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Antisemitism part 2
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"A bonkers question asked by poster asking why others don't regard the IHRA Working Definition of Antisemitism. I read the definitions and though some I agree with, though already covered by UK law, there are other clauses that give carte Blanche for Isreal to continue being a racist apartheid state, and also employ similar strategies to the Nazis without repercussions. It not only facilitates the continuation of the persecution of Palestinians in a conflict that also gets Isrealis killed, the Zionist project is also a pivotal cause of conflict expanding in the entire region, dragging other countries into the conflict. That's why I find some of the examples a dangerous , heavily biased and irresponsible, dishonest attempt to favour criminal acts, just like the guy who posed the question in the first place. " Just to add.. the person who also describes the mindless massacre of civilians in Gaza as a case of "wash rinse repeat" says it all about his mindset. | |||
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"I read the definitions and though some I agree with" When you say you only agree with some of it, it sounds like an "I'm not racist but... " excuse. It's not up to you to define what antisemitism is. | |||
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"the person who also describes the mindless massacre of civilians in Gaza as a case of "wash rinse repeat" says it all about his mindset. " I describe the general Arab obsession as 'wash, rinse, repeat'. Every war in Israel was started by Arabs, and they lost every war too - and then used that loss to proclaim eternal victimhood. If you want peace, then don't start wars. However, this subject is about antisemitism, and the obsessive focus on Israel (to the exclusion of other conflicts) is part of that. | |||
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"Oh and I’m not blaming the Jewish race, or even Israeli people in general. " So why are you posting it in a thread about antisemitism? | |||
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"Because I didn’t want to start another thread about it: I also want to know if, you in particular, would try to defend Netanyahu, for something I personally find horrific!" Associating the actions of Netanyahu or the Israeli government with Jews in general is part of the problem that has caused the increase in antisemitic attacks worldwide. | |||
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"Because I didn’t want to start another thread about it: I also want to know if, you in particular, would try to defend Netanyahu, for something I personally find horrific! Associating the actions of Netanyahu or the Israeli government with Jews in general is part of the problem that has caused the increase in antisemitic attacks worldwide." So to be clear, you are not condoning this? The man is evil, and is dragging Israel as a nation through the mud. | |||
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" So to be clear, you are not condoning this? The man is evil, and is dragging Israel as a nation through the mud." While I support the existence and need for the Jewish state, and their right do defend themselves and remove the Hamas threat, I do not think Jews in this or other countries should be held to account for the decisions of that country, or be pressured into holding any opinion at all - which is what seems to be happening. | |||
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" So to be clear, you are not condoning this? The man is evil, and is dragging Israel as a nation through the mud. While I support the existence and need for the Jewish state, and their right do defend themselves and remove the Hamas threat, I do not think Jews in this or other countries should be held to account for the decisions of that country, or be pressured into holding any opinion at all - which is what seems to be happening." Whilst blaming individual Jews for Israeli leaders’ actions is clearly wrong, I have a feeling this is not entirely genuine. First, though you say it’s acceptable to criticise Jewish leaders, one hears very little of that in Jewish circles; secondly, when that criticism reaches a certain level, it’s swiftly condemned as antisemitic, even if it doesn’t question Israel’s right to exist; third, in practice it’s clear that a disproportionate share of Jews support Israel to some degree - either outright support or reluctance to criticise. It’s therefore not surprising that antisemitism is rising. I also wanted to address the final post or two in your previous thread - it was suggested that being against the concept of the state of Israel would be disastrous for the Jews in the area. But no one’s suggesting they’d have to leave; the country could be redefined as a strictly secular country where every nation is equal, like in the UK. That would require major change in Israel’s constitutional set up (and I know it doesn’t have a written constitution), but need not spell the end of the place as a homeland for Jewish people. And it would be a lot fairer for the over 50% of inhabitants who are not Jewish. | |||
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"But no one’s suggesting they’d have to leave; the country could be redefined as a strictly secular country where every nation is equal, like in the UK. That would require major change in Israel’s constitutional set up (and I know it doesn’t have a written constitution), but need not spell the end of the place as a homeland for Jewish people. And it would be a lot fairer for the over 50% of inhabitants who are not Jewish. " That's a very interesting idea. How would it work in practice? | |||
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"But no one’s suggesting they’d have to leave; the country could be redefined as a strictly secular country where every nation is equal, like in the UK. That would require major change in Israel’s constitutional set up (and I know it doesn’t have a written constitution), but need not spell the end of the place as a homeland for Jewish people. And it would be a lot fairer for the over 50% of inhabitants who are not Jewish. That's a very interesting idea. How would it work in practice?" Why thank you (and it was your last post I was thinking of). I don’t know precisely… I also feel that as I’m not there, it’s arrogant of me to think I can prescribe things for Israelis and Palestinians. But simplistically, they’d get rid of all laws that differentiate between different nations. For example, it would no longer give all Jews around the world an unfettered right to return, whilst precluding Palestinians. I think it would also have to make Arabic an official language again (as it was until 2018) and the country’s name would probably have to change to something like Israel-Palestine. It’s the one-state solution - there is stuff written on it. | |||
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"Because I didn’t want to start another thread about it: I also want to know if, you in particular, would try to defend Netanyahu, for something I personally find horrific! Associating the actions of Netanyahu or the Israeli government with Jews in general is part of the problem that has caused the increase in antisemitic attacks worldwide. So to be clear, you are not condoning this? The man is evil, and is dragging Israel as a nation through the mud." On a thread entitled "antisemitism", it's very noticeable that you seemingly demand that this poster condemns Israel, but no condemnation from you about Hamas using the school as a base to plan more attacks, whilst hiding behind civilians. Both these "facts" are in the news articles, but you only concentrate on Israel's role. As I said, a very noticeable bias, on a thread about antisemitism.  | |||
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" need not spell the end of the place as a homeland for Jewish people. And it would be a lot fairer for the over 50% of inhabitants who are not Jewish. " Thsi is typical idealism - the problem started because, under Islamic law, Jews and Christians are considered 'dhimmi' and therefore have to live as tolerated 'people of the book', subject to different (higher) tax rules with different rights and more restrictions. In some Muslim regions, the dhimmi who couldn't pay the Jizya tax had their children taken into sIavery and (for boys) castrated. In more recent times (1917 onwards), certain leaders (like Haj Amin Al Husseini) got scared about Jews having too many rights and too much power, and thus started to incite violence. Deal with the historic antisemitism within Arabic Islam, and you may get somewhere, but that is incredibly unlikely. | |||
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" But simplistically, they’d get rid of all laws that differentiate between different nations. For example, it would no longer give all Jews around the world an unfettered right to return, whilst precluding Palestinians. I think it would also have to make Arabic an official language again (as it was until 2018) and the country’s name would probably have to change to something like Israel-Palestine. It’s the one-state solution - there is stuff written on it. " It sounds idealistic, though. Why would it work in Israel (where saying that there is bad blood is an understatement) when it doesn't work anywhere else in the Middle East with ethnic minorities? Do you really feel that a minority Jewish state is possible in the region? | |||
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"Because I didn’t want to start another thread about it: I also want to know if, you in particular, would try to defend Netanyahu, for something I personally find horrific! Associating the actions of Netanyahu or the Israeli government with Jews in general is part of the problem that has caused the increase in antisemitic attacks worldwide. So to be clear, you are not condoning this? The man is evil, and is dragging Israel as a nation through the mud. On a thread entitled "antisemitism", it's very noticeable that you seemingly demand that this poster condemns Israel, but no condemnation from you about Hamas using the school as a base to plan more attacks, whilst hiding behind civilians. Both these "facts" are in the news articles, but you only concentrate on Israel's role. As I said, a very noticeable bias, on a thread about antisemitism. "It is not bias, I have only seen evidence of dead children. If there was any evidence to suggest the ‘facts’ that Hamas were hiding behind the school, I wouldn’t have held back on it. Besides, even if they were there, they don’t appear to have been hit in the air strike. What is the point of hitting the school but not the hidden terrorists? (And yes, Hamas are terrorists that is fact). | |||
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"I read the definitions and though some I agree with When you say you only agree with some of it, it sounds like an "I'm not racist but... " excuse. It's not up to you to define what antisemitism is." Oh right so you expect people to go along with those political shadey elements then. I'll stick to international law thank you very much. Likely the same extremists who drew up that list are the same ones who drew up the Hannibal Directive! Anyone who wants to know what lengths Netenyahu is going to. Look up the Hannibal Directive and decide for yourselves. Would any reasonable government in the world have a Hannibal Directive? | |||
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"So the Israeli army, controlled by Netanyahu has bombed a school today. But they say that Hamas are hiding behind it, so that’s alright then, innit? I am posting a link to the Independent, so that I don’t get accused of using right wing media. Oh and I’m not blaming the Jewish race, or even Israeli people in general. Just another hateful political leader and whomever was aiming that air strike. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/gaza-israel-war-school-airstrike-b2575441.html" Have Google and search the Hannibal Directive. Quite an eye opener! | |||
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"So the Israeli army, controlled by Netanyahu has bombed a school today. But they say that Hamas are hiding behind it, so that’s alright then, innit? I am posting a link to the Independent, so that I don’t get accused of using right wing media. Oh and I’m not blaming the Jewish race, or even Israeli people in general. Just another hateful political leader and whomever was aiming that air strike. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/gaza-israel-war-school-airstrike-b2575441.html Have Google and search the Hannibal Directive. Quite an eye opener! " I did, and if I’m not mistaken, soldiers are trained to kill their own comrades to stop them being taken prisoner by their enemy. Wow! | |||
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"So the Israeli army, controlled by Netanyahu has bombed a school today. But they say that Hamas are hiding behind it, so that’s alright then, innit? I am posting a link to the Independent, so that I don’t get accused of using right wing media. Oh and I’m not blaming the Jewish race, or even Israeli people in general. Just another hateful political leader and whomever was aiming that air strike. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/gaza-israel-war-school-airstrike-b2575441.html Have Google and search the Hannibal Directive. Quite an eye opener! I did, and if I’m not mistaken, soldiers are trained to kill their own comrades to stop them being taken prisoner by their enemy. Wow!" I'm looking up to see if it's been updated for Israeli citizen too | |||
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"So the Israeli army, controlled by Netanyahu has bombed a school today. But they say that Hamas are hiding behind it, so that’s alright then, innit? I am posting a link to the Independent, so that I don’t get accused of using right wing media. Oh and I’m not blaming the Jewish race, or even Israeli people in general. Just another hateful political leader and whomever was aiming that air strike. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/gaza-israel-war-school-airstrike-b2575441.html Have Google and search the Hannibal Directive. Quite an eye opener! " Why is it an ete opener? Is it that are viewing the Middle East through the eyes of a northern European? And how does this explain antisemitism? | |||
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"So the Israeli army, controlled by Netanyahu has bombed a school today. But they say that Hamas are hiding behind it, so that’s alright then, innit? I am posting a link to the Independent, so that I don’t get accused of using right wing media. Oh and I’m not blaming the Jewish race, or even Israeli people in general. Just another hateful political leader and whomever was aiming that air strike. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/gaza-israel-war-school-airstrike-b2575441.html Have Google and search the Hannibal Directive. Quite an eye opener! Why is it an ete opener? Is it that are viewing the Middle East through the eyes of a northern European? And how does this explain antisemitism?" So what are we talking about here? Would the Arabs torture captured Israelis slowly to death, or is it to do with ransoms? There must be a reason why they don’t want to be taken alive. | |||
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" Oh right so you expect people to go along with those political shadey elements then. " The definition was give to us by the IHRA - aka the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance. That's not some shady political organisation. | |||
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" Oh right so you expect people to go along with those political shadey elements then. The definition was give to us by the IHRA - aka the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance. That's not some shady political organisation. " Well let's look at one clause that has a more sinister meaning One clause.. an example of antisemitism is: * Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g [by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavour] Plus another clause: Not identifying contemporary isreali polies as being Nazi Both are odd to the point of being so specific it seems to cover particular activities the Isreali government would be up to The list ignores that under [international law], that Israel has been an illegally occupying power for years! It also doesnt bother to consider whether this right includes the right to create a state of Isreal by using ethnic cleansing, or the rights of actual residents forced out of their homes for rather flimsy claims by european Jews that their vaguely might have came from Isreal. It also is a convenient cover to facilitate Isreal's ambitions... : Create and maintain a system designed to oppress and dominate the Palestinians to privilege Jewish Israelis. A map of the area will show that the isralis segregating palestinians in enclaves to opress them more easily All backd up by discriminatory land and property seizures.. forced evictions and endless blockades. It's a poorly camouflaged intent that stands out! And that is why I won't support this extremist view. One appauling event is when the Israeli regime described all Gazans as human animals, and that there are no innocent civilians in Gaza.. or words to that effect! Take a look at the following link. Because you and the Zionist cause fits this ; https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/new-definition-of-extremism-2024/new-definition-of-extremism-2024 After all I have mentioned above, I really feel for the peace loving Jews around the world looking on in horror as their religion is being hijacked by fanatics | |||
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" Oh right so you expect people to go along with those political shadey elements then. The definition was give to us by the IHRA - aka the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance. That's not some shady political organisation. Well let's look at one clause that has a more sinister meaning One clause.. an example of antisemitism is: * Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g [by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavour] Plus another clause: Not identifying contemporary isreali polies as being Nazi Both are odd to the point of being so specific it seems to cover particular activities the Isreali government would be up to The list ignores that under [international law], that Israel has been an illegally occupying power for years! It also doesnt bother to consider whether this right includes the right to create a state of Isreal by using ethnic cleansing, or the rights of actual residents forced out of their homes for rather flimsy claims by european Jews that their vaguely might have came from Isreal. It also is a convenient cover to facilitate Isreal's ambitions... : Create and maintain a system designed to oppress and dominate the Palestinians to privilege Jewish Israelis. A map of the area will show that the isralis segregating palestinians in enclaves to opress them more easily All backd up by discriminatory land and property seizures.. forced evictions and endless blockades. It's a poorly camouflaged intent that stands out! And that is why I won't support this extremist view. One appauling event is when the Israeli regime described all Gazans as human animals, and that there are no innocent civilians in Gaza.. or words to that effect! Take a look at the following link. Because you and the Zionist cause fits this ; https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/new-definition-of-extremism-2024/new-definition-of-extremism-2024 After all I have mentioned above, I really feel for the peace loving Jews around the world looking on in horror as their religion is being hijacked by fanatics " You often forget to add that you also consistently feel the same about the peace loving Moslems around the world looking on in horror as their religion is being hijacked by fanatics. Doesn't that say where you stand on antisemitism? | |||
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"So... A thread titled "Antisemitism", started to describe "bonkers" IHRA Working Definition of Antisemitism, then goes on to call Israel a "racist apartheid state ... similar strategies to the Nazis". The thread then goes into a discussion of how bad Israel is. You know, you'd think someone starting a thread about antisemitism might start with why it's bad, how it could be addressed, perhaps show some sympathy... But nope! It's straight in there. At least it's honest and dropping any pretense. But it's a funny title to a thread started to throw shade on the IHRA Working Definition of Antisemitism. And no. Appending "part 2" doesn't make it less weird. Better to say "Antisemitism - is it real? It's it overblown?"." In a nutshell: the list has clauses that could fit any religion and I agree with them e.g picking on someone because of their religious dress... etc . It does however conflate Zionism with Judaism. Namely the two following clauses... * Drawing comparisons of contemporary isreali policy to Nazis * Denying the right of an Israeli state e.g by accusing it of being a racist endeavour. Note it specifically mentions Isreal in the clauses. The two statements above not relating to religion but by actions and policies of a state. | |||
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" Oh right so you expect people to go along with those political shadey elements then. The definition was give to us by the IHRA - aka the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance. That's not some shady political organisation. Well let's look at one clause that has a more sinister meaning One clause.. an example of antisemitism is: * Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g [by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavour] Plus another clause: Not identifying contemporary isreali polies as being Nazi Both are odd to the point of being so specific it seems to cover particular activities the Isreali government would be up to The list ignores that under [international law], that Israel has been an illegally occupying power for years! It also doesnt bother to consider whether this right includes the right to create a state of Isreal by using ethnic cleansing, or the rights of actual residents forced out of their homes for rather flimsy claims by european Jews that their vaguely might have came from Isreal. It also is a convenient cover to facilitate Isreal's ambitions... : Create and maintain a system designed to oppress and dominate the Palestinians to privilege Jewish Israelis. A map of the area will show that the isralis segregating palestinians in enclaves to opress them more easily All backd up by discriminatory land and property seizures.. forced evictions and endless blockades. It's a poorly camouflaged intent that stands out! And that is why I won't support this extremist view. One appauling event is when the Israeli regime described all Gazans as human animals, and that there are no innocent civilians in Gaza.. or words to that effect! Take a look at the following link. Because you and the Zionist cause fits this ; https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/new-definition-of-extremism-2024/new-definition-of-extremism-2024 After all I have mentioned above, I really feel for the peace loving Jews around the world looking on in horror as their religion is being hijacked by fanatics You often forget to add that you also consistently feel the same about the peace loving Moslems around the world looking on in horror as their religion is being hijacked by fanatics. Doesn't that say where you stand on antisemitism?" Not really. Unless you care to elaborate.? | |||
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" Antisemitism - is it real? It's it overblown?" " Yes - and likely made worse now No - and could get even worse | |||
