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USA votes with Russia, N Korea and China.
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"To find the story I searched Putin warns nato to stop massing on Russian boarders. The conversation from 2022." Which would be a point if Ukraine was anywhere near the point of actually joining NATO… but they were nowhere near close And even if they had not invaded, they would still have been nowhere near close now! So all Putin threats did was finally persuade Finland and Sweden to join…. | |||
"To find the story I searched Putin warns nato to stop massing on Russian boarders. The conversation from 2022." If you want the history go back to 2001, Bush - Putin relationship post 9/11. 2002: 7 countries on the Russian border invited to join NATO 2003: Bush invading Iraq, against the wishes of Putin 2004: NATO are now on the Russian border with the Baltics 2005: Putin is now saying the collapse of the Soviet Union was a catastrophe. 2007: Putin warns that Russia will not sit back if there is further NATO expansion 2008: Bush pushes for Georgia and Ukraine to become NATO members 2008: Russia invades Georgia And so on... It is very interesting to understand how the Bush - Putin relationship blossomed and then went sour. | |||
"To find the story I searched Putin warns nato to stop massing on Russian boarders. The conversation from 2022. Which would be a point if Ukraine was anywhere near the point of actually joining NATO… but they were nowhere near close And even if they had not invaded, they would still have been nowhere near close now! So all Putin threats did was finally persuade Finland and Sweden to join…. " The reason Ukraine did not join NATO earlier (2008) is because France and Germany blocked the membership fearing Russian retaliation | |||
"I think there are about 190 members of the UN. On the particular resolution you are presumably talking about, around 95 voted for, 18 against, and 65 abstained (roughly). It looks like “the world stage” is actually pretty divided about the issue, though clearly the balance was overall in favour. We know of course that the resolution won’t make a blind bit of difference. The West has a habit of assuming that the world consists of the US, Europe, and a few English speaking countries. It’s a pretty outdated and colonialist view. The world is changing and power balances shifting. This is something Trump understands perfectly well." Interesting point. Trump thinks the world consists of the USA and Russia; and maybe China. He also thinks that all reciprocal agreements between countries signed by the USA in the past, like the climate accord, NATO, the defence agreement with the Ukraine and the United States Constitution, are nothing and because he is C in C of a big army he can do what the fuck he likes. | |||
"To find the story I searched Putin warns nato to stop massing on Russian boarders. The conversation from 2022. Which would be a point if Ukraine was anywhere near the point of actually joining NATO… but they were nowhere near close And even if they had not invaded, they would still have been nowhere near close now! So all Putin threats did was finally persuade Finland and Sweden to join…. " I did not mention anything about Ukraine joining NATO as you already know a country in dispute over boarders cannot apply to join until said conflict is settled. I added the article because I knew someone would try and dispute this so I added the way I searched for the information. If you have read it, it states Putin had been warning Nato for decades, (I remember the news reports but I thought it was NATO troops, but now I know what he meant states on the Russian boarder joining NATO not troops on the ground, but in essence that is what it is I looked on a map and Sweden and Norway are on the Northern boarder with Russia. So yeah a direct threat if it were us, but not Russia strange that. But I agree Putin joining NATO only fast tracked what he feared. But now Trump is POTUS, there will be no more war, just like last term, seeking agreements with disgruntled countries to avoid conflict. | |||
"To find the story I searched Putin warns nato to stop massing on Russian boarders. The conversation from 2022. If you want the history go back to 2001, Bush - Putin relationship post 9/11. 2002: 7 countries on the Russian border invited to join NATO 2003: Bush invading Iraq, against the wishes of Putin 2004: NATO are now on the Russian border with the Baltics 2005: Putin is now saying the collapse of the Soviet Union was a catastrophe. 2007: Putin warns that Russia will not sit back if there is further NATO expansion 2008: Bush pushes for Georgia and Ukraine to become NATO members 2008: Russia invades Georgia And so on... It is very interesting to understand how the Bush - Putin relationship blossomed and then went sour. " Thank you. | |||
"To find the story I searched Putin warns nato to stop massing on Russian boarders. The conversation from 2022. Which would be a point if Ukraine was anywhere near the point of actually joining NATO… but they were nowhere near close And even if they had not invaded, they would still have been nowhere near close now! So all Putin threats did was finally persuade Finland and Sweden to join…. The reason Ukraine did not join NATO earlier (2008) is because France and Germany blocked the membership fearing Russian retaliation " Thank you | |||
