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Germany reintroduces border checks
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By *irldn OP Couple 17 weeks ago
Brighton |
So…that lack of sovereignty by being a member of the EU!!!!
“Germany’s decision to reintroduce border control from Monday is sending shockwaves across the European Union, with critics denouncing the move as “unacceptable” and accusing the government of panicking in the face of domestic political pressure.
The passport-free Schengen zone is widely seen in the EU as one of the bloc’s greatest achievements, allowing 420 million people to travel seamlessly across the continent without the hassle of border controls or customs checks.
But this signature policy is now under threat as Germany prepares to reintroduce controls at all its land borders from Monday. The restrictions are expected to stay in place until mid-March.
Dirk Wiese, a parliamentarian with Olaf Scholz’s centre-left Social Democratic Party (SPD) in the Bundestag insisted that the new controls are justified. “The governing coalition has presented effective and legally secure proposals to further reduce irregular migration in our country,” he told i.
“Our proposals are appropriate and will better enforce rejections at the German borders. We are targeting threats such as Islamist terrorism and violent crime even more intensively. Quickly, consistently, and sustainably.”” |
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By *irldn OP Couple 17 weeks ago
Brighton |
"So…that lack of sovereignty by being a member of the EU!!!!
Let's see how the EU reacts to this, and whether they think that Germany has that right to sovereignty."
Indeed. But in reality what can they do? |
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"So…that lack of sovereignty by being a member of the EU!!!!
Let's see how the EU reacts to this, and whether they think that Germany has that right to sovereignty."
Member States do not seem as keen as Germany on this from what I read. Apparently some bordering countries with Germany already have border controls. I think this latest move puts borders up with the remaining neighbours, including France. The rise of certain political groups in Germany maybe a factor in this as well as 3 people being murdered by an asylum seeker. Temporary only borders are allowed in the EU as a last resort only to certain threats. |
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I remember Denmark often doing border checks with Sweden because of criminals from Sweden. Those checks were temporary. I am not sure how long Germany will continue doing this. It looks like a last ditch measure by the government to try and woo the voter base.
If it is long term, EU will surely react to it. If they react to it, people will start questioning German sovereignty in this matter. If they don't react to it, EU will be criticised for treating Germany with leniency. It's going to be a fun few days for the EU. |
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By *irldn OP Couple 17 weeks ago
Brighton |
"They should never have been stopped. What idiot thought getting rid of border checks was a good idea? Recipe for disaster. "
I guess the idea was the border of the EU as a whole should serve the purpose rather than the member state borders. |
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"They should never have been stopped. What idiot thought getting rid of border checks was a good idea? Recipe for disaster.
I guess the idea was the border of the EU as a whole should serve the purpose rather than the member state borders."
It's a step towards making EU a political organisation instead of it just being an economic union. |
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By *otMe66Man 17 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
"They should never have been stopped. What idiot thought getting rid of border checks was a good idea? Recipe for disaster.
I guess the idea was the border of the EU as a whole should serve the purpose rather than the member state borders.
It's a step towards making EU a political organisation instead of it just being an economic union."
I’m convinced they’re already there, it’s Joe Public who need to catch on |
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By *ronisMan 17 weeks ago
Edinburgh |
"They should never have been stopped. What idiot thought getting rid of border checks was a good idea? Recipe for disaster.
I guess the idea was the border of the EU as a whole should serve the purpose rather than the member state borders."
They guessed wrong. |
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By *ronisMan 17 weeks ago
Edinburgh |
"They should never have been stopped. What idiot thought getting rid of border checks was a good idea? Recipe for disaster.
I guess the idea was the border of the EU as a whole should serve the purpose rather than the member state borders.
It's a step towards making EU a political organisation instead of it just being an economic union."
It was never about economics. Ever closer union means national governments having less power. |
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By *irldn OP Couple 17 weeks ago
Brighton |
"They should never have been stopped. What idiot thought getting rid of border checks was a good idea? Recipe for disaster.
I guess the idea was the border of the EU as a whole should serve the purpose rather than the member state borders.
It's a step towards making EU a political organisation instead of it just being an economic union.
It was never about economics. Ever closer union means national governments having less power."
