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UK national debt hits 100% of GDP, the highest level since 1960s
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UK national debt has hit 100% of the country’s annual economic output, the highest level since the 1960’s.
Now equivalent to £100,000 per household. And £100’s billions needed for austerity starved public services, social housing and welfare
Figures from the Office for National Statistics show the government’s debt pile as a share of gross domestic product increased by 4.3 percentage points over the year to August to reach a size equal to the annual value of everything produced in the economy.
Labour and tories have together made a six fold increase in the public debts since 1997, and the current £2.6trn would be significantly higher if new labours PFI was factored in.
Reportedly growing pressure on the government to ease tax increases and spending cuts pencilled in for the 30 October budget, after Keir Starmer told the public to expect “painful” decisions after finding what Labour called a £22bn hole in the public finances.
Flat economy, delayed interest rate cuts, everyone still skint and nervous, doom and gloom the only message from starmer.
What will the budget look like to get the economy going again |
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"It will be a standard labour budget... raise taxes, cut services. Nothing they are doing suggests they have learnt anything in opposition "
Where have you been for the last 14 years? We currently have the highest taxes since WWII, third world public services and the Tories borrowed more money than every previous government put together increasing public debt from £1tn to £2.8tn.
What do you think in these circumstances Labour should do? Or are you another of these whinging posters that fill up this forum but have nothing constructive to contribute?  |
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It’s not all bad , much of it is short term and being paid back & not all linked to BoE rates either. Rishi actually did a decent job on some of the Treasury bill auctions is in the last year, Boring huge amounts of money from foreign investors at 3% |
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"It’s not all bad , much of it is short term and being paid back & not all linked to BoE rates either. Rishi actually did a decent job on some of the Treasury bill auctions is in the last year, Boring huge amounts of money from foreign investors at 3%"
So the money got bored and ran off... |
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By *otMe66Man 14 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
"It’s not all bad , much of it is short term and being paid back & not all linked to BoE rates either. Rishi actually did a decent job on some of the Treasury bill auctions is in the last year, Boring huge amounts of money from foreign investors at 3%
So the money got bored and ran off..."
What?
|
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"It’s not all bad , much of it is short term and being paid back & not all linked to BoE rates either. Rishi actually did a decent job on some of the Treasury bill auctions is in the last year, Boring huge amounts of money from foreign investors at 3%
So the money got bored and ran off...
What?
"
Did you read the last sentence of the post I was replying to..? |
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By *otMe66Man 14 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
"It’s not all bad , much of it is short term and being paid back & not all linked to BoE rates either. Rishi actually did a decent job on some of the Treasury bill auctions is in the last year, Boring huge amounts of money from foreign investors at 3%
So the money got bored and ran off...
What?
Did you read the last sentence of the post I was replying to..?"
I did but I filled in the gaps, I didn’t with your reply |
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Just to add some context
Firstly, yes borrowing is now over 100% of GDP, the first time since the 1960's.
Gross domestic product is a monetary measure of the market value of all the goods and services produced and rendered in a given time period.
Some could argue that borrowing is so high because of because of 14 years of conservative mismanagement.
What can't be argued is our GDP in 2023 is reported to be 18% lower then it was in 2010 after Brexit. So even if borrowing stays the same our GDP as a percentage looks worse.
Again it's the conservative client media presenting the facts and figures they choose to try and dictate a narrative that's good for them. |
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"It’s not all bad , much of it is short term and being paid back & not all linked to BoE rates either. Rishi actually did a decent job on some of the Treasury bill auctions is in the last year, Boring huge amounts of money from foreign investors at 3%
So the money got bored and ran off...
What?
Did you read the last sentence of the post I was replying to..?
I did but I filled in the gaps, I didn’t with your reply"
I guess our sense of humour is not compatible. |
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"What can't be argued is our GDP in 2023 is reported to be 18% lower then it was in 2010 after Brexit."
I assume you mean that your statement can't be argued for because it's wildly inaccurate. UK GDP in 2023 was about level with what it was in 2010, there certainly hasn't been a dip of 18%. |
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By *irldnCouple 13 weeks ago
Brighton |
“GDP per capita has grown by a mere 4.3% over the past 16 years, compared to 46% in the years prior.” The report says the growing population has masked the UK's “atrocious” record on productivity (output per worker) which grew by just 0.6% a year in the 2010s.“ |
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"“GDP per capita has grown by a mere 4.3% over the past 16 years, compared to 46% in the years prior.” The report says the growing population has masked the UK's “atrocious” record on productivity (output per worker) which grew by just 0.6% a year in the 2010s.“"
An ageing population and 21.8% of population in working age are not working. What else do you expect? |
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By *irldnCouple 13 weeks ago
Brighton |
"“GDP per capita has grown by a mere 4.3% over the past 16 years, compared to 46% in the years prior.” The report says the growing population has masked the UK's “atrocious” record on productivity (output per worker) which grew by just 0.6% a year in the 2010s.“
An ageing population and 21.8% of population in working age are not working. What else do you expect?"