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"It all seems so simple if you blot out Russian propaganda. The facts are as follows. In 1994, Ukraine agreed to transfer the nuclear weapons on their land to Russia for dismantling and became a party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons. In exchange for this they received economic compensation and assurances from Russia, the United States and United Kingdom to respect the Ukrainian independence and sovereignty in the existing borders. Not withstanding this agreement Russia continued to impose control on the Ukraine via puppet presidents. However, the Ukrainian people saw a better future in Europe so elected a non-puppet President. It then became even clearer that, having seen Russia invade Georgia and Chechnya and had them annex Crimea that the grain and mineral rich Donbas area of their country was next on Russia's list. For years Russia had sponsored terroism and civil unrest in the Donbas to try and find an excuse to invade. The Ukranian government thus felt very concerened that Russia was looking for an excuse to invade. So Russia's real reason for not wanting Ukraine in NATO was it prevented them from taking Ukrainian land at will and not because it was a threat to Russia. When Trump failed to become the 46 president and left office in 2021 Putin realised his man in America was no longer in power, so he had to act fast before Ukraine fell under the protection of NATO. As a consequence he invaded knowing NATO would not let Ukraine join whilst they were still at war. Europe, UK and the USA under Biden, honoured the 1994 agreement to protect the Sovereignty of Ukraine and supported them when Russia invaded in 2022. It must have been a massive relief to Putin to have his man back in power in 2025. Now Trump seeks, under the smoke screen of stopping the killing, to do mineral deals with Russia on the areas of Ukraine they have already annexed. At the same time, he seeks to impose repayment terms for support given to Ukraine on their remaining mineral stocks. Not a word has been spoken about reparations payable from Russia to Ukraine. So, why doesn't Trump want Ukraine in NATO? Because Russia has not finished taking their land yet and Trump via his relationship with Putin aims to personally benefit. Q.E.D." Putin consistently warning NATO is a fact, just look at his invasion record. If Russia continues to take land after a peace deal then they are no better than a country I could mention but this thread is not about that country. Just remember USA had many banana republics, they made illegal incursions into sovereign states, and placed puppets in charge of countries the USA wanted to control, what is good for the Goose is good for the Ganda. | |||
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"Playing devil's advocate. Perhaps the logic is: Is it better to anger Ukraine and appease Russia and not provoke the bear anymore. On a global scale it's better to keep Russia happy and piss off Ukraine. I'm not fan of Trump but will we be saying in years to come he saved us from all out war by making a very difficult decision. I can honestly think that this is the only reason he's done what he's done, are we much closer to WW3 than we know. The consequences of this???? God only knows " And let's be honest the situation hasn't improved Russia were never going to back down and the approach that's been in place hasn't been working. | |||
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"It all seems so simple if you blot out Russian propaganda. The facts are as follows. In 1994, Ukraine agreed to transfer the nuclear weapons on their land to Russia for dismantling and became a party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons. In exchange for this they received economic compensation and assurances from Russia, the United States and United Kingdom to respect the Ukrainian independence and sovereignty in the existing borders. Not withstanding this agreement Russia continued to impose control on the Ukraine via puppet presidents. However, the Ukrainian people saw a better future in Europe so elected a non-puppet President. It then became even clearer that, having seen Russia invade Georgia and Chechnya and had them annex Crimea that the grain and mineral rich Donbas area of their country was next on Russia's list. For years Russia had sponsored terroism and civil unrest in the Donbas to try and find an excuse to invade. The Ukranian government thus felt very concerened that Russia was looking for an excuse to invade. So Russia's real reason for not wanting Ukraine in NATO was it prevented them from taking Ukrainian land at will and not because it was a threat to Russia. When Trump failed to become the 46 president and left office in 2021 Putin realised his man in America was no longer in power, so he had to act fast before Ukraine fell under the protection of NATO. As a consequence he invaded knowing NATO would not let Ukraine join whilst they were still at war. Europe, UK and the USA under Biden, honoured the 1994 agreement to protect the Sovereignty of Ukraine and supported them when Russia invaded in 2022. It must have been a massive relief to Putin to have his man back in power in 2025. Now Trump seeks, under the smoke screen of stopping the killing, to do mineral deals with Russia on the areas of Ukraine they have already annexed. At the same time, he seeks to impose repayment terms for support given to Ukraine on their remaining mineral stocks. Not a word has been spoken about reparations payable from Russia to Ukraine. So, why doesn't Trump want Ukraine in NATO? Because Russia has not finished taking their land yet and