FabSwingers.com > Forums > Politics > JD Vance
JD Vance
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"I dunno but this thread should probably go to politics…….down there half a page scroll. " God I didn’t know there was a political thread.......technology it’s the future! | |||
"I dunno but this thread should probably go to politics…….down there half a page scroll. God I didn’t know there was a political thread.......technology it’s the future!" There’s one for motorbikes too. That’s even further down. Just in case you like motorbikes. | |||
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"Is he related to Bob?" Or the director of NCIS? | |||
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"A release valve to spew out whatever garbage even Trump will not say in public. Aka. American Dmitry Medvedev." Without a doubt | |||
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"He thinks UK is an Islamist country because labour won the election. He's obviously been drinking too much trump. Where does the republican party find these fuckwits. I'm still trying to get over how dumb George W Bush was. " There is logic to what Trump is doing. He has selected an even crazier, but younger version of himself for a VP. This provides continuity in case Trump dies or is otherwise incapacitated. Democrats have no plan B. | |||
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"If Trump wins Biden can go again in 2028" Could we have younger leaders, please? Worldwide, if possible? The geriatrics running the show today are dangerously out of touch with reality. | |||
"If Trump wins Biden can go again in 2028 Could we have younger leaders, please? Worldwide, if possible? The geriatrics running the show today are dangerously out of touch with reality. " Can we discuss this here? I thought the thread police had banned it? | |||
"If Trump wins Biden can go again in 2028 Could we have younger leaders, please? Worldwide, if possible? The geriatrics running the show today are dangerously out of touch with reality. Can we discuss this here? I thought the thread police had banned it?" Welcome to the politics forum  | |||
"If Trump wins Biden can go again in 2028 Could we have younger leaders, please? Worldwide, if possible? The geriatrics running the show today are dangerously out of touch with reality. Can we discuss this here? I thought the thread police had banned it? Welcome to the politics forum "Thanks. | |||
"If Trump wins Biden can go again in 2028" He will be dead by then, dementia patients don’t last very long. | |||
"Is he related to Bob?" Roscoe P Coletrain maybe…?  | |||
"If Trump wins Biden can go again in 2028 He will be dead by then, dementia patients don’t last very long." What a stupid thing to say. | |||
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"Curious mix of a Yale Law School grade and redneck cowboy. Uniquely American combo." Yes my thoughts exactly! He is the Dons bessy mate now after labelling him akin to Adolph | |||
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"If Trump wins Biden can go again in 2028" lol i doubt biden will make it to november let alone 2028 | |||
"If Trump wins Biden can go again in 2028lol i doubt biden will mak e it to november let alone 2028" Good point well made! | |||
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"Many western countries are entrenched in the military industrial complex and in the US big pharma rules, it’s not the politicians that get anything done its industry, they call the shots, where we are now is exactly what JFK spoke against and look where he ended up, younger politicians should be in charge but it’s corrupt and based on profits first, Tulsi Gabbard mid 40’s time served veteran talks a lot of sense but no longer runs for democrats as it’s about money not helping the people, jd Vance is in there saying he will make a difference but he’s merely trumps whipping boy, puppets to the corporations "  | |||
"I'm confused about the "Vance no likey Trump but now lovey Trump mucho". Baffling." The self respect, honesty and integrity of the vast majority of Republican politicians is so shallow it does not even come up to the knees of a tardigrade. Did anyone else see Nikki Haley debase herself at the alter of Trump? Even as she grovelled her undying support to Trump on stage he was insulting her to a colleague. Does America really want these people controlling their destiny? | |||
" Did anyone else see Nikki Haley debase herself at the alter of Trump? Even as she grovelled her undying support to Trump on stage he was insulting her to a colleague. " It was truly disgusting. She was forced to grovel even as many booed her. It was a complete power play. Look, if that party wants to play by those rules, where the "weak" are forced to kneel and have garbage thrown at them... It's a free country (in this respect). That much is very, very clear. It might not be our values, but if they're into that... | |||
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"If Trump wins Biden can go again in 2028 He will be dead by then, dementia patients don’t last very long. What a stupid thing to say." You don’t think Biden is at the very least early onset? He wouldn’t know what day it is without being constantly reminded. There is no way he will still be around in 2028! Nothing stupid about pointing this out. Nothing at all… | |||
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"If Trump wins Biden can go again in 2028 He will be dead by then, dementia patients don’t last very long. What a stupid thing to say. You don’t think Biden is at the very least early onset? He wouldn’t know what day it is without being constantly reminded. There is no way he will still be around in 2028! Nothing stupid about pointing this out. Nothing at all…" Actually the second part of the sentence is a stupid thing to say. As for Biden having dementia, I wouldn't know. There are over 100 dementia types, it's an umbrella term. Is it likely he has one? The risk increases with age, so he may. However, he has rather a stressful job. Go see what long term high cortisol can do. | |||
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"If Trump wins Biden can go again in 2028 He will be dead by then, dementia patients don’t last very long. What a stupid thing to say. You don’t think Biden is at the very least early onset? He wouldn’t know what day it is without being constantly reminded. There is no way he will still be around in 2028! Nothing stupid about pointing this out. Nothing at all… Actually the second part of the sentence is a stupid thing to say. As for Biden having dementia, I wouldn't know. There are over 100 dementia types, it's an umbrella term. Is it likely he has one? The risk increases with age, so he may. However, he has rather a stressful job. Go see what long term high cortisol can do." I had a dog that had Cushing Syndrome, she did look a bit like Biden… | |||
"If Trump wins Biden can go again in 2028 He will be dead by then, dementia patients don’t last very long. What a stupid thing to say. You don’t think Biden is at the very least early onset? He wouldn’t know what day it is without being constantly reminded. There is no way he will still be around in 2028! Nothing stupid about pointing this out. Nothing at all…" I think you’d be foolish to think that neither Trump or Biden are experiencing some pretty severe cognitive issues. It just seems more evident in Biden because Trump has never exactly displayed a lot of clarity in the past. | |||
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"If Trump wins Biden can go again in 2028 He will be dead by then, dementia patients don’t last very long. What a stupid thing to say. You don’t think Biden is at the very least early onset? He wouldn’t know what day it is without being constantly reminded. There is no way he will still be around in 2028! Nothing stupid about pointing this out. Nothing at all… I think you’d be foolish to think that neither Trump or Biden are experiencing some pretty severe cognitive issues. It just seems more evident in Biden because Trump has never exactly displayed a lot of clarity in the past." Whataboutism! It seems more severe in Biden because it is 
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"If Trump wins Biden can go again in 2028 He will be dead by then, dementia patients don’t last very long. What a stupid thing to say. You don’t think Biden is at the very least early onset? He wouldn’t know what day it is without being constantly reminded. There is no way he will still be around in 2028! Nothing stupid about pointing this out. Nothing at all… I think you’d be foolish to think that neither Trump or Biden are experiencing some pretty severe cognitive issues. It just seems more evident in Biden because Trump has never exactly displayed a lot of clarity in the past. Whataboutism! It seems more severe in Biden because it is
"Biden at some point, had some clarity of thought. Trump seems to have never been all there. | |||
"If Trump wins Biden can go again in 2028 He will be dead by then, dementia patients don’t last very long. What a stupid thing to say. You don’t think Biden is at the very least early onset? He wouldn’t know what day it is without being constantly reminded. There is no way he will still be around in 2028! Nothing stupid about pointing this out. Nothing at all… I think you’d be foolish to think that neither Trump or Biden are experiencing some pretty severe cognitive issues. It just seems more evident in Biden because Trump has never exactly displayed a lot of clarity in the past. Whataboutism! It seems more severe in Biden because it is
"Biden used to have a sound mind seems to be the reason to keep him going now  | |||
"If Trump wins Biden can go again in 2028 He will be dead by then, dementia patients don’t last very long. What a stupid thing to say. You don’t think Biden is at the very least early onset? He wouldn’t know what day it is without being constantly reminded. There is no way he will still be around in 2028! Nothing stupid about pointing this out. Nothing at all… I think you’d be foolish to think that neither Trump or Biden are experiencing some pretty severe cognitive issues. It just seems more evident in Biden because Trump has never exactly displayed a lot of clarity in the past. Whataboutism! It seems more severe in Biden because it is
Biden at some point, had some clarity of thought. Trump seems to have never been all there."They both have been young and sharp in mind, both are now old with Biden showing signs of great deterioration, far above and beyond that of Trump, to say anything different is surely lying | |||
"If Trump wins Biden can go again in 2028 He will be dead by then, dementia patients don’t last very long. What a stupid thing to say. You don’t think Biden is at the very least early onset? He wouldn’t know what day it is without being constantly reminded. There is no way he will still be around in 2028! Nothing stupid about pointing this out. Nothing at all… I think you’d be foolish to think that neither Trump or Biden are experiencing some pretty severe cognitive issues. It just seems more evident in Biden because Trump has never exactly displayed a lot of clarity in the past. Whataboutism! It seems more severe in Biden because it is
Biden used to have a sound mind seems to be the reason to keep him going now "Fear of Trump is starting to feel like mass hysteria | |||
"If Trump wins Biden can go again in 2028 He will be dead by then, dementia patients don’t last very long. What a stupid thing to say. You don’t think Biden is at the very least early onset? He wouldn’t know what day it is without being constantly reminded. There is no way he will still be around in 2028! Nothing stupid about pointing this out. Nothing at all… I think you’d be foolish to think that neither Trump or Biden are experiencing some pretty severe cognitive issues. It just seems more evident in Biden because Trump has never exactly displayed a lot of clarity in the past. Whataboutism! It seems more severe in Biden because it is
Biden used to have a sound mind seems to be the reason to keep him going now
Fear of Trump is starting to feel like mass hysteria "Sort of like a ‘project fear?’ I wonder how that turned out? | |||
"If Trump wins Biden can go again in 2028 He will be dead by then, dementia patients don’t last very long. What a stupid thing to say. You don’t think Biden is at the very least early onset? He wouldn’t know what day it is without being constantly reminded. There is no way he will still be around in 2028! Nothing stupid about pointing this out. Nothing at all… I think you’d be foolish to think that neither Trump or Biden are experiencing some pretty severe cognitive issues. It just seems more evident in Biden because Trump has never exactly displayed a lot of clarity in the past. Whataboutism! It seems more severe in Biden because it is
Biden used to have a sound mind seems to be the reason to keep him going now
Fear of Trump is starting to feel like mass hysteria
Sort of like a ‘project fear?’ I wonder how that turned out?"Awful for those that can’t accept other points of view | |||
"If Trump wins Biden can go again in 2028 He will be dead by then, dementia patients don’t last very long. What a stupid thing to say. You don’t think Biden is at the very least early onset? He wouldn’t know what day it is without being constantly reminded. There is no way he will still be around in 2028! Nothing stupid about pointing this out. Nothing at all… I think you’d be foolish to think that neither Trump or Biden are experiencing some pretty severe cognitive issues. It just seems more evident in Biden because Trump has never exactly displayed a lot of clarity in the past. Whataboutism! It seems more severe in Biden because it is
Biden used to have a sound mind seems to be the reason to keep him going now
Fear of Trump is starting to feel like mass hysteria "No, people are allowed to discuss Trumps previous presidency, and his potential forthcoming presidency without it being "mass hysteria". Describing it as such is an attempt to dismiss the legitimate criticism of Trump. | |||
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"If Trump wins Biden can go again in 2028 He will be dead by then, dementia patients don’t last very long. What a stupid thing to say. You don’t think Biden is at the very least early onset? He wouldn’t know what day it is without being constantly reminded. There is no way he will still be around in 2028! Nothing stupid about pointing this out. Nothing at all… I think you’d be foolish to think that neither Trump or Biden are experiencing some pretty severe cognitive issues. It just seems more evident in Biden because Trump has never exactly displayed a lot of clarity in the past. Whataboutism! It seems more severe in Biden because it is
Biden used to have a sound mind seems to be the reason to keep him going now
Fear of Trump is starting to feel like mass hysteria
No, people are allowed to discuss Trumps previous presidency, and his potential forthcoming presidency without it being "mass hysteria".
Describing it as such is an attempt to dismiss the legitimate criticism of Trump."Do you think it is okay to call Trump a Nazi, or to say it is a shame the shooter missed, or to liken his mental awareness to that of Biden? There are so many more things I could list that are not true but they’ve been said enough for them to be near legitimised by the progressives. The lack of facts and exaggeration is overwhelming when it comes to the way people talk about Trump, I think it is mass hysteria, it is all playing off one another in some large scale joint role play of Trump hatred. I welcome real and meaningful discussion about Trump, I would actively encourage it, it would make a refreshing change to discuss without the button being pressed to go nuclear from the get go. | |||
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"For some perspective on the 'Hitler' Label, read here. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jun/03/donald-trump-hitler-similarities Trump is at best a 'pathological' liar. The Washington Post reported in Jan 24 2021. "Trump’s false or misleading claims total 30,573 over 4 years" That equates to around 19 lies a day !!!! The only thing he can be trusted to do is NOT to tell the truth. "Start with the easy one: Washington post counting up 30K plus lies, that is a lot of adding up and a lot of faith to be put into that as fact. Do we blindly accept those numbers through bias or challenge the reason someone would go to those lengths, or even if they actually did? To claim he is a pathological liar is also spurious, unless they asked him to attend a medical assessment and that was the conclusion, do you know if that was the case? The comparison to Hitler: Comparing Trump to Hitler is historically and morally insensitive due to the obvious extreme nature of Hitler's actions and the devastation caused by his regime, but it is used as the go to by those who mainly want to create an emotional response from those easily persuaded... I admit there is no denying Trump’s actions are controversial and very divisive, but they do not parallel the genocide, global warfare, and totalitarian oppression that was the legacy of Hitler’s rule. Using this type of comparison undermines rational political discourse and erodes historical atrocities committed by the Nazi regime. It also polarises all discussions and makes it difficult to engage in meaningful, fact-based debates about Trump's policies and behaviour. I also notice how the left attribute patriotism with extremism, this seems the be the catalyst for most Hitler / Trump comparisons, the thought of being patriotic is the tipping point of the left wing progressives, and most worryingly to me is why we are now seeing such divides in our society. | |||
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"For some perspective on the 'Hitler' Label, read here. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jun/03/donald-trump-hitler-similarities Trump is at best a 'pathological' liar. The Washington Post reported in Jan 24 2021. "Trump’s false or misleading claims total 30,573 over 4 years" That equates to around 19 lies a day !!!! The only thing he can be trusted to do is NOT to tell the truth.
