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Reparations
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"2015? " Yep | |||
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"Would I like England to pay for the damage it did to Ireland? Absolutely. Do I think it should affect the people of England. Absolutely not. I understand the confliction." Great answer. Thank you | |||
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"I do wonder if anyone would argue that Germany should stop paying reparations to holocaust survivers ." How long have they been paying and how long will it go on for ? | |||
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"So, Who's paying us back for the billions of pounds and compensation for the lives we lost in two world wars? It's absolutely ridiculous!! Mr F. " Germany did | |||
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"Many rich families benefitted from sl@very- let them pay" If you could provide a list of families it would help, I don't want to pay for their benefit. | |||
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"So, Who's paying us back for the billions of pounds and compensation for the lives we lost in two world wars? It's absolutely ridiculous!! Mr F. Germany did " You mean the pittance they stopped paying in 1932? What about the rest of em, they also paid a pittance? We were 1.2 trillion in debt in today's money. | |||
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"I do wonder if anyone would argue that Germany should stop paying reparations to holocaust survivers . How long have they been paying and how long will it go on for ?" It's easy enough to look it up. The short version is Germany finished paying reparations to the Allied Nations but still supports Holocaust survivors with pensions and financial support for various organisations. | |||
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"I do wonder if anyone would argue that Germany should stop paying reparations to holocaust survivers . How long have they been paying and how long will it go on for ?" Since 1945 to the present day, there's no end date attached. There are still cases being decided in courts as to the rightful owners of goods and property stølen from deported and murdered Jewish families in Germany and elsewhere. How is this relevant to the question of reparations to be paid to those impacted by state sanctioned and mediated sl@very and the trade in humans as chattels? There's an awful lot of whataboutism on this thread already. It's not a case of "my trauma is worse than yours." From someone who's family was directly impacted by the German regime you referred to. | |||
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"So, Who's paying us back for the billions of pounds and compensation for the lives we lost in two world wars? It's absolutely ridiculous!! Mr F. Germany did You mean the pittance they stopped paying in 1932? What about the rest of em, they also paid a pittance? We were 1.2 trillion in debt in today's money. " I wouldn't say 500 billion is pittance. And that's just the treaty of Versailles. Many argue that Germany hasn't paid enough. But if they should pay then England should too right? Anybody want to guess how much England has paid Ireland in reparations for the destruction of its language and culture and the death of millions of Irish people? | |||
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"So, Who's paying us back for the billions of pounds and compensation for the lives we lost in two world wars? It's absolutely ridiculous!! Mr F. Germany did You mean the pittance they stopped paying in 1932? What about the rest of em, they also paid a pittance? We were 1.2 trillion in debt in today's money. I wouldn't say 500 billion is pittance. And that's just the treaty of Versailles. Many argue that Germany hasn't paid enough. But if they should pay then England should too right? Anybody want to guess how much England has paid Ireland in reparations for the destruction of its language and culture and the death of millions of Irish people?" As long as they include every other nation that has played its part in making sl*ves out someone and still do | |||
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"So, Who's paying us back for the billions of pounds and compensation for the lives we lost in two world wars? It's absolutely ridiculous!! Mr F. Germany did You mean the pittance they stopped paying in 1932? What about the rest of em, they also paid a pittance? We were 1.2 trillion in debt in today's money. I wouldn't say 500 billion is pittance. And that's just the treaty of Versailles. Many argue that Germany hasn't paid enough. But if they should pay then England should too right? Anybody want to guess how much England has paid Ireland in reparations for the destruction of its language and culture and the death of millions of Irish people? As long as they include every other nation that has played its part in making sl*ves out someone and still do" The Commonwealth country that directed and carried out sl@very was Britain. That's why it's being discussed. It IS a topic of conversation for other nations too, but that's not "our" problem. The UK should recognise, accept responsibility and make reparations for its leading role in sl@very. | |||
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"So, Who's paying us back for the billions of pounds and compensation for the lives we lost in two world wars? It's absolutely ridiculous!! Mr F. Germany did You mean the pittance they stopped paying in 1932? What about the rest of em, they also paid a pittance? We were 1.2 trillion in debt in today's money. I wouldn't say 500 billion is pittance. And that's just the treaty of Versailles. Many argue that Germany hasn't paid enough. But if they should pay then England should too right? Anybody want to guess how much England has paid Ireland in reparations for the destruction of its language and culture and the death of millions of Irish people? As long as they include every other nation that has played its part in making sl*ves out someone and still do The Commonwealth country that directed and carried out sl@very was Britain. That's why it's being discussed. It IS a topic of conversation for other nations too, but that's not "our" problem. The UK should recognise, accept responsibility and make reparations for its leading role in sl@very. " Exactly | |||
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"So, Who's paying us back for the billions of pounds and compensation for the lives we lost in two world wars? It's absolutely ridiculous!! Mr F. Germany did You mean the pittance they stopped paying in 1932? What about the rest of em, they also paid a pittance? We were 1.2 trillion in debt in today's money. I wouldn't say 500 billion is pittance. And that's just the treaty of Versailles. Many argue that Germany hasn't paid enough. But if they should pay then England should too right? Anybody want to guess how much England has paid Ireland in reparations for the destruction of its language and culture and the death of millions of Irish people? As long as they include every other nation that has played its part in making sl*ves out someone and still do The Commonwealth country that directed and carried out sl@very was Britain. That's why it's being discussed. It IS a topic of conversation for other nations too, but that's not "our" problem. The UK should recognise, accept responsibility and make reparations for its leading role in sl@very. " Ok, Lets pull a figure out the air 100 Billion, Who is actually paying ? Where is the money coming from ? | |||
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"So, Who's paying us back for the billions of pounds and compensation for the lives we lost in two world wars? It's absolutely ridiculous!! Mr F. Germany did You mean the pittance they stopped paying in 1932? What about the rest of em, they also paid a pittance? We were 1.2 trillion in debt in today's money. I wouldn't say 500 billion is pittance. And that's just the treaty of Versailles. Many argue that Germany hasn't paid enough. But if they should pay then England should too right? Anybody want to guess how much England has paid Ireland in reparations for the destruction of its language and culture and the death of millions of Irish people?" Not really.. Are we also paying for the suffering from British cave men on clubbing women and taking them back to their caves? What about dinosaurs? They caused loads of environmental damage to other countries... Yeah, it's that ridiculous!! | |||
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"So, Who's paying us back for the billions of pounds and compensation for the lives we lost in two world wars? It's absolutely ridiculous!! Mr F. Germany did You mean the pittance they stopped paying in 1932? What about the rest of em, they also paid a pittance? We were 1.2 trillion in debt in today's money. I wouldn't say 500 billion is pittance. And that's just the treaty of Versailles. Many argue that Germany hasn't paid enough. But if they should pay then England should too right? Anybody want to guess how much England has paid Ireland in reparations for the destruction of its language and culture and the death of millions of Irish people? As long as they include every other nation that has played its part in making sl*ves out someone and still do The Commonwealth country that directed and carried out sl@very was Britain. That's why it's being discussed. It IS a topic of conversation for other nations too, but that's not "our" problem. The UK should recognise, accept responsibility and make reparations for its leading role in sl@very. Ok, Lets pull a figure out the air 100 Billion, Who is actually paying ? Where is the money coming from ?" Charge It back to all those who think we should pay in extra taxes to them, job done. | |||
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"So, Who's paying us back for the billions of pounds and compensation for the lives we lost in two world wars? It's absolutely ridiculous!! Mr F. Germany did You mean the pittance they stopped paying in 1932? What about the rest of em, they also paid a pittance? We were 1.2 trillion in debt in today's money. I wouldn't say 500 billion is pittance. And that's just the treaty of Versailles. Many argue that Germany hasn't paid enough. But if they should pay then England should too right? Anybody want to guess how much England has paid Ireland in reparations for the destruction of its language and culture and the death of millions of Irish people? As long as they include every other nation that has played its part in making sl*ves out someone and still do The Commonwealth country that directed and carried out sl@very was Britain. That's why it's being discussed. It IS a topic of conversation for other nations too, but that's not "our" problem. The UK should recognise, accept responsibility and make reparations for its leading role in sl@very. Ok, Lets pull a figure out the air 100 Billion, Who is actually paying ? Where is the money coming from ?" Also who are we paying and why as no one has owned one who are being asked to pay.And no one who wants the money has ever been a one. Then go and look at how most were appropriated in the first place. A good read of Roots would be a good place for these people to start. Then try and explain why we should pay these clowns anything or even enter in to any discussion. Yes it was a nasty time in history but their own ancestors were heavily involved as well. | |||
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"I say remove the union flag from every other country. Hand it all back. New Zealand, Australia and and every other commonwealth country. Give it all back. Let them negotiate new trade deals and visas etc. They can be free to go on their own. No financial ties and no protection from UK forces. Uk can do it's own thing and they can do theirs. Then we can cut ties with Scotland, Wales and NI. Whilst we are at it we can break off Cornwall and let them self govern." You'd make a hell of a diplomat! | |||
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"So, Who's paying us back for the billions of pounds and compensation for the lives we lost in two world wars? It's absolutely ridiculous!! Mr F. Germany did You mean the pittance they stopped paying in 1932? What about the rest of em, they also paid a pittance? We were 1.2 trillion in debt in today's money. I wouldn't say 500 billion is pittance. And that's just the treaty of Versailles. Many argue that Germany hasn't paid enough. But if they should pay then England should too right? Anybody want to guess how much England has paid Ireland in reparations for the destruction of its language and culture and the death of millions of Irish people? As long as they include every other nation that has played its part in making sl*ves out someone and still do The Commonwealth country that directed and carried out sl@very was Britain. That's why it's being discussed. It IS a topic of conversation for other nations too, but that's not "our" problem. The UK should recognise, accept responsibility and make reparations for its leading role in sl@very. Ok, Lets pull a figure out the air 100 Billion, Who is actually paying ? Where is the money coming from ? Also who are we paying and why as no one has owned one who are being asked to pay.And no one who wants the money has ever been a one. Then go and look at how most were appropriated in the first place. A good read of Roots would be a good place for these people to start. Then try and explain why we should pay these clowns anything or even enter in to any discussion. Yes it was a nasty time in history but their own ancestors were heavily involved as well." Clowns?  | |||
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"All these questions wasn't asked when everyone else was getting reparations. Funny that, everyone went along with it and sympathised with the victims. " And some 2,000 Royal Navy sailors died stopping it once the practice had been outlawed So do their families now qualify for compensation | |||
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"I say remove the union flag from every other country. Hand it all back. New Zealand, Australia and and every other commonwealth country. Give it all back. Let them negotiate new trade deals and visas etc. They can be free to go on their own. No financial ties and no protection from UK forces. Uk can do it's own thing and they can do theirs. Then we can cut ties with Scotland, Wales and NI. Whilst we are at it we can break off Cornwall and let them self govern." I actually agree with you. And all the raw materials coming from those countries, pay full price for the finished product and not the raw materials and take the sellout puppet leaders and their families the west has put in those countries to rule. | |||
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"I say remove the union flag from every other country. Hand it all back. New Zealand, Australia and and every other commonwealth country. Give it all back. Let them negotiate new trade deals and visas etc. They can be free to go on their own. No financial ties and no protection from UK forces. Uk can do it's own thing and they can do theirs. Then we can cut ties with Scotland, Wales and NI. Whilst we are at it we can break off Cornwall and let them self govern." So you're talking purely about England, with that rant about Scotland, Wales and NI? The bad news for the English is they were the ones who invaded the aforementioned previously self governing territories and formed the UK. It was the UK that perpetuated the majority of the colonialism and sl@very. Scotland did some before the Union, but the Westminster Govt incorporated it very enthusiastically. | |||
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"So, Who's paying us back for the billions of pounds and compensation for the lives we lost in two world wars? It's absolutely ridiculous!! Mr F. Germany did You mean the pittance they stopped paying in 1932? What about the rest of em, they also paid a pittance? We were 1.2 trillion in debt in today's money. I wouldn't say 500 billion is pittance. And that's just the treaty of Versailles. Many argue that Germany hasn't paid enough. But if they should pay then England should too right? Anybody want to guess how much England has paid Ireland in reparations for the destruction of its language and culture and the death of millions of Irish people? As long as they include every other nation that has played its part in making sl*ves out someone and still do The Commonwealth country that directed and carried out sl@very was Britain. That's why it's being discussed. It IS a topic of conversation for other nations too, but that's not "our" problem. The UK should recognise, accept responsibility and make reparations for its leading role in sl@very. Ok, Lets pull a figure out the air 100 Billion, Who is actually paying ? Where is the money coming from ? Also who are we paying and why as no one has owned one who are being asked to pay.And no one who wants the money has ever been a one. Then go and look at how most were appropriated in the first place. A good read of Roots would be a good place for these people to start. Then try and explain why we should pay these clowns anything or even enter in to any discussion. Yes it was a nasty time in history but their own ancestors were heavily involved as well. Clowns? "I would use worse, but the same clowns come up with this every couple of years. Probably to deflect from their own problems. | |||
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"If the Crown.and I mean the actual hat not the money grabbing network was stripped of all it's ill gotten jewellery it would go a long way to putting a lot of wrongs right.and it wouldn't come from the tax payer who ain't reaping the rewards of all the nasty doings and never did." I agree that reparations should come largely from the Crown but also the extant big businesses that benefited, e.g. Lloyds and the like. | |||
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"So, Who's paying us back for the billions of pounds and compensation for the lives we lost in two world wars? It's absolutely ridiculous!! Mr F. Germany did You mean the pittance they stopped paying in 1932? What about the rest of em, they also paid a pittance? We were 1.2 trillion in debt in today's money. I wouldn't say 500 billion is pittance. And that's just the treaty of Versailles. Many argue that Germany hasn't paid enough. But if they should pay then England should too right? Anybody want to guess how much England has paid Ireland in reparations for the destruction of its language and culture and the death of millions of Irish people? As long as they include every other nation that has played its part in making sl*ves out someone and still do The Commonwealth country that directed and carried out sl@very was Britain. That's why it's being discussed. It IS a topic of conversation for other nations too, but that's not "our" problem. The UK should recognise, accept responsibility and make reparations for its leading role in sl@very. Ok, Lets pull a figure out the air 100 Billion, Who is actually paying ? Where is the money coming from ? Also who are we paying and why as no one has owned one who are being asked to pay.And no one who wants the money has ever been a one. Then go and look at how most were appropriated in the first place. A good read of Roots would be a good place for these people to start. Then try and explain why we should pay these clowns anything or even enter in to any discussion. Yes it was a nasty time in history but their own ancestors were heavily involved as well. Clowns?
I would use worse, but the same clowns come up with this every couple of years.
Probably to deflect from their own problems.
"Please can you clarify who the "clowns" are? | |||
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"Who should pay and who should receive the payments? Do you know exactly the people who benefited by this, so that we can make them pay? Do you know exactly the people who come from a lineage with ancestors who were oppressed from sl@very? If the answer to even one of the above questions is that you don't know, it's a meaningless act of robbing Peter to pay Paul. And how far into the history should one go? Should UK get reparations from people with viking ancestors? " The answer is the UK crown and businesses that benefited, should offer reparations to modern day nation states with populations that remain impacted. The wider impact of colonialism, which technically continues today in some forms by the UK Government, should also be examined. | |||
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"So, Who's paying us back for the billions of pounds and compensation for the lives we lost in two world wars? It's absolutely ridiculous!! Mr F. Germany did You mean the pittance they stopped paying in 1932? What about the rest of em, they also paid a pittance? We were 1.2 trillion in debt in today's money. I wouldn't say 500 billion is pittance. And that's just the treaty of Versailles. Many argue that Germany hasn't paid enough. But if they should pay then England should too right? Anybody want to guess how much England has paid Ireland in reparations for the destruction of its language and culture and the death of millions of Irish people? As long as they include every other nation that has played its part in making sl*ves out someone and still do The Commonwealth country that directed and carried out sl@very was Britain. That's why it's being discussed. It IS a topic of conversation for other nations too, but that's not "our" problem. The UK should recognise, accept responsibility and make reparations for its leading role in sl@very. Ok, Lets pull a figure out the air 100 Billion, Who is actually paying ? Where is the money coming from ? Also who are we paying and why as no one has owned one who are being asked to pay.And no one who wants the money has ever been a one. Then go and look at how most were appropriated in the first place. A good read of Roots would be a good place for these people to start. Then try and explain why we should pay these clowns anything or even enter in to any discussion. Yes it was a nasty time in history but their own ancestors were heavily involved as well. Clowns?
