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Uk to rejoin the EU
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" “The very hard Brexit forced through by Boris Johnson means that we are for now driving with the economic handbrake on – we can’t let that handbrake off. ” Mandelson said during his lecture. " They are talking like the EU countries' economies are racing ahead in their McLaren. | |||
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 . If started, it would take years to complete too. | |||
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"Mandelson is a pillock. The EU is dying. The future is away from it. The only countries wanting to join are Ukraine, Moldova and the like. You know the ones with their paws out asking for others money. Let Germany pay them. They wanted to rule Europe. Well they've got their wish." I know, and Ukraine will cost them a fortune! | |||
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"I’m loving BREXIT, will love it even more when it implemented properly. We will have to wait until 2029, when Reform UK, are elected at last. Nigel in No10, am loving it!" You may do but we are worse off as a nation because of it. Quite dramatically as well. Mrs x | |||
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"I’m loving BREXIT, will love it even more when it implemented properly. We will have to wait until 2029, when Reform UK, are elected at last. Nigel in No10, am loving it!" Curious. Can you describe how your life and that of your family and friends has improved as a result of Brexit? | |||
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"Mine has improved in terms of my employer is doing well and has passed on some of this success to the workforce. Accepted, we work in a very niche market." But nationally Brexit has been a disaster and most people would be worse off as a result, Mrs x | |||
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"Mine has improved in terms of my employer is doing well and has passed on some of this success to the workforce. Accepted, we work in a very niche market.But nationally Brexit has been a disaster and most people would be worse off as a result, Mrs x" Accepted it doesn't work for everyone. It works for some and our previous existance in the EU works for others. You can quote similar generalist language as I have but my bottom line is that my appraisal of the effects on the individual vary depending on what statistical nonsense I may throw at you (whether grabbed from brexit or rejoin viewpoints), whether my values on issues are adversely effected, whether influenced by whether I am a root cause brexiteer or rejoiner. It is all a matter of perspective and my personal view is that any attempt to rejoin would be equally as detrimental and costly than the fiasco of leaving. Therefore I believe it would not be worth the effort. | |||
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"I’m loving BREXIT, will love it even more when it implemented properly. We will have to wait until 2029, when Reform UK, are elected at last. Nigel in No10, am loving it! Curious. Can you describe how your life and that of your family and friends has improved as a result of Brexit?" I’m happier, as I always hated the EU. I work in the marina and in the whole things are good. I’m not going to describe it all, I prefer to keep my private life private. I still don’t believe that BREXIT has been properly implicated. I believe that all these mps have a vested interest in the EU. But I do believe in Nigel, and project 2029. So yeah, I’m a working class Reformer, and I’m bloody proud of it. | |||
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"Brexit was, and still is a disaster for the UK. It was sold to the public on a 'pack of lies'. In fact if you bought anything which was based upon such false claims, you are protected by law and could return the item for a full refund. Yet we are stuck with this shit show with no end in sight. We should have just stayed in the EU. Mrs x" Nope. | |||
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"Brexit was, and still is a disaster for the UK. It was sold to the public on a 'pack of lies'. In fact if you bought anything which was based upon such false claims, you are protected by law and could return the item for a full refund. Yet we are stuck with this shit show with no end in sight. We should have just stayed in the EU. Mrs x Nope. " Anyore to add or is that it? Mrs x | |||
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"I’m loving BREXIT, will love it even more when it implemented properly. We will have to wait until 2029, when Reform UK, are elected at last. Nigel in No10, am loving it! Curious. Can you describe how your life and that of your family and friends has improved as a result of Brexit? I’m happier, as I always hated the EU. I work in the marina and in the whole things are good. I’m not going to describe it all, I prefer to keep my private life private. I still don’t believe that BREXIT has been properly implicated. I believe that all these mps have a vested interest in the EU. But I do believe in Nigel, and project 2029. So yeah, I’m a working class Reformer, and I’m bloody proud of it." No facts just opinion, can you give any substantive reasoning behind what you're saying? Mrs x | |||
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"Labour peer, Peter mortgage fraud Mandelson says talks on UK rejoining EU could start in 10 years’ time. “The very hard Brexit forced through by Boris Johnson means that we are for now driving with the economic handbrake on – we can’t let that handbrake off. It is what is,” Mandelson said during his lecture. Mandelson’s remarks, at a lecture for the thinktank Reform Scotland, are in contrast to the Keir Starmers prediction before the general election that the UK would not rejoin the EU, or the single market or customs union, in his lifetime (guardian) Another u turn coming ? " I don't see what the government would gain by trying to rejoin the EU. Brexit has served it's purpose, widened the gap between the rich and poor, transferred more power from normal people to those at the top, provided opportunities for disaster capitalism. It's done no matter how much poorer the country remains. | |||
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"In 10 years the EU will be a total basket case "Exactly! It's funny how people act like EU is doing great economically and getting into EU again with be great for the UK. They are walking into irrelevance | |||
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"Mine has improved in terms of my employer is doing well and has passed on some of this success to the workforce. Accepted, we work in a very niche market." also have to agree, the demand in construction trades etc is so high its in the employees favior for once | |||
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"Brexit has been terrible for the UK. Bloomburg wrote on the 19th March 2024. 'Far from being the bloated, inefficient bureaucracy derided by Euroskeptics -- led by former UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson when he was the fabulist journalist for the London Telegraph -- who colored the prevailing Brexit media narrative, the EU economy is growing 2.3 percentage points faster than the UK’s on an annual basis, with GDP advancing 24% since 2016, compared with the 6% for the UK. During the 10 years before the Brexit referendum, EU GDP lagged behind the UK annually by 12 basis points, since 2000 by 9 basis points and the two decades preceding Brexit, by 149 basis points, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. The dichotomy is similar for GDP per individual among the 20 countries sharing the euro. The bloc’s per capita GDP increased 19%, or 2.19 percentage points more than the UK on annual basis since 2016, an overwhelming reversal of the decade prior to Brexit. During the 10 years preceding Brexit, annualized euro zone growth was barely eight basis points better than the UK, and between 2000 and 2016 the euro zone trailed the UK by six basis points. Contrary to the overwhelming perception, Britain had everything to gain from its EU inclusion and little to lose as the bloc expanded with the fall of the Soviet Union's Berlin Wall and rapid integration of Eastern European countries. Between 2011 and 2015, the EU's jobless rate expanded from 1.3 percentage points higher than the UK to 4.6 percentage points above. Only after the Brexit vote did the situation reverse, with the EU's additional joblessness rate narrowing to 2.9 percentage points as its citizens secured employment at a faster rate than their UK counterparts.'" What about debt? I understand that public sector employment has increased in the Eurozone. I'm not saying that an increase in public sector employment is a bad thing but it can be argued that it isn't wealth creative. Didn't Bloomberg contribute heavily to the remain campaign and why? | |||
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"Brexit has been terrible for the UK. Bloomburg wrote on the 19th March 2024. 'Far from being the bloated, inefficient bureaucracy derided by Euroskeptics -- led by former UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson when he was the fabulist journalist for the London Telegraph -- who colored the prevailing Brexit media narrative, the EU economy is growing 2.3 percentage points faster than the UK’s on an annual basis, with GDP advancing 24% since 2016, compared with the 6% for the UK. During the 10 years before the Brexit referendum, EU GDP lagged behind the UK annually by 12 basis points, since 2000 by 9 basis points and the two decades preceding Brexit, by 149 basis points, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. The dichotomy is similar for GDP per individual among the 20 countries sharing the euro. The bloc’s per capita GDP increased 19%, or 2.19 percentage points more than the UK on annual basis since 2016, an overwhelming reversal of the decade prior to Brexit. During the 10 years preceding Brexit, annualized euro zone growth was barely eight basis points better than the UK, and between 2000 and 2016 the euro zone trailed the UK by six basis points. Contrary to the overwhelming perception, Britain had everything to gain from its EU inclusion and little to lose as the bloc expanded with the fall of the Soviet Union's Berlin Wall and rapid integration of Eastern European countries. Between 2011 and 2015, the EU's jobless rate expanded from 1.3 percentage points higher than the UK to 4.6 percentage points above. Only after the Brexit vote did the situation reverse, with the EU's additional joblessness rate narrowing to 2.9 percentage points as its citizens secured employment at a faster rate than their UK counterparts.' What about debt? I understand that public sector employment has increased in the Eurozone. I'm not saying that an increase in public sector employment is a bad thing but it can be argued that it isn't wealth creative. Didn't Bloomberg contribute heavily to the remain campaign and why?" Don't know why but yes Bloomburg did, however it's not just Bloomburg that stresses how bad Brexit has been for the zUK. Goldman Sachs, the OBR and quite a few others who all claim we are 2.5% worse off by leaving the EU. 'Brexit has affected the UK's gross domestic product (GDP): Economic growth According to Statista, the UK's economy was 2.5% smaller in 2023 than it would have been if the UK had not left the EU. Goldman Sachs estimates that the UK economy has underperformed other advanced economies by 5% since Brexit, and that the actual impact may have been 4-8% of real GDP. Cost of living The average Briton was nearly £2,000 worse off in 2023, and the average Londoner was nearly £3,400 worse off. Trade The UK's total imports and exports to the European Union and the rest of the world decreased by 15%. Investment Brexit has created uncertainty for businesses, which has discouraged investment. Labor shortages There has been a decline in net migration from the EU, which has led to a shortage of skilled workers in the UK. Trade barriers Leaving the single market has increased trade barriers between the UK and the EU.' Yeah Brexit has been shit for the UK. Mrs x | |||
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"Yes, all well and good but did public debt increase in the Eurozone?" Beat me to it.... | |||
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"Brexit has been terrible for the UK. Bloomburg wrote on the 19th March 2024. 'Far from being the bloated, inefficient bureaucracy derided by Euroskeptics -- led by former UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson when he was the fabulist journalist for the London Telegraph -- who colored the prevailing Brexit media narrative, the EU economy is growing 2.3 percentage points faster than the UK’s on an annual basis, with GDP advancing 24% since 2016, compared with the 6% for the UK. During the 10 years before the Brexit referendum, EU GDP lagged behind the UK annually by 12 basis points, since 2000 by 9 basis points and the two decades preceding Brexit, by 149 basis points, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. The dichotomy is similar for GDP per individual among the 20 countries sharing the euro. The bloc’s per capita GDP increased 19%, or 2.19 percentage points more than the UK on annual basis since 2016, an overwhelming reversal of the decade prior to Brexit. During the 10 years preceding Brexit, annualized euro zone growth was barely eight basis points better than the UK, and between 2000 and 2016 the euro zone trailed the UK by six basis points. Contrary to the overwhelming perception, Britain had everything to gain from its EU inclusion and little to lose as the bloc expanded with the fall of the Soviet Union's Berlin Wall and rapid integration of Eastern European countries. Between 2011 and 2015, the EU's jobless rate expanded from 1.3 percentage points higher than the UK to 4.6 percentage points above. Only after the Brexit vote did the situation reverse, with the EU's additional joblessness rate narrowing to 2.9 percentage points as its citizens secured employment at a faster rate than their UK counterparts.' What about debt? I understand that public sector employment has increased in the Eurozone. I'm not saying that an increase in public sector employment is a bad thing but it can be argued that it isn't wealth creative. Didn't Bloomberg contribute heavily to the remain campaign and why?Don't know why but yes Bloomburg did, however it's not just Bloomburg that stresses how bad Brexit has been for the zUK. Goldman Sachs, the OBR and quite a few others who all claim we are 2.5% worse off by leaving the EU. 'Brexit has affected the UK's gross domestic product (GDP): Economic growth According to Statista, the UK's economy was 2.5% smaller in 2023 than it would have been if the UK had not left the EU. Goldman Sachs estimates that the UK economy has underperformed other advanced economies by 5% since Brexit, and that the actual impact may have been 4-8% of real GDP. Cost of living The average Briton was nearly £2,000 worse off in 2023, and the average Londoner was nearly £3,400 worse off. Trade The UK's total imports and exports to the European Union and the rest of the world decreased by 15%. Investment Brexit has created uncertainty for businesses, which has discouraged investment. Labor shortages There has been a decline in net migration from the EU, which has led to a shortage of skilled workers in the UK. Trade barriers Leaving the single market has increased trade barriers between the UK and the EU.' Yeah Brexit has been shit for the UK. Mrs x" Nothing you have said is guaranteed, it's all predictions from bodies who change those predictions within months and so are anything but reliable. Any govt has the powers to make Brexit a success but the Tories failed to implement them and the Labour party is unlikely to do so either. The idea of Brexit is not the problem, it's the implementation | |||
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"Brexit has been terrible for the UK. Bloomburg wrote on the 19th March 2024. 'Far from being the bloated, inefficient bureaucracy derided by Euroskeptics -- led by former UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson when he was the fabulist journalist for the London Telegraph -- who colored the prevailing Brexit media narrative, the EU economy is growing 2.3 percentage points faster than the UK’s on an annual basis, with GDP advancing 24% since 2016, compared with the 6% for the UK. During the 10 years before the Brexit referendum, EU GDP lagged behind the UK annually by 12 basis points, since 2000 by 9 basis points and the two decades preceding Brexit, by 149 basis points, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. The dichotomy is similar for GDP per individual among the 20 countries sharing the euro. The bloc’s per capita GDP increased 19%, or 2.19 percentage points more than the UK on annual basis since 2016, an overwhelming reversal of the decade prior to Brexit. During the 10 years preceding Brexit, annualized euro zone growth was barely eight basis points better than the UK, and between 2000 and 2016 the euro zone trailed the UK by six basis points. Contrary to the overwhelming perception, Britain had everything to gain from its EU inclusion and little to lose as the bloc expanded with the fall of the Soviet Union's Berlin Wall and rapid integration of Eastern European countries. Between 2011 and 2015, the EU's jobless rate expanded from 1.3 percentage points higher than the UK to 4.6 percentage points above. Only after the Brexit vote did the situation reverse, with the EU's additional joblessness rate narrowing to 2.9 percentage points as its citizens secured employment at a faster rate than their UK counterparts.' What about debt? I understand that public sector employment has increased in the Eurozone. I'm not saying that an increase in public sector employment is a bad thing but it can be argued that it isn't wealth creative. Didn't Bloomberg contribute heavily to the remain campaign and why?Don't know why but yes Bloomburg did, however it's not just Bloomburg that stresses how bad Brexit has been for the zUK. Goldman Sachs, the OBR and quite a few others who all claim we are 2.5% worse off by leaving the EU. 'Brexit has affected the UK's gross domestic product (GDP): Economic growth According to Statista, the UK's economy was 2.5% smaller in 2023 than it would have been if the UK had not left the EU. Goldman Sachs estimates that the UK economy has underperformed other advanced economies by 5% since Brexit, and that the actual impact may have been 4-8% of real GDP. Cost of living The average Briton was nearly £2,000 worse off in 2023, and the average Londoner was nearly £3,400 worse off. Trade The UK's total imports and exports to the European Union and the rest of the world decreased by 15%. Investment Brexit has created uncertainty for businesses, which has discouraged investment. Labor shortages There has been a decline in net migration from the EU, which has led to a shortage of skilled workers in the UK. Trade barriers Leaving the single market has increased trade barriers between the UK and the EU.' Yeah Brexit has been shit for the UK. Mrs x Nothing you have said is guaranteed, it's all predictions from bodies who change those predictions within months and so are anything but reliable. Any govt has the powers to make Brexit a success but the Tories failed to implement them and the Labour party is unlikely to do so either. The idea of Brexit is not the problem, it's the implementation " What could be done to make a success of Brexit? | |||
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" What could be done to make a success of Brexit? " A large tin of Brasso to polish that turd, I suspect. . I do wish there was more consideration to look at things from a macro viewpoint, i.e., beyond our borders at the wider picture. . Who stands to gain from a failed EU Superstate ? The competitors of the EU. That's the USA, China, Russia, the growing BRICS alliance, and a host of other nations. . The EU is a buffer in that regards and a very important one. Because if it goes, the vacuum will be filled by others we are unlikely to get on with. . You would see a fragmentation and a weakening of Europe's most successful political and trading project since WW2. . There may have been a "quaintness" about sovereign little countries with their quaint little customs, quaint little politics, and quaint little ways trying to make their way in an increasingly dangerous world with larger sharks circling the landmass. If the EU falls, many of these nations will be "easy pickings", NATO or not. . A divided Europe is a vulnerable Europe and our enemies know this. Anyone advocating the disintegration of the EU is either blindly ignoring this harsh reality, or actively supporting political ends which do not align in our country's considered interests. They align more with our enemies. . A successful EU is absolutely not in the best interests of the USA, Russia or China, which should tell all you need to know about how important its success is. . I don't proclaim it's perfect. No form of governance is nor ever will be. But the alternatives don't bear thinking about. | |||
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"The Aliens will be here long beforehand " Before Brexit becomes a success? | |||
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"Yes, all well and good but did public debt increase in the Eurozone? Beat me to it...." Not sure what your suggesting but here's some data you may find useful. ' ....information about public debt in the UK and the eurozone after Brexit: UK debt At the end of June 2024, the UK's public sector net debt was £2,524.4 billion, or around 91.6% of GDP. This was 16.8 percentage points higher than the EU average at the end of Quarter 1 2023. Eurozone debt The eurozone's government debt to GDP ratio decreased from 90.8% at the end of 2022 to 88.6% at the end of 2023.' Hope this helps, Mrs x | |||
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"If we take into account the impact of covid, we should be able to really understand the impact of Brexit on the UK by 2028 - 2030. until then we are simply discussing the short term disruption we can see, so what's the point? " No we are not. There's loads of financial analysis about Brexit and it's not good. Mrs x | |||
