement. That is not how allies work, it's not how negotiations work, it's not how national security interests work.. bait or not the US wanted things on their terms or out |
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By *otMe66Man 2 days ago
Terra Firma |
"My guess being Putin was pissed at NATO expanding into Russia border snd also want the crimean peninsula for blaçk sea access
Not perfect but may end the killing
This is what doesn't make sense with apparent flip Russia has made in being OK with 'The West' being on it's boarder. It's been hand over fist against Europe, EU, US, UK, NATO but now Russia's agreeable the US having the land - empowering an economy when they could keep it themselves .. it doesn't make sense.
It's not the 'Trump threat', as Canada and Mexico essentially coughed at his tariffs. It's obvious they invaded for materiels and resources but underestimated the response, so why give them up, what is Russia being offered.
"
I mentioned this to you yesterday.
If Russia give the US access to the minerals on the land it has taken from Ukraine, it keeps the US out of Ukrainian territory, which removes the problem of clashing with the US should Russia decide to advance further into Ukraine.
Zelensky really needs to get his head in the game. |
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By *eacresteMan 2 days ago
hart village - Hartlepool |
"My guess being Putin was pissed at NATO expanding into Russia border snd also want the crimean peninsula for blaçk sea access
Not perfect but may end the killing
This is what doesn't make sense with apparent flip Russia has made in being OK with 'The West' being on it's boarder. It's been hand over fist against Europe, EU, US, UK, NATO but now Russia's agreeable the US having the land - empowering an economy when they could keep it themselves .. it doesn't make sense.
It's not the 'Trump threat', as Canada and Mexico essentially coughed at his tariffs. It's obvious they invaded for materiels and resources but underestimated the response, so why give them up, what is Russia being offered.
"
Russia would get a chance to save face after an embarrassing invasion that's failed.
Ukraine gets to hold onto territory not lost if they agree to loosing the Crimea peninsula
Ukraine agrees to not join NATO in return
A new alliance is created between European countries with Ukraine in it.
Not ideal but possibly will be an alternative to Russia ukrane war of attriciion
Or should zelenski hold an election/referendum on accepting trump's offer and even resign as a reset with trump with a new leader for the good of Ukraine?
|
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"My guess being Putin was pissed at NATO expanding into Russia border snd also want the crimean peninsula for blaçk sea access
Not perfect but may end the killing
This is what doesn't make sense with apparent flip Russia has made in being OK with 'The West' being on it's boarder. It's been hand over fist against Europe, EU, US, UK, NATO but now Russia's agreeable the US having the land - empowering an economy when they could keep it themselves .. it doesn't make sense.
It's not the 'Trump threat', as Canada and Mexico essentially coughed at his tariffs. It's obvious they invaded for materiels and resources but underestimated the response, so why give them up, what is Russia being offered.
I mentioned this to you yesterday.
If Russia give the US access to the minerals on the land it has taken from Ukraine, it keeps the US out of Ukrainian territory, which removes the problem of clashing with the US should Russia decide to advance further into Ukraine.
Zelensky really needs to get his head in the game."
Ok..to understand this.. and to take what you say literally.
The US will be on Russian land (as Russia held elections and named them as extended Russian state territories).
The US (a present NATO member) will then be bordering Russia, defending it's interests (apparently). Something Russia has been very keen to avoid.
Russia as you say - will by all counts be free to advance the war past these territories as security guarantees are likely not included.
Am I missing something in what you say? |
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By *ronisMan 2 days ago
Edinburgh |
"Trump is a realist.
He knows Ukraine has lost and there is no way forward other than securing the best deal possible.
Otherwise the killing will carry on and the situation will just get worse for Ukraine.
Zelensky needs to step aside and let someone take over who can work with Trump to secure the peace."
Exactly. |
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If Trump won’t support European NATO members, they might leave and replace it with an alternative. I would welcome this if only to remove the US’s control of Europe's defence. That’s a pact the Ukraine could join without Putins objection. I’d like to see the Ukraine get its nazi factions in check first though. The danger is that the US will form close ties with Russia and see Europe suffer another Cold War alone. Ultimately we could do with access to Russian gas again. |
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By *otMe66Man 2 days ago
Terra Firma |
"My guess being Putin was pissed at NATO expanding into Russia border snd also want the crimean peninsula for blaçk sea access
Not perfect but may end the killing
This is what doesn't make sense with apparent flip Russia has made in being OK with 'The West' being on it's boarder. It's been hand over fist against Europe, EU, US, UK, NATO but now Russia's agreeable the US having the land - empowering an economy when they could keep it themselves .. it doesn't make sense.