Start with the easy one: Washington post counting up 30K plus lies, that is a lot of adding up and a lot of faith to be put into that as fact.
Do we blindly accept those numbers through bias or challenge the reason someone would go to those lengths, or even if they actually did?
To claim he is a pathological liar is also spurious, unless they asked him to attend a medical assessment and that was the conclusion, do you know if that was the case?
The comparison to Hitler:
Comparing Trump to Hitler is historically and morally insensitive due to the obvious extreme nature of Hitler's actions and the devastation caused by his regime, but it is used as the go to by those who mainly want to create an emotional response from those easily persuaded...
I admit there is no denying Trump’s actions are controversial and very divisive, but they do not parallel the genocide, global warfare, and totalitarian oppression that was the legacy of Hitler’s rule.
Using this type of comparison undermines rational political discourse and erodes historical atrocities committed by the Nazi regime.
It also polarises all discussions and makes it difficult to engage in meaningful, fact-based debates about Trump's policies and behaviour.
I also notice how the left attribute patriotism with extremism, this seems the be the catalyst for most Hitler / Trump comparisons, the thought of being patriotic is the tipping point of the left wing progressives, and most worryingly to me is why we are now seeing such divides in our society.
"IMO there is a difference between patriotism and nationalism. The former can be exhibited by any citizen of any country regardless of their political views (after all the Soviets were pretty patriotic yes?). The latter is normally classed as a right wing attribute as nationalism can include a desire to maintain national boundaries (borders, laws etc) against supranational organisations (such as the EU or the UN). Too many people make the mistake of conflating patriotism with nationalism. They are not the same. | |||
"For some perspective on the 'Hitler' Label, read here. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jun/03/donald-trump-hitler-similarities Trump is at best a 'pathological' liar. The Washington Post reported in Jan 24 2021. "Trump’s false or misleading claims total 30,573 over 4 years" That equates to around 19 lies a day !!!! The only thing he can be trusted to do is NOT to tell the truth.
Start with the easy one: Washington post counting up 30K plus lies, that is a lot of adding up and a lot of faith to be put into that as fact.
Do we blindly accept those numbers through bias or challenge the reason someone would go to those lengths, or even if they actually did?
To claim he is a pathological liar is also spurious, unless they asked him to attend a medical assessment and that was the conclusion, do you know if that was the case?
The comparison to Hitler:
Comparing Trump to Hitler is historically and morally insensitive due to the obvious extreme nature of Hitler's actions and the devastation caused by his regime, but it is used as the go to by those who mainly want to create an emotional response from those easily persuaded...
I admit there is no denying Trump’s actions are controversial and very divisive, but they do not parallel the genocide, global warfare, and totalitarian oppression that was the legacy of Hitler’s rule.
Using this type of comparison undermines rational political discourse and erodes historical atrocities committed by the Nazi regime.
It also polarises all discussions and makes it difficult to engage in meaningful, fact-based debates about Trump's policies and behaviour.
I also notice how the left attribute patriotism with extremism, this seems the be the catalyst for most Hitler / Trump comparisons, the thought of being patriotic is the tipping point of the left wing progressives, and most worryingly to me is why we are now seeing such divides in our society.
IMO there is a difference between patriotism and nationalism. The former can be exhibited by any citizen of any country regardless of their political views (after all the Soviets were pretty patriotic yes?). The latter is normally classed as a right wing attribute as nationalism can include a desire to maintain national boundaries (borders, laws etc) against supranational organisations (such as the EU or the UN).
Too many people make the mistake of conflating patriotism with nationalism. They are not the same."I was clear I thought? I'm observing patriotism as an extreme view by the left wing progressives. | |||
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"For some perspective on the 'Hitler' Label, read here. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jun/03/donald-trump-hitler-similarities Trump is at best a 'pathological' liar. The Washington Post reported in Jan 24 2021. "Trump’s false or misleading claims total 30,573 over 4 years" That equates to around 19 lies a day !!!! The only thing he can be trusted to do is NOT to tell the truth.
Start with the easy one: Washington post counting up 30K plus lies, that is a lot of adding up and a lot of faith to be put into that as fact.
Do we blindly accept those numbers through bias or challenge the reason someone would go to those lengths, or even if they actually did?
To claim he is a pathological liar is also spurious, unless they asked him to attend a medical assessment and that was the conclusion, do you know if that was the case?
The comparison to Hitler:
Comparing Trump to Hitler is historically and morally insensitive due to the obvious extreme nature of Hitler's actions and the devastation caused by his regime, but it is used as the go to by those who mainly want to create an emotional response from those easily persuaded...
I admit there is no denying Trump’s actions are controversial and very divisive, but they do not parallel the genocide, global warfare, and totalitarian oppression that was the legacy of Hitler’s rule.
Using this type of comparison undermines rational political discourse and erodes historical atrocities committed by the Nazi regime.
It also polarises all discussions and makes it difficult to engage in meaningful, fact-based debates about Trump's policies and behaviour.
I also notice how the left attribute patriotism with extremism, this seems the be the catalyst for most Hitler / Trump comparisons, the thought of being patriotic is the tipping point of the left wing progressives, and most worryingly to me is why we are now seeing such divides in our society.
IMO there is a difference between patriotism and nationalism. The former can be exhibited by any citizen of any country regardless of their political views (after all the Soviets were pretty patriotic yes?). The latter is normally classed as a right wing attribute as nationalism can include a desire to maintain national boundaries (borders, laws etc) against supranational organisations (such as the EU or the UN).
Too many people make the mistake of conflating patriotism with nationalism. They are not the same.
I was clear I thought? I'm observing patriotism as an extreme view by the left wing progressives. "We may be talking at cross purposes but are you saying left wing progressives are not able to be patriots themselves? I don’t think their criticism of some actions of those on the right is about the latter’s patriotism. I think it is about nationalism (that too often gets wrapped up with so called patriotism and flag waving so people conflate the two). | |||
"Start with the easy one: Washington post counting up 30K plus lies, that is a lot of adding up and a lot of faith to be put into that as fact. ====================== Oh it's fact. They kept a daily log. While he was President. Go check for yourself. " Excellent, now if I carried out the same exercise on people in general what would be the number of lies they would spout per day? Is there a comparison so we can see how far off the norm he is? It still does not make him a pathological liar, unless he is medically diagnosed, was he? | |||
"Start with the easy one: Washington post counting up 30K plus lies, that is a lot of adding up and a lot of faith to be put into that as fact. ====================== Oh it's fact. They kept a daily log. While he was President. Go check for yourself. Excellent, now if I carried out the same exercise on people in general what would be the number of lies they would spout per day? Is there a comparison so we can see how far off the norm he is? It still does not make him a pathological liar, unless he is medically diagnosed, was he?" Speak for yourself. Can honestly say I can’t remember the last time I lied!  | |||
"Start with the easy one: Washington post counting up 30K plus lies, that is a lot of adding up and a lot of faith to be put into that as fact. ====================== Oh it's fact. They kept a daily log. While he was President. Go check for yourself. Excellent, now if I carried out the same exercise on people in general what would be the number of lies they would spout per day? Is there a comparison so we can see how far off the norm he is? It still does not make him a pathological liar, unless he is medically diagnosed, was he?" But we are NOT talking about 'people' are we? We are talking about Trump. | |||
"If Trump wins Biden can go again in 2028 He will be dead by then, dementia patients don’t last very long. What a stupid thing to say. You don’t think Biden is at the very least early onset? He wouldn’t know what day it is without being constantly reminded. There is no way he will still be around in 2028! Nothing stupid about pointing this out. Nothing at all… I think you’d be foolish to think that neither Trump or Biden are experiencing some pretty severe cognitive issues. It just seems more evident in Biden because Trump has never exactly displayed a lot of clarity in the past. Whataboutism! It seems more severe in Biden because it is
Biden at some point, had some clarity of thought. Trump seems to have never been all there.
They both have been young and sharp in mind, both are now old with Biden showing signs of great deterioration, far above and beyond that of Trump, to say anything different is surely lying"If you're saying Biden has further to fall cos he didn't talk crap like Trump did as president, I'd have to agree. When someone has an acquired brain injury, high intelligence is used to assess as a not severe injury. The dicks who use this do not believe that intelligence can be unaffected. I'm a case in point but I've now forgotten my main point  | |||
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"For some perspective on the 'Hitler' Label, read here. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jun/03/donald-trump-hitler-similarities Trump is at best a 'pathological' liar. The Washington Post reported in Jan 24 2021. "Trump’s false or misleading claims total 30,573 over 4 years" That equates to around 19 lies a day !!!! The only thing he can be trusted to do is NOT to tell the truth.
Start with the easy one: Washington post counting up 30K plus lies, that is a lot of adding up and a lot of faith to be put into that as fact.
Do we blindly accept those numbers through bias or challenge the reason someone would go to those lengths, or even if they actually did?
To claim he is a pathological liar is also spurious, unless they asked him to attend a medical assessment and that was the conclusion, do you know if that was the case?
The comparison to Hitler:
Comparing Trump to Hitler is historically and morally insensitive due to the obvious extreme nature of Hitler's actions and the devastation caused by his regime, but it is used as the go to by those who mainly want to create an emotional response from those easily persuaded...
I admit there is no denying Trump’s actions are controversial and very divisive, but they do not parallel the genocide, global warfare, and totalitarian oppression that was the legacy of Hitler’s rule.
Using this type of comparison undermines rational political discourse and erodes historical atrocities committed by the Nazi regime.
It also polarises all discussions and makes it difficult to engage in meaningful, fact-based debates about Trump's policies and behaviour.
I also notice how the left attribute patriotism with extremism, this seems the be the catalyst for most Hitler / Trump comparisons, the thought of being patriotic is the tipping point of the left wing progressives, and most worryingly to me is why we are now seeing such divides in our society.
"You cannot compare Trump with Hitler, and I'm a leftie! | |||
"For some perspective on the 'Hitler' Label, read here. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jun/03/donald-trump-hitler-similarities Trump is at best a 'pathological' liar. The Washington Post reported in Jan 24 2021. "Trump’s false or misleading claims total 30,573 over 4 years" That equates to around 19 lies a day !!!! The only thing he can be trusted to do is NOT to tell the truth.
Start with the easy one: Washington post counting up 30K plus lies, that is a lot of adding up and a lot of faith to be put into that as fact.
Do we blindly accept those numbers through bias or challenge the reason someone would go to those lengths, or even if they actually did?
To claim he is a pathological liar is also spurious, unless they asked him to attend a medical assessment and that was the conclusion, do you know if that was the case?
The comparison to Hitler:
Comparing Trump to Hitler is historically and morally insensitive due to the obvious extreme nature of Hitler's actions and the devastation caused by his regime, but it is used as the go to by those who mainly want to create an emotional response from those easily persuaded...
I admit there is no denying Trump’s actions are controversial and very divisive, but they do not parallel the genocide, global warfare, and totalitarian oppression that was the legacy of Hitler’s rule.
Using this type of comparison undermines rational political discourse and erodes historical atrocities committed by the Nazi regime.
It also polarises all discussions and makes it difficult to engage in meaningful, fact-based debates about Trump's policies and behaviour.
I also notice how the left attribute patriotism with extremism, this seems the be the catalyst for most Hitler / Trump comparisons, the thought of being patriotic is the tipping point of the left wing progressives, and most worryingly to me is why we are now seeing such divides in our society.
IMO there is a difference between patriotism and nationalism. The former can be exhibited by any citizen of any country regardless of their political views (after all the Soviets were pretty patriotic yes?). The latter is normally classed as a right wing attribute as nationalism can include a desire to maintain national boundaries (borders, laws etc) against supranational organisations (such as the EU or the UN).
Too many people make the mistake of conflating patriotism with nationalism. They are not the same.
I was clear I thought? I'm observing patriotism as an extreme view by the left wing progressives. "Does that mean I'm a left wing regressive? | |||
"For some perspective on the 'Hitler' Label, read here. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jun/03/donald-trump-hitler-similarities Trump is at best a 'pathological' liar. The Washington Post reported in Jan 24 2021. "Trump’s false or misleading claims total 30,573 over 4 years" That equates to around 19 lies a day !!!! The only thing he can be trusted to do is NOT to tell the truth.
Start with the easy one: Washington post counting up 30K plus lies, that is a lot of adding up and a lot of faith to be put into that as fact.
Do we blindly accept those numbers through bias or challenge the reason someone would go to those lengths, or even if they actually did?
To claim he is a pathological liar is also spurious, unless they asked him to attend a medical assessment and that was the conclusion, do you know if that was the case?