I would use worse, but the same clowns come up with this every couple of years.
Probably to deflect from their own problems.
Please can you clarify who the "clowns" are?"Take your pick of the usual suspects that keep coming up with this rubbish. | |||
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"So, Who's paying us back for the billions of pounds and compensation for the lives we lost in two world wars? It's absolutely ridiculous!! Mr F. Germany did You mean the pittance they stopped paying in 1932? What about the rest of em, they also paid a pittance? We were 1.2 trillion in debt in today's money. I wouldn't say 500 billion is pittance. And that's just the treaty of Versailles. Many argue that Germany hasn't paid enough. But if they should pay then England should too right? Anybody want to guess how much England has paid Ireland in reparations for the destruction of its language and culture and the death of millions of Irish people? As long as they include every other nation that has played its part in making sl*ves out someone and still do The Commonwealth country that directed and carried out sl@very was Britain. That's why it's being discussed. It IS a topic of conversation for other nations too, but that's not "our" problem. The UK should recognise, accept responsibility and make reparations for its leading role in sl@very. Ok, Lets pull a figure out the air 100 Billion, Who is actually paying ? Where is the money coming from ? Also who are we paying and why as no one has owned one who are being asked to pay.And no one who wants the money has ever been a one. Then go and look at how most were appropriated in the first place. A good read of Roots would be a good place for these people to start. Then try and explain why we should pay these clowns anything or even enter in to any discussion. Yes it was a nasty time in history but their own ancestors were heavily involved as well. Clowns?
I would use worse, but the same clowns come up with this every couple of years.
Probably to deflect from their own problems.
Please can you clarify who the "clowns" are?
Take your pick of the usual suspects that keep coming up with this rubbish.
"This doesn't help, sadly. If you could perhaps give a specific example of a "clown"? | |||
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"Who should pay and who should receive the payments? Do you know exactly the people who benefited by this, so that we can make them pay? Do you know exactly the people who come from a lineage with ancestors who were oppressed from sl@very? If the answer to even one of the above questions is that you don't know, it's a meaningless act of robbing Peter to pay Paul. And how far into the history should one go? Should UK get reparations from people with viking ancestors? The answer is the UK crown and businesses that benefited, should offer reparations to modern day nation states with populations that remain impacted. The wider impact of colonialism, which technically continues today in some forms by the UK Government, should also be examined. " Can you pinpoint which business that exists today benefitted by them? Do you think they are owned by the same people? If one of your ancestors earned a salary from these businesses, are you willing to pay half the money in your bank account as part of these reparations? Do you have the guts to ask these questions to Arab countries? Again, how far into the history do you want to go? | |||
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"Who should pay and who should receive the payments? Do you know exactly the people who benefited by this, so that we can make them pay? Do you know exactly the people who come from a lineage with ancestors who were oppressed from sl@very? If the answer to even one of the above questions is that you don't know, it's a meaningless act of robbing Peter to pay Paul. And how far into the history should one go? Should UK get reparations from people with viking ancestors? " We know who the perpetrators are as well as the victims. And to all those that keep on saying "I never opened any sl@ves!" And "you weren't a sla@ve!" I say the sl@ve owners descendants never owned sl@ves but still received compensation from tax payers like me ! So me, who is a dependant of a sl@ve should equally be given representation even those I was not a sl@ve. And some African countries have offered reparations in things such a land and citizenship. And they have also already apologised for their part. So what do you have to say now ? | |||
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"Who should pay and who should receive the payments? Do you know exactly the people who benefited by this, so that we can make them pay? Do you know exactly the people who come from a lineage with ancestors who were oppressed from sl@very? If the answer to even one of the above questions is that you don't know, it's a meaningless act of robbing Peter to pay Paul. And how far into the history should one go? Should UK get reparations from people with viking ancestors? The answer is the UK crown and businesses that benefited, should offer reparations to modern day nation states with populations that remain impacted. The wider impact of colonialism, which technically continues today in some forms by the UK Government, should also be examined. Can you pinpoint which business that exists today benefitted by them? Do you think they are owned by the same people? If one of your ancestors earned a salary from these businesses, are you willing to pay half the money in your bank account as part of these reparations? Do you have the guts to ask these questions to Arab countries? Again, how far into the history do you want to go?" There are descendants of the Arab sl@ve trade in Iraq, east Africa and Saudi doing just that. | |||
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"Who should pay and who should receive the payments? Do you know exactly the people who benefited by this, so that we can make them pay? Do you know exactly the people who come from a lineage with ancestors who were oppressed from sl@very? If the answer to even one of the above questions is that you don't know, it's a meaningless act of robbing Peter to pay Paul. And how far into the history should one go? Should UK get reparations from people with viking ancestors? The answer is the UK crown and businesses that benefited, should offer reparations to modern day nation states with populations that remain impacted. The wider impact of colonialism, which technically continues today in some forms by the UK Government, should also be examined. " And how are you going to make these businesses pay and how do you decide how much.As there are some that no longer exist. Looking at the impact of colonialism would be good.But what do use to look at it a public enquiry or something else. | |||
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"Who should pay and who should receive the payments? Do you know exactly the people who benefited by this, so that we can make them pay? Do you know exactly the people who come from a lineage with ancestors who were oppressed from sl@very? If the answer to even one of the above questions is that you don't know, it's a meaningless act of robbing Peter to pay Paul. And how far into the history should one go? Should UK get reparations from people with viking ancestors? We know who the perpetrators are as well as the victims. And to all those that keep on saying "I never opened any sl@ves!" And "you weren't a sla@ve!" I say the sl@ve owners descendants never owned sl@ves but still received compensation from tax payers like me ! So me, who is a dependant of a sl@ve should equally be given representation even those I was not a sl@ve. And some African countries have offered reparations in things such a land and citizenship. And they have also already apologised for their part. So what do you have to say now ?" Still got the same view.Not paying any.Should not pay any. Nasty times but life was viewed as cheap. | |||
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"I might be being a bit thick here. But you want to cough up for something you had no part in but are moaning that other people have been paid compo but you haven't, and you want some? Sounds to me like you are moaning that you haven't received compensation from yourself for what happened to your ancestors. I just want the council to empty my bin. " I agree with your first sentence. You have countless of examples and explanations above. | |||
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"Who should pay and who should receive the payments? Do you know exactly the people who benefited by this, so that we can make them pay? Do you know exactly the people who come from a lineage with ancestors who were oppressed from sl@very? If the answer to even one of the above questions is that you don't know, it's a meaningless act of robbing Peter to pay Paul. And how far into the history should one go? Should UK get reparations from people with viking ancestors? We know who the perpetrators are as well as the victims. And to all those that keep on saying "I never opened any sl@ves!" And "you weren't a sla@ve!" I say the sl@ve owners descendants never owned sl@ves but still received compensation from tax payers like me ! So me, who is a dependant of a sl@ve should equally be given representation even those I was not a sl@ve. And some African countries have offered reparations in things such a land and citizenship. And they have also already apologised for their part. So what do you have to say now ?" Do we have the record of individuals who were sl@ves and who owned sl@ves? A guy who owned sl@ves married someone who never owned sl@ves and had a son. That son marries a woman whose parents never owned sl@ves. Does he still owe the same amount of money because 1/4th of his grandparents benefitted out of it? The whole idea that you can go ask for money for something that happened multiple generations back is laughable. Sounds like mental gymnastics done by people who benefit out of it or by people who are looking for ways to pretend like they are morally superior by forcing others into doing something they claim to be morally right. | |||
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"Who should pay and who should receive the payments? Do you know exactly the people who benefited by this, so that we can make them pay? Do you know exactly the people who come from a lineage with ancestors who were oppressed from sl@very? If the answer to even one of the above questions is that you don't know, it's a meaningless act of robbing Peter to pay Paul. And how far into the history should one go? Should UK get reparations from people with viking ancestors? We know who the perpetrators are as well as the victims. And to all those that keep on saying "I never opened any sl@ves!" And "you weren't a sla@ve!" I say the sl@ve owners descendants never owned sl@ves but still received compensation from tax payers like me ! So me, who is a dependant of a sl@ve should equally be given representation even those I was not a sl@ve. And some African countries have offered reparations in things such a land and citizenship. And they have also already apologised for their part. So what do you have to say now ? Do we have the record of individuals who were sl@ves and who owned sl@ves? A guy who owned sl@ves married someone who never owned sl@ves and had a son. That son marries a woman whose parents never owned sl@ves. Does he still owe the same amount of money because 1/4th of his grandparents benefitted out of it? The whole idea that you can go ask for money for something that happened multiple generations back is laughable. Sounds like mental gymnastics done by people who benefit out of it or by people who are looking for ways to pretend like they are morally superior by forcing others into doing something they claim to be morally right. " Perhaps the bit about the recompense being aimed at the impacted nation states has eluded you? I don't think anyone is suggesting sticking a Giro in the post to every citizen of the Caribbean. | |||
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"Who should pay and who should receive the payments? Do you know exactly the people who benefited by this, so that we can make them pay? Do you know exactly the people who come from a lineage with ancestors who were oppressed from sl@very? If the answer to even one of the above questions is that you don't know, it's a meaningless act of robbing Peter to pay Paul. And how far into the history should one go? Should UK get reparations from people with viking ancestors? We know who the perpetrators are as well as the victims. And to all those that keep on saying "I never opened any sl@ves!" And "you weren't a sla@ve!" I say the sl@ve owners descendants never owned sl@ves but still received compensation from tax payers like me ! So me, who is a dependant of a sl@ve should equally be given representation even those I was not a sl@ve. And some African countries have offered reparations in things such a land and citizenship. And they have also already apologised for their part. So what do you have to say now ? Do we have the record of individuals who were sl@ves and who owned sl@ves? A guy who owned sl@ves married someone who never owned sl@ves and had a son. That son marries a woman whose parents never owned sl@ves. Does he still owe the same amount of money because 1/4th of his grandparents benefitted out of it? The whole idea that you can go ask for money for something that happened multiple generations back is laughable. Sounds like mental gymnastics done by people who benefit out of it or by people who are looking for ways to pretend like they are morally superior by forcing others into doing something they claim to be morally right. Perhaps the bit about the recompense being aimed at the impacted nation states has eluded you? I don't think anyone is suggesting sticking a Giro in the post to every citizen of the Caribbean. " Nation state is just a boundary. People are different. Has that eluded you? You do know that there are people within Africa who benefitted out of it right? If one of your ancestors received salary from a sl@ve owner, theoretically your ancestor benefited from it too. Will you part with your wealth if that's the case? | |||
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"After cash gets phased out, then we should phase out money and then wealth. Finally, none of these issues will be a problem any more." Somebody had that idea already. Marx my words. | |||
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"I think there's a massive difference for compensating someone whose lived through something like this as opposed to compensating others who have not suffered this but are ancestors of those that did hundreds of years ago. Where do you draw the line? I think that's the difficult issue here. Mrs x" Exactly. A similar thing happened in India with caste system. Immediately after independence, they had quota for oppressed castes in Government jobs and universities. It made sense then because casteism was rampant that time. We are multiple generations down and we still have the same quota system as politicians are scared of removing it. I have seen guys from poor families score more marks than guys from rich families and yet the rich family guy gets into better university because of the quota system that benefits his caste. | |||
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"After cash gets phased out, then we should phase out money and then wealth. Finally, none of these issues will be a problem any more." Europe isn't ready for another commie revolution. | |||
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"The UK should pay once the descendants of sl@ve traders in African countries have paid first. If the evils of ancestors are cause for compensation today, shouldn’t Ghana be the first to pay? After all, more Ghanaians today descend from sl@ve traders than sl@ves. The European sl@ve trade was abhorrent, but it was not unique. Sl@very was common in Africa prior to the European arrival. Centuries before Europeans penetrated Africa’s interior, ensl@ving enemies was part of the African way of war. Many sl@ves dispatched to the Americas from Goree Island in today’s Senegal and Elmina Castle in Ghana first entered captivity when rival Africans ensl@ved them. By no means does this excuse Europe. Experience of sl@very differed between Africa and America, and the thirst for sl@ves in the Americas’ European colonies created incentives for further African sl@ve raiding. Nor was Europe the only region engaged in the African sl@ve trade. Centuries before Europeans began trading Africans, there was a thriving Middle Eastern sl@ve trade. In the ninth century, the Zanj, ensl@ved black Africans, revolted in Basra. The Ottoman Empire ensl@ved both white and black people. While Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan declared in Somalia that Turkey alone stands against colonialism, he omitted that the sl@ve economy drove the Ottoman presence in the Horn of Africa. Islam may oppose discrimination in theory, but Arabs, Persians, and Turks nevertheless ensl@ved black people and discriminated against their descendants. The irony here is that Islamic regimes in Africa continued this sl@very. As recently as 1989 black Africans were flooding into northern Senegal from neighbouring Mauritania, where the elite Berbers ensl@ved black people. While Mauritania’s president outlawed sl@very in a 1981 decree, its government passed no penalties to disincentivise the practice. If they are serious about righting historical wrongs, where is the condemnation or demands for indemnity from Mauritania? Will they demand the oil-rich countries of Saudi Arabia, Iraq, and Iran, each of which benefited from black sl@very in centuries past, pay?" Informative post and illustrates the difficulties with this issue. To compensate someone who has not suffered directly from the thing being compensated for, from people who had no part to play in the suffering of their ancestors just seems unworkable and unjust to me. If the people who suffered the harm were still alive then that would make a difference I think. However for those that suffered this particular harm hundreds of years ago then I think it's not right to expect others to pay for the wrong doing of others. Mrs x | |||
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"All i am reading here is a load of hypocrisy. So, when its people desended from the transatlantic sl@ves trade time for reparations a 360 is pulled with a 101 excuses out your arse, "it was a long time ago!" And "you wasn't a sl@ve!" or "i never owned any sl@ves!" but when it was for others, it's the right thing to do aye and righting the wrongs of the past? I was never a sl@ve and david cameron never owned any sl@ves but in 2015 his ancestors had finished being paid for loss of property (sl@bes) and guess who paid ? Tax payers including the dependants of said transatlantic sl@ve trade. "So, you want us to pay because we made what was a legal activity at the time, illegal? So, in 100 years time, something you're doing now may become illegal, do your future family pay for this? You couldn't make it up! Mr F. | |||
