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Tory leadership contest
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 . But they only have to appeal to the members, to finally get elected to the role. Their track record in recent years hasn't produced gems.
Kemi is someone I find quite scary | |||
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"Amidst all the chaos going around, the Tories are getting ready to find a new leader. The contestants are: Robert Jenrick Tom Tungendhat James Cleverly Mel Stride Priti Patel Kemi Badenoch Odds seem to favour Kemi. I also believe that she is probably the best option of all. Still I feel like the Tories have a long road ahead before becoming a serious contender again and whoever takes over now will only be a temporary caretaker before a real leader shows up. Your thoughts?" Why do you find Kemi scary? | |||
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"I'm intrigued by how the Tories are going to resolve what appears to be a structural fault in their party. Basically they have two vociferous but opposing factions; the one-nation centre right members, and the right wing "true Conservatives". They basically loathe each other (look at Conservative Home comments), the true Conservatives calling the centre right guys "Wets" and wanting them to defect to the Lib Dems, and the Wets fearful that the extreme right wing views of the true Conservatives make them a better fit with Reform. The six leadership candidates are each trying to continue the "fudge it" approach of patch and mend, Cameron's original strategy, but this was blown away by his Brexit miscaluation resulting in 8 years of very public Tory infighting which they got away with because Labour was led by the unelectable Corbyn. History suggests that split parties don't win elections, and although extreme policies attract certain voters, you win elections from the centre. Add to this the 2024 perfect storm of a Lib Dem revival, and UKIPs reincarnation as Reform. The Tories appear well and truly fucked as not one of the pitiful six has the charisma of a lettuce let alone a leader." Truly awful I agree and getting weaker every passing day. Labour inherited a recovering economy, inflation stabilised, interest rates likely to start slowly falling. Provided they don’t mess up I doubt we will see the tories back anywhere for a long while. | |||
"The contestants are: Robert Jenrick Tom Tungendhat James Cleverly Mel Stride Priti Patel Kemi Badenoch Your thoughts?" Gee, what a list! I don't know which I'd prefer: The dude who accepted bribes to approve illegal housing developments. The dude who wants LESS human rights laws, making Jacob Rees-Mogg drool and crack a chub thinking about using 10-year-olds to clean his chimneys The dude who made a joke about drugging and r-wording his wife. The dude who forced through a particularly unpleasant piece of legislation called the Loan Charge that resulted in thousands of bankruptcies and dozens of suicides. The woman whose campaign slogan is "Vote for me or I'll give you a Chinese Burn" Or the Woman whose name is LITERALLY "Bad Enoch" and is an anti-immigration child of immigrants. Oh, the irony.  | |||
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"I'm intrigued by how the Tories are going to resolve what appears to be a structural fault in their party. Basically they have two vociferous but opposing factions; the one-nation centre right members, and the right wing "true Conservatives". They basically loathe each other (look at Conservative Home comments), the true Conservatives calling the centre right guys "Wets" and wanting them to defect to the Lib Dems, and the Wets fearful that the extreme right wing views of the true Conservatives make them a better fit with Reform. The six leadership candidates are each trying to continue the "fudge it" approach of patch and mend, Cameron's original strategy, but this was blown away by his Brexit miscaluation resulting in 8 years of very public Tory infighting which they got away with because Labour was led by the unelectable Corbyn. History suggests that split parties don't win elections, and although extreme policies attract certain voters, you win elections from the centre. Add to this the 2024 perfect storm of a Lib Dem revival, and UKIPs reincarnation as Reform. The Tories appear well and truly fucked as not one of the pitiful six has the charisma of a lettuce let alone a leader." Fully agreed! 
That's why I believe that whoever wins now will only be temporary. | |||
"Amidst all the chaos going around, the Tories are getting ready to find a new leader. The contestants are: Robert Jenrick Tom Tungendhat James Cleverly Mel Stride Priti Patel Kemi Badenoch Odds seem to favour Kemi. I also believe that she is probably the best option of all. Still I feel like the Tories have a long road ahead before becoming a serious contender again and whoever takes over now will only be a temporary caretaker before a real leader shows up. Your thoughts? Why do you find Kemi scary? " She says that she doesn't think the Tories are right wing enough for a start and actually said they are far too Liberal... that's pretty scary. | |||
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"Amidst all the chaos going around, the Tories are getting ready to find a new leader. The contestants are: Robert Jenrick Tom Tungendhat James Cleverly Mel Stride Priti Patel Kemi Badenoch Odds seem to favour Kemi. I also believe that she is probably the best option of all. Still I feel like the Tories have a long road ahead before becoming a serious contender again and whoever takes over now will only be a temporary caretaker before a real leader shows up. Your thoughts?" Not great is it. I do agree it will be a caretaker role to maybe just steady the ship and lay the foundation's to rebuild. Labour are in for a couple of terms at least I would have thought, so maybe at some point a new talent will emerge. | |||
"Amidst all the chaos going around, the Tories are getting ready to find a new leader. The contestants are: Robert Jenrick Tom Tungendhat James Cleverly Mel Stride Priti Patel Kemi Badenoch Odds seem to favour Kemi. I also believe that she is probably the best option of all. Still I feel like the Tories have a long road ahead before becoming a serious contender again and whoever takes over now will only be a temporary caretaker before a real leader shows up. Your thoughts? Not great is it. I do agree it will be a caretaker role to maybe just steady the ship and lay the foundation's to rebuild. Labour are in for a couple of terms at least I would have thought, so maybe at some point a new talent will emerge." Unless Labour decides to self-destruct, Tories are in for a long time out of government. | |||
"As someone has already said, Tugendhat is the only one with any chance of winning back the centre right voters the Tories need to win an election. He’s also has no chance of winning over the assorted nut jobs and racists who make up the Tory membership. By pandering to the hard right the Tories have made themselves unelectable, you’d need to have a heart of stone not to laugh." Tories lost not because they pandered to right wingers but because they failed in everything they promised to do. | |||
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"They need a right wing leader to pull back the votes they lost to reform, if they hook into that now and replace in 2 years after a dismantling of Farage and reform, they can push Tugendhat forward fro the GE, settling the centre. This appointment will be a strategic affair, if they put Tugendhat into position now, they will not have the barking dog at question time…" The problem is that the members decide the leader, not the MPs. The right of the party would need to be convinced a centrist leader is in their interests so the membership is presented with a choice of two centrists, and as we have seen the right of the party is not inclined to do that. | |||
" By pandering to the hard right the Tories have made themselves unelectable, you’d need to have a heart of stone not to laugh. Tories lost not because they pandered to right wingers but because they failed in everything they promised to do." Yes they failed at everything, but my recollection is that they pursued crackpot nonsensical policies which came from the right wing nutters. Brexit, Rwanda, Prorogation, ID for voting, Lansley's NHS reforms are all policies which failed to achieve their objectives, some backfiring spectacularly on the cunts.  | |||
"They need a right wing leader to pull back the votes they lost to reform, if they hook into that now and replace in 2 years after a dismantling of Farage and reform, they can push Tugendhat forward fro the GE, settling the centre. This appointment will be a strategic affair, if they put Tugendhat into position now, they will not have the barking dog at question time…" How far right do they need to go to win back those who defected to Reform? Then if they try to move to anything more sensible those voters will just leave them again. | |||
"They need a right wing leader to pull back the votes they lost to reform, if they hook into that now and replace in 2 years after a dismantling of Farage and reform, they can push Tugendhat forward fro the GE, settling the centre. This appointment will be a strategic affair, if they put Tugendhat into position now, they will not have the barking dog at question time…" The only way to win with the British electorate is to not go too far either way, embracing the far right (reform) in an attempt to woo Farage will not work with the numbers needed to gain a majority.. The centrists will just stay away, not bother voting or move towards the liberals.. The post Brexit years with it's divisions and toxic infighting that led to threats of deselection for some very capable experienced Tory MPs as the cult of Boris and that latest cart to hitch up himself to override any ideas of pragmatism in the party and the chaos that followed him will be writ large in their psyche as a 'don't allow that to ever happen again'.. | |||
"They need a right wing leader to pull back the votes they lost to reform, if they hook into that now and replace in 2 years after a dismantling of Farage and reform, they can push Tugendhat forward fro the GE, settling the centre. This appointment will be a strategic affair, if they put Tugendhat into position now, they will not have the barking dog at question time…" Makes sense. In the long term, they need someone who is less talk and more action. It would be refreshing to see someone who actually sets out clear plan instead of just repeating catchy slogans like "stop the boats", "smash the gangs" and tweeting about woke policing. | |||
"They need a right wing leader to pull back the votes they lost to reform, if they hook into that now and replace in 2 years after a dismantling of Farage and reform, they can push Tugendhat forward fro the GE, settling the centre. This appointment will be a strategic affair, if they put Tugendhat into position now, they will not have the barking dog at question time… The problem is that the members decide the leader, not the MPs. The right of the party would need to be convinced a centrist leader is in their interests so the membership is presented with a choice of two centrists, and as we have seen the right of the party is not inclined to do that." CCHQ and the Chair will influence the candidates if needed, it is not uncommon for individuals to pull out and endorse another, all for the good of the party, they will be told
I think Kemi Badenoch is a good choice, she ticks the box as right wing and snappy, the speech she delivered to Rayner was fierce. She wouldn't tick the centre box when it came to a GE.