It's not the 'Trump threat', as Canada and Mexico essentially coughed at his tariffs. It's obvious they invaded for materiels and resources but underestimated the response, so why give them up, what is Russia being offered.
I mentioned this to you yesterday.
If Russia give the US access to the minerals on the land it has taken from Ukraine, it keeps the US out of Ukrainian territory, which removes the problem of clashing with the US should Russia decide to advance further into Ukraine.
Zelensky really needs to get his head in the game.
Ok..to understand this.. and to take what you say literally.
The US will be on Russian land (as Russia held elections and named them as extended Russian state territories).
The US (a present NATO member) will then be bordering Russia, defending it's interests (apparently). Something Russia has been very keen to avoid.
Russia as you say - will by all counts be free to advance the war past these territories as security guarantees are likely not included.
Am I missing something in what you say?"
the fine detail is missing, in terms of the land being Ukrainian or Russian. Will the Russians hand back that part of the land, or would it remain disputed which would keep the barrier to NATO in place for Ukraine.
However this play out, it will be in Russia's favour. |
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By *ronisMan 2 days ago
Edinburgh |
"time to stop aukus now that potus has shown himself to be untrustworthy pig and we squander billions on another pointless american vanity project .... the money is better spent elsewhere "
Such as where? |
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"time to stop aukus now that potus has shown himself to be untrustworthy pig and we squander billions on another pointless american vanity project .... the money is better spent elsewhere
Such as where?"
wales |
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"time to stop aukus now that potus has shown himself to be untrustworthy pig and we squander billions on another pointless american vanity project .... the money is better spent elsewhere
Such as where?
wales "
or even a decent suit for leo that actually fits him properly |
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By *ronisMan 2 days ago
Edinburgh |
"time to stop aukus now that potus has shown himself to be untrustworthy pig and we squander billions on another pointless american vanity project .... the money is better spent elsewhere
Such as where?
wales
or even a decent suit for leo that actually fits him properly "
Who is Leo? |
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"time to stop aukus now that potus has shown himself to be untrustworthy pig and we squander billions on another pointless american vanity project .... the money is better spent elsewhere
Such as where?
wales "
We could do with the money though I'm sure they'll waste it on crap
They'll probably spend over 5 million changing half the roads back to 30 the twats |
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If there's one thing you can guarantee with any bloody government, whichever side the claim themselves to be, is they spend money like it's going out of fashion with little to show for it
Easy to spend someone (taxpayer) else's money frivolously |
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"I now understand why Trump has the ridiculous combover he does … he wants to hide the 666 tattooed on his head.
I guess on this occasion the Monks of Megiddo didn’t get through … worrying!
#omentrilogy "
Glad I'm not the only one thinking along those lines. |
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By *abioMan 2 days ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"time to stop aukus now that potus has shown himself to be untrustworthy pig and we squander billions on another pointless american vanity project .... the money is better spent elsewhere "
Not just aukus.. you are probably looking at five eyes as well…
From an intelligence standpoint. If you now think the us are compromised, why are you going to share anything! How did what happen make the us safer?
|
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"Seems a trade deal wrapped up as peace deal when there's no security
One thing that has come out of the Oval Office blow up is there's a lot more attention on it. "
demanding mineral assets for nothing in return isn't much of a trade deal tbf. |
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By *otMe66Man 2 days ago
Terra Firma |
"Seems a trade deal wrapped up as peace deal when there's no security
One thing that has come out of the Oval Office blow up is there's a lot more attention on it.
demanding mineral assets for nothing in return isn't much of a trade deal tbf."
Zelensky offered the mineral deal, nobody demanded it. |
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By *otMe66Man 2 days ago
Terra Firma |
"And where is China in all this?
Just sitting back, waiting to pick up all the pieces, and confirm that they are dominant power in the world.
"
Holding 34% of the world’s rare minerals and processing 90% of them.
|
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"And where is China in all this?
Just sitting back, waiting to pick up all the pieces, and confirm that they are dominant power in the world.
Holding 34% of the world’s rare minerals and processing 90% of them.
"
Fair point.
All they need to do is offer some security guarantees to Ukraine, and they knock both the US and Russia off their perch’s |
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"Trump and Vance premeditated and planned this …. they are no better than school yard bullies.
I despair that this is what the USA has become, and he is their mouthpiece and their ultimate representative… disgusting and disgusted with the USA.
Putin is laughing his socks off in Kremlin tonight.
R xx"
that was a set up,, |
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"
Provide the security guarantees themselves. Why do you fear direct conflict with Russia? Is it it ok if it's some other country on the front line?
5,380 nuclear warheads is good reason to fear a direct confrontation with Russia. Especially without the USA.
Europe only has 515. UK with 225, France 290. We need the US 5,044 warheads for a nuclear umbrella.