Ah well a United States of Europe on our doorstep with almost 1/2 billion potential customers seems like something it might be good to have good relationships with  |
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By *ronisMan 17 weeks ago
Edinburgh |
"They should never have been stopped. What idiot thought getting rid of border checks was a good idea? Recipe for disaster.
I guess the idea was the border of the EU as a whole should serve the purpose rather than the member state borders.
It's a step towards making EU a political organisation instead of it just being an economic union.
It was never about economics. Ever closer union means national governments having less power.
Ah well a United States of Europe on our doorstep with almost 1/2 billion potential customers seems like something it might be good to have good relationships with "
What has political union got to do with trade or good relations? |
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"They should never have been stopped. What idiot thought getting rid of border checks was a good idea? Recipe for disaster.
I guess the idea was the border of the EU as a whole should serve the purpose rather than the member state borders.
It's a step towards making EU a political organisation instead of it just being an economic union.
It was never about economics. Ever closer union means national governments having less power.
Ah well a United States of Europe on our doorstep with almost 1/2 billion potential customers seems like something it might be good to have good relationships with "
Different people have different priorities I guess. |
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Seems that Germany is placing their Federal Republic over and above EU Federalisation (Which is intra-governmental essentially). That's not how it's supposed to work. I don't understand what Germany are doing and why. It makes no sense. |
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By *irldn OP Couple 17 weeks ago
Brighton |
"They should never have been stopped. What idiot thought getting rid of border checks was a good idea? Recipe for disaster.
I guess the idea was the border of the EU as a whole should serve the purpose rather than the member state borders.
It's a step towards making EU a political organisation instead of it just being an economic union.
It was never about economics. Ever closer union means national governments having less power.
Ah well a United States of Europe on our doorstep with almost 1/2 billion potential customers seems like something it might be good to have good relationships with
What has political union got to do with trade or good relations?"
I’ll answer that when you explain on the other thread why Harris’ economic policies are analogous to Soviet/Venezuelan policies |
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"They should never have been stopped. What idiot thought getting rid of border checks was a good idea? Recipe for disaster.
I guess the idea was the border of the EU as a whole should serve the purpose rather than the member state borders.
It's a step towards making EU a political organisation instead of it just being an economic union.
It was never about economics. Ever closer union means national governments having less power.
Ah well a United States of Europe on our doorstep with almost 1/2 billion potential customers seems like something it might be good to have good relationships with "
As far as I can see we're still trading with Europe and the relationship is fine. Where's the problem? |
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By *irldn OP Couple 17 weeks ago
Brighton |
"They should never have been stopped. What idiot thought getting rid of border checks was a good idea? Recipe for disaster.
I guess the idea was the border of the EU as a whole should serve the purpose rather than the member state borders.
It's a step towards making EU a political organisation instead of it just being an economic union.
It was never about economics. Ever closer union means national governments having less power.
Ah well a United States of Europe on our doorstep with almost 1/2 billion potential customers seems like something it might be good to have good relationships with
As far as I can see we're still trading with Europe and the relationship is fine. Where's the problem?"
Never said we weren’t. But if anyone thinks that trade is frictionless like it was before they are living in cloud cuckoo land. The relationship was damaged by the Tories and Brexit. It needs a reset.
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I'm not a one world globalist or a little Englander but having travelled on the continental I quickly saw the complete sense of the Shengen zone. we went to France, Belgium and the Netherlands (before brexit obviously) and for people living there, it just made sense. to stop at each country's border would be a silly waste of time. free movement on the continent makes COMPLETE sense. anyway what can the EU gonna do now? fine Germany, sanction officials? fire diplomats? or just make Sholtz and the gang write out 'Ich liebe EU' a thousand times? I sure don't envy the week ahead for EU officials. ever tried arguing with a German? from personal experience I can say you might not lose the argument but that ain't the same as winning. |
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By *irldn OP Couple 17 weeks ago
Brighton |
" ever tried arguing with a German? from personal experience I can say you might not lose the argument but that ain't the same as winning"
That made me LOL as I totally get what you mean but couldn’t explain it. Like you walk away having thought you achieved all you wanted but are left with some nagging thoughts that it isn’t actually what just happened! |
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" ever tried arguing with a German? from personal experience I can say you might not lose the argument but that ain't the same as winning
That made me LOL as I totally get what you mean but couldn’t explain it. Like you walk away having thought you achieved all you wanted but are left with some nagging thoughts that it isn’t actually what just happened!"