Priti Patel, certainly hits the right notes for the right but, comes with a lot of baggage that will possibly be something that will hinder her, again would not be a natural fit for the leadership at the next GE.
Cleverly, is a straight no as is Jenrik and I'm not sure why Mel Stride is there.
There is no way the conservatives can go into the next GE with a right wing leader, they will get demolished again, they need slightly right of centre. | |||
"They need a right wing leader to pull back the votes they lost to reform, if they hook into that now and replace in 2 years after a dismantling of Farage and reform, they can push Tugendhat forward fro the GE, settling the centre. This appointment will be a strategic affair, if they put Tugendhat into position now, they will not have the barking dog at question time… Makes sense. In the long term, they need someone who is less talk and more action. It would be refreshing to see someone who actually sets out clear plan instead of just repeating catchy slogans like "stop the boats", "smash the gangs" and tweeting about woke policing." It is a difficult time to lead the party, the need to pull back the reform voters is probably the number 1 priority. They also need labour to either not deliver or deliver badly before they can start to make the move into the centre ground with focus, jumping in there now would not be a good look, the only message available would be "we got it wring and we are listening". If Labour do not deliver on GB energy, the house building plans and they introduce tax hikes the tories will stand a chance a the GE. If Labour deliver on the above there will be nothing to change. | |||
"They need a right wing leader to pull back the votes they lost to reform, if they hook into that now and replace in 2 years after a dismantling of Farage and reform, they can push Tugendhat forward fro the GE, settling the centre. This appointment will be a strategic affair, if they put Tugendhat into position now, they will not have the barking dog at question time… The problem is that the members decide the leader, not the MPs. The right of the party would need to be convinced a centrist leader is in their interests so the membership is presented with a choice of two centrists, and as we have seen the right of the party is not inclined to do that. CCHQ and the Chair will influence the candidates if needed, it is not uncommon for individuals to pull out and endorse another, all for the good of the party, they will be told
I think Kemi Badenoch is a good choice, she ticks the box as right wing and snappy, the speech she delivered to Rayner was fierce. She wouldn't tick the centre box when it came to a GE.
Priti Patel, certainly hits the right notes for the right but, comes with a lot of baggage that will possibly be something that will hinder her, again would not be a natural fit for the leadership at the next GE.
Cleverly, is a straight no as is Jenrik and I'm not sure why Mel Stride is there.
There is no way the conservatives can go into the next GE with a right wing leader, they will get demolished again, they need slightly right of centre."CCHQ, the 1922 committee etc. used to hold the power in the Tory party but the formation of groups like the ERG put pay to that. The smaller the parliamentary party the more influence groups like the ERG have. The hard right of the party know they have the backing of the members, and they have the numbers to make sure one of them is on the members ballot. It may take more than a couple of GE defeats before the members are either dead or sufficiently sick of opposition to hold their noses and begin on the path back to electability. | |||
"They need a right wing leader to pull back the votes they lost to reform, if they hook into that now and replace in 2 years after a dismantling of Farage and reform, they can push Tugendhat forward fro the GE, settling the centre. This appointment will be a strategic affair, if they put Tugendhat into position now, they will not have the barking dog at question time… How far right do they need to go to win back those who defected to Reform? Then if they try to move to anything more sensible those voters will just leave them again." Not to far, most tory voters who voted reform did it because they wanted to vote for something other than tory. Of course you will have hard right wing voters who have been waiting for a party to vote for like reform and have left, they wont be lured back and will stay out. | |||
"They need a right wing leader to pull back the votes they lost to reform, if they hook into that now and replace in 2 years after a dismantling of Farage and reform, they can push Tugendhat forward fro the GE, settling the centre. This appointment will be a strategic affair, if they put Tugendhat into position now, they will not have the barking dog at question time… The problem is that the members decide the leader, not the MPs. The right of the party would need to be convinced a centrist leader is in their interests so the membership is presented with a choice of two centrists, and as we have seen the right of the party is not inclined to do that. CCHQ and the Chair will influence the candidates if needed, it is not uncommon for individuals to pull out and endorse another, all for the good of the party, they will be told
I think Kemi Badenoch is a good choice, she ticks the box as right wing and snappy, the speech she delivered to Rayner was fierce. She wouldn't tick the centre box when it came to a GE.
Priti Patel, certainly hits the right notes for the right but, comes with a lot of baggage that will possibly be something that will hinder her, again would not be a natural fit for the leadership at the next GE.
Cleverly, is a straight no as is Jenrik and I'm not sure why Mel Stride is there.
There is no way the conservatives can go into the next GE with a right wing leader, they will get demolished again, they need slightly right of centre.
CCHQ, the 1922 committee etc. used to hold the power in the Tory party but the formation of groups like the ERG put pay to that. The smaller the parliamentary party the more influence groups like the ERG have. The hard right of the party know they have the backing of the members, and they have the numbers to make sure one of them is on the members ballot. It may take more than a couple of GE defeats before the members are either dead or sufficiently sick of opposition to hold their noses and begin on the path back to electability."the "pressure groups" will be lacking in influence right now, they will be trying of course but these groups were part of the problem the tory party had behind the scenes. Braverman, Truss and Patel were instrumental in making such groups a weapon for changes to policy. The popular conservative group (PopCon) being one of the last to be formed and it imploded quickly. | |||
"They need a right wing leader to pull back the votes they lost to reform, if they hook into that now and replace in 2 years after a dismantling of Farage and reform, they can push Tugendhat forward fro the GE, settling the centre. This appointment will be a strategic affair, if they put Tugendhat into position now, they will not have the barking dog at question time… The problem is that the members decide the leader, not the MPs. The right of the party would need to be convinced a centrist leader is in their interests so the membership is presented with a choice of two centrists, and as we have seen the right of the party is not inclined to do that. CCHQ and the Chair will influence the candidates if needed, it is not uncommon for individuals to pull out and endorse another, all for the good of the party, they will be told
I think Kemi Badenoch is a good choice, she ticks the box as right wing and snappy, the speech she delivered to Rayner was fierce. She wouldn't tick the centre box when it came to a GE.
Priti Patel, certainly hits the right notes for the right but, comes with a lot of baggage that will possibly be something that will hinder her, again would not be a natural fit for the leadership at the next GE.
Cleverly, is a straight no as is Jenrik and I'm not sure why Mel Stride is there.
There is no way the conservatives can go into the next GE with a right wing leader, they will get demolished again, they need slightly right of centre.
CCHQ, the 1922 committee etc. used to hold the power in the Tory party but the formation of groups like the ERG put pay to that. The smaller the parliamentary party the more influence groups like the ERG have. The hard right of the party know they have the backing of the members, and they have the numbers to make sure one of them is on the members ballot. It may take more than a couple of GE defeats before the members are either dead or sufficiently sick of opposition to hold their noses and begin on the path back to electability.
the "pressure groups" will be lacking in influence right now, they will be trying of course but these groups were part of the problem the tory party had behind the scenes.
Braverman, Truss and Patel were instrumental in making such groups a weapon for changes to policy. The popular conservative group (PopCon) being one of the last to be formed and it imploded quickly."They were part of the problem but they don’t think that, they think it was because the Tories weren’t right wing enough. 4 of the 6 candidates for leadership are from the hard right of the party, they have enough backing to always have one of their number on the members ballot, and the members will always vote for them. | |||
"They need a right wing leader to pull back the votes they lost to reform, if they hook into that now and replace in 2 years after a dismantling of Farage and reform, they can push Tugendhat forward fro the GE, settling the centre. This appointment will be a strategic affair, if they put Tugendhat into position now, they will not have the barking dog at question time… The problem is that the members decide the leader, not the MPs. The right of the party would need to be convinced a centrist leader is in their interests so the membership is presented with a choice of two centrists, and as we have seen the right of the party is not inclined to do that. CCHQ and the Chair will influence the candidates if needed, it is not uncommon for individuals to pull out and endorse another, all for the good of the party, they will be told
I think Kemi Badenoch is a good choice, she ticks the box as right wing and snappy, the speech she delivered to Rayner was fierce. She wouldn't tick the centre box when it came to a GE.
