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German Elections Feb 23rd 🇩🇪
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Are you following events with our friends in Deutschland ?
What outcome are you expecting or hoping for in the forthcoming national elections ?
CDU or SPD ? Greens or Afd ? Or more coalition chaos 🙈 |
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It's a PR system, so the result will reflect the votes cast, at least.
Can't see AFD getting anywhere near real power, though. They've pretty much got the same level of support as the Tories do, in Scotland.
That said, in this day and age, who knows? |
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Probably not long enough. Bottom line, if none of them will work with AFD, that's going to be baked in to future German politics.
If the majority of German voters don't want them anywhere near power, they won't be. Whatever arrangements need to be made.
The comparison I made earlier stands. It will take decades to change. If it ever does. |
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"Are you following events with our friends in Deutschland ?
What outcome are you expecting or hoping for in the forthcoming national elections ?
CDU or SPD ? Greens or Afd ? Or more coalition chaos 🙈"
Looking like the AFD will get a reasonable amount of the vote but as others say, the other parties will not have them in a coalition. Unfortunately this can lead to coalitions forming from parties that do not get on and opposed on many topics, leading to the collapse of government and then the cycle repeats. |
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"Are you following events with our friends in Deutschland ?
What outcome are you expecting or hoping for in the forthcoming national elections ?
CDU or SPD ? Greens or Afd ? Or more coalition chaos 🙈
Looking like the AFD will get a reasonable amount of the vote but as others say, the other parties will not have them in a coalition. Unfortunately this can lead to coalitions forming from parties that do not get on and opposed on many topics, leading to the collapse of government and then the cycle repeats."
I think at some point Afd will enter a coalition. Will mean them purging their lunatic fringe but the numbers are on their side. |
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What I hope for and what I think will happen are two separate things.
I hope for a stable centrist coalition. I doubt that will happen. What I think will happen is that the AfD vote will slowly increase and it will continue increasing for as long as the rest of the parties contort themselves into untenable positions to keep them away from power. These unstable coalitions only undermine the credibility of the non AfD parties and make the far right look increasingly like a credible opposition. Eventually that dam will break and they will get into power. And they might well do it with a majority caused by the discontent with the rest of the system - keeping them away from the levers of power might well give them untrammeled access to the levers of power. |
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"What I hope for and what I think will happen are two separate things.
I hope for a stable centrist coalition. I doubt that will happen. What I think will happen is that the AfD vote will slowly increase and it will continue increasing for as long as the rest of the parties contort themselves into untenable positions to keep them away from power. These unstable coalitions only undermine the credibility of the non AfD parties and make the far right look increasingly like a credible opposition. Eventually that dam will break and they will get into power. And they might well do it with a majority caused by the discontent with the rest of the system - keeping them away from the levers of power might well give them untrammeled access to the levers of power."
Very well put, if rather concerning. |
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"I think at some point Afd will enter a coalition. Will mean them purging their lunatic fringe but the numbers are on their side."
That purge will be a minimum requirement for a coalition. The sooner they do it, the better. |
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"Another terrorist attack by Afghan Asylum seeker, this time in Munich. 
What has so enraged this doctor or engineer?
Must be anger at the rise of the Far Right. "
Indeed. The previous car terrorist attack seems to have been quickly scrubbed from the news. |
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"Another terrorist attack by Afghan Asylum seeker, this time in Munich.
What has so enraged this doctor or engineer?
Must be anger at the rise of the Far Right. "
His Asylum application was rejected |
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"Another terrorist attack by Afghan Asylum seeker, this time in Munich. "
Almost as chilling as the Afghan nurse controversy in Australia at the moment.
It's a shame when guests in a country won't play nicely with the locals, it encourages all sorts of noxious politics, even when cases are isolated. |
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"Are you following events with our friends in Deutschland ?
What outcome are you expecting or hoping for in the forthcoming national elections ?
CDU or SPD ? Greens or Afd ? Or more coalition chaos 🙈"
More coalition chaos I'm afraid.
SPD (think Labour) are bolloxed, looking like 16/17% so Scholtz is history.
FDP (think Lib Dems) are even worse. On current polling they will be lucky to break the 5% threshold so likely no MP's at all.
Die Linke (hard left) and Sahra Wagenknecht (also hard left) are polling around 5% each so may just scrape a handful of MP's but could also get none.
CDU/CSU (think Conservative) are leading the polls with around 30% so will almost certainly be the biggest party.
The Greens have dipped a bit since the last election but are still around 12%.
Then there is AfD polling at just over 20% and likely to be the 2nd party.
Now the fun begins.
At 30% CDU/CSU will have to do a deal with someone but neither SPD or the Greens would be able to top them up to 50% so it will mean a deal with both. These are the two party's that have been the backbone of the disastrous, now collapsed, last government and CDU voters would never forgive them if they sold out just for political expediency.
So that leaves AfD hovering in the wings.
A 30% CDU and a 21/22% AfD would make over 50% and Germany would have a government.
CDU may not like it and they may now say that they would never do it. But sometimes real politic comes into play.
Fasten your seatbelts, it's gonna be a bumpy ride.
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"Another terrorist attack by Afghan Asylum seeker, this time in Munich.
What has so enraged this doctor or engineer?
Must be anger at the rise of the Far Right.
Indeed. The previous car terrorist attack seems to have been quickly scrubbed from the news."
In Germany it hardly made the news at all. Very quickly brushed under the carpet. |
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I would just add that with AfD it's very much an east/west split.
In the old west German states they are running at around 14/15% but in the old east Germany they are likely to be the winners. In some places they are polling in the mid 30's and way ahead of the other party's. |
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German post terror attack plan released:
Organise vigil (One Love or something)
Invite Muslim “Community Leaders” to talk about how Islam is a religion of peace so there’s nothing to worry about
Politicians to visit mosques to qualm any safety concerns they may have
Phone the press and ask them to talk about something else (suggest another Trump week)
Talk about hate speech a lot and jail a few people for spouting off online
Blame Elon Musk
Ban the “Far Right” from standing in any elections to save democracy
File post terror attack plan somewhere convenient so it’s ready for next week/month.
|
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"Oh he was also on the terror watch list "
So failed asylum claim and known to the police as a potential problem, begs the question what was he still doing in Germany. Should he not have been deported? |
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"German post terror attack plan released:
Organise vigil (One Love or something)
Invite Muslim “Community Leaders” to talk about how Islam is a religion of peace so there’s nothing to worry about
Politicians to visit mosques to qualm any safety concerns they may have
Phone the press and ask them to talk about something else (suggest another Trump week)
Talk about hate speech a lot and jail a few people for spouting off online
Blame Elon Musk
Ban the “Far Right” from standing in any elections to save democracy
File post terror attack plan somewhere convenient so it’s ready for next week/month.
"
yup that sounds about right the usual playbook |
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"Another terrorist attack by Afghan Asylum seeker, this time in Munich.
Almost as chilling as the Afghan nurse controversy in Australia at the moment.
It's a shame when guests in a country won't play nicely with the locals, it encourages all sorts of noxious politics, even when cases are isolated."
You look at the Arab nations. They make it clear to the immigrants that they are just guests in the country. They are expected to respect local culture. They have to reapply for visa every two years. You don't follow the laws, you are done.
Compare that to the European system where murderers and rapists won't even get deported because.... "Human rights".. Why would anyone respect the local people? |
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Polls are sometimes off and I think AfD will do better than polls suggest, I imagine with each terror attack there vote increases.
But then are they that far right,
The female leader is married to a female migrant from Asia I think? |
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"Polls are sometimes off and I think AfD will do better than polls suggest, I imagine with each terror attack there vote increases.
But then are they that far right,
The female leader is married to a female migrant from Asia I think?"
I think they will do better than expected. |
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"Polls are sometimes off and I think AfD will do better than polls suggest, I imagine with each terror attack there vote increases.
But then are they that far right,
The female leader is married to a female migrant from Asia I think?
I think they will do better than expected."
That seems to be the general consensus in Germany.
There is talk about people being a bit coy about admitting voting for AfD but when it comes to the crunch they will.
Also turnout and voter motivation will come into play.
Many SPD/Green voters will tell the pollsters who they will vote for but will they get off their backsides on the day?
AfD voters are very motivated and I expect they will turn out in big numbers.
Although I am a German resident I do not have a vote in this one. Mrs is German and will vote AfD as will all of her family and most of our German friends.
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"Oh he was also on the terror watch list
So failed asylum claim and known to the police as a potential problem, begs the question what was he still doing in Germany. Should he not have been deported?"
Of course he should have been deported and a long time ago.
One of the reasons the left leaning SPD/Green/FDP government collapsed was because of the lack of deportations.
|
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"German post terror attack plan released:
Organise vigil (One Love or something)
Invite Muslim “Community Leaders” to talk about how Islam is a religion of peace so there’s nothing to worry about
Politicians to visit mosques to qualm any safety concerns they may have
Phone the press and ask them to talk about something else (suggest another Trump week)
Talk about hate speech a lot and jail a few people for spouting off online
Blame Elon Musk
Ban the “Far Right” from standing in any elections to save democracy
File post terror attack plan somewhere convenient so it’s ready for next week/month.
"
My first thought was to laugh at that.
The irony is that all of the best jokes have a ring of truth in there somewhere.
Reading it a second time, it's not quite as funny. Far too close to the truth. |
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"German post terror attack plan released:
Organise vigil (One Love or something)
Invite Muslim “Community Leaders” to talk about how Islam is a religion of peace so there’s nothing to worry about
Politicians to visit mosques to qualm any safety concerns they may have
Phone the press and ask them to talk about something else (suggest another Trump week)
Talk about hate speech a lot and jail a few people for spouting off online
Blame Elon Musk
Ban the “Far Right” from standing in any elections to save democracy
File post terror attack plan somewhere convenient so it’s ready for next week/month.
