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Another U turn ;(
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"It is becoming clear Starmer has a strategy of promising policies and then reversing out once they have got him to where he wants to be.
"
Sign of a good politician, it worked well for the tories for 14 years |
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"It is becoming clear Starmer has a strategy of promising policies and then reversing out once they have got him to where he wants to be.
"
I'm not that familiar with the Labour manifesto so did they specifically rule out increases to the fees or was it worded to not actually mean anything solid |
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By *otMe66Man 3 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
"It is becoming clear Starmer has a strategy of promising policies and then reversing out once they have got him to where he wants to be.
I'm not that familiar with the Labour manifesto so did they specifically rule out increases to the fees or was it worded to not actually mean anything solid"
He said he would remove student tuition fees when he was running for labour leader in 2020. |
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"It is becoming clear Starmer has a strategy of promising policies and then reversing out once they have got him to where he wants to be.
I'm not that familiar with the Labour manifesto so did they specifically rule out increases to the fees or was it worded to not actually mean anything solid
He said he would remove student tuition fees when he was running for labour leader in 2020."
Thank you. I can see how it looks bad on SKS but more to his own party as it was the party leadership he was contesting and basically doing the opposite to what he told them. Breaking of a manifesto though I doubt would stick unless he repeated those view during the GE run up |
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"It is becoming clear Starmer has a strategy of promising policies and then reversing out once they have got him to where he wants to be.
I'm not that familiar with the Labour manifesto so did they specifically rule out increases to the fees or was it worded to not actually mean anything solid
He said he would remove student tuition fees when he was running for labour leader in 2020."
Apparently the country’s economy took a hit after 2020 according to the last government. |
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By *otMe66Man 3 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
"It is becoming clear Starmer has a strategy of promising policies and then reversing out once they have got him to where he wants to be.
I'm not that familiar with the Labour manifesto so did they specifically rule out increases to the fees or was it worded to not actually mean anything solid
He said he would remove student tuition fees when he was running for labour leader in 2020.
Apparently the country’s economy took a hit after 2020 according to the last government."
It did yes, but it didn't stop Labour spending billions on above inflation pay rises for junior doctors and others in the public sector. |
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"It is becoming clear Starmer has a strategy of promising policies and then reversing out once they have got him to where he wants to be.
I'm not that familiar with the Labour manifesto so did they specifically rule out increases to the fees or was it worded to not actually mean anything solid
He said he would remove student tuition fees when he was running for labour leader in 2020.
Apparently the country’s economy took a hit after 2020 according to the last government.
It did yes, but it didn't stop Labour spending billions on above inflation pay rises for junior doctors and others in the public sector."
How much were the strikes costing the country?
My son is a junior doctor, my daughter works in recruitment even she says it’s ridiculous that she earns more than her brother does. |
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By *otMe66Man 3 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
"It is becoming clear Starmer has a strategy of promising policies and then reversing out once they have got him to where he wants to be.
I'm not that familiar with the Labour manifesto so did they specifically rule out increases to the fees or was it worded to not actually mean anything solid
He said he would remove student tuition fees when he was running for labour leader in 2020.
Apparently the country’s economy took a hit after 2020 according to the last government.
It did yes, but it didn't stop Labour spending billions on above inflation pay rises for junior doctors and others in the public sector.
How much were the strikes costing the country?
My son is a junior doctor, my daughter works in recruitment even she says it’s ridiculous that she earns more than her brother does."
Not as much as it cost to pay them off. |
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"It is becoming clear Starmer has a strategy of promising policies and then reversing out once they have got him to where he wants to be.
I'm not that familiar with the Labour manifesto so did they specifically rule out increases to the fees or was it worded to not actually mean anything solid
He said he would remove student tuition fees when he was running for labour leader in 2020.
Apparently the country’s economy took a hit after 2020 according to the last government.
It did yes, but it didn't stop Labour spending billions on above inflation pay rises for junior doctors and others in the public sector.
How much were the strikes costing the country?
My son is a junior doctor, my daughter works in recruitment even she says it’s ridiculous that she earns more than her brother does."
recruitment is ridiculous pay tbh with the bonus schemes and incentives wifes a nurse and i dig dirt for a living and earn more than she ever could its all wrong |
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"It is becoming clear Starmer has a strategy of promising policies and then reversing out once they have got him to where he wants to be.