Priti Patel, certainly hits the right notes for the right but, comes with a lot of baggage that will possibly be something that will hinder her, again would not be a natural fit for the leadership at the next GE.
Cleverly, is a straight no as is Jenrik and I'm not sure why Mel Stride is there.
There is no way the conservatives can go into the next GE with a right wing leader, they will get demolished again, they need slightly right of centre.
CCHQ, the 1922 committee etc. used to hold the power in the Tory party but the formation of groups like the ERG put pay to that. The smaller the parliamentary party the more influence groups like the ERG have. The hard right of the party know they have the backing of the members, and they have the numbers to make sure one of them is on the members ballot. It may take more than a couple of GE defeats before the members are either dead or sufficiently sick of opposition to hold their noses and begin on the path back to electability.
the "pressure groups" will be lacking in influence right now, they will be trying of course but these groups were part of the problem the tory party had behind the scenes.
Braverman, Truss and Patel were instrumental in making such groups a weapon for changes to policy. The popular conservative group (PopCon) being one of the last to be formed and it imploded quickly.
They were part of the problem but they don’t think that, they think it was because the Tories weren’t right wing enough. 4 of the 6 candidates for leadership are from the hard right of the party, they have enough backing to always have one of their number on the members ballot, and the members will always vote for them."I expect them to now, but as I mentioned I do not expect that person, probably Kemi to be the leader at the next GE. There will be a change towards the centre or they will be going 2 terms out | |||
"They need a right wing leader to pull back the votes they lost to reform, if they hook into that now and replace in 2 years after a dismantling of Farage and reform, they can push Tugendhat forward fro the GE, settling the centre. This appointment will be a strategic affair, if they put Tugendhat into position now, they will not have the barking dog at question time… The problem is that the members decide the leader, not the MPs. The right of the party would need to be convinced a centrist leader is in their interests so the membership is presented with a choice of two centrists, and as we have seen the right of the party is not inclined to do that. CCHQ and the Chair will influence the candidates if needed, it is not uncommon for individuals to pull out and endorse another, all for the good of the party, they will be told
I think Kemi Badenoch is a good choice, she ticks the box as right wing and snappy, the speech she delivered to Rayner was fierce. She wouldn't tick the centre box when it came to a GE.
Priti Patel, certainly hits the right notes for the right but, comes with a lot of baggage that will possibly be something that will hinder her, again would not be a natural fit for the leadership at the next GE.
Cleverly, is a straight no as is Jenrik and I'm not sure why Mel Stride is there.
There is no way the conservatives can go into the next GE with a right wing leader, they will get demolished again, they need slightly right of centre.
CCHQ, the 1922 committee etc. used to hold the power in the Tory party but the formation of groups like the ERG put pay to that. The smaller the parliamentary party the more influence groups like the ERG have. The hard right of the party know they have the backing of the members, and they have the numbers to make sure one of them is on the members ballot. It may take more than a couple of GE defeats before the members are either dead or sufficiently sick of opposition to hold their noses and begin on the path back to electability.
the "pressure groups" will be lacking in influence right now, they will be trying of course but these groups were part of the problem the tory party had behind the scenes.
Braverman, Truss and Patel were instrumental in making such groups a weapon for changes to policy. The popular conservative group (PopCon) being one of the last to be formed and it imploded quickly.
They were part of the problem but they don’t think that, they think it was because the Tories weren’t right wing enough. 4 of the 6 candidates for leadership are from the hard right of the party, they have enough backing to always have one of their number on the members ballot, and the members will always vote for them.
I expect them to now, but as I mentioned I do not expect that person, probably Kemi to be the leader at the next GE. There will be a change towards the centre or they will be going 2 terms out"I think we largely agree, only I think/hope it will take longer than one electoral cycle. | |||
"They need a right wing leader to pull back the votes they lost to reform, if they hook into that now and replace in 2 years after a dismantling of Farage and reform, they can push Tugendhat forward fro the GE, settling the centre. This appointment will be a strategic affair, if they put Tugendhat into position now, they will not have the barking dog at question time… The problem is that the members decide the leader, not the MPs. The right of the party would need to be convinced a centrist leader is in their interests so the membership is presented with a choice of two centrists, and as we have seen the right of the party is not inclined to do that. CCHQ and the Chair will influence the candidates if needed, it is not uncommon for individuals to pull out and endorse another, all for the good of the party, they will be told
I think Kemi Badenoch is a good choice, she ticks the box as right wing and snappy, the speech she delivered to Rayner was fierce. She wouldn't tick the centre box when it came to a GE.
Priti Patel, certainly hits the right notes for the right but, comes with a lot of baggage that will possibly be something that will hinder her, again would not be a natural fit for the leadership at the next GE.
Cleverly, is a straight no as is Jenrik and I'm not sure why Mel Stride is there.
There is no way the conservatives can go into the next GE with a right wing leader, they will get demolished again, they need slightly right of centre.
CCHQ, the 1922 committee etc. used to hold the power in the Tory party but the formation of groups like the ERG put pay to that. The smaller the parliamentary party the more influence groups like the ERG have. The hard right of the party know they have the backing of the members, and they have the numbers to make sure one of them is on the members ballot. It may take more than a couple of GE defeats before the members are either dead or sufficiently sick of opposition to hold their noses and begin on the path back to electability.
the "pressure groups" will be lacking in influence right now, they will be trying of course but these groups were part of the problem the tory party had behind the scenes.
Braverman, Truss and Patel were instrumental in making such groups a weapon for changes to policy. The popular conservative group (PopCon) being one of the last to be formed and it imploded quickly.
They were part of the problem but they don’t think that, they think it was because the Tories weren’t right wing enough. 4 of the 6 candidates for leadership are from the hard right of the party, they have enough backing to always have one of their number on the members ballot, and the members will always vote for them.
I expect them to now, but as I mentioned I do not expect that person, probably Kemi to be the leader at the next GE. There will be a change towards the centre or they will be going 2 terms out
I think we largely agree, only I think/hope it will take longer than one electoral cycle."The ball is in labours court, what they do with GB energy, house building and taxes will determine their fate, if they are succeeding there will be no need to change. | |||
"They need a right wing leader to pull back the votes they lost to reform, if they hook into that now and replace in 2 years after a dismantling of Farage and reform, they can push Tugendhat forward fro the GE, settling the centre. This appointment will be a strategic affair, if they put Tugendhat into position now, they will not have the barking dog at question time… The problem is that the members decide the leader, not the MPs. The right of the party would need to be convinced a centrist leader is in their interests so the membership is presented with a choice of two centrists, and as we have seen the right of the party is not inclined to do that. CCHQ and the Chair will influence the candidates if needed, it is not uncommon for individuals to pull out and endorse another, all for the good of the party, they will be told
I think Kemi Badenoch is a good choice, she ticks the box as right wing and snappy, the speech she delivered to Rayner was fierce. She wouldn't tick the centre box when it came to a GE.
Priti Patel, certainly hits the right notes for the right but, comes with a lot of baggage that will possibly be something that will hinder her, again would not be a natural fit for the leadership at the next GE.
Cleverly, is a straight no as is Jenrik and I'm not sure why Mel Stride is there.
There is no way the conservatives can go into the next GE with a right wing leader, they will get demolished again, they need slightly right of centre.
CCHQ, the 1922 committee etc. used to hold the power in the Tory party but the formation of groups like the ERG put pay to that. The smaller the parliamentary party the more influence groups like the ERG have. The hard right of the party know they have the backing of the members, and they have the numbers to make sure one of them is on the members ballot. It may take more than a couple of GE defeats before the members are either dead or sufficiently sick of opposition to hold their noses and begin on the path back to electability.
the "pressure groups" will be lacking in influence right now, they will be trying of course but these groups were part of the problem the tory party had behind the scenes.
Braverman, Truss and Patel were instrumental in making such groups a weapon for changes to policy. The popular conservative group (PopCon) being one of the last to be formed and it imploded quickly.
They were part of the problem but they don’t think that, they think it was because the Tories weren’t right wing enough. 4 of the 6 candidates for leadership are from the hard right of the party, they have enough backing to always have one of their number on the members ballot, and the members will always vote for them.
I expect them to now, but as I mentioned I do not expect that person, probably Kemi to be the leader at the next GE. There will be a change towards the centre or they will be going 2 terms out
I think we largely agree, only I think/hope it will take longer than one electoral cycle.