The comparison to Hitler:
Comparing Trump to Hitler is historically and morally insensitive due to the obvious extreme nature of Hitler's actions and the devastation caused by his regime, but it is used as the go to by those who mainly want to create an emotional response from those easily persuaded...
I admit there is no denying Trump’s actions are controversial and very divisive, but they do not parallel the genocide, global warfare, and totalitarian oppression that was the legacy of Hitler’s rule.
Using this type of comparison undermines rational political discourse and erodes historical atrocities committed by the Nazi regime.
It also polarises all discussions and makes it difficult to engage in meaningful, fact-based debates about Trump's policies and behaviour.
I also notice how the left attribute patriotism with extremism, this seems the be the catalyst for most Hitler / Trump comparisons, the thought of being patriotic is the tipping point of the left wing progressives, and most worryingly to me is why we are now seeing such divides in our society.
IMO there is a difference between patriotism and nationalism. The former can be exhibited by any citizen of any country regardless of their political views (after all the Soviets were pretty patriotic yes?). The latter is normally classed as a right wing attribute as nationalism can include a desire to maintain national boundaries (borders, laws etc) against supranational organisations (such as the EU or the UN).
Too many people make the mistake of conflating patriotism with nationalism. They are not the same.
I was clear I thought? I'm observing patriotism as an extreme view by the left wing progressives.
Does that mean I'm a left wing regressive?"That would be good | |||
"Start with the easy one: Washington post counting up 30K plus lies, that is a lot of adding up and a lot of faith to be put into that as fact. ====================== Oh it's fact. They kept a daily log. While he was President. Go check for yourself. Excellent, now if I carried out the same exercise on people in general what would be the number of lies they would spout per day? Is there a comparison so we can see how far off the norm he is? It still does not make him a pathological liar, unless he is medically diagnosed, was he?" Last sentence - interesting to think that copious lie telling could have a pathology. Would have to delve into neurophysiology. | |||
"Start with the easy one: Washington post counting up 30K plus lies, that is a lot of adding up and a lot of faith to be put into that as fact. ====================== Oh it's fact. They kept a daily log. While he was President. Go check for yourself. Excellent, now if I carried out the same exercise on people in general what would be the number of lies they would spout per day? Is there a comparison so we can see how far off the norm he is? It still does not make him a pathological liar, unless he is medically diagnosed, was he? But we are NOT talking about 'people' are we? We are talking about Trump. " In isolation everything is amplified, but in comparison to, it can often be less impactful. Be clear I'm not saying he does not lie, it would be not human for him not to and more so him being a political leader. | |||
"For some perspective on the 'Hitler' Label, read here. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jun/03/donald-trump-hitler-similarities Trump is at best a 'pathological' liar. The Washington Post reported in Jan 24 2021. "Trump’s false or misleading claims total 30,573 over 4 years" That equates to around 19 lies a day !!!! The only thing he can be trusted to do is NOT to tell the truth.
Start with the easy one: Washington post counting up 30K plus lies, that is a lot of adding up and a lot of faith to be put into that as fact.
Do we blindly accept those numbers through bias or challenge the reason someone would go to those lengths, or even if they actually did?
To claim he is a pathological liar is also spurious, unless they asked him to attend a medical assessment and that was the conclusion, do you know if that was the case?
The comparison to Hitler:
Comparing Trump to Hitler is historically and morally insensitive due to the obvious extreme nature of Hitler's actions and the devastation caused by his regime, but it is used as the go to by those who mainly want to create an emotional response from those easily persuaded...
I admit there is no denying Trump’s actions are controversial and very divisive, but they do not parallel the genocide, global warfare, and totalitarian oppression that was the legacy of Hitler’s rule.
Using this type of comparison undermines rational political discourse and erodes historical atrocities committed by the Nazi regime.
It also polarises all discussions and makes it difficult to engage in meaningful, fact-based debates about Trump's policies and behaviour.
I also notice how the left attribute patriotism with extremism, this seems the be the catalyst for most Hitler / Trump comparisons, the thought of being patriotic is the tipping point of the left wing progressives, and most worryingly to me is why we are now seeing such divides in our society.
IMO there is a difference between patriotism and nationalism. The former can be exhibited by any citizen of any country regardless of their political views (after all the Soviets were pretty patriotic yes?). The latter is normally classed as a right wing attribute as nationalism can include a desire to maintain national boundaries (borders, laws etc) against supranational organisations (such as the EU or the UN).
Too many people make the mistake of conflating patriotism with nationalism. They are not the same.
I was clear I thought? I'm observing patriotism as an extreme view by the left wing progressives.
Does that mean I'm a left wing regressive?
That would be good "Why, what would that mean? | |||
)
Q. are you saying left wing progressives are not able to be patriots themselves? | |||
"Start with the easy one: Washington post counting up 30K plus lies, that is a lot of adding up and a lot of faith to be put into that as fact. ====================== Oh it's fact. They kept a daily log. While he was President. Go check for yourself. Excellent, now if I carried out the same exercise on people in general what would be the number of lies they would spout per day? Is there a comparison so we can see how far off the norm he is? It still does not make him a pathological liar, unless he is medically diagnosed, was he? Speak for yourself. Can honestly say I can’t remember the last time I lied! "You will lie, humans lie it is a fact. Children learn to lie around 2- 4 years of age as their lives become more complex and they start to develop more cognitive skills. Their ability to lie indicates development of mental skills, understanding that others have thoughts, beliefs, and perspectives different from their own and understanding how their actions have effects. | |||
"Hey @NotMe you have not answered my question (needy much me )
Q. are you saying left wing progressives are not able to be patriots themselves?"No, not all. In my opinion the most progressive will see patriotic action and symbolism as extremist views. You are correct that patriotism and nationalism are very different things, but not really understood as such. The incident in Bristol is a good example, The statue of Edward Colston was toppled into the water. That led to people protecting other statues around the country, that action was seen as extremists protecting colonial pasts, however the people protecting those statues were protecting the item through patriotic intent and not for the lingering want of returning the country to its colonial past. These events create more and more divide when bad actors skew the meanings and intentions to drive a wedge through sides. If both sides actually took time to recognise this, we could stand a chance of turning down the dial a little. | |||
"For some perspective on the 'Hitler' Label, read here. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jun/03/donald-trump-hitler-similarities Trump is at best a 'pathological' liar. The Washington Post reported in Jan 24 2021. "Trump’s false or misleading claims total 30,573 over 4 years" That equates to around 19 lies a day !!!! The only thing he can be trusted to do is NOT to tell the truth.
Start with the easy one: Washington post counting up 30K plus lies, that is a lot of adding up and a lot of faith to be put into that as fact.
Do we blindly accept those numbers through bias or challenge the reason someone would go to those lengths, or even if they actually did?
To claim he is a pathological liar is also spurious, unless they asked him to attend a medical assessment and that was the conclusion, do you know if that was the case?
The comparison to Hitler:
Comparing Trump to Hitler is historically and morally insensitive due to the obvious extreme nature of Hitler's actions and the devastation caused by his regime, but it is used as the go to by those who mainly want to create an emotional response from those easily persuaded...
I admit there is no denying Trump’s actions are controversial and very divisive, but they do not parallel the genocide, global warfare, and totalitarian oppression that was the legacy of Hitler’s rule.
Using this type of comparison undermines rational political discourse and erodes historical atrocities committed by the Nazi regime.
It also polarises all discussions and makes it difficult to engage in meaningful, fact-based debates about Trump's policies and behaviour.
I also notice how the left attribute patriotism with extremism, this seems the be the catalyst for most Hitler / Trump comparisons, the thought of being patriotic is the tipping point of the left wing progressives, and most worryingly to me is why we are now seeing such divides in our society.
IMO there is a difference between patriotism and nationalism. The former can be exhibited by any citizen of any country regardless of their political views (after all the Soviets were pretty patriotic yes?). The latter is normally classed as a right wing attribute as nationalism can include a desire to maintain national boundaries (borders, laws etc) against supranational organisations (such as the EU or the UN).
Too many people make the mistake of conflating patriotism with nationalism. They are not the same.
I was clear I thought? I'm observing patriotism as an extreme view by the left wing progressives.
Does that mean I'm a left wing regressive?
That would be good
Why, what would that mean?"You are not wandering down the path towards the light at the end of the tunnel, you are more than happy to be towards the middle with a more open mind. | |||
"For some perspective on the 'Hitler' Label, read here. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jun/03/donald-trump-hitler-similarities Trump is at best a 'pathological' liar. The Washington Post reported in Jan 24 2021. "Trump’s false or misleading claims total 30,573 over 4 years" That equates to around 19 lies a day !!!! The only thing he can be trusted to do is NOT to tell the truth.
Start with the easy one: Washington post counting up 30K plus lies, that is a lot of adding up and a lot of faith to be put into that as fact.
Do we blindly accept those numbers through bias or challenge the reason someone would go to those lengths, or even if they actually did?
To claim he is a pathological liar is also spurious, unless they asked him to attend a medical assessment and that was the conclusion, do you know if that was the case?
The comparison to Hitler:
Comparing Trump to Hitler is historically and morally insensitive due to the obvious extreme nature of Hitler's actions and the devastation caused by his regime, but it is used as the go to by those who mainly want to create an emotional response from those easily persuaded...
I admit there is no denying Trump’s actions are controversial and very divisive, but they do not parallel the genocide, global warfare, and totalitarian oppression that was the legacy of Hitler’s rule.
Using this type of comparison undermines rational political discourse and erodes historical atrocities committed by the Nazi regime.
It also polarises all discussions and makes it difficult to engage in meaningful, fact-based debates about Trump's policies and behaviour.
I also notice how the left attribute patriotism with extremism, this seems the be the catalyst for most Hitler / Trump comparisons, the thought of being patriotic is the tipping point of the left wing progressives, and most worryingly to me is why we are now seeing such divides in our society.
IMO there is a difference between patriotism and nationalism. The former can be exhibited by any citizen of any country regardless of their political views (after all the Soviets were pretty patriotic yes?). The latter is normally classed as a right wing attribute as nationalism can include a desire to maintain national boundaries (borders, laws etc) against supranational organisations (such as the EU or the UN).
Too many people make the mistake of conflating patriotism with nationalism. They are not the same.
I was clear I thought? I'm observing patriotism as an extreme view by the left wing progressives.
Does that mean I'm a left wing regressive?
That would be good
Why, what would that mean?
You are not wandering down the path towards the light at the end of the tunnel, you are more than happy to be towards the middle with a more open mind."Go into the light carolanne | |||
"Oh and while Trump is an awful human being with some dreadful views, actions, and attributes, he is far from being anywhere near any equivalence of Hitler! That’s just a very silly comparison." Wasn’t it JD Vance who compared Trump to Hitler? | |||
"If Trump wins Biden can go again in 2028 He will be dead by then, dementia patients don’t last very long. What a stupid thing to say. You don’t think Biden is at the very least early onset? He wouldn’t know what day it is without being constantly reminded. There is no way he will still be around in 2028! Nothing stupid about pointing this out. Nothing at all… I think you’d be foolish to think that neither Trump or Biden are experiencing some pretty severe cognitive issues. It just seems more evident in Biden because Trump has never exactly displayed a lot of clarity in the past. Whataboutism! It seems more severe in Biden because it is
Biden used to have a sound mind seems to be the reason to keep him going now
Fear of Trump is starting to feel like mass hysteria
No, people are allowed to discuss Trumps previous presidency, and his potential forthcoming presidency without it being "mass hysteria".
Describing it as such is an attempt to dismiss the legitimate criticism of Trump.
Do you think it is okay to call Trump a Nazi, or to say it is a shame the shooter missed,
"No, but I haven't said these things, and you've many times implied or said my points are hysteria. " or to liken his mental awareness to that of Biden? " They're similar, not the same of course. Trump has never been on the ball. " There are so many more things I could list that are not true but they’ve been said enough for them to be near legitimised by the progressives. The lack of facts and exaggeration is overwhelming when it comes to the way people talk about Trump, " I see it completely the opposite, people directly quote him, and quote policies he has put in place and it gets written of as "TDS" or equivalent. " I think it is mass hysteria, it is all playing off one another in some large scale joint role play of Trump hatred. I welcome real and meaningful discussion about Trump, I would actively encourage it, it would make a refreshing change to discuss without the button being pressed to go nuclear from the get go. " How can we have meaningful discussion if we cant quote the things he says, talk about his policies or about what he says he'll do? | |||
"Start with the easy one: Washington post counting up 30K plus lies, that is a lot of adding up and a lot of faith to be put into that as fact. ====================== Oh it's fact. They kept a daily log. While he was President. Go check for yourself. Excellent, now if I carried out the same exercise on people in general what would be the number of lies they would spout per day? Is there a comparison so we can see how far off the norm he is? It still does not make him a pathological liar, unless he is medically diagnosed, was he? Speak for yourself. Can honestly say I can’t remember the last time I lied!
You will lie, humans lie it is a fact.
Children learn to lie around 2- 4 years of age as their lives become more complex and they start to develop more cognitive skills. Their ability to lie indicates development of mental skills, understanding that others have thoughts, beliefs, and perspectives different from their own and understanding how their actions have effects.
"Of course across your life but 30,000 in a few short years! | |||
"Hey @NotMe you have not answered my question (needy much me )
Q. are you saying left wing progressives are not able to be patriots themselves?
No, not all.
In my opinion the most progressive will see patriotic action and symbolism as extremist views.
You are correct that patriotism and nationalism are very different things, but not really understood as such.
The incident in Bristol is a good example, The statue of Edward Colston was toppled into the water. That led to people protecting other statues around the country, that action was seen as extremists protecting colonial pasts, however the people protecting those statues were protecting the item through patriotic intent and not for the lingering want of returning the country to its colonial past.