I'm not that familiar with the Labour manifesto so did they specifically rule out increases to the fees or was it worded to not actually mean anything solid
He said he would remove student tuition fees when he was running for labour leader in 2020."
He said he wouldn’t.
Keir Starmer’s Labour Party is set to raise tuition fees to £10,500 per year. Yet, in 2020, Starmer spoke of how they cost too much for working class people:
|
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"It is becoming clear Starmer has a strategy of promising policies and then reversing out once they have got him to where he wants to be.
I'm not that familiar with the Labour manifesto so did they specifically rule out increases to the fees or was it worded to not actually mean anything solid
He said he would remove student tuition fees when he was running for labour leader in 2020.
He said he wouldn’t.
Keir Starmer’s Labour Party is set to raise tuition fees to £10,500 per year. Yet, in 2020, Starmer spoke of how they cost too much for working class people:
"
but they only start gwtting it back once a threshold is met so whats the point?most never pay any at all Why not set it at say £2500 paid upfront? |
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"It is becoming clear Starmer has a strategy of promising policies and then reversing out once they have got him to where he wants to be.
I'm not that familiar with the Labour manifesto so did they specifically rule out increases to the fees or was it worded to not actually mean anything solid
He said he would remove student tuition fees when he was running for labour leader in 2020.
He said he wouldn’t.
Keir Starmer’s Labour Party is set to raise tuition fees to £10,500 per year. Yet, in 2020, Starmer spoke of how they cost too much for working class people:
but they only start gwtting it back once a threshold is met so whats the point?most never pay any at all Why not set it at say £2500 paid upfront? "
Yes well if you get a job in the degree you’re studying most will be paying the fee straight away. Not everyone wants to work in McDonalds. The main ethos of any socialist party should be free or affordable education for everyone. |
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"It is becoming clear Starmer has a strategy of promising policies and then reversing out once they have got him to where he wants to be.
I'm not that familiar with the Labour manifesto so did they specifically rule out increases to the fees or was it worded to not actually mean anything solid
He said he would remove student tuition fees when he was running for labour leader in 2020.
He said he wouldn’t.
Keir Starmer’s Labour Party is set to raise tuition fees to £10,500 per year. Yet, in 2020, Starmer spoke of how they cost too much for working class people:
but they only start gwtting it back once a threshold is met so whats the point?most never pay any at all Why not set it at say £2500 paid upfront? "
Have you seen the interest rate on student loans?
Kier starmer-“my father was a toolmaker”. That’s the only truth the tool has ever said! |
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By *exyusMan 3 weeks ago
halifax |
"It is becoming clear Starmer has a strategy of promising policies and then reversing out once they have got him to where he wants to be.
I'm not that familiar with the Labour manifesto so did they specifically rule out increases to the fees or was it worded to not actually mean anything solid
He said he would remove student tuition fees when he was running for labour leader in 2020.
Apparently the country’s economy took a hit after 2020 according to the last government.
It did yes, but it didn't stop Labour spending billions on above inflation pay rises for junior doctors and others in the public sector.
How much were the strikes costing the country?
My son is a junior doctor, my daughter works in recruitment even she says it’s ridiculous that she earns more than her brother does."
Been a junior doctor is like serving an apprenticeship and at the end they get a very good salary and an even better gold plated pension |
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"It is becoming clear Starmer has a strategy of promising policies and then reversing out once they have got him to where he wants to be.
I'm not that familiar with the Labour manifesto so did they specifically rule out increases to the fees or was it worded to not actually mean anything solid
He said he would remove student tuition fees when he was running for labour leader in 2020.
Apparently the country’s economy took a hit after 2020 according to the last government.
It did yes, but it didn't stop Labour spending billions on above inflation pay rises for junior doctors and others in the public sector."
They got the pat raises they deserved, the public will be happy, that is why labour got elected |
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"It is becoming clear Starmer has a strategy of promising policies and then reversing out once they have got him to where he wants to be.
I'm not that familiar with the Labour manifesto so did they specifically rule out increases to the fees or was it worded to not actually mean anything solid
He said he would remove student tuition fees when he was running for labour leader in 2020.
