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The Politics of Envy ?
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Labour's targets so far - private schools, landowners, private business owners...
Is there a pattern here of old school socialist envy as practiced by the likes of Jeremy Corbyn and Joseph Stalin ?
What happens when all the wealth owners and creators have been driven away or impoverished ? Who will pay the taxes then ? 🤷♂️
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What happens when all the wealth owners and creators have been driven away or impoverished ? Who will pay the taxes then ? 🤷♂️
"
Then we will all be reliant on the state and compliant if we want to exist. |
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By *otMe66Man 2 days ago
Terra Firma |
It was inevitable...
He needs to Keep the socialist base satisfied with policies that target the wealthy, they are happy now but there is always the risk they’ll turn on their own if their expectations are not met.
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On the farmers and IHT, the bbc is reporting the government expect this policy to raise £520million by 2030
The 5000 empty ‘buffer’ hotel rooms allocated to small boat arrivals costs £600k a day / £219M a year.
Seems like a rob Peter pay Paul policy |
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"On the farmers and IHT, the bbc is reporting the government expect this policy to raise £520million by 2030
The 5000 empty ‘buffer’ hotel rooms allocated to small boat arrivals costs £600k a day / £219M a year.
Seems like a rob Peter pay Paul policy "
Farmers feed the nation, the others fleece it.  |
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Within a year, they will realise that they won't get the tax money they think they will get. It's like closing the "non-dom loophole". Everyone made big predictions on how much tax the government will receive because of it, only to realise that they aren't getting any.
There are already many anecdotal stories of businesses laying off people because of the emoloyer NI increase. They might well end up getting lower taxes than they used to and even more spending because, more children will now be in state schools and they have agreed to every union demand on pay raises. |
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"Within a year, they will realise that they won't get the tax money they think they will get. It's like closing the "non-dom loophole". Everyone made big predictions on how much tax the government will receive because of it, only to realise that they aren't getting any.
There are already many anecdotal stories of businesses laying off people because of the emoloyer NI increase. They might well end up getting lower taxes than they used to and even more spending because, more children will now be in state schools and they have agreed to every union demand on pay raises."
I think you are completely correct. Also much of the money they are pouring into the NHS and public sector wage rises will not lead to any improvement in outcomes or productivity, and we'll soon be told many more billions are needed. |
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"On the farmers and IHT, the bbc is reporting the government expect this policy to raise £520million by 2030
The 5000 empty ‘buffer’ hotel rooms allocated to small boat arrivals costs £600k a day / £219M a year.
Seems like a rob Peter pay Paul policy "
Yes they expect it to only affect about 500 farmers and yet expect it to raise £530 million… that’s some insanely unplayable tax liabilities per head |
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"What about old aged pensioners? Liebour don’t seem to like them very much…
Where did this self defeating "leibour" term come from?
Probably from one of the people who can't spell Keir!"
It’s spelt Keir Farmer-Harmer and he’s one dumb ass puppet who doesn’t understand the consequences of his actions. |
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"Within a year, they will realise that they won't get the tax money they think they will get. It's like closing the "non-dom loophole". Everyone made big predictions on how much tax the government will receive because of it, only to realise that they aren't getting any.
There are already many anecdotal stories of businesses laying off people because of the emoloyer NI increase. They might well end up getting lower taxes than they used to and even more spending because, more children will now be in state schools and they have agreed to every union demand on pay raises."
There is no might, Liebour have put the economy into hard reverse! |
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"Also much of the money they are pouring into the NHS and public sector wage rises will not lead to any improvement in outcomes or productivity, and we'll soon be told many more billions are needed."
They did't even try for improvements. When Rachel Reeves announced an extra £22.6bn for the NHS she said that it was for "day to day expenses". |
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"Also much of the money they are pouring into the NHS and public sector wage rises will not lead to any improvement in outcomes or productivity, and we'll soon be told many more billions are needed.
They did't even try for improvements. When Rachel Reeves announced an extra £22.6bn for the NHS she said that it was for "day to day expenses". "
Yes, senior managers have already said they need more money.  |
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By *otMe66Man 1 day ago
Terra Firma |
"Also much of the money they are pouring into the NHS and public sector wage rises will not lead to any improvement in outcomes or productivity, and we'll soon be told many more billions are needed.
They did't even try for improvements. When Rachel Reeves announced an extra £22.6bn for the NHS she said that it was for "day to day expenses".