These events create more and more divide when bad actors skew the meanings and intentions to drive a wedge through sides. If both sides actually took time to recognise this, we could stand a chance of turning down the dial a little.
"I don’t recognise this. Of course there are outliers but I do not agree with such a sweeping statement or conflation. While I certainly do not agree with defacing statues, I do not think protecting these same statues equates to patriotism either. That would imply that it is patriotic to support and celebrate the actions of our past regardless of what they were. | |||
"Hey @NotMe you have not answered my question (needy much me )
Q. are you saying left wing progressives are not able to be patriots themselves?
No, not all.
In my opinion the most progressive will see patriotic action and symbolism as extremist views.
You are correct that patriotism and nationalism are very different things, but not really understood as such.
The incident in Bristol is a good example, The statue of Edward Colston was toppled into the water. That led to people protecting other statues around the country, that action was seen as extremists protecting colonial pasts, however the people protecting those statues were protecting the item through patriotic intent and not for the lingering want of returning the country to its colonial past.
These events create more and more divide when bad actors skew the meanings and intentions to drive a wedge through sides. If both sides actually took time to recognise this, we could stand a chance of turning down the dial a little.
I don’t recognise this. Of course there are outliers but I do not agree with such a sweeping statement or conflation. While I certainly do not agree with defacing statues, I do not think protecting these same statues equates to patriotism either. That would imply that it is patriotic to support and celebrate the actions of our past regardless of what they were. "You must ask the patriot, not yourself. | |||
"Hey @NotMe you have not answered my question (needy much me )
Q. are you saying left wing progressives are not able to be patriots themselves?
No, not all.
In my opinion the most progressive will see patriotic action and symbolism as extremist views.
You are correct that patriotism and nationalism are very different things, but not really understood as such.
The incident in Bristol is a good example, The statue of Edward Colston was toppled into the water. That led to people protecting other statues around the country, that action was seen as extremists protecting colonial pasts, however the people protecting those statues were protecting the item through patriotic intent and not for the lingering want of returning the country to its colonial past.
These events create more and more divide when bad actors skew the meanings and intentions to drive a wedge through sides. If both sides actually took time to recognise this, we could stand a chance of turning down the dial a little.
I don’t recognise this. Of course there are outliers but I do not agree with such a sweeping statement or conflation. While I certainly do not agree with defacing statues, I do not think protecting these same statues equates to patriotism either. That would imply that it is patriotic to support and celebrate the actions of our past regardless of what they were.
You must ask the patriot, not yourself. "Are we talking the relative merits of the British Empire here? | |||
"Hey @NotMe you have not answered my question (needy much me )
Q. are you saying left wing progressives are not able to be patriots themselves?
No, not all.
In my opinion the most progressive will see patriotic action and symbolism as extremist views.
You are correct that patriotism and nationalism are very different things, but not really understood as such.
The incident in Bristol is a good example, The statue of Edward Colston was toppled into the water. That led to people protecting other statues around the country, that action was seen as extremists protecting colonial pasts, however the people protecting those statues were protecting the item through patriotic intent and not for the lingering want of returning the country to its colonial past.
These events create more and more divide when bad actors skew the meanings and intentions to drive a wedge through sides. If both sides actually took time to recognise this, we could stand a chance of turning down the dial a little.
I don’t recognise this. Of course there are outliers but I do not agree with such a sweeping statement or conflation. While I certainly do not agree with defacing statues, I do not think protecting these same statues equates to patriotism either. That would imply that it is patriotic to support and celebrate the actions of our past regardless of what they were.
You must ask the patriot, not yourself. "I do not think it is “patriotic” to protect statues. I think it is a civic duty and morally correct to try and prevent vandalism. I don’t see that as patriotism! I certainly do not see that as the preserve of the right. I certainly do not agree with your opinion that “most progressive will see patriotic action and symbolism as extremist views.” I simply do not recognise that. In my opinion you are conflating patriotism with nationalism due to the narrative often seemingly to do this. Either that or your example doesn’t quite work to explain the point. Here’s another example… If a person flies the Cross of St Andrew on their house, I think most people would see them as a proud Scot and patriot. I believe few people would jump to the conclusion they are a Scottish nationalist wanting independence (they might be but I do not think that would be the first thought). If a person flies the Cross of St George on their house (at a time when there are not int’l football comps) the first assumption is often they are right wing and nationalist rather than patriotic. That is because the English flag has been appropriated in the past by right wing organisations. However, the person may well just be a proud Englishman regardless of their political leanings. So assumptions work both ways and I disagree that left wing progressives (a group you talk about a lot) believe patriotism is extreme right wing (some may I guess) but again it is the conflation with nationalism. | |||
"Hey @NotMe you have not answered my question (needy much me )
Q. are you saying left wing progressives are not able to be patriots themselves?
No, not all.
In my opinion the most progressive will see patriotic action and symbolism as extremist views.
You are correct that patriotism and nationalism are very different things, but not really understood as such.
The incident in Bristol is a good example, The statue of Edward Colston was toppled into the water. That led to people protecting other statues around the country, that action was seen as extremists protecting colonial pasts, however the people protecting those statues were protecting the item through patriotic intent and not for the lingering want of returning the country to its colonial past.
These events create more and more divide when bad actors skew the meanings and intentions to drive a wedge through sides. If both sides actually took time to recognise this, we could stand a chance of turning down the dial a little.
I don’t recognise this. Of course there are outliers but I do not agree with such a sweeping statement or conflation. While I certainly do not agree with defacing statues, I do not think protecting these same statues equates to patriotism either. That would imply that it is patriotic to support and celebrate the actions of our past regardless of what they were.
You must ask the patriot, not yourself.
I do not think it is “patriotic” to protect statues. I think it is a civic duty and morally correct to try and prevent vandalism. I don’t see that as patriotism! I certainly do not see that as the preserve of the right.
I certainly do not agree with your opinion that “most progressive will see patriotic action and symbolism as extremist views.” I simply do not recognise that.
In my opinion you are conflating patriotism with nationalism due to the narrative often seemingly to do this. Either that or your example doesn’t quite work to explain the point.
Here’s another example…
If a person flies the Cross of St Andrew on their house, I think most people would see them as a proud Scot and patriot. I believe few people would jump to the conclusion they are a Scottish nationalist wanting independence (they might be but I do not think that would be the first thought).
If a person flies the Cross of St George on their house (at a time when there are not int’l football comps) the first assumption is often they are right wing and nationalist rather than patriotic. That is because the English flag has been appropriated in the past by right wing organisations. However, the person may well just be a proud Englishman regardless of their political leanings.
So assumptions work both ways and I disagree that left wing progressives (a group you talk about a lot) believe patriotism is extreme right wing (some may I guess) but again it is the conflation with nationalism."Your last example of the George cross supports my thinking perfectly. | |||
"Hey @NotMe you have not answered my question (needy much me )
Q. are you saying left wing progressives are not able to be patriots themselves?
No, not all.
In my opinion the most progressive will see patriotic action and symbolism as extremist views.
You are correct that patriotism and nationalism are very different things, but not really understood as such.
The incident in Bristol is a good example, The statue of Edward Colston was toppled into the water. That led to people protecting other statues around the country, that action was seen as extremists protecting colonial pasts, however the people protecting those statues were protecting the item through patriotic intent and not for the lingering want of returning the country to its colonial past.
These events create more and more divide when bad actors skew the meanings and intentions to drive a wedge through sides. If both sides actually took time to recognise this, we could stand a chance of turning down the dial a little.
I don’t recognise this. Of course there are outliers but I do not agree with such a sweeping statement or conflation. While I certainly do not agree with defacing statues, I do not think protecting these same statues equates to patriotism either. That would imply that it is patriotic to support and celebrate the actions of our past regardless of what they were.
You must ask the patriot, not yourself.
I do not think it is “patriotic” to protect statues. I think it is a civic duty and morally correct to try and prevent vandalism. I don’t see that as patriotism! I certainly do not see that as the preserve of the right.
I certainly do not agree with your opinion that “most progressive will see patriotic action and symbolism as extremist views.” I simply do not recognise that.
In my opinion you are conflating patriotism with nationalism due to the narrative often seemingly to do this. Either that or your example doesn’t quite work to explain the point.
Here’s another example…
If a person flies the Cross of St Andrew on their house, I think most people would see them as a proud Scot and patriot. I believe few people would jump to the conclusion they are a Scottish nationalist wanting independence (they might be but I do not think that would be the first thought).
If a person flies the Cross of St George on their house (at a time when there are not int’l football comps) the first assumption is often they are right wing and nationalist rather than patriotic. That is because the English flag has been appropriated in the past by right wing organisations. However, the person may well just be a proud Englishman regardless of their political leanings.
So assumptions work both ways and I disagree that left wing progressives (a group you talk about a lot) believe patriotism is extreme right wing (some may I guess) but again it is the conflation with nationalism.
Your last example of the George cross supports my thinking perfectly."Why is it you think that? While I have seen the Cross of St George appropriated by violent, far right groups, I haven’t seen similar when it comes to the St Andrew’s Cross. When we see images of violence where the Cross of St George is prevalent then it’s only natural that the association with nationalism sticks. | |||
"Hey @NotMe you have not answered my question (needy much me )
Q. are you saying left wing progressives are not able to be patriots themselves?
No, not all.
In my opinion the most progressive will see patriotic action and symbolism as extremist views.
You are correct that patriotism and nationalism are very different things, but not really understood as such.
The incident in Bristol is a good example, The statue of Edward Colston was toppled into the water. That led to people protecting other statues around the country, that action was seen as extremists protecting colonial pasts, however the people protecting those statues were protecting the item through patriotic intent and not for the lingering want of returning the country to its colonial past.
These events create more and more divide when bad actors skew the meanings and intentions to drive a wedge through sides. If both sides actually took time to recognise this, we could stand a chance of turning down the dial a little.
I don’t recognise this. Of course there are outliers but I do not agree with such a sweeping statement or conflation. While I certainly do not agree with defacing statues, I do not think protecting these same statues equates to patriotism either. That would imply that it is patriotic to support and celebrate the actions of our past regardless of what they were.
You must ask the patriot, not yourself.
I do not think it is “patriotic” to protect statues. I think it is a civic duty and morally correct to try and prevent vandalism. I don’t see that as patriotism! I certainly do not see that as the preserve of the right.
I certainly do not agree with your opinion that “most progressive will see patriotic action and symbolism as extremist views.” I simply do not recognise that.
In my opinion you are conflating patriotism with nationalism due to the narrative often seemingly to do this. Either that or your example doesn’t quite work to explain the point.
Here’s another example…
If a person flies the Cross of St Andrew on their house, I think most people would see them as a proud Scot and patriot. I believe few people would jump to the conclusion they are a Scottish nationalist wanting independence (they might be but I do not think that would be the first thought).
If a person flies the Cross of St George on their house (at a time when there are not int’l football comps) the first assumption is often they are right wing and nationalist rather than patriotic. That is because the English flag has been appropriated in the past by right wing organisations. However, the person may well just be a proud Englishman regardless of their political leanings.
So assumptions work both ways and I disagree that left wing progressives (a group you talk about a lot) believe patriotism is extreme right wing (some may I guess) but again it is the conflation with nationalism."This goes back to the subject we've both discussed on various threads, that many things are simply not political and are down to individual personalities. Yes there may be correlations but boy I'd rather be an individual than have everything I do or think, be because I'm a loony leftie, or a moderate centrist, or a nasty nazi. It's ridiculous. | |||
"Hey @NotMe you have not answered my question (needy much me )
Q. are you saying left wing progressives are not able to be patriots themselves?
No, not all.
In my opinion the most progressive will see patriotic action and symbolism as extremist views.
You are correct that patriotism and nationalism are very different things, but not really understood as such.
The incident in Bristol is a good example, The statue of Edward Colston was toppled into the water. That led to people protecting other statues around the country, that action was seen as extremists protecting colonial pasts, however the people protecting those statues were protecting the item through patriotic intent and not for the lingering want of returning the country to its colonial past.
These events create more and more divide when bad actors skew the meanings and intentions to drive a wedge through sides. If both sides actually took time to recognise this, we could stand a chance of turning down the dial a little.
I don’t recognise this. Of course there are outliers but I do not agree with such a sweeping statement or conflation. While I certainly do not agree with defacing statues, I do not think protecting these same statues equates to patriotism either. That would imply that it is patriotic to support and celebrate the actions of our past regardless of what they were.
You must ask the patriot, not yourself.
I do not think it is “patriotic” to protect statues. I think it is a civic duty and morally correct to try and prevent vandalism. I don’t see that as patriotism! I certainly do not see that as the preserve of the right.
I certainly do not agree with your opinion that “most progressive will see patriotic action and symbolism as extremist views.” I simply do not recognise that.
In my opinion you are conflating patriotism with nationalism due to the narrative often seemingly to do this. Either that or your example doesn’t quite work to explain the point.
Here’s another example…
If a person flies the Cross of St Andrew on their house, I think most people would see them as a proud Scot and patriot. I believe few people would jump to the conclusion they are a Scottish nationalist wanting independence (they might be but I do not think that would be the first thought).
If a person flies the Cross of St George on their house (at a time when there are not int’l football comps) the first assumption is often they are right wing and nationalist rather than patriotic. That is because the English flag has been appropriated in the past by right wing organisations. However, the person may well just be a proud Englishman regardless of their political leanings.
So assumptions work both ways and I disagree that left wing progressives (a group you talk about a lot) believe patriotism is extreme right wing (some may I guess) but again it is the conflation with nationalism.