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"The UK should pay once the descendants of sl@ve traders in African countries have paid first. If the evils of ancestors are cause for compensation today, shouldn’t Ghana be the first to pay? After all, more Ghanaians today descend from sl@ve traders than sl@ves. The European sl@ve trade was abhorrent, but it was not unique. Sl@very was common in Africa prior to the European arrival. Centuries before Europeans penetrated Africa’s interior, ensl@ving enemies was part of the African way of war. Many sl@ves dispatched to the Americas from Goree Island in today’s Senegal and Elmina Castle in Ghana first entered captivity when rival Africans ensl@ved them. By no means does this excuse Europe. Experience of sl@very differed between Africa and America, and the thirst for sl@ves in the Americas’ European colonies created incentives for further African sl@ve raiding. Nor was Europe the only region engaged in the African sl@ve trade. Centuries before Europeans began trading Africans, there was a thriving Middle Eastern sl@ve trade. In the ninth century, the Zanj, ensl@ved black Africans, revolted in Basra. The Ottoman Empire ensl@ved both white and black people. While Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan declared in Somalia that Turkey alone stands against colonialism, he omitted that the sl@ve economy drove the Ottoman presence in the Horn of Africa. Islam may oppose discrimination in theory, but Arabs, Persians, and Turks nevertheless ensl@ved black people and discriminated against their descendants. The irony here is that Islamic regimes in Africa continued this sl@very. As recently as 1989 black Africans were flooding into northern Senegal from neighbouring Mauritania, where the elite Berbers ensl@ved black people. While Mauritania’s president outlawed sl@very in a 1981 decree, its government passed no penalties to disincentivise the practice. If they are serious about righting historical wrongs, where is the condemnation or demands for indemnity from Mauritania? Will they demand the oil-rich countries of Saudi Arabia, Iraq, and Iran, each of which benefited from black sl@very in centuries past, pay?" What about righting historical wrongs closer to home? In living memory there were kids of 15 going down the pits. Their lungs were caked like concrete by 40. Countless other examples. The whole thing about reparations is bonkers. If this is what the Commonwealth means, the entire thing should be wound-up | |||
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"Well if there are any surviving ex sl*ves from that time they can apply for compensation, everyone else can go do one 👍 To all the guilt ridden white people they can sell all their possessions and property and make reparations so they can feel that self righteous glow all inside. Not a penny " Did you just ask the left wingers to take money out of their own pockets for a moral issue they pretend like they care about? How dare you??? | |||
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"The UK should pay once the descendants of sl@ve traders in African countries have paid first. If the evils of ancestors are cause for compensation today, shouldn’t Ghana be the first to pay? After all, more Ghanaians today descend from sl@ve traders than sl@ves. The European sl@ve trade was abhorrent, but it was not unique. Sl@very was common in Africa prior to the European arrival. Centuries before Europeans penetrated Africa’s interior, ensl@ving enemies was part of the African way of war. Many sl@ves dispatched to the Americas from Goree Island in today’s Senegal and Elmina Castle in Ghana first entered captivity when rival Africans ensl@ved them. By no means does this excuse Europe. Experience of sl@very differed between Africa and America, and the thirst for sl@ves in the Americas’ European colonies created incentives for further African sl@ve raiding. Nor was Europe the only region engaged in the African sl@ve trade. Centuries before Europeans began trading Africans, there was a thriving Middle Eastern sl@ve trade. In the ninth century, the Zanj, ensl@ved black Africans, revolted in Basra. The Ottoman Empire ensl@ved both white and black people. While Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan declared in Somalia that Turkey alone stands against colonialism, he omitted that the sl@ve economy drove the Ottoman presence in the Horn of Africa. Islam may oppose discrimination in theory, but Arabs, Persians, and Turks nevertheless ensl@ved black people and discriminated against their descendants. The irony here is that Islamic regimes in Africa continued this sl@very. As recently as 1989 black Africans were flooding into northern Senegal from neighbouring Mauritania, where the elite Berbers ensl@ved black people. While Mauritania’s president outlawed sl@very in a 1981 decree, its government passed no penalties to disincentivise the practice. If they are serious about righting historical wrongs, where is the condemnation or demands for indemnity from Mauritania? Will they demand the oil-rich countries of Saudi Arabia, Iraq, and Iran, each of which benefited from black sl@very in centuries past, pay? What about righting historical wrongs closer to home? In living memory there were kids of 15 going down the pits. Their lungs were caked like concrete by 40. Countless other examples. The whole thing about reparations is bonkers. If this is what the Commonwealth means, the entire thing should be wound-up" I agree. The reparations argument IS bonkers. Too much time has passed. Nobody living, nor their parents or their grandparents or their great grandparents have been directly affected by this. My point was that before demanding reparations exclusively from European countries, you first need to look to the descendants in African countries who were totally complicit and enabling. You need to look to the Middle Eastern countries. I don’t think anyone can be held accountable for the actions of their great great great grandparents! | |||
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"All i am reading here is a load of hypocrisy. So, when its people desended from the transatlantic sl@ves trade time for reparations a 360 is pulled with a 101 excuses out your arse, "it was a long time ago!" And "you wasn't a sl@ve!" or "i never owned any sl@ves!" but when it was for others, it's the right thing to do aye and righting the wrongs of the past? I was never a sl@ve and david cameron never owned any sl@ves but in 2015 his ancestors had finished being paid for loss of property (sl@bes) and guess who paid ? Tax payers including the dependants of said transatlantic sl@ve trade. "So what are views on descendants of sl@ve traders in African countries paying reparations? And Middle Eastern countries? | |||
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"All i am reading here is a load of hypocrisy. So, when its people desended from the transatlantic sl@ves trade time for reparations a 360 is pulled with a 101 excuses out your arse, "it was a long time ago!" And "you wasn't a sl@ve!" or "i never owned any sl@ves!" but when it was for others, it's the right thing to do aye and righting the wrongs of the past? I was never a sl@ve and david cameron never owned any sl@ves but in 2015 his ancestors had finished being paid for loss of property (sl@bes) and guess who paid ? Tax payers including the dependants of said transatlantic sl@ve trade.
So what are views on descendants of sl@ve traders in African countries paying reparations? And Middle Eastern countries?"Middle eastern countries ensured that they don't have to pay reparations by castrating the male sl@ves. Lovely countries with such a lovely history. | |||
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"Well if there are any surviving ex sl*ves from that time they can apply for compensation, everyone else can go do one 👍 To all the guilt ridden white people they can sell all their possessions and property and make reparations so they can feel that self righteous glow all inside. Not a penny Did you just ask the left wingers to take money out of their own pockets for a moral issue they pretend like they care about? How dare you???" I know 🤣 they only ever want to spend or give away other peoples money 👍 | |||
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Do you expect after all of that abuse the sl@ves would go home and treat their children/partner with love and care ?
Hell no we will never stop this conversation and demand for reparations.
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"Well if there are any surviving ex sl*ves from that time they can apply for compensation, everyone else can go do one 👍 To all the guilt ridden white people they can sell all their possessions and property and make reparations so they can feel that self righteous glow all inside. Not a penny Did you just ask the left wingers to take money out of their own pockets for a moral issue they pretend like they care about? How dare you??? I know 🤣 they only ever want to spend or give away other peoples money 👍" You're not wrong there. Try asking em to house a migrant and they're all conveniently renting houses and can't 😂 | |||
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"Yes, yes and double yes. Now what ? There is a thing called generational trauma so to those of you that say "you were never a sl@ve" and "it happened hundreds of years ago" Families split apart, children sold to plantations in other countries never to be seen again. If that wasn't enough the r@ping of infants, children both males and females and the making of leather from the sl@ves skin to bind books and make shoes, using the sl@ves hair to stuff cushions and Infants used as alligator bate. Our women young and old experimented on without anastatetic. Working the Sl@ves from sun up until sun down and beaten them until some died (including children) The descendants of the actual sl@ves that were taken across the Atlantic to a country they don't know, by people they have never seen in their entire life only to be abused and treated like animals carry this trauma. We do not even have our own traditional surnames. The reason why you all can sit on here and talk rubbish is because of what happened all the way back then. It's what helped powered the industrial revolution. And who said it was legal ? So, if I punch you in the face or come to you place and take everything because it's legal in another country that's ok is it ? And when was child abuse, murder and kidn@pping legal ? I'll wait
Do you expect after all of that abuse the sl@ves would go home and treat their children/partner with love and care ?
Hell no we will never stop this conversation and demand for reparations.
"As you did not reply+quote it is still unclear what your views are on demanding reparations from African countries and Middle Eastern countries as well as European countries? BTW nobody as far as I can see is undermining or dismissing the absolute horror of what happened. NOBODY. But unfortunately due to amount of time passed it is impossible to directly attribute except in rare cases. I would say there will be companies and individual families that benefitted from the sl@ve trade and subsequent compensation. But to expect the entire population of the UK to fit the bill is unrealistic. | |||
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"Don't try and steer the conversation somewhere else illegal migrants has nothing to do with the subject of reparations. " What do reparations look like to you as an individual? Do you want to see community projects, or would you as an individual receive something, and if so what? | |||
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"Yes, yes and double yes. Now what ? There is a thing called generational trauma so to those of you that say "you were never a sl@ve" and "it happened hundreds of years ago" Families split apart, children sold to plantations in other countries never to be seen again. If that wasn't enough the r@ping of infants, children both males and females and the making of leather from the sl@ves skin to bind books and make shoes, using the sl@ves hair to stuff cushions and Infants used as alligator bate. Our women young and old experimented on without anastatetic. Working the Sl@ves from sun up until sun down and beaten them until some died (including children) The descendants of the actual sl@ves that were taken across the Atlantic to a country they don't know, by people they have never seen in their entire life only to be abused and treated like animals carry this trauma. We do not even have our own traditional surnames. The reason why you all can sit on here and talk rubbish is because of what happened all the way back then. It's what helped powered the industrial revolution. And who said it was legal ? So, if I punch you in the face or come to you place and take everything because it's legal in another country that's ok is it ? And when was child abuse, murder and kidn@pping legal ? I'll wait
Do you expect after all of that abuse the sl@ves would go home and treat their children/partner with love and care ?
Hell no we will never stop this conversation and demand for reparations.
As you did not reply+quote it is still unclear what your views are on demanding reparations from African countries and Middle Eastern countries as well as European countries?
BTW nobody as far as I can see is undermining or dismissing the absolute horror of what happened. NOBODY. But unfortunately due to amount of time passed it is impossible to directly attribute except in rare cases. I would say there will be companies and individual families that benefitted from the sl@ve trade and subsequent compensation. But to expect the entire population of the UK to fit the bill is unrealistic."My comment is to everyone who disagrees with reparations being paid. That's why I haven't quoted anyone. I and others have already addressed the part the Africans and middle Easterners have played. Scroll up and you'll see. I don't care if it's another 1000s years the conversation and demand for what happened will not stop. The sooner reparations is paid the better. As I stated before 2015 was when the last payments to the sl@ve owners ended it was their descendants who aren't sl@ves owners receiving the payments and who do you think fitted the bill ? So it's ok to give reparations to the perpetrators descendants but not the victims descendants ? You say it's unrealistic for the entire uk population to pay but its you who have benefited from what took place. | |||
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"Don't try and steer the conversation somewhere else illegal migrants has nothing to do with the subject of reparations. What do reparations look like to you as an individual? Do you want to see community projects, or would you as an individual receive something, and if so what?" It could be a bit of each. None payment of tax. Tax already paid given back. Free education to those that go to university. Grants to start businesses. Therapy to name a few. | |||
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"Yes, yes and double yes. Now what ? There is a thing called generational trauma so to those of you that say "you were never a sl@ve" and "it happened hundreds of years ago" Families split apart, children sold to plantations in other countries never to be seen again. If that wasn't enough the r@ping of infants, children both males and females and the making of leather from the sl@ves skin to bind books and make shoes, using the sl@ves hair to stuff cushions and Infants used as alligator bate. Our women young and old experimented on without anastatetic. Working the Sl@ves from sun up until sun down and beaten them until some died (including children) The descendants of the actual sl@ves that were taken across the Atlantic to a country they don't know, by people they have never seen in their entire life only to be abused and treated like animals carry this trauma. We do not even have our own traditional surnames. The reason why you all can sit on here and talk rubbish is because of what happened all the way back then. It's what helped powered the industrial revolution. And who said it was legal ? So, if I punch you in the face or come to you place and take everything because it's legal in another country that's ok is it ? And when was child abuse, murder and kidn@pping legal ? I'll wait
Do you expect after all of that abuse the sl@ves would go home and treat their children/partner with love and care ?
Hell no we will never stop this conversation and demand for reparations.
As you did not reply+quote it is still unclear what your views are on demanding reparations from African countries and Middle Eastern countries as well as European countries?
BTW nobody as far as I can see is undermining or dismissing the absolute horror of what happened. NOBODY. But unfortunately due to amount of time passed it is impossible to directly attribute except in rare cases. I would say there will be companies and individual families that benefitted from the sl@ve trade and subsequent compensation. But to expect the entire population of the UK to fit the bill is unrealistic.
My comment is to everyone who disagrees with reparations being paid. That's why I haven't quoted anyone.
I and others have already addressed the part the Africans and middle Easterners have played. Scroll up and you'll see.
I don't care if it's another 1000s years the conversation and demand for what happened will not stop. The sooner reparations is paid the better.
As I stated before 2015 was when the last payments to the sl@ve owners ended it was their descendants who aren't sl@ves owners receiving the payments and who do you think fitted the bill ?
So it's ok to give reparations to the perpetrators descendants but not the victims descendants ?
You say it's unrealistic for the entire uk population to pay but its you who have benefited from what took place. "its us who have benefited? I can assure you my family never benefited, aunt done a search of our family managed to go back 160 years and our family has always been working class or dirt poor, dont forget the great unwashed in this country were treated like shit only up to about 100 odd years ago, if people want a pay out they need to start harassing the familys who made bank from it, not the taxpayer, and as for the payments paid to the owners you really think the man and woman in the street would of paid them out if they had any choice in the matter | |||
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"Don't try and steer the conversation somewhere else illegal migrants has nothing to do with the subject of reparations. " It was a valid statement. OK. So if in 300 years time, the normal thing is that people only work 1 day a week, and people then say that we were all sl*ve driven in 2024 even though it's perfectly legal now, would you expect your family to pay for that? Genuine question to you. | |||
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"Yes, yes and double yes. Now what ? There is a thing called generational trauma so to those of you that say "you were never a sl@ve" and "it happened hundreds of years ago" Families split apart, children sold to plantations in other countries never to be seen again. If that wasn't enough the r@ping of infants, children both males and females and the making of leather from the sl@ves skin to bind books and make shoes, using the sl@ves hair to stuff cushions and Infants used as alligator bate. Our women young and old experimented on without anastatetic. Working the Sl@ves from sun up until sun down and beaten them until some died (including children) The descendants of the actual sl@ves that were taken across the Atlantic to a country they don't know, by people they have never seen in their entire life only to be abused and treated like animals carry this trauma. We do not even have our own traditional surnames. The reason why you all can sit on here and talk rubbish is because of what happened all the way back then. It's what helped powered the industrial revolution. And who said it was legal ? So, if I punch you in the face or come to you place and take everything because it's legal in another country that's ok is it ? And when was child abuse, murder and kidn@pping legal ? I'll wait
Do you expect after all of that abuse the sl@ves would go home and treat their children/partner with love and care ?
Hell no we will never stop this conversation and demand for reparations.
As you did not reply+quote it is still unclear what your views are on demanding reparations from African countries and Middle Eastern countries as well as European countries?
BTW nobody as far as I can see is undermining or dismissing the absolute horror of what happened. NOBODY. But unfortunately due to amount of time passed it is impossible to directly attribute except in rare cases. I would say there will be companies and individual families that benefitted from the sl@ve trade and subsequent compensation. But to expect the entire population of the UK to fit the bill is unrealistic.
My comment is to everyone who disagrees with reparations being paid. That's why I haven't quoted anyone.
I and others have already addressed the part the Africans and middle Easterners have played. Scroll up and you'll see.
I don't care if it's another 1000s years the conversation and demand for what happened will not stop. The sooner reparations is paid the better.
As I stated before 2015 was when the last payments to the sl@ve owners ended it was their descendants who aren't sl@ves owners receiving the payments and who do you think fitted the bill ?
So it's ok to give reparations to the perpetrators descendants but not the victims descendants ?