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" What could be done to make a success of Brexit? A large tin of Brasso to polish that turd, I suspect. . I do wish there was more consideration to look at things from a macro viewpoint, i.e., beyond our borders at the wider picture. . Who stands to gain from a failed EU Superstate ? The competitors of the EU. That's the USA, China, Russia, the growing BRICS alliance, and a host of other nations. . The EU is a buffer in that regards and a very important one. Because if it goes, the vacuum will be filled by others we are unlikely to get on with. . You would see a fragmentation and a weakening of Europe's most successful political and trading project since WW2. . There may have been a "quaintness" about sovereign little countries with their quaint little customs, quaint little politics, and quaint little ways trying to make their way in an increasingly dangerous world with larger sharks circling the landmass. If the EU falls, many of these nations will be "easy pickings", NATO or not. . A divided Europe is a vulnerable Europe and our enemies know this. Anyone advocating the disintegration of the EU is either blindly ignoring this harsh reality, or actively supporting political ends which do not align in our country's considered interests. They align more with our enemies. . A successful EU is absolutely not in the best interests of the USA, Russia or China, which should tell all you need to know about how important its success is. . I don't proclaim it's perfect. No form of governance is nor ever will be. But the alternatives don't bear thinking about." Agreed, Mrs x | |||
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"You also quote Statista .....guess who they are. A German pro EU platform perhaps? Where can we find untainted sources or sources which are a bit more neutral? While I wouldn't always discount what these sources may say, they must come with a health warning as the assumptions, while reasonable, may be slanted towards eliciting the desired responses (think Yes Minister and the discussion about National Service...ask the questions in a two ways and you can end up with opposing answers)." So a data gathering firm, founded in 2007, almost a decade before Brexit cannot be trusted because it's German and obviously pro Europe. Because that's how successful firms operate. Rather than provide accurate data and analysis they are going to prosper by giving tainted reports on data that's manipulated to suit their own narrative. Yeah right, that's going to enhance their reputation and global reach. Personally I don't think so. Mrs x | |||
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"Brexit has been terrible for the UK. Bloomburg wrote on the 19th March 2024. 'Far from being the bloated, inefficient bureaucracy derided by Euroskeptics -- led by former UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson when he was the fabulist journalist for the London Telegraph -- who colored the prevailing Brexit media narrative, the EU economy is growing 2.3 percentage points faster than the UK’s on an annual basis, with GDP advancing 24% since 2016, compared with the 6% for the UK. During the 10 years before the Brexit referendum, EU GDP lagged behind the UK annually by 12 basis points, since 2000 by 9 basis points and the two decades preceding Brexit, by 149 basis points, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. The dichotomy is similar for GDP per individual among the 20 countries sharing the euro. The bloc’s per capita GDP increased 19%, or 2.19 percentage points more than the UK on annual basis since 2016, an overwhelming reversal of the decade prior to Brexit. During the 10 years preceding Brexit, annualized euro zone growth was barely eight basis points better than the UK, and between 2000 and 2016 the euro zone trailed the UK by six basis points. Contrary to the overwhelming perception, Britain had everything to gain from its EU inclusion and little to lose as the bloc expanded with the fall of the Soviet Union's Berlin Wall and rapid integration of Eastern European countries. Between 2011 and 2015, the EU's jobless rate expanded from 1.3 percentage points higher than the UK to 4.6 percentage points above. Only after the Brexit vote did the situation reverse, with the EU's additional joblessness rate narrowing to 2.9 percentage points as its citizens secured employment at a faster rate than their UK counterparts.' What about debt? I understand that public sector employment has increased in the Eurozone. I'm not saying that an increase in public sector employment is a bad thing but it can be argued that it isn't wealth creative. Didn't Bloomberg contribute heavily to the remain campaign and why?Don't know why but yes Bloomburg did, however it's not just Bloomburg that stresses how bad Brexit has been for the zUK. Goldman Sachs, the OBR and quite a few others who all claim we are 2.5% worse off by leaving the EU. 'Brexit has affected the UK's gross domestic product (GDP): Economic growth According to Statista, the UK's economy was 2.5% smaller in 2023 than it would have been if the UK had not left the EU. Goldman Sachs estimates that the UK economy has underperformed other advanced economies by 5% since Brexit, and that the actual impact may have been 4-8% of real GDP. Cost of living The average Briton was nearly £2,000 worse off in 2023, and the average Londoner was nearly £3,400 worse off. Trade The UK's total imports and exports to the European Union and the rest of the world decreased by 15%. Investment Brexit has created uncertainty for businesses, which has discouraged investment. Labor shortages There has been a decline in net migration from the EU, which has led to a shortage of skilled workers in the UK. Trade barriers Leaving the single market has increased trade barriers between the UK and the EU.' Yeah Brexit has been shit for the UK. Mrs x Nothing you have said is guaranteed, it's all predictions from bodies who change those predictions within months and so are anything but reliable. Any govt has the powers to make Brexit a success but the Tories failed to implement them and the Labour party is unlikely to do so either. The idea of Brexit is not the problem, it's the implementation " | |||
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"If we take into account the impact of covid, we should be able to really understand the impact of Brexit on the UK by 2028 - 2030. until then we are simply discussing the short term disruption we can see, so what's the point? No we are not. There's loads of financial analysis about Brexit and it's not good. Mrs x" Reports now show short term disruption of Brexit, these things are important to understand to be able to form a considered opinion. | |||
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"Yes, all well and good but did public debt increase in the Eurozone? Beat me to it.... Not sure what your suggesting but here's some data you may find useful. ' ....information about public debt in the UK and the eurozone after Brexit: UK debt At the end of June 2024, the UK's public sector net debt was £2,524.4 billion, or around 91.6% of GDP. This was 16.8 percentage points higher than the EU average at the end of Quarter 1 2023. Eurozone debt The eurozone's government debt to GDP ratio decreased from 90.8% at the end of 2022 to 88.6% at the end of 2023.' Hope this helps, Mrs x " Not good data to be honest, it is like comparing apples and oranges and is only in circulation to provided bias support in my opinion. Comparing the UK to the whole EU smooths out the extremes and ignores the fact that countries like France has debt at approx 112% of GDP and faces different challenges to Germany at 66.4%. The UK stands somewhere between, it makes more sense to compare the UK with individual nations that match in size, complexity, and structure not the whole bloc. | |||
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"Brexit has been terrible for the UK. Bloomburg wrote on the 19th March 2024. 'Far from being the bloated, inefficient bureaucracy derided by Euroskeptics -- led by former UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson when he was the fabulist journalist for the London Telegraph -- who colored the prevailing Brexit media narrative, the EU economy is growing 2.3 percentage points faster than the UK’s on an annual basis, with GDP advancing 24% since 2016, compared with the 6% for the UK. During the 10 years before the Brexit referendum, EU GDP lagged behind the UK annually by 12 basis points, since 2000 by 9 basis points and the two decades preceding Brexit, by 149 basis points, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. The dichotomy is similar for GDP per individual among the 20 countries sharing the euro. The bloc’s per capita GDP increased 19%, or 2.19 percentage points more than the UK on annual basis since 2016, an overwhelming reversal of the decade prior to Brexit. During the 10 years preceding Brexit, annualized euro zone growth was barely eight basis points better than the UK, and between 2000 and 2016 the euro zone trailed the UK by six basis points. Contrary to the overwhelming perception, Britain had everything to gain from its EU inclusion and little to lose as the bloc expanded with the fall of the Soviet Union's Berlin Wall and rapid integration of Eastern European countries. Between 2011 and 2015, the EU's jobless rate expanded from 1.3 percentage points higher than the UK to 4.6 percentage points above. Only after the Brexit vote did the situation reverse, with the EU's additional joblessness rate narrowing to 2.9 percentage points as its citizens secured employment at a faster rate than their UK counterparts.' What about debt? I understand that public sector employment has increased in the Eurozone. I'm not saying that an increase in public sector employment is a bad thing but it can be argued that it isn't wealth creative. Didn't Bloomberg contribute heavily to the remain campaign and why?Don't know why but yes Bloomburg did, however it's not just Bloomburg that stresses how bad Brexit has been for the zUK. Goldman Sachs, the OBR and quite a few others who all claim we are 2.5% worse off by leaving the EU. 'Brexit has affected the UK's gross domestic product (GDP): Economic growth According to Statista, the UK's economy was 2.5% smaller in 2023 than it would have been if the UK had not left the EU. Goldman Sachs estimates that the UK economy has underperformed other advanced economies by 5% since Brexit, and that the actual impact may have been 4-8% of real GDP. Cost of living The average Briton was nearly £2,000 worse off in 2023, and the average Londoner was nearly £3,400 worse off. Trade The UK's total imports and exports to the European Union and the rest of the world decreased by 15%. Investment Brexit has created uncertainty for businesses, which has discouraged investment. Labor shortages There has been a decline in net migration from the EU, which has led to a shortage of skilled workers in the UK. Trade barriers Leaving the single market has increased trade barriers between the UK and the EU.' Yeah Brexit has been shit for the UK. Mrs x Nothing you have said is guaranteed, it's all predictions from bodies who change those predictions within months and so are anything but reliable. Any govt has the powers to make Brexit a success but the Tories failed to implement them and the Labour party is unlikely to do so either. The idea of Brexit is not the problem, it's the implementation " Thanks for your reply. Think it's flawed because of your prediction statement. Last time I looked predictions are look8ng into the future. I haven't posted anything predictive. My post is analytical, looking at data from the past and the near past to present a picture of the situation at a particular time and of a particular event. In this case it's Brexit and the posts I have put up include analysis up to early this year. So up to this point that's the evidence of experts in the field and yes opinions can change but not at present it seems. As for the quality of this information, these are world renowned financial and analytical experts and I'm putting my faith in them rather than anyone on a swingers forum. So in conclusion, it's not prediction it's fact. Mrs x | |||
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"If we take into account the impact of covid, we should be able to really understand the impact of Brexit on the UK by 2028 - 2030. until then we are simply discussing the short term disruption we can see, so what's the point? " You're right, it's going to be even worse then. Won't stop people still hanging on to the false dream they were sold. | |||
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"If we take into account the impact of covid, we should be able to really understand the impact of Brexit on the UK by 2028 - 2030. until then we are simply discussing the short term disruption we can see, so what's the point? No we are not. There's loads of financial analysis about Brexit and it's not good. Mrs x Reports now show short term disruption of Brexit, these things are important to understand to be able to form a considered opinion." This is true. So far there's no news about when any indication of anything positive from Brexit might be revealed. The vote was over 8 years ago, and still nothing, not a peep. Don't forget people were told: "there is no downside to Brexit, only a considerable upside". The "The Davis Downside Dossier" makes a depressing read. They're currently at 2071 downsides. | |||
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"If we take into account the impact of covid, we should be able to really understand the impact of Brexit on the UK by 2028 - 2030. until then we are simply discussing the short term disruption we can see, so what's the point? No we are not. There's loads of financial analysis about Brexit and it's not good. Mrs x Reports now show short term disruption of Brexit, these things are important to understand to be able to form a considered opinion. This is true. So far there's no news about when any indication of anything positive from Brexit might be revealed. The vote was over 8 years ago, and still nothing, not a peep. Don't forget people were told: "there is no downside to Brexit, only a considerable upside". The "The Davis Downside Dossier" makes a depressing read. They're currently at 2071 downsides." Possibly correct but hard to tell in the transition when disruption is expected. However, by 2028-2030, I’d expect a sea change in policy, especially if the geopolitical situation gets any messier than it already is, and once the real costs of Brexit are fully visible. The talk of rejoining could start creeping in as we step up to that period, maybe 2027 - 28 which would lay the foundations for negotiation and test the appetite of the public here and on the mainland. | |||
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"If we take into account the impact of covid, we should be able to really understand the impact of Brexit on the UK by 2028 - 2030. until then we are simply discussing the short term disruption we can see, so what's the point? No we are not. There's loads of financial analysis about Brexit and it's not good. Mrs x Reports now show short term disruption of Brexit, these things are important to understand to be able to form a considered opinion. This is true. So far there's no news about when any indication of anything positive from Brexit might be revealed. The vote was over 8 years ago, and still nothing, not a peep. Don't forget people were told: "there is no downside to Brexit, only a considerable upside". The "The Davis Downside Dossier" makes a depressing read. They're currently at 2071 downsides. Possibly correct but hard to tell in the transition when disruption is expected. However, by 2028-2030, I’d expect a sea change in policy, especially if the geopolitical situation gets any messier than it already is, and once the real costs of Brexit are fully visible. The talk of rejoining could start creeping in as we step up to that period, maybe 2027 - 28 which would lay the foundations for negotiation and test the appetite of the public here and on the mainland. " Anyone thinking rejoining the EU would be like waving a magic wand, suddenly making everything better should reset their expectations. It won't suddenly undo the damage done. We should be looking at all the options to try to mitigate against Brexit as best we can. | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"If we take into account the impact of covid, we should be able to really understand the impact of Brexit on the UK by 2028 - 2030. until then we are simply discussing the short term disruption we can see, so what's the point? No we are not. There's loads of financial analysis about Brexit and it's not good. Mrs x Reports now show short term disruption of Brexit, these things are important to understand to be able to form a considered opinion. This is true. So far there's no news about when any indication of anything positive from Brexit might be revealed. The vote was over 8 years ago, and still nothing, not a peep. Don't forget people were told: "there is no downside to Brexit, only a considerable upside". The "The Davis Downside Dossier" makes a depressing read. They're currently at 2071 downsides. Possibly correct but hard to tell in the transition when disruption is expected. However, by 2028-2030, I’d expect a sea change in policy, especially if the geopolitical situation gets any messier than it already is, and once the real costs of Brexit are fully visible. The talk of rejoining could start creeping in as we step up to that period, maybe 2027 - 28 which would lay the foundations for negotiation and test the appetite of the public here and on the mainland. Anyone thinking rejoining the EU would be like waving a magic wand, suddenly making everything better should reset their expectations. It won't suddenly undo the damage done. We should be looking at all the options to try to mitigate against Brexit as best we can. " Agreed, the magic wand people want by rejoining won’t magically bring back the glory days, they never really happened. It’ll just shift the narrative, people will end up feeling like they were sold another dream of better outcomes from rejoining. The reality is, the EU has changed. It’s gone from being a trade bloc to something with more control over local governance, and that’s part of its downfall. They need to be more self-aware about that, or the EU will continue to face challenge to its structure. | |||
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"In my own (part time) business, I've moved from UK to EU based suppliers to avoid charges. And for my job, since 2022 not one project is going to our UK site; all projects going to EU based plants. We are a large global manufacturing multi-national so the trend will only continue for UK manufactured goods" The shift you’re seeing isn’t surprising, Brexit tariffs and extra admin costs have pushed a lot of companies to switch to EU suppliers or into the EU itself. The rules of origin requirements making UK exports more expensive. Even though there are zero tariffs in theory, red tape is a painful cost is the feedback. Better deals and cutting the red tape, will bring us closer to the EU markets and a step closer to some type of rejoin all but in name. | |||
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"Yes, all well and good but did public debt increase in the Eurozone? Beat me to it.... Not sure what your suggesting but here's some data you may find useful. ' ....information about public debt in the UK and the eurozone after Brexit: UK debt At the end of June 2024, the UK's public sector net debt was £2,524.4 billion, or around 91.6% of GDP. This was 16.8 percentage points higher than the EU average at the end of Quarter 1 2023. Eurozone debt The eurozone's government debt to GDP ratio decreased from 90.8% at the end of 2022 to 88.6% at the end of 2023.' Hope this helps, Mrs x Not good data to be honest, it is like comparing apples and oranges and is only in circulation to provided bias support in my opinion. Comparing the UK to the whole EU smooths out the extremes and ignores the fact that countries like France has debt at approx 112% of GDP and faces different challenges to Germany at 66.4%. The UK stands somewhere between, it makes more sense to compare the UK with individual nations that match in size, complexity, and structure not the whole bloc. " It's amazes me when you say that in your 'opinion', when discussing such issues but there's no evidence, sources or data. You think your opinion is stronger than the data from world leading experts? Honestly? Saying its not 'good data' is laughable because obviously you know better than Goldman Sachs and Bloomburg. And then you use claims of things being 'biased' when they don't suit your narrative. Why would experts who deal in selling analytical data risk their reputation by providing tainted information, they wouldn't? It would lead to lose of business and financial ruin, which is not happening to these institutions, they appear to be thriving. I think someone's showing bias but it's not the experts. As for your point about comparing country with country that's just silly. Brexit meant us leaving the EU not individual countries, so of course we should be compared with the EU as a whole. You fail to grasp that by basing it on individual countries then yes we might be performing better than the worse performing countries but we'd be performing worse than the best. In fact the worse performing countries within the EU are actually pulling down the average for the bloc. You really do make me giggle. Mrs x | |||
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"If we take into account the impact of covid, we should be able to really understand the impact of Brexit on the UK by 2028 - 2030. until then we are simply discussing the short term disruption we can see, so what's the point? No we are not. There's loads of financial analysis about Brexit and it's not good. Mrs x Reports now show short term disruption of Brexit, these things are important to understand to be able to form a considered opinion. This is true. So far there's no news about when any indication of anything positive from Brexit might be revealed. The vote was over 8 years ago, and still nothing, not a peep. Don't forget people were told: "there is no downside to Brexit, only a considerable upside". The "The Davis Downside Dossier" makes a depressing read. They're currently at 2071 downsides. Possibly correct but hard to tell in the transition when disruption is expected. However, by 2028-2030, I’d expect a sea change in policy, especially if the geopolitical situation gets any messier than it already is, and once the real costs of Brexit are fully visible. The talk of rejoining could start creeping in as we step up to that period, maybe 2027 - 28 which would lay the foundations for negotiation and test the appetite of the public here and on the mainland. " Prediction and opinion, still... Pity you didn't use that crystal ball before we left the EU to prevent us all going through this shit show. Mrs x | |||