He said he wouldn’t.
Keir Starmer’s Labour Party is set to raise tuition fees to £10,500 per year. Yet, in 2020, Starmer spoke of how they cost too much for working class people:
but they only start gwtting it back once a threshold is met so whats the point?most never pay any at all Why not set it at say £2500 paid upfront?
Yes well if you get a job in the degree you’re studying most will be paying the fee straight away. Not everyone wants to work in McDonalds. The main ethos of any socialist party should be free or affordable education for everyone. "
I was recently in Lisbon talking to a guy in a bar. He was explaining their taxes. They have a progressive system ranging from 13% on low earners to 48% on earnings over 80 thousand.
Their students pay 1000 a year tuition fees.
Choices I guess. |
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"It is becoming clear Starmer has a strategy of promising policies and then reversing out once they have got him to where he wants to be.
I'm not that familiar with the Labour manifesto so did they specifically rule out increases to the fees or was it worded to not actually mean anything solid
He said he would remove student tuition fees when he was running for labour leader in 2020.
Apparently the country’s economy took a hit after 2020 according to the last government.
It did yes, but it didn't stop Labour spending billions on above inflation pay rises for junior doctors and others in the public sector.
How much were the strikes costing the country?
My son is a junior doctor, my daughter works in recruitment even she says it’s ridiculous that she earns more than her brother does.
Been a junior doctor is like serving an apprenticeship and at the end they get a very good salary and an even better gold plated pension "
It’s nothing like being an apprentice. |
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"It is becoming clear Starmer has a strategy of promising policies and then reversing out once they have got him to where he wants to be.
I'm not that familiar with the Labour manifesto so did they specifically rule out increases to the fees or was it worded to not actually mean anything solid
He said he would remove student tuition fees when he was running for labour leader in 2020.
Apparently the country’s economy took a hit after 2020 according to the last government.
It did yes, but it didn't stop Labour spending billions on above inflation pay rises for junior doctors and others in the public sector.
How much were the strikes costing the country?
My son is a junior doctor, my daughter works in recruitment even she says it’s ridiculous that she earns more than her brother does.
Been a junior doctor is like serving an apprenticeship and at the end they get a very good salary and an even better gold plated pension
It’s nothing like being an apprentice."
underpaid while you master your trade with experience?? Very similar description |
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"It is becoming clear Starmer has a strategy of promising policies and then reversing out once they have got him to where he wants to be.
I'm not that familiar with the Labour manifesto so did they specifically rule out increases to the fees or was it worded to not actually mean anything solid
He said he would remove student tuition fees when he was running for labour leader in 2020.
Apparently the country’s economy took a hit after 2020 according to the last government.
It did yes, but it didn't stop Labour spending billions on above inflation pay rises for junior doctors and others in the public sector.
How much were the strikes costing the country?
My son is a junior doctor, my daughter works in recruitment even she says it’s ridiculous that she earns more than her brother does.
Been a junior doctor is like serving an apprenticeship and at the end they get a very good salary and an even better gold plated pension
It’s nothing like being an apprentice.underpaid while you master your trade with experience?? Very similar description"
lol just underpaid for longer. Anyway they are called resident doctors now. |
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"It is becoming clear Starmer has a strategy of promising policies and then reversing out once they have got him to where he wants to be.
I'm not that familiar with the Labour manifesto so did they specifically rule out increases to the fees or was it worded to not actually mean anything solid
He said he would remove student tuition fees when he was running for labour leader in 2020."
Which was ages ago. He actually said he couldn't rule this out before they came into power. It's old news and as such is a non story, Mrs x |
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"It is becoming clear Starmer has a strategy of promising policies and then reversing out once they have got him to where he wants to be.
I'm not that familiar with the Labour manifesto so did they specifically rule out increases to the fees or was it worded to not actually mean anything solid
He said he would remove student tuition fees when he was running for labour leader in 2020.
Apparently the country’s economy took a hit after 2020 according to the last government.
It did yes, but it didn't stop Labour spending billions on above inflation pay rises for junior doctors and others in the public sector."
You forgot to say '9 Billion, you are slipping, Mrs x |
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"It is becoming clear Starmer has a strategy of promising policies and then reversing out once they have got him to where he wants to be.
