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NHS corridor nurses
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"During the COVID crisis the govt was able to set-up nightingale hospitals...any reason they can't do the same to prevent people sitting in corridors for days on end???"
The Nightingale Hospitals where not fully equipped with equipment to save life or staff to fully run them to the level needed to save life. They where built as overflow for hospitals overwhelmed to move the worst to.
Think along the lines of a place to go to pass away in peace. |
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Dorries said on QT that in 1997 there were 250,000 NHS beds for a then population of 58 million
And today 146,000 beds for a population of 67 million
Doubting this I checked the King’s Fund website
‘The total number of NHS hospital beds in England has more than halved over the past 30 years, from around 299,000 in 1987/88 to 141,000 in 2019/20, while the number of patients treated has increased significantly’ |
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"Dorries said on QT that in 1997 there were 250,000 NHS beds for a then population of 58 million
And today 146,000 beds for a population of 67 million
Doubting this I checked the King’s Fund website
‘The total number of NHS hospital beds in England has more than halved over the past 30 years, from around 299,000 in 1987/88 to 141,000 in 2019/20, while the number of patients treated has increased significantly’"
There may be medical reasons for fewer overall beds:-
- Procedures are more efficient and can be handled as day cases.
- Stays on wards risks MRSA and viruses.
The problem seems to be A&E which is overloaded because GPs no longer attend minor cases outside Surgery hours. |
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"Dorries said on QT that in 1997 there were 250,000 NHS beds for a then population of 58 million
And today 146,000 beds for a population of 67 million
Doubting this I checked the King’s Fund website
‘The total number of NHS hospital beds in England has more than halved over the past 30 years, from around 299,000 in 1987/88 to 141,000 in 2019/20, while the number of patients treated has increased significantly’
There may be medical reasons for fewer overall beds:-
- Procedures are more efficient and can be handled as day cases.
- Stays on wards risks MRSA and viruses.
The problem seems to be A&E which is overloaded because GPs no longer attend minor cases outside Surgery hours."
Best of luck trying to get an appointment for a serious case inside surgery hours |
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By *otMe66Man 5 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
I read of staff shortages through illness and recruitment, opening other facilities wouldn't remove that issue.
In my opinion 2 things need to happen; Firstly GP's need to become flexible, becoming 24 x 7 x 365 where needed and all GP surgeries should be 365. I realise existing GP's would resist this approach, to remove the threat of GP interference we should create new contracts and set expectations for all doctors who wish to become a GP going forward.
Secondly, charging people for treatment that is not urgent. Publish a list of treatments that will attract a charge at point of entry.
I would expect numbers of non-urgent A&E visits to fall dramatically. |
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"I read of staff shortages through illness and recruitment, opening other facilities wouldn't remove that issue.
In my opinion 2 things need to happen; Firstly GP's need to become flexible, becoming 24 x 7 x 365 where needed and all GP surgeries should be 365. I realise existing GP's would resist this approach, to remove the threat of GP interference we should create new contracts and set expectations for all doctors who wish to become a GP going forward.
Secondly, charging people for treatment that is not urgent. Publish a list of treatments that will attract a charge at point of entry.
I would expect numbers of non-urgent A&E visits to fall dramatically. "
There isn't enough GP's to staff practices as it is, there's just under 2000 less GP's now than in 2015..
With an increase in population..
Any such imposition of 24 hour working and a number would retire and others would move into the private sector..
The problem with introducing charges as you suggest is that many would leave issues due to the costs then when those issues deteriorate guess where they will head to..?
I'm not saying there's a problem with some misusing the service, seen it in my career where ignorance and or mental health contributes to such..
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The country has been overwhelmed with immigration over the past 20 or so years yet the government has failed to invest in the infrastructure and services needed to keep the country running. Hospitals, schools, housing are all failing not oh because lack of money but mainly due to failing to plan and manage. |
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"The country has been overwhelmed with immigration over the past 20 or so years yet the government has failed to invest in the infrastructure and services needed to keep the country running. Hospitals, schools, housing are all failing not oh because lack of money but mainly due to failing to plan and manage. "
It's an easy pill to swallow that all the ills of the country have one simple thing to blame, ignoring the ageing population after the post war boom which is having a huge impact plus the failure by all governments to sort out the mess that is social care all contribute..
With you that successive governments have not looked ahead and planned for what was and is coming..
But that's not what an electorate seemingly more about the now wants .. |
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By *otMe66Man 5 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
"I read of staff shortages through illness and recruitment, opening other facilities wouldn't remove that issue.
In my opinion 2 things need to happen; Firstly GP's need to become flexible, becoming 24 x 7 x 365 where needed and all GP surgeries should be 365. I realise existing GP's would resist this approach, to remove the threat of GP interference we should create new contracts and set expectations for all doctors who wish to become a GP going forward.