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"Yes, all well and good but did public debt increase in the Eurozone? Beat me to it.... Not sure what your suggesting but here's some data you may find useful. ' ....information about public debt in the UK and the eurozone after Brexit: UK debt At the end of June 2024, the UK's public sector net debt was £2,524.4 billion, or around 91.6% of GDP. This was 16.8 percentage points higher than the EU average at the end of Quarter 1 2023. Eurozone debt The eurozone's government debt to GDP ratio decreased from 90.8% at the end of 2022 to 88.6% at the end of 2023.' Hope this helps, Mrs x Not good data to be honest, it is like comparing apples and oranges and is only in circulation to provided bias support in my opinion. Comparing the UK to the whole EU smooths out the extremes and ignores the fact that countries like France has debt at approx 112% of GDP and faces different challenges to Germany at 66.4%. The UK stands somewhere between, it makes more sense to compare the UK with individual nations that match in size, complexity, and structure not the whole bloc. It's amazes me when you say that in your 'opinion', when discussing such issues but there's no evidence, sources or data. You think your opinion is stronger than the data from world leading experts? Honestly? Saying its not 'good data' is laughable because obviously you know better than Goldman Sachs and Bloomburg. And then you use claims of things being 'biased' when they don't suit your narrative. Why would experts who deal in selling analytical data risk their reputation by providing tainted information, they wouldn't? It would lead to lose of business and financial ruin, which is not happening to these institutions, they appear to be thriving. I think someone's showing bias but it's not the experts. As for your point about comparing country with country that's just silly. Brexit meant us leaving the EU not individual countries, so of course we should be compared with the EU as a whole. You fail to grasp that by basing it on individual countries then yes we might be performing better than the worse performing countries but we'd be performing worse than the best. In fact the worse performing countries within the EU are actually pulling down the average for the bloc. You really do make me giggle. Mrs x" It is about understanding the data that is being presented, I do. | |||
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"If we take into account the impact of covid, we should be able to really understand the impact of Brexit on the UK by 2028 - 2030. until then we are simply discussing the short term disruption we can see, so what's the point? No we are not. There's loads of financial analysis about Brexit and it's not good. Mrs x Reports now show short term disruption of Brexit, these things are important to understand to be able to form a considered opinion. This is true. So far there's no news about when any indication of anything positive from Brexit might be revealed. The vote was over 8 years ago, and still nothing, not a peep. Don't forget people were told: "there is no downside to Brexit, only a considerable upside". The "The Davis Downside Dossier" makes a depressing read. They're currently at 2071 downsides. Possibly correct but hard to tell in the transition when disruption is expected. However, by 2028-2030, I’d expect a sea change in policy, especially if the geopolitical situation gets any messier than it already is, and once the real costs of Brexit are fully visible. The talk of rejoining could start creeping in as we step up to that period, maybe 2027 - 28 which would lay the foundations for negotiation and test the appetite of the public here and on the mainland. Prediction and opinion, still... Pity you didn't use that crystal ball before we left the EU to prevent us all going through this shit show. Mrs x" You could ask why I came to me conclusion, and progress the discussion, you could be surprised but there again.... I put my opinion and prediction in writing to help that not hinder it, how you interact is in your gift | |||
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"If we take into account the impact of covid, we should be able to really understand the impact of Brexit on the UK by 2028 - 2030. until then we are simply discussing the short term disruption we can see, so what's the point? No we are not. There's loads of financial analysis about Brexit and it's not good. Mrs x Reports now show short term disruption of Brexit, these things are important to understand to be able to form a considered opinion. This is true. So far there's no news about when any indication of anything positive from Brexit might be revealed. The vote was over 8 years ago, and still nothing, not a peep. Don't forget people were told: "there is no downside to Brexit, only a considerable upside". The "The Davis Downside Dossier" makes a depressing read. They're currently at 2071 downsides. Possibly correct but hard to tell in the transition when disruption is expected. However, by 2028-2030, I’d expect a sea change in policy, especially if the geopolitical situation gets any messier than it already is, and once the real costs of Brexit are fully visible. The talk of rejoining could start creeping in as we step up to that period, maybe 2027 - 28 which would lay the foundations for negotiation and test the appetite of the public here and on the mainland. Prediction and opinion, still... Pity you didn't use that crystal ball before we left the EU to prevent us all going through this shit show. Mrs x You could ask why I came to me conclusion, and progress the discussion, you could be surprised but there again.... I put my opinion and prediction in writing to help that not hinder it, how you interact is in your gift "You could have been 'altruistic' to the rest of us poor posters but you chose not to. I could ask why you do that? Is it because you want us to hang on your every post and then marvel at your extensive research, or... You are just quoting your opinion with no substantive evidence to back this up and when asked you cannot supply anything and say something like 'well you should have asked for my evidence first and I'm not going to show it now'. I have an 'opinion' on which option it is but I'm not going to show you my reasoning now... Mrs x | |||
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"Yes, all well and good but did public debt increase in the Eurozone? Beat me to it.... Not sure what your suggesting but here's some data you may find useful. ' ....information about public debt in the UK and the eurozone after Brexit: UK debt At the end of June 2024, the UK's public sector net debt was £2,524.4 billion, or around 91.6% of GDP. This was 16.8 percentage points higher than the EU average at the end of Quarter 1 2023. Eurozone debt The eurozone's government debt to GDP ratio decreased from 90.8% at the end of 2022 to 88.6% at the end of 2023.' Hope this helps, Mrs x Not good data to be honest, it is like comparing apples and oranges and is only in circulation to provided bias support in my opinion. Comparing the UK to the whole EU smooths out the extremes and ignores the fact that countries like France has debt at approx 112% of GDP and faces different challenges to Germany at 66.4%. The UK stands somewhere between, it makes more sense to compare the UK with individual nations that match in size, complexity, and structure not the whole bloc. It's amazes me when you say that in your 'opinion', when discussing such issues but there's no evidence, sources or data. You think your opinion is stronger than the data from world leading experts? Honestly? Saying its not 'good data' is laughable because obviously you know better than Goldman Sachs and Bloomburg. And then you use claims of things being 'biased' when they don't suit your narrative. Why would experts who deal in selling analytical data risk their reputation by providing tainted information, they wouldn't? It would lead to lose of business and financial ruin, which is not happening to these institutions, they appear to be thriving. I think someone's showing bias but it's not the experts. As for your point about comparing country with country that's just silly. Brexit meant us leaving the EU not individual countries, so of course we should be compared with the EU as a whole. You fail to grasp that by basing it on individual countries then yes we might be performing better than the worse performing countries but we'd be performing worse than the best. In fact the worse performing countries within the EU are actually pulling down the average for the bloc. You really do make me giggle. Mrs x It is about understanding the data that is being presented, I do." Oh course you do, much more so than the worlds leading experts in the field who are presenting it apparently haha, you are so funny. Mrs x | |||
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"If we take into account the impact of covid, we should be able to really understand the impact of Brexit on the UK by 2028 - 2030. until then we are simply discussing the short term disruption we can see, so what's the point? No we are not. There's loads of financial analysis about Brexit and it's not good. Mrs x Reports now show short term disruption of Brexit, these things are important to understand to be able to form a considered opinion. This is true. So far there's no news about when any indication of anything positive from Brexit might be revealed. The vote was over 8 years ago, and still nothing, not a peep. Don't forget people were told: "there is no downside to Brexit, only a considerable upside". The "The Davis Downside Dossier" makes a depressing read. They're currently at 2071 downsides. Possibly correct but hard to tell in the transition when disruption is expected. However, by 2028-2030, I’d expect a sea change in policy, especially if the geopolitical situation gets any messier than it already is, and once the real costs of Brexit are fully visible. The talk of rejoining could start creeping in as we step up to that period, maybe 2027 - 28 which would lay the foundations for negotiation and test the appetite of the public here and on the mainland. Prediction and opinion, still... Pity you didn't use that crystal ball before we left the EU to prevent us all going through this shit show. Mrs x You could ask why I came to me conclusion, and progress the discussion, you could be surprised but there again.... I put my opinion and prediction in writing to help that not hinder it, how you interact is in your gift You could have been 'altruistic' to the rest of us poor posters but you chose not to.
I could ask why you do that?
Is it because you want us to hang on your every post and then marvel at your extensive research, or...
You are just quoting your opinion with no substantive evidence to back this up and when asked you cannot supply anything and say something like 'well you should have asked for my evidence first and I'm not going to show it now'.
I have an 'opinion' on which option it is but I'm not going to show you my reasoning now...
Mrs x"Why would I want you or anyone to hang on my posts, is this what plays out in you mind. 
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"Yes, all well and good but did public debt increase in the Eurozone? Beat me to it.... Not sure what your suggesting but here's some data you may find useful. ' ....information about public debt in the UK and the eurozone after Brexit: UK debt At the end of June 2024, the UK's public sector net debt was £2,524.4 billion, or around 91.6% of GDP. This was 16.8 percentage points higher than the EU average at the end of Quarter 1 2023. Eurozone debt The eurozone's government debt to GDP ratio decreased from 90.8% at the end of 2022 to 88.6% at the end of 2023.' Hope this helps, Mrs x Not good data to be honest, it is like comparing apples and oranges and is only in circulation to provided bias support in my opinion. Comparing the UK to the whole EU smooths out the extremes and ignores the fact that countries like France has debt at approx 112% of GDP and faces different challenges to Germany at 66.4%. The UK stands somewhere between, it makes more sense to compare the UK with individual nations that match in size, complexity, and structure not the whole bloc. It's amazes me when you say that in your 'opinion', when discussing such issues but there's no evidence, sources or data. You think your opinion is stronger than the data from world leading experts? Honestly? Saying its not 'good data' is laughable because obviously you know better than Goldman Sachs and Bloomburg. And then you use claims of things being 'biased' when they don't suit your narrative. Why would experts who deal in selling analytical data risk their reputation by providing tainted information, they wouldn't? It would lead to lose of business and financial ruin, which is not happening to these institutions, they appear to be thriving. I think someone's showing bias but it's not the experts. As for your point about comparing country with country that's just silly. Brexit meant us leaving the EU not individual countries, so of course we should be compared with the EU as a whole. You fail to grasp that by basing it on individual countries then yes we might be performing better than the worse performing countries but we'd be performing worse than the best. In fact the worse performing countries within the EU are actually pulling down the average for the bloc. You really do make me giggle. Mrs x It is about understanding the data that is being presented, I do.Oh course you do, much more so than the worlds leading experts in the field who are presenting it apparently haha, you are so funny. Mrs x" I do, and you not so and I don't mean that in a rude way, as I would not expect to have a great understanding of many core skills / services outside those I charge for. | |||
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"Yes, all well and good but did public debt increase in the Eurozone? Beat me to it.... Not sure what your suggesting but here's some data you may find useful. ' ....information about public debt in the UK and the eurozone after Brexit: UK debt At the end of June 2024, the UK's public sector net debt was £2,524.4 billion, or around 91.6% of GDP. This was 16.8 percentage points higher than the EU average at the end of Quarter 1 2023. Eurozone debt The eurozone's government debt to GDP ratio decreased from 90.8% at the end of 2022 to 88.6% at the end of 2023.' Hope this helps, Mrs x Not good data to be honest, it is like comparing apples and oranges and is only in circulation to provided bias support in my opinion. Comparing the UK to the whole EU smooths out the extremes and ignores the fact that countries like France has debt at approx 112% of GDP and faces different challenges to Germany at 66.4%. The UK stands somewhere between, it makes more sense to compare the UK with individual nations that match in size, complexity, and structure not the whole bloc. It's amazes me when you say that in your 'opinion', when discussing such issues but there's no evidence, sources or data. You think your opinion is stronger than the data from world leading experts? Honestly? Saying its not 'good data' is laughable because obviously you know better than Goldman Sachs and Bloomburg. And then you use claims of things being 'biased' when they don't suit your narrative. Why would experts who deal in selling analytical data risk their reputation by providing tainted information, they wouldn't? It would lead to lose of business and financial ruin, which is not happening to these institutions, they appear to be thriving. I think someone's showing bias but it's not the experts. As for your point about comparing country with country that's just silly. Brexit meant us leaving the EU not individual countries, so of course we should be compared with the EU as a whole. You fail to grasp that by basing it on individual countries then yes we might be performing better than the worse performing countries but we'd be performing worse than the best. In fact the worse performing countries within the EU are actually pulling down the average for the bloc. You really do make me giggle. Mrs x It is about understanding the data that is being presented, I do.Oh course you do, much more so than the worlds leading experts in the field who are presenting it apparently haha, you are so funny. Mrs x I do, and you not so and I don't mean that in a rude way, as I would not expect to have a great understanding of many core skills / services outside those I charge for. " Again you are saying things that maybe you should have thought about before saying them. You say that you do understand the data the experts are delivering. You set yourself up as an authority in this field as you say you charge for such services. You then go on to say that although you understand the data that I 'not so'. That's your problem, I never said I did. But I can read and understand the conclusions presented by the experts. It is these conclusions, their work on the available data that I reference on this thread. World class analysis on the effects of Brexit upon the UK. It is their work, not my opinion you say is poor data, and not correct. Now I have no idea how much of an expert in this field you are but unless you working for such firms as Goldman Sachs and Bloomburg at a senior level I'm going to be swayed by their argument and conclusions, rather than yours. There are tons of high street accountants and lawyers but very few that reach the heights of Goldman Sachs and their competitors. I have a first aid certificate but I wouldn't argue with the opinion of any medical consultant, even though we both have medical training. It's all about the level wouldn't you agree, sorry don't know why I asked that because of course you won't. Anyway disagree with world class expert advice but remember it doesn't strengthen your argument and unless you provide counter arguments, sourced at the same level it's just your opinion. Mrs x | |||
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"Yes, all well and good but did public debt increase in the Eurozone? Beat me to it.... Not sure what your suggesting but here's some data you may find useful. ' ....information about public debt in the UK and the eurozone after Brexit: UK debt At the end of June 2024, the UK's public sector net debt was £2,524.4 billion, or around 91.6% of GDP. This was 16.8 percentage points higher than the EU average at the end of Quarter 1 2023. Eurozone debt The eurozone's government debt to GDP ratio decreased from 90.8% at the end of 2022 to 88.6% at the end of 2023.' Hope this helps, Mrs x Not good data to be honest, it is like comparing apples and oranges and is only in circulation to provided bias support in my opinion. Comparing the UK to the whole EU smooths out the extremes and ignores the fact that countries like France has debt at approx 112% of GDP and faces different challenges to Germany at 66.4%. The UK stands somewhere between, it makes more sense to compare the UK with individual nations that match in size, complexity, and structure not the whole bloc. It's amazes me when you say that in your 'opinion', when discussing such issues but there's no evidence, sources or data. You think your opinion is stronger than the data from world leading experts? Honestly? Saying its not 'good data' is laughable because obviously you know better than Goldman Sachs and Bloomburg. And then you use claims of things being 'biased' when they don't suit your narrative. Why would experts who deal in selling analytical data risk their reputation by providing tainted information, they wouldn't? It would lead to lose of business and financial ruin, which is not happening to these institutions, they appear to be thriving. I think someone's showing bias but it's not the experts. As for your point about comparing country with country that's just silly. Brexit meant us leaving the EU not individual countries, so of course we should be compared with the EU as a whole. You fail to grasp that by basing it on individual countries then yes we might be performing better than the worse performing countries but we'd be performing worse than the best. In fact the worse performing countries within the EU are actually pulling down the average for the bloc. You really do make me giggle. Mrs x It is about understanding the data that is being presented, I do.Oh course you do, much more so than the worlds leading experts in the field who are presenting it apparently haha, you are so funny. Mrs x I do, and you not so and I don't mean that in a rude way, as I would not expect to have a great understanding of many core skills / services outside those I charge for. Again you are saying things that maybe you should have thought about before saying them. You say that you do understand the data the experts are delivering. You set yourself up as an authority in this field as you say you charge for such services. You then go on to say that although you understand the data that I 'not so'. That's your problem, I never said I did. But I can read and understand the conclusions presented by the experts. It is these conclusions, their work on the available data that I reference on this thread. World class analysis on the effects of Brexit upon the UK. It is their work, not my opinion you say is poor data, and not correct. Now I have no idea how much of an expert in this field you are but unless you working for such firms as Goldman Sachs and Bloomburg at a senior level I'm going to be swayed by their argument and conclusions, rather than yours. There are tons of high street accountants and lawyers but very few that reach the heights of Goldman Sachs and their competitors. I have a first aid certificate but I wouldn't argue with the opinion of any medical consultant, even though we both have medical training. It's all about the level wouldn't you agree, sorry don't know why I asked that because of course you won't. Anyway disagree with world class expert advice but remember it doesn't strengthen your argument and unless you provide counter arguments, sourced at the same level it's just your opinion. Mrs x" Enjoy your weekend. | |||