Nothing just sharing some stats. Time to cull the old folks and remove all benefits from working age people, bunch of slackers. |
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"“GDP per capita has grown by a mere 4.3% over the past 16 years, compared to 46% in the years prior.” The report says the growing population has masked the UK's “atrocious” record on productivity (output per worker) which grew by just 0.6% a year in the 2010s.“
An ageing population and 21.8% of population in working age are not working. What else do you expect?
Nothing just sharing some stats. Time to cull the old folks and remove all benefits from working age people, bunch of slackers. "
Culling old people - A conspiracy theorist would say that's exactly what China was trying with Covid 
Benefits for working age people - I don't think removing it completely is the answer. But definitely something has to change there. It's insane that more than 1 in 5 working age people just choose not to work. No one can convince me that these people have legit reasons not to work. |
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By *irldnCouple 13 weeks ago
Brighton |
"“GDP per capita has grown by a mere 4.3% over the past 16 years, compared to 46% in the years prior.” The report says the growing population has masked the UK's “atrocious” record on productivity (output per worker) which grew by just 0.6% a year in the 2010s.“
An ageing population and 21.8% of population in working age are not working. What else do you expect?
Nothing just sharing some stats. Time to cull the old folks and remove all benefits from working age people, bunch of slackers.
Culling old people - A conspiracy theorist would say that's exactly what China was trying with Covid
Benefits for working age people - I don't think removing it completely is the answer. But definitely something has to change there. It's insane that more than 1 in 5 working age people just choose not to work. No one can convince me that these people have legit reasons not to work."
We could also ensure we have a better education system and train up better skilled workers of the future and then send home all the highly paid immigrants replacing them with highly paid Brits 😉 |
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"“GDP per capita has grown by a mere 4.3% over the past 16 years, compared to 46% in the years prior.” The report says the growing population has masked the UK's “atrocious” record on productivity (output per worker) which grew by just 0.6% a year in the 2010s.“
An ageing population and 21.8% of population in working age are not working. What else do you expect?
Nothing just sharing some stats. Time to cull the old folks and remove all benefits from working age people, bunch of slackers.
Culling old people - A conspiracy theorist would say that's exactly what China was trying with Covid
Benefits for working age people - I don't think removing it completely is the answer. But definitely something has to change there. It's insane that more than 1 in 5 working age people just choose not to work. No one can convince me that these people have legit reasons not to work.
We could also ensure we have a better education system and train up better skilled workers of the future and then send home all the highly paid immigrants replacing them with highly paid Brits 😉"
So the current education system in Britain is so bad that people who went through education systems in developing countries have to fill high skilled jobs? Something doesn't seem to add up here. |
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By *otMe66Man 13 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
"“GDP per capita has grown by a mere 4.3% over the past 16 years, compared to 46% in the years prior.” The report says the growing population has masked the UK's “atrocious” record on productivity (output per worker) which grew by just 0.6% a year in the 2010s.“
An ageing population and 21.8% of population in working age are not working. What else do you expect?
Nothing just sharing some stats. Time to cull the old folks and remove all benefits from working age people, bunch of slackers.
Culling old people - A conspiracy theorist would say that's exactly what China was trying with Covid
Benefits for working age people - I don't think removing it completely is the answer. But definitely something has to change there. It's insane that more than 1 in 5 working age people just choose not to work. No one can convince me that these people have legit reasons not to work.
We could also ensure we have a better education system and train up better skilled workers of the future and then send home all the highly paid immigrants replacing them with highly paid Brits 😉
So the current education system in Britain is so bad that people who went through education systems in developing countries have to fill high skilled jobs? Something doesn't seem to add up here."
It doesn't add up, it seems easier to be critical inwards |
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By *irldnCouple 13 weeks ago
Brighton |
"“GDP per capita has grown by a mere 4.3% over the past 16 years, compared to 46% in the years prior.” The report says the growing population has masked the UK's “atrocious” record on productivity (output per worker) which grew by just 0.6% a year in the 2010s.“
An ageing population and 21.8% of population in working age are not working. What else do you expect?
Nothing just sharing some stats. Time to cull the old folks and remove all benefits from working age people, bunch of slackers.