I'm not that familiar with the Labour manifesto so did they specifically rule out increases to the fees or was it worded to not actually mean anything solid
He said he would remove student tuition fees when he was running for labour leader in 2020.
Apparently the country’s economy took a hit after 2020 according to the last government.
It did yes, but it didn't stop Labour spending billions on above inflation pay rises for junior doctors and others in the public sector.
How much were the strikes costing the country?
My son is a junior doctor, my daughter works in recruitment even she says it’s ridiculous that she earns more than her brother does.
Been a junior doctor is like serving an apprenticeship and at the end they get a very good salary and an even better gold plated pension
It’s nothing like being an apprentice.underpaid while you master your trade with experience?? Very similar description
lol just underpaid for longer. Anyway they are called resident doctors now. "
and in most nurses opinions a junior doctor is fairly useless untill time served and from what the wife told me only spend 6 months in each area of healthcare building up general knowledge before moving onto a new department so should they be paid a full doctors wage until theyve gained the revelant experience??? Architects are in the exact same scenario and they arent playing with people's health |
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"It is becoming clear Starmer has a strategy of promising policies and then reversing out once they have got him to where he wants to be.
I'm not that familiar with the Labour manifesto so did they specifically rule out increases to the fees or was it worded to not actually mean anything solid
He said he would remove student tuition fees when he was running for labour leader in 2020.
He said he wouldn’t.
Keir Starmer’s Labour Party is set to raise tuition fees to £10,500 per year. Yet, in 2020, Starmer spoke of how they cost too much for working class people:
"
He said he'd have to abandon a promise he made over 4 years ago, and he said this over 12 months ago, well before coming into power.
Wish you lot would keep up and stop dredging up old news just to bash Labour. Bit silly really haha, and the raise is £250, from £9,250 to £9,500 but don't let the truth get in the way of your story,
Mrs x |
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"It is becoming clear Starmer has a strategy of promising policies and then reversing out once they have got him to where he wants to be.
I'm not that familiar with the Labour manifesto so did they specifically rule out increases to the fees or was it worded to not actually mean anything solid
He said he would remove student tuition fees when he was running for labour leader in 2020.
Apparently the country’s economy took a hit after 2020 according to the last government.
It did yes, but it didn't stop Labour spending billions on above inflation pay rises for junior doctors and others in the public sector.
How much were the strikes costing the country?
My son is a junior doctor, my daughter works in recruitment even she says it’s ridiculous that she earns more than her brother does.
Been a junior doctor is like serving an apprenticeship and at the end they get a very good salary and an even better gold plated pension
It’s nothing like being an apprentice.underpaid while you master your trade with experience?? Very similar description
lol just underpaid for longer. Anyway they are called resident doctors now. and in most nurses opinions a junior doctor is fairly useless untill time served and from what the wife told me only spend 6 months in each area of healthcare building up general knowledge before moving onto a new department so should they be paid a full doctors wage until theyve gained the revelant experience??? Architects are in the exact same scenario and they arent playing with people's health "
I’ve heard it said that nurses just stand around drinking tea, I’ve always said that’s rubbish as well. They weren’t and still won’t be paid what you call a full doctors wage but what they were being paid was ridiculous. |
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"It is becoming clear Starmer has a strategy of promising policies and then reversing out once they have got him to where he wants to be.
I'm not that familiar with the Labour manifesto so did they specifically rule out increases to the fees or was it worded to not actually mean anything solid
He said he would remove student tuition fees when he was running for labour leader in 2020.
Apparently the country’s economy took a hit after 2020 according to the last government.
It did yes, but it didn't stop Labour spending billions on above inflation pay rises for junior doctors and others in the public sector.
How much were the strikes costing the country?
My son is a junior doctor, my daughter works in recruitment even she says it’s ridiculous that she earns more than her brother does.