Unless your willing to gamble Russia won't use them or they don't work..
"
How many do you think it takes? |
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By *otMe66Man 1 day ago
Terra Firma |
"And where is China in all this?
Just sitting back, waiting to pick up all the pieces, and confirm that they are dominant power in the world.
Holding 34% of the world’s rare minerals and processing 90% of them.
Fair point.
All they need to do is offer some security guarantees to Ukraine, and they knock both the US and Russia off their perch’s"
That could be a reality in the future, and the reason Trump is all eyes on China. |
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"And where is China in all this?
Just sitting back, waiting to pick up all the pieces, and confirm that they are dominant power in the world.
Holding 34% of the world’s rare minerals and processing 90% of them.
Fair point.
All they need to do is offer some security guarantees to Ukraine, and they knock both the US and Russia off their perch’s
That could be a reality in the future, and the reason Trump is all eyes on China."
China could destroy the US on any day of their choosing. They own so many US bonds now that they could just sell the lot on one day and the economy would collapse and the US knows it. Some of their people would suffer but it would be trading a knight for check mate. Alternatively they could align with Russia more closely and become the worlds greatest economic power. This is already happening with BRICS. Then by keeping their US bonds they are keeping the US on a leash. |
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By *otMe66Man 1 day ago
Terra Firma |
"And where is China in all this?
Just sitting back, waiting to pick up all the pieces, and confirm that they are dominant power in the world.
Holding 34% of the world’s rare minerals and processing 90% of them.
Fair point.
All they need to do is offer some security guarantees to Ukraine, and they knock both the US and Russia off their perch’s
That could be a reality in the future, and the reason Trump is all eyes on China.
China could destroy the US on any day of their choosing. They own so many US bonds now that they could just sell the lot on one day and the economy would collapse and the US knows it. Some of their people would suffer but it would be trading a knight for check mate. Alternatively they could align with Russia more closely and become the worlds greatest economic power. This is already happening with BRICS. Then by keeping their US bonds they are keeping the US on a leash."
They are a huge influence and force as you mention. The BRI is an overwhelming undertaking that is allowing China to have a Financial influence around the globe, whilst having hundreds of countries in debt to them.
When I consider how we struggle to build HS2 and then see the size of BRI it is just bind blowing. |
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By *abioMan 1 day ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"And where is China in all this?
Just sitting back, waiting to pick up all the pieces, and confirm that they are dominant power in the world.
"
Probably seeing what’s happening and picking their moment to invade Taiwan
|
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"And where is China in all this?
Just sitting back, waiting to pick up all the pieces, and confirm that they are dominant power in the world.
Probably seeing what’s happening and picking their moment to invade Taiwan
"
I’m sure the UK can take that on as well. |
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By *d4ugirlsMan 19 hours ago
Green Cove Springs |
"Trump and Vance are business people who were voted in after promising to account for every American dollar. American taxpayers currently have given 350 billion to Ukraine that is 80 times more than Europe. Was I the only who heard Trump say once Europe go in for 50% I am ok with it? The first thing out of Zelenski's mouth should have been " where do I sign". "
Glad that there are some objective people on here. Tired of hearing the Bullshit Broadcasting Clown regurgitators! |
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"Trump and Vance are business people who were voted in after promising to account for every American dollar. American taxpayers currently have given 350 billion to Ukraine that is 80 times more than Europe. Was I the only who heard Trump say once Europe go in for 50% I am ok with it? The first thing out of Zelenski's mouth should have been " where do I sign".
Glad that there are some objective people on here. Tired of hearing the Bullshit Broadcasting Clown regurgitators!"
Apparently the $350 billion is trump BS. Since 2022 the Ukrain has received $383 from all sources. The US supplied about a third of that figure. Source FullFact |
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It's easy to jump on Trumps back and/or criticise Zelensky and we all pretty much know what Putin is (insert expletive of choice)
The way I see it there are 4 options here.
1. Let Putin win by stopping all funding to Ukraine. It will be all over in a month or two.
2. Defeat Putin by fully backing Ukraine. That would mean NATO boots on the ground and would probably end in WW3.
3. Chuck enough money at Ukraine to keep the war going indefinitely. That would keep it going for a few more years until Ukraine runs out of manpower and Putin would still be the winner.
4. Get around the negotiating table where both sides compromise. Yes it would almost certainly be a distasteful appeasement and Putin would use the time to re-group. But it would also buy Europe some time. Time that Europe needs to build up our defences and stop Putin if he tries it on again.
A lot of people criticised Chamberlain for his piece of paper. But that piece of paper bought us time then and we need it now.