The ball is in labours court, what they do with GB energy, house building and taxes will determine their fate, if they are succeeding there will be no need to change. "I think it’s far wider than that, it won’t come down to three specific things. It’s as much a vibes thing as anythIng. If people feel like tings are better they will vote Labour again, and that goes much wider than those three things. Feelings trump facts every time. Look at the US, according to the numbers the economy is doing way better under Biden than it was under Trump but for some reason a lot of people aren’t feeling it. | |||
"They need a right wing leader to pull back the votes they lost to reform, if they hook into that now and replace in 2 years after a dismantling of Farage and reform, they can push Tugendhat forward fro the GE, settling the centre. This appointment will be a strategic affair, if they put Tugendhat into position now, they will not have the barking dog at question time… The problem is that the members decide the leader, not the MPs. The right of the party would need to be convinced a centrist leader is in their interests so the membership is presented with a choice of two centrists, and as we have seen the right of the party is not inclined to do that. CCHQ and the Chair will influence the candidates if needed, it is not uncommon for individuals to pull out and endorse another, all for the good of the party, they will be told
I think Kemi Badenoch is a good choice, she ticks the box as right wing and snappy, the speech she delivered to Rayner was fierce. She wouldn't tick the centre box when it came to a GE.
Priti Patel, certainly hits the right notes for the right but, comes with a lot of baggage that will possibly be something that will hinder her, again would not be a natural fit for the leadership at the next GE.
Cleverly, is a straight no as is Jenrik and I'm not sure why Mel Stride is there.
There is no way the conservatives can go into the next GE with a right wing leader, they will get demolished again, they need slightly right of centre.
CCHQ, the 1922 committee etc. used to hold the power in the Tory party but the formation of groups like the ERG put pay to that. The smaller the parliamentary party the more influence groups like the ERG have. The hard right of the party know they have the backing of the members, and they have the numbers to make sure one of them is on the members ballot. It may take more than a couple of GE defeats before the members are either dead or sufficiently sick of opposition to hold their noses and begin on the path back to electability.
the "pressure groups" will be lacking in influence right now, they will be trying of course but these groups were part of the problem the tory party had behind the scenes.
Braverman, Truss and Patel were instrumental in making such groups a weapon for changes to policy. The popular conservative group (PopCon) being one of the last to be formed and it imploded quickly.
They were part of the problem but they don’t think that, they think it was because the Tories weren’t right wing enough. 4 of the 6 candidates for leadership are from the hard right of the party, they have enough backing to always have one of their number on the members ballot, and the members will always vote for them.
I expect them to now, but as I mentioned I do not expect that person, probably Kemi to be the leader at the next GE. There will be a change towards the centre or they will be going 2 terms out
I think we largely agree, only I think/hope it will take longer than one electoral cycle.
The ball is in labours court, what they do with GB energy, house building and taxes will determine their fate, if they are succeeding there will be no need to change.
I think it’s far wider than that, it won’t come down to three specific things. It’s as much a vibes thing as anythIng. If people feel like tings are better they will vote Labour again, and that goes much wider than those three things.
Feelings trump facts every time. Look at the US, according to the numbers the economy is doing way better under Biden than it was under Trump but for some reason a lot of people aren’t feeling it."The people who will chip away at their leadership will be using these big pledges to prove how they can’t deliver on promises and have spent a fortune to provide nothing, it will start the rot. However if they succeed in getting these off the ground, the boot will be on the other foot and labour will be parading success, more jobs, cheaper energy, no tax hikes and things are looking great. I know it shouldn’t come down to 1 or 2 things, but it tends to be the catalyst that starts the collapse once the vultures circle. | |||
"They need a right wing leader to pull back the votes they lost to reform, if they hook into that now and replace in 2 years after a dismantling of Farage and reform, they can push Tugendhat forward fro the GE, settling the centre. This appointment will be a strategic affair, if they put Tugendhat into position now, they will not have the barking dog at question time… The problem is that the members decide the leader, not the MPs. The right of the party would need to be convinced a centrist leader is in their interests so the membership is presented with a choice of two centrists, and as we have seen the right of the party is not inclined to do that. CCHQ and the Chair will influence the candidates if needed, it is not uncommon for individuals to pull out and endorse another, all for the good of the party, they will be told
I think Kemi Badenoch is a good choice, she ticks the box as right wing and snappy, the speech she delivered to Rayner was fierce. She wouldn't tick the centre box when it came to a GE.
Priti Patel, certainly hits the right notes for the right but, comes with a lot of baggage that will possibly be something that will hinder her, again would not be a natural fit for the leadership at the next GE.
Cleverly, is a straight no as is Jenrik and I'm not sure why Mel Stride is there.
There is no way the conservatives can go into the next GE with a right wing leader, they will get demolished again, they need slightly right of centre.
CCHQ, the 1922 committee etc. used to hold the power in the Tory party but the formation of groups like the ERG put pay to that. The smaller the parliamentary party the more influence groups like the ERG have. The hard right of the party know they have the backing of the members, and they have the numbers to make sure one of them is on the members ballot. It may take more than a couple of GE defeats before the members are either dead or sufficiently sick of opposition to hold their noses and begin on the path back to electability.
the "pressure groups" will be lacking in influence right now, they will be trying of course but these groups were part of the problem the tory party had behind the scenes.
Braverman, Truss and Patel were instrumental in making such groups a weapon for changes to policy. The popular conservative group (PopCon) being one of the last to be formed and it imploded quickly.
They were part of the problem but they don’t think that, they think it was because the Tories weren’t right wing enough. 4 of the 6 candidates for leadership are from the hard right of the party, they have enough backing to always have one of their number on the members ballot, and the members will always vote for them.
I expect them to now, but as I mentioned I do not expect that person, probably Kemi to be the leader at the next GE. There will be a change towards the centre or they will be going 2 terms out
I think we largely agree, only I think/hope it will take longer than one electoral cycle.
The ball is in labours court, what they do with GB energy, house building and taxes will determine their fate, if they are succeeding there will be no need to change.
I think it’s far wider than that, it won’t come down to three specific things. It’s as much a vibes thing as anythIng. If people feel like tings are better they will vote Labour again, and that goes much wider than those three things.
Feelings trump facts every time. Look at the US, according to the numbers the economy is doing way better under Biden than it was under Trump but for some reason a lot of people aren’t feeling it.
The people who will chip away at their leadership will be using these big pledges to prove how they can’t deliver on promises and have spent a fortune to provide nothing, it will start the rot.
However if they succeed in getting these off the ground, the boot will be on the other foot and labour will be parading success, more jobs, cheaper energy, no tax hikes and things are looking great.
I know it shouldn’t come down to 1 or 2 things, but it tends to be the catalyst that starts the collapse once the vultures circle. "‘The people’ won’t give a toss if it feels like things are better, fortunately we aren’t yet a country that is as divided along ideological lines as the US. The vast majority don’t give a shit about politics outside of general elections. | |||
| |||
"Back to the Tory Leadership Contest, is it a given that the Tory party will survive? Only 121 MPs, party membership a bit above 100,000 with c.20% of those expected to be dead before 2029. Dire finances with donors running to the hills. Farage, who is very good at what he does, has vowed to destroy them. Tories tend to be Alphas whether male or female and not used to compromising, let alone being out of power. Can all these issues really be addressed by an interim compromise leader suggested by posters on her? I doubt it. It's intriguing as to whether they will actually survive..." I sort of want them to because if they don't then some of the alternatives are a worrying issue. They'll probably go through what labour had to do before Blair. A strong opposition is essential .. | |||
"Back to the Tory Leadership Contest, is it a given that the Tory party will survive? Only 121 MPs, party membership a bit above 100,000 with c.20% of those expected to be dead before 2029. Dire finances with donors running to the hills. Farage, who is very good at what he does, has vowed to destroy them. Tories tend to be Alphas whether male or female and not used to compromising, let alone being out of power. Can all these issues really be addressed by an interim compromise leader suggested by posters on her? I doubt it. It's intriguing as to whether they will actually survive..." There is no reason for them not to be still around. They have to turn the party around and the money will follow, it always will if it can influence policy. Farage, shouldn't be to much trouble if the tory party offers conservatives something to get behind. | |||
"They need a right wing leader to pull back the votes they lost to reform, if they hook into that now and replace in 2 years after a dismantling of Farage and reform, they can push Tugendhat forward fro the GE, settling the centre. This appointment will be a strategic affair, if they put Tugendhat into position now, they will not have the barking dog at question time…" But we have a centrist(ist) governement.... The people haste rejected right wing politics so why do they need to go there? I realise Reform got 4 miliion votes but it is Labour they have to take votes from. If they move to the centre before an election the Right wingers will still vote Reform surely. | |||
"They need a right wing leader to pull back the votes they lost to reform, if they hook into that now and replace in 2 years after a dismantling of Farage and reform, they can push Tugendhat forward fro the GE, settling the centre. This appointment will be a strategic affair, if they put Tugendhat into position now, they will not have the barking dog at question time… The problem is that the members decide the leader, not the MPs. The right of the party would need to be convinced a centrist leader is in their interests so the membership is presented with a choice of two centrists, and as we have seen the right of the party is not inclined to do that. CCHQ and the Chair will influence the candidates if needed, it is not uncommon for individuals to pull out and endorse another, all for the good of the party, they will be told
I think Kemi Badenoch is a good choice, she ticks the box as right wing and snappy, the speech she delivered to Rayner was fierce. She wouldn't tick the centre box when it came to a GE.
