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What could Tories have done differently?
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Between 2019 (healthy majority) and 2024 (projected relative wipeout), what went wrong? Was it because Brexit was delivered, so the right moved on to reform? Infighting? Trussonomics? Partygate? Labour put up a viable candidate? All of the above? It cannot be as simple as "the last 14 years", rather something happened in the past five.
What was it? Opinions? |
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"Between 2019 (healthy majority) and 2024 (projected relative wipeout), what went wrong? Was it because Brexit was delivered, so the right moved on to reform? Infighting? Trussonomics? Partygate? Labour put up a viable candidate? All of the above? It cannot be as simple as "the last 14 years", rather something happened in the past five.
What was it? Opinions?"
They have been playing the same game for a long while, blaming immigrants for everything, then telling people to vote Tory, then doing nothing. They finally over egged it and people moved to a more extreme version of the Tories hoping that that wouldn't do the same rince and repeat over and over (they definitely would). |
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By (user no longer on site) 22 weeks ago
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"Between 2019 (healthy majority) and 2024 (projected relative wipeout), what went wrong? Was it because Brexit was delivered, so the right moved on to reform? Infighting? Trussonomics? Partygate? Labour put up a viable candidate? All of the above? It cannot be as simple as "the last 14 years", rather something happened in the past five.
What was it? Opinions?"
not going against Corbyn. |
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They've been largely self-serving, since 2010 PMs. Retention of power was their focus, rather than the wellbeing of the people and the country. With a rabid group of people I'd wish on nobody to try to manage, they've imploded, as factions have been given too much undue power to influence direction. Car crash leaders  . People are worse off after 14 years and without concerns from the top. |
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By *irldnCouple 22 weeks ago
Brighton |
"Between 2019 (healthy majority) and 2024 (projected relative wipeout), what went wrong? Was it because Brexit was delivered, so the right moved on to reform? Infighting? Trussonomics? Partygate? Labour put up a viable candidate? All of the above? It cannot be as simple as "the last 14 years", rather something happened in the past five.
What was it? Opinions?"
Two words:
Johnson
Truss
|
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"Between 2019 (healthy majority) and 2024 (projected relative wipeout), what went wrong? Was it because Brexit was delivered, so the right moved on to reform? Infighting? Trussonomics? Partygate? Labour put up a viable candidate? All of the above? It cannot be as simple as "the last 14 years", rather something happened in the past five.
What was it? Opinions?"
What must be remembered is that the majority in 2019 was due to the one issue election, ie Brexit. All things being equal, red walls would be set to return in this election.
But things haven't been equal. We got PMs not elected by the electorate (I know the party always elects their leader but you know what I mean).
For some people covid was mishandled, for others, furlough and lockdown was wellhandled. No-one can say nepotism, handouts to their own, sleaze, betting etc etc etc done them any favours. The tories have destroyed themselves |
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By *irldnCouple 22 weeks ago
Brighton |
"4 answers so far:
The anti immigrants went to Reform
Labour put up a non-Corbyn candidate
"The past 14 years"
The double train wreck of Boris & Liz
Consensus? Not likely."
People were (and are still) very angry by the cavalier disregard and do as I say not as I do approach to the Covid rules, and the level of corruption, real or perceived, around the PPE scandal. The Tories were seen as greedy thieving piggies with their snouts in the trough.
Plus two unelected PMs didn’t help. |
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By *irldnCouple 22 weeks ago
Brighton |
"Between 2019 (healthy majority) and 2024 (projected relative wipeout), what went wrong? Was it because Brexit was delivered, so the right moved on to reform? Infighting? Trussonomics? Partygate? Labour put up a viable candidate? All of the above? It cannot be as simple as "the last 14 years", rather something happened in the past five.
What was it? Opinions?
What must be remembered is that the majority in 2019 was due to the one issue election, ie Brexit. All things being equal, red walls would be set to return in this election.
But things haven't been equal. We got PMs not elected by the electorate (I know the party always elects their leader but you know what I mean).
For some people covid was mishandled, for others, furlough and lockdown was wellhandled. No-one can say nepotism, handouts to their own, sleaze, betting etc etc etc done them any favours. The tories have destroyed themselves"
Amen to that  |
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"- Too much in-fighting
- Too much sleaze
- Too much arrogance
- Too much incompetence
Did I miss anything?"