If anyone has an option 5 I'm all ears. |
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"It's easy to jump on Trumps back and/or criticise Zelensky and we all pretty much know what Putin is (insert expletive of choice)
The way I see it there are 4 options here.
1. Let Putin win by stopping all funding to Ukraine. It will be all over in a month or two.
2. Defeat Putin by fully backing Ukraine. That would mean NATO boots on the ground and would probably end in WW3.
3. Chuck enough money at Ukraine to keep the war going indefinitely. That would keep it going for a few more years until Ukraine runs out of manpower and Putin would still be the winner.
4. Get around the negotiating table where both sides compromise. Yes it would almost certainly be a distasteful appeasement and Putin would use the time to re-group. But it would also buy Europe some time. Time that Europe needs to build up our defences and stop Putin if he tries it on again.
A lot of people criticised Chamberlain for his piece of paper. But that piece of paper bought us time then and we need it now.
If anyone has an option 5 I'm all ears."
Very good summary. |
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By *otMe66Man 5 hours ago
Terra Firma |
"It's easy to jump on Trumps back and/or criticise Zelensky and we all pretty much know what Putin is (insert expletive of choice)
The way I see it there are 4 options here.
1. Let Putin win by stopping all funding to Ukraine. It will be all over in a month or two.
2. Defeat Putin by fully backing Ukraine. That would mean NATO boots on the ground and would probably end in WW3.
3. Chuck enough money at Ukraine to keep the war going indefinitely. That would keep it going for a few more years until Ukraine runs out of manpower and Putin would still be the winner.
4. Get around the negotiating table where both sides compromise. Yes it would almost certainly be a distasteful appeasement and Putin would use the time to re-group. But it would also buy Europe some time. Time that Europe needs to build up our defences and stop Putin if he tries it on again.
A lot of people criticised Chamberlain for his piece of paper. But that piece of paper bought us time then and we need it now.
If anyone has an option 5 I'm all ears."
Option 5: Undermine Putin and Russia from within. Cyber attacks, destabilise comms and energy infrastructure, manufacturing, finance and blame the Chinese.
If they could blackout, cut off comms and internet even for a few hours a day but every day, it wouldn't take long for the people to turn. |
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"It's easy to jump on Trumps back and/or criticise Zelensky and we all pretty much know what Putin is (insert expletive of choice)
The way I see it there are 4 options here.
1. Let Putin win by stopping all funding to Ukraine. It will be all over in a month or two.
2. Defeat Putin by fully backing Ukraine. That would mean NATO boots on the ground and would probably end in WW3.
3. Chuck enough money at Ukraine to keep the war going indefinitely. That would keep it going for a few more years until Ukraine runs out of manpower and Putin would still be the winner.
4. Get around the negotiating table where both sides compromise. Yes it would almost certainly be a distasteful appeasement and Putin would use the time to re-group. But it would also buy Europe some time. Time that Europe needs to build up our defences and stop Putin if he tries it on again.
A lot of people criticised Chamberlain for his piece of paper. But that piece of paper bought us time then and we need it now.
If anyone has an option 5 I'm all ears."
It has to be along the lines of 4. Appalling that an aggressor can keep the spoils of war, but there we are. Europe needs to re-arm, but despite the PR shows of solidarity who will really step-up? Who are the 'willing', and more to the point, who are the 'unwilling' and why? It's too easy for small EU countries to duck their defence responsibilities under the guise of neutrality. Is it a key responsibility for the UK to defend Europe? We did just that in two world wars and where did it get us? We lost an empire and have been sliding into obscurity ever since. I'm not convinced it should be our sons (and daughters) slain on the anvil of yet another European war. |
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"It's easy to jump on Trumps back and/or criticise Zelensky and we all pretty much know what Putin is (insert expletive of choice)
The way I see it there are 4 options here.
1. Let Putin win by stopping all funding to Ukraine. It will be all over in a month or two.
2. Defeat Putin by fully backing Ukraine. That would mean NATO boots on the ground and would probably end in WW3.
3. Chuck enough money at Ukraine to keep the war going indefinitely. That would keep it going for a few more years until Ukraine runs out of manpower and Putin would still be the winner.
4. Get around the negotiating table where both sides compromise. Yes it would almost certainly be a distasteful appeasement and Putin would use the time to re-group. But it would also buy Europe some time. Time that Europe needs to build up our defences and stop Putin if he tries it on again.
A lot of people criticised Chamberlain for his piece of paper. But that piece of paper bought us time then and we need it now.
If anyone has an option 5 I'm all ears."
Hopefully there can be a prompt end to the war and killing
But whatever agreement is signed it’s future is meaningless
USA UK and others have already reneged on the 1994 Budapest memorandum. And whatever signed agreement is made next Putin will use it as arse paper. |
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