Secondly, charging people for treatment that is not urgent. Publish a list of treatments that will attract a charge at point of entry.
I would expect numbers of non-urgent A&E visits to fall dramatically.
There isn't enough GP's to staff practices as it is, there's just under 2000 less GP's now than in 2015..
With an increase in population..
Any such imposition of 24 hour working and a number would retire and others would move into the private sector..
The problem with introducing charges as you suggest is that many would leave issues due to the costs then when those issues deteriorate guess where they will head to..?
I'm not saying there's a problem with some misusing the service, seen it in my career where ignorance and or mental health contributes to such..
"
GP numbers would be an issue today, but we have backed ourselves into a corner and done nothing about it. As far as I'm concerned, we need to move swiftly and decisively on this, plan for the next 10 years, new contracts, new practices, expectations and phase out the old GP's who simply will not allow the service to change to meet the needs of the public.
They remind of train drivers.
The payment for non-urgent medical treatment must be implemented, or we will see the end of the NHS. It is not fair or reasonable to expect treatment for non-urgent matters, it disproportionally impacts those people who do need urgent treatment and levels of service available at anytime of the day.
While I'm on my soapbox! I also believe any trust prioritising undocumented migrants as they arrive at A&E who are then taken straight to a consultant should be put under special measures. 2 tiering health services at the cost of the people paying for it, No. |
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"I read of staff shortages through illness and recruitment, opening other facilities wouldn't remove that issue.
In my opinion 2 things need to happen; Firstly GP's need to become flexible, becoming 24 x 7 x 365 where needed and all GP surgeries should be 365. I realise existing GP's would resist this approach, to remove the threat of GP interference we should create new contracts and set expectations for all doctors who wish to become a GP going forward.
Secondly, charging people for treatment that is not urgent. Publish a list of treatments that will attract a charge at point of entry.
I would expect numbers of non-urgent A&E visits to fall dramatically.
There isn't enough GP's to staff practices as it is, there's just under 2000 less GP's now than in 2015..
With an increase in population..
Any such imposition of 24 hour working and a number would retire and others would move into the private sector..
The problem with introducing charges as you suggest is that many would leave issues due to the costs then when those issues deteriorate guess where they will head to..?
I'm not saying there's a problem with some misusing the service, seen it in my career where ignorance and or mental health contributes to such..
GP numbers would be an issue today, but we have backed ourselves into a corner and done nothing about it. As far as I'm concerned, we need to move swiftly and decisively on this, plan for the next 10 years, new contracts, new practices, expectations and phase out the old GP's who simply will not allow the service to change to meet the needs of the public.
They remind of train drivers.
The payment for non-urgent medical treatment must be implemented, or we will see the end of the NHS. It is not fair or reasonable to expect treatment for non-urgent matters, it disproportionally impacts those people who do need urgent treatment and levels of service available at anytime of the day.
While I'm on my soapbox! I also believe any trust prioritising undocumented migrants as they arrive at A&E who are then taken straight to a consultant should be put under special measures. 2 tiering health services at the cost of the people paying for it, No."
Only on your first point..
GP number are an issue today, a very real issue..
Minimum of 7 years to train a GP, then I think it's a further 3 years in practice training..
So yeah it's nice to move swiftly but it ain't happening no matter how much one might wish..
We could attract some of the doctors who've left to Australia and America but that's more salary than we are presently paying..
Or we could strip more from developing countries but that won't go down well with some.. |
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By *otMe66Man 5 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
"I read of staff shortages through illness and recruitment, opening other facilities wouldn't remove that issue.
In my opinion 2 things need to happen; Firstly GP's need to become flexible, becoming 24 x 7 x 365 where needed and all GP surgeries should be 365. I realise existing GP's would resist this approach, to remove the threat of GP interference we should create new contracts and set expectations for all doctors who wish to become a GP going forward.
Secondly, charging people for treatment that is not urgent. Publish a list of treatments that will attract a charge at point of entry.
I would expect numbers of non-urgent A&E visits to fall dramatically.
There isn't enough GP's to staff practices as it is, there's just under 2000 less GP's now than in 2015..
With an increase in population..
Any such imposition of 24 hour working and a number would retire and others would move into the private sector..
The problem with introducing charges as you suggest is that many would leave issues due to the costs then when those issues deteriorate guess where they will head to..?
I'm not saying there's a problem with some misusing the service, seen it in my career where ignorance and or mental health contributes to such..
GP numbers would be an issue today, but we have backed ourselves into a corner and done nothing about it. As far as I'm concerned, we need to move swiftly and decisively on this, plan for the next 10 years, new contracts, new practices, expectations and phase out the old GP's who simply will not allow the service to change to meet the needs of the public.
They remind of train drivers.