That didn't change much since the last couple of elections. Why would that suddenly sway Tory voters now? |
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By *irldnCouple 22 weeks ago
Brighton |
"- Too much in-fighting
- Too much sleaze
- Too much arrogance
- Too much incompetence
Did I miss anything?
That didn't change much since the last couple of elections. Why would that suddenly sway Tory voters now?"
Johnny lighten up if only for today. The Tories are gone. Wiped out. Embarrassingly so. |
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"- Too much in-fighting
- Too much sleaze
- Too much arrogance
- Too much incompetence
Did I miss anything?
That didn't change much since the last couple of elections. Why would that suddenly sway Tory voters now?
Johnny lighten up if only for today. The Tories are gone. Wiped out. Embarrassingly so. "
For sure. Don't think it's because they're incompetent. |
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It's mostly saying something and doing something else. Sunak came in with 5 promises. If he had fulfilled those promises, Tories would have retained their votes.
For regulat Tory voters, it's immigration. They failed on both illegal and legal immigration. If a party repeatedly talks about reducing immigration and goes on to allow over a million net immigration in two years, who would trust them anymore? |
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"It's mostly saying something and doing something else. Sunak came in with 5 promises. If he had fulfilled those promises, Tories would have retained their votes.
For regulat Tory voters, it's immigration. They failed on both illegal and legal immigration. If a party repeatedly talks about reducing immigration and goes on to allow over a million net immigration in two years, who would trust them anymore?"
no one tbf I think they will have to rebrand |
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"- Too much in-fighting
- Too much sleaze
- Too much arrogance
- Too much incompetence
Did I miss anything?"
Saying this as someone with right of centre views, I’d say this is largely correct. The reason they didn’t get my vote is that they reverted to type with factional in-fighting and defenestrating the leadership over and over. What they failed to realise was that they were elected in 2019 as they were, and if they had stuck with that they would have been largely successful last night, but instead they just started pulling in different directions to the frustration of the people who trusted the to do what they voted for.
Idiots like Hancock exist in politics all round. I was watching the GB News coverage last night and they had Geoff Hoon on along with a clearly very angry James Heappy. Hoon started waxing lyrical about his 6 years as defence secretary and everything he (brilliantly) did and Heappy reminded him that he was serving in Iraq at the time and all of his failures as Def Sec and that also he was (amongst the forces) the most hated Def Sec of all time (I wish he’d also said and your nickname was TCH - The C.nt Hoon). My point being, all parties have their utter waster sleazeballs. Labour has them, and will now have many more, mark my words on that.
I don’t think the Tories, through the procurement of PPE, were sleazy or out for themselves. What I think is that Labour are very good at maligning the Tories because it’s still close eneough to the 90’s for everyone to still remember the Hamiltons and brown envelopes. All sides got caught in the expenses scandal. Don’t think you won’t see some Labour MPs lining their own pockets in the next 5 years.
Incompetence will come to Labour too. It’s easy to criticise a government that is hamstrung by the civil service. Labour will want to do things that the CS will frustrate, incompetently mishandle, or just outright block. Plus they will have their swivel headed loons. If Lammy becomes Foreign Sec, be worried.
Starmer will be hamstrung too because of the socialist model of Labour. It will be in the back rooms and the mysoginist old boys union network will take control of the committees that decide on the make up of the committee that makes the decisions and his power base will gradually shift away.
Let’s see what we are all saying when he’s yet another 1 term PM in a 1 term labour government, which by and large will be Labour’s history repeating itself much as the Tory’s did last night. |
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By *uietbloke67Man 22 weeks ago
outside your bedroom window ;-) |
"The biggest impact to the Tory government was Cummings, he exposed the rot and brought down Johnson and then Hancock, which then created the domino effect."
The biggest impact to the Tory government was actually Cameron, he will eventually be seen as a charlatan in a suite, how he still holds any respect is beyind me.
The brexit vote opened the door and empowered fringe ultra right wing groups to influence and the media has been courting it every since.
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By *otMe66Man 22 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
"The biggest impact to the Tory government was Cummings, he exposed the rot and brought down Johnson and then Hancock, which then created the domino effect.
The biggest impact to the Tory government was actually Cameron, he will eventually be seen as a charlatan in a suite, how he still holds any respect is beyind me.
The brexit vote opened the door and empowered fringe ultra right wing groups to influence and the media has been courting it every since.