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" Oh right so you expect people to go along with those political shadey elements then. The definition was give to us by the IHRA - aka the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance. That's not some shady political organisation. Well let's look at one clause that has a more sinister meaning One clause.. an example of antisemitism is: * Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g [by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavour] Plus another clause: Not identifying contemporary isreali polies as being Nazi Both are odd to the point of being so specific it seems to cover particular activities the Isreali government would be up to The list ignores that under [international law], that Israel has been an illegally occupying power for years! It also doesnt bother to consider whether this right includes the right to create a state of Isreal by using ethnic cleansing, or the rights of actual residents forced out of their homes for rather flimsy claims by european Jews that their vaguely might have came from Isreal. It also is a convenient cover to facilitate Isreal's ambitions... : Create and maintain a system designed to oppress and dominate the Palestinians to privilege Jewish Israelis. A map of the area will show that the isralis segregating palestinians in enclaves to opress them more easily All backd up by discriminatory land and property seizures.. forced evictions and endless blockades. It's a poorly camouflaged intent that stands out! And that is why I won't support this extremist view. One appauling event is when the Israeli regime described all Gazans as human animals, and that there are no innocent civilians in Gaza.. or words to that effect! Take a look at the following link. Because you and the Zionist cause fits this ; https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/new-definition-of-extremism-2024/new-definition-of-extremism-2024 After all I have mentioned above, I really feel for the peace loving Jews around the world looking on in horror as their religion is being hijacked by fanatics You often forget to add that you also consistently feel the same about the peace loving Moslems around the world looking on in horror as their religion is being hijacked by fanatics. Doesn't that say where you stand on antisemitism? Not really. Unless you care to elaborate.?" If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck and waddles like a duck....... | |||
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" One clause.. an example of antisemitism is: * Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g [by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavour] Plus another clause: Not identifying contemporary isreali polies as being Nazi " Neither of those are objectively true, so when they are used it is only to cause hurt. For a start, Israel has a large Muslim population who enjoy more freedoms than anywhere else in the Arab world. Secondly, Nazi Germany turned on its own people - German Jews who fought with them in WW1 for example. There is no equivalence with any of the analogies that get thrown around liberally. Gaza is not a concentration camp, Israel is not 'zionazi', and, considering the growing population, it is not committing genocide - an accusation that has been levied against Israel for several decades and not a new idea. Some may argue that I am wrong, that the criticism is warranted, but the same analogies are rarely used against other states. | |||
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" But simplistically, they’d get rid of all laws that differentiate between different nations. For example, it would no longer give all Jews around the world an unfettered right to return, whilst precluding Palestinians. I think it would also have to make Arabic an official language again (as it was until 2018) and the country’s name would probably have to change to something like Israel-Palestine. It’s the one-state solution - there is stuff written on it. It sounds idealistic, though. Why would it work in Israel (where saying that there is bad blood is an understatement) when it doesn't work anywhere else in the Middle East with ethnic minorities? Do you really feel that a minority Jewish state is possible in the region?" I hear what you’re saying, and maybe it is idealistic - which of course doesn’t mean it’s antisemitic! My first observation is that, taking into account the whole population, it would probably be far better than it is now. But I do have an innate feeling that it could work. There are a lot of people on both sides that simply want peace and a neutral constitution that moves beyond past disputes. I read a lot of people saying that, and I think it’s what the PLO wanted, eventually. It’s clear that neither side are going anywhere, so eventually they’ll learn to live together. Alternatively, perhaps eventually there’ll be genuine attempts at a two-state solution - but that I feel will also require profound rethinking of the foundations of Zionism, and its ignoring of the local population. (Think Herzl writing that’s the penniless locals should spirited across the boarder, and Weizmann saying that 100,000 local negroes were of no importance - when in fact there were several times that.) Either way, I feel we have to get beyond this equation of antizionism with antisemitism - that just entrenches views and makes peace less likely. | |||
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" So to be clear, you are not condoning this? The man is evil, and is dragging Israel as a nation through the mud. While I support the existence and need for the Jewish state, and their right do defend themselves and remove the Hamas threat, I do not think Jews in this or other countries should be held to account for the decisions of that country, or be pressured into holding any opinion at all - which is what seems to be happening." Just seen this post.. Midnight is correct that a sovereign country has the right to defend itself, however.. what midnight is witholding is that right to self defense does not count if the sovereign state is attacked from territory illegally occupied by that sovereign state! In this case Isreal. | |||
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"Because I didn’t want to start another thread about it: I also want to know if, you in particular, would try to defend Netanyahu, for something I personally find horrific! Associating the actions of Netanyahu or the Israeli government with Jews in general is part of the problem that has caused the increase in antisemitic attacks worldwide. So to be clear, you are not condoning this? The man is evil, and is dragging Israel as a nation through the mud." Yes 66, he does support the Zionist far right cause and justifies all that's been done. Most likely out of misguided loyalties to his mates. | |||
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"So the Israeli army, controlled by Netanyahu has bombed a school today. But they say that Hamas are hiding behind it, so that’s alright then, innit? I am posting a link to the Independent, so that I don’t get accused of using right wing media. Oh and I’m not blaming the Jewish race, or even Israeli people in general. Just another hateful political leader and whomever was aiming that air strike. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/gaza-israel-war-school-airstrike-b2575441.html Have Google and search the Hannibal Directive. Quite an eye opener! Why is it an ete opener? Is it that are viewing the Middle East through the eyes of a northern European? And how does this explain antisemitism? So what are we talking about here? Would the Arabs torture captured Israelis slowly to death, or is it to do with ransoms? There must be a reason why they don’t want to be taken alive." More to do with ransoms. Also the Hannibal directive may have also been used on 7 October on civilians by the IDF. Not saying that definitely happened but all the MIS information from the Isreali government so far I wouldn't be surprised if they did then give hamas the credit. | |||
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" self defense does not count if the sovereign state is attacked from territory illegally occupied by that sovereign state! In this case Isreal. " It's tricky to explain this properly, but Gaza is (or was not) an occupied territory and had not been since 2005 - and declaring it to be so is another example of Israel being held to a different standard to other countries. The complicated part of this, is that the entire region was part of British mandatory territory, and that the borders are still technically part of the ceasefire line from 1948/1967. Gaza could have been a lot of things post-independence, but instead they built military infrastructure, which is why Israel is so rigorous in defending that ceasefire line. To create an almost laughable hypothetical scenario, if Cornwall renounced England and fired thousands of rockets into the mainland and sent people in to massacre the non-Cornish, would it be wrong to protect the boundary, send in the army and attack the military capability they'd embedded into Truro and Newquay (for example)? | |||
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"So the Israeli army, controlled by Netanyahu has bombed a school today. But they say that Hamas are hiding behind it, so that’s alright then, innit? I am posting a link to the Independent, so that I don’t get accused of using right wing media. Oh and I’m not blaming the Jewish race, or even Israeli people in general. Just another hateful political leader and whomever was aiming that air strike. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/gaza-israel-war-school-airstrike-b2575441.html Have Google and search the Hannibal Directive. Quite an eye opener! Why is it an ete opener? Is it that are viewing the Middle East through the eyes of a northern European? And how does this explain antisemitism? So what are we talking about here? Would the Arabs torture captured Israelis slowly to death, or is it to do with ransoms? There must be a reason why they don’t want to be taken alive. More to do with ransoms. Also the Hannibal directive may have also been used on 7 October on civilians by the IDF. Not saying that definitely happened but all the MIS information from the Isreali government so far I wouldn't be surprised if they did then give hamas the credit." Pure speculation | |||
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" But simplistically, they’d get rid of all laws that differentiate between different nations. For example, it would no longer give all Jews around the world an unfettered right to return, whilst precluding Palestinians. I think it would also have to make Arabic an official language again (as it was until 2018) and the country’s name would probably have to change to something like Israel-Palestine. It’s the one-state solution - there is stuff written on it. It sounds idealistic, though. Why would it work in Israel (where saying that there is bad blood is an understatement) when it doesn't work anywhere else in the Middle East with ethnic minorities? Do you really feel that a minority Jewish state is possible in the region? I hear what you’re saying, and maybe it is idealistic - which of course doesn’t mean it’s antisemitic! My first observation is that, taking into account the whole population, it would probably be far better than it is now. But I do have an innate feeling that it could work. There are a lot of people on both sides that simply want peace and a neutral constitution that moves beyond past disputes. I read a lot of people saying that, and I think it’s what the PLO wanted, eventually. It’s clear that neither side are going anywhere, so eventually they’ll learn to live together. Alternatively, perhaps eventually there’ll be genuine attempts at a two-state solution - but that I feel will also require profound rethinking of the foundations of Zionism, and its ignoring of the local population. (Think Herzl writing that’s the penniless locals should spirited across the boarder, and Weizmann saying that 100,000 local negroes were of no importance - when in fact there were several times that.) Either way, I feel we have to get beyond this equation of antizionism with antisemitism - that just entrenches views and makes peace less likely. "  at one point in history, I thought a blinder was about to be pulled off - the yasser arrafat and yitzhak Rabin handshake moment ..  then blind hatred struck .. condemning madness over peace.. the rest is history  | |||
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" Oh right so you expect people to go along with those political shadey elements then. The definition was give to us by the IHRA - aka the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance. That's not some shady political organisation. Well let's look at one clause that has a more sinister meaning One clause.. an example of antisemitism is: * Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g [by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavour] Plus another clause: Not identifying contemporary isreali polies as being Nazi Both are odd to the point of being so specific it seems to cover particular activities the Isreali government would be up to The list ignores that under [international law], that Israel has been an illegally occupying power for years! It also doesnt bother to consider whether this right includes the right to create a state of Isreal by using ethnic cleansing, or the rights of actual residents forced out of their homes for rather flimsy claims by european Jews that their vaguely might have came from Isreal. It also is a convenient cover to facilitate Isreal's ambitions... : Create and maintain a system designed to oppress and dominate the Palestinians to privilege Jewish Israelis. A map of the area will show that the isralis segregating palestinians in enclaves to opress them more easily All backd up by discriminatory land and property seizures.. forced evictions and endless blockades. It's a poorly camouflaged intent that stands out! And that is why I won't support this extremist view. One appauling event is when the Israeli regime described all Gazans as human animals, and that there are no innocent civilians in Gaza.. or words to that effect! Take a look at the following link. Because you and the Zionist cause fits this ; https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/new-definition-of-extremism-2024/new-definition-of-extremism-2024 After all I have mentioned above, I really feel for the peace loving Jews around the world looking on in horror as their religion is being hijacked by fanatics You often forget to add that you also consistently feel the same about the peace loving Moslems around the world looking on in horror as their religion is being hijacked by fanatics. Doesn't that say where you stand on antisemitism? Not really. Unless you care to elaborate.? If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck and waddles like a duck......." If you have something to say could yyou just use plain to the point English? Rather than creepy weirdo? | |||
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" But simplistically, they’d get rid of all laws that differentiate between different nations. For example, it would no longer give all Jews around the world an unfettered right to return, whilst precluding Palestinians. I think it would also have to make Arabic an official language again (as it was until 2018) and the country’s name would probably have to change to something like Israel-Palestine. It’s the one-state solution - there is stuff written on it. It sounds idealistic, though. Why would it work in Israel (where saying that there is bad blood is an understatement) when it doesn't work anywhere else in the Middle East with ethnic minorities? Do you really feel that a minority Jewish state is possible in the region? I hear what you’re saying, and maybe it is idealistic - which of course doesn’t mean it’s antisemitic! My first observation is that, taking into account the whole population, it would probably be far better than it is now. But I do have an innate feeling that it could work. There are a lot of people on both sides that simply want peace and a neutral constitution that moves beyond past disputes. I read a lot of people saying that, and I think it’s what the PLO wanted, eventually. It’s clear that neither side are going anywhere, so eventually they’ll learn to live together. Alternatively, perhaps eventually there’ll be genuine attempts at a two-state solution - but that I feel will also require profound rethinking of the foundations of Zionism, and its ignoring of the local population. (Think Herzl writing that’s the penniless locals should spirited across the boarder, and Weizmann saying that 100,000 local negroes were of no importance - when in fact there were several times that.) Either way, I feel we have to get beyond this equation of antizionism with antisemitism - that just entrenches views and makes peace less likely. at one point in history, I thought a blinder was about to be pulled off - the yasser arrafat and yitzhak Rabin handshake moment .. then blind hatred struck .. condemning madness over peace.. the rest is history "The Oslo Accords had no chance at success due to Atafat acting of his own accord and the rest of the Atab League being against it. They accused Arafat of acting in his own self interest and not with the blessing of the other Arab States. The Khartoum, 3 No's were still very strong with the other Arab States. Mrs x | |||
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" So to be clear, you are not condoning this? The man is evil, and is dragging Israel as a nation through the mud. While I support the existence and need for the Jewish state, and their right do defend themselves and remove the Hamas threat, I do not think Jews in this or other countries should be held to account for the decisions of that country, or be pressured into holding any opinion at all - which is what seems to be happening. Just seen this post.. Midnight is correct that a sovereign country has the right to defend itself, however.. what midnight is witholding is that right to self defense does not count if the sovereign state is attacked from territory illegally occupied by that sovereign state! In this case Isreal. " Gaza has not been occupied by Israel since 2005, 19 years ago. How long ago do you have to leave somewhere before you can say you no longer occupy there? Mrs x | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" So to be clear, you are not condoning this? The man is evil, and is dragging Israel as a nation through the mud. While I support the existence and need for the Jewish state, and their right do defend themselves and remove the Hamas threat, I do not think Jews in this or other countries should be held to account for the decisions of that country, or be pressured into holding any opinion at all - which is what seems to be happening. Just seen this post.. Midnight is correct that a sovereign country has the right to defend itself, however.. what midnight is witholding is that right to self defense does not count if the sovereign state is attacked from territory illegally occupied by that sovereign state! In this case Isreal. Gaza has not been occupied by Israel since 2005, 19 years ago. How long ago do you have to leave somewhere before you can say you no longer occupy there? Mrs x" Gaza is only one enclave of Palestine | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" But simplistically, they’d get rid of all laws that differentiate between different nations. For example, it would no longer give all Jews around the world an unfettered right to return, whilst precluding Palestinians. I think it would also have to make Arabic an official language again (as it was until 2018) and the country’s name would probably have to change to something like Israel-Palestine. It’s the one-state solution - there is stuff written on it. It sounds idealistic, though. Why would it work in Israel (where saying that there is bad blood is an understatement) when it doesn't work anywhere else in the Middle East with ethnic minorities? Do you really feel that a minority Jewish state is possible in the region? I hear what you’re saying, and maybe it is idealistic - which of course doesn’t mean it’s antisemitic! My first observation is that, taking into account the whole population, it would probably be far better than it is now. But I do have an innate feeling that it could work. There are a lot of people on both sides that simply want peace and a neutral constitution that moves beyond past disputes. I read a lot of people saying that, and I think it’s what the PLO wanted, eventually. It’s clear that neither side are going anywhere, so eventually they’ll learn to live together. Alternatively, perhaps eventually there’ll be genuine attempts at a two-state solution - but that I feel will also require profound rethinking of the foundations of Zionism, and its ignoring of the local population. (Think Herzl writing that’s the penniless locals should spirited across the boarder, and Weizmann saying that 100,000 local negroes were of no importance - when in fact there were several times that.) Either way, I feel we have to get beyond this equation of antizionism with antisemitism - that just entrenches views and makes peace less likely. at one point in history, I thought a blinder was about to be pulled off - the yasser arrafat and yitzhak Rabin handshake moment .. then blind hatred struck .. condemning madness over peace.. the rest is history The Oslo Accords had no chance at success due to Atafat acting of his own accord and the rest of the Atab League being against it. They accused Arafat of acting in his own self interest and not with the blessing of the other Arab States. The Khartoum, 3 No's were still very strong with the other Arab States.
Mrs x"Says you. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"But no one’s suggesting they’d have to leave; the country could be redefined as a strictly secular country where every nation is equal, like in the UK. That would require major change in Israel’s constitutional set up (and I know it doesn’t have a written constitution), but need not spell the end of the place as a homeland for Jewish people. And it would be a lot fairer for the over 50% of inhabitants who are not Jewish. That's a very interesting idea. How would it work in practice? Why thank you (and it was your last post I was thinking of). I don’t know precisely… I also feel that as I’m not there, it’s arrogant of me to think I can prescribe things for Israelis and Palestinians. But simplistically, they’d get rid of all laws that differentiate between different nations. For example, it would no longer give all Jews around the world an unfettered right to return, whilst precluding Palestinians. I think it would also have to make Arabic an official language again (as it was until 2018) and the country’s name would probably have to change to something like Israel-Palestine. It’s the one-state solution - there is stuff written on it. " I've looked into the one state solution and looks good to me. If it were implemented though. I can't see the current government of isreal buying into that . | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" But simplistically, they’d get rid of all laws that differentiate between different nations. For example, it would no longer give all Jews around the world an unfettered right to return, whilst precluding Palestinians. I think it would also have to make Arabic an official language again (as it was until 2018) and the country’s name would probably have to change to something like Israel-Palestine. It’s the one-state solution - there is stuff written on it. It sounds idealistic, though. Why would it work in Israel (where saying that there is bad blood is an understatement) when it doesn't work anywhere else in the Middle East with ethnic minorities? Do you really feel that a minority Jewish state is possible in the region? I hear what you’re saying, and maybe it is idealistic - which of course doesn’t mean it’s antisemitic! My first observation is that, taking into account the whole population, it would probably be far better than it is now. But I do have an innate feeling that it could work. There are a lot of people on both sides that simply want peace and a neutral constitution that moves beyond past disputes. I read a lot of people saying that, and I think it’s what the PLO wanted, eventually. It’s clear that neither side are going anywhere, so eventually they’ll learn to live together. Alternatively, perhaps eventually there’ll be genuine attempts at a two-state solution - but that I feel will also require profound rethinking of the foundations of Zionism, and its ignoring of the local population. (Think Herzl writing that’s the penniless locals should spirited across the boarder, and Weizmann saying that 100,000 local negroes were of no importance - when in fact there were several times that.) Either way, I feel we have to get beyond this equation of antizionism with antisemitism - that just entrenches views and makes peace less likely. at one point in history, I thought a blinder was about to be pulled off - the yasser arrafat and yitzhak Rabin handshake moment .. then blind hatred struck .. condemning madness over peace.. the rest is history The Oslo Accords had no chance at success due to Atafat acting of his own accord and the rest of the Atab League being against it. They accused Arafat of acting in his own self interest and not with the blessing of the other Arab States. The Khartoum, 3 No's were still very strong with the other Arab States.