Culling old people - A conspiracy theorist would say that's exactly what China was trying with Covid
Benefits for working age people - I don't think removing it completely is the answer. But definitely something has to change there. It's insane that more than 1 in 5 working age people just choose not to work. No one can convince me that these people have legit reasons not to work.
We could also ensure we have a better education system and train up better skilled workers of the future and then send home all the highly paid immigrants replacing them with highly paid Brits 😉
So the current education system in Britain is so bad that people who went through education systems in developing countries have to fill high skilled jobs? Something doesn't seem to add up here."
I was joking (the wink being the clue) but now you say it…why do we have immigrants filling highly paid highly skilled jobs in the UK? Why can’t we fill these jobs with British people? |
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"“GDP per capita has grown by a mere 4.3% over the past 16 years, compared to 46% in the years prior.” The report says the growing population has masked the UK's “atrocious” record on productivity (output per worker) which grew by just 0.6% a year in the 2010s.“
An ageing population and 21.8% of population in working age are not working. What else do you expect?
Nothing just sharing some stats. Time to cull the old folks and remove all benefits from working age people, bunch of slackers.
Culling old people - A conspiracy theorist would say that's exactly what China was trying with Covid
Benefits for working age people - I don't think removing it completely is the answer. But definitely something has to change there. It's insane that more than 1 in 5 working age people just choose not to work. No one can convince me that these people have legit reasons not to work.
We could also ensure we have a better education system and train up better skilled workers of the future and then send home all the highly paid immigrants replacing them with highly paid Brits 😉
So the current education system in Britain is so bad that people who went through education systems in developing countries have to fill high skilled jobs? Something doesn't seem to add up here.
I was joking (the wink being the clue) but now you say it…why do we have immigrants filling highly paid highly skilled jobs in the UK? Why can’t we fill these jobs with British people?"
It's because 21.8% of working age British people aren't working and this % will only keep increasing. The reason they aren't working has fuck all to do with the education system here. Getting skills isn't hard if one sets their eyes on it.
But why to put all the effort and go to work when you have a welfare system that will pay you anyway? |
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By *irldnCouple 13 weeks ago
Brighton |
"“GDP per capita has grown by a mere 4.3% over the past 16 years, compared to 46% in the years prior.” The report says the growing population has masked the UK's “atrocious” record on productivity (output per worker) which grew by just 0.6% a year in the 2010s.“
An ageing population and 21.8% of population in working age are not working. What else do you expect?
Nothing just sharing some stats. Time to cull the old folks and remove all benefits from working age people, bunch of slackers.
Culling old people - A conspiracy theorist would say that's exactly what China was trying with Covid
Benefits for working age people - I don't think removing it completely is the answer. But definitely something has to change there. It's insane that more than 1 in 5 working age people just choose not to work. No one can convince me that these people have legit reasons not to work.
We could also ensure we have a better education system and train up better skilled workers of the future and then send home all the highly paid immigrants replacing them with highly paid Brits 😉
So the current education system in Britain is so bad that people who went through education systems in developing countries have to fill high skilled jobs? Something doesn't seem to add up here.
I was joking (the wink being the clue) but now you say it…why do we have immigrants filling highly paid highly skilled jobs in the UK? Why can’t we fill these jobs with British people?
It's because 21.8% of working age British people aren't working and this % will only keep increasing. The reason they aren't working has fuck all to do with the education system here. Getting skills isn't hard if one sets their eyes on it.
But why to put all the effort and go to work when you have a welfare system that will pay you anyway?"
I’d say the education system absolutely does play a part. Not the only part but certainly a part. Better outcomes from education (including inspiring teachers and practical job market related skills being taught along with better career advice and a more wide spread apprenticeship system focused on both blue and white collar skills) would help with creating aspiration and opportunities.
Govt can incentivise businesses operating in the UK to support this approach to help increase indigenous skills base and reduce the need for highly skilled immigrants coming here
So what would be your solution? |
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"
I’d say the education system absolutely does play a part. Not the only part but certainly a part. Better outcomes from education (including inspiring teachers and practical job market related skills being taught along with better career advice and a more wide spread apprenticeship system focused on both blue and white collar skills) would help with creating aspiration and opportunities.
Govt can incentivise businesses operating in the UK to support this approach to help increase indigenous skills base and reduce the need for highly skilled immigrants coming here
So what would be your solution?"
We are talking about people unwilling to go to work. Your solution works for people who want to work but couldn't find a job. Not for people who are unwilling to work.