"
As Buck demonstrates here, AfD will have a huge boner for this terror attack. They can use it to their advantage in the polls.
Let's hope Germans have more sense than the Americans and don't fall for the populist far right nonsense. |
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 |
By *otMe66Man 9 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
"German post terror attack plan released:
Organise vigil (One Love or something)
Invite Muslim “Community Leaders” to talk about how Islam is a religion of peace so there’s nothing to worry about
Politicians to visit mosques to qualm any safety concerns they may have
Phone the press and ask them to talk about something else (suggest another Trump week)
Talk about hate speech a lot and jail a few people for spouting off online
Blame Elon Musk
Ban the “Far Right” from standing in any elections to save democracy
File post terror attack plan somewhere convenient so it’s ready for next week/month.
As Buck demonstrates here, AfD will have a huge boner for this terror attack. They can use it to their advantage in the polls.
Let's hope Germans have more sense than the Americans and don't fall for the populist far right nonsense. "
How should the left in Germany counter the AfD advantage of this terror attack? |
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"Are you following events with our friends in Deutschland ?
What outcome are you expecting or hoping for in the forthcoming national elections ?
CDU or SPD ? Greens or Afd ? Or more coalition chaos 🙈
More coalition chaos I'm afraid.
SPD (think Labour) are bolloxed, looking like 16/17% so Scholtz is history.
FDP (think Lib Dems) are even worse. On current polling they will be lucky to break the 5% threshold so likely no MP's at all.
Die Linke (hard left) and Sahra Wagenknecht (also hard left) are polling around 5% each so may just scrape a handful of MP's but could also get none.
CDU/CSU (think Conservative) are leading the polls with around 30% so will almost certainly be the biggest party.
The Greens have dipped a bit since the last election but are still around 12%.
Then there is AfD polling at just over 20% and likely to be the 2nd party.
Now the fun begins.
At 30% CDU/CSU will have to do a deal with someone but neither SPD or the Greens would be able to top them up to 50% so it will mean a deal with both. These are the two party's that have been the backbone of the disastrous, now collapsed, last government and CDU voters would never forgive them if they sold out just for political expediency.
So that leaves AfD hovering in the wings.
A 30% CDU and a 21/22% AfD would make over 50% and Germany would have a government.
CDU may not like it and they may now say that they would never do it. But sometimes real politic comes into play.
Fasten your seatbelts, it's gonna be a bumpy ride.
"
I think Afd will need to do some serious housekeeping of their lunatic fringe but they're becoming too big to ignore for future coalitions. Maybe not this time but a CDU/Spd fudge Govt won't last long. I think Afd will be in Govt within 5 years. |
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"German post terror attack plan released:
Organise vigil (One Love or something)
Invite Muslim “Community Leaders” to talk about how Islam is a religion of peace so there’s nothing to worry about
Politicians to visit mosques to qualm any safety concerns they may have
Phone the press and ask them to talk about something else (suggest another Trump week)
Talk about hate speech a lot and jail a few people for spouting off online
Blame Elon Musk
Ban the “Far Right” from standing in any elections to save democracy
File post terror attack plan somewhere convenient so it’s ready for next week/month.
As Buck demonstrates here, AfD will have a huge boner for this terror attack. They can use it to their advantage in the polls.
Let's hope Germans have more sense than the Americans and don't fall for the populist far right nonsense. "
Yes can add another item to the plan.
“Enlist Leftist online trolls to talk up dangers of Far Right and generally deflect attention”. |
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"German post terror attack plan released:
Organise vigil (One Love or something)
Invite Muslim “Community Leaders” to talk about how Islam is a religion of peace so there’s nothing to worry about
Politicians to visit mosques to qualm any safety concerns they may have
Phone the press and ask them to talk about something else (suggest another Trump week)
Talk about hate speech a lot and jail a few people for spouting off online
Blame Elon Musk
Ban the “Far Right” from standing in any elections to save democracy
File post terror attack plan somewhere convenient so it’s ready for next week/month.
As Buck demonstrates here, AfD will have a huge boner for this terror attack. They can use it to their advantage in the polls.
Let's hope Germans have more sense than the Americans and don't fall for the populist far right nonsense.
How should the left in Germany counter the AfD advantage of this terror attack?"
I don't think it's the responsibility of "the left" to be the only bastions of understanding, and comprehension of the world around us. |
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Meanwhile some guy in London got stabbed for burning Quran.
A couple of months back, someone in Manchester was arrested for burning Quran.
And people still ask us with a straight face - "Why is Reform getting more followers? Why is fAr rIgHt rising? Are these people racist or something?" |
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"Oh he was also on the terror watch list
So failed asylum claim and known to the police as a potential problem, begs the question what was he still doing in Germany. Should he not have been deported?"
Of course he should have been deported but it seems EU countries have an issue deporting these people |
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"Oh he was also on the terror watch list
So failed asylum claim and known to the police as a potential problem, begs the question what was he still doing in Germany. Should he not have been deported?
Of course he should have been deported but it seems EU countries have an issue deporting these people "
He'd been refused asylum but allowed to stay and work anyway 🤦♂️ |
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"Oh he was also on the terror watch list
So failed asylum claim and known to the police as a potential problem, begs the question what was he still doing in Germany. Should he not have been deported?
Of course he should have been deported but it seems EU countries have an issue deporting these people
He'd been refused asylum but allowed to stay and work anyway 🤦♂️"
That's bonkers allowing him to both stay and work. Looks like innocent people have paid for such decisions |
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"Meanwhile some guy in London got stabbed for burning Quran.
A couple of months back, someone in Manchester was arrested for burning Quran.
And people still ask us with a straight face - "Why is Reform getting more followers? Why is fAr rIgHt rising? Are these people racist or something?""
There's probably places in America where burning the bible might get one shot, not saying violence is a solution to such acts but why do people think it's acceptable to burn any of the 'holy books'..?
If anyone digs down into them they've all got stuff which by today's standards are well wrong I know..
|
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"Oh he was also on the terror watch list
So failed asylum claim and known to the police as a potential problem, begs the question what was he still doing in Germany. Should he not have been deported?
Of course he should have been deported but it seems EU countries have an issue deporting these people
He'd been refused asylum but allowed to stay and work anyway 🤦♂️"
That's a mess..
Not very German at all.. |
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"Meanwhile some guy in London got stabbed for burning Quran.
A couple of months back, someone in Manchester was arrested for burning Quran.
And people still ask us with a straight face - "Why is Reform getting more followers? Why is fAr rIgHt rising? Are these people racist or something?"
There's probably places in America where burning the bible might get one shot, not saying violence is a solution to such acts but why do people think it's acceptable to burn any of the 'holy books'..?
If anyone digs down into them they've all got stuff which by today's standards are well wrong I know..
"
Can you show an example of someone being shot recently for burning a bible?
As for acceptability of burning holy books, people do it for various reasons. These reasons may not make sense to you but may make sense for the person who burns it.
In India, people belonging to a certain oppressed caste burn a specific Hindu holybook which was the root of caste system to show their hatred to its content. A gay person who had his life endangered in Islamic countries and escaped to the West could show his angst by burning the holy book.
End of the day, it's about individual freedom of expression. You and I may not like what they do. But they have the right to do it. |
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"Meanwhile some guy in London got stabbed for burning Quran.
A couple of months back, someone in Manchester was arrested for burning Quran.
And people still ask us with a straight face - "Why is Reform getting more followers? Why is fAr rIgHt rising? Are these people racist or something?"
There's probably places in America where burning the bible might get one shot, not saying violence is a solution to such acts but why do people think it's acceptable to burn any of the 'holy books'..?
If anyone digs down into them they've all got stuff which by today's standards are well wrong I know..
Can you show an example of someone being shot recently for burning a bible?
As for acceptability of burning holy books, people do it for various reasons. These reasons may not make sense to you but may make sense for the person who burns it.
In India, people belonging to a certain oppressed caste burn a specific Hindu holybook which was the root of caste system to show their hatred to its content. A gay person who had his life endangered in Islamic countries and escaped to the West could show his angst by burning the holy book.
End of the day, it's about individual freedom of expression. You and I may not like what they do. But they have the right to do it."
I clearly said might..
I never said they don't have the right, I question why it's necessary and I personally don't believe it is in order for someone to disagree with it or point out inaccuracies etc..
And with any 'right' to act in a deeply offensive and provocative way to others be that book burning etc there is inevitably a response that one might not welcome..
|
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"Meanwhile some guy in London got stabbed for burning Quran.
A couple of months back, someone in Manchester was arrested for burning Quran.
And people still ask us with a straight face - "Why is Reform getting more followers? Why is fAr rIgHt rising? Are these people racist or something?"
There's probably places in America where burning the bible might get one shot, not saying violence is a solution to such acts but why do people think it's acceptable to burn any of the 'holy books'..?
If anyone digs down into them they've all got stuff which by today's standards are well wrong I know..
Can you show an example of someone being shot recently for burning a bible?
As for acceptability of burning holy books, people do it for various reasons. These reasons may not make sense to you but may make sense for the person who burns it.
In India, people belonging to a certain oppressed caste burn a specific Hindu holybook which was the root of caste system to show their hatred to its content. A gay person who had his life endangered in Islamic countries and escaped to the West could show his angst by burning the holy book.
End of the day, it's about individual freedom of expression. You and I may not like what they do. But they have the right to do it.
I clearly said might..
I never said they don't have the right, I question why it's necessary and I personally don't believe it is in order for someone to disagree with it or point out inaccuracies etc..