You say it's unrealistic for the entire uk population to pay but its you who have benefited from what took place. "what about the Africans that took them to sell do there descendants not pay and why asnt Africa grew in wealth it was hundreds of years ago if you keep complaining about the past how can they move on it’s all about pay me pay me | |||
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"Don't try and steer the conversation somewhere else illegal migrants has nothing to do with the subject of reparations. It was a valid statement. OK. So if in 300 years time, the normal thing is that people only work 1 day a week, and people then say that we were all sl*ve driven in 2024 even though it's perfectly legal now, would you expect your family to pay for that? Genuine question to you. " best post of the day I bet | |||
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"Don't try and steer the conversation somewhere else illegal migrants has nothing to do with the subject of reparations. It was a valid statement. OK. So if in 300 years time, the normal thing is that people only work 1 day a week, and people then say that we were all sl*ve driven in 2024 even though it's perfectly legal now, would you expect your family to pay for that? Genuine question to you. " Seriously. That doesn't deserve an answer. | |||
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"Yes, yes and double yes. Now what ? There is a thing called generational trauma so to those of you that say "you were never a sl@ve" and "it happened hundreds of years ago" Families split apart, children sold to plantations in other countries never to be seen again. If that wasn't enough the r@ping of infants, children both males and females and the making of leather from the sl@ves skin to bind books and make shoes, using the sl@ves hair to stuff cushions and Infants used as alligator bate. Our women young and old experimented on without anastatetic. Working the Sl@ves from sun up until sun down and beaten them until some died (including children) The descendants of the actual sl@ves that were taken across the Atlantic to a country they don't know, by people they have never seen in their entire life only to be abused and treated like animals carry this trauma. We do not even have our own traditional surnames. The reason why you all can sit on here and talk rubbish is because of what happened all the way back then. It's what helped powered the industrial revolution. And who said it was legal ? So, if I punch you in the face or come to you place and take everything because it's legal in another country that's ok is it ? And when was child abuse, murder and kidn@pping legal ? I'll wait
Do you expect after all of that abuse the sl@ves would go home and treat their children/partner with love and care ?
Hell no we will never stop this conversation and demand for reparations.
As you did not reply+quote it is still unclear what your views are on demanding reparations from African countries and Middle Eastern countries as well as European countries?
BTW nobody as far as I can see is undermining or dismissing the absolute horror of what happened. NOBODY. But unfortunately due to amount of time passed it is impossible to directly attribute except in rare cases. I would say there will be companies and individual families that benefitted from the sl@ve trade and subsequent compensation. But to expect the entire population of the UK to fit the bill is unrealistic.
My comment is to everyone who disagrees with reparations being paid. That's why I haven't quoted anyone.
I and others have already addressed the part the Africans and middle Easterners have played. Scroll up and you'll see.
I don't care if it's another 1000s years the conversation and demand for what happened will not stop. The sooner reparations is paid the better.
As I stated before 2015 was when the last payments to the sl@ve owners ended it was their descendants who aren't sl@ves owners receiving the payments and who do you think fitted the bill ?
So it's ok to give reparations to the perpetrators descendants but not the victims descendants ?
You say it's unrealistic for the entire uk population to pay but its you who have benefited from what took place. its us who have benefited? I can assure you my family never benefited, aunt done a search of our family managed to go back 160 years and our family has always been working class or dirt poor, dont forget the great unwashed in this country were treated like shit only up to about 100 odd years ago, if people want a pay out they need to start harassing the familys who made bank from it, not the taxpayer, and as for the payments paid to the owners you really think the man and woman in the street would of paid them out if they had any choice in the matter"Yes you have benefited whether it's directly or indirectly | |||
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"Over 100 million Africans sold and kidn@pped and you seriously asking why Africa has taken so long to develop ? It's dealing with it's own trauma from the sl@ve trade and the western government's backing leaders that give away raw materials only to line their own pockets and put sanctions on countries that overthrow said puppet government. " 100million sold by africans that’s my point they stole and sold there own ppl and now they want money why would money ease the pain from hundreds of years back if they payed back all the aid money they have received then that would be fair enough | |||
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"Don't try and steer the conversation somewhere else illegal migrants has nothing to do with the subject of reparations. It was a valid statement. OK. So if in 300 years time, the normal thing is that people only work 1 day a week, and people then say that we were all sl*ve driven in 2024 even though it's perfectly legal now, would you expect your family to pay for that? Genuine question to you. Seriously. That doesn't deserve an answer." Oh yes It really does, but it's probably because you have no valid answer!! | |||
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"Don't try and steer the conversation somewhere else illegal migrants has nothing to do with the subject of reparations. It was a valid statement. OK. So if in 300 years time, the normal thing is that people only work 1 day a week, and people then say that we were all sl*ve driven in 2024 even though it's perfectly legal now, would you expect your family to pay for that? Genuine question to you. Seriously. That doesn't deserve an answer. Oh yes It really does, but it's probably because you have no valid answer!!" id also like to know the answer | |||
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"Don't try and steer the conversation somewhere else illegal migrants has nothing to do with the subject of reparations. It was a valid statement. OK. So if in 300 years time, the normal thing is that people only work 1 day a week, and people then say that we were all sl*ve driven in 2024 even though it's perfectly legal now, would you expect your family to pay for that? Genuine question to you. Seriously. That doesn't deserve an answer. Oh yes It really does, but it's probably because you have no valid answer!!" It's a dumb example! When was kidn@pping, child abuse and murder legal ?! Don't answer my question with a question! | |||
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"Yes, yes and double yes. Now what ? There is a thing called generational trauma so to those of you that say "you were never a sl@ve" and "it happened hundreds of years ago" Families split apart, children sold to plantations in other countries never to be seen again. If that wasn't enough the r@ping of infants, children both males and females and the making of leather from the sl@ves skin to bind books and make shoes, using the sl@ves hair to stuff cushions and Infants used as alligator bate. Our women young and old experimented on without anastatetic. Working the Sl@ves from sun up until sun down and beaten them until some died (including children) The descendants of the actual sl@ves that were taken across the Atlantic to a country they don't know, by people they have never seen in their entire life only to be abused and treated like animals carry this trauma. We do not even have our own traditional surnames. The reason why you all can sit on here and talk rubbish is because of what happened all the way back then. It's what helped powered the industrial revolution. And who said it was legal ? So, if I punch you in the face or come to you place and take everything because it's legal in another country that's ok is it ? And when was child abuse, murder and kidn@pping legal ? I'll wait
Do you expect after all of that abuse the sl@ves would go home and treat their children/partner with love and care ?
Hell no we will never stop this conversation and demand for reparations.
As you did not reply+quote it is still unclear what your views are on demanding reparations from African countries and Middle Eastern countries as well as European countries?
BTW nobody as far as I can see is undermining or dismissing the absolute horror of what happened. NOBODY. But unfortunately due to amount of time passed it is impossible to directly attribute except in rare cases. I would say there will be companies and individual families that benefitted from the sl@ve trade and subsequent compensation. But to expect the entire population of the UK to fit the bill is unrealistic.
My comment is to everyone who disagrees with reparations being paid. That's why I haven't quoted anyone.
I and others have already addressed the part the Africans and middle Easterners have played. Scroll up and you'll see.
I don't care if it's another 1000s years the conversation and demand for what happened will not stop. The sooner reparations is paid the better.
As I stated before 2015 was when the last payments to the sl@ve owners ended it was their descendants who aren't sl@ves owners receiving the payments and who do you think fitted the bill ?
So it's ok to give reparations to the perpetrators descendants but not the victims descendants ?
You say it's unrealistic for the entire uk population to pay but its you who have benefited from what took place. "But I'm not sure that what you are saying is accurate. The last payment of the loan the Government took out to 'compensate' the owners may have been in 2015. This was not paid to individuals but to whoever supplied the loan. The loan was for 20 million at the time equivalent to about 17 billion today. So individuals, or families of individuals have not been paid recently. The payments were made in the 1830's to 1840's. So although having to pay back this loan through our tax, how am I or any other individual responsible living today responsible for the issues discussed here, for something that was abolished two hundred years ago? You cannot be held responsible for the sins of your forefathers, that doesn't seem right. If you go through history, every region, every people have suffered atrocities but to expect innocent people to take responsibility for these historical 'crimes' is not logical. Where would you draw the line? How far back would you go? It's terrible what has happened but all people can point to terrible things that have happened in their history. Should everyone claim recompense? Mrs x | |||
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"Over 100 million Africans sold and kidn@pped and you seriously asking why Africa has taken so long to develop ? It's dealing with it's own trauma from the sl@ve trade and the western government's backing leaders that give away raw materials only to line their own pockets and put sanctions on countries that overthrow said puppet government. 100million sold by africans that’s my point they stole and sold there own ppl and now they want money why would money ease the pain from hundreds of years back if they payed back all the aid money they have received then that would be fair enough " No it wasn't the majority were kidn@pped once the rest of Europe began their own sl@ve trade and sugar and cocoa demand went through the roof. | |||
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"Don't try and steer the conversation somewhere else illegal migrants has nothing to do with the subject of reparations. It was a valid statement. OK. So if in 300 years time, the normal thing is that people only work 1 day a week, and people then say that we were all sl*ve driven in 2024 even though it's perfectly legal now, would you expect your family to pay for that? Genuine question to you. Seriously. That doesn't deserve an answer. Oh yes It really does, but it's probably because you have no valid answer!! It's a dumb example! When was kidn@pping, child abuse and murder legal ?! Don't answer my question with a question! "No, all those other examples you've given are illegal, I'm talking about the legal working of 5 days a week, if in 300 years time it's classed as sl*very as the norm then is to work 1 day a week, would you expect your future family to pay for that? I'm starting to think you do not have an answer?? | |||
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"Over 100 million Africans sold and kidn@pped and you seriously asking why Africa has taken so long to develop ? It's dealing with it's own trauma from the sl@ve trade and the western government's backing leaders that give away raw materials only to line their own pockets and put sanctions on countries that overthrow said puppet government. 100million sold by africans that’s my point they stole and sold there own ppl and now they want money why would money ease the pain from hundreds of years back if they payed back all the aid money they have received then that would be fair enough No it wasn't the majority were kidn@pped once the rest of Europe began their own sl@ve trade and sugar and cocoa demand went through the roof. " so money will make it better then why doesn’t Africa make things invent things create its own wealth how many and how long does it want handouts for eternity dont the Africans that stole and sold there own ppl need to stand up and be counted or isn’t there money in that | |||
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"Don't try and steer the conversation somewhere else illegal migrants has nothing to do with the subject of reparations. It was a valid statement. OK. So if in 300 years time, the normal thing is that people only work 1 day a week, and people then say that we were all sl*ve driven in 2024 even though it's perfectly legal now, would you expect your family to pay for that? Genuine question to you. Seriously. That doesn't deserve an answer. Oh yes It really does, but it's probably because you have no valid answer!! It's a dumb example! When was kidn@pping, child abuse and murder legal ?! Don't answer my question with a question!
No, all those other examples you've given are illegal, I'm talking about the legal working of 5 days a week, if in 300 years time it's classed as sl*very as the norm then is to work 1 day a week, would you expect your future family to pay for that? I'm starting to think you do not have an answer?? "I think the techical definition of sla*very is when you don't get paid. | |||
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"Yes, yes and double yes. Now what ? There is a thing called generational trauma so to those of you that say "you were never a sl@ve" and "it happened hundreds of years ago" Families split apart, children sold to plantations in other countries never to be seen again. If that wasn't enough the r@ping of infants, children both males and females and the making of leather from the sl@ves skin to bind books and make shoes, using the sl@ves hair to stuff cushions and Infants used as alligator bate. Our women young and old experimented on without anastatetic. Working the Sl@ves from sun up until sun down and beaten them until some died (including children) The descendants of the actual sl@ves that were taken across the Atlantic to a country they don't know, by people they have never seen in their entire life only to be abused and treated like animals carry this trauma. We do not even have our own traditional surnames. The reason why you all can sit on here and talk rubbish is because of what happened all the way back then. It's what helped powered the industrial revolution. And who said it was legal ? So, if I punch you in the face or come to you place and take everything because it's legal in another country that's ok is it ? And when was child abuse, murder and kidn@pping legal ? I'll wait
Do you expect after all of that abuse the sl@ves would go home and treat their children/partner with love and care ?
Hell no we will never stop this conversation and demand for reparations.
As you did not reply+quote it is still unclear what your views are on demanding reparations from African countries and Middle Eastern countries as well as European countries?
BTW nobody as far as I can see is undermining or dismissing the absolute horror of what happened. NOBODY. But unfortunately due to amount of time passed it is impossible to directly attribute except in rare cases. I would say there will be companies and individual families that benefitted from the sl@ve trade and subsequent compensation. But to expect the entire population of the UK to fit the bill is unrealistic.
My comment is to everyone who disagrees with reparations being paid. That's why I haven't quoted anyone.
I and others have already addressed the part the Africans and middle Easterners have played. Scroll up and you'll see.
I don't care if it's another 1000s years the conversation and demand for what happened will not stop. The sooner reparations is paid the better.
As I stated before 2015 was when the last payments to the sl@ve owners ended it was their descendants who aren't sl@ves owners receiving the payments and who do you think fitted the bill ?
So it's ok to give reparations to the perpetrators descendants but not the victims descendants ?
