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Was Jesus a Palestinian Refugee ?
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Apparently yes according to the oddball survival expert Bear Grills.
The fact that Jesus was Jewish, Palestine didn't exist, and his parents were travelling for a Roman census has escaped poor old Bare - obviously been eating too many insects again !
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"I thought the Roman Empire called that part of the world Palestine and hence the inhabitants being Palestinians. Judaism being a religion rather than a nationality."
When Jesus's was born the area was formed of two kingdoms Israel and Judea. Bethlehem, where Jesus's was born was in Judea. Palestine as an area did not exist and tge name change you mentioned only took place much later.
The name change was likely a punitive measure to disconnect the Jews from the province. The name Palaestina refers to the Philistines, who lived on the Mediterranean coast and were closely related to the ancient Greeks. The Romans likely reapplied the term to the Land of Israel after defeating a Judean uprising in 135 CE.
So no Jesus's wasn't a Palestinian refugee, he was a Jew, from Judea and later moved to Nazareth in Israel.
Mrs x |
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By *ermbiMan 2 weeks ago
Ballyshannon |
"He wasnt a palistinian refugee he was an illusionist, a bit like david blaine, unfortunatley back then people were a lot more stupid and belived it when he said he was the son of god"
Not a respectful comment for those who hold Jesus's as the founder of Christianity and Son of God |
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"He wasnt a palistinian refugee he was an illusionist, a bit like david blaine, unfortunatley back then people were a lot more stupid and belived it when he said he was the son of god
Not a respectful comment for those who hold Jesus's as the founder of Christianity and Son of God"
o dont suppose calling him a palistinian refugee is respectful either, luckily i dont buy into the grift that is religion, big ball of fire in the sky is why we are here once that goes out so do we |
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By *ermbiMan 2 weeks ago
Ballyshannon |
"He wasnt a palistinian refugee he was an illusionist, a bit like david blaine, unfortunatley back then people were a lot more stupid and belived it when he said he was the son of god
Not a respectful comment for those who hold Jesus's as the founder of Christianity and Son of God o dont suppose calling him a palistinian refugee is respectful either, luckily i dont buy into the grift that is religion, big ball of fire in the sky is why we are here once that goes out so do we"
No problem with the Palestinian refugees part but be respectful of those who are believers. As you are not that's fine but big of respect isn't a lot to ask
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"He wasnt a palistinian refugee he was an illusionist, a bit like david blaine, unfortunatley back then people were a lot more stupid and belived it when he said he was the son of god
Not a respectful comment for those who hold Jesus's as the founder of Christianity and Son of God o dont suppose calling him a palistinian refugee is respectful either, luckily i dont buy into the grift that is religion, big ball of fire in the sky is why we are here once that goes out so do we
No problem with the Palestinian refugees part but be respectful of those who are believers. As you are not that's fine but big of respect isn't a lot to ask
"
oh i see im not allowed to voice an opinion if you dont like it, i dont think i was being direspectful, if you tried that grift in this day and age people would call ya a conman |
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By *ermbiMan 2 weeks ago
Ballyshannon |
"He wasnt a palistinian refugee he was an illusionist, a bit like david blaine, unfortunatley back then people were a lot more stupid and belived it when he said he was the son of god
Not a respectful comment for those who hold Jesus's as the founder of Christianity and Son of God o dont suppose calling him a palistinian refugee is respectful either, luckily i dont buy into the grift that is religion, big ball of fire in the sky is why we are here once that goes out so do we
No problem with the Palestinian refugees part but be respectful of those who are believers. As you are not that's fine but big of respect isn't a lot to ask
oh i see im not allowed to voice an opinion if you dont like it, i dont think i was being direspectful, if you tried that grift in this day and age people would call ya a conman"
Where did I say not allowing to voice an opinion . You can but being respectful of the beliefs of others is a different matter |
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"He wasnt a palistinian refugee he was an illusionist, a bit like david blaine, unfortunatley back then people were a lot more stupid and belived it when he said he was the son of god
Not a respectful comment for those who hold Jesus's as the founder of Christianity and Son of God o dont suppose calling him a palistinian refugee is respectful either, luckily i dont buy into the grift that is religion, big ball of fire in the sky is why we are here once that goes out so do we
No problem with the Palestinian refugees part but be respectful of those who are believers. As you are not that's fine but big of respect isn't a lot to ask
oh i see im not allowed to voice an opinion if you dont like it, i dont think i was being direspectful, if you tried that grift in this day and age people would call ya a conman