Trump via his relationship with Putin aims to personally benefit. Q.E.D." I can see these elements you’ve posted in Wikipedia. However, what isn’t explicitly mentioned is the collapse of the Soviet Union and Ukraine’s breakaway, which was the real trigger for the agreements being referenced above not just the Minsk agreements, but also the Budapest Memorandum that guaranteed Ukraine’s sovereignty. That was under Gorbachev, but if you look at the timeline I provided, you will see where Putin and Bush entered the scene and how a series of geopolitical moves, NATO expansion, and Russian responses have given us the war in Ukraine today. That leads to the bigger questions that I have no answer for 1) Was Bush convinced that Putin planned to expand Russia back to Soviet era borders, hence the NATO push? 2) Or did Bush underestimate Putin, believing he wasn’t a real threat? The turning point was clearly 2008, Russia’s invasion of Georgia, followed by France and Germany blocking Ukraine’s NATO membership. That was the moment Putin realised military force worked, and Europe had no stomach for conflict. From that moment on, Russia escalated, leading to Crimea in 2014 and a full scale invasion of Ukraine in 2022. These events that started in 2001-2008 are still playing out today, and whether it was Bush pushing for NATO expansion or Putin wanting to rebuild the USSR, the issue that still remains is Europe were not up for conflict, maybe that is changing now?? Trump's focus is on China, that should be more worrying than this... | |||
"Playing devil's advocate. Perhaps the logic is: Is it better to anger Ukraine and appease Russia and not provoke the bear anymore. On a global scale it's better to keep Russia happy and piss off Ukraine. I'm not fan of Trump but will we be saying in years to come he saved us from all out war by making a very difficult decision. I can honestly think that this is the only reason he's done what he's done, are we much closer to WW3 than we know. The consequences of this???? God only knows And let's be honest the situation hasn't improved Russia were never going to back down and the approach that's been in place hasn't been working." They did not need to back down, there was nothing stopping them, Ukraine is a front door in Putin's eyes with no lock on it. Going back to your point on Trump, I think he has changed Europe and maybe it will be proven to be one of the best outcomes possible. The EU is a trading bloc, but will this push it towards becoming a political and military entity? If so, it could mean the end of the EU as just an economic alliance and ironically, it might undo Brexit in the long run 
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"To find the story I searched Putin warns nato to stop massing on Russian boarders. The conversation from 2022. Which would be a point if Ukraine was anywhere near the point of actually joining NATO… but they were nowhere near close And even if they had not invaded, they would still have been nowhere near close now! So all Putin threats did was finally persuade Finland and Sweden to join…. The reason Ukraine did not join NATO earlier (2008) is because France and Germany blocked the membership fearing Russian retaliation " But they could not have joined at this present time because of the dispute in the Donbas … until that is resolved, Ukrainian members was off the table regardless of how Putin wanted to frame it… | |||
"When was the last time NATO invaded Russia?" It’s not about NATO invading Russia it’s about NATO being on Russia’s border, it cuts off any expansion Putin may have or that of any future Russian leader. That’s the key issue from Russia’s perspective. European NATO members could have closed the door on this years ago but lost their nerve. | |||
"To find the story I searched Putin warns nato to stop massing on Russian boarders. The conversation from 2022. Which would be a point if Ukraine was anywhere near the point of actually joining NATO… but they were nowhere near close And even if they had not invaded, they would still have been nowhere near close now! So all Putin threats did was finally persuade Finland and Sweden to join…. The reason Ukraine did not join NATO earlier (2008) is because France and Germany blocked the membership fearing Russian retaliation But they could not have joined at this present time because of the dispute in the Donbas … until that is resolved, Ukrainian members was off the table regardless of how Putin wanted to frame it…" There was no Donbas dispute in 2008 when France and Germany blocked Ukraine's membership to NATO. That would have been 2014 | |||
"When was the last time NATO invaded Russia? It’s not about NATO invading Russia it’s about NATO being on Russia’s border, it cuts off any expansion Putin may have or that of any future Russian leader. That’s the key issue from Russia’s perspective. European NATO members could have closed the door on this years ago but lost their nerve. " Russia has been meddling for decades.. Georgia, for example! Moldova, Romania… If Putin has “expansionist tendencies” that is not NATO’s fault… In fact when he keeps saying that Ukraine should not exist, and talks about a greater Russia including the Baltic states, then no wonder they want to join NATO for their own self interest and democracy | |||