Priti Patel, certainly hits the right notes for the right but, comes with a lot of baggage that will possibly be something that will hinder her, again would not be a natural fit for the leadership at the next GE.
Cleverly, is a straight no as is Jenrik and I'm not sure why Mel Stride is there.
There is no way the conservatives can go into the next GE with a right wing leader, they will get demolished again, they need slightly right of centre.
CCHQ, the 1922 committee etc. used to hold the power in the Tory party but the formation of groups like the ERG put pay to that. The smaller the parliamentary party the more influence groups like the ERG have. The hard right of the party know they have the backing of the members, and they have the numbers to make sure one of them is on the members ballot. It may take more than a couple of GE defeats before the members are either dead or sufficiently sick of opposition to hold their noses and begin on the path back to electability.
the "pressure groups" will be lacking in influence right now, they will be trying of course but these groups were part of the problem the tory party had behind the scenes.
Braverman, Truss and Patel were instrumental in making such groups a weapon for changes to policy. The popular conservative group (PopCon) being one of the last to be formed and it imploded quickly.
They were part of the problem but they don’t think that, they think it was because the Tories weren’t right wing enough. 4 of the 6 candidates for leadership are from the hard right of the party, they have enough backing to always have one of their number on the members ballot, and the members will always vote for them.
I expect them to now, but as I mentioned I do not expect that person, probably Kemi to be the leader at the next GE. There will be a change towards the centre or they will be going 2 terms out
I think we largely agree, only I think/hope it will take longer than one electoral cycle.
The ball is in labours court, what they do with GB energy, house building and taxes will determine their fate, if they are succeeding there will be no need to change.
I think it’s far wider than that, it won’t come down to three specific things. It’s as much a vibes thing as anythIng. If people feel like tings are better they will vote Labour again, and that goes much wider than those three things.
Feelings trump facts every time. Look at the US, according to the numbers the economy is doing way better under Biden than it was under Trump but for some reason a lot of people aren’t feeling it.
The people who will chip away at their leadership will be using these big pledges to prove how they can’t deliver on promises and have spent a fortune to provide nothing, it will start the rot.
However if they succeed in getting these off the ground, the boot will be on the other foot and labour will be parading success, more jobs, cheaper energy, no tax hikes and things are looking great.
I know it shouldn’t come down to 1 or 2 things, but it tends to be the catalyst that starts the collapse once the vultures circle. "I think you are right that there will be a few prominent topics that will be key to Labour's future. They probably can afford not to totally deliver on them all in the first term, as long as they can show decent progress. One of the Tories problems was constantly making promises on popular topics but failing to achieve anything. Getting the small boat crossings under some control ( or smashing the gangs as they claim) should also be on the list. | |||
"They need a right wing leader to pull back the votes they lost to reform, if they hook into that now and replace in 2 years after a dismantling of Farage and reform, they can push Tugendhat forward fro the GE, settling the centre. This appointment will be a strategic affair, if they put Tugendhat into position now, they will not have the barking dog at question time… But we have a centrist(ist) governement.... The people haste rejected right wing politics so why do they need to go there? I realise Reform got 4 miliion votes but it is Labour they have to take votes from. If they move to the centre before an election the Right wingers will still vote Reform surely. " There is some truth in what you say, there was a rejection of the more right wing polices but I think it was out right rejection for a party that had failed miserably over the last 6 - 8 years. The low turn out at GE was mainly due to traditional conservatives staying at home. Those extra votes for Reform were conservative voters putting x in a box in the hope of keeping an mp in their area that would not be labour. We tend to vote conservatives into power and for longer than labour, but the last conservative party drifted away from centre right, and broke the trust in the party. They will be out in the wilderness for a while. | |||
"They need a right wing leader to pull back the votes they lost to reform, if they hook into that now and replace in 2 years after a dismantling of Farage and reform, they can push Tugendhat forward fro the GE, settling the centre. This appointment will be a strategic affair, if they put Tugendhat into position now, they will not have the barking dog at question time… The problem is that the members decide the leader, not the MPs. The right of the party would need to be convinced a centrist leader is in their interests so the membership is presented with a choice of two centrists, and as we have seen the right of the party is not inclined to do that. CCHQ and the Chair will influence the candidates if needed, it is not uncommon for individuals to pull out and endorse another, all for the good of the party, they will be told
I think Kemi Badenoch is a good choice, she ticks the box as right wing and snappy, the speech she delivered to Rayner was fierce. She wouldn't tick the centre box when it came to a GE.
Priti Patel, certainly hits the right notes for the right but, comes with a lot of baggage that will possibly be something that will hinder her, again would not be a natural fit for the leadership at the next GE.
Cleverly, is a straight no as is Jenrik and I'm not sure why Mel Stride is there.
There is no way the conservatives can go into the next GE with a right wing leader, they will get demolished again, they need slightly right of centre.
CCHQ, the 1922 committee etc. used to hold the power in the Tory party but the formation of groups like the ERG put pay to that. The smaller the parliamentary party the more influence groups like the ERG have. The hard right of the party know they have the backing of the members, and they have the numbers to make sure one of them is on the members ballot. It may take more than a couple of GE defeats before the members are either dead or sufficiently sick of opposition to hold their noses and begin on the path back to electability.
the "pressure groups" will be lacking in influence right now, they will be trying of course but these groups were part of the problem the tory party had behind the scenes.
Braverman, Truss and Patel were instrumental in making such groups a weapon for changes to policy. The popular conservative group (PopCon) being one of the last to be formed and it imploded quickly.
They were part of the problem but they don’t think that, they think it was because the Tories weren’t right wing enough. 4 of the 6 candidates for leadership are from the hard right of the party, they have enough backing to always have one of their number on the members ballot, and the members will always vote for them.
I expect them to now, but as I mentioned I do not expect that person, probably Kemi to be the leader at the next GE. There will be a change towards the centre or they will be going 2 terms out
I think we largely agree, only I think/hope it will take longer than one electoral cycle.
The ball is in labours court, what they do with GB energy, house building and taxes will determine their fate, if they are succeeding there will be no need to change.
I think it’s far wider than that, it won’t come down to three specific things. It’s as much a vibes thing as anythIng. If people feel like tings are better they will vote Labour again, and that goes much wider than those three things.
Feelings trump facts every time. Look at the US, according to the numbers the economy is doing way better under Biden than it was under Trump but for some reason a lot of people aren’t feeling it.
The people who will chip away at their leadership will be using these big pledges to prove how they can’t deliver on promises and have spent a fortune to provide nothing, it will start the rot.
However if they succeed in getting these off the ground, the boot will be on the other foot and labour will be parading success, more jobs, cheaper energy, no tax hikes and things are looking great.
I know it shouldn’t come down to 1 or 2 things, but it tends to be the catalyst that starts the collapse once the vultures circle.