And with any 'right' to act in a deeply offensive and provocative way to others be that book burning etc there is inevitably a response that one might not welcome..
"
Lots of stuff that happens in the pride parade are deeply offensive to others. If someone decides to attack the people in parade, will you be saying the same statement?
If someone responds violently to a book burning, it's the duty of the state to throw the violent person in the prison and throw away the keys. But unfortunately, the UK police arrest the person who burned a book. |
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"Opinion polls very steady, CSU on about 30%, Afd 20% and SPD 15%."
Yes, that's pretty much what I'm seeing.
Only real change is that Die Linke seem to be improving at the expense of BSW.
The election is going to be interesting but the horse trading afterwards could really be fun. So many what if's?
How's about this one.
What if SPD and the Greens combined get a fraction more than CDU/CSU (it's well within the margin for error) then with Die Linke try to form a government?
Fearing being pushed out altogether CDU then (maybe with a little shove from Trump and Musk) renege on their promise not to deal with AFD.
To govern with 30% they will have to do a deal with someone and if the other 3 got together there would be no other choice. |
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"Stabbings at the Holocaust Memorial in Berlin today. No details yet on attacker.
Doctor or engineer.
They just seem so angry nowadays."
Difficult to believe the location is random but we will see. |
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By (user no longer on site) 8 weeks ago
|
"Are you following events with our friends in Deutschland ?
What outcome are you expecting or hoping for in the forthcoming national elections ?
CDU or SPD ? Greens or Afd ? Or more coalition chaos 🙈"
Come on AfD.
It's the only hope Germany has. They won't win of course. The EU won't allow it. |
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"Are you following events with our friends in Deutschland ?
What outcome are you expecting or hoping for in the forthcoming national elections ?
CDU or SPD ? Greens or Afd ? Or more coalition chaos 🙈
Come on AfD.
It's the only hope Germany has. They won't win of course. The EU won't allow it."
If AfD won presumably the elections would get cancelled for some reason as per Romania. Probably claims of “Russian interference”.
I doubt the Germans have got the nuts anyway. They’ve been psychologically and intellectually neutered by WWII against being seen as “bad people”.
So despite a decade or more of mismanagement by their politicians and the destruction of their county by net zero and mass immigration, they will probably continue to vote the same people in to carry on with more of the same suicidal policies.
Same story across much of Western Europe.
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"Are you following events with our friends in Deutschland ?
What outcome are you expecting or hoping for in the forthcoming national elections ?
CDU or SPD ? Greens or Afd ? Or more coalition chaos 🙈
Come on AfD.
It's the only hope Germany has. They won't win of course. The EU won't allow it."
I don't think the Afd will be the biggest party but would not be surprised to see them do better than expected. Maybe 22-25% ? |
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"Are you following events with our friends in Deutschland ?
What outcome are you expecting or hoping for in the forthcoming national elections ?
CDU or SPD ? Greens or Afd ? Or more coalition chaos 🙈
Come on AfD.
It's the only hope Germany has. They won't win of course. The EU won't allow it.
I don't think the Afd will be the biggest party but would not be surprised to see them do better than expected. Maybe 22-25% ?"
That is what I'm thinking.
In her home town Mrs knows a lot of people and nearly everyone she speaks to is voting AfD. And our area is traditionally SPD.
In more left leaning Berlin the last poll put them on 17% and in very left wing Hamburg they have more than doubled their poll returns from 5% to 13%.
Even in CSU's back yard (Bavaria) they are polling at 19%. Up from 9% last time.
In the old east Germany they are hands down winners polling at over 30%.
Mrs has just been to vote (dressed in light blue of course) |
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By *coptoCouple 7 weeks ago
Côte d'Azur & Great Yarmouth |
"Mrs has just been to vote (dressed in light blue of course)"
Whereabouts? My missus is German too, but having no address in Germany she wasn't sure she was eligible.
Not sure how she would have voted, other than for a "No I'm NOT Responsible For WWII, I Wasn't Even Born" Party. |
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""Mrs has just been to vote (dressed in light blue of course)"
Whereabouts? My missus is German too, but having no address in Germany she wasn't sure she was eligible.
Not sure how she would have voted, other than for a "No I'm NOT Responsible For WWII, I Wasn't Even Born" Party."
My ex is German and its very difficult to register to vote from abroad although you have the right in theory. Usually need to register a long time before the election. |
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"Are you following events with our friends in Deutschland ?
What outcome are you expecting or hoping for in the forthcoming national elections ?
CDU or SPD ? Greens or Afd ? Or more coalition chaos 🙈
Come on AfD.
It's the only hope Germany has. They won't win of course. The EU won't allow it.
I don't think the Afd will be the biggest party but would not be surprised to see them do better than expected. Maybe 22-25% ?
That is what I'm thinking.
In her home town Mrs knows a lot of people and nearly everyone she speaks to is voting AfD. And our area is traditionally SPD.
In more left leaning Berlin the last poll put them on 17% and in very left wing Hamburg they have more than doubled their poll returns from 5% to 13%.
Even in CSU's back yard (Bavaria) they are polling at 19%. Up from 9% last time.
In the old east Germany they are hands down winners polling at over 30%.
Mrs has just been to vote (dressed in light blue of course)"
The East - West division is striking. If the Afd is biggest party in East makes it even harder to keep them out of Govt. |
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By *aven3Man 7 weeks ago
Stoford |
"Are you following events with our friends in Deutschland ?
What outcome are you expecting or hoping for in the forthcoming national elections ?
CDU or SPD ? Greens or Afd ? Or more coalition chaos 🙈
Looking like the AFD will get a reasonable amount of the vote but as others say, the other parties will not have them in a coalition. Unfortunately this can lead to coalitions forming from parties that do not get on and opposed on many topics, leading to the collapse of government and then the cycle repeats."
Yes, true.Short sighted not to work with the AFD.Next election,they will get more votes.Germany badly needs a change of direction,as does all of Europe. |
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""Mrs has just been to vote (dressed in light blue of course)"
Whereabouts? My missus is German too, but having no address in Germany she wasn't sure she was eligible.
Not sure how she would have voted, other than for a "No I'm NOT Responsible For WWII, I Wasn't Even Born" Party."
No-one has heard of our little town but we are part of Kreis Recklinghausen NRW.
Sort of between Essen and Dortmund. |
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"Are you following events with our friends in Deutschland ?
What outcome are you expecting or hoping for in the forthcoming national elections ?
CDU or SPD ? Greens or Afd ? Or more coalition chaos 🙈
Come on AfD.
It's the only hope Germany has. They won't win of course. The EU won't allow it.
I don't think the Afd will be the biggest party but would not be surprised to see them do better than expected. Maybe 22-25% ?
That is what I'm thinking.
In her home town Mrs knows a lot of people and nearly everyone she speaks to is voting AfD. And our area is traditionally SPD.
In more left leaning Berlin the last poll put them on 17% and in very left wing Hamburg they have more than doubled their poll returns from 5% to 13%.
Even in CSU's back yard (Bavaria) they are polling at 19%. Up from 9% last time.
In the old east Germany they are hands down winners polling at over 30%.
Mrs has just been to vote (dressed in light blue of course)
The East - West division is striking. If the Afd is biggest party in East makes it even harder to keep them out of Govt."
AfD will be by far the biggest party in the east. In some states they are ahead by a country mile and I think there will be a few surprises in the west.
First exit polls are due at 6pm (5pm UK time) |
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""Mrs has just been to vote (dressed in light blue of course)"
Whereabouts? My missus is German too, but having no address in Germany she wasn't sure she was eligible.
Not sure how she would have voted, other than for a "No I'm NOT Responsible For WWII, I Wasn't Even Born" Party."
Yes the old WWII guilt trip still hangs heavy with many Germans and if you delve into family histories there are some quite vivid contrasts.
In Mrs family a great uncle from one side was SS Leibstandarte and on the other side her grandparents sheltered a Jewish family in their cellar for months until they could get out of Germany. |
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By *coptoCouple 7 weeks ago
Côte d'Azur & Great Yarmouth |
My missus is from the Eifel, speaks Platt, and when we argue I say: “You’re not even German, just a Luxembourger from the other side of the Sauer”. But in WWII of course, conscripts from that region were sent to Russia so as not to have them called upon to fight neighbours or even family, and it was conscripts from the East who fought in France etc.
Father-in-law was a farmer (made it back from Stalingrad, put it down to being able to make schnapps from almost anything), his wife had to run the farm with prisoners-of-war. It was forbidden for them to eat with the family, and if there was a knock on the door they’d hide under the table or in cupboards so the old girl wouldn’t get carted off. |
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Looks like a real struggle for Merz to form a Govt thats any stronger than the previous coalition. If the Free Workers Party don't get info Parliament then CDU/CSU will need support of SPD and Greens to govern, the two parties that have been completely rejected at this election. The Greens will block any serious changes to energy or immigration policies and SPD will block any public sector reform.
The big winners are clearly the Afd who know that the 'firewall' against working with the will surely crumble in time. |
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"Looks like a real struggle for Merz to form a Govt thats any stronger than the previous coalition. If the Free Workers Party don't get info Parliament then CDU/CSU will need support of SPD and Greens to govern, the two parties that have been completely rejected at this election. The Greens will block any serious changes to energy or immigration policies and SPD will block any public sector reform.
The big winners are clearly the Afd who know that the 'firewall' against working with the will surely crumble in time. "
Yeah policy wise, CDU have lot in common with AfD. If they go to bed with SPD just because they don't want to work with AfD, the government wouldn't last for a year. They would just be paralysed due to infighting and eventually break. |
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"Looks like a real struggle for Merz to form a Govt thats any stronger than the previous coalition. If the Free Workers Party don't get info Parliament then CDU/CSU will need support of SPD and Greens to govern, the two parties that have been completely rejected at this election. The Greens will block any serious changes to energy or immigration policies and SPD will block any public sector reform.