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"Yes, all well and good but did public debt increase in the Eurozone? Beat me to it.... Not sure what your suggesting but here's some data you may find useful. ' ....information about public debt in the UK and the eurozone after Brexit: UK debt At the end of June 2024, the UK's public sector net debt was £2,524.4 billion, or around 91.6% of GDP. This was 16.8 percentage points higher than the EU average at the end of Quarter 1 2023. Eurozone debt The eurozone's government debt to GDP ratio decreased from 90.8% at the end of 2022 to 88.6% at the end of 2023.' Hope this helps, Mrs x Not good data to be honest, it is like comparing apples and oranges and is only in circulation to provided bias support in my opinion. Comparing the UK to the whole EU smooths out the extremes and ignores the fact that countries like France has debt at approx 112% of GDP and faces different challenges to Germany at 66.4%. The UK stands somewhere between, it makes more sense to compare the UK with individual nations that match in size, complexity, and structure not the whole bloc. It's amazes me when you say that in your 'opinion', when discussing such issues but there's no evidence, sources or data. You think your opinion is stronger than the data from world leading experts? Honestly? Saying its not 'good data' is laughable because obviously you know better than Goldman Sachs and Bloomburg. And then you use claims of things being 'biased' when they don't suit your narrative. Why would experts who deal in selling analytical data risk their reputation by providing tainted information, they wouldn't? It would lead to lose of business and financial ruin, which is not happening to these institutions, they appear to be thriving. I think someone's showing bias but it's not the experts. As for your point about comparing country with country that's just silly. Brexit meant us leaving the EU not individual countries, so of course we should be compared with the EU as a whole. You fail to grasp that by basing it on individual countries then yes we might be performing better than the worse performing countries but we'd be performing worse than the best. In fact the worse performing countries within the EU are actually pulling down the average for the bloc. You really do make me giggle. Mrs x It is about understanding the data that is being presented, I do.Oh course you do, much more so than the worlds leading experts in the field who are presenting it apparently haha, you are so funny. Mrs x I do, and you not so and I don't mean that in a rude way, as I would not expect to have a great understanding of many core skills / services outside those I charge for. Again you are saying things that maybe you should have thought about before saying them. You say that you do understand the data the experts are delivering. You set yourself up as an authority in this field as you say you charge for such services. You then go on to say that although you understand the data that I 'not so'. That's your problem, I never said I did. But I can read and understand the conclusions presented by the experts. It is these conclusions, their work on the available data that I reference on this thread. World class analysis on the effects of Brexit upon the UK. It is their work, not my opinion you say is poor data, and not correct. Now I have no idea how much of an expert in this field you are but unless you working for such firms as Goldman Sachs and Bloomburg at a senior level I'm going to be swayed by their argument and conclusions, rather than yours. There are tons of high street accountants and lawyers but very few that reach the heights of Goldman Sachs and their competitors. I have a first aid certificate but I wouldn't argue with the opinion of any medical consultant, even though we both have medical training. It's all about the level wouldn't you agree, sorry don't know why I asked that because of course you won't. Anyway disagree with world class expert advice but remember it doesn't strengthen your argument and unless you provide counter arguments, sourced at the same level it's just your opinion. Mrs x Enjoy your weekend. " It's been great only looking to get better. Mrs x | |||
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"A full return to the EU…. No A return to the eurozone market in the form of a FTA… which the were mad to leave in the first place!….. probably Will it include some form of “freedom of movement “… probably " two probablys there but which goverment do you think will do that labour only have 4and half yrs left and then it be reform or torries and I can’t see them been interested or do you actually think starmer will be inn for a second term I’d say that’s slim to nil more on the nil | |||
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"Yes, all well and good but did public debt increase in the Eurozone? Beat me to it.... Not sure what your suggesting but here's some data you may find useful. ' ....information about public debt in the UK and the eurozone after Brexit: UK debt At the end of June 2024, the UK's public sector net debt was £2,524.4 billion, or around 91.6% of GDP. This was 16.8 percentage points higher than the EU average at the end of Quarter 1 2023. Eurozone debt The eurozone's government debt to GDP ratio decreased from 90.8% at the end of 2022 to 88.6% at the end of 2023.' Hope this helps, Mrs x Not good data to be honest, it is like comparing apples and oranges and is only in circulation to provided bias support in my opinion. Comparing the UK to the whole EU smooths out the extremes and ignores the fact that countries like France has debt at approx 112% of GDP and faces different challenges to Germany at 66.4%. The UK stands somewhere between, it makes more sense to compare the UK with individual nations that match in size, complexity, and structure not the whole bloc. " The figures of debt you quote for France and Germany, are they including the share of debt from the EU's own borrowing, which has been significant, and that member States have to pay back / service the debt?. Or is it literally just the figures for the member countries and the EU debt is on top of that? | |||
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"UK will not rejoin the EU because it means under the new EU terms of joining will mean the country will have to join the Euro Currency as well as accepting Free Movement which the majority of the people in the UK dont want" RE: Euro; this is incorrect; there is a commitment to join the Euro but no timeline for joining; see Sweden, Poland; both are committed to joining the Euro but have no timeline...so they are not & looking like never adapting the Euro. RE: FOM; this comes with the Single Market. That is for the UK to decide; you can have access with the conditions of membership or not & so face the economic price...or continue as you are currently doing & have record immigration, as Tory government implemented via points system | |||
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"UK will not rejoin the EU because it means under the new EU terms of joining will mean the country will have to join the Euro Currency as well as accepting Free Movement which the majority of the people in the UK dont want RE: Euro; this is incorrect; there is a commitment to join the Euro but no timeline for joining; see Sweden, Poland; both are committed to joining the Euro but have no timeline...so they are not & looking like never adapting the Euro. RE: FOM; this comes with the Single Market. That is for the UK to decide; you can have access with the conditions of membership or not & so face the economic price...or continue as you are currently doing & have record immigration, as Tory government implemented via points system " Losing FOM was one of the many 1000s of downsides of Brexit. | |||
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"Brexit has been terrible for the UK. Bloomburg wrote on the 19th March 2024. 'Far from being the bloated, inefficient bureaucracy derided by Euroskeptics -- led by former UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson when he was the fabulist journalist for the London Telegraph -- who colored the prevailing Brexit media narrative, the EU economy is growing 2.3 percentage points faster than the UK’s on an annual basis, with GDP advancing 24% since 2016, compared with the 6% for the UK. During the 10 years before the Brexit referendum, EU GDP lagged behind the UK annually by 12 basis points, since 2000 by 9 basis points and the two decades preceding Brexit, by 149 basis points, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. The dichotomy is similar for GDP per individual among the 20 countries sharing the euro. The bloc’s per capita GDP increased 19%, or 2.19 percentage points more than the UK on annual basis since 2016, an overwhelming reversal of the decade prior to Brexit. During the 10 years preceding Brexit, annualized euro zone growth was barely eight basis points better than the UK, and between 2000 and 2016 the euro zone trailed the UK by six basis points. Contrary to the overwhelming perception, Britain had everything to gain from its EU inclusion and little to lose as the bloc expanded with the fall of the Soviet Union's Berlin Wall and rapid integration of Eastern European countries. Between 2011 and 2015, the EU's jobless rate expanded from 1.3 percentage points higher than the UK to 4.6 percentage points above. Only after the Brexit vote did the situation reverse, with the EU's additional joblessness rate narrowing to 2.9 percentage points as its citizens secured employment at a faster rate than their UK counterparts.' What about debt? I understand that public sector employment has increased in the Eurozone. I'm not saying that an increase in public sector employment is a bad thing but it can be argued that it isn't wealth creative. Didn't Bloomberg contribute heavily to the remain campaign and why?Don't know why but yes Bloomburg did, however it's not just Bloomburg that stresses how bad Brexit has been for the zUK. Goldman Sachs, the OBR and quite a few others who all claim we are 2.5% worse off by leaving the EU. 'Brexit has affected the UK's gross domestic product (GDP): Economic growth According to Statista, the UK's economy was 2.5% smaller in 2023 than it would have been if the UK had not left the EU. Goldman Sachs estimates that the UK economy has underperformed other advanced economies by 5% since Brexit, and that the actual impact may have been 4-8% of real GDP. Cost of living The average Briton was nearly £2,000 worse off in 2023, and the average Londoner was nearly £3,400 worse off. Trade The UK's total imports and exports to the European Union and the rest of the world decreased by 15%. Investment Brexit has created uncertainty for businesses, which has discouraged investment. Labor shortages There has been a decline in net migration from the EU, which has led to a shortage of skilled workers in the UK. Trade barriers Leaving the single market has increased trade barriers between the UK and the EU.' Yeah Brexit has been shit for the UK. Mrs x Nothing you have said is guaranteed, it's all predictions from bodies who change those predictions within months and so are anything but reliable. Any govt has the powers to make Brexit a success but the Tories failed to implement them and the Labour party is unlikely to do so either. The idea of Brexit is not the problem, it's the implementation " None of the politicians wanted BREXIT. Cameron did a runner, May lied through her teeth, and Johnson made a deal that would never bear fruit. The working class of this fair isle are screwed yet again. Reform UK are our only hope, the only political entity in the UK that will make it a success. I hope they start with small government, the entire system is highly bloated. The House of Lords is an old and very bad idea. Time to get shot of it, and use the building for a devolved English parliament. That would be a start for me, some much better political minds in the party. Project 2029 is a very important, very realistic goal, and we have got to score. | |||
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"Brexit has been terrible for the UK. Bloomburg wrote on the 19th March 2024. 'Far from being the bloated, inefficient bureaucracy derided by Euroskeptics -- led by former UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson when he was the fabulist journalist for the London Telegraph -- who colored the prevailing Brexit media narrative, the EU economy is growing 2.3 percentage points faster than the UK’s on an annual basis, with GDP advancing 24% since 2016, compared with the 6% for the UK. During the 10 years before the Brexit referendum, EU GDP lagged behind the UK annually by 12 basis points, since 2000 by 9 basis points and the two decades preceding Brexit, by 149 basis points, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. The dichotomy is similar for GDP per individual among the 20 countries sharing the euro. The bloc’s per capita GDP increased 19%, or 2.19 percentage points more than the UK on annual basis since 2016, an overwhelming reversal of the decade prior to Brexit. During the 10 years preceding Brexit, annualized euro zone growth was barely eight basis points better than the UK, and between 2000 and 2016 the euro zone trailed the UK by six basis points. Contrary to the overwhelming perception, Britain had everything to gain from its EU inclusion and little to lose as the bloc expanded with the fall of the Soviet Union's Berlin Wall and rapid integration of Eastern European countries. Between 2011 and 2015, the EU's jobless rate expanded from 1.3 percentage points higher than the UK to 4.6 percentage points above. Only after the Brexit vote did the situation reverse, with the EU's additional joblessness rate narrowing to 2.9 percentage points as its citizens secured employment at a faster rate than their UK counterparts.' What about debt? I understand that public sector employment has increased in the Eurozone. I'm not saying that an increase in public sector employment is a bad thing but it can be argued that it isn't wealth creative. Didn't Bloomberg contribute heavily to the remain campaign and why?Don't know why but yes Bloomburg did, however it's not just Bloomburg that stresses how bad Brexit has been for the zUK. Goldman Sachs, the OBR and quite a few others who all claim we are 2.5% worse off by leaving the EU. 'Brexit has affected the UK's gross domestic product (GDP): Economic growth According to Statista, the UK's economy was 2.5% smaller in 2023 than it would have been if the UK had not left the EU. Goldman Sachs estimates that the UK economy has underperformed other advanced economies by 5% since Brexit, and that the actual impact may have been 4-8% of real GDP. Cost of living The average Briton was nearly £2,000 worse off in 2023, and the average Londoner was nearly £3,400 worse off. Trade The UK's total imports and exports to the European Union and the rest of the world decreased by 15%. Investment Brexit has created uncertainty for businesses, which has discouraged investment. Labor shortages There has been a decline in net migration from the EU, which has led to a shortage of skilled workers in the UK. Trade barriers Leaving the single market has increased trade barriers between the UK and the EU.' Yeah Brexit has been shit for the UK. Mrs x Nothing you have said is guaranteed, it's all predictions from bodies who change those predictions within months and so are anything but reliable. Any govt has the powers to make Brexit a success but the Tories failed to implement them and the Labour party is unlikely to do so either. The idea of Brexit is not the problem, it's the implementation None of the politicians wanted BREXIT. Cameron did a runner, May lied through her teeth, and Johnson made a deal that would never bear fruit. " Lots of politicians wanted Brexit, it was about opportunities for disaster capitalism, to keep hiding funds off shore to avoid paying taxes, to shift power and wealth from us to those at the top. " The working class of this fair isle are screwed yet again. " 100% agree. But this was the aim of Brexit. " Reform UK are our only hope, the only political entity in the UK that will make it a success. I hope they start with small government, the entire system is highly bloated. The House of Lords is an old and very bad idea. Time to get shot of it, and use the building for a devolved English parliament. That would be a start for me, some much better political minds in the party. Project 2029 is a very important, very realistic goal, and we have got to score." This is where you've lost me, Reform want an even more brutally damaging Brexit. They wanted WTO trading terms, to remove all our environmental protections, our workers rights, our safety standards. | |||
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"UK will not rejoin the EU because it means under the new EU terms of joining will mean the country will have to join the Euro Currency as well as accepting Free Movement which the majority of the people in the UK dont want RE: Euro; this is incorrect; there is a commitment to join the Euro but no timeline for joining; see Sweden, Poland; both are committed to joining the Euro but have no timeline...so they are not & looking like never adapting the Euro. RE: FOM; this comes with the Single Market. That is for the UK to decide; you can have access with the conditions of membership or not & so face the economic price...or continue as you are currently doing & have record immigration, as Tory government implemented via points system " Ok maybe about joining the Euro I'm wrong about which is fine however with Freedom of Movement countries looking to join the EU can't cherry pick with what type of Freedoms Of Movement they want. They have to accept all of it | |||
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"Brexit has been terrible for the UK. Bloomburg wrote on the 19th March 2024. 'Far from being the bloated, inefficient bureaucracy derided by Euroskeptics -- led by former UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson when he was the fabulist journalist for the London Telegraph -- who colored the prevailing Brexit media narrative, the EU economy is growing 2.3 percentage points faster than the UK’s on an annual basis, with GDP advancing 24% since 2016, compared with the 6% for the UK. During the 10 years before the Brexit referendum, EU GDP lagged behind the UK annually by 12 basis points, since 2000 by 9 basis points and the two decades preceding Brexit, by 149 basis points, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. The dichotomy is similar for GDP per individual among the 20 countries sharing the euro. The bloc’s per capita GDP increased 19%, or 2.19 percentage points more than the UK on annual basis since 2016, an overwhelming reversal of the decade prior to Brexit. During the 10 years preceding Brexit, annualized euro zone growth was barely eight basis points better than the UK, and between 2000 and 2016 the euro zone trailed the UK by six basis points. Contrary to the overwhelming perception, Britain had everything to gain from its EU inclusion and little to lose as the bloc expanded with the fall of the Soviet Union's Berlin Wall and rapid integration of Eastern European countries. Between 2011 and 2015, the EU's jobless rate expanded from 1.3 percentage points higher than the UK to 4.6 percentage points above. Only after the Brexit vote did the situation reverse, with the EU's additional joblessness rate narrowing to 2.9 percentage points as its citizens secured employment at a faster rate than their UK counterparts.'" The "growth" in GDP is mostly down to the Eastern European countries. If you take the Western European countries like Germany and France, they are basically walking towards irrelevance at this point. It's something Macron himself admitted he is worried about. Did you get a chance to read the Draghi report? The EU should just have remained a trade union. The moment they decided to make it a political entity, it was always going to head into destruction. It doesn't help that left wing populist politicians took hold of it for a long time, passing ridiculous regulations and essentially destroying entrepreneurship in these countries. | |||
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"I'm more for the UK to have a relationship with the EU on a trade only bases but not have the political crap that comes with it " A trading bloc!! What a great idea!! It could be called the Common Market or something. Mind you, it would be a pity if the project went off the rails and morphed into a socialist superstate. | |||
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"I'm more for the UK to have a relationship with the EU on a trade only bases but not have the political crap that comes with it A trading bloc!! What a great idea!! It could be called the Common Market or something. Mind you, it would be a pity if the project went off the rails and morphed into a socialist superstate." Both these quotes perfectly sum up why I voted out, and would so so every day of the week. In my opinion, you can't shove two dozen or so countries with different needs, different priorities, and different economic systems into a one-size-fits-all group and expect it to work. To give a comparison by exaggeration, there are around 50 countries in Africa. Some are Western style democracies, some are dictatorships, some are Islamic states, some are deserts, you get the picture. If all of a sudden there was an announcement saying "We're all switching to one system, one currency, controlling everything from the centre, irrespective of what we need or produce", we'd say they were bonkers. A few years ago, I acquired a set of the three leaflets sent to every household ahead of the 1975 Referendum - and guess what, we're still no nearer to addressing the same problems as fifty years ago. But hey, what would I know, I'm just one of 17.4 million racists who was incapable of thinking for myself apparently | |||
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"Meanwhile Poland announced that they are going to "temporarily" suspend right to claim asylum. After the EU has been trying for years to create a united asylum policy. So much for EU's togetherness." We done Poland. | |||
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"Meanwhile Poland announced that they are going to "temporarily" suspend right to claim asylum. After the EU has been trying for years to create a united asylum policy. So much for EU's togetherness." I assume this is all legally ok and the country's wish to suspend taking asylum seekers outweighs the asylum seekers rights to claim. If so why doesn't the UK do the same or even all European countries. Just a thought | |||
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"Meanwhile Poland announced that they are going to "temporarily" suspend right to claim asylum. After the EU has been trying for years to create a united asylum policy. So much for EU's togetherness. I assume this is all legally ok and the country's wish to suspend taking asylum seekers outweighs the asylum seekers rights to claim. If so why doesn't the UK do the same or even all European countries. Just a thought" Poland's move probably goes against the refugee conventions. But as with most of these international laws, they are only as good as the enforcement mechanism. If Poland stops taking asylum seekers, who is going to do anything about it? I don't think UK politicians will try anything like that though. | |||