I think you are right that there will be a few prominent topics that will be key to Labour's future. They probably can afford not to totally deliver on them all in the first term, as long as they can show decent progress. One of the Tories problems was constantly making promises on popular topics but failing to achieve anything. Getting the small boat crossings under some control ( or smashing the gangs as they claim) should also be on the list."The small boat crossings are a political hot potato! If labour get it right it will be a miracle | |||
" There is some truth in what you say, there was a rejection of the more right wing polices but I think it was out right rejection for a party that had failed miserably over the last 6 - 8 years. The low turn out at GE was mainly due to traditional conservatives staying at home. Those extra votes for Reform were conservative voters putting x in a box in the hope of keeping an mp in their area that would not be labour. We tend to vote conservatives into power and for longer than labour, but the last conservative party drifted away from centre right, and broke the trust in the party. They will be out in the wilderness for a while. " Reform's vote only increased by 1.7% over what UKIP achieved in 2015, when they came second in 120 seats, whereas they achieved second in only 98 seats in 2024. Reform went for vote share, which under FPTP is irrelevant, whereas the Lib Dems, who have long suffered under FPTP, went for the tactical vote and did well. If Farage and the Lib Dems both use tactical voting in 2029 then the Tories could be wiped out, if they haven't self-imploded before then. From an observer's view it seems the Tories are completely fucked, but as is often the case the patient is in self-denial. | |||
"They need a right wing leader to pull back the votes they lost to reform, if they hook into that now and replace in 2 years after a dismantling of Farage and reform, they can push Tugendhat forward fro the GE, settling the centre. This appointment will be a strategic affair, if they put Tugendhat into position now, they will not have the barking dog at question time… The problem is that the members decide the leader, not the MPs. The right of the party would need to be convinced a centrist leader is in their interests so the membership is presented with a choice of two centrists, and as we have seen the right of the party is not inclined to do that. CCHQ and the Chair will influence the candidates if needed, it is not uncommon for individuals to pull out and endorse another, all for the good of the party, they will be told
I think Kemi Badenoch is a good choice, she ticks the box as right wing and snappy, the speech she delivered to Rayner was fierce. She wouldn't tick the centre box when it came to a GE.
Priti Patel, certainly hits the right notes for the right but, comes with a lot of baggage that will possibly be something that will hinder her, again would not be a natural fit for the leadership at the next GE.
Cleverly, is a straight no as is Jenrik and I'm not sure why Mel Stride is there.
There is no way the conservatives can go into the next GE with a right wing leader, they will get demolished again, they need slightly right of centre.
CCHQ, the 1922 committee etc. used to hold the power in the Tory party but the formation of groups like the ERG put pay to that. The smaller the parliamentary party the more influence groups like the ERG have. The hard right of the party know they have the backing of the members, and they have the numbers to make sure one of them is on the members ballot. It may take more than a couple of GE defeats before the members are either dead or sufficiently sick of opposition to hold their noses and begin on the path back to electability.
the "pressure groups" will be lacking in influence right now, they will be trying of course but these groups were part of the problem the tory party had behind the scenes.
Braverman, Truss and Patel were instrumental in making such groups a weapon for changes to policy. The popular conservative group (PopCon) being one of the last to be formed and it imploded quickly.
They were part of the problem but they don’t think that, they think it was because the Tories weren’t right wing enough. 4 of the 6 candidates for leadership are from the hard right of the party, they have enough backing to always have one of their number on the members ballot, and the members will always vote for them.
I expect them to now, but as I mentioned I do not expect that person, probably Kemi to be the leader at the next GE. There will be a change towards the centre or they will be going 2 terms out
I think we largely agree, only I think/hope it will take longer than one electoral cycle.
The ball is in labours court, what they do with GB energy, house building and taxes will determine their fate, if they are succeeding there will be no need to change.
I think it’s far wider than that, it won’t come down to three specific things. It’s as much a vibes thing as anythIng. If people feel like tings are better they will vote Labour again, and that goes much wider than those three things.
Feelings trump facts every time. Look at the US, according to the numbers the economy is doing way better under Biden than it was under Trump but for some reason a lot of people aren’t feeling it.
The people who will chip away at their leadership will be using these big pledges to prove how they can’t deliver on promises and have spent a fortune to provide nothing, it will start the rot.
However if they succeed in getting these off the ground, the boot will be on the other foot and labour will be parading success, more jobs, cheaper energy, no tax hikes and things are looking great.
I know it shouldn’t come down to 1 or 2 things, but it tends to be the catalyst that starts the collapse once the vultures circle.
I think you are right that there will be a few prominent topics that will be key to Labour's future. They probably can afford not to totally deliver on them all in the first term, as long as they can show decent progress. One of the Tories problems was constantly making promises on popular topics but failing to achieve anything. Getting the small boat crossings under some control ( or smashing the gangs as they claim) should also be on the list.
The small boat crossings are a political hot potato! If labour get it right it will be a miracle "What does "get it right" look like in terms of the small boat crossings? | |||
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"They need a right wing leader to pull back the votes they lost to reform, if they hook into that now and replace in 2 years after a dismantling of Farage and reform, they can push Tugendhat forward fro the GE, settling the centre. This appointment will be a strategic affair, if they put Tugendhat into position now, they will not have the barking dog at question time… The problem is that the members decide the leader, not the MPs. The right of the party would need to be convinced a centrist leader is in their interests so the membership is presented with a choice of two centrists, and as we have seen the right of the party is not inclined to do that. CCHQ and the Chair will influence the candidates if needed, it is not uncommon for individuals to pull out and endorse another, all for the good of the party, they will be told
I think Kemi Badenoch is a good choice, she ticks the box as right wing and snappy, the speech she delivered to Rayner was fierce. She wouldn't tick the centre box when it came to a GE.
Priti Patel, certainly hits the right notes for the right but, comes with a lot of baggage that will possibly be something that will hinder her, again would not be a natural fit for the leadership at the next GE.
Cleverly, is a straight no as is Jenrik and I'm not sure why Mel Stride is there.
There is no way the conservatives can go into the next GE with a right wing leader, they will get demolished again, they need slightly right of centre.
CCHQ, the 1922 committee etc. used to hold the power in the Tory party but the formation of groups like the ERG put pay to that. The smaller the parliamentary party the more influence groups like the ERG have. The hard right of the party know they have the backing of the members, and they have the numbers to make sure one of them is on the members ballot. It may take more than a couple of GE defeats before the members are either dead or sufficiently sick of opposition to hold their noses and begin on the path back to electability.
the "pressure groups" will be lacking in influence right now, they will be trying of course but these groups were part of the problem the tory party had behind the scenes.
Braverman, Truss and Patel were instrumental in making such groups a weapon for changes to policy. The popular conservative group (PopCon) being one of the last to be formed and it imploded quickly.
They were part of the problem but they don’t think that, they think it was because the Tories weren’t right wing enough. 4 of the 6 candidates for leadership are from the hard right of the party, they have enough backing to always have one of their number on the members ballot, and the members will always vote for them.
I expect them to now, but as I mentioned I do not expect that person, probably Kemi to be the leader at the next GE. There will be a change towards the centre or they will be going 2 terms out
I think we largely agree, only I think/hope it will take longer than one electoral cycle.
The ball is in labours court, what they do with GB energy, house building and taxes will determine their fate, if they are succeeding there will be no need to change.
I think it’s far wider than that, it won’t come down to three specific things. It’s as much a vibes thing as anythIng. If people feel like tings are better they will vote Labour again, and that goes much wider than those three things.
Feelings trump facts every time. Look at the US, according to the numbers the economy is doing way better under Biden than it was under Trump but for some reason a lot of people aren’t feeling it.
The people who will chip away at their leadership will be using these big pledges to prove how they can’t deliver on promises and have spent a fortune to provide nothing, it will start the rot.
However if they succeed in getting these off the ground, the boot will be on the other foot and labour will be parading success, more jobs, cheaper energy, no tax hikes and things are looking great.
I know it shouldn’t come down to 1 or 2 things, but it tends to be the catalyst that starts the collapse once the vultures circle.
I think you are right that there will be a few prominent topics that will be key to Labour's future. They probably can afford not to totally deliver on them all in the first term, as long as they can show decent progress. One of the Tories problems was constantly making promises on popular topics but failing to achieve anything. Getting the small boat crossings under some control ( or smashing the gangs as they claim) should also be on the list.
The small boat crossings are a political hot potato! If labour get it right it will be a miracle
What does "get it right" look like in terms of the small boat crossings?