"
He has a part to play, but he did get rid of Cummings, only for Johnson to bring him back |
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By *irldnCouple 22 weeks ago
Brighton |
"I don’t think the Tories, through the procurement of PPE, were sleazy or out for themselves."
What are you smoking Walt?
It was theft right in front of our eyes excuses by the pandemic. Truly hope a proper investigation is undertaken rather than a whitewash. |
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The Tories got in in 2019 because of the blue wall. People in those areas felt that they had been ignored by Labour for years and taken for granted. If the Tories had actually delivered on fulfilling some of their promises and aspirations for”the North” they would have cemented a generational power base. They did the complete opposite. They went inwards. They bickered and argued over things no one cared about. |
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"I don’t think the Tories, through the procurement of PPE, were sleazy or out for themselves.
What are you smoking Walt?
It was theft right in front of our eyes excuses by the pandemic. Truly hope a proper investigation is undertaken rather than a whitewash. "
I don’t doubt it, but the issue is theft by whom? Tory ministers? No. Baroness Mone? Possibly but she was elevated for being a donor not necessarily a holder of political office.
Reform of the HoL as a consequence? Most definately.
Labout imminune from the possibility? Hmmmm Bernie Ecclestone and the exepction of F1 from the then tobacco advertising bans….. |
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"The Tories got in in 2019 because of the blue wall. People in those areas felt that they had been ignored by Labour for years and taken for granted. If the Tories had actually delivered on fulfilling some of their promises and aspirations for”the North” they would have cemented a generational power base. They did the complete opposite. They went inwards. They bickered and argued over things no one cared about."
The interesting thing is when you hear the old tropes about “Tory entitlement” like we are still living in the 19th C especially when many of the Labour politicians so keen to pull up the ladder on private education were beneficiaries of it themselves. But enough of their rank hypocracy.
The Tory world view is not one of landowners/serfs but of the means to progress and be socially mobile (or at least it should be). Start out life on a council estate, do well, send your kids to Eton? This is the world the centre-right would want for you. The left sees people as their client state. They believe that only the “elect” of thier poltiical class should move beyond the status they deem you ought to have and they demand your gratitude for keeping you in your place. They want to trade on ther politics of envy - see him over there who built up a business, he did it on the backs of the “workers” so tax it off him and re-distribute it (never mind the 2 or 3 times he may have failed, gone bankrupt, re-started before succeeding, took that risk, worked 7 days a week and when he took on employees he was supportive and generous). Go to work, earn a decent salary, well we’ll tax it off you so you can’t save, you can’t retire comfortably, you can’t own anything you can only rely on the state to dictate what it thinks you should have. This is how the left thinks. The politics of envy, blame and hate. I can sort of admire Angela Rayner for growing up in difficult circumstances, but having done OK for herself, including lying on a number of tax forms to evade paying CGT to line her own pockets (but it’s OK, she the right type of politician to be on the take) but where that sops is her hatred of anyone that grew up slightly better off than her and that motivation which drives her resentment. She’s the architypal “race to the bottom” socialist. |
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By *irldnCouple 22 weeks ago
Brighton |
"I don’t think the Tories, through the procurement of PPE, were sleazy or out for themselves.
What are you smoking Walt?
It was theft right in front of our eyes excuses by the pandemic. Truly hope a proper investigation is undertaken rather than a whitewash.
I don’t doubt it, but the issue is theft by whom? Tory ministers? No. Baroness Mone? Possibly but she was elevated for being a donor not necessarily a holder of political office.
Reform of the HoL as a consequence? Most definately.
Labout imminune from the possibility? Hmmmm Bernie Ecclestone and the exepction of F1 from the then tobacco advertising bans….. "
The whole PPE situation was far shadier than is currently public. Mone deserves what happens to her but she is a scapegoat to help distract from all the other piggies with their noses in the trough (Tory piggies because only referral by a Tory Minister, MP, or Peer got you into the VIP lane - the words “downstream kick backs” spring to mind). |
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"The Tories got in in 2019 because of the blue wall. People in those areas felt that they had been ignored by Labour for years and taken for granted. If the Tories had actually delivered on fulfilling some of their promises and aspirations for”the North” they would have cemented a generational power base. They did the complete opposite. They went inwards. They bickered and argued over things no one cared about."