"To find the story I searched Putin warns nato to stop massing on Russian boarders. The conversation from 2022. Which would be a point if Ukraine was anywhere near the point of actually joining NATO… but they were nowhere near close And even if they had not invaded, they would still have been nowhere near close now! So all Putin threats did was finally persuade Finland and Sweden to join…. The reason Ukraine did not join NATO earlier (2008) is because France and Germany blocked the membership fearing Russian retaliation But they could not have joined at this present time because of the dispute in the Donbas … until that is resolved, Ukrainian members was off the table regardless of how Putin wanted to frame it… There was no Donbas dispute in 2008 when France and Germany blocked Ukraine's membership to NATO. That would have been 2014" Which is why they would not have been allowed to join NOW! So why is Putin using that as the reason for the “special military operation “ There was no immediate threat of Ukraine being admitted into NATO at the time they invaded | |||
"To find the story I searched Putin warns nato to stop massing on Russian boarders. The conversation from 2022. Which would be a point if Ukraine was anywhere near the point of actually joining NATO… but they were nowhere near close And even if they had not invaded, they would still have been nowhere near close now! So all Putin threats did was finally persuade Finland and Sweden to join…. The reason Ukraine did not join NATO earlier (2008) is because France and Germany blocked the membership fearing Russian retaliation But they could not have joined at this present time because of the dispute in the Donbas … until that is resolved, Ukrainian members was off the table regardless of how Putin wanted to frame it… There was no Donbas dispute in 2008 when France and Germany blocked Ukraine's membership to NATO. That would have been 2014 Which is why they would not have been allowed to join NOW! So why is Putin using that as the reason for the “special military operation “ There was no immediate threat of Ukraine being admitted into NATO at the time they invaded " Ah got you 
It is of course an excuse, there is no denying that but we gave him the card to play.
As I mentioned previously in a post, I'm not sure if Bush and the US knew Putin had ambitions to expand Russia back to the USSR borders and pushed the NATO wall in 2004 - 2008 or if Putin reacted to that.
Either way he doesn't want hemming in, which is what Ukraine joining Nato would do. | |||
"It all seems so simple if you blot out Russian propaganda. The facts are as follows. In 1994, Ukraine agreed to transfer the nuclear weapons on their land to Russia for dismantling and became a party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons. In exchange for this they received economic compensation and assurances from Russia, the United States and United Kingdom to respect the Ukrainian independence and sovereignty in the existing borders. Not withstanding this agreement Russia continued to impose control on the Ukraine via puppet presidents. However, the Ukrainian people saw a better future in Europe so elected a non-puppet President. It then became even clearer that, having seen Russia invade Georgia and Chechnya and had them annex Crimea that the grain and mineral rich Donbas area of their country was next on Russia's list. For years Russia had sponsored terroism and civil unrest in the Donbas to try and find an excuse to invade. The Ukranian government thus felt very concerened that Russia was looking for an excuse to invade. So Russia's real reason for not wanting Ukraine in NATO was it prevented them from taking Ukrainian land at will and not because it was a threat to Russia. When Trump failed to become the 46 president and left office in 2021 Putin realised his man in America was no longer in power, so he had to act fast before Ukraine fell under the protection of NATO. As a consequence he invaded knowing NATO would not let Ukraine join whilst they were still at war. Europe, UK and the USA under Biden, honoured the 1994 agreement to protect the Sovereignty of Ukraine and supported them when Russia invaded in 2022. It must have been a massive relief to Putin to have his man back in power in 2025. Now Trump seeks, under the smoke screen of stopping the killing, to do mineral deals with Russia on the areas of Ukraine they have already annexed. At the same time, he seeks to impose repayment terms for support given to Ukraine on their remaining mineral stocks. Not a word has been spoken about reparations payable from Russia to Ukraine. So, why doesn't Trump want Ukraine in NATO? Because Russia has not finished taking their land yet and Trump via his relationship with Putin aims to personally benefit. Q.E.D. I can see these elements you’ve posted in Wikipedia. However, what isn’t explicitly mentioned is the collapse of the Soviet Union and Ukraine’s breakaway, which was the real trigger for the agreements being referenced above not just the Minsk agreements, but also the Budapest Memorandum that guaranteed Ukraine’s sovereignty. That was under Gorbachev, but if you look at the timeline I provided, you will see where Putin and Bush entered the scene and how a series of geopolitical moves, NATO expansion, and Russian responses have given us the war in Ukraine today. That leads to the bigger questions that I have no answer for 1) Was Bush convinced that Putin planned to expand Russia back to Soviet era borders, hence the NATO push? 2) Or did Bush underestimate Putin, believing he wasn’t a real threat? The turning point was clearly 2008, Russia’s invasion of Georgia, followed by France and Germany blocking Ukraine’s NATO membership. That was the moment Putin realised military force worked, and