Been a junior doctor is like serving an apprenticeship and at the end they get a very good salary and an even better gold plated pension
It’s nothing like being an apprentice.underpaid while you master your trade with experience?? Very similar description
lol just underpaid for longer. Anyway they are called resident doctors now. and in most nurses opinions a junior doctor is fairly useless untill time served and from what the wife told me only spend 6 months in each area of healthcare building up general knowledge before moving onto a new department so should they be paid a full doctors wage until theyve gained the revelant experience??? Architects are in the exact same scenario and they arent playing with people's health
I’ve heard it said that nurses just stand around drinking tea, I’ve always said that’s rubbish as well. They weren’t and still won’t be paid what you call a full doctors wage but what they were being paid was ridiculous."
yep its silly, do well at school be a doctor or a nurse they say lol |
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"It is becoming clear Starmer has a strategy of promising policies and then reversing out once they have got him to where he wants to be.
I'm not that familiar with the Labour manifesto so did they specifically rule out increases to the fees or was it worded to not actually mean anything solid
He said he would remove student tuition fees when he was running for labour leader in 2020.
Apparently the country’s economy took a hit after 2020 according to the last government.
It did yes, but it didn't stop Labour spending billions on above inflation pay rises for junior doctors and others in the public sector.
They got the pat raises they deserved, the public will be happy, that is why labour got elected "
Until the Labour bankrupt the economy like they also do! |
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"It is becoming clear Starmer has a strategy of promising policies and then reversing out once they have got him to where he wants to be.
I'm not that familiar with the Labour manifesto so did they specifically rule out increases to the fees or was it worded to not actually mean anything solid
He said he would remove student tuition fees when he was running for labour leader in 2020.
Apparently the country’s economy took a hit after 2020 according to the last government.
It did yes, but it didn't stop Labour spending billions on above inflation pay rises for junior doctors and others in the public sector.
They got the pat raises they deserved, the public will be happy, that is why labour got elected
Until the Labour bankrupt the economy like they also do!"
Again just not true. Every Labour government, since WW2 has borrowed less and repaid more than the Tories. Under Blair & Brown the country enjoyed its longest continuous period of growth ever but once again don't let the truth get in the way of a good story, it's getting daft now,
Mrs x |
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"Every Labour government, since WW2 has borrowed less and repaid more than the Tories."
Only according to one man, who refuses to show his workings to anyone. A man that, by chance, was asking for a position in the new Labour cabinet. |
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"Every Labour government, since WW2 has borrowed less and repaid more than the Tories.
Only according to one man, who refuses to show his workings to anyone. A man that, by chance, was asking for a position in the new Labour cabinet."
Aee you referring to Richard Murphy?
Mrs x |
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By *otMe66Man 3 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
"It is becoming clear Starmer has a strategy of promising policies and then reversing out once they have got him to where he wants to be.
I'm not that familiar with the Labour manifesto so did they specifically rule out increases to the fees or was it worded to not actually mean anything solid
He said he would remove student tuition fees when he was running for labour leader in 2020.Which was ages ago. He actually said he couldn't rule this out before they came into power. It's old news and as such is a non story, Mrs x"
The fact that it happened a long time ago actually strengthens my point! It highlights a consistent pattern of promising one thing and delivering the opposite once he’s achieved his goal. Would you argue that isn't the case? |
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"Every Labour government, since WW2 has borrowed less and repaid more than the Tories.
Only according to one man, who refuses to show his workings to anyone. A man that, by chance, was asking for a position in the new Labour cabinet.Aee you referring to Richard Murphy?
Mrs x"
It's cannot be him because he has a large body of work published as an economist and accountant. The guy is a professor at Sheffield and has his workings on this matted published on his website.
Also if it's just one guy, how do you account for others saying the same thing, such as the political commentator James Melville...
'Since World War Two, Conservative Governments have borrowed £24.3 billion a year on average in historic prices – compared to Labour Governments, which have borrowed £18.8 billion a year on average (and that includes the spike in borrowing over the financial crisis in 2008-2009).'
That's two that have said this and these figures are based upon Government figures.
So Tories borrow more and repay less.
Mrs x |
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"It is becoming clear Starmer has a strategy of promising policies and then reversing out once they have got him to where he wants to be.
I'm not that familiar with the Labour manifesto so did they specifically rule out increases to the fees or was it worded to not actually mean anything solid
He said he would remove student tuition fees when he was running for labour leader in 2020.Which was ages ago. He actually said he couldn't rule this out before they came into power. It's old news and as such is a non story, Mrs x
The fact that it happened a long time ago actually strengthens my point! It highlights a consistent pattern of promising one thing and delivering the opposite once he’s achieved his goal. Would you argue that isn't the case?"