Do you mean the red wall turned blue to see brexit done? |
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"The Tories got in in 2019 because of the blue wall. People in those areas felt that they had been ignored by Labour for years and taken for granted. If the Tories had actually delivered on fulfilling some of their promises and aspirations for”the North” they would have cemented a generational power base. They did the complete opposite. They went inwards. They bickered and argued over things no one cared about.
Do you mean the red wall turned blue to see brexit done?"
yes and now gone back to red lol |
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"The Tories got in in 2019 because of the blue wall. People in those areas felt that they had been ignored by Labour for years and taken for granted. If the Tories had actually delivered on fulfilling some of their promises and aspirations for”the North” they would have cemented a generational power base. They did the complete opposite. They went inwards. They bickered and argued over things no one cared about.
The interesting thing is when you hear the old tropes about “Tory entitlement” like we are still living in the 19th C especially when many of the Labour politicians so keen to pull up the ladder on private education were beneficiaries of it themselves. But enough of their rank hypocracy.
The Tory world view is not one of landowners/serfs but of the means to progress and be socially mobile (or at least it should be). Start out life on a council estate, do well, send your kids to Eton? This is the world the centre-right would want for you. The left sees people as their client state. They believe that only the “elect” of thier poltiical class should move beyond the status they deem you ought to have and they demand your gratitude for keeping you in your place. They want to trade on ther politics of envy - see him over there who built up a business, he did it on the backs of the “workers” so tax it off him and re-distribute it (never mind the 2 or 3 times he may have failed, gone bankrupt, re-started before succeeding, took that risk, worked 7 days a week and when he took on employees he was supportive and generous). Go to work, earn a decent salary, well we’ll tax it off you so you can’t save, you can’t retire comfortably, you can’t own anything you can only rely on the state to dictate what it thinks you should have. This is how the left thinks. The politics of envy, blame and hate. I can sort of admire Angela Rayner for growing up in difficult circumstances, but having done OK for herself, including lying on a number of tax forms to evade paying CGT to line her own pockets (but it’s OK, she the right type of politician to be on the take) but where that sops is her hatred of anyone that grew up slightly better off than her and that motivation which drives her resentment. She’s the architypal “race to the bottom” socialist. "
Cba, no words |
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"The Tories got in in 2019 because of the blue wall. People in those areas felt that they had been ignored by Labour for years and taken for granted. If the Tories had actually delivered on fulfilling some of their promises and aspirations for”the North” they would have cemented a generational power base. They did the complete opposite. They went inwards. They bickered and argued over things no one cared about.
Do you mean the red wall turned blue to see brexit done?yes and now gone back to red lol"
Which one would expect. |
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"The Tories got in in 2019 because of the blue wall. People in those areas felt that they had been ignored by Labour for years and taken for granted. If the Tories had actually delivered on fulfilling some of their promises and aspirations for”the North” they would have cemented a generational power base. They did the complete opposite. They went inwards. They bickered and argued over things no one cared about.
The interesting thing is when you hear the old tropes about “Tory entitlement” like we are still living in the 19th C especially when many of the Labour politicians so keen to pull up the ladder on private education were beneficiaries of it themselves. But enough of their rank hypocracy.
The Tory world view is not one of landowners/serfs but of the means to progress and be socially mobile (or at least it should be). Start out life on a council estate, do well, send your kids to Eton? This is the world the centre-right would want for you. The left sees people as their client state. They believe that only the “elect” of thier poltiical class should move beyond the status they deem you ought to have and they demand your gratitude for keeping you in your place. They want to trade on ther politics of envy - see him over there who built up a business, he did it on the backs of the “workers” so tax it off him and re-distribute it (never mind the 2 or 3 times he may have failed, gone bankrupt, re-started before succeeding, took that risk, worked 7 days a week and when he took on employees he was supportive and generous). Go to work, earn a decent salary, well we’ll tax it off you so you can’t save, you can’t retire comfortably, you can’t own anything you can only rely on the state to dictate what it thinks you should have. This is how the left thinks. The politics of envy, blame and hate. I can sort of admire Angela Rayner for growing up in difficult circumstances, but having done OK for herself, including lying on a number of tax forms to evade paying CGT to line her own pockets (but it’s OK, she the right type of politician to be on the take) but where that sops is her hatred of anyone that grew up slightly better off than her and that motivation which drives her resentment. She’s the architypal “race to the bottom” socialist.