Where did I say not allowing to voice an opinion . You can but being respectful of the beliefs of others is a different matter"
its not rocket science if my post offends you jog on and dont reply |
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By *ermbiMan 2 weeks ago
Ballyshannon |
"He wasnt a palistinian refugee he was an illusionist, a bit like david blaine, unfortunatley back then people were a lot more stupid and belived it when he said he was the son of god
Not a respectful comment for those who hold Jesus's as the founder of Christianity and Son of God o dont suppose calling him a palistinian refugee is respectful either, luckily i dont buy into the grift that is religion, big ball of fire in the sky is why we are here once that goes out so do we
No problem with the Palestinian refugees part but be respectful of those who are believers. As you are not that's fine but big of respect isn't a lot to ask
oh i see im not allowed to voice an opinion if you dont like it, i dont think i was being direspectful, if you tried that grift in this day and age people would call ya a conman
Where did I say not allowing to voice an opinion . You can but being respectful of the beliefs of others is a different matterits not rocket science if my post offends you jog on and dont reply"
Now who's imposing a restriction on what I want to say and where |
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"He wasnt a palistinian refugee he was an illusionist, a bit like david blaine, unfortunatley back then people were a lot more stupid and belived it when he said he was the son of god
Not a respectful comment for those who hold Jesus's as the founder of Christianity and Son of God o dont suppose calling him a palistinian refugee is respectful either, luckily i dont buy into the grift that is religion, big ball of fire in the sky is why we are here once that goes out so do we
No problem with the Palestinian refugees part but be respectful of those who are believers. As you are not that's fine but big of respect isn't a lot to ask
oh i see im not allowed to voice an opinion if you dont like it, i dont think i was being direspectful, if you tried that grift in this day and age people would call ya a conman
Where did I say not allowing to voice an opinion . You can but being respectful of the beliefs of others is a different matterits not rocket science if my post offends you jog on and dont reply
Now who's imposing a restriction on what I want to say and where"
you can say what u like,myzelf if i got as offended as you seem to be i wouldnt even bother conversing with the person, but hey thats just me, perhaps you really like taking offence about things who knows |
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By *ermbiMan 2 weeks ago
Ballyshannon |
"He wasnt a palistinian refugee he was an illusionist, a bit like david blaine, unfortunatley back then people were a lot more stupid and belived it when he said he was the son of god
Not a respectful comment for those who hold Jesus's as the founder of Christianity and Son of God o dont suppose calling him a palistinian refugee is respectful either, luckily i dont buy into the grift that is religion, big ball of fire in the sky is why we are here once that goes out so do we
No problem with the Palestinian refugees part but be respectful of those who are believers. As you are not that's fine but big of respect isn't a lot to ask
oh i see im not allowed to voice an opinion if you dont like it, i dont think i was being direspectful, if you tried that grift in this day and age people would call ya a conman
Where did I say not allowing to voice an opinion . You can but being respectful of the beliefs of others is a different matterits not rocket science if my post offends you jog on and dont reply
Now who's imposing a restriction on what I want to say and whereyou can say what u like,myzelf if i got as offended as you seem to be i wouldnt even bother conversing with the person, but hey thats just me, perhaps you really like taking offence about things who knows"
Weak comeback |
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"He wasnt a palistinian refugee he was an illusionist, a bit like david blaine, unfortunatley back then people were a lot more stupid and belived it when he said he was the son of god
Not a respectful comment for those who hold Jesus's as the founder of Christianity and Son of God o dont suppose calling him a palistinian refugee is respectful either, luckily i dont buy into the grift that is religion, big ball of fire in the sky is why we are here once that goes out so do we
No problem with the Palestinian refugees part but be respectful of those who are believers. As you are not that's fine but big of respect isn't a lot to ask
oh i see im not allowed to voice an opinion if you dont like it, i dont think i was being direspectful, if you tried that grift in this day and age people would call ya a conman
Where did I say not allowing to voice an opinion . You can but being respectful of the beliefs of others is a different matterits not rocket science if my post offends you jog on and dont reply
Now who's imposing a restriction on what I want to say and whereyou can say what u like,myzelf if i got as offended as you seem to be i wouldnt even bother conversing with the person, but hey thats just me, perhaps you really like taking offence about things who knows
Weak comeback"
comeback? Ahhh i get it now your just an argumentative person lol, yea think i will end this conversation now, you seem to thrive from the attention good day to you xx |
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"Did he even exist or was a political invention?