The payment for non-urgent medical treatment must be implemented, or we will see the end of the NHS. It is not fair or reasonable to expect treatment for non-urgent matters, it disproportionally impacts those people who do need urgent treatment and levels of service available at anytime of the day.
While I'm on my soapbox! I also believe any trust prioritising undocumented migrants as they arrive at A&E who are then taken straight to a consultant should be put under special measures. 2 tiering health services at the cost of the people paying for it, No.
Only on your first point..
GP number are an issue today, a very real issue..
Minimum of 7 years to train a GP, then I think it's a further 3 years in practice training..
So yeah it's nice to move swiftly but it ain't happening no matter how much one might wish..
We could attract some of the doctors who've left to Australia and America but that's more salary than we are presently paying..
Or we could strip more from developing countries but that won't go down well with some.."
The timeframe is a long one and not something that should prevent a plan. The BMA hang us out out dry with this long timeframe all the time, act now and in 10 years time we will start to see the shift.
Time for change or the NHS is doomed.
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"I read of staff shortages through illness and recruitment, opening other facilities wouldn't remove that issue.
In my opinion 2 things need to happen; Firstly GP's need to become flexible, becoming 24 x 7 x 365 where needed and all GP surgeries should be 365. I realise existing GP's would resist this approach, to remove the threat of GP interference we should create new contracts and set expectations for all doctors who wish to become a GP going forward.
Secondly, charging people for treatment that is not urgent. Publish a list of treatments that will attract a charge at point of entry.
I would expect numbers of non-urgent A&E visits to fall dramatically. "
 |
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"I read of staff shortages through illness and recruitment, opening other facilities wouldn't remove that issue.
In my opinion 2 things need to happen; Firstly GP's need to become flexible, becoming 24 x 7 x 365 where needed and all GP surgeries should be 365. I realise existing GP's would resist this approach, to remove the threat of GP interference we should create new contracts and set expectations for all doctors who wish to become a GP going forward.
Secondly, charging people for treatment that is not urgent. Publish a list of treatments that will attract a charge at point of entry.
I would expect numbers of non-urgent A&E visits to fall dramatically. "
I found something interesting in Norway. People have to pay the first £200(equivalent in Norwegian Krone) each year, when they use the state healthcare, after which it becomes free.
I am guessing it was done so that people will not use the healthcare service for petty things and hog the line.
But I agree that we should probably filter out the types of treatments the NHS supports. |
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Nearly 20% of the nhs budget is spent on treating self inflicted obesity £6.5bn (rising to £9.7bn as we get fatter), smoking £2bn, drug abuse £20bn and alcohol diseases £3.5bn.
Paracetamol 49p at the Range or £9.90 per prescription. (In 2015, £142M spent on paracetamol and ibrufen)
Hospital hoppers at £400-1000 a time.
175,000 no show appointments
£2.8bn on administration
£20.8bn on malnutrition, food supply clearly needs addressing
A short and incomplete list to save a few quid and address the need for extra beds and nurses.
Start dealing with the causes |
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By *otMe66Man 5 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
"I read of staff shortages through illness and recruitment, opening other facilities wouldn't remove that issue.
In my opinion 2 things need to happen; Firstly GP's need to become flexible, becoming 24 x 7 x 365 where needed and all GP surgeries should be 365. I realise existing GP's would resist this approach, to remove the threat of GP interference we should create new contracts and set expectations for all doctors who wish to become a GP going forward.
Secondly, charging people for treatment that is not urgent. Publish a list of treatments that will attract a charge at point of entry.
I would expect numbers of non-urgent A&E visits to fall dramatically.
I found something interesting in Norway. People have to pay the first £200(equivalent in Norwegian Krone) each year, when they use the state healthcare, after which it becomes free.
I am guessing it was done so that people will not use the healthcare service for petty things and hog the line.
But I agree that we should probably filter out the types of treatments the NHS supports."
It is only a matter of time before we are paying out on treatment. No government is going to hike up tax to cover the real costs of the NHS, it needs to come up with a plan like Norway as you mentioned.
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By *otMe66Man 5 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
"Nearly 20% of the nhs budget is spent on treating self inflicted obesity £6.5bn (rising to £9.7bn as we get fatter), smoking £2bn, drug abuse £20bn and alcohol diseases £3.5bn.
Paracetamol 49p at the Range or £9.90 per prescription. (In 2015, £142M spent on paracetamol and ibrufen)
Hospital hoppers at £400-1000 a time.
175,000 no show appointments
£2.8bn on administration
£20.8bn on malnutrition, food supply clearly needs addressing
A short and incomplete list to save a few quid and address the need for extra beds and nurses.
Start dealing with the causes "
Some of those numbers are startlingly high! It is time for cahnge |
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"Nearly 20% of the nhs budget is spent on treating self inflicted obesity £6.5bn (rising to £9.7bn as we get fatter), smoking £2bn, drug abuse £20bn and alcohol diseases £3.5bn.