Cba, no words"
I find these views interesting. It's easy to write them off as cartoonish. But there are an element of the electorate that genuinely believes this kind of thing. |
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"The Tories got in in 2019 because of the blue wall. People in those areas felt that they had been ignored by Labour for years and taken for granted. If the Tories had actually delivered on fulfilling some of their promises and aspirations for”the North” they would have cemented a generational power base. They did the complete opposite. They went inwards. They bickered and argued over things no one cared about.
The interesting thing is when you hear the old tropes about “Tory entitlement” like we are still living in the 19th C especially when many of the Labour politicians so keen to pull up the ladder on private education were beneficiaries of it themselves. But enough of their rank hypocracy.
The Tory world view is not one of landowners/serfs but of the means to progress and be socially mobile (or at least it should be). Start out life on a council estate, do well, send your kids to Eton? This is the world the centre-right would want for you. The left sees people as their client state. They believe that only the “elect” of thier poltiical class should move beyond the status they deem you ought to have and they demand your gratitude for keeping you in your place. They want to trade on ther politics of envy - see him over there who built up a business, he did it on the backs of the “workers” so tax it off him and re-distribute it (never mind the 2 or 3 times he may have failed, gone bankrupt, re-started before succeeding, took that risk, worked 7 days a week and when he took on employees he was supportive and generous). Go to work, earn a decent salary, well we’ll tax it off you so you can’t save, you can’t retire comfortably, you can’t own anything you can only rely on the state to dictate what it thinks you should have. This is how the left thinks. The politics of envy, blame and hate. I can sort of admire Angela Rayner for growing up in difficult circumstances, but having done OK for herself, including lying on a number of tax forms to evade paying CGT to line her own pockets (but it’s OK, she the right type of politician to be on the take) but where that sops is her hatred of anyone that grew up slightly better off than her and that motivation which drives her resentment. She’s the architypal “race to the bottom” socialist.
Cba, no words
I find these views interesting. It's easy to write them off as cartoonish. But there are an element of the electorate that genuinely believes this kind of thing."
Because it is entirely true. |
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"The Tories got in in 2019 because of the blue wall. People in those areas felt that they had been ignored by Labour for years and taken for granted. If the Tories had actually delivered on fulfilling some of their promises and aspirations for”the North” they would have cemented a generational power base. They did the complete opposite. They went inwards. They bickered and argued over things no one cared about.
The interesting thing is when you hear the old tropes about “Tory entitlement” like we are still living in the 19th C especially when many of the Labour politicians so keen to pull up the ladder on private education were beneficiaries of it themselves. But enough of their rank hypocracy.
The Tory world view is not one of landowners/serfs but of the means to progress and be socially mobile (or at least it should be). Start out life on a council estate, do well, send your kids to Eton? This is the world the centre-right would want for you. The left sees people as their client state. They believe that only the “elect” of thier poltiical class should move beyond the status they deem you ought to have and they demand your gratitude for keeping you in your place. They want to trade on ther politics of envy - see him over there who built up a business, he did it on the backs of the “workers” so tax it off him and re-distribute it (never mind the 2 or 3 times he may have failed, gone bankrupt, re-started before succeeding, took that risk, worked 7 days a week and when he took on employees he was supportive and generous). Go to work, earn a decent salary, well we’ll tax it off you so you can’t save, you can’t retire comfortably, you can’t own anything you can only rely on the state to dictate what it thinks you should have. This is how the left thinks. The politics of envy, blame and hate. I can sort of admire Angela Rayner for growing up in difficult circumstances, but having done OK for herself, including lying on a number of tax forms to evade paying CGT to line her own pockets (but it’s OK, she the right type of politician to be on the take) but where that sops is her hatred of anyone that grew up slightly better off than her and that motivation which drives her resentment. She’s the architypal “race to the bottom” socialist.
Cba, no words
I find these views interesting. It's easy to write them off as cartoonish. But there are an element of the electorate that genuinely believes this kind of thing."
Ok I have words  talking about rayner as self serving is as currygate to partygate NOTHING TO SEE. |
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"Party gate.
Lies.
Liz.
Boris.
Grenfel.
And so much more
Grenfel? As in restitution post fire?"
No the Tory’s started the fire because they wanted to get rid of a few more of the working class vermin. |
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By (user no longer on site) 22 weeks ago
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"The Tories got in in 2019 because of the blue wall. People in those areas felt that they had been ignored by Labour for years and taken for granted. If the Tories had actually delivered on fulfilling some of their promises and aspirations for”the North” they would have cemented a generational power base. They did the complete opposite. They went inwards. They bickered and argued over things no one cared about.