It’s no more than a story book
Jesus apparently fed 5,000 people with five loaves of bread and two fish
Whoever fell for all this BS "
Perhaps it's meant to be a metaphor? |
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"
Jesus apparently fed 5,000 people with five loaves of bread and two fish
Whoever fell for all this BS
Perhaps it's meant to be a metaphor?"
I think perhaps his speech was so engaging and powerful that it distracted the listeners from thinking about the fact they hadn't eaten |
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"He wasnt a palistinian refugee he was an illusionist, a bit like david blaine, unfortunatley back then people were a lot more stupid and belived it when he said he was the son of god
Not a respectful comment for those who hold Jesus's as the founder of Christianity and Son of God"
Consider it a good thing that Christian beliefs can be challenged (unlike some other faiths). It's not a bad thing to reflect on what the Abrahamic faiths out of the Middle East have brought us. Good and bad I'd say. Remember our forebears worshipped the Sun, Moon and Mother Nature for far far longer than Christianity has dominated. Happy Yule!! |
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I’m sure I read/heard that Mary and Joseph had no reason to go to Bethlehem for a census, as Joseph was from Galilee, and at the time of Jesus’ alleged birth, Galilee wasn’t part of the Roman Empire, unlike Judea ( which was), so Joseph wouldn’t have needed to go to Bethlehem (which was in Judea).
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"I thought the Roman Empire called that part of the world Palestine and hence the inhabitants being Palestinians. Judaism being a religion rather than a nationality."
Jews are a people, rather than just a religion - there were lots of ethnic groups in that region, but Jews are the only group that have had a continuous presence there for 3000 years - you don't have to be religious to be ethnically Jewish.
Think of being English and all the customs we have that come from Northern Europe - well, Jewish customs are based around the events, mythology, seasons and calendar of the ancient Israel region (Eretz Israel).
The Romans renamed Judea to Syria Palestina in around 70ad, to humiliate the Jewish inhabitants who had tried to rebel against the occupation - but the name Palestine (or similar terms) had been around before, largely to refer to the Philistines who lived around the Gaza region.
Most of the Jews were forced into sIavery or fled into Europe; apart from their traditions, language and calendar, there are also direct DNA links that connect them to the ancient Levant.
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"I’m sure I read/heard that Mary and Joseph had no reason to go to Bethlehem for a census, as Joseph was from Galilee, and at the time of Jesus’ alleged birth, Galilee wasn’t part of the Roman Empire, unlike Judea ( which was), so Joseph wouldn’t have needed to go to Bethlehem (which was in Judea).
"
Galilee was a part of the Roman empire at the time of Christ. It was one of three provinces that made up the area controlled by the Romans and it was ruled over by King Herod.
Mrs x |
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"I’m sure I read/heard that Mary and Joseph had no reason to go to Bethlehem for a census, as Joseph was from Galilee, and at the time of Jesus’ alleged birth, Galilee wasn’t part of the Roman Empire, unlike Judea ( which was), so Joseph wouldn’t have needed to go to Bethlehem (which was in Judea).