You say it's unrealistic for the entire uk population to pay but its you who have benefited from what took place. its us who have benefited? I can assure you my family never benefited, aunt done a search of our family managed to go back 160 years and our family has always been working class or dirt poor, dont forget the great unwashed in this country were treated like shit only up to about 100 odd years ago, if people want a pay out they need to start harassing the familys who made bank from it, not the taxpayer, and as for the payments paid to the owners you really think the man and woman in the street would of paid them out if they had any choice in the matter
Yes you have benefited whether it's directly or indirectly "in your eyes yes in my eyes no, i dint pay tax for it to be given away for what people done 2 or 300 years ago especially when my decendents had fuck all to do with it, by all means go after companies and familys that made money out of it but the tax payer footing the bill, i think not | |||
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"Many rich families benefitted from sl@very- let them pay If you could provide a list of families it would help, I don't want to pay for their benefit." There are records of the owners that were paid reparation, you can search your own family name online. | |||
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"Over 100 million Africans sold and kidn@pped and you seriously asking why Africa has taken so long to develop ? It's dealing with it's own trauma from the sl@ve trade and the western government's backing leaders that give away raw materials only to line their own pockets and put sanctions on countries that overthrow said puppet government. 100million sold by africans that’s my point they stole and sold there own ppl and now they want money why would money ease the pain from hundreds of years back if they payed back all the aid money they have received then that would be fair enough No it wasn't the majority were kidn@pped once the rest of Europe began their own sl@ve trade and sugar and cocoa demand went through the roof. " You are Dianne Abbott and I claim my five pounds. | |||
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"I cannot see how I have benefitted in anyway from the slav@ trade. I don't understand it Mrs x" The argument will be that the industrial revolution in Britain was funded by the proceeds from the sl@ve trade. It was very lucrative. So, the argument goes, Britain became a rich country off the back of the industrial revolution which itself was financed (at least in part) by the sl@ve trade. Therefore as Brits are fortunate to live in a wealthy country, we should all feel guilty about it and be prepared to pay up. While there is a logic, it is ridiculous to expect ALL people today to pay for the act of SOME people over two centuries ago and further back. I think the UK should only even entertain the idea after the African countries have stepped up first (as they were at the start of the enabling process) and Middle Eastern countries step up for their earlier part too. Ultimately the USA and South American countries also need to contribute majorly as well. Also we cannot only focus on black Africans. The indigenous peoples of South and North America also need reparations if anything gets paid to descendants of Black Africans to ensure parity and fairness. | |||
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"I cannot see how I have benefitted in anyway from the slav@ trade. I don't understand it Mrs x The argument will be that the industrial revolution in Britain was funded by the proceeds from the sl@ve trade. It was very lucrative. So, the argument goes, Britain became a rich country off the back of the industrial revolution which itself was financed (at least in part) by the sl@ve trade. Therefore as Brits are fortunate to live in a wealthy country, we should all feel guilty about it and be prepared to pay up. While there is a logic, it is ridiculous to expect ALL people today to pay for the act of SOME people over two centuries ago and further back. I think the UK should only even entertain the idea after the African countries have stepped up first (as they were at the start of the enabling process) and Middle Eastern countries step up for their earlier part too. Ultimately the USA and South American countries also need to contribute majorly as well. Also we cannot only focus on black Africans. The indigenous peoples of South and North America also need reparations if anything gets paid to descendants of Black Africans to ensure parity and fairness." But as an individual why am I responsible, why should I pay, even through taxation, for something I'm not responsible for? Mrs x | |||
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"I cannot see how I have benefitted in anyway from the slav@ trade. I don't understand it Mrs x The argument will be that the industrial revolution in Britain was funded by the proceeds from the sl@ve trade. It was very lucrative. So, the argument goes, Britain became a rich country off the back of the industrial revolution which itself was financed (at least in part) by the sl@ve trade. Therefore as Brits are fortunate to live in a wealthy country, we should all feel guilty about it and be prepared to pay up. While there is a logic, it is ridiculous to expect ALL people today to pay for the act of SOME people over two centuries ago and further back. I think the UK should only even entertain the idea after the African countries have stepped up first (as they were at the start of the enabling process) and Middle Eastern countries step up for their earlier part too. Ultimately the USA and South American countries also need to contribute majorly as well. Also we cannot only focus on black Africans. The indigenous peoples of South and North America also need reparations if anything gets paid to descendants of Black Africans to ensure parity and fairness." yes and maybe the Romans or vikings and we can keep going on and on if Africa invented things made things and was a wealthy continent we wouldn’t here about this | |||
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"I cannot see how I have benefitted in anyway from the slav@ trade. I don't understand it Mrs x The argument will be that the industrial revolution in Britain was funded by the proceeds from the sl@ve trade. It was very lucrative. So, the argument goes, Britain became a rich country off the back of the industrial revolution which itself was financed (at least in part) by the sl@ve trade. Therefore as Brits are fortunate to live in a wealthy country, we should all feel guilty about it and be prepared to pay up. While there is a logic, it is ridiculous to expect ALL people today to pay for the act of SOME people over two centuries ago and further back. I think the UK should only even entertain the idea after the African countries have stepped up first (as they were at the start of the enabling process) and Middle Eastern countries step up for their earlier part too. Ultimately the USA and South American countries also need to contribute majorly as well. Also we cannot only focus on black Africans. The indigenous peoples of South and North America also need reparations if anything gets paid to descendants of Black Africans to ensure parity and fairness.But as an individual why am I responsible, why should I pay, even through taxation, for something I'm not responsible for? Mrs x" I agree which is why I said: “…it is ridiculous to expect ALL people today to pay for the act of SOME people over two centuries ago and further back” | |||
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"I cannot see how I have benefitted in anyway from the slav@ trade. I don't understand it Mrs x The argument will be that the industrial revolution in Britain was funded by the proceeds from the sl@ve trade. It was very lucrative. So, the argument goes, Britain became a rich country off the back of the industrial revolution which itself was financed (at least in part) by the sl@ve trade. Therefore as Brits are fortunate to live in a wealthy country, we should all feel guilty about it and be prepared to pay up. While there is a logic, it is ridiculous to expect ALL people today to pay for the act of SOME people over two centuries ago and further back. I think the UK should only even entertain the idea after the African countries have stepped up first (as they were at the start of the enabling process) and Middle Eastern countries step up for their earlier part too. Ultimately the USA and South American countries also need to contribute majorly as well. Also we cannot only focus on black Africans. The indigenous peoples of South and North America also need reparations if anything gets paid to descendants of Black Africans to ensure parity and fairness." So if it's a societal benefit and I'm responsible due to my 'benefitting' from living here, wouldn't it logically follow that all residents in this country have also benefitted and ergo they would responsible and should pay for reparations, regardless of ethnicity, colour, religion etc. So just by being here, as residents in our country, it could be said those with black African heritage have benefitted from the trade in slav@s, it just seems a little strange to blame people because of where they live. Mrs x | |||
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"I cannot see how I have benefitted in anyway from the slav@ trade. I don't understand it Mrs x The argument will be that the industrial revolution in Britain was funded by the proceeds from the sl@ve trade. It was very lucrative. So, the argument goes, Britain became a rich country off the back of the industrial revolution which itself was financed (at least in part) by the sl@ve trade. Therefore as Brits are fortunate to live in a wealthy country, we should all feel guilty about it and be prepared to pay up. While there is a logic, it is ridiculous to expect ALL people today to pay for the act of SOME people over two centuries ago and further back. I think the UK should only even entertain the idea after the African countries have stepped up first (as they were at the start of the enabling process) and Middle Eastern countries step up for their earlier part too. Ultimately the USA and South American countries also need to contribute majorly as well. Also we cannot only focus on black Africans. The indigenous peoples of South and North America also need reparations if anything gets paid to descendants of Black Africans to ensure parity and fairness.So if it's a societal benefit and I'm responsible due to my 'benefitting' from living here, wouldn't it logically follow that all residents in this country have also benefitted and ergo they would responsible and should pay for reparations, regardless of ethnicity, colour, religion etc. So just by being here, as residents in our country, it could be said those with black African heritage have benefitted from the trade in slav@s, it just seems a little strange to blame people because of where they live. Mrs x" Agreed. I assume if reparations were agreed then the govt(s) would take out loans over a prolonged (200 year period) the repayment of which with interest would be funded from general taxation (ie all tax payers in the UK funding it). Although then the organisation(s) providing the loans would be benefitting via the interest so don’t they then become complicit? What about the financial institutions that provided the loan to the UK govt in the 19th Century. They charged interest so they benefitted too. And then we get into another argument. The black Africans forcibly transported to the various Caribbean islands were not indigenous. Yet with independence their decedents now have their own country. Would they have had that if they remained in Africa (inter-tribal warfare suggests not). So there is argument they already received reparations in the form of land and self-determination. | |||
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"Yes, yes and double yes. Now what ? There is a thing called generational trauma so to those of you that say "you were never a sl@ve" and "it happened hundreds of years ago" Families split apart, children sold to plantations in other countries never to be seen again. If that wasn't enough the r@ping of infants, children both males and females and the making of leather from the sl@ves skin to bind books and make shoes, using the sl@ves hair to stuff cushions and Infants used as alligator bate. Our women young and old experimented on without anastatetic. Working the Sl@ves from sun up until sun down and beaten them until some died (including children) The descendants of the actual sl@ves that were taken across the Atlantic to a country they don't know, by people they have never seen in their entire life only to be abused and treated like animals carry this trauma. We do not even have our own traditional surnames. The reason why you all can sit on here and talk rubbish is because of what happened all the way back then. It's what helped powered the industrial revolution. And who said it was legal ? So, if I punch you in the face or come to you place and take everything because it's legal in another country that's ok is it ? And when was child abuse, murder and kidn@pping legal ? I'll wait
Do you expect after all of that abuse the sl@ves would go home and treat their children/partner with love and care ?
Hell no we will never stop this conversation and demand for reparations.
As you did not reply+quote it is still unclear what your views are on demanding reparations from African countries and Middle Eastern countries as well as European countries?
BTW nobody as far as I can see is undermining or dismissing the absolute horror of what happened. NOBODY. But unfortunately due to amount of time passed it is impossible to directly attribute except in rare cases. I would say there will be companies and individual families that benefitted from the sl@ve trade and subsequent compensation. But to expect the entire population of the UK to fit the bill is unrealistic.
My comment is to everyone who disagrees with reparations being paid. That's why I haven't quoted anyone.
I and others have already addressed the part the Africans and middle Easterners have played. Scroll up and you'll see.
I don't care if it's another 1000s years the conversation and demand for what happened will not stop. The sooner reparations is paid the better.
As I stated before 2015 was when the last payments to the sl@ve owners ended it was their descendants who aren't sl@ves owners receiving the payments and who do you think fitted the bill ?
So it's ok to give reparations to the perpetrators descendants but not the victims descendants ?
You say it's unrealistic for the entire uk population to pay but its you who have benefited from what took place. But I'm not sure that what you are saying is accurate.
The last payment of the loan the Government took out to 'compensate' the owners may have been in 2015. This was not paid to individuals but to whoever supplied the loan.
The loan was for 20 million at the time equivalent to about 17 billion today.
So individuals, or families of individuals have not been paid recently. The payments were made in the 1830's to 1840's.
So although having to pay back this loan through our tax, how am I or any other individual responsible living today responsible for the issues discussed here, for something that was abolished two hundred years ago?
You cannot be held responsible for the sins of your forefathers, that doesn't seem right.
If you go through history, every region, every people have suffered atrocities but to expect innocent people to take responsibility for these historical 'crimes' is not logical.
Where would you draw the line? How far back would you go?
It's terrible what has happened but all people can point to terrible things that have happened in their history. Should everyone claim recompense?
Mrs x"“In 1833, Britain used 40% of its national budget to buy freedom for all sl@ves in the Empire. Britain borrowed such a large sum of money for the Sl@very Abolition Act that it wasn’t paid off until 2015,” a graphic posted by the political activist Raheem Kassam reads. “This means that living British citizens helped pay for the end of the sl@ve trade with their taxes,” the graphic continues. The post has been shared almost 20,000 times. The story is echoed in an article by the website Your Black World. When the United Kingdom abolished sl@very, the government compensated sl@ve owners for the value lost from freeing ensl@ved people. It is true the Bank of England only recently paid off these debts. Sl@very and abolition in the British Empire The British played an integral role in building the Atlantic sl@ve trade, which enabled chattel sl@very, the brutal practice that defined most societies in the Atlantic world. "Portugal and Britain were the two most ‘successful’ sl@ve-trading countries accounting for about 70% of all Africans transported to the Americas. Britain was the most dominant between 1640 and 1807 when the British sl@ve trade was abolished," the British National Archives found. In total, about 3.1 million African people were transported to British colonies across the Americas and Caribbean, though only 2.7 million people survived the harrowing "middle passage" in the confines of sl@ve ships across the ocean. Anti-sl@very sentiment grew in the Britain during this same period, with many British and African abolitionists agitating for an end to the trade and abolition of sl@very. In 1807, the British Parliament passed the Sl@ve Trade Act, which outlawed the sl@ve trade in the British Empire. "Many, however, simply evaded its restrictions. Sl@ve ships were regularly fitted out in British ports like Liverpool or Bristol. In fact, until 1811 carrying sl@ving equipment like shackles was not considered proof of involvement in the sl@ve trade," Marika Sherwood found in her 2007 work "After Abolition: Britain and the Sl@ve Trade Since 1807." British sl@vers and capital were still involved in the trading of African people to plantations in major sl@ve societies like Brazil, Cuba and the United States for years after the sl@ve trade's official abolition. In 1834, the British government outlawed sl@very in Britain and its American possessions, though not in its Asian colonies such as British India and what would become Sri Lanka. The British government also paid 20 million pounds – the equivalent of around 17 billion pounds today – to compensate sl@ve owners for the lost capital associated with freeing sl@ves. This payout was a massive 40% of the government's budget and required many bonds to sl@ve owners to effectuate the law. These obligations to sl@ve owners and institutions are the debts that were paid off by the UK government only in 2015. Compensating sl@ve owners after abolition The UK Treasury continued to compensate the descendants of sl@ve owners for decades after the abolition of sl@very in the empire. The payments were not scrutinized until the British Treasury tweeted out the historical fact in 2018. "The amount of money borrowed for the Sl@very Abolition Act was so large that it wasn't paid off until 2015. Which means that living British citizens helped pay to end the sl@ve trade," the tweet read. The tweet was widely criticized at the time, with many outraged that current British tax dollars were compensating the descendants of sl@ve owners. The Treasury later deleted the tweet. While the British government hasn't disclosed a complete list of the recipient individuals and firms of bonds related to compensation for sl@ves, researchers at University College London have compiled a list of over 46,000 current individuals and groups who have received government payouts related to the abolition of sl@very. Many powerful British families, including current business and political elites in the United Kingdom, are among the recipients uncovered by the UCL team. Yet not all recipients were already wealthy or became so due to the payouts; UCL records show many middle-class Britons also benefited from the bonds. "Britain stood out among European states in its willingness to appease sl@ve owners, and to burden future generations of its citizens with the responsibility of paying for it," Kris Manjapra wrote for The Guardian in 2018. Recently, economists and political scientists have debated whether the payouts were necessary for the successful abolition of sl@very, some arguing that political will would have been better used to compensate Black sl@ves instead. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I cannot see how I have benefitted in anyway from the slav@ trade. I don't understand it Mrs x The argument will be that the industrial revolution in Britain was funded by the proceeds from the sl@ve trade. It was very lucrative. So, the argument goes, Britain became a rich country off the back of the industrial revolution which itself was financed (at least in part) by the sl@ve trade. Therefore as Brits are fortunate to live in a wealthy country, we should all feel guilty about it and be prepared to pay up. While there is a logic, it is ridiculous to expect ALL people today to pay for the act of SOME people over two centuries ago and further back. I think the UK should only even entertain the idea after the African countries have stepped up first (as they were at the start of the enabling process) and Middle Eastern countries step up for their earlier part too. Ultimately the USA and South American countries also need to contribute majorly as well. Also we cannot only focus on black Africans. The indigenous peoples of South and North America also need reparations if anything gets paid to descendants of Black Africans to ensure parity and fairness.So if it's a societal benefit and I'm responsible due to my 'benefitting' from living here, wouldn't it logically follow that all residents in this country have also benefitted and ergo they would responsible and should pay for reparations, regardless of ethnicity, colour, religion etc. So just by being here, as residents in our country, it could be said those with black African heritage have benefitted from the trade in slav@s, it just seems a little strange to blame people because of where they live. Mrs x Agreed. I assume if reparations were agreed then the govt(s) would take out loans over a prolonged (200 year period) the repayment of which with interest would be funded from general taxation (ie all tax payers in the UK funding it). Although then the organisation(s) providing the loans would be benefitting via the interest so don’t they then become complicit? What about the financial institutions that provided the loan to the UK govt in the 19th Century. They charged interest so they benefitted too. And then we get into another argument. The black Africans forcibly transported to the various Caribbean islands were not indigenous. Yet with independence their decedents now have their own country. Would they have had that if they remained in Africa (inter-tribal warfare suggests not). So there is argument they already received reparations in the form of land and self-determination. " An interesting one is the differing treatment of aboriginal and Torres straight people of Australia to the Mauri people of New Zealand. Aboriginals are native to Australia and are treated like second-class citizens even today often hidden in the desert in small communities. Where is Mauri were not native of New Zealand, Violently conquered it, extremely violently or treated almost God like, To a point where white kiwis tried desperately to show they have Marie heritage because they get special privileges | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"My statement is - GET FUCKED. I had nothing to do with any sl@very, nor did any living relatives so if you think I'm agreeing to pay reparations you're sadly mistaken. " You get fucked ! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Yes, yes and double yes. Now what ? There is a thing called generational trauma so to those of you that say "you were never a sl@ve" and "it happened hundreds of years ago" Families split apart, children sold to plantations in other countries never to be seen again. If that wasn't enough the r@ping of infants, children both males and females and the making of leather from the sl@ves skin to bind books and make shoes, using the sl@ves hair to stuff cushions and Infants used as alligator bate. Our women young and old experimented on without anastatetic. Working the Sl@ves from sun up until sun down and beaten them until some died (including children) The descendants of the actual sl@ves that were taken across the Atlantic to a country they don't know, by people they have never seen in their entire life only to be abused and treated like animals carry this trauma. We do not even have our own traditional surnames. The reason why you all can sit on here and talk rubbish is because of what happened all the way back then. It's what helped powered the industrial revolution. And who said it was legal ? So, if I punch you in the face or come to you place and take everything because it's legal in another country that's ok is it ? And when was child abuse, murder and kidn@pping legal ? I'll wait
Do you expect after all of that abuse the sl@ves would go home and treat their children/partner with love and care ?