The interesting thing is when you hear the old tropes about “Tory entitlement” like we are still living in the 19th C especially when many of the Labour politicians so keen to pull up the ladder on private education were beneficiaries of it themselves. But enough of their rank hypocracy.
The Tory world view is not one of landowners/serfs but of the means to progress and be socially mobile (or at least it should be). Start out life on a council estate, do well, send your kids to Eton? This is the world the centre-right would want for you. The left sees people as their client state. They believe that only the “elect” of thier poltiical class should move beyond the status they deem you ought to have and they demand your gratitude for keeping you in your place. They want to trade on ther politics of envy - see him over there who built up a business, he did it on the backs of the “workers” so tax it off him and re-distribute it (never mind the 2 or 3 times he may have failed, gone bankrupt, re-started before succeeding, took that risk, worked 7 days a week and when he took on employees he was supportive and generous). Go to work, earn a decent salary, well we’ll tax it off you so you can’t save, you can’t retire comfortably, you can’t own anything you can only rely on the state to dictate what it thinks you should have. This is how the left thinks. The politics of envy, blame and hate. I can sort of admire Angela Rayner for growing up in difficult circumstances, but having done OK for herself, including lying on a number of tax forms to evade paying CGT to line her own pockets (but it’s OK, she the right type of politician to be on the take) but where that sops is her hatred of anyone that grew up slightly better off than her and that motivation which drives her resentment. She’s the architypal “race to the bottom” socialist.
Cba, no words
I find these views interesting. It's easy to write them off as cartoonish. But there are an element of the electorate that genuinely believes this kind of thing.
Because it is entirely true. "
do you now what labours policy on corporation tax or business asset disposal relief is?
(Ps did Rayner lie in tax forms or did she simply not do one given?) |
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"The Tories got in in 2019 because of the blue wall. People in those areas felt that they had been ignored by Labour for years and taken for granted. If the Tories had actually delivered on fulfilling some of their promises and aspirations for”the North” they would have cemented a generational power base. They did the complete opposite. They went inwards. They bickered and argued over things no one cared about.
The interesting thing is when you hear the old tropes about “Tory entitlement” like we are still living in the 19th C especially when many of the Labour politicians so keen to pull up the ladder on private education were beneficiaries of it themselves. But enough of their rank hypocracy.
The Tory world view is not one of landowners/serfs but of the means to progress and be socially mobile (or at least it should be). Start out life on a council estate, do well, send your kids to Eton? This is the world the centre-right would want for you. The left sees people as their client state. They believe that only the “elect” of thier poltiical class should move beyond the status they deem you ought to have and they demand your gratitude for keeping you in your place. They want to trade on ther politics of envy - see him over there who built up a business, he did it on the backs of the “workers” so tax it off him and re-distribute it (never mind the 2 or 3 times he may have failed, gone bankrupt, re-started before succeeding, took that risk, worked 7 days a week and when he took on employees he was supportive and generous). Go to work, earn a decent salary, well we’ll tax it off you so you can’t save, you can’t retire comfortably, you can’t own anything you can only rely on the state to dictate what it thinks you should have. This is how the left thinks. The politics of envy, blame and hate. I can sort of admire Angela Rayner for growing up in difficult circumstances, but having done OK for herself, including lying on a number of tax forms to evade paying CGT to line her own pockets (but it’s OK, she the right type of politician to be on the take) but where that sops is her hatred of anyone that grew up slightly better off than her and that motivation which drives her resentment. She’s the architypal “race to the bottom” socialist.
Cba, no words
I find these views interesting. It's easy to write them off as cartoonish. But there are an element of the electorate that genuinely believes this kind of thing.
Because it is entirely true. "
If you mean it's a mash up of Daily Express, Daily Mail, GBNews, distilled into a concentrated pure liquid form of utter rhubarb. Then yeah.
"You can't own anything", "this is how the left thinks". Being an especially fun example. |
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"Between 2019 (healthy majority) and 2024 (projected relative wipeout), what went wrong? Was it because Brexit was delivered, so the right moved on to reform? Infighting? Trussonomics? Partygate? Labour put up a viable candidate? All of the above? It cannot be as simple as "the last 14 years", rather something happened in the past five.