Europe had no stomach for conflict. From that moment on, Russia escalated, leading to Crimea in 2014 and a full scale invasion of Ukraine in 2022. These events that started in 2001-2008 are still playing out today, and whether it was Bush pushing for NATO expansion or Putin wanting to rebuild the USSR, the issue that still remains is Europe were not up for conflict, maybe that is changing now?? Trump's focus is on China, that should be more worrying than this..." I will agree there is always more, you can write a book about the events leading up to today, so some form of shorthand is needed. In the end it is the intent and actions of a selfish, transactional, narcissist who is destroying the legacy of the USA as the leader of the free world for his own personal gain. This is a legacy that its country folk fought and died for. Such a sad end to a great country. | |||
"Playing devil's advocate. Perhaps the logic is: Is it better to anger Ukraine and appease Russia and not provoke the bear anymore. On a global scale it's better to keep Russia happy and piss off Ukraine. I'm not fan of Trump but will we be saying in years to come he saved us from all out war by making a very difficult decision. I can honestly think that this is the only reason he's done what he's done, are we much closer to WW3 than we know. The consequences of this???? God only knows And let's be honest the situation hasn't improved Russia were never going to back down and the approach that's been in place hasn't been working." In a way it has worked for Biden he sold arms and then sold more, now Trump is in he brokers a peace deal and gets minerals and other precious metals for the USA to profit, (minus the old skim off the top) from. So no more deaths, no more war. Who can argue with that, maybe we can feel safer with less conflict and making less enemies to threaten us. Remember the changing narrative was because of this war all prices will go up, utilities will go up your mobile contract up, food up, everything has gone up and will never be the same again ever. Remember you can't forget as it is happening now. | |||
"Playing devil's advocate. Perhaps the logic is: Is it better to anger Ukraine and appease Russia and not provoke the bear anymore. On a global scale it's better to keep Russia happy and piss off Ukraine. I'm not fan of Trump but will we be saying in years to come he saved us from all out war by making a very difficult decision. I can honestly think that this is the only reason he's done what he's done, are we much closer to WW3 than we know. The consequences of this???? God only knows And let's be honest the situation hasn't improved Russia were never going to back down and the approach that's been in place hasn't been working. In a way it has worked for Biden he sold arms and then sold more, now Trump is in he brokers a peace deal and gets minerals and other precious metals for the USA to profit, (minus the old skim off the top) from. So no more deaths, no more war. Who can argue with that, maybe we can feel safer with less conflict and making less enemies to threaten us. Remember the changing narrative was because of this war all prices will go up, utilities will go up your mobile contract up, food up, everything has gone up and will never be the same again ever. Remember you can't forget as it is happening now." "No more deaths - no more war" does not require Donald Trump to be bribed. It only requires Russia to stop bombing and attacking Ukraine and go back to Russia. If you were Ukranian and had lost tens of thousands of your country folk fighting for your freedom against an invader, would you feel it fair to pay a third party, 20% to 30% of all the minerals in your country, for them to let the invader off scott free with what they had already taken? | |||
"Playing devil's advocate. Perhaps the logic is: Is it better to anger Ukraine and appease Russia and not provoke the bear anymore. On a global scale it's better to keep Russia happy and piss off Ukraine. I'm not fan of Trump but will we be saying in years to come he saved us from all out war by making a very difficult decision. I can honestly think that this is the only reason he's done what he's done, are we much closer to WW3 than we know. The consequences of this???? God only knows And let's be honest the situation hasn't improved Russia were never going to back down and the approach that's been in place hasn't been working. In a way it has worked for Biden he sold arms and then sold more, now Trump is in he brokers a peace deal and gets minerals and other precious metals for the USA to profit, (minus the old skim off the top) from. So no more deaths, no more war. Who can argue with that, maybe we can feel safer with less conflict and making less enemies to threaten us. Remember the changing narrative was because of this war all prices will go up, utilities will go up your mobile contract up, food up, everything has gone up and will never be the same again ever. Remember you can't forget as it is happening now. "No more deaths - no more war" does not require Donald Trump to be bribed. It only requires Russia to stop bombing and attacking Ukraine and go back to Russia. If you were Ukranian and had lost tens of thousands of your country folk fighting for your freedom against an invader, would you feel it fair to pay a third party, 20% to 30% of all the minerals in your country, for them to let the invader off scott free with what they had already taken?" This is the kicker, Zelensky is continuously fighting the war on credit. This is not unique or new, it happens in every war but 3 years of serious arms deals has cost Ukraine dearly. It wouldn't matter who was president, they will want their money back, but Zelensky doesn't have it. The minerals are good way out of debt and it was Zelensky's idea to repay and continue funding the war via these resources, not Trump's. | |||