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"So when we had 'Brexit means Brexit'......does anyone actually knows what that means??? 🤔 " It means that Mz May was lying to the British public. Convincing people that she was in favkuf of BREXIT, even though she clearly voted remain in the referendum. Because her and the speaker of the house, made damp sure that nothing happened. | |||
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"Reform UK = a lot of hot air and no record in government. Why would anyone with any sense think they are relevant or going to do any good. Get real here please." We will see what happens in 2029. I have already spelled out what I think. As for having no record in government? It is a new party, but the target is highly achievable. You only have to look ethe opposition. Labour will be a disaster, the Tories were a disaster, and the Lib Dims blotted their copybook while in a coalition with the Tories. | |||
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"Reform UK = a lot of hot air and no record in government. Why would anyone with any sense think they are relevant or going to do any good. Get real here please." 4.2 million votes. (Equivalent to 62% Tory and 42.3% of Labour) Nobody wants to hear it but is very significant . | |||
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"I’m loving BREXIT, will love it even more when it implemented properly. We will have to wait until 2029, when Reform UK, are elected at last. Nigel in No10, am loving it! Curious. Can you describe how your life and that of your family and friends has improved as a result of Brexit? I’m happier, as I always hated the EU. I work in the marina and in the whole things are good. I’m not going to describe it all, I prefer to keep my private life private. I still don’t believe that BREXIT has been properly implicated. I believe that all these mps have a vested interest in the EU. But I do believe in Nigel, and project 2029. So yeah, I’m a working class Reformer, and I’m bloody proud of it." Morning. Obviously I respect you wanting privacy but not really sure how answering my question impacts that. You’ve also said you work at the Marina so that’s a pretty big privacy reveal? I was more expecting things along the lines of (for example): 1. Less EU workers resulting in me getting a pay rise 2. Cost of my rent/mortgage went down 3. Cost of my food shop and other groceries went down 4. Cost of my utilities went down 5. Cost of my break in the sun on a Euro beach went down 6. I’m happy our borders feel more secure Etc *I suspect only number 1 might have any chance of being real | |||
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"Yes, all well and good but did public debt increase in the Eurozone? Beat me to it.... Not sure what your suggesting but here's some data you may find useful. ' ....information about public debt in the UK and the eurozone after Brexit: UK debt At the end of June 2024, the UK's public sector net debt was £2,524.4 billion, or around 91.6% of GDP. This was 16.8 percentage points higher than the EU average at the end of Quarter 1 2023. Eurozone debt The eurozone's government debt to GDP ratio decreased from 90.8% at the end of 2022 to 88.6% at the end of 2023.' Hope this helps, Mrs x Not good data to be honest, it is like comparing apples and oranges and is only in circulation to provided bias support in my opinion. Comparing the UK to the whole EU smooths out the extremes and ignores the fact that countries like France has debt at approx 112% of GDP and faces different challenges to Germany at 66.4%. The UK stands somewhere between, it makes more sense to compare the UK with individual nations that match in size, complexity, and structure not the whole bloc. The figures of debt you quote for France and Germany, are they including the share of debt from the EU's own borrowing, which has been significant, and that member States have to pay back / service the debt?. Or is it literally just the figures for the member countries and the EU debt is on top of that?" Their national debt | |||
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"I’m loving BREXIT, will love it even more when it implemented properly. We will have to wait until 2029, when Reform UK, are elected at last. Nigel in No10, am loving it! Curious. Can you describe how your life and that of your family and friends has improved as a result of Brexit? I’m happier, as I always hated the EU. I work in the marina and in the whole things are good. I’m not going to describe it all, I prefer to keep my private life private. I still don’t believe that BREXIT has been properly implicated. I believe that all these mps have a vested interest in the EU. But I do believe in Nigel, and project 2029. So yeah, I’m a working class Reformer, and I’m bloody proud of it. Morning. Obviously I respect you wanting privacy but not really sure how answering my question impacts that. You’ve also said you work at the Marina so that’s a pretty big privacy reveal? I was more expecting things along the lines of (for example): 1. Less EU workers resulting in me getting a pay rise 2. Cost of my rent/mortgage went down 3. Cost of my food shop and other groceries went down 4. Cost of my utilities went down 5. Cost of my break in the sun on a Euro beach went down 6. I’m happy our borders feel more secure Etc *I suspect only number 1 might have any chance of being real" I still don’t believe that any of the possibilities presented by BREXIT have ever been implemented. As I’ve said before, none of our so called ‘leaders’ actually wanted it. | |||
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"To me there seems to be a vast democratic deficit with the EU. Van Rumpuy, Barnier, Tusk, Junker, Delors, Von de Leyen etc. All held sway over approximately 450 million people. I never saw a ballot paper with their names on it and had never heard of any of them until they were appointed. I expect lots of people can name their MP but when we had them could not have named one of their MEPs. " That's an inherent problem with governance of larger population. The larger the population, the smaller the power you have over the choices made by the government and the farther you are from the bureaucrats at the top. If Turkey joins the EU tomorrow, there will be more MEPs coming from Turkey, thereby reducing the power of people of every other country in the EU. | |||
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"if Turkey joins the EU tomorrow, there will be more MEPs coming from Turkey, thereby reducing the power of people of every other country in the EU." yet more project fear nonsence from the extremist right | |||
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"if Turkey joins the EU tomorrow, there will be more MEPs coming from Turkey, thereby reducing the power of people of every other country in the EU. yet more project fear nonsence from the extremist right" I was taking a hypothetical scenario as an example to show how an individual's power deteriorates as the size of the government grows. Do you have anything valuable to contribute other than to call random people "extreme right"? | |||
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"if Turkey joins the EU tomorrow, there will be more MEPs coming from Turkey, thereby reducing the power of people of every other country in the EU. yet more project fear nonsence from the extremist right" Extremist right? Explain | |||
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"if Turkey joins the EU tomorrow, there will be more MEPs coming from Turkey, thereby reducing the power of people of every other country in the EU. yet more project fear nonsence from the extremist right I was taking a hypothetical scenario as an example to show how an individual's power deteriorates as the size of the government grows. Do you have anything valuable to contribute other than to call random people "extreme right"?" i didn't call you extreme right  | |||
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"if Turkey joins the EU tomorrow, there will be more MEPs coming from Turkey, thereby reducing the power of people of every other country in the EU. yet more project fear nonsence from the extremist right I was taking a hypothetical scenario as an example to show how an individual's power deteriorates as the size of the government grows. Do you have anything valuable to contribute other than to call random people "extreme right"? i didn't call you extreme right "Which part of my post was "project fear nonsense" and how is my post related to extreme right? | |||
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"Which part of my post was "project fear nonsense" and how is my post related to extreme right?" | |||
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"Brexit has been terrible for the UK. Bloomburg wrote on the 19th March 2024. 'Far from being the bloated, inefficient bureaucracy derided by Euroskeptics -- led by former UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson when he was the fabulist journalist for the London Telegraph -- who colored the prevailing Brexit media narrative, the EU economy is growing 2.3 percentage points faster than the UK’s on an annual basis, with GDP advancing 24% since 2016, compared with the 6% for the UK. During the 10 years before the Brexit referendum, EU GDP lagged behind the UK annually by 12 basis points, since 2000 by 9 basis points and the two decades preceding Brexit, by 149 basis points, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. The dichotomy is similar for GDP per individual among the 20 countries sharing the euro. The bloc’s per capita GDP increased 19%, or 2.19 percentage points more than the UK on annual basis since 2016, an overwhelming reversal of the decade prior to Brexit. During the 10 years preceding Brexit, annualized euro zone growth was barely eight basis points better than the UK, and between 2000 and 2016 the euro zone trailed the UK by six basis points. Contrary to the overwhelming perception, Britain had everything to gain from its EU inclusion and little to lose as the bloc expanded with the fall of the Soviet Union's Berlin Wall and rapid integration of Eastern European countries. Between 2011 and 2015, the EU's jobless rate expanded from 1.3 percentage points higher than the UK to 4.6 percentage points above. Only after the Brexit vote did the situation reverse, with the EU's additional joblessness rate narrowing to 2.9 percentage points as its citizens secured employment at a faster rate than their UK counterparts.' What about debt? I understand that public sector employment has increased in the Eurozone. I'm not saying that an increase in public sector employment is a bad thing but it can be argued that it isn't wealth creative. Didn't Bloomberg contribute heavily to the remain campaign and why?Don't know why but yes Bloomburg did, however it's not just Bloomburg that stresses how bad Brexit has been for the zUK. Goldman Sachs, the OBR and quite a few others who all claim we are 2.5% worse off by leaving the EU. 'Brexit has affected the UK's gross domestic product (GDP): Economic growth According to Statista, the UK's economy was 2.5% smaller in 2023 than it would have been if the UK had not left the EU. Goldman Sachs estimates that the UK economy has underperformed other advanced economies by 5% since Brexit, and that the actual impact may have been 4-8% of real GDP. Cost of living The average Briton was nearly £2,000 worse off in 2023, and the average Londoner was nearly £3,400 worse off. Trade The UK's total imports and exports to the European Union and the rest of the world decreased by 15%. Investment Brexit has created uncertainty for businesses, which has discouraged investment. Labor shortages There has been a decline in net migration from the EU, which has led to a shortage of skilled workers in the UK. Trade barriers Leaving the single market has increased trade barriers between the UK and the EU.' Yeah Brexit has been shit for the UK. Mrs x Nothing you have said is guaranteed, it's all predictions from bodies who change those predictions within months and so are anything but reliable. Any govt has the powers to make Brexit a success but the Tories failed to implement them and the Labour party is unlikely to do so either. The idea of Brexit is not the problem, it's the implementation None of the politicians wanted BREXIT. Cameron did a runner, May lied through her teeth, and Johnson made a deal that would never bear fruit. Lots of politicians wanted Brexit, it was about opportunities for disaster capitalism, to keep hiding funds off shore to avoid paying taxes, to shift power and wealth from us to those at the top. The working class of this fair isle are screwed yet again. 100% agree. But this was the aim of Brexit. Reform UK are our only hope, the only political entity in the UK that will make it a success. I hope they start with small government, the entire system is highly bloated. The House of Lords is an old and very bad idea. Time to get shot of it, and use the building for a devolved English parliament. That would be a start for me, some much better political minds in the party. Project 2029 is a very important, very realistic goal, and we have got to score. This is where you've lost me, Reform want an even more brutally damaging Brexit. They wanted WTO trading terms, to remove all our environmental protections, our workers rights, our safety standards." enviromental protections unless China India and the 3 world sort there shit out it’s a total waste of time anyway | |||
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"I’m loving BREXIT, will love it even more when it implemented properly. We will have to wait until 2029, when Reform UK, are elected at last. Nigel in No10, am loving it! Curious. Can you describe how your life and that of your family and friends has improved as a result of Brexit? I’m happier, as I always hated the EU. I work in the marina and in the whole things are good. I’m not going to describe it all, I prefer to keep my private life private. I still don’t believe that BREXIT has been properly implicated. I believe that all these mps have a vested interest in the EU. But I do believe in Nigel, and project 2029. So yeah, I’m a working class Reformer, and I’m bloody proud of it. Morning. Obviously I respect you wanting privacy but not really sure how answering my question impacts that. You’ve also said you work at the Marina so that’s a pretty big privacy reveal? I was more expecting things along the lines of (for example): 1. Less EU workers resulting in me getting a pay rise 2. Cost of my rent/mortgage went down 3. Cost of my food shop and other groceries went down 4. Cost of my utilities went down 5. Cost of my break in the sun on a Euro beach went down 6. I’m happy our borders feel more secure Etc *I suspect only number 1 might have any chance of being real I still don’t believe that any of the possibilities presented by BREXIT have ever been implemented. As I’ve said before, none of our so called ‘leaders’ actually wanted it." What are/were the possibilities? | |||
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"Brexit has been terrible for the UK. Bloomburg wrote on the 19th March 2024. 'Far from being the bloated, inefficient bureaucracy derided by Euroskeptics -- led by former UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson when he was the fabulist journalist for the London Telegraph -- who colored the prevailing Brexit media narrative, the EU economy is growing 2.3 percentage points faster than the UK’s on an annual basis, with GDP advancing 24% since 2016, compared with the 6% for the UK. During the 10 years before the Brexit referendum, EU GDP lagged behind the UK annually by 12 basis points, since 2000 by 9 basis points and the two decades preceding Brexit, by 149 basis points, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. The dichotomy is similar for GDP per individual among the 20 countries sharing the euro. The bloc’s per capita GDP increased 19%, or 2.19 percentage points more than the UK on annual basis since 2016, an overwhelming reversal of the decade prior to Brexit. During the 10 years preceding Brexit, annualized euro zone growth was barely eight basis points better than the UK, and between 2000 and 2016 the euro zone trailed the UK by six basis points. Contrary to the overwhelming perception, Britain had everything to gain from its EU inclusion and little to lose as the bloc expanded with the fall of the Soviet Union's Berlin Wall and rapid integration of Eastern European countries. Between 2011 and 2015, the EU's jobless rate expanded from 1.3 percentage points higher than the UK to 4.6 percentage points above. Only after the Brexit vote did the situation reverse, with the EU's additional joblessness rate narrowing to 2.9 percentage points as its citizens secured employment at a faster rate than their UK counterparts.' What about debt? I understand that public sector employment has increased in the Eurozone. I'm not saying that an increase in public sector employment is a bad thing but it can be argued that it isn't wealth creative. Didn't Bloomberg contribute heavily to the remain campaign and why?Don't know why but yes Bloomburg did, however it's not just Bloomburg that stresses how bad Brexit has been for the zUK. Goldman Sachs, the OBR and quite a few others who all claim we are 2.5% worse off by leaving the EU. 'Brexit has affected the UK's gross domestic product (GDP): Economic growth According to Statista, the UK's economy was 2.5% smaller in 2023 than it would have been if the UK had not left the EU. Goldman Sachs estimates that the UK economy has underperformed other advanced economies by 5% since Brexit, and that the actual impact may have been 4-8% of real GDP. Cost of living The average Briton was nearly £2,000 worse off in 2023, and the average Londoner was nearly £3,400 worse off. Trade The UK's total imports and exports to the European Union and the rest of the world decreased by 15%. Investment Brexit has created uncertainty for businesses, which has discouraged investment. Labor shortages There has been a decline in net migration from the EU, which has led to a shortage of skilled workers in the UK. Trade barriers Leaving the single market has increased trade barriers between the UK and the EU.' Yeah Brexit has been shit for the UK. Mrs x Nothing you have said is guaranteed, it's all predictions from bodies who change those predictions within months and so are anything but reliable. Any govt has the powers to make Brexit a success but the Tories failed to implement them and the Labour party is unlikely to do so either. The idea of Brexit is not the problem, it's the implementation None of the politicians wanted BREXIT. Cameron did a runner, May lied through her teeth, and Johnson made a deal that would never bear fruit. Lots of politicians wanted Brexit, it was about opportunities for disaster capitalism, to keep hiding funds off shore to avoid paying taxes, to shift power and wealth from us to those at the top. The working class of this fair isle are screwed yet again. 100% agree. But this was the aim of Brexit. Reform UK are our only hope, the only political entity in the UK that will make it a success. I hope they start with small government, the entire system is highly bloated. The House of Lords is an old and very bad idea. Time to get shot of it, and use the building for a devolved English parliament. That would be a start for me, some much better political minds in the party. Project 2029 is a very important, very realistic goal, and we have got to score. This is where you've lost me, Reform want an even more brutally damaging Brexit. They wanted WTO trading terms, to remove all our environmental protections, our workers rights, our safety standards.enviromental protections unless China India and the 3 world sort there shit out it’s a total waste of time anyway " What's that got to do with human shit being pumped into our rivers? | |||
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"Yes, all well and good but did public debt increase in the Eurozone? Beat me to it.... Not sure what your suggesting but here's some data you may find useful. ' ....information about public debt in the UK and the eurozone after Brexit: UK debt At the end of June 2024, the UK's public sector net debt was £2,524.4 billion, or around 91.6% of GDP. This was 16.8 percentage points higher than the EU average at the end of Quarter 1 2023. Eurozone debt The eurozone's government debt to GDP ratio decreased from 90.8% at the end of 2022 to 88.6% at the end of 2023.' Hope this helps, Mrs x Not good data to be honest, it is like comparing apples and oranges and is only in circulation to provided bias support in my opinion. Comparing the UK to the whole EU smooths out the extremes and ignores the fact that countries like France has debt at approx 112% of GDP and faces different challenges to Germany at 66.4%. The UK stands somewhere between, it makes more sense to compare the UK with individual nations that match in size, complexity, and structure not the whole bloc. The figures of debt you quote for France and Germany, are they including the share of debt from the EU's own borrowing, which has been significant, and that member States have to pay back / service the debt?. Or is it literally just the figures for the member countries and the EU debt is on top of that? Their national debt "In that case the figures are not accurate as all member States are liable for the debt racked up by the EU | |||
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"Brexit was, and still is a disaster for the UK. It was sold to the public on a 'pack of lies'. In fact if you bought anything which was based upon such false claims, you are protected by law and could return the item for a full refund. Yet we are stuck with this shit show with no end in sight. We should have just stayed in the EU. Mrs x Nope. Anyore to add or is that it? Mrs x" We should have stayed. I still can't see the benefits since we left. I'm all for respecting the outcome but like was said above people were fed a load of BS. And we have all been made to suffer. Look at the prices of everything and the ones who told the BS are winning. I can't understand the mindset of anyone who isn't mega wealthy thinking that the most privileged of society actually have the rest of our interests at heart. | |||
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"To me there seems to be a vast democratic deficit with the EU. Van Rumpuy, Barnier, Tusk, Junker, Delors, Von de Leyen etc. All held sway over approximately 450 million people. I never saw a ballot paper with their names on it and had never heard of any of them until they were appointed. I expect lots of people can name their MP but when we had them could not have named one of their MEPs. That's an inherent problem with governance of larger population. The larger the population, the smaller the power you have over the choices made by the government and the farther you are from the bureaucrats at the top. If Turkey joins the EU tomorrow, there will be more MEPs coming from Turkey, thereby reducing the power of people of every other country in the EU." Very true. The USA has a population of about 360 million and manages this by not being a democracy but a Constitutional republic. | |||