Galilee was a part of the Roman empire at the time of Christ. It was one of three provinces that made up the area controlled by the Romans and it was ruled over by King Herod.
Mrs x"
I thought Galilee became part of the Roman Empire a bit later and all the provinces became Palestine (or whatever the Roman/Latin name was).
I could be wrong though.
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"I’m sure I read/heard that Mary and Joseph had no reason to go to Bethlehem for a census, as Joseph was from Galilee, and at the time of Jesus’ alleged birth, Galilee wasn’t part of the Roman Empire, unlike Judea ( which was), so Joseph wouldn’t have needed to go to Bethlehem (which was in Judea).
Galilee was a part of the Roman empire at the time of Christ. It was one of three provinces that made up the area controlled by the Romans and it was ruled over by King Herod.
Mrs x
I thought Galilee became part of the Roman Empire a bit later and all the provinces became Palestine (or whatever the Roman/Latin name was).
I could be wrong though.
"
No it was definitely one of the three provinces under Roman control at the time of Christ's birth, Mrs x |
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That area was called Peleset by Egyptians in 11C BC.
About 300 years later the Assyrian’s had it on their maps as Palestu.
In 5 BC The Greek historian Herodotus
Described a Syrian region between Phoenicia and Egypt called Palaistine. |
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"That area was called Peleset by Egyptians in 11C BC.
About 300 years later the Assyrian’s had it on their maps as Palestu.
In 5 BC The Greek historian Herodotus
Described a Syrian region between Phoenicia and Egypt called Palaistine."
And all of that was in reference to the coastal regions occupied by the Philistines. Herodotus did potentially allude to inland regions, but he was widely considered inaccurate.
The word Palestine and its variants originally stem from Greek.
What matters though, is that Palestine was 1. not an official name for Eretz Israel / Judea until after 70ad and 2. Palestine was never an independently governed state.
The modern Palestinians are Arabs - or Arabised Levantines - and have no connections to the ancient Philistines. |
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"That area was called Peleset by Egyptians in 11C BC.
About 300 years later the Assyrian’s had it on their maps as Palestu.
In 5 BC The Greek historian Herodotus
Described a Syrian region between Phoenicia and Egypt called Palaistine."
There's never been a country called Palestine, ever. Mrs x |
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"He wasnt a palistinian refugee he was an illusionist, a bit like david blaine, unfortunatley back then people were a lot more stupid and belived it when he said he was the son of god"
When he turned water to wine at a wedding....you know that wasn't the first time he did it. You don't pull out your big tricks at a wedding having not done them before.
Jesus of the bible was a dude.
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By *AJMLKTV/TS 2 weeks ago
Burley |
"That area was called Peleset by Egyptians in 11C BC.
About 300 years later the Assyrian’s had it on their maps as Palestu.
In 5 BC The Greek historian Herodotus
Described a Syrian region between Phoenicia and Egypt called Palaistine."
There were no Egyptians in the 11th century BC. Then it was called Kemet, not named Egypt until 5th century BC. |
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"He wasnt a palistinian refugee he was an illusionist, a bit like david blaine, unfortunatley back then people were a lot more stupid and belived it when he said he was the son of god
When he turned water to wine at a wedding....you know that wasn't the first time he did it. You don't pull out your big tricks at a wedding having not done them before.
Jesus of the bible was a dude.
"
Possibly, but here's the thing. If Jesus acts were so amazing why weren't they written down there and then? Why wait 30 to 90 years to even make a start? It makes no sense, unless a particular narrative was being constructed for political reasons. |
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"He wasnt a palistinian refugee he was an illusionist, a bit like david blaine, unfortunatley back then people were a lot more stupid and belived it when he said he was the son of god
When he turned water to wine at a wedding....you know that wasn't the first time he did it. You don't pull out your big tricks at a wedding having not done them before.
Jesus of the bible was a dude.
"
Turning water into wine is easy. Even I can do it.