Hell no we will never stop this conversation and demand for reparations.
As you did not reply+quote it is still unclear what your views are on demanding reparations from African countries and Middle Eastern countries as well as European countries?
BTW nobody as far as I can see is undermining or dismissing the absolute horror of what happened. NOBODY. But unfortunately due to amount of time passed it is impossible to directly attribute except in rare cases. I would say there will be companies and individual families that benefitted from the sl@ve trade and subsequent compensation. But to expect the entire population of the UK to fit the bill is unrealistic.
My comment is to everyone who disagrees with reparations being paid. That's why I haven't quoted anyone.
I and others have already addressed the part the Africans and middle Easterners have played. Scroll up and you'll see.
I don't care if it's another 1000s years the conversation and demand for what happened will not stop. The sooner reparations is paid the better.
As I stated before 2015 was when the last payments to the sl@ve owners ended it was their descendants who aren't sl@ves owners receiving the payments and who do you think fitted the bill ?
So it's ok to give reparations to the perpetrators descendants but not the victims descendants ?
You say it's unrealistic for the entire uk population to pay but its you who have benefited from what took place. But I'm not sure that what you are saying is accurate.
The last payment of the loan the Government took out to 'compensate' the owners may have been in 2015. This was not paid to individuals but to whoever supplied the loan.
The loan was for 20 million at the time equivalent to about 17 billion today.
So individuals, or families of individuals have not been paid recently. The payments were made in the 1830's to 1840's.
So although having to pay back this loan through our tax, how am I or any other individual responsible living today responsible for the issues discussed here, for something that was abolished two hundred years ago?
You cannot be held responsible for the sins of your forefathers, that doesn't seem right.
If you go through history, every region, every people have suffered atrocities but to expect innocent people to take responsibility for these historical 'crimes' is not logical.
Where would you draw the line? How far back would you go?
It's terrible what has happened but all people can point to terrible things that have happened in their history. Should everyone claim recompense?
Mrs x
“In 1833, Britain used 40% of its national budget to buy freedom for all sl@ves in the Empire. Britain borrowed such a large sum of money for the Sl@very Abolition Act that it wasn’t paid off until 2015,” a graphic posted by the political activist Raheem Kassam reads.
“This means that living British citizens helped pay for the end of the sl@ve trade with their taxes,” the graphic continues. The post has been shared almost 20,000 times.
The story is echoed in an article by the website Your Black World.
When the United Kingdom abolished sl@very, the government compensated sl@ve owners for the value lost from freeing ensl@ved people. It is true the Bank of England only recently paid off these debts.
Sl@very and abolition in the British Empire
The British played an integral role in building the Atlantic sl@ve trade, which enabled chattel sl@very, the brutal practice that defined most societies in the Atlantic world.
"Portugal and Britain were the two most ‘successful’ sl@ve-trading countries accounting for about 70% of all Africans transported to the Americas. Britain was the most dominant between 1640 and 1807 when the British sl@ve trade was abolished," the British National Archives found.
In total, about 3.1 million African people were transported to British colonies across the Americas and Caribbean, though only 2.7 million people survived the harrowing "middle passage" in the confines of sl@ve ships across the ocean.
Anti-sl@very sentiment grew in the Britain during this same period, with many British and African abolitionists agitating for an end to the trade and abolition of sl@very. In 1807, the British Parliament passed the Sl@ve Trade Act, which outlawed the sl@ve trade in the British Empire.
"Many, however, simply evaded its restrictions. Sl@ve ships were regularly fitted out in British ports like Liverpool or Bristol. In fact, until 1811 carrying sl@ving equipment like shackles was not considered proof of involvement in the sl@ve trade," Marika Sherwood found in her 2007 work "After Abolition: Britain and the Sl@ve Trade Since 1807."
British sl@vers and capital were still involved in the trading of African people to plantations in major sl@ve societies like Brazil, Cuba and the United States for years after the sl@ve trade's official abolition.
In 1834, the British government outlawed sl@very in Britain and its American possessions, though not in its Asian colonies such as British India and what would become Sri Lanka.
The British government also paid 20 million pounds – the equivalent of around 17 billion pounds today – to compensate sl@ve owners for the lost capital associated with freeing sl@ves. This payout was a massive 40% of the government's budget and required many bonds to sl@ve owners to effectuate the law.
These obligations to sl@ve owners and institutions are the debts that were paid off by the UK government only in 2015.
Compensating sl@ve owners after abolition
The UK Treasury continued to compensate the descendants of sl@ve owners for decades after the abolition of sl@very in the empire. The payments were not scrutinized until the British Treasury tweeted out the historical fact in 2018.
"The amount of money borrowed for the Sl@very Abolition Act was so large that it wasn't paid off until 2015. Which means that living British citizens helped pay to end the sl@ve trade," the tweet read.
The tweet was widely criticized at the time, with many outraged that current British tax dollars were compensating the descendants of sl@ve owners. The Treasury later deleted the tweet.
While the British government hasn't disclosed a complete list of the recipient individuals and firms of bonds related to compensation for sl@ves, researchers at University College London have compiled a list of over 46,000 current individuals and groups who have received government payouts related to the abolition of sl@very. Many powerful British families, including current business and political elites in the United Kingdom, are among the recipients uncovered by the UCL team.
Yet not all recipients were already wealthy or became so due to the payouts; UCL records show many middle-class Britons also benefited from the bonds.
"Britain stood out among European states in its willingness to appease sl@ve owners, and to burden future generations of its citizens with the responsibility of paying for it," Kris Manjapra wrote for The Guardian in 2018.
Recently, economists and political scientists have debated whether the payouts were necessary for the successful abolition of sl@very, some arguing that political will would have been better used to compensate Black sl@ves instead.
"I'm aware of what you are saying but I'm saying payments to compensate owners has not been done recently and was paid out in the 1830-40s Mrs x | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Yes, yes and double yes. Now what ? There is a thing called generational trauma so to those of you that say "you were never a sl@ve" and "it happened hundreds of years ago" Families split apart, children sold to plantations in other countries never to be seen again. If that wasn't enough the r@ping of infants, children both males and females and the making of leather from the sl@ves skin to bind books and make shoes, using the sl@ves hair to stuff cushions and Infants used as alligator bate. Our women young and old experimented on without anastatetic. Working the Sl@ves from sun up until sun down and beaten them until some died (including children) The descendants of the actual sl@ves that were taken across the Atlantic to a country they don't know, by people they have never seen in their entire life only to be abused and treated like animals carry this trauma. We do not even have our own traditional surnames. The reason why you all can sit on here and talk rubbish is because of what happened all the way back then. It's what helped powered the industrial revolution. And who said it was legal ? So, if I punch you in the face or come to you place and take everything because it's legal in another country that's ok is it ? And when was child abuse, murder and kidn@pping legal ? I'll wait
Do you expect after all of that abuse the sl@ves would go home and treat their children/partner with love and care ?
Hell no we will never stop this conversation and demand for reparations.
As you did not reply+quote it is still unclear what your views are on demanding reparations from African countries and Middle Eastern countries as well as European countries?
BTW nobody as far as I can see is undermining or dismissing the absolute horror of what happened. NOBODY. But unfortunately due to amount of time passed it is impossible to directly attribute except in rare cases. I would say there will be companies and individual families that benefitted from the sl@ve trade and subsequent compensation. But to expect the entire population of the UK to fit the bill is unrealistic.
My comment is to everyone who disagrees with reparations being paid. That's why I haven't quoted anyone.
I and others have already addressed the part the Africans and middle Easterners have played. Scroll up and you'll see.
I don't care if it's another 1000s years the conversation and demand for what happened will not stop. The sooner reparations is paid the better.
As I stated before 2015 was when the last payments to the sl@ve owners ended it was their descendants who aren't sl@ves owners receiving the payments and who do you think fitted the bill ?
So it's ok to give reparations to the perpetrators descendants but not the victims descendants ?
You say it's unrealistic for the entire uk population to pay but its you who have benefited from what took place. But I'm not sure that what you are saying is accurate.
The last payment of the loan the Government took out to 'compensate' the owners may have been in 2015. This was not paid to individuals but to whoever supplied the loan.
The loan was for 20 million at the time equivalent to about 17 billion today.
So individuals, or families of individuals have not been paid recently. The payments were made in the 1830's to 1840's.
So although having to pay back this loan through our tax, how am I or any other individual responsible living today responsible for the issues discussed here, for something that was abolished two hundred years ago?
You cannot be held responsible for the sins of your forefathers, that doesn't seem right.
If you go through history, every region, every people have suffered atrocities but to expect innocent people to take responsibility for these historical 'crimes' is not logical.
Where would you draw the line? How far back would you go?
It's terrible what has happened but all people can point to terrible things that have happened in their history. Should everyone claim recompense?
Mrs x
“In 1833, Britain used 40% of its national budget to buy freedom for all sl@ves in the Empire. Britain borrowed such a large sum of money for the Sl@very Abolition Act that it wasn’t paid off until 2015,” a graphic posted by the political activist Raheem Kassam reads.
“This means that living British citizens helped pay for the end of the sl@ve trade with their taxes,” the graphic continues. The post has been shared almost 20,000 times.
The story is echoed in an article by the website Your Black World.
When the United Kingdom abolished sl@very, the government compensated sl@ve owners for the value lost from freeing ensl@ved people. It is true the Bank of England only recently paid off these debts.
Sl@very and abolition in the British Empire
The British played an integral role in building the Atlantic sl@ve trade, which enabled chattel sl@very, the brutal practice that defined most societies in the Atlantic world.
"Portugal and Britain were the two most ‘successful’ sl@ve-trading countries accounting for about 70% of all Africans transported to the Americas. Britain was the most dominant between 1640 and 1807 when the British sl@ve trade was abolished," the British National Archives found.
In total, about 3.1 million African people were transported to British colonies across the Americas and Caribbean, though only 2.7 million people survived the harrowing "middle passage" in the confines of sl@ve ships across the ocean.
Anti-sl@very sentiment grew in the Britain during this same period, with many British and African abolitionists agitating for an end to the trade and abolition of sl@very. In 1807, the British Parliament passed the Sl@ve Trade Act, which outlawed the sl@ve trade in the British Empire.
"Many, however, simply evaded its restrictions. Sl@ve ships were regularly fitted out in British ports like Liverpool or Bristol. In fact, until 1811 carrying sl@ving equipment like shackles was not considered proof of involvement in the sl@ve trade," Marika Sherwood found in her 2007 work "After Abolition: Britain and the Sl@ve Trade Since 1807."
British sl@vers and capital were still involved in the trading of African people to plantations in major sl@ve societies like Brazil, Cuba and the United States for years after the sl@ve trade's official abolition.
In 1834, the British government outlawed sl@very in Britain and its American possessions, though not in its Asian colonies such as British India and what would become Sri Lanka.
The British government also paid 20 million pounds – the equivalent of around 17 billion pounds today – to compensate sl@ve owners for the lost capital associated with freeing sl@ves. This payout was a massive 40% of the government's budget and required many bonds to sl@ve owners to effectuate the law.
These obligations to sl@ve owners and institutions are the debts that were paid off by the UK government only in 2015.
Compensating sl@ve owners after abolition
The UK Treasury continued to compensate the descendants of sl@ve owners for decades after the abolition of sl@very in the empire. The payments were not scrutinized until the British Treasury tweeted out the historical fact in 2018.
"The amount of money borrowed for the Sl@very Abolition Act was so large that it wasn't paid off until 2015. Which means that living British citizens helped pay to end the sl@ve trade," the tweet read.
The tweet was widely criticized at the time, with many outraged that current British tax dollars were compensating the descendants of sl@ve owners. The Treasury later deleted the tweet.
While the British government hasn't disclosed a complete list of the recipient individuals and firms of bonds related to compensation for sl@ves, researchers at University College London have compiled a list of over 46,000 current individuals and groups who have received government payouts related to the abolition of sl@very. Many powerful British families, including current business and political elites in the United Kingdom, are among the recipients uncovered by the UCL team.
Yet not all recipients were already wealthy or became so due to the payouts; UCL records show many middle-class Britons also benefited from the bonds.
"Britain stood out among European states in its willingness to appease sl@ve owners, and to burden future generations of its citizens with the responsibility of paying for it," Kris Manjapra wrote for The Guardian in 2018.
Recently, economists and political scientists have debated whether the payouts were necessary for the successful abolition of sl@very, some arguing that political will would have been better used to compensate Black sl@ves instead.
I'm aware of what you are saying but I'm saying payments to compensate owners has not been done recently and was paid out in the 1830-40s
Mrs x"And I'm saying nevertheless they were still paid and it took until 2015 to pay it back. And it was also the victims tax money used to pay it back. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Yes, yes and double yes. Now what ? There is a thing called generational trauma so to those of you that say "you were never a sl@ve" and "it happened hundreds of years ago" Families split apart, children sold to plantations in other countries never to be seen again. If that wasn't enough the r@ping of infants, children both males and females and the making of leather from the sl@ves skin to bind books and make shoes, using the sl@ves hair to stuff cushions and Infants used as alligator bate. Our women young and old experimented on without anastatetic. Working the Sl@ves from sun up until sun down and beaten them until some died (including children) The descendants of the actual sl@ves that were taken across the Atlantic to a country they don't know, by people they have never seen in their entire life only to be abused and treated like animals carry this trauma. We do not even have our own traditional surnames. The reason why you all can sit on here and talk rubbish is because of what happened all the way back then. It's what helped powered the industrial revolution. And who said it was legal ? So, if I punch you in the face or come to you place and take everything because it's legal in another country that's ok is it ? And when was child abuse, murder and kidn@pping legal ? I'll wait
Do you expect after all of that abuse the sl@ves would go home and treat their children/partner with love and care ?
Hell no we will never stop this conversation and demand for reparations.
As you did not reply+quote it is still unclear what your views are on demanding reparations from African countries and Middle Eastern countries as well as European countries?
BTW nobody as far as I can see is undermining or dismissing the absolute horror of what happened. NOBODY. But unfortunately due to amount of time passed it is impossible to directly attribute except in rare cases. I would say there will be companies and individual families that benefitted from the sl@ve trade and subsequent compensation. But to expect the entire population of the UK to fit the bill is unrealistic.
My comment is to everyone who disagrees with reparations being paid. That's why I haven't quoted anyone.
I and others have already addressed the part the Africans and middle Easterners have played. Scroll up and you'll see.
I don't care if it's another 1000s years the conversation and demand for what happened will not stop. The sooner reparations is paid the better.
As I stated before 2015 was when the last payments to the sl@ve owners ended it was their descendants who aren't sl@ves owners receiving the payments and who do you think fitted the bill ?
So it's ok to give reparations to the perpetrators descendants but not the victims descendants ?
You say it's unrealistic for the entire uk population to pay but its you who have benefited from what took place. But I'm not sure that what you are saying is accurate.
The last payment of the loan the Government took out to 'compensate' the owners may have been in 2015. This was not paid to individuals but to whoever supplied the loan.
The loan was for 20 million at the time equivalent to about 17 billion today.
So individuals, or families of individuals have not been paid recently. The payments were made in the 1830's to 1840's.
So although having to pay back this loan through our tax, how am I or any other individual responsible living today responsible for the issues discussed here, for something that was abolished two hundred years ago?
You cannot be held responsible for the sins of your forefathers, that doesn't seem right.
If you go through history, every region, every people have suffered atrocities but to expect innocent people to take responsibility for these historical 'crimes' is not logical.
Where would you draw the line? How far back would you go?
It's terrible what has happened but all people can point to terrible things that have happened in their history. Should everyone claim recompense?