What was it? Opinions?"
Not fucked the country over for 14 years. You cannot separate the last 5 years from the previous 9, I’m afraid, austerity lead to Brexit, and a combination of the two meant we were in an awful position to deal with Covid. |
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By *oo hotCouple 22 weeks ago
North West |
"Between 2019 (healthy majority) and 2024 (projected relative wipeout), what went wrong? Was it because Brexit was delivered, so the right moved on to reform? Infighting? Trussonomics? Partygate? Labour put up a viable candidate? All of the above? It cannot be as simple as "the last 14 years", rather something happened in the past five.
What was it? Opinions?"
Since 2010 up to and including the 2019 election, the quality of Conservative MPs has declined to such a degree that after the 2019 election, some new MPs ended up serving in authoritative Government positions.
The collapse of the party was all but set in stone in 2019 when the only thing Johnson demanded was loyalty to Brexit, and this meant that experienced, elder statesmen were removed from the ballot. The subsequent election result meant that the parliamentary conservative party was made up of a very large pool of talentless people whose allegiance to the ideology of Brexit was the only attribute that they could offer. Lying and incompetence about Brexit became so normalised that lying and incompetence afflicted everything that the Conservative Party subsequently did.
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By *oo hotCouple 22 weeks ago
North West |
"The Tories got in in 2019 because of the blue wall. People in those areas felt that they had been ignored by Labour for years and taken for granted. If the Tories had actually delivered on fulfilling some of their promises and aspirations for”the North” they would have cemented a generational power base. They did the complete opposite. They went inwards. They bickered and argued over things no one cared about.
The interesting thing is when you hear the old tropes about “Tory entitlement” like we are still living in the 19th C especially when many of the Labour politicians so keen to pull up the ladder on private education were beneficiaries of it themselves. But enough of their rank hypocracy.
The Tory world view is not one of landowners/serfs but of the means to progress and be socially mobile (or at least it should be). Start out life on a council estate, do well, send your kids to Eton? This is the world the centre-right would want for you. The left sees people as their client state. They believe that only the “elect” of thier poltiical class should move beyond the status they deem you ought to have and they demand your gratitude for keeping you in your place. They want to trade on ther politics of envy - see him over there who built up a business, he did it on the backs of the “workers” so tax it off him and re-distribute it (never mind the 2 or 3 times he may have failed, gone bankrupt, re-started before succeeding, took that risk, worked 7 days a week and when he took on employees he was supportive and generous). Go to work, earn a decent salary, well we’ll tax it off you so you can’t save, you can’t retire comfortably, you can’t own anything you can only rely on the state to dictate what it thinks you should have. This is how the left thinks. The politics of envy, blame and hate. I can sort of admire Angela Rayner for growing up in difficult circumstances, but having done OK for herself, including lying on a number of tax forms to evade paying CGT to line her own pockets (but it’s OK, she the right type of politician to be on the take) but where that sops is her hatred of anyone that grew up slightly better off than her and that motivation which drives her resentment. She’s the architypal “race to the bottom” socialist. "
Wow... Imagine believing that. |
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By (user no longer on site) 21 weeks ago
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A lot of people, whether you agree with it or not, think immigration is far too fucking high. What they shouldn't have done, is triple it by dishing out Education visa's like candy. Literally hundreds of thousands extra if you look at the Migration Observatory website.
Figure 4:
https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/long-term-international-migration-flows-to-and-from-the-uk/
Then of course there was all the scandals. That MP who crashed how car then said he wanted to be trans? The dodgy offshore tax accounts, the wastage of Billions during Covid and Brexit to an extent. Of course people betting on the election date showed them up for the shit show that they ended up as. |
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What brought down John Major's government ?
1-People were sick and tired of the Tories. They had been in government since 1979 and everyone just wanted a change. To be honest, the fact that John Major won in 1992 is still regarded as something of a shock.
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2-It certainly didn’t help that the Tory party had been dogged by allegations of “sleaze”; allegations that it seemed unwilling or unable to get to the bottom of.
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3-The Labour party were led by a young charismatic character by the name of Tony Blair. At this stage the Labour faithful were still very much in love with him, and a lot of centrists and liberal Tory voters were happy to give him a crack because he seemed pretty moderate.
1-All parties run their course in the end. After 14 years, people look around and think to themselves, "Am I better off ? Are my children better off ? Is the country in a good state ?"