Your last example of the George cross supports my thinking perfectly.
Why is it you think that?
While I have seen the Cross of St George appropriated by violent, far right groups, I haven’t seen similar when it comes to the St Andrew’s Cross. When we see images of violence where the Cross of St George is prevalent then it’s only natural that the association with nationalism sticks."Or d*unken football fans maybe? There will be right wing fanatics amongst them and left wing fanatics, but these Prejudiced views are driven by left wing progressives, say it enough times and it sticks. | |||
"Hey @NotMe you have not answered my question (needy much me )
Q. are you saying left wing progressives are not able to be patriots themselves?
No, not all.
In my opinion the most progressive will see patriotic action and symbolism as extremist views.
You are correct that patriotism and nationalism are very different things, but not really understood as such.
The incident in Bristol is a good example, The statue of Edward Colston was toppled into the water. That led to people protecting other statues around the country, that action was seen as extremists protecting colonial pasts, however the people protecting those statues were protecting the item through patriotic intent and not for the lingering want of returning the country to its colonial past.
These events create more and more divide when bad actors skew the meanings and intentions to drive a wedge through sides. If both sides actually took time to recognise this, we could stand a chance of turning down the dial a little.
I don’t recognise this. Of course there are outliers but I do not agree with such a sweeping statement or conflation. While I certainly do not agree with defacing statues, I do not think protecting these same statues equates to patriotism either. That would imply that it is patriotic to support and celebrate the actions of our past regardless of what they were.
You must ask the patriot, not yourself.
I do not think it is “patriotic” to protect statues. I think it is a civic duty and morally correct to try and prevent vandalism. I don’t see that as patriotism! I certainly do not see that as the preserve of the right.
I certainly do not agree with your opinion that “most progressive will see patriotic action and symbolism as extremist views.” I simply do not recognise that.
In my opinion you are conflating patriotism with nationalism due to the narrative often seemingly to do this. Either that or your example doesn’t quite work to explain the point.
Here’s another example…
If a person flies the Cross of St Andrew on their house, I think most people would see them as a proud Scot and patriot. I believe few people would jump to the conclusion they are a Scottish nationalist wanting independence (they might be but I do not think that would be the first thought).
If a person flies the Cross of St George on their house (at a time when there are not int’l football comps) the first assumption is often they are right wing and nationalist rather than patriotic. That is because the English flag has been appropriated in the past by right wing organisations. However, the person may well just be a proud Englishman regardless of their political leanings.
So assumptions work both ways and I disagree that left wing progressives (a group you talk about a lot) believe patriotism is extreme right wing (some may I guess) but again it is the conflation with nationalism.
Your last example of the George cross supports my thinking perfectly.
Why is it you think that?
While I have seen the Cross of St George appropriated by violent, far right groups, I haven’t seen similar when it comes to the St Andrew’s Cross. When we see images of violence where the Cross of St George is prevalent then it’s only natural that the association with nationalism sticks.
Or d*unken football fans maybe?
There will be right wing fanatics amongst them and left wing fanatics, but these Prejudiced views are driven by left wing progressives, say it enough times and it sticks.
"I’m talking about violent protests organised by the likes of tiny Tommy Robinson, the EDL, and their like. While some of these people may well be football fans, that is not the context in which the violence took place. | |||
"Hey @NotMe you have not answered my question (needy much me )
Q. are you saying left wing progressives are not able to be patriots themselves?
No, not all.
In my opinion the most progressive will see patriotic action and symbolism as extremist views.
You are correct that patriotism and nationalism are very different things, but not really understood as such.
The incident in Bristol is a good example, The statue of Edward Colston was toppled into the water. That led to people protecting other statues around the country, that action was seen as extremists protecting colonial pasts, however the people protecting those statues were protecting the item through patriotic intent and not for the lingering want of returning the country to its colonial past.
These events create more and more divide when bad actors skew the meanings and intentions to drive a wedge through sides. If both sides actually took time to recognise this, we could stand a chance of turning down the dial a little.
I don’t recognise this. Of course there are outliers but I do not agree with such a sweeping statement or conflation. While I certainly do not agree with defacing statues, I do not think protecting these same statues equates to patriotism either. That would imply that it is patriotic to support and celebrate the actions of our past regardless of what they were.
You must ask the patriot, not yourself.
I do not think it is “patriotic” to protect statues. I think it is a civic duty and morally correct to try and prevent vandalism. I don’t see that as patriotism! I certainly do not see that as the preserve of the right.
I certainly do not agree with your opinion that “most progressive will see patriotic action and symbolism as extremist views.” I simply do not recognise that.
In my opinion you are conflating patriotism with nationalism due to the narrative often seemingly to do this. Either that or your example doesn’t quite work to explain the point.
Here’s another example…
If a person flies the Cross of St Andrew on their house, I think most people would see them as a proud Scot and patriot. I believe few people would jump to the conclusion they are a Scottish nationalist wanting independence (they might be but I do not think that would be the first thought).
If a person flies the Cross of St George on their house (at a time when there are not int’l football comps) the first assumption is often they are right wing and nationalist rather than patriotic. That is because the English flag has been appropriated in the past by right wing organisations. However, the person may well just be a proud Englishman regardless of their political leanings.
So assumptions work both ways and I disagree that left wing progressives (a group you talk about a lot) believe patriotism is extreme right wing (some may I guess) but again it is the conflation with nationalism.
Your last example of the George cross supports my thinking perfectly.
Why is it you think that?
While I have seen the Cross of St George appropriated by violent, far right groups, I haven’t seen similar when it comes to the St Andrew’s Cross. When we see images of violence where the Cross of St George is prevalent then it’s only natural that the association with nationalism sticks.
Or d*unken football fans maybe?
There will be right wing fanatics amongst them and left wing fanatics, but these Prejudiced views are driven by left wing progressives, say it enough times and it sticks.
I’m talking about violent protests organised by the likes of tiny Tommy Robinson, the EDL, and their like. While some of these people may well be football fans, that is not the context in which the violence took place."You are talking about single incidents that are obviously right wing | |||
"Hey @NotMe you have not answered my question (needy much me )
Q. are you saying left wing progressives are not able to be patriots themselves?
No, not all.
In my opinion the most progressive will see patriotic action and symbolism as extremist views.
You are correct that patriotism and nationalism are very different things, but not really understood as such.
The incident in Bristol is a good example, The statue of Edward Colston was toppled into the water. That led to people protecting other statues around the country, that action was seen as extremists protecting colonial pasts, however the people protecting those statues were protecting the item through patriotic intent and not for the lingering want of returning the country to its colonial past.
These events create more and more divide when bad actors skew the meanings and intentions to drive a wedge through sides. If both sides actually took time to recognise this, we could stand a chance of turning down the dial a little.
I don’t recognise this. Of course there are outliers but I do not agree with such a sweeping statement or conflation. While I certainly do not agree with defacing statues, I do not think protecting these same statues equates to patriotism either. That would imply that it is patriotic to support and celebrate the actions of our past regardless of what they were.
You must ask the patriot, not yourself.
I do not think it is “patriotic” to protect statues. I think it is a civic duty and morally correct to try and prevent vandalism. I don’t see that as patriotism! I certainly do not see that as the preserve of the right.
I certainly do not agree with your opinion that “most progressive will see patriotic action and symbolism as extremist views.” I simply do not recognise that.
In my opinion you are conflating patriotism with nationalism due to the narrative often seemingly to do this. Either that or your example doesn’t quite work to explain the point.
Here’s another example…
If a person flies the Cross of St Andrew on their house, I think most people would see them as a proud Scot and patriot. I believe few people would jump to the conclusion they are a Scottish nationalist wanting independence (they might be but I do not think that would be the first thought).
If a person flies the Cross of St George on their house (at a time when there are not int’l football comps) the first assumption is often they are right wing and nationalist rather than patriotic. That is because the English flag has been appropriated in the past by right wing organisations. However, the person may well just be a proud Englishman regardless of their political leanings.
So assumptions work both ways and I disagree that left wing progressives (a group you talk about a lot) believe patriotism is extreme right wing (some may I guess) but again it is the conflation with nationalism.
Your last example of the George cross supports my thinking perfectly."And mine also. It is not patriotism that the “left wing progressives” are against. It is nationalism. But they have been conflated. | |||
"Hey @NotMe you have not answered my question (needy much me )
Q. are you saying left wing progressives are not able to be patriots themselves?
No, not all.
In my opinion the most progressive will see patriotic action and symbolism as extremist views.
You are correct that patriotism and nationalism are very different things, but not really understood as such.
The incident in Bristol is a good example, The statue of Edward Colston was toppled into the water. That led to people protecting other statues around the country, that action was seen as extremists protecting colonial pasts, however the people protecting those statues were protecting the item through patriotic intent and not for the lingering want of returning the country to its colonial past.
These events create more and more divide when bad actors skew the meanings and intentions to drive a wedge through sides. If both sides actually took time to recognise this, we could stand a chance of turning down the dial a little.
I don’t recognise this. Of course there are outliers but I do not agree with such a sweeping statement or conflation. While I certainly do not agree with defacing statues, I do not think protecting these same statues equates to patriotism either. That would imply that it is patriotic to support and celebrate the actions of our past regardless of what they were.
You must ask the patriot, not yourself.
I do not think it is “patriotic” to protect statues. I think it is a civic duty and morally correct to try and prevent vandalism. I don’t see that as patriotism! I certainly do not see that as the preserve of the right.
I certainly do not agree with your opinion that “most progressive will see patriotic action and symbolism as extremist views.” I simply do not recognise that.
In my opinion you are conflating patriotism with nationalism due to the narrative often seemingly to do this. Either that or your example doesn’t quite work to explain the point.
Here’s another example…
If a person flies the Cross of St Andrew on their house, I think most people would see them as a proud Scot and patriot. I believe few people would jump to the conclusion they are a Scottish nationalist wanting independence (they might be but I do not think that would be the first thought).
If a person flies the Cross of St George on their house (at a time when there are not int’l football comps) the first assumption is often they are right wing and nationalist rather than patriotic. That is because the English flag has been appropriated in the past by right wing organisations. However, the person may well just be a proud Englishman regardless of their political leanings.
So assumptions work both ways and I disagree that left wing progressives (a group you talk about a lot) believe patriotism is extreme right wing (some may I guess) but again it is the conflation with nationalism.
Your last example of the George cross supports my thinking perfectly.
Why is it you think that?
While I have seen the Cross of St George appropriated by violent, far right groups, I haven’t seen similar when it comes to the St Andrew’s Cross. When we see images of violence where the Cross of St George is prevalent then it’s only natural that the association with nationalism sticks.
Or d*unken football fans maybe?
There will be right wing fanatics amongst them and left wing fanatics, but these Prejudiced views are driven by left wing progressives, say it enough times and it sticks.
I’m talking about violent protests organised by the likes of tiny Tommy Robinson, the EDL, and their like. While some of these people may well be football fans, that is not the context in which the violence took place.
You are talking about single incidents that are obviously right wing "Yes, which is why the Cross of St George, and to some extent the Union flag, are associated with the far right, and nationalism, by many. | |||
| |||
"Hey @NotMe you have not answered my question (needy much me )
Q. are you saying left wing progressives are not able to be patriots themselves?
No, not all.
In my opinion the most progressive will see patriotic action and symbolism as extremist views.
You are correct that patriotism and nationalism are very different things, but not really understood as such.
The incident in Bristol is a good example, The statue of Edward Colston was toppled into the water. That led to people protecting other statues around the country, that action was seen as extremists protecting colonial pasts, however the people protecting those statues were protecting the item through patriotic intent and not for the lingering want of returning the country to its colonial past.
These events create more and more divide when bad actors skew the meanings and intentions to drive a wedge through sides. If both sides actually took time to recognise this, we could stand a chance of turning down the dial a little.
I don’t recognise this. Of course there are outliers but I do not agree with such a sweeping statement or conflation. While I certainly do not agree with defacing statues, I do not think protecting these same statues equates to patriotism either. That would imply that it is patriotic to support and celebrate the actions of our past regardless of what they were.
You must ask the patriot, not yourself.
I do not think it is “patriotic” to protect statues. I think it is a civic duty and morally correct to try and prevent vandalism. I don’t see that as patriotism! I certainly do not see that as the preserve of the right.
I certainly do not agree with your opinion that “most progressive will see patriotic action and symbolism as extremist views.” I simply do not recognise that.
In my opinion you are conflating patriotism with nationalism due to the narrative often seemingly to do this. Either that or your example doesn’t quite work to explain the point.
Here’s another example…
If a person flies the Cross of St Andrew on their house, I think most people would see them as a proud Scot and patriot. I believe few people would jump to the conclusion they are a Scottish nationalist wanting independence (they might be but I do not think that would be the first thought).
If a person flies the Cross of St George on their house (at a time when there are not int’l football comps) the first assumption is often they are right wing and nationalist rather than patriotic. That is because the English flag has been appropriated in the past by right wing organisations. However, the person may well just be a proud Englishman regardless of their political leanings.
So assumptions work both ways and I disagree that left wing progressives (a group you talk about a lot) believe patriotism is extreme right wing (some may I guess) but again it is the conflation with nationalism.
Your last example of the George cross supports my thinking perfectly.
Why is it you think that?
While I have seen the Cross of St George appropriated by violent, far right groups, I haven’t seen similar when it comes to the St Andrew’s Cross. When we see images of violence where the Cross of St George is prevalent then it’s only natural that the association with nationalism sticks.
Or d*unken football fans maybe?
There will be right wing fanatics amongst them and left wing fanatics, but these Prejudiced views are driven by left wing progressives, say it enough times and it sticks.