Mrs x
“In 1833, Britain used 40% of its national budget to buy freedom for all sl@ves in the Empire. Britain borrowed such a large sum of money for the Sl@very Abolition Act that it wasn’t paid off until 2015,” a graphic posted by the political activist Raheem Kassam reads.
“This means that living British citizens helped pay for the end of the sl@ve trade with their taxes,” the graphic continues. The post has been shared almost 20,000 times.
The story is echoed in an article by the website Your Black World.
When the United Kingdom abolished sl@very, the government compensated sl@ve owners for the value lost from freeing ensl@ved people. It is true the Bank of England only recently paid off these debts.
Sl@very and abolition in the British Empire
The British played an integral role in building the Atlantic sl@ve trade, which enabled chattel sl@very, the brutal practice that defined most societies in the Atlantic world.
"Portugal and Britain were the two most ‘successful’ sl@ve-trading countries accounting for about 70% of all Africans transported to the Americas. Britain was the most dominant between 1640 and 1807 when the British sl@ve trade was abolished," the British National Archives found.
In total, about 3.1 million African people were transported to British colonies across the Americas and Caribbean, though only 2.7 million people survived the harrowing "middle passage" in the confines of sl@ve ships across the ocean.
Anti-sl@very sentiment grew in the Britain during this same period, with many British and African abolitionists agitating for an end to the trade and abolition of sl@very. In 1807, the British Parliament passed the Sl@ve Trade Act, which outlawed the sl@ve trade in the British Empire.
"Many, however, simply evaded its restrictions. Sl@ve ships were regularly fitted out in British ports like Liverpool or Bristol. In fact, until 1811 carrying sl@ving equipment like shackles was not considered proof of involvement in the sl@ve trade," Marika Sherwood found in her 2007 work "After Abolition: Britain and the Sl@ve Trade Since 1807."
British sl@vers and capital were still involved in the trading of African people to plantations in major sl@ve societies like Brazil, Cuba and the United States for years after the sl@ve trade's official abolition.
In 1834, the British government outlawed sl@very in Britain and its American possessions, though not in its Asian colonies such as British India and what would become Sri Lanka.
The British government also paid 20 million pounds – the equivalent of around 17 billion pounds today – to compensate sl@ve owners for the lost capital associated with freeing sl@ves. This payout was a massive 40% of the government's budget and required many bonds to sl@ve owners to effectuate the law.
These obligations to sl@ve owners and institutions are the debts that were paid off by the UK government only in 2015.
Compensating sl@ve owners after abolition
The UK Treasury continued to compensate the descendants of sl@ve owners for decades after the abolition of sl@very in the empire. The payments were not scrutinized until the British Treasury tweeted out the historical fact in 2018.
"The amount of money borrowed for the Sl@very Abolition Act was so large that it wasn't paid off until 2015. Which means that living British citizens helped pay to end the sl@ve trade," the tweet read.
The tweet was widely criticized at the time, with many outraged that current British tax dollars were compensating the descendants of sl@ve owners. The Treasury later deleted the tweet.
While the British government hasn't disclosed a complete list of the recipient individuals and firms of bonds related to compensation for sl@ves, researchers at University College London have compiled a list of over 46,000 current individuals and groups who have received government payouts related to the abolition of sl@very. Many powerful British families, including current business and political elites in the United Kingdom, are among the recipients uncovered by the UCL team.
Yet not all recipients were already wealthy or became so due to the payouts; UCL records show many middle-class Britons also benefited from the bonds.
"Britain stood out among European states in its willingness to appease sl@ve owners, and to burden future generations of its citizens with the responsibility of paying for it," Kris Manjapra wrote for The Guardian in 2018.
Recently, economists and political scientists have debated whether the payouts were necessary for the successful abolition of sl@very, some arguing that political will would have been better used to compensate Black sl@ves instead.
I'm aware of what you are saying but I'm saying payments to compensate owners has not been done recently and was paid out in the 1830-40s
Mrs x
And I'm saying nevertheless they were still paid and it took until 2015 to pay it back. And it was also the victims tax money used to pay it back. "but Luke I'm not responsible for the actions of my forebears I also may not have benefitted from any of their finances. I've done nothing wrong and so have not been paid. I've recieved no benefit from this. Mrs x | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Yes, yes and double yes. Now what ? There is a thing called generational trauma so to those of you that say "you were never a sl@ve" and "it happened hundreds of years ago" Families split apart, children sold to plantations in other countries never to be seen again. If that wasn't enough the r@ping of infants, children both males and females and the making of leather from the sl@ves skin to bind books and make shoes, using the sl@ves hair to stuff cushions and Infants used as alligator bate. Our women young and old experimented on without anastatetic. Working the Sl@ves from sun up until sun down and beaten them until some died (including children) The descendants of the actual sl@ves that were taken across the Atlantic to a country they don't know, by people they have never seen in their entire life only to be abused and treated like animals carry this trauma. We do not even have our own traditional surnames. The reason why you all can sit on here and talk rubbish is because of what happened all the way back then. It's what helped powered the industrial revolution. And who said it was legal ? So, if I punch you in the face or come to you place and take everything because it's legal in another country that's ok is it ? And when was child abuse, murder and kidn@pping legal ? I'll wait
Do you expect after all of that abuse the sl@ves would go home and treat their children/partner with love and care ?
Hell no we will never stop this conversation and demand for reparations.
As you did not reply+quote it is still unclear what your views are on demanding reparations from African countries and Middle Eastern countries as well as European countries?
BTW nobody as far as I can see is undermining or dismissing the absolute horror of what happened. NOBODY. But unfortunately due to amount of time passed it is impossible to directly attribute except in rare cases. I would say there will be companies and individual families that benefitted from the sl@ve trade and subsequent compensation. But to expect the entire population of the UK to fit the bill is unrealistic.
My comment is to everyone who disagrees with reparations being paid. That's why I haven't quoted anyone.
I and others have already addressed the part the Africans and middle Easterners have played. Scroll up and you'll see.
I don't care if it's another 1000s years the conversation and demand for what happened will not stop. The sooner reparations is paid the better.
As I stated before 2015 was when the last payments to the sl@ve owners ended it was their descendants who aren't sl@ves owners receiving the payments and who do you think fitted the bill ?
So it's ok to give reparations to the perpetrators descendants but not the victims descendants ?
You say it's unrealistic for the entire uk population to pay but its you who have benefited from what took place. But I'm not sure that what you are saying is accurate.
The last payment of the loan the Government took out to 'compensate' the owners may have been in 2015. This was not paid to individuals but to whoever supplied the loan.
The loan was for 20 million at the time equivalent to about 17 billion today.
So individuals, or families of individuals have not been paid recently. The payments were made in the 1830's to 1840's.
So although having to pay back this loan through our tax, how am I or any other individual responsible living today responsible for the issues discussed here, for something that was abolished two hundred years ago?
You cannot be held responsible for the sins of your forefathers, that doesn't seem right.
If you go through history, every region, every people have suffered atrocities but to expect innocent people to take responsibility for these historical 'crimes' is not logical.
Where would you draw the line? How far back would you go?
It's terrible what has happened but all people can point to terrible things that have happened in their history. Should everyone claim recompense?
Mrs x
“In 1833, Britain used 40% of its national budget to buy freedom for all sl@ves in the Empire. Britain borrowed such a large sum of money for the Sl@very Abolition Act that it wasn’t paid off until 2015,” a graphic posted by the political activist Raheem Kassam reads.
“This means that living British citizens helped pay for the end of the sl@ve trade with their taxes,” the graphic continues. The post has been shared almost 20,000 times.
The story is echoed in an article by the website Your Black World.
When the United Kingdom abolished sl@very, the government compensated sl@ve owners for the value lost from freeing ensl@ved people. It is true the Bank of England only recently paid off these debts.
Sl@very and abolition in the British Empire
The British played an integral role in building the Atlantic sl@ve trade, which enabled chattel sl@very, the brutal practice that defined most societies in the Atlantic world.
"Portugal and Britain were the two most ‘successful’ sl@ve-trading countries accounting for about 70% of all Africans transported to the Americas. Britain was the most dominant between 1640 and 1807 when the British sl@ve trade was abolished," the British National Archives found.
In total, about 3.1 million African people were transported to British colonies across the Americas and Caribbean, though only 2.7 million people survived the harrowing "middle passage" in the confines of sl@ve ships across the ocean.
Anti-sl@very sentiment grew in the Britain during this same period, with many British and African abolitionists agitating for an end to the trade and abolition of sl@very. In 1807, the British Parliament passed the Sl@ve Trade Act, which outlawed the sl@ve trade in the British Empire.
"Many, however, simply evaded its restrictions. Sl@ve ships were regularly fitted out in British ports like Liverpool or Bristol. In fact, until 1811 carrying sl@ving equipment like shackles was not considered proof of involvement in the sl@ve trade," Marika Sherwood found in her 2007 work "After Abolition: Britain and the Sl@ve Trade Since 1807."
British sl@vers and capital were still involved in the trading of African people to plantations in major sl@ve societies like Brazil, Cuba and the United States for years after the sl@ve trade's official abolition.
In 1834, the British government outlawed sl@very in Britain and its American possessions, though not in its Asian colonies such as British India and what would become Sri Lanka.
The British government also paid 20 million pounds – the equivalent of around 17 billion pounds today – to compensate sl@ve owners for the lost capital associated with freeing sl@ves. This payout was a massive 40% of the government's budget and required many bonds to sl@ve owners to effectuate the law.
These obligations to sl@ve owners and institutions are the debts that were paid off by the UK government only in 2015.
Compensating sl@ve owners after abolition
The UK Treasury continued to compensate the descendants of sl@ve owners for decades after the abolition of sl@very in the empire. The payments were not scrutinized until the British Treasury tweeted out the historical fact in 2018.
"The amount of money borrowed for the Sl@very Abolition Act was so large that it wasn't paid off until 2015. Which means that living British citizens helped pay to end the sl@ve trade," the tweet read.
The tweet was widely criticized at the time, with many outraged that current British tax dollars were compensating the descendants of sl@ve owners. The Treasury later deleted the tweet.
While the British government hasn't disclosed a complete list of the recipient individuals and firms of bonds related to compensation for sl@ves, researchers at University College London have compiled a list of over 46,000 current individuals and groups who have received government payouts related to the abolition of sl@very. Many powerful British families, including current business and political elites in the United Kingdom, are among the recipients uncovered by the UCL team.
Yet not all recipients were already wealthy or became so due to the payouts; UCL records show many middle-class Britons also benefited from the bonds.
"Britain stood out among European states in its willingness to appease sl@ve owners, and to burden future generations of its citizens with the responsibility of paying for it," Kris Manjapra wrote for The Guardian in 2018.
Recently, economists and political scientists have debated whether the payouts were necessary for the successful abolition of sl@very, some arguing that political will would have been better used to compensate Black sl@ves instead.
"Thanks for that. So it is clear from this statement… "“In 1833, Britain used 40% of its national budget to buy freedom for all sl@ves in the Empire. Britain borrowed such a large sum of money for the Sl@very Abolition Act that it wasn’t paid off until 2015,” a graphic posted by the political activist Raheem Kassam reads. “This means that living British citizens helped pay for the end of the sl@ve trade with their taxes,”" That British taxpayers have done their bit already. If anyone wants to seek reparations they need to go after those who received the compensation when the trade was abolished | |||
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"Don't try and steer the conversation somewhere else illegal migrants has nothing to do with the subject of reparations. It was a valid statement. OK. So if in 300 years time, the normal thing is that people only work 1 day a week, and people then say that we were all sl*ve driven in 2024 even though it's perfectly legal now, would you expect your family to pay for that? Genuine question to you. Seriously. That doesn't deserve an answer. Oh yes It really does, but it's probably because you have no valid answer!! It's a dumb example! When was kidn@pping, child abuse and murder legal ?! Don't answer my question with a question!
No, all those other examples you've given are illegal, I'm talking about the legal working of 5 days a week, if in 300 years time it's classed as sl*very as the norm then is to work 1 day a week, would you expect your future family to pay for that? I'm starting to think you do not have an answer?? "I don't argue with ignorance. I will not try to convince you to change your views. It's like trying to tell a serial killer to stop killing. But I tell you this, the descendants of sl@ves will be compensated whether it be by you or your great, great, great gand children. I've already answered. | |||
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"Yes, yes and double yes. Now what ? There is a thing called generational trauma so to those of you that say "you were never a sl@ve" and "it happened hundreds of years ago" Families split apart, children sold to plantations in other countries never to be seen again. If that wasn't enough the r@ping of infants, children both males and females and the making of leather from the sl@ves skin to bind books and make shoes, using the sl@ves hair to stuff cushions and Infants used as alligator bate. Our women young and old experimented on without anastatetic. Working the Sl@ves from sun up until sun down and beaten them until some died (including children) The descendants of the actual sl@ves that were taken across the Atlantic to a country they don't know, by people they have never seen in their entire life only to be abused and treated like animals carry this trauma. We do not even have our own traditional surnames. The reason why you all can sit on here and talk rubbish is because of what happened all the way back then. It's what helped powered the industrial revolution. And who said it was legal ? So, if I punch you in the face or come to you place and take everything because it's legal in another country that's ok is it ? And when was child abuse, murder and kidn@pping legal ? I'll wait
Do you expect after all of that abuse the sl@ves would go home and treat their children/partner with love and care ?
Hell no we will never stop this conversation and demand for reparations.
As you did not reply+quote it is still unclear what your views are on demanding reparations from African countries and Middle Eastern countries as well as European countries?
BTW nobody as far as I can see is undermining or dismissing the absolute horror of what happened. NOBODY. But unfortunately due to amount of time passed it is impossible to directly attribute except in rare cases. I would say there will be companies and individual families that benefitted from the sl@ve trade and subsequent compensation. But to expect the entire population of the UK to fit the bill is unrealistic.
My comment is to everyone who disagrees with reparations being paid. That's why I haven't quoted anyone.
I and others have already addressed the part the Africans and middle Easterners have played. Scroll up and you'll see.
I don't care if it's another 1000s years the conversation and demand for what happened will not stop. The sooner reparations is paid the better.
As I stated before 2015 was when the last payments to the sl@ve owners ended it was their descendants who aren't sl@ves owners receiving the payments and who do you think fitted the bill ?
So it's ok to give reparations to the perpetrators descendants but not the victims descendants ?
You say it's unrealistic for the entire uk population to pay but its you who have benefited from what took place. But I'm not sure that what you are saying is accurate.
The last payment of the loan the Government took out to 'compensate' the owners may have been in 2015. This was not paid to individuals but to whoever supplied the loan.
The loan was for 20 million at the time equivalent to about 17 billion today.
So individuals, or families of individuals have not been paid recently. The payments were made in the 1830's to 1840's.
So although having to pay back this loan through our tax, how am I or any other individual responsible living today responsible for the issues discussed here, for something that was abolished two hundred years ago?
You cannot be held responsible for the sins of your forefathers, that doesn't seem right.
If you go through history, every region, every people have suffered atrocities but to expect innocent people to take responsibility for these historical 'crimes' is not logical.
Where would you draw the line? How far back would you go?
It's terrible what has happened but all people can point to terrible things that have happened in their history. Should everyone claim recompense?
Mrs x
“In 1833, Britain used 40% of its national budget to buy freedom for all sl@ves in the Empire. Britain borrowed such a large sum of money for the Sl@very Abolition Act that it wasn’t paid off until 2015,” a graphic posted by the political activist Raheem Kassam reads.
“This means that living British citizens helped pay for the end of the sl@ve trade with their taxes,” the graphic continues. The post has been shared almost 20,000 times.
The story is echoed in an article by the website Your Black World.
When the United Kingdom abolished sl@very, the government compensated sl@ve owners for the value lost from freeing ensl@ved people. It is true the Bank of England only recently paid off these debts.
Sl@very and abolition in the British Empire
The British played an integral role in building the Atlantic sl@ve trade, which enabled chattel sl@very, the brutal practice that defined most societies in the Atlantic world.