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2. Sleaze and corruption eventually catch up with every party. Critical mass has been reached.
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3. KS is the complete opposite of TB. He's dull and boring. That's what most folks want. Nothing bright or shiny. No fuss or glamour. Just normality. |
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By *ip2Man 21 weeks ago
Near Maidenhead |
Joined the euro.
Joined Schengen.
Used their MEPs properly.
Confronted misinformation about the EU in the press.
Made sure everyone had to register their address where they were living if they were staying for more than 3 months.
Properly used the 3 month rule in EU law that says,
- If you are staying less than 3 months in another EU country then all you need is your passport or ID card.
- If you are staying more than 3 months then you may have to register where you are living, usually at the the hall or police station. |
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"Between 2019 (healthy majority) and 2024 (projected relative wipeout), what went wrong? Was it because Brexit was delivered, so the right moved on to reform? Infighting? Trussonomics? Partygate? Labour put up a viable candidate? All of the above? It cannot be as simple as "the last 14 years", rather something happened in the past five.
What was it? Opinions?
Not fucked the country over for 14 years. You cannot separate the last 5 years from the previous 9, I’m afraid, austerity lead to Brexit, and a combination of the two meant we were in an awful position to deal with Covid."
Mass immigration lead to Brexit. |
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"Between 2019 (healthy majority) and 2024 (projected relative wipeout), what went wrong? Was it because Brexit was delivered, so the right moved on to reform? Infighting? Trussonomics? Partygate? Labour put up a viable candidate? All of the above? It cannot be as simple as "the last 14 years", rather something happened in the past five.
What was it? Opinions?
Not fucked the country over for 14 years. You cannot separate the last 5 years from the previous 9, I’m afraid, austerity lead to Brexit, and a combination of the two meant we were in an awful position to deal with Covid.
Mass immigration lead to Brexit."
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By *ip2Man 21 weeks ago
Near Maidenhead |
Immigration led to losing EU membership?
I'll start by acknowledging that some people did feel disadvantaged by EU freedom of movement.
For example, I heard from someone who said he had been a light goods lorry driver working long shifts. Then he decided to upgrade to an HGV licence, but found three problems:
1) Free training wasn't available;
2) Employers or agencies asked for a years' experience;
3) The job wasn't as well paid as he hoped.
He said that he thought it was because employers had plenty of central and eastern European drivers, whose HGV licences were automatically valid in the UK, thanks to EU mutual recognition of professional qualifications and EU freedom to provide services.
He overcame obstacle 1) at his own expense. He found an agency willing to give him a chance despite 2).
But EU membership has been overwhelmingly good for all of Europe including the UK.
Freedom of movement has been a good thing. Especially for the NHS. FOM is a two-way thing that's given opportunities that today's young people have lost.
No customs barriers was a good thing. Euratom was a good thing. The UK missed out on the Euro currency. Yes the euro was a gamble at first. The UK missed out on the achievement of Schengen.
The UK's problem hasn't been too much Europe. It hasn't had enough Europe.
It's not the fault of all the other EU countries that the UK didn't put in place all the controls on EU freedom of movement that the UK could have done.
It's cheaper to run the country with the help of the European Commission and the EU agencies.
It couldn't have happened without years of unfair stories about the EU in the tabloid press. Europe House in London collected a catalogue of them.
It couldn't have happened without well-off people in the Home Counties saying things like "Just look after your own country" or "Because I don't like Napoleonic law".
(Which is ridiculous, EU law covers the variety of legal traditions in Europe including in the UK. There isn't a problem).
Then there was pro-immigration sentiment. Michael Gove and others went to British Asians in the UK and promised that they'd make it *easier* to move from India and Pakistan to the UK.
What about the misleading claims, like Turkey joining (it's not). Money for the NHS (there's less). Farmers will be better off (they're not). There'll be less bureaucracy (there's more).
What about the ads on Facebook with mysterious funding? Russian money? What was big-donating Aaron Banks doing meeting Russians?
Then there were people who voted "for a joke" or "to protest but didn't expect to win" or just to say they didn't like David Cameron.
Then there were the neglected parts of the UK like Stoke-on-Trent. If, for them, the question was, are you happy with the way there's so many empty buildings on S-on-T? Of course they'd say no we're not happy.
There's no way that anti-immigration sentiment on its own was enough to "win" the referendum, I think. |
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