Mrs x
Says you."Not me at all, it's well reported you just have to read if. The Arab League said Arafat did it on his own and in secret to bolster his flagging support. If he had given prior warning of what he was doing then the Arab League would have vetoed it. Don't take my word for it, just read about it. Mrs x | |||
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" So to be clear, you are not condoning this? The man is evil, and is dragging Israel as a nation through the mud. While I support the existence and need for the Jewish state, and their right do defend themselves and remove the Hamas threat, I do not think Jews in this or other countries should be held to account for the decisions of that country, or be pressured into holding any opinion at all - which is what seems to be happening. Just seen this post.. Midnight is correct that a sovereign country has the right to defend itself, however.. what midnight is witholding is that right to self defense does not count if the sovereign state is attacked from territory illegally occupied by that sovereign state! In this case Isreal. Gaza has not been occupied by Israel since 2005, 19 years ago. How long ago do you have to leave somewhere before you can say you no longer occupy there? Mrs x Gaza is only one enclave of Palestine " You are taking about the West Bank. That's not occupied either. Yes there are illegal settlements, by individuals, not the state of Israel and it's these settlements you are talking about I believe. The West Bank is controlled by Fatah. The same terrorist organisation that controlled Gaza before Hamas. Mrs x | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" So to be clear, you are not condoning this? The man is evil, and is dragging Israel as a nation through the mud. While I support the existence and need for the Jewish state, and their right do defend themselves and remove the Hamas threat, I do not think Jews in this or other countries should be held to account for the decisions of that country, or be pressured into holding any opinion at all - which is what seems to be happening. Just seen this post.. Midnight is correct that a sovereign country has the right to defend itself, however.. what midnight is witholding is that right to self defense does not count if the sovereign state is attacked from territory illegally occupied by that sovereign state! In this case Isreal. Gaza has not been occupied by Israel since 2005, 19 years ago. How long ago do you have to leave somewhere before you can say you no longer occupy there? Mrs x Gaza is only one enclave of Palestine You are taking about the West Bank. That's not occupied either. Yes there are illegal settlements, by individuals, not the state of Israel and it's these settlements you are talking about I believe. The West Bank is controlled by Fatah. The same terrorist organisation that controlled Gaza before Hamas. Mrs x" Just ignore this Mrs x | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" So to be clear, you are not condoning this? The man is evil, and is dragging Israel as a nation through the mud. While I support the existence and need for the Jewish state, and their right do defend themselves and remove the Hamas threat, I do not think Jews in this or other countries should be held to account for the decisions of that country, or be pressured into holding any opinion at all - which is what seems to be happening. Just seen this post.. Midnight is correct that a sovereign country has the right to defend itself, however.. what midnight is witholding is that right to self defense does not count if the sovereign state is attacked from territory illegally occupied by that sovereign state! In this case Isreal. Gaza has not been occupied by Israel since 2005, 19 years ago. How long ago do you have to leave somewhere before you can say you no longer occupy there? Mrs x Gaza is only one enclave of Palestine You are taking about the West Bank. That's not occupied either. Yes there are illegal settlements, by individuals, not the state of Israel and it's these settlements you are talking about I believe. The West Bank is controlled by Fatah. The same terrorist organisation that controlled Gaza before Hamas. Mrs xJust ignore this Mrs x" I know what.. your right! The best way forward isn't for them to live in peace but to have narrow minded point scoring that's left the region in perpetual war since 1948. Let's see if that works eh? 
Oh and btw how's the destruction of hamas going?! 9 months in now?... And hamas popping up in areas declared cleansed by the idf.
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"If everyone world wide stopped pretending that their imaginary friend in the sky was the only one that existed it would be a better world. But back to antisemitism the Semites where people of the Middle East, including Arabs, Jews, Akkadians, and Phoenicians. So both sides of the war in Gaza are antisemitic " It’s more to do with language than race, it would appear. But those languages are that of the Arab and the Jew, whom have more in common than they will ever admit! | |||
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"If everyone world wide stopped pretending that their imaginary friend in the sky was the only one that existed it would be a better world. But back to antisemitism the Semites where people of the Middle East, including Arabs, Jews, Akkadians, and Phoenicians. So both sides of the war in Gaza are antisemitic It’s more to do with language than race, it would appear. But those languages are that of the Arab and the Jew, whom have more in common than they will ever admit!" The big problem is the illegal land grabbing by Isreal. Not being content with land cleared by ethnic cleansing in 1948, it continues.. That's the real problem, antisemitism is the accusations that they hide behind to continue land theft.. they deliberately conflate religion with politics | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" So to be clear, you are not condoning this? The man is evil, and is dragging Israel as a nation through the mud. While I support the existence and need for the Jewish state, and their right do defend themselves and remove the Hamas threat, I do not think Jews in this or other countries should be held to account for the decisions of that country, or be pressured into holding any opinion at all - which is what seems to be happening. Just seen this post.. Midnight is correct that a sovereign country has the right to defend itself, however.. what midnight is witholding is that right to self defense does not count if the sovereign state is attacked from territory illegally occupied by that sovereign state! In this case Isreal. Gaza has not been occupied by Israel since 2005, 19 years ago. How long ago do you have to leave somewhere before you can say you no longer occupy there? Mrs x" Do get your " facts" straight! I do wish you'd stop your gaslighting and untruths. 8000 illegal settlements left Gaza, 12,000 [illegal] settlements set up in the West Bank. I don't know about you but that looks very much like land theft to me. Especially when [illegal] settlers carry guns to enforce the [continued stealing] of land. Theft!!.. Does the though shalt not steal ring any bells? And they won't stop there! Netenyahu is in a race against time to grab what they can before the world steps up and stops what's happening | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" But simplistically, they’d get rid of all laws that differentiate between different nations. For example, it would no longer give all Jews around the world an unfettered right to return, whilst precluding Palestinians. I think it would also have to make Arabic an official language again (as it was until 2018) and the country’s name would probably have to change to something like Israel-Palestine. It’s the one-state solution - there is stuff written on it. It sounds idealistic, though. Why would it work in Israel (where saying that there is bad blood is an understatement) when it doesn't work anywhere else in the Middle East with ethnic minorities? Do you really feel that a minority Jewish state is possible in the region? I hear what you’re saying, and maybe it is idealistic - which of course doesn’t mean it’s antisemitic! My first observation is that, taking into account the whole population, it would probably be far better than it is now. But I do have an innate feeling that it could work. There are a lot of people on both sides that simply want peace and a neutral constitution that moves beyond past disputes. I read a lot of people saying that, and I think it’s what the PLO wanted, eventually. It’s clear that neither side are going anywhere, so eventually they’ll learn to live together. Alternatively, perhaps eventually there’ll be genuine attempts at a two-state solution - but that I feel will also require profound rethinking of the foundations of Zionism, and its ignoring of the local population. (Think Herzl writing that’s the penniless locals should spirited across the boarder, and Weizmann saying that 100,000 local negroes were of no importance - when in fact there were several times that.) Either way, I feel we have to get beyond this equation of antizionism with antisemitism - that just entrenches views and makes peace less likely. at one point in history, I thought a blinder was about to be pulled off - the yasser arrafat and yitzhak Rabin handshake moment .. then blind hatred struck .. condemning madness over peace.. the rest is history The Oslo Accords had no chance at success due to Atafat acting of his own accord and the rest of the Atab League being against it. They accused Arafat of acting in his own self interest and not with the blessing of the other Arab States. The Khartoum, 3 No's were still very strong with the other Arab States.
Mrs x
Says you.Not me at all, it's well reported you just have to read if.
The Arab League said Arafat did it on his own and in secret to bolster his flagging support. If he had given prior warning of what he was doing then the Arab League would have vetoed it.
Don't take my word for it, just read about it.
Mrs x"Arafat was accused of being too amenable to agree to a deal with Rabin. The Arab League wanted a lot more.. the removal of the Isreali state because it was unjustly created. Out of two extremists groups opposing each other, two leaders nearly pulled off a peace process. Btw, how's the destruction of hamas going? And are you learning anything yet? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" But simplistically, they’d get rid of all laws that differentiate between different nations. For example, it would no longer give all Jews around the world an unfettered right to return, whilst precluding Palestinians. I think it would also have to make Arabic an official language again (as it was until 2018) and the country’s name would probably have to change to something like Israel-Palestine. It’s the one-state solution - there is stuff written on it. It sounds idealistic, though. Why would it work in Israel (where saying that there is bad blood is an understatement) when it doesn't work anywhere else in the Middle East with ethnic minorities? Do you really feel that a minority Jewish state is possible in the region? I hear what you’re saying, and maybe it is idealistic - which of course doesn’t mean it’s antisemitic! My first observation is that, taking into account the whole population, it would probably be far better than it is now. But I do have an innate feeling that it could work. There are a lot of people on both sides that simply want peace and a neutral constitution that moves beyond past disputes. I read a lot of people saying that, and I think it’s what the PLO wanted, eventually. It’s clear that neither side are going anywhere, so eventually they’ll learn to live together. Alternatively, perhaps eventually there’ll be genuine attempts at a two-state solution - but that I feel will also require profound rethinking of the foundations of Zionism, and its ignoring of the local population. (Think Herzl writing that’s the penniless locals should spirited across the boarder, and Weizmann saying that 100,000 local negroes were of no importance - when in fact there were several times that.) Either way, I feel we have to get beyond this equation of antizionism with antisemitism - that just entrenches views and makes peace less likely. at one point in history, I thought a blinder was about to be pulled off - the yasser arrafat and yitzhak Rabin handshake moment .. then blind hatred struck .. condemning madness over peace.. the rest is history The Oslo Accords had no chance at success due to Atafat acting of his own accord and the rest of the Atab League being against it. They accused Arafat of acting in his own self interest and not with the blessing of the other Arab States. The Khartoum, 3 No's were still very strong with the other Arab States.
Mrs x
Says you.Not me at all, it's well reported you just have to read if.
The Arab League said Arafat did it on his own and in secret to bolster his flagging support. If he had given prior warning of what he was doing then the Arab League would have vetoed it.
Don't take my word for it, just read about it.
Mrs x
Arafat was accused of being too amenable to agree to a deal with Rabin.
The Arab League wanted a lot more.. the removal of the Isreali state because it was unjustly created.
Out of two extremists groups opposing each other, two leaders nearly pulled off a peace process.
Btw, how's the destruction of hamas going? And are you learning anything yet?
"But they didn't pull anything off did they. Ararat did not have a mandate to negotiate any peace deal it was doomed to fail. Mrs x | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" But simplistically, they’d get rid of all laws that differentiate between different nations. For example, it would no longer give all Jews around the world an unfettered right to return, whilst precluding Palestinians. I think it would also have to make Arabic an official language again (as it was until 2018) and the country’s name would probably have to change to something like Israel-Palestine. It’s the one-state solution - there is stuff written on it. It sounds idealistic, though. Why would it work in Israel (where saying that there is bad blood is an understatement) when it doesn't work anywhere else in the Middle East with ethnic minorities? Do you really feel that a minority Jewish state is possible in the region? I hear what you’re saying, and maybe it is idealistic - which of course doesn’t mean it’s antisemitic! My first observation is that, taking into account the whole population, it would probably be far better than it is now. But I do have an innate feeling that it could work. There are a lot of people on both sides that simply want peace and a neutral constitution that moves beyond past disputes. I read a lot of people saying that, and I think it’s what the PLO wanted, eventually. It’s clear that neither side are going anywhere, so eventually they’ll learn to live together. Alternatively, perhaps eventually there’ll be genuine attempts at a two-state solution - but that I feel will also require profound rethinking of the foundations of Zionism, and its ignoring of the local population. (Think Herzl writing that’s the penniless locals should spirited across the boarder, and Weizmann saying that 100,000 local negroes were of no importance - when in fact there were several times that.) Either way, I feel we have to get beyond this equation of antizionism with antisemitism - that just entrenches views and makes peace less likely. at one point in history, I thought a blinder was about to be pulled off - the yasser arrafat and yitzhak Rabin handshake moment .. then blind hatred struck .. condemning madness over peace.. the rest is history The Oslo Accords had no chance at success due to Atafat acting of his own accord and the rest of the Atab League being against it. They accused Arafat of acting in his own self interest and not with the blessing of the other Arab States. The Khartoum, 3 No's were still very strong with the other Arab States.
Mrs x
Says you.Not me at all, it's well reported you just have to read if.
The Arab League said Arafat did it on his own and in secret to bolster his flagging support. If he had given prior warning of what he was doing then the Arab League would have vetoed it.
Don't take my word for it, just read about it.
Mrs x
Arafat was accused of being too amenable to agree to a deal with Rabin.
The Arab League wanted a lot more.. the removal of the Isreali state because it was unjustly created.
Out of two extremists groups opposing each other, two leaders nearly pulled off a peace process.
Btw, how's the destruction of hamas going? And are you learning anything yet?
But they didn't pull anything off did they. Ararat did not have a mandate to negotiate any peace deal it was doomed to fail.
Mrs x"Your supportive and prefer what's happening then. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" But simplistically, they’d get rid of all laws that differentiate between different nations. For example, it would no longer give all Jews around the world an unfettered right to return, whilst precluding Palestinians. I think it would also have to make Arabic an official language again (as it was until 2018) and the country’s name would probably have to change to something like Israel-Palestine. It’s the one-state solution - there is stuff written on it. It sounds idealistic, though. Why would it work in Israel (where saying that there is bad blood is an understatement) when it doesn't work anywhere else in the Middle East with ethnic minorities? Do you really feel that a minority Jewish state is possible in the region? I hear what you’re saying, and maybe it is idealistic - which of course doesn’t mean it’s antisemitic! My first observation is that, taking into account the whole population, it would probably be far better than it is now. But I do have an innate feeling that it could work. There are a lot of people on both sides that simply want peace and a neutral constitution that moves beyond past disputes. I read a lot of people saying that, and I think it’s what the PLO wanted, eventually. It’s clear that neither side are going anywhere, so eventually they’ll learn to live together. Alternatively, perhaps eventually there’ll be genuine attempts at a two-state solution - but that I feel will also require profound rethinking of the foundations of Zionism, and its ignoring of the local population. (Think Herzl writing that’s the penniless locals should spirited across the boarder, and Weizmann saying that 100,000 local negroes were of no importance - when in fact there were several times that.) Either way, I feel we have to get beyond this equation of antizionism with antisemitism - that just entrenches views and makes peace less likely. at one point in history, I thought a blinder was about to be pulled off - the yasser arrafat and yitzhak Rabin handshake moment .. then blind hatred struck .. condemning madness over peace.. the rest is history The Oslo Accords had no chance at success due to Atafat acting of his own accord and the rest of the Atab League being against it. They accused Arafat of acting in his own self interest and not with the blessing of the other Arab States. The Khartoum, 3 No's were still very strong with the other Arab States.
Mrs x
Says you.Not me at all, it's well reported you just have to read if.
The Arab League said Arafat did it on his own and in secret to bolster his flagging support. If he had given prior warning of what he was doing then the Arab League would have vetoed it.
Don't take my word for it, just read about it.
Mrs x
Arafat was accused of being too amenable to agree to a deal with Rabin.
The Arab League wanted a lot more.. the removal of the Isreali state because it was unjustly created.
Out of two extremists groups opposing each other, two leaders nearly pulled off a peace process.
Btw, how's the destruction of hamas going? And are you learning anything yet?
But they didn't pull anything off did they. Ararat did not have a mandate to negotiate any peace deal it was doomed to fail.