The big winners are clearly the Afd who know that the 'firewall' against working with the will surely crumble in time.
Yeah policy wise, CDU have lot in common with AfD. If they go to bed with SPD just because they don't want to work with AfD, the government wouldn't last for a year. They would just be paralysed due to infighting and eventually break."
I agree, I don't see how another left-right coalition will last, especially including the greens. CDU needed 35% plus in this election. |
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Latest on actual votes counted.
CDU/CSU 28.5%.
AfD 20.8%.
SPD 16.4%.
Green 11.6%.
Die Linke 8.8%.
BSW 5%.
FDP 4.3%.
All pretty much as expected. FDP (think Lib Dems) at under 5% will get no MP's.
The interesting one is Sahra Wagenknecht's BSW. At 5% she will get a handful of MP's which could make a difference when they finally crunch the numbers. There are still a few to count so for her it could go either way. |
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"Latest on actual votes counted.
CDU/CSU 28.5%.
AfD 20.8%.
SPD 16.4%.
Green 11.6%.
Die Linke 8.8%.
BSW 5%.
FDP 4.3%.
All pretty much as expected. FDP (think Lib Dems) at under 5% will get no MP's.
The interesting one is Sahra Wagenknecht's BSW. At 5% she will get a handful of MP's which could make a difference when they finally crunch the numbers. There are still a few to count so for her it could go either way."
I heard BSW missed 5% by a tiny amount! Not sure if confirmed.
I does seem CDU can form a Govt without Greens which will help if so. Still bizarre that the humiliated SPD will stay in power. |
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A decent result. Almost 80% of voters wanted nothing to do with the AfD.
Given how Trump has shaken things up, is it possible that differences can be buried in the face of a greater threat, to form a wider coalition? I suppose we'll find out.
Certainly, Merz has laid his cards on the table as far as Trump is concerned. |
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By *otMe66Man 7 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
"A decent result. Almost 80% of voters wanted nothing to do with the AfD.
Given how Trump has shaken things up, is it possible that differences can be buried in the face of a greater threat, to form a wider coalition? I suppose we'll find out.
Certainly, Merz has laid his cards on the table as far as Trump is concerned."
I like your style 
But if we follow your logic, almost 85% of the voters wanted nothing to do with SPD  |
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"Latest on actual votes counted.
CDU/CSU 28.5%.
AfD 20.8%.
SPD 16.4%.
Green 11.6%.
Die Linke 8.8%.
BSW 5%.
FDP 4.3%.
All pretty much as expected. FDP (think Lib Dems) at under 5% will get no MP's.
The interesting one is Sahra Wagenknecht's BSW. At 5% she will get a handful of MP's which could make a difference when they finally crunch the numbers. There are still a few to count so for her it could go either way.
I heard BSW missed 5% by a tiny amount! Not sure if confirmed.
I does seem CDU can form a Govt without Greens which will help if so. Still bizarre that the humiliated SPD will stay in power."
Latest I've seen is BSW on 4.97%.
Some very big regional contrasts though.
In Hamburg AfD only polled just over 10% yet in Thuringia (old east) they got nearly 39% and well over 30% in 3 other old east German states.
We talk about the north/south divide but politically Germany has a very big east/west divide. |
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"Latest on actual votes counted.
CDU/CSU 28.5%.
AfD 20.8%.
SPD 16.4%.
Green 11.6%.
Die Linke 8.8%.
BSW 5%.
FDP 4.3%.
All pretty much as expected. FDP (think Lib Dems) at under 5% will get no MP's.
The interesting one is Sahra Wagenknecht's BSW. At 5% she will get a handful of MP's which could make a difference when they finally crunch the numbers. There are still a few to count so for her it could go either way.
I heard BSW missed 5% by a tiny amount! Not sure if confirmed.
I does seem CDU can form a Govt without Greens which will help if so. Still bizarre that the humiliated SPD will stay in power.
Latest I've seen is BSW on 4.97%.
Some very big regional contrasts though.
In Hamburg AfD only polled just over 10% yet in Thuringia (old east) they got nearly 39% and well over 30% in 3 other old east German states.
We talk about the north/south divide but politically Germany has a very big east/west divide."
It's a big problem I think. |
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"A decent result. Almost 80% of voters wanted nothing to do with the AfD.
Given how Trump has shaken things up, is it possible that differences can be buried in the face of a greater threat, to form a wider coalition? I suppose we'll find out.
Certainly, Merz has laid his cards on the table as far as Trump is concerned.
I like your style
But if we follow your logic, almost 85% of the voters wanted nothing to do with SPD "
60 odd percent wanted nothing to do with Labour last year but hey ho. |
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"A decent result. Almost 80% of voters wanted nothing to do with the AfD.
Given how Trump has shaken things up, is it possible that differences can be buried in the face of a greater threat, to form a wider coalition? I suppose we'll find out.
Certainly, Merz has laid his cards on the table as far as Trump is concerned.
I like your style
But if we follow your logic, almost 85% of the voters wanted nothing to do with SPD
60 odd percent wanted nothing to do with Labour last year but hey ho."
Or 70% wanted nothing to do with CDU/CSU who will form the Govt? |
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"A decent result. Almost 80% of voters wanted nothing to do with the AfD.
Given how Trump has shaken things up, is it possible that differences can be buried in the face of a greater threat, to form a wider coalition? I suppose we'll find out.
Certainly, Merz has laid his cards on the table as far as Trump is concerned.
I like your style
But if we follow your logic, almost 85% of the voters wanted nothing to do with SPD
60 odd percent wanted nothing to do with Labour last year but hey ho."
Indeed. And even fewer people wanted anything to do with the Tories, Reform, etc.
Bottom line - 40% of UK voters wanted to vote at all.
Given the utter dross on offer, that figure is likely to rise. |
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"A decent result. Almost 80% of voters wanted nothing to do with the AfD.
Given how Trump has shaken things up, is it possible that differences can be buried in the face of a greater threat, to form a wider coalition? I suppose we'll find out.
Certainly, Merz has laid his cards on the table as far as Trump is concerned.
I like your style
But if we follow your logic, almost 85% of the voters wanted nothing to do with SPD
60 odd percent wanted nothing to do with Labour last year but hey ho.
Indeed. And even fewer people wanted anything to do with the Tories, Reform, etc.
Bottom line - 40% of UK voters wanted to vote at all.
Given the utter dross on offer, that figure is likely to rise."
Ooops! 40% didn't want to vote. 😕 |
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"A decent result. Almost 80% of voters wanted nothing to do with the AfD.
Given how Trump has shaken things up, is it possible that differences can be buried in the face of a greater threat, to form a wider coalition? I suppose we'll find out.
Certainly, Merz has laid his cards on the table as far as Trump is concerned.
I like your style
But if we follow your logic, almost 85% of the voters wanted nothing to do with SPD
60 odd percent wanted nothing to do with Labour last year but hey ho.
Or 70% wanted nothing to do with CDU/CSU who will form the Govt?"
Yeah. It's not ideal. That said, is it worse than our system? Any coalition the Germans make is not going to have the sort of majority Labour currently enjoys. |
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"
Given how Trump has shaken things up, is it possible that differences can be buried in the face of a greater threat, to form a wider coalition? I suppose we'll find out.
"
I don't know what coalition is going to come from this but the options a very limited and the chances of it surviving a full 4 year term are very slim.
CDU and SPD is a possibility but they would be very uncomfortable bedfellows. Besides putting SPD back into government after they have been soundly rejected at the ballot box would not sit well with the electorate. Ditto the Greens who were also part of the last discredited government.
FDP were always a safe option to prop up coalitions in Germany but they haven't made the 5% threshold so are out of the picture this time.
After AfD the only other party is the hard left Die Linke and CDU wouldn't touch them with a barge pole. Besides on 8% they would make that much difference.
CDU has always said that it would never deal with AfD and (formally at least) I think they will stick to it. However, world events could change that.
My personal belief is that a deal will be cobbled together with SPD and a very weak government will be the result followed by another election in 18 months ish.
|
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"A decent result. Almost 80% of voters wanted nothing to do with the AfD.
Given how Trump has shaken things up, is it possible that differences can be buried in the face of a greater threat, to form a wider coalition? I suppose we'll find out.
Certainly, Merz has laid his cards on the table as far as Trump is concerned.
I like your style
But if we follow your logic, almost 85% of the voters wanted nothing to do with SPD
60 odd percent wanted nothing to do with Labour last year but hey ho.
Or 70% wanted nothing to do with CDU/CSU who will form the Govt?
Yeah. It's not ideal. That said, is it worse than our system? Any coalition the Germans make is not going to have the sort of majority Labour currently enjoys."
That is true and FPTP is far from perfect but I still think it's the least worst system.
At least with FPTP you usually get a government rather than a cobbled together coalition.
Since WW2 the UK has only had 2 coalitions (one formal and one informal) neither ended well.
The main problem with PR is that minor party's tend to hold the balance of power and get into positions that their electoral result doesn't warrant or deserve.
It's not as democratic as you may think. |
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"A decent result. Almost 80% of voters wanted nothing to do with the AfD.
Given how Trump has shaken things up, is it possible that differences can be buried in the face of a greater threat, to form a wider coalition? I suppose we'll find out.
Certainly, Merz has laid his cards on the table as far as Trump is concerned.
I like your style
But if we follow your logic, almost 85% of the voters wanted nothing to do with SPD
60 odd percent wanted nothing to do with Labour last year but hey ho.