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"Yes, all well and good but did public debt increase in the Eurozone? Beat me to it.... Not sure what your suggesting but here's some data you may find useful. ' ....information about public debt in the UK and the eurozone after Brexit: UK debt At the end of June 2024, the UK's public sector net debt was £2,524.4 billion, or around 91.6% of GDP. This was 16.8 percentage points higher than the EU average at the end of Quarter 1 2023. Eurozone debt The eurozone's government debt to GDP ratio decreased from 90.8% at the end of 2022 to 88.6% at the end of 2023.' Hope this helps, Mrs x Not good data to be honest, it is like comparing apples and oranges and is only in circulation to provided bias support in my opinion. Comparing the UK to the whole EU smooths out the extremes and ignores the fact that countries like France has debt at approx 112% of GDP and faces different challenges to Germany at 66.4%. The UK stands somewhere between, it makes more sense to compare the UK with individual nations that match in size, complexity, and structure not the whole bloc. The figures of debt you quote for France and Germany, are they including the share of debt from the EU's own borrowing, which has been significant, and that member States have to pay back / service the debt?. Or is it literally just the figures for the member countries and the EU debt is on top of that? Their national debt
In that case the figures are not accurate as all member States are liable for the debt racked up by the EU"Agreed, however, when you look at national debt, you get a clearer picture of how individual countries compare. It is when you add in EU funding, the landscape shifts. Contributions to the EU budget are on an agreed percentage, which varies by country, and this does add an overhead to each member state’s budget, which is what you are calling it out, I think? If we were still in the EU, we’d be looking at paying approx £18 billion annually, we had an agreed rebate, this reduced contributions by £5 billion. We also received EU funding which brought the contribution down to about £9 billion per year. When you break this down into cost/benefit terms, especially from a trade vs reward perspective, it becomes easier to evaluate the pros and cons of EU membership. However, the EU’s reach beyond trade into regulation and governance is where things became sticky and I think was the driving force for remain / leave decisions in most instances. | |||
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"Yes, all well and good but did public debt increase in the Eurozone? Beat me to it.... Not sure what your suggesting but here's some data you may find useful. ' ....information about public debt in the UK and the eurozone after Brexit: UK debt At the end of June 2024, the UK's public sector net debt was £2,524.4 billion, or around 91.6% of GDP. This was 16.8 percentage points higher than the EU average at the end of Quarter 1 2023. Eurozone debt The eurozone's government debt to GDP ratio decreased from 90.8% at the end of 2022 to 88.6% at the end of 2023.' Hope this helps, Mrs x Not good data to be honest, it is like comparing apples and oranges and is only in circulation to provided bias support in my opinion. Comparing the UK to the whole EU smooths out the extremes and ignores the fact that countries like France has debt at approx 112% of GDP and faces different challenges to Germany at 66.4%. The UK stands somewhere between, it makes more sense to compare the UK with individual nations that match in size, complexity, and structure not the whole bloc. The figures of debt you quote for France and Germany, are they including the share of debt from the EU's own borrowing, which has been significant, and that member States have to pay back / service the debt?. Or is it literally just the figures for the member countries and the EU debt is on top of that? Their national debt
In that case the figures are not accurate as all member States are liable for the debt racked up by the EU
Agreed, however, when you look at national debt, you get a clearer picture of how individual countries compare. It is when you add in EU funding, the landscape shifts. Contributions to the EU budget are on an agreed percentage, which varies by country, and this does add an overhead to each member state’s budget, which is what you are calling it out, I think?
If we were still in the EU, we’d be looking at paying approx £18 billion annually, we had an agreed rebate, this reduced contributions by £5 billion. We also received EU funding which brought the contribution down to about £9 billion per year.
When you break this down into cost/benefit terms, especially from a trade vs reward perspective, it becomes easier to evaluate the pros and cons of EU membership. However, the EU’s reach beyond trade into regulation and governance is where things became sticky and I think was the driving force for remain / leave decisions in most instances.
"Indeed comparing one country to another is far more meaningful in my opinion. Comparing to a group of economies, especially ones very varied is not as meaningful. My question was on debt that the EU themselves has taken on and that it falls to member States to service that debt be it through the yearly contributions or other means. Basically saying France is at 112% of GDP for instance is inaccurate as they have further debt via the EU | |||
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"Yes, all well and good but did public debt increase in the Eurozone? Beat me to it.... Not sure what your suggesting but here's some data you may find useful. ' ....information about public debt in the UK and the eurozone after Brexit: UK debt At the end of June 2024, the UK's public sector net debt was £2,524.4 billion, or around 91.6% of GDP. This was 16.8 percentage points higher than the EU average at the end of Quarter 1 2023. Eurozone debt The eurozone's government debt to GDP ratio decreased from 90.8% at the end of 2022 to 88.6% at the end of 2023.' Hope this helps, Mrs x Not good data to be honest, it is like comparing apples and oranges and is only in circulation to provided bias support in my opinion. Comparing the UK to the whole EU smooths out the extremes and ignores the fact that countries like France has debt at approx 112% of GDP and faces different challenges to Germany at 66.4%. The UK stands somewhere between, it makes more sense to compare the UK with individual nations that match in size, complexity, and structure not the whole bloc. The figures of debt you quote for France and Germany, are they including the share of debt from the EU's own borrowing, which has been significant, and that member States have to pay back / service the debt?. Or is it literally just the figures for the member countries and the EU debt is on top of that? Their national debt
In that case the figures are not accurate as all member States are liable for the debt racked up by the EU
Agreed, however, when you look at national debt, you get a clearer picture of how individual countries compare. It is when you add in EU funding, the landscape shifts. Contributions to the EU budget are on an agreed percentage, which varies by country, and this does add an overhead to each member state’s budget, which is what you are calling it out, I think?
If we were still in the EU, we’d be looking at paying approx £18 billion annually, we had an agreed rebate, this reduced contributions by £5 billion. We also received EU funding which brought the contribution down to about £9 billion per year.
When you break this down into cost/benefit terms, especially from a trade vs reward perspective, it becomes easier to evaluate the pros and cons of EU membership. However, the EU’s reach beyond trade into regulation and governance is where things became sticky and I think was the driving force for remain / leave decisions in most instances.
Indeed comparing one country to another is far more meaningful in my opinion. Comparing to a group of economies, especially ones very varied is not as meaningful. My question was on debt that the EU themselves has taken on and that it falls to member States to service that debt be it through the yearly contributions or other means. Basically saying France is at 112% of GDP for instance is inaccurate as they have further debt via the EU" | |||
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"Mandelson is a pillock. The EU is dying. The future is away from it. The only countries wanting to join are Ukraine, Moldova and the like. You know the ones with their paws out asking for others money. Let Germany pay them. They wanted to rule Europe. Well they've got their wish." Some rational no nosense speaking. Been saying for 10 years the EU had cracks in its foundations and those cracks have got bigger and bigger. | |||
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"Mandelson is a pillock. The EU is dying. The future is away from it. The only countries wanting to join are Ukraine, Moldova and the like. You know the ones with their paws out asking for others money. Let Germany pay them. They wanted to rule Europe. Well they've got their wish. Some rational no nosense speaking. Been saying for 10 years the EU had cracks in its foundations and those cracks have got bigger and bigger." The EU somehow falling apart is the last hope for people who can't accept they were lied to by those who campaigned to leave. Fair play to you guys for not giving up the unicorn. | |||
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"Mandelson is a pillock. The EU is dying. The future is away from it. The only countries wanting to join are Ukraine, Moldova and the like. You know the ones with their paws out asking for others money. Let Germany pay them. They wanted to rule Europe. Well they've got their wish. Some rational no nosense speaking. Been saying for 10 years the EU had cracks in its foundations and those cracks have got bigger and bigger. The EU somehow falling apart is the last hope for people who can't accept they were lied to by those who campaigned to leave. Fair play to you guys for not giving up the unicorn." You think the EU is getting stronger then? | |||
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"Mandelson is a pillock. The EU is dying. The future is away from it. The only countries wanting to join are Ukraine, Moldova and the like. You know the ones with their paws out asking for others money. Let Germany pay them. They wanted to rule Europe. Well they've got their wish. Some rational no nosense speaking. Been saying for 10 years the EU had cracks in its foundations and those cracks have got bigger and bigger. The EU somehow falling apart is the last hope for people who can't accept they were lied to by those who campaigned to leave. Fair play to you guys for not giving up the unicorn. You think the EU is getting stronger then?" What does my opinion of the strength of the EU have to do with anything? But to answer your question. I have no opinion. | |||
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"Mandelson is a pillock. The EU is dying. The future is away from it. The only countries wanting to join are Ukraine, Moldova and the like. You know the ones with their paws out asking for others money. Let Germany pay them. They wanted to rule Europe. Well they've got their wish. Some rational no nosense speaking. Been saying for 10 years the EU had cracks in its foundations and those cracks have got bigger and bigger. The EU somehow falling apart is the last hope for people who can't accept they were lied to by those who campaigned to leave. Fair play to you guys for not giving up the unicorn. You think the EU is getting stronger then? What does my opinion of the strength of the EU have to do with anything? But to answer your question. I have no opinion. "Nice cop out  | |||
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"Mandelson is a pillock. The EU is dying. The future is away from it. The only countries wanting to join are Ukraine, Moldova and the like. You know the ones with their paws out asking for others money. Let Germany pay them. They wanted to rule Europe. Well they've got their wish. Some rational no nosense speaking. Been saying for 10 years the EU had cracks in its foundations and those cracks have got bigger and bigger. The EU somehow falling apart is the last hope for people who can't accept they were lied to by those who campaigned to leave. Fair play to you guys for not giving up the unicorn. You think the EU is getting stronger then?" do you think they're not?  | |||
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"Mandelson is a pillock. The EU is dying. The future is away from it. The only countries wanting to join are Ukraine, Moldova and the like. You know the ones with their paws out asking for others money. Let Germany pay them. They wanted to rule Europe. Well they've got their wish. Some rational no nosense speaking. Been saying for 10 years the EU had cracks in its foundations and those cracks have got bigger and bigger. The EU somehow falling apart is the last hope for people who can't accept they were lied to by those who campaigned to leave. Fair play to you guys for not giving up the unicorn." yes only one side lied mate lol | |||
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"Mandelson is a pillock. The EU is dying. The future is away from it. The only countries wanting to join are Ukraine, Moldova and the like. You know the ones with their paws out asking for others money. Let Germany pay them. They wanted to rule Europe. Well they've got their wish. Some rational no nosense speaking. Been saying for 10 years the EU had cracks in its foundations and those cracks have got bigger and bigger. The EU somehow falling apart is the last hope for people who can't accept they were lied to by those who campaigned to leave. Fair play to you guys for not giving up the unicorn. You think the EU is getting stronger then? do you think they're not? "From a recent report on EU competitiveness: - On a per capita basis, real disposable income has grown almost twice as much in the US as in the EU since 2000 - The key driver of the rising productivity gap between the EU and the US has been digital technology (“tech”) – and Europe currently looks set to fall further behind. - EU’s global position in tech is deteriorating: from 2013 to 2023, its share of global tech revenues dropped from 22% to 18% - At the root of Europe’s weak position in digital tech is a static industrial structure which produces a vicious circle of low investment and low innovation - Regulatory barriers to scaling up are particularly onerous in the tech sector, especially for young companies - Fragmentation of the Single Market hinders innovative companies that reach the growth stage from scaling up in the EU, which in turn reduces demand for financing They are getting weaker both economically and socially. | |||
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"Mandelson is a pillock. The EU is dying. The future is away from it. The only countries wanting to join are Ukraine, Moldova and the like. You know the ones with their paws out asking for others money. Let Germany pay them. They wanted to rule Europe. Well they've got their wish. Some rational no nosense speaking. Been saying for 10 years the EU had cracks in its foundations and those cracks have got bigger and bigger. The EU somehow falling apart is the last hope for people who can't accept they were lied to by those who campaigned to leave. Fair play to you guys for not giving up the unicorn.yes only one side lied mate lol" The fact is, people were lied to, voted leave, and are so desperate to find some kind of upside to Brexit that they're hoping for the EU to collapse. | |||
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"Mandelson is a pillock. The EU is dying. The future is away from it. The only countries wanting to join are Ukraine, Moldova and the like. You know the ones with their paws out asking for others money. Let Germany pay them. They wanted to rule Europe. Well they've got their wish. Some rational no nosense speaking. Been saying for 10 years the EU had cracks in its foundations and those cracks have got bigger and bigger. The EU somehow falling apart is the last hope for people who can't accept they were lied to by those who campaigned to leave. Fair play to you guys for not giving up the unicorn.yes only one side lied mate lol The fact is, people were lied to, voted leave, and are so desperate to find some kind of upside to Brexit that they're hoping for the EU to collapse. " They could of course have voted to leave DESPITE being lied to? (There was BS from both sides) Maybe they just looked at the political and economic pros/cons and decided for themselves? | |||
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"Mandelson is a pillock. The EU is dying. The future is away from it. The only countries wanting to join are Ukraine, Moldova and the like. You know the ones with their paws out asking for others money. Let Germany pay them. They wanted to rule Europe. Well they've got their wish. Some rational no nosense speaking. Been saying for 10 years the EU had cracks in its foundations and those cracks have got bigger and bigger. The EU somehow falling apart is the last hope for people who can't accept they were lied to by those who campaigned to leave. Fair play to you guys for not giving up the unicorn.yes only one side lied mate lol The fact is, people were lied to, voted leave, and are so desperate to find some kind of upside to Brexit that they're hoping for the EU to collapse. They could of course have voted to leave DESPITE being lied to? (There was BS from both sides) Maybe they just looked at the political and economic pros/cons and decided for themselves? " Indeed. Of course as they were told at the time, there are no "pros", or at least on one has identified any yet, 8 years on. Hence the desperation for the EU to collapse. | |||
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"Mandelson is a pillock. The EU is dying. The future is away from it. The only countries wanting to join are Ukraine, Moldova and the like. You know the ones with their paws out asking for others money. Let Germany pay them. They wanted to rule Europe. Well they've got their wish. Some rational no nosense speaking. Been saying for 10 years the EU had cracks in its foundations and those cracks have got bigger and bigger. The EU somehow falling apart is the last hope for people who can't accept they were lied to by those who campaigned to leave. Fair play to you guys for not giving up the unicorn.yes only one side lied mate lol The fact is, people were lied to, voted leave, and are so desperate to find some kind of upside to Brexit that they're hoping for the EU to collapse. They could of course have voted to leave DESPITE being lied to? (There was BS from both sides) Maybe they just looked at the political and economic pros/cons and decided for themselves? Indeed. Of course as they were told at the time, there are no "pros", or at least on one has identified any yet, 8 years on. Hence the desperation for the EU to collapse. " I don’t see any desperation for the eu to fail but you can’t ignore that its not doing very well | |||
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" The fact is, people were lied to, voted leave, and are so desperate to find some kind of upside to Brexit that they're hoping for the EU to collapse. " There is no upside to brexit. Speak to fishermen, farmers who have lost BPS subsidies, exporters - especially those of perishable goods, students (300,000 Erasmus places lost), travelling musicians who can’t get visas, HMRC etc | |||
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" Indeed. Of course as they were told at the time, there are no "pros", or at least on one has identified any yet, 8 years on. Hence the desperation for the EU to collapse. " only it's not is it .... in reality countries are queing up to join and only one failed state has left with no signs of others following | |||
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" Indeed. Of course as they were told at the time, there are no "pros", or at least on one has identified any yet, 8 years on. Hence the desperation for the EU to collapse. only it's not is it .... in reality countries are queing up to join and only one failed state has left with no signs of others following" Well of course, the rest of the world looked on in disbelief. | |||
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" The fact is, people were lied to, voted leave, and are so desperate to find some kind of upside to Brexit that they're hoping for the EU to collapse. There is no upside to brexit. Speak to fishermen, farmers who have lost BPS subsidies, exporters - especially those of perishable goods, students (300,000 Erasmus places lost), travelling musicians who can’t get visas, HMRC etc " Hence the desperation to find something to grasp onto to justify their vote. | |||
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" The fact is, people were lied to, voted leave, and are so desperate to find some kind of upside to Brexit that they're hoping for the EU to collapse. There is no upside to brexit. Speak to fishermen, farmers who have lost BPS subsidies, exporters - especially those of perishable goods, students (300,000 Erasmus places lost), travelling musicians who can’t get visas, HMRC etc Hence the desperation to find something to grasp onto to justify their vote." maybe they don’t need to justify there vote | |||
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" The fact is, people were lied to, voted leave, and are so desperate to find some kind of upside to Brexit that they're hoping for the EU to collapse. There is no upside to brexit. Speak to fishermen, farmers who have lost BPS subsidies, exporters - especially those of perishable goods, students (300,000 Erasmus places lost), travelling musicians who can’t get visas, HMRC etc " Upsides - Getting out of the idiotic regulations of EU that killed off tech sector and is going after rest of the sector too. Not having numerous other countries voting on things which affect UK. Sovereignty and more control over state of affairs. | |||
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" Indeed. Of course as they were told at the time, there are no "pros", or at least on one has identified any yet, 8 years on. Hence the desperation for the EU to collapse. only it's not is it .... in reality countries are queing up to join and only one failed state has left with no signs of others following" Which countries?