I’m talking about violent protests organised by the likes of tiny Tommy Robinson, the EDL, and their like. While some of these people may well be football fans, that is not the context in which the violence took place.
You are talking about single incidents that are obviously right wing
Yes, which is why the Cross of St George, and to some extent the Union flag, are associated with the far right, and nationalism, by many."By mainly the left wing who try to make a point that patriotism is extreme and use the example of a right wing group flying a George cross flag when it fits their narrative. No mention of nationalism, either patriot or right wing extremists. As I’ve said patriot has become a dirty word due, when it should be celebrated as a good virtue for the whole of the country. | |||
"Hey @NotMe you have not answered my question (needy much me )
Q. are you saying left wing progressives are not able to be patriots themselves?
No, not all.
In my opinion the most progressive will see patriotic action and symbolism as extremist views.
You are correct that patriotism and nationalism are very different things, but not really understood as such.
The incident in Bristol is a good example, The statue of Edward Colston was toppled into the water. That led to people protecting other statues around the country, that action was seen as extremists protecting colonial pasts, however the people protecting those statues were protecting the item through patriotic intent and not for the lingering want of returning the country to its colonial past.
These events create more and more divide when bad actors skew the meanings and intentions to drive a wedge through sides. If both sides actually took time to recognise this, we could stand a chance of turning down the dial a little.
I don’t recognise this. Of course there are outliers but I do not agree with such a sweeping statement or conflation. While I certainly do not agree with defacing statues, I do not think protecting these same statues equates to patriotism either. That would imply that it is patriotic to support and celebrate the actions of our past regardless of what they were.
You must ask the patriot, not yourself.
I do not think it is “patriotic” to protect statues. I think it is a civic duty and morally correct to try and prevent vandalism. I don’t see that as patriotism! I certainly do not see that as the preserve of the right.
I certainly do not agree with your opinion that “most progressive will see patriotic action and symbolism as extremist views.” I simply do not recognise that.
In my opinion you are conflating patriotism with nationalism due to the narrative often seemingly to do this. Either that or your example doesn’t quite work to explain the point.
Here’s another example…
If a person flies the Cross of St Andrew on their house, I think most people would see them as a proud Scot and patriot. I believe few people would jump to the conclusion they are a Scottish nationalist wanting independence (they might be but I do not think that would be the first thought).
If a person flies the Cross of St George on their house (at a time when there are not int’l football comps) the first assumption is often they are right wing and nationalist rather than patriotic. That is because the English flag has been appropriated in the past by right wing organisations. However, the person may well just be a proud Englishman regardless of their political leanings.
So assumptions work both ways and I disagree that left wing progressives (a group you talk about a lot) believe patriotism is extreme right wing (some may I guess) but again it is the conflation with nationalism.
Your last example of the George cross supports my thinking perfectly.
Why is it you think that?
While I have seen the Cross of St George appropriated by violent, far right groups, I haven’t seen similar when it comes to the St Andrew’s Cross. When we see images of violence where the Cross of St George is prevalent then it’s only natural that the association with nationalism sticks.
Or d*unken football fans maybe?
There will be right wing fanatics amongst them and left wing fanatics, but these Prejudiced views are driven by left wing progressives, say it enough times and it sticks.
I’m talking about violent protests organised by the likes of tiny Tommy Robinson, the EDL, and their like. While some of these people may well be football fans, that is not the context in which the violence took place.
You are talking about single incidents that are obviously right wing
Yes, which is why the Cross of St George, and to some extent the Union flag, are associated with the far right, and nationalism, by many.
By mainly the left wing who try to make a point that patriotism is extreme and use the example of a right wing group flying a George cross flag when it fits their narrative. No mention of nationalism, either patriot or right wing extremists. As I’ve said patriot has become a dirty word due, when it should be celebrated as a good virtue for the whole of the country."Can you provide an example of where patriotism has been criticised by left wingers as an extreme right wing activity? And if so is it clear they are not conflating patriotism and nationalism? | |||
| |||
"Hey @NotMe you have not answered my question (needy much me )
Q. are you saying left wing progressives are not able to be patriots themselves?
No, not all.
In my opinion the most progressive will see patriotic action and symbolism as extremist views.
You are correct that patriotism and nationalism are very different things, but not really understood as such.
The incident in Bristol is a good example, The statue of Edward Colston was toppled into the water. That led to people protecting other statues around the country, that action was seen as extremists protecting colonial pasts, however the people protecting those statues were protecting the item through patriotic intent and not for the lingering want of returning the country to its colonial past.
These events create more and more divide when bad actors skew the meanings and intentions to drive a wedge through sides. If both sides actually took time to recognise this, we could stand a chance of turning down the dial a little.
I don’t recognise this. Of course there are outliers but I do not agree with such a sweeping statement or conflation. While I certainly do not agree with defacing statues, I do not think protecting these same statues equates to patriotism either. That would imply that it is patriotic to support and celebrate the actions of our past regardless of what they were.
You must ask the patriot, not yourself.
I do not think it is “patriotic” to protect statues. I think it is a civic duty and morally correct to try and prevent vandalism. I don’t see that as patriotism! I certainly do not see that as the preserve of the right.
I certainly do not agree with your opinion that “most progressive will see patriotic action and symbolism as extremist views.” I simply do not recognise that.
In my opinion you are conflating patriotism with nationalism due to the narrative often seemingly to do this. Either that or your example doesn’t quite work to explain the point.
Here’s another example…
If a person flies the Cross of St Andrew on their house, I think most people would see them as a proud Scot and patriot. I believe few people would jump to the conclusion they are a Scottish nationalist wanting independence (they might be but I do not think that would be the first thought).
If a person flies the Cross of St George on their house (at a time when there are not int’l football comps) the first assumption is often they are right wing and nationalist rather than patriotic. That is because the English flag has been appropriated in the past by right wing organisations. However, the person may well just be a proud Englishman regardless of their political leanings.
So assumptions work both ways and I disagree that left wing progressives (a group you talk about a lot) believe patriotism is extreme right wing (some may I guess) but again it is the conflation with nationalism.
Your last example of the George cross supports my thinking perfectly.
Why is it you think that?
While I have seen the Cross of St George appropriated by violent, far right groups, I haven’t seen similar when it comes to the St Andrew’s Cross. When we see images of violence where the Cross of St George is prevalent then it’s only natural that the association with nationalism sticks.
Or d*unken football fans maybe?
There will be right wing fanatics amongst them and left wing fanatics, but these Prejudiced views are driven by left wing progressives, say it enough times and it sticks.
I’m talking about violent protests organised by the likes of tiny Tommy Robinson, the EDL, and their like. While some of these people may well be football fans, that is not the context in which the violence took place.
You are talking about single incidents that are obviously right wing
Yes, which is why the Cross of St George, and to some extent the Union flag, are associated with the far right, and nationalism, by many.
By mainly the left wing who try to make a point that patriotism is extreme and use the example of a right wing group flying a George cross flag when it fits their narrative. No mention of nationalism, either patriot or right wing extremists. As I’ve said patriot has become a dirty word due, when it should be celebrated as a good virtue for the whole of the country.
Can you provide an example of where patriotism has been criticised by left wingers as an extreme right wing activity? And if so is it clear they are not conflating patriotism and nationalism?"I already have, and yes some willl not understand there is a thing called nationalism and others who do and as you say, conflate them, I’m saying some purposefully to amplify their message. Which is where this started with people likening Trump to Hitler, which is exactly the same thing as above. | |||
"Hey @NotMe you have not answered my question (needy much me )
Q. are you saying left wing progressives are not able to be patriots themselves?
No, not all.
In my opinion the most progressive will see patriotic action and symbolism as extremist views.
You are correct that patriotism and nationalism are very different things, but not really understood as such.
The incident in Bristol is a good example, The statue of Edward Colston was toppled into the water. That led to people protecting other statues around the country, that action was seen as extremists protecting colonial pasts, however the people protecting those statues were protecting the item through patriotic intent and not for the lingering want of returning the country to its colonial past.
These events create more and more divide when bad actors skew the meanings and intentions to drive a wedge through sides. If both sides actually took time to recognise this, we could stand a chance of turning down the dial a little.
I don’t recognise this. Of course there are outliers but I do not agree with such a sweeping statement or conflation. While I certainly do not agree with defacing statues, I do not think protecting these same statues equates to patriotism either. That would imply that it is patriotic to support and celebrate the actions of our past regardless of what they were.
You must ask the patriot, not yourself.
I do not think it is “patriotic” to protect statues. I think it is a civic duty and morally correct to try and prevent vandalism. I don’t see that as patriotism! I certainly do not see that as the preserve of the right.
I certainly do not agree with your opinion that “most progressive will see patriotic action and symbolism as extremist views.” I simply do not recognise that.
In my opinion you are conflating patriotism with nationalism due to the narrative often seemingly to do this. Either that or your example doesn’t quite work to explain the point.
Here’s another example…
If a person flies the Cross of St Andrew on their house, I think most people would see them as a proud Scot and patriot. I believe few people would jump to the conclusion they are a Scottish nationalist wanting independence (they might be but I do not think that would be the first thought).
If a person flies the Cross of St George on their house (at a time when there are not int’l football comps) the first assumption is often they are right wing and nationalist rather than patriotic. That is because the English flag has been appropriated in the past by right wing organisations. However, the person may well just be a proud Englishman regardless of their political leanings.
So assumptions work both ways and I disagree that left wing progressives (a group you talk about a lot) believe patriotism is extreme right wing (some may I guess) but again it is the conflation with nationalism.
Your last example of the George cross supports my thinking perfectly.
Why is it you think that?
While I have seen the Cross of St George appropriated by violent, far right groups, I haven’t seen similar when it comes to the St Andrew’s Cross. When we see images of violence where the Cross of St George is prevalent then it’s only natural that the association with nationalism sticks.
Or d*unken football fans maybe?
There will be right wing fanatics amongst them and left wing fanatics, but these Prejudiced views are driven by left wing progressives, say it enough times and it sticks.
I’m talking about violent protests organised by the likes of tiny Tommy Robinson, the EDL, and their like. While some of these people may well be football fans, that is not the context in which the violence took place.
You are talking about single incidents that are obviously right wing
Yes, which is why the Cross of St George, and to some extent the Union flag, are associated with the far right, and nationalism, by many.
By mainly the left wing who try to make a point that patriotism is extreme and use the example of a right wing group flying a George cross flag when it fits their narrative. No mention of nationalism, either patriot or right wing extremists. As I’ve said patriot has become a dirty word due, when it should be celebrated as a good virtue for the whole of the country.
Can you provide an example of where patriotism has been criticised by left wingers as an extreme right wing activity? And if so is it clear they are not conflating patriotism and nationalism?
I already have, and yes some willl not understand there is a thing called nationalism and others who do and as you say, conflate them, I’m saying some purposefully to amplify their message.
Which is where this started with people likening Trump to Hitler, which is exactly the same thing as above.
"All in all it doesn’t really matter so I’ll drop this now. However, agree that likening Trump to Hitler is just silly at best and downright insulting to all those who dies as a result of Hitler’s actions at worst! | |||
"Hey @NotMe you have not answered my question (needy much me )
Q. are you saying left wing progressives are not able to be patriots themselves?
No, not all.
In my opinion the most progressive will see patriotic action and symbolism as extremist views.
You are correct that patriotism and nationalism are very different things, but not really understood as such.
The incident in Bristol is a good example, The statue of Edward Colston was toppled into the water. That led to people protecting other statues around the country, that action was seen as extremists protecting colonial pasts, however the people protecting those statues were protecting the item through patriotic intent and not for the lingering want of returning the country to its colonial past.
These events create more and more divide when bad actors skew the meanings and intentions to drive a wedge through sides. If both sides actually took time to recognise this, we could stand a chance of turning down the dial a little.
I don’t recognise this. Of course there are outliers but I do not agree with such a sweeping statement or conflation. While I certainly do not agree with defacing statues, I do not think protecting these same statues equates to patriotism either. That would imply that it is patriotic to support and celebrate the actions of our past regardless of what they were.
You must ask the patriot, not yourself.
I do not think it is “patriotic” to protect statues. I think it is a civic duty and morally correct to try and prevent vandalism. I don’t see that as patriotism! I certainly do not see that as the preserve of the right.
I certainly do not agree with your opinion that “most progressive will see patriotic action and symbolism as extremist views.” I simply do not recognise that.
In my opinion you are conflating patriotism with nationalism due to the narrative often seemingly to do this. Either that or your example doesn’t quite work to explain the point.
Here’s another example…
If a person flies the Cross of St Andrew on their house, I think most people would see them as a proud Scot and patriot. I believe few people would jump to the conclusion they are a Scottish nationalist wanting independence (they might be but I do not think that would be the first thought).
If a person flies the Cross of St George on their house (at a time when there are not int’l football comps) the first assumption is often they are right wing and nationalist rather than patriotic. That is because the English flag has been appropriated in the past by right wing organisations. However, the person may well just be a proud Englishman regardless of their political leanings.
So assumptions work both ways and I disagree that left wing progressives (a group you talk about a lot) believe patriotism is extreme right wing (some may I guess) but again it is the conflation with nationalism.
Your last example of the George cross supports my thinking perfectly.
Why is it you think that?
While I have seen the Cross of St George appropriated by violent, far right groups, I haven’t seen similar when it comes to the St Andrew’s Cross. When we see images of violence where the Cross of St George is prevalent then it’s only natural that the association with nationalism sticks.
Or d*unken football fans maybe?