"For me it would be Labour fulfilling their promise to smash the gangs that prey on these people. This is their idea put forward during the GE. They have said they can do it and that it will work. If they achieve it then it's a big achievement. | |||
"Amidst all the chaos going around, the Tories are getting ready to find a new leader. The contestants are: Robert Jenrick Tom Tungendhat James Cleverly Mel Stride Priti Patel Kemi Badenoch Odds seem to favour Kemi. I also believe that she is probably the best option of all. Still I feel like the Tories have a long road ahead before becoming a serious contender again and whoever takes over now will only be a temporary caretaker before a real leader shows up. Your thoughts?" Ah. Badenoch. The Equalities minister who daid there's no such thing as institutional racism. And she's (obviously) black. A fine woman. | |||
" There is some truth in what you say, there was a rejection of the more right wing polices but I think it was out right rejection for a party that had failed miserably over the last 6 - 8 years. The low turn out at GE was mainly due to traditional conservatives staying at home. Those extra votes for Reform were conservative voters putting x in a box in the hope of keeping an mp in their area that would not be labour. We tend to vote conservatives into power and for longer than labour, but the last conservative party drifted away from centre right, and broke the trust in the party. They will be out in the wilderness for a while. Reform's vote only increased by 1.7% over what UKIP achieved in 2015, when they came second in 120 seats, whereas they achieved second in only 98 seats in 2024. Reform went for vote share, which under FPTP is irrelevant, whereas the Lib Dems, who have long suffered under FPTP, went for the tactical vote and did well. If Farage and the Lib Dems both use tactical voting in 2029 then the Tories could be wiped out, if they haven't self-imploded before then. From an observer's view it seems the Tories are completely fucked, but as is often the case the patient is in self-denial." I'm really not clear on what your point is here, it feels, if's but's and maybe's compared to a period that no longer has any relevance. There is no need for that when we can all see what has unfolded and draw conclusion from that. | |||
"There is no reason to put in a right wing leader to "bring back" voters from reform. The vote for reform was the right protesting against the status quo. In five years, the status quo will be Labour. So a vote against the status quo can instead be for the conservatives. Better to put in a reasonable centrist, as Labour did, to shortly chip away at SKS and call out the inevitable failures. Farage will probably skive and let down everyone who voted for him - best to let Reform collapse rather than pander to their fickle viewers at this point." I disagree, there needs to be a strong opposition that challenges and niggles, that will come from the right of the party. It wont last in that state, the party needs to be brought back to centre right to be taken seriously by voters. In that time I do expect labour to go further left and alienate themselves. The cycle begins again | |||
"There is no reason to put in a right wing leader to "bring back" voters from reform. The vote for reform was the right protesting against the status quo. In five years, the status quo will be Labour. So a vote against the status quo can instead be for the conservatives. Better to put in a reasonable centrist, as Labour did, to shortly chip away at SKS and call out the inevitable failures. Farage will probably skive and let down everyone who voted for him - best to let Reform collapse rather than pander to their fickle viewers at this point. I disagree, there needs to be a strong opposition that challenges and niggles, that will come from the right of the party. It wont last in that state, the party needs to be brought back to centre right to be taken seriously by voters. In that time I do expect labour to go further left and alienate themselves. The cycle begins again " Why do you think Labour will go left? | |||
" Why do you think Labour will go left?" Parties in power for any length of time eat themselves. The factions within jostle for power. The party already has issues with Starmer being "Tory lite" (the view has even been voiced by numerous people on this forum). He's no Blair. | |||
"There is no reason to put in a right wing leader to "bring back" voters from reform. The vote for reform was the right protesting against the status quo. In five years, the status quo will be Labour. So a vote against the status quo can instead be for the conservatives. Better to put in a reasonable centrist, as Labour did, to shortly chip away at SKS and call out the inevitable failures. Farage will probably skive and let down everyone who voted for him - best to let Reform collapse rather than pander to their fickle viewers at this point. I disagree, there needs to be a strong opposition that challenges and niggles, that will come from the right of the party. It wont last in that state, the party needs to be brought back to centre right to be taken seriously by voters. In that time I do expect labour to go further left and alienate themselves. The cycle begins again Why do you think Labour will go left?" I would say because at heart they are Socialists, but have temporarily modified some of their left wing dogma to attain power. Blair and New Labour did the same thing. But eventually, centrist Starmer will get deposed and a leftist leader will emerge with hard left policies. | |||
" Why do you think Labour will go left? Parties in power for any length of time eat themselves. The factions within jostle for power. The party already has issues with Starmer being "Tory lite" (the view has even been voiced by numerous people on this forum). He's no Blair." Without denigrating the esteemed denizens of this forum, what we think means fuck all. Personally I would love Labour to move left, the political Overton window has moved to the extent we have mainstream politicians using 1970s National Front language, ffs, but I think we need to caution ourselves that we are idiots on the internet who project our biases, rather than having any actual knowledge. | |||
"There is no reason to put in a right wing leader to "bring back" voters from reform. The vote for reform was the right protesting against the status quo. In five years, the status quo will be Labour. So a vote against the status quo can instead be for the conservatives. Better to put in a reasonable centrist, as Labour did, to shortly chip away at SKS and call out the inevitable failures. Farage will probably skive and let down everyone who voted for him - best to let Reform collapse rather than pander to their fickle viewers at this point. I disagree, there needs to be a strong opposition that challenges and niggles, that will come from the right of the party. It wont last in that state, the party needs to be brought back to centre right to be taken seriously by voters. In that time I do expect labour to go further left and alienate themselves. The cycle begins again Why do you think Labour will go left? I would say because at heart they are Socialists, but have temporarily modified some of their left wing dogma to attain power. Blair and New Labour did the same thing. But eventually, centrist Starmer will get deposed and a leftist leader will emerge with hard left policies. " Who do you think the new leader will be, and what hard left policies will they implement? | |||
"...but I think we need to caution ourselves that we are idiots on the internet who project our biases, rather than having any actual knowledge." Exactly. Like a microcosm of the general electorate. Some of us can even vote in the internal elections of either or both major parties... | |||
" I would say because at heart they are Socialists... " Not anymore. They're an alliance of progressive liberals, "red wall" and neo-socialists. Boris did so well by appealing to the red wall, putting them against the progressive liberals. " ...but have temporarily modified some of their left wing dogma to attain power." Some unions are more progressive liberal than socialist nowadays. " Blair and New Labour did the same thing. But eventually, centrist Starmer will get deposed and a leftist leader will emerge with hard left policies. " Very likely. | |||
"...but I think we need to caution ourselves that we are idiots on the internet who project our biases, rather than having any actual knowledge. Exactly. Like a microcosm of the general electorate. Some of us can even vote in the internal elections of either or both major parties..." I see what you are saying but that is making the assumption that the general electorate is anywhere near as interested in politics as the people who post about politics on a politics forum on a swingers website. They are not. | |||
"...but I think we need to caution ourselves that we are idiots on the internet who project our biases, rather than having any actual knowledge. Exactly. Like a microcosm of the general electorate. Some of us can even vote in the internal elections of either or both major parties... I see what you are saying but that is making the assumption that the general electorate is anywhere near as interested in politics as the people who post about politics on a politics forum on a swingers website. They are not." The people who vote political leaders in are at least mildly interested. | |||
" They're an alliance of progressive liberals" What is a progressive Liberal in your mind? In mine, they're 2 different things. | |||
" They're an alliance of progressive liberals What is a progressive Liberal in your mind? In mine, they're 2 different things. " https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressivism "In modern political discourse, progressivism often gets associated with social liberalism, a left-leaning type of liberalism." No, nothing to do with libertarianism  | |||
" They're an alliance of progressive liberals What is a progressive Liberal in your mind? In mine, they're 2 different things. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressivism "In modern political discourse, progressivism often gets associated with social liberalism, a left-leaning type of liberalism." No, nothing to do with libertarianism "Who said anything about libertarianism? What you've shown me is there's no such thing as Progressive Liberalism but Progressivism is associated with Social Liberalism. Associated doesn't mean they're the same thing. | |||
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"The problem with left wing ideologies is the amount of them, and they splinter into sub groups when 1 group decides to think slightly differently to the other. Left wing nationalism, progressives and marxism, all much of the same when you stand centre right but not so similar if you standing centre left I assume. I wonder how many here would hold their hands up to their support of Marxism, and how many would acknowledge their draw to and promotion of left wing populism, which is strong in this forum " "Left wing nationalism, progressives and marxism, all much of the same when you stand centre right". Do you think that's largely down to a lack of understanding of what "Marxism" is by those people the centre right? | |||
" What you've shown me is there's no such thing as Progressive Liberalism but Progressivism is associated with Social Liberalism. Associated doesn't mean they're the same thing. " Correct. They might be adjacent, intersect, etc. No issue there. They both exist in the Labour party and their proponents aren't necessarily aligned, or might be at odds, with socialism. | |||