Mrs x
Your supportive and prefer what's happening then. "I don't support any conflict but I'm aware of why things escalate to violence. Historically it's been the Arab states that have resisted the peace process here. Mrs x | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" But simplistically, they’d get rid of all laws that differentiate between different nations. For example, it would no longer give all Jews around the world an unfettered right to return, whilst precluding Palestinians. I think it would also have to make Arabic an official language again (as it was until 2018) and the country’s name would probably have to change to something like Israel-Palestine. It’s the one-state solution - there is stuff written on it. It sounds idealistic, though. Why would it work in Israel (where saying that there is bad blood is an understatement) when it doesn't work anywhere else in the Middle East with ethnic minorities? Do you really feel that a minority Jewish state is possible in the region? I hear what you’re saying, and maybe it is idealistic - which of course doesn’t mean it’s antisemitic! My first observation is that, taking into account the whole population, it would probably be far better than it is now. But I do have an innate feeling that it could work. There are a lot of people on both sides that simply want peace and a neutral constitution that moves beyond past disputes. I read a lot of people saying that, and I think it’s what the PLO wanted, eventually. It’s clear that neither side are going anywhere, so eventually they’ll learn to live together. Alternatively, perhaps eventually there’ll be genuine attempts at a two-state solution - but that I feel will also require profound rethinking of the foundations of Zionism, and its ignoring of the local population. (Think Herzl writing that’s the penniless locals should spirited across the boarder, and Weizmann saying that 100,000 local negroes were of no importance - when in fact there were several times that.) Either way, I feel we have to get beyond this equation of antizionism with antisemitism - that just entrenches views and makes peace less likely. at one point in history, I thought a blinder was about to be pulled off - the yasser arrafat and yitzhak Rabin handshake moment .. then blind hatred struck .. condemning madness over peace.. the rest is history The Oslo Accords had no chance at success due to Atafat acting of his own accord and the rest of the Atab League being against it. They accused Arafat of acting in his own self interest and not with the blessing of the other Arab States. The Khartoum, 3 No's were still very strong with the other Arab States.
Mrs x
Says you.Not me at all, it's well reported you just have to read if.
The Arab League said Arafat did it on his own and in secret to bolster his flagging support. If he had given prior warning of what he was doing then the Arab League would have vetoed it.
Don't take my word for it, just read about it.
Mrs x
Arafat was accused of being too amenable to agree to a deal with Rabin.
The Arab League wanted a lot more.. the removal of the Isreali state because it was unjustly created.
Out of two extremists groups opposing each other, two leaders nearly pulled off a peace process.
Btw, how's the destruction of hamas going? And are you learning anything yet?
But they didn't pull anything off did they. Ararat did not have a mandate to negotiate any peace deal it was doomed to fail.
Mrs x
Your supportive and prefer what's happening then. I don't support any conflict but I'm aware of why things escalate to violence. Historically it's been the Arab states that have resisted the peace process here.
Mrs x"Arafat was willing to compromise and I think he could see that realistically Isreal wasn't going to be removed even though extremely controversial as it is. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" But simplistically, they’d get rid of all laws that differentiate between different nations. For example, it would no longer give all Jews around the world an unfettered right to return, whilst precluding Palestinians. I think it would also have to make Arabic an official language again (as it was until 2018) and the country’s name would probably have to change to something like Israel-Palestine. It’s the one-state solution - there is stuff written on it. It sounds idealistic, though. Why would it work in Israel (where saying that there is bad blood is an understatement) when it doesn't work anywhere else in the Middle East with ethnic minorities? Do you really feel that a minority Jewish state is possible in the region? I hear what you’re saying, and maybe it is idealistic - which of course doesn’t mean it’s antisemitic! My first observation is that, taking into account the whole population, it would probably be far better than it is now. But I do have an innate feeling that it could work. There are a lot of people on both sides that simply want peace and a neutral constitution that moves beyond past disputes. I read a lot of people saying that, and I think it’s what the PLO wanted, eventually. It’s clear that neither side are going anywhere, so eventually they’ll learn to live together. Alternatively, perhaps eventually there’ll be genuine attempts at a two-state solution - but that I feel will also require profound rethinking of the foundations of Zionism, and its ignoring of the local population. (Think Herzl writing that’s the penniless locals should spirited across the boarder, and Weizmann saying that 100,000 local negroes were of no importance - when in fact there were several times that.) Either way, I feel we have to get beyond this equation of antizionism with antisemitism - that just entrenches views and makes peace less likely. at one point in history, I thought a blinder was about to be pulled off - the yasser arrafat and yitzhak Rabin handshake moment .. then blind hatred struck .. condemning madness over peace.. the rest is history The Oslo Accords had no chance at success due to Atafat acting of his own accord and the rest of the Atab League being against it. They accused Arafat of acting in his own self interest and not with the blessing of the other Arab States. The Khartoum, 3 No's were still very strong with the other Arab States.
Mrs x
Says you.Not me at all, it's well reported you just have to read if.
The Arab League said Arafat did it on his own and in secret to bolster his flagging support. If he had given prior warning of what he was doing then the Arab League would have vetoed it.
Don't take my word for it, just read about it.
Mrs x
Arafat was accused of being too amenable to agree to a deal with Rabin.
The Arab League wanted a lot more.. the removal of the Isreali state because it was unjustly created.
Out of two extremists groups opposing each other, two leaders nearly pulled off a peace process.
Btw, how's the destruction of hamas going? And are you learning anything yet?
But they didn't pull anything off did they. Ararat did not have a mandate to negotiate any peace deal it was doomed to fail.
Mrs x
Your supportive and prefer what's happening then. I don't support any conflict but I'm aware of why things escalate to violence. Historically it's been the Arab states that have resisted the peace process here.
Mrs x
Arafat was willing to compromise and I think he could see that realistically Isreal wasn't going to be removed even though extremely controversial as it is.
"Arafat knew the other Arab League countries would not go for it and could say and do anything he wanted. It's like being the opposition party, you can promise anything knowing you won't have to deliver because you don't have the power to. Ararat did this to improve his standing and support within the PLO which was declining at the time. He knew that he would look good to non Arab countries as he would at least have been 'the Arab' that tried for peace with Israel but ultimately he knew it was not a plausible action on his behalf. Quite cynical when you think about it. Krs x | |||
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"the person who also describes the mindless massacre of civilians in Gaza as a case of "wash rinse repeat" says it all about his mindset. I describe the general Arab obsession as 'wash, rinse, repeat'. Every war in Israel was started by Arabs, and they lost every war too - and then used that loss to proclaim eternal victimhood. If you want peace, then don't start wars. However, this subject is about antisemitism, and the obsessive focus on Israel (to the exclusion of other conflicts) is part of that." Zionists are the antisemics! They behave in a way that Jews did not behave for two thousand years. They're racist colonialists.. They're committing Spaulding acts, and for me not support the disgusting acts they're what they're doing since 1948 is supposed to draw criticism? | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" But simplistically, they’d get rid of all laws that differentiate between different nations. For example, it would no longer give all Jews around the world an unfettered right to return, whilst precluding Palestinians. I think it would also have to make Arabic an official language again (as it was until 2018) and the country’s name would probably have to change to something like Israel-Palestine. It’s the one-state solution - there is stuff written on it. It sounds idealistic, though. Why would it work in Israel (where saying that there is bad blood is an understatement) when it doesn't work anywhere else in the Middle East with ethnic minorities? Do you really feel that a minority Jewish state is possible in the region? I hear what you’re saying, and maybe it is idealistic - which of course doesn’t mean it’s antisemitic! My first observation is that, taking into account the whole population, it would probably be far better than it is now. But I do have an innate feeling that it could work. There are a lot of people on both sides that simply want peace and a neutral constitution that moves beyond past disputes. I read a lot of people saying that, and I think it’s what the PLO wanted, eventually. It’s clear that neither side are going anywhere, so eventually they’ll learn to live together. Alternatively, perhaps eventually there’ll be genuine attempts at a two-state solution - but that I feel will also require profound rethinking of the foundations of Zionism, and its ignoring of the local population. (Think Herzl writing that’s the penniless locals should spirited across the boarder, and Weizmann saying that 100,000 local negroes were of no importance - when in fact there were several times that.) Either way, I feel we have to get beyond this equation of antizionism with antisemitism - that just entrenches views and makes peace less likely. at one point in history, I thought a blinder was about to be pulled off - the yasser arrafat and yitzhak Rabin handshake moment .. then blind hatred struck .. condemning madness over peace.. the rest is history The Oslo Accords had no chance at success due to Atafat acting of his own accord and the rest of the Atab League being against it. They accused Arafat of acting in his own self interest and not with the blessing of the other Arab States. The Khartoum, 3 No's were still very strong with the other Arab States.
Mrs x
Says you.Not me at all, it's well reported you just have to read if.
The Arab League said Arafat did it on his own and in secret to bolster his flagging support. If he had given prior warning of what he was doing then the Arab League would have vetoed it.
Don't take my word for it, just read about it.
Mrs x
Arafat was accused of being too amenable to agree to a deal with Rabin.
The Arab League wanted a lot more.. the removal of the Isreali state because it was unjustly created.
Out of two extremists groups opposing each other, two leaders nearly pulled off a peace process.
Btw, how's the destruction of hamas going? And are you learning anything yet?
But they didn't pull anything off did they. Ararat did not have a mandate to negotiate any peace deal it was doomed to fail.
Mrs x
Your supportive and prefer what's happening then. I don't support any conflict but I'm aware of why things escalate to violence. Historically it's been the Arab states that have resisted the peace process here.
Mrs x
Arafat was willing to compromise and I think he could see that realistically Isreal wasn't going to be removed even though extremely controversial as it is.
Arafat knew the other Arab League countries would not go for it and could say and do anything he wanted. It's like being the opposition party, you can promise anything knowing you won't have to deliver because you don't have the power to.
Ararat did this to improve his standing and support within the PLO which was declining at the time. He knew that he would look good to non Arab countries as he would at least have been 'the Arab' that tried for peace with Israel but ultimately he knew it was not a plausible action on his behalf. Quite cynical when you think about it.
Krs x"Well Arafat and Rabin tried while lol the nay sayers looked on and sabotaged their efforts. I admire them both for trying to bring peace. Antisemitism is being used as an excuse by Netenyahu. If justice and an end to apartheid and the illegal settlements that would be a huge step in ending the conflict | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" But simplistically, they’d get rid of all laws that differentiate between different nations. For example, it would no longer give all Jews around the world an unfettered right to return, whilst precluding Palestinians. I think it would also have to make Arabic an official language again (as it was until 2018) and the country’s name would probably have to change to something like Israel-Palestine. It’s the one-state solution - there is stuff written on it. It sounds idealistic, though. Why would it work in Israel (where saying that there is bad blood is an understatement) when it doesn't work anywhere else in the Middle East with ethnic minorities? Do you really feel that a minority Jewish state is possible in the region? I hear what you’re saying, and maybe it is idealistic - which of course doesn’t mean it’s antisemitic! My first observation is that, taking into account the whole population, it would probably be far better than it is now. But I do have an innate feeling that it could work. There are a lot of people on both sides that simply want peace and a neutral constitution that moves beyond past disputes. I read a lot of people saying that, and I think it’s what the PLO wanted, eventually. It’s clear that neither side are going anywhere, so eventually they’ll learn to live together. Alternatively, perhaps eventually there’ll be genuine attempts at a two-state solution - but that I feel will also require profound rethinking of the foundations of Zionism, and its ignoring of the local population. (Think Herzl writing that’s the penniless locals should spirited across the boarder, and Weizmann saying that 100,000 local negroes were of no importance - when in fact there were several times that.) Either way, I feel we have to get beyond this equation of antizionism with antisemitism - that just entrenches views and makes peace less likely. at one point in history, I thought a blinder was about to be pulled off - the yasser arrafat and yitzhak Rabin handshake moment .. then blind hatred struck .. condemning madness over peace.. the rest is history The Oslo Accords had no chance at success due to Atafat acting of his own accord and the rest of the Atab League being against it. They accused Arafat of acting in his own self interest and not with the blessing of the other Arab States. The Khartoum, 3 No's were still very strong with the other Arab States.
Mrs x
Says you.Not me at all, it's well reported you just have to read if.
The Arab League said Arafat did it on his own and in secret to bolster his flagging support. If he had given prior warning of what he was doing then the Arab League would have vetoed it.
Don't take my word for it, just read about it.
Mrs x
Arafat was accused of being too amenable to agree to a deal with Rabin.
The Arab League wanted a lot more.. the removal of the Isreali state because it was unjustly created.
Out of two extremists groups opposing each other, two leaders nearly pulled off a peace process.
Btw, how's the destruction of hamas going? And are you learning anything yet?
But they didn't pull anything off did they. Ararat did not have a mandate to negotiate any peace deal it was doomed to fail.
Mrs x
Your supportive and prefer what's happening then. I don't support any conflict but I'm aware of why things escalate to violence. Historically it's been the Arab states that have resisted the peace process here.
Mrs x
Arafat was willing to compromise and I think he could see that realistically Isreal wasn't going to be removed even though extremely controversial as it is.
Arafat knew the other Arab League countries would not go for it and could say and do anything he wanted. It's like being the opposition party, you can promise anything knowing you won't have to deliver because you don't have the power to.
Ararat did this to improve his standing and support within the PLO which was declining at the time. He knew that he would look good to non Arab countries as he would at least have been 'the Arab' that tried for peace with Israel but ultimately he knew it was not a plausible action on his behalf. Quite cynical when you think about it.
Krs x
Well Arafat and Rabin tried while lol the nay sayers looked on and sabotaged their efforts.
I admire them both for trying to bring peace.
Antisemitism is being used as an excuse by Netenyahu.
If justice and an end to apartheid and the illegal settlements that would be a huge step in ending the conflict
"Not sure it would work as its not that simple. The Arabs just don't want the Jews anywhere in the region. They have the 3 No's and even have the eradication of Jews in their constitutions. Mrs x | |||
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" But simplistically, they’d get rid of all laws that differentiate between different nations. For example, it would no longer give all Jews around the world an unfettered right to return, whilst precluding Palestinians. I think it would also have to make Arabic an official language again (as it was until 2018) and the country’s name would probably have to change to something like Israel-Palestine. It’s the one-state solution - there is stuff written on it. It sounds idealistic, though. Why would it work in Israel (where saying that there is bad blood is an understatement) when it doesn't work anywhere else in the Middle East with ethnic minorities? Do you really feel that a minority Jewish state is possible in the region? I hear what you’re saying, and maybe it is idealistic - which of course doesn’t mean it’s antisemitic! My first observation is that, taking into account the whole population, it would probably be far better than it is now. But I do have an innate feeling that it could work. There are a lot of people on both sides that simply want peace and a neutral constitution that moves beyond past disputes. I read a lot of people saying that, and I think it’s what the PLO wanted, eventually. It’s clear that neither side are going anywhere, so eventually they’ll learn to live together. Alternatively, perhaps eventually there’ll be genuine attempts at a two-state solution - but that I feel will also require profound rethinking of the foundations of Zionism, and its ignoring of the local population. (Think Herzl writing that’s the penniless locals should spirited across the boarder, and Weizmann saying that 100,000 local negroes were of no importance - when in fact there were several times that.) Either way, I feel we have to get beyond this equation of antizionism with antisemitism - that just entrenches views and makes peace less likely. at one point in history, I thought a blinder was about to be pulled off - the yasser arrafat and yitzhak Rabin handshake moment .. then blind hatred struck .. condemning madness over peace.. the rest is history The Oslo Accords had no chance at success due to Atafat acting of his own accord and the rest of the Atab League being against it. They accused Arafat of acting in his own self interest and not with the blessing of the other Arab States. The Khartoum, 3 No's were still very strong with the other Arab States.
Mrs x
Says you.Not me at all, it's well reported you just have to read if.
The Arab League said Arafat did it on his own and in secret to bolster his flagging support. If he had given prior warning of what he was doing then the Arab League would have vetoed it.
Don't take my word for it, just read about it.
Mrs x
Arafat was accused of being too amenable to agree to a deal with Rabin.
The Arab League wanted a lot more.. the removal of the Isreali state because it was unjustly created.
Out of two extremists groups opposing each other, two leaders nearly pulled off a peace process.
Btw, how's the destruction of hamas going? And are you learning anything yet?
But they didn't pull anything off did they. Ararat did not have a mandate to negotiate any peace deal it was doomed to fail.
Mrs x
Your supportive and prefer what's happening then. I don't support any conflict but I'm aware of why things escalate to violence. Historically it's been the Arab states that have resisted the peace process here.
Mrs x
Arafat was willing to compromise and I think he could see that realistically Isreal wasn't going to be removed even though extremely controversial as it is.
Arafat knew the other Arab League countries would not go for it and could say and do anything he wanted. It's like being the opposition party, you can promise anything knowing you won't have to deliver because you don't have the power to.
Ararat did this to improve his standing and support within the PLO which was declining at the time. He knew that he would look good to non Arab countries as he would at least have been 'the Arab' that tried for peace with Israel but ultimately he knew it was not a plausible action on his behalf. Quite cynical when you think about it.
Krs x
Well Arafat and Rabin tried while lol the nay sayers looked on and sabotaged their efforts.
I admire them both for trying to bring peace.
Antisemitism is being used as an excuse by Netenyahu.
If justice and an end to apartheid and the illegal settlements that would be a huge step in ending the conflict
Not sure it would work as its not that simple. The Arabs just don't want the Jews anywhere in the region. They have the 3 No's and even have the eradication of Jews in their constitutions.