There will be right wing fanatics amongst them and left wing fanatics, but these Prejudiced views are driven by left wing progressives, say it enough times and it sticks.
I’m talking about violent protests organised by the likes of tiny Tommy Robinson, the EDL, and their like. While some of these people may well be football fans, that is not the context in which the violence took place.
You are talking about single incidents that are obviously right wing
Yes, which is why the Cross of St George, and to some extent the Union flag, are associated with the far right, and nationalism, by many.
By mainly the left wing who try to make a point that patriotism is extreme and use the example of a right wing group flying a George cross flag when it fits their narrative. No mention of nationalism, either patriot or right wing extremists. As I’ve said patriot has become a dirty word due, when it should be celebrated as a good virtue for the whole of the country.
Can you provide an example of where patriotism has been criticised by left wingers as an extreme right wing activity? And if so is it clear they are not conflating patriotism and nationalism?
I already have, and yes some willl not understand there is a thing called nationalism and others who do and as you say, conflate them, I’m saying some purposefully to amplify their message.
Which is where this started with people likening Trump to Hitler, which is exactly the same thing as above.
All in all it doesn’t really matter so I’ll drop this now.
However, agree that likening Trump to Hitler is just silly at best and downright insulting to all those who dies as a result of Hitler’s actions at worst!"It was Vance who compared Trump to Hitler. It's ridiculous. | |||
"Hey @NotMe you have not answered my question (needy much me )
Q. are you saying left wing progressives are not able to be patriots themselves?
No, not all.
In my opinion the most progressive will see patriotic action and symbolism as extremist views.
You are correct that patriotism and nationalism are very different things, but not really understood as such.
The incident in Bristol is a good example, The statue of Edward Colston was toppled into the water. That led to people protecting other statues around the country, that action was seen as extremists protecting colonial pasts, however the people protecting those statues were protecting the item through patriotic intent and not for the lingering want of returning the country to its colonial past.
These events create more and more divide when bad actors skew the meanings and intentions to drive a wedge through sides. If both sides actually took time to recognise this, we could stand a chance of turning down the dial a little.
I don’t recognise this. Of course there are outliers but I do not agree with such a sweeping statement or conflation. While I certainly do not agree with defacing statues, I do not think protecting these same statues equates to patriotism either. That would imply that it is patriotic to support and celebrate the actions of our past regardless of what they were.
You must ask the patriot, not yourself.
I do not think it is “patriotic” to protect statues. I think it is a civic duty and morally correct to try and prevent vandalism. I don’t see that as patriotism! I certainly do not see that as the preserve of the right.
I certainly do not agree with your opinion that “most progressive will see patriotic action and symbolism as extremist views.” I simply do not recognise that.
In my opinion you are conflating patriotism with nationalism due to the narrative often seemingly to do this. Either that or your example doesn’t quite work to explain the point.
Here’s another example…
If a person flies the Cross of St Andrew on their house, I think most people would see them as a proud Scot and patriot. I believe few people would jump to the conclusion they are a Scottish nationalist wanting independence (they might be but I do not think that would be the first thought).
If a person flies the Cross of St George on their house (at a time when there are not int’l football comps) the first assumption is often they are right wing and nationalist rather than patriotic. That is because the English flag has been appropriated in the past by right wing organisations. However, the person may well just be a proud Englishman regardless of their political leanings.
So assumptions work both ways and I disagree that left wing progressives (a group you talk about a lot) believe patriotism is extreme right wing (some may I guess) but again it is the conflation with nationalism.
Your last example of the George cross supports my thinking perfectly.
Why is it you think that?
While I have seen the Cross of St George appropriated by violent, far right groups, I haven’t seen similar when it comes to the St Andrew’s Cross. When we see images of violence where the Cross of St George is prevalent then it’s only natural that the association with nationalism sticks.
Or d*unken football fans maybe?
There will be right wing fanatics amongst them and left wing fanatics, but these Prejudiced views are driven by left wing progressives, say it enough times and it sticks.
I’m talking about violent protests organised by the likes of tiny Tommy Robinson, the EDL, and their like. While some of these people may well be football fans, that is not the context in which the violence took place.
You are talking about single incidents that are obviously right wing
Yes, which is why the Cross of St George, and to some extent the Union flag, are associated with the far right, and nationalism, by many.
By mainly the left wing who try to make a point that patriotism is extreme and use the example of a right wing group flying a George cross flag when it fits their narrative. No mention of nationalism, either patriot or right wing extremists. As I’ve said patriot has become a dirty word due, when it should be celebrated as a good virtue for the whole of the country.
Can you provide an example of where patriotism has been criticised by left wingers as an extreme right wing activity? And if so is it clear they are not conflating patriotism and nationalism?
I already have, and yes some willl not understand there is a thing called nationalism and others who do and as you say, conflate them, I’m saying some purposefully to amplify their message.
Which is where this started with people likening Trump to Hitler, which is exactly the same thing as above.
All in all it doesn’t really matter so I’ll drop this now.
However, agree that likening Trump to Hitler is just silly at best and downright insulting to all those who dies as a result of Hitler’s actions at worst!
It was Vance who compared Trump to Hitler.
It's ridiculous. "It isn't just Vance, it is a lot of people and, it has also happens to Farage, Braverman, patel et al. | |||
"Hey @NotMe you have not answered my question (needy much me )
Q. are you saying left wing progressives are not able to be patriots themselves?
No, not all.
In my opinion the most progressive will see patriotic action and symbolism as extremist views.
You are correct that patriotism and nationalism are very different things, but not really understood as such.
The incident in Bristol is a good example, The statue of Edward Colston was toppled into the water. That led to people protecting other statues around the country, that action was seen as extremists protecting colonial pasts, however the people protecting those statues were protecting the item through patriotic intent and not for the lingering want of returning the country to its colonial past.
These events create more and more divide when bad actors skew the meanings and intentions to drive a wedge through sides. If both sides actually took time to recognise this, we could stand a chance of turning down the dial a little.
I don’t recognise this. Of course there are outliers but I do not agree with such a sweeping statement or conflation. While I certainly do not agree with defacing statues, I do not think protecting these same statues equates to patriotism either. That would imply that it is patriotic to support and celebrate the actions of our past regardless of what they were.
You must ask the patriot, not yourself.
I do not think it is “patriotic” to protect statues. I think it is a civic duty and morally correct to try and prevent vandalism. I don’t see that as patriotism! I certainly do not see that as the preserve of the right.
I certainly do not agree with your opinion that “most progressive will see patriotic action and symbolism as extremist views.” I simply do not recognise that.
In my opinion you are conflating patriotism with nationalism due to the narrative often seemingly to do this. Either that or your example doesn’t quite work to explain the point.
Here’s another example…
If a person flies the Cross of St Andrew on their house, I think most people would see them as a proud Scot and patriot. I believe few people would jump to the conclusion they are a Scottish nationalist wanting independence (they might be but I do not think that would be the first thought).
If a person flies the Cross of St George on their house (at a time when there are not int’l football comps) the first assumption is often they are right wing and nationalist rather than patriotic. That is because the English flag has been appropriated in the past by right wing organisations. However, the person may well just be a proud Englishman regardless of their political leanings.
So assumptions work both ways and I disagree that left wing progressives (a group you talk about a lot) believe patriotism is extreme right wing (some may I guess) but again it is the conflation with nationalism.
Your last example of the George cross supports my thinking perfectly.
Why is it you think that?
While I have seen the Cross of St George appropriated by violent, far right groups, I haven’t seen similar when it comes to the St Andrew’s Cross. When we see images of violence where the Cross of St George is prevalent then it’s only natural that the association with nationalism sticks.
Or d*unken football fans maybe?
There will be right wing fanatics amongst them and left wing fanatics, but these Prejudiced views are driven by left wing progressives, say it enough times and it sticks.
I’m talking about violent protests organised by the likes of tiny Tommy Robinson, the EDL, and their like. While some of these people may well be football fans, that is not the context in which the violence took place.
You are talking about single incidents that are obviously right wing
Yes, which is why the Cross of St George, and to some extent the Union flag, are associated with the far right, and nationalism, by many.
By mainly the left wing who try to make a point that patriotism is extreme and use the example of a right wing group flying a George cross flag when it fits their narrative. No mention of nationalism, either patriot or right wing extremists. As I’ve said patriot has become a dirty word due, when it should be celebrated as a good virtue for the whole of the country.
Can you provide an example of where patriotism has been criticised by left wingers as an extreme right wing activity? And if so is it clear they are not conflating patriotism and nationalism?
I already have, and yes some willl not understand there is a thing called nationalism and others who do and as you say, conflate them, I’m saying some purposefully to amplify their message.
Which is where this started with people likening Trump to Hitler, which is exactly the same thing as above.
All in all it doesn’t really matter so I’ll drop this now.
However, agree that likening Trump to Hitler is just silly at best and downright insulting to all those who dies as a result of Hitler’s actions at worst!" | |||
"Hey @NotMe you have not answered my question (needy much me )
Q. are you saying left wing progressives are not able to be patriots themselves?
No, not all.
In my opinion the most progressive will see patriotic action and symbolism as extremist views.
You are correct that patriotism and nationalism are very different things, but not really understood as such.
The incident in Bristol is a good example, The statue of Edward Colston was toppled into the water. That led to people protecting other statues around the country, that action was seen as extremists protecting colonial pasts, however the people protecting those statues were protecting the item through patriotic intent and not for the lingering want of returning the country to its colonial past.
These events create more and more divide when bad actors skew the meanings and intentions to drive a wedge through sides. If both sides actually took time to recognise this, we could stand a chance of turning down the dial a little.
I don’t recognise this. Of course there are outliers but I do not agree with such a sweeping statement or conflation. While I certainly do not agree with defacing statues, I do not think protecting these same statues equates to patriotism either. That would imply that it is patriotic to support and celebrate the actions of our past regardless of what they were.
You must ask the patriot, not yourself.
I do not think it is “patriotic” to protect statues. I think it is a civic duty and morally correct to try and prevent vandalism. I don’t see that as patriotism! I certainly do not see that as the preserve of the right.
I certainly do not agree with your opinion that “most progressive will see patriotic action and symbolism as extremist views.” I simply do not recognise that.
In my opinion you are conflating patriotism with nationalism due to the narrative often seemingly to do this. Either that or your example doesn’t quite work to explain the point.
Here’s another example…
If a person flies the Cross of St Andrew on their house, I think most people would see them as a proud Scot and patriot. I believe few people would jump to the conclusion they are a Scottish nationalist wanting independence (they might be but I do not think that would be the first thought).
If a person flies the Cross of St George on their house (at a time when there are not int’l football comps) the first assumption is often they are right wing and nationalist rather than patriotic. That is because the English flag has been appropriated in the past by right wing organisations. However, the person may well just be a proud Englishman regardless of their political leanings.
So assumptions work both ways and I disagree that left wing progressives (a group you talk about a lot) believe patriotism is extreme right wing (some may I guess) but again it is the conflation with nationalism.
Your last example of the George cross supports my thinking perfectly.
Why is it you think that?
While I have seen the Cross of St George appropriated by violent, far right groups, I haven’t seen similar when it comes to the St Andrew’s Cross. When we see images of violence where the Cross of St George is prevalent then it’s only natural that the association with nationalism sticks.
Or d*unken football fans maybe?
There will be right wing fanatics amongst them and left wing fanatics, but these Prejudiced views are driven by left wing progressives, say it enough times and it sticks.
I’m talking about violent protests organised by the likes of tiny Tommy Robinson, the EDL, and their like. While some of these people may well be football fans, that is not the context in which the violence took place.
You are talking about single incidents that are obviously right wing
Yes, which is why the Cross of St George, and to some extent the Union flag, are associated with the far right, and nationalism, by many.
By mainly the left wing who try to make a point that patriotism is extreme and use the example of a right wing group flying a George cross flag when it fits their narrative. No mention of nationalism, either patriot or right wing extremists. As I’ve said patriot has become a dirty word due, when it should be celebrated as a good virtue for the whole of the country.
Can you provide an example of where patriotism has been criticised by left wingers as an extreme right wing activity? And if so is it clear they are not conflating patriotism and nationalism?
I already have, and yes some willl not understand there is a thing called nationalism and others who do and as you say, conflate them, I’m saying some purposefully to amplify their message.
Which is where this started with people likening Trump to Hitler, which is exactly the same thing as above.
All in all it doesn’t really matter so I’ll drop this now.
However, agree that likening Trump to Hitler is just silly at best and downright insulting to all those who dies as a result of Hitler’s actions at worst!
It was Vance who compared Trump to Hitler.
It's ridiculous.
It isn't just Vance, it is a lot of people and, it has also happens to Farage, Braverman, patel et al.
"All horrendous people, but not comparable to Hitler. | |||
| |||
| |||
"Watch him being interviewed by Jon Stewart and see how much of a cretin the man is. He was and still is not up to the job" so a perfect politicisn then | |||
"Hey @NotMe you have not answered my question (needy much me )
Q. are you saying left wing progressives are not able to be patriots themselves?
No, not all.
In my opinion the most progressive will see patriotic action and symbolism as extremist views.
You are correct that patriotism and nationalism are very different things, but not really understood as such.
The incident in Bristol is a good example, The statue of Edward Colston was toppled into the water. That led to people protecting other statues around the country, that action was seen as extremists protecting colonial pasts, however the people protecting those statues were protecting the item through patriotic intent and not for the lingering want of returning the country to its colonial past.
These events create more and more divide when bad actors skew the meanings and intentions to drive a wedge through sides. If both sides actually took time to recognise this, we could stand a chance of turning down the dial a little.