You want the people unwilling to work to find skills and get to work? Say that welfare payments will be given only for a few months and they have to find a job in that time. Watch them get up, skill themselves and find a job in no time.
Humans are resilient that way. You just have to stop coddling them all the time. |
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By *irldnCouple 13 weeks ago
Brighton |
"
I’d say the education system absolutely does play a part. Not the only part but certainly a part. Better outcomes from education (including inspiring teachers and practical job market related skills being taught along with better career advice and a more wide spread apprenticeship system focused on both blue and white collar skills) would help with creating aspiration and opportunities.
Govt can incentivise businesses operating in the UK to support this approach to help increase indigenous skills base and reduce the need for highly skilled immigrants coming here
So what would be your solution?
We are talking about people unwilling to go to work. Your solution works for people who want to work but couldn't find a job. Not for people who are unwilling to work.
You want the people unwilling to work to find skills and get to work? Say that welfare payments will be given only for a few months and they have to find a job in that time. Watch them get up, skill themselves and find a job in no time.
Humans are resilient that way. You just have to stop coddling them all the time."
No problem with that. But the education needs to support it too.
Now are you sure all those 21% of adults don’t work because they don’t want to, are there some who genuinely can’t? Are they some who don’t actually need to? Are all of those 21% on benefits? |
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"
I’d say the education system absolutely does play a part. Not the only part but certainly a part. Better outcomes from education (including inspiring teachers and practical job market related skills being taught along with better career advice and a more wide spread apprenticeship system focused on both blue and white collar skills) would help with creating aspiration and opportunities.
Govt can incentivise businesses operating in the UK to support this approach to help increase indigenous skills base and reduce the need for highly skilled immigrants coming here
So what would be your solution?
We are talking about people unwilling to go to work. Your solution works for people who want to work but couldn't find a job. Not for people who are unwilling to work.
You want the people unwilling to work to find skills and get to work? Say that welfare payments will be given only for a few months and they have to find a job in that time. Watch them get up, skill themselves and find a job in no time.
Humans are resilient that way. You just have to stop coddling them all the time.
No problem with that. But the education needs to support it too.
Now are you sure all those 21% of adults don’t work because they don’t want to, are there some who genuinely can’t? Are they some who don’t actually need to? Are all of those 21% on benefits?"
British education system is one of the best in the world. If kids who went to no-name schools without toilets in third world countries can build skills to find well paying jobs all around the world, British people can do too.
https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm5804/cmselect/cmworpen/142/report.html
9.3 million working age people are claiming benefits. Sure, some may have genuine disability. But I don't think they will even account for one of those nine millions. Look around you. Are you saying that one in five people around you are worthy of sitting on their ass and claim benefits for their whole life?
The trend is clearly there. Number of people living off welfare has been increasing for awhile. And then, ther is the ageing population. It will become practically impossible to sustain all this at some point. Then people can cry all about the moral good and moral bad of supporting people who don't work. But reality wouldn't give a rat's ass about it. It won't change it's opinion because people are sad or angry. As Bill Maher puts it - That's the difference between reality and your mommy. |
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By *irldnCouple 13 weeks ago
Brighton |
"
I’d say the education system absolutely does play a part. Not the only part but certainly a part. Better outcomes from education (including inspiring teachers and practical job market related skills being taught along with better career advice and a more wide spread apprenticeship system focused on both blue and white collar skills) would help with creating aspiration and opportunities.
Govt can incentivise businesses operating in the UK to support this approach to help increase indigenous skills base and reduce the need for highly skilled immigrants coming here
So what would be your solution?
We are talking about people unwilling to go to work. Your solution works for people who want to work but couldn't find a job. Not for people who are unwilling to work.
You want the people unwilling to work to find skills and get to work? Say that welfare payments will be given only for a few months and they have to find a job in that time. Watch them get up, skill themselves and find a job in no time.
Humans are resilient that way. You just have to stop coddling them all the time.
No problem with that. But the education needs to support it too.
Now are you sure all those 21% of adults don’t work because they don’t want to, are there some who genuinely can’t? Are they some who don’t actually need to? Are all of those 21% on benefits?
British education system is one of the best in the world. If kids who went to no-name schools without toilets in third world countries can build skills to find well paying jobs all around the world, British people can do too.
https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm5804/cmselect/cmworpen/142/report.html
9.3 million working age people are claiming benefits. Sure, some may have genuine disability. But I don't think they will even account for one of those nine millions. Look around you. Are you saying that one in five people around you are worthy of sitting on their ass and claim benefits for their whole life?