Mrs x"I'd be interested to know exactly why, either through how Isreal is administered currently or because it's citizens are white European.. I don't know.. maybe something else. Apparently and I'm not certain but an Arab mentioned Allah had some covenant with "the children of isreal" Now I'm not sure what he meant Or what the detail was but would be interesting to know | |||
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" I'd be interested to know exactly why, either through how Isreal is administered currently or because it's citizens are white European.." A slim majority of Jews in Israel are from Arab countries (or Iran, but mostly Iraq). | |||
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" I'd be interested to know exactly why, either through how Isreal is administered currently or because it's citizens are white European.. A slim majority of Jews in Israel are from Arab countries (or Iran, but mostly Iraq)." And the others are from.. | |||
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"The original meaning of the word ‘semites,’ describes people who speak various languages from that area, including Aramaic. Now it has been hijacked by Jewish people. There are much more Arabs who are Semitic than there are Jews." | |||
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" I'd be interested to know exactly why, either through how Isreal is administered currently or because it's citizens are white European.. A slim majority of Jews in Israel are from Arab countries (or Iran, but mostly Iraq). And the others are from.." Everywhere else. Mainly Europe, but also Central and Western Asia, India, Ethiopia, South America, etc. | |||
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" I'd be interested to know exactly why, either through how Isreal is administered currently or because it's citizens are white European.. A slim majority of Jews in Israel are from Arab countries (or Iran, but mostly Iraq). And the others are from.. Everywhere else. Mainly Europe, but also Central and Western Asia, India, Ethiopia, South America, etc." Local Arabic residents forced out of their homes and disposessed on favour of others that arnt from Palestine now Isreal.. it's the injustice that's a major role in the conflict, not religious difference. The refugees in Gaza should be allowed to go home. | |||
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" I'd be interested to know exactly why, either through how Isreal is administered currently or because it's citizens are white European.. A slim majority of Jews in Israel are from Arab countries (or Iran, but mostly Iraq). And the others are from.. Everywhere else. Mainly Europe, but also Central and Western Asia, India, Ethiopia, South America, etc. Local Arabic residents forced out of their homes and disposessed on favour of others that arnt from Palestine now Isreal.. it's the injustice that's a major role in the conflict, not religious difference. The refugees in Gaza should be allowed to go home. " Eh? Non sequitur? Were you asking a genuine question before because you were interested, or you just wanted a launch pad to say that? | |||
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"The original meaning of the word ‘semites,’ describes people who speak various languages from that area, including Aramaic. Now it has been hijacked by Jewish people. There are much more Arabs who are Semitic than there are Jews." The term semitic applies to languages, but not to people. The thinking that gave us 'Semitic' people is from the same racial sciences ideology that gave us 'Ayrian' people. It's an outdated idea, and while the term 'antisemitism- is a bit anachronistic, it can only correctly be applied to Jews. | |||
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"I see this thread has moved away from antisemitism again. "You would say that because Your version of antisemitism is based on a misguided perspective and hatred to set a group of people over others and support illegal acts and injustice of a corrupt state. I'd say your a radicalised person | |||
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"The original meaning of the word ‘semites,’ describes people who speak various languages from that area, including Aramaic. Now it has been hijacked by Jewish people. There are much more Arabs who are Semitic than there are Jews." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism "Due to the root word Semite, the term is prone to being invoked as a misnomer by those who incorrectly assert (in an etymological fallacy) that it refers to racist hatred directed at "Semitic people" in spite of the fact that this grouping is an obsolete historical race concept. Likewise, such usage is erroneous; the compound word antisemitismus was first used in print in Germany in 1879 as a "scientific-sounding term" for Judenhass (lit.?'Jew-hatred'), and it has since been used to refer to anti-Jewish sentiment alone." This has been pointed out a few times on this forum. So, in short, antisemitism is specifically against Jews. Other made-up etymologies are incorrect. To say it "has been hijacked by Jewish people" is somewhat offensive. | |||
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"The original meaning of the word ‘semites,’ describes people who speak various languages from that area, including Aramaic. Now it has been hijacked by Jewish people. There are much more Arabs who are Semitic than there are Jews. The term semitic applies to languages, but not to people. The thinking that gave us 'Semitic' people is from the same racial sciences ideology that gave us 'Ayrian' people. It's an outdated idea, and while the term 'antisemitism- is a bit anachronistic, it can only correctly be applied to Jews." Thank you. And just to be clear, I have no personal disliking of Jewish people, or anyone else for that matter. | |||
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"The original meaning of the word ‘semites,’ describes people who speak various languages from that area, including Aramaic. Now it has been hijacked by Jewish people. There are much more Arabs who are Semitic than there are Jews. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism "Due to the root word Semite, the term is prone to being invoked as a misnomer by those who incorrectly assert (in an etymological fallacy) that it refers to racist hatred directed at "Semitic people" in spite of the fact that this grouping is an obsolete historical race concept. Likewise, such usage is erroneous; the compound word antisemitismus was first used in print in Germany in 1879 as a "scientific-sounding term" for Judenhass (lit.?'Jew-hatred'), and it has since been used to refer to anti-Jewish sentiment alone." This has been pointed out a few times on this forum. So, in short, antisemitism is specifically against Jews. Other made-up etymologies are incorrect. To say it "has been hijacked by Jewish people" is somewhat offensive." According to Falk, Treitschke uses the term "Semitic" almost synonymously with "Jewish", in contrast to Renan's use of it to refer to a whole range of peoples,[30] based generally on linguistic criteria.[31] Literally quoted from the same Wikipedia article. Note "almost" synonymously, and Renan's original usage to the whole range of people based on linguistic criteria. So hijacking the term exclusively doesn't make sense. It has etymologic roots and that should be enough to determine where and how it can be used. | |||
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"A bonkers question asked by poster asking why others don't regard the IHRA Working Definition of Antisemitism. I read the definitions and though some I agree with, though already covered by UK law, there are other clauses that give carte Blanche for Isreal to continue being a racist apartheid state, and also employ similar strategies to the Nazis without repercussions. It not only facilitates the continuation of the persecution of Palestinians in a conflict that also gets Isrealis killed, the Zionist project is also a pivotal cause of conflict expanding in the entire region, dragging other countries into the conflict. That's why I find some of the examples a dangerous , heavily biased and irresponsible, dishonest attempt to favour criminal acts, just like the guy who posed the question in the first place. Just to add.. the person who also describes the mindless massacre of civilians in Gaza as a case of "wash rinse repeat" says it all about his mindset. " Massacre ? Should’ve invaded another country then.  | |||
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"The original meaning of the word ‘semites,’ describes people who speak various languages from that area, including Aramaic. Now it has been hijacked by Jewish people. There are much more Arabs who are Semitic than there are Jews. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism "Due to the root word Semite, the term is prone to being invoked as a misnomer by those who incorrectly assert (in an etymological fallacy) that it refers to racist hatred directed at "Semitic people" in spite of the fact that this grouping is an obsolete historical race concept. Likewise, such usage is erroneous; the compound word antisemitismus was first used in print in Germany in 1879 as a "scientific-sounding term" for Judenhass (lit.?'Jew-hatred'), and it has since been used to refer to anti-Jewish sentiment alone." This has been pointed out a few times on this forum. So, in short, antisemitism is specifically against Jews. Other made-up etymologies are incorrect. To say it "has been hijacked by Jewish people" is somewhat offensive. According to Falk, Treitschke uses the term "Semitic" almost synonymously with "Jewish", in contrast to Renan's use of it to refer to a whole range of peoples,[30] based generally on linguistic criteria.[31] Literally quoted from the same Wikipedia article. " Yes. In obsolete, pseudoscientific, race theory. In practice, the term anti-Semitic has never been used to refer to anyone other than Jews. " Note "almost" synonymously, and Renan's original usage to the whole range of people based on linguistic criteria. So hijacking the term exclusively doesn't make sense. " Didn't get the point there, sorry? " It has etymologic roots and that should be enough to determine where and how it can be used." Nobody is about to use the term Anglo-Saxon to refer to Danish/German people, despite its etymological roots. It refers to white English in practice today. Antisemitism refers to Jews in practice today, nobody else. Anti-Jewish would indeed be a much better term, but word usage is what it is. Similar to how Islamophobia should be replaced with Anti-Muslim (it isn't a phobia), but we all know what it means. | |||
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" You would say that because Your version of antisemitism is based on a misguided perspective and hatred to set a group of people over others and support illegal acts and injustice of a corrupt state. I'd say your a radicalised person" It's not 'my' version, it's an internationally accepted definition that's been incorporated into the policies of many countries and institutions. There is an alternative version known as 'The Jerusalem Declaration', borne out of its criticism, that allows more scope to criticise zionism or Israel, but even with that definition, many people in these forums would still be guilty of antisemitism for their portrayal of the current situation. | |||
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" You would say that because Your version of antisemitism is based on a misguided perspective and hatred to set a group of people over others and support illegal acts and injustice of a corrupt state. I'd say your a radicalised person It's not 'my' version, it's an internationally accepted definition that's been incorporated into the policies of many countries and institutions. There is an alternative version known as 'The Jerusalem Declaration', borne out of its criticism, that allows more scope to criticise zionism or Israel, but even with that definition, many people in these forums would still be guilty of antisemitism for their portrayal of the current situation. " You must have a terrible headache from banging your head against this particular brick wall. I sympathise with you, it's hard work on here sometimes. Mrs x | |||
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" You would say that because Your version of antisemitism is based on a misguided perspective and hatred to set a group of people over others and support illegal acts and injustice of a corrupt state. I'd say your a radicalised person It's not 'my' version, it's an internationally accepted definition that's been incorporated into the policies of many countries and institutions. There is an alternative version known as 'The Jerusalem Declaration', borne out of its criticism, that allows more scope to criticise zionism or Israel, but even with that definition, many people in these forums would still be guilty of antisemitism for their portrayal of the current situation. You must have a terrible headache from banging your head against this particular brick wall. I sympathise with you, it's hard work on here sometimes. Mrs x" The only hard work is people like yourself ignoring basic human rights morals and human dignity.. for an ideological cause, no matter how you dress it up. Zionism you, midnight and Netenyahuvsees it is an abomination! and no different to horrible Isis, or and other extremist vile ideology. Ive seen the rhetoric of you and midnight from other exremists .. and I have moral integrity along with any other decent people no matter their faith. Midnight is a radical, your just lacking in decency to think otherwise | |||
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"The only hard work is people like yourself ignoring basic human rights morals and human dignity.. for an ideological cause, no matter how you dress it up. Zionism you, midnight and Netenyahuvsees it is an abomination! and no different to horrible Isis, or and other extremist vile ideology. Ive seen the rhetoric of you and midnight from other exremists .. and I have moral integrity along with any other decent people no matter their faith. Midnight is a radical, your just lacking in decency to think otherwise " Zionism, as an idea, started as a refugee movement, it later on became more of an anti-colonialist movement. It seems to me that many of the leftist antisemites are all about 'refugees welcome' and defeating the historical chains of colonialism - except when it comes to Jews. They don't like Jews unless they can keep them as victims. | |||
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" You would say that because Your version of antisemitism is based on a misguided perspective and hatred to set a group of people over others and support illegal acts and injustice of a corrupt state. I'd say your a radicalised person It's not 'my' version, it's an internationally accepted definition that's been incorporated into the policies of many countries and institutions. There is an alternative version known as 'The Jerusalem Declaration', borne out of its criticism, that allows more scope to criticise zionism or Israel, but even with that definition, many people in these forums would still be guilty of antisemitism for their portrayal of the current situation. You must have a terrible headache from banging your head against this particular brick wall. I sympathise with you, it's hard work on here sometimes. Mrs x The only hard work is people like yourself ignoring basic human rights morals and human dignity.. for an ideological cause, no matter how you dress it up. Zionism you, midnight and Netenyahuvsees it is an abomination! and no different to horrible Isis, or and other extremist vile ideology. Ive seen the rhetoric of you and midnight from other exremists .. and I have moral integrity along with any other decent people no matter their faith. Midnight is a radical, your just lacking in decency to think otherwise " So I'm an indecent extrememist now. How do you come to that conclusion? You are the guy who has fought in two conflicts proudly protecting war criminals in one and attacking Muslims in an unjust war in the other. All I've ever said is that I believe any country has the right to protect themselves from terrorist acts. I've also said that I don't necessarily agree with Israels tactics. I've also said all innocent lives lost is a tragedy. If that makes me an extremist I don't know what else to say. Mrs x | |||
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" You would say that because Your version of antisemitism is based on a misguided perspective and hatred to set a group of people over others and support illegal acts and injustice of a corrupt state. I'd say your a radicalised person It's not 'my' version, it's an internationally accepted definition that's been incorporated into the policies of many countries and institutions. There is an alternative version known as 'The Jerusalem Declaration', borne out of its criticism, that allows more scope to criticise zionism or Israel, but even with that definition, many people in these forums would still be guilty of antisemitism for their portrayal of the current situation. You must have a terrible headache from banging your head against this particular brick wall. I sympathise with you, it's hard work on here sometimes. Mrs x The only hard work is people like yourself ignoring basic human rights morals and human dignity.. for an ideological cause, no matter how you dress it up. Zionism you, midnight and Netenyahuvsees it is an abomination! and no different to horrible Isis, or and other extremist vile ideology. Ive seen the rhetoric of you and midnight from other exremists .. and I have moral integrity along with any other decent people no matter their faith. Midnight is a radical, your just lacking in decency to think otherwise So I'm an indecent extrememist now. How do you come to that conclusion? You are the guy who has fought in two conflicts proudly protecting war criminals in one and attacking Muslims in an unjust war in the other. All I've ever said is that I believe any country has the right to protect themselves from terrorist acts. I've also said that I don't necessarily agree with Israels tactics. I've also said all innocent lives lost is a tragedy. If that makes me an extremist I don't know what else to say. Mrs x" Yes that's it.. follow the crowd. | |||
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" You would say that because Your version of antisemitism is based on a misguided perspective and hatred to set a group of people over others and support illegal acts and injustice of a corrupt state. I'd say your a radicalised person It's not 'my' version, it's an internationally accepted definition that's been incorporated into the policies of many countries and institutions. There is an alternative version known as 'The Jerusalem Declaration', borne out of its criticism, that allows more scope to criticise zionism or Israel, but even with that definition, many people in these forums would still be guilty of antisemitism for their portrayal of the current situation. You must have a terrible headache from banging your head against this particular brick wall. I sympathise with you, it's hard work on here sometimes. Mrs x The only hard work is people like yourself ignoring basic human rights morals and human dignity.. for an ideological cause, no matter how you dress it up. Zionism you, midnight and Netenyahuvsees it is an abomination! and no different to horrible Isis, or and other extremist vile ideology. Ive seen the rhetoric of you and midnight from other exremists .. and I have moral integrity along with any other decent people no matter their faith. Midnight is a radical, your just lacking in decency to think otherwise So I'm an indecent extrememist now. How do you come to that conclusion? You are the guy who has fought in two conflicts proudly protecting war criminals in one and attacking Muslims in an unjust war in the other. All I've ever said is that I believe any country has the right to protect themselves from terrorist acts. I've also said that I don't necessarily agree with Israels tactics. I've also said all innocent lives lost is a tragedy. If that makes me an extremist I don't know what else to say. Mrs x Yes that's it.. follow the crowd. " What crowd,? You're not making sense. Mrs x | |||
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" You would say that because Your version of antisemitism is based on a misguided perspective and hatred to set a group of people over others and support illegal acts and injustice of a corrupt state. I'd say your a radicalised person It's not 'my' version, it's an internationally accepted definition that's been incorporated into the policies of many countries and institutions. There is an alternative version known as 'The Jerusalem Declaration', borne out of its criticism, that allows more scope to criticise zionism or Israel, but even with that definition, many people in these forums would still be guilty of antisemitism for their portrayal of the current situation. You must have a terrible headache from banging your head against this particular brick wall. I sympathise with you, it's hard work on here sometimes. Mrs x The only hard work is people like yourself ignoring basic human rights morals and human dignity.. for an ideological cause, no matter how you dress it up. Zionism you, midnight and Netenyahuvsees it is an abomination! and no different to horrible Isis, or and other extremist vile ideology. Ive seen the rhetoric of you and midnight from other exremists .. and I have moral integrity along with any other decent people no matter their faith. Midnight is a radical, your just lacking in decency to think otherwise So I'm an indecent extrememist now. How do you come to that conclusion? You are the guy who has fought in two conflicts proudly protecting war criminals in one and attacking Muslims in an unjust war in the other. All I've ever said is that I believe any country has the right to protect themselves from terrorist acts. I've also said that I don't necessarily agree with Israels tactics. I've also said all innocent lives lost is a tragedy. If that makes me an extremist I don't know what else to say. Mrs x Yes that's it.. follow the crowd. What crowd,? You're not making sense. Mrs x" Definitions from Oxford Languages: adjective lacking a moral sense; unconcerned with the rightness or wrongness of something. Why are you blithering on? You've made it abundantly clear what your thoughts are | |||
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" You would say that because Your version of antisemitism is based on a misguided perspective and hatred to set a group of people over others and support illegal acts and injustice of a corrupt state. I'd say your a radicalised person It's not 'my' version, it's an internationally accepted definition that's been incorporated into the policies of many countries and institutions. There is an alternative version known as 'The Jerusalem Declaration', borne out of its criticism, that allows more scope to criticise zionism or Israel, but even with that definition, many people in these forums would still be guilty of antisemitism for their portrayal of the current situation. You must have a terrible headache from banging your head against this particular brick wall. I sympathise with you, it's hard work on here sometimes. Mrs x The only hard work is people like yourself ignoring basic human rights morals and human dignity.. for an ideological cause, no matter how you dress it up. Zionism you, midnight and Netenyahuvsees it is an abomination! and no different to horrible Isis, or and other extremist vile ideology. Ive seen the rhetoric of you and midnight from other exremists .. and I have moral integrity along with any other decent people no matter their faith. Midnight is a radical, your just lacking in decency to think otherwise So I'm an indecent extrememist now. How do you come to that conclusion? You are the guy who has fought in two conflicts proudly protecting war criminals in one and attacking Muslims in an unjust war in the other. All I've ever said is that I believe any country has the right to protect themselves from terrorist acts. I've also said that I don't necessarily agree with Israels tactics. I've also said all innocent lives lost is a tragedy. If that makes me an extremist I don't know what else to say. Mrs x Yes that's it.. follow the crowd. What crowd,? You're not making sense. Mrs x Definitions from Oxford Languages: adjective lacking a moral sense; unconcerned with the rightness or wrongness of something. Why are you blithering on? You've made it abundantly clear what your thoughts are " You just think it's not ok to kill one group of people but think it's perfectly acceptable to kill an other group. Not very balanced view you have there. Mrs x | |||