Or 70% wanted nothing to do with CDU/CSU who will form the Govt?
Yeah. It's not ideal. That said, is it worse than our system? Any coalition the Germans make is not going to have the sort of majority Labour currently enjoys.
That is true and FPTP is far from perfect but I still think it's the least worst system.
At least with FPTP you usually get a government rather than a cobbled together coalition.
Since WW2 the UK has only had 2 coalitions (one formal and one informal) neither ended well.
The main problem with PR is that minor party's tend to hold the balance of power and get into positions that their electoral result doesn't warrant or deserve.
It's not as democratic as you may think. "
No but at least when a vote is taken on a bill in the house with PR the voice of the population is herd in a better way |
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"A decent result. Almost 80% of voters wanted nothing to do with the AfD.
Given how Trump has shaken things up, is it possible that differences can be buried in the face of a greater threat, to form a wider coalition? I suppose we'll find out.
Certainly, Merz has laid his cards on the table as far as Trump is concerned.
I like your style
But if we follow your logic, almost 85% of the voters wanted nothing to do with SPD
60 odd percent wanted nothing to do with Labour last year but hey ho.
Or 70% wanted nothing to do with CDU/CSU who will form the Govt?
Yeah. It's not ideal. That said, is it worse than our system? Any coalition the Germans make is not going to have the sort of majority Labour currently enjoys.
That is true and FPTP is far from perfect but I still think it's the least worst system.
At least with FPTP you usually get a government rather than a cobbled together coalition.
Since WW2 the UK has only had 2 coalitions (one formal and one informal) neither ended well.
The main problem with PR is that minor party's tend to hold the balance of power and get into positions that their electoral result doesn't warrant or deserve.
It's not as democratic as you may think.
No but at least when a vote is taken on a bill in the house with PR the voice of the population is herd in a better way "
But is it really? Imagine this situation.
At a hypothetical election (using PR) lets say Labour got 41% the Tories picked up 46% and the Lib Dems got 13% (I've kept it to 3 party's just for illustration and simplicity)
Labour do a deal with the Lib Dems and with 54% between them form a government.
Needless to say the Lib Dems will have almost certainly spoken to the Tories but picked the better deal (for them) with Labour. It could quite easily be the other way around.
The deal will of course include cabinet posts so you end up with a minor party with only 13% of the vote sitting in government while the party that actually won the election are sidelined.
It's bad enough now with people moaning that Labour are in power with only 20 odd percent of the electorate actually voting for them. But imagine the howls if that situation came to pass. |
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"A decent result. Almost 80% of voters wanted nothing to do with the AfD.
Given how Trump has shaken things up, is it possible that differences can be buried in the face of a greater threat, to form a wider coalition? I suppose we'll find out.
Certainly, Merz has laid his cards on the table as far as Trump is concerned.
I like your style
But if we follow your logic, almost 85% of the voters wanted nothing to do with SPD
60 odd percent wanted nothing to do with Labour last year but hey ho.
Or 70% wanted nothing to do with CDU/CSU who will form the Govt?
Yeah. It's not ideal. That said, is it worse than our system? Any coalition the Germans make is not going to have the sort of majority Labour currently enjoys.
That is true and FPTP is far from perfect but I still think it's the least worst system.
At least with FPTP you usually get a government rather than a cobbled together coalition.
Since WW2 the UK has only had 2 coalitions (one formal and one informal) neither ended well.
The main problem with PR is that minor party's tend to hold the balance of power and get into positions that their electoral result doesn't warrant or deserve.
It's not as democratic as you may think. "
It's entirely democratic in the only way that matters. Every vote has the same weight. Everybody's vote counts.
I will concede that coalitions then tend to go one way or the other - as I said, not ideal.
But if it prevents any party that's too far right, or too far left, that's a good thing.
As for assessing what's "too far", that's a bit like porn. It may be difficult to precisely define, but you know it when you see it. |
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"A decent result. Almost 80% of voters wanted nothing to do with the AfD.
Given how Trump has shaken things up, is it possible that differences can be buried in the face of a greater threat, to form a wider coalition? I suppose we'll find out.
Certainly, Merz has laid his cards on the table as far as Trump is concerned.
I like your style
But if we follow your logic, almost 85% of the voters wanted nothing to do with SPD
60 odd percent wanted nothing to do with Labour last year but hey ho.
Or 70% wanted nothing to do with CDU/CSU who will form the Govt?
Yeah. It's not ideal. That said, is it worse than our system? Any coalition the Germans make is not going to have the sort of majority Labour currently enjoys.
That is true and FPTP is far from perfect but I still think it's the least worst system.
At least with FPTP you usually get a government rather than a cobbled together coalition.
Since WW2 the UK has only had 2 coalitions (one formal and one informal) neither ended well.
The main problem with PR is that minor party's tend to hold the balance of power and get into positions that their electoral result doesn't warrant or deserve.
It's not as democratic as you may think.
No but at least when a vote is taken on a bill in the house with PR the voice of the population is herd in a better way
But is it really? Imagine this situation.
At a hypothetical election (using PR) lets say Labour got 41% the Tories picked up 46% and the Lib Dems got 13% (I've kept it to 3 party's just for illustration and simplicity)
Labour do a deal with the Lib Dems and with 54% between them form a government.
Needless to say the Lib Dems will have almost certainly spoken to the Tories but picked the better deal (for them) with Labour. It could quite easily be the other way around.
The deal will of course include cabinet posts so you end up with a minor party with only 13% of the vote sitting in government while the party that actually won the election are sidelined.
It's bad enough now with people moaning that Labour are in power with only 20 odd percent of the electorate actually voting for them. But imagine the howls if that situation came to pass. "
In this scenario, the Tories would be quite entitled to form a minority government; which would, obviously, be so popular that nobody would want to oppose it. Is that so far fetched? 🙂 |
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"
Given how Trump has shaken things up, is it possible that differences can be buried in the face of a greater threat, to form a wider coalition? I suppose we'll find out.
I don't know what coalition is going to come from this but the options a very limited and the chances of it surviving a full 4 year term are very slim.
CDU and SPD is a possibility but they would be very uncomfortable bedfellows. Besides putting SPD back into government after they have been soundly rejected at the ballot box would not sit well with the electorate. Ditto the Greens who were also part of the last discredited government.
FDP were always a safe option to prop up coalitions in Germany but they haven't made the 5% threshold so are out of the picture this time.
After AfD the only other party is the hard left Die Linke and CDU wouldn't touch them with a barge pole. Besides on 8% they would make that much difference.
CDU has always said that it would never deal with AfD and (formally at least) I think they will stick to it. However, world events could change that.
My personal belief is that a deal will be cobbled together with SPD and a very weak government will be the result followed by another election in 18 months ish.
"
World events have already hardened Merz's stance against the AfD.
You may be right, but I reckon resistance to far right politics in Germany is likely to stiffen. I'd go for the rest of Trump's term.
But, truth is - we're both guessing. 🙂 |
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"A decent result. Almost 80% of voters wanted nothing to do with the AfD.
Given how Trump has shaken things up, is it possible that differences can be buried in the face of a greater threat, to form a wider coalition? I suppose we'll find out.
Certainly, Merz has laid his cards on the table as far as Trump is concerned.
I like your style
But if we follow your logic, almost 85% of the voters wanted nothing to do with SPD
60 odd percent wanted nothing to do with Labour last year but hey ho.
Or 70% wanted nothing to do with CDU/CSU who will form the Govt?
Yeah. It's not ideal. That said, is it worse than our system? Any coalition the Germans make is not going to have the sort of majority Labour currently enjoys.
That is true and FPTP is far from perfect but I still think it's the least worst system.
At least with FPTP you usually get a government rather than a cobbled together coalition.
Since WW2 the UK has only had 2 coalitions (one formal and one informal) neither ended well.
The main problem with PR is that minor party's tend to hold the balance of power and get into positions that their electoral result doesn't warrant or deserve.
It's not as democratic as you may think.
No but at least when a vote is taken on a bill in the house with PR the voice of the population is herd in a better way
But is it really? Imagine this situation.
At a hypothetical election (using PR) lets say Labour got 41% the Tories picked up 46% and the Lib Dems got 13% (I've kept it to 3 party's just for illustration and simplicity)
Labour do a deal with the Lib Dems and with 54% between them form a government.
Needless to say the Lib Dems will have almost certainly spoken to the Tories but picked the better deal (for them) with Labour. It could quite easily be the other way around.
The deal will of course include cabinet posts so you end up with a minor party with only 13% of the vote sitting in government while the party that actually won the election are sidelined.
It's bad enough now with people moaning that Labour are in power with only 20 odd percent of the electorate actually voting for them. But imagine the howls if that situation came to pass.
In this scenario, the Tories would be quite entitled to form a minority government; which would, obviously, be so popular that nobody would want to oppose it. Is that so far fetched? 🙂"
In the febrile atmosphere of Westminster VERY far fetched. |
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"A decent result. Almost 80% of voters wanted nothing to do with the AfD.
Given how Trump has shaken things up, is it possible that differences can be buried in the face of a greater threat, to form a wider coalition? I suppose we'll find out.
Certainly, Merz has laid his cards on the table as far as Trump is concerned.
I like your style
But if we follow your logic, almost 85% of the voters wanted nothing to do with SPD
60 odd percent wanted nothing to do with Labour last year but hey ho.
Or 70% wanted nothing to do with CDU/CSU who will form the Govt?
Yeah. It's not ideal. That said, is it worse than our system? Any coalition the Germans make is not going to have the sort of majority Labour currently enjoys.
That is true and FPTP is far from perfect but I still think it's the least worst system.
At least with FPTP you usually get a government rather than a cobbled together coalition.