Just plant a grapevine give it some (but not too much) water. Wait a few months pick the grapes crush and ferment them and hey presto. WINE! Simples.
Feeding wasn't to difficult either.
Brian just showed them a Juniper bush. |
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"He wasnt a palistinian refugee he was an illusionist, a bit like david blaine, unfortunatley back then people were a lot more stupid and belived it when he said he was the son of god
When he turned water to wine at a wedding....you know that wasn't the first time he did it. You don't pull out your big tricks at a wedding having not done them before.
Jesus of the bible was a dude.
Possibly, but here's the thing. If Jesus acts were so amazing why weren't they written down there and then? Why wait 30 to 90 years to even make a start? It makes no sense, unless a particular narrative was being constructed for political reasons."
Of course it was for political reasons. Like all religious fairy stories it was invented as just a way of controlling the masses.
I think we can take it for granted that there was a bloke in Jerusalem who got a bit gobby and seriously pissed off the Romans.
The Romans, being Romans, did their usual and nailed his arse to a cross. In the normal scheme of things that would have been that, but.....
A few years later some bright spark thought it would be a good idea to pad the story out a bit. A miracle or two here and there, trash a temple, call him the son of god and chuck in a few platitudes (the meek shall inherit the earth and so on) and there you go.
Then this bright spark and his few followers had a bit of a problem. How could he be the son of god if he actually had an earthly father?
It took a while but eventually they came up with a solution.
OK we need angels, a bright star, a few geezers from the east bearing gifts and his old mum can be a virgin.
Fine, but he can't be a rich dude, no-one will swallow that.
Simple, we say that he was born in a stable and slept in a water trough. Oh and for good measure some poor shepherds turned up as well. That should do the trick.
For a while very few people believed this guff until them pesky Romans got involved again.
Hold on said Biggus Dickus. We can use this.
Let the people think that the meek shall inherit the earth. Oh and it's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich guy to get to heaven. That will keep the masses off our back for a while.
And the rest is history.
Merry Christmas. |
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"I thought the Roman Empire called that part of the world Palestine and hence the inhabitants being Palestinians. Judaism being a religion rather than a nationality.When Jesus's was born the area was formed of two kingdoms Israel and Judea. Bethlehem, where Jesus's was born was in Judea. Palestine as an area did not exist and tge name change you mentioned only took place much later.
The name change was likely a punitive measure to disconnect the Jews from the province. The name Palaestina refers to the Philistines, who lived on the Mediterranean coast and were closely related to the ancient Greeks. The Romans likely reapplied the term to the Land of Israel after defeating a Judean uprising in 135 CE.
So no Jesus's wasn't a Palestinian refugee, he was a Jew, from Judea and later moved to Nazareth in Israel.
Mrs x"
Except that the Greek Herodotus referred to the area as Palestine in the 5th century BCE, and some form of the term had been used for several centuries before that. Though indeed, at Jesus’s time, it was the Judean province of the Roman Empire, and may well have been renamed after the Jewish revolt to dissociate it from the Jews.
And also, the Judah-Israel division - wasn’t that several centuries earlier, before the Assysrian victory over the northern Israel?
Though indeed, Nazareth seems to have been in the Galilee region, rather than Judea.
And apparently at one point Jesus fled to Egypt to escape King Herod.
So Jesus was a Judean-Palestinian-Galilean-Jewish refugee. What that means for the current conflict, I’m not quite sure. |
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"Except that the Greek Herodotus referred to the area as Palestine in the 5th century BCE, and some form of the term had been used for several centuries before that."
The various words for Palestine were all related to the Philistines who live along the coastline rather than the inland regions - and had nothing to do with the Arabs who lived there from the 7th century.
The Romans renamed the entire area Syria Palestina to remove all trace of Judea and to teach the Jews a lesson for daring to rise up against the Empire.
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"Except that the Greek Herodotus referred to the area as Palestine in the 5th century BCE, and some form of the term had been used for several centuries before that.