Yes, senior managers have already said they need more money. "
They have and Wes Streeting has threatened to sack them if they don’t perform…. In an interview he was rather bitter sounding about their salaries and performance, they should hold tight and wait for an above inflation rise |
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By *ackal1Couple 23 hours ago
Manchester |
The working man whether he is low paid or well paid has not benefitted from tax avoidance schemes other than the odd sweetener like an ISA. They have paid their burden of tax constantly over the last four decades.
Would it not be fair for others who have been the recipients of many beneficial and more generous schemes to be asked to start paying their equal share?
Not sure what the problem is. |
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By *otMe66Man 20 hours ago
Terra Firma |
"The working man whether he is low paid or well paid has not benefitted from tax avoidance schemes other than the odd sweetener like an ISA. They have paid their burden of tax constantly over the last four decades.
Would it not be fair for others who have been the recipients of many beneficial and more generous schemes to be asked to start paying their equal share?
Not sure what the problem is. "
You have looked at the landscape in the same way as labour which we all know is wrong..
Where Labour gets it wrong is failing to recognise that self employed individuals or SME business owners are also working people. Running a business, being self employed involves risks that go far beyond those of PAYE employees. The tax arrangements available to them are not avoidance but a legal part of conducting business within the framework of the law |
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"They still live in the 1970s and look what Labour did then. Winter of discontent anyone?"
I think some naive people were expecting Blair Mk2 from this Government but most of the Cabinet including Starmer were Corbyn supporters. They are very left wing, hate private enterprises and are in hock to the Unions. |
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"The working man whether he is low paid or well paid has not benefitted from tax avoidance schemes other than the odd sweetener like an ISA. They have paid their burden of tax constantly over the last four decades.
Would it not be fair for others who have been the recipients of many beneficial and more generous schemes to be asked to start paying their equal share?
Not sure what the problem is.
You have looked at the landscape in the same way as labour which we all know is wrong..
Where Labour gets it wrong is failing to recognise that self employed individuals or SME business owners are also working people. Running a business, being self employed involves risks that go far beyond those of PAYE employees. The tax arrangements available to them are not avoidance but a legal part of conducting business within the framework of the law"
Since Thatcher the working person has changed so much. Look at micro business. Small hair dressers to the one man band traid person. The landscape of employment is now so varied it's hard to Tax all in a fair way. And as the working person gets smarter they avoid letting money in the way of tax going to such a place where its just wasted on. Benefits and the immigrants, and they next to nothing in return. |
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What did you expect? They are socialists, you didn’t expect them to reduce benefits and give tax breaks to the Rich did you?
If the wealth owners and creators are all driven away will end up like other failed common states, bread queues, 2-4 hours of electric per day, and all wearing drab grey one
-size garments I suppose, but at least we will all be equal…. |
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By *ackal1Couple 2 hours ago
Manchester |
"The working man whether he is low paid or well paid has not benefitted from tax avoidance schemes other than the odd sweetener like an ISA. They have paid their burden of tax constantly over the last four decades.
Would it not be fair for others who have been the recipients of many beneficial and more generous schemes to be asked to start paying their equal share?
Not sure what the problem is.
You have looked at the landscape in the same way as labour which we all know is wrong..
Where Labour gets it wrong is failing to recognise that self employed individuals or SME business owners are also working people. Running a business, being self employed involves risks that go far beyond those of PAYE employees. The tax arrangements available to them are not avoidance but a legal part of conducting business within the framework of the law"
I have run my own businesses since I was 19 years of age and employed hundreds of people over that time so please don’t assume I don’t understand how it works.
Farmers have been given special status for years and it stems back to farmers having big say in parliament due to a lot of MPs being farmers in the past.
Like all small family businesses they face pressure from bigger concerns
Sorry but that’s tough. Food security is irrelevant as we are no where near able to feed ourselves
The fact is they are still on a better tax rate than most along with all the same tools you mention to write off investments On top of which they receive subsidy because the actual business model doesn’t work.
So yes it’s hard . The smaller farms which are the biggest number are probably going to be exempt.
A huge swathe of our land is actually registered to overseas holding specifically designed to avoid tax so they will still be exempt.
All labour are targeting is the middle ground and until they can claw back the overseas registrations then its a bit of a weak policy.