Since WW2 the UK has only had 2 coalitions (one formal and one informal) neither ended well.
The main problem with PR is that minor party's tend to hold the balance of power and get into positions that their electoral result doesn't warrant or deserve.
It's not as democratic as you may think.
No but at least when a vote is taken on a bill in the house with PR the voice of the population is herd in a better way
But is it really? Imagine this situation.
At a hypothetical election (using PR) lets say Labour got 41% the Tories picked up 46% and the Lib Dems got 13% (I've kept it to 3 party's just for illustration and simplicity)
Labour do a deal with the Lib Dems and with 54% between them form a government.
Needless to say the Lib Dems will have almost certainly spoken to the Tories but picked the better deal (for them) with Labour. It could quite easily be the other way around.
The deal will of course include cabinet posts so you end up with a minor party with only 13% of the vote sitting in government while the party that actually won the election are sidelined.
It's bad enough now with people moaning that Labour are in power with only 20 odd percent of the electorate actually voting for them. But imagine the howls if that situation came to pass.
In this scenario, the Tories would be quite entitled to form a minority government; which would, obviously, be so popular that nobody would want to oppose it. Is that so far fetched? 🙂
In the febrile atmosphere of Westminster VERY far fetched."
Indeed. Not enough people would support their policies. As we found out last July. Under the very much superior FPTP system. 🙂 |
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"
Given how Trump has shaken things up, is it possible that differences can be buried in the face of a greater threat, to form a wider coalition? I suppose we'll find out.
I don't know what coalition is going to come from this but the options a very limited and the chances of it surviving a full 4 year term are very slim.
CDU and SPD is a possibility but they would be very uncomfortable bedfellows. Besides putting SPD back into government after they have been soundly rejected at the ballot box would not sit well with the electorate. Ditto the Greens who were also part of the last discredited government.
FDP were always a safe option to prop up coalitions in Germany but they haven't made the 5% threshold so are out of the picture this time.
After AfD the only other party is the hard left Die Linke and CDU wouldn't touch them with a barge pole. Besides on 8% they would make that much difference.
CDU has always said that it would never deal with AfD and (formally at least) I think they will stick to it. However, world events could change that.
My personal belief is that a deal will be cobbled together with SPD and a very weak government will be the result followed by another election in 18 months ish.
World events have already hardened Merz's stance against the AfD.
You may be right, but I reckon resistance to far right politics in Germany is likely to stiffen. I'd go for the rest of Trump's term.
But, truth is - we're both guessing. 🙂"
Of course we are both guessing.
Being a German resident and married to a German I probably see and hear a bit more than most on here but it doesn't make me any kind of expert (oh how I hate that word)
I'm not so sure about the resistance to the right stiffening though. They said that after the last German election when AfD only got 10%.
I remember one commentator saying that it was just old people who voted AfD then, and that half of them will be dead before the next election. That worked out well. 
It's up to CDU to be a bit more radical now. They have to do something serious about migration and they have to end this green hysteria and get energy costs down. Like it or not those are the issues that the Germans voted on.
More of the same old same old will stiffen the support for the right, not the resistance. |
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"
Given how Trump has shaken things up, is it possible that differences can be buried in the face of a greater threat, to form a wider coalition? I suppose we'll find out.
I don't know what coalition is going to come from this but the options a very limited and the chances of it surviving a full 4 year term are very slim.
CDU and SPD is a possibility but they would be very uncomfortable bedfellows. Besides putting SPD back into government after they have been soundly rejected at the ballot box would not sit well with the electorate. Ditto the Greens who were also part of the last discredited government.
FDP were always a safe option to prop up coalitions in Germany but they haven't made the 5% threshold so are out of the picture this time.
After AfD the only other party is the hard left Die Linke and CDU wouldn't touch them with a barge pole. Besides on 8% they would make that much difference.
CDU has always said that it would never deal with AfD and (formally at least) I think they will stick to it. However, world events could change that.
My personal belief is that a deal will be cobbled together with SPD and a very weak government will be the result followed by another election in 18 months ish.
World events have already hardened Merz's stance against the AfD.
You may be right, but I reckon resistance to far right politics in Germany is likely to stiffen. I'd go for the rest of Trump's term.
But, truth is - we're both guessing. 🙂
Of course we are both guessing.
Being a German resident and married to a German I probably see and hear a bit more than most on here but it doesn't make me any kind of expert (oh how I hate that word)
I'm not so sure about the resistance to the right stiffening though. They said that after the last German election when AfD only got 10%.
I remember one commentator saying that it was just old people who voted AfD then, and that half of them will be dead before the next election. That worked out well.
It's up to CDU to be a bit more radical now. They have to do something serious about migration and they have to end this green hysteria and get energy costs down. Like it or not those are the issues that the Germans voted on.
More of the same old same old will stiffen the support for the right, not the resistance."
Fair enough. Would you be ok with a more pro-Putin party, like the AfD, in charge, though? Merkel already tried playing nice with him. You'll know better than me how that turned out.
Does he not need to be resisted? Can that not be done, whilst lowering immigration, etc? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
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"
Given how Trump has shaken things up, is it possible that differences can be buried in the face of a greater threat, to form a wider coalition? I suppose we'll find out.
I don't know what coalition is going to come from this but the options a very limited and the chances of it surviving a full 4 year term are very slim.
CDU and SPD is a possibility but they would be very uncomfortable bedfellows. Besides putting SPD back into government after they have been soundly rejected at the ballot box would not sit well with the electorate. Ditto the Greens who were also part of the last discredited government.
FDP were always a safe option to prop up coalitions in Germany but they haven't made the 5% threshold so are out of the picture this time.
After AfD the only other party is the hard left Die Linke and CDU wouldn't touch them with a barge pole. Besides on 8% they would make that much difference.
CDU has always said that it would never deal with AfD and (formally at least) I think they will stick to it. However, world events could change that.
My personal belief is that a deal will be cobbled together with SPD and a very weak government will be the result followed by another election in 18 months ish.
World events have already hardened Merz's stance against the AfD.
You may be right, but I reckon resistance to far right politics in Germany is likely to stiffen. I'd go for the rest of Trump's term.
But, truth is - we're both guessing. 🙂
Of course we are both guessing.
Being a German resident and married to a German I probably see and hear a bit more than most on here but it doesn't make me any kind of expert (oh how I hate that word)
I'm not so sure about the resistance to the right stiffening though. They said that after the last German election when AfD only got 10%.
I remember one commentator saying that it was just old people who voted AfD then, and that half of them will be dead before the next election. That worked out well.
It's up to CDU to be a bit more radical now. They have to do something serious about migration and they have to end this green hysteria and get energy costs down. Like it or not those are the issues that the Germans voted on.
More of the same old same old will stiffen the support for the right, not the resistance.
Fair enough. Would you be ok with a more pro-Putin party, like the AfD, in charge, though? Merkel already tried playing nice with him. You'll know better than me how that turned out.
Does he not need to be resisted? Can that not be done, whilst lowering immigration, etc?"
I don't agree that AfD are "pro Putin". They are just opposed to Germany sending billions that it can't really afford to Ukraine. Germany's economic powerhouse days are long gone and Germany has to cut its cloth accordingly.
I do think Putin should be resisted but that doesn't mean giving Zelensky a blank cheque. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
Given how Trump has shaken things up, is it possible that differences can be buried in the face of a greater threat, to form a wider coalition? I suppose we'll find out.
I don't know what coalition is going to come from this but the options a very limited and the chances of it surviving a full 4 year term are very slim.
CDU and SPD is a possibility but they would be very uncomfortable bedfellows. Besides putting SPD back into government after they have been soundly rejected at the ballot box would not sit well with the electorate. Ditto the Greens who were also part of the last discredited government.
FDP were always a safe option to prop up coalitions in Germany but they haven't made the 5% threshold so are out of the picture this time.
After AfD the only other party is the hard left Die Linke and CDU wouldn't touch them with a barge pole. Besides on 8% they would make that much difference.
CDU has always said that it would never deal with AfD and (formally at least) I think they will stick to it. However, world events could change that.
My personal belief is that a deal will be cobbled together with SPD and a very weak government will be the result followed by another election in 18 months ish.
World events have already hardened Merz's stance against the AfD.
You may be right, but I reckon resistance to far right politics in Germany is likely to stiffen. I'd go for the rest of Trump's term.
But, truth is - we're both guessing. 🙂
Of course we are both guessing.
Being a German resident and married to a German I probably see and hear a bit more than most on here but it doesn't make me any kind of expert (oh how I hate that word)
I'm not so sure about the resistance to the right stiffening though. They said that after the last German election when AfD only got 10%.
I remember one commentator saying that it was just old people who voted AfD then, and that half of them will be dead before the next election. That worked out well.
It's up to CDU to be a bit more radical now. They have to do something serious about migration and they have to end this green hysteria and get energy costs down. Like it or not those are the issues that the Germans voted on.
More of the same old same old will stiffen the support for the right, not the resistance.
Fair enough. Would you be ok with a more pro-Putin party, like the AfD, in charge, though? Merkel already tried playing nice with him. You'll know better than me how that turned out.
Does he not need to be resisted? Can that not be done, whilst lowering immigration, etc?
I don't agree that AfD are "pro Putin". They are just opposed to Germany sending billions that it can't really afford to Ukraine. Germany's economic powerhouse days are long gone and Germany has to cut its cloth accordingly.
I do think Putin should be resisted but that doesn't mean giving Zelensky a blank cheque."
Ok. You don't agree. There's no evidence they're in favour resisting Putin, is there?
As for not wanting to hand Zelensky a blank cheque; why not hand Ukraine all the Russian assets frozen in Western banks? It wouldn't cost Germany anything. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
Given how Trump has shaken things up, is it possible that differences can be buried in the face of a greater threat, to form a wider coalition? I suppose we'll find out.