"Portugal and Britain were the two most ‘successful’ sl@ve-trading countries accounting for about 70% of all Africans transported to the Americas. Britain was the most dominant between 1640 and 1807 when the British sl@ve trade was abolished," the British National Archives found.
In total, about 3.1 million African people were transported to British colonies across the Americas and Caribbean, though only 2.7 million people survived the harrowing "middle passage" in the confines of sl@ve ships across the ocean.
Anti-sl@very sentiment grew in the Britain during this same period, with many British and African abolitionists agitating for an end to the trade and abolition of sl@very. In 1807, the British Parliament passed the Sl@ve Trade Act, which outlawed the sl@ve trade in the British Empire.
"Many, however, simply evaded its restrictions. Sl@ve ships were regularly fitted out in British ports like Liverpool or Bristol. In fact, until 1811 carrying sl@ving equipment like shackles was not considered proof of involvement in the sl@ve trade," Marika Sherwood found in her 2007 work "After Abolition: Britain and the Sl@ve Trade Since 1807."
British sl@vers and capital were still involved in the trading of African people to plantations in major sl@ve societies like Brazil, Cuba and the United States for years after the sl@ve trade's official abolition.
In 1834, the British government outlawed sl@very in Britain and its American possessions, though not in its Asian colonies such as British India and what would become Sri Lanka.
The British government also paid 20 million pounds – the equivalent of around 17 billion pounds today – to compensate sl@ve owners for the lost capital associated with freeing sl@ves. This payout was a massive 40% of the government's budget and required many bonds to sl@ve owners to effectuate the law.
These obligations to sl@ve owners and institutions are the debts that were paid off by the UK government only in 2015.
Compensating sl@ve owners after abolition
The UK Treasury continued to compensate the descendants of sl@ve owners for decades after the abolition of sl@very in the empire. The payments were not scrutinized until the British Treasury tweeted out the historical fact in 2018.
"The amount of money borrowed for the Sl@very Abolition Act was so large that it wasn't paid off until 2015. Which means that living British citizens helped pay to end the sl@ve trade," the tweet read.
The tweet was widely criticized at the time, with many outraged that current British tax dollars were compensating the descendants of sl@ve owners. The Treasury later deleted the tweet.
While the British government hasn't disclosed a complete list of the recipient individuals and firms of bonds related to compensation for sl@ves, researchers at University College London have compiled a list of over 46,000 current individuals and groups who have received government payouts related to the abolition of sl@very. Many powerful British families, including current business and political elites in the United Kingdom, are among the recipients uncovered by the UCL team.
Yet not all recipients were already wealthy or became so due to the payouts; UCL records show many middle-class Britons also benefited from the bonds.
"Britain stood out among European states in its willingness to appease sl@ve owners, and to burden future generations of its citizens with the responsibility of paying for it," Kris Manjapra wrote for The Guardian in 2018.
Recently, economists and political scientists have debated whether the payouts were necessary for the successful abolition of sl@very, some arguing that political will would have been better used to compensate Black sl@ves instead.
I'm aware of what you are saying but I'm saying payments to compensate owners has not been done recently and was paid out in the 1830-40s
Mrs x
And I'm saying nevertheless they were still paid and it took until 2015 to pay it back. And it was also the victims tax money used to pay it back. "What victims? Were they victims in 2015? Or were they the beneficiaries of The efforts of their great great great grandparents efforts? | |||
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"And at the end of the day it's down to the government. " I suspect it's down to twitter and tik tok et al... Can't be seen to be anything other than cuddly and nice to anyone who shouts loudest with a grievance. | |||
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"Don't try and steer the conversation somewhere else illegal migrants has nothing to do with the subject of reparations. It was a valid statement. OK. So if in 300 years time, the normal thing is that people only work 1 day a week, and people then say that we were all sl*ve driven in 2024 even though it's perfectly legal now, would you expect your family to pay for that? Genuine question to you. Seriously. That doesn't deserve an answer. Oh yes It really does, but it's probably because you have no valid answer!! It's a dumb example! When was kidn@pping, child abuse and murder legal ?! Don't answer my question with a question!
No, all those other examples you've given are illegal, I'm talking about the legal working of 5 days a week, if in 300 years time it's classed as sl*very as the norm then is to work 1 day a week, would you expect your future family to pay for that? I'm starting to think you do not have an answer??
I don't argue with ignorance. I will not try to convince you to change your views. It's like trying to tell a serial killer to stop killing. But I tell you this, the descendants of sl@ves will be compensated whether it be by you or your great, great, great gand children. I've already answered."isn’t it just that Africans have done nothing to make Africa stand on its own two feet even with the hundreds probably thou sounds of of billions in aid so they keep coming for more and more because it’s become a charity continent what and why as Africa not caught upto to the west do you think aid money as a role to play in that ? | |||
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"My statement is - GET FUCKED. I had nothing to do with any sl@very, nor did any living relatives so if you think I'm agreeing to pay reparations you're sadly mistaken. You get fucked !" I'm good ta. I'm perfectly comfortable where am I  | |||
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"And at the end of the day it's down to the government. " British taxpayers have already done their bit. Anyone wanting reparations needs to go after: 1. African nations that enabled and facilitated 2. The organisations/decedents of those who received compensation in 1830-40s when abolished The British govt and British people need not do anything further. | |||
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" 1. African nations that enabled and facilitated " The African countries that actively waged war on other African states for the sole purpose of capturing and exporting people. As well as all intermediaries like the Uruba in Nigeria who made huge profits being middleman | |||
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"Don't try and steer the conversation somewhere else illegal migrants has nothing to do with the subject of reparations. It was a valid statement. OK. So if in 300 years time, the normal thing is that people only work 1 day a week, and people then say that we were all sl*ve driven in 2024 even though it's perfectly legal now, would you expect your family to pay for that? Genuine question to you. Seriously. That doesn't deserve an answer. Oh yes It really does, but it's probably because you have no valid answer!! It's a dumb example! When was kidn@pping, child abuse and murder legal ?! Don't answer my question with a question!
No, all those other examples you've given are illegal, I'm talking about the legal working of 5 days a week, if in 300 years time it's classed as sl*very as the norm then is to work 1 day a week, would you expect your future family to pay for that? I'm starting to think you do not have an answer??
I don't argue with ignorance. I will not try to convince you to change your views. It's like trying to tell a serial killer to stop killing. But I tell you this, the descendants of sl@ves will be compensated whether it be by you or your great, great, great gand children. I've already answered.isn’t it just that Africans have done nothing to make Africa stand on its own two feet even with the hundreds probably thou sounds of of billions in aid so they keep coming for more and more because it’s become a charity continent what and why as Africa not caught upto to the west do you think aid money as a role to play in that ?"I think you are on shaky historical grounds there. Colonialism and the post colonial division of Africa into “countries” using lines of latitude and longitude and natural boundaries that ignored local/historical tribal boundaries has been a major factor. As has the exploitation of natural resources and the sheer power of corporations during and after the scramble for Africa. | |||
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"Don't try and steer the conversation somewhere else illegal migrants has nothing to do with the subject of reparations. It was a valid statement. OK. So if in 300 years time, the normal thing is that people only work 1 day a week, and people then say that we were all sl*ve driven in 2024 even though it's perfectly legal now, would you expect your family to pay for that? Genuine question to you. Seriously. That doesn't deserve an answer. Oh yes It really does, but it's probably because you have no valid answer!! It's a dumb example! When was kidn@pping, child abuse and murder legal ?! Don't answer my question with a question!
No, all those other examples you've given are illegal, I'm talking about the legal working of 5 days a week, if in 300 years time it's classed as sl*very as the norm then is to work 1 day a week, would you expect your future family to pay for that? I'm starting to think you do not have an answer??
I don't argue with ignorance. I will not try to convince you to change your views. It's like trying to tell a serial killer to stop killing. But I tell you this, the descendants of sl@ves will be compensated whether it be by you or your great, great, great gand children. I've already answered."LOL. That is quite funny really. On current immigration rates if you take the great, great grandchildren to its ultimate conclusion. It will probably be the descendants of the relatives of sl@ves who will end up paying compensation to the descendants of sl@ves. Now that really would be a magic roundabout. | |||
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"Ultimately the people harping on about reparations just want the government to pay them They want free money under the guise of justice Life is hard. For the majority of people it's hard and historically it's been hard. Life is also optional Get on with it or quit, but whichever option you choose stop fucking whining " Yes. | |||
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"Ultimately the people harping on about reparations just want the government to pay them They want free money under the guise of justice Life is hard. For the majority of people it's hard and historically it's been hard. Life is also optional Get on with it or quit, but whichever option you choose stop fucking whining " This | |||
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"I love it, hope this threads stay up "Any further comment on African countries paying reparations? Or the granting of land and self determination to former sl@ve colonies despite not being indigenous? Or that British taxpayers have already done their bit over multiple generations by paying off the loans that enabled abolition? | |||
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"I love it, hope this threads stay up
Any further comment on African countries paying reparations?
Or the granting of land and self determination to former sl@ve colonies despite not being indigenous?
Or that British taxpayers have already done their bit over multiple generations by paying off the loans that enabled abolition?"Think you make some good points here, just shows how complicated this issue is. Still struggling to see how I've, or most of the subsequent generations, following abolition, have benefitted from this horrible practice. It cannot be from the fact I live in England and our society benefitted from slav@ry over hundreds of years ago. It's like saying I could seek recompense from the government because my ancestors were Serfs for over a thousand years during the Feudal system in England. Aa a woman could I now seek reparation from a system of marriage which just reduced my sex to that if chattel, being the actual property of my husband. In years gone by I'd have had no rights or privileges in regards to my marriage. I could be r@ped, day and night by my husband with no legal recourse or remedy. It was a husbands rights to be able to demand sex from his wife. And this was not in the distant past, only being made unlawful in 1991. History has some great things to look at as well as some truly awful. As much as I cannot take the credit for the great positive things that have happened before I was born, I surely cannot be blamed for the awful, terrible things that are strewn throughout human history. Mrs x | |||
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"I love it, hope this threads stay up
Any further comment on African countries paying reparations?
Or the granting of land and self determination to former sl@ve colonies despite not being indigenous?
Or that British taxpayers have already done their bit over multiple generations by paying off the loans that enabled abolition?Think you make some good points here, just shows how complicated this issue is.
Still struggling to see how I've, or most of the subsequent generations, following abolition, have benefitted from this horrible practice.
It cannot be from the fact I live in England and our society benefitted from slav@ry over hundreds of years ago.
It's like saying I could seek recompense from the government because my ancestors were Serfs for over a thousand years during the Feudal system in England.
Aa a woman could I now seek reparation from a system of marriage which just reduced my sex to that if chattel, being the actual property of my husband. In years gone by I'd have had no rights or privileges in regards to my marriage. I could be r@ped, day and night by my husband with no legal recourse or remedy. It was a husbands rights to be able to demand sex from his wife. And this was not in the distant past, only being made unlawful in 1991.
History has some great things to look at as well as some truly awful.
As much as I cannot take the credit for the great positive things that have happened before I was born, I surely cannot be blamed for the awful, terrible things that are strewn throughout human history.
Mrs x"Precisely | |||
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"Governments and Nations enabled and facilitated the sl@ve trade. That is where accountability and criminal proceedings need to occur. Governments need to prosecute themselves and other national governments for the practice and enablement. And there probably needs to be a worldwide court to facilitate this. " Maybe, but where do you draw the line in history? Barbary pirates ensl@ved people in Wales, Ireland and Cornwall as part of the Barbary sl@ve trade in the early 1600s. Will there be reparations under your plan? | |||
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"Governments and Nations enabled and facilitated the sl@ve trade. That is where accountability and criminal proceedings need to occur. Governments need to prosecute themselves and other national governments for the practice and enablement. And there probably needs to be a worldwide court to facilitate this. " Slav@ry has existed since humans first interacted with one another. So how far back do you think it's fair to go back with your proposed plan? Mrs x | |||
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"Governments and Nations enabled and facilitated the sl@ve trade. That is where accountability and criminal proceedings need to occur. Governments need to prosecute themselves and other national governments for the practice and enablement. And there probably needs to be a worldwide court to facilitate this. " How do you propose that the countries who ignore such things as there currently is with the international criminal court are made to abide by such? | |||
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"I love it, hope this threads stay up
Any further comment on African countries paying reparations?
Or the granting of land and self determination to former sl@ve colonies despite not being indigenous?
Or that British taxpayers have already done their bit over multiple generations by paying off the loans that enabled abolition?"I have already addressed that and so have others scroll up I am not going to repeat myself. | |||
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"Maybe, but where do you draw the line in history? Barbary pirates ensl@ved people in Wales, Ireland and Cornwall as part of the Barbary sl@ve trade in the early 1600s. Will there be reparations under your plan?" That would be up to the Global Court to decide when they decide the scope of the investigation. | |||
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"Governments and Nations enabled and facilitated the sl@ve trade. That is where accountability and criminal proceedings need to occur. Governments need to prosecute themselves and other national governments for the practice and enablement. And there probably needs to be a worldwide court to facilitate this. " Governments have changed. Should we ask from reparations from the Mongols for what Genghis Khan did? A worldwide court wouldn't be of any use unless there is a worldwide army to enforce the rulings of the court. I sincerely hope there isn't a worldwide government or a worldwide army. | |||
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"What are peoples perception of reparation, is it giving people money directly in their pocket? I said further up, if a country can prove that we as a country caused harm that is still visible today we could reroute foreign aid from countries with no claim. That money could be put towards building schools, or infrastructure to enable the country as it must be hindered. Would people calling for reparations be happy with that outcome, and people not wanting to provide reparation would you be happy that funding was moved in such away? " No reparations are necessary for the various reasons given. | |||
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"How do you propose that the countries who ignore such things as there currently is with the international criminal court are made to abide by such?" Not really for me to decide world law. Far better experts than me in that arena. But if the UN can be put together, I see no reason why something similar could not be achieved. Perhaps even the UN could do it, I don't know. | |||
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"How do you propose that the countries who ignore such things as there currently is with the international criminal court are made to abide by such? Not really for me to decide world law. Far better experts than me in that arena. But if the UN can be put together, I see no reason why something similar could not be achieved. Perhaps even the UN could do it, I don't know." Do you think the un. As completely useless as it is. Could be put together today? I don't think so. | |||
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"What are peoples perception of reparation, is it giving people money directly in their pocket? I said further up, if a country can prove that we as a country caused harm that is still visible today we could reroute foreign aid from countries with no claim. That money could be put towards building schools, or infrastructure to enable the country as it must be hindered. Would people calling for reparations be happy with that outcome, and people not wanting to provide reparation would you be happy that funding was moved in such away? No reparations are necessary for the various reasons given." Money please. | |||
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"What are peoples perception of reparation, is it giving people money directly in their pocket? I said further up, if a country can prove that we as a country caused harm that is still visible today we could reroute foreign aid from countries with no claim. That money could be put towards building schools, or infrastructure to enable the country as it must be hindered. Would people calling for reparations be happy with that outcome, and people not wanting to provide reparation would you be happy that funding was moved in such away? No reparations are necessary for the various reasons given." I have read lots of arguments but very little reasoning other than time as past, and there is not limit on time, all rather meaningless. There is little mention of what reparation would look like and why it could be needed. it makes me feel as though people consider reparation as handing money into the pockets of people who don't deserve it. There might be something I have missed, to be honest the posts have got rather repetitive and I could have skipped... | |||
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"How do you propose that the countries who ignore such things as there currently is with the international criminal court are made to abide by such? Not really for me to decide world law. Far better experts than me in that arena. But if the UN can be put together, I see no reason why something similar could not be achieved. Perhaps even the UN could do it, I don't know." But you believe that you can be found guilty of something you didn't do and it occurred hundreds of years ago?.. Mrs x | |||
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