Yet again the really wealthy will be able to avoid any issues. |
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By *ronisMan 2 hours ago
Edinburgh |
"
What happens when all the wealth owners and creators have been driven away or impoverished ? Who will pay the taxes then ? 🤷♂️
Then we will all be reliant on the state and compliant if we want to exist."
This.  |
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"The working man whether he is low paid or well paid has not benefitted from tax avoidance schemes other than the odd sweetener like an ISA. They have paid their burden of tax constantly over the last four decades.
Would it not be fair for others who have been the recipients of many beneficial and more generous schemes to be asked to start paying their equal share?
Not sure what the problem is.
You have looked at the landscape in the same way as labour which we all know is wrong..
Where Labour gets it wrong is failing to recognise that self employed individuals or SME business owners are also working people. Running a business, being self employed involves risks that go far beyond those of PAYE employees. The tax arrangements available to them are not avoidance but a legal part of conducting business within the framework of the law
I have run my own businesses since I was 19 years of age and employed hundreds of people over that time so please don’t assume I don’t understand how it works.
Farmers have been given special status for years and it stems back to farmers having big say in parliament due to a lot of MPs being farmers in the past.
Like all small family businesses they face pressure from bigger concerns
Sorry but that’s tough. Food security is irrelevant as we are no where near able to feed ourselves
The fact is they are still on a better tax rate than most along with all the same tools you mention to write off investments On top of which they receive subsidy because the actual business model doesn’t work.
So yes it’s hard . The smaller farms which are the biggest number are probably going to be exempt.
A huge swathe of our land is actually registered to overseas holding specifically designed to avoid tax so they will still be exempt.
All labour are targeting is the middle ground and until they can claw back the overseas registrations then its a bit of a weak policy.
Yet again the really wealthy will be able to avoid any issues. "
this ....
the question 'who will pay the taxes?' ... the same people who do now.
if those wealthy enough to currently avoid taxes are forced to start paying, only to then childishly threaten to take their ball home in a tantrum then what difference does it make? .... they pay no fucking tax anyway! let them go and allow creative innovative new people fill the void they've left instead. |
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By *ackal1Couple 59 minutes ago
Manchester |
"The working man whether he is low paid or well paid has not benefitted from tax avoidance schemes other than the odd sweetener like an ISA. They have paid their burden of tax constantly over the last four decades.
Would it not be fair for others who have been the recipients of many beneficial and more generous schemes to be asked to start paying their equal share?
Not sure what the problem is.
You have looked at the landscape in the same way as labour which we all know is wrong..
Where Labour gets it wrong is failing to recognise that self employed individuals or SME business owners are also working people. Running a business, being self employed involves risks that go far beyond those of PAYE employees. The tax arrangements available to them are not avoidance but a legal part of conducting business within the framework of the law
I have run my own businesses since I was 19 years of age and employed hundreds of people over that time so please don’t assume I don’t understand how it works.
Farmers have been given special status for years and it stems back to farmers having big say in parliament due to a lot of MPs being farmers in the past.
Like all small family businesses they face pressure from bigger concerns
Sorry but that’s tough. Food security is irrelevant as we are no where near able to feed ourselves
The fact is they are still on a better tax rate than most along with all the same tools you mention to write off investments On top of which they receive subsidy because the actual business model doesn’t work.
So yes it’s hard . The smaller farms which are the biggest number are probably going to be exempt.
A huge swathe of our land is actually registered to overseas holding specifically designed to avoid tax so they will still be exempt.
All labour are targeting is the middle ground and until they can claw back the overseas registrations then its a bit of a weak policy.
Yet again the really wealthy will be able to avoid any issues.
this ....
the question 'who will pay the taxes?' ... the same people who do now.
if those wealthy enough to currently avoid taxes are forced to start paying, only to then childishly threaten to take their ball home in a tantrum then what difference does it make? .... they pay no fucking tax anyway! let them go and allow creative innovative new people fill the void they've left instead. "
I suppose you could say they have to start somewhere.
But while the same wealthy they are targeting control large amounts of our media the stories will keep us fighting amongst ourselves. All the while the Uber rich just sit quietly smiling at the masses desperately trying to blame each other.
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"The working man whether he is low paid or well paid has not benefitted from tax avoidance schemes other than the odd sweetener like an ISA. They have paid their burden of tax constantly over the last four decades.
Would it not be fair for others who have been the recipients of many beneficial and more generous schemes to be asked to start paying their equal share?