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"A bonkers question asked by poster asking why others don't regard the IHRA Working Definition of Antisemitism. I read the definitions and though some I agree with, though already covered by UK law, there are other clauses that give carte Blanche for Isreal to continue being a racist apartheid state, and also employ similar strategies to the Nazis without repercussions. It not only facilitates the continuation of the persecution of Palestinians in a conflict that also gets Isrealis killed, the Zionist project is also a pivotal cause of conflict expanding in the entire region, dragging other countries into the conflict. That's why I find some of the examples a dangerous , heavily biased and irresponsible, dishonest attempt to favour criminal acts, just like the guy who posed the question in the first place. " I would like to say you in the best possible way please stop giving these a platform for hate on here. Go to your M.P put these complaints to them these people mean nothing and there is nothing they can say except kill, and the reasons they have for it.. | |||
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" You would say that because Your version of antisemitism is based on a misguided perspective and hatred to set a group of people over others and support illegal acts and injustice of a corrupt state. I'd say your a radicalised person It's not 'my' version, it's an internationally accepted definition that's been incorporated into the policies of many countries and institutions. There is an alternative version known as 'The Jerusalem Declaration', borne out of its criticism, that allows more scope to criticise zionism or Israel, but even with that definition, many people in these forums would still be guilty of antisemitism for their portrayal of the current situation. You must have a terrible headache from banging your head against this particular brick wall. I sympathise with you, it's hard work on here sometimes. Mrs x The only hard work is people like yourself ignoring basic human rights morals and human dignity.. for an ideological cause, no matter how you dress it up. Zionism you, midnight and Netenyahuvsees it is an abomination! and no different to horrible Isis, or and other extremist vile ideology. Ive seen the rhetoric of you and midnight from other exremists .. and I have moral integrity along with any other decent people no matter their faith. Midnight is a radical, your just lacking in decency to think otherwise So I'm an indecent extrememist now. How do you come to that conclusion? You are the guy who has fought in two conflicts proudly protecting war criminals in one and attacking Muslims in an unjust war in the other. All I've ever said is that I believe any country has the right to protect themselves from terrorist acts. I've also said that I don't necessarily agree with Israels tactics. I've also said all innocent lives lost is a tragedy. If that makes me an extremist I don't know what else to say. Mrs x Yes that's it.. follow the crowd. What crowd,? You're not making sense. Mrs x" As usual newspeak your wrong and cannot admit it "I am against killing" ...... "but"....... get gone you. imo. | |||
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"The only hard work is people like yourself ignoring basic human rights morals and human dignity.. for an ideological cause, no matter how you dress it up. Zionism you, midnight and Netenyahuvsees it is an abomination! and no different to horrible Isis, or and other extremist vile ideology. Ive seen the rhetoric of you and midnight from other exremists .. and I have moral integrity along with any other decent people no matter their faith. Midnight is a radical, your just lacking in decency to think otherwise Zionism, as an idea, started as a refugee movement, it later on became more of an anti-colonialist movement. It seems to me that many of the leftist antisemites are all about 'refugees welcome' and defeating the historical chains of colonialism - except when it comes to Jews. They don't like Jews unless they can keep them as victims." Why has no one called you a baiter on this thread in the mist of a debated issue that you call anti what? I say this as referred to the actions of the present history we are debating and your referral to this term I do not what to justify it as you debate it. You're clever but not so, took you and some others to call me an anti what for calling out mass murder on an anti what thread I see that as a trap, but I have convictions that take me past that, I am more, just because I am human it is that simple. I am sorry but I have to simply ask what are you if you don't want to live and see others die. Please defend our right to live, your right to live please defend that. | |||
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"The only hard work is people like yourself ignoring basic human rights morals and human dignity.. for an ideological cause, no matter how you dress it up. Zionism you, midnight and Netenyahuvsees it is an abomination! and no different to horrible Isis, or and other extremist vile ideology. Ive seen the rhetoric of you and midnight from other exremists .. and I have moral integrity along with any other decent people no matter their faith. Midnight is a radical, your just lacking in decency to think otherwise Zionism, as an idea, started as a refugee movement, it later on became more of an anti-colonialist movement. It seems to me that many of the leftist antisemites are all about 'refugees welcome' and defeating the historical chains of colonialism - except when it comes to Jews. They don't like Jews unless they can keep them as victims. Why has no one called you a baiter on this thread in the mist of a debated issue that you call anti what? I say this as referred to the actions of the present history we are debating and your referral to this term I do not what to justify it as you debate it. You're clever but not so, took you and some others to call me an anti what for calling out mass murder on an anti what thread I see that as a trap, but I have convictions that take me past that, I am more, just because I am human it is that simple. I am sorry but I have to simply ask what are you if you don't want to live and see others die. Please defend our right to live, your right to live please defend that." Everyone has the right to live. All lost innocent lives are tragic, I've said this every time, you and others always seem to have not read this bit or choose to ignore it when I say this. So is that OK for you, have I defended the right to live sufficiently for you? I also defend the right to protect yourself and your people from attack and any sovereign state has the right to retaliate against aggression. What I won't defend is terrorism and Hamas are a terrorist organisation. So you ask something of me now I would like to ask the same thing. Could you condemn Hamas and all other terrorist groups unconditionally? Or do you think they are justified? Mrs x | |||
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"The only hard work is people like yourself ignoring basic human rights morals and human dignity.. for an ideological cause, no matter how you dress it up. Zionism you, midnight and Netenyahuvsees it is an abomination! and no different to horrible Isis, or and other extremist vile ideology. Ive seen the rhetoric of you and midnight from other exremists .. and I have moral integrity along with any other decent people no matter their faith. Midnight is a radical, your just lacking in decency to think otherwise Zionism, as an idea, started as a refugee movement, it later on became more of an anti-colonialist movement. It seems to me that many of the leftist antisemites are all about 'refugees welcome' and defeating the historical chains of colonialism - except when it comes to Jews. They don't like Jews unless they can keep them as victims. Why has no one called you a baiter on this thread in the mist of a debated issue that you call anti what? I say this as referred to the actions of the present history we are debating and your referral to this term I do not what to justify it as you debate it. You're clever but not so, took you and some others to call me an anti what for calling out mass murder on an anti what thread I see that as a trap, but I have convictions that take me past that, I am more, just because I am human it is that simple. I am sorry but I have to simply ask what are you if you don't want to live and see others die. Please defend our right to live, your right to live please defend that.Everyone has the right to live. All lost innocent lives are tragic, I've said this every time, you and others always seem to have not read this bit or choose to ignore it when I say this. So is that OK for you, have I defended the right to live sufficiently for you? I also defend the right to protect yourself and your people from attack and any sovereign state has the right to retaliate against aggression. What I won't defend is terrorism and Hamas are a terrorist organisation. So you ask something of me now I would like to ask the same thing. Could you condemn Hamas and all other terrorist groups unconditionally? Or do you think they are justified? Mrs x" To you I am anti semitic you have called me that, that is if you are sure of who you are talking to? Condem who? condemn what? are they killing thousands of people? What is it that I should condemn for you? The score is 1100 to 40,000 should I condemn that? Lost your home lately by gunpoint? Or if I do not condemn is that anti semitic? This is my last time giving you breath to justify the situation in Gaza that is what you are doing justifying the only way you can do this is with my help, so I will not be doing so again. | |||
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"The only hard work is people like yourself ignoring basic human rights morals and human dignity.. for an ideological cause, no matter how you dress it up. Zionism you, midnight and Netenyahuvsees it is an abomination! and no different to horrible Isis, or and other extremist vile ideology. Ive seen the rhetoric of you and midnight from other exremists .. and I have moral integrity along with any other decent people no matter their faith. Midnight is a radical, your just lacking in decency to think otherwise Zionism, as an idea, started as a refugee movement, it later on became more of an anti-colonialist movement. It seems to me that many of the leftist antisemites are all about 'refugees welcome' and defeating the historical chains of colonialism - except when it comes to Jews. They don't like Jews unless they can keep them as victims. Why has no one called you a baiter on this thread in the mist of a debated issue that you call anti what? I say this as referred to the actions of the present history we are debating and your referral to this term I do not what to justify it as you debate it. You're clever but not so, took you and some others to call me an anti what for calling out mass murder on an anti what thread I see that as a trap, but I have convictions that take me past that, I am more, just because I am human it is that simple. I am sorry but I have to simply ask what are you if you don't want to live and see others die. Please defend our right to live, your right to live please defend that.Everyone has the right to live. All lost innocent lives are tragic, I've said this every time, you and others always seem to have not read this bit or choose to ignore it when I say this. So is that OK for you, have I defended the right to live sufficiently for you? I also defend the right to protect yourself and your people from attack and any sovereign state has the right to retaliate against aggression. What I won't defend is terrorism and Hamas are a terrorist organisation. So you ask something of me now I would like to ask the same thing. Could you condemn Hamas and all other terrorist groups unconditionally? Or do you think they are justified? Mrs x To you I am anti semitic you have called me that, that is if you are sure of who you are talking to? Condem who? condemn what? are they killing thousands of people? What is it that I should condemn for you? The score is 1100 to 40,000 should I condemn that? Lost your home lately by gunpoint? Or if I do not condemn is that anti semitic? This is my last time giving you breath to justify the situation in Gaza that is what you are doing justifying the only way you can do this is with my help, so I will not be doing so again." So I condemn the killing of ALL innocent lives. You on the otherhand only condemn it one way. So you, by your own statements, are 'anti' one particular side. This being the Jews. So ergo you are by definition an antisemite. You can say what you want but until you condemn ALL sides for the killing of innocents and only choose to condemn Israel, this will not change. No I haven't had a gun pointed at me whilst being evicted but then again I've never had a government complex me to stay at home knowing that someone is on the way that might do that to me and my love ones. I also haven't witnessed my babies burnt to death in an oven either. Mrs x. | |||
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"There has been much deliberate killing on both sides of this argument, and I’m not in favour of any of it. I’ve never had to live through being bombed out of existence, I shudder to think about what it might be like. The time must surely has arrived for a cessation to all this violence. Hamas are not being killed, and the way to get them is not to kill the innocents they are hiding behind. Special forces should have been dressed up as refugees and sent to find them and kill them if that is what is necessary. They in turn were responsible for horrific crimes on the seventh. They murdered a lot of innocent Israelis, but is the answer to murder even more innocent Palestinians? IMO the cycle has to be broken, otherwise it will never end…" I agree wholeheartedly with you, the cycle should be broken. However the Arab nations do not want this to happen. They have pulled out of every negotiation for a peaceful settlement first. The 3 No's from Khartoum is still being used to stop any peace process. Sadly history keeps repeating itself. Mrs x | |||
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"Well the last few posts have been deleted. It seems being disgusted by an antisemitic member may be worse than actually being an antisemitic member. " I'm not antisemitic Mrs x | |||
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"Well the last few posts have been deleted. It seems being disgusted by an antisemitic member may be worse than actually being an antisemitic member. " Does sntisemetic mean anti Zionist? If so then some Jews are antisemic. Are you Jewish? | |||
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"Are Jews that are against Zionism antisemetic?" Not always, but Jewish antisemitism is definitely a thing - confusing to some, but it does exist. | |||
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"The vast majority of British Jews identify with Zionism, only 6% oppose it. If you actually read the posts you'll know that I'm not. Understanding Israel's history or standing against antisemitism should not be exclusive to Jews." If not Jewish then why are you do supportive of a state that commits war crimes like ethnic cleansing | |||
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"Well the last few posts have been deleted. It seems being disgusted by an antisemitic member may be worse than actually being an antisemitic member. I'm not antisemitic Mrs x" I was referring to a certain someone else, of course. | |||
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"The vast majority of British Jews identify with Zionism, only 6% oppose it. If you actually read the posts you'll know that I'm not. Understanding Israel's history or standing against antisemitism should not be exclusive to Jews. If not Jewish then why are you do supportive of a state that commits war crimes like ethnic cleansing " Go have a read and a catch up. I'm not wasting time on delivering history lessons for people too lazy to read up on the previous threads. | |||
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"Well the last few posts have been deleted. It seems being disgusted by an antisemitic member may be worse than actually being an antisemitic member. I'm not antisemitic Mrs x I was referring to a certain someone else, of course." I normally get a ban, so wondering what's upset admin enough to remove our last two posts? Mrs x | |||
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"Are Jews that are against Zionism antisemetic? Not always, but Jewish antisemitism is definitely a thing - confusing to some, but it does exist." So you condemn Jews that are not with the Zion programme and your not Jewish? | |||
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"Well the last few posts have been deleted. It seems being disgusted by an antisemitic member may be worse than actually being an antisemitic member. I'm not antisemitic Mrs x I was referring to a certain someone else, of course.I normally get a ban, so wondering what's upset admin enough to remove our last two posts? Mrs x" Because your typing rubbish? | |||
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"Are Jews that are against Zionism antisemetic? Not always, but Jewish antisemitism is definitely a thing - confusing to some, but it does exist. So you condemn Jews that are not with the Zion programme and your not Jewish? " Can you answer me a question please? How can it be ethnic cleansing if the population of Haza has grown over the years? Also if you are going to ethnic cleanse a group, why would you let 2 million of them live in your country and claim citizenship? Just like your thoughts on that. Mrs x | |||
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"Well the last few posts have been deleted. It seems being disgusted by an antisemitic member may be worse than actually being an antisemitic member. I'm not antisemitic Mrs x I was referring to a certain someone else, of course.I normally get a ban, so wondering what's upset admin enough to remove our last two posts? Mrs x Because your typing rubbish?" They haven't removed my other posts. Mrs x | |||
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"Well the last few posts have been deleted. It seems being disgusted by an antisemitic member may be worse than actually being an antisemitic member. I'm not antisemitic Mrs x I was referring to a certain someone else, of course.I normally get a ban, so wondering what's upset admin enough to remove our last two posts? Mrs x Because your typing rubbish?They haven't removed my other posts. Mrs x" Well I didn't see them . Am I antisemetic because I don't agree with Isreal's oppression of Gaza? | |||
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"Why is it okay to pen Gazans into an area and opress them? I'm against this and what Isreal is doing to them so am I antisemetic?" They did not pen them in. They built a fence to prevent suicide bombers crossing the borders to attack Israel. Egypt built a similar fence. Are you against them too. Or are Jeews the only ones not allowed to defend their borders? As to whether you are antisemitic, that depends if you only condemn actions from one side. It's OK to be appalled by the actions being committed in the region so long as you are appalled by both sides. If this is reserved for just the Jews then it's likely you are antisemitic. If that's not tge case then it's likely you are not antisemitic. Mrs x | |||
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"Well the last few posts have been deleted. It seems being disgusted by an antisemitic member may be worse than actually being an antisemitic member. I'm not antisemitic Mrs x I was referring to a certain someone else, of course.I normally get a ban, so wondering what's upset admin enough to remove our last two posts? Mrs x Because your typing rubbish?They haven't removed my other posts. Mrs x Well I didn't see them . Am I antisemetic because I don't agree with Isreal's oppression of Gaza? " And uet you accuse me of typing rubbish. You shortsightedness surprise me as I've only posted about a dozen times on this thread alone. Do you often form an opinion without reading around a subject? Mrs x | |||
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"Why is it okay to pen Gazans into an area and opress them? I'm against this and what Isreal is doing to them so am I antisemetic?" They hemmed themselves in by starting a war in 1947 and getting pushed back when they lost. Thw Gaza border is based on the ceasefire line from the subsequent 1948 invasion by other Arab states. Every attempt at making peace has been rejected by Arabs. Go and read a history book. | |||
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"Why is it okay to pen Gazans into an area..." That's a really great question! Gaza has two borders, one with Egypt and one with Israel. The effective government of Gaza refuses to recognise the state of Israel and has in its constitution that it will eradicate the state of Israel. Moreover, it routinely sends missiles/rockets into Israel. As a result, Israel enforces its border with Gaza and attempts to ensure that it cannot access materials of war. Most countries bordering a group dedicated to their destruction might enforce their borders in a similar manner. A better question is why Egypt does the same...? | |||
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"Why is it okay to pen Gazans into an area and opress them? I'm against this and what Isreal is doing to them so am I antisemetic?They did not pen them in. They built a fence to prevent suicide bombers crossing the borders to attack Israel. Egypt built a similar fence. Are you against them too. Or are Jeews the only ones not allowed to defend their borders? As to whether you are antisemitic, that depends if you only condemn actions from one side. It's OK to be appalled by the actions being committed in the region so long as you are appalled by both sides. If this is reserved for just the Jews then it's likely you are antisemitic. If that's not tge case then it's likely you are not antisemitic. Mrs x" Two things I don't understand The Gazans want to go back to the areas of isreal they were kicked out of so why won't the isralis let them do that instead of throwing them out And also if not penned in why are the isralis denying water food and medicine in? Effectively a blockade | |||
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"Many Gazans are descended from Egyptian Arabs who fled to escape conscription in 1830. At the start of WW1, the Ottoman army evicted 40,000 people from Gaza, forcing them to fight or die. Around the same time thousands of Jews were also evicted from Tel Aviv and Jaffa. If the Palestinians calmed the fuck down, they might realise that they would all be way better off under Israeli rule than Islamic rule." 2 million of them already do, Mrs x | |||
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"Many Gazans are descended from Egyptian Arabs who fled to escape conscription in 1830. At the start of WW1, the Ottoman army evicted 40,000 people from Gaza, forcing them to fight or die. Around the same time thousands of Jews were also evicted from Tel Aviv and Jaffa. If the Palestinians calmed the fuck down, they might realise that they would all be way better off under Israeli rule than Islamic rule." Are Gazans israli citizens though | |||
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"Why is it okay to pen Gazans into an area and opress them? I'm against this and what Isreal is doing to them so am I antisemetic?They did not pen them in. They built a fence to prevent suicide bombers crossing the borders to attack Israel. Egypt built a similar fence. Are you against them too. Or are Jeews the only ones not allowed to defend their borders? As to whether you are antisemitic, that depends if you only condemn actions from one side. It's OK to be appalled by the actions being committed in the region so long as you are appalled by both sides. If this is reserved for just the Jews then it's likely you are antisemitic. If that's not tge case then it's likely you are not antisemitic. Mrs x Two things I don't understand The Gazans want to go back to the areas of isreal they were kicked out of so why won't the isralis let them do that instead of throwing them out And also if not penned in why are the isralis denying water food and medicine in? Effectively a blockade " You've not been reading anything have you. Israel has only ever imported less than 10% of water into Gaza. If Hamas had taken care of its own water supply then maybe the Gazans would have adequate water but they chose to spend money elsewhere. You don't think the thousands of rockets they fire over into Israel are cheap do you? Mrs x | |||