" What you've shown me is there's no such thing as Progressive Liberalism but Progressivism is associated with Social Liberalism. Associated doesn't mean they're the same thing. Correct. They might be adjacent, intersect, etc. No issue there. They both exist in the Labour party and their proponents aren't necessarily aligned, or might be at odds, with socialism." So what is progressive liberalism? Are you actually saying that the labour party consists of both progressive and liberals? | |||
" What you've shown me is there's no such thing as Progressive Liberalism but Progressivism is associated with Social Liberalism. Associated doesn't mean they're the same thing. Correct. They might be adjacent, intersect, etc. No issue there. They both exist in the Labour party and their proponents aren't necessarily aligned, or might be at odds, with socialism. So what is progressive liberalism? Are you actually saying that the labour party consists of both progressive and liberals?" And socialists and a bunch of people who identify otherwise, yes. Lots of groups that blur and meld and separate and fight. | |||
" What you've shown me is there's no such thing as Progressive Liberalism but Progressivism is associated with Social Liberalism. Associated doesn't mean they're the same thing. Correct. They might be adjacent, intersect, etc. No issue there. They both exist in the Labour party and their proponents aren't necessarily aligned, or might be at odds, with socialism. So what is progressive liberalism? Are you actually saying that the labour party consists of both progressive and liberals? And socialists and a bunch of people who identify otherwise, yes. Lots of groups that blur and meld and separate and fight." | |||
"The problem with left wing ideologies is the amount of them, and they splinter into sub groups when 1 group decides to think slightly differently to the other. Left wing nationalism, progressives and marxism, all much of the same when you stand centre right but not so similar if you standing centre left I assume. I wonder how many here would hold their hands up to their support of Marxism, and how many would acknowledge their draw to and promotion of left wing populism, which is strong in this forum "Left wing nationalism, progressives and marxism, all much of the same when you stand centre right". Do you think that's largely down to a lack of understanding of what "Marxism" is by those people the centre right? " To be honest from my point of view it's tiresome, it highlights how fractious left wing politics is to have so many offshoots, it is very hard to keep so I tend not to. | |||
" What you've shown me is there's no such thing as Progressive Liberalism but Progressivism is associated with Social Liberalism. Associated doesn't mean they're the same thing. Correct. They might be adjacent, intersect, etc. No issue there. They both exist in the Labour party and their proponents aren't necessarily aligned, or might be at odds, with socialism. So what is progressive liberalism? Are you actually saying that the labour party consists of both progressive and liberals? And socialists and a bunch of people who identify otherwise, yes. Lots of groups that blur and meld and separate and fight." I suppose that's an answer in itself | |||
"The problem with left wing ideologies is the amount of them, and they splinter into sub groups when 1 group decides to think slightly differently to the other. Left wing nationalism, progressives and marxism, all much of the same when you stand centre right but not so similar if you standing centre left I assume. I wonder how many here would hold their hands up to their support of Marxism, and how many would acknowledge their draw to and promotion of left wing populism, which is strong in this forum "Left wing nationalism, progressives and marxism, all much of the same when you stand centre right". Do you think that's largely down to a lack of understanding of what "Marxism" is by those people the centre right? To be honest from my point of view it's tiresome, it highlights how fractious left wing politics is to have so many offshoots, it is very hard to keep so I tend not to. " Fair play. I don't find the factions on any side especially interesting. | |||
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"I would vote for James Cleverly, Priti Patel or maybe Robert Jenrick if they became Tory Leader" That’s a very low bar! | |||
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"the party will get no where untill they purge themselves off the fascists hiding within their numbers and return to some modicum of acceptable morals" Maybe 100k moderates should join... Could solve some issues. | |||
"Is there no one more altruistic available, Darth Vader, Genghis Khan, Vlad The Impaler, Atilla The Hun maybe?" They're all either fictional or dead so can't be included. | |||
"the party will get no where untill they purge themselves off the fascists hiding within their numbers and return to some modicum of acceptable morals Maybe 100k moderates should join... Could solve some issues." Potentially it would be really easy for left wing people to take over the Tory party, their membership has dropped to such a low level. | |||
"the party will get no where untill they purge themselves off the fascists hiding within their numbers and return to some modicum of acceptable morals Maybe 100k moderates should join... Could solve some issues. Potentially it would be really easy for left wing people to take over the Tory party, their membership has dropped to such a low level." why would left wing people consider joining the tory party? | |||
"the party will get no where untill they purge themselves off the fascists hiding within their numbers and return to some modicum of acceptable morals Maybe 100k moderates should join... Could solve some issues. Potentially it would be really easy for left wing people to take over the Tory party, their membership has dropped to such a low level. why would left wing people consider joining the tory party? " To fuck with them, of course. | |||
"As someone has already said, Tugendhat is the only one with any chance of winning back the centre right voters the Tories need to win an election. He’s also has no chance of winning over the assorted nut jobs and racists who make up the Tory membership. By pandering to the hard right the Tories have made themselves unelectable, you’d need to have a heart of stone not to laugh. Tories lost not because they pandered to right wingers but because they failed in everything they promised to do." True but the reason they failed in everything they promised to do was because the policies and methods they chose to pursue in order to try and deliver on their promises were skewed towards gratifying their right wing rather than being pragmatic policies that may have actually helped deliver on their promises. | |||
"As someone has already said, Tugendhat is the only one with any chance of winning back the centre right voters the Tories need to win an election. He’s also has no chance of winning over the assorted nut jobs and racists who make up the Tory membership. By pandering to the hard right the Tories have made themselves unelectable, you’d need to have a heart of stone not to laugh. Tories lost not because they pandered to right wingers but because they failed in everything they promised to do. True but the reason they failed in everything they promised to do was because the policies and methods they chose to pursue in order to try and deliver on their promises were skewed towards gratifying their right wing rather than being pragmatic policies that may have actually helped deliver on their promises." Let's see. Sunak promised to "Stop the boats" and Starmer promised to "Smash the gangs". Both with the ultimate goal of reducing illegal immigration. I don't think Starmer's solution is going to work either. | |||
"I would vote for James Cleverly, Priti Patel or maybe Robert Jenrick if they became Tory Leader That’s a very low bar! " None of them can't be worse then Keir Starmer but obviously we gonna agree to disagree on the matter | |||
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"I'm might not care at the moment about the Tory leadership but I rather have anyone but Keir Starmer as Prime Minister right now and mi nah care unno one say bout it" Because he once fumbled a question about gender? | |||
"As someone has already said, Tugendhat is the only one with any chance of winning back the centre right voters the Tories need to win an election. He’s also has no chance of winning over the assorted nut jobs and racists who make up the Tory membership. By pandering to the hard right the Tories have made themselves unelectable, you’d need to have a heart of stone not to laugh. Tories lost not because they pandered to right wingers but because they failed in everything they promised to do. True but the reason they failed in everything they promised to do was because the policies and methods they chose to pursue in order to try and deliver on their promises were skewed towards gratifying their right wing rather than being pragmatic policies that may have actually helped deliver on their promises. Let's see. Sunak promised to "Stop the boats" and Starmer promised to "Smash the gangs". Both with the ultimate goal of reducing illegal immigration. I don't think Starmer's solution is going to work either." Yeah but it's not just immigration (both legal &: illegal) that they totally fucked up. It's everything from from housing, school maintenance, Brexit, tax (trying to tell me they were giving me a tax cut when they were actually increasing them), law & order, health service etc. Labour would have to do a pretty shit job this time around to do worse. | |||
"As someone has already said, Tugendhat is the only one with any chance of winning back the centre right voters the Tories need to win an election. He’s also has no chance of winning over the assorted nut jobs and racists who make up the Tory membership. By pandering to the hard right the Tories have made themselves unelectable, you’d need to have a heart of stone not to laugh. Tories lost not because they pandered to right wingers but because they failed in everything they promised to do. True but the reason they failed in everything they promised to do was because the policies and methods they chose to pursue in order to try and deliver on their promises were skewed towards gratifying their right wing rather than being pragmatic policies that may have actually helped deliver on their promises. Let's see. Sunak promised to "Stop the boats" and Starmer promised to "Smash the gangs". Both with the ultimate goal of reducing illegal immigration. I don't think Starmer's solution is going to work either. Yeah but it's not just immigration (both legal &: illegal) that they totally fucked up. It's everything from from housing, school maintenance, Brexit, tax (trying to tell me they were giving me a tax cut when they were actually increasing them), law & order, health service etc. Labour would have to do a pretty shit job this time around to do worse." plus the culture of extreme corruption and law breaking | |||
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"I'm might not care at the moment about the Tory leadership but I rather have anyone but Keir Starmer as Prime Minister right now and mi nah care unno one say bout it Because he once fumbled a question about gender?" no not because of that only but nice try though | |||
"I'm might not care at the moment about the Tory leadership but I rather have anyone but Keir Starmer as Prime Minister right now and mi nah care unno one say bout it Because he once fumbled a question about gender? no not because of that only but nice try though" That's good. I'm glad we've all moved on from that nonsense. What's the latest beef with Starmer? | |||