They recently fucked Ireland by forcing Apple to pay taxes Ireland said they do not want because Ireland had a lot to benefit from Apple setting up offices in the country.
They fucked Germany by going against them in imposing huge tariffs on Chinese cars.
The only ones who want to join are poor countries looking for handouts. And the blind idealogues who blindly worship EU even after seeing that it's clearly going downhill. | |||
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" Indeed. Of course as they were told at the time, there are no "pros", or at least on one has identified any yet, 8 years on. Hence the desperation for the EU to collapse. only it's not is it .... in reality countries are queing up to join and only one failed state has left with no signs of others following Which countries?
They recently fucked Ireland by forcing Apple to pay taxes Ireland said they do not want because Ireland had a lot to benefit from Apple setting up offices in the country.
They fucked Germany by going against them in imposing huge tariffs on Chinese cars.
The only ones who want to join are poor countries looking for handouts. And the blind idealogues who blindly worship EU even after seeing that it's clearly going downhill."garbage!!! 🤣🤣🤣 | |||
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" The fact is, people were lied to, voted leave, and are so desperate to find some kind of upside to Brexit that they're hoping for the EU to collapse. There is no upside to brexit. Speak to fishermen, farmers who have lost BPS subsidies, exporters - especially those of perishable goods, students (300,000 Erasmus places lost), travelling musicians who can’t get visas, HMRC etc Hence the desperation to find something to grasp onto to justify their vote.maybe they don’t need to justify there vote " Of course not, but they sure seem to be trying to find some justification. No matter how tenuous. | |||
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" Indeed. Of course as they were told at the time, there are no "pros", or at least on one has identified any yet, 8 years on. Hence the desperation for the EU to collapse. only it's not is it .... in reality countries are queing up to join and only one failed state has left with no signs of others following Which countries?
They recently fucked Ireland by forcing Apple to pay taxes Ireland said they do not want because Ireland had a lot to benefit from Apple setting up offices in the country.
They fucked Germany by going against them in imposing huge tariffs on Chinese cars.
The only ones who want to join are poor countries looking for handouts. And the blind idealogues who blindly worship EU even after seeing that it's clearly going downhill.
garbage!!! 🤣🤣🤣"Great argument! You totally had me there. | |||
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"I’m loving BREXIT, will love it even more when it implemented properly. We will have to wait until 2029, when Reform UK, are elected at last. Nigel in No10, am loving it! Curious. Can you describe how your life and that of your family and friends has improved as a result of Brexit? I’m happier, as I always hated the EU. I work in the marina and in the whole things are good. I’m not going to describe it all, I prefer to keep my private life private. I still don’t believe that BREXIT has been properly implicated. I believe that all these mps have a vested interest in the EU. But I do believe in Nigel, and project 2029. So yeah, I’m a working class Reformer, and I’m bloody proud of it." Brexit has been a disaster for boat owners. I would encourage you to wear a Brexit loving t-shirt and reform badge at your place of work. Your cistonwrs need to know that the people who the marina employs are actively working against their interests. | |||
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" The fact is, people were lied to, voted leave, and are so desperate to find some kind of upside to Brexit that they're hoping for the EU to collapse. UK growth rate is higher than the EU...or am I mistaken There is no upside to brexit. Speak to fishermen, farmers who have lost BPS subsidies, exporters - especially those of perishable goods, students (300,000 Erasmus places lost), travelling musicians who can’t get visas, HMRC etc Hence the desperation to find something to grasp onto to justify their vote.maybe they don’t need to justify there vote Of course not, but they sure seem to be trying to find some justification. No matter how tenuous. " | |||
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"I’m loving BREXIT, will love it even more when it implemented properly. We will have to wait until 2029, when Reform UK, are elected at last. Nigel in No10, am loving it! Curious. Can you describe how your life and that of your family and friends has improved as a result of Brexit? I’m happier, as I always hated the EU. I work in the marina and in the whole things are good. I’m not going to describe it all, I prefer to keep my private life private. I still don’t believe that BREXIT has been properly implicated. I believe that all these mps have a vested interest in the EU. But I do believe in Nigel, and project 2029. So yeah, I’m a working class Reformer, and I’m bloody proud of it. Brexit has been a disaster for boat owners. I would encourage you to wear a Brexit loving t-shirt and reform badge at your place of work. Your cistonwrs need to know that the people who the marina employs are actively working against their interests. " Ah, people should be allowed to vote for bullshit like Brexit or absolute clowns like Reform, in complete anonymity. People shouldn't be forced to out themselves if they don't want to. | |||
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"A full return to the EU…. No A return to the eurozone market in the form of a FTA… which the were mad to leave in the first place!….. probably Will it include some form of “freedom of movement “… probably two probablys there but which goverment do you think will do that labour only have 4and half yrs left and then it be reform or torries and I can’t see them been interested or do you actually think starmer will be inn for a second term I’d say that’s slim to nil more on the nil " Labour will get a second term because of two good reasons: 1) they are making progress and have achieved more con their first three months than the last Government did in its last full year. 2) Conservative members anointing either of the two right leaning candidates as leader will simply mean that Reform and the Conservatives will be fighting over just one part of the electorate. The papers and right-leaning journalists are trying to get everyone focused on emotional issues whilst Starmer and his team just get on with government. | |||
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"A full return to the EU…. No A return to the eurozone market in the form of a FTA… which the were mad to leave in the first place!….. probably Will it include some form of “freedom of movement “… probably two probablys there but which goverment do you think will do that labour only have 4and half yrs left and then it be reform or torries and I can’t see them been interested or do you actually think starmer will be inn for a second term I’d say that’s slim to nil more on the nil Labour will get a second term because of two good reasons: 1) they are making progress and have achieved more con their first three months than the last Government did in its last full year. 2) Conservative members anointing either of the two right leaning candidates as leader will simply mean that Reform and the Conservatives will be fighting over just one part of the electorate. The papers and right-leaning journalists are trying to get everyone focused on emotional issues whilst Starmer and his team just get on with government." immigration isn’t an emotional issue tho that’s what you thought with brexit | |||
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"If Brexit was fair " It wasn't. It was based on a big ole bag of lies. " each of the countries that voted to stay " The UK was the country that had a referendum on leaving the EU. " should have given them independence " All the member countries of the EU are independent countries. | |||
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"Get over it we left ffs your life asnt changed apart from maybe your mental heal crying over brexit you live in a democracy it’s life " If life hasn’t changed then what was the point? | |||
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"If Brexit was fair It wasn't. It was based on a big ole bag of lies. each of the countries that voted to stay The UK was the country that had a referendum on leaving the EU. should have given them independence All the member countries of the EU are independent countries. "That sounds like an oxymoron - how can they be independent of a third party organisation's rules and laws have supremacy? | |||
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"If Brexit was fair It wasn't. It was based on a big ole bag of lies. each of the countries that voted to stay The UK was the country that had a referendum on leaving the EU. should have given them independence All the member countries of the EU are independent countries.
That sounds like an oxymoron - how can they be independent of a third party organisation's rules and laws have supremacy?"That is only true in some cases and for the most part does not apply to most areas of domestic policy. Where EU laws and regulations take precedent, this has been agreed to by the member states. All clubs have rules. You want to benefit from club membership, you need to abide by the clubs rules. | |||
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"If Brexit was fair It wasn't. It was based on a big ole bag of lies. each of the countries that voted to stay The UK was the country that had a referendum on leaving the EU. should have given them independence All the member countries of the EU are independent countries.
That sounds like an oxymoron - how can they be independent of a third party organisation's rules and laws have supremacy?
That is only true in some cases and for the most part does not apply to most areas of domestic policy. Where EU laws and regulations take precedent, this has been agreed to by the member states. All clubs have rules. You want to benefit from club membership, you need to abide by the clubs rules. "Yes, clubs have rules, usually about the length of socks and handshakes and stuff. On the other hand the EU has laws that determine national policies and must be complied with, or risk the wrath of their parliament, courts and judges. The EU also has majority voting (QMV). | |||
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"If Brexit was fair It wasn't. It was based on a big ole bag of lies. each of the countries that voted to stay The UK was the country that had a referendum on leaving the EU. should have given them independence All the member countries of the EU are independent countries.
That sounds like an oxymoron - how can they be independent of a third party organisation's rules and laws have supremacy?
That is only true in some cases and for the most part does not apply to most areas of domestic policy. Where EU laws and regulations take precedent, this has been agreed to by the member states. All clubs have rules. You want to benefit from club membership, you need to abide by the clubs rules.
Yes, clubs have rules, usually about the length of socks and handshakes and stuff. On the other hand the EU has laws that determine national policies and must be complied with, or risk the wrath of their parliament, courts and judges. The EU also has majority voting (QMV)."How did those laws get developed/written and agreed upon in the first place? Who was in the room? Who had right of veto? | |||
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"If Brexit was fair It wasn't. It was based on a big ole bag of lies. each of the countries that voted to stay The UK was the country that had a referendum on leaving the EU. should have given them independence All the member countries of the EU are independent countries.
That sounds like an oxymoron - how can they be independent of a third party organisation's rules and laws have supremacy?
That is only true in some cases and for the most part does not apply to most areas of domestic policy. Where EU laws and regulations take precedent, this has been agreed to by the member states. All clubs have rules. You want to benefit from club membership, you need to abide by the clubs rules.
Yes, clubs have rules, usually about the length of socks and handshakes and stuff. On the other hand the EU has laws that determine national policies and must be complied with, or risk the wrath of their parliament, courts and judges. The EU also has majority voting (QMV).
How did those laws get developed/written and agreed upon in the first place? Who was in the room? Who had right of veto?"Good questions. Not in my name for sure, nor in the name of the majority of UK citizens as it turned out. | |||
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"If Brexit was fair It wasn't. It was based on a big ole bag of lies. each of the countries that voted to stay The UK was the country that had a referendum on leaving the EU. should have given them independence All the member countries of the EU are independent countries.
That sounds like an oxymoron - how can they be independent of a third party organisation's rules and laws have supremacy?"The laws are brought in to each country. They get to vote on them. | |||
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"Get over it we left ffs your life asnt changed apart from maybe your mental heal crying over brexit you live in a democracy it’s life " If I was fooled into voting to damage the country in such a dire dramatic way, I honestly think I'd own up to it. Rather than trying to pretend it's all fine and telling people to "get over it". Especially when the detrimental impact is ongoing. | |||
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"If Brexit was fair It wasn't. It was based on a big ole bag of lies. each of the countries that voted to stay The UK was the country that had a referendum on leaving the EU. should have given them independence All the member countries of the EU are independent countries.
That sounds like an oxymoron - how can they be independent of a third party organisation's rules and laws have supremacy?
The laws are brought in to each country. They get to vote on them. "Yes, EU laws are 'rubber stamped' by member states, but is that democracy at a national level? | |||
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"If Brexit was fair It wasn't. It was based on a big ole bag of lies. each of the countries that voted to stay The UK was the country that had a referendum on leaving the EU. should have given them independence All the member countries of the EU are independent countries.
That sounds like an oxymoron - how can they be independent of a third party organisation's rules and laws have supremacy?
The laws are brought in to each country. They get to vote on them.
Yes, EU laws are 'rubber stamped' by member states, but is that democracy at a national level?"Each EU member state elects MEPs. MEPs then vote on the regulations, which then go to each country. There's a page on the European Commission website called "law-making process" that explains how it works. This is the kind of information that is taught in schools in other EU countries, which will make their populations much more difficult to hoodwink into voting against their own interests. | |||
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"If Brexit was fair It wasn't. It was based on a big ole bag of lies. each of the countries that voted to stay The UK was the country that had a referendum on leaving the EU. should have given them independence All the member countries of the EU are independent countries.
That sounds like an oxymoron - how can they be independent of a third party organisation's rules and laws have supremacy?
That is only true in some cases and for the most part does not apply to most areas of domestic policy. Where EU laws and regulations take precedent, this has been agreed to by the member states. All clubs have rules. You want to benefit from club membership, you need to abide by the clubs rules.
Yes, clubs have rules, usually about the length of socks and handshakes and stuff. On the other hand the EU has laws that determine national policies and must be complied with, or risk the wrath of their parliament, courts and judges. The EU also has majority voting (QMV).
How did those laws get developed/written and agreed upon in the first place? Who was in the room? Who had right of veto?