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"Why is it okay to pen Gazans into an area and opress them? I'm against this and what Isreal is doing to them so am I antisemetic?They did not pen them in. They built a fence to prevent suicide bombers crossing the borders to attack Israel. Egypt built a similar fence. Are you against them too. Or are Jeews the only ones not allowed to defend their borders? As to whether you are antisemitic, that depends if you only condemn actions from one side. It's OK to be appalled by the actions being committed in the region so long as you are appalled by both sides. If this is reserved for just the Jews then it's likely you are antisemitic. If that's not tge case then it's likely you are not antisemitic. Mrs x Two things I don't understand The Gazans want to go back to the areas of isreal they were kicked out of so why won't the isralis let them do that instead of throwing them out And also if not penned in why are the isralis denying water food and medicine in? Effectively a blockade You've not been reading anything have you. Israel has only ever imported less than 10% of water into Gaza. If Hamas had taken care of its own water supply then maybe the Gazans would have adequate water but they chose to spend money elsewhere. You don't think the thousands of rockets they fire over into Israel are cheap do you? Mrs x" Also why isn't Egypt helping out their Arab brethren? Mrs x | |||
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" And also if not penned in why are the isralis denying water food and medicine in? Effectively a blockade " https://www.npr.org/2024/07/15/nx-s1-5035998/gaza-israel-food-aid-piling-up-not-reaching-those-in-need This explains things a little. If you're okay with news sources that are accused of leaning to the left a little. In short, it's a semi-lawless warzone at the moment. | |||
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" Are Gazans israli citizens though" Many get work permits and travel in and out, but unless the terrorist activities stop, they don't stand a chance in hell. The onus is on them to accept peace. | |||
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" Are Gazans israli citizens though Many get work permits and travel in and out, but unless the terrorist activities stop, they don't stand a chance in hell. The onus is on them to accept peace." 18.000 a day used to cross the border. I'm fairly certain 2 million Palestians live in Iarael proper. Mrs x | |||
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" Are Gazans israli citizens though Many get work permits and travel in and out, but unless the terrorist activities stop, they don't stand a chance in hell. The onus is on them to accept peace.18.000 a day used to cross the border. I'm fairly certain 2 million Palestians live in Iarael proper. Mrs x" But lots of them were forced out why are they not allowed to live in Isreal? | |||
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" Are Gazans israli citizens though Many get work permits and travel in and out, but unless the terrorist activities stop, they don't stand a chance in hell. The onus is on them to accept peace.18.000 a day used to cross the border. I'm fairly certain 2 million Palestians live in Iarael proper. Mrs x But lots of them were forced out why are they not allowed to live in Isreal? " Can you explain when this was so that can then explain what happened? Mrs x | |||
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"But lots of them were forced out why are they not allowed to live in Isreal? " Terrorism - i.e. suicide bombings and attacks on civilians. This is why there is a West Bank wall, this is why there is a strong border fence, this is why goods going in and out are monitored. | |||
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"the person who also describes the mindless massacre of civilians in Gaza as a case of "wash rinse repeat" says it all about his mindset. I describe the general Arab obsession as 'wash, rinse, repeat'. Every war in Israel was started by Arabs, and they lost every war too - and then used that loss to proclaim eternal victimhood. If you want peace, then don't start wars. However, this subject is about antisemitism, and the obsessive focus on Israel (to the exclusion of other conflicts) is part of that." If you don't want to occupy and evict native Palestinians and target them like shooting fish in a barrel and setting up kibbutzes by Americans and Ashkenazis former Soviet refuseniks kicking out families who've farmed there for centuries they don't expect the effing welcome mat either. Netanyahu is a war criminal and an animal. And yes, I'm not the only descendant of a Holocaust survivor who is disgusted by the current Israeli government. | |||
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" Oh right so you expect people to go along with those political shadey elements then. The definition was give to us by the IHRA - aka the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance. That's not some shady political organisation. Well let's look at one clause that has a more sinister meaning One clause.. an example of antisemitism is: * Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g [by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavour] Plus another clause: Not identifying contemporary isreali polies as being Nazi Both are odd to the point of being so specific it seems to cover particular activities the Isreali government would be up to The list ignores that under [international law], that Israel has been an illegally occupying power for years! It also doesnt bother to consider whether this right includes the right to create a state of Isreal by using ethnic cleansing, or the rights of actual residents forced out of their homes for rather flimsy claims by european Jews that their vaguely might have came from Isreal. It also is a convenient cover to facilitate Isreal's ambitions... : Create and maintain a system designed to oppress and dominate the Palestinians to privilege Jewish Israelis. A map of the area will show that the isralis segregating palestinians in enclaves to opress them more easily All backd up by discriminatory land and property seizures.. forced evictions and endless blockades. It's a poorly camouflaged intent that stands out! And that is why I won't support this extremist view. One appauling event is when the Israeli regime described all Gazans as human animals, and that there are no innocent civilians in Gaza.. or words to that effect! Take a look at the following link. Because you and the Zionist cause fits this ; https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/new-definition-of-extremism-2024/new-definition-of-extremism-2024 After all I have mentioned above, I really feel for the peace loving Jews around the world looking on in horror as their religion is being hijacked by fanatics " | |||
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" Oh right so you expect people to go along with those political shadey elements then. The definition was give to us by the IHRA - aka the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance. That's not some shady political organisation. Well let's look at one clause that has a more sinister meaning One clause.. an example of antisemitism is: * Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g [by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavour] Plus another clause: Not identifying contemporary isreali polies as being Nazi Both are odd to the point of being so specific it seems to cover particular activities the Isreali government would be up to The list ignores that under [international law], that Israel has been an illegally occupying power for years! It also doesnt bother to consider whether this right includes the right to create a state of Isreal by using ethnic cleansing, or the rights of actual residents forced out of their homes for rather flimsy claims by european Jews that their vaguely might have came from Isreal. It also is a convenient cover to facilitate Isreal's ambitions... : Create and maintain a system designed to oppress and dominate the Palestinians to privilege Jewish Israelis. A map of the area will show that the isralis segregating palestinians in enclaves to opress them more easily All backd up by discriminatory land and property seizures.. forced evictions and endless blockades. It's a poorly camouflaged intent that stands out! And that is why I won't support this extremist view. One appauling event is when the Israeli regime described all Gazans as human animals, and that there are no innocent civilians in Gaza.. or words to that effect! Take a look at the following link. Because you and the Zionist cause fits this ; https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/new-definition-of-extremism-2024/new-definition-of-extremism-2024 After all I have mentioned above, I really feel for the peace loving Jews around the world looking on in horror as their religion is being hijacked by fanatics "Same here. Ive been reading the UN website and they tell a different story to what Zion supporters say. Having the UN and courts declaring the Israeli occupation as illegal and issuing arrest warrants to the Israeli leader explains it all | |||
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"Why is it okay to pen Gazans into an area and opress them? I'm against this and what Isreal is doing to them so am I antisemetic?They did not pen them in. They built a fence to prevent suicide bombers crossing the borders to attack Israel. Egypt built a similar fence. Are you against them too. Or are Jeews the only ones not allowed to defend their borders? As to whether you are antisemitic, that depends if you only condemn actions from one side. It's OK to be appalled by the actions being committed in the region so long as you are appalled by both sides. If this is reserved for just the Jews then it's likely you are antisemitic. If that's not tge case then it's likely you are not antisemitic. Mrs x Two things I don't understand The Gazans want to go back to the areas of isreal they were kicked out of so why won't the isralis let them do that instead of throwing them out And also if not penned in why are the isralis denying water food and medicine in? Effectively a blockade You've not been reading anything have you. Israel has only ever imported less than 10% of water into Gaza. If Hamas had taken care of its own water supply then maybe the Gazans would have adequate water but they chose to spend money elsewhere. You don't think the thousands of rockets they fire over into Israel are cheap do you? Mrs xAlso why isn't Egypt helping out their Arab brethren? Mrs x" It's really about the West needing to stop arming and supporting a genocide. Egypt have been helping, unfortunately you Western media is beyond biased and it needs to keep a certain narrative going. | |||
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"Why is it okay to pen Gazans into an area and opress them? I'm against this and what Isreal is doing to them so am I antisemetic?They did not pen them in. They built a fence to prevent suicide bombers crossing the borders to attack Israel. Egypt built a similar fence. Are you against them too. Or are Jeews the only ones not allowed to defend their borders? As to whether you are antisemitic, that depends if you only condemn actions from one side. It's OK to be appalled by the actions being committed in the region so long as you are appalled by both sides. If this is reserved for just the Jews then it's likely you are antisemitic. If that's not tge case then it's likely you are not antisemitic. Mrs x Two things I don't understand The Gazans want to go back to the areas of isreal they were kicked out of so why won't the isralis let them do that instead of throwing them out And also if not penned in why are the isralis denying water food and medicine in? Effectively a blockade You've not been reading anything have you. Israel has only ever imported less than 10% of water into Gaza. If Hamas had taken care of its own water supply then maybe the Gazans would have adequate water but they chose to spend money elsewhere. You don't think the thousands of rockets they fire over into Israel are cheap do you? Mrs xAlso why isn't Egypt helping out their Arab brethren? Mrs x It's really about the West needing to stop arming and supporting a genocide. Egypt have been helping, unfortunately you Western media is beyond biased and it needs to keep a certain narrative going. " Genocide? If that's the case how do you explain how the population of Gaza has been growing. Doesn't fit with any definition of genocide I know. Also I know there has been a terrible loss of civilian life but this is always the case in urban warfare. I'm not condoning it but it's just a fact. The other thing that people talk about is 'ethnic cleansing". This too doesn't ring true when there are 2 million Palestinians living peacefully in Israel, some of whom actually make up members of their government. Not the typical actions of a state that's trying to ethnical cleanse anyone. How have Eygpt been helping exactly? Mrs x | |||
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"Why is it okay to pen Gazans into an area and opress them? I'm against this and what Isreal is doing to them so am I antisemetic?They did not pen them in. They built a fence to prevent suicide bombers crossing the borders to attack Israel. Egypt built a similar fence. Are you against them too. Or are Jeews the only ones not allowed to defend their borders? As to whether you are antisemitic, that depends if you only condemn actions from one side. It's OK to be appalled by the actions being committed in the region so long as you are appalled by both sides. If this is reserved for just the Jews then it's likely you are antisemitic. If that's not tge case then it's likely you are not antisemitic. Mrs x Two things I don't understand The Gazans want to go back to the areas of isreal they were kicked out of so why won't the isralis let them do that instead of throwing them out And also if not penned in why are the isralis denying water food and medicine in? Effectively a blockade You've not been reading anything have you. Israel has only ever imported less than 10% of water into Gaza. If Hamas had taken care of its own water supply then maybe the Gazans would have adequate water but they chose to spend money elsewhere. You don't think the thousands of rockets they fire over into Israel are cheap do you? Mrs xAlso why isn't Egypt helping out their Arab brethren? Mrs x It's really about the West needing to stop arming and supporting a genocide. Egypt have been helping, unfortunately you Western media is beyond biased and it needs to keep a certain narrative going. Genocide? If that's the case how do you explain how the population of Gaza has been growing. Doesn't fit with any definition of genocide I know. Also I know there has been a terrible loss of civilian life but this is always the case in urban warfare. I'm not condoning it but it's just a fact. The other thing that people talk about is 'ethnic cleansing". This too doesn't ring true when there are 2 million Palestinians living peacefully in Israel, some of whom actually make up members of their government. Not the typical actions of a state that's trying to ethnical cleanse anyone. How have Eygpt been helping exactly? Mrs x" I've looked this up. And on wilkapedi I found this Israel enforces restrictions on the freedom of movement of Palestinians in the West Bank by employing a system of permanent, temporary and random manned checkpoints, the West Bank Barrier and by forbidding the usage of roads by Palestinians. | |||
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"Why is it okay to pen Gazans into an area and opress them? I'm against this and what Isreal is doing to them so am I antisemetic?They did not pen them in. They built a fence to prevent suicide bombers crossing the borders to attack Israel. Egypt built a similar fence. Are you against them too. Or are Jeews the only ones not allowed to defend their borders? As to whether you are antisemitic, that depends if you only condemn actions from one side. It's OK to be appalled by the actions being committed in the region so long as you are appalled by both sides. If this is reserved for just the Jews then it's likely you are antisemitic. If that's not tge case then it's likely you are not antisemitic. Mrs x Two things I don't understand The Gazans want to go back to the areas of isreal they were kicked out of so why won't the isralis let them do that instead of throwing them out And also if not penned in why are the isralis denying water food and medicine in? Effectively a blockade You've not been reading anything have you. Israel has only ever imported less than 10% of water into Gaza. If Hamas had taken care of its own water supply then maybe the Gazans would have adequate water but they chose to spend money elsewhere. You don't think the thousands of rockets they fire over into Israel are cheap do you? Mrs xAlso why isn't Egypt helping out their Arab brethren? Mrs x It's really about the West needing to stop arming and supporting a genocide. Egypt have been helping, unfortunately you Western media is beyond biased and it needs to keep a certain narrative going. Genocide? If that's the case how do you explain how the population of Gaza has been growing. Doesn't fit with any definition of genocide I know. Also I know there has been a terrible loss of civilian life but this is always the case in urban warfare. I'm not condoning it but it's just a fact. The other thing that people talk about is 'ethnic cleansing". This too doesn't ring true when there are 2 million Palestinians living peacefully in Israel, some of whom actually make up members of their government. Not the typical actions of a state that's trying to ethnical cleanse anyone. How have Eygpt been helping exactly? Mrs x" Your response is why I don't usually like getting involved in online discussions. Our views are too far apart for me to really engage. Please put your question into a search engine, I promise you will find out what Egypt has done. Also check out the International courts latest ruling, it might make you understand why it's being called what it rightly and disgustingly is, a genocide. | |||
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"Why is it okay to pen Gazans into an area and opress them? I'm against this and what Isreal is doing to them so am I antisemetic?They did not pen them in. They built a fence to prevent suicide bombers crossing the borders to attack Israel. Egypt built a similar fence. Are you against them too. Or are Jeews the only ones not allowed to defend their borders? As to whether you are antisemitic, that depends if you only condemn actions from one side. It's OK to be appalled by the actions being committed in the region so long as you are appalled by both sides. If this is reserved for just the Jews then it's likely you are antisemitic. If that's not tge case then it's likely you are not antisemitic. Mrs x Two things I don't understand The Gazans want to go back to the areas of isreal they were kicked out of so why won't the isralis let them do that instead of throwing them out And also if not penned in why are the isralis denying water food and medicine in? Effectively a blockade You've not been reading anything have you. Israel has only ever imported less than 10% of water into Gaza. If Hamas had taken care of its own water supply then maybe the Gazans would have adequate water but they chose to spend money elsewhere. You don't think the thousands of rockets they fire over into Israel are cheap do you? Mrs xAlso why isn't Egypt helping out their Arab brethren? Mrs x It's really about the West needing to stop arming and supporting a genocide. Egypt have been helping, unfortunately you Western media is beyond biased and it needs to keep a certain narrative going. Genocide? If that's the case how do you explain how the population of Gaza has been growing. Doesn't fit with any definition of genocide I know. Also I know there has been a terrible loss of civilian life but this is always the case in urban warfare. I'm not condoning it but it's just a fact. The other thing that people talk about is 'ethnic cleansing". This too doesn't ring true when there are 2 million Palestinians living peacefully in Israel, some of whom actually make up members of their government. Not the typical actions of a state that's trying to ethnical cleanse anyone. How have Eygpt been helping exactly? Mrs x Your response is why I don't usually like getting involved in online discussions. Our views are too far apart for me to really engage. Please put your question into a search engine, I promise you will find out what Egypt has done. Also check out the International courts latest ruling, it might make you understand why it's being called what it rightly and disgustingly is, a genocide. " Think you are getting confused. The ICJ has made a preliminary ruling, in May about whether the war in Gaza is an act of genocide. In this preliminary hearing it warned Israel to not conduct any actions which may be considered genocidal but it did not say Israel should halt the war or that the war was genocidal. It just warned Israel not to committ acts which could be genocidal. This case was brought to the court by South Africa. Fridays decision relates to the occupation of the West Bank by Israel and settler communities. So right now there's no ruling on genocide in Gaza. As for Egypt helping, other than their mediation role I cannot find examples of any 'physical' assistance to Haza or the ordinary Palestinian citizens. Rather than just saying Google ot, could you give your side of the debate. Mrs x | |||
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"Why is it okay to pen Gazans into an area and opress them? I'm against this and what Isreal is doing to them so am I antisemetic?They did not pen them in. They built a fence to prevent suicide bombers crossing the borders to attack Israel. Egypt built a similar fence. Are you against them too. Or are Jeews the only ones not allowed to defend their borders? As to whether you are antisemitic, that depends if you only condemn actions from one side. It's OK to be appalled by the actions being committed in the region so long as you are appalled by both sides. If this is reserved for just the Jews then it's likely you are antisemitic. If that's not tge case then it's likely you are not antisemitic. Mrs x Two things I don't understand The Gazans want to go back to the areas of isreal they were kicked out of so why won't the isralis let them do that instead of throwing them out And also if not penned in why are the isralis denying water food and medicine in? Effectively a blockade You've not been reading anything have you. Israel has only ever imported less than 10% of water into Gaza. If Hamas had taken care of its own water supply then maybe the Gazans would have adequate water but they chose to spend money elsewhere. You don't think the thousands of rockets they fire over into Israel are cheap do you? Mrs xAlso why isn't Egypt helping out their Arab brethren? Mrs x It's really about the West needing to stop arming and supporting a genocide. Egypt have been helping, unfortunately you Western media is beyond biased and it needs to keep a certain narrative going. Genocide? If that's the case how do you explain how the population of Gaza has been growing. Doesn't fit with any definition of genocide I know. Also I know there has been a terrible loss of civilian life but this is always the case in urban warfare. I'm not condoning it but it's just a fact. The other thing that people talk about is 'ethnic cleansing". This too doesn't ring true when there are 2 million Palestinians living peacefully in Israel, some of whom actually make up members of their government. Not the typical actions of a state that's trying to ethnical cleanse anyone. How have Eygpt been helping exactly? Mrs x Your response is why I don't usually like getting involved in online discussions. Our views are too far apart for me to really engage. Please put your question into a search engine, I promise you will find out what Egypt has done. Also check out the International courts latest ruling, it might make you understand why it's being called what it rightly and disgustingly is, a genocide. " Exactly!