The trend is clearly there. Number of people living off welfare has been increasing for awhile. And then, ther is the ageing population. It will become practically impossible to sustain all this at some point. Then people can cry all about the moral good and moral bad of supporting people who don't work. But reality wouldn't give a rat's ass about it. It won't change it's opinion because people are sad or angry. As Bill Maher puts it - That's the difference between reality and your mommy. "
I hear you but let’s start by getting rid of these so called highly skilled immigrants 😉
British jobs for British workers. Find a way to educate/train Brits and incentivise companies to stop bringing people in on visas.
Just think of the brain drain from those countries the immigrants are coming from! Surely they should use their skills and knowledge to bolster their own countries first? 🤷🏻♂️
***I am playing devil’s advocate in case anyone takes offence |
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I hear you but let’s start by getting rid of these so called highly skilled immigrants 😉
British jobs for British workers. Find a way to educate/train Brits and incentivise companies to stop bringing people in on visas.
"
As I explained above, you can do it only if you take away the welfare payments. These people aren't being inactive because the system doesn't provide them the path but because the system allows them to do nothing and still receive everything they want.
"
Just think of the brain drain from those countries the immigrants are coming from! Surely they should use their skills and knowledge to bolster their own countries first? 🤷🏻♂️
"
Most people who live in other countries send money back home, at least as investments. For every person, who goes to other countries, there are plenty who stay back too. So brain drain isn't really much of an issue for high skilled jobs. Indian tech company salaries have sky rocketed in recent years. They are on par with most European salaries, lower than American, Swiss and Singaporean salaries though.
It's the low skilled workers who migrate a lot these days. |
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By *irldnCouple 13 weeks ago
Brighton |
"
I hear you but let’s start by getting rid of these so called highly skilled immigrants 😉
British jobs for British workers. Find a way to educate/train Brits and incentivise companies to stop bringing people in on visas.
As I explained above, you can do it only if you take away the welfare payments. These people aren't being inactive because the system doesn't provide them the path but because the system allows them to do nothing and still receive everything they want.
Just think of the brain drain from those countries the immigrants are coming from! Surely they should use their skills and knowledge to bolster their own countries first? 🤷🏻♂️
Most people who live in other countries send money back home, at least as investments. For every person, who goes to other countries, there are plenty who stay back too. So brain drain isn't really much of an issue for high skilled jobs. Indian tech company salaries have sky rocketed in recent years. They are on par with most European salaries, lower than American, Swiss and Singaporean salaries though.
It's the low skilled workers who migrate a lot these days."
In that case the highly skilled should leave the UK and go home. If the salaries are comparable to the UK, then the cost of living must be lower no? So they’d be positively rich over there? AND they can live in the comfortable knowledge that their taxes are not funding millions of workshy welfare claimants. I mean why stay in the UK if it is so shit and not to their liking? |
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I hear you but let’s start by getting rid of these so called highly skilled immigrants 😉
British jobs for British workers. Find a way to educate/train Brits and incentivise companies to stop bringing people in on visas.
As I explained above, you can do it only if you take away the welfare payments. These people aren't being inactive because the system doesn't provide them the path but because the system allows them to do nothing and still receive everything they want.
Just think of the brain drain from those countries the immigrants are coming from! Surely they should use their skills and knowledge to bolster their own countries first? 🤷🏻♂️
Most people who live in other countries send money back home, at least as investments. For every person, who goes to other countries, there are plenty who stay back too. So brain drain isn't really much of an issue for high skilled jobs. Indian tech company salaries have sky rocketed in recent years. They are on par with most European salaries, lower than American, Swiss and Singaporean salaries though.
It's the low skilled workers who migrate a lot these days.
In that case the highly skilled should leave the UK and go home. If the salaries are comparable to the UK, then the cost of living must be lower no? So they’d be positively rich over there? AND they can live in the comfortable knowledge that their taxes are not funding millions of workshy welfare claimants. I mean why stay in the UK if it is so shit and not to their liking? "
The only tech workers from India moving to Europe are the ones who move for cultural reasons. They either like European culture better or they just want to experience it for a few years and move on somewhere else. And some families still believe working in a Western country is a matter of pride. There is no monetary gain for tech workers in moving to Europe anymore(except Switzerland).
I personally know 4 Indian families who moved out of UK in last year, either back to India or to the US. And two guys who rejected job offers in Germany and Sweden because they figured out they are financially better off in India. The trend is changing in that aspect.
Majority of immigration to the UK from India last year have been in care and hospitality. Most Eastern European receptionists in hotels have been replaced by Indians in the last couple of years. That makes sense because care and hospitality jobs in India still pays much less than Europe. Same applies for other low paying jobs too. |
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