I'd argue that people say one thing at a point in time, only to find that circumstances have changed so that that is not possible now.
This happens all the time and is a reasonable thing to do.
It's old news, keep up.
Mrs x |
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By *otMe66Man 3 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
"It is becoming clear Starmer has a strategy of promising policies and then reversing out once they have got him to where he wants to be.
I'm not that familiar with the Labour manifesto so did they specifically rule out increases to the fees or was it worded to not actually mean anything solid
He said he would remove student tuition fees when he was running for labour leader in 2020.Which was ages ago. He actually said he couldn't rule this out before they came into power. It's old news and as such is a non story, Mrs x
The fact that it happened a long time ago actually strengthens my point! It highlights a consistent pattern of promising one thing and delivering the opposite once he’s achieved his goal. Would you argue that isn't the case?I'd argue that people say one thing at a point in time, only to find that circumstances have changed so that that is not possible now.
This happens all the time and is a reasonable thing to do.
It's old news, keep up.
Mrs x"
It is a reasonable thing to consistently promise one thing and deliver the opposite?
You do know he has followed this path over the time of being PM and before then, hence the connection of a pattern.
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"Every Labour government, since WW2 has borrowed less and repaid more than the Tories."
"Only according to one man, who refuses to show his workings to anyone. A man that, by chance, was asking for a position in the new Labour cabinet."
"Aee you referring to Richard Murphy?
It's cannot be him because he has a large body of work published as an economist and accountant. The guy is a professor at Sheffield and has his workings on this matted published on his website.
Also if it's just one guy, how do you account for others saying the same thing, such as the political commentator James Melville...
'Since World War Two, Conservative Governments have borrowed £24.3 billion a year on average in historic prices – compared to Labour Governments, which have borrowed £18.8 billion a year on average (and that includes the spike in borrowing over the financial crisis in 2008-2009).'
That's two that have said this and these figures are based upon Government figures.
So Tories borrow more and repay less."
Richard Murphy does have an enormous body of work - all self published on his website. Pretty much none of it ever gives the background data on which he bases his conclusions. In this particular case he has been asked by several people to supply the data he used to make that assertion, and he refuses every time.
He is a professor at Sheffield, but he's "Professor of Accounting Practice". I don't doubt his abilities as an accountant, but he has no qualifications as an economist. On his own website he describes himself as a "political economist", and he is clearly driven more by politics than by economic principles.
Yes, other people repeat what he's said, but if you ask them, it always comes back to Richard Murphy as the source. |
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"It is becoming clear Starmer has a strategy of promising policies and then reversing out once they have got him to where he wants to be.
I'm not that familiar with the Labour manifesto so did they specifically rule out increases to the fees or was it worded to not actually mean anything solid
He said he would remove student tuition fees when he was running for labour leader in 2020.
Apparently the country’s economy took a hit after 2020 according to the last government.
It did yes, but it didn't stop Labour spending billions on above inflation pay rises for junior doctors and others in the public sector.
They got the pat raises they deserved, the public will be happy, that is why labour got elected
Until the Labour bankrupt the economy like they also do!Again just not true. Every Labour government, since WW2 has borrowed less and repaid more than the Tories. Under Blair & Brown the country enjoyed its longest continuous period of growth ever but once again don't let the truth get in the way of a good story, it's getting daft now,
Mrs x"
Is this the same G Brown that sold of the UK family Jewellery?? ie the UK gold reserves???
Mmm I wonder? |
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Why am I not surprised that he has raised tuition fees. Let’s not forget; it was Labour that introduced them in the first place.
And I guess someone needs to pay the mega 6 figure salaries (check the numbers out!!!) for the Vice Chancellor’s at each indoctrination centre/uni…. |
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"Why am I not surprised that he has raised tuition fees. Let’s not forget; it was Labour that introduced them in the first place.
And I guess someone needs to pay the mega 6 figure salaries (check the numbers out!!!) for the Vice Chancellor’s at each indoctrination centre/uni…."
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" each indoctrination centre/uni…."
Just to pick this up. It's been mentioned several times on here that learning about a topic, being educated and having an understanding about how the world around us works is "indoctrination".