Plus when that butcher Benzion Mileikowsky goes to the USA in front of Congress making his sickening speech full of lies and other bullcrap, could explain why 60% of arable land in Gaza has been bulldozed for reasons other than engineering a famine.
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"Hiya Dan, missed you. Been anywhere nice Mrs x"Yes thanks..  nice to see you read up my posts andnalso your no newbie either.
I've also been busy watching TV and the evil antisemetic Jews in red t shirts who are demonstrating in America against your hero.
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"Every knows you are my hero, Mrs x" Oh of course I am. | |||
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"Every knows you are my hero, Mrs x Oh of course I am. " You know you are, Mrs x | |||
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"Every knows you are my hero, Mrs x Oh of course I am. You know you are, Mrs x" We can watch TV together.. Watch Mileikowsky get a warm reception from the Jews in red t shirts | |||
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"Every knows you are my hero, Mrs x Oh of course I am. You know you are, Mrs x We can watch TV together.. Watch Mileikowsky get a warm reception from the Jews in red t shirts "Don't watch tv. Spend all my spare time on here admiring what you've written, Mrs x | |||
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"Every knows you are my hero, Mrs x Oh of course I am. You know you are, Mrs x We can watch TV together.. Watch Mileikowsky get a warm reception from the Jews in red t shirts Don't watch tv. Spend all my spare time on here admiring what you've written,
Mrs x"That's great try reading some material the UN has published | |||
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"Every knows you are my hero, Mrs x Oh of course I am. You know you are, Mrs x We can watch TV together.. Watch Mileikowsky get a warm reception from the Jews in red t shirts Don't watch tv. Spend all my spare time on here admiring what you've written,
Mrs x
That's great try reading some material the UN has published "Oh get a room, you two. The war in Gaza is a genocide by any other name. As a descendant of a Jew who escaped the Nazis, who was open-minded, secular and had zero interest in Israel, he'd have been properly horrified. Plenty of Mizrahi and Sefardi Jews in Israel are horrified. As are Jews (Ashkenazi, Mizrahi, Ethiopian, Sefardi, Hasidim and Lubovitchers) are horrified and protesting overseas. It's genocide. Pure and simple. Nevermind the miminy-piminy bureaucracy defining what's what. Netanyahu is a power hungry animal clinging on to power and egging on IDF. | |||
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"Every knows you are my hero, Mrs x Oh of course I am. You know you are, Mrs x We can watch TV together.. Watch Mileikowsky get a warm reception from the Jews in red t shirts Don't watch tv. Spend all my spare time on here admiring what you've written,
Mrs x
That's great try reading some material the UN has published
Oh get a room, you two.
The war in Gaza is a genocide by any other name. As a descendant of a Jew who escaped the Nazis, who was open-minded, secular and had zero interest in Israel, he'd have been properly horrified.
Plenty of Mizrahi and Sefardi Jews in Israel are horrified.
As are Jews (Ashkenazi, Mizrahi, Ethiopian, Sefardi, Hasidim and Lubovitchers) are horrified and protesting overseas.
It's genocide. Pure and simple. Nevermind the miminy-piminy bureaucracy defining what's what. Netanyahu is a power hungry animal clinging on to power and egging on IDF.
"WELL SAID!!!!!!!!!! | |||
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" Plenty of Mizrahi and Sefardi Jews in Israel are horrified. " Upon what do you base that? Aren't the bulk of that demographic part of his coalition? " As are Jews (Ashkenazi, Mizrahi, Ethiopian, Sefardi, Hasidim and Lubovitchers) are horrified and protesting overseas. " Getting back to the topic, do you feel that those people are encountering escalating antisemitism (whether or not they protest)? | |||
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"Every knows you are my hero, Mrs x Oh of course I am. You know you are, Mrs x We can watch TV together.. Watch Mileikowsky get a warm reception from the Jews in red t shirts Don't watch tv. Spend all my spare time on here admiring what you've written,
Mrs x
That's great try reading some material the UN has published
Oh get a room, you two.
The war in Gaza is a genocide by any other name. As a descendant of a Jew who escaped the Nazis, who was open-minded, secular and had zero interest in Israel, he'd have been properly horrified.
Plenty of Mizrahi and Sefardi Jews in Israel are horrified.
As are Jews (Ashkenazi, Mizrahi, Ethiopian, Sefardi, Hasidim and Lubovitchers) are horrified and protesting overseas.
It's genocide. Pure and simple. Nevermind the miminy-piminy bureaucracy defining what's what. Netanyahu is a power hungry animal clinging on to power and egging on IDF.
WELL SAID!!!!!!!!!!" | |||
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" Plenty of Mizrahi and Sefardi Jews in Israel are horrified. Upon what do you base that? Aren't the bulk of that demographic part of his coalition? As are Jews (Ashkenazi, Mizrahi, Ethiopian, Sefardi, Hasidim and Lubovitchers) are horrified and protesting overseas. Getting back to the topic, do you feel that those people are encountering escalating antisemitism (whether or not they protest)?" This is incredible.. a non Jew criticising / lecturing a non Jew ? | |||
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" Plenty of Mizrahi and Sefardi Jews in Israel are horrified. Upon what do you base that? Aren't the bulk of that demographic part of his coalition? As are Jews (Ashkenazi, Mizrahi, Ethiopian, Sefardi, Hasidim and Lubovitchers) are horrified and protesting overseas. Getting back to the topic, do you feel that those people are encountering escalating antisemitism (whether or not they protest)? This is incredible.. a non Jew criticising / lecturing a non Jew ? " Eh? | |||
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"Every knows you are my hero, Mrs x Oh of course I am. You know you are, Mrs x We can watch TV together.. Watch Mileikowsky get a warm reception from the Jews in red t shirts Don't watch tv. Spend all my spare time on here admiring what you've written,
Mrs x
That's great try reading some material the UN has published "I have but it's not as good as yours. MRrs x | |||
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" Plenty of Mizrahi and Sefardi Jews in Israel are horrified. Upon what do you base that? Aren't the bulk of that demographic part of his coalition? As are Jews (Ashkenazi, Mizrahi, Ethiopian, Sefardi, Hasidim and Lubovitchers) are horrified and protesting overseas. Getting back to the topic, do you feel that those people are encountering escalating antisemitism (whether or not they protest)? This is incredible.. a non Jew criticising / lecturing a non Jew ? Eh?" This is the level of debate on here, if nothing else it's good for a laugh, Mrs x | |||
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" Plenty of Mizrahi and Sefardi Jews in Israel are horrified. Upon what do you base that? Aren't the bulk of that demographic part of his coalition? As are Jews (Ashkenazi, Mizrahi, Ethiopian, Sefardi, Hasidim and Lubovitchers) are horrified and protesting overseas. Getting back to the topic, do you feel that those people are encountering escalating antisemitism (whether or not they protest)? This is incredible.. a non Jew criticising / lecturing a non Jew ? Eh?This is the level of debate on here, if nothing else it's good for a laugh, Mrs x" Laughing.. while people die.. Unbelievable!! | |||
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" Plenty of Mizrahi and Sefardi Jews in Israel are horrified. Upon what do you base that? Aren't the bulk of that demographic part of his coalition? As are Jews (Ashkenazi, Mizrahi, Ethiopian, Sefardi, Hasidim and Lubovitchers) are horrified and protesting overseas. Getting back to the topic, do you feel that those people are encountering escalating antisemitism (whether or not they protest)? This is incredible.. a non Jew criticising / lecturing a non Jew ? Eh?This is the level of debate on here, if nothing else it's good for a laugh, Mrs x Laughing.. while people die.. Unbelievable!!" If you think I'm laughing about that then, it's clearly gone over your head. Mrs x | |||
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" Plenty of Mizrahi and Sefardi Jews in Israel are horrified. Upon what do you base that? Aren't the bulk of that demographic part of his coalition? As are Jews (Ashkenazi, Mizrahi, Ethiopian, Sefardi, Hasidim and Lubovitchers) are horrified and protesting overseas. Getting back to the topic, do you feel that those people are encountering escalating antisemitism (whether or not they protest)? This is incredible.. a non Jew criticising / lecturing a non Jew ? Eh?This is the level of debate on here, if nothing else it's good for a laugh, Mrs x Laughing.. while people die.. Unbelievable!! If you think I'm laughing about that then, it's clearly gone over your head. Mrs x" What's gone over your head is common decency and justice.. both morally and legal. I've called it out as genocide and being attacked by eople on here I'll not mention their names.. all non Jewish, Now that a person of Jewish consent has called it a genocide.. those who've berated me fall silent. Says a lot really. | |||
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" Plenty of Mizrahi and Sefardi Jews in Israel are horrified. Upon what do you base that? Aren't the bulk of that demographic part of his coalition? As are Jews (Ashkenazi, Mizrahi, Ethiopian, Sefardi, Hasidim and Lubovitchers) are horrified and protesting overseas. Getting back to the topic, do you feel that those people are encountering escalating antisemitism (whether or not they protest)? This is incredible.. a non Jew criticising / lecturing a non Jew ? Eh?This is the level of debate on here, if nothing else it's good for a laugh, Mrs x Laughing.. while people die.. Unbelievable!! If you think I'm laughing about that then, it's clearly gone over your head. Mrs x What's gone over your head is common decency and justice.. both morally and legal. I've called it out as genocide and being attacked by eople on here I'll not mention their names.. all non Jewish, Now that a person of Jewish consent has called it a genocide.. those who've berated me fall silent. Says a lot really. " The person of Jewish 'descent' was not necessarily Jewish, as they said their descendant was secular. As the genocide ruling from the ICJ has not been delivered yet, so as of right now it's not been declared a genocide. Why you've said I lack common decency and justice, both morally and legally seems a little unfair given I'm the obly one to condemn innocent deaths on both sides. But I do love it when you say a lot, it brings a smile to my face. Mrs x | |||
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" Plenty of Mizrahi and Sefardi Jews in Israel are horrified. Upon what do you base that? Aren't the bulk of that demographic part of his coalition? As are Jews (Ashkenazi, Mizrahi, Ethiopian, Sefardi, Hasidim and Lubovitchers) are horrified and protesting overseas. Getting back to the topic, do you feel that those people are encountering escalating antisemitism (whether or not they protest)? This is incredible.. a non Jew criticising / lecturing a non Jew ? Eh?This is the level of debate on here, if nothing else it's good for a laugh, Mrs x Laughing.. while people die.. Unbelievable!! If you think I'm laughing about that then, it's clearly gone over your head. Mrs x What's gone over your head is common decency and justice.. both morally and legal. I've called it out as genocide and being attacked by eople on here I'll not mention their names.. all non Jewish, Now that a person of Jewish consent has called it a genocide.. those who've berated me fall silent. Says a lot really. The person of Jewish 'descent' was not necessarily Jewish, as they said their descendant was secular. As the genocide ruling from the ICJ has not been delivered yet, so as of right now it's not been declared a genocide. Why you've said I lack common decency and justice, both morally and legally seems a little unfair given I'm the obly one to condemn innocent deaths on both sides. But I do love it when you say a lot, it brings a smile to my face. Mrs x" Al Ive hd from the likes of yourself is excuses to make an exception to universal international law on human rights. And sadly on occasion hiding behind the flag of antisemitism when called out. International law and human rights should never come second place to any ideology .. what hamas did was an atrocity, which is why the ICC issued an arrest warrant for sanwar as well as Mileikowsky. If you truly believe in universal justice you'd welcome both judgements but you don't. I have seen 1st hand the atrocities committed before, under another flag , same horrors same ideological excuses .. same old cobblers. I've heard yours and others rhetoric on here and there's no place for it. That's the reason why the UN ICC and ICJ were set up. Do go on .. have your little laugh.. I don't care about you, what I care about is beyond your understanding. | |||
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"Why is it okay to pen Gazans into an area... That's a really great question! Gaza has two borders, one with Egypt and one with Israel. The effective government of Gaza refuses to recognise the state of Israel and has in its constitution that it will eradicate the state of Israel. Moreover, it routinely sends missiles/rockets into Israel. As a result, Israel enforces its border with Gaza and attempts to ensure that it cannot access materials of war. Most countries bordering a group dedicated to their destruction might enforce their borders in a similar manner. A better question is why Egypt does the same...?" Just seen this.. the Gaza constitution? FFS.. why are you bringing up an hypothetical generic when there's an actual genocide taking place?!! FFS | |||
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"Why is it okay to pen Gazans into an area... That's a really great question! Gaza has two borders, one with Egypt and one with Israel. The effective government of Gaza refuses to recognise the state of Israel and has in its constitution that it will eradicate the state of Israel. Moreover, it routinely sends missiles/rockets into Israel. As a result, Israel enforces its border with Gaza and attempts to ensure that it cannot access materials of war. Most countries bordering a group dedicated to their destruction might enforce their borders in a similar manner. A better question is why Egypt does the same...? Just seen this.. the Gaza constitution? FFS.. why are you bringing up an hypothetical generic when there's an actual genocide taking place?!! FFS "Sorry, what was your question? | |||
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"Why is it okay to pen Gazans into an area... That's a really great question! Gaza has two borders, one with Egypt and one with Israel. The effective government of Gaza refuses to recognise the state of Israel and has in its constitution that it will eradicate the state of Israel. Moreover, it routinely sends missiles/rockets into Israel. As a result, Israel enforces its border with Gaza and attempts to ensure that it cannot access materials of war. Most countries bordering a group dedicated to their destruction might enforce their borders in a similar manner. A better question is why Egypt does the same...? Just seen this.. the Gaza constitution? FFS.. why are you bringing up an hypothetical generic when there's an actual genocide taking place?!! FFS "But it's not a hypothetical generic anything. It's real. Hamas wants to eradicate Iarael and the Jews, it's true but you refuse to accept this. Mrs x | |||
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