Good questions. Not in my name for sure, nor in the name of the majority of UK citizens as it turned out."That is not true though. You had the chance to vote for your MEP. Most people didn’t bother. Senior UK officials and UK Ministers collaborated and negotiated throughout. Nothing was done TO the UK it was all done WITH the UK. To assume the UK was not one of the big dogs in the room is simply silly. We had a unique deal as well. | |||
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"Get over it we left ffs your life asnt changed apart from maybe your mental heal crying over brexit you live in a democracy it’s life If I was fooled into voting to damage the country in such a dire dramatic way, I honestly think I'd own up to it. Rather than trying to pretend it's all fine and telling people to "get over it". Especially when the detrimental impact is ongoing. " own up to what you know I voted leave what are you moaning about now ffs your life asnt changed mine asnt most ppls asnt just man up get on with your life lol | |||
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"Get over it we left ffs your life asnt changed apart from maybe your mental heal crying over brexit you live in a democracy it’s life If I was fooled into voting to damage the country in such a dire dramatic way, I honestly think I'd own up to it. Rather than trying to pretend it's all fine and telling people to "get over it". Especially when the detrimental impact is ongoing. own up to what you know I voted leave what are you moaning about now ffs your life asnt changed mine asnt most ppls asnt just man up get on with your life lol"
So we are, or we aren't allowed to discuss the ongoing impact of Brexit? | |||
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"Get over it we left ffs your life asnt changed apart from maybe your mental heal crying over brexit you live in a democracy it’s life If I was fooled into voting to damage the country in such a dire dramatic way, I honestly think I'd own up to it. Rather than trying to pretend it's all fine and telling people to "get over it". Especially when the detrimental impact is ongoing. own up to what you know I voted leave what are you moaning about now ffs your life asnt changed mine asnt most ppls asnt just man up get on with your life lol
So we are, or we aren't allowed to discuss the ongoing impact of Brexit?"try talking about it without putting ppl down with the fooled into it and the lied to shit mate your trying to make out ppl who voted for it are stupid and thick you’ve been like that for years now | |||
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"Get over it we left ffs your life asnt changed apart from maybe your mental heal crying over brexit you live in a democracy it’s life If I was fooled into voting to damage the country in such a dire dramatic way, I honestly think I'd own up to it. Rather than trying to pretend it's all fine and telling people to "get over it". Especially when the detrimental impact is ongoing. own up to what you know I voted leave what are you moaning about now ffs your life asnt changed mine asnt most ppls asnt just man up get on with your life lol" If your life hasn’t changed then what was the point? | |||
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"Get over it we left ffs your life asnt changed apart from maybe your mental heal crying over brexit you live in a democracy it’s life If I was fooled into voting to damage the country in such a dire dramatic way, I honestly think I'd own up to it. Rather than trying to pretend it's all fine and telling people to "get over it". Especially when the detrimental impact is ongoing. own up to what you know I voted leave what are you moaning about now ffs your life asnt changed mine asnt most ppls asnt just man up get on with your life lol
So we are, or we aren't allowed to discuss the ongoing impact of Brexit?try talking about it without putting ppl down with the fooled into it and the lied to shit mate your trying to make out ppl who voted for it are stupid and thick you’ve been like that for years now "I haven't put anyone down. Have you mixed me up with someone else? People did vote to leave the EU based on misinformation and lies though. And look at the impact Brexit is having on the country. You may think that the billions it costs the economy every year isn't effecting you. But it effects everyone. Telling people we can't talk about it isn't the answer. | |||
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"Get over it we left ffs your life asnt changed apart from maybe your mental heal crying over brexit you live in a democracy it’s life If I was fooled into voting to damage the country in such a dire dramatic way, I honestly think I'd own up to it. Rather than trying to pretend it's all fine and telling people to "get over it". Especially when the detrimental impact is ongoing. own up to what you know I voted leave what are you moaning about now ffs your life asnt changed mine asnt most ppls asnt just man up get on with your life lol
So we are, or we aren't allowed to discuss the ongoing impact of Brexit?try talking about it without putting ppl down with the fooled into it and the lied to shit mate your trying to make out ppl who voted for it are stupid and thick you’ve been like that for years now
I haven't put anyone down. Have you mixed me up with someone else?
People did vote to leave the EU based on misinformation and lies though. And look at the impact Brexit is having on the country. You may think that the billions it costs the economy every year isn't effecting you. But it effects everyone. Telling people we can't talk about it isn't the answer."There were lies for sure. But on what basis are you claiming that people voted based on the lies? I thought you hate making generalisations a big groups of people. And yet here you are, making claims that all the people were stupid and believed in lies. Maybe keep your patronising mindset aside and try to understand why people really voted for it? | |||
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"Get over it we left ffs your life asnt changed apart from maybe your mental heal crying over brexit you live in a democracy it’s life If I was fooled into voting to damage the country in such a dire dramatic way, I honestly think I'd own up to it. Rather than trying to pretend it's all fine and telling people to "get over it". Especially when the detrimental impact is ongoing. own up to what you know I voted leave what are you moaning about now ffs your life asnt changed mine asnt most ppls asnt just man up get on with your life lol
So we are, or we aren't allowed to discuss the ongoing impact of Brexit?try talking about it without putting ppl down with the fooled into it and the lied to shit mate your trying to make out ppl who voted for it are stupid and thick you’ve been like that for years now
I haven't put anyone down. Have you mixed me up with someone else?
People did vote to leave the EU based on misinformation and lies though. And look at the impact Brexit is having on the country. You may think that the billions it costs the economy every year isn't effecting you. But it effects everyone. Telling people we can't talk about it isn't the answer.
There were lies for sure. But on what basis are you claiming that people voted based on the lies? I thought you hate making generalisations a big groups of people. And yet here you are, making claims that all the people were stupid and believed in lies. Maybe keep your patronising mindset aside and try to understand why people really voted for it?"Why did people really vote for it? I am assuming there will be nuance and specific reasons (potentially in some cases quite niche) rather than sweeping statements and macro groupings? | |||
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"If Brexit was fair It wasn't. It was based on a big ole bag of lies. each of the countries that voted to stay The UK was the country that had a referendum on leaving the EU. should have given them independence All the member countries of the EU are independent countries.
That sounds like an oxymoron - how can they be independent of a third party organisation's rules and laws have supremacy?
The laws are brought in to each country. They get to vote on them.
Yes, EU laws are 'rubber stamped' by member states, but is that democracy at a national level?
Each EU member state elects MEPs. MEPs then vote on the regulations, which then go to each country.
There's a page on the European Commission website called "law-making process" that explains how it works.
This is the kind of information that is taught in schools in other EU countries, which will make their populations much more difficult to hoodwink into voting against their own interests."Not EU indoctrination of the young surely? It's worse than I thought. | |||
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"If Brexit was fair It wasn't. It was based on a big ole bag of lies. each of the countries that voted to stay The UK was the country that had a referendum on leaving the EU. should have given them independence All the member countries of the EU are independent countries.
That sounds like an oxymoron - how can they be independent of a third party organisation's rules and laws have supremacy?
The laws are brought in to each country. They get to vote on them.
Yes, EU laws are 'rubber stamped' by member states, but is that democracy at a national level?
Each EU member state elects MEPs. MEPs then vote on the regulations, which then go to each country.
There's a page on the European Commission website called "law-making process" that explains how it works.
This is the kind of information that is taught in schools in other EU countries, which will make their populations much more difficult to hoodwink into voting against their own interests.
Not EU indoctrination of the young surely? It's worse than I thought."This is the world we live in now, understanding how the EU works is considered "indoctrination". People have been convinced to distrust knowledge, and to not believe science or experts. | |||
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" There were lies for sure. But on what basis are you claiming that people voted based on the lies? I thought you hate making generalisations a big groups of people. And yet here you are, making claims that all the people were stupid and believed in lies. Maybe keep your patronising mindset aside and try to understand why people really voted for it? Why did people really vote for it? I am assuming there will be nuance and specific reasons (potentially in some cases quite niche) rather than sweeping statements and macro groupings?" Sovereignty - The larger the group of people voting for a governing institution, the less power they have over it. Look at Germany's situation on the China tariffs. They did not want EU to impose tariffs on Chinese cars because if China retaliates, Germany would be fucked because they export a lot to China. And Germany has to live with it because politicians elected from other countries decided to do so. The EU is not just a trade union anymore. It's a politician's wet dream to form a superstate. Idiotic regulations - The EU regulations killed of the growth if tech sector in the EU. They already killed of AI too. Given the downhill path they are going in, it would be better for the UK if they can get control if the regulations within the country. Many voted that way because of immigration. While it's still not handled well, UK still has the power to do something about it. The EU on the other hand is trying to build a sharing model and forcing countries to take their "fair share". Poland is paying millions to just avoid taking more asylum seekers. | |||
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"If Brexit was fair It wasn't. It was based on a big ole bag of lies. each of the countries that voted to stay The UK was the country that had a referendum on leaving the EU. should have given them independence All the member countries of the EU are independent countries.
That sounds like an oxymoron - how can they be independent of a third party organisation's rules and laws have supremacy?
The laws are brought in to each country. They get to vote on them.
Yes, EU laws are 'rubber stamped' by member states, but is that democracy at a national level?
Each EU member state elects MEPs. MEPs then vote on the regulations, which then go to each country.
There's a page on the European Commission website called "law-making process" that explains how it works.
This is the kind of information that is taught in schools in other EU countries, which will make their populations much more difficult to hoodwink into voting against their own interests.
Not EU indoctrination of the young surely? It's worse than I thought.
This is the world we live in now, understanding how the EU works is considered "indoctrination".
People have been convinced to distrust knowledge, and to not believe science or experts.
"I'm sure the kids in Pyongyang have a commendable grasp of their country's politics under their supreme leader. An inspiration to us all. | |||
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"If Brexit was fair It wasn't. It was based on a big ole bag of lies. each of the countries that voted to stay The UK was the country that had a referendum on leaving the EU. should have given them independence All the member countries of the EU are independent countries.
That sounds like an oxymoron - how can they be independent of a third party organisation's rules and laws have supremacy?
The laws are brought in to each country. They get to vote on them.
Yes, EU laws are 'rubber stamped' by member states, but is that democracy at a national level?
Each EU member state elects MEPs. MEPs then vote on the regulations, which then go to each country.
There's a page on the European Commission website called "law-making process" that explains how it works.
This is the kind of information that is taught in schools in other EU countries, which will make their populations much more difficult to hoodwink into voting against their own interests.
Not EU indoctrination of the young surely? It's worse than I thought.
This is the world we live in now, understanding how the EU works is considered "indoctrination".
People have been convinced to distrust knowledge, and to not believe science or experts.
Who’s knowledge and from where ? We believed the experts and the scientists over covid you could say we where lied too about that and we were stupid and thick to believe them
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"If Brexit was fair It wasn't. It was based on a big ole bag of lies. each of the countries that voted to stay The UK was the country that had a referendum on leaving the EU. should have given them independence All the member countries of the EU are independent countries.
That sounds like an oxymoron - how can they be independent of a third party organisation's rules and laws have supremacy?
The laws are brought in to each country. They get to vote on them.
Yes, EU laws are 'rubber stamped' by member states, but is that democracy at a national level?
Each EU member state elects MEPs. MEPs then vote on the regulations, which then go to each country.
There's a page on the European Commission website called "law-making process" that explains how it works.
This is the kind of information that is taught in schools in other EU countries, which will make their populations much more difficult to hoodwink into voting against their own interests.
Not EU indoctrination of the young surely? It's worse than I thought.
This is the world we live in now, understanding how the EU works is considered "indoctrination".
People have been convinced to distrust knowledge, and to not believe science or experts.
I'm sure the kids in Pyongyang have a commendable grasp of their country's politics under their supreme leader. An inspiration to us all."So you are, or you are not saying having knowledge of political systems is "indoctrination"? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"If Brexit was fair It wasn't. It was based on a big ole bag of lies. each of the countries that voted to stay The UK was the country that had a referendum on leaving the EU. should have given them independence All the member countries of the EU are independent countries.
That sounds like an oxymoron - how can they be independent of a third party organisation's rules and laws have supremacy?
The laws are brought in to each country. They get to vote on them.
Yes, EU laws are 'rubber stamped' by member states, but is that democracy at a national level?
Each EU member state elects MEPs. MEPs then vote on the regulations, which then go to each country.
There's a page on the European Commission website called "law-making process" that explains how it works.
This is the kind of information that is taught in schools in other EU countries, which will make their populations much more difficult to hoodwink into voting against their own interests.
Not EU indoctrination of the young surely? It's worse than I thought.
This is the world we live in now, understanding how the EU works is considered "indoctrination".
People have been convinced to distrust knowledge, and to not believe science or experts.
I'm sure the kids in Pyongyang have a commendable grasp of their country's politics under their supreme leader. An inspiration to us all.
So you are, or you are not saying having knowledge of political systems is "indoctrination"?"You conveniently missed the work 'kids' out of your summary. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"If Brexit was fair It wasn't. It was based on a big ole bag of lies. each of the countries that voted to stay The UK was the country that had a referendum on leaving the EU. should have given them independence All the member countries of the EU are independent countries.
That sounds like an oxymoron - how can they be independent of a third party organisation's rules and laws have supremacy?
The laws are brought in to each country. They get to vote on them.
Yes, EU laws are 'rubber stamped' by member states, but is that democracy at a national level?
Each EU member state elects MEPs. MEPs then vote on the regulations, which then go to each country.
There's a page on the European Commission website called "law-making process" that explains how it works.
This is the kind of information that is taught in schools in other EU countries, which will make their populations much more difficult to hoodwink into voting against their own interests.
Not EU indoctrination of the young surely? It's worse than I thought.
This is the world we live in now, understanding how the EU works is considered "indoctrination".
People have been convinced to distrust knowledge, and to not believe science or experts.
I'm sure the kids in Pyongyang have a commendable grasp of their country's politics under their supreme leader. An inspiration to us all.
So you are, or you are not saying having knowledge of political systems is "indoctrination"?
You conveniently missed the work 'kids' out of your summary."I haven't mentioned "kids". Do you think people shouldn't be taught how the world works at school? Do you think having knowledge of these kind of things is "indoctrination"? Personally I think it's good for people to know how things work, especially in this example of the EU, and Brexit. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"If Brexit was fair It wasn't. It was based on a big ole bag of lies. each of the countries that voted to stay The UK was the country that had a referendum on leaving the EU. should have given them independence All the member countries of the EU are independent countries.
That sounds like an oxymoron - how can they be independent of a third party organisation's rules and laws have supremacy?
The laws are brought in to each country. They get to vote on them.
Yes, EU laws are 'rubber stamped' by member states, but is that democracy at a national level?
Each EU member state elects MEPs. MEPs then vote on the regulations, which then go to each country.
There's a page on the European Commission website called "law-making process" that explains how it works.
This is the kind of information that is taught in schools in other EU countries, which will make their populations much more difficult to hoodwink into voting against their own interests.
Not EU indoctrination of the young surely? It's worse than I thought.
This is the world we live in now, understanding how the EU works is considered "indoctrination".
People have been convinced to distrust knowledge, and to not believe science or experts.
I'm sure the kids in Pyongyang have a commendable grasp of their country's politics under their supreme leader. An inspiration to us all.
So you are, or you are not saying having knowledge of political systems is "indoctrination"?
You conveniently missed the work 'kids' out of your summary.
I haven't mentioned "kids".
Do you think people shouldn't be taught how the world works at school?
Do you think having knowledge of these kind of things is "indoctrination"?
Personally I think it's good for people to know how things work, especially in this example of the EU, and Brexit."Depends doesn't it? When does 'education' tip over into 'indoctrination'. It's an extremely fine line. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"If Brexit was fair It wasn't. It was based on a big ole bag of lies. each of the countries that voted to stay The UK was the country that had a referendum on leaving the EU. should have given them independence All the member countries of the EU are independent countries.
That sounds like an oxymoron - how can they be independent of a third party organisation's rules and laws have supremacy?
The laws are brought in to each country. They get to vote on them.
Yes, EU laws are 'rubber stamped' by member states, but is that democracy at a national level?
Each EU member state elects MEPs. MEPs then vote on the regulations, which then go to each country.
There's a page on the European Commission website called "law-making process" that explains how it works.
This is the kind of information that is taught in schools in other EU countries, which will make their populations much more difficult to hoodwink into voting against their own interests.
Not EU indoctrination of the young surely? It's worse than I thought.
This is the world we live in now, understanding how the EU works is considered "indoctrination".
People have been convinced to distrust knowledge, and to not believe science or experts.
I'm sure the kids in Pyongyang have a commendable grasp of their country's politics under their supreme leader. An inspiration to us all.
So you are, or you are not saying having knowledge of political systems is "indoctrination"?
You conveniently missed the work 'kids' out of your summary.
I haven't mentioned "kids".
Do you think people shouldn't be taught how the world works at school?
Do you think having knowledge of these kind of things is "indoctrination"?
Personally I think it's good for people to know how things work, especially in this example of the EU, and Brexit."id of agreed with you on this up until a few years back the pro palistine match’s look at how these students act at them they have learnt that at college and uni so I think it depends on who there getting taught off | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"If Brexit was fair It wasn't. It was based on a big ole bag of lies. each of the countries that voted to stay The UK was the country that had a referendum on leaving the EU. should have given them independence All the member countries of the EU are independent countries.
That sounds like an oxymoron - how can they be independent of a third party organisation's rules and laws have supremacy?
The laws are brought in to each country. They get to vote on them.
Yes, EU laws are 'rubber stamped' by member states, but is that democracy at a national level?
Each EU member state elects MEPs. MEPs then vote on the regulations, which then go to each country.
There's a page on the European Commission website called "law-making process" that explains how it works.
This is the kind of information that is taught in schools in other EU countries, which will make their populations much more difficult to hoodwink into voting against their own interests.
Not EU indoctrination of the young surely? It's worse than I thought.
This is the world we live in now, understanding how the EU works is considered "indoctrination".
People have been convinced to distrust knowledge, and to not believe science or experts.
I'm sure the kids in Pyongyang have a commendable grasp of their country's politics under their supreme leader. An inspiration to us all.
So you are, or you are not saying having knowledge of political systems is "indoctrination"?
You conveniently missed the work 'kids' out of your summary.
I haven't mentioned "kids".
Do you think people shouldn't be taught how the world works at school?
Do you think having knowledge of these kind of things is "indoctrination"?
Personally I think it's good for people to know how things work, especially in this example of the EU, and Brexit.
Depends doesn't it? When does 'education' tip over into 'indoctrination'. It's an extremely fine line."No, understanding how things works prevents indoctrination. Those who have knowledge are much more difficult to fool. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