Such an alarming attitude. No wonder people vote for ever increasingly self serving governments. Not just here, around the globe.
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" each indoctrination centre/uni….
Just to pick this up. It's been mentioned several times on here that learning about a topic, being educated and having an understanding about how the world around us works is "indoctrination".
Such an alarming attitude. No wonder people vote for ever increasingly self serving governments. Not just here, around the globe.
"
Heaven forbid that the youth are educated to see through some of the nonsense that some people spout. |
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From Martin Lewis.
1. Higher tuition fees WON'T change what most pay each year. For most, they're paid for you by the student loans company and you repay afterwards only if you earn over the threshold. The amount you repay each year (9% over the threshold) solely depends on what you earn not on what you borrow.
2. Increasing tuition fees will only see those who clear the loan in full over the 40yrs pay more. That is generally mid-high to higher earning university leavers only, so the cost of increasing them will generally be born by the more affluent. Most lower and middle earning university leavers will simply pay 9% extra tax above the threshold for 40yrs (and higher tuition fees won't change that)
3. The rise is tuition fees is likely to be trivial compared to the changes the last govt made for 2023 starters. 2023 starters had their repayment thresholds dropped to £25,000 (from £27,295/yr) and had the time they had to keep repaying for (unless cleared) extended to 40years from 30years.
So these higher annual repayments for longer, increased by over 50% the amount many graduates will eventually have to pay back for going to university. Yet they were almost stealth changes because people can't intuitively feel the seismic impact.
Changing tuition fees is a more obvious rise, but in reality has far less of an impact on the amount most will repay (though combined with the 2023 changes it does certainly up the cost).
4. The biggest practical problem for students isn't tuition fees (even if raised) its the fact maintenance loans aren't big enough. English maintenance loans have not kept pace with inflation. I'd urge the govt to couple the tuition fee loans with bigger living loans - if not it is a real risk to social mobility, with those from the poorest backgrounds likely to be worse affected. |
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By *otMe66Man 3 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
I'm not replying with a quote or it will get to long, this is in reply to the Martin Lewis comments:
I’m not convinced he captures the full picture. Student loans arrive from government funding, which is weighted against gilt financing. With gilt yields rising following the recent budget, the need to bridge a £35 billion gap in their "raise to spend" (raising £40 billion but spending £75 billion) it means the cost of raising these loans has also increased and will increase further in 2 years if the forecasts are correct.
Repayment on student loans is aligned to the RPI, not gilt yields. This creates a financial difference in repayment, students repay at a lower interest rate tied to inflation, while the government pay a higher interest rate from the rising gilt yields. With tuition fees going up, the government outlay grows meaning the debt increases further.
The government do not publicly seem concerned about this potential debt, mainly because the financial risk is on future taxpayers.
Having said that, if gilt yields fall and RPI is higher, the rate of interest being recouped is in favour of the government.
Personally I'm not convinced that is going to happen down to spending more than raising. |
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"It is becoming clear Starmer has a strategy of promising policies and then reversing out once they have got him to where he wants to be.
I'm not that familiar with the Labour manifesto so did they specifically rule out increases to the fees or was it worded to not actually mean anything solid
He said he would remove student tuition fees when he was running for labour leader in 2020.
Apparently the country’s economy took a hit after 2020 according to the last government.
It did yes, but it didn't stop Labour spending billions on above inflation pay rises for junior doctors and others in the public sector.
How much were the strikes costing the country?
My son is a junior doctor, my daughter works in recruitment even she says it’s ridiculous that she earns more than her brother does.
Been a junior doctor is like serving an apprenticeship and at the end they get a very good salary and an even better gold plated pension
It’s nothing like being an apprentice.underpaid while you master your trade with experience?? Very similar description"
Agreed. Same in most professions, particularly law. |
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"It is becoming clear Starmer has a strategy of promising policies and then reversing out once they have got him to where he wants to be.
I'm not that familiar with the Labour manifesto so did they specifically rule out increases to the fees or was it worded to not actually mean anything solid
He said he would remove student tuition fees when he was running for labour leader in 2020.
Apparently the country’s economy took a hit after 2020 according to the last government.
It did yes, but it didn't stop Labour spending billions on above inflation pay rises for junior doctors and others in the public sector.