"Playing devil's advocate. Perhaps the logic is: Is it better to anger Ukraine and appease Russia and not provoke the bear anymore. On a global scale it's better to keep Russia happy and piss off Ukraine. I'm not fan of Trump but will we be saying in years to come he saved us from all out war by making a very difficult decision. I can honestly think that this is the only reason he's done what he's done, are we much closer to WW3 than we know. The consequences of this???? God only knows And let's be honest the situation hasn't improved Russia were never going to back down and the approach that's been in place hasn't been working. In a way it has worked for Biden he sold arms and then sold more, now Trump is in he brokers a peace deal and gets minerals and other precious metals for the USA to profit, (minus the old skim off the top) from. So no more deaths, no more war. Who can argue with that, maybe we can feel safer with less conflict and making less enemies to threaten us. Remember the changing narrative was because of this war all prices will go up, utilities will go up your mobile contract up, food up, everything has gone up and will never be the same again ever. Remember you can't forget as it is happening now. "No more deaths - no more war" does not require Donald Trump to be bribed. It only requires Russia to stop bombing and attacking Ukraine and go back to Russia. If you were Ukranian and had lost tens of thousands of your country folk fighting for your freedom against an invader, would you feel it fair to pay a third party, 20% to 30% of all the minerals in your country, for them to let the invader off scott free with what they had already taken?" MMMMMM but he did it didn't he or is planning to. First he shames Europe. sorts out Gaza, and now Ukraine. At Trumps heart he is an isolationist, MAGA whatever, his bringing in the cash for the USA. Only Americans can skim off the top Europe is no longer invited it seems, not even to peace talks that's a big snub. He can pay or keep on fighting without the Americans money cos Trump is not giving out anymore unless it is in a deal which will enrich America. Starmer has made a speech earlier, which he explains the tough choices (head in hands) to come and ....... I am not spouting this political bullshite anymore were Europe narrative is concerned but I said this morning we will all be paying more and we are. | |||
"At the UN the USA has joined with Russia, N Korea and Belarus in refusing to state Russia were the aggressors in the Ukraine war. Considering we all sat in our armchairs and watched them invade Ukraine on TV I am deeply saddened at this abandonment of honour and principal by a once great country. If Trump really wanted to make America great again he is doing a damn fine job of destroying its reputation on the world stage." who really cares what the un says they are even more ineffective than nato seems to be and let's be honest it may have been them four countries refusing to blame russia but plenty or other countries just refused to say if they blamed them or not,I'm surprised you haven't called anyone a bot yet who hasn't agreed with you | |||
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"Playing devil's advocate. Perhaps the logic is: Is it better to anger Ukraine and appease Russia and not provoke the bear anymore. On a global scale it's better to keep Russia happy and piss off Ukraine. I'm not fan of Trump but will we be saying in years to come he saved us from all out war by making a very difficult decision. I can honestly think that this is the only reason he's done what he's done, are we much closer to WW3 than we know. The consequences of this???? God only knows And let's be honest the situation hasn't improved Russia were never going to back down and the approach that's been in place hasn't been working. In a way it has worked for Biden he sold arms and then sold more, now Trump is in he brokers a peace deal and gets minerals and other precious metals for the USA to profit, (minus the old skim off the top) from. So no more deaths, no more war. Who can argue with that, maybe we can feel safer with less conflict and making less enemies to threaten us. Remember the changing narrative was because of this war all prices will go up, utilities will go up your mobile contract up, food up, everything has gone up and will never be the same again ever. Remember you can't forget as it is happening now. "No more deaths - no more war" does not require Donald Trump to be bribed. It only requires Russia to stop bombing and attacking Ukraine and go back to Russia. If you were Ukranian and had lost tens of thousands of your country folk fighting for your freedom against an invader, would you feel it fair to pay a third party, 20% to 30% of all the minerals in your country, for them to let the invader off scott free with what they had already taken? This is the kicker, Zelensky is continuously fighting the war on credit. This is not unique or new, it happens in every war but 3 years of serious arms deals has cost Ukraine dearly. It wouldn't matter who was president, they will want their money back, but Zelensky doesn't have it. The minerals are good way out of debt and it was Zelensky's idea to repay and continue funding the war via these resources, not Trump's." USA has given $183 billion of aid to Ukraine with $53 billion of that spent in the USA with US arms manufacturers. Unsurprisingly Trump has lied and said $350 billion has been given. However, he wants 50% of Ukraine's mineral deposits or circa $3.5 Trillion as payback. He is also seeking a commercial deal with Putin to access the minerals in the annexed area of Ukraine. | |||