Paracetamol 49p at the Range or £9.90 per prescription. (In 2015, £142M spent on paracetamol and ibrufen)
Hospital hoppers at £400-1000 a time.
175,000 no show appointments
£2.8bn on administration
£20.8bn on malnutrition, food supply clearly needs addressing
A short and incomplete list to save a few quid and address the need for extra beds and nurses.
Start dealing with the causes "
Two things that can be resolved quite quickly and long overdue is the commercial sector's extortionate overpricing which is scandalous and the none shows..
Its not contentious politically and should get cross party support, plus for any government it will be a thumbs up from the vast majority of people.. |
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"Nearly 20% of the nhs budget is spent on treating self inflicted obesity £6.5bn (rising to £9.7bn as we get fatter), smoking £2bn, drug abuse £20bn and alcohol diseases £3.5bn.
Paracetamol 49p at the Range or £9.90 per prescription. (In 2015, £142M spent on paracetamol and ibrufen)
Hospital hoppers at £400-1000 a time.
175,000 no show appointments
£2.8bn on administration
£20.8bn on malnutrition, food supply clearly needs addressing
A short and incomplete list to save a few quid and address the need for extra beds and nurses.
Start dealing with the causes
Two things that can be resolved quite quickly and long overdue is the commercial sector's extortionate overpricing which is scandalous and the none shows..
Its not contentious politically and should get cross party support, plus for any government it will be a thumbs up from the vast majority of people.."
Who do you mean by commercial sector? If they are contracted to the NHS they'll have won their contracts in a tendering process, so how can they be overpriced? |
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"Nearly 20% of the nhs budget is spent on treating self inflicted obesity £6.5bn (rising to £9.7bn as we get fatter), smoking £2bn, drug abuse £20bn and alcohol diseases £3.5bn.
Paracetamol 49p at the Range or £9.90 per prescription. (In 2015, £142M spent on paracetamol and ibrufen)
Hospital hoppers at £400-1000 a time.
175,000 no show appointments
£2.8bn on administration
£20.8bn on malnutrition, food supply clearly needs addressing
A short and incomplete list to save a few quid and address the need for extra beds and nurses.
Start dealing with the causes
Some of those numbers are startlingly high! It is time for change "
Cost of living/poverty - affordable food choices
Food supply - cake, biscuit and sugary chemical laden drinks isles in supermarkets outsize the fruit and veg isles
Home cooking from scratch in decline, in favour of fast foods
34 million cars with near sole occupancy doing short trips not helping fitness
Life choices of alcohol, food and drugs burdening health services
Increasing cancer linked to diet choices -
red and processed meats, alcohol and sugary and ultra-processed foods increase cancer risk
Third children overweight
26 % adults obese, 37% of uk some 25 million people overweight
Fast food and cheap brand supermarkets target lower income neighbourhoods
I don’t see how the nhs alone can be responsible for all of outcomes of poor health
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"Nearly 20% of the nhs budget is spent on treating self inflicted obesity £6.5bn (rising to £9.7bn as we get fatter), smoking £2bn, drug abuse £20bn and alcohol diseases £3.5bn.
Paracetamol 49p at the Range or £9.90 per prescription. (In 2015, £142M spent on paracetamol and ibrufen)
Hospital hoppers at £400-1000 a time.
175,000 no show appointments
£2.8bn on administration
£20.8bn on malnutrition, food supply clearly needs addressing
A short and incomplete list to save a few quid and address the need for extra beds and nurses.
Start dealing with the causes
Two things that can be resolved quite quickly and long overdue is the commercial sector's extortionate overpricing which is scandalous and the none shows..
Its not contentious politically and should get cross party support, plus for any government it will be a thumbs up from the vast majority of people..
Who do you mean by commercial sector? If they are contracted to the NHS they'll have won their contracts in a tendering process, so how can they be overpriced?"
The companies who because of a flawed system are able to charge extortionate prices..
And yes the tendering process is broken so start with that..
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On average, in 2023:
14.7% of adults cycled once per month, but only 2.5% cycled five times per week or more.
76.5% of adults walked once per month, but only 43.4% walked three times per week.
Average person walks 210 miles a year; 0.6 mile a day / ten minutes exercise a day vs eight hours in bed
(Health . Org figs 7 Nov 2024) |
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"On average, in 2023:
14.7% of adults cycled once per month, but only 2.5% cycled five times per week or more.
76.5% of adults walked once per month, but only 43.4% walked three times per week.
Average person walks 210 miles a year; 0.6 mile a day / ten minutes exercise a day vs eight hours in bed
(Health . Org figs 7 Nov 2024)"
Imagine the comparison with even 30 years ago, let alone 60 !  |
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