haha. it's artful in a way |
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"I'm not a one world globalist or a little Englander but having travelled on the continental I quickly saw the complete sense of the Shengen zone. we went to France, Belgium and the Netherlands (before brexit obviously) and for people living there, it just made sense. to stop at each country's border would be a silly waste of time. free movement on the continent makes COMPLETE sense. anyway what can the EU gonna do now? fine Germany, sanction officials? fire diplomats? or just make Sholtz and the gang write out 'Ich liebe EU' a thousand times? I sure don't envy the week ahead for EU officials. ever tried arguing with a German? from personal experience I can say you might not lose the argument but that ain't the same as winning. "
The Schengen zone is one of those utopian ideas that always become victim to the law of unintended consequences.
A brilliant idea as long as the external border is secure. It isn't, so Schengen is a complete dogs breakfast.
Ever tried arguing with a German? Book, film and T shirt. I'm married to one.
How are the border controls working? I'll tell you on Sunday after I drive into Germany from Luxembourg.
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By *coptoCouple 17 weeks ago
Côte d'Azur & Great Yarmouth |
“… with critics denouncing the move [border control] as “unacceptable”
And which critics might these be? ANY country can carry out border or customs checks, normally at random but most frequently at places like Ventimilia, where the shit that’s made it to Italy crosses into France on its way to Calais where it can get in a dinghy to Dover. When we go to the Saturday market, it’s advisable to carry ID to avoid delay if stopped. No biggie, but good anti-EU propaganda.
Hotlovefun42, we very frequently cross the Sauer by car, I doubt they’ll be much border control at Echternach or Bollendorf-Pont! |
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Finally back in Germany after our drive up from Spain.
Border controls? None.
From Spain (La Jonquera) into France, not even the usual gendarmes hanging around at the first toll booths.
France into Luxembourg, zero in either direction.
Luxembourg (Wasserbillig) into Germany, nothing. We were almost at Cologne before we saw our first police car.
We even detoured into rural Belgium and crossed back on a minor road and still nothing.
Methinks this "border control" idea is not much more than window dressing from a beleagured government.
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"They should never have been stopped. What idiot thought getting rid of border checks was a good idea? Recipe for disaster.
I guess the idea was the border of the EU as a whole should serve the purpose rather than the member state borders.
It's a step towards making EU a political organisation instead of it just being an economic union.
It was never about economics. Ever closer union means national governments having less power.
Ah well a United States of Europe on our doorstep with almost 1/2 billion potential customers seems like something it might be good to have good relationships with
As far as I can see we're still trading with Europe and the relationship is fine. Where's the problem?
Never said we weren’t. But if anyone thinks that trade is frictionless like it was before they are living in cloud cuckoo land. The relationship was damaged by the Tories and Brexit. It needs a reset.
"
A reset...hmmm, sounds very much like a lefty term for "please can we come back" to me. This whole thread seems to highlight the issues the good majority of the UK wanted to get away from...ie we'll have our hard and fast rules but it's ok if you break them unless you're the UK. |
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By *coptoCouple 16 weeks ago
Côte d'Azur & Great Yarmouth |
"... hard and fast rules but it's ok if you break them unless you're the UK"
We didn't break 'em, we just "opted out" of 'em! We didn't pay our full whack (the Thatcher rebate), refused the Social Chapter and its protection for workers, didn't join the single currency and so prevent our big banks from manipulating exchange rates... |
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""... hard and fast rules but it's ok if you break them unless you're the UK"
We didn't break 'em, we just "opted out" of 'em! We didn't pay our full whack (the Thatcher rebate), refused the Social Chapter and its protection for workers, didn't join the single currency and so prevent our big banks from manipulating exchange rates..."
I think you missed the point. We would abide by the rules when the “good boys of Europe club” broke them, if we deviated from the Euro-Love in -dreamfest we were demonised while France and Germany looked after their own self-interest, and when rules were broken we would do the dutiful thing and accept the clobbering and pay up while France and Germany seemed to never get penalised for anything they did. The “hard and fast” rules seemed to be a bit “jelly and slow” when it came to the “club”. The EU was designed by France and Germany largely for the benefit of France and Germany, successive British governments just tried gaslighting the British people that it wasn’t when we could all see that it was. |
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