Not sure what the problem is. "
I’m a working farmer who will get clobbered by the farm death tax. What’s not fair is having to pay 20% on a business asset that generate 0.5% on its overinflated asset value, it’s simply unpayable. It’s avoidable, like all inheritance tax if you give away your assets and live seven years. . death tax is not a tax of all the rich, just those who choose not to plan and a tax of upmost cruelty imposed upon modest families who’s loved one dies too early. Add to that now a tax upon elderly farmers whose best plans have been sledge hammered. This tax doesn’t just hit the super rich but multi generational family farms who live on a shoestring income, it’s a Marxist spiteful policy to punish a working class minority group who don’t vote red. This is the start of transferring our nations food production land into foreign owned corporates that pay no taxes here at all. The range in the farming community right now is explosive |
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By *oo hotCouple 49 minutes ago
North West |
"The working man whether he is low paid or well paid has not benefitted from tax avoidance schemes other than the odd sweetener like an ISA. They have paid their burden of tax constantly over the last four decades.
Would it not be fair for others who have been the recipients of many beneficial and more generous schemes to be asked to start paying their equal share?
Not sure what the problem is.
I’m a working farmer who will get clobbered by the farm death tax. What’s not fair is having to pay 20% on a business asset that generate 0.5% on its overinflated asset value, it’s simply unpayable. It’s avoidable, like all inheritance tax if you give away your assets and live seven years. . death tax is not a tax of all the rich, just those who choose not to plan and a tax of upmost cruelty imposed upon modest families who’s loved one dies too early. Add to that now a tax upon elderly farmers whose best plans have been sledge hammered. This tax doesn’t just hit the super rich but multi generational family farms who live on a shoestring income, it’s a Marxist spiteful policy to punish a working class minority group who don’t vote red. This is the start of transferring our nations food production land into foreign owned corporates that pay no taxes here at all. The range in the farming community right now is explosive "
If it affects multi-generational farmers, what did the generations before 1984 do when farmers were paying IHT?
I suspect they did what all wealthy individuals still do and that is use whole of life insurance policies to cover their liability.
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"The working man whether he is low paid or well paid has not benefitted from tax avoidance schemes other than the odd sweetener like an ISA. They have paid their burden of tax constantly over the last four decades.
Would it not be fair for others who have been the recipients of many beneficial and more generous schemes to be asked to start paying their equal share?
Not sure what the problem is.
You have looked at the landscape in the same way as labour which we all know is wrong..
Where Labour gets it wrong is failing to recognise that self employed individuals or SME business owners are also working people. Running a business, being self employed involves risks that go far beyond those of PAYE employees. The tax arrangements available to them are not avoidance but a legal part of conducting business within the framework of the law
I have run my own businesses since I was 19 years of age and employed hundreds of people over that time so please don’t assume I don’t understand how it works.
Farmers have been given special status for years and it stems back to farmers having big say in parliament due to a lot of MPs being farmers in the past.
Like all small family businesses they face pressure from bigger concerns
Sorry but that’s tough. Food security is irrelevant as we are no where near able to feed ourselves
The fact is they are still on a better tax rate than most along with all the same tools you mention to write off investments On top of which they receive subsidy because the actual business model doesn’t work.
So yes it’s hard . The smaller farms which are the biggest number are probably going to be exempt.
A huge swathe of our land is actually registered to overseas holding specifically designed to avoid tax so they will still be exempt.
All labour are targeting is the middle ground and until they can claw back the overseas registrations then its a bit of a weak policy.
Yet again the really wealthy will be able to avoid any issues.
this ....
the question 'who will pay the taxes?' ... the same people who do now.
if those wealthy enough to currently avoid taxes are forced to start paying, only to then childishly threaten to take their ball home in a tantrum then what difference does it make? .... they pay no fucking tax anyway! let them go and allow creative innovative new people fill the void they've left instead. "
You don’t see it do you . Small and medium farmers do pay taxes. Farm and businesses succession has long been exempt from death taxes, its necessary part of a stable economy. Farmers like myself simply can not pay 20% tax on land that due to valuation reasoning unconnected to farming, is based on an inflated asset value that generates less than 1% return a year. Farms like ours will be forced to sell… the less productive land will end up in unproductive resulting and pony paddocks for the middle class, the productive land intt to o corporations that pay no UK taxes. Long term this spiteful Marxist policy reduces tax revenues and greatly endangers our nation food security. Farmers are not trying to avoid tax but surely anyone should be able to pass down a home, a business or a 4th generation family farm with such a heavy tax liability that is simply unviable. If my primary motivation was to avoid death taxes I would sell up tomorrow and take my ball out of this communist country. |
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"The working man whether he is low paid or well paid has not benefitted from tax avoidance schemes other than the odd sweetener like an ISA. They have paid their burden of tax constantly over the last four decades.