"The way some "facts" are being said on here you would think the Kremlin/Washington had fab members "If you know differently then state your source and correct the "facts". | |||
"Playing devil's advocate. Perhaps the logic is: Is it better to anger Ukraine and appease Russia and not provoke the bear anymore. On a global scale it's better to keep Russia happy and piss off Ukraine. I'm not fan of Trump but will we be saying in years to come he saved us from all out war by making a very difficult decision. I can honestly think that this is the only reason he's done what he's done, are we much closer to WW3 than we know. The consequences of this???? God only knows And let's be honest the situation hasn't improved Russia were never going to back down and the approach that's been in place hasn't been working. In a way it has worked for Biden he sold arms and then sold more, now Trump is in he brokers a peace deal and gets minerals and other precious metals for the USA to profit, (minus the old skim off the top) from. So no more deaths, no more war. Who can argue with that, maybe we can feel safer with less conflict and making less enemies to threaten us. Remember the changing narrative was because of this war all prices will go up, utilities will go up your mobile contract up, food up, everything has gone up and will never be the same again ever. Remember you can't forget as it is happening now. "No more deaths - no more war" does not require Donald Trump to be bribed. It only requires Russia to stop bombing and attacking Ukraine and go back to Russia. If you were Ukranian and had lost tens of thousands of your country folk fighting for your freedom against an invader, would you feel it fair to pay a third party, 20% to 30% of all the minerals in your country, for them to let the invader off scott free with what they had already taken? This is the kicker, Zelensky is continuously fighting the war on credit. This is not unique or new, it happens in every war but 3 years of serious arms deals has cost Ukraine dearly. It wouldn't matter who was president, they will want their money back, but Zelensky doesn't have it. The minerals are good way out of debt and it was Zelensky's idea to repay and continue funding the war via these resources, not Trump's. USA has given $183 billion of aid to Ukraine with $53 billion of that spent in the USA with US arms manufacturers. Unsurprisingly Trump has lied and said $350 billion has been given. However, he wants 50% of Ukraine's mineral deposits or circa $3.5 Trillion as payback. He is also seeking a commercial deal with Putin to access the minerals in the annexed area of Ukraine. " Ukraine are disputing the money they owe, US are saying it is more than that. I think it is not safe to say Trump is lying, just because it is Trump.... On top of whatever they owe the US they also owe a little more to other nations who have provided support. The EU are also looking to do a deal on the minerals to pay off what is owed. Russia now controls approx 50% of the minerals in the occupied land. So you can take away from this that there is no way the US is going to take 50%, and it is not just the US that are looking for payment through rare minerals. That is the price of war. | |||
"The way some "facts" are being said on here you would think the Kremlin/Washington had fab members
If you know differently then state your source and correct the "facts". "You probably know more then me but that doesn't mean anything, Most facts you have sourced are fed to you, No one knows the truth its just educated opinions | |||
"Playing devil's advocate. Perhaps the logic is: Is it better to anger Ukraine and appease Russia and not provoke the bear anymore. On a global scale it's better to keep Russia happy and piss off Ukraine. I'm not fan of Trump but will we be saying in years to come he saved us from all out war by making a very difficult decision. I can honestly think that this is the only reason he's done what he's done, are we much closer to WW3 than we know. The consequences of this???? God only knows And let's be honest the situation hasn't improved Russia were never going to back down and the approach that's been in place hasn't been working. In a way it has worked for Biden he sold arms and then sold more, now Trump is in he brokers a peace deal and gets minerals and other precious metals for the USA to profit, (minus the old skim off the top) from. So no more deaths, no more war. Who can argue with that, maybe we can feel safer with less conflict and making less enemies to threaten us. Remember the changing narrative was because of this war all prices will go up, utilities will go up your mobile contract up, food up, everything has gone up and will never be the same again ever. Remember you can't forget as it is happening now. "No more deaths - no more war" does not require Donald Trump to be bribed. It only requires Russia to stop bombing and attacking Ukraine and go back to Russia. If you were Ukranian and had lost tens of thousands of your country folk fighting for your freedom