How much were the strikes costing the country?
My son is a junior doctor, my daughter works in recruitment even she says it’s ridiculous that she earns more than her brother does.
Been a junior doctor is like serving an apprenticeship and at the end they get a very good salary and an even better gold plated pension
It’s nothing like being an apprentice.underpaid while you master your trade with experience?? Very similar description
Agreed. Same in most professions, particularly law. "
and totally acceptable too, who deserves top money straight after qualifying |
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"It is becoming clear Starmer has a strategy of promising policies and then reversing out once they have got him to where he wants to be.
I'm not that familiar with the Labour manifesto so did they specifically rule out increases to the fees or was it worded to not actually mean anything solid
He said he would remove student tuition fees when he was running for labour leader in 2020.
Apparently the country’s economy took a hit after 2020 according to the last government.
It did yes, but it didn't stop Labour spending billions on above inflation pay rises for junior doctors and others in the public sector.
How much were the strikes costing the country?
My son is a junior doctor, my daughter works in recruitment even she says it’s ridiculous that she earns more than her brother does.
Been a junior doctor is like serving an apprenticeship and at the end they get a very good salary and an even better gold plated pension
It’s nothing like being an apprentice.underpaid while you master your trade with experience?? Very similar description
Agreed. Same in most professions, particularly law. and totally acceptable too, who deserves top money straight after qualifying "
I’m talking about before qualifying, being very poorly paid for several years.
I’m not sure it’s a good thing, as it means that the only people who pursue some of these career paths are those who can afford to do so.
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Why are people shocked that Labour made another U-turn about Tuition fees? It's not a surprising anymore just like when before and during the election when they said that they had no plans to raise any taxes apart from the ones they already mentioned they wouldn't raise to then announce raising taxes days later after winning the election |
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"It is becoming clear Starmer has a strategy of promising policies and then reversing out once they have got him to where he wants to be.
I'm not that familiar with the Labour manifesto so did they specifically rule out increases to the fees or was it worded to not actually mean anything solid
He said he would remove student tuition fees when he was running for labour leader in 2020.
Apparently the country’s economy took a hit after 2020 according to the last government.
It did yes, but it didn't stop Labour spending billions on above inflation pay rises for junior doctors and others in the public sector.
How much were the strikes costing the country?
My son is a junior doctor, my daughter works in recruitment even she says it’s ridiculous that she earns more than her brother does.
Been a junior doctor is like serving an apprenticeship and at the end they get a very good salary and an even better gold plated pension
It’s nothing like being an apprentice.underpaid while you master your trade with experience?? Very similar description
Agreed. Same in most professions, particularly law. and totally acceptable too, who deserves top money straight after qualifying
I’m talking about before qualifying, being very poorly paid for several years.
I’m not sure it’s a good thing, as it means that the only people who pursue some of these career paths are those who can afford to do so.
"
and what kind of salary are they on before qualifying, im guessing you mean the years as a junior doctor? |
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"It is becoming clear Starmer has a strategy of promising policies and then reversing out once they have got him to where he wants to be.
I'm not that familiar with the Labour manifesto so did they specifically rule out increases to the fees or was it worded to not actually mean anything solid
He said he would remove student tuition fees when he was running for labour leader in 2020.
Apparently the country’s economy took a hit after 2020 according to the last government.
It did yes, but it didn't stop Labour spending billions on above inflation pay rises for junior doctors and others in the public sector.
How much were the strikes costing the country?
My son is a junior doctor, my daughter works in recruitment even she says it’s ridiculous that she earns more than her brother does.
Been a junior doctor is like serving an apprenticeship and at the end they get a very good salary and an even better gold plated pension
It’s nothing like being an apprentice.underpaid while you master your trade with experience?? Very similar description
Agreed. Same in most professions, particularly law. and totally acceptable too, who deserves top money straight after qualifying
I’m talking about before qualifying, being very poorly paid for several years.
I’m not sure it’s a good thing, as it means that the only people who pursue some of these career paths are those who can afford to do so.
and what kind of salary are they on before qualifying, im guessing you mean the years as a junior doctor? "
I was referring to other professions, and referred very specifically to the legal profession, where you need to be able to work for several years for next to no income.
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