Would it not be fair for others who have been the recipients of many beneficial and more generous schemes to be asked to start paying their equal share?
Not sure what the problem is.
I’m a working farmer who will get clobbered by the farm death tax. What’s not fair is having to pay 20% on a business asset that generate 0.5% on its overinflated asset value, it’s simply unpayable. It’s avoidable, like all inheritance tax if you give away your assets and live seven years. . death tax is not a tax of all the rich, just those who choose not to plan and a tax of upmost cruelty imposed upon modest families who’s loved one dies too early. Add to that now a tax upon elderly farmers whose best plans have been sledge hammered. This tax doesn’t just hit the super rich but multi generational family farms who live on a shoestring income, it’s a Marxist spiteful policy to punish a working class minority group who don’t vote red. This is the start of transferring our nations food production land into foreign owned corporates that pay no taxes here at all. The range in the farming community right now is explosive
If it affects multi-generational farmers, what did the generations before 1984 do when farmers were paying IHT?
I suspect they did what all wealthy individuals still do and that is use whole of life insurance policies to cover their liability.
"
Land price was more in line with farm incomes.. paying 40% tax on an asset generating 10% return is a lot more feasible than paying 20% tax on an asset generating 0.5% return….
Life insurance is an option but for the sums involved it’s not a cheap one.. all makes lots of money for those nice big fancy pants office blocks in London… and the premiums are taxed 12.5%. |
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"The working man whether he is low paid or well paid has not benefitted from tax avoidance schemes other than the odd sweetener like an ISA. They have paid their burden of tax constantly over the last four decades.
Would it not be fair for others who have been the recipients of many beneficial and more generous schemes to be asked to start paying their equal share?
Not sure what the problem is.
You have looked at the landscape in the same way as labour which we all know is wrong..
Where Labour gets it wrong is failing to recognise that self employed individuals or SME business owners are also working people. Running a business, being self employed involves risks that go far beyond those of PAYE employees. The tax arrangements available to them are not avoidance but a legal part of conducting business within the framework of the law
I have run my own businesses since I was 19 years of age and employed hundreds of people over that time so please don’t assume I don’t understand how it works.
Farmers have been given special status for years and it stems back to farmers having big say in parliament due to a lot of MPs being farmers in the past.
Like all small family businesses they face pressure from bigger concerns
Sorry but that’s tough. Food security is irrelevant as we are no where near able to feed ourselves
The fact is they are still on a better tax rate than most along with all the same tools you mention to write off investments On top of which they receive subsidy because the actual business model doesn’t work.
So yes it’s hard . The smaller farms which are the biggest number are probably going to be exempt.
A huge swathe of our land is actually registered to overseas holding specifically designed to avoid tax so they will still be exempt.
All labour are targeting is the middle ground and until they can claw back the overseas registrations then its a bit of a weak policy.
Yet again the really wealthy will be able to avoid any issues.
this ....
the question 'who will pay the taxes?' ... the same people who do now.
if those wealthy enough to currently avoid taxes are forced to start paying, only to then childishly threaten to take their ball home in a tantrum then what difference does it make? .... they pay no fucking tax anyway! let them go and allow creative innovative new people fill the void they've left instead.
You don’t see it do you . Small and medium farmers do pay taxes. Farm and businesses succession has long been exempt from death taxes, its necessary part of a stable economy. Farmers like myself simply can not pay 20% tax on land that due to valuation reasoning unconnected to farming, is based on an inflated asset value that generates less than 1% return a year. Farms like ours will be forced to sell… the less productive land will end up in unproductive resulting and pony paddocks for the middle class, the productive land intt to o corporations that pay no UK taxes. Long term this spiteful Marxist policy reduces tax revenues and greatly endangers our nation food security. Farmers are not trying to avoid tax but surely anyone should be able to pass down a home, a business or a 4th generation family farm with such a heavy tax liability that is simply unviable. If my primary motivation was to avoid death taxes I would sell up tomorrow and take my ball out of this communist country."
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