against an invader, would you feel it fair to pay a third party, 20% to 30% of all the minerals in your country, for them to let the invader off scott free with what they had already taken? This is the kicker, Zelensky is continuously fighting the war on credit. This is not unique or new, it happens in every war but 3 years of serious arms deals has cost Ukraine dearly. It wouldn't matter who was president, they will want their money back, but Zelensky doesn't have it. The minerals are good way out of debt and it was Zelensky's idea to repay and continue funding the war via these resources, not Trump's. USA has given $183 billion of aid to Ukraine with $53 billion of that spent in the USA with US arms manufacturers. Unsurprisingly Trump has lied and said $350 billion has been given. However, he wants 50% of Ukraine's mineral deposits or circa $3.5 Trillion as payback. He is also seeking a commercial deal with Putin to access the minerals in the annexed area of Ukraine. Ukraine are disputing the money they owe, US are saying it is more than that. I think it is not safe to say Trump is lying, just because it is Trump.... On top of whatever they owe the US they also owe a little more to other nations who have provided support. The EU are also looking to do a deal on the minerals to pay off what is owed. Russia now controls approx 50% of the minerals in the occupied land. So you can take away from this that there is no way the US is going to take 50%, and it is not just the US that are looking for payment through rare minerals. That is the price of war." And that is what Putin wanted more control over resources to sell to the rest of the world so Russia has more wealth so he can take what he wants. | |||
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"Playing devil's advocate. Perhaps the logic is: Is it better to anger Ukraine and appease Russia and not provoke the bear anymore. On a global scale it's better to keep Russia happy and piss off Ukraine. I'm not fan of Trump but will we be saying in years to come he saved us from all out war by making a very difficult decision. I can honestly think that this is the only reason he's done what he's done, are we much closer to WW3 than we know. The consequences of this???? God only knows And let's be honest the situation hasn't improved Russia were never going to back down and the approach that's been in place hasn't been working. In a way it has worked for Biden he sold arms and then sold more, now Trump is in he brokers a peace deal and gets minerals and other precious metals for the USA to profit, (minus the old skim off the top) from. So no more deaths, no more war. Who can argue with that, maybe we can feel safer with less conflict and making less enemies to threaten us. Remember the changing narrative was because of this war all prices will go up, utilities will go up your mobile contract up, food up, everything has gone up and will never be the same again ever. Remember you can't forget as it is happening now. "No more deaths - no more war" does not require Donald Trump to be bribed. It only requires Russia to stop bombing and attacking Ukraine and go back to Russia. If you were Ukranian and had lost tens of thousands of your country folk fighting for your freedom against an invader, would you feel it fair to pay a third party, 20% to 30% of all the minerals in your country, for them to let the invader off scott free with what they had already taken? This is the kicker, Zelensky is continuously fighting the war on credit. This is not unique or new, it happens in every war but 3 years of serious arms deals has cost Ukraine dearly. It wouldn't matter who was president, they will want their money back, but Zelensky doesn't have it. The minerals are good way out of debt and it was Zelensky's idea to repay and continue funding the war via these resources, not Trump's. USA has given $183 billion of aid to Ukraine with $53 billion of that spent in the USA with US arms manufacturers. Unsurprisingly Trump has lied and said $350 billion has been given. However, he wants 50% of Ukraine's mineral deposits or circa $3.5 Trillion as payback. He is also seeking a commercial deal with Putin to access the minerals in the annexed area of Ukraine. Ukraine are disputing the money they owe, US are saying it is more than that. I think it is not safe to say Trump is lying, just because it is Trump.... On top of whatever they owe the US they also owe a little more to other nations who have provided support. The EU are also looking to do a deal on the minerals to pay off what is owed. Russia now controls approx 50% of the minerals in the occupied land. So you can take away from this that there is no way the US is going to take 50%, and it is not just the US that are looking for payment through rare minerals. That is the price of war. And that is what Putin wanted more control over resources to sell to the rest of the world so Russia has more wealth so he can take what he wants. " This is a counter to China, which has been limiting access to rare minerals. This is one of the key reasons Trump is focusing on China. They are playing a longterm game, and if left unchecked, they will dominate the tech sector, making countries like the US reliant on them. By securing Ukraine’s resources, Trump is pushing against Chinese control over the rare mineral market. This isn’t just about Ukraine’s debt, it’s about global power shifting away from the US and loss of economic leverage. As mentioned, it is not just the US and Russia, Europe are on this too. | |||