The various words for Palestine were all related to the Philistines who live along the coastline rather than the inland regions - and had nothing to do with the Arabs who lived there from the 7th century.
The Romans renamed the entire area Syria Palestina to remove all trace of Judea and to teach the Jews a lesson for daring to rise up against the Empire.
"
You are spot on Mrs x |
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"Damn it, this must be the sequel. I missed part one , Was Jesus real. With the tag line let’s hope so because a whole lot of people have died in his name."
He seems to have lost his mojo in regards to this, there's a 'new' kid in town who's followers will kill, in greater numbers, than Jesus's right now. Mrs x
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By *eacresteMan 2 days ago
hart village - Hartlepool |
"Except that the Greek Herodotus referred to the area as Palestine in the 5th century BCE, and some form of the term had been used for several centuries before that.
The various words for Palestine were all related to the Philistines who live along the coastline rather than the inland regions - and had nothing to do with the Arabs who lived there from the 7th century.
The Romans renamed the entire area Syria Palestina to remove all trace of Judea and to teach the Jews a lesson for daring to rise up against the Empire.
"
Does this mean Israel have a claim for Syrian land now? |
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Does this mean Israel have a claim for Syrian land now?"
The area we think of as Palestine / Israel / Jordan was called Southern Syria by the Ottoman Empire, so yes they do for that particular region.
They also have a stronger claim than the Hashemites of Saudi have for Jordan. |
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By *eacresteMan 1 day ago
hart village - Hartlepool |
"
Does this mean Israel have a claim for Syrian land now?
The area we think of as Palestine / Israel / Jordan was called Southern Syria by the Ottoman Empire, so yes they do for that particular region.
They also have a stronger claim than the Hashemites of Saudi have for Jordan."
How does that sit with the Jewish concept that God exiled the Jews for their sins 2000 years ago and can't return until god decrees it.
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"How does that sit with the Jewish concept that God exiled the Jews for their sins 2000 years ago and can't return until god decrees it."
It's not a universal concept and has various interpretations.
But, those that believe the Promised Land is yet to come (i.e. Neturei Karta) also believe it will encompass parts of Jordan, Lebanon and further into Syria - and I'm pretty sure everyone who attempts to use this as an argument, would still be resentful if it ever actually happened.
Nevertheless, Jews are a people and religion is not necessary to be an ethnic Jew - and Jewish culture, history, mythology and practices all formed in the land of Israel.
Regardless of how you use the word indigenous, it's the Jewish homeland and they are the oldest surviving people from that region.
Further North, into the Syrian/Turkish/Iranian borders, another ancient people - the Assyrians - are still in the diaspora that followed the Ottoman Genocides of 1914. They still have no formal home and I would also support their return and claim for self-determination. |
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"He wasnt a palistinian refugee he was an illusionist, a bit like david blaine, unfortunatley back then people were a lot more stupid and belived it when he said he was the son of god
Not a respectful comment for those who hold Jesus's as the founder of Christianity and Son of God o dont suppose calling him a palistinian refugee is respectful either, luckily i dont buy into the grift that is religion, big ball of fire in the sky is why we are here once that goes out so do we
No problem with the Palestinian refugees part but be respectful of those who are believers. As you are not that's fine but big of respect isn't a lot to ask
oh i see im not allowed to voice an opinion if you dont like it, i dont think i was being direspectful, if you tried that grift in this day and age people would call ya a conman
Where did I say not allowing to voice an opinion . You can but being respectful of the beliefs of others is a different matterits not rocket science if my post offends you jog on and dont reply
Now who's imposing a restriction on what I want to say and whereyou can say what u like,myzelf if i got as offended as you seem to be i wouldnt even bother conversing with the person, but hey thats just me, perhaps you really like taking offence about things who knows
Weak comebackcomeback? Ahhh i get it now your just an argumentative person lol, yea think i will end this conversation now, you seem to thrive from the attention good day to you xx"
Ah, two blokes with their cocks out fighting about religion on Fab, Jesus Christ!
There’s nothing like Fab in my opinion. |
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