I don't know what coalition is going to come from this but the options a very limited and the chances of it surviving a full 4 year term are very slim.
CDU and SPD is a possibility but they would be very uncomfortable bedfellows. Besides putting SPD back into government after they have been soundly rejected at the ballot box would not sit well with the electorate. Ditto the Greens who were also part of the last discredited government.
FDP were always a safe option to prop up coalitions in Germany but they haven't made the 5% threshold so are out of the picture this time.
After AfD the only other party is the hard left Die Linke and CDU wouldn't touch them with a barge pole. Besides on 8% they would make that much difference.
CDU has always said that it would never deal with AfD and (formally at least) I think they will stick to it. However, world events could change that.
My personal belief is that a deal will be cobbled together with SPD and a very weak government will be the result followed by another election in 18 months ish.
World events have already hardened Merz's stance against the AfD.
You may be right, but I reckon resistance to far right politics in Germany is likely to stiffen. I'd go for the rest of Trump's term.
But, truth is - we're both guessing. 🙂
Of course we are both guessing.
Being a German resident and married to a German I probably see and hear a bit more than most on here but it doesn't make me any kind of expert (oh how I hate that word)
I'm not so sure about the resistance to the right stiffening though. They said that after the last German election when AfD only got 10%.
I remember one commentator saying that it was just old people who voted AfD then, and that half of them will be dead before the next election. That worked out well.
It's up to CDU to be a bit more radical now. They have to do something serious about migration and they have to end this green hysteria and get energy costs down. Like it or not those are the issues that the Germans voted on.
More of the same old same old will stiffen the support for the right, not the resistance.
Fair enough. Would you be ok with a more pro-Putin party, like the AfD, in charge, though? Merkel already tried playing nice with him. You'll know better than me how that turned out.
Does he not need to be resisted? Can that not be done, whilst lowering immigration, etc?
I don't agree that AfD are "pro Putin". They are just opposed to Germany sending billions that it can't really afford to Ukraine. Germany's economic powerhouse days are long gone and Germany has to cut its cloth accordingly.
I do think Putin should be resisted but that doesn't mean giving Zelensky a blank cheque.
Ok. You don't agree. There's no evidence they're in favour resisting Putin, is there?
As for not wanting to hand Zelensky a blank cheque; why not hand Ukraine all the Russian assets frozen in Western banks? It wouldn't cost Germany anything."
What’s Ukraine going to do with $300 bn of Russian assets? Buy some more Lamborghinis?
The war is done. Ukraine isn’t going to win. That’s been obvious for two years.
Prolonging it just means more dead people and won’t affect the outcome. Ukraine will run out of people long before Russia does. |
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"
Given how Trump has shaken things up, is it possible that differences can be buried in the face of a greater threat, to form a wider coalition? I suppose we'll find out.
I don't know what coalition is going to come from this but the options a very limited and the chances of it surviving a full 4 year term are very slim.
CDU and SPD is a possibility but they would be very uncomfortable bedfellows. Besides putting SPD back into government after they have been soundly rejected at the ballot box would not sit well with the electorate. Ditto the Greens who were also part of the last discredited government.
FDP were always a safe option to prop up coalitions in Germany but they haven't made the 5% threshold so are out of the picture this time.
After AfD the only other party is the hard left Die Linke and CDU wouldn't touch them with a barge pole. Besides on 8% they would make that much difference.
CDU has always said that it would never deal with AfD and (formally at least) I think they will stick to it. However, world events could change that.
My personal belief is that a deal will be cobbled together with SPD and a very weak government will be the result followed by another election in 18 months ish.
World events have already hardened Merz's stance against the AfD.
You may be right, but I reckon resistance to far right politics in Germany is likely to stiffen. I'd go for the rest of Trump's term.
But, truth is - we're both guessing. 🙂
Of course we are both guessing.
Being a German resident and married to a German I probably see and hear a bit more than most on here but it doesn't make me any kind of expert (oh how I hate that word)
I'm not so sure about the resistance to the right stiffening though. They said that after the last German election when AfD only got 10%.
I remember one commentator saying that it was just old people who voted AfD then, and that half of them will be dead before the next election. That worked out well.
It's up to CDU to be a bit more radical now. They have to do something serious about migration and they have to end this green hysteria and get energy costs down. Like it or not those are the issues that the Germans voted on.
More of the same old same old will stiffen the support for the right, not the resistance.
Fair enough. Would you be ok with a more pro-Putin party, like the AfD, in charge, though? Merkel already tried playing nice with him. You'll know better than me how that turned out.
Does he not need to be resisted? Can that not be done, whilst lowering immigration, etc?
I don't agree that AfD are "pro Putin". They are just opposed to Germany sending billions that it can't really afford to Ukraine. Germany's economic powerhouse days are long gone and Germany has to cut its cloth accordingly.
I do think Putin should be resisted but that doesn't mean giving Zelensky a blank cheque.
Ok. You don't agree. There's no evidence they're in favour resisting Putin, is there?
As for not wanting to hand Zelensky a blank cheque; why not hand Ukraine all the Russian assets frozen in Western banks? It wouldn't cost Germany anything."
But that isn't Germany's decision to make. |
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or View forums list | |
"
Given how Trump has shaken things up, is it possible that differences can be buried in the face of a greater threat, to form a wider coalition? I suppose we'll find out.
I don't know what coalition is going to come from this but the options a very limited and the chances of it surviving a full 4 year term are very slim.
CDU and SPD is a possibility but they would be very uncomfortable bedfellows. Besides putting SPD back into government after they have been soundly rejected at the ballot box would not sit well with the electorate. Ditto the Greens who were also part of the last discredited government.
FDP were always a safe option to prop up coalitions in Germany but they haven't made the 5% threshold so are out of the picture this time.
After AfD the only other party is the hard left Die Linke and CDU wouldn't touch them with a barge pole. Besides on 8% they would make that much difference.
CDU has always said that it would never deal with AfD and (formally at least) I think they will stick to it. However, world events could change that.
My personal belief is that a deal will be cobbled together with SPD and a very weak government will be the result followed by another election in 18 months ish.
World events have already hardened Merz's stance against the AfD.
You may be right, but I reckon resistance to far right politics in Germany is likely to stiffen. I'd go for the rest of Trump's term.
But, truth is - we're both guessing. 🙂
Of course we are both guessing.
Being a German resident and married to a German I probably see and hear a bit more than most on here but it doesn't make me any kind of expert (oh how I hate that word)
I'm not so sure about the resistance to the right stiffening though. They said that after the last German election when AfD only got 10%.
I remember one commentator saying that it was just old people who voted AfD then, and that half of them will be dead before the next election. That worked out well.
It's up to CDU to be a bit more radical now. They have to do something serious about migration and they have to end this green hysteria and get energy costs down. Like it or not those are the issues that the Germans voted on.
More of the same old same old will stiffen the support for the right, not the resistance.
Fair enough. Would you be ok with a more pro-Putin party, like the AfD, in charge, though? Merkel already tried playing nice with him. You'll know better than me how that turned out.
Does he not need to be resisted? Can that not be done, whilst lowering immigration, etc?
I don't agree that AfD are "pro Putin". They are just opposed to Germany sending billions that it can't really afford to Ukraine. Germany's economic powerhouse days are long gone and Germany has to cut its cloth accordingly.
I do think Putin should be resisted but that doesn't mean giving Zelensky a blank cheque.
Ok. You don't agree. There's no evidence they're in favour resisting Putin, is there?
As for not wanting to hand Zelensky a blank cheque; why not hand Ukraine all the Russian assets frozen in Western banks? It wouldn't cost Germany anything.
But that isn't Germany's decision to make."
Fair enough. They could set an example by handing over the €3.95bn they have frozen though. Would that be ok? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
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"
Given how Trump has shaken things up, is it possible that differences can be buried in the face of a greater threat, to form a wider coalition? I suppose we'll find out.
I don't know what coalition is going to come from this but the options a very limited and the chances of it surviving a full 4 year term are very slim.
CDU and SPD is a possibility but they would be very uncomfortable bedfellows. Besides putting SPD back into government after they have been soundly rejected at the ballot box would not sit well with the electorate. Ditto the Greens who were also part of the last discredited government.
FDP were always a safe option to prop up coalitions in Germany but they haven't made the 5% threshold so are out of the picture this time.
After AfD the only other party is the hard left Die Linke and CDU wouldn't touch them with a barge pole. Besides on 8% they would make that much difference.
CDU has always said that it would never deal with AfD and (formally at least) I think they will stick to it. However, world events could change that.
My personal belief is that a deal will be cobbled together with SPD and a very weak government will be the result followed by another election in 18 months ish.
World events have already hardened Merz's stance against the AfD.
You may be right, but I reckon resistance to far right politics in Germany is likely to stiffen. I'd go for the rest of Trump's term.
But, truth is - we're both guessing. 🙂"
From the bits I have seen and read, it does not look like resistance to the far right is stiffening at all. It looks like the winning party went hard on reducing immigration during the campaign to try to win back votes from the AFD. If they carry this through then the AFD would get the policy they want without being in government. Bit like the old UKIP party influenced the then government on a referendum. I watched one of the people from the winners saying they are unlikely to have the greens in a coalition because they will oppose stricter controls on immigration. For the AFD to double its vote share does not look like people are turning away from them, in fact the opposite. |
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"
Given how Trump has shaken things up, is it possible that differences can be buried in the face of a greater threat, to form a wider coalition? I suppose we'll find out.
I don't know what coalition is going to come from this but the options a very limited and the chances of it surviving a full 4 year term are very slim.