I don’t recognise this. Of course there are outliers but I do not agree with such a sweeping statement or conflation. While I certainly do not agree with defacing statues, I do not think protecting these same statues equates to patriotism either. That would imply that it is patriotic to support and celebrate the actions of our past regardless of what they were.
You must ask the patriot, not yourself.
I do not think it is “patriotic” to protect statues. I think it is a civic duty and morally correct to try and prevent vandalism. I don’t see that as patriotism! I certainly do not see that as the preserve of the right.
I certainly do not agree with your opinion that “most progressive will see patriotic action and symbolism as extremist views.” I simply do not recognise that.
In my opinion you are conflating patriotism with nationalism due to the narrative often seemingly to do this. Either that or your example doesn’t quite work to explain the point.
Here’s another example…
If a person flies the Cross of St Andrew on their house, I think most people would see them as a proud Scot and patriot. I believe few people would jump to the conclusion they are a Scottish nationalist wanting independence (they might be but I do not think that would be the first thought).
If a person flies the Cross of St George on their house (at a time when there are not int’l football comps) the first assumption is often they are right wing and nationalist rather than patriotic. That is because the English flag has been appropriated in the past by right wing organisations. However, the person may well just be a proud Englishman regardless of their political leanings.
So assumptions work both ways and I disagree that left wing progressives (a group you talk about a lot) believe patriotism is extreme right wing (some may I guess) but again it is the conflation with nationalism.
Your last example of the George cross supports my thinking perfectly.
Why is it you think that?
While I have seen the Cross of St George appropriated by violent, far right groups, I haven’t seen similar when it comes to the St Andrew’s Cross. When we see images of violence where the Cross of St George is prevalent then it’s only natural that the association with nationalism sticks.
Or d*unken football fans maybe?
There will be right wing fanatics amongst them and left wing fanatics, but these Prejudiced views are driven by left wing progressives, say it enough times and it sticks.
I’m talking about violent protests organised by the likes of tiny Tommy Robinson, the EDL, and their like. While some of these people may well be football fans, that is not the context in which the violence took place.
You are talking about single incidents that are obviously right wing
Yes, which is why the Cross of St George, and to some extent the Union flag, are associated with the far right, and nationalism, by many.
By mainly the left wing who try to make a point that patriotism is extreme and use the example of a right wing group flying a George cross flag when it fits their narrative. No mention of nationalism, either patriot or right wing extremists. As I’ve said patriot has become a dirty word due, when it should be celebrated as a good virtue for the whole of the country.
Can you provide an example of where patriotism has been criticised by left wingers as an extreme right wing activity? And if so is it clear they are not conflating patriotism and nationalism?
I already have, and yes some willl not understand there is a thing called nationalism and others who do and as you say, conflate them, I’m saying some purposefully to amplify their message.
Which is where this started with people likening Trump to Hitler, which is exactly the same thing as above.
All in all it doesn’t really matter so I’ll drop this now.
However, agree that likening Trump to Hitler is just silly at best and downright insulting to all those who dies as a result of Hitler’s actions at worst!
It was Vance who compared Trump to Hitler.
It's ridiculous.
It isn't just Vance, it is a lot of people and, it has also happens to Farage, Braverman, patel et al.
"It’s certainly the case that both farage and Braverman are happy to flirt with nationalism to further there political ambitions whereas it seems to me that Patel was just at the more unpleasant end of Tory policies rather than wrapping herself in the flag of choice. As for Trump and his lies, it’s fairly easy to see that he is a habitual liar and that the easy bravado with which he trots out his fabrications is part and parcel of how he sells himself, his brand and his merchandise to the American people. He is an old fashioned snake oil salesman who dearly wants to be emperor of the USA and to be honest I can’t see much stopping that from happening and I think an awful lot of Americans would like being led by this “strong” man! As for it all being the fault of lefties and the progressive elite that nationalism and patriotism are confused…. I think that particular responsibility lies more with the publishers of the Daily Mail, Daily Express and The Sun rather than themselves. | |||
| |||
"“ childless cat ladies “ So anyone on the trump side care to defend? " Probably not but that's US politics for you. I've a good friend from the States voting trump for one reason. What his VP says isn't going to change that | |||
"“ childless cat ladies “ So anyone on the trump side care to defend? " Seems a pretty accurate summary. I doubt whether any Trump voters will disagree with his assessment of the situation, and Democrats will probably feign outrage at whatever he says. | |||
"“ childless cat ladies “ So anyone on the trump side care to defend? Seems a pretty accurate summary. I doubt whether any Trump voters will disagree with his assessment of the situation, and Democrats will probably feign outrage at whatever he says. " How has a woman's child-related status in any way relevant to their ability to lead? | |||
| |||
"Does she have children, have cats? Honestly don't know ... easy guide if the statement is true or not" Eh? | |||
"“ childless cat ladies “ So anyone on the trump side care to defend? Seems a pretty accurate summary. I doubt whether any Trump voters will disagree with his assessment of the situation, and Democrats will probably feign outrage at whatever he says. How has a woman's child-related status in any way relevant to their ability to lead? " Maybe he has noticed a pattern. I’m not that up on US government employee statistics. I assume he has more experience of it. | |||
"“ childless cat ladies “ So anyone on the trump side care to defend? " There are a whole bunch of people on here who mildly dislike "breeders" for the carbon footprint of children and the overpopulation of the world... Who think that they should be taxed higher... | |||
"“ childless cat ladies “ So anyone on the trump side care to defend? Seems a pretty accurate summary. I doubt whether any Trump voters will disagree with his assessment of the situation, and Democrats will probably feign outrage at whatever he says. How has a woman's child-related status in any way relevant to their ability to lead? Maybe he has noticed a pattern. I’m not that up on US government employee statistics. I assume he has more experience of it." A pattern of what, exactly? | |||
| |||
"“ childless cat ladies “ So anyone on the trump side care to defend? Seems a pretty accurate summary. I doubt whether any Trump voters will disagree with his assessment of the situation, and Democrats will probably feign outrage at whatever he says. How has a woman's child-related status in any way relevant to their ability to lead? Maybe he has noticed a pattern. I’m not that up on US government employee statistics. I assume he has more experience of it. A pattern of what, exactly? " Joke of the day: Kamala: “I’ve shagged a Brazilian”! AOC: “Haha great! How many is a Brazilian”? | |||
"“ childless cat ladies “ So anyone on the trump side care to defend? Seems a pretty accurate summary. I doubt whether any Trump voters will disagree with his assessment of the situation, and Democrats will probably feign outrage at whatever he says. How has a woman's child-related status in any way relevant to their ability to lead? Maybe he has noticed a pattern. I’m not that up on US government employee statistics. I assume he has more experience of it. A pattern of what, exactly? Joke of the day: Kamala: “I’ve shagged a Brazilian”! AOC: “Haha great! How many is a Brazilian”?" Is that supposed to be funny? | |||
| |||
"So… do we mention the… “JD Vance fucking a couch” story…. It brilliantly wild… "Not sure Democrats want to start talking about the sleazy past of other parties’ candidates. Or “democracy” for that matter…. | |||
"So… do we mention the… “JD Vance fucking a couch” story…. It brilliantly wild… "You mean the one that was fact checked and found to be false? | |||
"So… do we mention the… “JD Vance fucking a couch” story…. It brilliantly wild…
You mean the one that was fact checked and found to be false?"Of course it’s false but it’s still his David Cameron pig fucker moment. | |||
"So… do we mention the… “JD Vance fucking a couch” story…. It brilliantly wild…
You mean the one that was fact checked and found to be false?
Of course it’s false but it’s still his David Cameron pig fucker moment."Which was also false. | |||
"So… do we mention the… “JD Vance fucking a couch” story…. It brilliantly wild…
You mean the one that was fact checked and found to be false?
Of course it’s false but it’s still his David Cameron pig fucker moment.
Which was also false. "Yep but he’s still pig fucker Cameron, and it’s going to forever be JD couch fucker Vance. | |||
"So… do we mention the… “JD Vance fucking a couch” story…. It brilliantly wild…
You mean the one that was fact checked and found to be false?
Of course it’s false but it’s still his David Cameron pig fucker moment.
Which was also false.
Yep but he’s still pig fucker Cameron, and it’s going to forever be JD couch fucker Vance."Is he? Maybe amongst Labour supporters, but they're not exactly known for telling the truth. | |||
"So… do we mention the… “JD Vance fucking a couch” story…. It brilliantly wild…
You mean the one that was fact checked and found to be false?
Of course it’s false but it’s still his David Cameron pig fucker moment.
Which was also false.
Yep but he’s still pig fucker Cameron, and it’s going to forever be JD couch fucker Vance.
Is he?
Maybe amongst Labour supporters, but they're not exactly known for telling the truth. "It’s not about the truth, it’s about what he’s famous for, ruining the country and fucking pigs. That only one of those things is true is neither here nor there. | |||
"So… do we mention the… “JD Vance fucking a couch” story…. It brilliantly wild…
You mean the one that was fact checked and found to be false?
Of course it’s false but it’s still his David Cameron pig fucker moment.
Which was also false.
Yep but he’s still pig fucker Cameron, and it’s going to forever be JD couch fucker Vance.
Is he?
Maybe amongst Labour supporters, but they're not exactly known for telling the truth.
It’s not about the truth, it’s about what he’s famous for, ruining the country and fucking pigs. That only one of those things is true is neither here nor there."What you're telling us is the left don't give a fuck about the truth. That's not anything we don't already know. | |||
"So… do we mention the… “JD Vance fucking a couch” story…. It brilliantly wild…
You mean the one that was fact checked and found to be false?
Of course it’s false but it’s still his David Cameron pig fucker moment.
Which was also false.
Yep but he’s still pig fucker Cameron, and it’s going to forever be JD couch fucker Vance.
Is he?
Maybe amongst Labour supporters, but they're not exactly known for telling the truth.
It’s not about the truth, it’s about what he’s famous for, ruining the country and fucking pigs. That only one of those things is true is neither here nor there.
What you're telling us is the left don't give a fuck about the truth. That's not anything we don't already know."I think everyone knows it’s not true but he is forever tainted with it, he’s pig fucker Cameron. | |||
"So… do we mention the… “JD Vance fucking a couch” story…. It brilliantly wild…
You mean the one that was fact checked and found to be false?
Of course it’s false but it’s still his David Cameron pig fucker moment.
Which was also false.
Yep but he’s still pig fucker Cameron, and it’s going to forever be JD couch fucker Vance.
Is he?
Maybe amongst Labour supporters, but they're not exactly known for telling the truth.
It’s not about the truth, it’s about what he’s famous for, ruining the country and fucking pigs. That only one of those things is true is neither here nor there.
What you're telling us is the left don't give a fuck about the truth. That's not anything we don't already know."wasn't the pig fucker story *broken* by oakenshott? | |||
"So… do we mention the… “JD Vance fucking a couch” story…. It brilliantly wild…
You mean the one that was fact checked and found to be false?
Of course it’s false but it’s still his David Cameron pig fucker moment.
Which was also false.
Yep but he’s still pig fucker Cameron, and it’s going to forever be JD couch fucker Vance.
Is he?
Maybe amongst Labour supporters, but they're not exactly known for telling the truth. "Couldn't give a fuck if Labour supporters are honest or not, as long as the Labour govt is. Unlike the Tory govt. | |||
| |||
| |||
"JD Vance will soon be old news Harris is gaining every day and she has barely started. " Trump's allies don't usually last long. They usually get thrown under bus at the earliest opportunity. | |||
"If Trump wins Biden can go again in 2028 He will be dead by then, dementia patients don’t last very long. What a stupid thing to say." "Stupid is as stupid does" (Forest Gump 1994) | |||
"JD Vance will soon be old news Harris is gaining every day and she has barely started. " JD Vance won’t be old news if instead of apologising for the “childless cat ladies” instead now the excuse was he was being sarcastic and doubles down on what he was saying…. He is working like a double agent at the moment and cannot get out of his own way! | |||
 | |||
"JD Vance will soon be old news Harris is gaining every day and she has barely started. JD Vance won’t be old news if instead of apologising for the “childless cat ladies” instead now the excuse was he was being sarcastic and doubles down on what he was saying…. He is working like a double agent at the moment and cannot get out of his own way!" Does anyone who thinks it's a good idea to vote for Trump care about stuff like this though? Trump has said and done much worse, and they either don't care or they think he's been setup/wrongfully charged/the real victim | |||
| |||
"JD is really…. Really doubling down Over the weekend at an event he was suggesting that people with kids should have more of a say about the future and their vote should mean more, as people with kids “have more invested in the future “ than those people without…… It’s like he is really trying hard to be replaced……" I know nothing about JD Vance, and I disagree that those with children should be given more of a say in society. But why do you think that him saying those things would make him unelectable? | |||
"JD is really…. Really doubling down Over the weekend at an event he was suggesting that people with kids should have more of a say about the future and their vote should mean more, as people with kids “have more invested in the future “ than those people without…… It’s like he is really trying hard to be replaced…… I know nothing about JD Vance, and I disagree that those with children should be given more of a say in society. But why do you think that him saying those things would make him unelectable?" I too am interested in the answer to this question. | |||
"JD is really…. Really doubling down Over the weekend at an event he was suggesting that people with kids should have more of a say about the future and their vote should mean more, as people with kids “have more invested in the future “ than those people without…… It’s like he is really trying hard to be replaced……" Indeed, he is fanning some seriously twisted ideas there. . There are certain groups who are child-free by choice (and/or by misfortune) who could be said to have done more by not contributing to over-population and resource consumption. Leaving more for those with children. So going after them seems a bit strange to say the least. | |||