CDU and SPD is a possibility but they would be very uncomfortable bedfellows. Besides putting SPD back into government after they have been soundly rejected at the ballot box would not sit well with the electorate. Ditto the Greens who were also part of the last discredited government.
FDP were always a safe option to prop up coalitions in Germany but they haven't made the 5% threshold so are out of the picture this time.
After AfD the only other party is the hard left Die Linke and CDU wouldn't touch them with a barge pole. Besides on 8% they would make that much difference.
CDU has always said that it would never deal with AfD and (formally at least) I think they will stick to it. However, world events could change that.
My personal belief is that a deal will be cobbled together with SPD and a very weak government will be the result followed by another election in 18 months ish.
World events have already hardened Merz's stance against the AfD.
You may be right, but I reckon resistance to far right politics in Germany is likely to stiffen. I'd go for the rest of Trump's term.
But, truth is - we're both guessing. 🙂
Of course we are both guessing.
Being a German resident and married to a German I probably see and hear a bit more than most on here but it doesn't make me any kind of expert (oh how I hate that word)
I'm not so sure about the resistance to the right stiffening though. They said that after the last German election when AfD only got 10%.
I remember one commentator saying that it was just old people who voted AfD then, and that half of them will be dead before the next election. That worked out well.
It's up to CDU to be a bit more radical now. They have to do something serious about migration and they have to end this green hysteria and get energy costs down. Like it or not those are the issues that the Germans voted on.
More of the same old same old will stiffen the support for the right, not the resistance.
Fair enough. Would you be ok with a more pro-Putin party, like the AfD, in charge, though? Merkel already tried playing nice with him. You'll know better than me how that turned out.
Does he not need to be resisted? Can that not be done, whilst lowering immigration, etc?
I don't agree that AfD are "pro Putin". They are just opposed to Germany sending billions that it can't really afford to Ukraine. Germany's economic powerhouse days are long gone and Germany has to cut its cloth accordingly.
I do think Putin should be resisted but that doesn't mean giving Zelensky a blank cheque.
Ok. You don't agree. There's no evidence they're in favour resisting Putin, is there?
As for not wanting to hand Zelensky a blank cheque; why not hand Ukraine all the Russian assets frozen in Western banks? It wouldn't cost Germany anything.
But that isn't Germany's decision to make.
Fair enough. They could set an example by handing over the €3.95bn they have frozen though. Would that be ok?"
No because, as pointed out on Sky News last night when this subject was discussed, it would be against international law.
Freezing money is fine but confiscating it would require a law change.
I've no idea as to how that change could come about. But one thing I know for certain is that Germany cannot act unilaterally without the book being thrown at them.
Besides, why just pick on Germany? Most of the frozen assets in Europe are held in Belgium. Abramovich hasn't been paid for Chelsea yet, maybe Starmer (Ukraine's best mate) would like to confiscate that and hand it over along with other assets frozen in London. Maybe you could accuse him of being "pro Putin" for not doing so.
I could go one but suffice to say, using this subject to try and discredit AfD is just a huge red herring. |
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By (user no longer on site) 7 weeks ago
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"
Given how Trump has shaken things up, is it possible that differences can be buried in the face of a greater threat, to form a wider coalition? I suppose we'll find out.
I don't know what coalition is going to come from this but the options a very limited and the chances of it surviving a full 4 year term are very slim.
CDU and SPD is a possibility but they would be very uncomfortable bedfellows. Besides putting SPD back into government after they have been soundly rejected at the ballot box would not sit well with the electorate. Ditto the Greens who were also part of the last discredited government.
FDP were always a safe option to prop up coalitions in Germany but they haven't made the 5% threshold so are out of the picture this time.
After AfD the only other party is the hard left Die Linke and CDU wouldn't touch them with a barge pole. Besides on 8% they would make that much difference.
CDU has always said that it would never deal with AfD and (formally at least) I think they will stick to it. However, world events could change that.
My personal belief is that a deal will be cobbled together with SPD and a very weak government will be the result followed by another election in 18 months ish.
World events have already hardened Merz's stance against the AfD.
You may be right, but I reckon resistance to far right politics in Germany is likely to stiffen. I'd go for the rest of Trump's term.
But, truth is - we're both guessing. 🙂
Of course we are both guessing.
Being a German resident and married to a German I probably see and hear a bit more than most on here but it doesn't make me any kind of expert (oh how I hate that word)
I'm not so sure about the resistance to the right stiffening though. They said that after the last German election when AfD only got 10%.
I remember one commentator saying that it was just old people who voted AfD then, and that half of them will be dead before the next election. That worked out well.
It's up to CDU to be a bit more radical now. They have to do something serious about migration and they have to end this green hysteria and get energy costs down. Like it or not those are the issues that the Germans voted on.
More of the same old same old will stiffen the support for the right, not the resistance.
Fair enough. Would you be ok with a more pro-Putin party, like the AfD, in charge, though? Merkel already tried playing nice with him. You'll know better than me how that turned out.
Does he not need to be resisted? Can that not be done, whilst lowering immigration, etc?
I don't agree that AfD are "pro Putin". They are just opposed to Germany sending billions that it can't really afford to Ukraine. Germany's economic powerhouse days are long gone and Germany has to cut its cloth accordingly.
I do think Putin should be resisted but that doesn't mean giving Zelensky a blank cheque.
Ok. You don't agree. There's no evidence they're in favour resisting Putin, is there?
As for not wanting to hand Zelensky a blank cheque; why not hand Ukraine all the Russian assets frozen in Western banks? It wouldn't cost Germany anything.
But that isn't Germany's decision to make.
Fair enough. They could set an example by handing over the €3.95bn they have frozen though. Would that be ok?
No because, as pointed out on Sky News last night when this subject was discussed, it would be against international law.
Freezing money is fine but confiscating it would require a law change.
I've no idea as to how that change could come about. But one thing I know for certain is that Germany cannot act unilaterally without the book being thrown at them.
Besides, why just pick on Germany? Most of the frozen assets in Europe are held in Belgium. Abramovich hasn't been paid for Chelsea yet, maybe Starmer (Ukraine's best mate) would like to confiscate that and hand it over along with other assets frozen in London. Maybe you could accuse him of being "pro Putin" for not doing so.
I could go one but suffice to say, using this subject to try and discredit AfD is just a huge red herring. "
The way Chelsea are playing Tranmere Rovers might have a higher value |
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"
Given how Trump has shaken things up, is it possible that differences can be buried in the face of a greater threat, to form a wider coalition? I suppose we'll find out.
I don't know what coalition is going to come from this but the options a very limited and the chances of it surviving a full 4 year term are very slim.
CDU and SPD is a possibility but they would be very uncomfortable bedfellows. Besides putting SPD back into government after they have been soundly rejected at the ballot box would not sit well with the electorate. Ditto the Greens who were also part of the last discredited government.
FDP were always a safe option to prop up coalitions in Germany but they haven't made the 5% threshold so are out of the picture this time.
After AfD the only other party is the hard left Die Linke and CDU wouldn't touch them with a barge pole. Besides on 8% they would make that much difference.
CDU has always said that it would never deal with AfD and (formally at least) I think they will stick to it. However, world events could change that.
My personal belief is that a deal will be cobbled together with SPD and a very weak government will be the result followed by another election in 18 months ish.
World events have already hardened Merz's stance against the AfD.
You may be right, but I reckon resistance to far right politics in Germany is likely to stiffen. I'd go for the rest of Trump's term.
But, truth is - we're both guessing. 🙂
Of course we are both guessing.
Being a German resident and married to a German I probably see and hear a bit more than most on here but it doesn't make me any kind of expert (oh how I hate that word)
I'm not so sure about the resistance to the right stiffening though. They said that after the last German election when AfD only got 10%.
I remember one commentator saying that it was just old people who voted AfD then, and that half of them will be dead before the next election. That worked out well.
It's up to CDU to be a bit more radical now. They have to do something serious about migration and they have to end this green hysteria and get energy costs down. Like it or not those are the issues that the Germans voted on.
More of the same old same old will stiffen the support for the right, not the resistance.
Fair enough. Would you be ok with a more pro-Putin party, like the AfD, in charge, though? Merkel already tried playing nice with him. You'll know better than me how that turned out.
Does he not need to be resisted? Can that not be done, whilst lowering immigration, etc?
I don't agree that AfD are "pro Putin". They are just opposed to Germany sending billions that it can't really afford to Ukraine. Germany's economic powerhouse days are long gone and Germany has to cut its cloth accordingly.
I do think Putin should be resisted but that doesn't mean giving Zelensky a blank cheque.
Ok. You don't agree. There's no evidence they're in favour resisting Putin, is there?
As for not wanting to hand Zelensky a blank cheque; why not hand Ukraine all the Russian assets frozen in Western banks? It wouldn't cost Germany anything.
But that isn't Germany's decision to make.
Fair enough. They could set an example by handing over the €3.95bn they have frozen though. Would that be ok?
No because, as pointed out on Sky News last night when this subject was discussed, it would be against international law.
Freezing money is fine but confiscating it would require a law change.
I've no idea as to how that change could come about. But one thing I know for certain is that Germany cannot act unilaterally without the book being thrown at them.
Besides, why just pick on Germany? Most of the frozen assets in Europe are held in Belgium. Abramovich hasn't been paid for Chelsea yet, maybe Starmer (Ukraine's best mate) would like to confiscate that and hand it over along with other assets frozen in London. Maybe you could accuse him of being "pro Putin" for not doing so.
I could go one but suffice to say, using this subject to try and discredit AfD is just a huge red herring. "
Is it? Still, nice to see you're all of a sudden in favour of international law. 🙂 |
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